The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREVIEW： Epochs #266 ｜ The Life of Henry VIII： Part IV

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome back to Epochs. If you remember last time we've been talking all about the life

00:00:25.520 and the reign of Henry VIII, the great Henry VIII.

00:00:29.060 So if you recall last time, we'd got up to sort of the point in his life,

00:00:33.720 probably the most important, well, maybe not the most important,

00:00:36.500 but the most famous part of his life, where he was putting his first wife,

00:00:40.700 Catherine of Aragon, who he was married to for 20 odd years,

00:00:42.780 putting her aside, trying to get a divorce or an annulment of his marriage to her

00:00:47.900 so that he can move on to somebody else and that his eye had fallen on Anne Boleyn,

00:00:53.760 one of the nieces of the Duke of Norfolk and so all of that is wrapped up in the disgrace

00:01:01.060 of Cardinal Wolsey and Cardinal Wolsey's pretty timely death around that same time

00:01:07.760 so we'll pick up the story with all of that and as I say it's probably one of the most well

00:01:12.740 documented most famous bits of Henry's life and reign because as well if you remember we started

00:01:18.540 to talk about last time it's all wrapped up with the break with rome and england becoming

00:01:25.200 a protestant country um one thing to say before we talk about that is that that was quite a

00:01:32.220 complicated thing henry was a difficult person if you haven't gathered already it's very clear

00:01:38.900 he's a difficult person a dangerous changeable person um and so even very late in his reign

00:01:46.260 towards the end of his life, sometimes someone would say something, they would say something

00:01:51.240 Protestant, and he would explode with anger and say, no, we're a Catholic country, I'm a Catholic,

00:01:57.040 even though he's been living as legally as a type of Protestant for years. So you might ask,

00:02:03.540 well, wait a minute, what? How does that make sense? Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Yeah,

00:02:06.340 it's not fair. It doesn't. He liked to keep people on their toes. And in terms of religion,

00:02:12.420 very much so so like around this time when he wants to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon

00:02:19.240 and marry Anne Boleyn he has to break with Rome formally legally say that England is no longer

00:02:25.320 part of the the Catholic world and that there will be a new church a whole new church in England

00:02:32.080 the Church of England of which he is king as monarch sovereign is the head of that church

00:02:37.540 So he's the ruler of England in all things

00:02:40.440 Secular and spiritual

00:02:42.380 Okay, but now as I say

00:02:44.560 The exact degree to which he is Protestant

00:02:48.540 Is never clear

00:02:50.300 He never makes it expressly perfectly clear

00:02:53.860 So he will still, all throughout the rest of his reign

00:02:56.520 Sometimes he will have people executed 0.76

00:02:59.200 Or burnt alive or something 1.00

00:03:00.340 For being a heretic 1.00

00:03:01.600 It's like, but wait, you're a heretic though 0.51

00:03:03.980 Strictly speaking, as far as orthodoxy 1.00

00:03:05.680 Catholic orthodoxy is concerned 1.00

00:03:07.160 You're a headache 1.00

00:03:08.140 But you're still going to burn people alive for it 1.00

00:03:10.360 Or at one point

00:03:12.240 It's okay to express certain types of Protestant ideas

00:03:16.360 And then a few days, weeks, years later

00:03:19.960 Someone else says something exactly the same

00:03:22.500 Or not even as far

00:03:23.940 And he'll get all angry about it

00:03:26.080 Right, so yeah

00:03:27.820 You never know where you stand with Henry

00:03:30.220 And that's exactly the way he wants it

00:03:32.500 Alright, well let's pick up the story about that time

00:03:35.200 Where Wolsey is thrown out of favour

00:03:36.860 and Henry has to get a new government and he starts the real process of breaking with Rome

00:03:42.260 and then of course as quickly as possible marrying Anne Boleyn. As always I should be reading from

00:03:48.240 Professor Sir Charles Oman an Oxford professor of history in the late 19th century very early 20th

00:03:53.860 century so all of his histories doesn't suffer from any sort of wokeness or any sort of silly

