The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - January 25, 2025


PREVIEW： An Analysis of Nosferatu (2024)


Episode Stats

Length

30 minutes

Words per Minute

170.93747

Word Count

5,221

Sentence Count

313

Misogynist Sentences

11

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary

Harry and Mark discuss the new film, Nosferatu, directed by Robert Eggers, and the intellectual property issues surrounding it. They also discuss the recent death of David Lynch, and whether or not he should have been allowed to live on in the wake of his passing.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Harry and I's discussion of the recently released film Nosferatu.
00:00:05.960 This was directed by Robert Eggers, who is one of our favourite directors, I think it's safe to say.
00:00:10.160 Certainly my favourite director of the moment.
00:00:12.620 I would say the same thing, because I think Stanley Kubrick, you know, always be number one for me.
00:00:19.000 Yeah, and David Lynch is my favourite overall, but he's not really releasing anything these days.
00:00:24.020 There's always rumours spreading that he's about to do something with Netflix,
00:00:27.500 or maybe he's going to carry on Twin Peaks in some esoteric and roundabout way.
00:00:32.460 But the man's nearing his 80s now, and he's living in LA, which has just burned down.
00:00:37.820 So, you know, best wishes to him.
00:00:40.140 Stay safe.
00:00:40.740 Stay safe. I don't think anything's going to be coming from him any time soon.
00:00:44.280 I'd love to be proven wrong, though.
00:00:45.940 Yes. So Nosferatu, obviously, is something that is not unfamiliar to most people.
00:00:53.520 Most people are familiar with the name, which is a made-up name, of course.
00:00:58.020 And this, of course, is a thing that was inspired by Bram Stoker's Dracula.
00:01:04.600 Heavily inspired.
00:01:06.500 Some might say his widow.
00:01:09.060 Yeah, his widow might even argue, which she did, that it was a complete rip-off.
00:01:12.980 And of course, the original film was ordered by the courts to be destroyed,
00:01:17.200 because it was so similar to the original.
00:01:19.980 And this was released in, what, 1922, wasn't it?
00:01:22.500 Yeah, the original was 1922.
00:01:24.700 It was some production company in Germany that only released one film, which was Nosferatu.
00:01:30.960 And the reason that they ordered it to be destroyed was by the time that they were making the...
00:01:35.000 She was making the court order against them.
00:01:37.480 They had no money.
00:01:38.820 They were bankrupt, so they couldn't defend themselves in court.
00:01:41.920 Well, what I understand of it, obviously it was a long time ago, and it also doesn't matter,
00:01:46.880 but I'm going to be pedantic anyway,
00:01:48.180 is that the occultists set up the film company, because it was funded by an occultist figure,
00:01:55.700 to make films about the occult.
00:01:59.200 And this was going to be the first one.
00:02:01.540 And basically, to avoid having to pay a large sum of money,
00:02:05.340 he made the film company bankrupt as a choice.
00:02:10.880 Oh, okay.
00:02:11.400 To avoid the potential hefty fines.
00:02:14.460 That makes sense.
00:02:15.420 Pretty scummy behaviour, overall.
00:02:17.960 Well, I don't agree with the notion of intellectual property, so I don't think...
00:02:23.000 It's like how the Verve's Bittersweet Symphony pays the Rolling Stones,
00:02:29.220 even though what they did with the samples is entirely different.
00:02:34.160 Wait, I didn't even realise that song sampled the Rolling Stones.
00:02:37.380 It samples a string part in one of the Rolling Stones' more esoteric albums.
00:02:44.560 Oh, is that what the main string refrain of the song is?
00:02:47.800 But they've added stuff, they've moved it around, they've changed the character of it.
00:02:50.860 It's an entirely different song.
00:02:53.420 And just as Dracula is one story, I think Nosferatu is another.
00:02:57.620 And although they're similar, and they're playing off of vampire sort of myths...
00:03:03.160 Folklore.
00:03:03.840 Folklore, that's a better word for it.
00:03:05.560 But it's the same with anything, really, isn't it?
00:03:08.220 It's like folk music, in that things pass around through word of mouth,
00:03:14.120 and it sort of gets embellished slightly over time.
00:03:18.200 That's natural, and I think it's healthy.
00:03:20.180 Oral tradition, which is passed down through generations of a particular culture.
00:03:24.920 So I agree with you that it's healthy.
00:03:26.740 Just to harp on the intellectual property thing as well,
00:03:28.960 we have both complained at length about people accusing Led Zeppelin of ripping off various blues artists and blues songs.
00:03:37.180 I have complained about this online, and somebody sent me a song that was supposedly the song that Led Zeppelin ripped off for Whole Lotta Love,
00:03:45.000 which has one verse that has the same lyrics, otherwise is a completely different song.
00:03:51.640 They sound nothing like one another.
00:03:54.560 Too often, sadly, the argument of intellectual property can be used so that somebody who is unsuccessful, unknown,
00:04:02.420 basically a nobody, can piggyback off of the success of somebody else.
00:04:06.600 Notice how it was Bram Stoker's Widow that did it, you know, payday.
00:04:13.640 Also, for the Rolling Stones and the Verve, it was their lawyers, and the Rolling Stones said,
00:04:18.960 oh, the Verve song's way better than ours, they should keep the money, and that's not happened.
00:04:23.700 You know, respect to them, I suppose.
00:04:26.100 Yeah.
00:04:28.140 Actual creatives can respect other people's creativity, and they can see that it's distinct,
00:04:33.060 but when there's money involved, people tend to be scummy.
00:04:35.960 Yeah, thank God that there weren't lawyers about when we first figured out the diatonic scales,
00:04:41.120 or they'd all be copyrighted, and you wouldn't be able to do anything.
00:04:45.160 Well, I mean, pharmaceutical companies can copyright chemical compounds,
00:04:51.820 like the actual aspects of the way our universe works can be copyrighted.
