The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Epochs #265 ｜ The Life of Henry VIII： Part III

00:00:00.000 Epochs!

00:00:20.060 Hello and welcome back to Epochs. If you remember last time we were talking all about Henry VIII.

00:00:25.460 So we should just continue the story straight from there. If you remember last time we had

00:00:28.960 got up to the point basically where Wolsey is the most powerful man in the country under the king

00:00:34.280 himself and we talked a little bit didn't we all about the power dynamic relationships between

00:00:38.820 France, Spain, Imperial Spain and England and how we're just beginning to get up to the point where

00:00:46.560 Henry realizes that he really wants needs a son and that his wife Catherine of Aragon isn't going

00:00:53.840 to be able to give him one but he can't divorce her or have his marriage annulled because well

00:01:01.580 it's the 16th century and they're catholics and only the pope could give him that and the pope's

00:01:06.120 not going to give him that because the pope is under the control of the spanish who is related

00:01:11.080 to catherine of arrogant so they just won't that's not going to happen so this is the whole point this

00:01:15.760 is probably the most famous part isn't it of the story of henry viii all to do with getting rid of

00:01:21.640 his old wife one way or another finding a new wife and trying to sire a son with her so should

00:01:28.820 we just pick up the story as always I'm reading from Professor Sir Charles Oman a late 19th

00:01:33.900 century early 20th century professor of history from Oxford University one of the best to ever do

00:01:38.440 it a gold standard and Sir Winston Churchill and his history of the English speaking people

00:01:42.260 who borrows heavily from Sir Charles Oman but we also get a fair few more details and and

00:01:50.100 Churchill is a great prose writer isn't he so I should be reading for both of those all right

00:01:54.600 let's pick up the story with a little bit of Professor Omar who wrote it will be remembered

00:02:00.120 that Henry had been asked by his father to Catherine of Aragon the widow of his brother

00:02:05.400 Arthur Prince of Wales marriage with a deceased brother's wife was illegal a papal dispensation

00:02:12.660 had been procured to remove the bar because of course the Spanish emperor wanted the pope to do

00:02:18.880 that, so it got done. See how it works? So a special papal dispensation had been procured

00:02:25.120 to remove the bar, and Henry had married Catherine on his accession, as soon as he

00:02:31.560 became king after his father's actual death, so that he could not plead compulsion on the part

00:02:37.480 of his father. The marriage was not a wise one, for the Queen, though a very gentle and virtuous

00:02:43.460 woman and die-hard Catholic, was six years older than her husband, had no personal attractions

00:02:49.600 and was delicate in health. All the children whom she bore to Henry died in infancy except one,

00:02:57.380 the Princess Mary, the Lady Mary, the Princess Mary, who of course will play a massive part in

00:03:01.860 everything going forward. By her 1527, Catherine was a confirmed invalid. She showed all the signs

00:03:09.520 Of premature old age

00:03:11.120 Though she was only 42

00:03:12.680 Now Henry VIII was morbidly anxious

00:03:15.740 For a son to succeed him

00:03:17.700 Remember I talked all about last time

00:03:19.260 How the Wars of the Roses are basically

00:03:21.440 Almost or more or less

00:03:22.860 Still in living memory

00:03:24.180 And the spectre of a civil war

00:03:26.840 Over a disputed claim to the throne

00:03:29.720 Was sort of the worst thing

00:03:31.060 In Henry VIII's mind

00:03:32.160 Or in most people's minds

00:03:33.540 That was sort of the nightmare situation

00:03:36.320 So he needs a son

00:03:39.280 He, Amelia, was the only surviving male of the House of Tudor 1.00

00:03:43.360 And could not bear the thought of leaving the throne to a sickly girl 0.99

