The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Epochs #260 ｜ The Life of Richard III

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome back to Epochs. We're in the first studio today as you can see because the

00:00:24.820 second studio had to be used for something else but we've done a fair few in this first studio.

00:00:28.680 now we've got the bespoke video wall for epochs for just such an occasion so let's get straight

00:00:34.160 back into it if you remember last time we left off the story where edward the fourth the great

00:00:39.160 warrior king this son of york he just died out of the blue he was in sort of his 40s and he'd got

00:00:45.220 let himself get corpulent he'd uh he lived a bit of a degenerate life and as often happened in the

00:00:53.440 pre-modern age when there's not you know great doctors and no real medicines to speak of if you

00:00:59.820 get ill and your body just doesn't fight it off that's it you die so people often died younger

00:01:05.700 uh whether he had some sort of heart disease or we don't know a stroke or strokes anyway he went

00:01:13.220 from being effectively perfectly fine to a few days later dead and it's a massive problem because

00:01:19.660 the heir to the throne his eldest son his eldest legitimate son uh another edward edward the fifth

00:01:26.720 is only like 12 years old in his minority as they say a boy king not old enough to rule in his own

00:01:34.440 right sometimes there are examples of when someone not much older is able to take the reins i mean

00:01:40.280 edward the fourth himself was only 18 years old when he was thrown into the maelstrom of events

00:01:47.300 onto the stage of history and he was able to pick up the mantle and fight for himself and

00:01:53.600 lead a faction and all that sort of thing at 18 you know like alexander the great was only 18

00:01:59.940 or so 18 19 augustus was something like 17 or 18 or 19 years old william the conqueror was about 15

00:02:10.480 years old when his father died he was just about had his own mind his own will and his own mind

00:02:17.740 and the ability to bend other men to his will at the age of 15 that's remarkably young isn't it

00:02:25.020 but 12 no it's too young he's still a child at 12 fully so of course it becomes a power struggle

00:02:34.320 who's going to control that child because he is king legally he's king a coronation at

00:02:39.960 Westminster Abbey when the Archbishop puts the crown on your head and you hold a scepter and orb

00:02:43.980 that's only really a rubber stamping the moment the king dies the moment he's dead the next in

00:02:49.880 line is the king immediately so when Edward V the 12 year old Edward V when his father died he is

00:02:57.100 now the king the king of England this boy so it's immediately a power struggle who's going to control

00:03:03.600 him and therefore control policy control government be the leader be the king in all but name at least

00:03:10.960 for a few years until he grows up if he grows up which he doesn't i don't want to be too much of a

00:03:18.060 spoiler alert however this is one of the most famous bits of english history really right it's

00:03:25.700 up there with some of the most famous things the spanish armada anne berlin getting a head cut off

00:03:31.840 harold godson getting an arrow in the eye this next bit it's the bit of the princes in the tower

00:03:38.120 the two doomed princes because edward v has got a younger brother as well two boys

00:03:42.400 one's 12 one's like 10 9 or 10 they go into the tower the tower of london and one way or another

00:03:49.400 and we'll talk all about this in this episode one way or another come to a sticky end now this is a

00:03:55.040 bit of history as i say so famous it's in shakespeare and everything it's been it's been poured

00:03:58.880 over so much over the centuries it's been retold and retold and as i say one of those bits if it

00:04:07.060 was a cassette tape it would be worn out by now the amount of people have gone over it and lots

00:04:11.460 and lots of people got all different all different theories some crazy things some in my opinion some

00:04:16.060 crazy theories about what might have actually happened i've got my own thoughts and feelings

00:04:19.960 i'm going to be reading as always from professor sir charles oman a late 19th century early 20th

00:04:25.020 century professor of history at oxford university as well as sir winston churchill in his history of

00:04:31.680 the english-speaking peoples i've said a number of times i'm not a giant fan of churchill the

00:04:36.000 politician i am a big fan of churchill the writer churchill the historian it's very good so two

00:04:42.500 very very good sources here obviously both completely pre-woke we don't have to worry

00:04:46.720 about any wokest revisionism and they tell the story ever so slightly differently and i'll throw

00:04:52.140 in my thoughts and feelings and let you know what some of the other theories are as well

00:04:56.620 just to let you know there's a question of whether there was foul play here there almost certainly

00:05:03.540 was there must have been and if there was who's responsible exactly for it okay okay so let's

00:05:10.900 pick up the story with we go should we start with oman or churchill let's start with let's start

