The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1175

00:00:00.000 good afternoon ladies and gentlemen welcome to the podcast the low-seaters for thursday the 29th

00:00:13.080 of may 2025 i almost said 2022 for some reason time stopped in my mind if not everywhere else

00:00:19.900 today i'm joined by stephen and nima parvini and we are going to be talking about how the americans

00:00:25.560 are coming because they're taking free speech very seriously and trump is warring with his own

00:00:30.220 judges because really who decides to set policy in the united states and whether nigel farage is

00:00:36.180 actually the voice of the working class and not the labor party uh which they've taken this very

00:00:42.960 badly because this actually seems to be a genuine weakness that they have perceived themselves to

00:00:48.240 have so that is wonderful uh so before we begin at 7 p.m today we have another free webinar for the

00:00:54.520 trivium where we are going to be talking about the most important part rhetoric this is by far my

00:01:00.500 favorite part of the trivium and just the most interesting because uh as dr parvini pointed out

00:01:06.000 this is where you you look after you've learned all the rules this is where you get to break them

00:01:09.620 so that's the the good bit anyway so let's let's begin you will remember a few months back when trump

00:01:17.600 uh came into office back in the middle of february uh and vance uh decided to go over to europe and

00:01:25.120 make them cry by explaining to them uh free speech is important actually you communists and they

00:01:32.080 took this very badly i mean one german mp actually did stand up in public and cry actual tears over it

00:01:39.740 which i enjoyed um and and so starmer excuse me starmer realized which way the wind was blowing

00:01:49.660 and so he went over the united states and decided to do the honorable and decent thing and just lie

00:01:55.640 through his teeth uh when he was like oh yes uh free speech in britain yes that's that's definitely

00:02:02.280 something we have mr president we have a long i mean this is the exact quote we have a long we've we've

00:02:08.180 had free speech for a very very long time in the uk and it will last for a very very long time

00:02:13.020 certainly we wouldn't reach across the earth citizens we don't and that's absolutely right

00:02:16.260 but in relation to free speech in the uk i'm very proud of our history here does anyone think we have

00:02:21.300 free speech in this country i don't know anyone really does apart from you know the kind of small

00:02:26.740 group of elites who want to continue with the fact that we haven't got free speech but they'll pretend

00:02:31.720 it's there i don't know if they even pretend i i saw a a discussion on bbc uh you know a panel

00:02:38.360 discussion and there was a woman from the telegraph i think it was who who was trying to make the

00:02:44.420 argument we we maybe could have free speech and then her interlocutor was like yeah but we've never

00:02:49.800 had free speech over here have we she was like well no no i've noticed this sneaky thing that jacob

00:02:55.420 reese mogg does and some tories do which is they they do this little sleight of hand where they

00:03:01.300 reframe it as freedom of the press notice that freedom of the press interesting it's like well

00:03:07.340 you have free speech you know as long as you're writing for the sun or as long as you're writing

00:03:11.360 for the daily telegraph or something like that i've seen them narrow it down to freedom of the

00:03:15.940 parliamentarians as well uh it's like oh great well i'm so glad that 650 people in this country have

00:03:21.680 free speech uh but anyway the point being is that everyone knew that uh starmer was lying through

00:03:27.520 his teeth come the end of february and uh the americans kept going on about this you'll remember

00:03:33.680 that uh donald trump made free speech uh one of the key parts of his trade deal with the united

00:03:39.520 kingdom uh when asked about the comments a source familiar with the trade negotiations told the

00:03:44.340 telegraph quote no free trade without free speech i mean i like the sound of that oh i love it

00:03:51.100 that sounds amazing uh i guess starmer just carried on lying through his teeth and the thing is the

00:03:56.940 trump administration is paying attention to britain because of course being nativists themselves you

00:04:02.660 can't really be an american nativist without having some kind of goodwill towards the united kingdom

00:04:08.360 because of course we're the place that the americans came from originally and so they've been paying

00:04:13.600 close attention to us for quite a while and this is just a fascinating article that the uh the

00:04:20.060 telegraph have provided to us in which they list a series of the high profile cases that the trump

00:04:26.880 administration has been paying attention to so i thought we'd go through a few of them yeah just to

00:04:30.800 make the point that no we don't have free speech and when starmer tells you that we do have free

00:04:34.720 speech he's lying because he's the one who agrees with the way that the suppression should be set up

00:04:41.200 so the first one is the case of livia tosiki bolt and this is one of the interesting things about

00:04:47.760 this is the trump administration being a christian administration is very much concerned with what

00:04:53.520 they would call pro-life activism and so this is a pro-life campaigner who she is a pro-life campaigner

00:05:00.480 who is being prosecuted after she held a sign outside an abortion clinic uh that said here to talk if

00:05:06.820 you want now this i don't think is terribly controversial or provocative but for some reason in the united

00:05:15.380 kingdom abortion is some kind of sacred right that women have that you're not even really allowed to

00:05:20.960 question and so it's not really a hot political issue here at the moment it's just something on the

00:05:27.080 realm of 250 000 abortions happen every year and everyone says if moloch demands it i suppose uh and

00:05:35.480 we don't really talk about it uh so those people who have been arrested for praying quietly in their

00:05:41.760 heads outside of abortion clinics the state oppression looks all the more peculiar because

00:05:47.120 it's not like there's a huge crowd of people screaming that you're going to hell or something

00:05:53.160 for doing this uh it's i guess it's there by implication it's as simple and plain and and as

00:05:58.720 calm as you can get in any form of protest it's the martin luther king of of quiet protest over that

00:06:06.140 particular view and why is it the left can turn around and say we want peaceful protest for change

00:06:10.940 but not a few peaceful protest opposing you know our shibboleth of abortion and therefore we're going

00:06:17.600 to implement a quite radical and discriminatory piece of legislation and that allows us to have

00:06:24.020 a criminal act by banning you from a certain area around a building i mean it itself is a breach of

00:06:29.660 freedom of speech and freedom of movement but it's also comical when the police ask them are you

00:06:35.600 praying in your head and they say yes they're right right you're under arrest and they actually have

00:06:41.160 been arrested for praying in their own heads anyway moving on the next one is adam smith connor

00:06:45.360 who uh was one of the people also convicted for praying outside of an abortion clinic uh he was a

00:06:54.640 51 year old former army veteran uh he was given two-year conditional discharge in order to pay

00:07:00.440 nine thousand pounds for breaching a ban on protest within a legal buffer zone uh jd vance of course

00:07:06.840 has taken a particular interest in this one because again they are actually christians like we might

00:07:12.280 be an island of atheists but they take this seriously and if our what is now christian minority

00:07:17.340 seek to exercise what the americans perceive as their free speech rights in pursuit of their religious

00:07:22.700 convictions this matters to them even though for some reason doesn't matter to us anyway the next one

00:07:27.780 is tyler k k was jailed for 38 months after writing an offensive anti-immigration post on x during the

00:07:34.200 southport riots uh his post was very similar to lucy connelly's post uh he said quote mass deportation

00:07:40.580 now set fire to the effing hotels full of the bastards for all i care if that makes me a racist so

00:07:45.820 be it he's very similar uh he pled guilty and the new northampton crown court uh sentenced him to

00:07:54.540 was it 38 months again and uh elon musk signal boosted this calling it messed up uh with a post

00:08:01.260 that attracted 31 million views so interesting i'd be interested to have seen what would happen if he

00:08:07.160 took a trial by jury i suspect that he would have actually gone and this is why i know not guilty

00:08:12.160 yeah i pled not guilty everyone should have pled not guilty to it and everyone should have gone into

00:08:18.060 the crown courts and then we could have been able to have even more interesting cases to come out

00:08:22.520 because then they've got to prove the evidence on a number of cases it would delay the courts it would

00:08:26.940 have created issues um and and and that's their legal right their legal right to do so what is

00:08:32.380 fascinating is how you keep hearing time and time again the due to solicitor or the solicitor at the

00:08:37.620 time said plead guilty and you'll get credit and they got no credit and these are solicitors who are

00:08:42.960 given by the state yes because the i think many of these people probably had no criminal records had no

00:08:49.020 legal interaction with the state in any way no didn't have a lawyer of their own didn't know what

00:08:52.740 they were doing and they were just advised by the state appointed lawyer just plead guilty and you'll

00:08:56.860 be fine bro none of them were none of them were none of them were so uh anyway moving on we'll we'll

00:09:02.700 skip over that chap and come back to him in a minute uh we have allison pearson who is a an award-winning

00:09:08.060 telegraph columnist so let's talk about the freedom of the press again shall we uh she's uh an award-winning

00:09:15.120 writer being investigated for allegedly stirring up racial hatred of the social media post made

00:09:19.020 november last year two police officers called at home at 9 40 a.m on remembrance sunday sunday to

00:09:24.620 tell her that she was under investigation and invited to a voluntary interview and so this is

00:09:28.500 an ongoing case uh this of course uh got a bit of a backlash because hang on a second isn't this one

00:09:34.220 of our own hang on what are you doing you can't be investigating one of ours part of the media class

00:09:39.940 this is a meant to be a protected person uh which goes to show you that there are no protected people

00:09:45.600 and the the last one here that we'll cover is darren brady an army veteran 51 uh who was arrested for

00:09:54.340 quote causing anxiety because he put up a meme of a swastika which was made up of the four lgbt pride

00:10:01.100 flags and so the police turned up at his house and said quote someone has been caused anxiety based on

00:10:06.740 your social media post it's apparently a crime now yeah and this is what jonathan sumption was talking

00:10:13.320 about i mean although i disagreed with his analysis of lucy connolly he did explain very clearly

00:10:18.960 that the extension of the public order act to allow uh just causing anxiety and and concern

00:10:26.520 we're not there and also the fact that they are so connected to the individual who makes the claim

00:10:32.460 rather than anything ostensibly factually provable you can just say it even if you don't feel it

00:10:38.980 and and and and i'm surprised that you know we don't fill the courts ourselves and fill the police

00:10:45.900 time ourselves with those on the conservative side of it by saying exactly the same day in day out about

00:10:51.660 people like o'brien on lbc let's constantly do that make a mockery of it completely in favor of

00:10:58.580 malicious compliance yeah uh i mean i i hate to do the um oh what if the other side you know did it

00:11:07.340 yeah i agree but i mean on this on this case it is absurd it's not that long ago when the left were

00:11:14.340 arguing with an open face with with a kind of um you know they were arguing straight that the likes of

00:11:22.440 you carl should just be allowed your free game to you know throw milkshake over you or to you know

00:11:28.920 any more extreme case uh do you remember the whole thing it's all right to just punch richard spencer in

00:11:34.160 the face because you don't like what he says absolutely um or i remember for ages over this

00:11:39.160 bridge i used to drive under there was a there was a um there was a banner which simply just said

00:11:44.580 hang the tories okay now look you don't have to like tories nobody hates the tories more than us

