The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - June 23, 2026


PREVIEW： Brokenomics ｜ Left Wing Lies and Civil War with Ed Dutton


Episode Stats


Length

27 minutes

Words per minute

168.31

Word count

4,619

Sentence count

55

Harmful content

Misogyny

11

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Brokonomics, I speak to Ed Dutton about a woman who says her mother was one of 12 children. Is it true? Do you know who she is and what happened to her family life?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Brokonomics.
00:00:29.280 Now, yesterday, Ed Dutton got in touch to say that he'd done some research.
00:00:33.660 Now, that was all I needed to hear before inviting him on,
00:00:36.840 because I've read some of his books.
00:00:38.680 And whenever Ed does research, I kind of want to know what's going on.
00:00:42.380 So I'm coming into this a bit blind.
00:00:44.520 Don't know what it's about.
00:00:45.380 Hopefully it's not too spicy.
00:00:47.340 But Ed, thank you for joining us.
00:00:50.080 Thank you for having me.
00:00:51.220 I hope that you're enjoying the beginnings of summer.
00:00:55.500 Yeah, it's an interesting anomaly.
00:00:58.600 and it's an anomaly that for some reason i can't seem to get the mainstream newspapers
00:01:02.760 um interested in um and it's with regard to our former deputy prime minister and perhaps future
00:01:09.300 chancellor of the exchequer angela rayner well also possibly future prime minister i mean she
00:01:15.260 is the favorite amongst the back benches at the moment is that right well yes she's she said some
00:01:20.480 interesting things about her childhood she by all according to her she had an extremely dysfunctional
00:01:26.480 and difficult childhood. In an interview, she said, we weren't wanted. I didn't feel I'd ever
00:01:31.600 been loved. She said that her mother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Her mother tried to commit
00:01:37.960 suicide when Angela was 13 by slashing her wrists. And Angela was her legal carer. And in an article
00:01:45.740 in iNews in 2016, entitled Labour MP Angela Rayner's inspirational mother, she said that her
00:01:53.200 mother was one of 12 children um which is a lot of children well i know all of that i mean i would
00:02:01.020 agree but that sounds like a horrific upbringing well yeah it doesn't sound very nice but it i
00:02:07.020 wonder well if it's quite as unnice as is this an anomaly she says her mother is one of 12 children
00:02:14.540 in an interview in high news in 2016 an interview in spectator uh australia in 2021 called i'll eat
00:02:22.200 you alive she said that two of her siblings her mother's siblings were given away to christian
00:02:28.560 neighbors and never seen again um and that her mother left school at 12 couldn't read and would
00:02:36.280 just follow the fairground so that's what she said her mother was one of 12 children and two of those
00:02:43.820 children indeed because they were so hot up were given away to christian neighbors and never seen
00:02:49.420 again that's what she said well hang on a minute um if if if if two of her mother's siblings were
00:02:57.840 given away to neighbors how bloody big are these houses are these like landed estates because
00:03:03.500 presumably you'd see them every time you walked out your front door and they were coming home or
00:03:07.360 something this is this is odd but then she said other things that are odd as well which no one's
00:03:11.600 questioned such as that the mother used to feed them dog food because she couldn't read and thought
00:03:16.200 it was braising steak now i would but hang on surely then you go on the pictures and the pitch
00:03:22.100 has a right right right so that's a bit odd isn't it did she think that she was eating dog
00:03:26.020 i don't know right but no one no one questioned this or that the interviewer didn't question this
00:03:32.980 um or that she said things like she had to go to her grandmother's once a week for a bath
00:03:37.960 implicitly because they couldn't have afford to have a bath that where she did with her mum 0.99
00:03:42.740 but then she said oh i used to bathe my mother all the time she used to have to bathe her mother
00:03:47.180 because her mother was so depressed and couldn't do it for herself it's very odd some of the things
00:03:51.180 she says and nobody questions it perhaps because she's a woman or perhaps because they don't want
00:03:55.920 to seem like a snob i don't know but the weirdest thing was saying that she was one of 12 the mother
00:04:02.280 was one of 12 her mother was one of 12 siblings and i thought well that's testable but is that true
00:04:08.780 And I got quite into genealogy and I've traced my family tree and my family trees and various other people's family trees, things like this.
