00:00:15.280And I really liked your contributions as well. Thank you.
00:00:17.980So, people can find you on X. The handle is at wrongspeak and the account name is Adam B. Coleman, proud father in Imperfect Man.
00:00:28.240Yes. And I think that this name sets sort of the tone of the conversation we're going to have that surrounds your book, The Children We Left Behind, whose subtitle is How Western Culture Rationalizes Family Separation and Ignores the Pain of Child Neglect.
00:00:49.220So, that's a very interesting topic. It's a topic that comes close to heart to me because I'm Greek and Greek society is very much family oriented.
00:01:00.460And I've seen all sorts of family drama in the wider family, but also in friends.
00:01:06.700So, I do think that we're going to have a very interesting conversation.
00:01:11.640So, let me ask you, what motivated you to write this book?
00:01:16.280So, I started writing for different publications, major publications like the New York Post.
00:01:22.740And I would see these different stories that would come up in the media.
00:01:27.400And I always saw like a family element to it, whereas other people, they were focused on maybe the racial angle or they were focused on the guns.
00:01:37.220You know, if it was about mass shootings, they were focused on the gun element.
00:01:40.900But for me, I was like, well, how did that person get there, right?
00:01:44.380How did that kid enter that school and shoot up people, right?
00:01:47.820Is it about the guns or is it about years or decades of what happened to them?
00:01:54.220And for many of these cases, they are coming from households that were broken apart, whether it be through divorce or maybe they were in a household where parents weren't married or something of that nature.
00:02:05.640But there was clearly some sort of family separation.
00:02:08.260On top of that, some sort of dysfunction within the home.
00:02:11.440And then the output is, and these are things that are on the extreme, but the output ultimately resulted in this functional child taking a gun and killing people, right?
00:03:39.120Although the fringe element stems from some sort of family dysfunction, it's not just the fringe.
00:03:45.240It's also people like myself, the kids who are essentially left behind, who maybe they aren't robbing you and they're not killing you, but they are suffering.
00:04:49.500But I've heard also from some studies that this can't happen.
00:04:53.680And especially, even if you have people who have been, let's say, nurtured by the state, whatever that may mean, that they do feel a sort of element missing if they don't have an actual biological family.
00:05:31.680But then I go to the root of it is why.
00:05:35.540If that's the case, why are people pushing the state to be more of a surrogate parent to children?
00:05:42.000And we've seen that in the United States where the fight over what can be taught in schools, when the parents are saying, actually, I should be teaching my kids this.
00:05:53.760And the state thinking, no, you can't teach it right.
00:05:58.960And it's like, no, I deserve the right to tell my child, introduce these things to my child, and tell them in an appropriate way, in a loving and caring way, and the state battling who should do these things.
00:08:23.480They don't see the honor in taking hold of these things and holding it sacred, that they're the ones who teach their children morality.
00:08:31.760Not some teacher in some school who may not share your morality, who may not share your principles.
00:08:38.020And so the parents are supposed to be the ones who are enforcing a moral set, a code for their child to adhere to.
00:08:45.720And despite if everyone else is a maniac, you're not supposed to be a maniac because we expect you to become something much better than that.
00:08:54.720But if all they're doing is following the herd and they're being led by a shepherd who's leading them off a cliff, they're going to go off a cliff.
00:09:06.580So the subtitle of your book is How Western Culture Rationalizes Family Separation and Ignores the Pain of Child Neglect.
00:09:14.000So it seems to me we could divide the conversation into two further sections.
00:09:20.000One dealing with the family and then one dealing specifically with children.
00:09:25.260And then I have some extra follow-up questions.
00:09:27.380But I think the best way to go about it is to start with an ideal in both cases and then show how most families deviate from that ideal.
00:09:38.740And then talk about ideal child-rearing, child-bearing, and also how modern families deviate from that ideal.
00:09:50.500So as far as the family is concerned, how do you define a family?
00:09:57.000And that's kind of weird, but we have to ask these days.
00:10:00.580How do you define a family and how do you define an ideal family?
