The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1214

00:00:00.080 Hello and welcome to the podcast of The Load Seaters, episode 1214 for Wednesday the 23rd of July 2025.

00:00:08.560 I'm your host, Luca, joined today by Lestelios.

00:00:11.700 Hello everyone.

00:00:12.320 Returned from his odyssey around Greece, back to, but not Ithaca, Swindon this time.

00:00:18.700 And special guest, Charlie Downs. Thanks for coming in today, Charlie.

00:00:21.580 Thank you, Luca. Great to be here as always.

00:00:23.200 Wonderful.

00:00:23.480 We're going to be talking to you today about the Britannia Hotel in London being colonized, the latest in the long line of hotels, to get such a treatment.

00:00:33.760 We're then going to talk about the Mehdi Hassan versus the Pine Sap incident, right?

00:00:40.840 And then we're going to be talking about why Kemi Badenoch is probably just finished at this point.

00:00:46.760 Yeah, it's over.

00:00:47.580 I want to say something to everyone here.

00:00:50.180 First of all, no one likes coming back from summer holidays, but the very fact that I'm here with you two, esteemed gentlemen, in this office and talking to you actually makes things better.

00:01:02.260 So, I mean, things could be worse.

00:01:04.460 That's very wholesome.

00:01:05.040 Thank you very much.

00:01:05.520 Yeah, cheers for that.

00:01:07.000 Right, let's begin by talking about the Britannia Hotel.

00:01:10.580 Okay. So, obviously, as I've covered in two segments in the past week now, everything that was going on in Epping and with the Bell Hotel over there in Essex and the genuinely remarkable protests that we were seeing outside that hotel, not just in terms of numbers, but in terms of conduct.

00:01:31.660 Yes.

00:01:31.980 And the way that all these locals have come out in a really, really sophisticated way that the whole community should be really proud of.

00:01:39.580 And so I'd just like to start by talking a little bit, rounding that story out.

00:01:44.880 Obviously, one of the main things was that the police, the local Essex police first denied that they were helping to traffic anti-protesters, anti-racist protesters to the hotel.

00:01:59.160 Well, it's a little harder to deny once you're caught on camera doing it. 0.96

00:02:03.740 This is just so ridiculous, this. 0.98

00:02:05.960 And, like, heads need to roll for this. 0.98

00:02:07.740 I mean, what exactly, what guidelines permitted the police to do this?

00:02:11.480 Because it seemed like they were quite actively trying to kind of, well, stir up conflict, basically.

00:02:17.240 I mean, why else would they be?

00:02:18.520 I think it was, the reason I've seen going around is something like they're duty bound to facilitate freedom of assembly and expression,

00:02:25.680 which is quite an interesting justification for basically bussing in rival groups of protesters,

00:02:30.620 one of whom are local people concerned about their children, the other of whom are, like, state-sponsored foot soldiers, agitators.

00:02:36.520 Yeah.

00:02:36.840 To kind of, you know, foment a conflict.

00:02:40.260 It's meant to be a negative right, not a positive right.

00:02:43.140 Yeah, right.

00:02:43.860 You don't have a right to be transported by the police.

00:02:47.000 Yeah, the right to be bussed by the law.

00:02:49.540 To your nearest demonstration.

00:02:51.560 It is an interesting interpretation of freedom of assembly, I'll give them that.

00:02:54.020 Well, this goes on to say in this article that the police have admitted escorting pro-migrant protesters to the hotel that we were just talking about.

00:03:03.640 And they said, however, the force backtracked after being shown footage of the protesters being escorted.

00:03:10.080 We have a reasonable duty to protect people who want to exercise their rights.

00:03:15.180 In terms of bringing people to the hotel, the police have a duty to, as you say, Charlie, facilitate free assembly.

00:03:21.960 We would only ever take people away from protest if we felt there was an immediate threat to people or property to free up police resources, to protect others, or to prevent additional violence.

00:03:35.660 I have a right not to be taxed.

00:03:38.040 Will the police do something about it?

00:03:40.180 Will they facilitate it?

00:03:41.740 Well, I would prefer that right be enforced.

00:03:43.900 I'll give you that one.

00:03:44.800 I'll give you that one.

00:03:46.360 So, as always, Rupert is asking the important questions here, writing to Ms. Balls, as Bo would call her.

00:03:56.040 You've got questions like, who authorized the decision to escort the counter-protesters to the Bell Hotel?

00:04:02.800 Why did Essex police initially deny escorting the group?

00:04:06.720 And what disciplinary action will be taken over misleading public statements?

00:04:14.500 Who will be sacked?

00:04:15.540 When will that decision be taken?

00:04:17.600 Amongst other important questions.

00:04:20.080 Finishing, obviously, with will you commit to deporting every single illegal migrant and closing these awful hotels down for good? 0.99

00:04:25.100 Because that is actually the larger issue at play here.

00:04:27.120 The larger issue.

00:04:27.960 They're not going to do that.

00:04:29.340 And as Rupert even says himself there, you know, he knows that power doesn't entirely just rest.

00:04:34.060 That's going to be a long game thing.

00:04:35.560 But right now, we do need all of those questions answered, as you say.

00:04:40.440 I'm willing to bet that the answer to the question, if anyone is going to get sacked, is no.

00:04:46.520 Not happy with it.

00:04:47.560 Just saying that I think that that's what...

00:04:49.100 Tends to be the way.

00:04:50.260 People rarely see consequences for this sort of thing when they're acting as agents of the state.

00:04:54.480 It is weird, this whole thing.

00:04:55.780 Because, like, I try and not be too sort of conspiratorial-brained, right?

00:04:59.820 Because, I mean, I think that conspiracies do obviously happen.

00:05:02.440 In fact, that's probably the majority of politics.

00:05:04.300 But at the same time, the idea that, like, the government is seeking to actually foment civil unrest and conflict, you know, I find that, well, it becomes less and less hard to believe with every passing day.

00:05:15.560 But, like, do we, you know, to what end would they be kind of seeking to cause that kind of thing to happen?

00:05:22.980 Is it to crack down?

00:05:23.900 Maybe it is.

00:05:24.440 Maybe they want an excuse to crack down hard on the so-called far right.

00:05:29.120 But this kind of thing that happens, you know, when you see that the police literally bussing in counter-protesters with their professionally produced placards and masks as well.

00:05:37.540 That was the other thing.

00:05:38.360 Like, none of the locals were masked.

00:05:39.720 But the people that were bussing in were wearing masks.

00:05:42.000 And that's got to, I mean, that raises some eyebrows for sure.

00:05:44.180 Why are they doing that?

00:05:45.140 Like, what are the reasons?

00:05:46.000 Yeah, I mean, there are all sorts of conjectures we could think of.

00:05:50.680 I mean, it could also be very simple.

00:05:53.420 These people know these particular police officers.

00:05:56.580 Yeah.

00:05:57.080 And, you know, they have infiltrated within the police force.

00:06:01.860 And they say, okay, right, they are our guys and we are going to transport them to the nearest demonstration.

00:06:08.160 But it just shows you there's a larger point here, which I think isn't made enough.

00:06:11.700 Which is that there was a time where it was an article of faith as a conservative-minded person or a right-winger or in the States a Republican to be pro-police.

00:06:20.120 And to back the police kind of almost to the hilt because, you know, they're protecting the public.

00:06:24.900 It increasingly looks like they're basically agents of a hostile state that exists to, you know, oppress the indigenous people.

00:06:31.840 We covered this on the podcast yesterday.

00:06:33.900 Dan did a segment talking all about the police finding themselves to be racist.

00:06:37.880 But just the fact that the English population was really the main population, main community of England, that actually allowed itself to be policed with consent.

00:06:51.680 Right.

00:06:51.840 These were your natural allies.

00:06:53.280 These were the people who could help you work alongside you to foster community cohesion.

00:06:58.440 And instead you decided to basically turn your batons on them.

00:07:02.520 Yeah.

00:07:03.020 Yeah.

00:07:03.300 And your high-vis jackets.

00:07:04.740 Yeah.

00:07:04.920 And see them as enemies.

00:07:05.860 So with everything that has been happening in Epping recently and the great victories that the people were having there, you then started having rumors swirling about online that a lot of these illegals in the Epping Hotel were being moved over to the Britannia Hotel.

00:07:26.900 Now, I just want to say I've not found any personal conclusive proof as to that being the case.

00:07:33.920 But what we do know is that there are illegals in the Britannia Hotel at Canary Wharf.

00:07:41.640 I don't know whether or not they're the same ones.

00:07:44.420 I'll come back to you on that one.

00:07:45.940 But this is quite the step up from the Epping Hotel.

00:07:50.880 This is a four-star hotel.

00:07:52.560 Looks nice.

00:07:53.180 It looks pretty good.

00:07:54.320 It costs a pretty penny as well.

00:07:55.720 I'll take you through some of the pictures there.

00:07:57.940 Goodness me.

00:07:58.620 Better than anything I've ever owned, I can tell you that.

00:08:01.140 Why do they have two chairs there? 0.97

00:08:04.980 Because sometimes you can have more than one person in the hotel room, Stelios.

00:08:09.680 Yeah.

00:08:09.900 Usually it's one chair there.

00:08:14.140 The one person who sits there and is the witness.

00:08:16.860 Maybe in a three-star hotel.

00:08:18.620 They have two witnesses there.

00:08:20.680 Well, maybe in a three-star hotel, but we're dealing with a big league here.

00:08:24.720 So one of the other interesting things about this as well is that I went to just try and book some rooms out on this to see, you know, July, August.

00:08:35.740 Oh, sorry.

00:08:36.640 No availability, funnily enough.

00:08:39.420 And so you get here a lot of people that it's worth going through, leaving these one-star reviews now.

00:08:45.840 Avoid this untrustworthy hotel chain.

00:08:48.280 On the 9th of June, I booked and fully paid for two rooms, and the hotel has been taken by a large group booking all of a sudden.

00:08:59.120 And there are many reviews, July, saying the same.

00:09:03.440 Look, that person there says, coming all the way from Italy.

00:09:06.420 Yeah.

00:09:06.760 And it's just been cancelled.

00:09:07.960 So holidaygoers having their bookings terminated for the purposes, of course, of moving more and more war-breaking sea people into the United Kingdom and housing them at our expense. 1.00

00:09:27.180 And of course...

00:09:27.820 It's interesting that, you know, Canary Wharf is like, obviously there is a residential area, but it's primarily offices and business, etc.

00:09:33.960 But it's interesting that somewhere like that, which is...

00:09:37.560 I mean, it's not exactly going to be...

00:09:40.960 I can't help but think that the kind of people that would live in an area like that are not going to be the kind of people that would go out and protest this kind of thing.

00:09:48.440 They're young professionals, etc.

00:09:50.040 But actually, that has happened.

00:09:51.960 And that's an interesting development in and of itself, I think.

00:09:54.740 Isn't it close to the city or part of the city?

00:09:58.100 No, it's opposite Thames.

00:09:59.780 It's on the Thames.

00:10:00.860 Yeah, but it's right opposite the city.

00:10:03.960 I don't know about this hotel specifically, but it's certainly in that area.

00:10:06.980 Yeah.

00:10:07.240 I couldn't...

00:10:07.640 So, generally speaking, it's supposed to be close to one of the economic centres.

00:10:12.680 Yes.

00:10:13.180 Yes, this is true.

00:10:14.320 Yeah.

00:10:14.940 Well, to be honest with you, Charlie, that was one of the things that I had originally led me to believe the speculation that these people had been moved from Epping to here.

00:10:24.640 Because I thought as well, well, probably the most sensible place to move them to, London.

00:10:29.680 I mean, who's going to complain about just another broken neighbourhood in London?

00:10:33.520 Yes, quite.

00:10:34.140 Right?

00:10:34.480 You won't even notice it in the way that the tranquility of Epping was disturbed.

00:10:38.220 There is...

00:10:38.980 I mean, I think this report came out either last year or the year before, so it's likely substantially high now.

00:10:42.800 But there's over a million illegal migrants in London right now.

00:10:45.380 Yeah.

00:10:45.560 And so it's just a drop in the bucket.

00:10:47.040 Yeah, the 500 that are being kept in the...

00:10:48.680 In the...

00:10:49.520 Is it...

00:10:50.520 Wait, sorry.

00:10:50.760 Britannia.

00:10:51.280 That's the one.

00:10:51.780 The Britannia Hotel.

00:10:52.560 Yeah.

00:10:52.840 So obviously, we'll have no support from the local MP, ladies and gentlemen, because it's a Spana Begum, independent MP for Poplar and Limehouse, which includes Canary Wharf.

00:11:04.840 Yeah.

00:11:05.020 We are clear refugees are welcome here.

00:11:07.360 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:07.820 We've heard it all before and we're kind of sick of it at this point.

00:11:10.840 Let's carry on.

00:11:12.180 So then Chris Rose brought up this, the fact that people are getting WhatsApp messages through, saying that they wanted to let them know that there are recent developments regarding the relocation of asylum seekers and refugees to a nearby hotel.

00:11:26.620 Well, we understand that some of you may be feeling concerned, especially following the protests in Epping.

00:11:32.920 Please rest assured...

00:11:33.980 Not to mention the sexual assaults.

00:11:35.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:36.780 Not that.

00:11:37.260 Focusing on the protests is the problem.

00:11:38.900 Mm-hmm.

00:11:40.180 Please rest assured that the estate team is taking this seriously.

00:11:43.720 We will be sitting down to review and discuss all our security options, other than just not housing them.