00:11:51.020 nobody just likes the tories more than more than us uh you don't have to like carl you don't have

00:11:55.360 to like richard spencer but the the point is is that when it comes to them blm was not that long ago

00:12:01.040 no it's it's almost like they say well actually actual violence is fair game for us but speech is

00:12:07.620 not fair game for you and in all of those debates they even frame it as if they've got a right to

00:12:15.080 violence yeah in those in those cases um so yeah this is this is one of those cases where there is

00:12:20.880 uh just a just a ribald uh double standard a play in the in the whole debate and i think one of the

00:12:28.820 things that's very clear to people and very clear to those in the united states and uh i have to admit

00:12:34.000 i was on um what they call a spaces last night in the u.s between two and four in the morning so you

00:12:40.260 know my eyes start falling asleep it's pretty much there but on that spaces the americans were just

00:12:46.200 so concerned yes about what was happening in here when i talked about the need to have

00:12:51.320 organizations funded the americans saying we can help how can we help you can we deal with this in

00:12:56.940 supporting you in in that and then the question popped up you said you know you left britain to

00:13:02.800 come out to the united states for freedom how can we is it possible that we can also offer you all

00:13:08.580 asylum as well from your country and and i said well yeah at the moment many of us are fighting for it

00:13:13.800 but there are those who turn around to our children and say don't bother staying here go to the united

00:13:18.600 states it's a freer place to be and that's a shocking stakes affairs when you hear that

00:13:23.760 but they are concerned about us the stereotype on the american right at the moment is not unfounded

00:13:29.760 in that britain is not a country that has liberty as they understand it yeah they they have a much higher

00:13:36.820 bar to what freedom is that we do and this like you say it's completely common and all like i'm

00:13:43.260 friends with lots of um fairly large names on the american right and that they ask me is it really

00:13:50.240 like we're saying it's like yes it's really like it's being reported uh the the the difference i

00:13:57.360 think and the thing that i think the american right needs to understand when they're looking at these is

00:14:02.400 that the targets are usually chosen with uh deliberate intention uh they for example we'll go to the

00:14:12.240 example of tommy robinson actually who of course was another very important um voice in this and

00:14:19.080 notice that the the telegraph tommy robinson known for his extreme views on muslims and his propensity

00:14:23.800 to stop racial attitude okay well tell me what they are like what's the quote i hear that he has these

00:14:28.180 views but i'm actually lacking a quote of what tommy robinson has said about muslims um but anyway

00:14:33.900 the point uh is that he was targeted but he didn't have to go to jail it was to prove a point that he

00:14:44.540 published his documentary silenced on twitter that got something like 160 million views uh he wouldn't

00:14:52.360 have gone to jail for this if he had not done that but he was very firmly in the crosshairs um and

00:14:59.400 essentially he goaded the establishment say look you have to do this or else uh i'm going to get

00:15:05.820 away with it but the the point being in other cases they they're very reticent to target high

00:15:10.860 profile people they post they they they target people for who example would have had a few hundred

00:15:16.840 views on their tweets uh to make examples out of the powerless for example you know they haven't come

00:15:23.000 for me or you or they they haven't come for any of us not that we know that we might have non-hate

00:15:28.580 crime we doubtless do and if they wanted to they could but they know that we're connected in a

00:15:35.500 network of activists that have sympathetic ears uh all over the place and that we will make a big

00:15:42.700 deal out of these things now there is there is with some it see that what makes this confusing is

00:15:48.540 that not all of these cases are the same and i mean i don't want to you know make apologies for the

00:15:53.920 state or whatnot but there it there's a difference between the silent prayer and an active court i mean

00:15:59.600 if you've been on twitter for any amount of time everybody knows don't fed post on main right

00:16:05.380 everybody knows that as a piece of advice so there is a there's probably a debate to be had about

00:16:10.820 an active now where it gets tricky is that leftists i mean i i'm old enough to remember do you remember

00:16:18.400 the the trump head do you remember that yes i remember that the human is it with the blood

00:16:23.460 dripping with the blood dripping i mean all of the what what is that people openly calling for the

00:16:30.340 yes i mean do you remember the trump assassination yeah right so again it's one of those cases where

00:16:35.400 it's kind of fair game for them to wish kind of death and violence on their opponents but this will

00:16:41.660 you know and these people in jail but there probably is a debate to be had about you know i do we want

00:16:49.720 the country to be like absolute free speech you're allowed anything goes period or is there is there a

00:16:58.080 line somewhere uh realistically when it comes to but this is the whole don't say uh don't shout fire in a

00:17:06.440 in a theater type thing that's fake there's not i mean i know that's not many times but that's

00:17:11.680 actually not great you can shout fire in a crowd of theater i don't know why it's a persistent myth

00:17:16.560 okay well americans can do that yeah but even in the united states they have limitations and we

00:17:24.020 supposedly have two four main principle limitations the first is a principle of live libel

00:17:30.560 whether you commit slander or be libelous to them and and that's that's pretty much okay you can't

00:17:37.200 turn around or you shouldn't be able to turn around and say someone's a pedophile without evidence of it

00:17:42.340 and destroy their career except that we have made the the issue of libel and slander um so difficult for

00:17:50.500 the ordinary citizen to make a claim that even someone like lawrence fox whose career was definitely

00:17:55.480 destroyed because they called him a racist the court would not accept what a racist was

00:18:00.420 and would not define it and allow him to be called that name so again you have this argument by

00:18:06.600 people that part now only supports the left and the second is the criminal side of things you know

00:18:12.060 where we turn around you say you can't turn around and say let's if you're standing in a street there's

00:18:17.040 that man he's a muslim therefore let's go and set fire to him and burn him alive that true is incitement

00:18:22.980 and the question that we have to balance ourselves is whether someone really on x and twitter

00:18:28.940 making a statement like lucy connelly or this chap that i unfortunately had not heard about

00:18:33.280 is actually genuine doing a call to arms to actually set fire to these hotels or whether

00:18:38.760 common sense says that these people are in a state of emotional trauma caused by the deaths of so many

00:18:45.420 children at the hands of a mass murderer who was pretty evil in his own right whether they really

00:18:49.800 meant let's go out and set fire to these hotels with people in it and that is the question that a jury

00:18:55.300 i believe should have been asked and they should have been done rather than venting letting off

00:19:00.700 steam absolutely venting and letting off steam like you say sometimes when you see somebody in a pub

00:19:05.040 or you think oh god look there he is he's had 10 pints he's going to the wind and he starts screaming

00:19:09.960 about you know ferguson being the worst manager ever so you know you know what's interesting i read a

00:19:14.520 couple of books about the death penalty a couple of years ago because i was there i'm you know i was

00:19:18.620 i was interested in forming a proper opinion on the death penalty yeah and one thing that uh one of

00:19:25.060 these books was pointing out is that the the death penalty required a unanimous decision by the jury

00:19:30.000 for the judge to be able to issue it so on paper the law was if you stole x amount of shillings or if

00:19:36.740 you did this that's it death penalty uh and the the softening of the law was done by the juries

00:19:42.480 themselves and so the juries would essentially agree okay we think he is guilty of doing this but we don't

00:19:47.580 we're not all going to unanimously agree to the death penalty so he'll get whatever punishment in

00:19:51.960 prison or flogging or whatever it is uh and so you have the option of the harshest punishment in the

00:19:59.920 correct times where it's needed uh but because it's as you say like um falling back on the sort of mercy

00:20:06.580 of the jury who themselves are just normal people and so they use their gut instinct very very fairly

00:20:12.780 actually and so what this actually meant is that in england though we had something like 230

00:20:17.040 statutes that were on the books that you could get the death penalty for you'd get something like

00:20:22.600 half a dozen executions a year yes and so instead of like you know because what you think of there'll

00:20:27.340 be hundreds and thousands of executions but it actually very rarely happened because the juries

00:20:32.120 would take into account the mitigating circumstances of the person and that's precisely what's missing as

00:20:36.420 you're saying in this case i agree and on that particular issue i've looked at the death penalty and

00:20:41.180 like so many people they want to say okay we want to kill pedophiles and mass murderers i'm no longer

00:20:49.720 of the view that we have the death penalty why because of this because i believe that we will be pushed by

00:20:57.740 our government into a situation where memes like this and statements like that could potentially have

00:21:03.940 the death penalty attached to it and we give the state the opportunity of being able to extend it i don't

00:21:09.620 trust them that's the problem i don't trust the state not to extend it to views of our side

00:21:14.620 just to be clear where all these cases because i know i know that in the case of the southport

00:21:19.500 uh mass mass arrests there were the turbo courts weren't there yes all of all of those cases just had

00:21:26.180 a judge there was no jury is that right that they just sped them through they sped them through

00:21:29.980 the magistrates courts and where all the offenses were technically either either way which meant you

00:21:35.640 could be tried in a magistrate court or a crown court the these solicitors who were acting on behalf

00:21:42.820 of the defense all said stay in the magistrates court because it's a lower sentence and plead guilty

00:21:48.700 because you will get a softening of that sentence where those people ignored that advice and said no

00:21:54.420 i'm going to the crown court most of them i think statistically have actually been acquitted

00:22:00.320 whereas in the magistrates court it's then decided by either a single judge or it was a trio of judges

00:22:08.620 but most of them as i understand were actually dealt with by a single judge very quickly so anyway moving

00:22:13.400 on uh the trump administration is uh not taking this lightly and they're not standing down on this

00:22:19.840 so recently they sent a five-person team from the u.s state department to come over to the united

00:22:25.000 kingdom and interview campaigners to give the feedback to the white house uh they met with

00:22:30.660 five activists across in the uk who'd been arrested for silently protesting outside of abortion clinics

00:22:35.700 and the diplomats uh the diplomats from the u.s bureau of democracy human rights and labor

00:22:40.240 traveled to london in march in an effort to affirm the importance of freedom of expression in the uk and

00:22:45.020 across europe they were led by samuel samson a senior advisor to the state department and met with

00:22:50.520 officials with the foreign from the foreign office and challenged ofcom on the online safety act

00:22:54.900 which was also a point of contention in the white house so they're taking this very very seriously

00:23:00.920 they're paying a lot of attention and they're not happy with what they see and to be honest with

00:23:06.640 you it's hard to feel that they're in the wrong with this i think i mean is it it's hard to think

00:23:12.460 that anyone could really summon up a proper argument for you posted a meme of a swastika pride flag on

00:23:18.920 twitter and now you're under arrest right how do you how do you summon up a proper argument for

00:23:24.360 you made someone feel anxious to me thinking politically especially what i mean given what

00:23:30.260 we're going to discuss and where starm has gone with the islands of strangers speech to me this

00:23:34.760 would just be such a quick and easy win for the government to just say look we've got this wrong

00:23:40.420 things have got too far trump has got a point that we are the original democracy blah blah blah the

00:23:47.100 oldest parliament from now on you know and they could easily pass like i don't know the free speech

