The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to this interview where I should be talking about one of my favourite

00:00:03.440 films of all time, the 1968 Academy Award winning film, multiple Academy Award winning film,

00:00:10.960 The Lion in Winter. And to discuss it, I'm joined by Nick Hughes. How are you, sir?

00:00:15.680 I'm very well, thanks. And yourself?

00:00:17.520 Yeah, no, absolutely fine. Really looking forward to this. I've done a fair few videos, epochs,

00:00:23.040 about Henry II. There's one on Henry II, there's one on Ella of Aquitaine,

00:00:27.120 there's a couple on Richard, there's one on John, there's one on William the Marshal,

00:00:32.160 there's one on the troublesome priest, Beckett. And so I thought I'd sort of basically round off

00:00:39.120 this period, one of my favourite periods, one of my favourite kings, by talking about The Lion in

00:00:44.800 Winter. I've threatened to a couple of times. And so finally, and I know you have seen it many,

00:00:51.280 many times and really like it and know all about the detail and production and all sorts of things.

00:00:55.520 So I'm really looking forward to talking about one of my favourite films of all time. It is in my top

00:01:00.720 10, I think. One thing I'll quickly say... Yeah, it's...

00:01:03.840 Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead.

00:01:05.280 I was just saying, it ranks very highly. And what's interesting, you mentioned all these names,

00:01:09.920 Henry, Eleanor, Richard, John, William the Marshal. Who gets left out? And it's a plot point in the film,

00:01:17.040 Jeff. Nobody wants to talk about Jeff.

00:01:19.440 Yeah. And that's something that comes into effect in the film.

00:01:24.240 Yeah, poor old Jeff. And of course, Henry the Young King, who casts a long shadow over both

00:01:30.080 that family and this film. Although you never see him, of course. We'll get into the dates. He's

00:01:35.920 supposed to have died very soon after this. So let's just jump straight in. It's set in

00:01:40.240 the winter of, or Christmas, of 1183.

00:01:43.840 Ah, Christmas. Warm and rosy time. The hot wine steams, the yule log roars,

00:01:50.800 and we're the fat that's in the fire.

00:01:52.880 Now, Henry, Plantagenet, Henry II, got about five years left to live. And Henry the Young King has

00:02:01.520 just died. He died that summer of natural causes. And of course, that changes the dynamic, the power

00:02:07.600 dynamic for the entire kingdom or the entire Angevine empire and the dynamic within the family.

00:02:15.280 So one of the first things I'd like to say before we sort of get stuck into things is that, just to gush

00:02:21.520 a bit about the film in general, is that it's one of those old school films. Nowadays, you've got

00:02:27.840 films, haven't you, which are very sort of wafer thin, very sort of paper thin, very sort of throw

00:02:33.280 away, nothing-y. And the writing, the screenplay is just a nonsense. It's written by someone with the 0.88

00:02:38.960 mind of a child. This is the opposite of that, right? This is a real film. This is a real story

00:02:45.440 written by adults who know their business. And I just can't recommend it enough for people.

00:02:52.800 What are your most general thoughts and feelings about it?

00:02:55.920 Well, the thing about the film is that it's led by two actors at the top of their game.

00:03:04.720 Both Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn bring their A-game to it.

00:03:07.840 And the scriptwriter, James Goldman, him and his brother, William Goldman, are two of the best

00:03:16.240 screenwriters in Hollywood, operating around the 60s, 70s and 80s. And again, as you said,

00:03:23.440 they know what they're talking about. James Goldman, I would say with the film, it's

00:03:30.400 set in a historical time. These are real historical people. But what he's doing is that he's filling

00:03:35.360 in a gap. He's looking at the lives of these people and he's going, Henry is this powerful

00:03:42.800 king. He's the first Plantagenet king. He ends the civil war in England. He expands his empire into

00:03:48.880 France. He dominates the French. He dominates the kingdom surrounding him. And he has a succession

00:03:57.600 crisis. And we know his sons lead multiple revolts against him. And we know Eleanor of Aquitaine is the

00:04:04.480 most powerful woman in Europe. And he has to lock her in prison because she's a troublemaker. And 1.00

00:04:12.000 that's what we know from the history. And what James Goldman does is that he fills in the gaps. He

00:04:17.680 takes an incident that's not recorded in history and he extrapolates what we know from the historical

00:04:26.080 record into this intense family drama that takes place over Christmas. And I think the dialogue,

00:04:34.720 the plotting, the intrigue and the performances, it just all comes together in this. It's a very

00:04:41.680 intense film. Yeah, no, it's great. It was originally a play, I understand, which didn't do that well.