00:03:59.800 revisionism and Sir Winston Churchill's history of the English-speaking people because we get

00:04:05.900 slightly more detail there and the prose is very good so okay let me read start reading to you

00:04:12.020 again then from Omar who wrote this Wolsey's disgrace and the complete failure of the attempt

00:04:17.740 to win a divorce from the Pope had been leading the king into new paths he had taken to himself

00:04:23.680 two new counsellors in secular matters including everything to do with the law he gave his

00:04:29.840 confidence to Thomas Cromwell a clever low-born adventurer whom Wolsey had discovered and brought

00:04:35.880 to court. So if you remember I've said you can look back through the back catalogue of Epochs

00:04:42.360 and find an episode or two of me in conversation with the great Luca Johnson talking all about

00:04:48.800 just Thomas Cromwell and how he was in the first instance a creature of Wolsey. He was Wolsey's

00:04:56.620 right-hand man in some ways. So you might think many people have thought all through centuries

00:05:01.140 that's a bit of an odd decision isn't it that he doesn't henry doesn't make thomas cronwell

00:05:05.880 chancellor or anything not yet uh but he uses him as his sort of his right hand uh quite quickly

00:05:12.700 and you might think well wouldn't he want anyone and anything connected to wolsey to be in complete

00:05:18.980 disgrace and completely out of court and never sort of grace his doorstep ever again particularly

00:05:25.020 someone like thomas cronwell who is he really was wolsey's right hand man so he's just adopted him

00:05:30.600 everyone says or everyone knows really that the reason for that is is that Thomas Cromwell was

00:05:35.860 just very very very capable right there's just some people aren't there where they're just good

00:05:41.760 at their job sort of undeniably brilliant at their job and Thomas Cromwell was one of those people

00:05:46.620 he was very worldly he traveled a lot he traveled all over Europe he'd been to Italy and knew bankers

00:05:53.200 and things in Italy he knew the business of statescraft right he knew the law he knew the

00:05:59.360 law inside out he knew religion inside out and he was the type of religion stripe of religion

00:06:04.440 which was exactly what henry wanted i.e not really a fan of rome and the pope but not a full-blown

00:06:11.960 dyed-in-the-wool die-hard lutheran though who's prepared to be burnt alive for for the sake of it

00:06:19.720 for for virtue signaling so in other words he's exactly the type of kind of semi-proto-protestant

00:06:25.420 Henry needed and Thomas Cromwell being low-born was more than happy to work for the king I mean

00:06:32.800 you know if you're if you're a low-born person it's the greatest thing you could hope for really

00:06:37.540 in in those days is to be at court working for the king directly let alone actually talking to

00:06:45.500 the king let alone actually having an audience with the king regularly being one of his if not

00:06:51.240 his actual closest advisor so of course Thomas Cromwell who was an ambitious person very very

00:06:56.220 clever and ambitious person well Oman there calls him an adventurer he prepared to risk everything

00:07:02.460 all the time not a shrinking violet right and on top of all of that just just a capable man

00:07:09.420 you set him a task and he'll get it done you know like a fixer he can handle other men other

00:07:16.840 powerful dangerous men he can handle them he can manage them that's exactly the sort of minister

00:07:22.420 you want right the last thing you want in a minister is someone that's just weak weak-willed

00:07:27.300 weak-wristed slow of mind and action no no you want the opposite of that you want someone you

00:07:32.660 can just give them instructions and leave them to it and lo and behold it happens your will is done

00:07:37.620 that's exactly what henry liked and wanted and he found he found the right man thomas cromwell

00:07:43.480 fascinating person. Omar goes on saying, in matters religious, he, Henry, was beginning to

00:07:49.700 listen to his chaplain, his personal chaplain, Thomas Cramner. Now, I've also said how I intend

00:07:54.600 to do a whole episode just about Thomas Cramner. I've been thinking about it for a long, long time.

