The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Chronicles #32 ｜ Amadeus with Josh Ferme

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to this episode of Chronicles, where today we're going to be talking all about

00:00:18.600 Amadeus by Peter Schaffer. And here to talk about this magical world of opera and music

00:00:25.320 is not necessarily a court composer, but he is a thought composer. It's Josh Firm. Hi, Josh.

00:00:32.200 What an introduction for my Chronicles debut.

00:00:35.840 No, thanks for being here, man. It's going to be a good one to talk about.

00:00:39.500 So some of you in the audience may know me. I should bloody well hope so.

00:00:44.620 Yeah, I'm introducing you to the audience.

00:00:48.280 But you might be saying, what does Josh know about high culture other than, you know,

00:00:52.900 sounding a little bit middle class. And occasionally shooting pheasants.

00:00:59.100 If only. Alas, I live in central Swindon, so it'll be more peasants than pheasants. 0.61

00:01:04.640 But that's not an admission of guilt, by the way.

00:01:08.740 So, yes, obviously, I don't necessarily have a background in classical opera or classical music.

00:01:16.620 However, I am a musician that also listens to music that is classical in nature.

00:01:23.340 And believe it or not, before reading the play and watching the film,

00:01:28.660 which, by the way, top five films of all time for me.

00:01:31.580 Oh, masterpiece. Total masterpiece.

00:01:33.780 I had heard of Mozart. I know it's hard to believe, but I've heard of the guy.

00:01:37.660 I've listened to some of his music.

00:01:39.980 Kind of a big deal, wasn't he?

00:01:41.100 Yeah.

00:01:41.800 Yeah. In my household, we played classical music quite often.

00:01:45.900 So it's something I've been brought up with.

00:01:48.040 And so watching the film as my introduction to the play,

00:01:53.020 as I watched the film before the play,

00:01:54.740 I was immediately sucked into this world and found it very compelling

00:02:01.300 in a way that took me by surprise.

00:02:04.580 Because it's a three and a half hour film, the director's cut.

00:02:07.780 And over the past three months, I've watched it three or four times,

00:02:10.560 which is a lot for a film that long.

00:02:14.300 Well, the testament to the quality of the actual film.

00:02:17.620 That's wonderful, yeah.

00:02:18.580 Yeah. And I suppose, because I, like you, was, you know,

00:02:22.040 I discovered the film first and then realised that it was a play many years ago.

00:02:26.980 I have actually been to see a theatrical performance of Amadeus at the National Theatre.

00:02:31.520 And there was a lot that was really good about it.

00:02:35.620 I mean, sure, it's set in London, so they've race-swapped it. 0.66

00:02:39.460 And Salieri's played by a black man.

00:02:41.320 But to have, you understand, like, in its original environment,

00:02:44.800 when this play first came out in 1979 at the National Theatre,

00:02:50.940 you know, to have the orchestra, to have, you know, to hear Mozart's music,

00:02:56.240 to hear Marriage of Figaro, Don Giovanni, all of these great musical pieces

00:03:00.720 that Mozart was obviously famous for, intertwined with this very, very,

00:03:06.660 and I want to preface this, heavily fictionalised version of history, right?

00:03:11.720 Very little in here and the events that we're going to talk about

00:03:15.400 and the rivalry between Mozart and Salieri really has any basis in true history.

00:03:22.760 In real life, they were good friends, weren't they?

00:03:24.820 They were, they were.

00:03:26.000 But even though the play and its entire narrative of conflict

00:03:31.320 with Salieri and Mozart is fictional and, as you say,

00:03:35.180 doesn't really map onto actual history,

00:03:37.660 I think one of the important points to make is that even at the time,

00:03:43.440 rumours of similar things were taking place after Mozart died,

00:03:49.240 very quickly after he died in 1791,

00:03:52.620 all sorts of rumours were swirling about that they had been poisoned,

00:03:56.020 that somebody had killed Mozart.

00:03:58.420 And when Salieri tried to commit suicide in 1823, you know, three decades later,

00:04:06.040 a part of that was due to a mental breakdown that he was going through

00:04:12.080 due to all of the rumours and gossip naming him as one of Mozart's apparent murderers.

