The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Breakdown of the Family ｜ Interview with Adam Coleman

00:00:00.080 Hello and welcome to this interview of The Lotus Seaters. Today I'm pleased to present to you Adam P. Coleman.

00:00:06.420 Thank you very much for being with us, Adam.

00:00:08.280 Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

00:00:09.900 You're welcome. It's been a pleasure and the podcast was really good.

00:00:13.420 Yes, I had a lot of fun.

00:00:15.280 And I really liked your contributions as well. Thank you.

00:00:17.980 So, people can find you on X. The handle is at wrongspeak and the account name is Adam B. Coleman, proud father in Imperfect Man.

00:00:28.240 Yes. And I think that this name sets sort of the tone of the conversation we're going to have that surrounds your book, The Children We Left Behind, whose subtitle is How Western Culture Rationalizes Family Separation and Ignores the Pain of Child Neglect.

00:00:49.220 So, that's a very interesting topic. It's a topic that comes close to heart to me because I'm Greek and Greek society is very much family oriented.

00:01:00.460 And I've seen all sorts of family drama in the wider family, but also in friends.

00:01:06.700 So, I do think that we're going to have a very interesting conversation.

00:01:11.640 So, let me ask you, what motivated you to write this book?

00:01:16.280 So, I started writing for different publications, major publications like the New York Post.

00:01:22.740 And I would see these different stories that would come up in the media.

00:01:27.400 And I always saw like a family element to it, whereas other people, they were focused on maybe the racial angle or they were focused on the guns.

00:01:37.220 You know, if it was about mass shootings, they were focused on the gun element.

00:01:40.900 But for me, I was like, well, how did that person get there, right?

00:01:44.380 How did that kid enter that school and shoot up people, right?

00:01:47.820 Is it about the guns or is it about years or decades of what happened to them?

00:01:54.220 And for many of these cases, they are coming from households that were broken apart, whether it be through divorce or maybe they were in a household where parents weren't married or something of that nature.

00:02:05.640 But there was clearly some sort of family separation.

00:02:08.260 On top of that, some sort of dysfunction within the home.

00:02:11.440 And then the output is, and these are things that are on the extreme, but the output ultimately resulted in this functional child taking a gun and killing people, right?

00:02:26.280 Which is an extreme type of response.

00:02:29.880 But these fringe things were actually happening throughout our society.

00:02:34.100 And these are the things that we talk about.

00:02:35.480 We tend to talk about things that are on the fringe.

00:02:37.620 And so for me, I'm like, well, the family element is a legit element to talk about.

00:02:43.360 How did these people end up in these positions?

00:02:46.620 And then part of it is my sensitivity to it because I grew up without my father.

00:02:52.680 And I know how it impacted me.

00:02:54.720 Granted, I was never incarcerated.

00:02:57.080 I didn't go in that particular route.

00:02:58.620 That's part of what I would say like the fringe.

00:03:01.540 But for me, it affected me where I could have easily.

00:03:04.260 I think if I lived in a different area, I could have been pulled into gangs.

00:03:09.000 If I was in a slightly different circumstance, I could have ended my life, right, through depression and things of that nature.

00:03:17.260 I was that vulnerable kid.

00:03:19.620 I just happened to not go down that path.

00:03:22.340 And so I wanted to use my story as a child and how family separation impacted me.

00:03:31.380 And I'm more common than not when it comes to these situations.

00:03:36.540 So it's not just the fringe.

00:03:39.120 Although the fringe element stems from some sort of family dysfunction, it's not just the fringe.

00:03:45.240 It's also people like myself, the kids who are essentially left behind, who maybe they aren't robbing you and they're not killing you, but they are suffering.

00:03:55.680 And they're struggling in society.

00:03:58.960 And if they're struggling and this number keeps increasing, then there's going to be even more people who are struggling.

00:04:06.160 And the fringes are going to grow.

00:04:08.100 So the way I see it is almost like a formula.

00:04:11.100 Like if you grow the problem, the fringes are only going to get bigger.

00:04:15.900 And I think we should talk about these things.

00:04:18.800 I think that if we're going to ultimately try to reduce or solve these fringe problems, we actually have to look at the family element.

00:04:29.480 Right.

00:04:30.080 So the family is supposed to be the basis of society.

00:04:33.840 Right.

00:04:34.280 A lot of theories in politics, for instance, treat society as the basic social unit.

00:04:39.640 And it looks to me, it seems to me that lately there has been a push towards viewing the state as a surrogate of the family.

00:04:48.800 Yeah.

00:04:49.500 But I've heard also from some studies that this can't happen.

00:04:53.680 And especially, even if you have people who have been, let's say, nurtured by the state, whatever that may mean, that they do feel a sort of element missing if they don't have an actual biological family.

00:05:10.380 Not the state, but the family.

00:05:12.660 And that this leads them down the problematic pathways you mentioned before.

00:05:21.820 Do you think that there is a wider push within the culture to treat the state as a surrogate of the family?

00:05:28.180 Yes, in some ways.

00:05:31.680 But then I go to the root of it is why.

00:05:35.540 If that's the case, why are people pushing the state to be more of a surrogate parent to children?

00:05:42.000 And we've seen that in the United States where the fight over what can be taught in schools, when the parents are saying, actually, I should be teaching my kids this.

00:05:53.760 And the state thinking, no, you can't teach it right.

00:05:56.360 We have to teach them.

00:05:57.520 We have to tell them about sexuality. 0.72

00:05:58.960 And it's like, no, I deserve the right to tell my child, introduce these things to my child, and tell them in an appropriate way, in a loving and caring way, and the state battling who should do these things.

00:06:13.360 But the question is to why.

00:06:15.060 Why are certain people fine with it?

00:06:17.640 And I think part of it has to do with an element of parental selfishness and parental laziness.

00:06:25.140 So if I let them do it, that allows me to do the things that I want to do, right?

00:06:33.700 It can be uncomfortable to talk about sexuality with your kids.

00:06:37.160 So I'm going to let them do it, right?

00:06:39.260 So that's a comfort for you, but it is beneficial for your child.

00:06:45.060 That's the thing.

00:06:46.280 It becomes a selfish want to avoid these topics, to not dive into these topics and offload it onto someone else.

00:06:55.140 Same thing when it comes to the growth of daycare centers throughout the United States.

00:07:01.120 I want to build my career.

00:07:03.060 I want to go to work.

00:07:04.300 And granted, some people have to.

00:07:06.360 Single-parent household, there's only one person that is able to work.

00:07:11.260 And so you automatically have to offload your child to someone.

00:07:15.840 Some people don't have family they can offload to.

00:07:17.940 In American culture especially, the extended family is becoming far more extended, distant.

00:07:26.780 My mother lives in a completely different state from where I live at now. 0.82

00:07:31.100 So even physically, the people are farther away.

00:07:35.920 But I do think that there's an element of offloading to others because they don't want to do it.

00:07:42.580 And it's as simple as that.

00:07:46.200 Why don't they want to do it?

00:07:48.160 For a variety of reasons.

00:07:49.720 But ultimately, it's because they don't want to do it.

00:07:52.980 Not that they don't...

00:07:54.920 Basically, they don't see the benefit of them doing the thing they don't want to do for their child.

00:07:59.700 And they're willing to turn a blind eye as to the possibility that their child is going to be misled.

00:08:08.100 And they want to believe that the state is going to do the right thing.

00:08:12.120 They want to believe this because if they believe it, then they get to continue doing the thing that they want to do.

00:08:20.380 So I think it's that element of it.

00:08:23.480 They don't see the honor in taking hold of these things and holding it sacred, that they're the ones who teach their children morality.

00:08:31.760 Not some teacher in some school who may not share your morality, who may not share your principles.

00:08:38.020 And so the parents are supposed to be the ones who are enforcing a moral set, a code for their child to adhere to.

00:08:45.720 And despite if everyone else is a maniac, you're not supposed to be a maniac because we expect you to become something much better than that.

00:08:54.720 But if all they're doing is following the herd and they're being led by a shepherd who's leading them off a cliff, they're going to go off a cliff.

00:09:05.880 Right.

00:09:06.580 So the subtitle of your book is How Western Culture Rationalizes Family Separation and Ignores the Pain of Child Neglect.

00:09:14.000 So it seems to me we could divide the conversation into two further sections.

00:09:20.000 One dealing with the family and then one dealing specifically with children.

00:09:25.260 And then I have some extra follow-up questions.

00:09:27.380 But I think the best way to go about it is to start with an ideal in both cases and then show how most families deviate from that ideal.

00:09:38.740 And then talk about ideal child-rearing, child-bearing, and also how modern families deviate from that ideal.

00:09:50.500 So as far as the family is concerned, how do you define a family?

00:09:57.000 And that's kind of weird, but we have to ask these days.

00:10:00.580 How do you define a family and how do you define an ideal family?

00:10:04.680 And the reason I'm saying this is because a lot of these notions can be used descriptively as well as normatively.

