The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - Restore Britain

00:00:00.060 Hi folks, I once again have the pleasure of being joined by Rupert Lowe MP and we are going to be talking about his Restore Britain movement and anything else that comes up in the conversation that's pertinent.

00:00:09.460 I'm sure there'll be a lot, Carl.

00:00:10.860 No doubt. So, do you want to tell everyone how Restore Britain's going at the moment?

00:00:15.500 Yup, we launched it just over a week ago and it's going better than we could have hoped.

00:00:21.040 People are signing up to both classes of membership, so they're signing up to the Norman membership and they're signing up to the Cromwell Club.

00:00:28.440 We've had a great response to the Cromwell Club as well, which, as you know, is named after my dog.

00:00:33.060 Oh, that's good to know.

00:00:34.060 Who caused some controversy recently, so we thought it was a very apt name.

00:00:41.000 So, those people who are members of the Cromwell Club will get to have dinner with me once a year, lucky people.

00:00:48.260 Oh, yes.

00:00:49.900 So, it's going very well.

00:00:51.140 Well, I think, as you know, the situation with Restore Britain is I decided I didn't think a party was the right route to take for the simple reason that I think a party creates further division.

00:01:05.840 And I think what we now need, those of us who want our country back, what we want is unity.

00:01:13.360 So, it doesn't matter what your politics are.

00:01:16.920 I think whether we agree with each other or not, we share a love of Britain because when it's working well, it's a fantastic place.

00:01:24.260 We all know it's dysfunctional now.

00:01:26.020 We all know it's been taken over by all sorts of malign forces.

00:01:30.760 We can feel it every day slipping through our fingers.

00:01:33.120 So, I wanted to unite everybody, and I'm surprised that we haven't had a rush of 17.4 million people who voted to take their country back in 2016, despite the government advising them to do the opposite, for which they are being punished by a very sort of malevolent European Union.

00:01:54.200 It would have been very easy to respect the democratic vote of the British people, to continue to trade with us freely, to make it easy to respect that decision.

00:02:04.220 But no, their club is a post-war socialist malign club that basically has to keep their members hemmed in, rather like communism had to put a wall up.

00:02:17.500 Because I think a lot of people will break out the sides in the end.

00:02:22.020 I'm sure it'll happen in our lifetimes.

00:02:23.540 I'm not quite sure why.

00:02:24.420 You can already see it kind of fracturing.

00:02:26.320 You can sort of feel it happening.

00:02:27.680 Well, the Schengen zone is already basically falling apart.

00:02:30.400 France is bust.

00:02:31.780 I mean, it's all looking very fragile.

00:02:34.320 So I think my reason for setting up Restore Britain is that I want to unify, and I want to unify those people who know we're losing our country, who care deeply about the country.

00:02:51.620 And it's the only way I could see of, number one, achieving that at the next election.

00:02:57.140 But most importantly, before that, if we get enough members, we can start to influence the way in which the country goes, because it's going badly wrong every day.

00:03:05.740 And we've had some very bad economic figures out this morning, you know, with the recipe of higher taxes, more state intervention, higher wages and higher pensions for public sector workers.

00:03:20.520 Trust me, that is not a recipe for a growing economy.

00:03:23.320 Somehow, we still haven't learned the lesson you can't tax people into prosperity.

00:03:27.140 No, you can't.

00:03:28.780 You can't.

00:03:29.440 Let me ask you a question then.

00:03:31.760 It's like you can't regulate for growth, which Rachel Reeves seems to think you can.

00:03:35.760 You deregulate for growth.

00:03:37.520 You cannot regulate for growth.

00:03:39.320 And these are well-tested economic questions as well.

00:03:43.160 It's not like the numbers aren't in on either side of your question.

00:03:47.400 But let me ask you, because a lot of people, I think, are very fond of the idea of what you're doing for Restore Britain.

00:03:55.220 Obviously, I am, which is why you're here promoting it with me.

00:03:58.740 But I think that there is the question of, I agree with your premise that if we don't get a handle on this by 2029, we, I mean, I don't think the country's finished, but it's just going to be so much more difficult to restore.

00:04:11.640 There are many good things about Britain.

00:04:13.080 I think we shouldn't be too negative.

00:04:15.100 No, no, I agree.

00:04:15.780 I agree.

00:04:16.240 The bedrock of Britain is great still.

00:04:18.480 Yes.

00:04:18.900 But it's about when you're sliding down the slippery slope.

00:04:23.780 The sooner you arrest that descent, the better, right?

00:04:27.080 And 2029, I think you've actually said, it's kind of been our last opportunity to properly turn the ship around.

00:04:33.980 It may not be.

00:04:34.580 It may be before 29.

00:04:35.840 Well, yeah.

00:04:36.260 Because I always say, ultimately, democracy is fragile.

00:04:39.980 We know that.

00:04:40.580 Democracy is not the norm.

00:04:42.360 Autocracy is the norm.

00:04:44.080 And if your economy goes wrong, democracy is always under threat.

00:04:48.340 So I think we're going to see the economy go badly wrong.

00:04:50.960 I think the chalk jockeys, as I call them, who are in charge of our front bench, haven't got a clue what they're doing.

00:04:59.300 So they're going to stumble around.

00:05:01.120 And in the end, they're going to cause huge amounts of damage.

00:05:03.740 As my grandfather always said, more damage is done by well-meaning idiots than people who are out and out bad.

00:05:09.520 And that's what's going on on the front bench.

00:05:12.500 So I actually think if the economy turns down, the election could come a lot sooner than people think.

00:05:18.460 I agree.

00:05:19.220 Which is why there's urgency to what we're doing.

00:05:21.260 We need to get this unified view.

00:05:25.320 And again, let me just give people an example.

00:05:27.080 So in Parliament, I sit up with Jeremy Corbyn and the Muslim independent MPs.

00:05:32.580 And we all get along famously.

00:05:33.760 In fact, the speaker, he said, I see you lot making a hell of a lot of noise.

00:05:38.760 And you probably saw Mohammed Iqbal giving Nigel a bit of the old A.B. joyful prime minister's questions, getting a bit overexcited about it.

00:05:47.180 And he did apologize to his credit.

00:05:49.120 But look, we don't agree.

00:05:51.200 But we are Democrats, I think.

00:05:53.280 And we want to have a country in which you respect other people's views, but you can disagree with them.

00:05:59.860 Yes.

00:06:00.200 And I disagree vehemently with Jeremy Corbyn's views.

00:06:02.900 But I'd rather debate with Jeremy Corbyn than I would with Keir Starmer.

00:06:07.280 Because I don't think Keir Starmer knows good from bad, black from white.

00:06:11.780 I don't think he's a Democrat.

00:06:12.540 I don't think he's got a clue what is right and what is wrong.

00:06:16.780 I think Keir Starmer views democracy as the problem, frankly, to the managerial order.

00:06:21.800 But the issue...

00:06:22.600 Well, he's a Fabian.

00:06:23.800 It's all about the Fabian agenda.

00:06:26.480 He absolutely is.

00:06:27.840 Look up the logo of the Fabian Society, by the way.

00:06:30.200 Wolf in sheep's clothing.

00:06:31.080 Yeah, you spoiled it.

00:06:32.480 But yeah, it's crazy how that was actually their logo until something like 30 years ago.

00:06:36.680 Because they were like, hang on, does this make us look bad?

00:06:38.320 But the question is that people have been putting to me, and I don't have a good answer for this,

00:06:44.340 is, okay, well, we agree that we need to do something by 2029.

00:06:49.600 An election rolls around and we're on board with the Restore Britain mission.

00:06:54.140 How exactly does Restore Britain take power?

00:06:56.520 Well, I think if we get the movement to be as big as I would like it to be,

00:07:02.760 and I think there is an urgency, and I do hope people will sign up.

00:07:05.380 Can you give me another?

00:07:07.380 Well, I mean, we need to go well through 100,000 and head up towards a million.

00:07:12.060 As I say, 17.4 million people have not had Brexit,

00:07:15.280 so they ought to be sufficiently irritated to spend, as I call it,

00:07:19.080 the amount of two pints in the wrong pub.

00:07:23.680 You can spend a ten on a pint in London now quite easily.

00:07:27.520 You know, as I say, my country, my responsibility, or our country, our responsibility.

00:07:32.420 And if we want it back, we've got to get together.

00:07:34.320 Because what's happened is a little elite has taken over,

00:07:39.180 and it's not operating in the interests of the British people.

00:07:42.380 I think the state has become the enemy.

00:07:44.440 And that doesn't matter whether, you know, what part of the state it is.

00:07:47.660 The state is serving itself.

00:07:48.980 It's not serving the people.

00:07:50.520 So for the people to take it back, we need a big movement.

00:07:52.980 I don't have a number as big as possible.

00:07:56.040 So you say you can't quite see where it's going to go.

00:07:59.480 I don't think we know exactly where it's going to go.

00:08:01.520 But what I do know is with a movement, all the options are open.

00:08:04.700 Right.

00:08:04.860 So we could do a reverse takeover of the Tory party.

00:08:09.160 We could do a reverse takeover of a form.

00:08:11.440 We might set up our own party, but that's a huge undertaking.

00:08:14.960 Or if we see a development which effectively gives us comfort that we're going to,

00:08:22.640 we found a solution to how we're going to better govern the country,

00:08:25.800 we could align ourselves with those people.

00:08:28.060 So I think the most important thing in a country which has been run on a poll every week,

00:08:36.280 so a poll, you know, Tony Blair started this polling, which I don't agree with,

00:08:41.500 because I like to run the country on principle, not on a poll.

00:08:44.980 And, you know, if you subscribe to the book, the Mackay book about the popular delusions

00:08:51.800 and the madness of crowds, the crowd is always wrong.

00:08:55.280 And as he said, you know, people slowly get back their sense one by one,

00:09:01.360 but it doesn't happen as a collective.

00:09:03.380 And you see that on the football terraces and everything else.

00:09:06.380 But, you know, I could argue that point, because there are studies that show actually

00:09:10.960 crowds have a kind of innate sort of self-calibrating mechanism.

00:09:16.600 When people perceive a lot of people are going that way,

00:09:18.840 they'll tend to go the other way just to balance things out.

00:09:21.800 Football crowds have a great sense of humour. I like that.

00:09:23.800 Their collective sense of humour is very good.

00:09:25.920 But anyway, so I think, I think for me, that's where I think,

00:09:32.360 and the bigger we get, the more influence we have,

00:09:34.460 and not just at the election, we'll start to have influence now.

00:09:37.300 Like we had a petition on the Lucy, the ridiculous Lucy Connolly sentence.

00:09:43.260 And we got to 100,000 very quickly.

00:09:45.120 We've now got a debate in Westminster Hall.

00:09:46.940 I don't think that we've got a scheduled date yet,

00:09:49.000 but we've been notified it's going to happen.

00:09:51.100 In the same way, we had a debate on how I'll meet.

00:09:53.940 So if we've got over 100,000 members, we can arguably,

00:09:57.200 with our direct democracy app, and I'm intent on trying to involve our followers,

00:10:03.260 you know, more directly in the policy that we come out with.

00:10:06.040 And the policies that we're coming out with at the moment are putative policies,

00:10:09.520 which we've trailed on X a lot, and we're now just formalising them.

00:10:15.480 And then once we've got our direct democracy app,

00:10:18.160 I would like people to play a part in, you know, what policies we push forward,

00:10:24.000 what private prosecutions we pursue, what judicial reviews we might consider.

00:10:29.820 So I think as a movement, then, we start to get power.

00:10:34.180 And as you know, our elite are tarts.

00:10:38.240 They basically respond to votes.

00:10:42.400 And the more of us there are who are putting common sense forward,

00:10:46.720 the more they can't ignore those people.

00:10:50.140 Whereas at the moment, I think the individual,

00:10:53.040 they've oppressed us by basically making us work harder and harder,

00:10:56.560 fill in more and more forms, you know, whether that's, you know,

00:11:00.740 to collect pensions and gift wrap it to the state,

00:11:03.400 whether it's to collect national insurance and gift wrap it to the state,

00:11:06.100 whether it's to collect VAT and gift wrap it to the state,

00:11:08.780 whether it's to deal with health and safety regulations, whatever.

00:11:13.040 They have effectively burdened people with all this,

00:11:16.400 and they've turned them into slaves.

00:11:18.820 And if you read The Road to Serfdom by Hayek,

00:11:21.920 which I'm sure we both have, you can see it's all there.

00:11:26.180 Or if you read Ayn Rand, read Atlas Shrugged, it's all in there.

00:11:30.260 So I think we, the bedrock of common sense and decency,

00:11:36.840 we need to gather together now and we need to fight these forces.

00:11:39.880 And I, look, I respect the fact if people are happy

00:11:43.680 with the way their lives are at the moment

00:11:45.760 and they think their country's in rude health, fine.

00:11:49.180 I'll go back and start drinking some even better red wine

00:11:53.120 by my swimming pool, you know, after the next election.

00:11:56.760 It may not even be in this country,

00:11:58.560 because I actually can't see that this country

00:12:01.880 will be a good place to live.

00:12:03.280 I think it's got all the hallmarks of a country

00:12:07.760 which basically had probably the greatest empire in the world

00:12:11.740 during the Victorian period.

00:12:14.420 But you often find that empires can go very badly wrong.

00:12:18.940 It's usually not when they hand over power,

00:12:21.020 which we did to the Americans.

00:12:22.940 It's usually the second time that power changes.

00:12:25.960 And we're close to that.

00:12:27.400 So we're close to the power, I think, changing from the US.

00:12:31.520 You can see the hallmarks again of US power,

00:12:33.920 which was completely omnipotent.

00:12:36.000 It's now beginning to crack.

00:12:37.540 And you've got, the question now is,

00:12:39.840 who takes over from the US?

00:12:41.620 Can it be China with its sort of, what I call faux capitalist society?

00:12:47.460 It's a sort of blend of authoritarianism and capitalism.

00:12:51.920 China is actually resembling fascism.

