The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Epochs #170 ｜ Cato： Part II

00:00:00.380 Hello and welcome to this episode of Epochs where I shall be continuing my narrative of the career and achievements or failures of Cato the Younger and of course the grander story of the decline and fall of the Roman Republic.

00:00:14.020 I think what I'm going to have to do is make Cato a three-parter. If Crassus got three parts, I feel like Cato really should.

00:00:21.220 So what I'll do is in this episode take us through a lot of Cato's political career in Rome all the way up to the actual breakout of hostilities of the civil war between Pompey and Caesar and maybe a few details at the very beginning of that war and then leave it there this time and then in the third episode go into all sorts of detail all about Cato's involvement in the civil war.

00:00:44.660 Okay so let's jump in. So a little bit of a recap if anyone's forgotten or haven't watched the first episode yet. Just to remind everyone that the headline about Cato's career is that he's extremely unbending in his principles to the point where he will damage himself or his own career, sometimes the career of his friends and family, and even damage Rome itself rather than compromise on things.

00:01:10.000 And politics is the art of compromise in all sorts of ways. If you're too unyielding in politics, it will at some point damage you.

00:01:19.660 One example springs to mind is the Duke of Wellington, the victor of Vermeer and Waterloo. After he'd beaten Napoleon and become world famous really, he was Prime Minister, but not for very long, about two years if I recall rightly, and in the end he was ousted from power.

00:01:35.300 His own party sort of cooed him, because he wouldn't bend on certain things. There's a few certain political ideas and principles he had, and he would just refuse to countenance anything else.

00:01:47.560 He just refused, point blank. And so in the end it meant the collapse of his government and the end of his political career, or not the end of his political career, but the end of his time as Prime Minister.

00:01:57.880 So that's how politics often goes, even in the ancient world, and Cato suffered from that.

00:02:04.280 So one example is, he's supposed to be very good friends and political allies with Cicero, but a few times he sort of wronged Cicero, or Cicero sort of wanted or expected Cato to do certain things for him, or argue a certain way for him, in favour of him, and Cato wouldn't.

00:02:21.280 So Cicero, I'll talk all about Cicero in the next biography I do, I'll do Cicero, and his way, he was sort of a centrist or a moderate, he wasn't what we in modern day would call a centrist, but he was a moderate, let's say that, in Roman politics.

00:02:36.260 He was neither, you know, obviously not an authoritarian and had nothing to, would have no truck with the first triumvirate, but also was prepared to blow with the winds a bit, was pragmatic, was a better politician in all sorts of ways.

00:02:50.660 And every now and again he would think that Cato would do the pragmatic thing, sort of the obviously politically astute thing, and Cato wouldn't.

00:03:00.180 Cato would stand on his principles, even if it meant it damaged his career, and damaged their faction, and wounded the Republic, and it exasperated Cicero in all sorts of ways.

00:03:11.560 In fact, he said this in a letter to one of his best friends, Atticus.

00:03:15.760 He said, quote, as for our friend Cato, I have as warm a regard for him as you.

00:03:21.380 The fact remains that with all his patriotism and integrity, he is sometimes a political liability.

00:03:27.240 He speaks in a senate as though he were living in Plato's Republic instead of Romulus's cesspool, end quote.

00:03:34.260 Which is a nice line, Cicero calling Rome Romulus's cesspool, and if anyone would know, it would be Cicero.

00:03:40.820 And so in the last few years, before the actual hot war, the hot hostilities break out between Caesar and Pompey, there's lots and lots of political machinations and back and forth.

00:03:51.220 And I'm going to leave a few things out of this narrative here, because otherwise we'll be going over the same things again and again and again when I talk about Cicero and then Pompey and then Caesar.

00:04:01.400 So I'm not going to talk much about Clodius and Milo's battles, although they will be mentioned.

00:04:07.280 But I won't. I'll leave that detail until the Cicero one, maybe the Pompey one.

00:04:12.380 But I do want to mention about parties and factions.

00:04:16.540 And I've said a bit about it before, but it needs to be stressed here at the beginning of this episode.

