The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

00:00:00.240 Hello and welcome to this episode of Epochs, where once again I shall be continuing my story of the decline and fall of the Roman Republic.

00:00:07.640 Last time, if you remember, I finished up, more or less, my story of Caesar's campaigns in Gaul.

00:00:14.200 And as promised, I said I'll go back a fair few years and tell you what happened in Rome during all that time.

00:00:19.580 And the story of Pompey, this mini-series, although it's not that small of a series, is it?

00:00:24.400 This mini-series is supposed to be about both Caesar and Pompey because their lives and careers are so heavily entwined.

00:00:30.580 So, let's go back to Rome in the 60s BC and talk about what happened with Pompey.

00:00:37.540 Okay, today I'll be reading from Appian and Plutarch.

00:00:41.620 And also, if you've watched them, I have already done episodes on Crassus and Cato.

00:00:47.880 So, shall be covering some of the same ground again, but from a slightly different angle, perhaps.

00:00:52.620 So, let's pick up with Appian, more or less, when Caesar leaves Rome for his French campaigns.

00:01:00.580 So, Appian tells us this, quote,

00:01:02.560 Caesar realised that his absence from Rome would be prolonged and that the resentment felt towards him would be all the greater because of the enormous favours he granted.

00:01:11.160 See, now, Caesar knows that the election he had just before he left Rome to become consul,

00:01:17.760 and when he, Pompey and Crassus, formed the first triumvirate in secret.

00:01:22.120 Though it wasn't all that secret, Cato cottoned onto it pretty quickly.

00:01:25.280 Either way, he knows that that, plus the election he had before that to become Pontifex Maximus,

00:01:30.000 he knows that once he leaves office and he no longer has immunity from prosecution,

00:01:35.160 he knows that he's going to be prosecuted for all sorts of things.

00:01:38.520 So, he knows he's sort of on borrowed time, that is, unless he can keep a string of offices going.

00:01:43.820 But he knows that Cato and all of Cato's people, his faction, they will try and get him.

00:01:49.160 So, he's got a few years to try and untangle all of that and save himself from being ruined,

00:01:54.860 if not actually imprisoned or exiled or even executed.

00:01:58.400 Appian continues,

00:01:59.120 So, he, Caesar, married his daughter to Pompey, although she was engaged to Capio,

00:02:04.800 and someone else called Capio.

00:02:06.140 Caesar sort of forced her to break that engagement and marry Pompey,

00:02:09.240 who was much, much older than Caesar's daughter.

00:02:11.460 He's a little bit older than Caesar.

00:02:12.820 So, he's much, much older than Caesar's daughter, Julia.

00:02:15.380 And yet, I've said before, I will be repeating myself a bit in this one,

00:02:18.420 they actually fell in love.

00:02:19.920 Pompey certainly, absolutely, genuinely fell in love with Julia,

00:02:22.520 to the point where the normal people of Rome, the scuttlebutt around the city of Rome,

00:02:26.240 was that he was too in love with her, that it was embarrassing,

00:02:28.700 that a good Roman man doesn't really fall head over heels in love with his wife.

00:02:33.400 There's something not quite right about that. 0.81

00:02:35.340 All the great men are philanderers.

00:02:37.880 But Pompey did absolutely fall in love with her,

00:02:39.920 and it seems, even though he was much older,

00:02:41.560 she genuinely liked him,

00:02:42.700 and there's no accounts or no evidence that she was sort of repulsed by him

00:02:45.940 or was terribly upset that she was forced to marry him or anything.

00:02:49.380 So, but that is important, that marriage alliance.

00:02:51.520 If you remember before this, when Pompey was casting around for allies,

00:02:56.240 he tried to marry into Cato's family, tried to marry someone in his family to Cato,

00:03:01.440 but Cato wouldn't have that.

00:03:02.840 So, just again, to put it in a bit of context so everyone's clear,

00:03:05.620 we've already had the Catiline conspiracy,

00:03:08.320 we've already had Pompey defeating Mithridates and the pirates,

00:03:11.800 we've already had, of course, the war with Spartacus,

00:03:14.320 and so there's all these alliances forming.

00:03:16.720 So Cato and Cicero are sort of for the Senate,

00:03:20.300 Optimate, Cicero's a bit of a special case.

00:03:22.440 Perhaps after this miniseries is finished,

00:03:24.720 I'll do an episode or two just talking about Cicero.

00:03:27.400 A lot of the time, Cicero is a bit of a wild card,

00:03:30.140 although Cato is something of a wild card.

