The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1183
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 31 minutes
Words per Minute
169.89325
Hate Speech Sentences
115
Summary
The Lotus Eaters are joined by Bo Karaz to talk about Elon Musk and the Clash of the Titans, and what women in the West have to look forward to in the future. Plus, a look at the dangers of ketamine and Adderall.
Transcript
00:00:00.080
If the mechanical world is just that mechanical, how does it become transcendent?
00:00:07.280
Galileo, Boyle, Newton and many others saw themselves as recovering this lost wisdom.
00:00:13.840
Technology had sufficiently progressed to reveal that mankind and the earth he inhabited
00:00:19.120
was not actually the centre of the universe. It threatened to upend their entire body of
00:00:24.320
cosmological knowledge. The process of distinguishing science from superstition had begun, and the great
00:00:30.960
minds of the era dedicated themselves to this work.
00:00:42.960
Podcast of The Lotus Eaters, episode 1183. I'm joined by Bo.
00:00:49.200
Karaz. And apparently we're going to be talking about the clash between Elon and the Donald.
00:00:56.000
Now, London house prices are crashing and what women in the West have to look forward to. So,
00:01:02.240
you know, look forward to that. Right. So, um, there's you.
00:01:07.120
Okay. I thought we could just talk a little bit then about The Clash of the Titans.
00:01:12.480
There's sort of epic fallout between the Donald and good King Elon.
00:01:20.960
Yeah. It got real serious real quick, didn't it?
00:01:23.360
It was funny. And it was, it was, uh, I mean, it's only been going for what, a week, maybe a bit,
00:01:27.120
a bit more than a week. Um, I'm actually glad we didn't cover it immediately.
00:01:32.080
A bit like the Zia Yusuf thing. Let it, let it sort of simmer for a few days.
00:01:35.920
I did on the Daily channel, but yeah, we're, we're, we're a bit more thoughtful here on the
00:01:39.440
podcast channel. But I mean, it was, it was like, you know, obviously there was some disagreement
00:01:44.000
over the spending. And then like in one afternoon, it went straight to, you're a pedo and you're a
00:01:51.760
You're a drug, druggy. The ketamine thrown in, wasn't there?
00:01:54.880
Yes. Yes. Although not by, not, not by Donald himself.
00:02:02.160
Donald did the Nazi thing. Did he all, maybe that was a, the problem is as soon as something
00:02:06.800
like this happens, everybody starts making fake, fake, um, truth posts.
00:02:15.280
Uh, the ketamine stuff seems to be confirmed and seems to be prescription based,
00:02:23.760
Um, but he's been quite successful. So if ketamine does that.
00:02:32.320
According to the Washington Post, uh, Adderall is also a mix into it.
00:02:37.040
That was what M. Bankman-Fried was, Fried was on.
00:02:40.720
Uh, yes. And many others who have to focus for a pretty long time and struggle with it. And
00:02:47.280
then they end up using, uh, Adderall to help them do that.
00:02:51.680
I cannot pay attention to anything longer than about half an hour.
00:02:53.840
What is Adderall? We don't really have it in Britain. I've never, what actually is it?
00:02:58.000
Adderall is usually used to treat, uh, attention deficit disorder or attention deficit and hyperactivity
00:03:07.920
And it's also very frequently used by students who are cramming for exams and things like that.
00:03:14.640
Um, it's used by a lot of lawyers as a sort of downgraded cocaine, shall we say.
00:03:25.520
And it seems that the consequences of Adderall are less severe than the consequences of cocaine.
00:03:29.520
Um, so you see, I mean, you know, John Kennedy was, I believe on methamphetamines, uh, and you had,
00:03:41.600
you have a history of drug use, not just from, uh, what's his name, Hunter Biden and the White House,
00:03:48.000
but there is a certain history of the use of drugs among high performing people in order to
00:03:55.520
enhance their performance and keep them going for longer.
00:04:02.560
Um, but when these drugs are mixed, nobody knows what exactly the total effect is.
00:04:12.160
Um, you call the world's most powerful man a pedo.
00:04:18.640
Hey, if you need an excuse to call the world's most powerful man a pedo, then saying I was on drugs
00:04:26.640
So if you, if you need to climb back, if you, if you need to sort of backtrack a little bit,
00:04:35.280
I will say John Kennedy was in extreme amounts of pain.