00:10:04.680And the reason I'm saying this is because a lot of these notions can be used descriptively as well as normatively.
00:10:12.820So you could say that of a biological mother that no real mother would act this way.
00:10:19.460So there's an idealizing element there.
00:10:21.560So that's why I want to say that when I'm asking what is the family, I'm asking what are the normative elements you associate with a family?
00:12:22.100Obviously, divorce exists and things like that, but it is fundamentally different from going from having a girlfriend or having a boyfriend to having a husband or having a wife.
00:12:32.000It's a fundamental difference of ownership and responsibility between the two.
00:12:36.920And we shouldn't run away from that responsibility.
00:12:43.000The children are created in a foundation.
00:12:45.920The marriage is a foundation for family, for children to exist in.
00:12:50.420And so by them being created within a foundation, they can be properly raised, knowing that there's ownership between the mother and the father and how they treat each other and what they want.
00:13:14.240It's basically what I'm saying is we're creating a wider foundation of process of actual family planning structure so that when the children are born, they're not born into accidental circumstances where they kind of have to figure things out as they go along.
00:13:30.620And then one person's like, well, I didn't realize this.
00:13:33.840And the next person is like, well, I actually wanted this.
00:13:36.200And then that's when the family becomes about the two adults who can't agree on things because they never had these discussions.
00:13:42.220And then that's when the family separates.
00:13:45.260Even if they were to get married, divorce becomes an option.
00:13:48.260It becomes about the adults and things like that.
00:13:52.640If there's communication from the very beginning, we know what we're getting into.
00:13:57.820And if communication from the very beginning is like we're of two different timelines as far as what we want, two different fields of thought, we should not get together.
00:14:08.560We should not create a family together.
00:14:10.060And that's what I see more often than not is the accidental family where it's, well, kids are being formed and then, you know, or we've been together for four years.
00:15:01.740And I don't fully know if this is a cultural thing or not, but I have seen where everyone is uncomfortable being honest.
00:15:13.300We were kind of talking about that before.
00:15:15.860This fear of truth, because, you know, I can speak from a guy's perspective.
00:15:20.900If I tell her the truth, she may leave.
00:15:23.880And so I'm just going to sugarcoat things or I'm going to say the things that I think she wants to hear rather than being honest.
00:15:30.360So we never actually get to that point of truth of, well, actually, I do want these many children or I don't want you to work or whatever it might be.
00:15:41.180And there's a lot to respect about being truthful in a relationship.
00:15:48.120But I think culturally, it's more of a feminized attempt.
00:15:52.600Women tend to be more socially acclimated.
00:15:56.020They worry about social dynamics far more than men do.
00:15:58.980Men tend to be, or not tend to be, men can be more disagreeable than women.
00:16:05.000And so if men are being told to be slightly feminine in their interactions, including within relationships, then we're getting more feminized men who are never getting towards the truth.
00:16:16.980And they're becoming less respectable.
00:16:19.020And they're getting outcomes that are less favorable because no one is talking about the hard thing.
00:16:23.820At some point, someone has to talk about the hard thing.
00:16:33.260We need to have more hard truths when it comes to family creation.
00:16:37.640So, and that's the thing for me as a young man who grew up without his father and growing up with his mother and sister, is that I realized late in my life that I was exhibiting much of that.
00:16:52.040And I was also fueled by fear of rejection because my father rejected me and that sense of rejection is something like I didn't want.
00:17:04.840So, if you're afraid that people are going to leave you, you're going to tend to say things that you think they want to hear because you don't want them to go.
00:17:10.780And by doing that, you're actually increasing the likeliness that they're going to leave you because they don't respect you because they don't want that.
00:17:20.260Women want men who are honest with them, who are truthful with them.
00:17:25.900And that's the type of person that they respect.
00:17:28.720So, I do think we need more honesty when it comes to family creation.
00:17:33.660So, I tend to think of two kinds of behaviors, the combative or competitive behaviors on the one hand, and the more reconciliatory behaviors on the other.
00:17:45.800And it seems to me that things can go too far towards either side.