00:03:32.060 He's not in the sense that you know that he's always going to stand on his principles

00:03:35.420 and you know what those principles are.

00:03:37.140 So it might be maddening that he does that,

00:03:39.080 but you sort of know where you are.

00:03:40.640 You can rely on him to stand on his principles.

00:03:43.060 Whereas Cicero bends with the winds a bit more.

00:03:45.420 So Cicero's alliances come and go, you know.

00:03:48.260 So for example, Cicero is a big fan, pretty much a big fan of Pompey.

00:03:52.520 And at this stage anyway, he's sort of kind of suspicious of Caesar,

00:03:55.660 but doesn't hate his guts, but is absolutely not a fan,

00:03:58.960 kind of hates Crassus and has a funny relationship with Cato.

00:04:03.300 Nominally, they're absolutely on the same page,

00:04:05.180 but sometimes Cato does things that aren't in Cicero's interest

00:04:07.880 or baffles Cicero in all sorts of ways.

00:04:10.640 So although they're on the same side,

00:04:13.080 they're not always exactly on the same page.

00:04:14.960 So that's Cicero.

00:04:16.100 Crassus and Pompey hate each other.

00:04:17.820 They kind of absolutely hate each other

00:04:19.000 because still Caesar is kind of, well, definitely is still the junior

00:04:23.220 out of the three triumvirs, Crassus, Pompey and Caesar.

00:04:26.100 Caesar is still the junior partner very much.

00:04:28.500 Crassus is the richest man in Rome and is old,

00:04:31.420 sort of in his late 50s, knocking 60.

00:04:33.260 And Pompey is absolutely most decorated general of the age, easily.

00:04:37.800 So Pompey and Crassus are the two big hitters out of the three.

00:04:40.880 And they hate each other, even though they work together

00:04:42.600 and they've been consuls together before, haven't they?

00:04:44.480 If you remember, they couldn't actually get anything done really

00:04:46.720 during that year when they shared the consulship

00:04:48.720 because they sort of still see Caesar as the junior partner

00:04:52.400 and that each of them are the other's main rival

00:04:55.240 to be the preeminent man of Rome.

00:04:58.120 So although they haven't resulted to sort of murdering each other

00:05:01.320 or anything like that, they are certainly politically complete enemies.

00:05:05.260 So that's something to have to bear in mind the whole time.

00:05:07.640 And Caesar's sort of trying to play them off against each other

00:05:10.060 wherever he can or begins to anyway.

00:05:12.180 Caesar is friends with Crassus.

00:05:14.480 Crassus lent him loads of money, for example.

00:05:16.620 And he's sort of friends with Pompey.

00:05:18.460 Well, they are friends.

00:05:19.560 Well, certainly now that Pompey has married his daughter,

00:05:22.820 that is quite a good alliance, quite a firm alliance.

00:05:25.740 But out of all of these three, the real reality is

00:05:28.720 that you can't really escape,

00:05:29.600 is that each man wants to be the preeminent man of Rome.

00:05:32.580 So they're friends and enemies to varying extents.

00:05:35.320 Again, it's not a complete cutthroat situation

00:05:37.460 where it's just a matter of time

00:05:39.420 till one of them gets the other murdered.

00:05:41.620 None of them are best, best friends.

00:05:43.860 So it's a delicate balancing act.

00:05:46.760 But certainly the marriage alliance between Pompey and Caesar

00:05:49.500 sort of helps balance the balancing act to some degree.

00:05:53.100 Okay, Appian continues.

00:05:54.400 After Pompey married Julia,

00:05:56.700 he tells us that Pompey did that.

00:05:59.020 Appian goes on to tell us that, quote,

00:06:01.680 he, Caesar,

00:06:03.060 also placed the staunchest of his supporters

00:06:05.260 in the magistracies of the coming year.

00:06:07.740 He announced the election of Ulius Gabinius,

00:06:10.440 one of his friends, as consul,

00:06:12.520 and himself married Colpurnia,

00:06:14.560 the daughter of Gabinius' fellow consul-elect,

00:06:17.620 Lucius Piso.

00:06:18.620 This caused Cato to exclaim

00:06:20.480 that political primacy was now procured by marriage-broking.

00:06:24.200 Cato always had a dim view of that,

00:06:26.060 that women should be involved in the balance of power in any real way. 1.00

00:06:30.280 Cato was, of course, super old school.

00:06:32.500 The sort of mid, he had sort of values and ideas,

00:06:35.600 sort of mid-republic era.