00:04:57.020 That's very interesting.
00:04:57.860 I think we're going a little bit off topic here, which I have helped along, so...
00:05:01.380 I'm just hammering that point home.
00:05:02.860 But the point being is that there are lots and lots of adaptations of Nosferatu,
00:05:08.260 I think around 30 in total, if not more so.
00:05:12.840 Certainly even more if you include amateur productions and perhaps stage plays and things like that.
00:05:18.260 Well, I think Robert Eggers has said that in his childhood, he put on a school performance of Nosferatu.
00:05:25.260 That was his foray into sort of the performing arts, in a sense, isn't it?
00:05:30.120 He started off as a bit of an actor rather than a director,
00:05:34.360 and I think he had a role in directing that play, but it was very different.
00:05:39.020 Yeah, well, this has been a passion project of his, and on the subject of the other versions of Nosferatu,
00:05:46.160 in preparation for this, I decided to watch the two most famous ones,
00:05:50.460 which is the original 1922 film, and then Werner Herzog's 1979 adaptation,
00:05:58.580 which is a strange hybrid because it's telling the story of Nosferatu, the 1922 film,
00:06:03.960 but changes everybody's name so that they're back to the original Bram Stoker name.
00:06:08.980 So it's not Nosferatu, it's Count Dracula.
00:06:11.600 You're not following Thomas Hutter, you're following Jonathan Harker.
00:06:16.760 So it's a strange mix of the two, but overall follows the same beats
00:06:21.380 with a few additions that Herzog put in himself,
00:06:25.780 and it was the first Herzog film that I've ever watched.
00:06:28.540 I really enjoyed it.
00:06:29.400 I've got to admit, I much preferred it to the original one,
00:06:32.940 because the original one, I understand, is a German expressionist classic.
00:06:37.600 It set the stage for a lot of different film techniques, special effects.
00:06:41.360 The use of shadow, especially, is wonderful.
00:06:45.360 But perhaps I'm just spoiled by the delights of colour and sound that we get these days with films.
00:06:52.720 The actual style of silent film does not work as well for me.
00:06:56.500 I was thinking about this in terms of aviation,
00:06:59.760 because I agree that the 22 film is very important,
00:07:02.800 and it's very useful for film analysis, perhaps.
00:07:07.440 However, as an actual thing to watch, I think more recent forays are better.
00:07:12.840 And it's similar, in my mind, to an old biplane,
00:07:17.720 compared to, say, a, well, maybe not a Boeing 747,
00:07:22.960 those are a bit dodgy.
00:07:23.940 Like, I don't know, a modern plane.
00:07:27.300 You know, the old biplane has a certain charm to it.
00:07:30.840 It's, you know, a bit fanciful and a little bit outdated,
00:07:35.340 but also it's got a lot of character to it.
00:07:38.340 However, if you were to actually use the product to sound sort of disgustingly consumerist,
00:07:45.940 you would rather use the modern one,
00:07:48.240 because it's, the technology has moved so far.
00:07:51.740 Well, objectively, it's just better, right?
00:07:54.200 But we do have to, you know, thank the original for being made in the first place,
00:07:59.500 because otherwise we wouldn't be getting wonderful adaptations of the story like Robert Eggers' version.
00:08:04.020 Yeah, and it also doesn't mean that we can't acknowledge the fact that it was very important at the time of its release,
00:08:09.700 and it was very influential.
00:08:12.060 However, sometimes these things don't necessarily translate well, at least in my opinion.
00:08:16.600 I think it also didn't help that because it's public domain,
00:08:20.100 and there are so many different versions of the film,
00:08:22.780 the version that I watched half of, that I watched first,
00:08:27.040 was a public domain one on YouTube,
00:08:29.460 which had remastered the picture,
00:08:31.660 so it was all nice crisp HD,
00:08:33.460 and changed a lot of the cards,
00:08:35.220 and also used very different music.
00:08:37.740 And the picture as well was in black and white,
00:08:39.760 where the original one is tinted,
00:08:42.180 depending on what time of the day it's supposed to be.
00:08:44.720 So the nighttime scenes were all shot during the day,
00:08:48.020 but on the original version,
00:08:49.820 they're tinted blue,
00:08:50.800 so that you know that it's taking place at nighttime.
00:08:53.060 This was all picture-perfect, crisp, black and white,
00:08:56.240 so it just looks like Nosferatu himself is just roaming about in the middle of the day,
00:09:00.320 which confused me somewhat.
00:09:02.320 And then it did...
00:09:03.460 The worst part was the music that they chose.
00:09:05.940 It's a horror film.
00:09:07.160 It's a gothic horror film.
00:09:08.840 Some might argue the original gothic horror film.
00:09:11.860 It's supposed to have scary music with organ stings
00:09:15.240 to let you know when you're supposed to jump.
00:09:17.680 This had the most pleasant classical music
00:09:21.860 playing in the background.
00:09:23.280 It wasn't quite to the level of...
00:09:25.040 But it was close.
00:09:28.940 And I almost fell asleep 10 times watching it.
00:09:32.820 So I was like,
00:09:33.480 what on earth is all the big fuss about with this?
00:09:36.220 And then I...
00:09:36.860 A nice Dracula film to fall asleep to.
00:09:38.660 I know.
00:09:39.480 And then I found a better version of it,
00:09:42.240 which was more along the lines of the original,
00:09:44.260 with better title...
00:09:45.140 With better cards used.
00:09:48.020 The tinting kept there.
00:09:49.680 Lower picture quality,
00:09:50.840 but that actually helped.
00:09:51.860 And the entire thing was soundtracked by spooky organ.
00:09:56.020 So there's two things to say here.
00:09:57.620 First of all,
00:09:58.040 the director, Robert Eggers,
00:09:59.780 actually told a story about how he saw a still
00:10:02.460 from the original Nosferatu,
00:10:05.160 and he thought it was the coolest thing he'd ever seen.