00:04:19.280 And so even though he denied it at the end of his life,

00:04:22.520 it was something that even there, you know, in that era of classical music,

00:04:27.040 rumour was spread about it throughout European societies.

00:04:32.400 And so eventually you get a play being written only five years after Salieri died in 1830

00:04:39.980 called Mozart and Salieri by the famous Russian writer Alexander Pushkin.

00:04:46.840 And so, and then you had an opera as well that was made based on Pushkin's play

00:04:53.060 in towards the end of the 19th century.

00:04:55.260 And then eventually you get, in 1979, this Amadeus, this play by Peter Schaffer.

00:05:04.700 And it's brilliant, but it very much is working within,

00:05:08.680 it's a product in its own way of all of the rumour and gossip

00:05:12.840 that was around 200 years before.

00:05:16.880 So it's quite remarkable.

00:05:17.460 It's also depicted quite, the gossipy nature is much more present

00:05:23.540 in the actual play than in the film.

00:05:25.620 Yeah, with the ventichello.

00:05:27.060 Exactly.

00:05:27.820 Ventichello, yeah, the little winds.

00:05:29.540 Mm-hmm.

00:05:29.940 And I think that there's a sort of revelling in gossip

00:05:33.960 and a sort of playfulness in the writing of the play

00:05:39.440 that is manifest in the film in the character of Mozart.

00:05:43.840 But in the book, it's sort of the world that is given this veneer

00:05:47.860 of this playful, gossipy thing.

00:05:52.000 And there's jokes in there that actually made me laugh out loud.

00:05:56.860 I'm not even sure if they're intended as jokes,

00:05:59.120 but they're sort of blunt points of dry humour.

00:06:02.600 Yeah.

00:06:02.980 Which you don't expect.

00:06:05.120 Do you know what I mean?

00:06:05.860 Yeah, I do.

00:06:06.800 Well, I like the way, for example, just to jump ahead a little bit,

00:06:10.720 the way that Salieri introduces all of the different characters

00:06:15.260 in the play, his little ways of explaining their personalities

00:06:18.420 in very concise bits, where he talks about, you know,

00:06:22.000 a capelmeister Bono, you know, and being the capelmeister,

00:06:26.140 you know, the grand, the conductor for the Italian opera.

00:06:30.580 And Salieri is really just waiting for him to die

00:06:33.060 so he can take over his position as capelmeister.

00:06:35.720 And Bono's just not granting it.

00:06:39.840 There seems to be sort of a tenacious, stubborn disregard

00:06:45.160 for other people in the name Bono.

00:06:48.640 Who knew?

00:06:49.540 It seems to be a running thing.

00:06:51.880 There is a lot of overlap, obviously,

00:06:54.180 with the film being an adapted screenplay.

00:06:57.920 And obviously, just worth saying as well,

00:07:00.920 that both the play and the film won numerous awards.

00:07:05.840 And deservedly so.

00:07:06.620 Yeah, deservedly so.

00:07:08.180 But as you say already, there are differences.

00:07:10.900 I remember when I did A Man for All Seasons

00:07:14.180 with Bo on Chronicles,

00:07:16.840 and we were talking about how that one by Robert Bolt,

00:07:20.460 the play which came first,

00:07:23.680 felt more like an extended edition of the same script.

00:07:27.520 But actually, the dialogue was almost copy and paste.

00:07:30.980 A lot of it was really the same between the two mediums.

00:07:33.900 Whereas this is actually a little bit different.

00:07:36.300 The ending, in particular, is very, very different

00:07:39.020 to the point that Shaffer came out and said

00:07:41.860 he preferred the ending in the actual film.

00:07:44.680 And I do too.

00:07:45.200 Oh, what a good sport.

00:07:46.060 Yeah.

00:07:46.500 Fair enough.

00:07:47.260 Yeah.

00:07:47.420 Now, I think as much as it's a sort of low

00:07:52.760 and uncultured thing to say,

00:07:55.700 I did prefer the film to reading the screenplay.

00:08:00.400 And of course, there's more life to a film

00:08:02.860 than there is reading a play,

00:08:04.300 which is obviously just a foundation for something greater.

00:08:08.520 Sure.