00:06:37.400 But so Caesar's trying to set up, get all his ducks in a row,

00:06:40.160 so that there'll be people in Rome while he's away

00:06:42.640 that can sort of bat for him,

00:06:44.380 try and make sure that his position

00:06:45.680 isn't just completely destroyed or undermined.

00:06:47.920 You know, through political machinations,

00:06:50.400 he's somehow stripped of his command

00:06:52.460 and brought back to face charges or anything like that.

00:06:54.900 So he's playing a game from afar,

00:06:57.220 and he absolutely needs Pompey and Crassus,

00:06:59.540 as well as other people, like Gabinius and Piso,

00:07:02.120 to be defending his position at all times,

00:07:04.880 for years on end.

00:07:05.840 It's a difficult, it is a really difficult political game

00:07:08.180 he's got to play.

00:07:09.060 He's got no choice.

00:07:10.040 His enemies are implacable.

00:07:11.260 Cato is implacable.

00:07:13.060 We'll get him if he can.

00:07:14.960 Appian continues.

00:07:15.680 As tribunes, he, again Caesar, 0.94

00:07:18.720 chose Vatinius and Clodius Pulcher.

00:07:22.380 So Clodius, again, he's part of that fashionable set

00:07:27.280 among the popularis.

00:07:28.960 Caesar is, of course, a staunch popularis,

00:07:31.060 always was, always will remain so.

00:07:33.220 Clodius Pulcher is the other main leading light

00:07:35.720 in that faction.

00:07:36.960 So Caesar making sure, putting strings,

00:07:40.580 so that Clodius can become a tribune of the people. 0.52

00:07:43.340 If you remember, I told you that Clodius

00:07:45.700 is part of the Claudian family,

00:07:47.780 one of the most blue-blooded families there is in Rome,

00:07:50.560 and that he had to renounce his patricianship.

00:07:53.520 He had to sort of formally, legally renounce

00:07:55.820 the fact that he was an aristocrat

00:07:57.640 in order to become a tribune,

00:07:59.180 because patricians can't become tribunes. 0.99

00:08:00.840 Tribunes are supposed to be the champion of the people.

00:08:04.220 So Caesar sort of allows that to happen,

00:08:06.260 in fact oversees it,

00:08:07.340 so that Pulcher can then be a tribune.

00:08:08.800 And it's the republic still,

00:08:11.100 so tribunes are still very, very powerful.

00:08:12.900 Once we get into the empire,

00:08:14.260 and certainly the later imperial period,

00:08:17.120 tribunes are not powerful,

00:08:18.680 or nowhere near as powerful, anyway.

00:08:20.400 Whereas here, in the 50s, 60s and 50s BC,

00:08:24.360 tribunes can still be extremely powerful.

00:08:27.040 They can still bring government to a screeching halt,

00:08:29.880 and be a fly in the ointment of much more powerful people,

00:08:35.140 of the consuls themselves.

00:08:36.620 They can veto many laws and all sorts of things.

00:08:40.180 And Pulcher, of course, is going to be both going to bat for Caesar,

00:08:43.520 but more, really, going to bat for the popularis cause,

00:08:47.860 and eventually for himself,

00:08:49.440 because he is extremely ambitious.

00:08:51.020 As a Claudian, he will expect to be right at the heart of things,

00:08:55.000 come what may. 0.99

00:08:55.680 And he's a bit of a crazy man. 0.98

00:08:56.940 If you remember when I talked about him, 0.78

00:08:58.340 I must have talked about him during the Crassus episodes,

00:09:00.840 and the Cato episodes.

00:09:02.220 You know, he was the one that was caught,

00:09:03.840 disguised as a woman,

00:09:05.000 perhaps trying to bed Caesar's old wife. 1.00

00:09:07.560 So he's a crazy, he's a bit of a crazy man, wild man. 0.99

00:09:10.500 And first up on his list of people to do away with, 0.98

00:09:13.800 people that might undermine the popularis cause and Caesar,

00:09:17.080 and because of just a personal vendetta, is Cicero.

00:09:20.500 So on that, Appian tells us,

00:09:21.900 quote,

00:09:22.160 The latter, Clodius,

00:09:23.740 had once been suspected of having sexual designs on Caesar's own wife

00:09:27.460 when he was caught at a religious ceremony for women.

00:09:30.680 Caesar himself, in spite of divorcing his wife,

00:09:33.120 because Caesar's wife must be above suspicion,

00:09:35.460 had taken no legal action against Clodius

00:09:37.560 because of his great popularity with the people.