00:10:07.220 And he said to his mum,
00:10:09.280 I want to watch this film.
00:10:11.300 And so they ordered it in the video store,
00:10:13.980 and it took a month to arrive.
00:10:16.700 And apparently,
00:10:18.140 because it was quite old as well,
00:10:20.660 it was quite grainy and worn out.
00:10:22.780 And he said that actually added to the film,
00:10:25.080 because he had seen more modern,
00:10:26.700 but like recreations, I suppose,
00:10:28.980 remasters, whatever you want to call it.
00:10:30.860 And the precision of the image didn't help it.
00:10:34.540 Actually,
00:10:34.900 the sort of fading and degradation of it
00:10:37.600 helped sell the original films.
00:10:40.420 I think it becomes more immersive with something that...
00:10:42.920 It feels more like you're watching something
00:10:44.740 that's real rather than a piece of fiction.
00:10:47.160 I'd like to think of it as sort of him
00:10:50.860 almost thinking it's like found footage.
00:10:53.500 Yeah.
00:10:53.740 As a young kid.
00:10:55.340 But one important thing about that,
00:10:57.820 that you're talking about the original,
00:10:59.040 is that they used sort of slides to colour the thing.
00:11:03.480 That's exactly how Eggers gets the amazing night time scenes.
00:11:08.720 Some of the best visuals of night time and darkness
00:11:13.940 I think I've ever seen in a film, by the way,
00:11:16.540 which is saying something
00:11:18.120 because, of course, so many films do it.
00:11:20.660 Normally, in a lot of modern cinema,
00:11:23.600 when it's very dark
00:11:24.720 and there's a sort of love of the dark
00:11:26.340 over the past five to ten years
00:11:28.100 in both TV and cinema,
00:11:29.800 I'm thinking Game of Thrones was very guilty of it.
00:11:32.120 Oh, don't remind me of Game of Thrones.
00:11:34.280 I know.
00:11:34.840 But you tend not to be able to make out anything,
00:11:38.420 but what Eggers did was had it very bright,
00:11:41.340 but then put a...
00:11:42.520 They basically eliminated the reds
00:11:45.120 at the camera level
00:11:46.600 and had a blue filter over it.
00:11:50.900 So it was mostly blue and green light,
00:11:53.540 but mostly blue.
00:11:55.120 There would still be a little bit of green there.
00:11:57.540 But that gives you an impression
00:11:59.360 of things being illuminated by moonlight.
00:12:01.920 And that really works.
00:12:02.880 It worked very well.
00:12:03.960 I was so surprised at how well done it was.
00:12:09.740 And it really goes well to sell the film
00:12:12.780 as a really polished piece of cinema, I suppose.
00:12:18.140 Oh, yeah.
00:12:18.420 I mean, this is one of the best-looking films
00:12:21.220 I've ever watched.
00:12:22.180 I agree.
00:12:22.600 Honestly, every frame is gorgeous in this film.
00:12:26.700 And it's very, very impressive
00:12:27.680 because Eggers is already
00:12:28.800 a very technically accomplished filmmaker.
00:12:30.440 Well, let's talk about his previous films, actually.
00:12:33.440 Well, just let me...
00:12:35.040 This film was on what is today considered
00:12:38.060 a mid-level budget,
00:12:39.640 which was about $50 million.
00:12:41.440 And I believe globally
00:12:42.900 it's already taken in more than $100 million.
00:12:45.480 So if you were to account for marketing as well,
00:12:47.980 it's already broken even,
00:12:49.680 which is really good to see
00:12:51.500 because I would like to see more directors
00:12:54.320 take on passion projects like this
00:12:56.980 and be rewarded for it
00:12:58.520 rather than somebody like Robert Eggers
00:13:00.740 get sucked into the studio system
00:13:02.740 where they would get him to churn out
00:13:04.180 crap for a few years
00:13:05.980 and then decide because the crap
00:13:07.660 that they've hired him on as a director
00:13:09.660 for, you know, his gun for hire
00:13:11.380 didn't make them the money back,
00:13:13.140 then all of a sudden his career is ruined.
00:13:15.080 I'm glad he's not taking that road.
00:13:17.900 Yeah, because many talented directors
00:13:19.440 have fallen prey to that.
00:13:20.940 And also actors have gone into those films
00:13:24.220 for the promise of a paycheck
00:13:25.320 and they've struggled to get away from it.
00:13:27.500 I think a good example of someone
00:13:29.920 who's lived in the shadow
00:13:31.080 of just accepting bad films
00:13:33.120 is Nicolas Cage.
00:13:34.100 And people say he's a bad actor,
00:13:36.240 but it's not his acting.
00:13:37.520 He elevates the bad films he's in.
00:13:40.120 It's not that he's dragging it down,
00:13:42.060 quite to the contrary.
00:13:43.180 It's just that I think he got into a lot of debt
00:13:45.200 and had to just accept lots of films
00:13:47.260 and churn them out.
00:13:48.220 I believe it was the IRS
00:13:51.080 wanted a lot of...
00:13:53.400 because Nicolas Cage was not the most diligent
00:13:55.860 in paying his government taxes.
00:14:05.520 Just another reason to like the guy.
00:14:07.340 And as a result,
00:14:08.740 it ended up with him having to star
00:14:10.240 in a lot of bad films
00:14:11.120 so he could pay them back.
00:14:12.240 Well, now he lives in the UK, doesn't he?
00:14:13.800 He's got a house in Bath.
00:14:14.860 Also, he just loves starring in films.
00:14:16.540 I think he's just mental
00:14:17.720 and loves starring in films,
00:14:19.320 which, you know, more respect to him.
00:14:21.140 But on the subject of the budget, right,
00:14:23.280 to show how overinflated
00:14:25.060 the typical Hollywood budget is these days,
00:14:28.220 I think a comparison is order.
00:14:30.280 So a recent film that came out
00:14:32.280 was called The Red One,
00:14:34.420 I believe was what it was called.
