The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Brokenomics ｜ Left Wing Lies and Civil War with Ed Dutton

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Brokonomics.

00:00:29.280 Now, yesterday, Ed Dutton got in touch to say that he'd done some research.

00:00:33.660 Now, that was all I needed to hear before inviting him on,

00:00:36.840 because I've read some of his books.

00:00:38.680 And whenever Ed does research, I kind of want to know what's going on.

00:00:42.380 So I'm coming into this a bit blind.

00:00:44.520 Don't know what it's about.

00:00:45.380 Hopefully it's not too spicy.

00:00:47.340 But Ed, thank you for joining us.

00:00:50.080 Thank you for having me.

00:00:51.220 I hope that you're enjoying the beginnings of summer.

00:00:55.500 Yeah, it's an interesting anomaly.

00:00:58.600 and it's an anomaly that for some reason i can't seem to get the mainstream newspapers

00:01:02.760 um interested in um and it's with regard to our former deputy prime minister and perhaps future

00:01:09.300 chancellor of the exchequer angela rayner well also possibly future prime minister i mean she

00:01:15.260 is the favorite amongst the back benches at the moment is that right well yes she's she said some

00:01:20.480 interesting things about her childhood she by all according to her she had an extremely dysfunctional

00:01:26.480 and difficult childhood. In an interview, she said, we weren't wanted. I didn't feel I'd ever

00:01:31.600 been loved. She said that her mother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Her mother tried to commit

00:01:37.960 suicide when Angela was 13 by slashing her wrists. And Angela was her legal carer. And in an article

00:01:45.740 in iNews in 2016, entitled Labour MP Angela Rayner's inspirational mother, she said that her

00:01:53.200 mother was one of 12 children um which is a lot of children well i know all of that i mean i would

00:02:01.020 agree but that sounds like a horrific upbringing well yeah it doesn't sound very nice but it i

00:02:07.020 wonder well if it's quite as unnice as is this an anomaly she says her mother is one of 12 children

00:02:14.540 in an interview in high news in 2016 an interview in spectator uh australia in 2021 called i'll eat

00:02:22.200 you alive she said that two of her siblings her mother's siblings were given away to christian

00:02:28.560 neighbors and never seen again um and that her mother left school at 12 couldn't read and would

00:02:36.280 just follow the fairground so that's what she said her mother was one of 12 children and two of those

00:02:43.820 children indeed because they were so hot up were given away to christian neighbors and never seen

00:02:49.420 again that's what she said well hang on a minute um if if if if two of her mother's siblings were

00:02:57.840 given away to neighbors how bloody big are these houses are these like landed estates because

00:03:03.500 presumably you'd see them every time you walked out your front door and they were coming home or

00:03:07.360 something this is this is odd but then she said other things that are odd as well which no one's

00:03:11.600 questioned such as that the mother used to feed them dog food because she couldn't read and thought

00:03:16.200 it was braising steak now i would but hang on surely then you go on the pictures and the pitch

00:03:22.100 has a right right right so that's a bit odd isn't it did she think that she was eating dog

00:03:26.020 i don't know right but no one no one questioned this or that the interviewer didn't question this

00:03:32.980 um or that she said things like she had to go to her grandmother's once a week for a bath

00:03:37.960 implicitly because they couldn't have afford to have a bath that where she did with her mum 0.99

00:03:42.740 but then she said oh i used to bathe my mother all the time she used to have to bathe her mother

00:03:47.180 because her mother was so depressed and couldn't do it for herself it's very odd some of the things

00:03:51.180 she says and nobody questions it perhaps because she's a woman or perhaps because they don't want

00:03:55.920 to seem like a snob i don't know but the weirdest thing was saying that she was one of 12 the mother

00:04:02.280 was one of 12 her mother was one of 12 siblings and i thought well that's testable but is that true

00:04:08.780 And I got quite into genealogy and I've traced my family tree and my family trees and various other people's family trees, things like this.

00:04:16.620 And so I know how to I know where the records are and how you can check these things.

00:04:19.700 And so I looked into it. And what I found was that her mother, Lynn Dean, was born in Stockport in 1960.

00:04:28.260 The mother had an illegitimate child, Darren Dean, in 1975.