00:10:12.820 So you could say that of a biological mother that no real mother would act this way.

00:10:19.460 So there's an idealizing element there.

00:10:21.560 So that's why I want to say that when I'm asking what is the family, I'm asking what are the normative elements you associate with a family?

00:10:31.420 In a sense, what is the ideal family?

00:10:33.540 I would say the ideal family would be, and we have to stress ideal.

00:10:41.440 Of course.

00:10:41.780 Ideal family would be one that started with family planning, right?

00:10:48.920 Not someone ended up pregnant, I guess we'll just shotgun wedding this, and then just things just kind of come about.

00:10:56.580 It's with the idea that before the family is formed, we are having these discussions.

00:11:01.540 And so the person that I'm going to engage in sexual acts with wants the same thing that I want.

00:11:08.480 And we are planning a family together, not rolling this from one relationship into maybe possible marriage and things like that.

00:11:18.180 It's done with purpose.

00:11:20.640 And so the family actually starts before the family actually is created.

00:11:27.240 So the ideal family starts with two adults who are discussing what's their religious principles?

00:11:37.540 Is there going to be some sort of religious principles taught to their children?

00:11:43.500 What's the morals between them?

00:11:46.200 Do they agree in these things?

00:11:47.600 Is there a political element that they have some sort of commonality?

00:11:50.460 All of these things need to be discussed.

00:11:51.940 How many children?

00:11:53.120 Where do you want to live?

00:11:55.760 Career-wise, it's a wide range of things that you are planning for the potential family that's coming about.

00:12:01.860 Then there is marriage, which improves the likeliness of a secure household more so than a non-married couple, right? 0.91

00:12:20.680 Because there's now skin in the game.

00:12:22.100 Obviously, divorce exists and things like that, but it is fundamentally different from going from having a girlfriend or having a boyfriend to having a husband or having a wife.

00:12:32.000 It's a fundamental difference of ownership and responsibility between the two.

00:12:36.920 And we shouldn't run away from that responsibility.

00:12:40.600 Then the children are created.

00:12:43.000 The children are created in a foundation.

00:12:45.920 The marriage is a foundation for family, for children to exist in.

00:12:50.420 And so by them being created within a foundation, they can be properly raised, knowing that there's ownership between the mother and the father and how they treat each other and what they want.

00:13:05.420 And there's a planning.

00:13:06.960 You're not accidents.

00:13:07.960 We wanted you.

00:13:09.280 We have an idea as to how we want to raise you.

00:13:12.540 So these are ideal elements.

00:13:14.240 It's basically what I'm saying is we're creating a wider foundation of process of actual family planning structure so that when the children are born, they're not born into accidental circumstances where they kind of have to figure things out as they go along.

00:13:30.620 And then one person's like, well, I didn't realize this.

00:13:33.840 And the next person is like, well, I actually wanted this.

00:13:36.200 And then that's when the family becomes about the two adults who can't agree on things because they never had these discussions.

00:13:42.220 And then that's when the family separates.

00:13:45.260 Even if they were to get married, divorce becomes an option.

00:13:48.260 It becomes about the adults and things like that.

00:13:51.360 It's like anything else.

00:13:52.640 If there's communication from the very beginning, we know what we're getting into.

00:13:57.820 And if communication from the very beginning is like we're of two different timelines as far as what we want, two different fields of thought, we should not get together.

00:14:08.560 We should not create a family together.

00:14:10.060 And that's what I see more often than not is the accidental family where it's, well, kids are being formed and then, you know, or we've been together for four years.

00:14:24.580 I guess we should get married.

00:14:25.680 And, you know, it's these people who are just rolling one circumstance into the next circumstance, no thought in mind.

00:14:34.280 And even if they end up married, they end up married to the wrong person because they never talked about these things.

00:14:40.300 They actually don't want the same things.

00:14:43.280 Or if they don't have an answer for the things that they want, they probably shouldn't get married yet.

00:14:48.220 Right.

00:14:48.860 So.

00:14:50.660 I think that's the ideal circumstance that I would want kids to be brought in.

00:14:55.960 Do you think that there is a tendency to not discuss these very issues?

00:15:01.300 Yes.

00:15:01.740 And I don't fully know if this is a cultural thing or not, but I have seen where everyone is uncomfortable being honest.

00:15:13.300 We were kind of talking about that before.

00:15:15.860 This fear of truth, because, you know, I can speak from a guy's perspective.

00:15:20.900 If I tell her the truth, she may leave.

00:15:23.880 And so I'm just going to sugarcoat things or I'm going to say the things that I think she wants to hear rather than being honest.

00:15:30.360 So we never actually get to that point of truth of, well, actually, I do want these many children or I don't want you to work or whatever it might be.

00:15:41.180 And there's a lot to respect about being truthful in a relationship.

00:15:48.120 But I think culturally, it's more of a feminized attempt.

00:15:52.600 Women tend to be more socially acclimated. 1.00

00:15:56.020 They worry about social dynamics far more than men do.

00:15:58.980 Men tend to be, or not tend to be, men can be more disagreeable than women. 1.00

00:16:03.680 Right.

00:16:03.920 Women want more cohesion. 1.00

00:16:05.000 And so if men are being told to be slightly feminine in their interactions, including within relationships, then we're getting more feminized men who are never getting towards the truth.

00:16:16.980 And they're becoming less respectable.

00:16:19.020 And they're getting outcomes that are less favorable because no one is talking about the hard thing.

00:16:23.820 At some point, someone has to talk about the hard thing.

00:16:26.820 Both people can't be just whimsical.

00:16:29.580 Right.

00:16:29.980 And I think we need more of that.

00:16:33.260 We need to have more hard truths when it comes to family creation.

00:16:37.640 So, and that's the thing for me as a young man who grew up without his father and growing up with his mother and sister, is that I realized late in my life that I was exhibiting much of that.

00:16:52.040 And I was also fueled by fear of rejection because my father rejected me and that sense of rejection is something like I didn't want.

00:17:04.840 So, if you're afraid that people are going to leave you, you're going to tend to say things that you think they want to hear because you don't want them to go.

00:17:10.780 And by doing that, you're actually increasing the likeliness that they're going to leave you because they don't respect you because they don't want that.

00:17:20.260 Women want men who are honest with them, who are truthful with them.

00:17:25.900 And that's the type of person that they respect.

00:17:28.720 So, I do think we need more honesty when it comes to family creation.

00:17:33.660 So, I tend to think of two kinds of behaviors, the combative or competitive behaviors on the one hand, and the more reconciliatory behaviors on the other.

00:17:45.800 And it seems to me that things can go too far towards either side.

00:17:52.940 Correct.

00:17:53.640 And we do need a balance.

00:17:54.900 And what you're describing is, in a way, a lack of disagreeableness that leads people to be overly reconciliatory.

00:18:03.720 Yeah.

00:18:03.920 But on the other hand, I think that we do see the other extreme.

00:18:07.220 We do see people who don't want to reconcile on anything.

00:18:12.040 Yeah.

00:18:12.260 And enter into relationships thinking that I'm not going to compromise about anything because I may be compromising about all sorts of things during my weekly life.

00:18:26.720 My relationship is something I don't want to compromise on.

00:18:29.980 Right.

00:18:30.080 And that leads people to not practice several reconciliatory traits that seem to me absolutely necessary to maintaining a family.

00:18:41.360 Because if a family is, it is a society.

00:18:44.560 It's, in a sense, the prime pillar of society.

00:18:48.320 Right.

00:18:49.240 Any kind of society does involve conflicts and requires a form of conflict resolution.

00:18:55.020 Right.

00:18:55.260 So, I would say that I see also people who try to avoid conflict, but also people who are really, who want to bring about conflict and try to avoid any kind of reconciliation.

00:19:06.800 What would you say goes behind that aspect of the problem?

00:19:12.940 Well, that's stubbornness.

00:19:15.100 And that is a sense of always needing to be right.

00:19:18.720 It's one thing to say, here are the things that I want.

00:19:21.920 Right.

00:19:22.800 Does that match up with you?

00:19:25.100 Yeah.

00:19:25.640 And that is a sense of, are we compromising?

00:19:28.680 That's partnership.

00:19:30.200 Right.

00:19:30.760 It's another distinct thing to say, these are the things that I want.

00:19:34.380 And if you don't want it, then too bad.

00:19:37.720 That's more of an authoritarian position.

00:19:40.280 And when it comes to any relationship, they're give and takes.

00:19:44.640 Right.

00:19:45.240 But that requires humility.

00:19:47.840 And you have to say, okay, maybe their idea is actually a better idea.

00:19:52.140 I never heard that perspective.

00:19:55.020 Maybe this approach is not all the way right.

00:19:58.700 It's a little bit to the left.

00:20:00.260 You know, there has to be some sort of compassionate understanding while at the same time being honest about what you're comfortable with.

00:20:09.640 So if there are certain things that you're a hard line on, then you should stick to that.

00:20:14.600 Right.

00:20:15.160 I am not okay.