00:04:16.620 And so I know how to I know where the records are and how you can check these things.
00:04:19.700 And so I looked into it. And what I found was that her mother, Lynn Dean, was born in Stockport in 1960.
00:04:28.260 The mother had an illegitimate child, Darren Dean, in 1975.
00:04:32.920 in 1977 she married Martin Bowen that's Angela's father in Stockport but for some reason on the
00:04:42.200 marriage certificate she puts her name down as Ingram now her mother hasn't married in Ingram
00:04:48.840 she's not Ingram but apropos of nothing she puts her surname on her marriage certificate
00:04:54.840 is ingram this is weird now she has angela in 1980 in chester and ellsmore port and she has
00:05:04.660 a brother michael joseph in 1983 in chester and ellsmore port this lynn dean i tracked down her
00:05:12.080 mother her mother is evelyn dean born stockport 1941 marries a brian uh even in delves sorry
00:05:20.080 1941 marries a brian dean 1959 stockport has lynn 1960 and a brother andrew 1968
00:05:29.020 and that's it so i can't find any evidence of what angela said that her mother had
00:05:37.380 well that's not 12 11 siblings her mother had one sibling and that is this person called andrew
00:05:45.320 born in 1968. Now, what might be going on? And remember that this woman, this Lin, got married
00:05:53.980 at 17. So she's out of the house by 17. Did her mother remarry? Well, I find an Evelyn Dean 0.98
00:06:02.040 who remarries in Halifax in 1971. So that's nowhere near. That's nowhere near Cheshire.
00:06:09.580 um and but this is the one born in Bradford in 1954 I can't find any evidence of illegitimate
00:06:17.180 children she might have had because if she'd had illegitimate children after 1968 they would have
00:06:22.200 been under the name Dean or if she reverted to her maiden name Delves and which you didn't do in
00:06:28.660 those days anyway they're not so then I tracked down did the father for some reason that makes
00:06:35.860 no sense come with a whole brood of children from a previous marriage well i looked into the uh into
00:06:42.700 the into the brian deans you have in stockport one born and died in 1939 one who marries a janet
00:06:50.180 brindley in 1970 but he's i've tracked them down he was still alive in 2008 um and so he's clearly
00:07:00.060 the one that was born in 1947 and then you have another one born in 1932 and dies in 1988 and that
00:07:07.820 seems to be uh Angela's grandmother this Brian grandfather this um this Brian Dean and it says
00:07:15.000 on his death certificate that he was born in 1932 which makes sense then because he gets married in
00:07:20.880 1959. So I don't know what's going on. Is it that she has 10 siblings whose births weren't registered?
00:07:31.420 Is it that she has 10 siblings that were born abroad, which seems unlikely considering the
00:07:38.680 poverty they were supposedly brought up in? Is it that Brian came with a series of illegitimate
00:07:44.900 children that were all registered under his mother's under his um uh under the mother's
00:07:50.460 surname um and if that's the case then like he'd have to have started at about the age of 16 for
00:07:57.780 there to be enough by the time he got married so none of these things make any sense it's a bizarre
00:08:04.860 anomaly that i can't make head nor tail off and i thought of part oh well maybe there's a kind of
00:08:09.480 weird blended nature to her family but if you look into the records that's that doesn't that
00:08:14.680 doesn't fit so something's off well a simple explanation would be that she's lying
00:08:22.460 yes that would i couldn't possibly comment but that but or that she was told this in good faith
00:08:35.420 by her mother and the mother during one of those barbs perhaps um and and she never thought to
00:08:43.240 question it but whatever is the case the so the the i don't want to accuse people of lie we have
00:08:49.200 certain libel laws in this country but um the it doesn't it's it's an anomaly that doesn't make
00:08:55.220 sense and i can't come up with a way of making it make sense because if they were illegitimate
00:08:59.280 children then i would find them in the records under the surname dean a mother's maiden mother's
00:09:05.080 maiden name delves um and i don't um if there were children and that were registered and they
00:09:11.520 were illegitimate but they were registered under the father's name i would find mother's maiden
00:09:15.380 name dean but i can't find any evidence of the other than that the mother was one of two so
00:09:22.820 it's very very strange that's all i wanted to say yeah i mean in a prior era you kind of expect
00:09:31.760 journalists to perhaps ask a follow-on question to some of this stuff but we kind of entered an