00:07:59.700 I nearly did a conversation with Calvin Robinson all about that a couple of years ago. It never

00:08:04.980 happened. It fell through. But I've been meaning to do a long form bit of content just talking

00:08:08.980 about Cranmer because he's extremely interesting person as well and I think I mentioned last time

00:08:14.340 that his life and his career goes on beyond Henry VIII one of the few that survived it all

00:08:20.020 Thomas Cranmer so now in various ways we'll get to Thomas more in a moment but Henry's two new

00:08:27.420 sort of most senior ministers are Thomas Cromwell and Thomas Cranmer and Thomas Cranmer and Thomas

00:08:31.520 Cromwell got on well together again they saw religion in basically the same way and that they

00:08:36.700 were able to work together. And that's something else Henry wanted. He was sick of sort of division

00:08:41.860 at court, where loads of people had hated Wolsey for years and years and years. There was all sort

00:08:46.540 of infighting and factional divisions. At least he could, in Thomas Cromwell and Thomas Cramner,

00:08:53.820 he could have two guys that would work together, pull together in the same direction at the same

00:08:58.320 time. So that suited Henry as well. All right, his personal chaplain, Thomas Cramner, a man with a

00:09:04.080 mixture of piety and weakness. Yeah, out of the two, Thomas Cromwell and Thomas Cromwell. Cromwell

00:09:08.920 was the senior one, if you like. Cromwell would sort of go along with what Thomas Cromwell and

00:09:16.040 Henry said very much more. One of the few Englishmen, Thomas Cromwell this is, who had as yet

00:09:21.980 been touched by the doctrines of the continental reformers. It was not, however, as a reformer that

00:09:28.180 Cromwell commended himself to his master. Indeed, he kept his Lutheran opinions very secret, which

00:09:33.900 was prudent at the moment because Henry hasn't made it explicitly clear that that's the way

00:09:41.180 he's going to go. So Crabner keeping his powder dryer for now. He had suggested to the king a new

00:09:47.760 method of dealing with the divorce question which Henry considered not unpromising. It might be

00:09:53.720 urged that marriage with a deceased brother's wife was so strictly and definitely forbidden

00:09:58.900 in the scriptures that the Pope had no authority to sanction it. And so the permissory bull of

00:10:04.940 Julius II might be scouted as so much waste paper. If you remember that papal bull he got in the

00:10:11.380 first instance in order to marry Catherine of Aragon years ago when his older brother Arthur

00:10:15.080 had died of natural causes, where the Pope said, it's okay, I give you my blessing to marry her.

00:10:22.740 Now Cram was saying, well, that was always nonsense. That doesn't count though, because

00:10:27.360 even the Pope can't make that sort of decision. I mean, you know, a bit weird that it's 20 years

00:10:32.880 later though. They've been married and had children, or a child at least, multiple pregnancies

00:10:38.200 and one surviving child. Henry eagerly swallowed this idea and sent round the question, stated as

00:10:44.520 a moot point to all the universities of Europe. About half of them answered, as he wished, that

00:10:50.360 the marriage was illegal from the first. Armed with this authority, he resolved to go further.

00:10:55.620 But first Henry was resolved to show the English clergy

00:10:59.780 That he was determined to stand no opposition from them on this point

00:11:03.880 He opened a campaign against all manner of church abuses 0.61

00:11:07.520 With the object of winning for himself popularity with the nation

00:11:11.400 By the cheap expedient of a pretended zeal for purity and piety

00:11:16.880 Because as I said before

00:11:19.140 Among some people, actually quite a lot of people

00:11:22.840 the church the catholic church was quite unpopular and had been for a few centuries

00:11:28.220 not the gospels not the scriptures let's be clear about this not christianity itself as a concept 0.82

00:11:36.700 but the church the ecclesiastical hierarchy popes and bishops that were just corrupt and venal 0.96

00:11:44.720 money grabbing sex criminals even a lot of people hadn't been happy about that for centuries so 0.91

00:11:51.920 if Henry cracks down on them a bit as as Omar says here a pretended zeal for purity and piety