00:20:16.220 Like, for example, if, let's say, children aren't born, but you're with someone, and they're like, well, I'm perfectly fine with transing my kid.

00:20:24.020 Well, my hard line is, you do not trans children. 1.00

00:20:27.680 And so I can't compromise from that position.

00:20:30.720 And that is something that is a deal breaker.

00:20:33.900 Right?

00:20:34.340 A red line.

00:20:35.220 It's a red line.

00:20:36.060 And you can't compromise from that position.

00:20:38.260 That's an extreme example.

00:20:40.160 But there may be many things within a relationship where you're like, this is a hard position for me.

00:20:44.360 And you're going to have to compromise, or we can't move forward.

00:20:49.900 But maybe they're willing to compromise on that thing.

00:20:53.240 But there are other things that you're willing to compromise.

00:20:56.040 Like, there are always some give and takes.

00:20:59.000 But I think you have to have a relationship where you respect each other.

00:21:02.380 And there are areas, I'll just use my relationship with my wife. 1.00

00:21:06.420 There are areas where my wife is strong and I'm weak, and vice versa.

00:21:10.420 And so we recognize those things.

00:21:12.440 And she likes when I make decisions, because I tend to be right.

00:21:18.380 And she will say, like, you're right.

00:21:20.820 Like, she'll come out and say that.

00:21:22.340 So she likes my decision making.

00:21:24.140 But for her, her organization skills are top notch.

00:21:28.800 And so I lean on her for organizing.

00:21:31.560 Right?

00:21:31.820 Because that's my weakness.

00:21:32.820 But it takes a bit of humility to say, I'm not a good organizer.

00:21:37.320 But she is.

00:21:38.280 And I'm going to lean on her.

00:21:39.240 So there's give and takes as far as strengths and weaknesses between the sexes.

00:21:44.600 One example of what I was talking before and where I'm trying to get at is modern culture and some aspects in it that lead people into not practicing those reconciliator behaviors.

00:21:59.080 And one example I can think of is dating apps.

00:22:02.360 Yeah.

00:22:02.600 It seems to me that the illusion of endless choice of partners leads a lot of young people, or a lot of people who use those apps, because they aren't necessarily young, all of them, to constantly break up every time they don't like something.

00:22:19.880 Which isn't something that you would expect people of a previous age to do to that extent.

00:22:27.140 So would you say that technology is sort of guilty of leading people down to this path where they seem to be a bit more narcissistic or a bit, let's say, self-centered in an imbalanced way?

00:22:44.820 Yes, but to give a little bit of grace.

00:22:49.140 And I have a theory as to like, because a lot of people complain about the apps, right?

00:22:54.080 Because they're not, for many people, it is very, very difficult for them to have long-lasting relationships based on an app where you're essentially a name, a face, an age, and a profile to, you know, essentialize your life.

00:23:09.340 And the reason why it's difficult is because everyone's dating a stranger.

00:23:15.000 And so what we've done is we've become, especially in the United States, we work 30 minutes away or more.

00:23:24.140 We don't know who our neighbors are.

00:23:26.160 Our families are disconnected.

00:23:27.360 So everyone is essentially a stranger.

00:23:29.260 And then we enter the world of apps where everyone is a stranger.

00:23:33.020 And what we're missing is social proof.

00:23:34.900 So you don't have someone that you can be like, oh, you know who this person is.

00:23:41.700 You know who Bob is.

00:23:42.700 Is Bob a nice guy?

00:23:44.340 Yeah, Bob is a nice guy.

00:23:46.100 Oh, okay.

00:23:46.740 So I'm more comfortable going on a date with Bob because you know Bob and you know Bob's history and you've interacted with him.

00:23:55.380 All right.

00:23:55.820 I feel more comfort going on a date with Bob.

00:23:58.840 There's some social proofing there.

00:24:00.500 Bob, because Bob knows your friend, is less likely to ghost you, to mistreat you, and things like that because there's social ramifications between the two.

00:24:10.920 But if there is no connection between the two, then you're on your own as far as deciding.

00:24:18.560 The profile seems nice.

00:24:20.420 I had one conversation with Bob, but I don't ultimately know if Bob is a good guy or not.

00:24:26.180 And so you're left to being very vigilant as far as, I don't know, Bob was scratching his nose.

00:24:33.780 I shouldn't date Bob anymore.

00:24:36.880 Like, you become hypercritical of everyone when everyone has some sort of flaw.

00:24:42.500 Or maybe you're so hypercritical that you think that this, well, they were five minutes late.

00:24:49.800 So, hence, I'm going to make this be a mountain rather than a molehill.

00:24:54.560 So, I think that's part of the problem is that the dating apps create an environment where no one knows each other and they have to be so hypervigilant that they're paranoid about each person they encounter.

00:25:08.340 And so, everything becomes a red flag.

00:25:12.040 And so, no one is given a chance.

00:25:13.660 And on top of that, there's a lot to be said about women call it vibes, right? 0.93

00:25:19.000 There's something about, like, you went to a room with someone and there's something about them that you can't type, right?

00:25:25.680 The aura.

00:25:26.520 Yeah, some sort of aura.

00:25:28.280 Where you're like, I kind of like that person.

00:25:30.540 Like, there are a lot of people that you end up liking.

00:25:33.280 And you can't even explain it, but there's something that's there.

00:25:36.380 And you miss that when it comes to the apps.

00:25:38.760 It just becomes very superficial.

00:25:42.120 And then it becomes about entertaining you, especially from the female perspective.

00:25:45.660 It's like, he needs to say these things.

00:25:49.760 And they're trying to mimic some sort of vibe.

00:25:53.780 And you can't do that through text.

00:25:56.640 Yeah.

00:25:57.240 So, let's go back to the idea of family for a bit.

00:26:00.560 Yeah.

00:26:01.300 What would you say are the roles for the father, the mother, and the siblings?

00:26:08.240 So, one thing I try to do is take out, especially for the fathers, it becomes about the things that he's the income earner.

00:26:20.640 It becomes very superficial.

00:26:23.600 It becomes everything else rather than what's inside.

00:26:28.240 It becomes the external.

00:26:29.800 So, a father does these things.

00:26:32.080 But I want to talk about what a father is.

00:26:34.080 And a father is someone who is a balanced individual, who exhibits qualities of good leadership, who is respectable, and by his ability to be respectable, tends to be someone who takes a leadership role within the family.

00:26:54.160 And just like any good leadership role, you listen to what other people have to say, and you ultimately make the last choice, right?

00:27:03.600 Or you make the final decision.

00:27:06.460 But you're a well-balanced individual who is capable of being nurturing when it is necessary.

00:27:11.520 But you leave the nurturing more so to the mother because that is her strength.

00:27:19.360 Your strength is of a different area.

00:27:23.480 For us, the mother, the mothers should be more nurturing because they are naturally, most women tend to be naturally more nurturing and better at nurturing than the fathers. 0.90

00:27:34.140 But it's a balance between the two.

00:27:36.280 So, it's not about is the mother better or more important than the father.

00:27:41.480 It's about how do they balance each other out.

00:27:45.080 So, the example of a child falls down, they scrape their knee.

00:27:48.840 The mother comes over and says, oh, are you okay?

00:27:51.520 And she wants to dust off the knee and give him a Band-Aid.

00:27:54.760 And the father says, they'll be okay, right?

00:27:58.480 They're getting the balance between the two.

00:28:00.100 But if everyone is super nurturing, that child is getting, oh, that must have hurt.

00:28:06.420 Oh, my God.

00:28:06.980 And then that child thinks, like, well, I don't want to fall down again.

00:28:11.340 And so, they don't ever try.

00:28:13.100 And the father is saying, life sometimes hurts.

00:28:16.000 I'm sorry that you fell down.

00:28:17.220 But you have to keep moving, right?

00:28:19.200 It's a bit of both that a child needs.

00:28:22.520 So, I think the roles have to be things that are from within and less about what the parents are doing.

00:28:31.600 I think if it starts from within, then how it shows in the world is going to be tailored to the family.

00:28:38.380 Every person is a bit different.

00:28:40.200 Every man and woman, father and mother is a little bit different.

00:28:42.360 But I think if they lean on what feels natural to them, then they'll eventually come out and it'll show up in a way that tends to be balanced.

00:28:54.980 And listen, I tend to be more empathetic at times than maybe the average guy is.

00:29:01.720 And that's okay.

00:29:04.500 Like, everybody has their deviations between the two.

00:29:07.240 So, how would you say modern culture leads people to deviate from that ideal as far as family is concerned?

00:29:18.160 Well, it tends to have them deviate from it because they make everything external.

00:29:23.720 It makes everything about, for example, and my biggest gripe is fathers become only income earners.

00:29:31.040 It's about the only thing that you do is earn money.

00:29:34.120 So, if that's the only thing that they provide in a family, well, what if the mother earns more money or the mother makes just as much money as the father and she can sustain a household by herself?

00:29:48.460 Then what's the purpose of the father?