00:18:12.260And enter into relationships thinking that I'm not going to compromise about anything because I may be compromising about all sorts of things during my weekly life.
00:18:26.720My relationship is something I don't want to compromise on.
00:18:55.260So, I would say that I see also people who try to avoid conflict, but also people who are really, who want to bring about conflict and try to avoid any kind of reconciliation.
00:19:06.800What would you say goes behind that aspect of the problem?
00:20:16.220Like, for example, if, let's say, children aren't born, but you're with someone, and they're like, well, I'm perfectly fine with transing my kid.
00:20:24.020Well, my hard line is, you do not trans children.
00:20:27.680And so I can't compromise from that position.
00:20:30.720And that is something that is a deal breaker.
00:21:39.240So there's give and takes as far as strengths and weaknesses between the sexes.
00:21:44.600One example of what I was talking before and where I'm trying to get at is modern culture and some aspects in it that lead people into not practicing those reconciliator behaviors.
00:21:59.080And one example I can think of is dating apps.
00:22:02.600It seems to me that the illusion of endless choice of partners leads a lot of young people, or a lot of people who use those apps, because they aren't necessarily young, all of them, to constantly break up every time they don't like something.
00:22:19.880Which isn't something that you would expect people of a previous age to do to that extent.
00:22:27.140So would you say that technology is sort of guilty of leading people down to this path where they seem to be a bit more narcissistic or a bit, let's say, self-centered in an imbalanced way?
00:22:44.820Yes, but to give a little bit of grace.
00:22:49.140And I have a theory as to like, because a lot of people complain about the apps, right?
00:22:54.080Because they're not, for many people, it is very, very difficult for them to have long-lasting relationships based on an app where you're essentially a name, a face, an age, and a profile to, you know, essentialize your life.
00:23:09.340And the reason why it's difficult is because everyone's dating a stranger.
00:23:15.000And so what we've done is we've become, especially in the United States, we work 30 minutes away or more.
00:24:00.500Bob, because Bob knows your friend, is less likely to ghost you, to mistreat you, and things like that because there's social ramifications between the two.
00:24:10.920But if there is no connection between the two, then you're on your own as far as deciding.
00:24:36.880Like, you become hypercritical of everyone when everyone has some sort of flaw.
00:24:42.500Or maybe you're so hypercritical that you think that this, well, they were five minutes late.
00:24:49.800So, hence, I'm going to make this be a mountain rather than a molehill.
00:24:54.560So, I think that's part of the problem is that the dating apps create an environment where no one knows each other and they have to be so hypervigilant that they're paranoid about each person they encounter.
00:25:08.340And so, everything becomes a red flag.
00:26:32.080But I want to talk about what a father is.
00:26:34.080And a father is someone who is a balanced individual, who exhibits qualities of good leadership, who is respectable, and by his ability to be respectable, tends to be someone who takes a leadership role within the family.
00:26:54.160And just like any good leadership role, you listen to what other people have to say, and you ultimately make the last choice, right?
00:27:23.480For us, the mother, the mothers should be more nurturing because they are naturally, most women tend to be naturally more nurturing and better at nurturing than the fathers.
00:28:40.200Every man and woman, father and mother is a little bit different.
00:28:42.360But I think if they lean on what feels natural to them, then they'll eventually come out and it'll show up in a way that tends to be balanced.
00:28:54.980And listen, I tend to be more empathetic at times than maybe the average guy is.
00:29:04.500Like, everybody has their deviations between the two.
00:29:07.240So, how would you say modern culture leads people to deviate from that ideal as far as family is concerned?
00:29:18.160Well, it tends to have them deviate from it because they make everything external.
00:29:23.720It makes everything about, for example, and my biggest gripe is fathers become only income earners.
00:29:31.040It's about the only thing that you do is earn money.
00:29:34.120So, if that's the only thing that they provide in a family, well, what if the mother earns more money or the mother makes just as much money as the father and she can sustain a household by herself?
00:29:48.460Then what's the purpose of the father?
00:29:50.580And so, if the idea is that, well, he only has one significance within a household, then he is optional.