00:04:38.000
I think he's on all sorts of different drugs, but because he was wounded during the war and,
00:04:47.920
Um, so yeah, this, this class of retires, it all, it fell out pretty quick, didn't it?
00:04:52.880
Um, and, uh, cause we haven't talked about it on the podcast yet.
00:04:57.680
Um, it's all the, uh, the mainstream media were, or there's your, was this your, it was a daily
00:05:04.640
Your daily video, which was, I thought was very good, very interesting.
00:05:07.760
Um, but all the mainstream media sort of been commenting on it.
00:05:14.960
And there's lots of, uh, there are a few different angles to sort of, uh, take into
00:05:19.520
account whether it's sort of truly just about politics, about the future of America, about the
00:05:25.600
deficit, about the economy, or whether there's sort of a personality clash, whether Elon was
00:05:32.000
always going to have left the Trump administration around this time anyway, whether it's a mountain
00:05:37.120
out of a molehill, it's not really anything, it's actually a nothing burger, or whether
00:05:45.280
So I just thought we could talk about that a little bit.
00:05:46.960
Um, so one of the things I would say, one of the first things I would say is that, um,
00:05:52.480
you've got Elon, the world's richest man, perhaps one of the richest men ever to have
00:05:57.200
lived, sort of up there with John D. Rockefeller and Crassus, um, the most followed man of all
00:06:04.720
Uh, more eyes on him and what he says than anyone who has ever lived.
00:06:10.400
If you ever get retweeted by him, your replies just completely blow up.
00:06:18.760
Um, yeah, um, uh, but still as powerful quote unquote as Elon is, is no match in terms of
00:06:27.320
pure power for the president of the United States.
00:06:30.600
Again, as powerful as Elon is, you go one-on-one head-to-head lock horns with the Donald whilst
00:06:35.480
he's in the big chair in the Oval Office, you're not going to win.
00:06:39.800
Although Elon did point out he's here for four years and I'm here for 40 years.
00:06:43.720
Well, that's the next thing, that's the next thing.
00:06:45.800
Elon's going to be around long after Trump's gone, not just out of office, but once Trump's
00:06:50.120
dead, I imagine Elon's going to be around for decades more.
00:06:52.760
So Elon can bide his time, if anything, wait it out.
00:06:58.520
Well, so that was, that was one of the things you think they will, I feel like there's no
00:07:04.040
You bring up the Epstein stuff and whether he's deleted those tweets or not, we'll talk
00:07:08.760
Burning a bridge though, Trump doesn't usually forgive.
00:07:13.320
But they kind of, they kind of need each other sometimes.
00:07:16.920
I feel like if you personally insult the man, he's like, you're out.
00:07:24.600
Ted Cruz, a bunch of the others who sort of tried to disrupt the 2015, 2016 campaign.
00:07:30.600
He's reconciled with the vast majority of them.
00:07:34.840
He, and they exchanged pretty nasty insults and Ted Cruz refused to endorse him.
00:07:42.440
I think the Epstein thing was definitely a line, shall we say, definitely a very serious
00:07:49.560
But, um, what I found strange was that Trump wasn't anywhere near as vicious as he could
00:07:57.320
We've seen Trump be extremely vicious and he didn't really go that far against Elon.
00:08:05.720
Well, he doesn't want to have to send his astronauts into space using Russian launchers.
00:08:14.120
I mean, well, I mean, perhaps need is a bit strong, but they're both stronger together,
00:08:19.960
It's, it's, it's much better having these two work together.
00:08:22.520
And actually, I mean, the, the issue that they fell out over, Trump was trying to make
00:08:33.560
So it started with this, this one big, beautiful bill where the debt ceiling is going to be
00:08:39.240
Elon even tweeted that it's being raised more than ever before.
00:08:47.080
And that Trump was going to lower taxes and there's arguments to be made whether that-
00:08:53.720
Whether that actually increases tax revenue or not.
00:08:57.240
Like some people think, oh, you raise taxes, you make more, the exchequer, the treasury makes
00:09:03.240
Over the long term, it definitely does, but not immediately.
00:09:11.000
You've just got to get through the next bond issuance that actually the next couple of months
00:09:17.080
That's really the fundamental problem that American politics is geared especially towards
00:09:22.600
the short term because every two years there's an election and halfway through your existing
00:09:30.360
term, you have to begin campaigning for the next one.