00:04:32.920 in 1977 she married Martin Bowen that's Angela's father in Stockport but for some reason on the

00:04:42.200 marriage certificate she puts her name down as Ingram now her mother hasn't married in Ingram

00:04:48.840 she's not Ingram but apropos of nothing she puts her surname on her marriage certificate

00:04:54.840 is ingram this is weird now she has angela in 1980 in chester and ellsmore port and she has

00:05:04.660 a brother michael joseph in 1983 in chester and ellsmore port this lynn dean i tracked down her

00:05:12.080 mother her mother is evelyn dean born stockport 1941 marries a brian uh even in delves sorry

00:05:20.080 1941 marries a brian dean 1959 stockport has lynn 1960 and a brother andrew 1968

00:05:29.020 and that's it so i can't find any evidence of what angela said that her mother had

00:05:37.380 well that's not 12 11 siblings her mother had one sibling and that is this person called andrew

00:05:45.320 born in 1968. Now, what might be going on? And remember that this woman, this Lin, got married

00:05:53.980 at 17. So she's out of the house by 17. Did her mother remarry? Well, I find an Evelyn Dean 0.98

00:06:02.040 who remarries in Halifax in 1971. So that's nowhere near. That's nowhere near Cheshire.

00:06:09.580 um and but this is the one born in Bradford in 1954 I can't find any evidence of illegitimate

00:06:17.180 children she might have had because if she'd had illegitimate children after 1968 they would have

00:06:22.200 been under the name Dean or if she reverted to her maiden name Delves and which you didn't do in

00:06:28.660 those days anyway they're not so then I tracked down did the father for some reason that makes

00:06:35.860 no sense come with a whole brood of children from a previous marriage well i looked into the uh into

00:06:42.700 the into the brian deans you have in stockport one born and died in 1939 one who marries a janet

00:06:50.180 brindley in 1970 but he's i've tracked them down he was still alive in 2008 um and so he's clearly

00:07:00.060 the one that was born in 1947 and then you have another one born in 1932 and dies in 1988 and that

00:07:07.820 seems to be uh Angela's grandmother this Brian grandfather this um this Brian Dean and it says

00:07:15.000 on his death certificate that he was born in 1932 which makes sense then because he gets married in

00:07:20.880 1959. So I don't know what's going on. Is it that she has 10 siblings whose births weren't registered?

00:07:31.420 Is it that she has 10 siblings that were born abroad, which seems unlikely considering the

00:07:38.680 poverty they were supposedly brought up in? Is it that Brian came with a series of illegitimate

00:07:44.900 children that were all registered under his mother's under his um uh under the mother's

00:07:50.460 surname um and if that's the case then like he'd have to have started at about the age of 16 for

00:07:57.780 there to be enough by the time he got married so none of these things make any sense it's a bizarre

00:08:04.860 anomaly that i can't make head nor tail off and i thought of part oh well maybe there's a kind of

00:08:09.480 weird blended nature to her family but if you look into the records that's that doesn't that

00:08:14.680 doesn't fit so something's off well a simple explanation would be that she's lying

00:08:22.460 yes that would i couldn't possibly comment but that but or that she was told this in good faith

00:08:35.420 by her mother and the mother during one of those barbs perhaps um and and she never thought to

00:08:43.240 question it but whatever is the case the so the the i don't want to accuse people of lie we have

00:08:49.200 certain libel laws in this country but um the it doesn't it's it's an anomaly that doesn't make

00:08:55.220 sense and i can't come up with a way of making it make sense because if they were illegitimate

00:08:59.280 children then i would find them in the records under the surname dean a mother's maiden mother's

00:09:05.080 maiden name delves um and i don't um if there were children and that were registered and they

00:09:11.520 were illegitimate but they were registered under the father's name i would find mother's maiden

00:09:15.380 name dean but i can't find any evidence of the other than that the mother was one of two so

00:09:22.820 it's very very strange that's all i wanted to say yeah i mean in a prior era you kind of expect

00:09:31.760 journalists to perhaps ask a follow-on question to some of this stuff but we kind of entered an

00:09:36.620 era where the politics where the journalists basically just either reading out corporate