00:11:58.460 people a lot of people are actually going to like that in the early 16th century. Omar goes on he

00:12:04.600 told the convocation of the clergy that they had all made themselves liable to the penalties

00:12:09.920 of pré-ménur that is basically the church trying to have authority above the crown

00:12:15.480 For recognising Wolsey as legate without the royal leave

00:12:19.360 They only got pardon by voting the king a large fine of £118,000

00:12:25.100 Which is obviously a large fortune in those days

00:12:29.320 He also caused convocation to address him as

00:12:32.940 Quote, supreme head as far as the law of Christ will allow

00:12:36.200 Of the English church and clergy, end quote

00:12:38.220 In other words, he's starting down the road

00:12:40.760 in fact quite a way down the road of repudiating the Pope saying that look the highest religious

00:12:48.900 authority in the world is not the Pope it's me what I say in this country goes okay if me and

00:12:57.280 the Pope disagree you go with me that's what he's saying okay then that is kind of new well it is

00:13:02.940 new for England you can have your religion and you can be Catholic and you can insist on Latin mass

00:13:08.460 And all that sort of thing

00:13:09.480 But again

00:13:10.620 If it comes down to me

00:13:12.400 Versus the Pope on something

00:13:13.960 I will not accept you 0.99

00:13:16.120 The clergy

00:13:17.080 Backing up the Pope

00:13:18.440 And arguing in favour of what the Pope says

00:13:20.240 It's my way or the highway

00:13:21.920 Even in spiritual matters

00:13:23.640 Classic Henry VIII really 0.85

00:13:25.240 Yeah so Oman says

00:13:26.720 The Supreme Head 0.91

00:13:28.020 As far as the law of Christ will allow

00:13:30.280 Of the English Church and clergy

00:13:31.760 Thus casting a slur

00:13:33.420 On the Pope's universal authority

00:13:35.360 Again it's not new

00:13:36.880 You know we've talked about before

00:13:38.380 Haven't we that going back to sort of the 13th century

00:13:41.160 Or even you could think about Charlemagne

00:13:43.500 Going back to the 8th century

00:13:45.020 There's been a tension between secular rulers

00:13:48.660 Between kings and popes

00:13:50.700 This isn't new

00:13:51.860 There's centuries here of both of them

00:13:54.780 Trying to be the highest authority in the world

00:13:57.880 Whether it's the papal diadem or the secular crown

00:14:02.000 Here Henry is saying oh that's over

00:14:04.740 We're done with any question of any of that

00:14:07.100 It's me, it's the king, it's the crown

00:14:08.920 Not Rome

00:14:10.400 Convocation was also forced to submit to an act of parliament

00:14:15.260 Which swept away two ancient abuses

00:14:17.940 The right to claim, quote, benefit of clergy, quote

00:14:21.320 When accused of felony

00:14:23.040 And so to escape the king's justice

00:14:25.240 That is, that there used to be different courts for clergymen

00:14:31.180 If it was a vicar or a dean or a bishop or something

00:14:34.260 You could claim, no, the king's writ

00:14:36.840 The king's law doesn't apply to me exactly

00:14:38.920 If I've done a crime, a felony

00:14:40.800 I'm tried by

00:14:42.820 A special church court

00:14:44.680 And whatever they decide is the verdict

00:14:46.960 Henry's saying, no, we're done with that

00:14:48.840 Again, it's been something that's been argued about

00:14:50.960 For a few centuries already

00:14:52.100 Henry's saying, no, none of that

00:14:54.260 We can't have that, all that's over

00:14:56.980 You cannot escape the king's justice

00:14:59.280 And the power of evading the statute

00:15:02.980 Of Mortmain

00:15:04.020 By receiving legacies under trust

00:15:06.840 instead of in full proprietorship money and land that the church can't necessarily just own money

00:15:13.860 and land forever you know it's given to them at some point they bought it at some point and that's

00:15:17.760 it that's the end of the story for all time they own it now not so much you can hold it in trust