00:04:21.580 There were obviously no parties as we have them, political parties as we know them.

00:04:26.080 But there were factions. However, it's really confusing because you could simultaneously be a member of more than one faction and factions that were opposed to each other.

00:04:38.680 And then you switch sides briefly and then come back and then switch sides again.

00:04:43.940 And so it's very, very confusing. No one can really untangle it all perfectly.

00:04:49.500 There's some examples where it's cut and dry. For example, Caesar was a committed popularis and never stopped being a popularis at any point, apart from when he was dictator and he did a few things that might not have been in the people's best interests.

00:05:04.420 But there you go. Whereas someone like Pompey openly switched sides many, many times.

00:05:10.180 I mean, like a dozen or more times.

00:05:11.800 You know, Cato was neither popularis or optimate, but argued for and against both of them at different times.

00:05:19.780 And so there's these factions. There's a layer of detail of this about the factions.

00:05:25.400 Then there's other layers as well about family and about who or who isn't married to who or who or who isn't a nephew or a cousin or a sister-in-law of who.

00:05:37.560 So it gets really confusing. And these different interest groups, let's call them interest groups, completely overlap and it's difficult to untangle.

00:05:47.920 So that's something to bear in mind. And to throw extra complexity on top of that, you've got something like the first triumvirate or just backroom political deals that may fly in the face of all existing interest groups.

00:06:01.160 And they're sort of secret. And so, as I say, it's difficult to untangle.

00:06:06.300 So I said I'd mention Clodius. So let's do that bit then.

00:06:09.060 So Clodius becomes a tribune of the people, which is really quite a powerful office, much more powerful than it used to be in antiquity.

00:06:17.320 You know, after the the Gracchi, the tribune is a powerful thing.

00:06:21.960 And although Sulla tried to cut the legs out from under it after Sulla, because we're now a good 15 years or more after the death of Sulla,

00:06:29.700 the power of the tribune, the People's Tribune, Urban Tribune, has sort of come back into vogue and they're able to manipulate government in all sorts of ways.

00:06:39.320 And this Clodius had been always a part of the Claudian family. He'd legally got himself reduced from a patrician to a plebeian, because only plebs really can be tribunes.

00:06:50.640 So he had to sort of legally renounce his aristocratic credentials so he could become a tribune.

00:06:57.820 But he did that and was. And then, of course, once he became tribune, he played all sorts of games, all sorts of machinations.

00:07:03.900 And he's largely a creature of Pompey, Clodius, but only for a while.

00:07:11.160 So to begin with, Clodius is Pompey's man, but to cut ahead a touch.

00:07:15.840 After a while, he turns against Pompey completely as well, completely turns against him.

00:07:20.160 But for a while, he's Pompey's man and he's attacking Cicero.

00:07:24.160 And in fact, once he brings a case against Cicero, Cicero basically completely loses his nerve.

00:07:29.420 And I'll talk about this in detail in the Cicero one, but completely loses his nerve and goes about literally groveling in the streets of Rome.

00:07:38.080 Weirdly, to the point where no one has sympathy for him. 0.98

00:07:40.520 They just think he's pathetic. 0.97

00:07:42.540 And Clodius and his gang threaten Cicero with either, you know, a severe beating or maybe even death. 0.98

00:07:49.720 And Cicero flees Rome and they burn his house down.

00:07:53.060 I believe I talked about this briefly.

00:07:54.260 Anyway, after a while, after the political winds change, after Clodius has turned against the hand that feeds him, Pompey, and he's sort of working on his own, it seems, people argue about that.

00:08:06.280 It's not sure exactly what game Clodius was playing, the exact game he was playing.

00:08:10.980 Nobody can really tell that he certainly had turned against Pompey.

00:08:14.880 Pompey decides, and others, decide that he would be prudent to bring Cicero back.

00:08:21.220 If nothing else, he'd be a powerful voice against these emerging gang wars.

00:08:26.800 So they bring Cicero back and Cicero, although he'd been a figure of ridicule when he left, was brought back.