00:09:40.700 press releases or accepting politicians entirely at their word so yes i mean i mean we get this a

00:09:50.880 lot from labour politicians don't we we get the sort of rachel reeves who just makes up whole

00:09:54.620 sections of her cv uh and then it is exposed sometime later but it sounds like you might

00:09:59.820 of exposed that that was it uh angela rayner's origin story is um questionable oh but it's and

00:10:09.960 it's not it's there's other things i would i would have thought this thing about eating dog food is

00:10:13.920 just so obviously unlikely it's so obviously improbable that anybody even if they could read

00:10:20.820 would think that dog food uh in the dog food section of a shop um was was anything other than

00:10:28.300 dog food and so it it's it's it's most it's most unlikely and this idea yes and and also as somebody

00:10:37.040 who has small children even if you give them um even if they like fish fingers and you give them

00:10:44.560 fish fingers um of a different type you give them hate fish fingers as opposed to codfish fingers

00:10:50.880 which is the ones they like they kick up an enormous stink and and yet she tells it in a way

00:10:56.220 that on multiple occasions she was fed dog food

00:10:59.520 and we're expected to believe that young children

00:11:01.420 did not kick up a stink about this.

00:11:04.180 When, you know, as anyone with small children knows,

00:11:06.620 that is not how small children work.

00:11:09.880 No, precisely.

00:11:10.880 They will react with disgust.

00:11:13.280 I mean, I've just put in now just to check something.

00:11:15.200 So between 1968 and 1978,

00:11:17.160 there's a mother's maiden named Delves in Stockport.

00:11:21.140 People with different names,

00:11:23.100 presumably it would be a number of people

00:11:24.880 with the same surname.

00:11:26.220 By any way of trying to come up with an explanation for this,

00:11:29.700 other than the one you did, it just doesn't fit.

00:11:33.920 Well, I suppose there's the unregistered bit.

00:11:36.640 So maybe, you know, she only registered the two children

00:11:40.380 and all the other children she just had in her living room

00:11:43.320 and just never got around to registering them and they just, something.

00:11:47.360 That's the only explanation I can think of.

00:11:49.440 But if that's the case, then she's committed 10 different criminal offences

00:11:53.280 and those those children don't have birth certificates um they don't legally exist

00:11:59.980 so i'm interested to know how they're getting along um it it it's just bizarre i mean even

00:12:08.220 to say that your mother is one of 12 is pretty unlikely it's unlikely if someone says they're

00:12:13.220 one of 12 well it's worth thinking about are they and and and so it's um i i just think it's

00:12:19.500 an example of of them um giving her a different standard of what is exceptional to say it's as

00:12:26.280 though angela is allowed to exaggerate things angela is allowed to tell fibs angela is possibly

00:12:31.940 angela she's allowed to exaggerate because if we question her narrative being from a terrible

00:12:37.820 terrible terrible background then this is mean and unkind and we look unkind is there some sort

00:12:43.980 of psychological mechanism where you want to do performative because what she's what you're kind

00:12:48.760 of implying that she's doing she's she's applying this performative i am more common than you can

00:12:54.500 possibly imagine type shtick it's like you wouldn't you wouldn't believe how working class i am and

00:13:00.580 how working class my origin are you wouldn't believe what a victim i am yes yes yeah there

00:13:07.620 are there are but we have to be very i'm not making i don't i want to get absolutely clear

00:13:12.340 i'm not saying this is true of angela rayner um because i'm a you'd have to be a doctor and you'd

00:13:18.220 have to see her but in general there are certain um kinds of personality such as vulnerable

00:13:25.400 narcissism or uh borderline personality uh yeah it has to be disorders that are associated with

00:13:34.420 um with vulnerability signaling and with exaggerating the extent of your vulnerability

00:13:42.340 in order to gain sympathy and control and if you look at michael ashcroft's biography of her which

00:13:50.540 is called red queen um uh those that know her talk about her as being manipulative talk about her as

00:13:59.080 being haughty talk about her as being temperamental talk about her as being insecure this thing that

00:14:06.000 she said about not being loved is completely consistent with the kind of thing that these