00:04:48.640 But as a film, it's absolutely superb. As you say, all the actors really bring their A game. For me,

00:04:54.000 Katherine Hepburn, she got an Oscar for it. Absolutely brings her A game. Steals every scene for me. 1.00

00:05:01.760 You've loved me all these years. God forgive me. I've upset the queen. We need you help us.

00:05:10.080 Martin, miss the fun of selling you. Be Richard's chancellor.

00:05:13.680 Rot.

00:05:25.280 Well, that's how deals are made. We've got him if we want him.

00:05:31.040 And that's saying something when you're up against the likes of Hopkins and O'Toole. But yeah,

00:05:37.440 also this idea that the tension or the drama of people that love each other and despise each other.

00:05:48.400 Luckily, my family isn't anywhere near that intense, but there's that sort of dynamic in families in all

00:05:54.800 sorts of ways that you wouldn't dream of actually hurting each other, but you also kind of hate each other and all that,

00:06:00.800 all those sorts of very extreme dynamics going on. Obviously, it's dialed up to bloody 20 in this, in this family.

00:06:07.680 But yeah, just the, the, the, the, the dialogue is also absolutely superb. And well, one thing I just would like to mention is that they did do a remake of it in like 2003 with like Glenn Close. And was it Patrick Stewart?

00:06:24.560 I've watched a bit of it. I haven't even watched it all. I couldn't get through it. I, I, I deny it. It didn't happen.

00:06:31.680 Um, yeah, we're not going to be talking about the 2003 or 2005 or whatever it was version of it. Just a, just a classic 1968 one. Um, so yeah, I guess where, where, where would you like to start? Because it was one thing I was just found out. Um, I had known before, but I'd forgotten, but that it was Anthony Hopkins film debut. That's remarkable, isn't it?

00:06:56.080 Yeah. It was the film debuts of, of the four young actors. It was three of them were making their debut. So most famously, it was Anthony Hopkins film debut. He had been a rising star in the mid sixties in the Royal Shakespeare Company.

00:07:11.680 And all, all, all four of the young actors were cast, um, because of Peter O'Toole. Peter O'Toole just said, okay, we, we, we, he loved the script. He convinced Catherine Hepburn to come on board, uh, because they'd known each other for years.

00:07:27.520 And he said, we, I, I need an older actress in her late fifties, early sixties, who is a legend of the screen. And it was either going to be Catherine Hepburn or Vivian Lee, but Vivian Lee, I think had died just a few months previously.

00:07:40.800 And he said, it's got to be Catherine Hepburn and no one else. So he made the call to her. And then he was, uh, the casting director put forward all these names of young British actors who were on the, uh, up and coming and he met them and he said, right. Hopkins. Um, he's, he's great. He understands what he needs to do in this film.

00:08:01.980 Um, and then it was also the film debut of Timothy Dalton. He was just out of RADA. He had no screen acting and only about a couple of plays under his belt.

00:08:11.200 Um, Nigel Terry, who plays John, that was his film debut. He was 20. And John Castle playing Jeff. He'd only had one film that was blow up in 1966. And he guests stars in an episode of the prisoner. That's his, the sum of his film acting experience.

00:08:29.200 And they hire these four and then just drop them into this intense, brilliantly written period drama with Peter O'Toole and Catherine Hepburn.

00:08:40.200 And the fact that they all, all four of them hold their own and they all have their moments. I mean, it's a testament to the way that film comes together with the, particularly in the performances. They all know what they have to do. They all absolutely deliver those parts. And that's the problem with the remake is that it just, yeah, they're fine actors, but there's no magic. There's no magic. There's no chemistry in it.

00:09:09.000 There's no, there's none of that. Yeah. Absolute rawness that you get with, with the 68 version.

00:09:15.980 No, absolutely. I think, uh, John, uh, was probably the weakest performance and it's still great. I think, I think Jeffrey, is it John Castle? I think he's, he's, his performance is absolutely brilliant. Uh, there's no one weak in it really. Yeah. I watched about probably half, two thirds of the, of the remake. Um, and it was, as you say, no magic.

00:09:37.700 You know, I gave it every opportunity I could and I couldn't finish it because I love this, the original 68 version so much. I've had it on VHS when I was a kid. Uh, when sort of the internet happened, it was among the first films I had downloaded. I've watched it. I don't know, 20, 30 times. I don't know. A silly number of times.

