The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - August 02, 2026


PREVIEW： Epochs #274 ｜ Diocletian - Part 3


Episode Stats


Length

20 minutes

Words per minute

160.47

Word count

3,265

Sentence count

51

Harmful content

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome back to Epochs. If you remember last time, or the last few times, we've been
00:00:26.060 doing a mini-series where ultimately I want to talk about Constantine the First, Constantine the
00:00:31.500 Great. But if you've been watching the other few episodes, you'll know that what I want to do is
00:00:35.920 really, really set up that story. And in order to do that, talk about the generation before
00:00:41.560 Constantine and the world in which he was born into and grew up in. So talking about his father,
00:00:48.360 Constantius, and the entire Roman Empire and politics of that world, the world of the late
00:00:55.240 3rd century the 200s BC and the the person that dominated it the Roman Emperor the most senior
00:01:03.080 of many Roman Emperors was Diocletian so we should continue the story uh leaving off a little roughly
00:01:09.580 where we were last time I'm going to miss out a little bit from Gibbon reading reading from
00:01:12.920 Edward Gibbons the decline of all the Roman Empire a master work in my opinion in a lot of people's
00:01:18.900 opinions some people don't like Gibbon they think maybe it's a bit old-fashioned and uh I suppose
00:01:24.240 it is quite antiquated diction you know the words he uses are quite old-fashioned but i love that
00:01:29.920 i hope you guys are liking it uh so talking about diocletian and the rule of the four emperors you
00:01:34.580 remember the the tetrarchy so there was two main emperors emperors augustus the augusti which was
00:01:42.880 diocletian and maximian but of the two diocletian is the more senior one so even though there's
00:01:48.540 four emperors there is like the main most important one diocletian then his co-emperor
00:01:53.100 maximian and then there were two junior emperors the caesars galerius in the east and constantius
00:02:02.280 who's constantine's father and last time last episode we talked all about uh the the state of
00:02:08.160 the empire and that the roman world had been going through the so-called crisis of the third century
00:02:12.680 just endless invasions from barbarian peoples all over the entire roman world all the way from
00:02:20.520 Britain all through the Danube in northern Germany all through the Balkans and in the east 0.91
00:02:26.860 out in what is modern day Iraq and Syria and Armenia in Egypt and North Africa the whole thing
00:02:32.180 and an endless succession near endless succession of Roman emperors murdering each other and usurping
00:02:38.440 each other and generals having proclaimed emperor and usurpations and all sorts of things as well
00:02:44.100 as a financial crisis as well okay but last time we left off didn't we where I told you about the
00:02:49.380 various problems and issues that had been put down in britain and in the near east and then in the
00:02:55.520 far east the furthest eastern stretches of the roman empire that war of the diocletian or really
00:03:02.940 galerius fought against the persian king narses and that the romans won it and that they came to
00:03:10.820 a peace which lasted for a long time it was a sort of solid peace for quite a while that was where we
00:03:16.600 left off last time so I'm going to skip a few pages so I'm going to skip a few pages from Gibbon
00:03:23.200 which aren't massively important and carry on the narrative where I think it is important and gets
00:03:29.580 good again so reading from Edward Gibbon writing in the very late very late 18th century early
00:03:36.580 19th century he wrote this quote the arduous work of rescuing the distressed empire from tyrants and
00:03:43.460 barbarians had now been completely achieved by a succession of illyrian peasants illyria is what
00:03:50.260 the romans called uh the bit of land which we now call basically albania or a big bit of croatia
00:03:56.420 you know that part of the world above greece you know like in the balkans that's illyria
00:04:01.520 and a fair few of the emperors here diocletian was illyrian a peasant is maybe a bit much but
00:04:09.000 not all that, not all that much. That is a fair thing to say. The empire had been secured. The