00:03:47.600 His daughter Mary 0.87

00:03:48.940 Who also was, as it said there, sickly

00:03:52.220 She wasn't strong physically whatsoever

00:03:54.840 It was obvious that Catherine would bear him no more children 1.00

00:03:59.040 Again, very rudely she was described as being barren as a brick

00:04:02.720 And regardless of the duty and respect that he owed to her

00:04:07.480 he began to think of obtaining a divorce and marrying a younger wife. His project took a

00:04:13.620 definite shape when his eyes were caught by a beautiful Anne Boleyn, a niece of the Duke of

00:04:19.380 Norfolk, and one of the maids of honour. Becoming desperately enamoured of her, he resolved to press

00:04:25.960 for a divorce at once. Woolsey, who saw that the kingdom needed a male heir, undertook to procure

00:04:32.780 the Pope's consent to the repudiation of Catherine end quote so there we go we're we're now in this

00:04:39.740 phase of the reign and there's a lot more to it than what Oman tells us there when people look

00:04:45.720 into it in lots and lots of detail as much detail as we can with the surviving records this this

00:04:51.940 story of Henry VIII sort of falling in love with and becoming besotted with Anne Boleyn remember

00:04:58.660 Remember last time we talked about Mary Boleyn, her older sister, another niece of the Duke

00:05:03.380 of Norfolk, that Henry had just taken her as a lover at some point?

00:05:07.800 Henry had loads of lovers, like kings at this time, they could and did just take all sorts

00:05:12.960 of partners, but they're all illegitimate and not really talked about.

00:05:16.900 Well, one of those, just one of the many, was Mary Boleyn, but he'd had his way with

00:05:22.060 her and put her aside.

00:05:23.560 It was just a fling, right?

00:05:26.040 Well, but Anne Boleyn had seen that, right?

00:05:30.040 She'd watched all of that play out.

00:05:32.160 And as I say, Mary Boleyn wasn't the only one.

00:05:34.880 So when the king's eye turns on Anne,

00:05:38.600 she actually decides to play a bit differently

00:05:40.580 rather than just give the king whatever he wants.

00:05:43.040 She decides, you know, she understands that

00:05:45.460 there's a political situation here

00:05:47.320 where the king is actually looking for something

00:05:50.740 more than just a dangerous liaison.

00:05:53.720 He's looking for something more than just a bedfellow.

00:05:56.040 he actually wants and needs a wife now she's only the niece of the Duke of Norfolk so in other words

00:06:02.520 not massively aristocratic and not not really important in and of her own right she's certainly

00:06:08.040 not a big heiress or or you know a princess or a duchess or anything but nonetheless she will

00:06:14.740 probably do so Amberlynn makes the calculation correctly isn't it that okay I could potentially

00:06:23.420 Potentially, you know, hope of hopes

00:06:25.580 I could become the Queen of England

00:06:27.640 If I play my cards right here

00:06:28.940 And by playing her cards right

00:06:32.180 What I mean is

00:06:32.800 Not just give in to him physically

00:06:35.360 To hold out

00:06:37.340 And to force him to sort of

00:06:39.380 Formally, openly

00:06:40.900 Court her and accept her

00:06:42.940 And in fact even marry her 0.93

00:06:44.380 So that he can get sons 0.71

00:06:46.700 She can give him sons 1.00

00:06:47.860 You know, rather than just being one more fling 1.00

00:06:49.880 She could be the Queen of England

00:06:52.040 but you know it's a bit of a tightrope isn't it because apart from anything else it's dangerous

00:06:58.460 not to give Henry exactly what he wants immediately isn't it we've been through that we've talked all

00:07:03.940 about that for the last couple of episodes haven't we Henry's the type of man type of king 0.99

00:07:07.680 who doesn't take kindly to anyone not not giving in to him straight away I mean women is something 0.79

00:07:17.580 slightly different slightly different not massively different but it's a slightly different

00:07:22.160 he's not truly a Caligula or a Genghis Khan where if he says he wants to sleep with you and you say

00:07:27.040 no he just he just immediately kills you on the spot or has you killed it's not that but you know