00:05:15.900 with omar all right he tells us this quote at the moment of his accession the young king was in

00:05:23.100 shropshire in charge of his uncle he was the charge of his uncle not that he was in charge

00:05:30.160 it's an old-fashioned early 20th century way of speaking his uncle was looking after him his uncle

00:05:35.920 was the earl rivers so that's his maternal uncle the brother of his mother because what plays out

00:05:43.220 I say there's a power struggle

00:05:44.480 the power struggle are between 0.92

00:05:46.620 his mother's side of the family

00:05:49.020 and his father's side of the family

00:05:50.540 so on his mother's side

00:05:52.260 remember his mother is Elizabeth Woodville

00:05:54.440 the White Queen

00:05:55.260 and all her family are the Woodvilles 1.00

00:05:58.100 and the Rivers

00:05:59.520 the Earl Rivers

00:06:00.860 they've been ennobled

00:06:02.020 so there's his mother's side of the family

00:06:04.400 all of those

00:06:05.120 the Woodvilles and the Rivers

00:06:06.520 and on his father's side

00:06:08.500 on the paternal side

00:06:09.620 he's got another uncle

00:06:11.200 he's got many uncles on his mum's side

00:06:12.720 And on his dad's side, he's got one remaining uncle.

00:06:15.760 He would have had two.

00:06:17.100 Remember, George, Duke of Clarence, had to be executed,

00:06:20.800 perhaps drowned in a vat of mumsy wine.

00:06:24.800 Nonetheless, he's got one remaining uncle on his father's side,

00:06:28.960 Edward IV's remaining younger brother, Richard.

00:06:32.020 He's called Richard, the Duke of Gloucester.

00:06:34.660 And this paternal uncle, Richard, Duke of Gloucester,

00:06:37.020 is a bit of a badass, really.

00:06:38.980 He's actually fought in battles a number of times.

00:06:41.100 he's a true warrior shakespeare and many other depictions have him as some sort of hunchback

00:06:47.300 some sort of cripple he wasn't he almost certainly wasn't but he wasn't he was he was a badass he 0.71

00:06:53.400 could lead armies he was a leader of men he had giant estates of his own a giant number of 0.99

00:06:59.220 retainers and estates and money all of his own he'd inherited basically all the estates of warwick

00:07:06.640 warwick the the kingmaker because he'd married warwick's one remaining heir a girl and um so

00:07:15.420 now richard duke of gloucester even before any of this happens is arguably almost certainly the most

00:07:21.480 powerful man in the country after the king himself and so now the king's gone basically he is in a

00:07:28.720 couple of different ways in terms of money estates just actual de facto power power that he's already

00:07:35.040 got firmly in his own hands ready to wield a moment's notice richard duke of york the young

00:07:40.520 king's paternal uncle is the most powerful man in the country basically and think of it if for

00:07:47.280 whatever reason this 12 year old brand new king edward v 12 year old edward v if for some reason

00:07:55.580 he either is shown to be illegitimate or if he's dead and his younger brother would also need to

00:08:02.860 be dead if that were to happen then Richard himself would be king he was next in line

00:08:09.420 bear that in mind that's of absolute key importance to all of this and there were some question marks

00:08:16.600 if you remember around Edward's marriage to Elizabeth Woodville it was done in secret

00:08:21.840 maybe there's something there which isn't perfectly legitimate and above board so okay

00:08:29.060 let's let Charles Oman continue the young king was in Shropshire with his maternal uncle the

00:08:35.200 Earl Rivers a fact which put the Queen's party at a great advantage because everyone knew as soon

00:08:42.160 as Edward the old Edward IV as soon as he dies everyone knows everyone knows there's going to

00:08:47.960 be a power struggle over who controls this boy and a big chunk of that is who physically controls

00:08:54.780 him who's actually physically got him in their castle or whatever in their country house who

00:09:02.320 actually physically is controlling him okay so the fact that he's in the in the charge of the

00:09:08.100 earl rivers is a great advantage to them rivers at once proceeded to bring his little nephew

00:09:14.440 towards london for his coronation guarding him with a considerable armed force on their way

00:09:21.440 edward the young edward and his cavalcade were encountered at stony stratford by richard of

00:09:28.640 gloucester who had also brought with him a considerable body of retainers from his yorkshire

00:09:35.000 estates so this is a sort of a classic moment in history at stony stratford the two uncles

00:09:42.580 the earl rivers and richard duke of gloucester meet quite literally on the road and they've both

00:09:48.700 They've both got what is effectively a very, very small army.