00:29:50.580 And so, if the idea is that, well, he only has one significance within a household, then he is optional.

00:29:56.140 If she can surpass his economic demands or his economic prowess, then he's just some guy who's taking up space in the house, right?

00:30:08.240 I don't want to reason with him.

00:30:10.620 I don't want to negotiate with him.

00:30:12.740 He can go, right?

00:30:15.020 And that's ultimately the problem.

00:30:17.120 The problem is that we tend to see men as optional within the family because they only have one role, one significance.

00:30:26.180 And the flip side, I have a gripe when it comes to rich men, how rich men are interpreted in our society.

00:30:35.420 You can use Elon Musk as an example.

00:30:37.500 So, everyone says, oh, look, he's a great father because they see him with this kid on his shoulders.

00:30:43.020 He's walking around the White House and all these things.

00:30:45.680 Well, you can't be a great father if you're a great father to some of your kids, right?

00:30:50.340 And he's allowed to be reckless and create children from all over the country because he's rich.

00:30:58.420 And that's not what a great father is.

00:31:00.680 So, in many ways, the idea that a man is only an income earner, that's his only use, well, then that guy gets to be reckless and create children all over the place, and no one bats an eye.

00:31:13.900 Oh, he can afford to do that.

00:31:16.560 That's what it becomes.

00:31:18.160 Meanwhile, he has a kid who is trans now who hates him.

00:31:22.380 Why?

00:31:22.900 And I would venture to say, because his father's a workaholic who is all over the country and is not giving his children adequate attention.

00:31:35.060 And so, there is a bit of resentment when it comes from his child that hates him.

00:31:41.080 And to me, that seems to make sense more so than, is there a woke mind virus?

00:31:47.120 Sure.

00:31:47.960 But that child was primed to take on that woke mind virus, right?

00:31:52.900 You didn't protect them from the woke mind virus because you weren't there.

00:31:57.600 And you can't be a good father if you're only a good father to some of your kids.

00:32:01.060 So, I do think that element of men are only income earners and blah, blah, blah, has given this free pass to reckless rich men who create children with all different types of women.

00:32:12.580 And they pay them off and no one bats an eye.

00:32:15.280 And they still get to say, oh, they're good fathers.

00:32:17.980 They take care of their kids.

00:32:19.240 Hence, taking care of their kids from a man's perspective is only giving them money. 0.77

00:32:25.360 And let me tell you, we can use, like, athletes as an example.

00:32:28.860 Tons of kids who are the children of wealthy athletes hate their fathers because their fathers are always on the road.

00:32:36.780 And they got four other kids in all these different cities that they used to travel in with different baby mamas.

00:32:42.820 And they never got the, they got all the economic, they got the clothes, they got the house and all these things.

00:32:48.940 But they never got the most valuable thing from their father, which is time.

00:32:54.040 Because that's ultimately what kids want.

00:32:55.760 They want their parents' time.

00:32:57.220 They want to know that their parents care.

00:32:59.460 And if you're never there, they're going to interpret that you do not care.

00:33:03.000 And probably, probably they're going to be right.

00:33:07.720 Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:09.460 So do you think that this really materialistic way of viewing things also makes things worse by setting parents into competition with each other?

00:33:24.800 It can.

00:33:25.820 It can in many circumstances.

00:33:27.460 I tend to see, because, you know, we have feminism, and there are elements where I agree with, if you want to work, women work. 0.98

00:33:37.060 My wife works full-time.

00:33:38.600 I have no problem with that.

00:33:40.860 And I'm all for individual liberty.

00:33:44.380 If you want to do something, it's not hurting someone else, go ahead and do those things.

00:33:50.520 But just like anything else, you know, eating good food is good, but if you eat too much of it, it's gluttonous, right?

00:33:57.460 So there's an element of individualism where it becomes gluttonous in our society, where we say, well, I want to do the things I want to do, and I don't care about these other things.

00:34:09.560 And in the times that we need to sacrifice, we are rationalizing our reasons why we should not sacrifice.

00:34:17.060 Or what's best for me is best for the child, which is supposed to be the opposite, right?

00:34:23.160 What is best for the child is the thing that I'm supposed to do.

00:34:27.360 If it benefits me, then I'm the side effect to the thing that benefits my child.

00:34:33.080 And I think it's that constant pursuit of individualism.

00:34:38.220 And sometimes that pursuit of individualism becomes a competition as well in that relationship dynamic.

00:34:44.800 I've seen way more women who are within relationships with men they don't like.

00:34:52.300 And what I mean by that, and it sounds strange, what I mean by that is they don't respect them.

00:34:58.440 These are men they don't respect. 0.99

00:34:59.980 They have sex with. 1.00

00:35:01.140 They'll make babies with. 0.99

00:35:03.040 But these men are basically on stopwatches.

00:35:07.120 It's like, it's just a matter of time before it stops and they're like, get out of my life.

00:35:12.420 I didn't really like you anyways.

00:35:14.120 I was just tolerating you.

00:35:16.420 And they were competing with them.

00:35:18.380 And so there's no cohesion.

00:35:19.920 There was never any plan to.

00:35:21.700 And I think within my book, there's a chapter called The Daughters We Disappoint.

00:35:26.260 I think for a lot of the women who are like that, who don't respect men in general, not just like, oh, this guy.

00:35:32.340 In general, there is a level of animosity towards men.

00:35:35.800 It's because of that disappointment from their father, whether it was their father was abusive or something of that nature, or he was absent in their life.

00:35:48.440 Their father is the prototype of all men. 0.92

00:35:51.980 So if the father wasn't there, then they build up this anger and resentment towards men in general.

00:36:02.120 And then feminism doesn't help. 1.00

00:36:03.380 So I've been saying for a while that feminism takes women who have been victimized or who have unresolved childhood trauma and says, it's not just your dad or that guy who sexually assaulted you. 0.99

00:36:15.760 It's all men. 1.00

00:36:16.440 And it's made them hyper-paranoid and distrusting of the opposite sex. 0.98

00:36:22.160 And if they're straight women, at some point, they're adults, they're going to want to have sex. 1.00

00:36:26.120 So they're having sex with the enemy. 0.99

00:36:28.300 Yes. 0.81

00:36:28.740 So it's a very strange, competitive dynamic where the men are just optional pieces of sexual pleasure or of procreation, but they can take them or leave them.

00:36:41.440 They're just simply tolerating them.

00:36:43.220 There is no deep love for these men.

00:36:47.380 So I see that often.

00:36:51.800 Right.

00:36:52.660 So when it comes to feminism, I think that one of the main aspects of the kind of feminism I, let's say, disagree with is the one that tries to show, tries to portray a family as something that involves men who aren't going to be there for their children, who are only material providers. 0.72

00:37:15.580 Because one of the arguments that some feminists give against the traditional family is that if the man works and I don't, I'm going to be dependent upon the man. 1.00

00:37:30.440 And in one respect, it is true.

00:37:33.040 But in another respect, it's also the man who is dependent on the woman to be there more for children.

00:37:41.300 That's not ideal because they should be there.

00:37:43.240 I'm not talking about absent fathers, but in a way, if, let's say, you have a man who works, a father who works, and a mother who doesn't, it doesn't necessarily imply that the father doesn't depend on the woman as well to raise the children.

00:37:59.400 So would you say that feminism on this issue tries to sell this victimhood mentality, which keeps women perennially, psychologically, unliberated by selling them a kind of superficial liberation, which ultimately harms themselves and the family? 1.00

00:38:18.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:19.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:20.000 And actually, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, too, because the only guy that would put up with that is a weak man.

00:38:27.760 But weak men aren't respectable, and they can run all over them.

00:38:31.160 And while they think they need a weak man, they also don't like a weak man, right?

00:38:36.880 But it allows them to appear strong, but in many cases, they don't want to be the strong figure.

00:38:43.400 The thing about modern-day feminism is that it tells women to be the opposite of what is natural. 1.00

00:38:50.820 It tells them to go against the natural inclination, right?

00:38:55.060 And so many of their natural inclinations, they're told to do the opposite, and that makes them miserable, which is why they look miserable half the time.

00:39:02.920 No woman wants to get with a man that's weak, right? 1.00

00:39:07.380 But they'll do it because they're far more afraid of going with a strong man.

00:39:13.260 But that strong man is actually someone they're attracted to.

00:39:16.960 But they're still afraid to actually move in that direction.

00:39:20.560 So it's a very weird dynamic that these different ideologies are telling people to adhere to.

00:39:28.900 It's telling them to do the opposite of their natural inclination.

00:39:31.900 Yeah, and also to sort of penalize them if they try to deviate from it.

00:39:39.080 Right.

00:39:39.900 Right, so as far as siblings are concerned, what are the roles of the siblings?

00:39:44.720 So I speak, I'm a big brother.

00:39:48.920 And I took this role very seriously.

00:39:54.160 So how would you conceive of the role of the big brother, ideally speaking?

00:39:59.480 I think you're the first person to ask me that.

00:40:01.900 Yeah.