00:12:54.220 So could it be China?

00:12:55.380 Could it be, I don't know, India?

00:12:57.100 Could it be, it's going to be somebody is going to assume that role.

00:13:02.140 And it's going to be a huge change.

00:13:03.680 Now, very often the empire, not the one who, it's two goes a go.

00:13:08.120 So it could be us.

00:13:09.560 They implode.

00:13:10.400 So we may implode.

00:13:11.460 We may go rotten.

00:13:12.920 That's why I want to get this movement together,

00:13:15.400 because I still think there are some great people out there.

00:13:17.160 And what we need to do is unite.

00:13:19.120 I agree.

00:13:19.920 But I think people would understandably be more reassured

00:13:29.140 if they knew what the concrete plan was.

00:13:32.420 Now, I'm personally quite happy to muddle through.

00:13:35.160 I've never really had a plan.

00:13:36.480 And I've always just got on with things, and here we are.

00:13:39.800 So I actually understand the...

00:13:42.000 Well, if you want a concrete plan, Carl, start a party.

00:13:44.660 Then you have to have a concrete plan.

00:13:46.340 We're a movement.

00:13:47.340 So I think what we want to do is start involving people,

00:13:51.540 get them to feel what it's like to have a sort of movement

00:13:57.540 which consults and considers them,

00:14:00.320 not a state which basically goes off plowing its own furrow

00:14:03.680 and enriching itself at the cost, at the expense of the people.

00:14:06.740 Okay.

00:14:07.280 So I think we've got...

00:14:09.200 I thought that's the only way I could see we can create unity.

00:14:12.380 And that's the purpose of this, the lightning rod, if you like,

00:14:16.900 for those people who are concerned about their country.

00:14:19.680 Now, they may not respond, and if they don't,

00:14:22.660 it'll fizzle out and come to nothing.

00:14:25.060 But the more people we have is the most important thing.

00:14:28.640 The more financial ammunition we have,

00:14:30.780 and as I've said to you,

00:14:31.500 I've spent quite a lot of my own money to get to where we are.

00:14:34.140 I think we've now got a chance of changing things,

00:14:36.640 and the most important development was probably getting into Parliament.

00:14:40.680 The bridgehead that reform created,

00:14:43.460 and I played my part in that,

00:14:44.960 I think was incredibly significant to retaining our democracy.

00:14:51.100 So let's talk about some of the policies

00:14:53.780 that Restore Britain have been advertising on Twitter,

00:14:56.500 because I have to say, I'm in.

00:14:59.940 We haven't been advertising.

00:15:01.100 We've been feeding them in for consideration.

00:15:04.740 So they're like putative policies.

00:15:06.160 Yeah, I mean...

00:15:07.220 But they're nothing I haven't put on X before.

00:15:08.960 Of course, but it's nice to formalise them, right?

00:15:11.660 So, for example, most...

00:15:15.160 In fact, I can't think of a single party

00:15:16.480 that wants a net negative immigration policy in the country,

00:15:19.800 because, of course, the country is wildly overpopulated,

00:15:22.920 as you found travelling here this morning.

00:15:26.020 There's just too many people...

00:15:26.620 Swindon is not necessarily a particularly good example of that.

00:15:29.400 It's very crowded, isn't it?

00:15:30.400 It's incredibly crowded.

00:15:31.940 And the traffic system is not great either.

00:15:33.800 Well, it was fine 10 years ago, you know,

00:15:36.800 but we've had something like 30,000 or 40,000 new people live here now.

00:15:40.960 And so we are just feeling just, you know,

00:15:43.140 like we're in a pressure cooker.

00:15:44.960 But this is a problem that most of the country is experiencing.

00:15:48.400 There's just too many people here.

00:15:49.980 And so really...

00:15:50.860 And if the answer to any of the problems we had was more people,

00:15:54.640 well, we've had 15 million new people come into the country.

00:15:57.360 Are we suddenly finding ourselves with a dearth of problems?

00:16:00.100 Look, I don't know what you think,

00:16:02.360 but I haven't seen the detail of this one-in, one-out deal with,

00:16:06.460 you know, between Keir Starmer and Macron,

00:16:08.620 but it looks to me like the French as usual have come out on top.

00:16:11.480 Well, yes, Keir Starmer is the worst deal made in the history.

00:16:13.300 It seems like the worst deal I've ever seen on the face of it,

00:16:16.040 but I don't think the detail has yet been released.

00:16:17.580 Well, you say that, but the Chagos Islands deal was worse.

00:16:19.740 Or the Gibraltar deal was worse.

00:16:22.060 Let's give away what we've already got and then pay to rent it back.

00:16:24.740 I mean, most people in commerce would just know that's completely and utter insanity.

00:16:31.140 I would never say a deal like that.

00:16:32.460 But the point being, the net negative immigration is far stronger

00:16:36.560 than anything else on the right at all.

00:16:40.240 Like the Conservative Party is very mealy-mouthed about this,

00:16:42.660 and the Reform Party wants a net zero immigration policy,

00:16:46.260 so one-in, one-out, again, like with Keir Starmer's deal.

00:16:49.060 But that leaves us in exactly the same position we are now,

00:16:51.560 which is a problem.

00:16:52.640 We need fewer people in the country.

00:16:53.940 What we need, I think, Carl, is fewer people in the country.

00:16:57.860 We need more people integrating.

00:16:59.460 So if people come here, they must integrate.

00:17:01.260 They must accept our culture.

00:17:03.100 So we will be, and I think our supporters will be quite clear on this.

00:17:08.020 So I don't think intellectually I'm against immigration.

00:17:11.080 Targeted immigration for high-skilled people

00:17:13.700 who are going to add to our economy, that's what we need.

00:17:16.240 What we don't need is people who are going to come here,

00:17:19.720 and the stats prove this,

00:17:21.520 and become a burden on the British taxpayer.

00:17:23.940 And not integrate in our society,

00:17:26.280 and start to agitate for their own Shreya courts,

00:17:30.280 or whatever other courts it is.

00:17:32.620 You know, I think, you know,

00:17:34.920 can you imagine us going to one of the countries in the Middle East

00:17:38.520 and starting to demand that we had our own courts,

00:17:41.320 and everything else?

00:17:41.660 They just tell us to get lost.

00:17:43.240 Well, this is a constant...

00:17:44.460 So no, we've become, I think we've become,

00:17:48.080 we may be victims of the fact

00:17:49.700 that we are, we have been historically a very high-trust society.

00:17:56.000 And the problem I think we've now got

00:17:58.000 is that with all the immigrants who've come in,

00:18:00.940 the, I'm not sure you can necessarily apply

00:18:03.840 that high-trust society to everybody who's come here,

00:18:07.100 because they don't quite understand the way in which it operates.

00:18:10.260 Well, I would suggest you can't do that, actually.

00:18:13.600 So I would, obviously, this...

00:18:16.480 The immigration has to stop.

00:18:17.980 And we have to, as I've always said,

00:18:19.920 we have to deport those people who are coming here illegally,

00:18:23.720 living here illegally.

00:18:25.880 We have to deport foreign criminals in our prisons straight away.

00:18:29.620 And we have to use all the tools that we can.

00:18:32.000 You know, this ridiculous foreign aid budget.

00:18:34.240 If people don't comply, then cut the foreign aid off.

00:18:36.880 I mean, when are we going to start to employ

00:18:39.320 a bit of Victorian rail politique,

00:18:41.660 which is what effectively made us so well-respected

00:18:44.860 throughout the world?

00:18:45.740 I am absolutely up for a return to gunboat diplomacy

00:18:48.740 when it comes to returning illegals.

00:18:51.580 You're taking them back, is what I would say.

00:18:53.520 Well, can you call yourself a sovereign nation

00:18:55.580 if you can't defend your own borders?

00:18:57.300 No, not at all.

00:18:57.840 And, you know, the Liberals, the Emily Maitlis of this world,

00:19:01.140 get very upset when I say we should put them

00:19:03.080 on either a Scottish or an English island off the coast

00:19:07.860 so that they come here, they go to a tented camp,

00:19:10.840 they get some food, they're not, you know, badly treated.

00:19:15.820 But when they decide they want to go home,

00:19:18.100 a bit like Australia, Australia's got the formula.

00:19:20.520 It's very easy.

00:19:21.160 You've got a narrow island.

00:19:22.240 Yeah, they did exactly.

00:19:23.100 They go there until they decide they want to go home.

00:19:25.560 And then that's fine, we'll help them go home.

00:19:27.740 But, and as I say, you know, the Scots get upset

00:19:31.460 when I say a Scottish island.

00:19:32.760 I only say that because the variety of midge in Scotland

00:19:34.980 is rather better than the one in England.

00:19:36.500 But also they have uninhabited islands.

00:19:38.740 Like, what are you complaining about?

00:19:40.200 There's no one living there.

00:19:41.400 They're uninhabited islands, but they're far enough away.

00:19:44.780 So trying to get to the mainland is treacherous.

00:19:49.460 Okay, so look, I, if you come here illegally,

00:19:52.660 I have this very interesting view,

00:19:56.240 which is as a result of what happened to me,

00:19:59.200 the sort of false accusations that were made against me.

00:20:02.380 And I've sort of learned quite a lot now about our law

00:20:06.160 and to actually support or help somebody

00:20:10.680 who's breaking the law is in itself illegal.

00:20:13.000 So I've got this very interesting concept

00:20:15.920 for people to consider,

00:20:17.020 which is Border Patrol are helping illegal migrants

00:20:22.480 or illegal economic migrants, as I call them,

00:20:26.580 to enter our country illegally.

00:20:28.760 Now, arguably, they are aiding and abetting somebody

00:20:31.140 who is perpetrating something illegal.

00:20:33.880 Therefore, they are breaking the law themselves.

00:20:36.380 Now, nobody's actually brought this up,

00:20:38.320 but that is effectively what's happening.

00:20:40.540 So our government is aiding and abetting people

00:20:45.340 who are breaking the law.

00:20:47.460 Now, equally, we know there are people living here illegally

00:20:50.980 and they're doing nothing about finding

00:20:54.600 and deporting those people,

00:20:56.340 who, by the way, find it very easy to get work,

00:20:59.300 who undermine the honest, decent, taxpaying citizens

00:21:02.360 because there are those people who are unscrupulous enough

00:21:05.500 to employ these people.

00:21:07.660 And I personally think there should be huge penalties

00:21:09.440 for companies who get caught employing illegal migrants

00:21:12.480 and paying them at less than the minimum wage.

00:21:14.660 It should be a massive fine.

00:21:16.180 It should be all sorts of, you know, censure

00:21:18.240 on being a director of a company and everything else.

00:21:21.740 We should be protecting those people

00:21:24.300 who are working honestly, collecting and paying their taxes,

00:21:28.240 and not allow them to be undermined

00:21:30.420 by this vast black economy which is growing up.

00:21:32.820 So the, I agree with all of that, obviously.

00:21:37.240 But I think a lot of people will notice

00:21:39.560 how you've moved to focusing on the illegal immigrants,

00:21:42.960 which are, of course, a problem.

00:21:44.660 But I think the, a greater problem

00:21:47.460 is the amount of legal immigration that was allowed

00:21:50.560 because just that people never wanted it.

00:21:53.880 They never voted it.

00:21:54.960 And every time they had the opportunity,

00:21:58.100 they voted for a party whose manifesto was,

00:22:00.260 we won't increase immigration.

00:22:02.300 Well, we were told constantly that immigration would be cut.

00:22:05.100 Yes, exactly.

00:22:05.900 But Boris probably, well, Cameron, Boris, May,

00:22:08.420 they all presided over legal immigration.

00:22:11.720 And legal immigration is more difficult.

00:22:14.020 And contrary to what Farage said,

00:22:15.980 I've never talked about repatriation.

00:22:17.960 Repatriation is a much more difficult subject.

00:22:19.840 The first thing is to deal with those people

00:22:22.680 who are here illegally.

00:22:23.940 Those people who arrive illegally

00:22:25.280 and those foreign criminals who've broken the law,

00:22:27.520 who are in our prisons, clogging up the prison system.

00:22:30.300 Thereafter, and you're probably seeing

00:22:31.900 what's happening in Sweden.

00:22:33.980 Sweden were probably the most liberal country.

00:22:37.360 They accepted a lot of migrants into the country legally.

00:22:44.780 And they've had the most terrible trouble as a result.

00:22:48.280 And now they are paying to repatriate those people

00:22:52.880 who have undermined their society

00:22:56.020 in terms of some of their cities are no longer safe.

00:23:00.180 They used to be incredibly safe.

00:23:01.780 And as you know, the Nordics are wonderful people.

00:23:04.620 They're, again, polite, very liberal, very decent people.

00:23:10.060 But I think even they now can see the damage,

00:23:12.940 the sort of irreparable damage in many respects,

00:23:17.360 which has happened.

00:23:18.140 I think cities like Malmo are almost sort of,

00:23:20.620 you know, almost you can't live there.

00:23:22.720 Well, it's the grenade capital of Europe.

00:23:24.760 Yeah.

00:23:25.820 So look, why don't we learn?

00:23:29.160 Why don't we learn?

00:23:30.480 This is what people would want to know,

00:23:31.680 because I think your framing is correct.

00:23:34.640 I mean, obviously, if, you know,

00:23:37.140 there's a handful of tech entrepreneurs

00:23:40.580 that we want to come and set up AI manufacturing

00:23:43.360 or whatever it is in London or something like that, fine.

00:23:46.780 But that's not been the British experience with immigration.

00:23:50.140 So if we were to reduce immigration

00:23:52.780 into targeted skill-based immigration,

00:23:56.020 then that's going to be tens of thousands a year.

00:24:00.740 Well, I don't know what you think, Carl,

00:24:02.320 but I sort of innately think with QE

00:24:06.660 and with the undermining and debasing

00:24:08.300 of what I call, you know, paper currencies,

00:24:11.100 which are not backed by anything,

00:24:13.140 and actually they're no good for anything,

00:24:15.100 they only exist if people trust in them.