00:09:40.360 Of course, the people love,

00:09:41.980 absolutely love Clodius because he's their champion.

00:09:44.360 But others prosecuted Clodius for sacrilege

00:09:46.880 at the sacred ceremony,

00:09:48.360 and Cicero lent his support to the accusers.

00:09:51.160 If you remember,

00:09:52.040 the Senate had a tribunal to decide

00:09:53.920 whether they were going to put Clodius formally on trial for that.

00:09:58.020 And Cicero spoke against him.

00:10:00.100 And then in the end,

00:10:00.700 he was acquitted anyway because of bribery.

00:10:03.180 But Clodius did not forget that.

00:10:04.980 He didn't forget that Cicero tried to sink him,

00:10:07.280 tried to get him exiled.

00:10:08.900 Clodius holds a grudge.

00:10:10.780 And yeah, there's no way he's going to forget

00:10:13.880 what Cicero tried to do to him.

00:10:15.660 Appian again.

00:10:16.120 Though called as a witness,

00:10:17.900 Caesar did not denounce him

00:10:19.120 and now made him tribune

00:10:20.800 as a way of plotting against Cicero,

00:10:23.120 who was already blackening the compact

00:10:25.040 of the three men to secure sole power.

00:10:28.020 In this way,

00:10:29.040 their needs outweighed their grievances

00:10:30.700 and they did a favour to one enemy

00:10:32.860 in order to avenge themselves on another.

00:10:35.320 And it seems that it was Clodius

00:10:36.780 who first repaid Caesar

00:10:38.200 by helping him to the Gallic command.

00:10:41.220 Such were Caesar's actions as consul,

00:10:43.240 that is in the year before he goes to Gaul.

00:10:44.740 And as soon as he laid his office down,

00:10:47.160 he immediately left Rome to take up the next,

00:10:49.740 i.e. the commanding gall.

00:10:52.400 Clodius impeached Cicero

00:10:53.960 for breach of the constitution

00:10:55.720 because he had put Lentulus and Cetagus

00:10:58.620 and their followers to death without trial.

00:11:01.620 So that's a reference to the Catiline conspiracy.

00:11:05.320 I've got a whole episode in conversation

00:11:07.400 all about the Catiline conspiracy.

00:11:09.460 And the way that was dealt with,

00:11:10.600 it seems that there was some sort of true conspiracy

00:11:12.740 by the Senator Catiline

00:11:14.780 to sort of maybe do a military coup d'etat,

00:11:17.840 maybe do something along the lines of Sulla,

00:11:20.160 entering Rome with a body of men

00:11:21.660 and just proclaiming yourself

00:11:22.780 just de facto ruler through force.

00:11:25.480 It seems like something like that was afoot.

00:11:28.080 And when it was thwarted,

00:11:29.620 Cicero happened to be consul at the time.

00:11:32.020 This is back in the 60s BC.

00:11:33.980 In order to deal with it,

00:11:35.580 he just arbitrarily had them executed.

00:11:39.380 And that was against the law.

00:11:41.400 You know, there was still due process,

00:11:43.360 certainly for full Roman citizens,

00:11:45.240 certainly for senators and things.

00:11:46.660 And Cicero did ride roughshort over that.

00:11:48.760 Now, at the time,

00:11:50.040 he was hailed a hero,

00:11:51.440 a saviour of Rome for doing that,

00:11:52.700 that he acted quickly.

00:11:53.600 He needed to act quickly

00:11:55.180 to save Rome from some sort of immediate peril.

00:11:57.960 And the fact that he did,

00:11:59.300 he was lauded for it at the time.

00:12:00.960 But now, in hindsight,

00:12:02.140 now Clodius is a tribune

00:12:03.380 and sort of bring lawsuits against people.

00:12:05.940 He's dragging that up.

00:12:07.960 But it was illegal, though.

00:12:09.200 So by letter of the law,

00:12:11.240 Clodius can do this.

00:12:12.440 And so he does.

00:12:13.800 And Appian tells us how Cicero reacted

00:12:15.760 to having a very serious lawsuit

00:12:18.360 brought against him.

00:12:19.540 Appian says, quote,

00:12:20.420 Although Cicero had displayed

00:12:22.180 a most noble spirit of resolution

00:12:23.980 in the affair itself,

00:12:25.940 the Catalan conspiracy,

00:12:27.060 when it came to being prosecuted,

00:12:28.740 he collapsed. 0.88

00:12:29.800 He put on miserable clothing

00:12:31.120 and threw himself down

00:12:32.720 covered in filth and squalor

00:12:34.120 in front of those he met in the streets,

00:12:36.840 without even being ashamed

00:12:38.160 of bothering people

00:12:39.320 who knew nothing of the matter.