00:40:03.760 I'm the little brother.

00:40:07.920 You know, that's a difficult one because I think it depends on the family.

00:40:13.580 Because I do, I'm empathetic to my sister because I think there are times where my sister was given too much responsibility for me.

00:40:23.300 And what I was going through or watching me, she couldn't do the thing that she wanted to do because she had to watch her brother.

00:40:29.780 Right.

00:40:30.320 My mother was off at work, so she had to watch her little brother.

00:40:33.360 And so there was a bit of, in my opinion, I think there was a little bit of resentment when she was younger.

00:40:38.060 Because it's just like, oh, I'd rather be out with my friends than I got to watch my brother, that kind of thing.

00:40:43.720 But I don't know if there's one single answer.

00:40:48.100 The only thing I would say is I would caution parents from making the older sibling like a parental figure, right?

00:40:58.220 Could they be someone who helps to guide?

00:41:03.920 Sure.

00:41:04.660 But I never liked the idea, well, it was your responsibility to watch your little brother and you messed up so you're punished.

00:41:11.620 I think that kind of thing can sometimes create resentment amongst the older sibling because they're still a child, right?

00:41:19.780 And their brain isn't fully developed.

00:41:21.920 They're going to screw up.

00:41:23.260 They're not going to see around the corner.

00:41:24.860 That's what the adults are for.

00:41:26.280 So I do think that there's, in some family dynamics, there's this idea like you're like the parental figure.

00:41:35.920 And that's an unfair job to give a child.

00:41:41.620 Yeah, so I don't know if I'm fully answering your question.

00:41:45.060 No, no, I see this.

00:41:46.600 But on the other hand, wouldn't you say that, obviously there are extremes.

00:41:50.860 Right.

00:41:51.220 But on the other hand, wouldn't you say that if you're there for your brothers, in a sense, and you have to take care of them.

00:41:59.420 Right.

00:42:00.540 Wouldn't you say that this is a learning experience that makes you a more responsible individual because you practice responsibility

00:42:08.980 as opposed to entering the mindset where everyone has to take care of you and the whole world revolves around you,

00:42:20.400 whereas, in fact, you say, no, the whole world doesn't revolve around me.

00:42:24.260 I have other responsibilities.

00:42:26.500 And I love my brothers, and I want to be there for them.

00:42:32.220 I think every child is different in how they're going to respond.

00:42:37.120 But I also think parents have to be measured with how much responsibility that they're offloading onto that child.

00:42:45.300 Because too much of it can make that child resentful.

00:42:49.020 Or maybe for certain children, they have, like you said, I love my siblings.

00:42:55.820 So for you, it's not a problem.

00:42:57.960 Right.

00:42:58.240 For other siblings, you know, they kind of fight.

00:43:00.880 They kind of, there's some combativeness.

00:43:03.340 And so making that child that's older in that situation can make them even more resentful.

00:43:10.180 So it really kind of depends on the household and how the children respond to certain things.

00:43:17.420 I don't think giving them a little bit of responsibility, like everything for me when it comes to raising children,

00:43:22.700 is like giving them bite-sized things of adulthood.

00:43:26.080 Right.

00:43:26.300 So giving them a little bit of responsibility is, I think, a good thing in general.

00:43:30.620 It's just you have to kind of figure out where is that point where it's too much.

00:43:34.960 Yes.

00:43:35.440 Yeah.

00:43:35.620 Because otherwise you may start feeling resentment, as you said before.

00:43:39.320 Yeah.

00:43:39.560 And for instance, one way this could manifest is thinking that, well, I had to take the role of an adult without being one.

00:43:49.480 And I missed an important part of my childhood.

00:43:52.540 Right.

00:43:52.820 Which I'm never getting back ever again.

00:43:55.180 Right.

00:43:55.600 So that's one way that could manifest.

00:43:57.440 So, yeah, I do agree with you.

00:43:58.780 It's all an issue of finding the right balance and the goal mean, which basically is the whole issue with everything in life.

00:44:06.360 Right.

00:44:06.860 Right.

00:44:07.280 So let's go to the kids now, the siblings and the kids now.

00:44:13.340 Not so much the relationship between siblings, but the relationship between parents and children.

00:44:19.420 What would you say is the best way to or a healthy way to raise a child?

00:44:26.600 I think the healthy way to raise a child, one, don't be your child's friends.

00:44:31.580 There has to be a authority figure.

00:44:35.380 The parent is the authority figure.

00:44:36.740 And sometimes when you say that, people think, like, you have to be an authoritarian, which is a completely different thing.

00:44:43.560 Authoritarians go too far.

00:44:45.980 Authority figure is the difference between a cop that you trust and a cop that abuses his power.

00:44:53.500 Right.

00:44:54.000 Same difference.

00:44:55.280 It's just a status.

00:44:56.640 And as a parent, you have authority over your children.

00:45:00.080 And so you get to dictate what they do.

00:45:02.280 And it's up to you to dictate how much of an authoritarian you're going to be.

00:45:06.740 Or if you're going to be authoritarian at all.

00:45:09.260 So the first thing is understanding and appreciating that your position of authority and responsibility is something that is wonderful.

00:45:19.380 It's something that gives you a lot of responsibility.

00:45:23.820 And it enshrines a relationship with your child that is irreplaceable.

00:45:29.040 But by being a kid's friend, you know, I've had friends for a few years and I don't talk to them anymore.

00:45:35.440 Right.

00:45:35.520 Friends can be fleeting, depending on different circumstances.

00:45:39.120 But being a parent is lifetime.

00:45:41.640 Right.

00:45:41.940 And by giving up your parental status to be your friend is actually for the benefit of the parent, not for the child.

00:45:49.120 And what tends to happen is that parent is doing it because it's easier in the short term to be your child's friend, to just give them whatever they ask for, to not lead them, to not discipline them, to not teach them anything.

00:46:05.300 So if they want a cookie, just give them a cookie.

00:46:07.840 Right.

00:46:07.980 It doesn't matter if they ate their meal or not.

00:46:10.360 They don't want to eat vegetables.

00:46:11.760 All right.

00:46:12.060 Fine.

00:46:12.320 You don't have to eat it.

00:46:13.200 You're being your child's friend.

00:46:14.740 Right.

00:46:15.100 And just like your friend, I can't tell you what to do.

00:46:19.280 Right.

00:46:19.920 I have no authority over my friend.

00:46:21.980 So you're demoting yourself by doing that.

00:46:24.600 And ultimately, what happens in those relationships is that that two-year-old that you wanted to be friends with becomes 12 and 13.

00:46:32.880 And their reaction is that my parents don't love me enough to tell me to not put my hand on the stove, to not do these things, to not be gluttonous, to stay away from these people, to not do drugs, to not drink.

00:46:48.200 They just said, go ahead, and they facilitated it, because it was easier than getting momentary pushback from a child that doesn't know better.

00:46:59.460 How can you be authoritative, an authoritative figure, without being tyrannical?

00:47:05.040 One, there has to be a culture of honesty between both parties.

00:47:14.240 So I'll just use my son.

00:47:18.860 And actually, this kind of leads into discipline, too.

00:47:22.300 I'm of the belief that you should not put your hands on your kids.

00:47:24.820 And part of that is from life experience, where I was spanked as a kid, but nobody likes to be hit, just in general.

00:47:37.080 People don't like getting hit.

00:47:39.060 And children especially don't like being hit.

00:47:43.420 It's that hitting.

00:47:47.680 What are you teaching your children, ultimately, by hitting them?

00:47:50.840 And some people say, oh, well, it's a quick course correction.

00:47:55.640 Okay, fine.

00:47:57.000 But at the end of the day, everything that you do to your child is a lesson, whether you realize it or not.

00:48:03.960 And that thing, you may forget about it, but that may be something that your child remembers 20 years from now.

00:48:08.200 So what are you teaching your child at that moment that you decide to get a belt and hit them, right?

00:48:14.040 Because they were acting up.

00:48:15.240 Well, children act up.

00:48:17.020 Is there a different way that you can go about it? 0.98

00:48:18.860 So for me, when my son was young, I would pop him on the butt, but I didn't like it. 0.96

00:48:25.440 And I remember when I was a child, why? 0.98

00:48:28.540 It was because I already felt bad.

00:48:30.680 You're yelling at me.

00:48:32.300 Like, I knew I messed up.

00:48:33.820 And it was just overboard to hit me, right?

00:48:38.840 Rather than talk to me.

00:48:40.060 And I remember as a kid sometimes, and I love, and when I'm saying this, I love my mother.

00:48:45.160 But I remember thinking, like, I would much rather you scold me and then talk to me rather than make me scared about getting hit.

00:48:56.360 Because that makes me scared of you.

00:48:58.080 And I don't want to be scared of my parents.

00:48:59.500 And so one day I told myself, I'm just not going to do that.

00:49:04.780 And I didn't tell my son.

00:49:06.680 I just stopped doing it.

00:49:09.020 So much so I don't think my son even remembers me ever putting my hand on him.