00:09:52.860 Well, it's much less than that. It's not an army.

00:09:54.800 They've both got a band of retainers, men at arms, soldiers, right?

00:10:00.220 And they both want control, physical control of this 12-year-old boy

00:10:04.720 because it means power.

00:10:06.760 It's the whole ballgame.

00:10:08.180 So there's a clash of will.

00:10:09.960 The power struggle sort of immediately comes to a head,

00:10:14.600 literally, physically, on the roadside at Stony Stratford.

00:10:18.700 Oman says, the two parties met with profuse protestations of mutual friendship and esteem.

00:10:24.920 You can only imagine that was all a phony, a fakery.

00:10:30.060 Everyone knows what's really going on here. 0.91

00:10:32.620 Both sides may well want to kill the other side if needs be.

00:10:36.420 It's that serious.

00:10:38.360 The Rivers and the Woodville family have been playing havoc with the York family

00:10:43.300 ever since Edward married Elizabeth Woodville.

00:10:47.080 okay they both pretended to have mutual friendship and esteem but when rivers's suspicions were lulled

00:10:53.020 to sleep gloucester suddenly seized him flung him into fetters i.e chains and sent him as a prisoner

00:11:01.900 to the north rivers's fate was shared by sir richard gray the little king's half-brother

00:11:07.960 and several more of their party so as i say richard duke of gloucester plays for keeps right

00:11:15.900 straight away a few a few smiles and almost immediately just backstabs the rivers puts

00:11:24.600 him in chains taking takes him prisoner sends him a long way away power and policy and influence are

00:11:30.860 at stake here if not the throne itself history beckons and richard is prepared to bet the

00:11:37.680 highest of stakes everything on it and again it's one of those things if he failed he could richard

00:11:43.660 could well expect that at some point down the road the nevels the woodvilles and the rivers

00:11:48.840 might well imprison him and have him killed at some point he's a thorn in their side they're

00:11:55.260 both the thorn in each other's side so richard takes the initiative here and as i say he's a

00:12:00.800 warrior he has actually fought personally in a bunch of battles led whole wings in battles

00:12:06.880 successfully he's no shrinking violet despite what some depictions might have of him

00:12:11.880 oman continues saying gloucester that is richard then took charge of his nephew's person

00:12:17.520 and brought him up to london where he summoned a parliament to meet the queen dowager that is

00:12:24.000 elizabeth woodville on hearing that her brother rivers and her son richard gray were cast into 0.88

00:12:30.520 prison knew that her chance of power was gone and hastily took sanctuary at westminster with

00:12:37.180 her youngest son the little duke of york and her five daughters end quote so to say this elizabeth

00:12:44.680 woodville if you remember when she first met edward the fourth they were both still young

00:12:49.280 she already had been married and widowed already and had two sons by that previous marriage already

00:12:55.980 right so they're now grown up that was many years ago right that was what knocking 20 years ago or

00:13:02.880 15 odd years ago something like that and so those two boys are now men grown men from her first

00:13:10.800 marriage and then on top of that she's got two more boys one is now king edward v and there's

00:13:17.720 an heir there's a spare heir he's got a younger brother the duke of york still a boy he's only

00:13:23.760 nine or ten and she's got five daughters by all by edward a fair few of them go on to be important

00:13:31.200 i mean one of them elizabeth of york who's only a little girl here um she is eventually married

00:13:38.640 to henry tudor henry the seventh and is the mother of henry the eighth grandmother of bloody

00:13:44.480 mary and elizabeth the first good queen bess so even elizabeth woodfield's daughters are very

00:13:49.820 important but of course her two sons legitimate sons by by edward the fourth are of key importance

00:13:56.360 here but just remember she's got two other sons from way back when who are now grown men and you

00:14:03.360 know they're important okay so she's had lots and lots of children elizabeth woodville and she

00:14:08.380 realizes once uh richard duke of gloucester has got edward v her son physically he physically

00:14:16.540 controls him um you know maybe already the power struggle is sort of over already the earl rivers

00:14:23.880 has been chained up and sent away she realizes she can't physically stand up to richard there's

00:14:30.600 no way she's going to lead men at arms against him or anything like that so she decides to as

00:14:39.960 it says there take sanctuary in westminster be westminster abbey and fall back on the hope

00:14:46.600 that she just won't be imprisoned or killed there's this thing from the 15th century and

00:14:52.740 before and a little bit afterwards but in the 15th century the idea that if particularly as well