00:11:50.260 Yeah.

00:11:50.700 Other than the obvious one.

00:11:52.140 Poor.

00:11:52.600 Yeah.

00:11:52.780 Yeah.

00:11:53.100 So Jack Hadfield went down there and decided to go do some reporting and speaking with a lot of the people who had come out.

00:12:03.300 Jack is a good man.

00:12:04.120 Jack is.

00:12:04.480 Follow him.

00:12:04.980 Yeah.

00:12:05.460 He was also in Epping as well.

00:12:07.960 We got some good reporting from him there.

00:12:09.520 So keep up the good work, Jack.

00:12:11.580 But you have here this woman, Nathalie, can't remember her surname.

00:12:17.360 We were all ratioing her last night and she's since deleted it.

00:12:23.100 Daring me.

00:12:24.020 Shame.

00:12:25.000 But I'll just play you the first 30 seconds.

00:12:27.440 What did she say?

00:12:28.520 Well.

00:12:28.980 Okay, yeah.

00:12:29.580 Thank you.

00:12:30.460 Thank you.

00:12:31.620 I just think it's really, really important for people to understand that there are no safe and legal routes for refugees to come to this country. 1.00

00:12:39.620 This is the only way they can come here.

00:12:41.640 It's on a boat to pay, to pay.

00:12:46.020 Yeah, they've got the whole of Europe.

00:12:48.900 Why should we put that burden on the rest of Europe?

00:12:52.420 But do you not think?

00:12:53.100 I'm going to leave it there just because there's a very outraged chap towards the end.

00:12:58.420 So they are a burden for every other country in Europe, but not for England.

00:13:04.320 Yes.

00:13:04.940 Well, towards the end, there's a chap who gets quite liberal with his See You Next Tuesdays.

00:13:10.420 And don't get me wrong, it was a tremendous film.

00:13:13.960 You love to see it, but obviously for the sake of YouTube, I can't be playing that.

00:13:18.040 Honestly, though, I mean, I knew so many of these types, like when I was at uni, for example.

00:13:22.640 I went to a very liberal university, so these types were ten a penny.

00:13:25.660 And it's just, it always fascinates me, and I make this point often, it seems like, you know, to myself.

00:13:30.900 But, you know, people like this young lady, I'm sure she's perfectly nice.

00:13:34.960 Like, I don't have anything against her personally.

00:13:36.680 But she clearly thinks of herself as being some kind of representative or agent for the dispossessed, the downtrodden, you know, fighting the power, et cetera.

00:13:44.680 When the reality of the matter is she is a foot soldier of the power structure.

00:13:48.600 She is, you know, acting as an agent of the establishment. 0.93

00:13:50.880 Fushing an open door.

00:13:51.780 Absolutely right.

00:13:52.560 So she's actually the opposite of a radical.

00:13:54.820 She is a regime.

00:13:56.160 She's also doing the meme, you know, with Daenerys from Game of Thrones,

00:13:59.760 where, say, this is how white leftist liberals feel, what are they talking about?

00:14:04.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:04.920 They're talking about migrants. 0.69

00:14:06.600 It's just, and it's just so wild that, you know, she's a young woman.

00:14:10.880 And, you know, she is going to be, if these people were to be moved into her neighborhood, she would be at risk.

00:14:17.220 She'd be one of the people most at risk because...

00:14:19.420 Whether she acknowledges the risk or not.

00:14:21.440 Yeah, but...

00:14:22.080 Change the risk.

00:14:22.860 Yeah.

00:14:24.300 She may do so, but I don't think she understands it.

00:14:28.240 And to be fair to her, she doesn't say she does that.

00:14:29.360 Well, no, she's a member of the Green Party.

00:14:31.060 She doesn't understand anything.

00:14:32.380 Exactly.

00:14:32.840 She's one of those... 1.00

00:14:34.240 She's like one of those couples who wake up one day and say,

00:14:37.900 no, it's just bad conservatives who tell us that people are, generally speaking, aggressive.

00:14:43.860 So let's travel to the nearest cannibal tribe.

00:14:47.180 And we're not going to get eaten. 0.51

00:14:49.660 They get eaten every time.

00:14:51.340 And look, maybe I'm being idealistic,

00:14:53.200 but, like, I am at a point now where I'm not actually that interested in kind of coming down hard on people like this.

00:14:57.900 No.

00:14:58.220 You just want to say to them, like, look, it's not unreasonable to just recognise that what's happening to this country is just not good.

00:15:03.320 It's not good for normal people.

00:15:04.620 Just get out of the way. 0.64

00:15:05.380 Yeah.

00:15:05.540 Move aside. 0.88

00:15:06.240 Yeah.

00:15:06.620 Or just, like, just recognise that you're not evil for wanting to live in a safe country.

00:15:10.760 You're not evil to recognise the reality of the fact that this country simply doesn't have the capacity for more migrants, legal or illegal. 1.00

00:15:17.140 Like, or asylum seekers or anything like that.

00:15:18.760 We don't have...

00:15:19.500 You know, you walk in the streets of this country,

00:15:20.740 do you think we have the infrastructure and the means to have a refugee system?

00:15:24.340 Like, we're in no position to be offering asylum to anybody, you know, whether legitimately or not.

00:15:29.060 That's correct what you're saying.

00:15:30.940 But the point is, if you factor in the sort of leftist indoctrination according to which it's all the rich and the rich is every...

00:15:40.540 Everyone is globally rich, which means that every working class person in England counts as globally rich.

00:15:46.620 Yeah.

00:15:47.100 Let's tax them because they're bad people.

00:15:49.640 Yeah.

00:15:50.020 So, in her mind, it's nowhere near full capacity.

00:15:53.520 I know.

00:15:54.120 Or infrastructure pressure.

00:15:55.920 I just find it increasingly impossible to believe that these people exist, to be honest.

00:16:00.320 Well...

00:16:00.520 And I just want to appeal to them.

00:16:01.420 I just want to shake them and just say, just look at what's happening around you.

00:16:04.060 Like, it's just so frustrating.

00:16:05.080 You can be real.

00:16:06.140 Yeah.

00:16:06.500 Yeah.

00:16:06.840 No.

00:16:07.020 Well, you know, the people of Britain are trapped in a very abusive prison system.

00:16:12.880 And the jailer is people with this ideology.

00:16:16.900 This ideology is just holding us to ransom and abuse and has been doing for years now.

00:16:22.380 Yeah.

00:16:22.640 Years and years.

00:16:23.560 And that's perhaps why the gentleman came down so hard on her at the end.

00:16:29.600 Well, people are just sick of it.

00:16:30.500 They are.

00:16:31.040 Yeah.

00:16:31.320 They are entirely sick of it.

00:16:32.540 So, let's move over to talking about, some more about the day unheard.

00:16:39.380 Canary Wharf erupts as protesters rally against migrant hotel plans.

00:16:43.960 And, as you were saying earlier, if the gamble was, oh, how's them in London, it'll all go peacefully.

00:16:51.300 Yeah.

00:16:52.220 Miscalculation there.

00:16:53.680 Miscalculation there.

00:16:54.640 So, tensions flared in Canary Wharf on Tuesday night as hundreds gathered to protest the reports used of the Britannia International Hotel to house asylum seekers.

00:17:05.600 And the demonstration marked the latest in a series of anti-migrant rallies across the UK.

00:17:11.180 Obviously, it goes on to talk about hot off the heels of Epping.

00:17:14.040 And I also found this particular part interesting.

00:17:19.880 Opposite the hotel, a swarm of live streamers and independent media reporting on events.

00:17:24.880 They surrounded a 17-year-old activist called Young Bob, Bob, who won applause after calling for deportations and demanding hotel owners stopped leasing their properties to the government.

00:17:37.840 He accused Reform UK of breaking its local election pledge to prevent migrants from being housed in areas where they were not wanted, arguing that constituencies should have the ability to remove migrants.

00:17:52.120 Perfectly sound.

00:17:53.020 It is.

00:17:53.400 Perfectly reasonable.

00:17:54.120 And look at that, 17 years old.

00:17:55.520 Yeah.

00:17:55.800 As well, you know.

00:17:57.040 Maybe we should lower the voting age, Keir.

00:18:01.300 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:02.240 I mean, I apologize if I'm, you know, getting ahead here.

00:18:05.120 Look, you may bring this up.

00:18:06.500 But it is interesting, the message that's being sent now.

00:18:09.160 Because the Epping protest worked.

00:18:11.240 And that's the thing.

00:18:11.880 It did.

00:18:12.100 It worked.

00:18:12.620 The local MP caved and, you know, forced the illegals that were there to relocate. 0.98

00:18:17.240 And the message that that sends is that actually the only, and I want to be careful how I say this, but the only language that the state recognizes is the threat of force.

00:18:27.260 The threat.

00:18:27.820 Not force itself.

00:18:28.820 We disavow the use of force.

00:18:29.920 We do.

00:18:30.060 But the threat of force, clearly, is all that this government recognizes.

00:18:33.820 And that goes in the case of the English community, but it also goes in the case of the Muslim community and the various others who have come to occupy our island. 1.00

00:18:41.640 And so it's interesting how quickly that has manifested itself with this protest outside of the Canary Wharf Hotel.

00:18:49.480 Because it's clear that people are realizing, actually, we can actually do something about this.

00:18:52.660 People have the feeling of agency that they felt they've lacked for such a long time.

00:18:56.880 And the way they do it is not on the ballot box.

00:18:58.300 It's by getting out into the streets.

00:19:00.060 And that's interesting.

00:19:01.220 It is.

00:19:01.800 And that's not a good development, by the way.

00:19:03.420 No.

00:19:03.600 It should be at the ballot box that we can fix these things.

00:19:05.600 But people increasingly feel like it's just not viable.

00:19:09.120 No.

00:19:09.440 The issue is that, you know, there are all sorts of forms going out of the streets.

00:19:15.900 Yes.

00:19:16.640 Some of them are tolerable or permissible.

00:19:19.420 Some of them are not.

00:19:20.420 Some of them are not.

00:19:21.080 But the issue with the ballot box is that if it's once every four or five years about an overall agenda, and then for four or five years it's complete lack of participation, then, yes, the governments are going to feel considerably less pressured to deliver on their promises.

00:19:42.040 Yeah.

00:19:42.520 Yeah.

00:19:42.940 So, obviously there has to be a distinction between good and bad ways of being political.

00:19:48.660 Yeah.

00:19:48.980 And do you remember as well?

00:19:49.940 Being political.

00:19:50.800 I think it was earlier this year.

00:19:51.820 But it has to be more than once every four or five years.

00:19:55.180 Well, and this is the thing.

00:19:56.100 I think it was earlier this year.

00:19:57.320 There was that parliamentary petition to call a general election.

00:19:59.680 It got like millions of signatures.

00:20:02.240 Obviously it didn't lead to anything.

00:20:03.740 No.

00:20:03.840 So, you know, how are people supposed to change things in between elections?

00:20:07.680 Or you could see that this is a pressure mechanism.

00:20:10.340 Yeah.

00:20:11.320 Yeah.

00:20:12.080 Yeah.

00:20:12.480 So, it wasn't going to call general elections.

00:20:15.620 Mm.

00:20:16.660 But it was something.

00:20:17.700 No.

00:20:18.440 So, then you also have the fact that the – I'll just go on to Patrick Christie's.

00:20:25.820 Today, a Home Office spokesman told us that the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf was categorically not being used as a migrant hotel.

00:20:34.200 Now, it turns out that it has been taken over for use as an overflow facility.

00:20:39.140 It's like, why lie about such provable lies?

00:20:43.420 I know.

00:20:43.960 And we've seen what lying does.

00:20:46.320 It just makes things so much worse.

00:20:47.860 Right.

00:20:48.120 In the case of Southport last year.

00:20:49.920 Covering up and lying, it just makes people really angry.

00:20:52.120 People who are already angry, it's just like throwing petrol on the fire.

00:20:54.880 All of this is born out of distrust.

00:20:56.960 Yeah.

00:20:57.540 And distrust breeds resentment and resentment breeds hatred, right, of the system.

00:21:02.300 Yeah.

00:21:02.800 And the government – I don't even say government just meaning labor, obviously, just governments we've had all our lives.

00:21:11.200 Yeah.

00:21:11.500 They just refuse to change in these tactics.

00:21:14.300 Where's the transparency?

00:21:15.520 Where's the honesty?

00:21:16.600 Yeah.

00:21:16.800 And, obviously, that's why you have very sensible positions like this from Rupert, which is illegal migrants don't need hotels. 0.92

00:21:24.880 They need tents, lots and lots of tents.

00:21:28.780 Securely detain them in a tented camp on Ministry of Defence land until they can be sent home.

00:21:35.320 Why is this even controversial?

00:21:37.180 Yeah, well, this was a policy that we came out with this morning, Restore Britain being us, that basically lays out the case for, you know, it would be cheaper, safer, and more efficient to house these people on a bit of land with tents and a kind of, you know, minimum humanitarian standards.

00:21:56.240 So we're not talking about letting people live in squalor, but what we are talking about is minimal food, minimal clothing, as little as is moral to give.

00:22:04.380 And it just, you know, it would prevent these incidents where these, you know, unvetted thug foreign men who are put up in local communities sexually assault and rape young women who live in those areas. 0.58

00:22:16.420 Yeah, that wouldn't be a risk or robbery or working illegally, whether that be actually committing crimes or as a food delivery driver.

00:22:23.300 All of that is not an issue.