00:09:33.880
And this imposes a degree of short termism that is very, very destructive.
00:09:38.600
The other side of the story is that some of the math around what's happening to the deficit and what will happen as a result of this bill is suspect because it starts with the assumption that the taxes that the tax reductions that happened in Trump's first term were going to be removed anyway.
00:09:59.360
That they would be raised back because it was a temporary reduction, whereas now they're being made permanent.
00:10:06.440
So new legislation would have to come in order to raise taxes again.
00:10:15.560
The other one is the assumptions around growth.
00:10:18.400
If you succeed dramatically in cutting regulation and in reducing taxes, does the ensuing growth result in, yes, a higher total debt, but a reduction in the relative value of the debt against GDP, which is the metric that actually counts,
00:10:35.460
not the total dollar amount, but debt versus GDP.
00:10:40.020
Well, the direction of the deficit is what's key there.
00:10:42.180
And the direction of the deficit is key there, as is the amount of growth.
00:10:47.700
So the broadest point here is that they disagreed fundamentally on the direction of the U.S. economy, essentially, or what is to be done.
00:10:57.580
I mean, they both agree that you want to reduce debt, but how to go about doing it?
00:11:05.260
I think Trump came in from the point of view is, look, I can't whip Democrats.
00:11:13.400
He's got a whole bunch of establishment politicians who are like, give me my pork.
00:11:24.420
Which was never politically viable without them reaching the threshold of 60 senators in order to defeat the filibuster.
00:11:32.660
Although, interestingly, now the Senate is working on a version of this bill, which is going to be significantly better, and then try and send that back to the House.
00:11:45.180
But I think the core of the argument was, on Trump's part, political realism and priorities.
00:11:51.800
The priority being the deficit is secondary to the immigration questions and is secondary to the fulfillment of the Trump agenda.
00:12:01.740
And if these promises are fulfilled, then we're in a better position to tackle the deficit and the debt.
00:12:08.620
Whereas Trump's position was, no, we should focus on this now and to the exclusion of political reality and other priorities.
00:12:18.540
This is what it broke down to, the tech bros versus MAGA.
00:12:23.560
And you could argue that the tech bros versus MAGA was always a break that was going to happen at some point.
00:12:28.760
Because one of them is nationalist and one of them is, bring as many Indian developers as I need.
00:12:39.440
And we saw the first shots fired over Christmas, 2024, where you had Trump, where you had Musk arguing for endless migration, essentially.
00:12:54.460
Whereas the nationalist wing, the MAGA wing, was saying, hold on a second, we don't care.
00:12:59.880
You will have to train them here and pay them American salaries rather than use migration to depress wages.
00:13:09.440
Yeah, I mean, so, I suppose, again, just broadly speaking, they've got a different view of how to go about saving America, basically.
00:13:23.460
The good point you made, I think the key point in your daily video, was that America's debt now is something about 37 trillion, I think now.
00:13:39.980
It's just a crazy, crazy, insane number, sort of barely got any bearing on reality, almost.
00:13:47.760
And that, as you said, it just, it will come to a head.
00:13:57.300
I hate that phrase, but everyone knows what we're talking about when that happened.
00:14:02.200
It's moved away from sort of banks in various senses.
00:14:07.740
So when it explodes in codes next time, there's no can, there's no road left to kick the can into.
00:14:18.580
And Elon, well, they're both interested in dealing with it just in different ways.
00:14:23.800
Or I feel like Elon's view is sort of a bit more immediate.
00:14:28.140
Like, we have to do extremely painful things right now.
00:14:41.460
I haven't got the numbers in the Senate, at least, to do that.
00:14:45.860
We don't know when the next great financial crash is.
00:14:48.460
You said it could be a few months, could be nine years.
00:14:50.560
If it's in, let's say, it's over five years away, then, yeah, Trump's right.
00:14:55.220
Let's just make the best deal you can and edge towards it.
00:14:58.000
But if it happens in 18 months' time, we'll look back at this and we'll be like,
00:15:01.780
oh, why didn't we do what Elon said while we still have the choice to make the cuts voluntarily?