00:23:53.500 act or something well all they need all they need to do is actually repeal some of the amendments

00:23:59.080 to the original public order acts and several of them and and it's a it's a repealing and actually

00:24:05.240 the repealing would be much more significant than passing a new act because what it would say

00:24:10.700 is that we're making a break with those pieces of legislation that have damaged the concept of

00:24:17.620 freedom of speech in this country we've listened we've understood there be deleted and that would

00:24:22.820 be much more significant because then it would also have an impact in the courts what what that

00:24:26.600 would do is take away the power of the little petty bully police officer who's like right i've got

00:24:31.580 them under various amendments of some obscure nonsense act that was passed in 2007 or whatever it is

00:24:37.680 uh it would just remove all of that yes so that would all go away uh stripping the power from them

00:24:43.520 so rather than like you say create new legislation but anyway so uh they they met them uh the the

00:24:49.680 telegraph found out about it and of course various trump allies such as charlie kirk have been raising

00:24:55.080 the issue of lucy connolly and a state department spokesman uh has said the uk us relations share a

00:25:00.060 mutual respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms uh however as president van stead we're very

00:25:05.640 concerned about freedom of expression in the uk uh and it's important that the uk respects and

00:25:10.340 protects freedom of expression the thing is ultimately now we don't view expression as a human

00:25:16.820 right we view and we view expression as the source of danger and that is fundamentally uh the opposite

00:25:25.220 opinion that the united states have they view that the freedom of expression of an individual is a source of

00:25:30.760 liberty uh not the source of oppression it's a much longer conversation to go into with that which i

00:25:37.020 won't uh do now but the uh the next thing and the final thing is marco rubio coming out strong again

00:25:43.160 and i honestly i just love the rhetoric that he's using at this point uh where he's like look if a

00:25:48.680 foreign government threatens to censor tech platforms we're going to start coming after you we are going to

00:25:54.180 make sure you don't do this to us and it's very much couched in the language of the american birthright

00:26:02.440 and i absolutely adore this listen to this he says for too long americans have been fined harassed and even

00:26:08.300 charged by foreign authorities for exercising their free speech rights today i am announcing a new visa

00:26:13.280 restriction policy that will apply to foreign officials and persons who are complicit in censoring americans

00:26:19.220 i hope you're listening to this keir i know you were thinking can we just go after twitter can we

00:26:24.120 ban twitter didn't you summon uh someone in fact recently didn't they summon elon musk or someone like

00:26:29.780 that there was you know they did they did yeah they did yeah and he ignored them he of course he

00:26:34.780 ignored them but the point is you know who do you think you are is that what the the question he's

00:26:40.140 asking free speech is essential to the american way of life a birthright over which foreign governments

00:26:45.160 have no authority and he also uh criticized the efforts of foreign governments to censor tech

00:26:50.960 platforms he says it's unacceptable for foreign officials to issue or threaten arrest warrants on

00:26:55.500 u.s citizens or u.s residents the social media posts on american platforms while physically present

00:26:59.840 in u.s soil it's similarly unacceptable for foreign officials to demand that american tech platforms adopt

00:27:04.920 global content moderation policies or engage in censorship activity that extends that reaches beyond

00:27:11.080 their authority and into the united states whether in latin america europe or elsewhere the day of the

00:27:17.840 days of passive treatment for those who work to undermine the rights of americans are over i mean that is

00:27:22.960 bloody strong and must have put the wind up our establishment in particular in addition to the

00:27:30.000 european establishment well i i hope so because i got a message yesterday um saying that a team of people

00:27:35.600 um of the u.s had actually been in contact also with ofcom watch oh yeah that's what i read about

00:27:42.200 who were taking the challenge on behalf of organizations like gab uh up against in a judicial

00:27:50.200 review in a high court um trial against ofcom for the way that they're looking at these rules

00:27:56.080 and the message was that the u.s admin is about to impose phase one travel sanctions against british

00:28:03.040 government officials involved in censorship of u.s technology companies and and i and i asked so

00:28:09.820 who was who was top of the list and he went dame melanie doors the chief executive of ofcom

00:28:14.580 now that may have been tongue-in-cheek sure but i don't sure you never know but you never know but

00:28:21.140 wouldn't that be a delight if you turn around and said i'm sorry dame you're no longer welcome in

00:28:25.560 the united states and you'll never be allowed to use dollars or any banking facilities again because we

00:28:30.440 put sanctions on you which means you won't be able to travel in many countries in the world and won't

00:28:34.400 be able to use a lot of the financial markets it could be a bizarre scenario when they really start

00:28:37.940 looking into ofcom that it leads back to peter mandelson who was the currently the u.s ambassador

00:28:42.740 yeah like peter mandelson gets with the sanction because he said he was instrumental in setting up

00:28:47.780 ofcom yeah absolutely the the point being i didn't get to vote for trump but if i had this would

00:28:52.900 be exactly what i was voting for so i hope you americans are very happy with what they're doing

00:28:57.980 because i bloody am anyway the engaged few says the man in the gray suit kind of terrifies me when he

00:29:02.380 smiles uh i kind of like it in boas britain he used to be the one who interrogates traitors uh what

00:29:06.760 man in the gray suit um considering the number of people pleading oh right yeah yeah i'm not sure i'm

00:29:11.680 gray considering the number of people pleading guilty i wonder what sort of persuasion is being used

00:29:16.440 uh honestly it was just the intimidation of the authorities the the the charisma of the office

00:29:22.180 uh people didn't know what they were doing and so just conceded assuming that the state had the

00:29:28.140 best interest at heart which of course it doesn't uh akral says if you can't own and carry firearms

00:29:33.000 you are not free the pursuit of safety infringes on liberty it's a long conversation i'm not going

00:29:37.620 to get into uh i like that carl refers to the united states as a plural rather than a singular entity

00:29:42.160 people forget the federal government is a group of sovereign states uh secretary slap a hoe strikes

00:29:47.360 another blow for liberty well then like all i'm saying is uh rubio has done a superb job recently

00:29:52.660 and i absolutely love everything that he's doing and i hope he carries on anyway let's move on

00:29:56.740 well this is this is interesting um so we are going to continue with the kind of stories about what's

00:30:05.480 happening in the united states but this time back on their own turf what's happening in there

00:30:09.900 because as we we can see rubio and others in the united states and elon musk wanted to try and

00:30:16.800 extend their soft power to encourage governments in europe to open up the doors of freedom of speech

00:30:22.740 as they're trying to make changes in the united states the same sort of lawfare that we've we've seen

00:30:29.100 against those six individuals and many more are being used at a grand scale across many states in

00:30:35.820 the united states and the big one uh came across last night i mean he was about seven hours behind

00:30:40.940 us uh in in terms of a very very surprising decision i've got to admit an incredibly uh surprising

00:30:48.820 decision and that is a federal court stated that trump as the president does not have the power to

00:30:57.160 individually impose sorry to impose tariffs unilaterally against other countries i mean this to me

00:31:04.840 is is a kind of shocking uh kind of use of law and i wanted to try and understand it

00:31:10.640 because all we've got so far is a very limited aspect about it not much has come back from as i can

00:31:17.580 see from trump himself or their spokesperson but there is a new york-based court of international trade

00:31:24.060 uh the judges found that the international emergency economic powers act which is how trump has announced

00:31:32.260 the tariffs across the globe does not give him the unlimited power to levy tariffs like the president

00:31:39.420 has in recent months well like that's the question who has the power to actually issue tariffs why is it

00:31:45.540 got to be for congress and i think it's either one is it the senate are they the ones who are allowed

00:31:50.340 to is it the president i i actually asked chat gpt right oh chat gpt tells us that uh the the

00:31:56.100 constitutional authority lies with congress and article one section eight of the u.s constitution

00:31:59.700 ah so we're going to come to that because there is a particular act that that being looked at and

00:32:05.920 the president's assertion here it carries on so that's fascinating how we're going to link that in

00:32:10.140 the assertion of tariff making authority in the instant case unbounded as it is by any limitation

00:32:15.640 in duration of scope exceeds any tariff authority delegated to the president under iepa

00:32:22.980 uh the worldwide and regulate retaliatory tariffs are thus ultravisors and contrary to law so i have

00:32:29.440 not yet had a chance to to fully investigate iepa uh and what it amounts but it was interesting to me

00:32:36.840 we're looking at that uh that we've got another judge i think i think what it's worth noting in this

00:32:42.820 case though is that only congress has that the power is delegated from congress yeah so congress would

00:32:49.240 have to intercede against the president if they wanted to prevent the tariffs that he was laying

00:32:53.860 and the congress is mostly republican at the moment so good luck well this is this is fascinating and

00:33:00.000 i'm going to be looking at the way that i'm looking at that talking to constitutionalists and

00:33:04.220 constitutional lawyers uh which i always find interesting because ted ted cruz used to actually

00:33:10.320 recite the constitution allegedly when he went on dates with uh with with women that he knew when he

00:33:16.160 was when he was a student and apparently that was a real big thing for american women so if you go

00:33:21.140 out there lads if you if you want to be able to chat chat up an american girl at a college cite the

00:33:26.220 cite the 4a 4a.2 yeah constitution it really works but here we've got the we've got iepa which is the

00:33:34.280 the link that we come in this is the conclusion of the court i managed to get some part of the uh the

00:33:39.480 actual court itself and at the top part he tries to talk about he's not authorized to have worldwide

00:33:44.400 retaliatory or traffic in tariffs uh it exceeds his authority all the things we've just mentioned

00:33:49.860 there's no question of narrowly tailored relief it's either all or nothing you know he he's can

00:33:56.900 either give the powers or he doesn't and if you bring that up samson i want to show the the last part

00:34:02.420 the bottom part of this uh in here it's the plaintiff's motion of something granted are granted and

00:34:08.320 their motions for preliminary injunction are denied as moot he effectively as a judge is giving

00:34:14.400 economic policy and trade policy in these two parts of the end and i just find to myself what

00:34:21.840 what authority did you have to be able to interpret trade authority on part you're trying to mask and i do

00:34:30.440 this as a lawyer myself you're trying to mask the constitutional law of the congress granting powers

00:34:36.840 to the united states saying that he exceeds the power that's fine fine but then you're effectively

00:34:42.260 saying he can't exercise the power that he's been granted but where how who when can can he do so

00:34:50.240 so immediately i i kind of thought to myself this is going to be a big challenge

00:34:55.380 for them uh their markets loved it i mean of course i was looking at something like this is something

00:35:02.600 like one o'clock in the morning the u.s markets were already at one percent you know which was bad

00:35:07.300 for me because i'd gone short on the u.s tech so i was losing quite a lot on this now the u.s tech has

00:35:12.940 gone up despite all of this quite heavily heavily um so they loved it asia the markets in asia rallied

00:35:19.860 on the back end of this so who's supporting this who's been behind it a lot of big banks are behind

