The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - September 02, 2024


Queer History: Part I | Harry Hay and the Beginnings of American Gay Rights


Episode Stats

Length

18 minutes

Words per Minute

149.34677

Word Count

2,835

Sentence Count

115

Hate Speech Sentences

23


Summary

Harry Hay was the co-founder of the first major American gay rights organisation, the Mattachine Society, and one of the most influential gay activists of the 20th century. But was he also a closeted homophobe? And was he a member of the secret society known as The Orientist Order?


Transcript

00:00:00.280 You've been sold a particular story about the gay rights movement.
00:00:03.880 The abridged version goes something like this.
00:00:06.640 Gay and queer people were oppressed by a legal system that forced repressive Christian sexual
00:00:12.320 standards on society and persecuted them unfairly for simply loving the men and women they loved.
00:00:19.280 Somewhere in the 1960s a movement emerged from the sexual revolution galvanised by the
00:00:24.160 famous Stonewall Riots and gay rights was born.
00:00:28.800 It overcame resistance in the 1970s and persevered through the disaster of AIDS in the 1980s
00:00:34.840 before finally achieving public acceptance sometime in the 1990s.
00:00:40.060 In the mid-2010s homosexuals declared a triumphant victory when the US and the UK legalised gay
00:00:47.120 marriage.
00:00:48.120 All that was left to do now was spread the virtue of tolerance throughout the entire world.
00:00:54.640 Tragically gay rights has now gone too far.
00:00:57.680 I mean, it was all well and good when they just wanted to love one another and get married
00:01:01.680 legally.
00:01:03.020 But now, now it's targeting children.
00:01:06.280 And it's been co-opted by the trans movement.
00:01:08.700 And now we're beyond the pale.
00:01:10.940 Where are the days of respectable gay rights heroes like Harvey Milk and Larry Kramer?
00:01:17.060 The solution requires that we return to a sensible, even conservative dare I say, moment in the
00:01:24.240 gay rights movement that resembles something like the 90s but with gay marriage still intact.
00:01:30.660 This story is honestly compelling.
00:01:32.960 It works off the archetypal narrative that fits all of the civil rights movements of the 20th
00:01:38.400 century.
00:01:39.660 If you know it, you recognise the formula straight away because you have been conditioned to respond
00:01:46.040 positively to it, conditioned even from birth.
00:01:49.680 It's the story of civil rights and desegregation in the 1960s, of women's liberation, of sexual
00:01:55.400 revolution, of secularisation, of decolonisation, of the creation of the welfare state and of democracy
00:02:02.800 spreading across the world.
00:02:05.380 It's the story of the oppressed and repressed masses rising up against their immoral rulers
00:02:12.400 and demanding their right to equality and equity.
00:02:16.740 Questioning this narrative and all of its implicit assumptions amounts to heresy.
00:02:22.520 There is no going back.
00:02:24.600 We can only ever move forwards on the road to capital P progress.
00:02:29.920 But doesn't it all seem a bit too neat?
00:02:32.700 How well does all of this hold up to real history?
00:02:36.200 Is the history of gay rights really as cut and dry as it seems?
00:02:39.720 Was it really a noble movement led by otherwise normal people fighting for their rights?
00:02:45.660 Or has it always been a vehicle for queer in culture, led by shady men and aided by the
00:02:51.400 state and mass media?
00:02:53.400 These are the questions that I intend to answer in this short series that are taking a deep
00:02:57.400 dive into the figureheads of the movement.
00:02:59.780 I'll be mainly focusing on the primary figures and events that took place in the US going
00:03:05.380 back to the 1950s.
00:03:06.800 But hopefully it'll give you a good overview of how we got to where we are now.
00:03:10.800 To kick off this series we'll be looking at Harry Hay.
00:03:14.020 You may not have heard of Harry Hay, but he is vitally important to the real history of
00:03:19.160 gay rights.
00:03:20.440 Once you get to know him a bit better, you'll understand why he was swept under the rug.
00:03:25.780 First of all, his most important work was prior to Stonewall, and modern historiography sometimes
00:03:30.460 brushes over this period in the aid of telling a simplified narrative.
00:03:35.380 And Hay has been dubbed the founder of gay liberation.
00:03:39.200 So skipping over his legacy seems a bit strange, doesn't it?
00:03:43.480 And in a way, the whole gay rights movement, as you'll come to see from its aims to its
00:03:48.720 methods, is his legacy.
00:03:53.200 Hay was the co-founder of the first major American gay rights organisation, the Mattachine Society.
00:03:59.380 Now, the Mattachine Society was not the first gay rights activist organisation within the
00:04:05.200 US.
00:04:06.200 Its precursor was the Society for Human Rights, a Chicago-based group that existed very briefly