00:08:33.360 And the people cheered him as though he was some sort of returning imperator or something.

00:08:37.560 And it's around that same time, or shortly after, that Clodius tries to attack Cato in words in the forum, in the assemblies.

00:08:46.540 And he tries to say that when Cato was governor of Cyprus, he'd embezzled loads of money.

00:08:53.820 Because when Cato returned from Cyprus, he did bring back lots of money for Rome.

00:08:58.480 He tried to claim it was more than Pompey had brought back from the East, but that sort of probably almost certainly isn't true.

00:09:04.660 And nonetheless, he brought back loads of money for Rome, but none for his own pocket.

00:09:08.740 None, as I mentioned in the last episode.

00:09:10.940 But still, Clodius tries to besmirch him, besmirch his good name in public, in the court of public opinion, by saying he did embezzle lots of money.

00:09:20.680 And Cicero stands up in the Senate and denounces Clodius, saying things like, 0.87

00:09:27.220 Clodius is just a criminal, he's a thug. 0.52

00:09:30.380 He shouldn't even have been a tribune in the first place. 0.99

00:09:33.200 He used bribery and all sorts of nefarious mechanisms in order to be a tribune in the first place.

00:09:39.660 So let's unravel all the things he's brought in, all the laws he's brought in, or he was responsible for.

00:09:46.180 Let's repeal or undo all of those, because the whole thing was a hot, stinking mess.

00:09:53.180 And this is really exactly what Cicero has been asked to do.

00:09:56.640 This is what Pompey wants him to do.

00:09:58.660 And you would have thought that Cato would go along with that.

00:10:02.240 But typical Cato, who's being sort of stubborn and difficult, doesn't exactly anyway.

00:10:08.140 Well, Plutarch tells us that this is what happens.

00:10:13.020 Plutarch says, quote,

00:10:13.700 Cato contradicted Cicero while he was speaking, and finally rose and said that,

00:10:19.280 although he was wholly of the opinion that there was nothing sound or good in the administration of Clodius,

00:10:24.740 still, if everything which Clodius had done while tribune was to be rescinded,

00:10:29.920 then all his own proceedings in Cyprus would be rescinded, and his mission there had not been legal,

00:10:35.980 since an illegal magistrate had obtained it for him.

00:10:39.440 But it had not been illegal, he maintained, for Clodius to be elected tribune after a transfer from patrician to plebeian rank,

00:10:46.380 which the law allowed.

00:10:47.880 In consequence of this speech, Cicero was angry with Cato, and for a long time ceased friendly intercourse with him.

00:10:55.000 Afterwards, however, they were reconciled, end quote.

00:10:58.060 Now, I've spent a little bit of time talking about that incident,

00:11:01.520 because there's just quite a few different incidents like that,

00:11:05.100 where people think they're friends with Cato, think they're political allies with Cato,

00:11:10.200 feel like there's no possible reason why Cato would argue against them or be against them.

00:11:15.360 But there's something in Cato's principles or values which force him to argue against them,

00:11:21.860 and so he does.

00:11:23.100 And so he loses lots of friends, politically anyway, by doing that.

00:11:27.780 So although it's admirable, it isn't politically astute.

00:11:33.300 I mean, in the quote I read near the beginning, Cicero calls him a political liability.

00:11:37.780 Yeah, you sort of can't really trust him.

00:11:40.440 I mean, you can trust him to do what he thinks best,

00:11:42.500 but no one really knows what he thinks best most of the time.

00:11:46.620 So in other words, he's a liability.

00:11:48.340 You can't trust that he's always going to go along with a party line or a faction line.

00:11:53.120 You can't trust that he's going to go along with even his own interests.

00:11:58.960 So as a political actor, he is funny, interesting, funny, you know,

00:12:04.840 because he's like a wild card.

00:12:07.020 Quite often he's a wild card.