00:22:25.380 And, of course, this is a stepping stone.

00:22:28.140 Like, it's not the ultimate solution to the problem, but it would at least mitigate some of the risks that are, well, running riot right now.

00:22:34.780 Yeah, to the local British people.

00:22:37.320 And also, you know, it's just that thing, isn't it?

00:22:39.540 Like, well, good God, if you're housing them in a four-star hotel in the middle of London with rooms like that, how quick is that going to be on TikToks?

00:22:48.100 And how quick is that going to incentivize even more to come across?

00:22:51.520 Yeah, whereas, you know, the tent plan has the opposite effect.

00:22:55.020 You know, it's a deterrent.

00:22:55.680 Right.

00:22:56.360 Yeah.

00:22:57.040 So, in that case, why even leave France?

00:22:59.900 So, if you want to do something constructive and helpful, I very much suggest going and joining Restore Britain, which Charlie is very much a part of.

00:23:08.900 Indeed.

00:23:09.660 The membership's been going very, very well.

00:23:11.780 It's £20 a month, isn't it?

00:23:13.240 £20 a year.

00:23:13.980 £20 a year, yeah.

00:23:15.300 Two badly priced pints in the wrong pub in London.

00:23:18.880 Quite, yeah.

00:23:19.440 And you can really make a difference.

00:23:21.260 That's the point.

00:23:22.120 I mean, it's coming together.

00:23:23.080 We were just talking about how, in between elections, it's very hard to put pressure on the government, but this is how you do it.

00:23:27.600 I mean, Restore Britain is the vehicle that is going to...

00:23:31.700 I mean, we're already changing the discourse.

00:23:33.740 Like, we've already had reform commit to being net negative immigration, which was directly as a result of our activism.

00:23:39.380 So, join up.

00:23:41.060 Do just that.

00:23:41.680 So, I'll just go to the rumble rants.

00:23:44.940 I've got Tomrat says, the problem is, Charlie here, her vote nullifies yours.

00:23:53.340 Highline is...

00:23:54.180 I'm sorry, I'm not an expert on highline is...

00:23:57.300 It's the wrong host today.

00:23:58.920 Sorry about that.

00:23:59.420 That's just like service guarantees citizenship, I guess.

00:24:01.600 Hapsification says, if these sea people are becoming even more prevalent, are we seeing the signs of our very own late Bronze Age collapse? 1.00

00:24:11.000 No, I don't think that we're collapsing.

00:24:13.240 I think that we're being held hostage.

00:24:14.660 I think that there's an enormous amount of patriotic energy.

00:24:18.680 Don't let anyone tell you that it's over.

00:24:20.020 It's far from over.

00:24:20.820 This is a blip.

00:24:21.780 The last 30 periods are a blip.

00:24:23.560 This is not a Duma podcast.

00:24:26.680 No.

00:24:27.040 And LoganPine17 says, this might be Fed posting, so I'll read the rest in my head.

00:24:32.240 But I have to say, I won't...

00:24:33.860 That's not abut.

00:24:34.240 Yeah, no, that's...

00:24:35.160 No, people who have complested in all this should absolutely be held to account for their crimes.

00:24:41.300 I agree.

00:24:43.460 Okay, right.

00:24:44.320 Let's move on to y'all still, yes.

00:24:46.940 Okay.

00:24:47.760 Right.

00:24:48.340 So there was a debate, a Jubilee performance, let's say, or event with Mehdi Hassan and 20 allegedly far-right conservatives.

00:24:59.660 And there was an instance where one of them called, I think, Connor Estelle, also known as Pine Sap, he lost his job.

00:25:10.820 Right.

00:25:11.900 And...

00:25:12.380 As a result of...

00:25:13.120 As a result of his appearance and participation in this.

00:25:16.800 So I will say that I dislike cancel culture.

00:25:21.240 And I think that generally speaking, it's a bad thing.

00:25:25.080 But I think if we abstract from the particular case, because it's not enough to talk about someone if you just see them talking about two or three minutes.

00:25:36.760 We can make all sorts of value judgments.

00:25:39.300 We will talk about it during the segment.

00:25:43.300 But I think that the most important thing that I want to talk about in this is ways of debating that are good, ways of debating that are bad, and ways of debating that are entirely self-serving, as opposed to helping getting some good points across.

00:26:00.520 And also, not allowing people like Mehdi Hassan look like the defender of Western civilization.

00:26:06.400 Oh God, is that what it's come to?

00:26:08.360 Yeah, because if you look at it, and in some people's minds, they're a minority, but in their minds, just being completely...

00:26:20.360 Just reacting by saying any accusation the left is directing towards me, I'll accept, and I will market myself as a caricature of what the left has constantly being bombarding everyone that people on the right are, or non-leftists are, this isn't helping.

00:26:41.180 This actually helps the left.

00:26:42.860 This helps people like Mehdi Hassan appear like the defenders of Western civilization. 0.52

00:26:49.440 Like a reasonable one, yeah.

00:26:50.460 Well, this was the thing.

00:26:51.060 I saw people, you know, it was going around that Mehdi Hassan got destroyed by some of these people, and I watched it, and I was like, he didn't.

00:26:56.280 He won. 0.99

00:26:57.120 You know, he made a lot of those people look pretty foolish. 0.90

00:26:59.320 Yeah, so we'll show you clips, but I want to start by saying that I really dislike this Jubilee setup.

00:27:05.820 I'll start playing this here without a sound, because I think that there is something particularly problematic about this.

00:27:15.080 So, you know, you have someone like Mehdi Hassan, in other cases was Ben Shapiro, in other cases was Jordan Peterson, and they are debating a multitude of people, and they don't have enough time.

00:27:27.960 In some cases, they have five minutes, in other cases, they have 20 minutes I see there, but generally speaking, I think that these kinds of conversations need more time, and podcasts are uniquely good for this, and I think we are doing a good job about this, because when you want to have paradigm shift in conversations, no, it's actually, it's objectively true.

00:27:50.920 This is not conducive to actual, like, progress.

00:27:53.820 So, you see, it's, he makes a claim, and people are going to just run, you know, as if they're in Hunger Games or something, to get a seat, and then they're going to have a limited amount of time.

00:28:06.220 It's such slop.

00:28:07.080 Yeah.

00:28:07.640 It's such a gimmick.

00:28:09.180 It's just, yeah.

00:28:10.120 Generally speaking, that's not the...

00:28:11.640 Average far-right conservative.

00:28:12.880 That's not...

00:28:13.820 That, exactly, yes.

00:28:16.100 But that's not the kind of setup you want for serious conversations, especially when there are conversations that are challenging paradigms.

00:28:24.880 Yeah.

00:28:25.260 Because when you're challenging paradigms, you want a lot of time to contextualize what you're saying.

00:28:33.200 And challenging paradigms can take all sorts of forms.

00:28:36.880 Some of them are good.

00:28:37.700 Some of them are bad.

00:28:38.960 Some of them can be sensible.

00:28:40.780 Others are completely insensible.

00:28:42.660 Right.

00:28:43.480 So, I think that, basically, this kind of setup is uniquely tailored in order to make clips and clicks and impressions on X and other platforms.

00:28:55.480 It's not...

00:28:56.260 It's ripe for misinterpretation, ripe for misrepresentation most of the time.

00:29:02.060 Some of the times, people are very explicit.

00:29:03.680 But it's not the kind of setup you want for...

00:29:07.080 It's not the kind of setup you want for...

00:29:11.080 For these conversations.

00:29:13.980 So, to be fair, I thought that the Jordan Peterson one was actually pretty interesting.

00:29:19.660 There were some good quality conversations in that one.

00:29:22.680 I think that this was a particularly bad one because this is...

00:29:27.180 Yeah, I think that this was atrocious.

00:29:29.100 And it was a complete mistake of his part to accept being...

00:29:32.400 That's kind of what I mean.

00:29:33.160 Like, it really exposed the blind spots and weak points in Peterson's ideology.

00:29:37.160 And for that, I thought it was very interesting.

00:29:38.660 I'll be very honest.

00:29:39.740 I don't know if it did.

00:29:41.320 No?

00:29:41.720 And I'm not going to base my opinion on a small clip on it about it.

00:29:46.840 So, that's what I said.

00:29:48.400 All these things...

00:29:50.120 What you're ultimately looking at is, in every position, you have sophisticated versions of it.

00:29:57.120 Sometimes, some people may not be very quick in their speech.

00:30:01.620 It's one form of presentation of arguments that sometimes can sabotage your point from coming across.

00:30:12.180 And you need to evaluate it from all sorts of things.

00:30:14.900 Because Peterson might be putting forward a worldview.

00:30:18.180 Maybe it might have some weak spots that are exposed at the time.

00:30:23.780 But the other person may not have an ultimately better alternative.

00:30:28.060 No, of course.

00:30:28.840 That's why.

00:30:29.580 And the same applies for political conversations.

00:30:31.420 So, what I'm going to say about this debate between Mehdi Hassan and Pinesat, I've already said on Symposium 28, on the linguistic subversion of wokeness, where we are talking with Beau and Josh about conceptual psyops and some traps that the left has set within discourse.

00:30:51.420 A sort of push to lure people who are not leftists and to identify in the exact same ways that the left wants them to identify so they can put up a fuss and say, 0.96

00:31:05.760 hey, look, all these people are like that and some people definitely fall into this trap in whether because they're idiots or because they're naive, but not idiotic necessarily. 0.91

00:31:17.420 I'm trying to put it diplomatically or because they do it because it gets clicks and it's self-serving, self-serving, while ultimately helping the left by presenting it as the actual defender of Western civilization. 0.99

00:31:33.580 Right.

00:31:34.040 So, I want us to look at some two clips from it.

00:31:37.920 This is someone called Antunes who said, we should all carry ourselves like this, unapologetic, disruptive, smart, vision, and absolute political masterclass.

00:31:47.420 I completely disagree with this.

00:31:48.940 So do I.

00:31:49.740 And I think that, once again, it's important to not take it as an either or.

00:31:57.180 So, for instance, being unapologetic.

00:31:59.240 I think sometimes it's a good thing.

00:32:00.880 The question is, unapologetic about what?

00:32:03.860 Right.

00:32:04.260 Well, of course.

00:32:05.000 Yeah?

00:32:05.160 Well, like we were saying about the people in Epping being unapologetic about what they're standing for outside the migrant hotels. 1.00

00:32:11.900 Yes, that's the point where you can't equivocate.

00:32:14.800 Yeah.

00:32:15.240 There's no ground to cede there.

00:32:18.080 And that's, I mean, that has been a big problem for, you know, conservatives or whatever for a long time.

00:32:21.840 They have been apologetic about their views and about their identity.

00:32:25.560 Yeah.

00:32:26.520 So, let us play two clips from it.

00:32:28.300 Which is majority white and should stay that way. 0.97

00:32:30.480 How does the United States, I mean, we've gone so off topic, but how does the United States look like under your, sorry, what's your name?

00:32:36.900 My name is, well, my name's Connor.

00:32:39.520 It's a pleasure to meet you.

00:32:40.220 You took a little bit of a doubt there.

00:32:41.020 Oh, well, I use a pseudonym online.

00:32:42.920 Fair enough.

00:32:43.700 Fair enough.

00:32:44.300 How would Connor's America look?

00:32:46.020 What would it look like?

00:32:46.820 Well, quite frankly, I think we would deport people who shouldn't be here. 1.00

00:32:49.380 I didn't ask about deporting.

00:32:50.160 What does the government look like?

00:32:51.320 What does the government look like?

00:32:52.180 Yeah.

00:32:52.460 I would say, quite frankly, it's under a sort of benevolent leader such as, you know, Franco.

00:32:56.520 Where does he come from?

00:32:57.940 It could be a kind of aristocratic class.

00:33:00.120 Could be someone who picks the autocrat.

00:33:02.580 Frankly, the people.

00:33:03.620 I mean, we could hold a vote on it.

00:33:05.100 Kings were paid.

00:33:05.560 Isn't that democracy?

00:33:06.760 Well, sure.

00:33:07.560 You can have a vote to get to that state.

00:33:09.900 And then no more votes afterwards.

00:33:11.040 Absolutely.

00:33:12.120 Wow.

00:33:12.640 100%.

00:33:13.000 Wow. 0.99

00:33:13.480 And if that autocrat kills you and your family, you're fine with that. 0.93

00:33:16.520 Well, I'm not going to be a part of the group that he kills because that's a whole thing.

00:33:21.300 How do you know?

00:33:21.720 Well, Carl Schmitt makes this point very well in his work.

00:33:25.900 It's the friend-enemy distinction, right?

00:33:27.820 You liberals.

00:33:28.340 Carl Schmitt, the Nazi theoretician.

00:33:30.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:30.700 I don't care.

00:33:31.980 Are you a fan of the Nazis?

00:33:33.660 I don't care.

00:33:34.320 I frankly don't care being called a Nazi at all.

00:33:36.360 I didn't say that.

00:33:36.860 I didn't actually say that.

00:33:37.900 I said, are you a fan of the Nazis?

00:33:39.340 Well, they persecuted the church a little bit.

00:33:41.120 I'm not a fan of that.

00:33:42.220 But what about the persecution of the Jews?

00:33:44.440 Well, I mean, I certainly don't support anyone's human dignity being assaulted.

00:33:47.960 I'm a Catholic.

00:33:48.740 But you don't condemn Nazi persecution of the Jews?

00:33:51.900 I think that there was a little bit of persecution.

00:33:55.200 We may have to rename this show because you're a little bit more than a far-right Republican.