00:14:35.820 Never even heard of it.
00:14:36.620 It was starring The Rock
00:14:38.620 and it was about Santa Claus being kidnapped
00:14:42.060 and The Rock teams up with
00:14:44.680 Chris, not Chris Pratt,
00:14:46.980 one of the other ones from The Avengers
00:14:48.620 and ends up having to try and save
00:14:51.800 Santa Claus from Krampus
00:14:53.320 or whoever it is, right?
00:14:55.380 That film had a $250 million budget
00:14:59.100 and $50 million of that alone
00:15:02.660 was to pay for The Rock.
00:15:05.140 So The Rock's entire paycheck
00:15:07.060 for starring in that film
00:15:08.680 was the same as the budget for this.
00:15:11.940 And the film made no money back,
00:15:14.620 obviously,
00:15:15.540 because it turns out
00:15:16.320 paying $50 million to The Rock
00:15:17.880 doesn't automatically guarantee
00:15:19.320 your film will be a success
00:15:20.820 because most of the films
00:15:22.100 The Rock stars in are shit.
00:15:24.040 Well, he's like a litmus test
00:15:25.480 for will I watch that film?
00:15:27.280 There are lots of actors like that
00:15:28.700 where if they're in the film,
00:15:30.020 I won't watch it.
00:15:31.020 Also, Willem Dafoe is in this one.
00:15:33.120 He's a much better actor than The Rock.
00:15:35.280 It's not even...
00:15:36.120 It feels insulting comparing them.
00:15:38.420 And I don't think he would...
00:15:40.360 In fact, I think Willem Dafoe
00:15:42.500 actually approached Eggers
00:15:43.760 and said,
00:15:44.420 I want to work with you
00:15:45.400 rather than the other way around.
00:15:46.800 Well, it's an excellent
00:15:47.420 working relationship thus far
00:15:49.160 because the first collaboration
00:15:50.220 they had was The Lighthouse.
00:15:51.800 And since then,
00:15:52.640 he's been in The Northman
00:15:53.720 and now Nosferatu.
00:15:55.320 The only film he's not been in
00:15:56.500 was The Witch.
00:15:57.260 Let's talk about these films then.
00:15:59.080 So Eggers' sort of filmography
00:16:00.980 is The Witch was released in 2015.
00:16:03.660 The Lighthouse in 2019
00:16:05.080 and The Northman in 2022.
00:16:07.600 And I think it's worth
00:16:08.300 just talking briefly
00:16:09.340 about those films
00:16:10.440 because I think my favourite
00:16:13.620 out of all of Eggers' films
00:16:15.340 is The Lighthouse.
00:16:17.000 I'd have to agree with you there.
00:16:18.720 The Lighthouse,
00:16:19.960 for what it's aiming for,
00:16:21.680 is perfect.
00:16:23.100 In every detail of that film,
00:16:25.400 you can tell
00:16:25.960 that it's the work
00:16:27.480 of a genius, artsy mind.
00:16:30.280 It's not the sort of film
00:16:31.200 that appeals to many people.
00:16:33.100 I've shown it to friends.
00:16:34.460 I got my family to watch it.
00:16:36.340 They all came out
00:16:37.060 of the other end of it
00:16:37.960 disgusted and horrified
00:16:39.620 that I got them
00:16:40.440 to sit through it.
00:16:41.720 But I think it's a masterpiece.
00:16:44.280 So do I, yeah.
00:16:45.060 I think everything about it
00:16:47.540 was done well.
00:16:48.360 The fact that he used
00:16:49.580 the sort of film
00:16:50.880 that was authentic
00:16:51.500 to the time he was trying
00:16:52.400 to set it in,
00:16:53.160 the aspect ratio.
00:16:54.220 He got,
00:16:55.920 the dialogue
00:16:56.940 was actually taken
00:16:58.440 from old Lighthouse Keepers
00:17:00.520 journals
00:17:01.220 and things like that.
00:17:03.520 And he'd read
00:17:04.600 lots and lots
00:17:05.620 of period appropriate things
00:17:07.360 to make sure
00:17:08.300 there were no
00:17:09.440 anachronistic things
00:17:10.540 that stuck out.
00:17:11.700 He also got two good actors
00:17:12.900 in Willem Dafoe
00:17:14.020 and Robert Pattinson,
00:17:16.300 of course,
00:17:16.720 known for the Twilight films.
00:17:18.640 But he's much more than that.
00:17:20.080 He's actually
00:17:20.420 a very solid actor.
00:17:21.500 He's an excellent actor
00:17:22.900 when you get in
00:17:23.460 with the right director
00:17:24.320 in the right role
00:17:25.320 and the Lighthouse
00:17:26.220 was a standout performance
00:17:27.660 for him
00:17:28.060 and for Willem Dafoe
00:17:29.400 as well.
00:17:30.280 Both of them, yeah.
00:17:31.240 And you can see why
00:17:32.240 after you starred
00:17:33.000 in something like that
00:17:34.220 with that director
00:17:34.980 you'd go,
00:17:35.520 all right,
00:17:35.760 this guy's got
00:17:36.760 a visionary eye
00:17:37.640 and I want to work
00:17:39.020 with him more.
00:17:39.520 If it means I get to do
00:17:40.420 more performances like this,
00:17:41.820 more excellent character
00:17:42.800 work like this.
00:17:43.760 Because outside of anything else
00:17:45.280 you can say about
00:17:45.900 the Lighthouse,
00:17:46.740 which is,
00:17:47.800 for how claustrophobic
00:17:49.840 and small scale it is,
00:17:51.360 it's also very expansive
00:17:52.760 in the interpretations
00:17:53.820 and themes
00:17:54.460 that you can glean from it.
00:17:55.620 I've even seen
00:17:56.240 some interpretations
00:17:57.120 which I would
00:17:57.980 quite agree with
00:17:59.100 is that it's a stealth
00:18:00.120 retelling of the myth
00:18:01.200 of Prometheus.