00:12:40.900 So that thanks to his inappropriate behaviour,

00:12:43.680 he became a figure of fun

00:12:44.920 instead of an object of pity.

00:12:46.600 So Cicero reacted poorly to this.

00:12:50.940 He didn't have a stiff upper lip.

00:12:53.480 He sort of,

00:12:54.000 it seems like he sort of collapsed a bit.

00:12:57.400 And, you know,

00:12:57.860 Appian suggests that he was trying

00:12:59.020 to garner pity.

00:13:00.760 But everyone just thought 0.99

00:13:01.760 it was pathetic. 0.96

00:13:02.780 See this, 0.98

00:13:03.340 the one-time consul of Rome

00:13:05.880 and great man,

00:13:06.740 one of the most famous lawyers,

00:13:09.360 prosecutors of his age,

00:13:12.060 one of the greatest orators

00:13:13.260 that Rome had,

00:13:15.300 reduced himself to,

00:13:17.100 what is it,

00:13:17.800 filth and squalor

00:13:18.800 in the streets

00:13:19.660 and that people just laughed at him.

00:13:22.140 So it is a bit funny there,

00:13:23.560 sees that Cicero

00:13:24.280 lost his nerve,

00:13:25.660 it seems.

00:13:26.600 Or perhaps it was just a ploy,

00:13:28.820 as I say,

00:13:29.380 to garner pity,

00:13:30.220 but it backfired.

00:13:31.480 Public opinion

00:13:32.080 didn't have sympathy for him

00:13:34.020 for whatever reason.

00:13:36.120 Appian continues,

00:13:36.820 such was the state of cowardice

00:13:38.980 he fell into

00:13:39.680 under a single case

00:13:40.800 which involved himself,

00:13:42.620 a man who had all his life

00:13:44.340 won a brilliant reputation

00:13:45.480 in the case of others.

00:13:47.000 In like manner,

00:13:48.100 they say Demosthenes,

00:13:49.360 the Athenian,

00:13:50.320 did not even wait

00:13:51.080 for his case to be decided,

00:13:52.780 but went into exile

00:13:53.980 before his trial.

00:13:55.640 When Clodius even insulted him

00:13:57.680 by interrupting his pleas

00:13:59.420 in the street,

00:14:00.760 Cicero abandoned all hope

00:14:02.140 and, like Demosthenes,

00:14:04.000 embraced exile voluntarily.

00:14:06.120 So, according to other accounts,

00:14:07.440 apparently in the life

00:14:08.700 of Cicero and things,

00:14:09.500 what happened was

00:14:10.120 Cicero is in the streets

00:14:12.020 sort of trying to garner pity 0.99

00:14:13.260 but just seeming pathetic. 0.96

00:14:15.120 Clodius and his toughs, 1.00

00:14:16.860 his thugs, 0.88

00:14:17.520 his gang, 0.92

00:14:18.380 his mob,

00:14:19.380 come up to Cicero

00:14:20.220 and basically threaten him.

00:14:21.980 It's still not enough

00:14:22.620 that he's been reduced to that

00:14:23.700 for Clodius.

00:14:24.820 Clodius is then like,

00:14:26.180 you better watch out,

00:14:26.960 it's basically words to the effect of

00:14:28.260 you better watch out

00:14:29.400 or, you know,

00:14:29.960 you're going to have an accident

00:14:31.100 if you're not careful.

00:14:32.620 In other words,

00:14:33.760 probably best if you leave town

00:14:35.280 or we're going to badly 0.99

00:14:36.480 assault you 1.00

00:14:37.240 or kill you. 1.00

00:14:38.020 That is the type of person 1.00

00:14:38.960 Clodius is,

00:14:39.840 there's no doubt about that.

00:14:40.860 He's, you know, 0.99

00:14:41.680 a killer, 1.00

00:14:42.620 a gangster. 0.99

00:14:43.500 And anyway,

00:14:43.920 Cicero doesn't have to be told twice

00:14:45.560 so he just flees.

00:14:47.760 Appian gives us the parallel

00:14:49.400 of Demosthenes.

00:14:50.800 But Cicero,

00:14:51.920 he's no fighter,

00:14:53.420 right?