00:09:36.620 era where the politics where the journalists basically just either reading out corporate
00:09:40.700 press releases or accepting politicians entirely at their word so yes i mean i mean we get this a
00:09:50.880 lot from labour politicians don't we we get the sort of rachel reeves who just makes up whole
00:09:54.620 sections of her cv uh and then it is exposed sometime later but it sounds like you might
00:09:59.820 of exposed that that was it uh angela rayner's origin story is um questionable oh but it's and
00:10:09.960 it's not it's there's other things i would i would have thought this thing about eating dog food is
00:10:13.920 just so obviously unlikely it's so obviously improbable that anybody even if they could read
00:10:20.820 would think that dog food uh in the dog food section of a shop um was was anything other than
00:10:28.300 dog food and so it it's it's it's most it's most unlikely and this idea yes and and also as somebody
00:10:37.040 who has small children even if you give them um even if they like fish fingers and you give them
00:10:44.560 fish fingers um of a different type you give them hate fish fingers as opposed to codfish fingers
00:10:50.880 which is the ones they like they kick up an enormous stink and and yet she tells it in a way
00:10:56.220 that on multiple occasions she was fed dog food
00:10:59.520 and we're expected to believe that young children
00:11:01.420 did not kick up a stink about this.
00:11:04.180 When, you know, as anyone with small children knows,
00:11:06.620 that is not how small children work.
00:11:09.880 No, precisely.
00:11:10.880 They will react with disgust.
00:11:13.280 I mean, I've just put in now just to check something.
00:11:15.200 So between 1968 and 1978,
00:11:17.160 there's a mother's maiden named Delves in Stockport.
00:11:21.140 People with different names,
00:11:23.100 presumably it would be a number of people
00:11:24.880 with the same surname.
00:11:26.220 By any way of trying to come up with an explanation for this,
00:11:29.700 other than the one you did, it just doesn't fit.
00:11:33.920 Well, I suppose there's the unregistered bit.
00:11:36.640 So maybe, you know, she only registered the two children
00:11:40.380 and all the other children she just had in her living room
00:11:43.320 and just never got around to registering them and they just, something.
00:11:47.360 That's the only explanation I can think of.
00:11:49.440 But if that's the case, then she's committed 10 different criminal offences
00:11:53.280 and those those children don't have birth certificates um they don't legally exist
00:11:59.980 so i'm interested to know how they're getting along um it it it's just bizarre i mean even
00:12:08.220 to say that your mother is one of 12 is pretty unlikely it's unlikely if someone says they're
00:12:13.220 one of 12 well it's worth thinking about are they and and and so it's um i i just think it's
00:12:19.500 an example of of them um giving her a different standard of what is exceptional to say it's as
00:12:26.280 though angela is allowed to exaggerate things angela is allowed to tell fibs angela is possibly
00:12:31.940 angela she's allowed to exaggerate because if we question her narrative being from a terrible
00:12:37.820 terrible terrible background then this is mean and unkind and we look unkind is there some sort
00:12:43.980 of psychological mechanism where you want to do performative because what she's what you're kind
00:12:48.760 of implying that she's doing she's she's applying this performative i am more common than you can
00:12:54.500 possibly imagine type shtick it's like you wouldn't you wouldn't believe how working class i am and
00:13:00.580 how working class my origin are you wouldn't believe what a victim i am yes yes yeah there
00:13:07.620 are there are but we have to be very i'm not making i don't i want to get absolutely clear
00:13:12.340 i'm not saying this is true of angela rayner um because i'm a you'd have to be a doctor and you'd
00:13:18.220 have to see her but in general there are certain um kinds of personality such as vulnerable
00:13:25.400 narcissism or uh borderline personality uh yeah it has to be disorders that are associated with
00:13:34.420 um with vulnerability signaling and with exaggerating the extent of your vulnerability
00:13:42.340 in order to gain sympathy and control and if you look at michael ashcroft's biography of her which
00:13:50.540 is called red queen um uh those that know her talk about her as being manipulative talk about her as
00:13:59.080 being haughty talk about her as being temperamental talk about her as being insecure this thing that
00:14:06.000 she said about not being loved is completely consistent with the kind of thing that these
00:14:10.740 kinds of women will say and so it's it's a means of um of supercharging a social bond with somebody