00:14:57.800 women and children particularly women and children if you go into a holy place a church an abbey a

00:15:03.360 cathedral anything like that that it's not only against the law but sort of deeply deeply

00:15:10.420 dishonorable to storm in there as a soldier with drawn sword and do any sort of act of violence in

00:15:20.540 any possible way now that's only a convention really you can't rely on that people did try to

00:15:28.420 i mean that's it's like a last ditch hope a last ditch attempt if you've got someone who's

00:15:33.900 inscrutable someone who's shameless they won't pay attention to that they'll just send soldiers

00:15:39.060 in there and come and drag you out if they've got any sort of sense of propriety and honor

00:15:44.320 they wouldn't okay so she's just hoping that richard duke of york uh will sort of respect

00:15:50.980 that convention that you don't just go into uh an abbey and arrest women and children and drag

00:15:58.260 them out against their will but hopefully she'll be safe again just by convention so that's what

00:16:03.880 she does it is a bit of a last ditch hope against hope she's got her five daughters and the and the

00:16:10.200 king king edward v younger brother with her and an entourage for a few other people okay okay omar

00:16:16.740 goes on saying this the nation was not displeased to learn that the regency would fall into the

00:16:22.380 hands of duke richard who was known as a good soldier and had served his brother very faithfully

00:16:28.380 it the country much preferred him to the queen and her relatives who had a bad reputation for

00:16:35.180 greed and arrogance but it soon became evident that there was something more in the air than a

00:16:40.960 mere transference of the regency i.e was richard duke of york the paternal uncle was he merely

00:16:48.920 looking to act as regent on behalf of the child king edward v or was there something more more

00:16:56.560 to that does he not want the crown for himself as i say if those two boys are somehow shown to

00:17:02.740 be illegitimate or they're dead then he's the king it's just a couple of heartbeats between him and

00:17:08.480 the throne so okay quite quickly it becomes clear that perhaps that's his design oman continues

00:17:16.620 saying gloucester richard duke of gloucester not only filled all the places about the king with his

00:17:22.560 own friends but commenced to pack london with great bodies of armed men raised on his own estates

00:17:29.360 a precaution quite unnecessary when all his enemies were crushed he also made the council

00:17:35.420 of regency confer gifts of money land and offices on a most unprecedented scale upon his two chief

00:17:42.740 confidants henry duke of buckingham and john lord howard become important in this story they were

00:17:49.240 evidently being brought for some secret purpose gloucester and his nephew the king had been in

00:17:55.140 London more than a month and the day of the young king's coronation was at hand when suddenly Duke

00:18:02.620 Richard showed his real intentions by a sharp and bloody stroke. On the 13th of June the Privy

00:18:09.600 Council was meeting in the Tower of London on business of no great importance and the Duke

00:18:15.080 showed himself smooth and affable as was his want. After a space he withdrew but ere long returned

00:18:22.520 with a change of countenance and an aspect of gloom and anger what shall be done he suddenly

00:18:28.820 asked to them that compass the destruction of me being so near of blood to the king and protector

00:18:35.560 of his realm those are supposed to have been richard's actual words omar continues saying

00:18:41.020 he was answered by lord hastings the late king's best friend edward the fourth best friend a man

00:18:48.360 of great courage and experience who had shared in the victories of Barnet and Tewkesbury and had

00:18:54.300 held the highest offices ever since and this is what Lord Hastings is supposed to have said

00:18:59.960 they are worthy of death whoever they may be then Gloucester burst out saying it is my brother's

00:19:07.260 wife and bearing his left arm which all men knew to be somewhat deformed since his earliest years 0.98

00:19:14.000 he cried look what yonder sorceress and shore's wife that was her original husband she had those 0.75

00:19:20.480 two children with he's calling her a sorcerer and reminding everyone that she was married before

00:19:27.240 edward look what yonder sorceress and shore's wife and those who are of their council have done

00:19:32.680 unto me with their witchcrafts everyone goes on hastings started at the mention of shore's wife

00:19:39.060 for Jane Shaw was his own mistress and an accusation of witchcraft against her touched him

00:19:45.540 nearly if they have so done my lord he faltered they are worthy of heinous punishment thou me

00:19:52.680 with ifs replied Duke Richard I tell thee they have done it and that I will prove upon thy body

00:20:00.100 thou traitor Oman again then he smote upon the table and armed men whom he had posted without

00:20:07.040 rushed into the council chamber. Richard bade them seize Hastings, Lord Stanley, the Archbishop of