00:14:53.840 He's not about to try

00:14:55.440 and muster a gang

00:14:57.080 or a mob of his own

00:14:58.220 and have street fights

00:15:00.260 with Clodius' mob

00:15:01.180 or have any sort of

00:15:02.660 one-on-one combat

00:15:03.540 with Clodius' fight,

00:15:05.020 whether it be with daggers

00:15:06.200 or swords

00:15:06.660 or fisticuffs

00:15:07.380 or clubs

00:15:07.960 or whatever

00:15:08.460 in the street

00:15:09.380 with Clodius.

00:15:09.920 That's not how Cicero rolls.

00:15:12.040 He feels he's got no option.

00:15:13.060 Probably he doesn't have any option

00:15:14.160 at this point

00:15:14.660 but flee.

00:15:16.260 So he does leave Rome

00:15:17.320 that's sort of a self-imposed exile

00:15:19.040 and he hates it.

00:15:20.300 He very, very much resents it.

00:15:22.380 Appian continues telling us,

00:15:23.460 A crowd of friends

00:15:24.760 accompanied him

00:15:25.680 out of the city

00:15:26.740 and the senate sent letters

00:15:28.340 commending him

00:15:29.360 to cities, kings

00:15:31.200 and petty rulers.

00:15:32.780 So he shan't have to live

00:15:33.740 in poverty at least.

00:15:35.220 Clodius pulled down

00:15:36.400 his townhouse

00:15:37.500 and his country residences

00:15:39.400 and was so elated by this

00:15:41.120 that he now compared himself

00:15:42.480 to Pompey

00:15:43.180 who was the most powerful man

00:15:44.640 in Rome.

00:15:45.500 So Clodius,

00:15:46.460 not content with

00:15:47.580 humiliating Cicero,

00:15:49.840 destroying him politically

00:15:50.980 and threatening him

00:15:52.420 to the point

00:15:52.840 where he has to literally flee

00:15:54.100 for his life.

00:15:55.340 He also destroys his houses.

00:15:57.440 So Clodius is not

00:15:58.800 someone to mess with.

00:16:00.300 Clodius plays for keeps

00:16:01.820 always.

00:16:03.020 As I say, 0.99

00:16:03.360 he's a bit of a crazy man, 0.99

00:16:04.580 a bit of a wild man. 0.96

00:16:05.760 Appian continues,

00:16:06.880 The latter, however,

00:16:08.080 Pompey,

00:16:08.820 encouraged Milo

00:16:09.800 who was more audacious

00:16:11.120 than Clodius

00:16:11.920 so that's pretty audacious

00:16:13.160 and had succeeded him

00:16:14.980 in office

00:16:15.560 to hope for the consulship.

00:16:17.560 So Milo's a tribune now

00:16:18.940 and he's in the pocket

00:16:20.020 of Pompey.

00:16:20.960 He's Pompey's man

00:16:21.540 in all sorts of ways.

00:16:22.320 And incited him

00:16:23.600 to oppose Clodius.

00:16:25.220 He also instructed him

00:16:26.380 to put through a bill

00:16:27.580 for Cicero's return

00:16:28.700 in the hope that

00:16:29.600 when Cicero appeared

00:16:30.540 he would be induced

00:16:31.800 by his memory

00:16:32.860 of what he had suffered

00:16:34.100 to say no more

00:16:35.240 about the current

00:16:35.860 political scene

00:16:36.700 but would embroil Clodius

00:16:38.200 in legal proceedings

00:16:39.600 and other complications.

00:16:41.720 Right,

00:16:42.020 so that's quite a big thing

00:16:43.060 there that's happened.