00:14:10.740 kinds of women will say and so it's it's a means of um of supercharging a social bond with somebody

00:14:20.060 else and making them care for you by uh but by get by talking about by signaling inaccurately or in

00:14:28.280 exaggerated form how vulnerable you are yes now i think you're right we don't want to just talk

00:14:34.440 about and we're not talking about angela here but just just ask you a question about in general

00:14:40.960 women or individuals who seek out a victim narrative who try and turbo charge victim

00:14:48.800 narratives who have bipolar personality disorder in general those kind of people what would be

00:14:56.560 the concerns about putting them in a position such as i don't know chancellor or prime minister

00:15:02.240 something like that is is is there any sort of incompatibility with people aggressively seeking

00:15:07.920 victimhood status and having a major office of state if they have if that seeking victimhood

00:15:16.360 is part of a broader pattern of of a personality disorder such as vulnerable narcissism or

00:15:23.660 borderline personality then um in the in the case of borderline personality these people will

00:15:29.900 fear uh that will have a constant sense of emptiness and will act in a very insecure way

00:15:36.460 accordingly they will deeply fear abandonment and will act perhaps in an unwise way uh and

00:15:44.300 accordingly they will have problems with emotional regulation so that's obviously a very serious

00:15:50.160 problem if you're in a position of power under severe stress they can become paranoid and go

00:15:56.320 into what's called borderline schizophrenia where they think that everybody is out to get them

00:16:02.380 they can engage in acts of self-harm or or self-sabotage which if you are symbolizing the

00:16:10.660 nation you could maybe even engage in an act of self-sabotage in relation to the nation

00:16:14.920 they will have tremendous problems controlling anger and so this again you can see is a is a is

00:16:22.100 an issue. So they will be very, very difficult to work with. And in fact, there is a guy,

00:16:30.280 I'm just finishing a book about this at the moment, actually, I'm finishing a book at the

00:16:33.440 moment about women with borderline personality and positions of power. And some people have 1.00

00:16:38.520 argued that Margaret Thatcher reflects quite a few of these traits. So she would surround herself

00:16:44.360 with admiring, fawning men, which would, whatever insecurity she might have had about herself,

00:16:50.780 that you know not feeling good enough or whatever which is consistent with this

00:16:55.220 disorder then she would surround herself with quite unpleasant men a lot of the time

00:17:00.840 that would direct her in in difficult ways she would she would become she would deal with

00:17:05.560 problems by becoming very black and white and very angry she would treat opponents like jeffrey

00:17:09.740 howe very very badly it would cause you to sort of make mistakes if you if you had that kind of

00:17:18.840 everybody speculates on donald trump having narcissistic grandiose narcissistic personality

00:17:24.260 disorder well there are good things about that i.e that you you you're very confident uh you ooze

00:17:30.440 confidence and so for people you make a kind of cold world feel warm again you're likely to be

00:17:35.600 very decisive um that there's um you're likely to take risks in a way that somebody else wouldn't

00:17:42.240 and cut through the crap there's all kinds of positive things about it but there's negative

00:17:45.580 things about it such as if something really bad happens to you that sort of punctures your sense 0.97

00:17:50.240 that you're superior then you can you can uh reflect in narcissistic rage in going absolutely

00:17:57.060 crazy in sabotaging things um and and obviously the straits of hormones for example perhaps yes

00:18:04.460 and you and you can be very bad at taking advice because you're certain that you're correct and so

00:18:09.100 you might do unwise things there certainly are a lot of studies um that have come to the conclusion

00:18:15.060 that people that are involved in politics

00:18:16.780 are elevated in narcissistic traits

00:18:19.380 with basically low agreeableness.

00:18:24.240 Because in order to arise top of politics,

00:18:27.560 you've got to be a bit cutthroat.

00:18:29.060 You've got to be a bit selfish.

00:18:31.340 You've got to be highly confident and so on.

00:18:35.260 And that charismatic-type politicians,

00:18:37.780 as opposed to bureaucratic John Major-type ones,

00:18:40.580 the charismatic-type politicians

00:18:41.920 are higher in those kinds of traits.