00:14:20.060 else and making them care for you by uh but by get by talking about by signaling inaccurately or in
00:14:28.280 exaggerated form how vulnerable you are yes now i think you're right we don't want to just talk
00:14:34.440 about and we're not talking about angela here but just just ask you a question about in general
00:14:40.960 women or individuals who seek out a victim narrative who try and turbo charge victim
00:14:48.800 narratives who have bipolar personality disorder in general those kind of people what would be
00:14:56.560 the concerns about putting them in a position such as i don't know chancellor or prime minister
00:15:02.240 something like that is is is there any sort of incompatibility with people aggressively seeking
00:15:07.920 victimhood status and having a major office of state if they have if that seeking victimhood
00:15:16.360 is part of a broader pattern of of a personality disorder such as vulnerable narcissism or
00:15:23.660 borderline personality then um in the in the case of borderline personality these people will
00:15:29.900 fear uh that will have a constant sense of emptiness and will act in a very insecure way
00:15:36.460 accordingly they will deeply fear abandonment and will act perhaps in an unwise way uh and
00:15:44.300 accordingly they will have problems with emotional regulation so that's obviously a very serious
00:15:50.160 problem if you're in a position of power under severe stress they can become paranoid and go
00:15:56.320 into what's called borderline schizophrenia where they think that everybody is out to get them
00:16:02.380 they can engage in acts of self-harm or or self-sabotage which if you are symbolizing the
00:16:10.660 nation you could maybe even engage in an act of self-sabotage in relation to the nation
00:16:14.920 they will have tremendous problems controlling anger and so this again you can see is a is a is
00:16:22.100 an issue. So they will be very, very difficult to work with. And in fact, there is a guy,
00:16:30.280 I'm just finishing a book about this at the moment, actually, I'm finishing a book at the
00:16:33.440 moment about women with borderline personality and positions of power. And some people have 1.00
00:16:38.520 argued that Margaret Thatcher reflects quite a few of these traits. So she would surround herself
00:16:44.360 with admiring, fawning men, which would, whatever insecurity she might have had about herself,
00:16:50.780 that you know not feeling good enough or whatever which is consistent with this
00:16:55.220 disorder then she would surround herself with quite unpleasant men a lot of the time
00:17:00.840 that would direct her in in difficult ways she would she would become she would deal with
00:17:05.560 problems by becoming very black and white and very angry she would treat opponents like jeffrey
00:17:09.740 howe very very badly it would cause you to sort of make mistakes if you if you had that kind of
00:17:18.840 everybody speculates on donald trump having narcissistic grandiose narcissistic personality
00:17:24.260 disorder well there are good things about that i.e that you you you're very confident uh you ooze
00:17:30.440 confidence and so for people you make a kind of cold world feel warm again you're likely to be
00:17:35.600 very decisive um that there's um you're likely to take risks in a way that somebody else wouldn't
00:17:42.240 and cut through the crap there's all kinds of positive things about it but there's negative
00:17:45.580 things about it such as if something really bad happens to you that sort of punctures your sense 0.97
00:17:50.240 that you're superior then you can you can uh reflect in narcissistic rage in going absolutely
00:17:57.060 crazy in sabotaging things um and and obviously the straits of hormones for example perhaps yes
00:18:04.460 and you and you can be very bad at taking advice because you're certain that you're correct and so
00:18:09.100 you might do unwise things there certainly are a lot of studies um that have come to the conclusion
00:18:15.060 that people that are involved in politics
00:18:16.780 are elevated in narcissistic traits
00:18:19.380 with basically low agreeableness.
00:18:24.240 Because in order to arise top of politics,
00:18:27.560 you've got to be a bit cutthroat.
00:18:29.060 You've got to be a bit selfish.
00:18:31.340 You've got to be highly confident and so on.
00:18:35.260 And that charismatic-type politicians,
00:18:37.780 as opposed to bureaucratic John Major-type ones,
00:18:40.580 the charismatic-type politicians
00:18:41.920 are higher in those kinds of traits.
00:18:45.060 so it seems to me perfectly real and there was analysis by a guy called felix post which looked
00:18:51.480 at very very important political figures and found they were all elevated in various kinds