00:12:08.720 And there are lots more incidents in the political life of Rome,

00:12:12.380 where Cicero's just on the front lines,

00:12:14.480 like trying to prevent certain people from speaking,

00:12:18.700 just physically sitting between people in the Senate or in the assemblies

00:12:24.680 so that they can't converse with each other and hatch plans together.

00:12:29.780 There's just lots and lots of little details, interesting details,

00:12:32.560 about how Cato sort of manipulates events as best he can

00:12:36.500 and increasingly getting himself in trouble.

00:12:39.440 But I suppose things start hotting up massively, sort of undeniably.

00:12:43.120 After the first triumvirate re-establishes itself,

00:12:47.340 and I've mentioned this, Pompey, Crassus and Caesar met in northern Italy

00:12:51.120 at a place called Lucca to reaffirm the backroom details of their triumvirate,

00:12:57.660 their power of three.

00:12:58.960 And it's interesting because a lot of the sources,

00:13:01.600 Appian and Cassius Dio and Pluton,

00:13:03.440 all seem to agree that no one really knew for sure

00:13:06.840 that the first triumvirate was a thing until about this point.

00:13:10.680 Lots of suspected or those with really razor-sharp political acumen

00:13:15.060 sort of knew it, but there was no proof.

00:13:18.400 And yet after this, the events after this meeting at Lucca,

00:13:21.880 it becomes pretty clear and Cato finds himself in a position

00:13:25.760 where he can just sort of start saying it openly.

00:13:27.900 Again, there's no proper evidence.

00:13:29.740 There's nothing written on paper.

00:13:31.680 Obviously, there's no audio recordings of their meeting,

00:13:34.840 but it's become so obvious that there's sort of no denying it.

00:13:39.420 And even if you, and they did, confront Pompey or Crassus,

00:13:44.120 they haven't really got a leg to stand on.

00:13:45.720 They can sort of bluster and try and deny it,

00:13:47.720 but no one would believe them.

00:13:49.280 And they take away things from this meeting at Lucca.

00:13:51.680 The biggest one really is that Caesar gets to keep his command in Gaul

00:13:55.660 for another five years,

00:13:58.180 to be imperator in Gaul for five years.

00:14:00.600 So, you know, the upshot of that is that he's immune to prosecution

00:14:04.480 for bribery or anything else,

00:14:07.100 or for being a triumvir itself, which isn't legal.

00:14:10.200 You know, it flies in the face of the constitution

00:14:13.400 and Roman tradition and government.

00:14:15.740 And Crassus and Pompey get to have another joint consulship.

00:14:19.540 Completely sewing up Roman politics, really.

00:14:22.940 It is bad.

00:14:24.980 It is bad.

00:14:26.000 I mean, it is subverting.

00:14:28.460 The First Triumvirate really is subverting and perverting the Republic.

00:14:33.360 There's just no doubt about that.

00:14:35.280 So, as I say, many historians argue over when the Republic died,

00:14:38.940 and a few of them say it's that meeting at Lucca

00:14:42.080 where the First Triumvirate was sort of re-established or reaffirmed.

00:14:47.800 So I'd say the true Republic died at that moment

00:14:50.580 when the race or the competition to become consul

00:14:54.740 was effectively done away with,

00:14:57.520 or largely done away with,

00:15:00.540 largely subverted.

00:15:02.560 So Plutarch says this about the meeting of Lucca

00:15:05.800 in the life of Cato the Younger.

00:15:07.740 He says, quote,

00:15:08.900 Pompey and Crassus had a meeting with Caesar

00:15:11.140 who had come across the Alps

00:15:12.740 in which they laid a plan to canvass jointly

00:15:15.200 for a second consulship.

00:15:16.960 And after they were established in the office

00:15:19.220 to get a vote passed,

00:15:20.760 giving to Caesar another term in his command.

00:15:23.200 Five years, by the way, was extraordinary.

00:15:25.580 Usually it shouldn't be more than a year.

00:15:27.620 Or maybe if there was an important war going on,

00:15:31.180 maybe two years.

00:15:32.480 So just to have a five-year command

00:15:34.360 followed immediately by another five-year command,

00:15:37.060 I mean, yeah, to call it extraordinary

00:15:39.620 is understating it even.