00:18:45.060 so it seems to me perfectly real and there was analysis by a guy called felix post which looked

00:18:51.480 at very very important political figures and found they were all elevated in various kinds

00:18:55.180 of psychology and particularly things like narcissistic personality and so there's obviously

00:19:01.320 good sides to having that disorder and being in a position of power and there's bad sides to it

00:19:06.540 the bad sides will be arrogance entitlement not caring about the detail thinking you're about

00:19:12.100 everything thinking you can get away with things when you can't um all of those kinds of things

00:19:16.800 that seem to bring down the charismatic type politician and i think thatcher who we can talk

00:19:21.960 about frieda because she's dead is is is a good example that someone like that probably was quite 1.00

00:19:27.340 narcissistic anyway she was very interested in fashion and what she looked like her two main 0.90

00:19:32.760 interests were politics and fashion um she had a much older husband um that's consistent with 0.99

00:19:39.560 borderline personality because women in general are sexually attracted to age because it gives 1.00

00:19:43.660 them security and resources that it's associated with that and so this is going to be turbocharged

00:19:49.240 with a borderline who fears abandonment and wants to be looked after she's of course can be attracted

00:19:53.680 to much older men um she uh she didn't get on with she had very few female friends and didn't

00:19:59.180 get on with women that's often a factor with borderline personality they tend to have male

00:20:03.060 friends because they burn their way through the village in the words of my friend dr hannah spear 0.99

00:20:08.160 the women realise

00:20:10.740 these people are out to get their men 1.00

00:20:12.280 and are devious and manipulative and they don't want to be their friends 0.97

00:20:14.540 and they're anyway

00:20:16.480 all about getting male attention and so on

00:20:18.340 So you're not suggesting that Margaret Thatcher

00:20:20.360 was putting it about, are you?

00:20:22.760 Well, if you read, there's a book

00:20:23.980 what's the name of the book? I think it's called

00:20:26.280 Incidental Feminist 0.95

00:20:27.700 which presents a lot of evidence that she had 0.94

00:20:30.480 at least one affair when she was an MP

00:20:32.600 even though she was married

00:20:34.160 with a guy called Humphrey Atkins

00:20:36.960 um so again that that that would that would be having an affair is another aspect by the way

00:20:44.780 of borderline is is impulsive risk-taking and you you could argue that that is that is not good in

00:20:51.080 government impulsive risk-taking and one of the ways in which they'll take risks will be things

00:20:55.400 like having affairs so with all the men so so you know so it's it's it there are there are

00:21:02.400 definite positive size these kinds of people personality is um associated with being creative

00:21:07.900 uh because you're experiencing feelings very intensely and you have a need to

00:21:12.720 sort of with with it's associated with what's called identity disturbance there's nine traits

00:21:18.520 and i find it very difficult to remember them all off the top of my head um i've now gone through

00:21:22.660 all nine um identity disturbance which is that you you feel so insecure and so unhappy um that

00:21:28.840 when something bad happens to you rather than say oh well a bad thing's happened and i'll make this

00:21:34.340 change you think well i'm fundamentally bad i must change myself so one of the markers of this

00:21:39.460 condition is a dramatic change in identity um there's no evidence that mrs thatcher underwent

00:21:46.640 that but you only have to have half of the traits to be diagnosed but one of the things if a person

00:21:52.160 has moved most obviously from being on the extreme left to being on the extreme right

00:21:57.820 um that or from being a leftist to being a traditional catholic or something yes um that

00:22:05.780 would obviously be an example of identity disturbance and um and having identity

00:22:10.300 disturbance is probably not good if you're in a position of influence well i mean all of those

00:22:14.800 things that you listed you know dealing with stress and abandonment i mean that's not really

00:22:19.520 the person you want dealing with the bond market especially at a time like this so no um ed that

00:22:25.480 that is fascinating thank you very much for bringing us to that um uh hopefully this is

00:22:29.880 something will start to get picked up so you you mentioned that you're sort of putting this out

00:22:34.080 there on a number of outlets so so hopefully this worms its way back into somebody who's actually

00:22:38.900 allowed into press conferences with angela rayner and um a few more questions because if she's just

00:22:45.080 making stuff up wholesale um it would kind of be good to know that she has this i put it to