00:20:13.520 York and the Bishop of Ely, all firm and loyal friends of Edward IV. Hastings was borne out to

00:20:20.420 the court of the tower and beheaded there and there. The others were placed in bonds. This

00:20:26.060 sudden blow at the young king's most faithful adherents dismayed the whole city, but Gloucester

00:20:31.920 hastened to give out that he had detected Hastings and his friends in a plot against his life and as

00:20:38.760 he had hitherto been always esteemed a loyal and upright prince his words were half believed

00:20:44.760 okay so let's just take account of what happened there even though Richard Duke of York is the

00:20:51.380 closest kin in blood to the young 12 year old Edward V there is also another a whole group of

00:20:58.980 adherents a party around the young king mostly edward the fourth his father's closest friends

00:21:05.860 who all would have just de facto just immediately without question transferred their allegiance over

00:21:11.260 to the boy king and hope they would all be powerful in any new sort of regency wait for

00:21:16.980 him to grow up bring him up they would all protect him with their life etc etc well richard now

00:21:25.240 nominally all in the same party richards now denounced them anyone that would have protected

00:21:31.080 little edward v he's attacked them and removed them from the heart of government and power

00:21:37.080 and told the world told london that they were plotting against him were they really i mean

00:21:42.600 did he did richard just make all this all of this up because it's all part of his power grab

00:21:47.240 or were they really we don't know i suspect not i suspect richard sort of fabricated it all

00:21:55.800 so that he can have a reason to grab power lots of people disagree everywhere every possible

00:22:01.880 theory every possible shade of gray in this has been espoused along the way i've got quite a dim

00:22:07.640 view of richard myself i think he was just a cynical man a soldier a rich and powerful man

00:22:15.000 that wanted more riches and more power i've always sort of seen it that way somehow some

00:22:20.060 paint richard as having done nothing wrong many many do many revisionists suggest richard is the

00:22:27.100 victim in all of this one way or another things like that incident there genuinely was a plot

00:22:32.920 against his life he was only just trying to protect his own life he didn't do anything wrong

00:22:36.920 many other histories most other histories it's the one i go with is that no he knew that it was

00:22:43.220 only a small number of steps he would have to take albeit terrible ones and then he can be king

00:22:50.240 that's the thing i think that's the thing i have always believed it's the thing that i think most

00:22:55.820 serious historians it's the most likely thing isn't it isn't it i mean you make your own mind

00:23:02.300 up that it's the way of history certainly in the pre-modern era that um rich and powerful and

00:23:08.500 violent men often when they get very very close to power and reach out for it and you might have

00:23:14.960 to kill murder a small number of people murder even someone in your own family murder your own 0.89

00:23:20.560 father murder your own brother yeah murder loads of your own brothers perhaps right yeah murder 0.93

00:23:27.260 your nephew yeah yeah totally possible not beyond the realms of possibility for a man like

00:23:34.340 richard that's what i believe but there's loads of other ways of looking at i mean for example

00:23:39.980 there's the there's the novels and tv adaptation the white queen by philippa gregory philippa

00:23:44.980 gregory's written lots and lots of historical fiction she has it she's got a bit of a revisionist

00:23:51.280 view or a different view that richard didn't really there's some sort of comedy of errors

00:23:56.520 there's some sort of mistaken communication which leads to these princes being in the tower

00:24:02.340 and then being dead that richard never meant to do it it was sort of an accident and he was really

00:24:07.700 cut up about it and it was uh i'll say some sort of comedy of errors i just i i don't believe that

00:24:13.880 again the sources for the 15th century are quite scant you might think oh we know loads about this

00:24:19.220 it's documented with lots and lots of different chroniclers and we've got lots and lots of people

00:24:23.340 that wrote letters from the time and no no the evidence is quite scant we don't know exactly

00:24:30.520 day to day hour to hour who was where and who said what to whom and on and on no loads of it is

00:24:37.780 shrouded in in darkness and so you know that sort of thing does lead to dozens hundreds of different

00:24:44.700 theories about how it all really played out how it all really went down you know we've got a few

00:24:50.180 data points that seem to be firm history or are firm history you know that he met the earl rivers

00:24:57.000 at stony stratford took control of the king took him to london put him in the tower of london for

00:25:04.140 his own safekeeping not in a cell not in not just like a straw covered floor cell with bars on the

00:25:11.140 windows put him up in nice surroundings basically under house arrest in a in a in a nice castle

