The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - On the Ground in Makerfield ｜ Interview with Andrew Bridgen

00:00:00.000 Hi folks, I'm joined by former MP Andrew Bridgen. He was a conservative MP until he decided during

00:00:05.860 the COVID pandemic to do the right thing at the right time and of course they kicked him out for

00:00:10.440 it. And ever since then Andrew has been essentially a warrior for the, how to describe us, I guess the

00:00:17.460 nativist right, the sort of the truth-telling right, the right that's actually tired of compromise at

00:00:23.120 this point and actually wants to see some tangible gains. You've been basically at the front line of

00:00:27.940 every issue that's uh been something we've been championing um since then um and as i understand

00:00:34.500 it you've spent a few days up in makerfield canvassing for restore and rupert lowe i spent

00:00:39.560 a day up in makerfield on saturday um and i was very impressed the um you know for a new party

00:00:47.000 to hit the ground like that in such numbers and to be able to organize those numbers so it was

00:00:52.100 actually done productively so yeah i was out and had um out on the streets knocking on doors with

00:01:01.000 people who'd done it before and people who'd never done it before and it was very similar to um being

00:01:07.640 out i did three days in great yarmouth and really enjoyed that as well um i'm a bit of an old war

00:01:13.760 horse you see so it seems like the first waving of the flags and the and the whiff of grape shot

00:01:18.240 and i've got to be there no no i i totally understand uh i really do um so uh yeah okay

00:01:25.680 so tell us first about the campaign in great yarmouth um what what was that like for you when

00:01:30.600 you were there it was like the best of days um you know the optimism uh the enthusiasm

00:01:37.620 something that's been sadly missing in uk politics for a very long time and you know it's it's

00:01:44.840 Rupert's Backyard, obviously you've got to start there

00:01:48.000 because most of them do know about Rupert Lowe, their MP.

00:01:53.240 But again, it was getting over a lot of apathy

00:01:55.480 because, as we know, we moan about low turnouts

00:01:59.500 at general elections, but the turnouts at local elections

00:02:02.180 have been appalling.

00:02:03.820 Getting 30% was seen as good.

00:02:07.880 It's barely any sort of democratic ballot.

00:02:11.780 so despite the fact that you you know on paper you're probably talking to two-thirds of the

00:02:16.700 people you're talking to aren't going to bother to vote anyway um the campaign was amazing i mean

00:02:22.180 it's totally one-sided there was nobody else out there at all we wiped every other party off the

00:02:26.980 map uh i think they just kept away just for anyone who doesn't know what the numbers were

00:02:32.460 the average vote share for great yarmouth first which is ruper lowe's uh local party there was

00:02:38.960 46 percent which was ahead of every other party including reform and the conservatives and labor

00:02:45.740 and whoever else and if you'd halved the restore britain vote share they still would have won every

00:02:50.220 single award so it was an unbelievable victory well seeing that was what was hoped for and seeing

00:02:57.280 the number of volunteers that turned out that was what delivered i mean it was just proving the

00:03:02.640 method the method works it worked in great yarmouth to great effect um and there were some

00:03:08.260 good candidates um and i had a conversation a week last saturday well two weeks ago with with

00:03:17.120 rupert and i did say you know people are saying it's too soon for a by-election and some people

00:03:24.380 saying you know you're gonna do this or do that and i said you've just got to stand because you

00:03:31.120 are a party you're you're a player in the game now and you know those who fight and run away

00:03:37.100 only live to run away another day and if you don't compete in this by-election the same pressure will

00:03:42.700 come on at the next by-election and you never break through and in fact restoring offering is

00:03:48.540 so radically different to every other party you're not taking anybody else's votes we're just taking

00:03:53.840 policy to places other people don't want to go and even if we do take other people's votes you

00:03:58.560 don't own those votes you aren't entitled to them there's a weird sort of socialism of the electorate

00:04:05.000 that goes on in British politics.

00:04:06.920 You can't split the vote here.

00:04:08.620 As Jacob Rees-Mogg says,

00:04:09.880 oh, there's a Tory vote,

00:04:10.740 there's a reform vote.

00:04:11.540 It's like, no, no,

00:04:12.100 three years ago,

00:04:13.100 there wasn't a reform vote.

00:04:14.520 These things are all new

00:04:15.480 and there will,

00:04:16.640 and there is a restore vote

00:04:18.060 coming forward now.

00:04:19.040 It's sort of like,

00:04:20.040 you know,

00:04:20.600 in the Tory party at times,

00:04:23.980 you know,

00:04:24.120 they'd say that our voters

00:04:25.200 are voting for someone else.

00:04:27.900 But I mean,

00:04:28.220 I did point out to them

00:04:29.260 that the moment they've voted

00:04:30.180 for someone else,

00:04:30.840 they're somebody else's voters,

00:04:32.380 aren't they?

00:04:32.580 They're not your voters.

00:04:33.160 They're not our voters anymore.

00:04:34.520 You know,

00:04:34.600 And if they voted for them twice, I mean, you really can't call them

00:04:37.820 our voters anymore.

00:04:38.900 No.

00:04:39.560 It's time to go and re-canvas and find out who they are voting for.

00:04:42.820 And, yeah, I think the demographics of Makerfield are very suitable,

00:04:53.040 conducive to a good performance from Restore.

00:04:56.520 It should be natural hunting ground. 0.70

00:04:58.620 the 97% white British, the 66% leave voters.

00:05:10.180 I mean, that should be a problem for people like Andy Burnham,

00:05:12.800 shouldn't it, and the Labour Party?

00:05:13.880 Well, I mean, weirdly, it was Labour that made returning to the EU

00:05:18.300 a politically actionable topic.

00:05:21.420 But not votable, apparently, by the people.