00:15:41.260 It's unprecedented.

00:15:43.080 Again, it's riding roughshod over tradition fairly badly.

00:15:47.500 Anyway, Plutarch continues,

00:15:48.660 giving Caesar another term in his command,

00:15:51.020 of the same duration as the first,

00:15:53.140 and to themselves, i.e. Pompey and Crassus,

00:15:56.520 the largest provinces, money, and military forces.

00:15:59.960 This was a conspiracy for the division of the supreme power

00:16:03.520 and the abolition of the constitution.

00:16:05.560 And although many honourable men

00:16:07.760 were getting ready to canvas for the consulship at that time,

00:16:11.340 they were all deterred by seeing Pompey and Crassus

00:16:13.780 announce themselves as candidates,

00:16:15.800 excepting only Lucius Domitius,

00:16:18.640 the husband of Cato's sister, Porcia.

00:16:21.400 Him, Cato, persuaded not to withdraw from the canvas

00:16:24.340 or to give way,

00:16:26.180 since the struggle was not for office,

00:16:28.320 but for the liberty of the Romans.

00:16:30.340 End quote.

00:16:30.720 So I think, as I mentioned before,

00:16:32.880 lots of people asked Pompey and Crassus

00:16:35.280 if they were going to run for the consulship that year,

00:16:37.540 and they were very coy and offhand,

00:16:39.140 saying, oh, I don't know, maybe, maybe not,

00:16:41.260 we'll see,

00:16:42.560 trying to play it cool.

00:16:44.400 But then when they had to sort of formally

00:16:45.920 show their hand,

00:16:47.600 everyone realised sort of what was going on,

00:16:49.720 and everyone just gave in.

00:16:51.340 They knew they're the richest, most powerful men,

00:16:54.000 and there's no point standing against them.

00:16:56.260 You're just going to create

00:16:57.320 a really, really powerful political enemy for yourself

00:17:00.240 if you stand against them.

00:17:01.460 But Cato doesn't care about all that sort of thing.

00:17:04.420 And it's around this time that Cato,

00:17:06.180 you know, obviously completely realises

00:17:07.740 that there's some sort of deal has gone on

00:17:10.120 between these three men.

00:17:11.400 And he just starts talking openly,

00:17:13.100 and again, brazenly, bravely, really, I think,

00:17:15.800 you know, very bravely,

00:17:17.380 just starts telling everyone,

00:17:18.900 anyone that will listen,

00:17:20.120 that, look, these three men

00:17:21.360 are destroying the Republic.

00:17:22.840 They mean to make one of them

00:17:24.400 a monarch at some point.

00:17:26.040 They're going to turn Rome

00:17:27.260 into a monarchy again.

00:17:29.400 They're going to keep giving themselves

00:17:30.940 all the greatest commands,

00:17:32.580 all the greatest offices,

00:17:34.500 you know, embezzle all the money.

00:17:37.100 And they're going to basically 0.79

00:17:38.600 kill the government of Rome between them.

00:17:41.460 And now some people either think 0.99

00:17:43.100 that might be a good idea.

00:17:44.240 The old way it's been working

00:17:45.440 hasn't been working very well

00:17:46.860 for a few centuries,

00:17:47.680 so maybe that won't be such a bad thing.

00:17:49.480 Many are partisans of Caesar, Pompey,

00:17:52.460 or Crassus,

00:17:53.420 so they're just on board

00:17:54.400 with that project anyway.

00:17:56.120 Some just don't believe him.

00:17:57.280 Some think he's being a bit paranoid.

00:17:59.200 Some think he's just saying

00:18:00.320 that in his own self-interest.

00:18:01.560 He wants to be the most powerful man

00:18:03.080 politically in Rome.

00:18:04.420 But many do sort of believe him.

00:18:06.680 And after the civil war breaks out,

00:18:08.120 it does seem,

00:18:08.580 a lot of what he's saying

00:18:09.360 does seem prophetic.