00:24:18.420 Yeah.

00:24:18.800 People are losing trust in them,

00:24:20.520 and you're actually seeing, you know,

00:24:22.820 you're seeing cryptocurrencies

00:24:24.740 and, you know, other forms of barter and trade,

00:24:31.200 which are springing up alongside it.

00:24:33.520 Because I do think probably the central banking system

00:24:36.680 is fundamentally fraudulent.

00:24:39.120 And I think a lot of,

00:24:40.000 I don't know what they're doing.

00:24:41.020 It's a large...

00:24:41.800 You don't know what they're doing,

00:24:43.120 but a lot of what I see economically now

00:24:45.300 doesn't add up.

00:24:46.300 Oh, yeah.

00:24:46.820 So the point I'm coming to is,

00:24:48.380 isn't brain power going to ultimately be

00:24:51.560 the global currency?

00:24:53.900 And we can see it now.

00:24:55.540 So the last thing we want

00:24:56.800 is vast numbers of low-grade workers who,

00:25:01.440 because AI is going to take care of a lot of that.

00:25:04.600 What we need is a high-trust society

00:25:07.640 based on intellect,

00:25:10.300 based on, you know, a respect of the law,

00:25:13.800 based on integration.

00:25:15.240 And if you can find people

00:25:16.660 who want to come to live in the country,

00:25:19.620 who are going to bring this kind of enterprise,

00:25:23.640 and by the way, at the moment,

00:25:25.300 we're doing our very best

00:25:26.680 to put people off investing and taking risk.

00:25:31.300 Because, you know, I can tell you for a fact

00:25:33.480 that HMRC are pre-approving various EIS schemes.

00:25:39.500 People are then investing,

00:25:41.220 and having pre-approved it,

00:25:42.660 they're then residing on it.

00:25:43.740 So you can't trust the state now.

00:25:47.800 The state says all these wonderful things

00:25:50.460 about how it's going to foster enterprise,

00:25:52.360 but then it doesn't deliver it.

00:25:53.620 But just to...

00:25:54.520 Because it's a predator.

00:25:55.400 I mean, I completely...

00:25:56.580 It wants the money.

00:25:57.380 I completely agree.

00:25:58.780 And the Labour Party has shown

00:26:01.120 that whatever their plans were,

00:26:02.680 they're just not working,

00:26:03.540 and they're just ruining us.

00:26:04.920 But the...

00:26:05.420 And I agree with you that, yeah,

00:26:07.020 like, if there are particularly specialised people,

00:26:09.960 but that, I think, by definition,

00:26:11.780 will be a low number of people, right?

00:26:13.860 That would have to be...

00:26:14.580 Tiny.

00:26:15.120 Yeah.

00:26:15.800 And so the issue is that the conservative...

00:26:20.680 The last conservative successive governments

00:26:22.640 have decided to actually flood us

00:26:25.020 with low-skilled immigrants

00:26:26.380 or who...

00:26:27.720 People are just outright dependents on the state.

00:26:31.060 They've done this legally, though, right?

00:26:33.040 So these people here legally.

00:26:34.840 What ought we to do

00:26:36.980 to encourage these people to return home?

00:26:38.580 Well, first of all, deal with the illegals,

00:26:40.400 as we say, and the criminals.

00:26:41.460 And then we need to find some formula.

00:26:43.860 And again, I don't have the answer,

00:26:45.740 but Sweden are doing it.

00:26:47.920 It seems to be working in Sweden.

00:26:50.120 There are other countries who repatriate legally

00:26:52.880 and encourage people to go.

00:26:55.480 Well, I've got an idea on this.

00:26:56.860 I think we don't need to worry about repatriation.

00:26:59.660 All we need to do is just turn off the benefits, I think.

00:27:02.380 Well, the benefits have to stop.

00:27:03.820 Yes.

00:27:04.040 I mean, Macron, whilst, you know,

00:27:06.700 I, when asked about the French,

00:27:09.440 I mean, historically,

00:27:10.240 the French have been our enemy, usually.

00:27:11.920 And I think my view is that they probably still are.

00:27:15.980 Yes.

00:27:17.180 But, you know, Macron did come up

00:27:19.300 with some very sensible comments,

00:27:20.680 which is,

00:27:21.220 you are the architects of your own problems,

00:27:23.760 because...

00:27:24.580 You're giving them free money.

00:27:25.380 You're giving them too much when they...

00:27:27.140 It's too much of an...

00:27:28.260 I think you used the word El Dorado.

00:27:29.940 I think you said it's El Dorado for them.

00:27:31.780 But it absolutely is.

00:27:33.180 And when you see...

00:27:33.440 In a way, you can't blame them.

00:27:34.600 If you come and then,

00:27:36.680 when they find the streets are paved with gold,

00:27:39.040 they keep coming in bigger numbers.

00:27:41.260 And they put it on TikTok,

00:27:42.740 and then back at home,

00:27:44.040 they see, oh, they're giving them free money.

00:27:45.720 And so the view I have is that,

00:27:47.700 obviously,

00:27:48.380 if you were born outside of this country,

00:27:50.560 you should just not be entitled

00:27:51.660 to any benefits in the country.

00:27:53.560 I agree.

00:27:54.320 The benefits should be entirely

00:27:55.580 for British citizens born and bred.

00:27:57.740 And that doesn't seem controversial.

00:27:59.440 Or to people who,

00:28:00.920 after a predetermined period,

00:28:02.360 say 10 years,

00:28:03.640 if they can show they've paid tax

00:28:05.620 and contributed,

00:28:06.840 then fine.

00:28:07.600 But until then,

00:28:08.860 you should not be treated...

00:28:10.400 As a sort of basic ground level,

00:28:12.060 if you come from overseas,

00:28:13.540 you just don't get benefits.

00:28:14.820 You're not a member of the club.

00:28:15.900 Well, exactly.

00:28:16.840 And so it's, you know,

00:28:17.760 because we're at a point now

00:28:18.740 where we're paying billions

00:28:20.360 and billions every year

00:28:21.980 to foreigners to live here.

00:28:24.320 And it's like,

00:28:24.900 why are we doing this?

00:28:25.960 This is crazy.

00:28:26.800 And if we didn't do that,

00:28:27.620 they'd go home, I think.

00:28:28.540 So I think that's got to be the first...

00:28:30.780 I think you're right.

00:28:31.560 I think that's got to be

00:28:32.220 the first thing

00:28:32.800 that any sensible government does

00:28:34.160 is to turn off the tap.

00:28:35.980 Okay, let's go on

00:28:37.100 to the next thing

00:28:37.640 that caught my eye

00:28:38.760 because this is a drum

00:28:39.980 I've been banging

00:28:40.500 for quite a while.

00:28:41.480 And it's a restoration

00:28:42.740 of the death penalty.

00:28:45.000 Yeah, in extreme circumstances.

00:28:46.600 Of course, of course.

00:28:48.240 So I've been arguing

00:28:49.400 this point for quite a while

00:28:50.440 and you are the only parliamentarian

00:28:53.560 who is saying this.

00:28:55.900 And this is something

00:28:57.420 that when polled,

00:28:58.640 the British public still,

00:28:59.980 half of them still want

00:29:00.800 the death penalty restored.

00:29:02.160 And that's just if you ask,

00:29:03.880 do you want the death penalty restored?

00:29:05.560 They'll just say,

00:29:06.000 half of them would say,

00:29:06.600 yes, of course.

00:29:07.520 But when you change the question

00:29:08.920 and say, well,

00:29:09.320 do you think that terrorists

00:29:10.220 should get the death penalty?

00:29:11.480 It goes up into the 60s

00:29:12.860 and nearly reaching 70% of people

00:29:15.180 say, of course we should.

00:29:16.300 Because we've got some core examples.

00:29:20.000 Obviously, Rudokabana

00:29:20.920 is a great example.

00:29:22.700 Rudokabana was the chap,

00:29:24.060 or Rudokabana,

00:29:24.680 he was the person,

00:29:27.840 one of the people we had in mind

00:29:28.900 when you say in extreme cases.

00:29:31.060 I mean, look,

00:29:31.640 historically,

00:29:32.220 when we had the death penalty,

00:29:35.880 there obviously were

00:29:36.760 miscarriages of justice,

00:29:38.280 as indeed there are today,

00:29:40.120 not with the same consequence

00:29:42.860 because there's no death penalty.

00:29:44.420 But I mean,

00:29:44.760 still people are locked up

00:29:45.820 as innocent

00:29:46.280 and found to be innocent.

00:29:47.500 So the system is quite flawed.

00:29:50.720 And I do think the judiciary,

00:29:52.400 if you read the adult

00:29:54.000 court bench book,

00:29:55.580 which is the guidance

00:29:56.540 for magistrates and people,

00:29:58.240 it's basically started

00:29:59.240 to embed all this DEI

00:30:00.620 and WOCA into it.

00:30:01.620 So you've got a judiciary,

00:30:03.460 I think,

00:30:03.840 which is going off the rails.

00:30:05.260 And I spoke in Parliament

00:30:06.660 last week about

00:30:07.500 the dangers of abandoning

00:30:09.420 the jury trial,

00:30:10.420 which ultimately is embedded

00:30:11.900 into the Sixth Amendment.

00:30:13.240 So the simple reason

00:30:14.080 is there to protect the people.

00:30:15.880 So just as a quick thing on this,

00:30:17.060 I've actually done

00:30:17.780 quite a lot of research

00:30:18.560 on the death penalty

00:30:19.280 because I think it's important, right?

00:30:22.080 But in exceptional circumstances,

00:30:23.800 I personally think

00:30:25.240 it's a good thing.

00:30:26.720 Well, the thing is,

00:30:27.580 what's interesting is historically,

00:30:29.540 we have the death penalty

00:30:30.660 on the books

00:30:31.180 during the era

00:30:32.880 that was called

00:30:33.780 the Bloody Code.

00:30:34.960 There were something like

00:30:35.580 220 offences

00:30:36.880 that could have been

00:30:37.820 worthy of the death penalty.

00:30:39.200 However, we don't...

00:30:40.200 Well, treason was one of them.

00:30:40.920 Treason was one of them.

00:30:41.900 And that, yeah,

00:30:42.420 and that was Tony Blair

00:30:43.100 took that off.

00:30:44.340 But because the decision

00:30:46.520 was made by the jury,

00:30:47.520 often it was the jury

00:30:49.620 that decided,

00:30:50.280 no, this person,

00:30:50.960 he did something wrong,

00:30:51.880 but we're not going to give him

00:30:52.720 the death penalty

00:30:53.220 because of mitigating circumstances

00:30:54.740 because you needed

00:30:55.360 a unanimous vote

00:30:56.200 for the death penalty.

00:30:57.320 So actually, in Britain,

00:30:58.580 only a few hundred people

00:31:00.680 a year would end up

00:31:02.140 getting the death penalty.

00:31:03.040 And in some regions,

00:31:03.800 you just get no one

00:31:04.700 for decades

00:31:05.560 who had the death penalty.

00:31:07.280 Most of it was in London,

00:31:08.520 obviously,

00:31:08.780 because London,

00:31:09.200 big city,

00:31:10.840 you know,

00:31:11.060 there's a lot of crime

00:31:11.880 and there's, you know,

00:31:12.560 a lot of problems.

00:31:13.360 So you get about 200 people

00:31:14.600 a year in London,

00:31:15.300 but for the rest of the country,

00:31:16.120 mostly nothing.

00:31:17.520 Or one or two a year.

00:31:18.880 And it was, you know,

00:31:19.540 people who truly deserved it,

00:31:20.860 who were really,

00:31:21.560 really horrific people.

00:31:22.780 And that was back in an era

00:31:24.140 where forensic science

00:31:25.820 was simply not at the level

00:31:27.500 that we have it now.

00:31:28.640 So, for example,

00:31:29.580 philosophically,

00:31:30.680 there are two ways

00:31:31.480 of justifying things.

00:31:32.900 You've got fallibly

00:31:33.900 or infallibly.

00:31:36.060 Fallibly means

00:31:36.780 it could be something

00:31:37.620 other way, right?

00:31:38.680 It could be,

00:31:39.300 well, I think it's this,

00:31:40.600 but there could be

00:31:41.320 a circumstance

00:31:42.060 where I'm wrong about that.

00:31:43.280 But infallible justification

00:31:44.560 is where it has to,

00:31:45.780 it can't be any other way.

00:31:47.220 And a great example of this

00:31:48.240 is the Lee Rigby murderers,

00:31:50.460 where they're in broad daylight,

00:31:52.460 they run him down,

00:31:53.840 murder the man,

00:31:54.780 stand around with the blood

00:31:55.500 in their hand saying,

00:31:56.160 this is why we've done it.

00:31:57.300 It can't be any other people.

00:31:59.420 There's no one else

00:32:00.300 we could ascribe that murder to.

00:32:01.480 Well, same with Ruddy Cabana.

00:32:02.540 Same with Ruddy Cabana, right?

00:32:03.720 He's literally caught in the act

00:32:05.520 in the middle of doing it.

00:32:07.240 It couldn't be anyone else.

00:32:08.640 And in those cases,

00:32:10.600 well, I think there's

00:32:11.280 a very strong argument

00:32:12.120 for the death penalty.

00:32:13.140 Well, that hiding their crime

00:32:14.380 was not part of their agenda.

00:32:15.720 So it's quite clear.

00:32:17.140 Absolutely.

00:32:17.700 So why would you,

00:32:18.500 why would you continue

00:32:20.460 to allow them

00:32:22.700 at the cost of the British state

00:32:24.280 to,

00:32:25.180 and in Ruddy Cabana's case,

00:32:27.580 I think I'm right in saying

00:32:28.300 he threw some boiling water

00:32:29.900 or oil fat

00:32:31.860 over one of the prison guards.

00:32:33.480 Well, that should never

00:32:34.280 be allowed to happen either.

00:32:35.340 No.