00:25:17.260 effectively but he's under arrest he's not allowed to leave the castle if without richard say so so

00:25:25.040 he's his prisoner all these things are historical fact right but as i say the exact nature who said

00:25:32.280 what to whom if there was a conspiracy with between richard and buckingham and lord howard

00:25:38.060 how exactly what exactly that was we don't know if hastings and others the bishop of ely and the

00:25:46.180 arch archer archbishop of york lord stanley whether they all the details exactly what they

00:25:52.780 may or may not have done exactly for real firm history undisputed we don't know we don't know

00:25:59.300 so if you want to you can infer suggest all sorts of things okay i'll let omar continue he says this

00:26:06.420 richard's real object was to free himself from men whom he knew to be faithful to the young king

00:26:13.020 and unlikely to join in the dark plot which he was hatching he next went with a great armed

00:26:19.920 following to westminster where lay the queen dowager the young king's mother elizabeth woodville

00:26:26.660 the white queen and her children surrounding the sanctuary with guards and then threatening to

00:26:32.820 break in if he was resisted he sent archbishop birch here the aged archbishop of canterbury

00:26:40.260 to persuade elizabeth to give up her young son richard of york the the two boys because if

00:26:47.340 Richard is Richard, Duke of Gloucester, is to become king.

00:26:50.880 Not only does Edward V, the 12-year-old, need to die, but also his younger brother, the two princes in the tower.

00:27:01.000 Half in terror, half persuaded by the smooth prelate who pledged his word that no harm should befall the boy,

00:27:08.040 the Queen placed him in Bouchier's hands.

00:27:11.260 Richard at once sent him to join his brother in the tower, and that was on the 16th of June.

00:27:16.320 1483 by the way we're in the year 1483 here so richard argues that it's for the best uh you know

00:27:24.600 other people other factions if they got their hands on that young duke of york king edward

00:27:31.280 v's younger brother he would be in danger the the safest place for him to be is in uncle richard's

00:27:38.980 charge the safest place for him could possibly be is in the tower of london with his older brother

00:27:44.680 so it's in his best interests

00:27:47.140 if you hand him over to me

00:27:48.340 that's his argument

00:27:49.640 Oman continues saying

00:27:51.180 having both his brother's sons in his power

00:27:53.600 and having crushed his brother's faithful friends

00:27:56.660 Richard now proceeded

00:27:58.320 to show his real intent

00:28:00.160 he was aiming at the crown

00:28:02.240 and had been preparing to seize it

00:28:04.540 from the moment that his brother died

00:28:06.740 as I say just to remind you

00:28:08.400 some historians many people say

00:28:10.180 that's just wrong Charles Oman

00:28:11.780 has got the wrong end of the stick here

00:28:13.540 I don't think so

00:28:14.660 This was the meaning of the gifts that he had been showering around and of the masses of armed men that he had gathered.

00:28:22.940 On the 22nd of June, he laid his purpose open.

00:28:26.560 His chaplain doctor, Shaw, was sent up to preach to the people at St Paul's Cross,

00:28:32.360 a marvellous sermon in which he argued that Richard was the rightful king,

00:28:37.200 though both Edward IV and Clarence, his two elder brothers, had left sons behind them.

00:28:42.380 the londoners were told to their great surprise that the late king's marriage with elizabeth

00:28:47.940 woodville had been invalid not only had they been secretly and unlawfully married in an

00:28:54.180 unconsecrated place not in a church the marriage didn't count therefore the boys are illegitimate

00:28:59.740 but edward had been betrothed long before to lady eleanor talbot the daughter of the earl of

00:29:05.560 shrewsbury he had never been given any clerical dispensation from this bond and therefore he 0.84

00:29:11.100 was not free to wed and his sons were bastards as to clarence he had been attainted and the blood 0.60

00:29:18.580 of his heir was corrupted by his father's attainder therefore richard is the legit king

00:29:24.320 oman says the londoners were astonished at this strange argument and kept silence and so

00:29:30.860 disappointed gloucester who had come to the sermon in hopes to meet an enthusiastic reception

00:29:36.460 yeah that's a classic thing Richard had hoped the crowds would cheer and whoop when they heard the

00:29:43.340 news that in fact he Richard was king now he'd hoped he'd hoped it would go down well it didn't

00:29:49.440 people were sort of aghast you know they've been living with Edward IV and his wife Elizabeth

00:29:55.540 Woodfield for many many many years now and everyone had accepted that Edward IV and his