00:07:32.600 it's dangerous if you refuse him too much he might just go off you and that's it and you're out of

00:07:37.720 favor then and you'll never be in court again and your whole family may even be ruined right so it's

00:07:43.400 the high stakes for her for the Bolin family or for the the entire Norfolk family it's high stakes

00:07:49.960 a balancing game you know you could become Queen of England and therefore their children the Duke

00:07:55.340 of Norfolk's progeny his family will be the royal family so there couldn't be any more on the line

00:08:01.660 again you play your card slightly wrong with Henry very slightly wrong and it's all off forget about

00:08:08.300 it, he'll move on to someone else. Charles Omar goes on saying this. But this task, i.e. Wolsey's

00:08:13.780 task of trying to get the Pope to give Henry VIII a formal divorce or annulment, but this task

00:08:20.380 proved more difficult than he had expected. Popes were generally indulgent enough to kings who would

00:08:26.720 pay handsomely for their heart's desire. But the reigning pontiff, Clement VII, was in an unhappy

00:08:33.820 position he was completely at the mercy of the emperor charles v whose troops had lately taken

00:08:40.360 and sacked rome so let me quickly talk about that we're in the reformation here as i keep saying

00:08:46.760 it's the age of luther and there'd been a protestant army marched on rome well it's

00:08:54.140 charles v's army it's a spanish army but a lot of them are german a lot of the mercenaries a lot of

00:08:58.580 the actual fighting men are German. And so he surrounded Rome and then when the men entered

00:09:04.820 Rome, the idea was to just get the Pope, not kill him or anything, but just get him, take him prisoner

00:09:11.100 essentially, get him, take him under your power. And that's sort of it. That was all that was

00:09:17.040 necessary politically. That's all Charles V really wanted or needed. But when the German Protestant

00:09:22.760 mercenaries got into rome they went a bit berserk not like you know not scorched earth not one brick 0.87

00:09:30.580 on top of another not like a carthaginian sacking where there's no city left after it and every man

00:09:36.200 woman and child is dead not that but they did they did go and sort of sack rome ruined it a bit i 0.65

00:09:42.880 mean it's already been sacked dozens of times since the ancient world but nonetheless they

00:09:46.980 sacked it again destroyed lots and lots and lots of things killed lots and lots of people all sorts

00:09:51.880 Of rape and pillage and murder

00:09:53.160 And did take the Pope prisoner

00:09:56.280 The Pope went into the Castel St Angelo

00:10:00.500 Which was originally Hadrian's tomb

00:10:02.620 But at this time served as like a bastion

00:10:06.220 Or a castle really

00:10:07.700 And the Pope retreated there 0.56

00:10:10.500 And the Emperor and the German troops 0.59

00:10:13.220 Were happy to leave him there 0.92

00:10:14.500 They know where he is

00:10:15.540 He can't get away

00:10:16.360 And he's under their control

00:10:18.760 One way or another

00:10:19.500 He's not literally in a cell

00:10:21.300 But he's captured

00:10:23.100 He's completely captured

00:10:24.100 And under their power

00:10:25.500 And he's only going to do

00:10:28.220 What they want him to do now

00:10:29.620 He's only going to do and say and decree

00:10:32.220 What Charles V of Spain wants him to

00:10:35.180 And Charles V of Spain

00:10:36.760 Doesn't want him to give Henry and Wolsey

00:10:39.620 This divorce

00:10:40.540 So he's not going to

00:10:41.680 So Wolsey's task is impossible

00:10:44.360 But Henry doesn't accept that

00:10:46.800 Henry doesn't like his will

00:10:48.460 Being defied

00:10:49.740 even by an emperor by the way i talked all about clement the seventh thing in my videos all about

00:10:55.440 the medici he's one of the medici popes isn't he quite a venal impious pope as far as popes go

00:11:02.740 and one goes on saying charles was resolved that his aunt catherine should not be divorced and pope

00:11:09.940 clement was mortally afraid of offending him instead therefore of granting the demand of