00:33:59.900 Hey, what can I say? 0.99

00:34:02.660 He just looked like a clown. 0.99

00:34:03.580 I think you could say, I'm a fascist. 0.99

00:34:05.140 Yeah, I am.

00:34:09.560 Absolutely.

00:34:10.480 I'm just checking who's clapping just to get my set of where everyone is on this.

00:34:13.920 Because you know that millions of people are going to be watching you on YouTube and checking out who the fascists and the Nazis are.

00:34:18.520 I'm not ashamed of that whatsoever.

00:34:19.640 No, clearly you're not.

00:34:20.400 During the pre-war period, prior to World War II, it was only those parties that properly enacted the people's will.

00:34:27.520 That's why they won. 0.94

00:34:28.400 The conservatives were fat cats. 0.99

00:34:30.260 Right. 0.75

00:34:30.700 So what no one has said about this is that Mehdi Hassan admitted that being a Nazi is not the same as being far-right, where he said you're a little more than a far-right Republican.

00:34:44.800 So that's the win on this, at least.

00:34:48.000 That's pretty thin rule.

00:34:50.000 Absolute political masterclass.

00:34:51.480 Absolute political.

00:34:52.100 Getting that gem out of Mehdi. 0.96

00:34:54.200 Honestly, that framing though, framing it as a political masterclass is absolutely nonsense.

00:34:58.540 Because if you showed that to any kind of, I mean, sure, they're in America, but in Britain, if you were to show that to any normal person, they would take the side of Mehdi Hassan. 0.95

00:35:05.840 Because they'd think the other guy looked like him.

00:35:07.020 That's the issue.

00:35:08.900 That's the issue.

00:35:09.560 And that's what I want to say is that there is a tendency for people to say, I'm going to express myself in ways that are the exact way that the left is presenting me.

00:35:23.100 Because I want to show them that I don't care.

00:35:25.760 Well, it's okay.

00:35:28.240 To some people, you can't care, but you don't care what they think of you.

00:35:32.540 But when you are debating, it's not about your interlocutor or your opponent.

00:35:38.880 It's about the audience.

00:35:40.220 And language occurs within a context.

00:35:42.480 It's a social context because we're communal beings.

00:35:45.660 And within that context, there are notions that are linked with good or bad.

00:35:51.460 And what propagandists are trying to do, they're trying to link their side with a good and their side with a bad. 0.57

00:35:57.860 So they want to make it sort of hip to some people.

00:36:03.500 They want to marginalize, to self-identify with what the culture thinks is the synonym for evil.

00:36:12.140 Yes.

00:36:12.360 So when they do this and they recreate the sort of mentality of the prison courtyard convict who exposes the neck, saying, hey, I'm not afraid of you.

00:36:25.220 You're not a threat to me.

00:36:26.300 That's not the proper context.

00:36:28.300 That's not the way you're doing a debate.

00:36:30.320 What it ultimately ends up being is saying this guy goes out and shows to millions of people who have watched this is I am exactly what the left is constantly bombarding us that non-leftists, non-Maoists are.

00:36:47.680 And Mehdi Hassan comes off as the sensible one here.

00:36:50.540 Yeah. And do you know what else? The chap in the blue, Pinesap, is that his name?

00:36:54.580 Yes.

00:36:55.540 He, the impression I got when I watched that was that he was arguing with a kind of an invented character in his head.

00:37:03.120 He wasn't arguing with Mehdi Hassan in front of him.

00:37:05.360 He was, it was arguing with what he thought the left were, which is why he jumped immediately to, I don't care if you call me a Nazi.

00:37:11.940 Mehdi Hassan hadn't actually called him a Nazi.

00:37:13.820 He was just, it was just immediately kind of on it like that. 1.00

00:37:15.820 And it just made him look, it just made him look an idiot. 0.99

00:37:18.700 And it was, there were also several contradictions. 1.00

00:37:22.180 Like for instance, he is going to be anti-democracy.

00:37:24.040 I'll show you this.

00:37:24.700 But then he said these parties were autocrats and they enacted the people's will.

00:37:30.100 Yeah.

00:37:30.880 Anyway, there are several.

00:37:32.020 He also says, I want a benevolent dictatorship that will not persecute me, but will persecute my rivals.

00:37:40.100 So not benevolent.

00:37:41.320 Yeah, but also that's the, he actually, Mehdi Hassan actually made a good question here.

00:37:46.960 So how do you know you're not going to be smoked?

00:37:50.280 Right.

00:37:50.760 And said, I'm not going to be smoked because I'm going to be on that side.

00:37:53.640 Yeah.

00:37:53.860 Well, yeah, lots of people, lots of followers of Stalin believe that.

00:37:57.580 Yeah.

00:37:57.820 Yeah.

00:37:58.160 And then he brings up the Carl Schmitt friend enemy distinction.

00:38:02.080 And it's like, and again, it's like he's arguing on the internet or something like that.

00:38:06.860 And again, there's a way, there is a way, by the way, to bring that up.

00:38:10.040 And, you know, Mehdi Hassan says, well, what, the Nazi theorist?

00:38:12.260 You'd be like, well, yeah, but he's also on every university.

00:38:14.660 Yeah.

00:38:15.000 That's what I wanted to say.

00:38:17.020 That's what I wanted to say also, because that was a point that he didn't raise up, is that when we're talking about political philosophers, most of them are very abstract.

00:38:25.120 Yeah.

00:38:25.240 And that's why they become very, very big names, because you have all sorts of scholars, a number of scholars interpreting what they said.

00:38:32.940 Yeah.

00:38:33.320 And, you know, you have, you know, left, right Hegelians with every thinker.

00:38:38.940 But what happens here is that, no, no, what I want to say is that everyone reads Carl Schmitt.

00:38:45.240 Yeah.

00:38:45.840 Right.

00:38:46.120 He was a Nazi theoretician at some point.

00:38:48.340 I think he sort of was sidetracked or he...

00:38:52.040 Well, he was, I don't, he never, I think he was trialed at Nuremberg, but he wasn't found guilty of anything as far as I read.

00:38:57.340 Whatever.

00:38:57.600 But anyway, both left and right read Carl Schmitt.

00:39:01.380 Yeah.

00:39:01.580 Right?

00:39:02.060 They read him.

00:39:03.020 That's not the issue.

00:39:04.320 And the friend-enemy distinction is, you know, that's my personal view.

00:39:08.500 I think it's abstractly formed.

00:39:10.660 To a degree, everyone believes in it because every system has a notion of who is going to be marginalized and who is going to be punished.

00:39:20.440 Yeah.

00:39:20.640 So every system has friends and enemies.

00:39:23.120 The point is, how do you define an enemy?

00:39:26.920 Who is an enemy?

00:39:28.580 What do you do about an enemy?

00:39:30.300 How do you go about living in a society?

00:39:32.920 What do you do about potential friends?

00:39:34.800 Yeah.

00:39:35.080 These are several questions that they should be asked.

00:39:40.340 And once again, this format is not conducive to that kind of conversation.

00:39:43.520 Yeah, exactly.

00:39:44.100 That's what I said in the beginning.

00:39:45.200 When you want to make a good conversation that is challenging paradigms, you need time.

00:39:52.280 And you need time to contextualize what you're saying rather than just saying, well, I'm too hot for contextualizing.

00:40:00.120 So any bad interpretation you want to throw my way, I'm going to say that I'm it because it's going to make clicks.

00:40:07.200 But it's just such a textbook example of how not to do it was, you know, he mentioned Carl Schmitt by name.

00:40:13.780 That gave Mediherzana a really easy in to say, oh, what, the Nazi?

00:40:16.800 You're siding with a Nazi? 0.50

00:40:17.940 And then he said, yeah.

00:40:19.340 It's like, yeah, I am.

00:40:20.280 Real Nazism hasn't been tried yet. 0.90

00:40:22.260 Yeah, that would be a good out of context clip.

00:40:25.920 No, but it's just textbook.

00:40:27.880 Like, because again, as I said, I, if I was in this situation, wouldn't have mentioned Schmitt by name at all.

00:40:32.900 Because it's just such an easy in.

00:40:33.840 You just say, well, all system has friends and enemies.

00:40:36.460 And I believe I'd be on the side of the friends because I'm a patriotic American.

00:40:39.000 And the dictator I'm talking about would be a patriotic American.

00:40:41.680 So we'd be ideologically aligned.

00:40:43.080 So I don't think that I would be oppressed.

00:40:44.980 I may be wrong because that's the volatility of a dictatorial system.

00:40:48.700 And he just closed the whole thing down.

00:40:50.180 But instead he's like, well, I am a Nazi.

00:40:51.680 No, I'm not going to say that actually because that would get clipped out of context.

00:40:54.420 Anyway, you see what I'm saying though?

00:40:55.760 But also, politicians lie.

00:40:58.400 So, yeah, it will be dangerous.

00:41:02.420 Yeah.

00:41:02.880 Right.

00:41:03.160 So I'll not show the second clip because I'm conscious a bit of time.

00:41:07.080 So we have here, Pinesap was fired from his job.

00:41:11.020 I searched here and I found that this was a job in tech, the tech industry.

00:41:18.460 Let me, yeah, I'll tell you what job was Pinesap fired from.

00:41:25.960 It's called, I think, VEUP Limited.

00:41:30.180 Yeah.

00:41:30.400 So it's a tech company.

00:41:32.300 Right.

00:41:32.520 So there was a sort of funding event.

00:41:37.160 He created the Give, Send, Go to find a new job and people have been funding him.

00:41:43.420 I think he has raised more than $20,000 at the point.

00:41:48.820 Yeah.

00:41:49.020 And he says here, far from our political beliefs.

00:41:52.680 And he has a donating page, Give and Go in here.

00:41:55.980 We have him on Rift TV.

00:41:58.580 He shares his experience on Jubilee.

00:42:00.780 We have the people there who are trying to, they're trying to give him a very charitable

00:42:05.060 interpretation.

00:42:05.760 And they also try to somehow portray this as being a bit more traditionally right-wing,

00:42:11.840 which I think is not the case.

00:42:13.840 I think we can say it's not.

00:42:15.100 No, definitely not.

00:42:16.220 Right.

00:42:16.500 Okay.

00:42:16.860 So there have been several interpretations as to what he meant.

00:42:23.500 Someone says here, Pinesap's method, whether you like it or not, is a different question,

00:42:27.420 was to disarm the slur.

00:42:28.700 He found it to be absurd and ludicrous that such a term was being thrown at Franco and

00:42:33.080 him.

00:42:33.760 So he simply said yes and laughed in his face.

00:42:35.900 Was he professing the doctrines of fascism as a spouse by the pre-war authors in Germany

00:42:40.700 and Italy? 1.00

00:42:41.460 No, that is stupid. 1.00

00:42:42.980 And says, these are my thoughts exactly. 1.00

00:42:44.820 I care about being Catholic, not any particular ideology.

00:42:48.000 And when Mehdi Hassan used the term as a slur, I wanted to disarm the way it has been used

00:42:52.920 to harm so many of us who just want a better world with God.

00:42:56.260 Our faith will not be slandered.

00:42:58.320 Well, look, I can speak.

00:42:59.760 I am a Catholic and I'm also, you know, I am engaged in the political arena and I debate

00:43:05.340 people on, you know, shows not dissimilar to the one we're looking at here.

00:43:09.600 And that's just such a, this is just not the way to go about it. 0.98

00:43:12.740 It just makes you look like a fool and it makes it really easy for people to, you know, 0.98

00:43:16.060 we're on the radical edge of politics and that comes with a certain degree of danger 0.98

00:43:20.420 because it does, if you get it wrong, it makes it really easy for people to paint you 0.91

00:43:24.500 like a lunatic. 0.91

00:43:25.360 And therefore responsibility.

00:43:26.380 And so really the strategy that we should be deploying and guys like, you know, this

00:43:31.260 one who is, you know, I'll believe in his word that he's a Catholic and he's somebody

00:43:35.420 who cares about the future of America.

00:43:37.280 The response is to come across as the reasonable one in the room, not to come across as some

00:43:40.960 weird fringe kind of frenzied lunatic who says like, yes, I am that.

00:43:45.360 Yes, I am this.

00:43:46.580 It's to be, it's to appear more reasonable and more representative of the general public

00:43:50.540 than your enemy, which he probably to a certain extent, maybe not him, but there are

00:43:53.940 those in that, in that kind of sphere who are, because there are Catholics who are more

00:43:57.620 sensible than Mehdi Hassan.

00:43:59.020 Yeah.

00:43:59.200 Well, quite, but, but, well, I think Mehdi Hassan is a Muslim, is he not?

00:44:02.540 But, but anyway, like, um, you know, Mehdi Hassan is a subversive Islamo leftist who does 0.86

00:44:08.800 not represent the opinions of the general public in America.

00:44:11.140 Don't give him what he wants.

00:44:12.140 Don't give him what he wants. 0.88

00:44:12.820 You know, make him look like the radical, the lunatic, the frenzy, you know, exactly.

00:44:16.560 So that's why I'm worried about a tendency of people, particularly online, and I know

00:44:21.380 I'll get lots of hate for saying this, but it doesn't matter.

00:44:25.140 They are trying to portray themselves as the caricature of the left portrays any non-leftist

00:44:31.920 as being.

00:44:32.360 And this actually helps the left because it helps the left propagate the same narrative

00:44:38.220 according to which it is the left that is the last bastion of freedom against these people.