00:32:35.840 And so,

00:32:36.380 but the argument

00:32:37.220 for the death penalty

00:32:37.980 is actually very strong

00:32:38.960 in these sort of narrow cases.

00:32:41.360 And I can,

00:32:42.000 I can completely agree with,

00:32:43.360 you know,

00:32:43.640 the average liberal to say,

00:32:44.500 but what about

00:32:44.940 if we're not entirely sure?

00:32:46.160 And actually, fine.

00:32:47.180 If we're not entirely sure,

00:32:48.680 then of course,

00:32:49.280 don't apply the death penalty.

00:32:50.760 But in those cases

00:32:51.660 where we are entirely sure,

00:32:53.740 why wouldn't we?

00:32:56.000 That's why we put it forward.

00:32:57.600 Now, we've had a few people

00:32:58.780 and I say to them,

00:33:00.820 they don't agree.

00:33:01.620 I said,

00:33:01.880 we are not going to agree

00:33:02.520 with every policy,

00:33:03.120 but you'll have a chance

00:33:04.200 to have your say on it.

00:33:05.700 And then,

00:33:06.520 you know,

00:33:06.740 this is what we want

00:33:07.860 to truly form

00:33:08.720 is a sort of policy platform.

00:33:11.360 And, you know,

00:33:12.300 which is democratic,

00:33:13.800 which does give people a say,

00:33:15.180 which does involve them

00:33:16.320 in the decision making.

00:33:17.620 This is part of the problem,

00:33:18.520 I think,

00:33:18.860 is people in the country

00:33:20.060 aren't really properly consulted.

00:33:22.200 The MPs

00:33:23.160 who are supposed to represent them

00:33:24.460 have no power.

00:33:25.260 They've been turned into eunuchs.

00:33:27.260 The power lies

00:33:28.620 with the parliamentary staff

00:33:30.700 and the permanent secretaries.

00:33:33.020 It doesn't lie

00:33:34.220 with the elected assembly.

00:33:36.440 So,

00:33:36.980 that's why we're trying

00:33:38.080 to introduce

00:33:38.720 a more direct

00:33:40.300 democratic process.

00:33:41.940 And I hope,

00:33:42.940 what I'm hoping

00:33:43.800 is that as we show

00:33:44.900 that we can do this,

00:33:46.500 more people will sign up

00:33:47.700 and more people

00:33:48.280 will believe in it

00:33:48.960 and then eventually

00:33:49.620 if we do attain

00:33:50.820 some form of power

00:33:51.840 and influence,

00:33:53.120 they will have

00:33:53.720 more of a say.

00:33:54.540 And that's ultimately

00:33:55.980 what we're trying to achieve.

00:33:57.720 So,

00:33:58.260 can we...

00:33:58.520 But I mean,

00:33:58.780 on death penalty,

00:33:59.560 we put it in,

00:34:00.180 we push it,

00:34:00.620 but some people

00:34:00.960 don't like it.

00:34:01.500 Fine.

00:34:01.940 And I said,

00:34:02.660 you're not going to agree

00:34:03.200 with everybody else.

00:34:03.760 Yeah, and I,

00:34:04.880 for example,

00:34:05.320 I'm friends with Lawrence Fox

00:34:06.240 and I saw him opposing it.

00:34:07.660 And I didn't start

00:34:09.660 arguing the case with him,

00:34:10.600 but I understand why,

00:34:12.920 but I think that we can

00:34:14.100 actually finesse this

00:34:15.460 in such a way

00:34:16.440 that we do actually

00:34:17.260 only target those people

00:34:18.400 where there's just

00:34:18.900 simply no doubt.

00:34:19.540 I mean,

00:34:19.700 my favourite

00:34:20.240 is an Englishman

00:34:20.980 the same as his castle.

00:34:22.060 Oh, yeah.

00:34:22.580 I was going to come on to that.

00:34:23.600 That's a big one for me.

00:34:25.120 I honestly,

00:34:26.380 this nonsense of...

00:34:27.760 Oh, yeah.

00:34:28.520 If somebody breaks

00:34:29.540 into your house,

00:34:30.480 threatens your family

00:34:31.860 and your property

00:34:33.200 and they end up

00:34:34.620 getting hurt.

00:34:35.380 As far as I'm concerned...

00:34:36.640 What were you doing

00:34:37.180 in my house?

00:34:37.400 That's their problem.

00:34:38.180 You shouldn't be

00:34:38.460 in their house.

00:34:39.080 Exactly.

00:34:39.740 I've got...

00:34:40.020 Now, we don't want

00:34:40.820 to get to the stage

00:34:41.580 that we have in America

00:34:43.000 where people knock

00:34:43.760 on the door

00:34:44.180 and get shot

00:34:44.760 through the front door.

00:34:45.640 That's a bit much, yeah.

00:34:46.260 That's a bit much,

00:34:47.060 but I mean,

00:34:47.960 what we should accept

00:34:50.540 is that you shouldn't

00:34:51.520 be breaking in

00:34:53.540 and damaging

00:34:54.380 other people's interests

00:34:55.220 and threatening

00:34:55.740 their well-being.

00:34:56.460 Well, just the very fact

00:34:57.600 that you broke

00:34:58.000 into my house means...

00:34:59.360 This is sort of

00:35:00.720 an old point

00:35:01.240 that John Locke makes.

00:35:02.640 It's like,

00:35:02.800 well, since you've decided

00:35:04.280 that these laws

00:35:05.000 don't apply to you,

00:35:06.260 what other laws

00:35:06.860 have you decided

00:35:07.420 don't apply to you

00:35:08.280 going forward?

00:35:09.040 I can't take a risk.

00:35:10.260 So actually,

00:35:10.900 if you are trying

00:35:11.760 to rob me

00:35:12.260 or you've broken

00:35:12.800 into my house,

00:35:13.360 I've got every right

00:35:14.000 to kill you

00:35:14.580 because I don't know

00:35:15.220 what your intentions are.

00:35:15.920 Which always used

00:35:16.420 to be the case.

00:35:17.200 Absolutely.

00:35:17.480 Now, you know,

00:35:18.580 you see these

00:35:20.040 terribly sort of

00:35:21.540 distressing scenes

00:35:22.480 of people who've

00:35:23.280 defended themselves

00:35:24.100 being arrested.

00:35:25.920 I mean,

00:35:26.280 I honestly think

00:35:27.260 the whole thing

00:35:27.860 is bonkers.

00:35:28.420 The worst one

00:35:29.040 I ever saw

00:35:29.540 was that some burglar

00:35:30.700 had broken into

00:35:31.300 someone's house,

00:35:32.700 tripped over

00:35:33.260 and hurt his back

00:35:34.160 on the table

00:35:35.300 or something

00:35:35.760 and he sued the guy

00:35:37.180 whose house

00:35:39.280 he had broken into

00:35:39.980 and I was just like,

00:35:41.380 okay, no,

00:35:41.900 I'm just,

00:35:42.580 this is insufferable.

00:35:43.660 Now, we come back

00:35:44.180 to the law.

00:35:44.760 I mean, you know,

00:35:45.120 it's the same on my farm.

00:35:46.320 Somebody can fall

00:35:46.900 in my lake and drown

00:35:47.760 and I'm held accountable.

00:35:49.020 They shouldn't be

00:35:49.400 in the first place.

00:35:50.220 Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:50.860 But, you know,

00:35:51.620 unless you have to now

00:35:52.720 put signs up

00:35:53.640 to say warning

00:35:54.760 deep water.

00:35:55.580 Dear burglars,

00:35:56.300 be careful.

00:35:57.360 I mean,

00:35:57.660 what a nonsense,

00:35:58.520 isn't it?

00:35:58.860 It's preposterous

00:35:59.700 and I completely agree

00:36:01.000 with the framing.

00:36:01.480 In Englishman's Home

00:36:02.060 is his castle.

00:36:03.020 If you break into my house,

00:36:04.520 I'm going to kill you.

00:36:06.340 Like, I'm not,

00:36:07.260 I've got four kids

00:36:08.320 in my house, you know,

00:36:09.060 so if I went downstairs

00:36:10.420 and found some guy

00:36:11.780 in my kitchen

00:36:12.720 or something like that,

00:36:14.060 I'd go ballistic.

00:36:15.260 Yeah, I agree.

00:36:15.820 And I think rightfully so,

00:36:17.500 right?

00:36:17.680 Because, I mean,

00:36:18.000 I don't know why.

00:36:18.520 Well, you shouldn't be there

00:36:18.860 or she shouldn't be there.

00:36:20.200 How dare you be in my house?

00:36:21.820 This is my house,

00:36:22.620 not yours.

00:36:23.040 You know you shouldn't be there.

00:36:24.400 Anything that happens

00:36:25.140 to you after that

00:36:25.820 is you've,

00:36:26.860 as far as I'm concerned,

00:36:27.860 you've consented to it,

00:36:28.740 frankly.

00:36:29.540 Yeah.

00:36:29.800 So that's another,

00:36:30.820 another great policy initiative.

00:36:32.820 I honestly,

00:36:33.860 and I agree with these things

00:36:34.920 on not just sort of

00:36:35.740 like a practical level as well.

00:36:37.120 I think that's got

00:36:38.500 genuine sort of moral implications

00:36:41.420 for how the country is governed

00:36:42.900 and whose interest

00:36:43.800 the country is governed in.

00:36:45.160 Because to say,

00:36:45.840 oh, you can't actually,

00:36:47.180 you're not allowed to hurt

00:36:48.360 a burglar who breaks into your house.

00:36:49.800 Well, that doesn't help me at all.

00:36:51.180 That just helps the burglar.

00:36:52.360 And actually,

00:36:52.680 I don't think we should be helping it.

00:36:53.860 Well, don't you,

00:36:54.480 I just think the whole system

00:36:55.860 is skewed at the moment

00:36:57.260 towards the miscreant,

00:36:59.840 not towards the honest

00:37:01.040 taxpaying citizen.

00:37:02.180 And that must be wrong.

00:37:03.940 That must be wrong

00:37:05.020 in every respect.

00:37:06.520 I mean,

00:37:06.820 I'm going to declare

00:37:07.760 that that's wrong

00:37:08.480 because I'm an honest

00:37:09.260 taxpaying citizen.

00:37:10.440 So I'm completely against

00:37:12.300 that kind of system.

00:37:13.620 Well,

00:37:13.980 don't you think people feel that?

00:37:16.400 I think they do.

00:37:17.500 I think they feel that.

00:37:18.520 And I think

00:37:19.140 we've come to a point

00:37:20.700 where the country

00:37:21.620 is a lot more radical

00:37:22.440 than the politicians are,

00:37:23.720 actually.

00:37:24.420 Oh, yeah.

00:37:25.140 You know,

00:37:26.100 I have conversations

00:37:26.820 with tax drivers,

00:37:27.980 people in pubs,

00:37:28.940 and they're just like,

00:37:29.980 honestly,

00:37:31.000 a lot of people

00:37:32.300 have lost a lot of faith

00:37:33.080 in the democratic system

00:37:34.020 and wouldn't be upset

00:37:36.140 with radical action.

00:37:37.880 Obviously,

00:37:38.140 I'm not suggesting

00:37:38.680 radical action.

00:37:39.320 But the point is,

00:37:41.360 if the mood of the country

00:37:42.700 has shifted to that point,

00:37:44.300 then we've got to do something.

00:37:46.680 I think we have to ask ourselves,

00:37:48.920 don't you,

00:37:49.800 why would the state

00:37:52.000 try and create that situation?

00:37:55.960 Would an honest state

00:37:57.960 not protect its decent,

00:38:03.420 law-abiding,

00:38:04.400 taxpaying citizens?

00:38:05.300 So you have to ask yourself,

00:38:06.900 does that mean the state

00:38:08.520 is corrupt itself?

00:38:10.460 Yes, and yes.

00:38:11.360 That is the question

00:38:12.140 we have to ask ourselves.

00:38:13.280 And I hope it's not the case,

00:38:15.900 but it could be.

00:38:16.780 If there's actually,

00:38:18.920 so I'm a philosopher

00:38:20.780 and there's a lot of philosophical thought

00:38:23.140 that goes into this.

00:38:24.220 And actually,

00:38:24.820 Nietzsche is one of the most interesting

00:38:26.640 on this,

00:38:27.500 where essentially,

00:38:28.700 the larger and more powerful

00:38:30.260 the state becomes,

00:38:31.640 the more tolerant it becomes

00:38:32.980 of society's parasites.

00:38:34.600 And it says,

00:38:35.060 well,

00:38:35.160 why should I do something

00:38:37.260 about them?

00:38:38.900 I can just tolerate them.

00:38:40.460 I can just carry them with me.

00:38:42.440 But moreover,

00:38:43.480 if I was to do something,

00:38:44.600 why would I punish them

00:38:46.160 as if they've done something wrong?

00:38:47.600 Why wouldn't I just render them harmless?

00:38:49.700 Isn't it enough to render them harmless?

00:38:51.160 It's like,

00:38:51.400 no,

00:38:51.560 because that isn't moral,

00:38:53.860 right?

00:38:54.040 That is utilitarian.

00:38:55.580 That is to say,

00:38:56.660 well,

00:38:56.840 they're not hurting me,

00:38:57.620 so it's not a problem.

00:38:58.360 It's like,

00:38:59.080 okay,

00:38:59.300 but you're not enforcing

00:39:00.420 an affirmative moral order here.

00:39:01.960 No,

00:39:02.240 we punish them

00:39:03.180 to enforce our morality upon them.

00:39:06.280 You know,

00:39:06.380 we are literally,

00:39:07.520 in the sort of Foucauldian paradigm,

00:39:09.700 we are oppressing them

00:39:10.660 with our moral standards.

00:39:12.200 Well,

00:39:12.280 it's rather like bringing children up.

00:39:14.000 Yes.

00:39:14.140 If you try and bring them up

00:39:16.380 to imbue them with the right,

00:39:18.180 yes,

00:39:18.920 well,

00:39:19.560 the knowledge of what is right

00:39:20.780 and what is wrong,

00:39:21.600 and that's the job of a parent.