00:16:44.240 Pompey has decided

00:16:45.440 that he's had enough

00:16:47.420 of Clodius

00:16:48.000 because Clodius

00:16:49.480 by this stage

00:16:50.640 I've mentioned this

00:16:51.440 in the Crassus one

00:16:52.080 and probably the Cato one

00:16:53.380 as well

00:16:53.620 that Clodius is becoming

00:16:55.320 some sort of de facto

00:16:56.380 ruler of Rome

00:16:57.440 that his mob

00:16:58.380 his gang

00:16:59.040 they can force the Assembly

00:17:00.980 or the Senate

00:17:02.180 to do what they will

00:17:03.580 and so this tribune

00:17:04.840 is you know

00:17:05.860 once again

00:17:06.560 a troublesome tribune

00:17:08.140 is subverting

00:17:10.280 the Roman state

00:17:11.240 the Roman Republic

00:17:12.120 and he's even started

00:17:13.740 in on Pompey himself

00:17:15.420 now he's got rid of Cicero

00:17:17.020 it obviously emboldened him

00:17:18.420 even more

00:17:19.100 and he actually starts

00:17:20.600 on Pompey

00:17:21.440 and Pompey's party

00:17:22.380 Pompey's faction

00:17:23.180 in fact Clodius even

00:17:24.780 had some of his men

00:17:26.100 sort of posted 24-7

00:17:28.200 outside Pompey's house

00:17:30.160 and whenever Pompey

00:17:31.240 would come or go

00:17:31.920 they would sort of

00:17:32.520 jeer at him

00:17:33.120 or even throw rotten veg

00:17:35.220 things like that

00:17:35.920 to sort of undermine him

00:17:37.140 or unsettle him

00:17:38.100 or to just sort of

00:17:39.240 send him the message

00:17:40.380 that even the great

00:17:41.920 Pompey

00:17:42.480 who celebrated

00:17:43.320 three triumphs

00:17:44.460 he's the greatest

00:17:45.040 military man of the age

00:17:45.940 even he

00:17:46.920 is going to need

00:17:48.360 to submit

00:17:49.600 to the reality

00:17:50.720 that Clodius is

00:17:51.720 in control

00:17:52.480 in Rome

00:17:53.180 well Pompey won't have that

00:17:54.840 Pompey's a different man

00:17:56.060 to Cicero

00:17:57.100 Cicero has never had

00:17:59.000 a command

00:17:59.820 he's not a military

00:18:00.780 he was never a military man

00:18:01.980 Cato can't be intimidated

00:18:03.460 you just can't

00:18:04.060 intimidate Cato

00:18:05.120 it's not going to happen

00:18:05.760 but you can intimidate

00:18:06.940 Cicero

00:18:07.620 but Pompey

00:18:08.300 Pompey won't have it

00:18:09.220 if Pompey wants to

00:18:11.260 he could just go

00:18:12.440 and get a couple of legions

00:18:13.560 and invest Rome

00:18:14.520 and wipe Claudius

00:18:15.840 and his men out

00:18:16.440 if he really wanted to do that

00:18:17.600 if he wanted to go full Sulla

00:18:18.840 never go full Sulla

00:18:19.940 but if he wanted to

00:18:20.960 he could

00:18:21.960 but he doesn't decide

00:18:23.060 to do that

00:18:23.380 instead

00:18:23.720 he decides to try

00:18:25.160 and fight fire with fire

00:18:26.540 okay we've got a troublesome

00:18:27.740 popular tribune

00:18:28.980 I'll get my own tribune

00:18:30.420 this Milo character

00:18:31.680 and I'll get him

00:18:33.000 to thwart Claudius

00:18:34.020 legally

00:18:34.620 in all sorts of ways

00:18:35.740 and if and when

00:18:36.960 that doesn't succeed

00:18:38.100 Pompey

00:18:38.720 I'll create my own gang

00:18:40.920 my counter-Claudius gang

00:18:43.040 and put Milo in charge of them

00:18:45.320 if needs be

00:18:46.160 Pompey's just not going to

00:18:47.240 put up with

00:18:48.000 any attempts

00:18:48.980 to intimidate him

00:18:50.360 on the steps of his own home

00:18:51.760 or anything like that

00:18:53.000 so finally

00:18:54.200 someone's pushing back

00:18:55.780 significantly against Clodius

00:18:57.380 and it's Pompey

00:18:58.680 now

00:18:59.260 how much Clodius

00:19:00.580 is basically acting

00:19:01.920 entirely on behalf of Caesar

00:19:04.000 most people think that

00:19:05.140 probably not

00:19:06.080 at some point he was

00:19:07.080 at some point their

00:19:07.840 goals and aims

00:19:09.680 completely aligned

00:19:10.700 but very quickly

00:19:11.580 once Caesar's gone

00:19:12.340 for a year or two

00:19:13.100 Clodius is just

00:19:13.840 acting for himself

00:19:15.240 wants to be a player

00:19:16.420 completely independently

00:19:18.060 of anyone