00:18:55.180 of psychology and particularly things like narcissistic personality and so there's obviously
00:19:01.320 good sides to having that disorder and being in a position of power and there's bad sides to it
00:19:06.540 the bad sides will be arrogance entitlement not caring about the detail thinking you're about
00:19:12.100 everything thinking you can get away with things when you can't um all of those kinds of things
00:19:16.800 that seem to bring down the charismatic type politician and i think thatcher who we can talk
00:19:21.960 about frieda because she's dead is is is a good example that someone like that probably was quite 1.00
00:19:27.340 narcissistic anyway she was very interested in fashion and what she looked like her two main 0.90
00:19:32.760 interests were politics and fashion um she had a much older husband um that's consistent with 0.99
00:19:39.560 borderline personality because women in general are sexually attracted to age because it gives 1.00
00:19:43.660 them security and resources that it's associated with that and so this is going to be turbocharged
00:19:49.240 with a borderline who fears abandonment and wants to be looked after she's of course can be attracted
00:19:53.680 to much older men um she uh she didn't get on with she had very few female friends and didn't
00:19:59.180 get on with women that's often a factor with borderline personality they tend to have male
00:20:03.060 friends because they burn their way through the village in the words of my friend dr hannah spear 0.99
00:20:08.160 the women realise
00:20:10.740 these people are out to get their men 1.00
00:20:12.280 and are devious and manipulative and they don't want to be their friends 0.97
00:20:14.540 and they're anyway
00:20:16.480 all about getting male attention and so on
00:20:18.340 So you're not suggesting that Margaret Thatcher
00:20:20.360 was putting it about, are you?
00:20:22.760 Well, if you read, there's a book
00:20:23.980 what's the name of the book? I think it's called
00:20:26.280 Incidental Feminist 0.95
00:20:27.700 which presents a lot of evidence that she had 0.94
00:20:30.480 at least one affair when she was an MP
00:20:32.600 even though she was married
00:20:34.160 with a guy called Humphrey Atkins
00:20:36.960 um so again that that that would that would be having an affair is another aspect by the way
00:20:44.780 of borderline is is impulsive risk-taking and you you could argue that that is that is not good in
00:20:51.080 government impulsive risk-taking and one of the ways in which they'll take risks will be things
00:20:55.400 like having affairs so with all the men so so you know so it's it's it there are there are
00:21:02.400 definite positive size these kinds of people personality is um associated with being creative
00:21:07.900 uh because you're experiencing feelings very intensely and you have a need to
00:21:12.720 sort of with with it's associated with what's called identity disturbance there's nine traits
00:21:18.520 and i find it very difficult to remember them all off the top of my head um i've now gone through
00:21:22.660 all nine um identity disturbance which is that you you feel so insecure and so unhappy um that
00:21:28.840 when something bad happens to you rather than say oh well a bad thing's happened and i'll make this
00:21:34.340 change you think well i'm fundamentally bad i must change myself so one of the markers of this
00:21:39.460 condition is a dramatic change in identity um there's no evidence that mrs thatcher underwent
00:21:46.640 that but you only have to have half of the traits to be diagnosed but one of the things if a person
00:21:52.160 has moved most obviously from being on the extreme left to being on the extreme right
00:21:57.820 um that or from being a leftist to being a traditional catholic or something yes um that
00:22:05.780 would obviously be an example of identity disturbance and um and having identity
00:22:10.300 disturbance is probably not good if you're in a position of influence well i mean all of those
00:22:14.800 things that you listed you know dealing with stress and abandonment i mean that's not really
00:22:19.520 the person you want dealing with the bond market especially at a time like this so no um ed that
00:22:25.480 that is fascinating thank you very much for bringing us to that um uh hopefully this is
00:22:29.880 something will start to get picked up so you you mentioned that you're sort of putting this out
00:22:34.080 there on a number of outlets so so hopefully this worms its way back into somebody who's actually
00:22:38.900 allowed into press conferences with angela rayner and um a few more questions because if she's just
00:22:45.080 making stuff up wholesale um it would kind of be good to know that she has this i put it to