00:35:25.620 it hedge funds and trade organizations are doing this they're kind of rocking up the market and we're

00:35:30.620 seeing big changes in the market because trump is saying he wants to do one thing he's being

00:35:34.880 challenged in the other then he's having to kind of backtrack they say so he's flip-flopping i don't

00:35:39.760 think he's really flip-flopping i think he's just trying to organize deals in terms of the way it

00:35:44.660 works um and what is it that people are saying well just an ordinary individual i picked up many i

00:35:51.360 just picked this one out of the bag why are the courts in the u.s working against the prosperity of

00:35:56.240 the usa why would a court in new york say that trump cannot impose tariffs against china canada

00:36:01.380 and mexico when they do it to us what the fuck is wrong with the courts i'm so sick of the bullshit

00:36:06.600 and that is what people are in america apart from obviously the elite class are beginning to feel about

00:36:13.620 the court system the same as we're beginning to feel in this country about two-tier justice there is

00:36:20.260 now becoming a breakdown in trust and i hate that as a lawyer myself someone who is a barrister who

00:36:26.100 believes in the courts believes in the rule of law the necessity to be have an ordered state that we

00:36:31.520 now have vast majorities of the public turning around and saying we no longer trust the courts

00:36:37.260 en masse not just an individual lawyer here and there but the whole system is corrupt and that does

00:36:43.840 not bode well for us in the long term no for me it's very difficult not to look at this story

00:36:51.100 because i mean it's inherently bound up with issues of the constitution things like uh you know montesquieu

00:36:58.120 and the separation of powers and all of that all i can think about carl is thomas hobbs joseph de maestra

00:37:05.580 and carl schmidt standing standing wherever they are in the afterlife saying we told you so

00:37:11.520 because basically if you if you follow the arguments of the likes of hobbs de maestra and schmidt who was

00:37:19.660 a who was a german now jurist they said well look ultimately the question in any system is

00:37:26.120 who is sovereign who decides who interprets who decides on the exception and ultimately in any

00:37:36.240 system can only really be one one ruler one body and in america it's not clear who that who that is

00:37:47.540 meant to be and so and what's happened over time is because as i understand it congress and the senate

00:37:54.920 in particular have become so bodged up with various it's so hard to pass legislation and it's become

00:38:02.500 so polarized that what's happened is that the powers have started accumulating in the office of the

00:38:09.460 president and the executive yeah um who who i mean it's not just trump biden had to do it barma had

00:38:16.100 to do it bush uh junior junior had to do it um they had to rely on these emergency powers uh in fact when

00:38:24.200 i was writing uh hang on a second it's a very generous interpretation of this no wait a second

00:38:29.160 though they've had to rely on emergency powers to the extent that emergency powers that were passed

00:38:35.280 by woodrow wilson are still live and on the books and then law like case law is built on the emergency

00:38:43.800 power and you actually get whole institutions when you actually look into it well what's this all based

00:38:48.060 on oh it's something that lbj once said um so so then you get and but then you get a similar

00:38:55.300 concentration of power in the court and then every once in a while you get a big um you get like the

00:39:02.120 president versus the supreme court fdr was famous for this he was always having a run him with with the

00:39:08.020 chief justice and you know every once in a while fdr would say look if you go against me again i'm going

00:39:13.180 to stick 30 judges on this court and i'm going to you know basically i'm the president so you you get

00:39:19.860 this face off what it means in practice though is that over decades upon decades the problem is never

00:39:28.200 really sorted out now maybe this is how the founding fathers designed it but ultimately it's not

00:39:34.680 functional ultimately somebody must decide somebody actually and this is actually an area where i think

00:39:41.620 in this country parliament genuinely is sovereign yeah if if kia starmer wanted to uh abolish the

00:39:48.080 supreme court he could do it tomorrow you know with you're listening yeah boris boris could have done

00:39:53.360 it boris could have done it anytime i mean he should have done herbert spencer the divine right of

00:39:57.880 parliament yeah and and so this this actually goes to the heart of what this constitution is about and

00:40:04.500 whether america actually needs to think because i just find it absurd that some random judge in hawaii

00:40:09.640 can overrule the president so i just want to say what a what a lovely optimistic way of framing the

00:40:16.180 president as if they are innocent of accruing executive power they just had to do it guys

00:40:23.880 they just had to pass the patriarch they just they just had to become executive presidencies

00:40:28.900 where if you look at the use of executive orders they just skyrocket through obama they just had to do it

00:40:34.100 yeah yeah i mean don't get me wrong i'm not saying that they just had to essentially declare the

00:40:39.760 ability to go to war without declaring war which needs to be done through congress they just had to

00:40:43.980 do again very very uh very lovely in the way but you are right but otherwise mitch mcconnell will just

00:40:51.660 sit there like a tersel and just stop anything happening forever so the well i think you'd probably

00:40:56.980 like to do that anyway wouldn't it but the the the issue though that i think that is really coming

00:41:03.400 down to this i think that you were trying to uh you you were hitting on is that the markets obviously do

00:41:10.940 understand that the tariffs are going to be damaging for the economic growth of the united states yes

00:41:16.420 that's not really the question that's being answered by the tariffs as tim here for him it doesn't

00:41:23.400 matter if the gdp goes up what he's questioning is how is my share of that gdp trickling down to me

00:41:29.380 and the use of tariffs is essentially what the left should be agreeing with because it will help the

00:41:35.420 working class actually acquire more of the wealth that actually flows into the united states and is

00:41:39.680 produced by it than rampant free trade globalism will do and so this really i think is the issue and

00:41:46.120 so you can see where the judge has landed on this no i'm against the working people of the united

00:41:51.380 states i'm actually for blackrock and the other international corporations and hedge fund managers

00:41:56.240 who are rallying on the market at the moment and what i find really interesting about the

00:42:00.180 tariffs is it's actually showing you where trump's heart really lies on this yeah uh this this was not

00:42:05.160 a popular thing for him to do and yet he did it anyway and yeah and he's going to be attacked not

00:42:09.940 only by he's being attacked by that by the political parties he's attacked now by allegedly supporters

00:42:15.740 of his in institutions financial institutions who will lose money in bond investment cfds

00:42:22.280 across the country because of this that's why they're also concerned about the stock market fall

00:42:28.220 which for me is as a market watch a market trade it's incredibly strange how it's flying

00:42:33.880 to all-time highs despite the fact of what we're seeing across the globe and the fact that they say

00:42:39.680 this is going to have a massive impact on the dollar a massive impact on trade and the economy

00:42:45.000 and yet the the equity markets are flying you know so there's something completely wrong there either

00:42:50.020 they're all trying to boost it before they get out and then it collapses but the reality is we've got

00:42:55.340 the politics against him we've got the markets against him because they will lose in the short term

00:43:01.240 the working class are with him because they recognize that his new package his policy will actually

00:43:07.840 allow tips not to be taxed and they're saying it's only going to give you a few hundred dollars a

00:43:13.580 month they don't understand a few hundred dollars a month it's a lot to someone who's got absolutely

00:43:18.320 nothing but it's it's not just that though the the arguments against the the tariffs are your cheap

00:43:23.300 tap from china will cost more yeah i i know yeah i accept uh but i might be able to get a better job

00:43:29.960 than i have yeah and so the sacrifices the the junk that's made outside the united states and imported in

00:43:35.060 okay you go without it your coffee will be slightly more expensive okay that's true

00:43:38.660 but you can also over a period of time and he recognizes trump has made it very clear that there

00:43:43.560 is a short-term pain there was a short-term pain about brexit every time you challenge the state

00:43:49.020 every time you challenge the the the the way that it's been done for a long period of time that

00:43:54.240 people have comfortably suck the living daylights out of it for their own time makes a uncomfortable

00:44:00.120 change for some people but ultimately you need to have those changes i often look at it in terms of

00:44:05.920 a company if a company has just become too fat on managers and you're paying them too much either

00:44:11.360 the company goes bust or a takeover comes in and when the taker comes in you get rid of middle

00:44:15.840 management why can't countries do exactly the same and tariffs is part of that it's part of that

00:44:21.980 structural change that's needed well would you guys agree though that in the long run whichever way it

00:44:26.560 goes around you know power i always say power despises a rival castle and it seems to me that

00:44:32.700 this situation where any random court can just overrule the president okay this time it's a

00:44:38.680 preposterous system at some point one of those two forces has to win and has to cry either the courts

00:44:45.180 crush the power of the president or the president at some point has to tame it well the the way the

00:44:51.780 system is set up is so that they're at a constant tension forever it's not sustainable i i agree i

00:44:57.920 i agree with you it's not going to carry on forever is it no and i'm intrigued about this because as i

00:45:03.160 as i move through it you you kind of get um you've got small businesses uh you've got here kelly

00:45:10.700 loffler who's saying that you know we've looked at an individual small businesses are happy with this

00:45:16.280 kind of trade yes it will give them short-term elements but they're going to get tax cuts and

00:45:21.060 deregulation which helps the small business not the large corporates who are the ones who are

00:45:26.280 supporting this trade organization the large corporates are the ones who are most reliant on

00:45:31.960 international trade anyway yes like this the small business might be able to source things locally to

00:45:36.980 do what it is they do just because it would probably be cheaper for them to get it from down the road

00:45:41.500 rather than from china or whatever and it might even be an opportunity for a small business to turn

00:45:45.180 and say i'm going to start doing t-shirts here yeah it's probably worth explaining as well

00:45:49.600 because you just said you know deregulation helps the small business it's probably worth explaining that

00:45:55.300 regulation tends to create an entry barrier which then favors the massive corporations that's right

00:46:02.900 they couldn't agree more with that they can afford compliance yeah the little man gets squeezed out

00:46:07.580 which is why corporations tend to favor the regulatory state and the managerial state which is why the eu

00:46:13.320 looks as the eu looks yeah and and and i i i i was opposed i i never forget the story when i was

00:46:19.260 chair chairing the hedge fund lawyers association i said right after brexit we've got some arguments in

00:46:24.480 the treasury what regulations do you want to be removed and very few regulations were pointed to me

00:46:30.020 oh we don't want we don't like the regular every meeting that i had is we've got this regulation then

00:46:34.460 that regulation it's costing them okay which ones do you want to go the problem was they couldn't come up

00:46:39.720 with them because to do so would mean lots of them potentially losing their jobs and secondly it would

00:46:46.820 allow new players to come into the market i mean i had lots of my particular views on it i'm reminded

00:46:51.280 of adam smith's definition of conspiracy which is basically a number of people from rival big

00:46:57.120 businesses getting together in a room you know basically that exact scenario anyway in the interest of

00:47:03.000 time i think i'm going to try and press on so they're saying he doesn't have the power i pulled

00:47:08.400 up section 232 of the trade expansion act 1962 that to me having read that and there are those in the