00:05:23.640 I mean, they've asked the people once, they said they wanted to leave

00:05:26.340 in in makerfield two-thirds of them said they wanted to leave so we can't ask them again we

00:05:32.000 just go back in yeah yeah but this is always the way with the european union and its allies and as

00:05:37.880 you've already pointed out i mean um 14 almost 49 percent of the electorate were not impressed

00:05:43.220 enough by any of the existing parties to be bothered to go to the polling station and cast

00:05:48.520 a vote so this is very fertile territory yeah i i thought that as well because i mean great yarmouth

00:05:54.520 actually has relatively similar demographics to make a field when you actually look at the uh

00:05:59.480 the actual makeup of who is actually there and you realize oh what what was the problem of great

00:06:04.900 well it's a place in britain that felt like it had been left behind by the modernization of the

00:06:09.600 country and the diversification of the country and the fact that as you said half of the electorate

00:06:16.520 just isn't even voting anymore they're just not bothering even at general elections they're just

00:06:20.740 not bothering and these are the people that rupert turned out en masse to win this overwhelming

00:06:25.840 victory the most encouraging thing about the great yarmouth local election results was the

00:06:30.440 turnout and clearly people who'd given up on politics had decided to come out and not even

00:06:36.980 just to vote for a general election or an mp they were voting for local elections and just this is

00:06:41.620 really good just for anyone who doesn't know as well um for so in in a general election you for

00:06:47.900 example the average turnout in the last general election was 59 percent which is lower than

00:06:52.260 normal normally it's between sort of 65 to 70 percent which is fine you know that's that gives

00:06:58.880 the the winning parties a mandate right um but when you've when you when you're ticking down

00:07:04.240 towards half of people not voting that costs a pall across the very nature of the democratic

00:07:08.540 system itself and then when you drill down to local elections as you said 30 is a good turnout

00:07:13.700 in a local election.

00:07:15.120 Now, in Great Yarmouth, the turnout was somewhere between 40% and 50%.

00:07:19.760 That's amazing for a local election.

00:07:21.940 Almost unheard of.

00:07:22.980 I don't think I've ever...

00:07:23.960 Rupert's party effectively got more votes at the local elections

00:07:28.160 than Rupert got at the general election, and he won.

00:07:31.460 It's just unthinkable.

00:07:32.680 It's just an unthinkable thing.

00:07:33.980 The turnout is really important.

00:07:35.280 I led the Leave campaign for the East Midlands a decade ago.

00:07:40.220 I know, it's been a while, hasn't it?

00:07:41.120 That's unbelievable.

00:07:43.700 And that was all about getting out the people

00:07:47.340 who don't normally vote but would vote on that issue

00:07:50.220 for a fundamental change, people who wouldn't come out

00:07:54.360 for the status quo would come out for something different.

00:07:57.440 And I knew we'd won with four.

00:07:59.300 I saw the results.

00:08:00.780 Do you know what the turnout was in my own seat

00:08:02.300 of North West last year?

00:08:04.280 79.8%.

00:08:05.820 Wow.

00:08:07.460 And I knew they weren't coming out to stay in the EU.

00:08:10.660 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:11.280 but what what i loved about the brexit referendum i was a hardcore leave voter obviously um what i

00:08:16.460 what i loved about it it was it and i was just some no-name youtuber at the time uh it was

00:08:22.740 we have a chance to stick it in their eye at the moment this is this is our chance just stick it

00:08:28.540 to them we're not happy the way the country's going and we know what you want on this we know

00:08:33.840 that you're very committed no we have to remain in the eu okay well we're not committed to that

00:08:38.120 and we know you're going to howl if we make you do this.

00:08:41.580 And, of course, they didn't really let us leave.

00:08:44.000 No, of course not.

00:08:44.620 We had the bad bits of leave and none of the good bits. 1.00

00:08:47.680 The establishment never wanted the oiks to exert their preference. 0.99

00:08:54.200 And they punished us for it.

00:08:55.660 And they punished us for it.

00:08:56.540 And that's fine because we're being given another clear-cut choice again.

00:09:00.560 Put it right.

00:09:01.460 Exactly.

00:09:01.820 You know, even reform are being accepted into the fold.

00:09:06.380 You can see the positive media coverage they're getting.

00:09:08.760 So they're being accepted by the establishment.

00:09:10.680 Yeah, Nigel Farage isn't perfect.

00:09:12.280 They're not in love with him.

00:09:13.840 But they understand he's definitely better than the alternative,

00:09:16.280 which will be another Brexit-style vote,

00:09:18.200 which will be another poke in the eye from the electorate.

00:09:21.240 Absolutely.

00:09:22.840 I'm not convinced that the referendum we did,

00:09:27.540 I think people voted a lot more than,

00:09:31.100 I think the vote was a lot different to what we were actually shown.

00:09:33.880 we caught our own returning officer slipping a little bundle of a thousand leave votes onto the

00:09:39.540 remain table and of course when you catch them all it's a mistake it's just a one-off as well

00:09:44.720 i remember having a conversation with craig oliver who was um david cameron's political advisor

00:09:49.860 right i complained some weeks before the referendum because they just seconded another 200 senior

00:09:54.600 civil servants onto the remain campaign really who are supposed to be impartial and i took issue

00:10:01.000 with him privately and said look this is just not fair you're you're breaking all the election

00:10:04.920 rules you're in you're using civil servants paid for by the state to run the campaign and he said

00:10:11.520 be under no illusion andrew everyone who works for the government in any position across the country

00:10:17.240 they're all working for the remain campaign and that's 100 correct we found out afterwards i mean

00:10:23.000 that means your returning officers and your counters at the counts and we found out afterwards

00:10:27.140 that 95% of the civil service

00:10:29.100 had voted Remain.

00:10:31.020 95%.

00:10:31.540 Well, I mean, 1.00

00:10:32.660 letting some other country do,

00:10:34.580 I mean, it's like politicians voting Remain,

00:10:37.440 you know, abdicating responsibility

00:10:38.720 for setting the laws of our own country.

00:10:41.620 But I mean, you know,

00:10:42.760 that's an easy life in a way.

00:10:46.160 You just stamp in the laws from Brussels

00:10:48.060 and we talk about the bits that are left

00:10:49.980 and there are ever fewer bits left.

00:10:53.640 But...

00:10:53.920 Well, it's all of the responsibility.