00:44:45.780 And there are, there are incentives for people personally to do it, but, and they, we have

00:44:53.660 lots of people who have made huge audiences just because they went out and they said something

00:44:58.460 that benefited them personally, but actually has harmed people who are worried about the

00:45:06.040 leftist hegemony.

00:45:07.820 Yes. 1.00

00:45:08.240 Because it makes everybody else look like a fool. 1.00

00:45:09.660 Exactly. 0.98

00:45:10.000 Because what we, what we're looking at is essentially, if we, we're talking about a population, which

00:45:14.600 we have sort of 10% that is leftist, 10% that is right wing and 80% that is a bit, you

00:45:21.080 know, to be led a bit more, let's say, I wouldn't say necessarily to be led, but in some cases,

00:45:25.960 yes, for all sorts of reasons, some of them just don't have time, but they don't, they

00:45:31.840 don't have time to give into constant understanding of discourse and how each person frames what

00:45:39.180 happens.

00:45:39.600 Yeah.

00:45:40.180 Right.

00:45:40.540 So they're a bit more volatile in there and a bit more, how should I say it?

00:45:47.160 Fickle?

00:45:47.800 Not fickle.

00:45:48.660 I would say they're a bit more, it's easier to be, it's easier for them to be manipulated

00:45:53.940 by narrative, by narratives.

00:45:55.920 That's why what the left is also trying to do, I think, and I think that this is conscious.

00:46:00.460 It tries to say that to a very large extent, the majority of the culture is, the culture

00:46:06.080 is split.

00:46:06.720 The majority is pro us, but also you have another important segment of the population, particularly

00:46:14.700 straight white men, who are this, that narrative, and they need to be punished for that in perpetuity. 0.82

00:46:23.700 Yeah. 0.84

00:46:23.840 So I think if we want to maintain a sort of sanity and rationality in discourse, it's the, the,

00:46:31.360 the response is not to say, well, we're going to completely destroy the, the word, any word

00:46:36.620 and the meaning of any word and anything the left says you are, we're going to say, we are that,

00:46:43.040 but we're, we are going to be, we're going to say, no, I'm not going to allow the left to distort

00:46:48.320 my view of the world.

00:46:50.840 And I'm not going to blindly rush into saying just to seem cool.

00:46:56.320 Yeah.

00:46:56.560 What the left says I am.

00:46:58.120 Yeah.

00:46:58.260 And this is key, I think, because I think there's, there's two ways of buying into the enemy's

00:47:02.980 dialectic, which I think are wrong.

00:47:04.080 One is what that guy did where he just says, yes, I am.

00:47:06.680 A scattershot of the edgiest thing.

00:47:08.620 Exactly.

00:47:09.180 I think how you just put it to look cool is exactly right.

00:47:12.040 That's exactly, they're trying to look edgy and funny or whatever.

00:47:15.420 And, but the other way that it's wrong is to say, oh no, I'm not.

00:47:17.800 I promise I'm not.

00:47:18.460 And here's why.

00:47:19.100 Because then again, you're buying into their dialectic and they've already won.

00:47:21.520 The right way to approach these issues.

00:47:23.080 And I, you know, I say this as somebody who has been called these kinds of words on television

00:47:27.520 and on radio and that sort of thing is to just say, well, look, people like you, you call

00:47:32.320 everything that word you call.

00:47:33.940 Like milk, far right.

00:47:35.400 And you call air conditioning sexist and you call the countryside racist and all that sort

00:47:39.160 of thing.

00:47:39.660 So coming from you, those words, they just don't mean anything to me.

00:47:42.020 They did mean something at one point, but people like you have completely stripped them of their

00:47:45.580 meaning, which is actually a bad thing in and of itself.

00:47:47.660 And what I'm seeking to do as a young man is just speak about the concerns I have about

00:47:51.380 this country, about the fact that people my age can't afford housing and don't want to

00:47:55.360 start families for that reason.

00:47:56.360 About the fact that women and girls are increasingly unsafe on our streets. 1.00

00:47:59.620 You know, these are not unreasonable issues.

00:48:01.020 This is not fringe weirdo politics.

00:48:02.940 This is just day to day life for normal people.

00:48:05.300 And the fact that you are so intent on shutting that down by calling me words that have lost

00:48:09.280 their meaning because of overuse tells me a lot about you, actually.

00:48:12.620 And it tells me the interest that you're serving, which is essentially the interest of the power

00:48:16.560 structure that currently governs us.

00:48:18.120 Because if you listen to the government itself, to the universities, to the corporations, to

00:48:21.800 the media, they all use those words as well for the same purpose.

00:48:24.820 They always use them to shut down reasonable debate about issues that actually affect people.

00:48:29.260 And that is how you do it.

00:48:30.760 You know, I think that's how you do it.

00:48:33.000 And that's the sensible thing.

00:48:34.860 And I don't know to what extent some other people can do it.

00:48:39.380 And the issue is that you have a microphone.

00:48:42.200 They have a microphone.

00:48:43.620 You can do it.

00:48:44.960 Maybe they think they can.

00:48:46.560 So maybe they're not going to be as sensible.

00:48:49.240 Yeah.

00:48:49.440 Yeah.

00:48:49.940 But again, it's about presenting yourself as being the reasonable one in the room and 0.80

00:48:53.060 them as the crazed lunatic. 0.99

00:48:55.240 And it's actually not that hard to do because they are crazed lunatics. 1.00

00:48:57.460 Exactly. 0.93

00:48:58.260 And I'm going to end with Carl's post that I agree with.

00:49:02.160 He says, crazy how Mehdi Hassan is just such a flagrant liar when he knows the other guy

00:49:09.540 can prove him wrong because the other guy said that he hasn't been in London.

00:49:13.320 He says, claiming London is a very British city, that the British aren't losing their

00:49:18.340 culture or that the English aren't a minority in London, are just not true statements.

00:49:24.980 And it says, despicable.

00:49:26.220 So that's the point.

00:49:27.540 When you have people like that, you don't rush to make them appear as the defender of

00:49:36.260 Western civilization.

00:49:38.420 Yeah.

00:49:38.780 That's it.

00:49:40.160 Good stuff.

00:49:42.360 Right.

00:49:42.820 All right.

00:49:43.220 Yes.

00:49:43.720 Do you want both of those?

00:49:45.000 I will.

00:49:45.460 Thank you very much.

00:49:46.280 Very good.

00:49:46.820 Sorry.

00:49:47.220 Talk amongst yourselves.

00:49:48.540 That's all right.

00:49:49.540 How do I get to that?

00:49:50.440 Do you want to go through your rumble rants still?

00:49:52.380 Yes.

00:49:53.380 Yeah.

00:49:54.100 Scott Sciguy.

00:49:55.320 You can only talk about this debate if you have a parrot on your shoulder.

00:49:59.800 I have to be a parrot.

00:50:01.480 You did this.

00:50:02.400 No, there was a video of Carl.

00:50:04.820 That was Carl's thing.

00:50:05.540 He had a parrot just flew on his shoulder.

00:50:07.720 Okay.

00:50:07.980 Yeah.

00:50:08.200 Yeah.

00:50:09.080 We're still a bit overwhelmed by this news.

00:50:12.840 Right.

00:50:13.380 So, a cruel says, Medi Hassan doesn't believe anything.

00:50:17.580 He merely deploys leftist talking points as if there are tools in a toolbox and he's

00:50:23.260 among the best at it.

00:50:24.420 Well, that's what debate actually is.

00:50:25.660 He is.

00:50:26.240 That's why you go out and expose it.

00:50:28.860 Yeah.

00:50:29.140 And you have your own tools.

00:50:30.240 You have to have your own tools as well.

00:50:31.680 Okay.

00:50:31.960 And OPHUK says, Medi Hassan called non-Muslims animal a couple years ago.

00:50:39.000 Yeah.

00:50:39.080 Isn't he also one of those who constantly talk about Islamophobia and everything?

00:50:43.020 Yeah.

00:50:43.180 Never short Islamophobia. 0.84

00:50:44.540 Yeah.

00:50:46.220 Right then.

00:50:47.360 So, many viewers will remember the beginning of Kemi Badenok.

00:50:51.700 So, this was 2020.

00:50:52.920 We were all locked up in our homes.

00:50:54.760 BLM were on the march. 1.00

00:50:56.020 And WOKE was reaching its peak.

00:50:58.080 And then out of nowhere came the based Kemi Badenok.

00:51:00.700 What we are against is the teaching of contested political ideas as if they are accepted facts.

00:51:07.820 We don't do this with communism.

00:51:09.520 We don't do this with socialism.

00:51:10.700 We don't do it with capitalism.

00:51:12.060 And I want to speak about a dangerous trend in race relations that has come far too close

00:51:17.740 to home to my life.

00:51:19.260 And it is the promotion of critical race theory, an ideology that sees my blackness as victimhood

00:51:24.400 and their whiteness as oppression.

00:51:26.020 I want to be absolutely clear.

00:51:27.920 This government stands unequivocally against critical race theory.

00:51:31.140 We all remember this, right?

00:51:33.660 I remember I was at university at the time.

00:51:35.820 I was sort of...

00:51:36.900 At this time, I was probably still calling myself a classical liberal or something like

00:51:40.800 that.

00:51:41.620 And...

00:51:41.760 Sorry, Stelius.

00:51:42.480 And, you know, I remember seeing this.

00:51:45.660 I shall convert you again.

00:51:47.000 Indeed.

00:51:47.260 Well, yeah, after we win, then I will go back to being a classical liberal.

00:51:52.300 But I remember seeing this and thinking, like, wow, this lady is good. 0.99

00:51:55.600 She's solid.

00:51:56.180 You know, it's impressive rhetoric.

00:51:57.760 And I remember for a while thinking that she was pretty impressive, as did a lot of other

00:52:01.960 people.

00:52:02.460 I mean, you know, a lot of people in our circles were saying the same thing.

00:52:04.940 Like, I don't want people to pretend that, oh, Kevin Bader was always awful.

00:52:07.560 No, a lot of people were behind her for a long time.

00:52:09.640 It just felt like you were being suffocated slightly less.

00:52:12.540 Yeah.

00:52:13.020 To see one voice in Parliament that was against the entire...

00:52:16.540 Like, just because they went full woke and you couldn't go anywhere without it.

00:52:20.480 So to see one voice made it look more impressive than it actually...

00:52:24.280 And never goes full woke, man.

00:52:25.740 Well, no.

00:52:26.500 But there was real promise.

00:52:27.540 There was real promise at this time.

00:52:28.900 Because, again, you have to remember the context.

00:52:30.360 Everyone was losing their minds during lockdown and all the rest of it.

00:52:33.260 And it was like culture wars were absolutely out there.

00:52:35.100 Yeah.

00:52:35.460 Salient.

00:52:36.840 But since then, I think it would be fair to say that things have gone downhill.

00:52:42.100 A little bit.

00:52:43.220 I do want to just give credit.

00:52:44.460 This article that released today called Kemi Bednock isn't working in the New Statesman,

00:52:49.200 of all places, by Will Lloyd.

00:52:50.680 It's very, very good.

00:52:51.920 I've used it for a part of this segment.

00:52:54.120 So I'd encourage everyone to go and read it because it is excellent.

00:52:57.240 But, you know, let's just go through the history, the recent history of Kemi Bednock.

00:53:00.680 So she survived the collapse of the Johnson government, of course.

00:53:03.360 Ran as leader after that.

00:53:05.180 Didn't win, but secured herself a place on the cabinets. 0.91

00:53:08.620 Obviously, the Conservatives were in government at the time, of both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak.

00:53:12.580 I seem to recall in that time when she didn't win as well, that she did have Gove's backing.

00:53:17.840 That's right.

00:53:18.300 In that particular...

00:53:19.240 That's right.

00:53:19.620 And we will get onto that because that's an important piece of this puzzle.

00:53:21.940 And then, of course, you know, fast forward to last year, Sunak's government faces,

00:53:26.580 well, receives the most damning, you know, largest defeat that the party has ever seen in its 200 years of history.

00:53:34.460 Sunak resigns and the membership, or rather the leadership race, begins.

00:53:39.160 And the membership chews Kemi Bednock as their new leader over Robert Jenrick, among others.

00:53:44.180 And so as leader, what do we think?

00:53:46.920 Impressed?

00:53:48.480 Not particularly.

00:53:49.580 I mean, honestly, until this segment, I'd forgot the Tory party existed, to be honest with you.

00:53:54.760 Basically, I think that the Tories are destroying themselves.

00:54:00.140 Well, that's certainly how it looks under her.

00:54:01.660 I just don't see how that would work.

00:54:05.540 And I don't see why the Tories would care that much to portray themselves as more left-wing than the left-wing.

00:54:11.500 We will get to that, because that is another important part of this.

00:54:15.040 She also doesn't like sandwich. 0.99

00:54:16.920 Sorry, I'll stop interrupting.

00:54:18.260 Well, I mean, there's so many funny anecdotes about her sort of personal habits, which we will get to.

00:54:22.260 But for a brief time after her ascension to the throne, the Tories did start, they had a mild uptick in their polling.

00:54:28.740 And many in the party were saying that, you know, we're back, we've changed, you know, we're not the Conservative Party of before.

00:54:34.420 But obviously, most people saw through that, you know, in part due to the fact that it was quite publicly the case that Michael Gove, one of the architects of the, you know, the 14 years, was essentially backing her and was running her.

00:54:48.220 And it was at this point that she decided to accuse reform of faking their membership numbers.

00:54:54.040 You remember this?