00:04:12.780 in the 1920s, that was formed by Henry Gerber.
00:04:16.420 Gerber himself was inspired by the work of Magnus Hirschfeld, who he became aware of through
00:04:21.460 his time stationed in Germany with the US Army.
00:04:25.720 Despite only lasting from 1924 to 1925, well, less than a full year all told, its impact
00:04:32.480 is still felt through the influence it had on Harry Hayes.
00:04:37.040 In 1929, 17-year-old Harry Haye was living in Los Angeles and partaking in the Pershing
00:04:43.980 Square gay cruising scene.
00:04:46.980 You don't want to ask.
00:04:48.580 Where he met Champ Simmons, a former member of the Society for Human Rights.
00:04:54.200 This told Haye all about the Society and its tragic demise, and this inspired Haye going
00:05:00.020 forward.
00:05:01.240 This idea of gay rights or homophile groups, as they were then known, lay dormant in Haye's
00:05:07.420 mind until 1950, when he formed the Mattachine Society alongside the fashion designer Rudi Gernreich.
00:05:15.300 In the meantime, Haye had lived an eventful life, serving as an organist for Alistair Crowley's
00:05:22.560 Order of the Temple Orientis in 1935 and joining the Communist Party USA in 1934 after being
00:05:29.800 converted to the cause by the actor Will Greer, who was one of Haye's many, many gay lovers.
00:05:38.280 Through his time in the party, he became pretty well connected.
00:05:42.000 He taught at the party headquarters in Los Angeles alongside notable figures such as John Howard
00:05:47.140 Lawson, head of the Hollywood Ten, a group of communist writers who were blacklisted in
00:05:52.060 the 1950s.
00:05:54.060 Interesting how that happens, isn't it?
00:05:58.060 Even for what was, at the time, a very radical group, Haye was the radical among the Mattachine
00:06:04.220 society.
00:06:05.220 Owing from his time within the Communist Party, which he left in 1951, Haye was adept at rhetorical
00:06:12.920 tricks and political organising.
00:06:15.620 Unlike many other members of the society who sought a form of assimilation, Haye held categorically
00:06:23.060 that homosexuals were not like heterosexuals and should not seek acceptance or assimilation
00:06:30.660 within heterosexual society and all of its heteronormative characteristics.
00:06:37.260 They, to Haye, were an oppressed minority.
00:06:41.780 Now this probably sounds familiar to you.
00:06:44.440 The argument that an abstract pressure to assimilate or conform into heteronormative society causes
00:06:52.160 psychic harm to sexual minorities is a favourite of the modern left.
00:06:57.080 In fact, an unfair pressure to conform to society has always been a mainstay of leftist myth-making,
00:07:04.200 and a well-worn excuse on top of it for any violence committed in the name of leftist causes.
00:07:12.180 Haye's mythologising, therefore, fits neatly within this tradition.
00:07:16.540 Instead of assimilation which surely would have caused incalculable and inexcusable harm
00:07:22.720 to homosexuals somehow, he preached in a manifesto that homosexuals were spiritually different,
00:07:30.280 superior even, and that heterosexuals could learn a lot about how to better live their
00:07:35.900 lives from homosexuals.
00:07:38.780 You could consider this an early form of the modern idea of queering a society, wherein
00:07:44.800 normal people behave more like gays and adopt their lifestyle quirks.
00:07:49.200 Now, as far as I can tell, this seems to consist of constant hard partying, casual sex, and
00:07:57.520 behaving catty.
00:07:59.380 It's also straight from the communist agitator playbook.
00:08:02.980 Haye even accused more moderate members of the society who sought assimilation of being
00:08:08.400 conservatives.
00:08:11.200 Even gay rights activists can thank Haye for the hysterical verbal flourishes that he popularised
00:08:17.420 with all of this honestly quite overwrought rhetoric.
00:08:21.960 Now, the Mattachine Society had a magazine that they published in 1953, called One, which
00:08:29.000 the US Postal Service initially refused to deliver due to obscenity laws.
00:08:34.340 But after the ruling in the Supreme Court case Roth v United States, which redefined the test
00:08:39.900 for what constitutes obscenity, the magazine was able to be distributed.
00:08:45.280 Other outreach work the group did included featuring in a 1961 documentary produced in
00:08:50.460 San Francisco called The Rejected.
00:08:53.560 The Rejected is actually an interesting time capsule of civil rights activism in the 1960s,
00:08:59.160 especially the early 60s, as it pretends to be objective and not take any personal positions
00:09:04.620 despite clearly favouring the activists.
00:09:07.960 The documentary, for instance, relies heavily on the work of Alfred Kinsey and his reports
00:09:12.080 on sexuality which had been published in the late 1940s through to the 50s.
00:09:17.100 Kinsey himself is vital to understand the sexual revolution of the 60s, and so I might revisit
00:09:23.400 him at some later date.