00:22:51.220 somebody that works for the daily mail and he thought it was a brilliant idea and he said god

00:22:55.580 if it's true it'll end her career and and he took it to the sub-editor and the sub-editor said no

00:23:00.980 i'm not interested huh it's very strange right okay uh yes that's a kind of state of modern

00:23:09.220 version um there was also something else i wanted to ask you about ed because um we we got our lads

00:23:16.640 in makerfield this week and so so this this recording is probably gonna have to go out next

00:23:20.500 week uh but at the time of recording um it is the morning well it is the morning after the the the

00:23:29.100 night before in belfast so two nights ago from our perspective a man was was almost beheaded

00:23:35.000 in Belfast and last night there were massive protests but the protests were very different

00:23:41.680 in Belfast to how they were in Southampton. In Southampton the protesters were almost

00:23:46.360 performing to the state. They sought out the police, they went to the police and they protested

00:23:53.700 in front of them and they did all sorts of performative things like taking the knee and

00:23:57.320 saying well you knelt for George Floyd why aren't you kneeling for us but they were essentially

00:24:01.840 seeking out the police and the ones who did do things that got them in trouble um they walked

00:24:07.940 around without masks they got themselves filmed they basically handed the state a prosecution

00:24:13.100 file through the and they did the evidence collection for them in belfast it was very

00:24:17.900 very different um no live streaming was allowed press wasn't allowed near they covered their

00:24:24.040 faces they left their phones at home they did not seek out the police what they did is they

00:24:27.960 is they sought out where the police were not they went straight to hmo and and uh immigrant

00:24:33.160 businesses and they targeted them you know where whatever it was a petrol bomb rocks through the

00:24:38.280 windows and then they vanished again it was very very targeted and it was it was clearly not a

00:24:43.260 performance to the state it was bypassing the state now the reason i want to ask you about

00:24:48.720 this is because you you came on our general election stream uh at the time of the last

00:24:53.640 general election when when starmer got into power and you were the first person i i heard made this

00:24:59.520 point i've heard other people make it since but you were the first you got it straight away

00:25:02.920 and you said this is the beginning of secretarian politics in britain because we just had something

00:25:08.000 like 15 gaza mps elected you know member for gaza central member of gaza west or whatever it was but

00:25:15.060 you had all these gaza mps so you've obviously seen and you saw something very early with the

00:25:21.060 direction that this country is going in and it just feels to me that belfast last night

00:25:25.380 was a prime example of how we are moving past the political and into the secretarian i wondered if

00:25:31.340 this is something you've been thinking about as well yeah i have been thinking about it today

00:25:35.020 i've been thinking that i wrote an article on it for my sub stack actually jolly heresy okay um

00:25:39.760 i was thinking that in many ways northern ireland is the worst place for a sudanese person to attempt

00:25:48.520 to behead and frankly he had probably blinded um i believe he is yes this this poor chap ogilvy

00:25:54.640 uh in uh in north belfast and it's the worst place because as you say there's something um

00:26:03.700 not that i am disparaging the british protesters in southampton um and i'm sure there was raw

00:26:11.100 emotion there and and and so on and people were very angry and it was appalling what happened

00:26:16.160 but um what they were doing was protesting against the police and saying look this is unfair there's

00:26:25.040 two-tier policing this is wrong what the people in northern ireland were doing was so completely

00:26:30.780 different it was it was very much we are we this person is part of the community of foreigners 1.00

00:26:38.340 these foreigners are a problem in belfast and we will therefore drive them out 0.99

00:26:45.680 and that's and that's a and that's a completely different way of of seeing things of what you're 1.00

00:26:52.240 doing what what one what one group is doing is saying okay we accept foreigners are here we just

00:26:57.160 we just want them to be treated equally to us another group is in a country where most people

00:27:02.800 are still white um is is saying no these foreigners have come it's causing problems they are to leave

00:27:09.180 if you enjoyed that content and of course you did because you are a smart person then why don't you 0.64

00:27:14.880 go over to lotus eaters.com where you can watch the whole episode for as little as five pounds a

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The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - June 23, 2026

PREVIEW： Brokenomics ｜ Left Wing Lies and Civil War with Ed Dutton

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