00:11:16.060 Henry VIII, he played for time and appointed two cardinals, Wolsey himself and the Italian Bishop

00:11:23.320 of Salisbury to investigate the question. So that's the thing. The Pope can't give Henry what

00:11:29.400 he wants, but in order to play for time, he says, okay, I'll send a special papal legate to look

00:11:34.420 into the situation. Again, it's all a gambit to play for time, but you know, pretending that he

00:11:40.480 might do it, pretending that if his special papal legate, the Cardinal Campeggio, if he goes and

00:11:48.120 spends a few days, weeks, months even, looking into the court, looking into all the details,

00:11:54.820 all the documents about Henry VIII and his brother Arthur and Catherine of Aragon's original marriage

00:12:01.160 and everything that's gone on and the original papal dispensation in the first place to let

00:12:05.900 Henry marry Catherine of Aragon in the first place, this papal legate, he'll look into everything,

00:12:10.480 With the suggestion being that he will find in Henry's favour

00:12:13.900 But he won't

00:12:15.340 Again, it's all just a gambit to play for time

00:12:17.720 And who knows what might happen

00:12:18.820 You know, this sort of thing might be able to string it out for a year or two

00:12:22.740 And in that time, the whole politics of everything might change

00:12:26.280 Charles V of Spain's armies might be called away elsewhere

00:12:29.000 Things in Rome might profoundly change

00:12:32.420 I mean, it's the only real card the Pope has got

00:12:35.160 As though the Pope finds himself in an impossible situation as well

00:12:38.500 As well as Wolsey

00:12:39.680 So that's all he can really do

00:12:42.040 So okay, the Campeggio gambit 0.72

00:12:44.540 Oman goes on saying

00:12:45.380 Henry and Wolsey hoped to force a prompt decision

00:12:48.740 But Campeggio deliberately hung back

00:12:51.380 And the Pope finally recalled him

00:12:53.180 And summoned the king to send his case to be tried at Rome

00:12:56.880 And that's in 1529

00:12:58.600 So, you know, wasting even more time

00:13:00.940 Campeggio finally can't draw it out for any longer

00:13:05.100 So the Pope calls him back

00:13:06.760 But the Pope still doesn't want to completely alienate the King of England

00:13:10.420 One of the three most powerful men in Western Europe

00:13:13.080 So he says, you know, as I've just read there

00:13:15.920 Okay, we'll decide this in Rome

00:13:18.700 Again, it could take months or a year or more

00:13:22.640 And whilst he's under the control of Spain

00:13:26.420 He's never going to give Henry what he wants

00:13:28.680 Henry wrongly thought that this check was due to some bungling

00:13:32.940 Or reluctance on the part of Wolsey

00:13:35.340 not seeing that the Pope's fears of the Emperor were the real cause. He at once withdrew his

00:13:41.380 support from the great minister Wolsey though Wolsey needed it more at this moment than ever

00:13:46.920 before for he was in great disfavour with the nation both for his arrogance and for the heavy

00:13:52.920 taxation which he had imposed on the land or rather Henry had made him impose on the land.

00:13:58.100 he had actually demanded from parliament the unprecedented tax of four pence on the pound

00:14:05.120 from all men's lands and incomes and though the house plucked up courage the house of parliament

00:14:11.520 plucked up courage to resist this extortionate claim he obtained as much as two pence it's all

00:14:18.020 very quaint isn't it in 1529 the cardinal fearing to meet another parliament had recourse to the old

00:14:25.280 device of benevolency on a larger scale than ever and if you remember benevolences is basically just

00:14:31.560 theft basically just going around saying the crown demands this amount of money now you're loyal

00:14:37.140 aren't you you still want to be alive don't you so give me your money that's what benevolences

00:14:43.680 are in this instance papal benevolences are something else so make sure you know the difference