00:09:56.460 I rewatched it last night for this. I haven't watched it in maybe a year or two. It's one of those films that every, every year or two, I find myself rewatching it. Never get tired of it. Uh, it's quite long. It's over two hours, isn't it?

00:10:08.420 And, um, it's always seems to flash by for me. It always seems to flash by. I'm never bored, never bored with it, even though I've seen it so many times.

00:10:17.620 Yeah. It goes to the, it goes at such a pace. Um, and that's partly to do with the dialogue, the intensity of the scenes and the, and the speed at which the actors perform it.

00:10:28.660 I mean, um, Oh, Oh, Oh tool is just, um, he's playing a 50 year old man. So that's older than he was in real life. He was only 36, I think. Um, but he plays a 50 year old towards the end of his life so well. Um, but there's a kind of manic energy to Henry II as he's trying to scheme.

00:10:50.220 I think we should talk a bit about the plot and the historical background. Um, but, uh, yeah, the, um, the production of it, I think, as you said, it was a play and it wasn't very successful, but everybody involved in the producing the play and directing the play, um, realized how good a script it was.

00:11:11.220 And so it was given, it was sold on to a film producer, Joseph Levine, who had produced, I think the 1964 Beckett, the, um, the other Henry II film.

00:11:24.280 And so he said, okay, let's get Peter O'Toole back to play this role. Um, and it is a cracking script. And in the end, it worked out better as a film than it did as a stage play.

00:11:36.280 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to see it on stage just, just because, uh, but yeah, I was, I was reading that it sort of lost money, uh, which is strange, but I mean, that's the thing with the theater is that it has to be in, in the right theater and promoted in the right way. Otherwise it will probably fail.

00:11:55.000 Um, but yeah, this, I mean, it got, it got nominated, was it for seven or eight Oscars and it won three. Uh, I think the score, um, not best picture, but Hepburn won for best actress and, um, anyway, critically acclaimed and anyone that watches it, you've will enjoy it.

00:12:12.260 I think, um, it's not, it films from that era sometimes to the 21st century sort of TikToker mind, sometimes a very, very slow. I've got no problem with that, of course, but lots of people do.

00:12:24.200 This isn't slow, right? It's not slow. It jumps straight in. It absolutely jumps straight in, introduces all the characters and each one is sort of a gem of a character.

00:12:33.740 Um, and it, and it, it never slows down. It just keeps going. So yeah, the historical, some of the historical background. Um, it gives you a fair bit. It sort of lets you in. You don't need to know about the late 12th century and the reign of Henry Plantagener to watch this film. Um, but nevertheless, we can talk about it a bit. Yeah. He's, you know, he's got the, this empire, the Angevin empire, and it, it, it stretches from the Pyrenees to Scotland, essentially, and including Pyrenees.

00:13:03.740 It's part of Ireland and all sorts of things. And the, the kingdom of France is relatively small. It's nothing like modern France. I mean, this takes place at, at Chinon, um, which is in the middle of France, south of Paris.

00:13:15.740 So that gives you an idea. And that's, that's Henry's land, part of Henry's land. So that gives you an idea that, that France, the kingdom of France is kind of Paris and the areas around it in all sorts of ways, um, is nothing like the modern map of France.

00:13:31.740 Um, yeah. Henry controls, um, yeah. Henry controls, controls most of what we in the modern day call France. Uh, so the power dynamic, you know, the king of France, Timothy Doughton is a far, far inferior partner in all of this, although still powerful.

00:13:47.740 And it's only a generation or so before, well, it's about a generation later when John becomes king. Uh, this is the real history, uh, where, uh, Philip gets the upper hand and takes lots of French lands off of him.

00:14:00.740 But that, that's a different story. In the 1180s, um, he had this, the, the eldest son, the eldest surviving son, another Henry, Henry, the young king, who had been groomed from the earliest age to succeed.

00:14:14.740 He was heir and everyone expected him to, and all the other sons were just sort of spares, if you like. Um, and Henry, the young king dies and all the accounts, all the histories agree that that was sort of a devastating blow.

00:14:31.740 I mean, kind of, obviously it was a devastating blow, but not just sort of interpersonally, not just for the family, but for the, for the, for the, for, well, for the history of Western Europe.