00:08:08.720 However, I think even with my mental representations

00:08:13.440 taken from the film,

00:08:15.200 the world in which the film constructs

00:08:17.780 is more compelling to me than the book.

00:08:20.460 Although some of the iconic lines in the film

00:08:23.060 are in the play basically verbatim.

00:08:26.720 Yeah.

00:08:27.120 So all of the best notes are originally from that play.

00:08:30.720 Too many notes.

00:08:33.020 Good reference.

00:08:34.140 Yeah.

00:08:34.760 So let's begin, shall we, by...

00:08:37.080 So the entire narrative is framed around...

00:08:40.620 You're looking at Salieri, this aged composer

00:08:43.620 who has been a great success in his own day

00:08:46.840 and in about 1823.

00:08:49.880 And really, this entire play is his confession

00:08:54.160 to the audience for all of the evil, corrupt,

00:08:58.580 sinful things that he's done in his life.

00:09:00.800 In this, basically, there's no other way to put it,

00:09:04.940 war on God, right?

00:09:07.340 Salieri himself waged war on God.

00:09:10.720 But it wasn't always like that to begin with.

00:09:14.140 And you see a young boy born in 1750,

00:09:19.020 around and somewhere near Venice, you know, Italian,

00:09:23.700 with a father who...

00:09:25.720 So Salieri was born and he just had this natural love.

00:09:30.260 for music.

00:09:31.960 You know, he really believed that music was

00:09:34.320 the greatest form of art.

00:09:37.940 And it was through music.

00:09:38.680 He describes it as the language of God, basically.

00:09:41.660 Yeah.

00:09:42.120 And so through that, that's how we communicate

00:09:44.420 with God, through music.

00:09:46.240 I actually very much understand where he's coming from.

00:09:50.720 And if you're particularly musically minded,

00:09:54.220 you're...

00:09:55.260 The sort of feelings you get when you're listening

00:09:57.920 to music as a musician,

00:09:59.300 it feels like almost the language of God

00:10:03.420 or of the universe.

00:10:04.980 There's something almost transcendent

00:10:07.000 and outside of oneself.

00:10:10.000 And of course, if you really drill down into it,

00:10:13.680 it's...

00:10:14.480 Music is mathematical in its entirety.

00:10:17.780 It can be analyzed entirely mathematical

00:10:19.560 because it's, of course, the vibrations of sound

00:10:22.740 and also patterns and frequencies.

00:10:25.280 And so there's some argument to say

00:10:27.420 that it's manipulating the universe

00:10:28.900 in a way in which resonates

00:10:30.740 with something more transcendent.

00:10:33.900 And that's...

00:10:35.240 This is one thing that I wanted to go into

00:10:37.740 as an overarching thing that I like about Amadeus,

00:10:41.400 both the play and the film,

00:10:44.320 is that there's such a rich selection

00:10:48.140 of deep themes throughout both iterations.

00:10:53.960 And there's so much to think about,

00:10:55.940 so much to go away and contemplate.

00:10:58.680 And it's tackling, you know,

00:11:01.300 in a fictional sense at least,

00:11:03.540 a very human story

00:11:06.800 about various aspects of human nature

00:11:09.820 in a way that I found very, very compelling.

00:11:12.720 I absolutely agree with that.

00:11:14.080 And I think that that's one of the reasons

00:11:16.720 why, actually,

00:11:17.980 that Schaffer justifies,

00:11:22.140 like, in the actual merits of the work,

00:11:24.260 he justifies playing so loose with actual history.

00:11:27.600 Because, really, it's not a history

00:11:29.840 that he's trying to tell.

00:11:31.560 What he's trying to do is create a story

00:11:34.660 that appeals to all those themes

00:11:37.060 that you, of course, find so interesting.

00:11:39.480 He actually described it

00:11:40.860 as basically being like a fantasia

00:11:42.960 on Mozart's life.

00:11:45.020 It's more of a fantasy

00:11:46.000 than it is an actual history.

00:11:48.220 It's a sort of a set and setting

00:11:50.020 or a canvas in which to paint,

00:11:51.900 more than anything else.

00:11:53.500 But I think the fact that

00:11:55.080 it's involving, you know,

00:11:57.960 people who,

00:11:59.660 to perhaps more educated Europeans,

00:12:03.020 household names,

00:12:04.400 and creating this story of history

00:12:07.160 in a playful way.