00:14:49.100 This led to rioting and open resistance

00:14:52.500 Then the king, to the surprise of all men

00:14:55.160 Suddenly declared that Wolsey's action

00:14:57.760 Was taken without his knowledge and consent

00:15:00.780 And dismissed him from the office of Chancellor

00:15:03.280 Which he had held since 1515

00:15:06.240 So Wolsey's very quick fall from grace there

00:15:10.140 Henry said years later a number of times

00:15:12.800 Said I wish I hadn't got rid of Wolsey

00:15:15.360 I miss Wolsey

00:15:16.660 you know again in hindsight Wolsey was really good at his job he said that about a number of

00:15:21.880 people he said that about Thomas Cromwell years later years after the Cromwell years he said oh

00:15:26.380 he was really good actually I shouldn't have just got rid of him by the way just to let you know

00:15:31.080 Thomas Cromwell who will come into this story later I've got a whole epoch haven't I in

00:15:35.440 conversation with Luca was it even a two-parter all about Thomas Cromwell Thomas Cromwell just

00:15:39.920 to remind you if you haven't watched that one Thomas Cromwell this time is Cardinal Wolsey's

00:15:44.340 right-hand man, or one of his right-hand men. He's very, very low-born as well. He's just the son of

00:15:50.900 Putney Blacksmith. He's a complete nobody, really. Capable as an administrator and a politician,

00:15:57.420 basically. But he's just one of Woolsey's right-hand men. Anyway, he'll come up later in the

00:16:02.040 story, perhaps not even this epoch. Well, maybe. We'll see. We'll get to it. Oman goes on saying

00:16:07.720 this. His place as the king's chief councillor, Cardinal Woolsey we're talking about here,

00:16:12.420 Fell to the Duke of Norfolk

00:16:14.460 The uncle of Anne Boleyn

00:16:16.120 The king immediately proceeded

00:16:18.100 To treat the cardinal with great ingratitude

00:16:20.980 So Henry's favour has been rescinded

00:16:24.260 In this age, everything flows from the king

00:16:27.020 If you're in favour with him

00:16:28.840 It's all well and good 1.00

00:16:30.240 Riches and power beyond your wildest reckoning 0.99

00:16:33.400 But if he decides he doesn't like you and you're out

00:16:35.680 That's it, it's all over

00:16:36.880 It's all over

00:16:37.880 Wolves' harsh deeds had always been wrought

00:16:40.940 For his master's benefit

00:16:42.340 rather than his own but Henry chose to ignore this fact and to win a cheap popularity by

00:16:49.000 persecuting his old and faithful servant again that speaks volumes doesn't it about Henry's

00:16:53.680 character we said this earlier didn't we in one of the previous episodes but Henry on some level

00:16:58.700 quite often would seem jovial and nice and friendly and joke about and laugh about and be

00:17:03.700 kindly and conversational with normal people and all that sort of thing but he had that year

00:17:09.420 where he could be absolutely deadly, a ruthless, unbelievably ruthless, mean, cruel even. The idea

00:17:18.240 that someone served him absolutely faithfully, brilliantly really, for 15 odd years. But now

00:17:23.460 Henry's decided, it's just annoyed him a bit. And Henry's decided it's in his interest, Henry's

00:17:28.840 interest, to completely destroy him. He just did it, just does that. He doesn't care. Anne Boleyn