00:14:41.740 It's a blow. It changes everything. And it means now that Richard, if, if not, not just Richard, but Richard, along with his scheming mother, Eleanor, the Duchess of Aquitaine, um,

00:14:54.740 now see themselves as, well, they are power players very much in their own right. And there's, there's all sorts of tensions with them and Henry. Would you like to talk a touch about that?

00:15:05.740 Yeah. So what we have, um, the film touches on, it mentions the young, the young Henry's death.

00:15:13.740 Sheenon's young Henry's dead.

00:15:15.740 Um, and that's the, the purpose of Henry gathering the family together at Sheenon is to settle the question because he's got us, Henry's got a scheme, which is to bypass Richard and go straight to John because he's, uh, Richard's grown up under his mother's influence and John's grown up under Henry's influence.

00:15:36.740 And, uh, the, the original plan is obviously Henry was going to become King. Richard would be the, he'd be like a one man fire brigade. That would be his role as the second son. He would go off and fight the wars. He'd fight the battles. He'd go off to the crusades and he would, he would, he would represent the Plantagenet family on the battlefield.

00:15:57.740 And Geoffrey would be groomed as an administrator and John, well, there is no set role for John in the original plan. Um, but once young Henry dies, um, the film has it that Henry the second kind of, he knows Richard's got the qualities of a King, but he's not going to make it easy for him because he is his mother's son.

00:16:26.740 And so he's got this plan that it will be John and that he will personally groom John, um, for, for the role and bypass rich, keep Richard probably on as the, as the battlefield general that his role would be, whereas John would sit on the throne.

00:16:44.660 Richard would fight the battles. Geoffrey would run the administration. That's Henry's. Oh, um, and he would marry. Yes.

00:16:52.380 There's another significant character of Alice, who is the, a relation of Philip, the second of France.

00:16:59.340 And she's going to either marry Richard or marry John, depending on which way Henry's feeling.

00:17:06.620 Um, and that's not part of the arrangement he had with Philip the second's father.

00:17:34.780 Um, so it gets really complex, all these, these webs, but it is, um, yeah, it's this dynastical, uh, issue that Henry, and Henry's trying to play 4d chess.

00:17:48.940 It is a very popular buzz phrase in 2023, 24, but that's essentially what he's trying to do.

00:17:56.380 And then he's hasn't quite reckoned on Eleanor, who also is very adept at playing 4d chess.

00:18:03.740 Yeah. So we must talk a quick, a bit about, um, his relationship with, with his estranged wife, Eleanor of Aquitaine.

00:18:09.900 So originally she'd been married to, uh, Louis VII of France and Henry, Henry had nicked her off of him, essentially.

00:18:20.380 Uh, this is the years, decades before 1183.

00:18:23.580 And, uh, so, yeah, the idea was that Henry, the young king would inherit.

00:18:26.940 And at that point, the plan would be that, um, Richard would be made Duke of Aquitaine, Geoffrey would be given Brittany, and John would not have any lands.

00:18:39.100 Well, he was called Lackland, John Lackland for a while.

00:18:41.660 Yeah.

00:18:42.220 But of course, when the young king dies, all that has to change, you know, Richard is almost certainly probably going to become, uh, the king.

00:18:48.300 And so you have to reshuffle everything.

00:18:50.860 But already by that point, Eleanor had been in prison. 0.88

00:18:54.460 So long before this, when the, when Henry, the young king was still alive, he'd raised a revolt against Henry a long time before this with, with, along with his mother.

00:19:06.320 And so Henry had put her in prison, literally, literally just detained her because she could not be trusted.

00:19:16.540 Now, as you said earlier, it's a good point that, um, um, James Goldman is sort of filling in gaps here, because although the record isn't too bad for Henry II, we don't know in detail what happened during the Christmas of 1183 at Sheenon.

00:19:33.640 So the screenplay, the story is essentially a fiction, but, you know, he's got a, he must have, or did have, certainly, um, a very good grasp of everything.

00:19:43.660 And there's one great line, for example, where Eleanor says, um, that she, she went on crusade with Louis years ago, and she wasn't sure if, uh, who was in charge, uh, you know, who was the most important, whether it was God or Christ, or whether it was Uncle Raymond.

00:20:00.800 And, or small details like this, that shows he's got a very deep knowledge, a pretty deep knowledge of, of the real history.

00:20:07.540 Um, so, um, so yeah, where, where would you like to start with the film?

00:20:13.400 Because, uh, it is sort of a moment in time, isn't it?