00:15:09.440
The worst part is that with the rioting that you're seeing, which we covered yesterday,
00:15:14.520
and with the cultural conflict that you're seeing that's sort of happening in the U.S.
00:15:19.920
between the left and the right, that ends up impacting the market's perceptions of American stability
00:15:28.880
and therefore has an impact on sentiment and debt markets.
00:15:34.440
I think bond traders are smart enough to see that they're not getting paid anyway.
00:15:38.960
The flip side of it, no, they all assume that they are getting paid.
00:15:41.940
The flip side of it is that if you do impose the kind of austerity that is required,
00:15:52.720
But then the unrest happens in a political climate that's less favorable to the MAGA movement.
00:16:00.060
So there is a sort of, the politics and the economics move in tandem,
00:16:04.900
or there is a relationship between how they move.
00:16:08.620
And any kind of major destabilizing political event does have an impact on markets.
00:16:17.000
The question is, do you choose the political event to be one that is based on your agenda,
00:16:22.640
where you get to set the tone of the debate and decide the narrative, which is what's happened?
00:16:27.960
Or does it happen because you got into power and the first thing that you did was impose austerity,
00:16:41.600
And my sense is that Musk is missing that perspective.
00:16:50.460
I don't know if the recent unrest in LA, I don't feel like Trump or Trump's team,
00:16:55.980
the White House, was sort of playing 4-5-D chess where they,
00:16:59.520
because they sent like ice guys into trying to arrest 35 people and it turned into this.
00:17:04.700
I don't think they could have seen that coming necessarily.
00:17:08.260
I've been writing that a big wave of protests is coming no matter what.
00:17:13.720
If you promise mass deportations, you must expect protests to come on the back of it.
00:17:19.360
And now the Democrats have promised that on the 14th of June,
00:17:22.520
they are going to massively escalate their protests.
00:17:26.660
The thing is, these people protest and burn stuff down anyway.
00:17:32.940
It would have been another criminal who had given himself a drug overdose in the vicinity of the police
00:17:40.040
So a bit of the tweet back of all, back in the days when Elon was super pro-Trump
00:17:44.440
and there's pictures out there of Trump playing with his kids, Elon's kids.
00:17:50.640
It's like, would you have done that if you thought he was an actual pedophile,
00:17:58.020
And if you really thought he had questions to answer over sex crime,
00:18:04.260
why do you only bring that up after you've fallen out politically?
00:18:09.260
But I do feel like, of the two, it was Elon that sort of spat his dummy out.
00:18:14.180
It was Elon that sort of, it was Elon that turned his back first.
00:18:20.240
Which is, yeah, unfortunately, I guess he'll...
00:18:22.120
Trump was definitely trying to give Musk a good exit.
00:18:24.760
And he was definitely trying to keep the relationship as best as possible.
00:18:29.560
And he didn't escalate against Musk anywhere near as much the other way.
00:18:48.420
There are multiple angles if you look for them.
00:18:56.140
You know, some people are saying that Elon's all pissed off
00:19:02.700
He's been on the record for years saying that you should get rid of the subsidies.
00:19:09.220
The Guardian, obviously, all lefties really loving it.
00:19:15.860
Yeah, because it was such a dangerous team-up against them.
00:19:24.500
When the left suffers some sort of big defeat, you know, like Kamala losing,
00:19:41.140
It seems like now he's deleted a bunch of, Elon has deleted some of the tweets.
00:19:49.980
So some are saying, maybe it's true, that he's sort of trying to gear up for a reproach more,
00:19:56.000
whether Trump's people and Elon's people have got together and said,
00:20:03.200
And, you know, let's not be actual diehard enemies for the next three and a half years or whatever it is.
00:20:09.840
X is a very important weapon when it comes to regime change operations.
00:20:23.000
If you want to repurpose the deep state and the ability of the deep state to affect regime change,
00:20:27.240
you need Elon on side, unless you're willing to go Chinese and expropriate him or lock him up or something like that.
00:20:39.640
And at the same time, without government contracts,
00:20:42.740
all of Musk's other businesses, especially SpaceX, face some complications at least.
00:20:48.420
And the national security part of the establishment that uses SpaceX and the satellite network that he's building,
00:20:57.940
these guys want to make sure that Musk is on side.
00:21:03.040
But they also don't particularly like Trump either.
00:21:06.680
So that there are these layers there in this debate and this conversation that are.