00:17:34.960 And her uncle Norfolk

00:17:36.420 Exasperated by the delay in the king's divorce

00:17:39.380 Because this has dragged on for a few years now

00:17:41.120 Oman makes it sound like this all happens

00:17:43.160 Very very quickly, no, this has dragged out over

00:17:44.860 A small number of years

00:17:46.320 Anne Boleyn and Norfolk, because they're just waiting

00:17:48.460 As soon as, one way or another

00:17:50.760 If and when, Catherine of Aragon

00:17:52.960 Is out of the way, well quite quickly

00:17:55.140 She can become Queen of England 1.00

00:17:56.580 Get her pregnant as quickly as possible 1.00

00:17:58.540 Right, Norfolk's happy 1.00

00:18:00.220 His family is now the royal family

00:18:02.580 Anne Boleyn's happy

00:18:04.520 She's got everything she would ever dream of

00:18:06.400 More than she could ever dream of

00:18:07.600 So they can't wait 0.99

00:18:09.220 They're chomping at the bit

00:18:10.160 And if Henry has decided Wolsey is the problem

00:18:13.480 Then Wolsey is the problem

00:18:15.460 Basically, you know

00:18:16.780 And so Anne Boleyn is an enemy of Wolsey

00:18:19.880 He should have been her greatest supporter

00:18:22.780 Her greatest lifeline

00:18:23.800 He could have got her what she wanted

00:18:26.240 But the fact that he can't

00:18:27.620 And Henry's now turned on him

00:18:29.200 Just means that he needs to get out of the way

00:18:32.240 He needs to be gone

00:18:33.680 So Norfolk and Anne Boleyn hate Wolsey now

00:18:37.860 True fall from grace for Cardinal Wolsey

00:18:40.200 Anne Boleyn and Norfolk are exasperated by the delay in the king's divorce

00:18:44.140 And they stirred up Henry to the attack

00:18:46.500 The cardinal was impeached for having accepted the title of legate from Rome

00:18:51.360 Without the king's formal leave many years before

00:18:54.300 It's a trumped up charge

00:18:55.440 Absolute trumped up charges

00:18:57.060 I mean technically formally, okay maybe

00:18:59.320 But in a normal course of events, no problem

00:19:01.400 when the king would be happy to have an English cardinal, but he's trying to find something to

00:19:07.200 get him on, formally, even legally, remove him, disgrace him. So he chooses that.

00:19:14.120 Oman says, Henry had made no objection at the time, and it was pure hypocrisy to pretend

00:19:19.760 indignation now. But Wolsey was declared to have incurred penalties under the statute of

00:19:25.840 which forbade dealings with Rome conducted without royal leave. He was condemned, deprived of all his

00:19:34.040 enormous personal property, and sent away from court to live in his archbishopric of York, i.e.

00:19:40.640 steal all your money and lands, send you away, send you up north to York. He'd never even been

00:19:45.900 to York. Whilst we get together more charges and a kangaroo court, and while we get all our ducks

00:19:51.900 in a row to probably charge you with treason maybe even execute you just go up north and stay quiet

00:19:57.400 and be there get out of sight and one says a year later henry again commenced to molest him and he

00:20:04.520 was on his way to london to answer a preposterous charge of treason when he died in leicester as

00:20:11.240 much of a broken heart as of any disease he had been arrogant and harsh in his day of power but

00:20:18.020 he had served his master so faithfully that nothing can excuse Henry's ingratitude.

00:20:24.240 Unfortunately for England, he had taught the king the dangerous lesson that he could go very far in

00:20:29.740 the direction of absolute and tyrannical government and escape from the consequent

00:20:34.320 unpopularity by throwing over his ministers. Henry used this knowledge to the full during the rest of

00:20:40.340 his reign, end quote. Very good point that Professor O mentions there because it does set

00:20:46.040 exactly that it sets the scene for how Henry conducts himself going forward that he can do

00:20:52.960 really really bad things basically tyrannical things or order other people to do them and

00:20:59.580 then when it gets out of hand and the people are upset there's even revolts and riots and

00:21:03.860 all sorts of things blame it all on that same person and then disgrace them and do away with

00:21:09.460 them even execute them just play that that that gambit replay that over and over and over again

00:21:16.040 yeah it's almost too easy isn't it if you're ruthless enough to do it and

00:21:20.960 Henry VIII it certainly is easily is we hope you enjoyed that video and if you

00:21:26.360 did please head over to lotusseaters.com for the full unabridged video

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - May 31, 2026

PREVIEW： Epochs #265 ｜ The Life of Henry VIII： Part III

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