00:09:25.680 But for now, it's enough to look over some of the stats and figures that are cited and
00:09:30.320 rejected that come straight from Kinsey.
00:09:32.920 Among the frankly absurd claims made throughout this documentary are that at least 37% of American
00:09:39.180 males had some kind of orgasmic sexual contact following adolescence with another male, that
00:09:47.080 18% of men are more homosexual than heterosexual, and that at least half of all married men have
00:09:54.020 committed adultery.
00:09:56.120 Kinsey himself had once testified to an American committee that 46% of the United States population
00:10:02.720 had had a homosexual experience at least once in their lifetimes.
00:10:09.340 What's interesting to consider when we look at these figures and how they were popularised
00:10:14.380 is that the seeds for homosexual liberties were being planted all the way back in the late
00:10:19.440 1940s through Alfred Kinsey's work, which was immediately picked up by the media and promoted
00:10:24.800 as revolutionary.
00:10:26.960 His books even became bestsellers.
00:10:30.160 This is despite the sensational and often controversial nature of Kinsey's work which
00:10:34.800 has since been utterly, utterly discredited.
00:10:38.920 Consider as well that his research was largely funded through grants received from the Rockefeller
00:10:43.860 Foundation, so it had secure institutional backing, which suggests, to me at least, that in some
00:10:51.320 way there were moneyed actors behind the scenes who had an interest in normalising what was
00:10:57.160 then considered deviant sexual behaviour.
00:10:59.960 I'll allow you to speculate in the comments below as to why they would have that interest
00:11:05.320 to begin with.
00:11:08.260 Kinsey's work is worth its own deep dive, as I've mentioned, but it should be clear through
00:11:11.960 his inflated numbers that the documentary was laying the groundwork to give viewers the
00:11:17.260 false impression of homosexuality being commonplace and therefore to help normalise it.
00:11:25.220 Which is ironic as it contradicts the anti-assimilationist and minoritarian rhetoric of Harry Hay, although
00:11:33.280 I would argue that this more moderate and patient approach has proven, over time, far more effective
00:11:39.920 and swaying public opinion.
00:11:42.100 The Mattachine Society's role in The Rejected is a short interview where they disavow any
00:11:46.080 association with queens, effeminate to homosexual men, and label them minorities within the homosexual
00:11:53.020 community, something that may in fact have been accurate at the time.
00:11:56.720 They state that the purpose of the society is to dispel harmful stereotypes and go out of
00:12:01.300 their way to emphasise the importance of laws protecting innocent young people.
00:12:06.180 Interestingly enough, on the subject, one of the men states that he believes that most
00:12:10.640 homosexuals wouldn't have ended up gay if they had had heterosexual experiences earlier
00:12:16.360 in their lives.
00:12:17.640 This is something that will come up again.
00:12:20.160 One of the relevant criticisms of contemporary law that they discuss is the threat of security
00:12:25.020 risks, homosexual men in important federal or state positions being blackmailed due to their
00:12:30.460 concealed sexuality.
00:12:32.620 Then and again, they emphasise the normalcy of gay men and their entitlement to the same
00:12:37.800 rights as everyone else.
00:12:39.080 Certainly, the men chosen to feature in the interview seem to represent the more conservative
00:12:44.500 arm of the group that Hay stood against.
00:12:47.780 It'll be no surprise to you, then, that Hay had been all but pushed out of the Mattachine
00:12:51.520 Society by 1954.
00:12:54.020 An avid supporter of sexual liberation, Hay claimed that he had slept with between two to three
00:13:00.120 men a day between 1932 and 1936, taking his overall headcount into what must be the thousands.
00:13:07.500 And he believed that this hedonism should be emphasised as an essential feature of homosexual
00:13:12.800 lifestyles.
00:13:14.040 So you can see how this would conflict with the information and disavowals of queens and
00:13:18.840 hedonism that was being portrayed by Mattachine in The Rejected.
00:13:24.200 After his ejection from Mattachine, Hay eventually formed another activist organisation called the
00:13:29.580 Radical Fairies in 1979, which emphasised the supposed spiritual aspects of homosexuality.
00:13:37.800 These has included being more in touch with nature and claimed that they represented the
00:13:42.560 true essence of what it means to be human.
00:13:45.960 As part of the Radical Fairies project, they promoted different gender categories, popularising
00:13:51.340 the two-spirit idea, which is now recognised by some sources as an official gender identity
00:13:59.040 that must be respected.
00:14:01.120 The Radical Fairies is one of the earliest examples of a group actively and openly seeking
00:14:06.840 to queer society through subverting cultural norms.