00:47:15.480 u.s who might have it seems to suggest that trump has initiated section in 232 investigations will trade

00:47:22.580 organization and has the power well it's been granted from the congress so the congress gets the

00:47:27.700 so he has that power to do that it's been granted to him so the so there are going to be differences

00:47:33.200 then you've got charlie kirk he comes in sweeping new ruling fact check and i as i looked at the trade

00:47:39.580 expansion act 62 allows without needing congressional action and the congress could take action against

00:47:47.940 them if they wanted to yeah just the republicans control us they're not going to so the courts have

00:47:52.120 the executive broad authority so my next point was uh you've got uh why what's happening and i said

00:48:00.340 well here you've got another um judge here in previous judges we got judge a federal judge

00:48:06.320 blocked the federal age programs possibly be within the purview of the judge yeah i mean don't don't

00:48:12.260 the judges need cases being brought to them before they can make a judgment on them to me it's so

00:48:16.840 bizarre that's because some of these cases is literally a judge saying like you've got to give

00:48:21.220 these jobs back to people it's like they've already been fired that's right how bizarre is that

00:48:25.820 how is that the judge's job i mean but again don't they need a case to rule on in order to create

00:48:31.140 the legal precedent what they're doing is i'm going to lead into that so we've had we've had the trade

00:48:35.940 we've had federal aid programs uh we've got the supreme court denied uh the bid to cancel two billion

00:48:44.500 in us aid in a five to four vote this is can we get scotus can we get what's his name's five line

00:48:51.700 summary of that please yeah so we've got that that was against right two million of us 10 and and only

00:48:58.840 two two of the major guys but it's five to four including a trump appointed judge on there

00:49:04.700 oh the trump me come with barrett as well barrett yeah so we now got what can he do what can trump

00:49:11.020 do well on the one side we can do what we discussed already that he can go to the supreme and say

00:49:15.540 intervene against the activist judges and that i know and i understand from my contacts is happening

00:49:20.900 they're trying to draw up plans of how to deal with it particularly the blocking of the flights of

00:49:25.420 the criminal uh the criminals and the terrorists they organized but again the supreme blocked his alien

00:49:32.640 enemies act okay this is temporary they want a full case obviously thomas is i love thomas so much

00:49:39.200 man thomas and thomas yeah i know yeah yeah and i i'm surprised that what would happen if an if one

00:49:45.720 of the democrat judges died again he's got that opportunity i think they're trying to keep them

00:49:50.400 alive for as long as possible um we've got a federal judge in a court filing that will not comply with

00:49:57.260 the court's orders to resume funding of us aid and state department so that's the second

00:50:00.820 alternative they've got go to the supreme court or just ignore it what ruling again like what charge

00:50:07.880 was brought what challenge was brought yeah anyway so it's insufferable so we have a situation where he

00:50:13.740 can ignore it and then um i just thought i'd finish with this because i just looking at the lawfare from

00:50:20.500 deep fake quotes it's not just about policy it's that pink it's about process it's about tying him up

00:50:26.860 taking his energies away making sure his legal teams the white house are fighting battles

00:50:32.540 on constant fronts uh and whether it's the deportation play and i'm just going to play this

00:50:39.160 because i quite like i love this mask always have done uh you know no i don't go in a shower of my one

00:50:44.960 of my own honestly but it's just this is lawfare a strategy not to block deportation outright but to

00:50:53.620 slow it down so much that it effectively never happens over 20 million illegal crossings

00:51:00.340 the goal is i hate to uh yeah and delay becomes denial the constitution but my point was to just

00:51:08.640 say exactly what's happening here exactly when we're talking about law fair is being used against

00:51:14.060 individuals opposed to state opposed uh mass migration law fair is being used on a number of

00:51:19.380 fronts in different states against everything that trump's does he's got limited options of what

00:51:23.580 he's got so either get everything up into the supreme court or ignore it but that's what's

00:51:28.740 happening the markets love it at the moment and this will be a massive trial and a test for him

00:51:34.120 didn't they do all this last time it seems like a exact repeat of the first the first time

00:51:39.780 except he's got congress and senate this time d jones says all of the law fair cases will lose in

00:51:45.520 the end this is a judicial coup it is just delay tactics inferior judges uh do not make economical

00:51:50.440 foreign foreign foreign policy decisions sorry logan i missed your thing earlier um uh all i'm

00:51:55.500 hearing is that my cousins are in trouble i need my help in some way yes well we've we are in trouble

00:51:59.020 we've got to deal with ourselves um anyway right so let's uh let's move on to how these things are

00:52:03.980 being dealt with in print actually so nigel farage has well and truly smashed the conservatives at this

00:52:10.260 point uh polling has put them reliably in fourth place behind the liberal democrats the labor party

00:52:17.700 and reform in first uh very consistently now reform are polling over 30 so this is pretty impressive

00:52:25.600 and the next nearest challenger to farage is the labor party on 22 roughly around that sort of uh area

00:52:35.200 and so they're quite worried because nigel farage is parking his tanks on their lawn and saying right

00:52:41.100 here's a few new economic policies that we're going to roll out and uh the first one being a transferable

00:52:46.580 tax allowance between married people in order to encourage them to have more children and uh he's

00:52:52.220 going to lift the two child limit on benefits not because we support benefits culture but in order

00:52:57.900 to make having children easier for lower paid workers though he admits this is not a silver bullet

00:53:02.540 uh he's vowed to fully reinstate the universal winter fuel payment scheme which i actually don't think

00:53:08.380 is brilliant it should be means tested but obviously carrying on uh and uh he's reiterated that

00:53:14.280 reforms manifesto promises to lift the income tax threshold to twenty thousand pounds isn't it

00:53:18.400 twelve thousand pounds at the moment yeah twelve twelve and a half yeah something like that yeah

00:53:21.620 so if you earn twelve thousand pounds you don't pay tax if you earn thirteen thousand pounds now

00:53:26.140 they start taxing you so thirteen thousand pounds enough to bloody live on yeah but exactly yeah you're

00:53:31.040 taking 22 percent of that yeah it's the 500 quid you're going to get you're going to lose

00:53:34.660 just over a hundred so you're only better off by 400 quid for farage gave a um a reform uh

00:53:41.160 where they talk to the press question and answer no there's a next conference press conference i don't

00:53:49.360 know why that was not on the top of my head press conference uh where he explained this uh and he

00:53:55.440 made fair point about this creates a benefits trap so basically if you're getting 16 grand a year 20

00:54:01.180 20 grand a year on benefits why would you go to work and there are people on benefits who may want

00:54:06.240 to work but don't have the choice because of course if you're getting 20 grand a year on benefits and

00:54:10.860 you get a job and suddenly you're on 13 14 grand that doesn't make any sense and it's such small

00:54:16.960 amounts of money as well it's insufferable um anyway so the point being he's uh going to do that and

00:54:21.880 he's going to get his doge unit set up so he's going to cut government waste scrap net zero uh cancel the

00:54:27.780 DEI agenda and various quangos which all sounds great uh but the the issue isn't it really isn't

00:54:36.040 about the policies i mean you know whether he does any of this whether it has any significant effect

00:54:41.100 whatever who cares right the the question uh because that's a question four years away presumably

00:54:46.640 uh but the the thing that everyone noticed is oh wait so this is a direct attack on labor as the

00:54:53.540 positioning reform as being the party of the working class and so basically yes very it seems

00:55:00.320 very clearly uh quite a wise strategy on farage's part he has absolutely bullied the conservatives

00:55:05.800 uh he in fact called them a minor party now which is true i mean percentage terms they are yeah

00:55:13.320 if you're only on 16 17 18 percent of the polls well i mean the lib dems are doing better than you are

00:55:20.120 uh and so now he's pivoting to annihilate labor and so this caused a lot of uh consternation in

00:55:28.300 the labor supporting uh shit lib media uh they couldn't understand how it is that nigel farage could

00:55:38.340 position himself as a champion of the working class uh because don't you know he has a privileged

00:55:44.240 background let's watch ask voters for example whether starmer or farage makes the better prime minister

00:55:49.180 and starmer wins comfortably 44 to 20 voters narrow that down to working class voters alone

00:55:55.860 and the results are flipped how is nigel farage a privately educated son of a stockbroker who left

00:56:03.320 school to become a trader in the city of london reaching working class voters in a way that other

00:56:09.080 politicians like keir starmer isn't keir starmer by the way who did grow up working class dad famously

00:56:15.000 was a toolmaker wait to stay comprehensive made his living and his reputation not in the city of

00:56:20.380 london but as a human rights lawyer what is for the very fact he was a human rights lawyer

00:56:28.800 is enough to turn any working class person off you know really wasn't his dad the fact i'm sure i

00:56:35.000 remember he owned his own factory is a factory owner yeah he was a factory that's like saying uh he's a

00:56:39.660 businessman frederick ingles was working just a rags to riches story i don't know what you're talking

00:56:44.280 about went to a comprehensive yeah so as you can see uh the the the libs at lbc are just like i just

00:56:51.760 don't understand this how is it that they aren't choosing the robotic human rights lawyer over the

00:56:57.580 charismatic pint swilling cigarette smoking uh nativist yeah and this i just i just find this to

00:57:05.200 be honestly hilarious and this is the only only stab at nigel fries they have is well you come from a

00:57:12.020 relatively privileged background it's like okay they don't hate relatively privileged people you

00:57:18.160 must surely have that through your thick skulls at this point uh yeah ollie dougmore oh this is i love

00:57:24.160 i love ollie dougmore because he's one of those people he he's a radical lip he doesn't realize he's

00:57:29.660 a radical lip and he doesn't really understand the world around him because he's a radical lip

00:57:33.620 so let's watch ollie here is nigel farage of um 10k a year dulwich college a voice of the working

00:57:40.500 class is nigel farage former metals trader a voice of the working class is nigel farage the leader of

00:57:46.340 a political party that until very recently was just an incorporated business and had none of those

00:57:50.080 mechanisms of internal democracy a voice of the working class bankrolled in fact by several

00:57:54.140 billionaires one of whom is the deputy leader i think he's a millionaire not quite a billionaire

00:57:58.160 richard tyson says that property portfolios of property businesses steeped in his family's blood

00:58:02.720 is that a voice of the working class i would hesitate to say no but also i would say in the

00:58:07.580 question hang on a sec ollie but have you have you considered that that is the voice of the working

00:58:13.380 class actually uh this this is the thing about the working class that why would ollie know anything

00:58:18.020 about it because he's not working class yeah he is a southern middle class lib they don't know what

00:58:24.280 they're dealing with and what i love about all of this is they're like well the voice of the working

00:58:29.540 class must surely come from the working class this is the fundamental contention as in the only

00:58:35.720 representation is formal uh direct representation as in if you if you want someone working class to

00:58:43.460 represent people well they have to be working class it's like yes but you call that person a

00:58:47.720 racist because his name is tommy robinson and you put him in jail and you make sure that he's