00:12:08.300 Like, even if you didn't know anything

00:12:10.200 about the background

00:12:10.960 and you just watched the film

00:12:12.380 or just read the play,

00:12:14.640 you wouldn't presume

00:12:15.780 that this is a historic telling

00:12:18.240 of the history.

00:12:19.480 And normally I'm very pedantic

00:12:20.580 about caring about those sorts of depictions.

00:12:23.340 But with this,

00:12:24.880 it's got such life to it

00:12:27.180 that it doesn't matter,

00:12:29.080 I don't think.

00:12:30.220 Yeah.

00:12:30.340 There's a sort of

00:12:32.960 this playful,

00:12:36.960 almost zealous approach

00:12:39.500 to things that I find very infectious.

00:12:42.860 And it's,

00:12:43.900 again, in the film,

00:12:44.940 it's presented via

00:12:45.860 the character of Mozart himself.

00:12:48.160 And in the novel,

00:12:49.160 it's present in everyone

00:12:50.840 to a certain extent.

00:12:51.920 Yes.

00:12:52.220 this living life

00:12:55.620 in a way

00:12:56.980 that you have

00:12:57.620 such a grand appreciation of it.

00:12:59.420 And although the different characters

00:13:00.540 in the play

00:13:01.840 manifest this

00:13:04.120 in different ways,

00:13:06.200 you know,

00:13:07.020 Mozart's known

00:13:07.960 to be a heavy drinker 0.61

00:13:09.820 and a bit of a womanizer. 0.99

00:13:11.520 Like a fart joke. 0.72

00:13:12.640 Yeah.

00:13:13.120 Yeah.

00:13:13.540 And it's a bit childish.

00:13:14.640 That's how it manifests in him.

00:13:16.000 In Salieri,

00:13:16.780 it's music

00:13:18.060 and food.

00:13:19.360 And it's sort of

00:13:20.160 how do these

00:13:21.160 these pleasures manifest in life

00:13:23.020 that I found interesting.

00:13:24.420 Yeah.

00:13:24.560 And there's not even a focal point

00:13:25.880 of the story,

00:13:26.680 but they're just sort of

00:13:27.400 sprinkled in

00:13:28.200 for those who are

00:13:29.400 sort of paying attention

00:13:30.300 in a very nice way.

00:13:32.520 Definitely.

00:13:33.060 I'll just read this extract

00:13:34.060 from towards the beginning

00:13:35.500 of the play

00:13:36.000 where Salieri talks about

00:13:37.680 his life

00:13:38.780 and the things that he wanted

00:13:39.940 as a young man

00:13:40.640 where he says,

00:13:41.440 I wanted fame

00:13:42.380 not to deceive you.

00:13:43.880 I wanted to blaze

00:13:44.980 like a comet

00:13:45.700 across a firmament of Europe.

00:13:47.480 Yet only in one

00:13:49.400 special way.

00:13:50.860 Music.

00:13:52.200 Absolute music.

00:13:53.900 A note of music

00:13:54.860 is either right

00:13:55.860 or wrong.

00:13:56.920 Absolutely.

00:13:58.120 Not even time

00:13:59.120 can alter that.

00:14:00.300 Music is God's art.

00:14:02.180 Already when I was ten

00:14:03.940 a spray of sounded notes

00:14:05.580 would make me dizzy

00:14:06.920 almost to falling.

00:14:08.660 By twelve

00:14:09.200 I was humming

00:14:09.860 my arias

00:14:10.620 and anthems

00:14:11.340 to the Lord.

00:14:12.280 My one desire

00:14:13.300 was to join

00:14:14.200 all the composers

00:14:15.380 who had celebrated

00:14:16.380 his glory

00:14:17.260 through the long

00:14:18.360 Italian past.

00:14:20.140 Every Sunday

00:14:20.740 I saw him in church

00:14:22.140 painted on the flaking wall.

00:14:24.600 I don't mean Christ

00:14:25.680 the Christs of Lombardy 0.99

00:14:27.260 as simpering cities

00:14:28.800 with lambskins

00:14:29.760 on their sleeves.

00:14:30.940 No.