00:49:12.400 He was very young.

00:49:14.500 And so for any time that I would have done it, I just talked to him more.

00:49:18.320 And if I was upset, I raised my voice, right?

00:49:23.240 But I would always tell him why I was upset.

00:49:25.960 And I would always explain to him.

00:49:27.960 And if he crossed the line, he got punished in different ways.

00:49:32.140 You know, his mother and I weren't together.

00:49:36.560 And she'd be like, he did this.

00:49:37.900 And I was like, take everything out of his room.

00:49:40.120 Just take it out.

00:49:41.320 And tell him he doesn't own anything.

00:49:42.880 We own it.

00:49:44.780 Like, we did everything else.

00:49:46.900 And then when the time came, as he got older, he understood.

00:49:53.180 And he wasn't afraid of me.

00:49:56.220 Because as an authority figure, you don't want your child to be afraid of you.

00:50:01.060 You want them to respect you.

00:50:03.100 And by communicating with them while also holding a hard line in certain areas and creating boundaries,

00:50:08.880 your child respects you.

00:50:10.720 Because at the end of the day, what's going to happen is they're going to get older, right? 0.95

00:50:14.780 And that ass-whooping you would have given them at 5, it's not going to hurt that much at 15. 0.98

00:50:19.600 And that ass-whooping, does it actually fix the problem? 0.99

00:50:22.340 Because children are just reacting to whatever the world gives them. 0.96

00:50:25.500 So if they're acting out, they're acting out for a reason.

00:50:28.840 So what is the reason? 0.95

00:50:29.960 Is an ass-whooping going to fix that reason? 0.86

00:50:32.440 And it's not. 0.94

00:50:33.800 9 times out of 10, it's not.

00:50:35.020 10 out of 10, I would go as far as saying 10 times out of 10, it's not going to fix the root cause of the behavior that they're exhibiting.

00:50:42.400 So you have to, and this is a lot of work, which is why, like, hitting a child is quick.

00:50:48.960 It's take your frustration out.

00:50:50.660 But what are you ultimately teaching your child?

00:50:52.360 And I didn't want to teach my child to be afraid of me.

00:50:57.400 That was, like, my number one thing.

00:50:59.760 I wanted my son, where if he was in a situation and he messed up, I want him to come and talk to me and tell me so we can figure it out together and so we can move forward.

00:51:11.600 It's not to punish him endlessly.

00:51:13.540 It's to make sure that he knows that I love him and then we, if you screw up, we all mess up, you know, and you're a kid, you're going to screw up.

00:51:22.960 And you're a parent, you're going to mess up.

00:51:25.260 And it's to humble yourself but also listen to what your child has to say.

00:51:29.940 So for me as a parent, I always tried to make sure that if I mess up, and there were times where I was frustrated at something at work and I'm driving in traffic and all this stuff, and he would get in the car.

00:51:42.640 And I'm just annoyed, and I raised my voice at him, and I didn't need to, and I could see, like, it affected him.

00:51:49.680 And then later on, I would go to him and apologize because that's not, that wasn't right for me to do that.

00:51:55.100 That was from here, and I put it on you.

00:51:58.080 That's humility, right?

00:52:00.080 And children will respect that.

00:52:02.200 So, you know, while I am an authority figure, I am friendly with my child, recognizing, like, there's an area we don't cross, and he knows that.

00:52:10.980 But he also respects and loves me enough where now that he's an adult, he's 19, he will come to me.

00:52:19.840 He's not afraid to tell his dad, like, dad, I messed up, or I don't know what to do, and I'm not going to scold him.

00:52:26.180 We're going to talk about it, right?

00:52:27.740 So I do think, in an ideal situation, I've been very blessed to have a situation with his mother, who's a great mother, and myself.

00:52:39.160 I tried, if I messed up in an area, I tried my best to correct that, become a better father as time went on.

00:52:47.040 And obviously not a perfect father.

00:52:49.580 There is no perfect father.

00:52:51.020 But I tried my best, and my son understands that.

00:52:54.480 And so creating an environment where the child is comfortable, they can come to you, they can speak with you,

00:52:59.320 I think that's ultimately, like, what you want to create for a household.

00:53:03.020 So how do you think modern culture leads parents to deviate from the ideal way of childbearing?

00:53:13.200 It deviates from that, because everything that I just said was about humility.

00:53:20.240 What's about honoring the position of being a parent as being a sacrificial position.

00:53:27.240 We'll use a cop as an example, right?

00:53:29.940 While he is the guy who will pull you over and give you a ticket because you violated the law,

00:53:34.540 he's also the guy who's going to go and run into a gunfight to stop someone who's bad, right?

00:53:40.740 That is a loving sacrifice from an authority figure, so to speak.

00:53:46.080 And so how that differentiates from the problem that I'm seeing is that the adults aren't sacrificing, right?

00:53:55.760 They are not lovingly sacrificing the things that they want.

00:53:58.420 They are remixing the things that they want as to being somehow beneficial for their kids.

00:54:04.200 And you see that with divorce.

00:54:05.960 You see that with the language that's used.

00:54:08.900 If I'm happy, my children will be happy, which is a rationalization type of statement,

00:54:13.720 because that's not how children operate.

00:54:16.080 Children tend to be people pleasers, right?

00:54:18.620 And you and their, like, let's say the mother and the father is in the entire world for a child,

00:54:25.260 especially at a very young age.

00:54:27.740 And so when they split apart, their world is splitting apart.

00:54:32.420 And how do you want them to handle that?

00:54:34.900 Like, children don't understand adult dynamics.

00:54:37.540 And you can say, well, mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore.

00:54:40.140 You can say they're all you want.

00:54:42.520 Children are going to personalize that. 0.71

00:54:44.580 Like, it's their fault that mommy and daddy no longer love each other.

00:54:47.540 Or they don't fully understand.

00:54:49.320 And it's a forever conflict.

00:54:52.000 Or maybe the one, especially if there's one selfish parent,

00:54:56.920 is pitting the child against the other parent, right?

00:55:01.180 The children get weaponized in that circumstance.

00:55:03.780 So you're seeing all of these things where the children are just these things that are following the selfish adults

00:55:14.600 or being used for the adults' needs or whatever.

00:55:18.420 But it's not about the kids.

00:55:19.900 The kids are just hanger-ons to the adult whims.

00:55:23.620 And so I think that's a major issue.

00:55:26.960 And if I was to use my father as an example, my father simply just didn't want to be involved in our life.

00:55:35.960 You know, my mother never pushed him away or anything like that.

00:55:39.560 But he was a married man who had kids with another woman.

00:55:44.700 And so he lived his life.

00:55:47.280 And when he did come around, he was emotionally disconnected, didn't seem all that interested.

00:55:52.260 And so much so that I had no real relationship.

00:55:57.100 My father is essentially a stranger until the day he died.

00:56:00.480 And that was based off of what he wanted, not what was best for us.

00:56:05.860 Would you say that overly sensitive parents, parents who don't want to upset their child's sentiments,

00:56:16.060 can in many ways harm their children in the same way that some tyrannical parents can?

00:56:26.160 Definitely.

00:56:27.860 And how does this happen?

00:56:30.800 So often it happens because there's a lack of balance, right?

00:56:34.800 So if you have a more nurturing mother and a weak father,

00:56:40.720 well, the weak father never checks the nurturing mother when she goes too far.

00:56:43.980 And so nothing changes.

00:56:47.240 And it just gets worse and worse and worse.

00:56:49.340 So it becomes, well, they don't want to go to school today.

00:56:53.140 It's just drips and drabs of allowing the child to dictate themselves and what they want to do.

00:57:00.640 In extreme circumstances, it becomes, well, we'll let them smoke weed in the house.

00:57:06.140 Because it's better if they smoke it here, if they're going to do it anyways.

00:57:09.340 It becomes that kind of rationalization because they never want to push the child.

00:57:17.680 And they never want to deal with a child who is upset that they're being enforced rules.

00:57:23.280 But they need to have rules enforced.

00:57:26.240 And ultimately what will happen is they'll grow up to resent their parents.

00:57:29.540 Because every child, I don't care who they are.

00:57:32.200 I don't care what they say.

00:57:33.060 Every child, if you let your child smoke weed in your house and drink, do drugs, they know they're not supposed to do that.

00:57:41.520 Right?

00:57:42.300 And so what they interpret it as, like your friends might come over, oh, your parents are cool.

00:57:47.580 They let us do, you know, drink and do drugs.

00:57:51.060 But every kid will be like, my parents don't care about me enough to tell me no.

00:57:58.280 And that is something that is very profound.

00:58:01.380 And you'll see that in affluent families all the time.

00:58:04.720 Where the parents, they got a lot of money, they have a lot of access to stuff, and they're busy and stuff like that.

00:58:10.400 So it's just easier, yeah, you want this?

00:58:12.400 Sure.

00:58:13.200 And so that's where you see, like, they'll crash the car and their parents will give them a new car.