00:39:23.060 That's,

00:39:23.580 again,

00:39:24.740 one of the things

00:39:26.100 we strongly believe in

00:39:27.780 is the family

00:39:28.960 and the family unit.

00:39:31.860 And therefore,

00:39:33.220 a bit like Lee Kuan Yew did in Singapore,

00:39:35.140 you reward the family unit,

00:39:37.800 you promote the family unit,

00:39:39.320 you support the family unit,

00:39:41.040 and now we've got Singapore

00:39:43.100 with a GDP per capita of twice ours,

00:39:45.400 which,

00:39:45.920 when I used to go there

00:39:46.740 in the mid-80s,

00:39:48.660 it was still very much

00:39:49.840 a rudimentary economy

00:39:52.560 sort of sitting on the tip of Malaysia.

00:39:54.520 Look at Poland.

00:39:55.600 Poland's GDP is skyrocketing,

00:39:57.920 and Poland has protectionist

00:39:59.460 pro-family policies.

00:40:01.600 Poland's a good country.

00:40:02.620 That's a great country.

00:40:04.100 And I'm jealous,

00:40:04.960 frankly,

00:40:05.700 of Poland

00:40:06.240 and the way that the government

00:40:07.260 is actually taking care of their country.

00:40:09.100 And I wish our government...

00:40:09.720 Well, even Viktor Orban,

00:40:10.720 who gets very bad publicity,

00:40:12.840 he's doing his best

00:40:13.640 to protect the interests

00:40:14.440 of the Hungarian people.

00:40:15.500 Why wouldn't you?

00:40:16.780 Well,

00:40:17.300 that's the point,

00:40:18.240 because our politicians,

00:40:19.840 I think they're beholden

00:40:20.680 to this international liberal

00:40:22.740 order of human rights.

00:40:24.300 I think that's more important to them

00:40:25.800 than the country being successful.

00:40:27.800 By a long way,

00:40:28.760 actually.

00:40:29.040 I think they're emotionally committed

00:40:31.640 to human rights,

00:40:33.500 whatever that's supposed to mean.

00:40:34.840 And it doesn't matter

00:40:36.200 what happens to the country.

00:40:37.820 I mean,

00:40:38.000 one of the things that

00:40:38.760 Keir Starmer has demonstrated

00:40:40.240 is that he has every sympathy

00:40:42.080 for any villain

00:40:43.700 because they're being oppressed

00:40:45.640 by the state,

00:40:46.680 as far as he's concerned.

00:40:47.680 Oh,

00:40:48.020 he used to go around the world

00:40:50.900 trying to get child murderers

00:40:52.340 off the death penalty for free

00:40:53.860 because he thought that was banned.

00:40:55.820 It's like,

00:40:55.980 but you didn't think

00:40:56.760 that when they were murdering a child,

00:40:58.140 that child had the same right to life

00:41:00.400 that you think the murderer has.

00:41:02.340 And so it's very interesting

00:41:03.700 how it's always

00:41:04.380 the villain is the victim.

00:41:06.040 And it's like,

00:41:06.360 no,

00:41:06.520 I don't believe it.

00:41:07.660 The villain is the villain

00:41:09.000 and we are the good people

00:41:10.760 who ought to do something about that.

00:41:12.660 And we need to punish them.

00:41:14.120 Well,

00:41:14.240 I think with the Hermers,

00:41:15.520 the Starmers

00:41:16.220 and the Philippe Sanzes

00:41:18.240 sort of now embedded

00:41:19.300 at the centre of our

00:41:20.680 sort of leadership,

00:41:22.620 the lunatics truly are

00:41:24.460 running the asylum.

00:41:25.360 I'm afraid.

00:41:25.680 you can see it.

00:41:26.520 Keir Starmer is one of his first acts.

00:41:27.700 But they may be malign lunatics.

00:41:29.340 They may actually have

00:41:30.120 a malign agenda

00:41:30.920 at the same time,

00:41:31.820 which I suspect they do.

00:41:33.000 It's not even may.

00:41:33.740 I think it's open.

00:41:34.860 I mean,

00:41:35.380 Keir Starmer opening the prisons

00:41:36.620 and letting out thieves

00:41:37.820 and murderers

00:41:38.420 in his first couple of weeks

00:41:40.120 in power.

00:41:41.460 This is like,

00:41:42.360 what are you doing?

00:41:43.040 It's bizarre.

00:41:43.780 It's bizarre.

00:41:44.620 Unbelievable.

00:41:45.480 But so anyway,

00:41:46.200 so I think,

00:41:47.100 I think we can agree

00:41:47.780 that Restore Britain

00:41:48.380 is on the pro-British side

00:41:51.420 of the political argument.

00:41:53.120 Look,

00:41:53.420 if you look at,

00:41:55.000 and I always say,

00:41:55.720 watch what the hands are doing,

00:41:56.780 not what the mouth is saying.

00:41:57.760 If you look at what I've done

00:41:58.620 throughout my life,

00:41:59.320 I fought the Maastricht Treaty.

00:42:01.480 I stood for the referendum party

00:42:02.660 to save the pound.

00:42:04.120 I then did a lot of business

00:42:05.680 for Sterling,

00:42:06.400 vote leave,

00:42:07.440 stood in the European Parliament.

00:42:10.400 And here I am.

00:42:11.200 I've just kept going

00:42:11.860 because the establishment

00:42:12.460 didn't respect the vote

00:42:13.720 in 2016.

00:42:14.500 I always want

00:42:16.920 a sovereign nation state

00:42:19.560 run from Westminster.

00:42:21.620 And I've always had the view,

00:42:23.920 unlike the post-war elite,

00:42:25.520 that the nation state

00:42:28.100 is the most important unit.

00:42:30.500 And as we know,

00:42:31.460 Europe didn't like that

00:42:32.320 because France and Germany

00:42:33.160 have a habit of trying

00:42:33.940 to invade each other

00:42:34.740 and the rest of Europe,

00:42:35.600 which we,

00:42:36.540 thankfully,

00:42:36.880 we've never done.

00:42:37.700 And we could have done

00:42:38.300 after Waterloo,

00:42:39.120 but we chose to trade

00:42:40.180 with Europe freely,

00:42:41.260 which is not what they're choosing

00:42:42.240 to do with us now.

00:42:43.200 So I believe Europe

00:42:46.920 worked very well

00:42:48.240 when it was a collection

00:42:50.000 of cooperating nation states,

00:42:52.760 occasionally warring nation states.

00:42:54.560 But from war you get,

00:42:56.340 and I'm not condoning war,

00:42:57.520 but you actually get

00:42:58.300 most of your innovation

00:42:59.220 during war.

00:43:00.040 And look what's happening

00:43:00.720 in Ukraine.

00:43:01.420 You've got drone warfare,

00:43:03.280 you know,

00:43:03.640 both in the air

00:43:05.000 and on the ground.

00:43:05.940 It's developing very fast.

00:43:07.520 War tends to create innovation.

00:43:10.320 And yeah,

00:43:10.620 it's not a good thing,

00:43:11.460 but I think nation states

00:43:13.520 are an accountable unit

00:43:14.820 and ideally a cooperation

00:43:17.440 amongst what I call

00:43:19.020 accountable units

00:43:19.940 is much better

00:43:20.660 than a top-down

00:43:22.500 sort of nanny-knows-best

00:43:24.540 statist block

00:43:27.000 which oppresses its people.

00:43:28.940 And I would argue

00:43:29.940 that the 510 million

00:43:32.160 or whatever it is

00:43:32.780 European citizens

00:43:33.680 are pretty oppressed.

00:43:36.240 I agree.

00:43:36.740 I mean,

00:43:37.000 if the European Union

00:43:37.960 was a confederacy

00:43:39.040 rather than a union,

00:43:40.140 I'd have far fewer

00:43:41.580 problems with it.

00:43:42.280 But it wouldn't operate

00:43:43.620 in the way that it does.

00:43:44.760 So anyway,

00:43:45.260 let's move on.

00:43:46.500 So what's next

00:43:48.760 for the Restore Britain movement?

00:43:51.080 How do you see it

00:43:52.440 interfacing with,

00:43:53.260 say,

00:43:53.360 other popular movements

00:43:54.540 that exist in the country

00:43:56.560 or with the existing parties?

00:44:00.680 How do you see it moving?

00:44:01.740 I think we want

00:44:02.380 to be a unifying force.

00:44:03.940 I don't think,

00:44:06.360 you know,

00:44:06.860 people ask me

00:44:08.100 about Advance UK.

00:44:09.520 I didn't know Ben

00:44:10.740 was going to be launching.

00:44:11.720 He didn't tell me.

00:44:12.480 I did try and

00:44:13.500 I spoke to him

00:44:14.300 a lot beforehand.

00:44:15.240 He wanted a party.

00:44:16.220 I wanted a movement.

00:44:18.340 But look,

00:44:18.940 I like Ben very much.

00:44:20.000 I hope eventually

00:44:20.700 we do end up

00:44:21.440 working together.

00:44:22.360 I don't particularly

00:44:24.040 like the name

00:44:24.700 Advance UK.

00:44:26.280 As I've said in the past,

00:44:27.620 I think it sounds

00:44:28.180 like a toothpaste brand

00:44:29.260 rather than a political party.

00:44:31.380 But look,

00:44:31.760 that was his decision.

00:44:32.640 I told him that too.

00:44:33.160 That was his decision.

00:44:33.840 I told him that's a great name.

00:44:35.520 Not mine.

00:44:35.820 Yeah.

00:44:36.900 But I think Ben

00:44:37.920 is a decent man

00:44:39.560 and I want to unify

00:44:40.920 and work with people like Ben

00:44:42.620 because I think he is a patriot

00:44:43.780 and I think at the end of the day.

00:44:45.700 And there are many other patriots

00:44:46.960 and hopefully we can all

00:44:48.040 we can all get together now.

00:44:50.220 And as I say,

00:44:52.200 our country,

00:44:52.940 our responsibility,

00:44:54.040 I,

00:44:54.680 but the problem we've had,

00:44:55.840 I think,

00:44:56.620 Carl,

00:44:56.900 is that a lot of British people

00:44:59.220 have probably had it

00:45:00.200 too good since the war.

00:45:02.300 They've taken their eye

00:45:03.440 off the ball.

00:45:04.960 They've probably been

00:45:06.580 bribed with

00:45:08.700 all sorts of

00:45:10.060 quantitative easing

00:45:11.340 and they've been deluded

00:45:12.600 by people putting

00:45:14.760 sellotape over the cracks.

00:45:18.720 And as I say,

00:45:20.780 you can feel the country

00:45:22.200 slipping away.

00:45:23.020 So I think Restore Britain

00:45:24.540 is an opportunity

00:45:26.420 for people

00:45:27.280 to show that

00:45:29.040 they're concerned

00:45:29.720 and actually do

00:45:30.400 something about it.

00:45:31.840 And if they don't,

00:45:33.380 then,

00:45:34.020 and they lose their country,

00:45:35.200 don't come crying

00:45:35.820 on my shoulder

00:45:36.400 because at the end of the day

00:45:37.340 I'm trying.

00:45:39.740 We all are.

00:45:40.560 I didn't choose

00:45:41.340 to do this really.

00:45:42.140 I mean,

00:45:42.400 I just feel

00:45:43.440 I've got to do it

00:45:44.640 and one thing's led

00:45:46.800 to another

00:45:47.220 and here I am.

00:45:48.160 As I always think,

00:45:50.140 very often the truth

00:45:51.380 is weirder than fiction

00:45:53.340 and I think

00:45:54.280 this is another

00:45:54.860 example of that.

00:45:56.400 And people ask me,

00:45:57.240 well,

00:45:57.320 how did you become

00:45:58.080 chairman of

00:45:58.700 Southampton Football Club?

00:45:59.860 Or I didn't start

00:46:01.040 with a piece of paper

00:46:01.860 and have a plan

00:46:02.500 to become chairman

00:46:03.300 of Southampton.

00:46:04.260 It just happened.

00:46:05.340 Yeah.

00:46:06.500 And,

00:46:07.080 you know,

00:46:07.660 I think with

00:46:09.100 my life,

00:46:10.280 I always seem

00:46:11.340 to court controversy.

00:46:12.940 I don't know why

00:46:14.520 because I think

00:46:15.520 I'm pretty straightforward

00:46:16.340 and easy to get on with

00:46:18.100 but there seems

00:46:18.820 to be

00:46:19.260 a general,

00:46:20.940 wherever I go,

00:46:21.660 I get sort of,

00:46:23.060 I find I bump

00:46:24.680 into authority

00:46:25.540 and rules

00:46:26.640 and regulations

00:46:27.420 and laws

00:46:28.200 and all I'm trying

00:46:29.560 to do is the best

00:46:30.920 I can.

00:46:32.360 And I would say

00:46:33.460 in Parliament now,

00:46:34.600 I think the sort

00:46:37.880 of very bad

00:46:39.300 development

00:46:40.520 from the MP

00:46:41.920 expenses scandal

00:46:43.200 is that there is

00:46:44.680 now a collection

00:46:46.860 of extremely

00:46:47.840 complex rules.

00:46:49.580 I mean,

00:46:49.740 I personally

00:46:50.300 describe the

00:46:51.400 Parliamentary

00:46:52.020 rulebook

00:46:52.480 as a rather

00:46:53.380 like a homunculus

00:46:54.420 that's been thrown

00:46:55.120 together

00:46:55.500 and it basically

00:46:57.160 contradicts itself.

00:46:58.400 It's not clear.

00:46:59.720 But it does empower

00:47:01.060 the parliamentary staff

00:47:03.360 and disempower

00:47:04.320 the MPs.

00:47:05.520 It also is a

00:47:06.780 disincentive

00:47:07.600 for people

00:47:08.080 to go

00:47:09.220 and actually

00:47:09.700 do things

00:47:10.900 as an active MP

00:47:11.960 because they can

00:47:13.320 always fall foul

00:47:14.260 of some petty rule.