00:15:22.180 maybe from the king but you haven't necessarily got a freehold forever and ever okay oh my god

00:15:27.920 the pope still proving recalcitrant in the matter of the divorce i.e not giving henry his divorce

00:15:33.280 Henry took the further step of threatening to cut off the main contribution which England sent to

00:15:38.840 Rome, the annati or first fruits, paid by all benefices when they changed hands. A type of

00:15:45.660 religious tax. Henry was saying, no, we're not sending all that money to Rome anymore, just as

00:15:50.880 a matter of course, for nothing, effectively. No, no, no. Again, that's done, that's over. This menace

00:15:56.160 did not bring Clement VII to reason, i.e. giving Henry his divorce. Henry at last took the step

00:16:02.380 Which involved a fatal breach with Rome 0.98

00:16:04.960 He appointed the pliant Archbishop of Canterbury

00:16:08.040 And bade him try the question of the divorce

00:16:10.880 In an English ecclesiastical court

00:16:13.080 I.e. one he controlled

00:16:14.260 Without any further application to Rome

00:16:16.680 Queen Catherine refused to appear before such a tribunal 0.78

00:16:20.500 And formally appealed to the Pope's justice 0.88

00:16:23.700 But proceeded with the trial

00:16:25.700 Declared the marriage contrary to the law of God

00:16:29.200 And pronounced the king free from all his tyres 0.68

00:16:32.440 And able to wed again

00:16:33.760 You see what sort of a seismic change this is

00:16:37.860 Right 1.00

00:16:38.720 England has been Catholic ever since 1.00

00:16:41.820 Like St Augustine 1.00

00:16:43.200 Well over a thousand years

00:16:44.460 A thousand years

00:16:45.300 It's a seismic thing really

00:16:47.080 And if you were a hardline Catholic yourself

00:16:49.560 Or not even a hardline

00:16:50.160 You're just a practicing orthodox Catholic

00:16:52.180 You would be extremely worried by this

00:16:55.120 You know quite literally your soul

00:16:56.920 might be doomed to hell and things if the church excommunicates the whole country you can never go

00:17:04.220 to heaven things like that you know very very serious anyone says even before the decision

00:17:09.160 was announced henry has secretly married anne boleyn in january 1533 and the moment that the

00:17:15.720 court had given judgment he presented her to the nation as queen of england the unhappy catherine

00:17:21.340 retired into privacy at Kim Bolton where she survived nearly three years. She pined away,

00:17:28.200 never had great health. She basically pined away and died. The Pope at once declared the new

00:17:33.860 marriage illegal and threatened Henry with an excommunication. Many good men were scandalized

00:17:39.980 to see the King repudiate a wife who had lived as his faithful spouse for 20 years.

00:17:46.400 Murmurings and prophecies of ill filled the air and Henry felt that trouble was brewing.

00:17:51.340 but he only hardened his heart and caused parliament to pass a bill for cutting short

00:17:56.560 the pope's spiritual authority over england unless he should acknowledge the validity of

00:18:01.560 the new marriage within three months clement refused to be bullied into compliance and the

00:18:07.680 rupture came later that's later in 1533 so again it gives you the idea of how henry just won't put

00:18:14.060 up with anyone standing against him right even the pope even a thousand years of catholic tradition

00:18:19.040 It's like, no, I want to do this now

00:18:21.340 I'm going to do this now

00:18:22.440 And the whole world, quite literally

00:18:24.900 Will have to bend to his will

00:18:26.540 Queen Anne soon bore the king a daughter

00:18:29.100 The famous Queen Elizabeth

00:18:30.880 And Henry then ordered all his subjects

00:18:33.620 To take an oath

00:18:34.760 Repudiating all obedience to papal orders

00:18:37.620 And acknowledging the child 0.88

00:18:39.360 As rightful heiress of the realm

00:18:41.000 To the prejudice of his elder daughter, Mary

00:18:43.740 Remember, he's already got a surviving child

00:18:46.180 From Catherine of Aragon, Mary 0.51

00:18:48.660 Mary's the older sister 0.98

00:18:49.840 They're half sisters right 0.99

00:18:51.500 Bloody Mary 0.94

00:18:52.940 Goes on to be Mary the first 0.99

00:18:54.680 And Queen Elizabeth the first

00:18:57.160 Good Queen Bess 0.97

00:18:58.440 The famous one 0.99

00:18:59.580 They're sisters right 0.95

00:19:00.860 They're half sisters

00:19:01.540 And Mary's the elder one

00:19:03.400 With the

00:19:03.840 Well

00:19:04.360 Nominally

00:19:05.460 The greater claim

00:19:06.780 But because she's older

00:19:08.000 But

00:19:08.500 As I just said there

00:19:10.120 Henry

00:19:10.620 Made everyone

00:19:11.740 Swear obedience

00:19:13.080 In fact even

00:19:14.180 Sign an oath

00:19:15.300 That the rightful heir

00:19:16.740 At this point

00:19:17.360 At this point

00:19:17.900 where there's still no boy on the on the scene that Elizabeth is the rightful heir to the throne

00:19:24.060 not Mary completely disinheriting Mary right okay this oath many persons refused to take

00:19:30.520 since it openly disavowed the Pope's authority over the English church the chief of them was

00:19:35.940 Sir Thomas More a learned and virtuous statesman who had succeeded Wolsey as chancellor again

00:19:42.080 we've got I've got content with Luca again talking just all about Thomas More and how even

00:19:47.080 though Thomas Cromwell had been made sort of Henry's political right-hand man the actual

00:19:53.440 chancellorship a sort of the formal something like a prime minister it's not prime minister

00:19:58.420 but something like that had gone to Thomas More now that was a strange choice everyone's noted

00:20:05.960 that's a very strange choice of Henry to do that because everyone knew everyone knew that Thomas

00:20:11.920 Moore was a staunch Catholic a 100% Catholic was never he hated Luther hated Luther with a passion

00:20:21.380 would have burnt Luther alive if he could have done was never going to accept all these spurious

00:20:27.840 and shaky reasons why Henry had divorced or had his marriage annulled to Catherine of Aragon he

00:20:33.260 was never going to accept that but Henry would have needed his chancellor to accept that of course

00:20:38.160 So why did he pick him?

00:20:40.240 Well, probably because exactly that reason

00:20:42.860 Thomas More was extremely famous in his own right

00:20:45.480 One of the most famous men in all of Europe

00:20:47.380 He was a famous writer and theologian

00:20:50.260 It was a strange pick to make him the Chancellor

00:20:52.700 But many have thought, it's almost certainly true

00:20:55.060 I think it's true that Henry picked him

00:20:57.620 Because he was one of those people

00:20:59.500 That was unlikely to bend to Henry's will

00:21:02.320 So Henry would sort of make an example of him

00:21:05.020 Look, even the great Thomas More has given in to me

00:21:08.220 Even Thomas More sees that I am right

00:21:11.820 And that my will is correct and just

00:21:14.020 So if Thomas More, one of the hardest hardliners you can imagine

00:21:18.640 If he's gone along with me, nobody else has got a leg to stand on

00:21:22.180 That was almost certainly the thinking, the calculation from Henry

00:21:25.320 It was a problem though, because when push came to shove

00:21:28.780 When it came to the crunch time

00:21:30.840 When the moment came

00:21:32.660 Where Thomas More, the Chancellor

00:21:35.060 Had to sign the oath

00:21:37.320 You know, renouncing the authority of the Pope in England

00:21:40.100 And accepting Anne Boleyn as the Queen

00:21:42.180 And Elizabeth as the rightful heir

00:21:43.840 Thomas More refused

00:21:45.560 What happens to people that refuse Henry VIII?

00:21:49.100 Well, they're in a spot of bother, aren't they?

00:21:52.180 You may well quite quickly find yourself

00:21:54.180 Coming to a very sticky end, in fact

00:21:56.740 Okay, so the chief among them

00:21:58.900 Who refused to sign the oath

00:22:00.220 was Sir Thomas More, the learned and virtuous statesman who had succeeded Wolsey as Chancellor

00:22:05.960 and Fisher, Bishop of Rochester. Henry cast them into prison and soon after causing Parliament to

00:22:12.600 pass the Act of Supremacy, this is like the formal parliamentary act, which declared him quote

00:22:18.560 Supreme Head of the Church of England and a treason act pronouncing anyone who denied him this title

00:22:25.100 Guilty of high treason

00:22:26.240 Under this ferocious edict

00:22:28.840 More and Fisher were beheaded

00:22:31.080 And many other minor personages

00:22:33.360 Suffered with them

00:22:34.500 So when push came to shove

00:22:36.760 Thomas More refused to go along with it

00:22:39.120 What Henry wanted

00:22:40.400 And so the ball is back in Henry's court

00:22:43.300 How's he going to deal with that?

00:22:44.780 Is he going to let Thomas More get away with it?

00:22:47.120 Like maybe make one exception

00:22:48.640 Or keep him in prison

00:22:51.300 For a very long time if not ever

00:22:53.100 Or exile him 0.81

00:22:54.580 Make him go and live in France or Italy or something 1.00

00:22:57.320 Or burn him alive 1.00

00:22:59.200 Put him on trial for treason 1.00

00:23:01.120 And burn him alive 1.00

00:23:02.460 Well, he went on trial for treason 1.00

00:23:04.760 Was sentenced to being burnt alive

00:23:06.160 And then at the last minute Henry said 1.00

00:23:07.500 Alright, I'll let you merely have your head cut off 1.00

00:23:10.120 Because being burnt alive is so awful 1.00

00:23:12.060 So that's what he did

00:23:13.280 One of the most famous men in Europe

00:23:14.620 His own Chancellor

00:23:16.220 And Archbishop Fisher

00:23:18.000 Everyone continues saying

00:23:19.180 Pope Paul III

00:23:20.220 Who had just succeeded to Pope Clement's tiara

00:23:22.800 By becoming Pope

00:23:24.220 Now caused a bull to be drawn up against his enemy

00:23:27.840 And that was on December the 15th in 1535

00:23:31.340 He not only pronounced King Henry an excommunicated person

00:23:35.360 But declared him to be deposed from his throne

00:23:38.500 It was now war to the knife between King and the papacy

00:23:42.620 And the rest of Henry's reign was to be taken up with the struggle

00:23:46.080 During the 12 years that he had left to live

00:23:48.660 He spent all his energies in severing every link that still bound England to Rome

00:23:53.560 All right, so as I keep saying

00:23:56.020 You don't defy Henry, even if you're a Pope

00:23:58.520 So Henry repudiates the Pope

00:24:01.520 But also, Popes don't take that sort of thing lightly, do they?

00:24:04.920 They can't, basically

00:24:05.920 So the Pope excommunicates Henry

00:24:08.420 And what do you think Henry does?

00:24:10.340 He doesn't come slinking back

00:24:11.440 He doesn't try and make a deal the way King John did

00:24:14.100 No, he's right

00:24:15.200 Okay, oh, if you're going to be like that

00:24:16.680 Well, then it's on

00:24:18.540 It's 100% on

00:24:19.640 I didn't even necessarily want to be a Lutheran

00:24:22.600 when I was younger I wrote a book repudiating Luther and if it wasn't for my the the fact that

00:24:29.220 I haven't got any sons and I need to get remarried if it wasn't for any of that probably wouldn't be

00:24:33.240 doing this but oh but now you've defied me all right okay so I'm just going to double down and

00:24:39.140 double down and keep doubling down that's who Henry is we hope you enjoyed that video and if

00:24:45.340 you did please head over to lotusseaters.com for the full unabridged video

00:24:52.600 Thank you.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - June 07, 2026

PREVIEW： Epochs #266 ｜ The Life of Henry VIII： Part IV

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