00:30:01.660 marriage were legitimate and his children by Elizabeth Woodfield the White Queen were legitimate

00:30:06.260 until this moment until that moment everyone including richard had been like yeah the 12

00:30:12.480 year old edward v is king and but now suddenly just one day in london no no that's not the case

00:30:18.840 no and so yeah the normal people of london are just like wait what wait what just happened

00:30:24.520 you're saying the king isn't the king but you are wait you've just completely deposed your own

00:30:30.780 nephew and wait he's you've got him in the tower of london sorry wait what's going on here where

00:30:35.920 it now right yeah it didn't go down well it did not go down well so the common folk the londoners

00:30:41.600 don't like it oman continues saying but two days later a stranger scene was enacted at the guild

00:30:47.820 hall the duke of buckingham costa's chief confidant summoned together the mayor and council of london

00:30:54.420 and repeating all the arguments that dr shore had argued bade them salute richard as king a few

00:31:00.640 Very timid voices shouted approval and then Buckingham declared that he recognised the

00:31:05.460 assent and goodwill of the people.

00:31:08.180 Shaky, really weak source.

00:31:11.040 Next day they met the Parliament which should have witnessed the coronation of Edward V.

00:31:17.020 Should have.

00:31:18.080 They were summoned to St Paul's where Buckingham presented to them a long document setting 0.96

00:31:22.860 forth the evil government of Edward IV, denouncing his sons as bastards and ending with a petition 0.79

00:31:29.500 to richard duke of gloucester to take upon him as his right the title and estate of king 0.54

00:31:36.240 it's a coup d'etat it basically is i mean that's what i think that's what most historians think

00:31:40.840 you know some people will argue no that's perfectly right the arguments richard put

00:31:44.600 forward are just true edward the fourth's marriage to elizabeth woodville was illegitimate

00:31:49.620 therefore those boys are illegitimate and clarence's sons because of the attainder so

00:31:54.820 richard's just genuinely claiming his right there's nothing more to it than that most people

00:32:00.800 see this as a usurpation and a coup d'etat a seizure of power among the lords and commons

00:32:07.240 yielded their silent assent apparently without a word of discussion or argument and buckingham

00:32:13.920 then led a deputation to duke richard who with much feigned reluctance assented to the petition

00:32:21.600 and declared himself king remember you might ask why did the lords and the parliament just

00:32:27.200 not say anything just all keep completely silent well richard is the most powerful man in the

00:32:33.140 country we're still just just out of the wars of the roses really still the 15th century it's

00:32:40.060 richard who controls the army controls men at arms he wants to lock you up and i'll just have

00:32:45.460 you killed he can do that and you can't so it's a little bit of might is right isn't it's a little 0.95

00:32:51.160 bit of what you're going to do about it i'm i'm stealing power here and you can't stop me so you 0.78

00:32:58.220 really physically can't so you may as well just keep your head down you may as well keep quiet

00:33:02.840 you might not like it don't even pretend to like it but it's happening and uh yeah richard feigns

00:33:10.620 reluctance that's interesting classic thing that's an ancient thing even going back to sort of well

00:33:15.880 the classic example is augustus octavian very very very often over many many years over 40 odd years

00:33:22.400 he would be offered more and more grand titles and offices and you you always refuse them a few

00:33:31.120 times no i'm not worthy of that no no no please come on you do me too much justice uh i'm not

00:33:37.300 worthy uh surely you don't mean me but then quite quickly actually say uh okay i'll take it all right

00:33:44.080 That'll do it, Omar says.

00:33:46.200 He declared himself king.

00:33:47.640 The only excuse for this lamentable weakness shown by the houses,

00:33:52.580 the House of Lords and the House of Commons,

00:33:54.420 is that they were quite unprepared for the coup d'etat

00:33:56.860 and were overawed by the thousands of men at arms

00:34:00.300 in the livery of Gloucester and Buckingham who packed every street.

00:34:04.920 Yeah, you know, what are you going to do?

00:34:07.240 You know, they couldn't do anything.

00:34:08.840 It's a fait accompli.

00:34:09.800 It's like, what, you're going to make them kill you for what purpose?