00:10:54.720 If that's your answer,

00:10:56.180 I mean, really, 0.56

00:10:56.540 should just resign of course obviously saying is we think another country is better at running our

00:11:00.720 country than we are but it's it's all of the benefits and none of the responsibility they

00:11:04.580 get the position they get the chauffeurs they get the money they get the security and you can blame

00:11:08.820 the eu exactly and then you you just pass up the problems up the chain and say what can we do about

00:11:13.780 it you know and so this this this is the the reason this is important as well folks this is

00:11:18.960 the underlying tension that has been present in britain for as long as i can remember really

00:11:24.620 a lack of proper accountability in the political class and this i don't want to say condescension

00:11:31.460 because i don't think it's a strong enough word but i don't say hatred because i don't want people

00:11:37.260 think i'm being too strong but there's there's a disdain uh an arm's length sort of like we we

00:11:43.000 literally just don't care about your opinion we have calculated what we think right and wrong are

00:11:47.220 and you're on the wrong side of it so we don't even need to discuss these things with you and

00:11:50.740 And that's why I think people are coming out so strongly for Rupert Lowe,

00:11:54.540 because his attitude is the complete opposite.

00:11:57.800 Rupert Lowe's trust is in the British public and not the systems,

00:12:01.780 the structures of government, the institutions.

00:12:04.140 And he makes this very clear every time he talks about them.

00:12:06.340 He hates them.

00:12:07.100 Well, if you look at, actually look at the way we vote.

00:12:09.740 It's called polling day, isn't it?

00:12:11.200 What's a poll?

00:12:11.760 That's an opinion, isn't it?

00:12:12.820 Yeah, it is, yeah.

00:12:13.260 It's not a decision.

00:12:14.620 It's an opinion.

00:12:15.900 Opinion of the people.

00:12:17.040 You don't have to take people's opinions into account, do you?

00:12:19.820 there are any polls there's only an opinion yet we we don't sign our signature on our ballot paper 0.97

00:12:25.660 we put the cross the mark of an idiot and we put it in a box and anything on a legal document that's 0.96

00:12:30.980 in a box is discounted that's the way it works see the the the benefit that we do have though 0.97

00:12:37.820 is we still have the power of selection yeah and this is one thing that a lot of people are very

00:12:43.420 cynical about democracy but at the end of the day it must still have an influence otherwise they

00:12:48.700 wouldn't be uh so angry about restore running in these constituencies where they thought they had

00:12:55.680 it sewn up so there must still be something to it um so as we saw in great yarmouth actually

00:13:01.580 they've got the narrative sorted for the next general election already just just as starma

00:13:05.520 years before the 24 election all the papers were saying it's going to be a labor landslide

00:13:10.220 well with 32% or 30% of the vote on a 60% turnout yeah um so and Nigel wants that next mantle that

00:13:22.140 you know we've tried the Tories they betrayed us Labour did it in record uh time now we're

00:13:28.160 going to trust Uncle Nigel and he's already in the club and it's but the I think I think the

00:13:34.880 the ground is shifting under his feet in a way that makes them very uncomfortable very nervous

00:13:39.740 I mean, the past couple of days have just been a flat-out meltdown

00:13:42.720 over the poll that came out in Great Yarmouth that showed them in second.

00:13:46.080 So I can understand why they're bothered about this.

00:13:49.360 Like, this is actually indication that, in fact, they're not going to win.

00:13:53.880 And that means, well, what's the argument?

00:13:56.680 Well, if they're not part of the solution, they must be part of the problem.

00:13:59.560 They mustn't.

00:13:59.800 Well, yeah.

00:14:00.560 And notice how they're not trying to proselytize, right?

00:14:03.580 Notice how they're not trying to make a positive argument

00:14:05.220 to the people that they think are splitting the vote.

00:14:07.880 they're saying no no you're bad people and hell will come if you don't just give us what we want

00:14:12.440 it's like persuade me persuade me as to why persuade me as to why i should vote for you and

00:14:17.280 it's like well okay we can't really do that because we're far to the left of what you're

00:14:21.000 actually voting for and also the question of character when it comes up well a lot of people

00:14:26.820 think nigel fryer's a man of bad character very few people think rupert lowe is a man of bad

00:14:31.520 character and so he's standing on the correct issue he's got a record of actually doing what

00:14:35.800 says he's going to do and he seems like a decent chap what's the argument you could possibly make

00:14:41.360 to me on those that is true i've known nigel for many many years yeah and we've had our disagreements

00:14:47.400 i mean you know i told nigel three years ago about the european defense and securities union both

00:14:54.180 the conservatives and labor wanted to sign us up to which you know given them eu effectively

00:14:59.160 full control of our defense policy procurement our army navy air force cch gchq mi6 mi5 and our

00:15:08.740 nuclear and our local police force that's the that's the european defense and security union

00:15:12.460 which start which starmer signed us up to in august 24 as soon as he got in yeah i told nigel

00:15:19.420 about that years before and he said the eu's we've left andrew we don't talk about the eu anymore

00:15:26.060 that's done and he said the problem with you andrew is said you're always looking for a fight

00:15:30.300 i said no that's not correct nigel but if there's a fight got to be had i don't run away from it 0.64

00:15:35.600 and that's why i'm in restore britain you think you think the politicians of this country yes

00:15:41.080 yes you're looking for a fight yes i am because there's something because it's important yeah

00:15:45.020 because it's important because we've got to like that's such a weird uh indictment it's like no

00:15:51.040 no you're always looking for trouble so yes i am that's that's why i'm here but it's the only thing

00:15:55.400 i get for free well exactly yeah yeah it's the only thing i'm guaranteed out of like guaranteed

00:16:00.260 out of life for free is trouble yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh anyway so like like we're saying the

00:16:05.340 the enthusiasm in make in in great yarmouth was off the charts and it really paid dividends right

00:16:11.360 restore being on the ballot and offering a substantive and um you know britain first

00:16:17.020 agenda was really really popular with a credible mp who has a history of doing what he says he's

00:16:22.000 going to do overwhelming win this election in makefield was triggered by the labor party for

00:16:28.300 very cynical reasons this is andy burnham's route back into parliament to save the labor party from

00:16:33.420 keir starmer's um total apathy to their own polling uh to their own position in the public

00:16:40.280 imagination uh andy burnham for anyone doesn't know his entire career has been in the labor

00:16:45.860 He blocked Burnham before, didn't he?