00:29:56.140If she can surpass his economic demands or his economic prowess, then he's just some guy who's taking up space in the house, right?
00:30:37.500So, everyone says, oh, look, he's a great father because they see him with this kid on his shoulders.
00:30:43.020He's walking around the White House and all these things.
00:30:45.680Well, you can't be a great father if you're a great father to some of your kids, right?
00:30:50.340And he's allowed to be reckless and create children from all over the country because he's rich.
00:30:58.420And that's not what a great father is.
00:31:00.680So, in many ways, the idea that a man is only an income earner, that's his only use, well, then that guy gets to be reckless and create children all over the place, and no one bats an eye.
00:31:22.900And I would venture to say, because his father's a workaholic who is all over the country and is not giving his children adequate attention.
00:31:35.060And so, there is a bit of resentment when it comes from his child that hates him.
00:31:41.080And to me, that seems to make sense more so than, is there a woke mind virus?
00:31:47.960But that child was primed to take on that woke mind virus, right?
00:31:52.900You didn't protect them from the woke mind virus because you weren't there.
00:31:57.600And you can't be a good father if you're only a good father to some of your kids.
00:32:01.060So, I do think that element of men are only income earners and blah, blah, blah, has given this free pass to reckless rich men who create children with all different types of women.
00:32:12.580And they pay them off and no one bats an eye.
00:32:15.280And they still get to say, oh, they're good fathers.
00:33:09.460So do you think that this really materialistic way of viewing things also makes things worse by setting parents into competition with each other?
00:33:44.380If you want to do something, it's not hurting someone else, go ahead and do those things.
00:33:50.520But just like anything else, you know, eating good food is good, but if you eat too much of it, it's gluttonous, right?
00:33:57.460So there's an element of individualism where it becomes gluttonous in our society, where we say, well, I want to do the things I want to do, and I don't care about these other things.
00:34:09.560And in the times that we need to sacrifice, we are rationalizing our reasons why we should not sacrifice.
00:34:17.060Or what's best for me is best for the child, which is supposed to be the opposite, right?
00:34:23.160What is best for the child is the thing that I'm supposed to do.
00:34:27.360If it benefits me, then I'm the side effect to the thing that benefits my child.
00:34:33.080And I think it's that constant pursuit of individualism.
00:34:38.220And sometimes that pursuit of individualism becomes a competition as well in that relationship dynamic.
00:34:44.800I've seen way more women who are within relationships with men they don't like.
00:34:52.300And what I mean by that, and it sounds strange, what I mean by that is they don't respect them.
00:35:21.700And I think within my book, there's a chapter called The Daughters We Disappoint.
00:35:26.260I think for a lot of the women who are like that, who don't respect men in general, not just like, oh, this guy.
00:35:32.340In general, there is a level of animosity towards men.
00:35:35.800It's because of that disappointment from their father, whether it was their father was abusive or something of that nature, or he was absent in their life.
00:35:48.440Their father is the prototype of all men.
00:35:51.980So if the father wasn't there, then they build up this anger and resentment towards men in general.
00:36:03.380So I've been saying for a while that feminism takes women who have been victimized or who have unresolved childhood trauma and says, it's not just your dad or that guy who sexually assaulted you.
00:36:28.740So it's a very strange, competitive dynamic where the men are just optional pieces of sexual pleasure or of procreation, but they can take them or leave them.
00:36:52.660So when it comes to feminism, I think that one of the main aspects of the kind of feminism I, let's say, disagree with is the one that tries to show, tries to portray a family as something that involves men who aren't going to be there for their children, who are only material providers.
00:37:15.580Because one of the arguments that some feminists give against the traditional family is that if the man works and I don't, I'm going to be dependent upon the man.
00:37:33.040But in another respect, it's also the man who is dependent on the woman to be there more for children.
00:37:41.300That's not ideal because they should be there.
00:37:43.240I'm not talking about absent fathers, but in a way, if, let's say, you have a man who works, a father who works, and a mother who doesn't, it doesn't necessarily imply that the father doesn't depend on the woman as well to raise the children.