00:34:13.280 it's still going to happen anyway in fact it's already happened really you haven't really got

00:34:17.560 any choice but to just accept it keep quiet so richard was crowned with great pomp if with little

00:34:24.780 rejoicing and thought that he had attained the summit of his desires but his position was from

00:34:32.120 the first radically unsound that's a great antiquated way of saying it his position was

00:34:38.820 radically unsound. He had seized the throne so easily because his antecedents had not prepared

00:34:45.520 men for such sudden and unscrupulous action, so that there had been no time to organise any

00:34:52.080 opposition to him. But the pious and modest duke had suddenly blossomed forth into a bloodthirsty

00:34:58.380 tyrant. On the very day of his accession, he had the unfortunate rivers and grey beheaded at

00:35:05.140 pontefract and six weeks later he wrote a much darker deed remember these are the the family

00:35:11.980 the maternal family of king edward the 12 year old and the closest people to elizabeth woodville

00:35:18.560 and what is that much darker deed that omar's talking about well he says quote after starting

00:35:25.140 on a festal progress through the midlands he sent back a secret mandate to london authorizing the

00:35:31.800 murder of his little nephews, Edward and Richard. They were smothered at dead of night in their

00:35:38.180 prison in the tower, and secretly buried by their assassins. Their graves were never discovered

00:35:44.440 until 1674, when masons repairing the building came upon the bones of two young boys thrust

00:35:51.700 away under a staircase. The murder took place between the 7th and 14th of August, 1483.

00:35:58.920 but its manner and details were never certainly known end quote so again to mention all different

00:36:07.500 people all through the centuries have had all different ideas of exactly what happened

00:36:11.160 so let's dwell on this for a moment what we can say for sure what's definite definite the small

00:36:18.060 amount of definite history we've got here okay what that definite history is very little of it

00:36:24.960 we've got is that they seem these two boys were seen in the tower of london again they're sort of

00:36:31.440 treated as uh you know guests they're not imprisoned in a cell they're allowed to sort

00:36:35.560 of walk around and run around and play around in the courtyard and things at some point before the

00:36:41.800 7th of august 1483 they were seen by people alive some point after that perhaps as late as the 14th

00:36:49.320 august they were never seen again at all dead or alive they disappeared right that's kind of it

00:36:56.800 that's kind of all we've got as firm 100 fact they were never seen again okay so some say

00:37:07.280 they escaped some say they were broken out of prison they were rescued and they went on to

00:37:13.520 grow up like years later you've got people saying uh i'm actually edward v or i'm actually the duke

00:37:20.260 of york the younger duke of york not believed no one really believes that was true in any way but

00:37:24.960 maybe they escaped and went on to live or they were killed okay it's almost certainly almost

00:37:32.820 certain you know in my mind it's 100 but i think in most serious people's minds it's 99 to 100

00:37:40.400 they were killed so okay let's assume that is the case i mean come on it is the case who killed them

00:37:47.520 okay some people say it wasn't richard there's a whole number of people that may have wanted to

00:37:52.680 please richard that's how that's sort of how philippa gregory paints the story that there

00:37:57.720 were other people that knew that it was in richard's interest to have them dead now so they

00:38:02.400 just did it hoping to be praised you know like for example the way the egyptians killed pompey

00:38:09.480 pompey magnus pompey the great thinking that it's what caesar would want they would be greatly

00:38:14.440 rewarded if they did that so they just did it some have argued that perhaps they were uh died

00:38:21.000 of natural causes yeah come on almost certainly not okay so they disappeared the person that

00:38:27.560 benefited most from it obviously is their uncle richard because now there's no way that his

00:38:36.680 usurpation his coup d'etat uh won't be successful there's no one for a an enemy faction to

00:38:44.120 galvanize around you know he might have feared that other people would at some point in the future

00:38:50.840 disavow him richard and say no come on look the legit king is is the boy edward v will end up

00:38:56.680 having battles with you over it if needs be but if he's dead the story's over right so to me

00:39:03.000 and to most histories other than sort of later 20th century revisionist histories

00:39:09.060 say richard had them killed well but possibly not who knows all we know is that at some point in

00:39:17.480 august 1483 they disappeared from sight never to be seen again okay and as omar says there

00:39:26.680 a couple of little bodies were found nearly two centuries later which were their bodies so they

00:39:32.500 were killed they were murdered right um the only other thing is to argue about exactly how they

00:39:38.060 were killed whether they were smothered we've got no idea whether their throats were cut no idea

00:39:42.500 we really don't know that anyone that says they know that is uh stretching it we really don't

00:39:49.060 know we hope you enjoyed that video and if you did please head over to lotusseaters.com

00:39:54.100 for the full unabridged video

00:40:02.500 Thank you.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - April 26, 2026

PREVIEW： Epochs #260 ｜ The Life of Richard III

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