00:18:03.420 I've seen that one as well.
00:18:04.820 Where Robert Pattinson
00:18:06.540 is trying to
00:18:07.680 steal fire
00:18:09.160 represented by the light
00:18:10.420 at the top of the lighthouse
00:18:11.520 for the sake of
00:18:13.120 expanding man's knowledge
00:18:14.300 and he's being guarded
00:18:15.260 from it by Willem Dafoe
00:18:16.580 who's representing
00:18:17.300 the rest of the pantheon,
00:18:19.440 Poseidon in particular.
00:18:20.620 There are a few scenes
00:18:22.160 that are explicit
00:18:23.420 nods to Greek mythology.
00:18:26.960 And the last shot
00:18:28.140 of the entire film
00:18:29.020 where Pattinson's
00:18:29.800 getting his guts
00:18:30.780 eaten out by the crows.
00:18:33.120 Sorry if you wanted
00:18:34.020 to watch the film.
00:18:35.520 Well, you know,
00:18:36.420 I imagine
00:18:37.380 there's a lot,
00:18:39.000 there's still a lot more
00:18:40.060 to the film
00:18:41.080 if you want to watch it.
00:18:42.740 Even if you know
00:18:42.860 what happens,
00:18:43.480 it's one of those films
00:18:44.180 where if you watch it
00:18:45.760 knowing what happens,
00:18:47.620 you're still in
00:18:48.400 for a wild ride
00:18:49.940 and a good time.
00:18:50.960 Yeah.
00:18:52.040 So, you know,
00:18:52.900 I love The Lighthouse.
00:18:54.400 After that,
00:18:56.120 I'm trying to think
00:18:56.800 of how I would rank
00:18:57.680 his films.
00:18:58.680 I'd probably put
00:18:59.720 The Northman
00:19:00.360 as my second favourite
00:19:01.780 of his
00:19:02.780 because, again,
00:19:04.280 with his
00:19:04.800 eye for period detail
00:19:06.480 and his respect
00:19:07.480 for history,
00:19:08.140 I would say
00:19:09.180 that Robert Eggers
00:19:10.200 is the only
00:19:12.240 reactionary filmmaker
00:19:13.660 in Hollywood
00:19:14.420 and he's gone
00:19:15.180 in interviews
00:19:15.780 to basically
00:19:17.840 say it as politely
00:19:19.020 as possible.
00:19:20.880 You'll notice
00:19:21.580 a lot of his films
00:19:22.600 have no diversity
00:19:23.920 in them whatsoever
00:19:24.960 and he seems
00:19:25.860 to choose period pieces
00:19:27.100 that he would
00:19:27.920 be able to say,
00:19:29.160 well, I'm respecting
00:19:29.900 the history
00:19:31.460 and the perspectives
00:19:32.460 of the people
00:19:33.080 at the time.
00:19:33.760 The Northman
00:19:34.220 is a great example
00:19:35.040 of that.
00:19:35.520 It is brutal.
00:19:36.680 It is uncompromising.
00:19:38.400 The main character
00:19:39.100 Amleth,
00:19:39.740 because it's retelling
00:19:40.420 the story of Amleth,
00:19:41.660 which was an old saga
00:19:42.660 that was later adapted
00:19:44.000 by Shakespeare
00:19:44.680 into Hamlet,
00:19:46.240 it takes these characters
00:19:48.360 who are completely
00:19:49.380 unpalatable
00:19:50.040 to a modern mindset
00:19:51.060 or modern Christian morality
00:19:52.340 and shows them
00:19:53.300 on their own terms.
00:19:54.940 He doesn't necessarily
00:19:56.420 dress up.
00:19:58.140 A lot of portrayals
00:19:59.400 of Vikings
00:19:59.960 are normally
00:20:01.480 trying to make you
00:20:02.680 sympathise with people
00:20:03.580 and take sides.
00:20:04.360 I'm thinking of a lot
00:20:05.000 of the TV series
00:20:06.100 that have been
00:20:07.100 inundating
00:20:07.940 things like that.
00:20:09.300 I've never watched it.
00:20:10.700 Or,
00:20:11.140 what's it called?
00:20:13.020 The one with
00:20:13.700 Uhtred Ragnus
00:20:14.700 and that one.
00:20:15.900 Is that not
00:20:16.960 Kingdom?
00:20:17.500 Oh, I've not watched it.
00:20:18.520 Anyway,
00:20:18.960 all of those,
00:20:20.860 I think,
00:20:21.700 they don't have
00:20:22.660 enough respect
00:20:23.220 for the history of it,
00:20:24.400 whereas one of the
00:20:25.200 first scenes
00:20:26.200 is when they carry out
00:20:27.040 a raid
00:20:27.480 on a Russian village
00:20:29.420 and it portrays
00:20:31.760 the Vikings
00:20:32.340 for what they
00:20:33.200 actually did,
00:20:33.900 the raiding.
00:20:34.940 And it's awful.
00:20:36.100 It's a truly
00:20:36.860 awful thing.
00:20:38.300 And at one point,
00:20:40.240 you know,
00:20:40.460 the character
00:20:40.860 we're following
00:20:41.680 murdering men
00:20:45.220 like it's nothing.
00:20:46.680 And at one point,
00:20:48.020 he even
00:20:48.560 hits a man
00:20:50.340 off his horse
00:20:50.820 with an axe
00:20:51.380 and then while
00:20:51.920 he's on the ground,
00:20:52.760 bites his throat
00:20:53.420 out and howls
00:20:54.180 like a wolf.
00:20:54.900 And this is the guy
00:20:55.620 you're meant to
00:20:56.080 sympathise with
00:20:56.720 for the rest
00:20:57.100 of the film.