00:16:47.340 He did.

00:16:47.720 The Labour NEC blocked Burnham before, but now...

00:16:51.140 But I think what happened is that it's clear that Labour's polling is so dire

00:16:55.580 that even...

00:16:57.140 And the NEC isn't a monolithic block.

00:16:59.000 So I saw an interview with one lady who was on the NEC

00:17:01.080 in the Times podcast, I think it was,

00:17:03.800 where she was arguing,

00:17:04.740 no, no, essentially I'm part of the Burnham faction on the NEC,

00:17:07.660 and we managed to persuade them to let us give Andy a crack at it

00:17:11.340 because things are bad.

00:17:13.140 And I said, okay, fair enough.

00:17:14.160 You know, which, you know, even the most diehard Keir Starmer loyalist has to be looking at the situation on the ground for Labour and be like, can we go on like this?

00:17:23.800 Two years into a government.

00:17:25.300 Yeah, two years in.

00:17:26.040 Not even two years in.

00:17:27.160 Well, yeah, but it was Southport that really did it.

00:17:30.220 And you can see from Southport onward, their polling just went straight down.

00:17:33.280 But the point is, they're doing this for entirely cynical reasons, which isn't exactly a great argument.

00:17:38.500 Help us save the Labour Party.

00:17:39.840 Well, we feel left behind in Makerfield.

00:17:42.600 why would we want to save your party and actually there are lots of other people around who are

00:17:47.580 competing for our vote so this whole thing is a kind of microcosm of what could be happening in

00:17:53.960 the next general election which is what everyone is making such a big deal out of it um there are

00:17:58.280 really only three proper contenders obviously labor under burnham uh reform under farage and

00:18:02.640 of course restore under um rupert um so when you got there what was the atmosphere like with the

00:18:10.720 restore camp it's amazing i mean i've been to a lot of by-elections during my political career

00:18:16.880 and i've never seen that number of motivated activists and and that was only the morning

00:18:22.900 shift yeah so i i got there at 10 o'clock for the 10 30 start and that's the morning shift until

00:18:31.600 two and 2 30 the next a lot of activists come in to take over in the afternoon amazing so the

00:18:39.620 was it similar to great yarmouth yes yeah excellent uh and so and in a way i mean i

00:18:46.660 imagine for more of the population uh maker feels easier to get to than great yarmouth

00:18:51.360 yeah well i tell you what that was the reason i didn't go yarmouth isn't really on the way to

00:18:55.140 anywhere is it no it's unless you're going to great yarmouth it's yeah exactly it's literally

00:18:59.340 the place you're going to it's bloody out of the way uh and was a real pain to get to um but when

00:19:05.180 you live in the middle of the midlands like i do you can get everywhere yeah exactly i can even get

00:19:08.960 to swindon oh really well that's good to know um no no but so right so the great great atmosphere

00:19:14.380 great energy um when you got out and were canvassing what was the response like on the

00:19:19.380 doorstep okay so it was positive people people have a negative perception that people won't

00:19:29.540 like them knocking on their doors nobody whatsoever is hostile really yeah nobody's nobody is hostile

00:19:37.840 I think it so rarely happens nowadays that anyone knocks on your door

00:19:42.780 and asks you for your vote.

00:19:44.860 I mean, Nigel Farage isn't asking people for their vote.

00:19:47.480 He's telling them they've got to vote for it.

00:19:49.520 His activists weren't out there.

00:19:51.140 We are a new party, a new organisation with new ideas

00:19:54.520 and challenging the established parties.

00:19:57.840 And some people hadn't heard of Rupert Lowe.

00:20:00.980 They all took the leaflets.

00:20:01.960 um and as this campaign builds over the next three weeks i mean we already by now every door

00:20:10.420 in the constituency will have will have been knocked not everyone's in probably only one in

00:20:15.960 four or five people are in on a on a saturday afternoon um we are going to get round more and

00:20:22.540 more and fill all those gaps in until we've got a pledge base and you know the the mathematics and

00:20:28.980 the mechanisms of politics are not difficult you canvas for the election period and then on the

00:20:36.720 last day you refine down to all the people who were positive so they were thinking or were going

00:20:42.180 to vote for you and you just remind those on polling day to get your vote out that's it and

00:20:47.220 then you win and as long as i've been involved in politics which is over 20 years um that's that's

00:20:56.480 how you win it worked it worked only and it's still working because it worked the other day in

00:21:00.780 uh in in great yarmouth system works sorry about the cough it's all right i'm down with it i've got

00:21:06.800 i've got one too yeah but you're right it's it's it's actually not terribly complex and it is a

00:21:12.180 but it can't because politicians do it and they're not very bright are they i sussed that out when i

00:21:15.960 was in business before i went into politics that yeah we don't need to any lessons from them because

00:21:20.200 they're not that bright so if they can do it we can do just look at the labor front bench i mean

00:21:24.400 jesus christ yeah um yeah so the the the methods are tried and tested and reform have restore have

00:21:31.000 a massive activist base i mean that's what you need i mean that that is the impact that gets

00:21:36.320 you around those doorsteps in i mean a general election always suits the incumbent because they

00:21:42.820 will have the canvas return so labor will have canvassed over the years make a field many many

00:21:47.700 times they've got a computer base i'm afraid given the fall in popularity they're left their

00:21:53.920 data's a lot of the historic data is worthless because as we know the support for their party

00:21:59.320 that's great for parties that are moving up yeah yeah yeah that's a great database and great

00:22:06.160 comfort it's terrible and a collapse well yeah and now i think it's so bad that a lot of labor

00:22:12.140 activists won't want to go on the doorstep and hear the bad news although there are still

00:22:17.300 die-hard Labour voters I found some when I was out canvassing um yeah and then even they

00:22:25.020 apologized to me and said yeah I wish you good luck but I am Labour despite everything and

00:22:31.860 they're almost apologizing for the state of the country well I mean to be honest with you so they

00:22:36.680 are tribal Labour voters but that that tribe's being thinned out a bit and it doesn't that just

00:22:41.940 speak to a huge amount of demoralization on the part of the ruling party and the status quo that

00:22:49.600 Labour have engineered like the the system is failing and even their own voters know it

00:22:54.900 and they're looking at Starmer and I mean Starmer is massively unpopular on the doorstep we are told

00:22:59.440 over and over and I believe it as well and also the problem with the by-election I mean by-elections

00:23:06.220 are traditionally much lower turnouts than general elections and I always find that frustrating

00:23:11.460 because, obviously, you'll know that the election spending

00:23:13.860 is much higher for a by-election than a general election

00:23:16.860 in a particular constituency.