00:54:54.640 I do remember that.

00:54:55.240 They had this ticker online and she, citing her expertise as a software engineer, said that they were essentially lying.

00:55:02.700 And it was very quickly shown to be, you know, they weren't lying.

00:55:06.520 The number was accurate. 0.95

00:55:07.660 That's how we know when it's going down these days.

00:55:09.860 Indeed, yes.

00:55:12.740 But it was, well, this reports that the atmosphere in CCHQ on that day was intense embarrassment, which you can understand.

00:55:20.920 And so despite the dire performance of the Labour government, the Conservatives are continuing to deteriorate and decline.

00:55:26.980 They're just not, you know, reform is just clearing up, basically.

00:55:29.540 Reform is exploding in support and continues to poll in the, you know, the 30 plus kind of area.

00:55:35.520 And yet rather than going on the offensive and building a strong policy base and a new kind of family of faces for the party,

00:55:44.280 Pateknock's chosen this like kind of softly, softly approach where she's commissioned Alex Burghardt,

00:55:49.880 who is the chairman of the Policy Oversight Committee, to go on this kind of two year long academic kind of introspective exercise

00:55:57.240 to restore the intellectual credibility of the party and is doing no actual policy work in the kind of here and now.

00:56:03.220 And what that means is reform, who are also not doing any policy work, are able to just present them as being out of touch,

00:56:10.000 flatlining, in a tailspin, going nowhere.

00:56:12.520 And they'd be right.

00:56:13.920 Reform aren't wrong on this one.

00:56:15.300 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:16.380 And a source from inside the party says, 0.98

00:56:18.700 thinking we had to go through this stupid process has left us like a rabbit in the headlights, which is not a great look. 0.99

00:56:24.860 And meanwhile, the party is hemorrhaging funds. 1.00

00:56:27.080 CCHQ is a graveyard, I'm told.

00:56:28.680 I mean, there are some sound people in there who I know, but I'm told that it's just like a cancer ward at the moment.

00:56:34.840 I mean, you know, and you can imagine that.

00:56:36.740 And most of their donations are going to paying off debts from the election last year.

00:56:40.880 So it's not, you know, it's not a happy place to be.

00:56:43.840 And there's a part of this article that I do just want to read out the batum because I just found it so amusing.

00:56:47.860 So according to those who have watched her operate up close,

00:56:50.860 she has developed a habit of vanishing into her AirPods and iPad.

00:56:54.800 Senior Tories complain that she is difficult to reach before 11 a.m.

00:56:57.520 She rarely leaves London to campaign in the regions.

00:57:00.080 Asked on Westminster stages what her economic plan is,

00:57:02.620 she talks instead about the social issues that fuelled her rise,

00:57:05.800 from gender clinics and trans people to a new concern, abortion.

00:57:09.560 Evenings are spent doom scrolling and making calls to editors and producers

00:57:13.020 about trying to spike negative stories about her.

00:57:15.480 Her husband, Hamish, absorbs the worst of the tweets, the ones that she can't face.

00:57:19.560 She is fragile and frightened.

00:57:21.420 At PMQs, Badenock's hands shake as she reads her lines from a piece of paper.

00:57:25.440 Her backbenchers notice.

00:57:26.360 On television, when she rouses herself to appear in the studios,

00:57:30.000 Badenock blinks more than she used to.

00:57:31.680 Her donors notice this is not someone who is enjoying the job.

00:57:34.760 And I think anybody who has watched Kim Badenock in recent times

00:57:37.040 will have recognised these same patterns.

00:57:39.600 Like, she clearly is not...

00:57:40.760 She doesn't enjoy being interviewed.

00:57:42.640 She doesn't enjoy speaking in the House.

00:57:44.780 You know, this is somebody who is completely out of her depth, quite honestly.

00:57:47.980 And it's interesting and...

00:57:48.920 Sorry, look, we've gone.

00:57:49.600 I was just going to say, it's also a recurring thing that you see

00:57:52.500 through many Prime Ministers now, that people who are in every way mediocrities,

00:57:59.100 thinking that they should be the one to get there.

00:58:01.680 Whether it's Keir Starmer, who's just won by proxy in this recent election,

00:58:07.140 or Badenock herself, or Theresa May.

00:58:10.140 It's like, you know what I mean?

00:58:10.920 It's like, look, you don't inspire strength.

00:58:14.400 And yet, you want the title.

00:58:18.440 It's defined.

00:58:19.080 You don't have the skills.

00:58:20.400 Our system is defined by mediocrity.

00:58:22.540 And this is what Dominic Cummings speaks about so often,

00:58:24.680 about how elite talent nowadays doesn't go into public service.

00:58:28.040 It goes into, basically, finance.

00:58:30.120 And that's why you're left with the kind of the Oxbridge dregs 1.00

00:58:33.260 entering the House of Commons, and indeed advising those in there.

00:58:36.880 Or podcasts.

00:58:38.800 Yes, indeed.

00:58:40.320 So that brings us to the present time,

00:58:42.940 where yesterday, they had not ordered a Tory party reshuffle.

00:58:46.060 Now, there were a number of new appointments,

00:58:48.060 but the most noteworthy two, in my opinion,

00:58:50.660 were James Cleverley,

00:58:52.020 Shadow Secretary for Housing Communities and Local Government.

00:58:56.920 There we go.

00:58:57.740 And Neil O'Brien, as Shadow Minister for Policy, Renewal and Development.

00:59:00.840 So I'll take those one by one.

00:59:01.840 So Neil O'Brien is somebody who,

00:59:03.560 I don't know him that well,

00:59:04.400 but I've spoken to him on a number of occasions.

00:59:06.340 I follow his work quite closely.

00:59:07.860 He's very, very good on data

00:59:09.820 when it comes to immigration and various other issues.

00:59:12.440 And he seems like a very sound guy.

00:59:15.060 I mean, again, I don't know him that well.

00:59:16.360 I understand that he backed COVID lockdowns quite heavily

00:59:19.220 and various other things during that time.

00:59:20.840 So, you know, make of that what you will.

00:59:23.040 But he is part of this kind of,

00:59:24.320 this faction that is emerging,

00:59:25.980 essentially around Robert Jenrick alongside others.

00:59:28.880 So it's interesting that he's been brought

00:59:30.380 into the Shadow Cabinet.

00:59:32.000 But James Cleverley, my goodness,

00:59:33.740 he is just the embodiment

00:59:34.980 of an anachronistic form of politics,

00:59:37.440 like Baden-Ock herself, actually,

00:59:39.140 who is just totally unsuited

00:59:40.800 to the time in which we find ourselves

00:59:42.820 still committed to kind of

00:59:44.560 Cameronite, one-nation liberalism,

00:59:46.860 still defending the Boris wave

00:59:48.780 and, you know, the various other things,

00:59:51.080 various other betrayals that took place

00:59:52.560 during the 14 years.

00:59:53.180 And the recent Afghanistan stuff as well.

00:59:55.620 Well, I have to say, actually,

00:59:57.020 just to come back on this,

00:59:58.320 now that I know Stuart Andrew

00:59:59.880 is going to be Secretary of State

01:00:02.540 for health and social care,

01:00:03.760 I might just have to betray

01:00:04.760 the entire cause.

01:00:05.880 Yeah.

01:00:06.080 I don't know who he is.

01:00:07.200 But, I don't know,

01:00:08.880 he just inspires confidence.

01:00:10.540 Yeah, quite.

01:00:11.220 And, I mean, there are some other

01:00:12.660 appointments that are not in the Commons,

01:00:16.680 but are actually at CCHQ

01:00:18.120 and in the Office of Leader

01:00:19.780 of the Opposition.

01:00:21.240 Most importantly, Henry Newman,

01:00:23.300 who is now

01:00:23.880 Kemi Baden-Ock's Chief of Staff,

01:00:25.200 which means he is running

01:00:26.380 the, you know, Kemi Baden-Ock's office.

01:00:28.660 I mean, you know,

01:00:29.200 the Chief of Staff position

01:00:30.060 is the most important

01:00:31.600 for any politician.

01:00:33.720 And this is a guy,

01:00:35.100 I don't know if we have the picture,

01:00:36.240 I think we do, there we go.

01:00:37.760 That's him.

01:00:39.300 That is Henry Newman,

01:00:40.480 the new guy running

01:00:41.920 the Conservative Party.

01:00:43.120 That inspires confidence,

01:00:44.240 doesn't it?

01:00:45.740 Anyway, I could go on,

01:00:47.120 but I am going to let

01:00:47.840 Dominic Cummings take over

01:00:49.200 from here,

01:00:49.600 because this is just so glorious.

01:00:50.760 Great Appointments by Kemi, 0.91

01:00:52.180 I hate my Nigerian tribal rival.

01:00:55.260 Cleverly, the last great defender

01:00:56.660 of the Boris Carrie wave.

01:00:58.240 Proud defender of giving

01:00:59.120 soldiers' houses to Afghans.

01:01:01.040 One of the architects

01:01:01.880 of the disgraceful giveaway

01:01:03.040 of Chagos,

01:01:03.840 opponent of house building,

01:01:05.040 loved, loved, loved

01:01:05.720 by officials because

01:01:06.640 he is pure NPC,

01:01:08.240 will read out documents

01:01:09.100 like the Chagos surrender

01:01:10.120 with a straight face,

01:01:11.180 no questions ever asked,

01:01:12.420 just say it's the legal

01:01:13.360 advice minister,

01:01:14.100 and you can get him

01:01:15.100 to say anything.

01:01:16.180 Will fit in well

01:01:16.840 in KB's regime

01:01:17.880 for its last few months.

01:01:19.260 Also good to see Newman,

01:01:20.620 now running KB's office,

01:01:21.880 also super logical.

01:01:23.180 One of those who worked

01:01:23.940 with Carrie,

01:01:24.520 that's Carrie Johnson, 1.00

01:01:25.580 to support the mental

01:01:26.540 trans rights Stonewall campaign,

01:01:28.100 strengthen its grip

01:01:28.820 on the cabinet office.

01:01:30.100 Co-campaigner with Starmer

01:01:31.140 for Camden Pride.

01:01:32.420 Hope to see Wally,

01:01:33.180 an advisor on national security,

01:01:34.960 Carrie, an advisor

01:01:35.580 on propriety and ethics,

01:01:36.700 and one of the gay, 1.00

01:01:37.560 sex addict drug users 1.00

01:01:38.720 in charge of family policy

01:01:40.060 in this reshuffle.

01:01:41.440 Absolutely surgical.

01:01:42.860 Same old Tory party, then.

01:01:44.740 Well, indeed.

01:01:45.420 And so that's the current condition

01:01:47.420 of the Tory party.

01:01:49.020 And I've got to say,

01:01:49.540 in my own experience,

01:01:50.700 I have actually met

01:01:51.880 some of Badenock's advisors,

01:01:53.340 and they are just

01:01:54.080 the most unimpressive people

01:01:55.460 that you can imagine.

01:01:56.140 They are just totally wedded

01:01:57.400 to that kind of

01:01:58.220 Westminster bubble lifestyle,

01:01:59.700 totally out of touch

01:02:00.500 with what the general public

01:02:01.520 are actually thinking

01:02:02.540 and feeling about it.

01:02:03.560 So no real understanding

01:02:04.280 of why they've been lost?

01:02:05.040 No, it's a total bubble.

01:02:07.120 And they really do think

01:02:08.440 that the right response

01:02:09.480 is to take this kind of

01:02:10.820 slow, introspective approach

01:02:12.620 where, in a lot of cases,

01:02:14.080 they actually double down

01:02:14.940 on a lot of these issues,

01:02:16.060 whether that's, you know,

01:02:16.660 immigration or...

01:02:17.800 I mean, you saw Priti Patel,

01:02:18.720 for example.

01:02:19.260 Check the privilege.

01:02:20.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:20.780 All of it.

01:02:21.280 Priti Patel, for example,

01:02:22.280 relatively recently,

01:02:23.720 defending the Boris wave

01:02:24.680 and saying that we brought in

01:02:25.660 engineers and astronauts

01:02:27.360 and all that nonsense.

01:02:29.320 But these are the people

01:02:29.860 we're dealing with.

01:02:30.560 These are the people

01:02:31.000 in the highest ranks

01:02:31.560 of the Tory party right now.

01:02:33.120 And I seriously think,

01:02:34.000 you know,

01:02:34.160 Kemi Badenock is a relic

01:02:35.480 of a bygone era.

01:02:36.360 Her politics hasn't changed

01:02:37.700 meaningfully since 2020.

01:02:39.560 She's still talking about woke.

01:02:41.020 She's still talking about 0.97

01:02:42.080 trans madness 1.00

01:02:43.220 and all the rest of it.

01:02:43.820 And sure,

01:02:44.480 some of that stuff

01:02:45.100 is still salient,

01:02:45.840 but actually the problems

01:02:46.460 we're facing as a country

01:02:47.380 are so much deeper

01:02:48.700 and so much more fundamental

01:02:49.900 than that kind of

01:02:50.720 culture war stuff now.

01:02:51.580 Oh yeah, God.

01:02:52.100 We're talking about

01:02:53.320 becoming a minority 0.99

01:02:54.140 in our own home.

01:02:54.680 The threat is existential.

01:02:55.820 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:56.120 We're talking with

01:02:56.420 existential issues here.

01:02:58.040 Birth rates, demographics,

01:02:59.760 housing, energy,

01:03:01.340 the economy,

01:03:02.420 the entire economy.