00:21:17.140
Yeah, that SpaceX is, it's more than just a billionaire's play thing.
00:21:26.420
It's actually being used instead of NASA to ferry material and people into space now.
00:21:36.280
Especially if they want to start putting weapons.
00:21:40.220
So if they want to start putting weapon systems up into orbit,
00:21:42.980
which we're probably very close to being at the point we want to do.
00:21:46.180
Are you going to ask the Russians to take them up for?
00:21:57.780
I mean, the American military establishment still dominates or is GPS, right?
00:22:07.260
But yeah, I mean, this was a funny meme, I just thought.
00:22:14.840
It's easy for me to say sitting here where I haven't really got a dog in the fight.
00:22:20.600
But I don't really see why he went full-blown crazy, like bringing up Epstein and stuff.
00:22:30.300
Unless you were there when it was in the files.
00:22:32.200
But we do know there is clips, aren't there, of Trump and Epstein together.
00:22:36.900
Then there's a picture of Elon standing next to Ghislaine at a party.
00:22:41.280
Just because you met Jeffrey Epstein or even knew him doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty of any crime.
00:22:48.600
Loads of people that are clean knew Epstein or even went to the island.
00:22:53.320
Like Stephen Hawkins went to the island, didn't he?
00:22:56.800
One of the Weinstein brothers went for dinner or something at Epstein's house.
00:23:00.000
It doesn't necessarily mean you did any sex crime.
00:23:12.160
That's sort of the point I'm making, I doubt it.
00:23:13.900
But, yeah, so, I mean, we're going to make the segment slightly shorter today.
00:23:21.700
I mean, as an Englishman, albeit an Anglo-Englishman, my father is American.
00:23:33.800
It's both disappointing that they've fallen out with each other.
00:23:39.980
I mean, true MAGA fans, diehard Elon fans, will be annoyed, probably be annoyed at me saying that.
00:23:53.900
I just feel like too many bridges have been burnt, certainly from Elon's side.
00:24:00.240
I think the direction as things currently stand is that they're going to probably end up making up.
00:24:09.000
And I think that this is still within the recoverable range.
00:24:13.500
Yeah, I think it's still within the recoverable range.
00:24:22.480
Like, they are dependent on each other in all kinds of ways.
00:24:29.620
There are lots more angles that probably could be talked about this.
00:24:39.840
You want to read a couple of the comments or shall we go straight?
00:25:17.940
The reason why SpaceX gets a lot of subsidies is because the government uses it a lot.
00:25:24.160
I did a tweet when it first sort of started blowing up saying,
00:25:44.240
But like Trump's pretty much a globalist in all sorts of ways as well.
00:25:58.720
the guy that's sitting in the Oval Office has got real,
00:26:05.640
he's got tank divisions and the Marine Corps and fast jets,
00:26:14.880
Not that I'm saying Trump would declare war on Elon.
00:26:20.280
Elon needs a billionaire's island shaped like a skull with a giant laser in it.
00:26:24.840
It needs its own strategic defense system as well,
00:26:28.060
because Trump could just nuke it if he wanted to.
00:26:44.120
addressing basically the decline of the importance of man in our understanding of the universe
00:26:50.440
and the rise of materialism as an explanation for the world we live in,
00:26:57.060
the consequences that this has had in terms of reducing us to mere matter rather than spiritual beings connected to God.
00:27:17.820
The topic that I want to talk about a little bit is the situation of London's property prices.
00:27:27.860
as anybody who's been anywhere near Britain knows,
00:27:31.840
there was an explosion in the prices of houses,
00:27:42.840
Anybody who bought a property in London in the 90s is now a millionaire and perhaps a multimillionaire,
00:27:54.520
a house that was bought for 176,000 in the 90s is now 1.6 million,
00:28:04.720
God knows how normal people are meant to be affording houses or to be buying houses in London.
00:28:11.260
But we've seen this explosion as a result of cheap credit and immigration.
00:28:22.300
Because the economic priority for the government was constantly London and the southeast,
00:28:33.140
there was much less to do in other parts of Britain.
00:28:36.540
And there were therefore less services to provide from other parts of Britain.
00:28:42.280
And so everything ended up being concentrated in London.