00:20:15.680 It's very short.

00:20:16.440 The events take place over a very short period.

00:20:19.100 Well, just a, what is it?

00:20:20.160 Just a couple of days.

00:20:21.140 Just a few days over the Christmas period.

00:20:24.960 Yeah.

00:20:25.400 Um, so what, what's interesting is, is how it establishes the characters.

00:20:31.720 Um, and I think every character's introduction reveals a lot about their character.

00:20:39.120 So we start, the first shot is two clash swords and Henry's going, come at me, which is like the metaphor for the whole film.

00:20:47.780 Everybody comes at Henry at some point and he's the man, he's, he's the king, the one in charge.

00:20:55.060 And he's, he, he's challenging everybody to come at him because he's still the king.

00:21:00.880 He's, he's still the, as he calls himself later on the film, the ablest man of an able time.

00:21:07.000 Um, and that's how he sees himself.

00:21:09.120 And he, you know, he looks at all this land, this empire that he's created out of the ashes of us, of England's first civil war.

00:21:18.200 With Stephen and Matilda.

00:21:20.760 And so he's, he's right, right to feel sort of puffed up and proud of himself for his achievement.

00:21:27.480 That's how we first meet Henry. 0.99

00:21:29.820 We first meet John as being kicked on his ass. 0.99

00:21:33.000 He loses that duel with his father. 0.99

00:21:35.580 They're having a sort of mock training fight.

00:21:38.320 John loses. 0.99

00:21:39.000 He's on his ass and he kind of scuttles away, you know, just to go and run and play Johnny. 1.00

00:21:44.380 And that's how we're going to understand his character, that he's sniveling, that he's weak, that he's incapable. 1.00

00:21:51.940 But at the same time, he's doted, you know, his father's throwing him all these crumbs and cookies.

00:21:57.660 So he's got this undeserved, um, sense of self-importance.

00:22:03.840 He hasn't earned anything, but he just feels all he has to do is lick his father's boots and he gets everything.

00:22:11.020 When we meet Richard, he's in a, he's in a joust and he's doing the martial combat.

00:22:17.900 And so we know he's the man of action.

00:22:19.900 He's the, he's the man who puts himself at the front line.

00:22:23.940 He's tough.

00:22:25.640 He's brutal.

00:22:26.840 Although it looks like he's going to kill his opponent, but he holds, but he's holds off.

00:22:30.960 He has just enough.

00:22:32.640 He looks like the red mist descends with Richard, but he's just got, just got enough to hold, hold his murderous instincts in.

00:22:38.940 So when we meet Jeffrey, he's on a, he's kind of dealing with the, sorry, Nick, just a super quick note on that bit.

00:22:45.260 I think that's a classic example of showing, not telling the showing that Richard's something close to a maniac, something close to just a stone cold killer, but isn't quiet.

00:22:58.720 In fact, it can be reasoned with, um, and there's no dialogue.

00:23:03.260 No one says anything.

00:23:04.060 There's no voiceover.

00:23:05.080 It just shows you that it just gives you that.

00:23:07.060 And it lets the audience come to that conclusion on, on your own.

00:23:11.920 Something that isn't done enough these days in films, right?

00:23:16.100 Uh, but anyway, sorry, please do carry on.

00:23:17.700 But I love that bit where you think Richard's just going to kill the guy, but he doesn't.

00:23:22.520 And then there's Jeff who is dealing with a kind of border dispute or a, um, a kind of minor rebellion.

00:23:29.400 And he's conducting a, uh, a battle, but he sits on top of a sand dune, um, overlooking the field.

00:23:37.720 And he's got, um, a force of cavalry hidden behind a hill.

00:23:41.420 And with, we know then that Jeff is the planner, the plotter, the, the schemer, because he's not personally involved in the combat.

00:23:49.980 He's not leading the troops from the front.

00:23:51.960 He's leading it from a vantage point and he's set things up.

00:23:56.200 He's set a trap.

00:23:57.000 And that's all we need to know about Jeff from that opening scene.

00:24:01.520 And then Eleanor makes this.

00:24:02.540 Again, show him not telling, right?

00:24:04.480 Yeah.

00:24:05.080 Yeah, show him not tell.

00:24:06.340 And then Eleanor arrives on this barge with trumpeters, with heralds.

00:24:11.260 She's sitting on a throne and she is just looking the business.