01:03:03.440 These are the most

01:03:04.480 fundamental issues

01:03:05.180 that any nation

01:03:05.820 would ever have to face.

01:03:07.200 And Badenock's

01:03:07.820 doom scrolling on her iPad

01:03:09.040 and talking about trans,

01:03:10.280 you know, 0.98

01:03:10.580 the loony woke left 0.96

01:03:11.240 have gone mad.

01:03:11.980 Like that's really

01:03:12.580 where we're at.

01:03:13.160 It's so frustrating.

01:03:16.180 And so, yeah,

01:03:17.880 I mean that's basically

01:03:18.680 the condition of the Tory party.

01:03:19.840 And so I want to talk

01:03:21.100 about now

01:03:21.540 where the Tory party

01:03:22.640 should go from here

01:03:23.320 because this may well be

01:03:24.760 unpopular

01:03:25.420 with the Lotus Seater's audience

01:03:27.440 but I do actually think

01:03:28.820 there is a way

01:03:29.460 that the Tory party

01:03:30.140 could be used

01:03:30.940 as a vehicle

01:03:31.580 for radical ideas

01:03:33.160 and for radical change

01:03:34.060 because the Tory party

01:03:34.900 is so desperate

01:03:35.680 and so flatlining

01:03:36.840 and so obviously dying.

01:03:38.860 I think that there is

01:03:39.620 at least an opening there

01:03:40.700 for the sound people

01:03:42.580 in the party

01:03:43.120 of which there are

01:03:44.020 quite a few,

01:03:45.240 a good number

01:03:45.780 of very sound people.

01:03:46.580 Well, Rupert said

01:03:47.720 about between 130 MPs

01:03:49.900 probably about 50.

01:03:51.280 Yeah, I mean,

01:03:51.900 yeah, I won't list

01:03:53.340 the 50 here

01:03:53.860 but the three metrics

01:03:54.940 that I will use

01:03:55.760 are those people

01:03:56.760 who have signed

01:03:57.680 Rupert's mass deportation

01:03:58.980 early day motion,

01:03:59.960 those who attended

01:04:00.780 the rape gang inquiry

01:04:01.720 that we held

01:04:02.260 in Parliament

01:04:02.840 last week

01:04:03.920 and those who voted

01:04:05.640 or rather signed

01:04:06.680 the early day motion

01:04:07.400 to release Lucy Connolly.

01:04:09.780 So, those people are

01:04:11.420 as follows.

01:04:12.520 Jack Rankin,

01:04:13.180 Peter Bedford,

01:04:13.840 Andrew Rosendale,

01:04:14.600 Lewis Cockin,

01:04:15.260 Gavin Williamson,

01:04:15.980 Louis French,

01:04:16.780 John Lamont,

01:04:17.340 Paul Holmes,

01:04:18.180 Andrew Snowden,

01:04:18.920 Julian Lewis,

01:04:19.620 John Hayes,

01:04:20.360 Esther McVeigh,

01:04:22.680 Gavin Williamson,

01:04:23.440 oh sorry,

01:04:23.720 that's Andrew Rosendale there,

01:04:26.140 Geoffrey Clifton Brown,

01:04:27.560 Robbie Moore,

01:04:28.080 Matt Vickers

01:04:28.600 and yeah,

01:04:30.660 more of the same,

01:04:31.160 Charlie Dewhurst as well

01:04:32.220 who signed for

01:04:33.460 Lucy Connolly

01:04:34.760 to be released

01:04:35.340 and there are some

01:04:36.180 honorable mentions as well,

01:04:37.480 Robert Jenrick of course,

01:04:38.600 Nick Timothy,

01:04:39.520 Katie Lamb

01:04:40.080 and Chris Philp

01:04:41.220 and I think Chris Philp

01:04:42.040 is one of those people

01:04:42.660 who is,

01:04:43.240 you know,

01:04:43.600 I don't think he genuinely

01:04:44.340 believes a lot of the stuff

01:04:45.340 he says

01:04:45.720 but I think that he can see

01:04:46.880 the way the wind is blowing

01:04:47.640 and I actually think

01:04:48.360 that a lot of the party

01:04:48.980 are that way.

01:04:49.680 I think that if they could be

01:04:50.420 shown that power and victory

01:04:51.600 lies with being more radical

01:04:53.500 and being more right wing

01:04:54.820 they could be won over

01:04:56.940 and that's why,

01:04:58.540 you know,

01:04:58.840 there is this specter

01:05:00.000 haunting the Tory party

01:05:01.540 which is Rupert Lowe.

01:05:05.480 God, what a magnificent image.

01:05:07.140 I know.

01:05:07.700 So basically you want,

01:05:08.580 you think it could be the case

01:05:10.320 that a based Tory party emerges

01:05:12.720 when Kami Badnock steps down.

01:05:16.620 Listen,

01:05:16.920 what we're dealing with

01:05:17.800 in the Tory party

01:05:18.580 is people who respond

01:05:19.580 to incentives.

01:05:20.540 You know,

01:05:20.680 they are people

01:05:21.360 who want to keep their seats,

01:05:22.760 they want power,

01:05:23.520 they want to be invited

01:05:24.200 to nice Westminster drinks parties

01:05:25.660 and all the rest of it

01:05:26.340 and if you can show those people

01:05:28.040 that the public sentiment

01:05:29.360 and votes and victory

01:05:30.660 lie with us,

01:05:32.080 I think they will come over

01:05:33.220 and look,

01:05:33.900 I recognise that it's not ideal

01:05:35.460 to have a group of people

01:05:37.100 who are just following incentives

01:05:38.300 kind of acting on our behalf

01:05:41.380 but it's better than people

01:05:42.400 who are either ideologically

01:05:43.640 committed to the opposite

01:05:44.540 or just totally without,

01:05:46.040 you know,

01:05:46.500 a care for principles at all

01:05:47.900 and so I do believe

01:05:49.040 there is this opening

01:05:49.900 in the Tory party

01:05:50.720 for some sound ideas

01:05:52.860 and sound people

01:05:53.620 to start to come through

01:05:54.680 but what they need

01:05:55.820 is the right leadership

01:05:56.560 because Kemi Badenow

01:05:57.480 is just not the person.

01:05:59.120 Again,

01:05:59.460 she's, you know,

01:05:59.880 she's controlled

01:06:00.400 by these interests

01:06:01.520 that clearly just don't,

01:06:02.780 they just don't know

01:06:03.280 what time it is

01:06:04.200 in the country

01:06:04.760 and on the Gove point,

01:06:06.260 this is quite interesting,

01:06:07.040 I heard from a very reliable

01:06:08.320 source recently

01:06:09.000 that they're not talking

01:06:09.920 to each other.

01:06:11.420 I mean,

01:06:12.000 it has to be noted

01:06:12.700 that two of the appointments

01:06:13.680 she made

01:06:14.180 are close associates of Gove

01:06:15.840 so there's certainly

01:06:16.900 an amount of involvement

01:06:18.700 still there

01:06:19.300 but I'm told

01:06:20.340 that the two of them

01:06:21.080 are not on speaking terms

01:06:22.120 which I think is very interesting

01:06:23.280 given how passionately

01:06:24.220 he was backing her.

01:06:25.340 Anyway,

01:06:25.760 if you want to be part

01:06:26.720 of shifting the discourse

01:06:27.500 in this country

01:06:28.340 and playing a part

01:06:29.140 in the kind of movement

01:06:30.960 that I'm talking about,

01:06:31.820 you should join Restore Britain

01:06:32.760 which is Rupert Lowe's movement

01:06:34.980 of which I am a part

01:06:35.940 and it is only through

01:06:37.580 this kind of organisation,

01:06:39.000 this concerted organisation

01:06:40.300 and pressure

01:06:41.280 that we can actually

01:06:42.280 shift the discourse

01:06:42.920 in our direction

01:06:43.800 because we don't have

01:06:44.880 any electoral mechanisms

01:06:45.800 in the immediate future,

01:06:47.620 things are going to hell

01:06:48.380 in a handbasket

01:06:49.140 and so I think

01:06:50.260 that this is really

01:06:51.020 the only vehicle we have,

01:06:52.420 the only centre of gravity

01:06:53.260 that we have

01:06:53.900 for meaningfully changing

01:06:55.440 the way things are done now

01:06:56.740 because yeah,

01:06:57.260 everyone's talking about 2029

01:06:58.200 but actually things are bad now

01:06:59.520 and they need to change now.

01:07:02.320 They do.

01:07:03.060 But on the point of 2029

01:07:04.980 because I agree with you

01:07:06.700 that that's where,

01:07:08.420 that we do need

01:07:09.300 to change things now

01:07:10.480 but obviously 2029

01:07:11.800 is where the bigger changes

01:07:13.460 would come

01:07:14.400 and I think that

01:07:16.120 what you have there is

01:07:17.200 because of

01:07:18.180 all the existential problems

01:07:19.800 that you outlined earlier

01:07:20.960 we're in a position now

01:07:23.300 where do we wish to fail

01:07:25.000 but do it perfectly

01:07:26.300 in the pursuit of perfection

01:07:28.440 or do we actually want to win

01:07:30.400 for the first time

01:07:31.480 in our lifetime?

01:07:32.300 I'm so glad you said that

01:07:33.280 because this is so crucial

01:07:34.200 because this is why

01:07:35.480 we didn't start a party.

01:07:37.340 This is why we started

01:07:38.040 a movement

01:07:38.440 because actually a party,

01:07:39.480 like everyone says

01:07:40.020 well Rupert should have

01:07:40.600 started a party

01:07:41.180 but actually no,

01:07:42.240 that would have hampered

01:07:42.880 his ability

01:07:43.380 to shift the discourse

01:07:44.520 in the way that he has.

01:07:45.660 It would have hampered

01:07:46.100 his ability to create

01:07:47.160 kind of,

01:07:49.360 well to find allies

01:07:50.440 in other parties

01:07:51.160 because he would be viewed

01:07:52.020 as an enemy,

01:07:52.840 as a rival castle,

01:07:53.840 a rival party.

01:07:54.600 Yeah reform would never

01:07:55.400 work with him.

01:07:56.020 Well exactly,

01:07:56.300 whereas this movement,

01:07:58.280 what we're essentially

01:07:59.000 trying to do

01:07:59.400 if you think about it

01:07:59.960 mapped on some kind of spectrum,

01:08:01.280 if Restore Britain is here

01:08:02.340 and reform and conservatives

01:08:03.420 are floating somewhere

01:08:04.240 around here,

01:08:04.960 what we're doing

01:08:05.680 is we're acting

01:08:06.220 as a centre of gravity

01:08:07.100 and pulling them towards us

01:08:08.340 and as I've already said today

01:08:09.440 this is already happening

01:08:10.740 because in the wake

01:08:11.540 of our activism

01:08:12.180 and our campaigning

01:08:13.080 specifically around the topic

01:08:14.520 of negative immigration

01:08:15.800 which is to say

01:08:16.660 reversing mass immigration,

01:08:18.640 Reform UK have come out

01:08:19.700 and said that they are now

01:08:20.880 a net negative immigration party.

01:08:22.720 Now of course they'd never say

01:08:23.560 that that was because of us

01:08:24.360 but I mean we've been

01:08:26.300 really leading the charge

01:08:27.700 on that in the mainstream

01:08:28.580 and now they're saying it

01:08:29.860 and again increasing numbers

01:08:31.240 of Tories are interested

01:08:32.140 in what we're doing

01:08:32.800 and so I think really

01:08:34.540 we have a real opportunity here

01:08:36.600 to create something

01:08:38.120 like an arms race

01:08:39.060 between the Reform Party

01:08:40.020 and the Conservative Party

01:08:40.800 because I'm not wedded to either.

01:08:42.080 I think whichever is

01:08:43.020 the most viable vehicle

01:08:43.860 for our ideas

01:08:44.580 entering the halls of power

01:08:45.780 I'll take it.

01:08:46.480 If that's a Conservative Party

01:08:47.380 so be it.

01:08:47.960 If that's Reform so be it 0.68

01:08:49.020 but it's not clear right now

01:08:50.000 which one it will be

01:08:50.660 and I don't think either of them

01:08:51.960 are ready for government yet

01:08:53.280 largely for the same reasons

01:08:54.700 personnel, lack of policy,

01:08:56.840 lack of vision,

01:08:57.720 lack of organisation.

01:08:59.000 They're both in the same boat

01:08:59.860 and it's so embarrassing

01:09:00.740 that that's the condition

01:09:01.560 of the right in this country

01:09:03.200 in this time of national crisis

01:09:04.580 but nevertheless

01:09:05.520 we have to make something

01:09:06.920 of this situation

01:09:07.840 and I don't think

01:09:08.680 a new party is the solution.

01:09:10.260 I think that we need to

01:09:11.100 work with what we have

01:09:12.180 and I do think that it is possible

01:09:13.640 there are glimmers of hope

01:09:14.540 in both parties

01:09:15.440 to turn them into

01:09:16.680 the kind of vehicle

01:09:17.480 that we need.

01:09:18.480 I agree with you.

01:09:19.820 I agree.

01:09:21.200 Alright, I'll read through

01:09:22.260 some of the rumble ramps

01:09:23.460 for your segment.

01:09:24.680 It says,

01:09:25.460 Logan17pines says,

01:09:26.980 all I have to say is

01:09:27.980 zero seats for the Tories

01:09:29.360 and Labour.

01:09:30.300 Well, obviously...

01:09:31.820 Sure, yeah, sure.