00:18:11.080 You know, he's saying at this point

00:18:12.380 quite early on,

00:18:13.060 particularly Caesar,

00:18:14.660 you know, watch out for Caesar.

00:18:16.320 Caesar's going to end up dominating

00:18:17.700 both Pompey and Crassus

00:18:19.540 and end up making himself

00:18:21.280 a king or something.

00:18:22.720 Be wary of him.

00:18:24.300 This is what's going to happen.

00:18:25.980 If you give him another five years in Gaul,

00:18:28.240 he'll come back so rich and powerful

00:18:30.080 that no one and nothing

00:18:33.440 will be able to stand in his way.

00:18:35.160 Just be careful.

00:18:36.260 Just realise what's happening here.

00:18:38.520 In fact, Cato thought it was so important

00:18:40.140 to try and thwart this power of three

00:18:43.200 that he does result to sort of bribery

00:18:45.760 and underhanded measures

00:18:47.160 to try and get his brother-in-law,

00:18:49.860 Domitius, elected to the consulship.

00:18:53.020 So, yeah, this idea that Cato's

00:18:54.700 never, ever, ever unbending,

00:18:56.300 never, ever, ever will result to bribery

00:18:58.120 just isn't true.

00:18:59.760 As I said in the last episode,

00:19:01.140 he obviously just made the political calculation

00:19:02.920 that it's too important.

00:19:05.500 The whole ballgame is at stake here.

00:19:08.320 If I have to bend the rules a tiny bit,

00:19:10.960 then so be it.

00:19:11.840 It just, that's the way it has to be.

00:19:14.020 Otherwise, everything is lost.

00:19:16.040 And so it looks like that Domitius

00:19:18.320 might actually win one of the two consulships.

00:19:21.840 And Pompey and Crassus can't really have that.

00:19:25.260 All their plans wouldn't necessarily,

00:19:26.980 they just wouldn't work if that happened.

00:19:28.980 They both need to be consul

00:19:30.520 in order that there's no real political opposition

00:19:33.060 against them in the Senate

00:19:34.460 for passing through all the laws

00:19:37.240 they'd agreed with themselves.

00:19:38.340 Least of all, an extension of Caesar's generalship

00:19:41.820 his position as Imperator

00:19:43.540 at the head of the Ghoulic armies.

00:19:46.120 Because if one of them have to share the consulship

00:19:48.180 with this Domitius,

00:19:49.060 who is really a creature, a puppet of Cato,

00:19:52.460 then this Domitius is going to thwart them

00:19:54.660 at every turn,

00:19:55.280 just veto as much as he possibly can.

00:19:57.620 And it's really not going to work.

00:19:59.180 So it's crucial, it's vital

00:20:00.700 that both Crassus and Pompey

00:20:02.460 have to be the two consuls for the next year.

00:20:05.520 And they're sort of, they kind of have to,

00:20:07.320 or they're prepared to do almost anything

00:20:09.160 to make sure that happens,

00:20:10.760 including having sort of a fairly mask-off moment,

00:20:14.900 including showing their hand,

00:20:17.160 i.e. using just force and violence

00:20:19.240 to get what they want or what they need, really.

00:20:22.940 And many have said, and it's probably true, 1.00

00:20:24.660 I think, that Cato played a blinder at this point,

00:20:28.820 sort of forcing them to show their hand.

00:20:31.620 Others have argued, that's not a blinder.

00:20:34.240 That's not a good thing.

00:20:35.180 Okay, maybe it was, okay,

00:20:36.560 maybe it won Cato a political battle at the time.

00:20:41.380 You know, it shows that what he'd been saying was true.

00:20:45.520 It reveals Crassus and Pompey and Caesar

00:20:48.500 as at least would-be tyrants.

00:20:51.920 Okay, so Cato wins politically there,

00:20:55.220 or in that sense.

00:20:56.620 But Rome is damaged.

00:20:58.780 The Republic is wounded.

00:21:00.660 You know, it's quite a bad wound.

00:21:03.480 You know, it's very, very close to dying now.