00:23:18.840 I mean, I think you're looking at over £100,000 of campaign resources

00:23:22.920 can be expended in that six weeks.

00:23:25.060 And you've got all the parties who are serious about winning doing that.

00:23:28.260 So, I mean, they get far more leaflets than you'd ever get

00:23:31.380 during a general election, and then you get a lower turnout.

00:23:34.100 The turnout with Restore in the mix, I think, is going to be fascinating.

00:23:38.680 I think it's not only can Restore be very good for the country,

00:23:41.460 and it's needed, I think we could be very good for democracy as well.

00:23:45.300 Well, this has been Rupert's special ability,

00:23:48.420 is to put something on the ballot that is...

00:23:51.160 To reach the parts that other parties cannot reach.

00:23:53.480 Yeah, to actually...

00:23:54.760 And that could be a marketing slogan, you know.

00:23:56.820 It could. It could.

00:23:59.520 But I think that's genuinely important, though,

00:24:01.920 because this is the fear,

00:24:04.940 is that because 50% of them just didn't vote in the last general election,

00:24:08.680 Rupert could summon up an actual legion of people who...

00:24:12.460 I think we're the only party who can appeal

00:24:14.380 to 100% of the available electorate.

00:24:17.180 Agreed.

00:24:17.680 And I think they know that too.

00:24:19.080 Yes.

00:24:19.660 And I think that they're very afraid of that,

00:24:21.800 which is one of the things...

00:24:22.880 I mean, there are lots of videos coming out

00:24:24.540 from just canvases of all stripes.

00:24:26.520 Like I saw a Labour Party canvaser the other day

00:24:29.980 saying, well, I was going around

00:24:31.360 and I bumped into a couple of reform guys,

00:24:33.860 but there were a lot of restore guys,

00:24:35.360 and I hope they split the vote.

00:24:36.980 So, well, maybe they will.

00:24:38.000 you know but the point is like the the point is that they they are they are seeing restore voters

00:24:45.680 on the door where they're knocking and this whoever they're knocking for says oh no i'm

00:24:49.540 voting for a store so don't worry it's like okay well that's that's gotta that's gotta be a real

00:24:53.000 concern and restore's own internal canvassing data shows that they've got 24 percent who are

00:24:58.540 like yeah no i'm definitely what does it show to the political establishment that a party that's

00:25:02.620 only been organized and legally formed three months ago could possibly be a contender at a

00:25:10.580 by-election in a cast-iron Labour seat which the incumbent MP has given up to allow another

00:25:17.280 Labour grandee to get back into Parliament to challenge for Prime Minister. Yeah I mean there's

00:25:23.620 something tectonic plates are shifting under the political establishment. Certainly there's one

00:25:28.100 think for sure they they won't be able to ignore restore britain anymore we are the dominant news

00:25:33.640 cycle at the moment i mean elon musk is out there promoting us nigel farage is attacking us a few

00:25:39.500 people have heard of elon musk a couple even if they haven't heard of rupert lowe but you'll

00:25:43.520 notice that what restore has done here is kind of muscle into the conversation where everyone now

00:25:47.960 has to talk about restore okay you might complain that they're splitting the vote but now we're the

00:25:52.840 focus of conversation it'd be but actually if you think about it be a pretty boring uh um by-election

00:25:58.320 if if restore wasn't there we we're making all the political headway and all the headlines exactly

00:26:03.160 and the the energy is off the charts like i saw the pictures of here's the labor activists here

00:26:07.220 the reform activists and then the zoomed out picture of all the restore activists like right

00:26:10.920 okay you you can't ignore that kind of energy you know you can't ignore it and that's why we're

00:26:16.420 coming under such ferocious attack at the moment actually i think um i think there is a genuine

00:26:21.380 in fear that the message we're the lesser of all of the available evils is not brilliant for reform

00:26:28.080 actually and the poll that they're promoting is we're losing to Andy Burnham please vote for us

00:26:33.360 because we're not as bad as Andy Burnham it's like well yeah okay Andy Burnham's not great but

00:26:37.420 is he worse than Keir Starmer why would I want to vote for it's essentially like leftovers that's

00:26:44.640 what I'm being asked do you want to have leftovers dinner do I have a steak it's like no no I'm

00:26:47.740 i'm tired of voting for the lesser of well the reason that the turnout is normally less at a

00:26:52.720 by-election is people know it's not going to change the government yeah yeah i'm going to

00:26:56.480 change the government it's not it's not it's not um trivial and we'll we will see whose voters are

00:27:03.140 most uh enthused to come out won't we we will and i i i don't like all of the signs like from

00:27:10.580 people like yourself and like we've got lots of activists who went to great yarmouth and are now

00:27:15.440 in makefield messaging us all the time saying feels just like great yarmouth feels just like

00:27:20.580 it you know the energy is high low really great response from people on the on the street i mean

00:27:25.380 it's a it's a more difficult hill to climb obviously um but if the energy is there

00:27:30.980 who knows yeah there aren't a lot of hills in great yarmouth on the coast yeah that's true yeah

00:27:36.560 but um but if the energy is there it's one of those things where you can you can feel them

00:27:42.520 not wanting to admit that there is a significant chance that restore not only throws spanner in

00:27:48.580 the works but actually win this because that like like you were saying they're basing this on old

00:27:53.960 information of these people don't vote these people vote labor these people it is almost

00:27:58.500 unbelievable that you could have the prospect of possibly a party that was only formed three

00:28:03.240 months ago winning a by-election yeah but this this is a this is a thing that i think they don't

00:28:08.660 I think that's how desperate the country is

00:28:10.180 and how desperate the people are.