00:22:51.220 somebody that works for the daily mail and he thought it was a brilliant idea and he said god
00:22:55.580 if it's true it'll end her career and and he took it to the sub-editor and the sub-editor said no
00:23:00.980 i'm not interested huh it's very strange right okay uh yes that's a kind of state of modern
00:23:09.220 version um there was also something else i wanted to ask you about ed because um we we got our lads
00:23:16.640 in makerfield this week and so so this this recording is probably gonna have to go out next
00:23:20.500 week uh but at the time of recording um it is the morning well it is the morning after the the the
00:23:29.100 night before in belfast so two nights ago from our perspective a man was was almost beheaded
00:23:35.000 in Belfast and last night there were massive protests but the protests were very different
00:23:41.680 in Belfast to how they were in Southampton. In Southampton the protesters were almost
00:23:46.360 performing to the state. They sought out the police, they went to the police and they protested
00:23:53.700 in front of them and they did all sorts of performative things like taking the knee and
00:23:57.320 saying well you knelt for George Floyd why aren't you kneeling for us but they were essentially
00:24:01.840 seeking out the police and the ones who did do things that got them in trouble um they walked
00:24:07.940 around without masks they got themselves filmed they basically handed the state a prosecution
00:24:13.100 file through the and they did the evidence collection for them in belfast it was very
00:24:17.900 very different um no live streaming was allowed press wasn't allowed near they covered their
00:24:24.040 faces they left their phones at home they did not seek out the police what they did is they
00:24:27.960 is they sought out where the police were not they went straight to hmo and and uh immigrant
00:24:33.160 businesses and they targeted them you know where whatever it was a petrol bomb rocks through the
00:24:38.280 windows and then they vanished again it was very very targeted and it was it was clearly not a
00:24:43.260 performance to the state it was bypassing the state now the reason i want to ask you about
00:24:48.720 this is because you you came on our general election stream uh at the time of the last
00:24:53.640 general election when when starmer got into power and you were the first person i i heard made this
00:24:59.520 point i've heard other people make it since but you were the first you got it straight away
00:25:02.920 and you said this is the beginning of secretarian politics in britain because we just had something
00:25:08.000 like 15 gaza mps elected you know member for gaza central member of gaza west or whatever it was but
00:25:15.060 you had all these gaza mps so you've obviously seen and you saw something very early with the
00:25:21.060 direction that this country is going in and it just feels to me that belfast last night
00:25:25.380 was a prime example of how we are moving past the political and into the secretarian i wondered if
00:25:31.340 this is something you've been thinking about as well yeah i have been thinking about it today
00:25:35.020 i've been thinking that i wrote an article on it for my sub stack actually jolly heresy okay um
00:25:39.760 i was thinking that in many ways northern ireland is the worst place for a sudanese person to attempt
00:25:48.520 to behead and frankly he had probably blinded um i believe he is yes this this poor chap ogilvy
00:25:54.640 uh in uh in north belfast and it's the worst place because as you say there's something um
00:26:03.700 not that i am disparaging the british protesters in southampton um and i'm sure there was raw
00:26:11.100 emotion there and and and so on and people were very angry and it was appalling what happened
00:26:16.160 but um what they were doing was protesting against the police and saying look this is unfair there's
00:26:25.040 two-tier policing this is wrong what the people in northern ireland were doing was so completely
00:26:30.780 different it was it was very much we are we this person is part of the community of foreigners 1.00
00:26:38.340 these foreigners are a problem in belfast and we will therefore drive them out 0.99
00:26:45.680 and that's and that's a and that's a completely different way of of seeing things of what you're 1.00
00:26:52.240 doing what what one what one group is doing is saying okay we accept foreigners are here we just
00:26:57.160 we just want them to be treated equally to us another group is in a country where most people
00:27:02.800 are still white um is is saying no these foreigners have come it's causing problems they are to leave
00:27:09.180 if you enjoyed that content and of course you did because you are a smart person then why don't you 0.64
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