00:14:31.500 I mean

00:14:32.180 an old

00:14:33.300 candle-smoked god

00:14:34.640 in the mulberry robe

00:14:36.240 staring at the world

00:14:37.680 with dealer's eyes.

00:14:39.320 Tradesmen

00:14:39.860 had put him

00:14:40.560 up there.

00:14:41.580 Those eyes

00:14:42.200 made bargains

00:14:43.180 real and irreversible.

00:14:45.000 And so he talks

00:14:46.220 about the fact

00:14:46.740 that you gave me

00:14:47.820 this longing

00:14:49.260 for music, Lord.

00:14:50.480 Let me live up

00:14:52.160 to that.

00:14:52.540 That longing

00:14:53.080 that you've put

00:14:53.780 into me.

00:14:54.340 Make me a great

00:14:55.380 composer.

00:14:57.000 Give me those

00:14:57.920 things that I want.

00:14:58.880 Fame and to be

00:15:00.160 the wonder of Europe

00:15:01.560 and for everyone

00:15:02.360 to hear my music

00:15:03.500 because my music

00:15:04.640 is my means

00:15:05.980 of praising you.

00:15:07.060 Your goodness.

00:15:07.960 Your eternal worth.

00:15:09.620 But the thing is

00:15:11.100 and this is where

00:15:11.820 you get into it

00:15:12.700 from the very beginning

00:15:13.620 that Salieri

00:15:15.280 immediately makes

00:15:16.760 his own virtue

00:15:18.020 his goodness

00:15:19.360 conditional on

00:15:20.780 God's support.

00:15:22.100 He's not actually

00:15:23.080 just going to be

00:15:24.060 live a very good

00:15:25.280 virtuous Christian life 1.00

00:15:26.900 in and of itself

00:15:28.760 for its own ends

00:15:29.640 and its own means

00:15:30.400 and the way that it

00:15:31.220 impacts the people

00:15:32.480 around him.

00:15:33.360 He will only be good

00:15:35.120 on the proviso

00:15:36.940 that God grants him

00:15:38.520 the things that he wants

00:15:40.160 in life.

00:15:41.600 So there are two things

00:15:43.040 I want to say about this.

00:15:43.940 The first of which is

00:15:44.840 that that extract

00:15:46.300 is a particularly

00:15:47.520 good example

00:15:48.140 of the book's

00:15:49.220 representation

00:15:49.860 of the development

00:15:51.160 in the story

00:15:51.760 being much better

00:15:52.720 or the play

00:15:54.340 should I say

00:15:54.900 than the film

00:15:56.020 because the language

00:15:57.140 used there

00:15:57.900 is magnificently written.

00:16:01.000 It is very flowery

00:16:03.160 and very emotive

00:16:04.500 in a way that

00:16:05.260 when Salieri

00:16:06.180 is talking about

00:16:06.860 it in the film

00:16:07.500 he's less poetic

00:16:10.940 about it.

00:16:11.640 He's just more

00:16:12.380 giving you story notes

00:16:14.260 which I think

00:16:15.460 is a shame really.