00:28:12.360 Exactly.

00:28:13.680 There's no resisting an idea whose time has come.

00:28:16.520 And that's the problem.

00:28:17.420 And that's what they're doing.

00:28:18.340 They're trying to hold back the tide like King Canute.

00:28:21.120 Although that's a bit of a misattributed story,

00:28:23.140 so I shouldn't use it.

00:28:24.000 But the idea whose time has come is,

00:28:25.800 no, no, we just need to vote for something that's not them.

00:28:28.020 And Nigel Farage, taking all of these failed conservative politicians

00:28:31.140 who were in government,

00:28:32.240 someone could say, oh, you were a conservative politician.

00:28:34.860 I was like, yeah, and you got kicked out.

00:28:36.860 I don't think they can ever call me part of the political establishment,

00:28:39.860 can they?

00:28:41.000 I mean, not at least from your record, no.

00:28:44.780 But I didn't want people turning the poorest constituency in Leicestershire

00:28:49.140 into the richest in 12 years.

00:28:50.820 Where's that going to get the country?

00:28:53.040 Where's that going to get the rest of the politicians who didn't?

00:28:56.200 I suppose it depends what your interests are, isn't it?

00:28:59.180 But the point is, you weren't brought in by Nigel Farage.

00:29:04.340 In fact, you were warned about making the stir that you caused

00:29:08.560 about these things by Nigel Farage,

00:29:10.900 and I think you've been vindicated on these things.

00:29:13.360 But look at who's taken instead, Nadim Zahawi, Nadine Doris,

00:29:17.660 like Robert Jemmerich, the immigration minister 1.00

00:29:19.360 who oversaw the Boris wave, and sorry, and the Afghans,

00:29:23.240 Swella Braveman, the Home Secretary during the Boris wave. 0.93

00:29:25.180 Like, why would you take these people in and then try to...

00:29:29.160 Because he's been told to.

00:29:30.560 And then, well, exactly.

00:29:31.680 You can't portray yourself as some kind of renegade outsider party

00:29:36.220 if you've got the former government in your ranks.

00:29:40.020 It just doesn't work.

00:29:40.920 Who did most of the things that the electorate object to.

00:29:44.460 Yes, who actually caused the real substantive damage

00:29:47.620 that we're living with right now.

00:29:49.740 And it's, I mean, Jemric in particular,

00:29:52.360 it's such a strange thing.

00:29:54.140 He's had his road to Damascus conversion in the last year or so,

00:29:58.320 but only in the beginning of 2025,

00:29:59.840 he was still writing articles about how we need to accept the afters.

00:30:02.600 Not that he was called in the parliamentary party?

00:30:04.560 No, go on.

00:30:05.660 Robert Generic.

00:30:07.120 Well, that's nominative determinism wins again.

00:30:10.120 Because he is, I met him once, and he seemed nice enough,

00:30:13.280 but he was very boring.

00:30:14.640 Well, I remember going to his by-election to help him get in in Newark.

00:30:17.820 Oh, yeah? And how did that go?

00:30:19.800 Well, I mean, he won.

00:30:20.920 Well, it was a super safe conservative scene.

00:30:24.680 How many activists did he have?

00:30:26.000 not many compared to uh to rupert yes yeah interesting um so yeah the the the angles of

00:30:34.760 attack are quite desperate i feel at this point then and they don't know how to attack us as you

00:30:40.000 say it's having the streisland effect isn't it yes you know we're all thinking you know when they

00:30:44.540 complain uh me thinks he doth protest too much and and it's just amplifying the message it's going

00:30:51.300 around social media and when you've got an ally across the pond like elon musk i mean those are

00:30:57.280 big guns aren't they and not only that when when you when you feel like it's very interesting how

00:31:01.840 on the so the the salvation poll at the time was published for anyone who doesn't know um they had

00:31:07.160 369 likely voters so they ignored the unlikely voters because the the actual poll was of something

00:31:13.340 like 507 people or something like that it's like okay but why are you ignoring the unlikely voters

00:31:18.140 in this circumstance exactly well i think i think there's more chance i think there may be some shy

00:31:23.620 restore voters out there and i think and of course as with this is why i knew we were going to win

00:31:30.220 the eu referendum and the polls were wrong i was campaigning to get those people that haven't

00:31:36.600 voted for years to vote on an issue and i think we're in the same mindset now for the public

00:31:42.400 yeah exactly the same same tactics um you know you could be i ring up as the pollster first of all

00:31:50.440 you gov poll you've got to be on the you gov panel you've got to be engaged in politics so

00:31:54.320 all the non-voters they're not engaged in politics and on the you gov panel they're invisible and

00:31:58.980 when comrades ring up and you say yes i'm voting for restore in maca field make a field and they'll

00:32:06.400 say well did you vote in the last generation no did you vote in the one before no and that's it

00:32:11.760 they'll put you down as zero chance of voting.

00:32:14.040 Yes.

00:32:14.440 Zero waiting.

00:32:15.900 And it's a matter of getting those people,

00:32:18.580 as we did with the referendum,

00:32:19.940 getting those people to the polls,

00:32:21.580 and then you have a big shock on polling day.

00:32:24.000 And this is exactly what happened in Great Yarmouth.

00:32:26.340 And the thing is, if we didn't have such a recent

00:32:28.840 and overwhelming example of, oh no,

00:32:32.740 people who didn't vote for actually can vote

00:32:34.940 if you give them a reason to vote.

00:32:36.720 Like, you can put out a poll of 369 likely voters,

00:32:40.460 but you're ignoring 140-odd unlikely voters who, given the reason...

00:32:46.260 Have a right to vote and could vote.

00:32:48.340 Exactly, and could come out and absolutely flood you.

00:32:52.120 And if anyone has got a reason not to vote,

00:32:54.220 it's probably your hardened Labour voters,

00:32:58.040 given the performance of their government over the last 18 months.

00:33:02.260 I mean, honestly, there's a part of me that genuinely feels bad

00:33:04.880 for those old Labour voting families

00:33:06.660 that have just been so thoroughly betrayed.