00:20:57.900 Yeah,
00:20:58.200 and also it shows
00:20:59.200 that his fellow
00:21:00.300 raiders
00:21:00.880 herding a load
00:21:02.360 of the women
00:21:02.820 and children
00:21:03.440 and the weak men
00:21:04.760 into a hut
00:21:05.540 and then burning
00:21:06.300 it down.
00:21:07.500 So it's uncompromising
00:21:08.840 in its portrayal
00:21:09.580 of what those
00:21:10.180 raids would have
00:21:11.240 looked like
00:21:11.860 and then of course
00:21:12.740 those who survive,
00:21:13.800 they take on
00:21:14.720 a load of the women
00:21:15.400 as slaves
00:21:16.580 to be sold off.
00:21:17.700 But what Eggers
00:21:18.520 does here
00:21:19.840 by visualising
00:21:20.880 these things
00:21:21.460 that did happen
00:21:22.340 in history
00:21:22.960 is it gives you
00:21:25.080 a means of thinking
00:21:26.020 about them
00:21:26.500 in a much more
00:21:27.260 human way.
00:21:28.080 It's not just
00:21:28.460 an abstraction
00:21:29.160 that oh this
00:21:29.960 thing happened.
00:21:31.180 Like one of the
00:21:32.500 things that I
00:21:33.420 re-watched that
00:21:34.300 raid scene
00:21:34.880 recently just
00:21:36.220 to sort of
00:21:37.380 prepare for this
00:21:38.160 and one of the
00:21:40.040 things that struck
00:21:40.520 me is that
00:21:41.340 well if you're
00:21:43.240 struggling to
00:21:43.880 survive
00:21:44.360 you're not
00:21:46.000 necessarily thinking
00:21:46.800 about morality
00:21:47.660 you're thinking
00:21:48.340 about how are
00:21:50.080 these things
00:21:50.520 useful to me
00:21:51.680 and so there's
00:21:53.120 a sort of
00:21:53.500 twisted logic to
00:21:54.440 everything the
00:21:54.880 Vikings do
00:21:55.480 because all
00:21:57.200 of it is
00:21:57.900 sort of
00:21:58.220 optimising
00:21:59.140 what is best
00:22:00.360 for me
00:22:00.880 and this is
00:22:02.840 an entirely
00:22:03.300 different way
00:22:04.020 of looking at
00:22:04.640 things.
00:22:05.200 It's not
00:22:05.480 they're not
00:22:06.420 thinking about
00:22:07.020 morality although
00:22:07.800 you know
00:22:08.440 by their own
00:22:09.260 morality it is
00:22:10.680 moral right.
00:22:11.320 well it's the
00:22:12.800 fact that it
00:22:13.420 can show you
00:22:14.380 scenes like
00:22:14.960 that and by
00:22:15.660 the end of
00:22:16.040 the film still
00:22:16.700 have you
00:22:17.200 rooting for
00:22:18.320 Amleth and
00:22:19.420 sympathising with
00:22:20.560 what he's going
00:22:21.240 through is the
00:22:22.400 sign of a very
00:22:23.000 very impressive
00:22:23.680 filmmaker who
00:22:24.760 really knows how
00:22:25.560 to tell these
00:22:26.180 stories.
00:22:27.340 Although the
00:22:28.480 witch what did
00:22:29.520 you think of
00:22:30.020 the witch?
00:22:31.060 I think the
00:22:31.520 witch was
00:22:32.040 actually one of
00:22:32.880 my favourites
00:22:33.540 I really liked
00:22:34.420 the whole
00:22:35.960 approach to the
00:22:36.740 film the theme
00:22:37.640 the pacing of
00:22:39.000 it I liked
00:22:40.620 the almost
00:22:43.300 mythological
00:22:44.480 approach to
00:22:45.500 portraying a
00:22:46.540 witch where
00:22:47.060 you don't really
00:22:47.820 see her that
00:22:49.560 much.
00:22:50.360 You see her very
00:22:50.900 early on in the
00:22:51.660 film.
00:22:52.060 You see her early
00:22:52.720 on in the film
00:22:53.360 but she doesn't
00:22:54.520 take up much
00:22:55.360 of the you know
00:22:56.540 many or much
00:22:58.780 of the run time
00:22:59.320 should I say
00:22:59.920 and also she
00:23:01.860 sort of changes
00:23:02.720 form a little
00:23:04.500 bit and it's
00:23:05.040 sort of even
00:23:06.620 though they
00:23:07.420 sort of give
00:23:08.380 you the money
00:23:08.780 shot and you
00:23:09.260 see the witch
00:23:10.180 early on
00:23:10.760 it's you
00:23:13.620 kind of don't
00:23:14.840 feel like it's
00:23:15.400 been spoiled
00:23:15.880 because also
00:23:17.100 she's you see
00:23:19.280 this horrible
00:23:19.680 old woman then
00:23:20.280 you see this
00:23:20.720 young woman and
00:23:22.060 it's because of
00:23:22.960 the magic she's
00:23:23.700 used.
00:23:24.400 If nothing else
00:23:25.480 the witch is
00:23:26.100 interesting because
00:23:27.080 it does something
00:23:27.980 that Eggers likes
00:23:29.040 to do I've
00:23:30.580 seen even from
00:23:31.700 this film which
00:23:33.600 is as early as
00:23:34.580 possible let you
00:23:35.440 know that there
00:23:36.020 are dark forces
00:23:37.200 operating in
00:23:38.060 the world and
00:23:39.060 any sort of
00:23:39.720 rationalistic
00:23:40.400 explanations that
00:23:41.320 the characters
00:23:41.740 are giving
00:23:42.200 because in the
00:23:43.620 witch obviously
00:23:44.340 the rationalistic
00:23:46.400 explanation could
00:23:47.420 be that oh
00:23:48.120 well they're all
00:23:48.640 hallucinating because
00:23:50.060 of the fact that
00:23:50.740 they've got mold on
00:23:51.620 their crops.