00:24:15.420 She's just looking, um, and Henry just runs up the battlements to see her arrive.

00:24:22.480 He's like a, like a kid, you know, Oh, you know, mom's home, you know, and he, you know, he's, he's kind of, he's always in awe of Eleanor.

00:24:31.460 He doesn't trust her.

00:24:32.540 And they have this fractious relationship, but her entrance is like this regal splendor.

00:24:38.840 All eyes on me.

00:24:40.380 Eleanor has arrived.

00:24:41.860 The party can begin, you know, it's that.

00:24:44.660 And again, none of those scenes have hardly any dialogue, but you just know the characters and you know how they're all going to relate.

00:24:52.140 And when Philip II arrives, he's got an entourage, somebody's carrying his train, he's wearing a crown.

00:24:58.260 So, and he's, he's looking young, cocky and confident.

00:25:01.420 And that's what we need to know about Philip.

00:25:04.640 Yes, he is a king and he's cocky and he's confident.

00:25:08.060 How's he going to fare in front of Henry?

00:25:10.440 A couple of things to say I wanted to say about, um, Eleanor.

00:25:12.960 Uh, one that you, you do see a quick scene, just a super quick scene of, I think it's William the Marsha actually comes to her or one of Henry's men comes to her and says, you're, you're wanted at Sheenong because she's been holed up in Salisbury in England.

00:25:25.380 You're wanted.

00:25:26.240 And she's, she just says, where?

00:25:28.400 And they say Sheenong.

00:25:29.600 And, uh, she knows she's going to be sort of let out, trotted out for Christmas, for Christmas court.

00:25:35.860 Um, and so straight away for me anyway, and I think everyone else agrees, including the Academy, the, uh, Catherine Hepburn, uh, is, uh, mesmerizing in it.

00:25:47.340 Uh, I really do think she steals nearly every scene she's in. 1.00

00:25:51.160 Um, obviously she's a great actress, uh, but particularly from, I've seen her in all sorts of films, loads of films.

00:25:57.300 Uh, but this is, this is the best thing I've ever saw her in.

00:26:04.200 And then the thing is that she's American, right?

00:26:06.920 Um, I think she'd recently, very recently lost her husband.

00:26:10.680 Um, Spencer Tracy had died, like just a few months before they shot this.

00:26:15.140 So I think a lot of her sort of sadness and things is quite real.

00:26:20.480 Um, but no, she's American, but she's got that extremely unique accent and voice, hasn't she? 0.95

00:26:27.220 She's, I suppose, she's basically very posh. 0.99

00:26:30.480 She's like the poshest an American can be. 1.00

00:26:33.040 You know, she was very rich and aristocratic as far as Americans are.

00:26:37.180 How dear of you to let me out of jail.

00:26:40.480 And so it doesn't stick out as just like, you know, a New York accent or anything.

00:26:45.140 Or an L.A. accent.

00:26:46.600 She's got her very, very own voice.

00:26:50.100 Yes.

00:26:50.520 Well, she's from New England. 0.80

00:26:52.360 So the, the accent's very different from standard American drawl.

00:26:57.000 Um, and she, she had the theatrical background before moving to Hollywood and becoming a, 0.97

00:27:02.880 uh, a big star.

00:27:04.600 But she always specialised in playing socialites.

00:27:07.500 That was the, the thing, sophisticated women. 1.00

00:27:10.740 And she had experience of coming over to the London West End and performing plays in London.

00:27:17.360 And she did visit the UK quite a lot in her lifetime.

00:27:22.420 So there are certain actors from that golden age of Hollywood who emerged in the 1930s and 40s.

00:27:28.980 And it's interesting to see once they reach 50, how they're going to handle their careers.

00:27:34.500 Because that whole, in the 60s, that whole new wave of filmmakers come along.

00:27:39.660 The actors are getting, the younger actors like O'Toole and then eventually Anthony Hopkins.

00:27:45.340 They bring a different kind of acting dynamic, uh, to things that, um, and, uh, the filmmaking is different.

00:27:56.220 It's, it's kind of more explicit.

00:27:58.160 And how do certain actors handle their careers past the point of 50?

00:28:02.120 And she does it extremely well in the line in the winter. 0.96

00:28:05.380 She can hold her own in a, in a kind of new style of filmmaking with a new generation of younger actors

00:28:12.880 who are just absolutely snapping at her heels.

00:28:17.420 Um, I would say Burt Lancaster was another one.