00:47:16.300 And that shouldn't

00:47:17.080 be the way,

00:47:17.840 I mean,

00:47:18.100 obviously we should

00:47:18.800 have a commissioner

00:47:19.500 on standards

00:47:20.080 who is there

00:47:21.440 to ultimately

00:47:22.580 regulate and make

00:47:23.760 sure people

00:47:24.140 aren't being

00:47:24.780 dishonest.

00:47:26.100 But what you

00:47:26.540 don't need

00:47:27.100 is one that

00:47:27.800 can subjectively

00:47:29.000 fetter the way

00:47:29.920 in which MPs

00:47:31.880 go about their

00:47:32.460 daily business.

00:47:33.380 And MPs are

00:47:34.540 elected by the

00:47:35.880 people,

00:47:36.620 they represent

00:47:37.320 the people,

00:47:38.060 they're a very,

00:47:38.760 very important

00:47:39.380 part of our

00:47:39.920 democracy,

00:47:40.400 but to some

00:47:40.860 extent they've

00:47:41.460 been undermined.

00:47:42.840 And that needs

00:47:43.940 to change.

00:47:44.280 Not by accident.

00:47:46.160 So can I ask you

00:47:47.560 about the Rape Gang

00:47:48.180 Inquiry?

00:47:49.200 Because I see you

00:47:49.860 posting about it

00:47:50.420 and I was wondering

00:47:50.840 if you could give

00:47:51.280 us an update.

00:47:52.140 Yeah, we've got

00:47:52.880 next week in

00:47:54.300 Parliament,

00:47:55.000 actually this morning

00:47:56.280 we've invited

00:47:57.020 all my fellow MPs

00:47:58.880 to come and meet

00:47:59.400 them,

00:47:59.600 but we've actually

00:48:00.120 got,

00:48:01.380 I think it's

00:48:02.160 about 30 girls,

00:48:03.280 it may be a few

00:48:03.780 more,

00:48:04.020 we're not quite sure

00:48:04.720 exactly how many,

00:48:05.920 coming down to

00:48:06.660 Parliament.

00:48:07.300 So 30 of the

00:48:08.380 victims are coming

00:48:09.660 down.

00:48:10.480 How many MPs

00:48:11.340 have agreed to

00:48:11.820 meet them?

00:48:12.300 Well,

00:48:12.520 we only sent

00:48:13.820 the email out

00:48:14.200 so they're

00:48:14.920 coming down,

00:48:15.500 we've had some

00:48:16.860 great help from

00:48:17.980 people who are

00:48:19.500 supportive of us,

00:48:20.400 who've got a very

00:48:21.140 nice office locally

00:48:21.940 that they're going

00:48:22.780 to help basically

00:48:24.140 put them up,

00:48:25.640 well,

00:48:26.840 put them up

00:48:27.300 with a cup of

00:48:28.560 tea and a

00:48:28.980 sandwich,

00:48:29.940 and then they're

00:48:30.420 going to come

00:48:30.700 over to Parliament

00:48:31.260 and everybody

00:48:31.880 can meet with

00:48:33.020 them.

00:48:33.220 We're not going

00:48:33.580 to have journalists

00:48:34.140 there,

00:48:34.660 this is just

00:48:35.320 going to be an

00:48:35.720 internal thing.

00:48:37.540 But what we are

00:48:38.400 finding,

00:48:39.300 and look,

00:48:39.960 I can't praise

00:48:41.100 my team enough,

00:48:42.740 that,

00:48:43.000 you know,

00:48:44.080 that's Sammy

00:48:44.760 Woodhouse,

00:48:45.320 as you know,

00:48:45.800 and her friend

00:48:47.400 called Natalie,

00:48:48.180 who's basically

00:48:48.960 doing a lot of

00:48:49.480 the welfare

00:48:51.020 stuff,

00:48:51.600 because a lot

00:48:52.140 of this can

00:48:52.800 be quite

00:48:53.540 difficult for

00:48:54.600 girls to

00:48:55.120 actually have

00:48:55.880 these tragedies

00:48:57.680 brought back up,

00:48:59.720 or these vile

00:49:00.380 crimes,

00:49:00.980 one should say.

00:49:01.480 So I think

00:49:04.720 what we have

00:49:05.640 identified,

00:49:07.220 this is happening

00:49:07.960 everywhere.

00:49:09.900 This is not

00:49:10.540 happening just

00:49:12.080 in a few places,

00:49:13.040 Carl.

00:49:13.340 I mean,

00:49:13.600 we think this is

00:49:14.300 happening in over

00:49:14.920 a hundred towns

00:49:15.740 and cities across

00:49:16.460 the country.

00:49:18.140 And the state

00:49:20.600 probably doesn't

00:49:21.500 like what I've

00:49:22.140 done.

00:49:22.580 Maybe that's why

00:49:23.400 they keep having

00:49:24.560 a pop at me,

00:49:25.720 because they

00:49:26.660 tried to play

00:49:28.140 the good Samaritan,

00:49:29.320 walk along the

00:49:29.940 other side of

00:49:30.480 the street,

00:49:31.500 look the other

00:49:32.040 way and pretend

00:49:32.980 this wasn't

00:49:33.560 happening,

00:49:34.240 for reasons

00:49:35.440 that are pretty

00:49:35.960 obvious.

00:49:37.760 They didn't want

00:49:38.460 to be called

00:49:38.820 racists,

00:49:39.960 they didn't want

00:49:40.520 to admit that

00:49:41.100 their post-war

00:49:41.820 multicultural

00:49:42.440 experiment had

00:49:43.340 failed,

00:49:44.560 and most of

00:49:45.800 this had been

00:49:46.180 happening in

00:49:46.680 Labour wards,

00:49:47.540 and they

00:49:47.800 therefore didn't

00:49:48.640 want in any

00:49:49.920 way to expose

00:49:51.660 the fact that

00:49:52.460 the Muslim

00:49:53.660 bloc vote was

00:49:54.560 a very important

00:49:55.260 part of Labour

00:49:56.620 winning power.

00:49:58.040 I think that's

00:49:58.860 actually one of

00:49:59.380 the most

00:49:59.620 important things

00:49:59.920 parts as well.

00:50:00.240 So the postal

00:50:00.800 voting system

00:50:01.860 needs to be

00:50:02.220 completely overhauled,

00:50:03.240 it's a farce,

00:50:04.280 and it's open

00:50:05.380 to basically

00:50:06.240 complete abuse.

00:50:08.180 So I think

00:50:09.620 we are making

00:50:10.720 good progress.

00:50:12.200 Some people

00:50:12.800 say to me,

00:50:13.400 oh well now

00:50:13.880 the government's

00:50:14.640 agreed to have

00:50:15.340 a statutory

00:50:15.820 inquiry,

00:50:16.360 you should step

00:50:17.640 down and stop

00:50:18.280 doing yours.

00:50:19.020 I'm sure they'll

00:50:19.560 do a great job,

00:50:20.440 I'm sure I can

00:50:21.020 trust them.

00:50:21.680 Have we heard

00:50:22.360 any more?

00:50:22.940 Have we heard

00:50:23.540 any plans?

00:50:24.300 Have we heard

00:50:24.780 any announcements

00:50:26.100 about what the

00:50:27.120 structure's going

00:50:27.760 to be,

00:50:28.280 what the time

00:50:28.860 scale's going to

00:50:29.560 be,

00:50:30.180 how it's going

00:50:30.780 to be run?

00:50:31.500 No, we haven't.

00:50:33.160 And this is the

00:50:34.120 state marking

00:50:34.840 its own homework.

00:50:35.940 Yes.

00:50:36.380 So no,

00:50:36.880 I am going to

00:50:37.700 be there,

00:50:38.740 and we are going

00:50:39.380 to continue with

00:50:40.440 what we're doing,

00:50:41.280 and we're going to

00:50:41.860 hold them to

00:50:42.360 account.

00:50:43.220 Now, we've only

00:50:43.920 got a very small

00:50:44.860 sum of money.

00:50:45.480 I mean, we raised

00:50:46.920 in all about

00:50:47.640 £600,000.

00:50:51.840 The J inquiry,

00:50:53.080 I think,

00:50:53.400 cost £186 million.

00:50:56.280 So we are

00:50:57.280 literally operating

00:50:58.540 on a shoestring.

00:51:00.580 I've got to give

00:51:01.740 credit to all those

00:51:02.560 people who gave

00:51:03.780 whatever they gave,

00:51:04.800 and some people

00:51:05.500 gave, by their

00:51:06.920 standards, a lot.

00:51:07.800 Some people gave

00:51:08.720 bigger donations,

00:51:10.660 but to some

00:51:11.320 people, smaller

00:51:11.920 donations were a

00:51:12.940 bigger cost.

00:51:13.660 So, you know,

00:51:14.680 thank you to

00:51:15.180 everybody, because

00:51:15.760 they clearly care

00:51:17.580 deeply about this

00:51:18.800 issue, and so

00:51:19.440 they should.

00:51:20.700 Because how can

00:51:21.340 a society be at

00:51:22.760 peace with itself

00:51:23.520 when you've got

00:51:24.200 this criminality

00:51:26.040 basically embedded

00:51:27.480 within our

00:51:28.060 structure?

00:51:28.580 It just doesn't

00:51:29.120 work for me.

00:51:30.380 So I think a lot

00:51:32.680 of people completely

00:51:34.160 agree with you,

00:51:35.540 but there seems to

00:51:37.040 be a kind of

00:51:37.760 looming, unsaid

00:51:39.480 question over

00:51:40.460 the entire thing,

00:51:41.460 which is, what

00:51:43.720 did the community

00:51:44.560 that this came

00:51:45.120 from know about

00:51:46.400 this, and what

00:51:48.740 can be done to

00:51:50.020 find a kind of

00:51:50.880 moral balancing

00:51:52.060 of the scales?

00:51:53.860 Well, I'm quite

00:51:55.120 clear, and we're

00:51:55.660 quite clear on this.

00:51:56.620 I mean, I think

00:51:57.360 if families knew

00:51:59.300 that this was

00:52:00.000 happening, or a

00:52:00.880 member of the

00:52:01.320 family was

00:52:01.800 perpetrating it,

00:52:02.660 I think they have

00:52:04.580 to bear the

00:52:05.080 responsibility for

00:52:06.060 that.

00:52:06.420 I mean, that is

00:52:07.140 their duty, with

00:52:09.460 a vile crime like

00:52:10.380 this, is to expose

00:52:11.520 it, not to hide

00:52:12.860 it.

00:52:14.940 I mean, we're

00:52:16.140 working with a

00:52:19.140 group of people

00:52:20.260 now to try and

00:52:21.080 make sure we do

00:52:21.820 get videos in

00:52:24.100 taxes, because

00:52:25.800 again, I think a

00:52:26.660 lot of this is

00:52:27.200 linked to the

00:52:27.680 drug trade.

00:52:28.280 And if you think

00:52:31.740 about it, a taxi

00:52:32.740 sitting outside a

00:52:34.180 house is not

00:52:34.960 unusual, whereas

00:52:37.040 a private car

00:52:37.960 sitting there,

00:52:38.640 people might ask,

00:52:39.600 what's that person

00:52:40.360 doing sitting in

00:52:41.060 the car?

00:52:41.420 So, if you had

00:52:43.080 cameras in the

00:52:43.980 taxis, in every

00:52:45.680 taxi, then you

00:52:48.180 think the taxi

00:52:48.780 drivers want it.

00:52:49.800 If they're

00:52:50.680 operating legally,

00:52:53.280 why would they

00:52:54.060 not want it?

00:52:54.720 It protects

00:52:55.180 them.

00:52:56.500 So, we're

00:52:57.140 trying to do it,

00:52:57.580 but there's a

00:52:57.920 resistance to that,

00:52:59.500 which immediately

00:53:00.300 makes me

00:53:01.040 concerned.

00:53:01.740 So, we're

00:53:04.300 working to

00:53:05.160 achieve that.

00:53:06.240 There's a lot of

00:53:07.020 things coming out

00:53:07.740 of the rape gang

00:53:09.840 inquiry, which I

00:53:10.680 think hopefully

00:53:11.400 will improve

00:53:12.820 things.

00:53:13.340 But the most

00:53:13.840 important thing

00:53:14.580 is that the

00:53:16.280 state admits that

00:53:17.420 it has presided

00:53:18.340 over something

00:53:19.220 which should

00:53:20.820 never have been

00:53:21.400 allowed to

00:53:21.840 happen.

00:53:22.280 And that goes

00:53:23.000 to, I mean,

00:53:23.660 almost every

00:53:24.420 organ of the

00:53:24.920 state, whether

00:53:25.300 it's the doctors

00:53:26.260 in the NHS

00:53:27.020 must have known

00:53:27.740 it's happening,

00:53:28.820 social services

00:53:29.580 must have known

00:53:30.160 it was happening,

00:53:30.600 the police

00:53:30.980 definitely knew

00:53:31.700 it was happening.

00:53:32.220 And I think

00:53:32.540 one of the

00:53:32.940 reasons why

00:53:33.480 they didn't

00:53:34.260 want a statutory

00:53:34.820 inquiry is if

00:53:36.600 they link all

00:53:37.380 the police

00:53:37.720 databases, they're

00:53:39.040 going to find

00:53:39.460 there's a pattern

00:53:40.000 there.

00:53:41.020 So, they didn't

00:53:41.840 want to do that.

00:53:42.440 They wanted to

00:53:42.920 silo it all so

00:53:44.020 nobody actually

00:53:44.980 could see the

00:53:46.000 extent of the

00:53:46.580 problem.

00:53:48.060 And when

00:53:48.520 Sadiq Khan tries

00:53:50.680 to sort of

00:53:51.260 suggest it isn't

00:53:52.700 happening in

00:53:53.220 London, which I

00:53:53.980 think he did,

00:53:55.220 I mean, that's

00:53:55.800 just a farce.