00:14:10.360 But all of this fails to touch on Harry Hay's most controversial belief.
00:14:15.500 The belief in the legitimacy of paedophilic relationships.
00:14:20.120 Hay claimed that his first gay sexual experience was when he was nine years old and that this
00:14:24.160 proved to be the most important experience of his young life that informed everything else
00:14:29.920 that he did.
00:14:31.040 Hay even went on to claim that he was acting as jailbait to his accuser and had wanted it.
00:14:37.360 Coming up his belief succinctly in a speech given at the 1983 Gay Academic Union Forum at
00:14:42.380 New York University, Hay stated that, quote, the relationship with an older man is precisely
00:14:49.500 what 13, 14 and 15 year old kids need more than anything else in the world, end quote,
00:14:56.700 and referenced his own sexual encounters with older men as a 14 year old boy in a positive
00:15:02.360 light.
00:15:04.080 His uncompromising stance on the subject led to him being somewhat of a pariah in the movement
00:15:09.580 as it advanced through the 70s and 80s, mainly because the more moderately minded knew that
00:15:16.260 a full on support of paedophilic relationships was, let's say, not a popular position to assume,
00:15:23.780 and wasn't going to win any mainstream backing.
00:15:27.740 Founded in 1978 by the activist and journalist David Thorstad, the North American Man-Boy
00:15:33.240 Love Association, otherwise known as Nambler, is a group that lives in infamy.
00:15:38.920 Nambler is now widely condemned as a paedophile rights organisation and support for it can destroy
00:15:44.660 your reputation, and rightfully so.
00:15:47.920 What many don't know is that David Thorstad, who founded the organisation, was also a former
00:15:53.840 president of the New York Gay Activist Alliance and a key activist in the early post-Stone
00:15:58.920 War movement, as well as, imagine my shock here, a member of the Socialist Workers' Party
00:16:05.420 and a writer for the Trotskyist paper, The Militant.
00:16:09.340 Nambler was even the first US-based member of the International Lesbian and Gay Association,
00:16:16.540 alongside other paedophile groups.
00:16:19.000 The ILGA actually had a consultant role with the UN, but the UN became critical of the inclusion
00:16:25.800 of paedophile rights groups in 1994 and duly dropped them.
00:16:30.380 You'd think it would have been a bit sooner that they thought that was a problem, but oh well,
00:16:34.500 better late than never.
00:16:36.180 This was around the time when any association with paedophile rights was being publicly expunged
00:16:41.100 from the movement due to all of the bad press that it garnered.
00:16:44.600 Now, you may be thinking, that's all well and good, but what does Nambler have to do
00:16:48.720 with the paedophile rights activist Harry Hay?
00:16:51.640 Well, Harry Hay was a fervent supporter of Nambler ever since its inception and never compromised
00:16:57.880 on this position.
00:16:59.600 While he was never a member himself, he did give numerous speeches at meetings the group
00:17:03.580 held and wore a sign saying, Nambler walks with me, at a 1986 Los Angeles gay rights rally
00:17:10.000 after controversy surrounding the group's inclusion at the event.
00:17:13.640 So you can see that at least there was always a very divisive element to the inclusion of
00:17:19.260 Nambler and other groups, although not enough.
00:17:23.340 Despite how discredited they became in the 1990s, particularly following the release of documentaries
00:17:27.940 like Chicken Hawk Men Who Love Boys, Hay maintained his support of Nambler, and everything it
00:17:34.500 fought for all the way up until his death in 2002.
00:17:39.800 So this look at Harry Hay isn't the whole story.
00:17:43.320 In fact, it's just the tip of the iceberg.
00:17:45.360 I'll be examining the other essential figures and events that formed the gay rights movement
00:17:49.940 as this series progresses.
00:17:52.200 But bear in mind that the person that many publications, even those as mainstream as the
00:17:57.320 New York Times in their 2002 obituary for Harry Hay, celebrate as the father of gay liberation,
00:18:05.840 was an unapologetic paedophile and fought fiercely for the right of grown men to abuse children.
00:18:13.220 His paedophilic inclinations and communist agitation tactics have left an undeniable mark on the
00:18:19.220 movement, even as it exists today.
00:18:22.700 While there are and were many moderate voices campaigning on behalf of homosexuals, ones
00:18:27.720 who disagree vehemently with the values that Hay stood for, the extremist activists embedded
00:18:34.180 in academia and the media share the spirit, values and goals of Harry Hay.
00:18:42.660 Thank you for watching, I hope you found it informative, I look forward to seeing you
00:18:47.580 in part 2 where I should be looking at what actually happened at the Stonewall riots.
00:18:52.960 Take care, I'll see you then.
00:18:55.540 To watch the full video, please become a premium member at LotusEaters.com