00:04:13.480 crisis of the 3rd century, historians and scholars say, was kind of over at this point. And it had
00:04:18.820 been secured by a succession of Illyrian peasants. As soon as Diocletian entered into the 20th year 0.97
00:04:25.200 of his reign, he celebrated that memorable era, as well as the success of his arms, by the pomp
00:04:32.300 of a Roman triumph. Now, a quick thing to say about the Roman triumph, if you've watched epochs
00:04:36.940 before or you know your roman history you know that triumphs are an extremely important thing
00:04:41.800 it's something like a parade right do you remember america used to maybe used to have
00:04:46.800 ticker tape parades after world war ii or when the first apollo astronauts come back you'd have
00:04:52.260 a ticker tape parade something like that but it's much much much much much more than that
00:04:58.220 it's something it's got political overtones and it's basically the highest honor you could ever
00:05:06.480 dream of being part of a tickle tape parade nowadays might be nice might not it would be
00:05:12.020 an ego boost but it's no more than that is it whereas this it goes down in history it goes down
00:05:17.360 in the annals of roman history for all time very very few men got to celebrate a triumph well we're
00:05:23.180 now in the third century ad so it's very different sort of the age of the republic in the age of the
00:05:27.560 republic you know in the age of Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus say or Pompey a triumph was more important
00:05:34.600 than it is now at this point it really was the pinnacle of your career it's more important than
00:05:39.440 becoming the consul or a pro consul governor of a big chunk of the empire it's much more important
00:05:45.060 than that it was the most prestigious thing families aristocratic roman families would 1.00
00:05:49.600 turn the world upside down so that one of their members might have a triumph that's how important 1.00
00:05:56.280 it was well ever since the age of augustus triumphs had become something slightly different
00:06:01.800 They'd become something that only really the emperor ever celebrated
00:06:05.600 They wouldn't allow someone below them to have a triumph
00:06:09.040 Because then they might become overpowerful
00:06:11.940 And get ambitious ideas above their station
00:06:13.500 And it'd become much more ceremonial
00:06:16.100 And less like a real, real honour
00:06:19.000 And more like a ceremonial thing
00:06:22.220 And triumphs hadn't been given out all that much
00:06:25.620 Emperors for a while hadn't had the time and the energy and the money
00:06:30.140 To throw themselves a triumph
00:06:34.120 But Diocletian did
00:06:35.740 He spent 20 years making the empire safe
00:06:39.100 Bringing it away from the brink of complete collapse
00:06:43.120 And now, finally, he throws himself a Roman triumph
00:06:48.040 Gibbon goes on saying
00:06:49.460 Maximian, the equal partner of his power
00:06:52.120 Although not truly, truly equal
00:06:54.600 But at least on paper it's supposed to be
00:06:56.060 The equal partner of his power
00:06:57.900 was his only companion in the glory of that day. The two Caesars, Constantius, Constantine's father,
00:07:05.040 and Galerius, had fought and conquered, but the merit of the exploits was ascribed, according to
00:07:11.220 the rigor of ancient maxims, to the auspicious influence of their fathers and emperors. The
00:07:17.340 triumph of Diocletian and Maximian was less magnificent, perhaps, than those of Aurelian
00:07:22.620 and Probus, but it was dignified by several circumstances of superior fame and good fortune.
00:07:29.120 Africa and Britain, the Rhine, the Danube and the Nile, furnished their respective trophies,
00:07:34.780 but the most distinguished ornament was of a more singular nature, a Persian victory,
00:07:40.880 followed by an important conquest. The representations of rivers, mountains and
00:07:45.460 provinces were carried before the imperial car. The images of the captive wives, the sisters and
00:07:51.440 the children of the great king afforded a new and grateful spectacle to the vanity of the people
00:07:56.740 in the eyes of posterity this triumph is remarkable by a distinction of a less honorable kind
00:08:03.060 it was the last that rome ever beheld soon after this period the emperors ceased to vanquish and