00:33:09.440 and most of them are actually socially conservative you know absolutely they're just not

00:33:13.280 wide-eyed thatcherites you know who want to privatize the entire country and make sure that

00:33:18.800 foreign businesses and governments can own our country which is actually very quite a very

00:33:23.340 sensible position when you think about it but anyway i don't want to get into the economics

00:33:27.320 of it but the point being that poll that reform are staking everything on is not something i

00:33:33.220 personally would stake everything on because i mean a it shows you in second place which isn't

00:33:36.840 great you know you indicate you're gonna lose but it's only it's a tiny sample 369 people that

00:33:43.280 you're actually measuring from and you're ignoring about a third of that uh potential uh sample

00:33:48.380 anyway which is where our strongest constituency comes from so all i'm saying is it's i i don't

00:33:55.960 know playful it's all the next poll will be fascinating yes and i and i think you're

00:34:00.440 absolutely right i think the polls will consistently underestimate restore support

00:34:06.060 and that's not always a bad thing no no it's going to be i i i'm i'm weirdly optimistic about

00:34:11.560 this and i'm very rarely optimistic about these things but in the in my defense i'm often wrong

00:34:16.460 you've been taking the hopium have you not no that's the right so i i didn't think that trump

00:34:21.720 was going to win in 2024 uh i i it's not that i didn't feel the direction of the energy it's just

00:34:28.100 i was like no no it's probably going to be that something happens or whatever and we won i didn't

00:34:34.180 I didn't think that great Yarmouth was going to be such an overwhelming

00:34:37.060 victory.

00:34:37.480 It's not that I didn't feel the energy.

00:34:39.460 I was just like,

00:34:40.400 okay,

00:34:40.760 manage your expectations here,

00:34:44.080 you know?

00:34:44.680 Um,

00:34:45.080 and I'm feeling the same draw of energy in the same direction for maker

00:34:48.880 field.

00:34:49.260 And I'm,

00:34:49.980 my rational mind is saying that manage your expectations,

00:34:52.360 but I've been wrong before managing my expectations.

00:34:56.380 It's nice to be pleasantly surprised.

00:34:57.900 It is.

00:34:58.580 That's really nice.

00:34:59.640 I was the same on Brexit.

00:35:00.700 I didn't think we were going to win Brexit.

00:35:02.000 it i was managing my expectations and i was wrong and so it's nice to be wrong in a positive

00:35:06.980 direction every single time but um but i i i just can't bring myself to get the hopes up of it

00:35:14.540 because just in case we don't but that i i i can't help but feel there's every reason to think that

00:35:19.860 we've got a real fighting chance here i can't help but feel it i mean there's there's no way

00:35:24.420 you can see so many and restore has absolutely nothing to lose out of this exactly it's the first

00:35:30.140 parliamentary by-election than the party's ever taken part in and it's completely normal for

00:35:35.980 parties to lose by-elections most parties lose by-elections it's totally normal well i mean

00:35:43.320 most most governments lose by-elections absolutely um so if this is a ultra ultra ultra safe labor

00:35:50.880 seat it's deeply worrying isn't it and as you were saying for a party that's three months old

00:35:56.240 to be the current center of the national media discussion about are they going to call are they

00:36:02.300 going to be a significant player in just a random by-election i mean that's pretty unheard of and

00:36:07.880 that shows how much ground has been gained so quickly for a store like they we like they didn't

00:36:14.320 talk about advance during the gorton and denton by-election and it's not i don't like the advance

00:36:18.620 guys i'm friends with a lot of them and that i know nick nick was a good guy great guy you know

00:36:23.400 He got 50,000 votes in the mayoral election and the last one that Andy Burnham won.

00:36:28.300 And that's not nothing at all.

00:36:30.140 It's just, I think there's always a sort of like, you know, a time and a place and a confluence of energies that means you're the right guy for the right time.

00:36:39.620 And I just think that Nick was the wrong, the right guy at the wrong time for Gordon and Denton.

00:36:44.460 And it was a, it was a real shame, but the, the, the winds feel like they're very much in our sails.

00:36:52.040 And the fact that we're here after such a short period of time

00:36:55.140 dominating the conversation, they must...

00:36:58.860 I mean, have you seen anything like this before?

00:37:01.400 Never seen anything like it.

00:37:02.640 But we've never been in such dire straits as the country finds itself now.

00:37:08.560 It is very much the last chance saloon of politics

00:37:13.720 at five minutes to closing time.

00:37:16.220 And it's decide what we're doing.

00:37:18.680 yeah and and i and i it's beholden i think on all of us to

00:37:24.080 create the peaceful revolution we're going to need because the alternative is going to be awful

00:37:31.580 yeah and and one thing i've noticed about uh restore members is that a lot of them are

00:37:38.580 normal people right who are just not political they're not people who like andy burnham is a

00:37:43.500 professional politician he knows the game inside now and he has been his entire adult life uh

00:37:48.540 i i speak to lots and lots of restore members and many of them are just mothers and fathers

00:37:54.020 small business owners or people who are working in whatever private field which is no i just have

00:37:58.960 to get involved now i just i didn't want to i've never wanted to be involved in the politics but

00:38:03.520 there's a kind of quiet resolution that is being set did you notice that um the other saturday at

00:38:09.580 the unite the kingdom rally i didn't see one reform uh flag in the crowd i didn't think about

00:38:17.360 actually weirdly i have a look back on the picture yeah i didn't there are there are a store flag

00:38:21.860 there are i mean when i was on the stage and i said look we're coming a huge cheer like the you

00:38:27.500 could feel the energy and the mandate of heaven was very much with rupert i mean when tommy was

00:38:31.540 saying you know i'm not going to tell you which party to vote for and he lists all the parties

00:38:35.520 and people start cheering rupert in my in my little address after tommy after tommy i said

00:38:40.700 you know that i think that rupert lowe's currently the only man who could lead that peaceful revolution

00:38:45.260 but this is and it's coming i i think so because this is what i've noticed is it's it's not wild

00:38:53.220 eyed radicals right who are joining restore it's people who have seen the state of travel the

00:38:58.840 direction of travel the state of play the direction of travel and have just kind of quietly but firmly