00:28:20.680 Jack Lemmon's another one that they can move into the 60s, 70s and 80s, um, and adapt their acting styles to the new style of filmmaking.

00:28:28.380 And she's, she's one of the ones who can, you know, um, but, uh, I mean, the, the other favorite film of hers that, um, is the Philadelphia story, 1939 with Jimmy Stewart.

00:28:40.280 Very sophisticated, again, sharp dialogue, but it's played, played for laughs, that one.

00:28:46.400 But it's, um, she can go from being very glamorous for a 12th century noble woman to being kind of disheveled and bedraggled in certain scenes.

00:28:58.320 Um, see, it is, it is, uh, it's probably a flawless performance.

00:29:03.980 And again, her, her accent, because it was, I think, another classic actor who had, who could come to Britain and blend in was Gregory Peck, who has a kind of like toned down American accent, quite rich.

00:29:18.360 Um, and, um, doesn't clash as like overtly American with the British cast.

00:29:24.880 And Hepburn has that as well.

00:29:27.320 Yeah, absolutely.

00:29:27.620 Um, sometimes they call it sort of mid-Atlantic, but, um, just, you know, yeah, New England, well-to-do.

00:29:34.060 Like you say, yeah, it hasn't got a strong American draw to it, absolutely.

00:29:37.800 There's a great bit when she first comes off the boat there, and there's a bit of dialogue where she says, you know, don't worry about me, I'm not weak, I'm not fragile.

00:29:45.500 And I think, you know, that's, that's true of both Eleanor of Aquitaine and Katharine Hepburn.

00:29:51.500 And as you say, she's in her early sixties and, um, uh, still good looking. 0.55

00:29:56.260 And you can obviously tell that she was obviously extremely beautiful as a younger woman.

00:30:00.660 Perfect to play Eleanor of Aquitaine in the 1180s.

00:30:04.380 Just, just perfect.

00:30:05.060 I can't think of any, anybody else could have done that part.

00:30:07.760 She's the, you know, she's the only person at that time.

00:30:11.220 And probably since then who could have played that part.

00:30:14.160 And she is both sort of, as you say, uh, elegant, uh, but, uh, but, you know, is older. 0.94

00:30:20.740 So she's sort of lost, you know, lost that, that, the real beauty of youth.

00:30:25.600 And, you know, that's touched on a couple of times in the film, you know, she jokes to herself, you know, uh, you might be dazzled.

00:30:32.520 You might be blinded by my beauty, obviously being sarcastic.

00:30:36.620 Um, and, uh, yeah, again, it's just, it's, it's cast brilliantly and, and, and acted superbly.

00:30:42.380 And just one other note to say about the real Eleanor of Aquitaine.

00:30:47.020 Uh, she doesn't die until, what, 1204 or something.

00:30:50.800 She lives up beyond, uh, Richard's reign.

00:30:55.300 She lives deeply, she lives into the reign of John.

00:30:58.260 Um, and yeah, she was not weak.

00:31:01.180 She was extremely strong.

00:31:03.200 I know it's a bit of a, a cliche these days to have a strong female leader, you know, a girl boss, all that sort of thing. 1.00

00:31:08.820 But if anyone really was, if anyone really, really was, uh, it would be Eleanor of Aquitaine, a power in her own right, an heiress in her own right. 0.94

00:31:17.620 Didn't really take any crap from men ever.

00:31:21.620 I mean, quite remarkable for the 12th century, really quite remarkable. 0.52

00:31:25.160 Uh, I think one that, I think there's a line that when Henry II did eventually die in 1189,

00:31:31.740 and, um, Richard basically immediately let her out of prison, um, uh, the account say something like,

00:31:40.340 I think maybe even the marshal personally went and let her out.

00:31:44.860 And the account said that she seemed entirely unbroken.

00:31:49.680 Uh, it, that, that experience of being in prison for ages, 15 odd years or something, she'd been in prison.

00:31:54.420 Um, it didn't break, and she's older now.

00:31:57.040 She's definitely in her late 60s or even early 70s by that point.

00:31:59.980 She, it didn't break her.

00:32:01.560 Absolutely remarkable woman.

00:32:03.480 Um, so yeah, to have, uh, to have, uh, Kate Hepburn play her was, uh, it's just superb.

00:32:09.640 To watch the full video, please become a premium member at lotusedis.com.

00:32:13.420 Thank you for listening.

PREVIEW： Epochs #164 ｜ The Lion in Winter

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