00:21:07.800 So was that a great piece of politicking?

00:21:11.660 Well, you'll make up your own mind.

00:21:13.960 It's sort of both, isn't it?

00:21:15.740 So this is what Plutarch tells us about

00:21:17.520 when Pompey, Crassus, but particularly Pompey,

00:21:20.500 really, because he's the army man.

00:21:23.080 He's the famous military commander.

00:21:25.120 How he shows his hand.

00:21:26.800 Plutarch says this, quote,

00:21:27.620 This was precisely what the patricians of Pompey feared,

00:21:31.840 i.e. that Domitius would sort of insist

00:21:34.080 on running for consulship.

00:21:35.640 They feared that that would happen.

00:21:37.020 And so they set an ambush for Domitius

00:21:39.160 as he was going down at early morning

00:21:41.420 by torchlight into the campus Martius.

00:21:43.820 First of all, the torchbearer who stood in front of Domitius

00:21:46.580 was smitten, fell, and died.

00:21:49.260 And after him, the rest of the party were presently wounded

00:21:51.720 and all took to flight except Cato and Domitius.

00:21:54.980 For Cato held Domitius back,

00:21:57.480 although he himself had received a wound in the arm

00:22:00.240 and exhorted him to stand his ground

00:22:02.740 and not to abandon, while he had breath,

00:22:05.640 the struggle in behalf of liberty

00:22:07.300 which they were waging against the tyrants,

00:22:10.280 who showed plainly how they would use the consular power

00:22:13.160 by making their way to it through such crimes.

00:22:16.380 End quote.

00:22:16.640 So Cato himself is even wounded by some of Pompey's men,

00:22:20.620 some of Pompey's partisans.

00:22:22.260 But nonetheless, yeah, their mask is off now. 0.94

00:22:24.040 They will just intimidate and murder, if need be,

00:22:27.700 anyone that's sort of standing in their way.

00:22:29.860 You know, they're not as brutal,

00:22:31.060 nowhere near as brutal as Marius or Sulla,

00:22:33.880 or perhaps even not quite as brutal as some other periods

00:22:37.220 like the Gracchire, or the Gracchire's enemies rather.

00:22:40.220 But still, the bottom line is,

00:22:42.240 if they need to run you out of town

00:22:44.600 at the point of assault or kill you, 0.79

00:22:46.640 then they will. 0.94

00:22:48.300 When it comes to the most vital votes,

00:22:51.480 they will do that.

00:22:52.640 Anyway, it's enough to work on this Domitius.

00:22:55.400 He decides that, you know,

00:22:56.620 he doesn't want any of this.

00:22:58.000 He doesn't want to end up murdered

00:23:00.260 and thrown in the Tiber.

00:23:03.040 You know, Cato's got sort of an endless reserve

00:23:05.640 of guts and nerve,

00:23:08.440 but this Domitius hasn't.

00:23:09.840 So he decides just to stay at home after that.

00:23:13.580 That's plenty to intimidate Domitius.

00:23:16.840 Plutarch says, quote,

00:23:18.000 But Domitius would not face the peril

00:23:19.840 and fled to his home as for refuge,

00:23:23.380 whereupon Pompey and Crassus were elected consuls.

00:23:27.140 Cato, however, would not give up the fight

00:23:29.240 and came forward himself as a candidate

00:23:32.240 for a praetorship, end quote.

00:23:34.920 But Crassus and Pompey don't want Cato

00:23:36.840 to even have a praetorship

00:23:38.100 because then he would have a powerful position,

00:23:41.780 you know, still junior and inferior to a consul,

00:23:45.060 but still up there,

00:23:46.320 still one of the dozen or so,

00:23:49.260 less than a dozen,

00:23:50.140 most powerful men in the state.

00:23:51.880 He would be right next to the cockpit of power,

00:23:54.720 if not in it.

00:23:55.360 And that would be uncomfortable for Pompey and Crassus,

00:23:58.980 and they don't want that.

00:24:00.220 So they're prepared to thwart his run

00:24:03.120 to be a praetor as well.