00:53:56.960 Of course it's

00:53:57.400 happening in

00:53:57.820 London.

00:53:58.320 It's still

00:53:58.640 happening now.

00:53:59.560 Yeah.

00:53:59.660 So, we've got

00:54:03.440 a great team

00:54:04.600 of people.

00:54:04.820 Sammy Woodhouse

00:54:05.580 is a dynamo

00:54:06.540 and she's done

00:54:07.900 a great job.

00:54:08.720 So, in

00:54:10.040 answer to your

00:54:10.440 question, we're

00:54:10.900 making progress.

00:54:13.220 We are

00:54:13.960 identifying victims.

00:54:15.500 We are going to

00:54:16.100 have a hearing in

00:54:17.120 due course when

00:54:17.700 we're ready.

00:54:18.320 Yep.

00:54:18.920 And we will

00:54:19.780 produce a report.

00:54:21.000 We issued a

00:54:22.600 term of reference

00:54:23.200 and we're going

00:54:23.640 to try and

00:54:24.000 deliver that.

00:54:26.120 Have you got a

00:54:26.600 rough timescale

00:54:27.460 for this?

00:54:28.120 We don't have a

00:54:28.780 firm timescale,

00:54:29.540 no, because we've

00:54:30.100 got to do the

00:54:30.740 job as properly

00:54:31.540 as we can.

00:54:32.280 Right.

00:54:32.940 And I think

00:54:33.580 depending on when

00:54:34.500 the state comes

00:54:35.480 up with its

00:54:36.360 statutory inquiry

00:54:38.880 and what the

00:54:40.980 terms of reference

00:54:41.740 are, which I

00:54:42.380 haven't seen yet

00:54:43.220 of you.

00:54:43.820 No.

00:54:44.080 And it all

00:54:45.280 boils down, as

00:54:45.980 you know, to the

00:54:46.500 terms of reference

00:54:47.340 because you can

00:54:48.140 the wrong terms

00:54:51.340 of reference can

00:54:52.180 hide an awful

00:54:53.560 lot of things.

00:54:54.460 Would you like to

00:54:54.920 explain how that

00:54:55.900 works for people

00:54:56.940 who aren't aware?

00:54:58.120 What terms of

00:54:58.640 reference?

00:54:59.160 Yeah, and how it

00:54:59.740 hides things.

00:55:01.320 Well, if you have

00:55:02.080 a, like, we put

00:55:03.300 out a statement as

00:55:04.360 to how we were

00:55:04.820 going to run it

00:55:05.280 and that's what

00:55:05.660 we're trying to

00:55:06.060 stick to.

00:55:06.660 The government

00:55:07.320 needs to put out

00:55:08.640 a statement of

00:55:09.280 how they're going

00:55:10.000 to operate the

00:55:10.640 statutory inquiry.

00:55:11.700 It needs to be

00:55:12.180 transparent, as we

00:55:13.300 know.

00:55:14.080 Transparency is

00:55:15.440 good.

00:55:16.940 Opacity is bad.

00:55:19.500 So I think let's

00:55:22.100 see what they

00:55:22.480 come up with.

00:55:23.120 I mean, it's as

00:55:24.060 simple as that,

00:55:24.740 really.

00:55:24.900 If you get the

00:55:25.580 terms of reference

00:55:26.340 wrong, you're

00:55:27.700 never going to

00:55:28.060 get a fair

00:55:28.800 inquiry.

00:55:29.380 And I think,

00:55:30.060 take a look at

00:55:30.700 COVID.

00:55:31.720 The COVID inquiry

00:55:32.560 for me was a

00:55:33.180 farce.

00:55:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:34.560 It was never

00:55:35.160 going to come up

00:55:35.840 with the right

00:55:36.340 decision.

00:55:37.620 It's not looked

00:55:38.460 at everything it

00:55:39.000 should have

00:55:39.260 looked at.

00:55:40.520 And again, I

00:55:41.240 think the state,

00:55:42.500 the state, as I

00:55:43.700 said in the

00:55:45.360 TCW interview

00:55:46.460 which I sent

00:55:47.040 you, the state

00:55:48.580 is now the

00:55:48.960 enemy of the

00:55:49.380 people and you

00:55:50.000 only have to

00:55:50.520 look at the

00:55:51.480 post office

00:55:52.120 inquiry.

00:55:53.140 Post office

00:55:53.840 submasters still

00:55:55.080 haven't been

00:55:55.480 paid the

00:55:55.980 compensation, which

00:55:56.940 is a disgrace.

00:55:59.180 People haven't

00:55:59.880 been compensated

00:56:01.080 for the

00:56:01.560 infected blood

00:56:02.260 scandal, for

00:56:02.840 the Gulf war

00:56:03.640 jabs, for

00:56:04.280 almost anything

00:56:05.680 the state

00:56:06.140 touches, it

00:56:06.740 makes bad

00:56:07.360 decisions and

00:56:08.140 then it

00:56:08.440 fails to

00:56:09.220 either accept

00:56:11.060 the fact they

00:56:11.600 were bad, and

00:56:12.220 I think COVID

00:56:12.800 is an example

00:56:13.420 of this, and

00:56:14.380 then put right

00:56:15.180 what they got

00:56:16.340 wrong.

00:56:16.900 So the

00:56:17.440 underwriting theme

00:56:19.160 of all of this

00:56:19.800 is a lack of

00:56:20.500 accountability.

00:56:21.900 Totally.

00:56:23.420 Totally.

00:56:24.440 Do you see any

00:56:25.780 accountability?

00:56:26.240 No, none at

00:56:26.900 all.

00:56:27.700 The idea that the

00:56:29.260 rape gangs, for

00:56:29.980 example, could

00:56:30.500 operate for decades

00:56:31.500 unchecked and

00:56:33.100 not one police

00:56:33.960 officer or

00:56:34.540 councillor or

00:56:35.740 MP has been

00:56:37.060 held to account

00:56:37.620 for this at

00:56:38.200 all, is just

00:56:39.900 shocking.

00:56:41.100 Absolutely

00:56:41.600 shocking.

00:56:42.300 And then you

00:56:42.880 juxtapose that

00:56:43.840 against the

00:56:45.120 police taking

00:56:46.300 seriously two

00:56:47.100 palpably false

00:56:47.960 witness statements

00:56:48.640 against me,

00:56:50.280 wasting a load

00:56:50.960 of police time,

00:56:52.340 and arguably,

00:56:54.460 if they treated

00:56:56.920 it differently, I

00:56:58.340 could have been

00:56:58.940 one of those

00:56:59.400 innocent men in

00:57:00.260 prison.

00:57:00.820 I mean, that's

00:57:01.600 pretty frightening.

00:57:02.220 And there are

00:57:04.180 so many people

00:57:04.760 in the country

00:57:05.240 who are on

00:57:05.620 the wrong

00:57:05.960 side of the

00:57:06.500 state, and

00:57:07.600 they find

00:57:08.000 themselves getting

00:57:08.480 persecuted.

00:57:09.700 If I may, I'd

00:57:11.540 like to ask you

00:57:12.560 about Tommy

00:57:13.000 Robinson, because

00:57:15.000 he is intending

00:57:17.240 to do a rally

00:57:17.820 in September this

00:57:18.960 year, and I

00:57:20.420 think he's made

00:57:21.200 it very public

00:57:21.700 that he's asked

00:57:22.140 you to appear.

00:57:23.480 What are your

00:57:24.120 thoughts on that?

00:57:25.780 Well, look, I

00:57:26.940 praised Tommy

00:57:27.840 Robinson for what

00:57:28.740 he did on the

00:57:29.280 rape gangs, and

00:57:30.220 Gordon Rayner at

00:57:31.180 Telegraph got

00:57:31.880 upset, because I

00:57:32.940 think he felt

00:57:34.040 that was not

00:57:34.900 justified.

00:57:35.560 And I don't

00:57:36.760 agree with him.

00:57:37.400 I think if

00:57:37.980 somebody's done

00:57:38.700 something valuable

00:57:41.000 and has been

00:57:41.620 proved correct,

00:57:42.540 which Tommy

00:57:43.280 Robinson has, you

00:57:45.100 should give him

00:57:45.660 credit for that.

00:57:48.360 I don't quite

00:57:49.400 understand why the

00:57:50.560 state has this

00:57:51.520 pathological hatred

00:57:53.480 for Tommy

00:57:54.080 Robinson.

00:57:54.500 Robinson, I

00:57:54.900 don't know much

00:57:56.740 about him.

00:57:57.200 I've never met

00:57:57.820 him.

00:57:58.380 I've never spoken

00:57:59.040 to him.

00:57:59.340 He's a nice

00:57:59.600 enough guy.

00:58:00.740 I quite like him.

00:58:01.760 I think he cares

00:58:03.060 about his country,

00:58:04.240 clearly.

00:58:04.900 Yeah.

00:58:06.880 But all

00:58:08.380 politicians seem

00:58:09.460 to want to avoid

00:58:10.900 him like the plague.

00:58:12.700 So I think, I

00:58:13.840 think from my

00:58:15.060 point of view, I'm

00:58:16.380 grateful for what

00:58:17.720 he's done in that

00:58:18.520 respect.

00:58:18.920 I think what I

00:58:21.860 want to do is

00:58:22.420 unify.

00:58:23.500 And what I will

00:58:24.780 do, and I'm

00:58:25.440 not, you're quite

00:58:27.060 right, he's asked

00:58:27.800 if I would speak,

00:58:28.880 but I've got to do

00:58:30.680 and work out what

00:58:31.780 is the best course

00:58:33.200 to unity, I

00:58:35.700 think.

00:58:36.800 I understand.

00:58:36.980 And I, unity is

00:58:39.140 the most important

00:58:40.160 thing.

00:58:40.780 We want to avoid

00:58:41.900 division.

00:58:43.500 Division is not

00:58:44.980 going to help us

00:58:45.520 now.

00:58:46.420 No, I

00:58:46.960 understand.

00:58:47.280 Because Tommy

00:58:49.060 Robinson is used

00:58:50.840 by the state and

00:58:52.420 the political class

00:58:53.400 as a totemic

00:58:55.400 figure in the

00:58:57.900 resentment and

00:58:59.320 the just

00:59:01.160 resentment that the

00:59:02.500 working class has

00:59:03.460 against the

00:59:04.200 liberal establishment.

00:59:05.880 They are the ones

00:59:06.980 who have borne the

00:59:07.680 burden of being

00:59:09.140 the victims of the

00:59:10.340 rape gangs.

00:59:11.260 They're the ones

00:59:11.660 who have borne the

00:59:12.140 burden of the

00:59:12.780 uncontrolled mass

00:59:13.520 immigration that no

00:59:14.200 one asked for.

00:59:15.060 Taking their jobs

00:59:15.740 away.

00:59:16.060 Absolutely.

00:59:16.440 But not just the

00:59:17.720 jobs as well.

00:59:18.800 The social struggle

00:59:20.360 that it's been to

00:59:21.820 find your community

00:59:22.800 displaced and

00:59:23.680 replaced with a new

00:59:24.520 community that often

00:59:26.080 isn't very polite to

00:59:28.100 you is actually kind of

00:59:29.100 hostile towards you.

00:59:30.280 I met a woman from

00:59:31.740 Hull when I was doing

00:59:32.740 my MEP campaign in

00:59:33.860 Devon and she said,

00:59:35.780 well, I had to flee

00:59:36.640 because I felt the

00:59:37.560 Pakistani community was

00:59:38.520 racist towards us.

00:59:39.920 They just hated us.

00:59:41.160 And it's these sort of

00:59:43.420 low-level daily

00:59:45.040 interactions that you

00:59:46.140 don't hear about

00:59:47.380 because they don't

00:59:47.700 make the news but

00:59:48.440 make life very

00:59:49.340 unpleasant.

00:59:50.300 Well, for those

00:59:50.660 people, Carl, I

00:59:51.480 would say for those

00:59:53.060 people who don't

00:59:54.800 know it, people

00:59:56.040 should go and study

00:59:56.900 the history of

00:59:57.520 Lebanon.

00:59:58.140 Yes, absolutely.

00:59:59.040 Because Lebanon is

00:59:59.820 your, that's your

01:00:01.120 playbook.

01:00:01.720 And I think that's

01:00:02.640 why they hate Tommy

01:00:03.520 Robinson so much

01:00:04.260 because in him all

01:00:06.200 of the nexus of this

01:00:07.500 betrayal is made

01:00:09.000 evident.

01:00:09.280 he's become a

01:00:10.460 kind of totemic

01:00:11.020 figure for the

01:00:11.680 working class to

01:00:12.960 stand against the

01:00:14.380 current paradigm and

01:00:15.500 say, this is what

01:00:16.600 you've done to us.

01:00:18.360 And essentially, if

01:00:19.720 they say, oh, okay,

01:00:20.780 yeah, good point, then

01:00:22.060 they admit that

01:00:23.460 they're all culpable

01:00:24.180 for all of the

01:00:25.360 horrors that have

01:00:26.160 been visited on the

01:00:26.880 British people.

01:00:28.300 And Tommy really,

01:00:29.820 his crime is being

01:00:31.120 correct about all of

01:00:32.700 this and presenting

01:00:33.580 it to them.

01:00:33.920 I think it was in

01:00:34.480 Luton, wasn't it?

01:00:35.240 He saw it happening

01:00:36.400 in Luton.

01:00:37.780 One of his cousins.

01:00:38.260 Very early on.

01:00:38.860 One of his cousins.

01:00:39.420 Early 2000s, yeah.

01:00:40.580 Was a victim of it.

01:00:42.880 And he's become a

01:00:44.120 kind of collective

01:00:44.660 lightning rod.

01:00:45.060 So I totally

01:00:46.960 understand that

01:00:47.860 you're reluctant

01:00:49.700 to be divisive

01:00:51.280 over it.

01:00:51.640 Because to the

01:00:53.040 establishment, he

01:00:54.240 does represent the

01:00:55.880 ghosts of all of

01:00:56.700 the victims.