00:28:45.160
I know the calculation I made when I was coming out of university is if I wanted a high paying job,
00:28:52.340
is house prices got so high is that a lot of young people started to realise,
00:28:58.820
And then it's all going to go to my boomer landlord.
00:29:01.400
And I'll actually be taking less take home pay than if I just got a normal job outside of London.
00:29:07.520
I do get why a lot of younger people are very resentful,
00:29:12.060
especially when the older generation boomer types or even slightly younger than boomer types say,
00:29:19.680
I saved for a couple of years and bought a house.
00:29:39.080
you can't because house prices have tripled in that time.
00:29:45.140
which would barely be enough for a deposit on a house that's worth one,
00:29:51.000
You have to keep earning loads to afford the repayments.
00:30:04.840
The amount that you've borrowed is more than the value of the house.
00:30:22.600
I spent a long time in London and house prices just always went up.
00:30:29.120
Because we've done a bit of content before all about bubbles.
00:30:42.680
So it's so happened that these 30 years began perhaps in 1997 with the opening.
00:30:59.940
And then the Boris wave was sort of the cherry on top of this very combustible mix.
00:31:08.220
when you said that you were going to be doing a house price in London segment.
00:31:10.360
So I went and looked up my old house that I used to have in London.
00:31:17.560
And I sold it three years later because I just eventually thought,
00:31:22.520
So I then sold it three years later and it increased by 200,000 pounds in three years.
00:31:30.980
You're telling me this has gone up 200 grand in three years from 325.
00:31:36.560
so I looked it up this morning and it's now in the last,
00:31:42.900
So what actually probably happened is it went way past that and then it's come down.
00:31:52.040
a situation really where the highest priced houses are the ones that are going down the
00:32:08.200
there were several decades when it was a divine right that you would see five to 10% capital
00:32:18.340
And the consensus of the experts is that the peak was around 2014 for some prices,
00:32:26.860
the assumption that the sort of mid level of the market,
00:32:29.480
the one that's families would be interested in and we able to afford,
00:32:35.040
that that would be at least hopefully more stable.
00:32:42.840
a very short clip about what's been happening to the prices in that mid segment.
00:32:49.260
The original asking price of this flat was £450,000.
00:32:53.140
And there was a moment on the phone with the agent where he just said,
00:32:59.940
I can't share your offer with the seller to 250.
00:33:03.400
The last time a flat sold in this building in 2016,
00:33:14.620
The price is down 15% year on year in prime central London,
00:33:21.460
The reason why they will accept this offer is because they got no other option.
00:33:32.380
People cannot believe to the extent central London's clamps.
00:33:37.820
is a tipping point of where so many people out there believe that that asset is
00:33:44.800
And it's only when they really come to sell it,
00:33:46.600
this guy started at £450,000 and ended up at £250,000.
00:33:49.600
This is remarkable because you would have expected that,
00:34:00.420
the consensus that was from the conservative government through the labor
00:34:14.060
I forgot who raised the stamp duty on the upper end of the market quite
00:34:20.780
you would have thought that this was going to sort of only affect the
00:34:29.800
and this guy knows the stuff about real estate to say the least,
00:34:33.000
the middle and lower end of the markets are also crashing.
00:34:51.220
but then the offer that was accepted was for 250,000,
00:34:57.400
if these London house prices are getting cheaper,
00:35:07.100
because London is still an absolute cesspool of crime and
00:35:18.400
prices shouldn't be falling because there is so much restriction on
00:35:31.440
it's not 76% of the social housing going to foreigners.
00:35:50.360
I feel like a mug for not having abused the system.
00:36:11.180
I know London very well until just a few years ago,
00:37:05.540
in order to restrict supply of housing further,
00:37:12.220
they were exploring ways in which to make more social housing available.
00:37:18.040
They decided that they were going to give people who were already in social housing lifetime tenancies.
00:37:33.740
You're part of the aristocracy and of a privileged class.
00:37:45.760
I quite like the idea of turning Westminster into a hellhole though.
00:37:55.340
and it tells you that the economically inactive portion
00:38:12.540
And they are getting the best housing in Britain,
00:38:20.900
they are destroying the value of the properties
00:38:41.240
you could live in one of the greatest cultural capitals of Europe.
00:39:37.840
I'll tell you something else interesting as well.
00:39:41.480
I'll just stick my kid in a private school then.