00:23:52.720 No that's not
00:23:53.460 what's happening
00:23:53.980 there is a witch
00:23:54.820 playing with forces
00:23:55.800 behind the scenes
00:23:56.680 and everything that
00:23:57.780 they're trying to
00:23:58.540 do to prevent the
00:24:00.080 inevitable from
00:24:00.840 happening is futile
00:24:02.200 which if anything
00:24:03.060 makes the film just
00:24:04.300 that little bit more
00:24:05.200 horrific he doesn't
00:24:06.280 he doesn't play
00:24:07.220 with suspense in
00:24:08.200 the way that you
00:24:08.760 expect some
00:24:09.580 filmmakers to do
00:24:10.680 the suspense is the
00:24:11.940 more Hitchcockian
00:24:14.160 which is that you
00:24:15.380 know that something
00:24:16.260 is you the audience
00:24:17.400 know what's wrong
00:24:18.240 the characters don't
00:24:19.900 yet so you are
00:24:21.660 subject to more
00:24:23.020 knowledge than they
00:24:23.800 are which can add
00:24:24.900 to the suspense.
00:24:26.580 Yeah I do agree.
00:24:28.800 I think the witch was
00:24:30.660 a really interesting
00:24:31.460 debut for him.
00:24:32.840 he kind of exploded
00:24:33.760 onto the scene
00:24:34.560 with that and it
00:24:36.260 set up his love
00:24:37.960 for the period
00:24:38.820 accurate dialogue
00:24:40.180 because really I'd
00:24:41.440 say it's that and
00:24:42.820 the lighthouse which
00:24:44.480 has the most period
00:24:46.300 accurate dialogue in
00:24:47.160 it and I'd say the
00:24:47.880 witch is the most
00:24:48.660 impressive because
00:24:49.360 it's going back to
00:24:50.000 the late 17th century
00:24:51.320 and it took me a few
00:24:53.400 watches to really get
00:24:54.860 to grips with what
00:24:55.660 the characters were
00:24:56.280 even saying and to
00:24:57.660 be able to get child
00:24:58.840 actors multiple child
00:25:00.460 actors to convincingly
00:25:02.220 give performances
00:25:03.060 while delivering that
00:25:04.120 dialect is insane.
00:25:06.820 I also thought the
00:25:07.580 attention to detail
00:25:08.440 in that they all have
00:25:09.400 a sort of northern
00:25:10.680 almost Mancunian
00:25:11.820 accent don't they
00:25:12.740 when they're talking
00:25:13.500 but a sort of
00:25:14.800 archaic one and that
00:25:16.160 attention to detail
00:25:17.040 where you know only a
00:25:18.840 handful of English
00:25:20.020 people watching would
00:25:20.980 be like oh that
00:25:22.320 sounds really
00:25:23.160 authentic.
00:25:24.220 Clickety clackety.
00:25:25.800 Mercy.
00:25:26.420 Clickety clackety.
00:25:27.160 Clickety clackety.
00:25:27.840 Quiet for now just to
00:25:29.000 rock.
00:25:29.520 I be washing father's
00:25:30.540 clothes like a slave
00:25:31.300 and now I'm playing
00:25:32.060 idol.
00:25:32.640 Because mother hates
00:25:33.560 you.
00:25:34.020 Spoiled child.
00:25:35.520 Tell mother you have
00:25:36.160 left the farm alone.
00:25:37.380 Blackfield says I can
00:25:38.420 do what I like.
00:25:39.140 Devil take your back
00:25:40.100 Philip.
00:25:40.880 Sure thought I can't
00:25:41.700 leave the yard.
00:25:43.000 I could go to the
00:25:43.700 brook before you let
00:25:44.700 the witch take Sam.
00:25:46.000 But if I had to rank
00:25:47.800 the films I'd probably
00:25:48.880 put Lighthouse number
00:25:50.420 one probably Nosferatu
00:25:53.940 second purely for the
00:25:56.380 visual aspect of it
00:25:58.000 I'll get into why I
00:26:00.620 think there are things
00:26:01.480 that prevent it from
00:26:02.600 being top.
00:26:03.780 Then the witch and
00:26:04.820 then finally the
00:26:05.680 Northman.
00:26:06.640 You'd put the
00:26:07.180 Northman last.
00:26:08.460 It's that lack of
00:26:09.800 lack of Germanic
00:26:11.180 admixture in you
00:26:12.160 clearly.
00:26:13.060 It sets you off.
00:26:14.540 All you see is the
00:26:15.720 Viking raiders
00:26:16.620 assaulting your
00:26:17.980 ancestors where I see
00:26:19.760 my ancestors assaulting
00:26:21.200 your ancestors.
00:26:22.260 I don't know what it
00:26:22.780 was.
00:26:23.080 I think it was more
00:26:24.620 the plot than
00:26:27.000 anything else.
00:26:27.840 I would have thought
00:26:29.740 that a film about
00:26:30.520 Vikings directed by
00:26:31.640 Robert Eggers would be
00:26:32.800 by far my favourite
00:26:34.000 because it would
00:26:34.600 appeal to me the
00:26:35.520 most.
00:26:36.340 However I felt
00:26:38.580 throughout the whole
00:26:39.540 film that things
00:26:41.260 weren't resolving in a
00:26:42.520 way that I found
00:26:43.360 satisfying.
00:26:43.980 That doesn't mean
00:26:44.540 they didn't hold
00:26:45.920 hands and it was
00:26:46.500 happily ever after.
00:26:47.820 It means that I
00:26:49.700 just wasn't as
00:26:51.520 emotionally satisfied
00:26:54.280 by what happened
00:26:56.000 in the film as
00:26:57.540 lots of other
00:26:58.020 things.
00:26:58.600 I had a different
00:26:59.520 experience whereas I
00:27:00.340 found the end of it
00:27:01.940 very very satisfying
00:27:03.560 because Amleth is
00:27:05.300 going out on his
00:27:06.040 own terms.