00:08:10.440 rome ceased to be the capital of the empire end quote just to cut ahead just let you know what
00:08:15.640 gibbons talking about there after the reign of constantine broadly speaking broadly speaking
00:08:23.660 that's kind of the last golden age of rome ancient rome ancient rome in the west certainly
00:08:29.460 and they suffer another long period of decline until the end of the roman empire in the west
00:08:37.020 in the west and where gibbon says rome ceased to be the capital yeah it was because rome keeps
00:08:43.600 getting invaded by foreign tribesmen and barbarians all over the place, it was thought that Rome was
00:08:49.080 a bit too indefensible and wasn't in the ideal place in order to defend Italy and defend sort
00:08:55.740 of southern central Europe, and that a place called Ravenna was a better place to hold the
00:09:00.880 capital. And so Rome still nominally was, you know, the mother city. That could never be taken away
00:09:06.560 from it. But as for the seat of the emperors, it moved to Ravenna. But that's in generations to come.
00:09:13.600 Okay, Gibbon continues saying
00:09:15.320 The spot on which Rome was founded had been consecrated by ancient ceremonies and imaginary miracles
00:09:21.300 The presence of some god or the memory of some hero seemed to animate every part of the city
00:09:26.980 And the empire of the world had been promised to the capital
00:09:30.480 That is one of the seven hills of Rome where the seat of government was on the capital hill
00:09:36.260 The empire of the world seemed to be promised to Rome
00:09:39.100 The native Romans felt and confessed the power of this agreeable illusion
00:09:43.480 It was derived from their ancestors
00:09:46.180 Had grown up with their earliest habits of life
00:09:49.400 And was protected in some measure by the opinion of political unity
00:09:53.880 The form and the seat of government were intimately blended together
00:09:57.200 Nor was it esteemed possible to transport the one without destroying the other
00:10:01.800 But the sovereignty of the capital was gradually annihilated in the extent of conquest
00:10:07.380 I.e. the Roman Empire was too big to be ruled by a one city, one city state
00:10:13.280 That's the idea that Rome is a city state
00:10:15.900 It just happens to control lots of land
00:10:18.580 Well the empire was just too big and complicated for that anymore
00:10:22.240 It had been for a long time, centuries
00:10:24.620 Now the Roman political system recognises that
00:10:28.820 It had been known for a while
00:10:31.120 But who was going to really, who even really had the power
00:10:35.120 To profoundly change things enough to deal with it properly
00:10:37.940 Well somebody like Diocletian thought he could, or did
00:10:41.640 The provinces rose to the same level
00:10:44.080 And the vanquished nations acquired the name and privilege 0.63
00:10:47.840 Without imbibing the partial affections of Romans
00:10:51.140 What he's saying there is
00:10:52.800 There were places in the empire that were as rich, if not richer, than Rome
00:10:57.820 As powerful in their region as Rome
00:11:00.840 And that the conquered peoples would call themselves Roman 0.95
00:11:05.020 Consider themselves Roman 0.58
00:11:06.160 Lived under some sort of Romano culture
00:11:09.140 and were part of a shared economy and things but they weren't truly Roman you know they didn't
00:11:16.500 truly truly really really care if Rome itself the actual city of Rome was destroyed or not
00:11:23.260 that's an important thing isn't it an important thing Gibbon says during a long period however
00:11:29.040 the remains of the ancient constitution and the influence of custom preserved the dignity of Rome
00:11:34.480 I said that before
00:11:35.280 They've still got consoles and creators and creators and tribunes
00:11:38.600 And all that sort of thing
00:11:39.880 The ancient norms of government
00:11:42.260 But whether they had been either completely superseded by the imperial rule
00:11:48.900 They were just paper titles
00:11:51.340 Or whether they actually functioned
00:11:54.280 It's somewhere between those two things
00:11:55.940 And it would depend exactly what period you're talking about
00:11:59.140 Exactly which emperor you're talking about
00:12:01.520 Gibbon says
00:12:02.400 The emperors, though perhaps of African or Illyrian extraction
00:12:05.920 North African that would be