00:16:18.060 So the second point

00:16:19.320 being that I find

00:16:20.180 it interesting

00:16:20.820 that Salieri

00:16:21.600 sort of bargains

00:16:22.640 with God

00:16:23.280 and holds his goodness

00:16:25.680 as one of the

00:16:27.120 aspects that

00:16:28.480 God gets in return 1.00

00:16:30.080 and that it could

00:16:32.400 be interpreted

00:16:33.160 as why he was

00:16:35.300 sort of brought

00:16:36.100 so high

00:16:36.700 and then brought

00:16:37.320 down so low

00:16:38.560 was to punish him

00:16:39.920 for thinking

00:16:40.400 that he can

00:16:41.060 basically bargain

00:16:41.900 with God

00:16:44.120 with his virtue

00:16:46.300 as a chip

00:16:46.840 on the table

00:16:47.500 and that's

00:16:49.700 some sort of

00:16:50.280 divine punishment

00:16:51.240 which I think

00:16:52.880 there's certainly

00:16:53.460 evidence that you

00:16:54.360 could

00:16:54.620 in both the play

00:16:56.900 and the film

00:16:57.480 that that is

00:16:58.060 an interpretation

00:16:58.640 of it

00:16:59.340 but I also think

00:17:00.780 that it's interesting

00:17:03.680 as well

00:17:04.160 that he goes

00:17:04.980 back further

00:17:05.820 in time

00:17:07.240 almost to

00:17:09.120 pre-enlightenment

00:17:10.100 because of course

00:17:10.860 it says so

00:17:11.640 more explicitly

00:17:12.400 in the play

00:17:13.620 than in the film

00:17:15.320 that this is

00:17:17.080 you know

00:17:17.760 the enlightenment

00:17:18.460 this is a grand

00:17:19.820 time of

00:17:20.680 people are no longer

00:17:22.200 bogged down

00:17:22.960 by silly things 0.52

00:17:24.880 like I don't know 0.80

00:17:26.120 superstition

00:17:26.840 or what have you

00:17:27.700 everything that Hume

00:17:29.820 railed against

00:17:30.700 you know

00:17:31.240 all those little things

00:17:32.120 yeah

00:17:32.340 and it's interesting

00:17:33.460 that Salieri

00:17:34.020 sort of goes

00:17:34.700 to a pre-enlightenment

00:17:35.960 notion of God

00:17:38.040 as someone

00:17:39.120 who can be bargained

00:17:40.140 with

00:17:40.540 and you come up

00:17:41.720 with a negotiation

00:17:42.640 because sort of

00:17:44.000 post-enlightenment

00:17:44.700 God was more

00:17:45.700 it took on

00:17:47.420 a different character

00:17:48.360 in the European mind

00:17:49.480 and I find that

00:17:50.720 very interesting

00:17:51.860 in how it's presented

00:17:53.000 but sorry

00:17:53.500 no no

00:17:54.080 you're going to read

00:17:54.680 another quote

00:17:55.840 no it's all right

00:17:56.620 I was just going to say

00:17:57.460 that and also

00:17:58.500 the fact that

00:17:59.360 so Salieri

00:18:00.320 makes this bargain

00:18:01.640 with God

00:18:02.300 and it seems

00:18:03.640 very quickly

00:18:04.460 to Salieri

00:18:05.720 that God

00:18:06.980 accepts this pact

00:18:08.940 he accepts this deal

00:18:09.880 because Salieri's

00:18:10.960 father dies

00:18:11.880 and Salieri's

00:18:13.860 father had been

00:18:14.640 a man who

00:18:15.320 had not wanted

00:18:16.380 who had actively

00:18:18.000 discouraged his son

00:18:19.160 from pursuing

00:18:20.100 this path

00:18:20.660 of music

00:18:21.160 and concert

00:18:21.780 and going around

00:18:22.980 the courts

00:18:23.460 of Europe

00:18:24.040 you know

00:18:24.420 he wanted him

00:18:25.000 to live a humbler

00:18:25.840 life

00:18:26.780 that's in the film

00:18:27.680 but in the

00:18:28.260 play I think

00:18:29.640 someone just

00:18:30.620 comes along

00:18:31.360 and he says

00:18:32.600 the following day

00:18:33.720 and whisks him away

00:18:35.500 whereas I feel like

00:18:36.940 the way the film

00:18:37.960 presents it

00:18:38.480 is probably a bit better

00:18:39.280 yeah

00:18:39.680 but also in the film

00:18:41.760 the way it's described

00:18:42.500 as a miracle

00:18:43.220 as well

00:18:44.260 the death of your father

00:18:45.580 is a miracle

00:18:46.740 yeah

00:18:47.360 like his father

00:18:48.020 didn't really do

00:18:48.640 anything wrong

00:18:49.400 no

00:18:49.800 he just

00:18:51.360 didn't want to