00:37:59.400So would you say that feminism on this issue tries to sell this victimhood mentality, which keeps women perennially, psychologically, unliberated by selling them a kind of superficial liberation, which ultimately harms themselves and the family?
00:38:20.000And actually, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, too, because the only guy that would put up with that is a weak man.
00:38:27.760But weak men aren't respectable, and they can run all over them.
00:38:31.160And while they think they need a weak man, they also don't like a weak man, right?
00:38:36.880But it allows them to appear strong, but in many cases, they don't want to be the strong figure.
00:38:43.400The thing about modern-day feminism is that it tells women to be the opposite of what is natural.
00:38:50.820It tells them to go against the natural inclination, right?
00:38:55.060And so many of their natural inclinations, they're told to do the opposite, and that makes them miserable, which is why they look miserable half the time.
00:39:02.920No woman wants to get with a man that's weak, right?
00:39:07.380But they'll do it because they're far more afraid of going with a strong man.
00:39:13.260But that strong man is actually someone they're attracted to.
00:39:16.960But they're still afraid to actually move in that direction.
00:39:20.560So it's a very weird dynamic that these different ideologies are telling people to adhere to.
00:39:28.900It's telling them to do the opposite of their natural inclination.
00:39:31.900Yeah, and also to sort of penalize them if they try to deviate from it.
00:45:41.940And by giving up your parental status to be your friend is actually for the benefit of the parent, not for the child.
00:45:49.120And what tends to happen is that parent is doing it because it's easier in the short term to be your child's friend, to just give them whatever they ask for, to not lead them, to not discipline them, to not teach them anything.
00:46:05.300So if they want a cookie, just give them a cookie.
00:46:21.980So you're demoting yourself by doing that.
00:46:24.600And ultimately, what happens in those relationships is that that two-year-old that you wanted to be friends with becomes 12 and 13.
00:46:32.880And their reaction is that my parents don't love me enough to tell me to not put my hand on the stove, to not do these things, to not be gluttonous, to stay away from these people, to not do drugs, to not drink.
00:46:48.200They just said, go ahead, and they facilitated it, because it was easier than getting momentary pushback from a child that doesn't know better.
00:46:59.460How can you be authoritative, an authoritative figure, without being tyrannical?
00:47:05.040One, there has to be a culture of honesty between both parties.
00:50:35.02010 out of 10, I would go as far as saying 10 times out of 10, it's not going to fix the root cause of the behavior that they're exhibiting.
00:50:42.400So you have to, and this is a lot of work, which is why, like, hitting a child is quick.
00:50:59.760I wanted my son, where if he was in a situation and he messed up, I want him to come and talk to me and tell me so we can figure it out together and so we can move forward.
00:51:13.540It's to make sure that he knows that I love him and then we, if you screw up, we all mess up, you know, and you're a kid, you're going to screw up.
00:51:22.960And you're a parent, you're going to mess up.
00:51:25.260And it's to humble yourself but also listen to what your child has to say.
00:51:29.940So for me as a parent, I always tried to make sure that if I mess up, and there were times where I was frustrated at something at work and I'm driving in traffic and all this stuff, and he would get in the car.
00:51:42.640And I'm just annoyed, and I raised my voice at him, and I didn't need to, and I could see, like, it affected him.
00:51:49.680And then later on, I would go to him and apologize because that's not, that wasn't right for me to do that.
00:51:55.100That was from here, and I put it on you.
00:52:02.200So, you know, while I am an authority figure, I am friendly with my child, recognizing, like, there's an area we don't cross, and he knows that.
00:52:10.980But he also respects and loves me enough where now that he's an adult, he's 19, he will come to me.
00:52:19.840He's not afraid to tell his dad, like, dad, I messed up, or I don't know what to do, and I'm not going to scold him.
00:58:18.420They're never told no, and they become resentful, and they become spoiled, and they become dredges on our society.
00:58:25.480And these are also, like, in many cases, like the Gen Z kids who end up in a workforce where they crumble when their boss says, you did this wrong.
00:58:35.680It's like, no one ever tells me I'm doing it wrong, you know?