00:58:52.020 sidelined from any kind of public discourse because actually the authentic voice of the

00:58:55.660 working class sounds a lot like nigel farage actually uh between it's his beliefs it's what

00:59:01.900 he's saying it's his loyalties it's his loyalties his questions how he's doing it no one seemed to

00:59:07.660 question the fact that tony blair a son of a wealthy family who went to fets which actually was

00:59:14.340 more expensive than dulwich college then went to oxford uh which was very expensive and his group of

00:59:20.160 individuals were very wealthy who also then became a barrister and sat in the chambers with people

00:59:25.740 who became mps and even the chancellor all of that and he was the voice of the working class

00:59:31.280 well gordon brown who followed the same route was the voice of the this was the lie they were trading

00:59:36.280 on and this is the assumption that the people in the labor party would just be looking out for the

00:59:40.680 working class and this is why the institution of labor and the the the relationship that labor has

00:59:46.640 had with the north is completely hollowed out yeah and so it's now essentially a legacy institution

00:59:51.980 there that is being rapidly replaced by nigel farage because reform are basically the second party

00:59:56.840 everywhere where they're not the first party in the north um but again like look at the southern

01:00:02.000 lib who just can't understand it like ollie dougmore is 100 a product of blair's britain yes he is like

01:00:09.220 the you know single degree owning uh kind of retarded person who can list the things that the power

01:00:15.900 structures tell him to list and thinks no further down that line there's an interesting uh respect in

01:00:23.060 which this dynamic has kind of always been there all the way back to the days of disraeli and the

01:00:28.340 high low you know yes the upper classes and the working man in an alliance against the middle class

01:00:35.640 even i mean i don't think the left ever truly understand understood the appeal of thatcher in the

01:00:40.620 80s who was very popular with with six man with working class voters essex man knew that

01:00:45.880 he was going to get some actually i mean one of the one of the things that i don't think they

01:00:49.860 like they keep on going on about the wet the metals trader this is a wide boy they don't mind the

01:00:55.740 idea of somebody who's done done well for themselves someone who's you know been upwards

01:01:01.020 the boy done good you remember the boy done good you remember the led by donkeys where they're like

01:01:06.180 nagel farage made a million a year or something they put it in clackton it's like i didn't hurt

01:01:09.800 nagel farage at all but essex man isn't like oh no a rich person nagel farage works for his money

01:01:15.380 yeah and and partly this this may boil down to having known poverty versus not having known it

01:01:21.680 anybody who's known it will will also know that actually if you can get yourself out of it

01:01:27.860 it's a good thing it's not a bad thing and that was something that in the 80s that the tories under

01:01:33.980 thatch were able to tap into but labor never quite understood labor have just got the politics of envy

01:01:39.340 yes they expect you to be jealous of that and i would go further in that you know not only is it

01:01:44.320 the politics of envy but we also recognize in the working class that there were people who were in the

01:01:49.720 establishment and members of the house of lords people who owned estates who had more respect for

01:01:55.780 this country in our history and they sat in the house of lords holding back the tide of the lefties

01:02:01.860 who wanted to say that we support the working class when actually they didn't they support the

01:02:05.920 fabian society's middle class intellectual communist thinkers who wanted to just use the working class

01:02:12.440 simply as voters and fodder as a bludgeon against the country and they and these people they removed

01:02:17.000 from the house of lords because they're all i'm not saying that everyone in the house of lords wasn't a

01:02:20.700 decent a bad a great individual where many of them as we all know in all classes of individuals are bad

01:02:25.880 people but on the whole they wanted to maintain the country maintain the flag maintain our history

01:02:30.800 support what we were and hold it back in a proper conservative way and a lot of working class

01:02:36.500 like my grandfather are conservative yes a conservative with small c's so there's a there's

01:02:42.740 an issue here that i think is worth pointing out the the the working class one of the things that

01:02:48.700 makes their the because i mean one of the things that people say was well they're very poor and what

01:02:54.260 we're promising them is money actually we're going to have wealth distribution uh but it this wealth

01:03:00.400 very obviously comes at the expense of something not physical to the working class which is the

01:03:08.580 integrity and honor and dignity of their own country writ large and it's actually a sort of

01:03:15.020 that there's a kind of emotional reliance that people have on this that the middle class have

01:03:20.880 abandoned which is why they're globalist anywhere people and the the working class somewhere people

01:03:25.880 might say yeah it would be nice to have more money but actually there's something special that we have

01:03:30.880 that we don't want to just give up and ollie being the globalist lib that he is would happily throw this

01:03:38.620 away for a slightly cheaper flight to benedorm or something whereas the work the average working

01:03:44.600 class person here's nigel frajan thinks this is about the country itself and they would criticize us

01:03:50.140 saying here what do you know about the working class but i was born my family i grew up in class

01:03:54.960 my family still is we understand it more than that type of person would ever get it just because i've

01:04:00.460 done well in life doesn't mean that i've forgotten where i've come from and how it's gone and how it

01:04:04.680 still impacts them today and that that frightens them more than anything else they absolutely despise

01:04:10.900 people who from the working class who do well who don't comply with their agenda i just want to come

01:04:16.400 back to the the high low alliance uh as well because i think people in the middle class forget

01:04:21.220 the working class do not hate the upper classes no they like them actually and this is why someone

01:04:27.800 like boris or jacob rees mogg has a lot of natural popularity yeah it's also worth um kind of emphasizing

01:04:36.020 for viewers it's not just that they're kind of toffs or something if you're if your family

01:04:42.360 is a big landowner it means you have a stake in the land and therefore you care about it this is yes

01:04:50.180 goes back to our old property rights argument you you're a monitor for it so you're you're a

01:04:55.600 self-interested monitor because you have a stake in that place doing well in in a way that uh the

01:05:02.380 anywhere person or the corporation absolutely the or the international lawyer or whatever

01:05:07.520 they don't have a stake in the same way barrett homes taylor wimpy blackrock all those funding

01:05:13.400 the bonds and the debt to be able to buy up the nice piece of countryside and build a whole load

01:05:18.120 of houses on it because it's having to fulfill population growth have no stake other than a

01:05:24.060 financial remunerative stake and that's all that matters ollie finds himself 100 on their side

01:05:30.380 i don't know if we we could be getting to this now but i i think it's important to stress though

01:05:34.600 that labor internally uh that there's a guy who works for uh uh starmer called morgan mcsweeney

01:05:41.100 he is like the dominic cummings of labor he gets this there's something there's a strategy he's using

01:05:47.380 called blue labor he gets everything that we just talked about where they're gonna go for small c

01:05:54.060 social conservatism this is why they went so big on the island of strangers speech yeah and the and the

01:05:59.900 immigration talk what's fascinating and i i kind of look at look at this almost like kind of football

01:06:04.980 manager is as the labor are strafing right on immigration and signaling right we're listening

01:06:12.220 to you you can trust us again reform are actually doing something very clever it's very very well i

01:06:18.780 don't know about clever they're doing i think it is clever they're doing something interesting

01:06:21.640 they're going right well we're going to strafe left in a way that you'd never expect us

01:06:26.920 because everybody thinks of farage as a thatcher right and he's not actually going to go no

01:06:31.120 because the weakness for labor when it comes to the the working man is the is actually the

01:06:38.000 neo-liberal part of the blair right agenda which is still there of course but i i would say to you

01:06:42.620 you're talking about reform as though they're doing this now i was there in the the national

01:06:48.180 executive committee and working with susan evans and patrick o'flynn in the 2015 manifesto

01:06:55.120 doing exactly this we'd started to move along that way we'd started the strategy he's only

01:07:01.320 continuing the strategy that herself and also to be fair on paul nuttall paul nuttall was

01:07:05.440 persuasive in nigel nigel wasn't going to go down this line at all then because he is in his heart

01:07:11.320 a thatcher right everyone knows this but the the point you're bringing up here is the i think

01:07:16.100 genuinely the important inflection point that will decide who wins in this strategy which is the

01:07:22.880 credibility of the person who is taking up the alien position as in do will will starmer be able

01:07:31.000 to persuade people that actually inside of him does beat the far right heart of an enoch paul

01:07:37.460 and compared to nigel farage is actually no i do have that noblesse oblige that believes that the

01:07:47.300 wealthy should pay their fair share and the tax should be redistributed down to the working classes

01:07:52.640 which one will end up being more persuasive now i don't think either of them actually believes the

01:07:58.400 position that they have adopted here this is not nigel farage natural inclination no is he more likely

01:08:04.820 to be persuasive over starmer though and i think that the question the answer is probably yes probably

01:08:09.340 yes because just a quick thing like starmer's strafe to the right has been very hard very public

01:08:14.740 very well telegraphed everyone in the country knows what he's doing yeah and nobody is persuaded

01:08:19.540 by it this has not helped his problem at all right i i mean for my sins i've been watching rory

01:08:26.560 stewart and alistair campbell the most accurate prediction i'm always interested to see what they're

01:08:32.060 saying uh and to be fair alistair campbell made quite an astute point which he said like

01:08:37.100 yes starmer's right to go after immigration but he shouldn't have done it in this way because

01:08:42.000 going on the rhetoric according to campbell plays into farage's wheelhouse yes what he should have

01:08:49.380 done according to campbell is show and not tell i.e just post the results we've done this many

01:08:56.160 deportations immigration's come down this much but don't make a song or dance about it or make it a

01:09:01.400 game of rhetoric because you're always going to lose that against reform who are just who no matter

01:09:06.680 what you do it's not going to be good enough and the way campbell said it is that starmer set up a

01:09:11.400 situation where he's saying to the country judge me against this and the country is gonna i mean we

01:09:18.420 are all gonna judge him against that and i and i and i get that i think there is something very solid

01:09:23.820 to say about actions speak louder than words and produce this evidence but again if you're thinking

01:09:30.760 about the way that the labor party were moving on this in particular on immigration he knew that net

01:09:35.800 migration was going to come down the obor had told him i indicated it in my own research that it was

01:09:41.260 going to come down so he knows in the lifetime of parliament net migration will come down he also

01:09:46.880 knows that the conservative party had made changes that would impact legal migration the question is

01:09:52.940 whether he really were deportations and this is a part of the research that needs to be pushed in

01:09:57.280 because at the moment deportations is not about those who've come across in the boats

01:10:00.860 it's still about those who are criminals and those who are being offered money to leave

01:10:05.800 voluntarily he's not deporting people deliberately quarters of the deportations

01:10:12.320 have been people who have voluntarily left yes so to go back to the tactics just a quick thing on

01:10:18.420 that yeah so the the issue though is this is very much the rhetorically parking your tanks on the

01:10:24.600 other person's lawn yeah because again i don't think anyone actually thinks that nigel frage will do

01:10:29.000 the things that he's actually saying here or at least really holds it in his heart if he does it

01:10:33.540 it'll be to the bare minimum extent because otherwise it would look bad if he did nothing