01:00:58.060 And so...

01:00:58.600 I don't think we

01:00:59.360 want to let the

01:01:00.060 establishment divide

01:01:00.940 and rule us.

01:01:01.740 And I therefore

01:01:02.500 don't think we want

01:01:03.320 to give them any

01:01:04.000 ammunition with which

01:01:05.140 to do that.

01:01:05.660 So I think

01:01:06.780 we have to

01:01:07.660 be sensible

01:01:10.700 and unifying.

01:01:13.080 Yes.

01:01:13.720 But I also...

01:01:15.320 And I'm not

01:01:16.540 trying to suggest

01:01:17.340 that you should

01:01:17.780 or shouldn't do

01:01:18.300 anything.

01:01:19.220 But I think

01:01:20.440 that allowing

01:01:22.260 them to control

01:01:23.660 what rallies

01:01:25.660 you speak at

01:01:26.520 is also

01:01:27.200 playing into

01:01:28.700 the divide and

01:01:29.300 rule a little bit.

01:01:30.560 So it's just

01:01:31.100 something to think

01:01:31.680 about.

01:01:31.840 I'm not saying

01:01:32.360 you should do

01:01:32.780 anything or

01:01:33.220 anything like

01:01:33.560 that.

01:01:34.460 And I'm not

01:01:35.100 saying there's

01:01:36.200 a time and

01:01:36.620 a place for

01:01:37.100 everything.

01:01:37.700 And so I'm

01:01:39.820 sure you'll make

01:01:40.360 sensible decisions.

01:01:41.100 I will listen to

01:01:41.140 your wise counsel,

01:01:42.320 Carl.

01:01:42.660 I appreciate that.

01:01:43.300 I'm sure you'll

01:01:43.780 make sensible

01:01:44.180 decisions.

01:01:45.200 But while this

01:01:46.240 is still a

01:01:46.600 consideration,

01:01:47.520 the establishment

01:01:48.000 is still dividing

01:01:49.040 and ruling us

01:01:49.800 under that thing.

01:01:51.000 So that's all

01:01:51.780 I'll say on it.

01:01:54.000 Right, so what's

01:01:55.180 next?

01:01:55.860 What are you doing

01:01:56.760 next?

01:01:57.940 Well, I'm so

01:01:59.840 busy that I can

01:02:01.660 hardly sit down

01:02:02.520 and I made this

01:02:04.320 joyful visit to

01:02:05.200 Swindon,

01:02:05.700 especially to see

01:02:06.300 you this morning

01:02:06.920 on my way down.

01:02:08.400 I very much

01:02:08.980 appreciate it.

01:02:11.860 So, yeah, I

01:02:13.800 mean, there's

01:02:14.180 lots going on.

01:02:15.160 I mean, we have

01:02:15.680 so much going on.

01:02:17.020 We've got a very

01:02:17.460 small team.

01:02:18.100 I think as we

01:02:19.440 get what I call

01:02:20.340 the ammo into

01:02:21.220 restore, so we

01:02:23.060 can start to

01:02:24.220 develop policy

01:02:26.260 more deeply.

01:02:27.460 And I think

01:02:28.040 very often people

01:02:29.520 in Parliament just

01:02:30.540 talk and then

01:02:31.640 don't deliver.

01:02:33.380 And what we

01:02:34.020 want to do is

01:02:34.540 we want to have

01:02:35.560 the ability to

01:02:36.760 actually develop

01:02:37.380 the policy rather

01:02:38.100 than just putting

01:02:38.640 out a little

01:02:39.180 header.

01:02:40.680 We need to know

01:02:41.420 a bit more of

01:02:41.960 the details.

01:02:42.440 So that's one

01:02:43.220 thing we're very

01:02:43.880 keen to do.

01:02:46.060 We want to

01:02:47.120 protect or we

01:02:48.940 want to develop

01:02:49.660 private prosecutions.

01:02:50.920 I think private

01:02:51.540 prosecutions, a bit

01:02:53.660 like having a jury

01:02:56.040 trial, it's a very

01:02:58.180 powerful tool.

01:03:00.360 People don't use

01:03:01.260 private prosecutions

01:03:02.440 very much, but I

01:03:04.540 think they are

01:03:06.100 particularly powerful

01:03:07.140 and what we want

01:03:09.040 to also do is set

01:03:10.160 up a whistleblowing

01:03:11.600 unit.

01:03:12.300 Because I think now

01:03:13.200 with the size of

01:03:14.540 the state, we're

01:03:15.300 already getting

01:03:16.040 people who, because

01:03:17.400 there are a lot of

01:03:17.900 decent people in the

01:03:18.700 country, even those

01:03:20.360 who are indentured

01:03:22.260 into the status

01:03:23.580 system.

01:03:24.240 But they care

01:03:25.440 about their country

01:03:26.080 too, but they're

01:03:26.740 trapped.

01:03:27.560 They've got

01:03:28.080 families, they've

01:03:28.720 got responsibilities

01:03:30.320 and they can't

01:03:31.440 necessarily kick

01:03:32.200 against the system.

01:03:33.460 That's what the

01:03:34.000 system relies on.

01:03:34.960 That's why it

01:03:35.400 doesn't like high

01:03:36.320 minded, independent,

01:03:38.760 wealthy individuals

01:03:39.580 who can challenge

01:03:40.380 the status quo.

01:03:42.220 So we want to set

01:03:43.140 up a whistleblower

01:03:43.700 and if we can start

01:03:44.420 to identify where

01:03:46.840 the state is being

01:03:48.140 fraudulent or

01:03:50.180 where it is breaking

01:03:51.860 the law, where it

01:03:53.480 is not serving the

01:03:54.420 interests of the

01:03:54.860 British people, we

01:03:55.560 might decide that

01:03:56.480 we're going to take

01:03:57.100 out some private

01:03:57.720 prosecutions.

01:03:58.660 We might not.

01:04:00.120 But if we've got

01:04:01.100 the tools and we've

01:04:02.340 got the ammunition,

01:04:05.000 we can start to

01:04:06.860 affect the change.

01:04:08.280 That's why Restore

01:04:09.640 Britain is so

01:04:10.400 important as a

01:04:11.600 movement.

01:04:12.160 Yeah, I agree.

01:04:13.840 So I think, look,

01:04:15.500 there's lots of

01:04:16.120 stuff.

01:04:16.780 And again, this is

01:04:19.260 what it's taught me

01:04:21.580 yet.

01:04:21.820 I mean, even at

01:04:23.320 67, there's a lot

01:04:24.800 I don't know.

01:04:27.000 A bit like the

01:04:27.940 reform guys running

01:04:29.980 the Warwickshire

01:04:30.680 County Council at

01:04:31.620 the age of 18 with

01:04:32.660 a budget of 400

01:04:33.640 million pounds.

01:04:35.400 When I was 18, I

01:04:36.520 thought I knew all

01:04:37.300 the answers.

01:04:37.940 Now I'm 67, I

01:04:39.000 now know I knew

01:04:40.300 none of them.

01:04:41.260 So the answer is

01:04:42.200 this guy probably

01:04:43.080 thinks he knows what

01:04:43.860 he's doing, but

01:04:44.560 trust me, he

01:04:45.200 doesn't.

01:04:46.180 In the same way

01:04:46.960 that MPs in

01:04:47.760 Parliament don't.

01:04:49.260 So, look, this is

01:04:50.440 to some extent a

01:04:52.860 learning curve.

01:04:54.560 And I think this

01:04:56.460 is another sort of

01:04:59.360 arrogant mistake that

01:05:00.600 politicians make is

01:05:01.680 when people fire a

01:05:02.600 question out and

01:05:03.200 they go, we're going

01:05:03.660 to do boom, boom,

01:05:04.180 boom, boom.

01:05:04.740 Half the time, they

01:05:05.800 haven't got a clue.

01:05:06.580 So why say you've

01:05:07.600 got a clue?

01:05:09.000 If you're sound,

01:05:10.860 you're rather like

01:05:12.020 water flows downhill,

01:05:13.340 you will find the

01:05:14.220 solution.

01:05:14.600 But you don't

01:05:15.900 always know where

01:05:17.480 you're going to

01:05:17.880 find it or how

01:05:18.920 you're going to

01:05:19.360 deliver that

01:05:19.920 solution.

01:05:20.660 So I don't, again,

01:05:23.040 you're quite keen on

01:05:24.800 we've got to have a

01:05:26.700 plan.

01:05:27.200 No, no, no.

01:05:27.760 I have to ask.

01:05:29.440 I have to ask.

01:05:30.400 I'm less clear that

01:05:32.680 there is a plan.

01:05:33.720 I think the plan

01:05:34.440 will evolve.

01:05:35.260 It is evolving fast.

01:05:37.040 If it helps.

01:05:38.240 It's just my job as

01:05:39.320 an interviewer to ask

01:05:40.120 the questions, right?

01:05:41.420 But I'm actually very

01:05:42.440 much like you.

01:05:42.960 I didn't have a plan.

01:05:43.900 I've never had a

01:05:44.460 plan.

01:05:46.380 It's all here.

01:05:47.320 Well, I know, but

01:05:47.820 the results here.

01:05:48.820 I know, but it

01:05:49.280 wasn't planned.

01:05:50.080 But the thing is,

01:05:50.740 this is the old

01:05:51.240 English way.

01:05:51.800 We muddle through.

01:05:52.560 We look at where

01:05:53.180 we are.

01:05:53.720 What would actually

01:05:54.400 be the right thing

01:05:55.080 to do?

01:05:55.360 And the right thing

01:05:55.960 tends to pay

01:05:56.480 dividends.

01:05:57.360 So you just do the

01:05:58.760 best you can with

01:05:59.500 what you have.

01:06:00.320 And suddenly you

01:06:01.320 realize that actually

01:06:02.160 things, you look back

01:06:03.240 and go, oh, no,

01:06:03.920 things turn out

01:06:04.740 rather well, actually.

01:06:06.600 Well, a bit like a

01:06:07.320 farmer might have a

01:06:08.080 plan to grow a field

01:06:09.020 of wheat like he did

01:06:09.780 this year in my case.

01:06:11.080 Yeah.

01:06:11.360 And then it doesn't

01:06:11.960 rain.

01:06:12.600 So you don't grow

01:06:13.540 much wheat.

01:06:14.080 Well, at least your

01:06:14.560 fields aren't waterlogged.

01:06:15.560 That's the great

01:06:16.120 thing about farming.

01:06:17.040 It keeps you humble.

01:06:18.060 You cannot have

01:06:19.980 these highfalutin

01:06:21.580 plans that then

01:06:22.380 come to nothing

01:06:22.980 because Mother

01:06:24.060 Nature has a way

01:06:24.940 of bringing you

01:06:26.280 back down to size.

01:06:27.400 And I think that's

01:06:28.260 why I like farming

01:06:29.080 so much.

01:06:29.720 That's interesting.

01:06:30.220 Thank you so much

01:06:30.840 for coming in.

01:06:32.380 Obviously, everyone

01:06:33.380 go and join

01:06:34.300 Restore Britain.

01:06:35.500 Follow Restore

01:06:36.140 Britain on Twitter.

01:06:36.960 Follow Rupert

01:06:37.680 on Twitter.

01:06:38.480 And go and help

01:06:38.940 out and do

01:06:40.040 whatever it is you

01:06:40.620 can.

01:06:40.880 I'm sure any

01:06:41.820 number of

01:06:42.220 volunteers.

01:06:42.640 We're getting

01:06:43.080 lots of offers

01:06:43.820 of help.

01:06:44.320 Again, that's

01:06:44.800 why we need

01:06:45.320 a structure

01:06:45.800 to start

01:06:46.320 to garner

01:06:47.500 that as well.

01:06:48.460 So I think

01:06:49.460 the most important

01:06:50.120 thing now

01:06:50.720 is sign up.

01:06:52.600 Encourage your

01:06:53.080 family, your

01:06:53.660 friends, your

01:06:54.260 community.

01:06:55.280 Get everybody

01:06:55.720 to sign up.

01:06:56.500 If you share

01:06:57.100 the view

01:06:57.620 that you can

01:06:58.680 feel your

01:06:59.200 country slipping

01:06:59.920 through your

01:07:00.380 fingers,

01:07:01.220 that you want

01:07:01.840 it back,

01:07:02.620 that you want

01:07:03.320 to restore

01:07:04.080 Britain,

01:07:05.220 sign up.

01:07:05.720 I've signed

01:07:08.780 up on day

01:07:09.940 one.

01:07:10.880 Once we

01:07:11.460 reach a

01:07:11.780 critical mass.

01:07:12.980 And the

01:07:13.280 thing is as

01:07:13.800 well, I

01:07:14.640 think what's

01:07:15.120 come through

01:07:15.920 on all of

01:07:16.520 this is that

01:07:17.160 it's a general

01:07:18.320 project of

01:07:18.940 accountability

01:07:19.440 for the

01:07:20.320 British people

01:07:20.940 because there

01:07:21.460 is no

01:07:22.400 accountability

01:07:22.780 in public

01:07:23.300 life.

01:07:23.740 And this

01:07:24.320 is really

01:07:24.760 the only

01:07:25.700 actual,

01:07:26.300 like you

01:07:26.480 say,

01:07:26.980 non-partisan,

01:07:28.160 non-divisive

01:07:29.160 project that

01:07:30.160 just works in

01:07:30.900 the favour

01:07:31.360 of the British

01:07:31.820 people to

01:07:33.480 hopefully bring

01:07:34.500 some sort

01:07:34.820 of

01:07:34.920 accountability.

01:07:36.040 But anyway,

01:07:36.600 thank you again

01:07:37.220 so much for

01:07:37.620 coming in and

01:07:38.500 we'll see you

01:07:39.240 in the future

01:07:39.800 hopefully.

01:07:40.420 Great to see

01:07:40.800 you again.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - July 11, 2025

Restore Britain ｜ Interview With Rupert Lowe MP

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Summary

Transcript