00:19:18.620 including Caesar

00:19:19.460 and Pompey's just not

00:19:21.260 going to have that

00:19:21.740 oh yeah

00:19:22.140 and he also

00:19:22.820 gets Milo

00:19:23.820 to recall Cicero

00:19:25.360 because Cicero

00:19:26.480 would be

00:19:27.460 or is

00:19:28.040 a very great tool

00:19:29.780 of oratory

00:19:30.800 so Pompey's decided

00:19:32.740 to pull out

00:19:33.160 all the stops

00:19:33.700 against Clodius

00:19:34.580 try and thwart him

00:19:35.860 in the war of words

00:19:38.040 in the courts

00:19:39.260 and ultimately

00:19:40.420 in the end

00:19:41.020 on the streets

00:19:41.820 so Cicero is recalled

00:19:43.620 Appian tells us

00:19:44.840 and so Cicero

00:19:46.140 who had gone into exile

00:19:47.760 because of Pompey

00:19:48.760 returned home

00:19:49.580 because of Pompey

00:19:50.420 about 16 months

00:19:51.500 after his expulsion

00:19:52.520 and his townhouse

00:19:53.760 and country residences

00:19:54.940 were rebuilt

00:19:55.960 at public expense

00:19:57.020 they say that

00:19:57.780 when he was received

00:19:58.740 at the gates

00:19:59.420 of Rome

00:20:00.040 in spectacular style

00:20:01.560 by the entire population

00:20:02.700 the whole day

00:20:03.780 was spent on greetings

00:20:04.860 as in the case

00:20:06.000 of Demosthenes

00:20:07.080 okay let's talk about

00:20:08.520 the same sort of thing

00:20:09.780 the same period

00:20:10.480 the same few events

00:20:11.560 this time from Plutarch

00:20:13.200 in his life of Pompey

00:20:15.580 and he says this

00:20:17.000 Pompey himself

00:20:17.940 soon allowed himself

00:20:19.240 to be weakly seduced

00:20:20.480 by his passion

00:20:21.520 for his young wife

00:20:22.560 again wasn't really

00:20:23.980 a done thing

00:20:24.680 for an important Roman

00:20:25.560 to love your wife

00:20:26.760 too much

00:20:27.280 he spent all his time

00:20:28.660 with her

00:20:29.040 in country houses

00:20:29.940 and pleasure gardens

00:20:30.940 and paid no attention

00:20:32.220 to what was going on

00:20:33.180 in the forum

00:20:33.760 the result

00:20:34.920 was that even Clodius

00:20:36.340 who was now

00:20:37.040 tribune of the people

00:20:38.060 began to despise him

00:20:39.540 and to venture upon

00:20:40.580 the most outrageous actions

00:20:41.900 he had driven Cicero

00:20:43.480 into exile

00:20:44.240 and had got Cato

00:20:45.540 sent to Cyprus

00:20:46.520 on the pretext

00:20:47.520 of a military commission

00:20:48.700 yeah that was an interesting

00:20:50.280 thing that Clodius did

00:20:51.820 as a tribune

00:20:52.640 he legally gets the state

00:20:54.240 to offer Cato

00:20:55.600 a governorship

00:20:56.360 on Cyprus

00:20:57.300 and Cato says to him

00:20:59.200 openly just says

00:21:00.220 look you don't need me

00:21:02.220 to be the governor

00:21:03.480 of Cyprus

00:21:04.180 I'm sort of

00:21:04.960 kind of above all that

00:21:05.820 I'm sort of

00:21:06.320 at a creator level

00:21:07.380 hoping to be console

00:21:08.240 one day

00:21:08.820 you don't

00:21:09.320 you're obviously

00:21:10.080 just trying to

00:21:10.700 get me out of the city

00:21:11.680 you're obviously

00:21:12.520 just trying to

00:21:13.260 do away with me

00:21:14.740 so that you can 0.97

00:21:15.820 do all the nasty

00:21:16.960 nefarious things

00:21:17.840 you want to do

00:21:18.580 and Clodius

00:21:19.480 and his factions

00:21:20.240 basically say

00:21:21.020 yeah well

00:21:21.700 yeah kind of

00:21:22.580 yeah what are you

00:21:23.140 going to do though

00:21:23.640 but you're Cato

00:21:24.920 you always do

00:21:26.020 everything by the

00:21:26.660 letter of the law

00:21:27.420 and the law says

00:21:29.780 that you're really

00:21:30.880 obliged to go to

00:21:32.400 Cyprus now

00:21:33.160 for a few years

00:21:33.820 for a year or two

00:21:34.480 so what are you going

00:21:35.380 to do

00:21:35.640 break your word

00:21:36.680 or do as you've

00:21:38.200 always do

00:21:38.740 which is follow

00:21:39.400 the letter of the law

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PREVIEW： Epochs #190 ｜ Pompey & Caesar： Part XV

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