00:24:05.460 And it seems there wasn't much

00:24:06.540 they wouldn't resort to.

00:24:08.400 For example, there's a very, very old law,

00:24:12.400 or not even a law,

00:24:13.180 I think it's more like a precedent in Rome,

00:24:15.920 that you shouldn't rubber stamp laws

00:24:18.340 or have votes during a thunderstorm.

00:24:21.880 The idea being,

00:24:22.800 and this dates back hundreds and hundreds of years

00:24:24.440 before this,

00:24:25.600 that thunder and lightning, Zeus,

00:24:28.480 he's in a tumult.

00:24:30.300 He's in a tempest when there's a thunderstorm.

00:24:32.760 And so it's just inadvisable

00:24:34.320 to be passing laws at that time.

00:24:36.940 Okay, that was sort of a precedent they had.

00:24:40.100 But Roman politics had become so corrupt

00:24:42.160 that now that was just used as an excuse.

00:24:45.120 People would say,

00:24:45.740 oh no, there's a thunderstorm,

00:24:47.460 so we can't do any business today.

00:24:50.580 We certainly can't have that crucial vote,

00:24:52.700 which we need to do.

00:24:54.320 And then it got even more out of hand,

00:24:56.500 where people would just say,

00:24:57.300 oh, I think I've heard a rumble of thunder

00:24:59.780 in the distance.

00:25:00.920 And there wasn't any.

00:25:01.960 They're like, no,

00:25:02.380 but I'm pretty sure I heard a rumble of thunder,

00:25:04.180 so therefore we can't do any business today

00:25:06.240 and shut everything down

00:25:07.200 and we can't have a vote

00:25:08.080 and everything's off.

00:25:09.960 And that got used to the point of absurdity, really.

00:25:16.700 And it's flimsy, isn't it?

00:25:18.920 It's obviously flimsy to us,

00:25:21.060 but even to the Romans of the first century BC,

00:25:23.400 it was really fake and phony 0.60

00:25:26.940 and flimsy as hell. 0.95

00:25:28.180 And just a really lame get-out.

00:25:31.640 And so when the day of the vote comes

00:25:33.100 for Cato to be made a creator,

00:25:36.140 Pompey just sort of thwarts all the proceedings

00:25:38.500 because the first votes came through,

00:25:40.960 the first tribes,

00:25:42.400 blocks of votes came through,

00:25:44.460 and they came through in favour of Cato.

00:25:47.020 And it was thought that largely the first block,

00:25:49.240 the first votes that came through,

00:25:51.200 whoever they were for,

00:25:52.080 usually went on to win.

00:25:53.280 Not always, but very quite often.

00:25:55.840 Like in the presidential election,

00:25:57.860 if you win Michigan and New Hampshire and Ohio,

00:26:00.540 you're probably going to win the whole thing.

00:26:02.880 Same sort of thing going on.

00:26:04.400 And so the first block of votes come through

00:26:06.220 in favour of Cato.

00:26:07.620 And so Pompey just pulls this trick.

00:26:10.740 To watch the full video,

00:26:12.040 please become a premium member

00:26:13.180 at lotusedars.com.

00:26:14.420 adults allys.

00:26:15.480 Individuals and Employee

00:26:16.380 disabilities.

00:26:16.960 There's no price weighing on

00:26:17.960 whether there's a law firm

00:26:18.720 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:19.900 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:20.460 or whether it's a company

00:26:21.800 of Cato to be proven

00:26:22.460 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:23.620 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:23.660 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:25.520 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:25.800 or subject matter

00:26:26.380 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:27.120 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:28.080 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:28.820 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:29.360 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:29.740 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:30.840 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:31.280 or whether a law firm

00:26:31.800 or whether it's a degree

00:26:33.040 or not chimney

00:26:33.980 or whether it's a law firm

00:26:34.340 or what itป hedge

00:26:35.120 or whether it's a law firm

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - August 04, 2024

PREVIEW： Epochs #170 ｜ Cato： Part II

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript