The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - May 24, 2026


PREVIEW： Epochs #264 ｜ The Life of Henry VIII - Part 2


Episode Stats


Length

20 minutes

Words per minute

165.8

Word count

3,397

Sentence count

50

Harmful content

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

20

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Cardinal Wolsey was one of the most powerful men in England at the turn of the 16th century, but was he also the most tyrannical? And was he responsible for the break with the Church of Rome and Martin Luther?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome back to Epochs, where I shall be continuing my story all about the monarchy,
00:00:26.320 the english monarchy we're up to henry the eighth now aren't we last time you remember uh we did
00:00:31.760 this early reign because he became king quite young didn't he was only like 17 or 18 uh we got
00:00:37.320 through some of the early details we did the battle of flodden flodden field where the english beat
00:00:42.580 the scots even killed the king of scotland on the battlefield and so that sort of makes it a bit
00:00:48.960 quieter well a lot more quiet on the scottish border for most of henry the eighth's reign we
00:00:53.460 talked about the Battle of the Spurs, where England won a victory in France. It wasn't
00:00:58.040 sort of any sort of crushing, decisive victory, was it? Like Cressy or Agincourt, a victory.
00:01:03.060 And we started talking about Wolsey, the Bishop, the Dean Wolsey, goes on to be famously Cardinal
00:01:08.760 Wolsey. So we started on that, didn't we? So this time I shall continue telling the story.
00:01:14.840 And we'll talk all about Wolsey and really the break with the Church of Rome, the Catholic
00:01:19.460 church in Rome and all that sort of thing, the age of Martin Luther we're in. As always I shall be 0.96
00:01:24.080 reading from Professor Sir Charles Oman, a late 19th century, early 20th century Oxford professor
00:01:30.420 of history, one of the best to ever do it, as well as Sir Winston Churchill and his history of the
00:01:34.980 English-speaking peoples, which if you haven't noticed borrows heavily from Oman, but you do get
00:01:42.220 all sorts of different details and slightly different takes. So okay let's jump straight
00:01:45.860 into it let me start reading to you then from omar who tells us following on from the the field of
00:01:53.280 the cloth of gold if you remember where the king of france and the king of england our henry met
00:01:59.380 and made out that they were best friends but in fact soon after both sort of betrayed that
00:02:05.180 friendship and there's that three-way power struggle remember between france spain and england
00:02:09.700 France and Spain are much more powerful militarily
00:02:12.600 But actually England is richer, incredibly
00:02:16.180 At this moment in time
00:02:17.880 Mainly because of the prudence of Henry VII
00:02:20.420 Henry Tudor, Henry VIII's dad
00:02:23.280 But that power struggle is
00:02:25.820 That balance of power is constantly shifting and changing
00:02:28.720 Okay, Oman says this
00:02:30.320 Quote
00:02:30.620 From all the negotiations and fighting
00:02:33.300 Which accompanied the changes of English policy
00:02:35.760 I keep switching sides between France and Spain
00:02:38.020 And they keep doing the same 0.99
00:02:38.940 One definite result was reached
00:02:41.680 England was beginning to grow poorer and more discontented
00:02:45.440 The hoarded treasure of Henry VII had long been exhausted
00:02:49.160 And the taxation which his son was compelled to levy was growing more and more heavy
00:02:54.900 Henry had fallen into the evil habit of dispensing with parliamentary grants
00:02:59.980 You know, a parliament giving the king money
00:03:03.480 from 1515 to 1523 and again in 1527 and 1528 he never summoned the two houses to assemble
00:03:12.360 the money which he ought to have asked for from them he raised by the illegal devices of
00:03:18.340 quote benevolences quote and forced loans that's a nice way of saying theft stealing it from rich
00:03:26.400 people saying don't you think it's in your best interest to just give me loads of money or a big
00:03:32.580 chunk of your money perhaps all your money do you want to still be alive perhaps you should give me
00:03:39.700 loads of your money right okay we've known we've seen how kings in the past have done that
00:03:44.940 and how that works out for them often Henry VIII happens to be living in a period of
00:03:51.100 very very strong monarchy where there aren't you know we've had the wars of the roses and there
00:03:57.880 isn't a really really strong nobility at this point in history it can rise up and sort of
00:04:04.800 overthrow him throw him in a castle and starve him to death or anything like that
00:04:08.700 most of the great lions of the age died in the walls of the roses the country doesn't want a
00:04:14.980 return to civil war like that so okay henry can basically sort of get away with it he's lucky in
00:04:21.240 his time and place. Wolsey got the credit of advising this tyrannous extortion and gained no
00:04:28.240 small hatred thereby but his master was in truth far more responsible for it than he. The cardinal
00:04:34.340 however bore the blame and it was said that all the chaotic changes in England's policy were
00:04:40.480 inspired by Wolsey's desire to attain the position of Pope. There's only ever been one English Pope
00:04:46.400 and that was centuries before this he desired the position of pope by the aid of whichever of the
00:04:51.840 two powers of france and austria had the advantage for the moment again the house the house of austria
00:04:58.100 and and sort of the spanish kingdoms and even the holy roman empire all rests in one person
00:05:05.400 the spanish king the spanish emperor habsburg emperor there is no doubt that there was some
00:05:11.340 truth in the charge the cardinal's ambition was overweening and he would gladly have become pope
00:05:16.840 because he had conceived great schemes of church reform which the possession of the papacy alone
00:05:22.940 would have enabled him to carry out it is certain that charles v the habsburg holy roman emperor
00:05:28.980 and king of spain twice deluded wolsey into aiding him by the tempting bait of the papal tiara
00:05:36.300 the tiara crown being pope but on each occasion the emperor used his influence at rome to get
00:05:43.720 some surer partisan elected wolsey's scheme of reforming the church was no doubt suggested to
00:05:49.560 him by the discontent against the clergy which was at this moment beginning to break out all over
00:05:55.080 europe again right we're in the age of martin luther and the reformation since the days of
00:06:00.700 Wycliffe, hundreds of years before, John Wycliffe, religious matters had not been taking any very
00:06:06.360 prominent place in English politics, but a storm was now at hand far more terrible than that which
00:06:11.800 had swept over the land in the days of the Lollards. The Lollards were the followers of Wycliffe.
00:06:17.300 I've talked about him before, but just to remind you, was a proto-Protestant, a Protestant hundreds
00:06:21.960 of years before actual Protestantism, saying there's all sorts of things wrong with the Catholic
00:06:26.660 church. We need to reform all sorts of things. The popes in Rome are doing Christianity wrong.
00:06:33.520 They're conducting themselves in an evil way, in a non-Christian way. So he was saying that
00:06:39.880 centuries before this. Martin Luther wasn't the first person to notice, let's put it that way.
00:06:45.280 The condition of the church of Western Christendom had become more and more deplorable of late.
00:06:50.400 The worst example was set at headquarters. Bad as the popes of the 14th century had been,
00:06:55.520 those who were contemporary with the Tudors were far worse. Rome had seen almost in succession
00:07:01.760 three scandalous popes, the first of whom, Alexander VI, the celebrated Rodrigo Borgia,
00:07:07.980 was a monster of depravity, a murderer giving up to the practice of the foulest vices.
00:07:13.700 The second, Julius II, was a mere secular statesman with no piety, but a decided talent 0.54
00:07:20.920 Both for intrigue and for hard fighting
00:07:23.680 The third, Leo X
00:07:25.140 Was a lover of art
00:07:27.200 And more than half a pagan
00:07:28.820 Who was reported to have said that
00:07:31.080 Christianity was a profitable superstition
00:07:33.800 For popes 1.00
00:07:34.440 So perhaps you can see why people like
00:07:37.160 Martin Luther or Calvin
00:07:38.680 Or any of these 1.00
00:07:40.600 Catholic heretics, Protestants 1.00
00:07:43.460 Why their message
00:07:45.320 What they were saying might have
00:07:47.100 Landed now in the
00:07:49.260 Early 16th century
00:07:50.920 there might be more people in fact millions of people that are genuinely prepared to hear that
00:07:56.620 message at this point under such pontiffs all the abuses of the medieval church came to a head
00:08:02.640 ill living corruption open impiety reckless interference in secular politics non-resistance
00:08:09.040 neglect of all spiritual duties greed for money were more openly practiced by the clergy than in
00:08:15.260 any previous age. Even the better sort of ecclesiastics could see no harm in obvious
00:08:20.780 abuses. Fox, Bishop of Winchester, a man of great virtue, absented himself for 20 years from his C.
00:08:28.440 He should have been in Winchester doing the business of being a Bishop of Winchester,
00:08:31.920 but just didn't go there. He was more interested in playing power politics and making money.
00:08:37.840 Wolsey held three C's at once and never went near any of them. The lamentable state of the church
00:08:44.200 would have provoked murmuring in any age but in the 16th century it led to open rebellion in all
00:08:49.900 those countries of Europe which still retained some regard for religion and morals. The revival
00:08:55.720 of arts and letters which men called the Renaissance was now at its height and Europe was for the first
00:09:01.500 time full of educated laymen who could criticize the church from outside and compare its teachings
00:09:07.160 with its practice. The multiplication of books owing to the discovery of printing, the Gutenberg
00:09:13.420 printing press had placed the means of knowledge in every man's hands and the revived study of
00:09:19.600 Hebrew and Greek, ancient Greek, was setting the learned to read the scriptures in their original
00:09:24.800 tongues. All the elements of a violent outbreak against the papacy, its superstitions and its
00:09:30.700 enormities were ready to combine. That's an absolute key thing that people like Martin Luther 1.00
00:09:36.060 Or Calvin or whoever would say
00:09:38.280 Is that the Latin mass 0.72
00:09:40.120 Well it is that
00:09:41.640 It's in Latin
00:09:42.600 And most normal people 1.00
00:09:44.720 Or nearly all normal people 1.00
00:09:46.080 Wouldn't know Latin 0.99
00:09:47.960 Wouldn't be able to read Latin for themselves 0.99
00:09:49.600 So they just have to rely on what their priest
00:09:52.340 Or bishop says it says
00:09:54.160 In the Bible
00:09:54.780 Well if you were unscrupulous
00:09:57.640 You could make up all sorts of things couldn't you
00:09:59.960 You could just tell the average
00:10:02.160 Unlettered person
00:10:04.420 Who can't read Latin
00:10:05.240 You can say, it says in the Bible, X, Y, Z
00:10:07.580 It doesn't necessarily say that
00:10:09.560 It's in your interest to tell them
00:10:11.120 And it doesn't
00:10:11.860 Well, now they can read it
00:10:13.100 Someone else can translate it for them into their native tongue
00:10:17.040 Whether it's German or French or Spanish or Italian or English
00:10:20.480 And now you can read it for yourself
00:10:22.380 And you realise, oh, the clergy have been lying to me and us for centuries
00:10:28.640 In fact, Jesus doesn't talk about tithes
00:10:32.100 And how we have to give loads of money to the church all the time
00:10:34.540 In fact, Jesus doesn't talk about the church at all
00:10:36.600 In fact, the Gospels don't say anything about popes
00:10:39.700 That sort of thing
00:10:41.000 And one goes on
00:10:42.180 In 1517, a German friar, Martin Luther
00:10:45.060 Had first given voice to the universal discontent
00:10:48.120 By opposing the immoral practice of selling
00:10:51.080 Quote, indulgences, quote
00:10:52.700 Of papal letters remitting penances for sins
00:10:56.100 In return for money
00:10:57.360 He had followed this up by preaching against any other papal abuses
00:11:01.500 And when Leo X replied by excommunicating him, Martin Luther
00:11:06.300 He began to attack the whole system of the medieval church
00:11:09.600 In vying against the Pope's spiritual supremacy
00:11:12.640 The invocation of saints, the celibacy of the clergy
00:11:16.480 The adoption of the monastic life and many other matters
00:11:20.260 Yeah, so, you know, a number of things
00:11:22.540 Again, Martin Luther and people like him are asking
00:11:25.520 Sorry, where does it say in the Bible
00:11:27.920 that that we're supposed to revere saints that we're supposed to give our money so that some
00:11:34.520 sort of big golden icon of a saint can be made where does it say that again aren't the clergy
00:11:40.400 supposed to be married to the church and be celibate how is it then that my my local bishop 0.97
00:11:45.960 has got many many lovers and wives and mistresses and is in fact some sort of sex pest show me the 0.75
00:11:52.240 lines where jesus says that there should be monasteries and that the monastery should own 0.56
00:11:57.240 Loads and loads of land
00:11:58.280 And be really really rich
00:11:59.580 And ring normal people for money
00:12:01.720 Where's the lines in the gospel
00:12:03.340 That say that?
00:12:05.020 Oh there aren't any
00:12:06.100 Okay
00:12:06.480 He was supported by his prince
00:12:08.640 Martin Luther
00:12:09.200 Was supported by his prince
00:12:10.580 Frederick
00:12:11.340 Elector of Saxony
00:12:12.500 And a great part of Germany
00:12:13.960 At once declared in his favour
00:12:15.720 And that was between
00:12:17.060 1517 and 1521
00:12:19.080 So usually
00:12:20.440 In centuries past
00:12:21.900 Somebody like Martin Luther
00:12:23.220 The church in Rome
00:12:24.500 Would hear of such a man
00:12:26.780 Spreading heresy
00:12:28.280 And demand that he's turned over
00:12:30.720 Or go and get him themselves
00:12:32.320 And well ultimately 1.00
00:12:34.660 Almost certainly burn him alive 1.00
00:12:36.620 For that 0.99
00:12:37.300 But Martin Luther
00:12:39.740 His prince Frederick of Saxony
00:12:42.340 Says to the Pope and to the Catholic Church
00:12:44.700 When they ask for Martin Luther
00:12:46.780 To be turned over to them
00:12:47.760 Says no actually no
00:12:49.660 I don't think so
00:12:51.020 Well that's a game changer
00:12:53.340 Real big game changer 0.99
00:12:54.920 Well, it sparks the Reformation
00:12:57.100 It says, England was not at first very much affected by the revolt of Germany against the papacy
00:13:03.800 The English church was far less corrupt than those of France or Italy
00:13:07.600 And though full of abuses, was not really unpopular with the nation
00:13:11.260 It still retained much of the old national spirit and was not the mere slave of the pope
00:13:15.940 Neither king nor people showed any signs of following the lead of the Germans
00:13:20.060 Henry wrote a book to prove Luther's views heretical
00:13:23.500 And received in return from Pope Leo X
00:13:26.640 The title of Defender of the Faith
00:13:28.840 So at 1st, Henry VIII is a good, loyal, good boy
00:13:31.740 Loyal to Rome and the Pope
00:13:33.040 We're told that the title of Defender of the Faith
00:13:35.460 Is an English sovereign still display on their coinage
00:13:38.780 In fact, King Charles III, our current king
00:13:41.700 Decided to change that to Defender of Faiths
00:13:45.240 In our own age
00:13:46.280 Bit of overreach 0.99
00:13:47.760 From Charles Saxe-Cobo-Gotha, Sausage Fingers, if you ask me
00:13:51.180 Suddenly he's a defender of all faiths
00:13:53.740 Really? A bit presumptuous
00:13:55.460 Okay, Oman goes on saying
00:13:57.400 Wolsey devoted himself
00:13:59.580 To practical reforms
00:14:01.020 Leaving doctrine alone
00:14:02.700 Because Wolsey is a cardinal
00:14:04.440 So he's got to or will always
00:14:07.140 Remain faithful to Rome
00:14:09.020 In Catholicism
00:14:10.240 He left doctrine alone
00:14:11.840 His first measure was to suppress 0.98
00:14:14.080 Many small and decayed monasteries 0.95
00:14:17.160 And to build with their plunder
00:14:19.060 His great foundation
00:14:20.300 of Cardinals College, afterwards known as Christchurch, in the University of Oxford.
00:14:26.000 So another thing to say, which will come up loads here, is the question of the monasteries.
00:14:29.840 So just to try and paint a picture of that. All over England, and there were hundreds,
00:14:34.120 maybe even thousands, there were certainly hundreds and hundreds of monastic houses.
00:14:39.200 Quite often they're just described as houses. What that means is a monastery, right? And
00:14:43.540 in centuries past, they would be filled with monks, and they would be great centres of
00:14:49.520 of learning of communities and served a really important sort of social purpose and all that
00:14:55.600 sort of thing and they became rich and they bought up land they became a whole giant power
00:15:00.460 structure in their own right and did some good things as I say learning like proto-hospitals
00:15:05.520 often all sorts of things but by the early 16th century a lot of them retained the land and the
00:15:13.000 money and the right to levy taxes on the local people but they'd fallen into disrepair disrepute
00:15:20.780 well Oman describes many of them as decayed that sometimes actual monastery itself is sort of
00:15:25.660 half in ruin falling down because the people that ran them the remaining monks often they were half
00:15:30.520 empty almost entirely empty of monks no one particularly wanted to be a monk not no one
00:15:34.800 very very fewer people wanted to become a monk by the 16th century and so where these houses
00:15:40.500 Were giant
00:15:41.160 And now they've only got
00:15:42.680 A handful of monks in them
00:15:43.760 But they're still
00:15:44.860 Raking in all the money
00:15:46.340 And owning all the land
00:15:47.440 Or a lot of money
00:15:48.520 And a lot of land