00:39:03.500 set themselves against it they said no i'm whatever you're asking me to do i'm not doing that

00:39:08.100 i'm just going to start traveling in the right direction that i think is the right thing for the

00:39:12.080 future and rupert lowe is the person embodying that and i can feel like i can feel the the sort

00:39:18.740 of the patient resistance in restore i can feel it like we've been through this like all of these

00:39:25.240 very few people are you know i mean there are some young people obviously but a lot of them

00:39:30.400 are people who've got some experience in life and who have been around the block a few times

00:39:35.800 we've all been led up the garden path a few times as well haven't we exactly and we're not

00:39:41.820 voting for the second best option anymore no just not doing it and this is or the least worst option

00:39:46.840 yeah exactly the least worst option we're not voting for that anymore we're voting for the

00:39:50.280 thing that we think actually is going to get the job done and it's already got a track record of

00:39:54.680 victory this is and you've also got rupert's um going to be going public with his rape gang

00:40:01.160 inquiry oh yes i can't imagine that uh the political establishment whether it's the reds

00:40:07.300 or the Blues, or anybody else,

00:40:08.800 it's going to come out very well out of any of this.

00:40:11.220 No.

00:40:11.720 I mean, there's a reason that they've done everything they can

00:40:14.260 to suppress it.

00:40:15.740 And this is why...

00:40:16.960 I mean, a lot of reform people say,

00:40:18.680 why should I vote for Restore over Reform,

00:40:21.500 since Nigel Farage ends up catching up to your positions anyway,

00:40:26.180 because you drag him to the right.

00:40:27.920 And it's like, well, that's a great question.

00:40:29.220 That's not leadership, is it?

00:40:31.000 Exactly.

00:40:31.740 I mean, Nigel is.

00:40:33.040 Nigel doesn't make the political wind.

00:40:34.800 He's never made the political wind.

00:40:36.200 he sees which winds the wind's blowing and then he'll he'll join it when it's safe to do so

00:40:42.000 i've said this for years now he leads from the back he leads from the rear he watches other

00:40:47.160 people carving out space and says right i'm going to go and occupy that for you because i've got a 0.91

00:40:51.940 large media presence it's like sorry nigel i don't want someone who's constantly behind the crest of 0.69

00:40:55.780 the wave actually as you said it's not leadership i actually want a person who's carving out the 0.86

00:41:01.280 space to be the guy in charge and actually doing it and this was the rape gang inquiry is such a

00:41:05.860 great example i'm glad you brought it up because nigel frosh stood up in parliament said i will

00:41:10.460 conduct that rape gang inquiry myself it didn't happen there's no difference between him and the

00:41:15.240 labor party then is there no no there's not he's it's exactly what the labor party did and of course

00:41:20.420 no one even talks about the conservative party on this issue at all even though they had 14 years

00:41:24.700 in government to do whatever they wanted about it they could have done anything they did nothing

00:41:28.620 because they're the conservative party and so who actually did it well rupert lowe crowdfunded it

00:41:33.200 got £660,000, actually did the inquiry.

00:41:36.940 And like you said, the report's going to be released.

00:41:38.860 And it's, I mean, Rupert described it as the worst two weeks of his life.

00:41:41.840 And the government inquiry would take, you know, they already said five years.

00:41:47.020 Oh, yeah.

00:41:47.620 But you know they're just kicking that can down the road.

00:41:50.000 Well, I mean, I have no faith in public inquiries.

00:41:52.280 You know, despite being the MP who uncovered the Post Office Horizon scandal,

00:41:56.240 you know, in the end, they never called me to give my evidence

00:41:58.840 at the public inquiry with Wynne Williams.

00:42:01.280 I filled the forms in on day one.

00:42:02.740 I was the one that got Boris Johnson to agree to have the public inquiry.

00:42:07.640 I introduced him to my constituents, Michael and Susan Rudkin.

00:42:12.320 He had a Zoom call with them, and five days later his office rang me

00:42:16.660 and said, yes, I'm going to authorise the public inquiry.

00:42:19.320 Look where that went.

00:42:20.400 And I didn't even get to give evidence because they didn't want my evidence.

00:42:24.420 This is the difference, isn't it?

00:42:26.500 The people who say they'll do something and either not do it properly

00:42:30.360 or not do it at all versus the person who says he'll do it and actually oh words are cheap aren't

00:42:35.900 they words are cheap uh from especially from politicians i mean i i i can remember a very

00:42:41.020 wise old man he'll be long dead now in northwest leicestershire uh probably about 2006 when i was

00:42:46.940 first canvassing before the 2010 election and i i met him he was well in his 80s then and he said

00:42:54.340 you have to remember lad he said that politicians promises he says that they're like pie crusts

00:43:00.340 they're soon broken well we know well we've had enough of that haven't we yeah but he's not wrong

00:43:07.620 he's not absolutely this is this is i mean he was a wise man well he'd seen a few hadn't he

00:43:12.900 there's a reason this is the received wisdom of the general public and why half of them have

00:43:16.740 checked out of politics yes and this is why i think rupert lowe cuts such a dramatic figure on

00:43:23.060 the world on the political stage at the moment he actually does the things we need to we need to

00:43:28.660 appeal now to the dispossessed and the disillusioned and to bring them back because now is the time

00:43:34.820 in in our nation's need our hour of need is for every man and woman to come to the aid of the

00:43:41.760 party and so um what final parting thoughts would you have about this entire situation

00:43:49.660 anything that we haven't covered so far that you'd like to say well i mean the the labor mp

00:43:55.360 Simmons who gave his seat up after two years and bear in mind you know I've always felt as well

00:44:01.760 that there's there is a negative the public don't like unnecessary elections yeah that most of the

00:44:09.220 public think about elect elections for a very limited amount of time possibly only just before

00:44:15.500 a general election now they've there's always I've noticed always been an electoral backlash

00:44:19.780 against the party that forces an unnecessary election on the public and that's the Labour

00:44:25.540 Party. They've done it purely for selfish reasons thinking that they own those votes and that could

00:44:32.620 be a big problem for them. Excellent. Andrew thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - May 26, 2026

On the Ground in Makerfield ｜ Interview with Andrew Bridgen

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