00:27:06.840 He's sticking to his
00:27:09.080 own code of honour
00:27:10.300 while also ensuring
00:27:11.700 the safety of his
00:27:13.020 descendants where
00:27:14.020 Anya Taylor-Joy is
00:27:14.940 going off because
00:27:15.460 she's pregnant with
00:27:16.080 his children and he
00:27:17.160 gets to see a little
00:27:17.940 bit of a glimpse of
00:27:18.640 the future where his
00:27:19.480 children will be
00:27:20.400 rulers.
00:27:21.520 going on and him
00:27:23.600 being carried off by
00:27:24.420 the Valkyrie at the
00:27:25.680 end.
00:27:25.900 I found all of that
00:27:26.900 very satisfying.
00:27:28.440 I can understand if
00:27:29.040 it didn't hit you
00:27:29.560 emotionally but maybe
00:27:31.680 it's just because it
00:27:33.020 was so heavy metal
00:27:34.000 there was a kind of
00:27:35.220 fist-pumping
00:27:36.160 awesomeness to it
00:27:37.440 really appealed to me.
00:27:39.480 I don't want people to
00:27:40.440 think that I didn't
00:27:41.140 like the Northmen.
00:27:42.020 The action scenes in
00:27:43.220 it are my favourite
00:27:44.460 out of all of
00:27:45.280 Eggers' sort of more
00:27:46.760 involved things.
00:27:48.820 It's got, I mean,
00:27:49.940 again, the raid scene
00:27:50.920 alone has some
00:27:51.580 awesome shots in it
00:27:52.440 even if it is brutal.
00:27:53.760 So I would rank them.
00:27:55.320 I'd go Lighthouse
00:27:56.220 number one as well.
00:27:57.280 Number two, I'd go
00:27:58.260 the Northmen.
00:27:59.480 Number three, I'd go
00:28:01.000 Nosferatu.
00:28:02.360 And then number four,
00:28:03.200 I'd go the Witch.
00:28:04.160 I really respect the
00:28:05.800 Witch as a tense,
00:28:07.720 period-accurate experience.
00:28:10.060 It just does not have,
00:28:11.840 maybe it's because of
00:28:13.300 the strange dialect
00:28:14.180 that they're using.
00:28:15.060 the character's dynamics
00:28:18.260 don't have the same
00:28:19.800 emotional impact to me
00:28:21.340 as the other films
00:28:22.400 that he's made.
00:28:22.860 It's still an excellent
00:28:24.040 film, still like an
00:28:24.780 8.5 out of 10 for me,
00:28:26.600 and that's my least
00:28:27.480 favourite of his,
00:28:28.740 but I prefer the other
00:28:30.480 ones that he's done
00:28:31.220 since then.
00:28:31.700 I think because I had
00:28:32.440 no problem understanding
00:28:33.580 the dialogue,
00:28:35.060 because I basically
00:28:36.400 grew up reading old
00:28:37.780 literature, like the
00:28:38.960 19th century is
00:28:39.900 basically modern to me
00:28:40.960 by the time I was a
00:28:44.220 teenager.
00:28:44.440 Where have you put
00:28:44.860 your fedora, Josh?
00:28:46.040 I'm sure you need to
00:28:46.940 tip it somewhere,
00:28:47.720 don't you?
00:28:48.220 It's not a fedora
00:28:49.240 tipping moment.
00:28:50.080 It's credit to my
00:28:50.920 parents.
00:28:51.480 I didn't do this.
00:28:53.100 It was just that they
00:28:54.820 were trying to introduce
00:28:55.600 me to some higher
00:28:57.380 culture.
00:28:58.000 Classics.
00:28:59.220 Yeah.
00:29:00.080 But it's one of those
00:29:01.160 ones that is
00:29:01.860 inaccessible, and I've
00:29:02.840 watched it with people
00:29:03.620 who speak English as a
00:29:05.880 second language, and
00:29:07.100 they really struggled.
00:29:08.060 They had to have
00:29:08.600 subtitles on.
00:29:10.640 Yeah.
00:29:11.340 It also sets up one of
00:29:12.900 my new favourite,
00:29:13.760 Robert Eggers' character
00:29:15.580 trope, which is that in
00:29:17.200 every film of his,
00:29:18.320 except for The
00:29:20.200 Lighthouse, because
00:29:20.980 there are no children
00:29:21.840 in it, there is brutal
00:29:24.120 murdering child scenes.
00:29:27.180 Children die brutally in
00:29:28.860 almost all of his films.
00:29:30.500 There are three things
00:29:31.640 you need to know about
00:29:32.320 Robert Eggers.
00:29:33.160 His films will include
00:29:34.380 almost autistically
00:29:36.840 researched portrayals of
00:29:39.520 history, child murder,
00:29:41.820 and tits.
00:29:44.760 And you ask us why he's
00:29:46.180 our favourite.
00:29:46.680 Also, basically, no
00:29:47.860 diversity.
00:29:48.900 That's true, yeah.
00:29:49.940 Whatsoever.
00:29:50.740 I believe in Nosferatu,
00:29:53.120 there is one diverse man
00:29:55.240 who shows up for a grand
00:29:56.480 total of two shots,
00:29:58.380 lasting in total about
00:30:00.040 15 seconds, which I found
00:30:02.940 weird, but did not take me
00:30:04.280 out of the film at all.
00:30:05.260 And outside of that, the
00:30:06.220 most diversity is there's a
00:30:07.360 bunch of filthy gypsies in it,
00:30:09.700 which is accurate to the
00:30:11.100 original story as well.
00:30:12.720 Although, to be fair,
00:30:13.940 they're actually correct in
00:30:15.660 what they're doing in the
00:30:16.600 film.
00:30:17.020 If you would like to see
00:30:17.800 the full version of this
00:30:18.860 premium video, please head
00:30:20.200 over to lotuseaters.com and
00:30:21.980 subscribe to gain full
00:30:23.060 access to all of our
00:30:24.280 premium content.
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