01:10:37.600 on this or something like this which is what everyone can see that starmer is doing and so the question

01:10:43.040 is one genuinely of intent starmer is trying to rhetorically take control of this area because he

01:10:49.740 sees it's a very strong place that the frage is on and he's obviously been given permission to do it

01:10:54.460 by tony blair or something like that but everyone can see that in his heart he's still trying to sell

01:11:00.160 us out he's desperate he's a human rights lawyer as we're told uh whereas farage might actually do

01:11:06.220 something positive on the social issue as well as the economic issue and if the economic issue comes

01:11:11.520 about that's a bonus but that's not really what farage's appeal to the working class is what i'm

01:11:17.280 interested in here because this is like a really unprecedented tactical yeah it's interesting really

01:11:21.920 interesting tactical situation what i would say is that the person who's going to lose this is the

01:11:27.520 one who because at the moment within labor starmer's being um that there's the hard left who've been

01:11:33.620 dealt with but there's also this faction of the party called the soft left basically the old brown

01:11:38.400 knights and a few people who aren't comfortable with this direction yeah the worst thing starmer can do

01:11:43.480 now he's set on down this road is to u-turn or back off he has to walk the walk talk the talk

01:11:50.560 oh yeah if he but if he walks back on any of this he'll be crushed right within and then the same

01:11:55.600 i would say is true of for like now he's gone down this road i'm not sure if he can then go back to

01:12:01.480 like oh actually i was just joking i'm still uh into the neoliberalism guys uh and and i do think

01:12:07.720 because it's a long road less dangerous for farage 2029 it's quite a long road so just a quick thing on

01:12:12.900 that so the the the main issue i think is not economic uh that is driving people to farage uh farage wasn't in

01:12:20.040 fact promising anything economic until literally yesterday right what farage is promising is a moral

01:12:25.760 realignment of the state towards the interests of to to be loyal to the british people right that's

01:12:33.560 what farage is promising ultimately and that's what uh starmer is trying to promise with his pivot to

01:12:40.760 oh yeah i'm gonna deport all the browns um this this is not fundamentally a primary weakness for farage

01:12:48.560 farage has got already the majority share the the largest uh share of the uh polls anyway so what

01:12:56.640 farage is trying to do is essentially push the labor party fully off the cliff so even if he backs down

01:13:01.880 on his economic questions well not good right if you're a northern sort of economically socialist

01:13:08.840 uh labor voter but your other option is globalist foreigner loving party of islam who wants to trans my

01:13:15.720 children yeah they're not they're not winning this back that's much more fundamental moral issue

01:13:20.740 that they have failed on that nigel fros has won on there is an element also of what's happening in the

01:13:27.200 united states so clearly when you're we talked about it very briefly is that trump used this kind of

01:13:32.900 tacking towards uh mago voters and the working class of america and for him economically the argument

01:13:39.340 just very simple the concept and of a tip not being taxed everybody knows that's the lowest end

01:13:46.200 of where you get in the united states so farage is at a way trying to copy that kind of usage of policy

01:13:54.260 to attach himself even more firmly with the working and the lower middle class because this isn't just

01:13:59.780 about him getting out of the d's and e's he wants to get in c1s and c2s and this is an opportunity to say

01:14:05.780 i can branch out into those areas as well just to push back a little bit i'm imagining a scenario

01:14:11.200 where labor one don't allow an election all the way till 2029 and two they stay the course now imagine

01:14:19.180 if starmer has been posting the way he's been posting for the next two years it'll be much more

01:14:24.420 difficult because the longer they stay in this kind of mode where they're trying to appeal that you know

01:14:31.580 us and our friends the further away the memory of the trends and the kids and all the things that

01:14:36.520 you just talked about will will will will get so i'm i'm saying i'm not saying it's i'm not saying

01:14:42.780 it will maybe deliver a win for them i'm just saying that's their route to victory i don't convince the

01:14:48.440 public the labor have changed i don't have the link up but recently um you go on their uh approval

01:14:55.320 tracking for individual politicians uh kirstama is at 15 approval rating with a negative of

01:15:01.360 minus 50 and the negative has just been getting higher every single day uh okay i it's been what

01:15:07.360 you know how many weeks now since he came out with his rivers of blood speech uh two weeks and it's

01:15:12.360 done nothing absolutely nothing things are just getting worse and so kirstama i think the unfortunate

01:15:18.420 position he's in is he's just completely polluted the well with good faith with the british public

01:15:24.360 generally and now he just looks like a liar so now he looks like a cynical pandering politician

01:15:30.520 rather than anyone who's doing anything that he genuinely believes to be the right thing he's

01:15:35.160 trying to solidify a certain area of i think of the middle class university student voting or a group

01:15:41.880 of people and also work towards those that say he is a world leader and normally i was we were talking

01:15:48.500 about this briefly before we came on when you are in trouble politically at home a leader tends to

01:15:55.580 look abroad uh thatcher had had the falklands tony blair had uh the the iraq war what you had with

01:16:03.640 starma is from because he set off so badly so quickly he's ended up trying to do ukraine the

01:16:09.740 the trade deal with the us the trade deal with india the trade deal with the eu and none of them are

01:16:15.420 shifting the dial at all we're not seeing him as a great european leader or a great leader on the

01:16:22.600 world stage we're seeing someone actually is selling us out who sold us out on chagos sold

01:16:27.300 us out in the european union the deal with india is not as good as everybody is playing with and

01:16:31.720 clearly what happened in the united states was only a reduction in the tariffs that were already being

01:16:36.080 hit by so he's also thrown out a big card very early he's thrown out his diamonds so we just for

01:16:42.080 the time's sake i'm afraid you have to carry on but i think you're completely correct and uh we will

01:16:45.580 come back to that at some point if you want oh i mean if star was a busted flush the plan b for

01:16:50.460 labour would to be uh to get in angela oh yeah and then it would be a different proposition

01:16:55.360 i think she's properly a council estate mum yeah you know then you can say council great grandmother

01:17:02.040 anyway that's a different conversation it is anyway so nigel farage of course

01:17:08.140 hit back saying don't care about your opinions basically not only are you not members of the

01:17:13.720 working class but you're also selling out the country so piss off uh which you know fair fair

01:17:18.560 so we've got some polling from the red wall um the the northern uh former labour voting seats

01:17:25.940 and yeah this isn't good for starmer he's down to 24 when asked who would be the best prime minister

01:17:33.100 24 said that nigel farage 27 boris johnson at 12 no no and this is a very quick thing people and

01:17:42.740 farage really needs to pay attention to this if boris johnson comes back boris johnson will crush him

01:17:48.240 yeah because whether you like johnson or not the majority of the people are not politicos who

01:17:54.360 understand that boris johnson betrayed the country more thoroughly than any labour politician ever did

01:18:00.500 uh and just with such speed and just in just enjoyment honestly the way that they did it they

01:18:09.160 should be hammering that every day yeah they should come back and farage really should i think it's

01:18:13.060 interesting that you see rupert lowe at six percent yeah i was going to get to that uh you've got

01:18:17.340 corbyn at nine percent uh you've got bad knock at eight percent but then you've rupert lowe at six

01:18:21.760 percent which is twice known twice generic twice yeah well we're told rupert lowe is not known

01:18:27.260 yeah exactly i don't know man i'm saying the online right you know can spontaneously manifest six percent

01:18:33.520 in a poll yeah what happens when he actually gets a team behind him what happens when he gets fully

01:18:39.240 promoting and a party and fully promoting himself across i mean he's he's creeping up on badenock

01:18:44.380 the current leader of the conservative party yeah with northern voters so that's pretty bloody

01:18:49.720 significant uh but then i was i was only going to mention the other side but then uh we also have

01:18:54.420 with young people where starmer's on 22 corbyn's on 15 percent farage's on 14 and then lowe's on 11

01:19:00.800 11 okay popular than rainer and tying with boris johnson now that's interesting because that will

01:19:07.340 i would have thought that has to be unprompted because lowe is not like a media star name

01:19:13.340 across a lots of so they think exactly yeah so it's quite interesting to see those figures up

01:19:18.600 there yeah isn't it just who are these 20 year olds who like keir starmer i don't believe

01:19:22.720 oh no no i find it really hard university university students all right okay yeah yeah they're the ones

01:19:28.540 who like it manchester birmingham london you name it but but that is fascinating and like for an

01:19:33.700 independent backbench mp who's been there for six months yeah rupert lowe polling organically at

01:19:39.300 six percent and eleven percent with young people yeah that's a very interesting thing that is uh my

01:19:45.060 my advice to rupert don't join the bloody tories no you don't need them like look where bedlock is

01:19:50.080 look where jenric is like jenric is really working hard as well i know i actually feel bad for jenric

01:19:56.660 because he seems like a fairly decent fellow and he is i say working very hard yeah and it is not

01:20:02.020 paying off and honestly i think it's just honestly and this is a not a nice thing to say but you

01:20:06.680 you're not you're not charismatic you know politics is about vibes sorry uh i hate to say

01:20:12.220 it but anyway so uh this this is interesting so basically it looks like nigel frage is living

01:20:17.780 rent-free in keir starmer's brain and you may remember a couple of weeks ago where keir starmer

01:20:22.320 asked nigel frage for a debate which is a fascinating turn of affairs because the prime minister asking just

01:20:30.240 an mp debate me bro reveals a profound weakness in starmer's own position as in oh yeah no i really

01:20:40.720 accept that nigel frage is the locus of moral authority and political power in the united

01:20:46.420 kingdom and i think i can take something away from him by crushing him in a debate yeah says the prime

01:20:52.340 minister of the united kingdom says someone who's got less actual charisma than actually the former

01:20:58.440 leader of the liberal part liberal democrats nick clegg who said exactly the same and then was

01:21:04.400 completely embarrassed in the debate versus versus farage you know what he wants to do don't you he

01:21:10.500 wants to go on there and surprise everybody with how based he is yes he does very interesting

01:21:14.520 scenario for us but the problem the problem is is that farage can always tactically go further to the

01:21:20.360 right yeah everyone knows and and this i mean this is what sweeney must know this is what we talked

01:21:25.720 about this for me yeah is the ideal scenario oh yeah we can have this great yeah until 2029

01:21:31.600 kia starmer trying to prove to the country yeah it's fantastic he's based yeah that's perfect because

01:21:36.960 it means that we may get more i'm with you man but the dialectic down with the kids the dialectic

01:21:41.140 has been generally very much favorable to the right at the moment anyway it's who can out compete

01:21:45.340 each other on deportation anyway we are running low on time but uh nigel frage uh hit back said okay

01:21:49.520 yeah um i challenge you to a debate in a working men's club i love it i love it that is that is

01:21:57.780 superb very smart knock you off very very smart knock you off uh yeah exactly frage will absolutely

01:22:03.680 you see for us enjoying yeah he is now uh frage would absolutely crush him there uh kia starmer