00:58:16.960 Like, there's no repercussions.

00:58:18.420 They're never told no, and they become resentful, and they become spoiled, and they become dredges on our society.

00:58:25.480 And these are also, like, in many cases, like the Gen Z kids who end up in a workforce where they crumble when their boss says, you did this wrong. 0.54

00:58:35.680 It's like, no one ever tells me I'm doing it wrong, you know?

00:58:38.620 And they never get the bite sides of reality when they were kids.

00:58:45.000 And a quick story.

00:58:46.680 My son was very young.

00:58:47.760 I think it was, like, two or three.

00:58:49.000 He would play, like, this little game, and he would get really pissed off if he lost.

00:58:53.000 Like, just, like, moping.

00:58:54.840 And it was so much so I was like, that's not good.

00:58:58.060 So I started introducing bite-sized disappointments to him.

00:59:03.520 So he would come in, like, can I have a cookie?

00:59:06.880 And I would say no.

00:59:07.880 And he would mope at first.

00:59:11.720 But then every time, he got better with it to the point where he was just like, okay.

00:59:17.520 And he just moved on.

00:59:19.140 And so much so, like, there were times where he would ask.

00:59:22.060 I'd say no.

00:59:22.600 He was like, okay, move on.

00:59:23.620 Fifteen minutes later, I'd give him a cookie.

00:59:25.120 And tell him it's because of how he responded to that.

00:59:27.060 But from there, those bite-sized disappointments, he got better, so much so that there are things

00:59:34.180 that happen in his life where you have to move and things would change.

00:59:37.460 And he just takes it in stride because he learned in a very small, bite-sized way that

00:59:43.560 life doesn't go the way that you want it to go.

00:59:45.360 All right.

00:59:47.100 So I have a very important question right now, which I think is going to be very interesting.

00:59:54.200 So we're talking about ideal families and families that deviate from that ideal and

01:00:01.980 ideal ways to raise a child and child-raising methods that deviate from it.

01:00:08.720 But let's say that someone has grown up in a setting that is far from the ideal, a setting

01:00:19.360 that sometimes may involve, as you said, lots of psychological pain.

01:00:24.260 What is your advice for people of the sort who may think that, who may view things entirely

01:00:32.280 pessimistically?

01:00:33.520 Would you say that there is room for optimism?

01:00:36.160 And if yes, what would your advice be for becoming more optimistic and actually improving

01:00:44.020 your life and improving your mindset?

01:00:46.540 Well, I'm an example of that.

01:00:49.940 I became the father that I would have wanted when I was a kid.

01:00:54.120 And when my son was born, I said, I don't want to be my father.

01:00:57.060 That was the number one thing.

01:00:58.280 And I had to figure out how to be a man and how to be a father on my own.

01:01:02.600 So if I can do it, other people can do it.

01:01:04.720 But I would say the number one thing is you don't have to become the very thing that you

01:01:12.560 despise when you were a kid.

01:01:14.140 Like, you don't.

01:01:15.680 And your potential as a human being can grow as long as that's what you want.

01:01:21.820 I do think that you have to be optimistic.

01:01:25.280 And maybe you look for other examples.

01:01:27.080 Maybe my book is an example where you see, like, this person was able to change their

01:01:32.080 life by doing these things.

01:01:33.820 And they did struggle.

01:01:35.040 And it wasn't easy.

01:01:36.020 But it is possible.

01:01:39.100 So I would say it is more than likely for you to change your life and to change the trajectory

01:01:45.720 for your family.

01:01:47.660 Essentially in the cycle.

01:01:49.540 Right?

01:01:49.840 In the cycle of dysfunction.

01:01:51.060 So if your parents were alcoholics and drug users and all these different things, you

01:01:55.560 recognize that that had a negative impact on your life.

01:01:59.580 Your childhood doesn't have to determine your future as a parent.

01:02:03.000 You can say, it ends with me.

01:02:04.880 And I'm going to do something different.

01:02:07.340 And because I don't want my child to go through what I went through.

01:02:11.760 And that was my number one thing.

01:02:13.620 I never wanted my son to ask, does my father love me or care about me?

01:02:18.060 He knows by my actions, by my involvement, by me telling him how much I'm proud of him,

01:02:24.700 how much I love him.

01:02:25.900 He knows.

01:02:27.540 He doesn't have to question these things.

01:02:29.800 And so that was my number one objective.

01:02:31.560 So if someone grew up in a not very ideal situation, of course, they can definitely change

01:02:37.240 their trajectory.

01:02:38.160 They don't have to rely off of fear.

01:02:40.320 Because a lot of people are like that.

01:02:42.360 I do think that there are people who are fearful of repeating the mistakes of their parents.

01:02:48.520 And so for some of them, they don't want kids.

01:02:50.580 I think a lot of the rhetoric from people who are saying, I don't want children.

01:02:54.420 And when you listen to the reasons why, it sounds very specific, right?

01:02:59.020 It's almost like they're telling their story.

01:03:01.940 Whereas someone who grew up in a happy and healthy household, they want children.

01:03:06.100 Why?

01:03:06.400 Because they have an example where it was happy and healthy.

01:03:09.280 So I do think that a lot of people are making decisions about family based off of fear,

01:03:15.200 based off of what happened to them as children.

01:03:17.680 And it's that thing that they don't want to have happen.

01:03:20.360 And they almost feel like, I'm going to end up doing the same thing.

01:03:24.520 And it's like, no, you don't have to.

01:03:25.720 So you said basically that it's absolutely up to them to not replicate the things their parents did.

01:03:36.980 Right.

01:03:37.700 And that they should break the mentality of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

01:03:42.180 Exactly.

01:03:42.580 By, in a sense, practicing this.

01:03:46.020 By not being the parent their parents were.

01:03:49.260 Yeah.

01:03:49.540 But if that is the latter stage, what about the former?

01:03:54.020 How do they break that mindset before they end up having a family?

01:03:59.500 Well, what are the ways of thinking you think are really important for them to have and to practice?

01:04:07.440 For them to break the mindset?

01:04:10.420 Because if the ideal family, as you mentioned in the beginning, involves a historical process,

01:04:16.080 which itself involves planning, it seems like they need to have sorted this out before they start.

01:04:22.880 Correct.

01:04:23.700 That's ideal.

01:04:24.640 Does it work this way?

01:04:25.840 Or do we find it as we go along?

01:04:29.040 Well, I think, for one, the fact that this person does not want to repeat puts them in a great spot.

01:04:36.080 Good.

01:04:36.320 Because they're mindful of it.

01:04:38.440 I think my issue is when people are just doing things and it's just happening and they're not thinking about these things.

01:04:46.100 The fact that they're mindful, how I was raised was not good.

01:04:49.620 I don't want that for my child.

01:04:51.760 That will be the basis of everything that they do moving forward.

01:04:56.040 Right.

01:04:56.560 So they are less likely to screw up their kids and repeat the mistakes that their parents did.

01:05:02.200 Because they already have that in mind.

01:05:04.180 I think a good practice for all parents is to occasionally remember what it was like for them as a kid.

01:05:11.200 Right.

01:05:11.560 Because if they do that, they'll give their kids some grace.

01:05:14.740 And it's like, oh, I remember when I was a kid.

01:05:17.360 Like, I get it.

01:05:19.200 You know.

01:05:19.500 So if your kid messes up, it's not the end of the world.

01:05:22.280 You remember when you messed up as a kid?

01:05:24.460 And you give them some grace.

01:05:26.260 And you can kind of move forward.

01:05:28.100 So for the child who grew up in a dysfunctional household and they're about to potentially become parents.

01:05:35.500 For them to remember what it was like for them as a kid.

01:05:39.480 And it's like, oh, when they did that, I'm not going to do that.

01:05:43.620 Right.

01:05:44.140 And maybe their parents, there's 80% that they did that was right.

01:05:48.080 But there's 20% that was dysfunctional.

01:05:49.780 Well, just don't do the 20%.

01:05:51.160 Like, improve on that.

01:05:52.240 You know, there are things that, many of the things that my mother did that I tried to replicate and I think was good.

01:05:59.240 And there are some things that I don't agree with.

01:06:02.360 And those are the things that I tried to alter moving forward.

01:06:08.100 But it's more likely if you are telling yourself that narrative that you do not want to be your parents, that you will likely not do that thing.

01:06:17.920 But if you are mindless, you're going to do the things that are familiar and comfortable, even if they're detrimental.

01:06:25.800 And would you say that modern culture tries to give us the notion that we have no agency?

01:06:32.780 In some respects, yes.

01:06:35.460 Like, I have issues with mental health and how I'm a believer in mental health. 0.99

01:06:42.400 But just like anything else, it goes too far, where you are your diagnosis, right?

01:06:48.520 You are chronically depressed.

01:06:50.740 So you are always chronically depressed.

01:06:54.020 It would be like if I broke my leg and I said, yes, but I'm always a person with a broken leg.

01:06:59.840 And it's like, well, no, you can heal, right?