00:12:07.400 People of European, usually Italian descent
00:12:10.100 That just happened to be in Africa
00:12:11.380 Not actual sub-Saharan Africans
00:12:12.980 North Africans
00:12:14.380 Whether they be of African or Illyrian extraction 1.00
00:12:17.320 Respected their adopted country 0.99
00:12:19.800 As the seat of their power 0.99
00:12:21.460 And the centre of their extensive dominions
00:12:24.420 The emergencies of war very frequently required
00:12:27.520 Their presence on the frontiers
00:12:29.360 Nearly all the time
00:12:30.460 During the crisis of the 3rd century
00:12:32.240 Anyway, nearly all the time
00:12:33.160 But Diocletian and Maximian
00:12:35.240 Were the first Roman princes
00:12:36.760 Who fixed, in time of peace
00:12:38.600 Their ordinary residence in the provinces
00:12:40.780 They weren't stationed
00:12:42.480 They didn't live in Rome
00:12:43.720 They lived on the frontiers in various ways
00:12:46.400 And their conduct
00:12:48.180 However it might be suggested by private motives
00:12:50.700 Was justified by very auspicious considerations of policy
00:12:54.640 They had to do that
00:12:56.200 They had to live on the frontiers
00:12:58.880 And in the provinces
00:12:59.580 The empire just wasn't stable enough
00:13:02.000 just to spend years on end sitting in your villa in Rome and let the armies and the governors get
00:13:08.740 on with it it was it was too fractured and unstable to do that and as we said one emperor isn't enough
00:13:14.860 you needed four and that's what Diocletian given says the court of the emperor of the west was for
00:13:20.960 the most part established at Milan whose situation at the foot of the Alps appeared far more convenient
00:13:27.240 than that of Rome, for the important purpose of watching the motions of the barbarians of Germany.
00:13:33.200 Milan soon assumed the splendour of an imperial city. The houses were described as numerous and
00:13:39.580 well-built, the manners of the people as polished and liberal. A circus, a theatre, a mint, a palace,
00:13:46.480 baths, which bore the name of their founder, Maximian. Porticos adorned with statues and a
00:13:53.280 double circumference of walls contributed to the beauty of the new capital, nor did it seem
00:13:58.220 oppressed even by the proximity of Rome. To rival the majesty of Rome was the ambition likewise of
00:14:04.240 Diocletian, who employed his leisure and the wealth of the East in the establishment of Nicomedia,
00:14:11.020 a city placed on the verge of Europe and Asia, almost at an equal distance between the Danube
00:14:16.180 and the Euphrates. By the taste of the monarch and at the expense of the people, Nicomedia acquired,
00:14:22.080 in the space of a few years, a degree of magnificence which might appear to have required
00:14:27.300 the labour of ages, and became inferior only to Rome, Alexandria and Antioch in extent and
00:14:33.380 populousness. The life of Diocletian and Maximian was a life of action, and a considerable portion
00:14:39.800 of it was spent in camps, military camps, or in their long and frequent marches, but whenever the
00:14:46.400 public business allowed them any relaxation, they seemed to have retired with pleasure to their
00:14:50.920 favourite residences of Nicomedia and Milan. See, Rome itself isn't in the ideal spot
00:14:56.440 halfway down Italy. It's a bit out of the way. If you need to suddenly respond to a barbarian
00:15:03.160 invasion, you're a bit too far away. The barbarians could make inroads and cause all sorts of havoc 0.98
00:15:08.960 before you even get there. Till Diocletian, in the 20th year of his reign, established his Roman 0.85
00:15:14.080 triumph, it is extremely doubtful whether he ever visited the ancient capital of the empire.
00:15:18.460 even on that memorable occasion his triumph his stay did not exceed two months disgusted with the
00:15:25.520 licentious familiarity of the people he quitted Rome with precipitation 13 days before it was
00:15:32.360 expected that he should have appeared in the senate invested with the ensigns of the consular
00:15:37.600 dignity end quote that says a lot doesn't it Diocletian may well never have even been to Rome
00:15:43.480 he was a Roman general
00:15:45.360 had been for years
00:15:46.440 had been the Roman emperor
00:15:47.600 for 20 years
00:15:49.160 might not even have been to Rome
00:15:50.540 and then when he did
00:15:51.260 finally feel like
00:15:52.960 just to celebrate his triumph
00:15:54.980 he was supposed to stay there
00:15:56.620 for a while
00:15:57.100 so that he could go before
00:15:58.340 the Roman senate
00:15:59.060 which of course
00:15:59.640 all still existed
00:16:00.620 remember I'm saying
00:16:01.300 they still got consoles
00:16:02.440 and elections for consoles
00:16:04.040 and creators and everything
00:16:05.260 every single year
00:16:05.860 just as they always had
00:16:06.740 even though the whole thing's
00:16:07.880 a bit hollow
00:16:08.320 and kind of pointless
00:16:09.160 they still did it
00:16:10.300 and he was supposed to appear
00:16:12.040 before the senate
00:16:12.720 where they could
00:16:13.320 you know keep honors on him and proclaim him again as their emperor and just kiss his feet 0.91
00:16:20.700 and suck up to him massively he didn't even stick around for that he didn't even bother
00:16:25.740 to go through that it meant nothing to him it meant nothing the importance of rome itself the 0.55
00:16:33.380 city of rome had massively massively declined gibbon goes on saying the dislike expressed by
00:16:40.260 Diocletian towards Rome and Roman freedom was not the effect of momentary caprice but the result
00:16:47.220 of the most artful policy. That crafty prince, Diocletian, had framed a new system of imperial
00:16:53.580 government which was afterwards completed by the family of Constantine and as the image of the old
00:16:59.600 constitution was religiously preserved in the senate he resolved to deprive that order of its
00:17:05.260 small remains of power and consideration. Here we're talking about, do you remember in the first
00:17:10.240 episode I talked about the Principate, Augustus's Principate, and Diocletian's Dominate. Diocletian
00:17:15.980 changes the game, where, if you remember, I said that the Roman Emperor's word became absolute law.
00:17:23.560 He didn't even have to pretend remotely to get anything rubber-stamped by the Senate. Well,
00:17:27.840 this is what's going on here. Gibbon continued saying, we may recollect about eight years before
00:17:33.100 the elevation of Diocletian, the transient greatness and the ambitious hopes of the Roman
00:17:38.240 Senate. As long as that enthusiasm prevailed, many of the nobles in Rome imprudently displayed their
00:17:45.280 zeal in the calls of freedom. There may have been rumblings that they wanted a republic back.
00:17:50.580 And after the successors of Probus, a previous emperor, had withdrawn their countenance from
00:17:55.660 the Republican Party, the senators were unable to disguise their impotent resentment. As the
00:18:02.220 sovereign of Italy Maximian was entrusted with the care of extinguishing this troublesome rather
00:18:08.340 than dangerous spirit of republicanism among noble men in Rome and the task was perfectly suited
00:18:15.660 to his cruel temper. Remember Maximian is a soldier soldier anyone or anything gets in his
00:18:23.400 way he'll cut it down simple as no second thoughts that's who Maximian is. Diocletian gives him a job
00:18:29.680 to do whatever it is however bloody it might be and he will just go and do it given says the most
00:18:35.940 illustrious members of the senate whom diocletian always affected to esteem were involved by his
00:18:41.800 colleague in the accusation of imaginary plots and the possession of an elegant villa or a well
00:18:49.040 cultivated estate was interpreted as a convincing evidence of guilt we've seen this before haven't
00:18:54.760 We in Roman history, as far back as Sulla and Marius, let alone all through the early
00:19:01.740 Judeo-Claudian emperors, that if you're too powerful, too rich, even remotely, you're
00:19:09.340 a problem. The state, the imperial throne sees you as a problem. Again, 300 years more
00:19:15.540 before this, 400 years, the enemies of Sulla would say things like, I've been murdered
00:19:20.780 murdered by my alban estate i just had a bit of money and power and influence just a little bit
00:19:27.020 and that was enough to have you all your property stolen and you murdered maybe your whole family 0.93
00:19:31.320 that's playing out again here diocletian wants absolute power completely unfettered we hope you
00:19:38.460 enjoyed that video and if you did please head over to lotusseaters.com for the full unabridged video
00:19:50.780 Thank you.