01:22:08.900 would have to basically go out with a swastika on his arm to persuade any one of his right-wing

01:22:13.700 credentials um it like this this is not something i think kia starmer to me this is my favorite

01:22:19.680 period in british politics it's possibly since it's so much fun it's good um yeah so uh but the

01:22:26.460 the point is you can see the profound weakness in kia starmer's position and the fundamental

01:22:29.880 strength of frage's everyone knows that the average working man would rather because again

01:22:33.720 this is all very much vibes based who who's got his old ukip tie on who do you think the average

01:22:41.140 working man would rather spend the evening with in a pub oh it'd be definitely no one has any

01:22:47.100 questions i might have my criticism yeah i've got plenty of criticism of nigel frage but the ability

01:22:51.700 to this is his strong laugh and joke in a pub with people and talk to them in a very similar way to

01:22:58.180 boris could do absolutely it's where he's a killer this is 100 his strong suit and there's no way

01:23:04.920 it's kind of an i mean i did to go back to ask campbell's point starmer's start if someone's

01:23:11.600 got any strengths it's basically his big weakness as well which is the fact that he comes across as

01:23:16.500 a robot with no emotion yeah so the way he could kill it just by is just by doing it like we said

01:23:22.740 don't get into all debates and rhetoric and so on just do it yeah yes almost seems to have forgotten

01:23:28.160 he's not a politician no because because if he's going to get into these scenarios i agree

01:23:32.400 farage will have him on toast oh it's going to be great starmer's just not human and the thing is

01:23:36.440 in a normal way starmer demand starmer demanded the debate live on air so now it's like yeah okay

01:23:42.440 let's do this i think the safest thing for starmer can't even turn it down now starmer yeah i think

01:23:46.380 one of the safest is send one in the robots that you've got from elon must stick his face on it

01:23:50.140 in case nigel farage and that will do better but you are you are right the starmer starmer is a

01:23:53.620 matter of process so get processing you know exactly that that would yeah exactly again he's

01:23:58.780 forgotten he's not a politician anyway i'm afraid for time's sake we're going to skip the video

01:24:03.020 comments today sorry folks um but we'll catch them up again tomorrow um alfred the beta says

01:24:08.360 the southport riots showed the world the uk doesn't have free speech but equally it showed the perverse

01:24:12.640 nature of british justice which is state-funded defense solicitors acted en masse to jail their

01:24:17.620 own clients with bad advice now that that's a great question because you've got to wonder what the

01:24:22.140 solicitors themselves were thinking did they actually think that the people who they were like look just

01:24:27.660 plea guilty and you get you'll you'll get soft touch did they think that was actually going to happen

01:24:31.640 or were they like if i don't tell them to do that i'm going to get in trouble with the state

01:24:36.060 so it's it's actually like you say to call it perverse is i think exactly correct because these

01:24:42.940 people were just thrown into an absolute lion's den that they didn't know anything about and they got

01:24:48.160 utterly screwed over for it utterly screwed over absolutely terrible kurt asks how is starmer not guilty in

01:24:54.460 all of this spreading misinformation fomenting racial tensions causing anxiety his southport

01:24:59.320 speech contains alone contains all of these well yeah but he's he's got the uh the sovereign

01:25:04.880 exception doesn't he uh derek says americans have gone through targeted cases there was a man who

01:25:10.180 shared a meme about the voting through text message or how obama used the rs target tea party members

01:25:14.680 of the conservatives basically the entirety of trump's political career that's a good point

01:25:18.620 trump got spied on by obama didn't he yes he's been relentlessly harried by uh the new york judges

01:25:27.420 for his property things like this uh i think he's very aware of this uh so again it's nice to have

01:25:33.780 a sympathetic ally isn't it omar says what they don't censor is as revealing as what they do

01:25:39.800 no muslims going to prison for praying outside an abortion clinic it's two-tier friend-enemy

01:25:44.000 distinction is the only rule well the thing is i don't think the abortion clinics actually

01:25:47.380 intersect with the muslim community very much i don't very many many muslim women are actually

01:25:51.860 getting abortions so i don't think the muslims that you know okay the kafir are aborting their

01:25:56.500 children okay you know uh someone online says it's ultimately up to you brits to save yourselves we

01:26:02.900 can offer support a poorly economic pressure on but it's ultimately up to you yeah but i mean i

01:26:07.280 think as you can see we do actually do have something going in our favor because again like we've

01:26:11.720 got so many criticisms of my nigel fryer and there's so many times where he's done things i think

01:26:16.020 are just despicable uh he does represent a change from the way that the country was being run unless

01:26:23.920 something else comes up he's the only difference at the moment unless something else arrives at six

01:26:28.520 percent of the polls unexpectedly yeah that's right he's the only thing we've got so far um but yeah so

01:26:34.060 things are in process it's just as with all things politically in britain uh something happens

01:26:40.020 elsewhere in the world and then 100 years later we finally catch up uh matthew says uh what

01:26:45.500 uncomfortable topics have we discussed if the uk have free speech uh well that's the point isn't it

01:26:50.900 well i tell you what the point would be and the point behind all of it is to protect the negative

01:26:54.580 characterization of minority groups that's all it is if you negatively characterize people who get

01:27:00.420 abortions people who are from foreign communities who do terrible things to english children then it might

01:27:06.800 look bad on that community and that's a form of oppression that's the point of it anyway henry

01:27:12.720 says the greatest thing trump has done in the second term is forcing the political procedural devils to

01:27:16.700 reveal they do in fact exist uh judges in the us the uk and the eu have an insane level of power

01:27:21.160 especially given the significant legal consequences of precedence yeah i mean this this it is nice that

01:27:26.220 trump has forced them to burn up a bunch of capital they've been sat upon so that is a good thing

01:27:31.220 that's always been his strong suit trump is revealing young people to reveal friend and enemy

01:27:37.740 distinction yeah test says why are corporations allowed to raise a case with courts over this it

01:27:43.580 should be individuals not corporations ah well you remember that in america corporations are legal

01:27:48.640 people which is a i i genuinely hate that uh metaphysical claim because it's bollocks uh but you know

01:27:57.160 i that's why that's basically it uh hosep says we americans view britain very highly the normies

01:28:03.840 think of britain as a second america but with funny accents politically aware know that our country

01:28:08.900 wouldn't be possible without the british tradition or the concept of the rights of englishmen and the

01:28:13.380 americans are also a lot more well versed in the structure of their own country uh we don't have

01:28:19.240 political education in britain the average british normal person has no idea how the state works

01:28:24.280 and so you'll get even mps saying things like separation of powers it's like no all power

01:28:29.660 technically flows from the king yeah through parliament uh and the judiciary from that so we

01:28:35.560 don't have that yeah i i find that shocking when i hear one of the things peter hitchens always talks

01:28:40.260 about is um you know people don't know about the glorious revolution uh 1689 bill of right none of that

01:28:47.080 stuff is really taught or known about if you stop like 10 people in the streets and ask them about

01:28:53.260 the bill of rights they'd have no idea whatsoever yeah i've just picked a picked a book book in us

01:28:58.700 it's by a chap called john hancock who's talking about liberty and the magna carta and the link with

01:29:03.240 the us and and this is not a an intellectual thinker of of report across the united states this is

01:29:10.580 a citizen who researched and studied and it did it incredibly well because they're well versed in it

01:29:17.200 they know more about the magna carta than we many of our schools do uh grant says the only approval

01:29:23.940 rating that matters is the approval rating among voters if the working class is disillusioned with

01:29:28.220 politics and can't be motivated to get behind reform then it doesn't matter what his actual

01:29:31.420 approval rates are the thing is and we're seeing this happen in wales at the moment in fact um

01:29:36.640 there's there's a kind of virality in these cultures in these communities uh that exists

01:29:44.500 as an organism and the community votes in a direction that they think collectively is actually

01:29:52.940 in their interest uh these these kind of uh working class communities are not individualist agents

01:29:59.360 actually and so this is why the community is oh my my grandfather has always voted for labor

01:30:04.940 therefore i am a labor voter you notice there's a deeply traditional community that doesn't think

01:30:09.600 of itself as an atomized individualist there's a couple of council by elections in wales today that

01:30:14.740 i'll be following to just to see whether they're going to be interesting results and it's the same

01:30:18.620 wales and probably the same in scotland as well that's interesting but what's interesting is that

01:30:23.600 when the when the organism of the community realizes oh that's an enemy then the whole community shifts

01:30:31.320 and that's what we're seeing in the starmer farage thing and these shifts aren't necessarily

01:30:37.220 permanent but they're very difficult to just reverse because it's not a person going well

01:30:41.360 maybe i'll be laboratory no no no no no this is this is in the soul of the people if the labor

01:30:46.640 party have killed off the part of these working class communities that believe that they are labor

01:30:51.660 and farage comes on goes guys i'm here to help you uh the community will shift and the labor party

01:30:57.200 will just never get them back yeah well one of the biggest things i think has happened on the street

01:31:02.140 level places like wales rural places all around the country really is the boris wave was so big

01:31:08.680 yeah that the islands of strangers that starmer has talked about has started to reach the shires

01:31:13.960 it's started totally you know places where you'd never see anyone who's from like a non-native

01:31:21.760 background you walk down like some southwest village and there's some african or indian there it's like

01:31:26.680 how are you here i remember reading a study years ago that where they they actually psychologists did

01:31:32.920 this test where they they stick someone who's clearly a non-native on a on a on a bus stop

01:31:39.200 just to register local reactions one person had no problem or then they stick a second one there

01:31:46.020 and started people started getting more xenophobic they stick a third person there and suddenly the

01:31:51.380 whole town was like outraged this is i can't remember the name of the paper now but basically

01:31:57.140 that experiment has happened on a nationwide basis which is i think the unspoken reason why we're

01:32:03.660 getting these huge shifts across the country yeah and absolutely but it's and it's it's a community

01:32:08.320 thing it's not an individual thing we think voting is individual there's absolutely not and this is

01:32:13.240 why farage for all of his weaknesses and all this sort of miltocentrism he's being used as an

01:32:19.440 as an object of protest by these communities it's not necessarily a deep loyalty to farage it's you

01:32:25.080 know what i've had enough of all of you i'm going to go for this pratt and that's exactly what i feel

01:32:29.540 it is at the moment and i think he's the beneficiary of it yeah and the question is whether he can he

01:32:34.180 put down roots there that's right will he be able to be regarded as honestly capable of achieving

01:32:38.600 what they want because my fear is if he doesn't it really damages us for a long time i'm genuinely

01:32:44.500 worried about that as well but anyway on that note we are out of time so remember seven o'clock we are

01:32:49.220 doing the trivium the third and final trivium webinar on rhetoric again it's going to be the

01:32:55.420 best one so we will see you there and thank you for joining us folks have a have a great evening

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - May 29, 2025

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1175

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