00:18:52.740 encourage him

00:18:54.040 going into music

00:18:54.860 which

00:18:55.260 you know

00:18:55.960 most parents

00:18:57.220 have preferred

00:18:58.480 professions

00:18:59.080 for their children

00:19:00.020 so it's not that

00:19:01.140 unusual

00:19:01.760 Salieri

00:19:02.580 I know when I was

00:19:03.960 talking about

00:19:04.740 oh you know

00:19:05.240 maybe I could be

00:19:06.020 a musician

00:19:06.540 because I'd been

00:19:07.800 you know

00:19:08.160 played

00:19:08.580 since I was a teenager

00:19:09.740 my parents were like

00:19:10.840 well

00:19:11.220 it might be a good idea

00:19:12.440 to have a career

00:19:13.240 just in case

00:19:14.800 but they're basically

00:19:15.540 like yeah 1.00

00:19:15.800 don't be an idiot 1.00

00:19:16.400 and they were right 1.00

00:19:17.300 yeah

00:19:17.920 well I've seen

00:19:19.980 all of your guitars

00:19:20.860 they're there for a reason

00:19:22.240 aren't they

00:19:22.600 they have a purpose

00:19:23.520 yeah

00:19:24.080 ornamentation at the minute

00:19:25.300 I've hardly been playing

00:19:26.280 yeah

00:19:26.640 so Salieri ends up

00:19:28.420 going to Vienna

00:19:29.600 you know

00:19:30.060 into the heart

00:19:30.780 of the Habsburg Empire

00:19:32.200 he gains the favour

00:19:33.840 of Emperor Joseph II

00:19:35.820 you know

00:19:36.340 the Holy Roman Emperor

00:19:37.820 who is

00:19:38.360 I will just say

00:19:39.000 even though he's a minor character

00:19:40.580 he's so entertaining

00:19:42.280 you know

00:19:43.160 like there's so much comedy

00:19:44.480 that Schaffer squeezes out

00:19:46.360 of him

00:19:46.740 he seems very

00:19:47.900 almost charming

00:19:50.480 a touch bumbling

00:19:51.660 in his depiction

00:19:53.580 even though

00:19:54.880 you know

00:19:55.740 actual historic accounts

00:19:56.760 of the man

00:19:57.260 are glowing

00:19:58.300 and he's not presented

00:19:59.240 badly here either

00:20:00.280 no

00:20:00.600 no

00:20:01.120 he's definitely presented

00:20:02.580 as well-meaning

00:20:04.220 and obviously

00:20:05.580 with a passion for music

00:20:06.880 you know

00:20:07.180 in the sense that

00:20:07.980 akin to the actual

00:20:09.560 historical Joseph II

00:20:11.020 he was a great patron

00:20:12.840 of the arts

00:20:13.860 and you see in this as well

00:20:15.280 but one of the things

00:20:16.940 that I find interesting

00:20:18.080 is when Mozart

00:20:19.640 comes on the scene

00:20:20.740 how Mozart

00:20:21.780 is able

00:20:22.620 to push

00:20:24.100 the boundaries

00:20:24.880 of what is

00:20:26.620 acceptable art

00:20:27.760 throughout it

00:20:29.380 no

00:20:29.660 we're going to have

00:20:30.480 this one

00:20:30.880 where it's not going to be

00:20:31.880 in Italian

00:20:32.320 it's going to be in German

00:20:33.460 no we're staging this

00:20:34.840 in an Ottoman harem 0.58

00:20:36.240 yes we're going to have

00:20:37.740 ballet

00:20:38.160 even though you

00:20:39.320 banned it

00:20:39.920 by your own decree

00:20:40.780 Mozart's constantly

00:20:42.320 able to break

00:20:43.380 these barriers

00:20:44.340 for like

00:20:45.320 what the establishment

00:20:46.460 will allow

00:20:47.440 to be seen

00:20:48.220 by the general public

00:20:49.980 whereas Salieri

00:20:51.340 is obviously

00:20:52.140 a much more

00:20:53.080 he plays it much safer

00:20:54.740 he tries to work

00:20:56.120 within

00:20:56.700 the things that

00:20:57.880 have already been

00:20:58.760 decided are appropriate

00:21:00.140 and to the

00:21:01.480 fashionable tastes

00:21:02.640 of the time

00:21:03.320 whereas Mozart

00:21:04.320 is obviously

00:21:05.120 more of a trailblazer

00:21:06.460 if you enjoyed

00:21:07.360 this piece of

00:21:07.980 premium content

00:21:08.740 from the Lotus Eaters

00:21:09.820 head to our website

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The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - January 31, 2026

PREVIEW： Chronicles #32 ｜ Amadeus with Josh Ferme

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