00:15:49.240 And people could see
00:15:50.460 That's not right
00:15:51.140 That's not fair
00:15:51.840 This is not
00:15:52.480 There's something
00:15:53.020 Gone terribly wrong here
00:15:54.300 There's a bishop
00:15:55.660 Who nominally
00:15:56.900 Or is
00:15:57.600 The head of this monastery
00:15:58.860 But there's only
00:15:59.700 A few monks there
00:16:00.660 He doesn't spend
00:16:01.640 Any of the money
00:16:02.300 On the monastery itself
00:16:03.320 Or in helping the people
00:16:04.620 In that area 0.86
00:16:05.740 He just rakes in
00:16:06.820 All the money
00:16:07.220 And he's also
00:16:09.200 Like a profligate
00:16:10.500 and he's also corrupt and in fact he's not even there very often nearly all the time he's not
00:16:15.380 even there he just rakes in the money for nothing he just goes there's no benefit to the normal
00:16:20.220 people it just goes straight into his pocket so a lot of people start to hate the monasteries
00:16:25.200 and so even before the reformation really really hits england already cardinal wolsey is beginning
00:16:31.740 to shut down and do away with some of the worst monasteries and just taking them all their money
00:16:37.040 and land it was not till about 1527 that england began to be drawn into the struggle which was
00:16:44.980 convulsing all continental europe and then the cause of quarrel came from the king's private
00:16:50.780 affairs and not from any doctrinal dispute and that is famously the fact that his wife catherine
00:16:59.560 of aragon who'd been married to for 20 plus years hadn't given him a son she'd had what was it four
00:17:05.840 or five different miscarriages or the child had died very very soon into infancy and she'd had
00:17:12.080 one they'd had one daughter together mary goes on to be mary the first queen mary the first bloody
00:17:17.200 mary so but henry wanted needed in his mind a son he absolutely needed a son because remember
00:17:24.080 the wars of the roses are in living memory or very nearly in living memory if you don't have
00:17:28.800 a son this is his thinking anyway if you don't have a son to pass the crown to then there may 0.82
00:17:35.200 may well be civil war and things other families will claim to be like the Della Poles will claim
00:17:40.780 to be on the Mortimers the the legitimate royal family so Henry feels he absolutely needs a son
00:17:47.640 at any price at any cost of course it turns out that a later daughter he has an Elizabeth
00:17:54.780 named after his mother Elizabeth of York goes on to be Elizabeth the first good queen best
00:18:01.360 and is one of the most successful, greatest monarchs we ever had.
00:18:05.780 A golden age, the golden age.
00:18:07.940 But all that's in the future.
00:18:09.600 And at this time, in Henry's mind, he just feels like he has to get a son.
00:18:14.000 And, OK, Catherine of Aragon is now probably too old to give him a son.
00:18:19.340 Somebody, was it Woolsey, described her as barren as a brick.
00:18:22.940 Pretty harsh.
00:18:23.620 But, OK, she can't give him a son and he needs a son. 0.96
00:18:28.340 So, ideally, he needs a new wife.
00:18:30.200 Well, he needs a new wife, doesn't he, for the child to be legitimate
00:18:33.040 But you don't really get divorced in these days
00:18:36.680 I mean, it is possible, but very difficult
00:18:40.100 You have to quite literally get the Pope himself to divorce you
00:18:44.320 Know your marriage, it's as difficult as that
00:18:46.820 But perhaps a king can get such a thing
00:18:49.480 Well, only if the Pope actually wants to
00:18:52.720 Only if the Pope isn't being bullied and coerced to not do that
00:18:57.060 Which sort of is the case
00:18:59.360 So Catherine of Aragon is, you know, an Aragonese princess
00:19:03.680 Spanish, she's Spanish
00:19:05.020 And the King of Spain doesn't want Henry to divorce her
00:19:09.360 Or get their marriage annulled
00:19:11.180 That would mean the King of Spain's position is heavily undermined
00:19:15.860 And the King of Spain, we'll get to all this in a moment
00:19:18.980 Is more powerful than Henry
00:19:22.360 Has got much more influence and power over the Pope
00:19:25.960 So this is what Henry wants
00:19:27.920 He wants a divorce or an annulment
00:19:29.320 from the Pope, but the Pope won't give it to him, can't really give it to him because the King of
00:19:36.360 Spain has got his thumb on the Pope's forehead and won't let him do such a thing. So a bit of an
00:19:42.700 impasse. We hope you enjoyed that video and if you did please head over to lotusseaters.com
00:19:48.580 for the full unabridged video.
00:19:59.320 Thank you.