01:07:01.840 We wouldn't identify as a person with a broken leg.

01:07:03.960 But there are things that within mental health that you can overcome, right, with repetition, with a change in mindset, with mindfulness, with behavioral corrections.

01:07:18.340 And so especially for me as someone who had suicidal ideations, depressions, things like that, I don't have those things anymore.

01:07:25.260 But I didn't take drugs to overcome it, which drugs don't really help you all that much.

01:07:31.400 They mostly just sedate you and prolong the process.

01:07:35.720 But it took mindfulness.

01:07:37.880 It took making mistakes.

01:07:39.860 It took things that I had to exemplify in real life to overcome those obstacles, to not be afraid, to overcome anxiety.

01:07:49.120 It took a lot of work.

01:07:51.200 It took many years to change these things.

01:07:54.360 And I would go as far as saying it took God as well to help me get to the path that I am sitting here with you today.

01:08:02.220 So all those things are more than possible.

01:08:05.100 But I do think that there's a diagnosis issue within America, especially, where people are their diagnoses and they will always be this.

01:08:15.060 And it's just a matter of how old you are and how long you've carried that thing.

01:08:19.200 And so if they were chronically depressed at 21, at 41, they're chronically depressed still, right?

01:08:25.480 It just becomes this constant, you are your diagnosis.

01:08:29.160 And that feeds into the victimhood mentality, that you cannot change your circumstance.

01:08:35.340 You are what you are.

01:08:36.460 Even down to something like how we talk about alcoholism, whether it's true or not is a different story.

01:08:43.540 But my parents were alcoholics.

01:08:46.480 And so I'm more likely to be an alcoholic.

01:08:49.100 It's just like.

01:08:49.640 To me, that seems very victim ideology.

01:08:55.720 It becomes very disempowering.

01:08:58.560 Like, oh, because my parents were alcoholics, then I better not have a drink because I'm going to be an alcoholic.

01:09:03.460 It's like, well, no.

01:09:04.640 There's a slew of things that can happen in between.

01:09:06.940 A lot of choices as to why you would go in that direction.

01:09:11.420 Oh, they were addicts.

01:09:12.920 So I tend to be an addict because it's Jeanette. 0.99

01:09:14.960 But it's like, no, there's a whole bunch of personal decisions along the way.

01:09:19.640 And more often than not, I would venture to say someone who has that type of problem is sedating themselves for some particular reason.

01:09:29.060 They're not just drinking just a drink.

01:09:30.620 There's something going on where they've lost control and they're doing it too much.

01:09:34.480 And as far as the tough part of what you said, suicidal ideation is concerned.

01:09:41.520 And what is your advice for people who would feel this way?

01:09:46.920 Well, for one, I'm a big advocate of proper therapy.

01:09:53.080 Improper therapy is when you go in there and they're like your buddy and all you do is tell them your problems and you cry and you go home.

01:10:00.420 But you do that for years.

01:10:01.720 A good therapist obviously wants to hear your story and hear where you're coming from.

01:10:08.320 But at the end, they're supposed to give you a strategy to overcome or mindfulness, a way to recognize that these particular things are the cause as to why you see the world in this particular way.

01:10:21.540 And so ultimately, therapists are supposed to help you to a point where they lose a client, right?

01:10:32.660 It's kind of a weird profession.

01:10:34.480 The purpose of the therapy is for it to end as opposed to go on for ages.

01:10:40.040 Exactly.

01:10:41.200 And so if you have a good therapist, you're only going to them for a period of time because you're able to talk it out.

01:10:47.260 You're able to identify the source of what is making you suicidal or the source of your issue.

01:10:53.760 And you're able to strategize as far as how you manage this to a point where you can move forward and you can overcome it with time because it does take time to do these things.

01:11:06.320 Another thing I would say that's realistic, especially for men, is get small wins.

01:11:12.200 So I'll tell you this quick story.

01:11:15.400 There's a guy from Canada that I talked to just on X.

01:11:22.060 And I mentioned that at one point I had agoraphobia.

01:11:26.000 And that's when I really went to seek help.

01:11:29.500 And he had mentioned in reply, he's like, I'm there right now.

01:11:32.580 And so I immediately reached out to him and I said, let's get on the phone.

01:11:37.200 He was so isolated that his phone was turned off and he had to rig up a setup just for us to talk over the Internet.

01:11:45.140 And I talked to him for about an hour.

01:11:47.740 And not to get into all of his business, but he had some issues at his job and he put all of his purpose into his job.

01:11:56.560 And he was at risk of being completely fired.

01:12:00.740 And he was like, if I had lost my job, I was going to kill myself.

01:12:05.460 And mind you, this man, he's married, he has children and he was struggling.

01:12:10.280 And I told him, I was like, you have to get small wins.

01:12:12.700 I'm like, are you taking a shower every day?

01:12:16.460 Yes.

01:12:16.960 OK.

01:12:17.240 Are you doing this?

01:12:18.460 No.

01:12:19.080 I was like, you should start doing this.

01:12:21.000 Like, it starts with, you know, like Jordan Peterson says, make your bed.

01:12:25.880 You know, it starts with these small things, especially when you're that deep into it that you have to get those small wins.

01:12:32.360 OK.

01:12:32.980 I was able to wash the dishes.

01:12:34.840 OK.

01:12:35.500 I got to do that every day.

01:12:36.860 OK.

01:12:37.040 I was able to go out and go to the gym.

01:12:39.560 All right.

01:12:39.960 You have to get these small wins and those small wins will turn into bigger wins in the long run.

01:12:45.100 And I'm glad to say about a year later, because I only had one phone call with him and I would periodically check up on him, see how he was doing.

01:12:52.680 And a year later, he said, I'm back at work, but in a different area at the, he was worked at a hospital.

01:13:00.020 And he was like, thank you so much for that, because that call really helped me and changed the trajectory.

01:13:06.240 So in many ways, like, I really wish more people would reach out.

01:13:09.920 And to me, when I saw that, that's like a sign of distress, because he didn't have to write that.

01:13:16.680 But he also didn't know that someone was going to respond and actually care about his life.

01:13:21.620 So I think those small wins really help someone who is suicidal, because suicidal ideation is basically linked with hopelessness.

01:13:33.240 And if there's no hope, then what's the point of living?

01:13:37.540 And final question.

01:13:38.960 Yeah.

01:13:39.080 Do you think that there are situations where you have to separate a family, where you have to take a divorce?

01:13:46.500 And if so, when is that threshold reached?

01:13:50.820 Obviously, abuse.

01:13:53.240 Whether it's abuse between the spouse or abuse of the children.

01:13:57.260 Obviously, some sort of physical sexual abuse.

01:14:02.020 Emotional abuse is like a weird, because it's very, there's a lot of variables as to what's emotional abuse.

01:14:07.820 Very subjective to establish.

01:14:08.860 Yeah, it's, it's, it's, that's a harder one.

01:14:11.700 But for sure, physical sexual abuse.

01:14:15.360 The kids need, their, their safety is very important.

01:14:20.060 But I do think that we have to make sure we have to make sure we're modeling behavior.

01:14:27.700 So it's not just enough that the parents exist in a home.

01:14:31.080 If you're, if you two don't get along and you live two separate lives, you're teaching your kids something.

01:14:40.420 So while you're technically together, you're not together.

01:14:44.860 And so we have to be mindful of these things.

01:14:47.960 But that, that takes humility.

01:14:49.460 That takes a sense of, we need to work this out between us, right?

01:14:53.740 We have to stop competing against each other and trying to always be right.

01:14:58.340 Say you're sorry and move forward and rekindle that love that started this family being created in the first place.

01:15:04.640 But for sure, I'm not one of those divorce abolitionist people.

01:15:07.740 There are definitely situations where the, the lesson being learned in the household is incredibly detrimental to the children and splitting apart and trying to co-parent would be more beneficial.

01:15:20.000 But I'm also not quick to tell people, oh, they're not on your page, up and leave them.

01:15:26.760 The kids will figure it out.

01:15:27.780 They'll be fine.

01:15:28.500 Like, I, I think that's far harmful.

01:15:32.180 So Adam, thank you very much for this interview.

01:15:35.000 Yes.

01:15:35.200 And I want to remind everyone again to check out Adam's book, The Children We Left Behind, and also your Twitter handle, at WrongSpeak.

01:15:46.400 Right.

01:15:46.660 So I want to thank you very much for this interview.

01:15:49.340 I thought it was, I think it was very wholesome.

01:15:51.780 Thank you.

01:15:52.340 And I hope you enjoyed it as well.

01:15:55.440 And see you and goodbye.

01:15:57.420 Bye.

01:16:05.200 Bye.

01:16:05.880 Bye.

01:16:17.140 Bye.

01:16:18.000 Bye.

01:16:22.480 Bye.

01:16:23.440 Bye.

01:16:23.800 Bye.

01:16:24.300 Bye.

01:16:26.460 Bye.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - May 10, 2025

The Breakdown of the Family ｜ Interview with Adam Coleman

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