00:58:38.620And they never get the bite sides of reality when they were kids.
01:05:52.240You know, there are things that, many of the things that my mother did that I tried to replicate and I think was good.
01:05:59.240And there are some things that I don't agree with.
01:06:02.360And those are the things that I tried to alter moving forward.
01:06:08.100But it's more likely if you are telling yourself that narrative that you do not want to be your parents, that you will likely not do that thing.
01:06:17.920But if you are mindless, you're going to do the things that are familiar and comfortable, even if they're detrimental.
01:06:25.800And would you say that modern culture tries to give us the notion that we have no agency?
01:06:50.740So you are always chronically depressed.
01:06:54.020It would be like if I broke my leg and I said, yes, but I'm always a person with a broken leg.
01:06:59.840And it's like, well, no, you can heal, right?
01:07:01.840We wouldn't identify as a person with a broken leg.
01:07:03.960But there are things that within mental health that you can overcome, right, with repetition, with a change in mindset, with mindfulness, with behavioral corrections.
01:07:18.340And so especially for me as someone who had suicidal ideations, depressions, things like that, I don't have those things anymore.
01:07:25.260But I didn't take drugs to overcome it, which drugs don't really help you all that much.
01:07:31.400They mostly just sedate you and prolong the process.
01:09:12.920So I tend to be an addict because it's Jeanette.
01:09:14.960But it's like, no, there's a whole bunch of personal decisions along the way.
01:09:19.640And more often than not, I would venture to say someone who has that type of problem is sedating themselves for some particular reason.
01:09:29.060They're not just drinking just a drink.
01:09:30.620There's something going on where they've lost control and they're doing it too much.
01:09:34.480And as far as the tough part of what you said, suicidal ideation is concerned.
01:09:41.520And what is your advice for people who would feel this way?
01:09:46.920Well, for one, I'm a big advocate of proper therapy.
01:09:53.080Improper therapy is when you go in there and they're like your buddy and all you do is tell them your problems and you cry and you go home.
01:10:01.720A good therapist obviously wants to hear your story and hear where you're coming from.
01:10:08.320But at the end, they're supposed to give you a strategy to overcome or mindfulness, a way to recognize that these particular things are the cause as to why you see the world in this particular way.
01:10:21.540And so ultimately, therapists are supposed to help you to a point where they lose a client, right?
01:10:41.200And so if you have a good therapist, you're only going to them for a period of time because you're able to talk it out.
01:10:47.260You're able to identify the source of what is making you suicidal or the source of your issue.
01:10:53.760And you're able to strategize as far as how you manage this to a point where you can move forward and you can overcome it with time because it does take time to do these things.
01:11:06.320Another thing I would say that's realistic, especially for men, is get small wins.
01:12:39.960You have to get these small wins and those small wins will turn into bigger wins in the long run.
01:12:45.100And I'm glad to say about a year later, because I only had one phone call with him and I would periodically check up on him, see how he was doing.
01:12:52.680And a year later, he said, I'm back at work, but in a different area at the, he was worked at a hospital.
01:13:00.020And he was like, thank you so much for that, because that call really helped me and changed the trajectory.
01:13:06.240So in many ways, like, I really wish more people would reach out.
01:13:09.920And to me, when I saw that, that's like a sign of distress, because he didn't have to write that.
01:13:16.680But he also didn't know that someone was going to respond and actually care about his life.
01:13:21.620So I think those small wins really help someone who is suicidal, because suicidal ideation is basically linked with hopelessness.
01:13:33.240And if there's no hope, then what's the point of living?
01:14:49.460That takes a sense of, we need to work this out between us, right?
01:14:53.740We have to stop competing against each other and trying to always be right.
01:14:58.340Say you're sorry and move forward and rekindle that love that started this family being created in the first place.
01:15:04.640But for sure, I'm not one of those divorce abolitionist people.
01:15:07.740There are definitely situations where the, the lesson being learned in the household is incredibly detrimental to the children and splitting apart and trying to co-parent would be more beneficial.
01:15:20.000But I'm also not quick to tell people, oh, they're not on your page, up and leave them.