01:09:32.720 But it's a nice idea

01:09:33.660 but actually

01:09:34.040 if the Tories become viable,

01:09:35.280 why?

01:09:36.140 Also, it's a bit like

01:09:37.280 the ship of Theseus,

01:09:38.720 isn't it?

01:09:39.240 Because you can take

01:09:40.100 all of the planks

01:09:41.320 out of a Tory party

01:09:42.300 and replace them

01:09:42.920 with our own planks.

01:09:43.800 Well, it's not the old ship now,

01:09:45.180 it's the new ship.

01:09:45.940 Yeah.

01:09:46.280 Right?

01:09:46.740 And by the way,

01:09:47.600 the Tory party has done that before.

01:09:49.400 Thatcher was an example of this.

01:09:50.480 One thing that...

01:09:52.180 I'm sympathetic to people

01:09:54.380 who are very annoyed

01:09:55.980 with the Tories

01:09:57.660 but on the other hand,

01:09:59.440 actually it's not necessarily

01:10:01.020 an argument against it

01:10:01.900 but recognizability

01:10:04.240 and brand helps,

01:10:05.820 especially in politics.

01:10:07.740 They do have a brand.

01:10:08.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:09.920 They're the oldest

01:10:10.680 and most successful

01:10:11.420 political organization

01:10:12.180 in the world.

01:10:12.900 Yeah. 0.99

01:10:13.200 Many of them are traitors. 0.97

01:10:14.700 Like, let's not get that twisted. 0.99

01:10:16.860 Many of them are traitors 0.87

01:10:17.820 who are sitting in Parliament 0.93

01:10:18.740 right now

01:10:19.360 but it's not all of them

01:10:20.600 and it is also, again,

01:10:23.200 it's one possible tool

01:10:24.800 in the toolbox,

01:10:25.600 the Tory party.

01:10:26.440 And again,

01:10:26.780 this idea that we have to be

01:10:28.000 absolutely like purist

01:10:29.400 and ideologically committed

01:10:30.740 to never working

01:10:31.380 with the Tories 1.00

01:10:31.860 is just stupid. 1.00

01:10:32.820 It's like what you were saying 1.00

01:10:33.500 about letting the perfect

01:10:34.540 be the enemy of the good.

01:10:36.040 Yeah, and as far as

01:10:37.660 the perfect is the enemy

01:10:38.660 of the good is concerned

01:10:39.740 is that in some spaces

01:10:41.860 maximalist language

01:10:43.220 is promoted

01:10:45.680 but you can't build

01:10:48.300 a coalition,

01:10:50.120 be that a party

01:10:51.360 or a movement,

01:10:52.720 out of people

01:10:53.320 who don't compromise

01:10:54.420 with anything.

01:10:55.460 Yes.

01:10:56.160 Yeah.

01:10:56.560 And when you have people

01:10:57.700 whose whole...

01:10:59.660 whose flag,

01:11:00.780 essentially,

01:11:01.200 is that I'm not

01:11:02.580 compromising with anything,

01:11:03.940 you can't cooperate

01:11:06.100 with them.

01:11:06.660 And listen,

01:11:07.220 I mean,

01:11:07.500 I respect Ben Habib

01:11:08.940 hugely

01:11:09.520 and I think he's

01:11:10.960 a very, very

01:11:11.620 committed man,

01:11:12.960 he's a very, very

01:11:13.420 principled man

01:11:14.080 but he is this way,

01:11:15.300 I have to say.

01:11:16.040 He is more interested

01:11:17.060 in being right

01:11:17.740 than he is in winning,

01:11:19.380 I think,

01:11:19.780 which is why he was

01:11:20.420 so committed

01:11:20.780 to going down

01:11:21.300 the party route

01:11:21.940 which we disagreed with.

01:11:23.000 Yeah.

01:11:23.060 Anyway,

01:11:24.960 I think this second

01:11:25.680 point here is interesting.

01:11:26.620 Can I read this out?

01:11:27.200 Yeah, go for it.

01:11:27.640 So the hapsification, 1.00

01:11:29.180 the destruction of the Tories

01:11:30.040 via zero seats

01:11:30.840 should be part one.

01:11:32.020 Part two should be

01:11:32.680 about blocking these Tories

01:11:33.620 from fleeing the ship

01:11:34.520 and attaching themselves

01:11:35.360 to other movements

01:11:36.000 and parties

01:11:36.440 and that's the point,

01:11:37.180 right?

01:11:37.780 I mean,

01:11:38.120 I don't necessarily agree

01:11:39.700 with the zero seats thing.

01:11:40.800 I mean,

01:11:41.080 if the Tory parties

01:11:41.880 don't change,

01:11:42.660 if they keep

01:11:43.240 Baden-Ock

01:11:43.800 or somebody like her,

01:11:44.740 Cleverley for instance,

01:11:45.740 in the position of leadership,

01:11:46.840 they're done.

01:11:47.540 It's over for them

01:11:48.340 and don't get me wrong,

01:11:49.040 I'm going to be saying,

01:11:49.600 if they're led by someone

01:11:50.700 like Cleverley

01:11:51.240 in 2029,

01:11:52.320 I'm going to be saying,

01:11:52.980 yeah,

01:11:53.460 they're not our vehicle,

01:11:54.560 they're not our guys.

01:11:55.180 Final blow.

01:11:55.880 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:56.540 But actually,

01:11:56.900 you have to change

01:11:57.960 with the circumstances

01:11:59.040 and look,

01:12:00.320 let's be real here,

01:12:01.160 reform are not presenting

01:12:02.360 a particularly appealing

01:12:03.400 prospect right now.

01:12:05.120 And even if they won,

01:12:05.960 you cannot trust them.

01:12:07.060 They just seem,

01:12:07.920 they seem unserious,

01:12:09.000 they seem disorganised

01:12:10.820 and look,

01:12:11.760 I know these people,

01:12:13.300 I know many of the people

01:12:14.860 who actually run the party

01:12:16.720 and a lot of them

01:12:18.180 are good people

01:12:18.760 but there is also

01:12:20.060 a certain element

01:12:20.880 within the party

01:12:21.460 who are just unserious

01:12:22.380 and who are not interested

01:12:23.180 in detail

01:12:23.720 and they don't even seem

01:12:25.020 like they want to win.

01:12:25.880 That's the weird thing about it.

01:12:26.920 They seem more interested

01:12:27.580 in the lifestyle

01:12:28.480 associated with being

01:12:29.620 in politics.

01:12:31.720 But anyway,

01:12:32.140 if reform show themselves

01:12:33.680 to be the viable vehicle,

01:12:34.680 I will get on board with them

01:12:35.660 because the country

01:12:36.540 is what should be our priority

01:12:37.980 at this time.

01:12:40.440 But no,

01:12:40.800 I mean,

01:12:41.560 again,

01:12:42.100 I know people in both parties

01:12:44.100 and there are sound people

01:12:44.920 in both parties

01:12:45.540 and it's just about

01:12:46.120 bringing those people together.

01:12:47.700 You know?

01:12:48.000 I agree.

01:12:48.340 So, again,

01:12:49.440 Charlie tried to change

01:12:50.240 the Tories as pointless.

01:12:51.300 They've done far too much damage 0.97

01:12:52.440 and the Tories carry

01:12:53.360 far too much historical baggage.

01:12:55.200 And again,

01:12:55.740 I get that.

01:12:56.540 Like,

01:12:56.640 I do get,

01:12:57.260 I'm not trying to like be,

01:12:58.900 like go to bat

01:12:59.480 for the Tories here.

01:13:00.240 I'm just saying,

01:13:00.780 I'm just looking at the landscape

01:13:01.600 as it exists

01:13:02.360 and looking at where

01:13:03.180 there are openings

01:13:03.920 for our kind of ideas,

01:13:05.420 the kind of ideas

01:13:06.080 that those of us

01:13:06.600 in our space

01:13:07.160 have been talking about

01:13:08.640 for years at this point.

01:13:10.080 And look,

01:13:10.580 is it reform?

01:13:11.400 You tell me.

01:13:12.420 You know?

01:13:12.720 I mean,

01:13:13.120 is it the Conservative Party?

01:13:14.520 Again,

01:13:14.700 it's not clear at this stage.

01:13:15.800 But we have to be prepared

01:13:17.080 to,

01:13:17.680 like you said,

01:13:18.320 Stadios,

01:13:18.780 compromise

01:13:19.180 and kind of make peace

01:13:21.060 with,

01:13:21.760 you know,

01:13:22.260 compromise with people

01:13:23.680 that we don't necessarily like

01:13:24.860 but who are prepared.

01:13:26.060 And just to say

01:13:26.900 what I meant,

01:13:27.820 when I'm saying compromise,

01:13:28.840 I'm not saying

01:13:29.340 turning you back

01:13:30.380 to your principles.

01:13:30.980 Of course not.

01:13:32.220 Of course not.

01:13:32.480 Of course,

01:13:32.580 there are red lines.

01:13:33.660 Of course.

01:13:34.600 It's not the,

01:13:36.200 if you can't,

01:13:37.460 there is necessarily

01:13:38.580 low membership

01:13:39.440 to Lone Wolf Society.

01:13:40.880 Yeah.

01:13:41.060 That's what I mean.

01:13:41.400 Yeah,

01:13:41.580 that's so right.

01:13:42.460 And again,

01:13:42.900 if your principle

01:13:44.160 is either 100%

01:13:45.520 or nothing at all,

01:13:46.380 then you're going to get

01:13:46.900 nothing at all,

01:13:47.600 unfortunately.

01:13:48.200 Whereas if your principle

01:13:48.880 is we'll take 50%

01:13:50.200 to begin with,

01:13:51.180 if that means

01:13:52.020 making some compromises,

01:13:53.060 I take that.

01:13:53.760 If we get 50%

01:13:54.720 of what we want, 0.98

01:13:55.640 we will be in a damn

01:13:56.400 sight better place

01:13:57.060 than we are now.

01:13:57.600 Oh,

01:13:57.880 absolutely.

01:13:58.700 Just one more thing

01:13:59.740 on that point as well

01:14:00.640 is just that,

01:14:01.740 as regards to

01:14:02.280 Habsification's point 1.00

01:14:03.260 about them having

01:14:05.500 too much historical baggage,

01:14:07.860 that is true.

01:14:08.960 And it's undoubtedly

01:14:09.800 the place of part

01:14:11.400 of the reason

01:14:11.800 why the Tories

01:14:12.480 are failing now

01:14:13.320 under Kemi,

01:14:14.140 even though Kemi's

01:14:14.940 the last thing

01:14:15.660 that they need

01:14:16.340 in every conceivable way

01:14:17.760 to do better.

01:14:19.300 And perhaps the membership

01:14:20.520 and the MPs

01:14:21.580 should have been smarter

01:14:22.480 in that

01:14:22.940 for their own sense

01:14:24.380 of self-preservation

01:14:25.440 if nothing else.

01:14:26.540 But if a leader

01:14:28.400 would come into

01:14:29.100 a Tory party

01:14:30.000 with a dynamic

01:14:31.580 view of change

01:14:34.020 and the public

01:14:35.320 were to see

01:14:36.700 the change

01:14:37.960 happening in the party.

01:14:38.820 A genuine clean break

01:14:39.900 with the party.

01:14:40.200 Right.

01:14:40.740 You can see it happening

01:14:42.240 before your eyes.

01:14:43.520 And much in the same way,

01:14:44.660 it's not entirely

01:14:45.540 a comparison,

01:14:46.640 but in the way that

01:14:47.660 Keir Starmer

01:14:48.560 changed Labour

01:14:49.240 after Corbyn,

01:14:50.380 right,

01:14:50.620 people knew it just

01:14:51.660 wasn't the same party

01:14:52.780 anymore.

01:14:53.100 and people

01:14:54.840 follow up on that,

01:14:56.020 right,

01:14:56.220 they notice

01:14:56.920 when things are

01:14:59.500 what they once were

01:15:00.620 against what they are now.

01:15:02.160 Yeah.

01:15:02.480 But that is the way

01:15:03.380 our system works.

01:15:04.040 People forget this,

01:15:05.000 but, you know,

01:15:05.560 the two parties,

01:15:06.580 Labour and Conservative,

01:15:07.520 have both undergone

01:15:08.680 substantial transformations.

01:15:11.780 Even, you know,

01:15:12.220 as recently as

01:15:12.680 like New Labour.

01:15:13.520 New Labour is an example

01:15:14.460 of this.

01:15:14.700 What is needed now,

01:15:16.320 one option that we have,

01:15:17.620 is something like

01:15:18.260 the new Conservatives.

01:15:19.120 I wouldn't call it that.

01:15:20.060 After four elections

01:15:21.580 of defeat.

01:15:22.280 Yeah.

01:15:22.920 Well, yeah.

01:15:23.840 I mean,

01:15:24.060 hopefully it doesn't

01:15:25.160 take that long

01:15:25.660 because we will be 0.98

01:15:26.140 screwed if it does. 0.98

01:15:27.440 No, no, 0.62

01:15:27.780 I'm not saying that.

01:15:28.680 I'm just saying that

01:15:29.580 eventually the public

01:15:31.100 will be condemned.

01:15:31.700 And again,

01:15:32.440 this is the thing.

01:15:33.140 In terms of responding

01:15:33.820 to incentives,

01:15:34.600 if the Conservative Party

01:15:35.580 get desperate enough,

01:15:36.560 this will happen. 1.00

01:15:37.580 Because they're not stupid. 1.00

01:15:38.380 As much as they might be, 1.00

01:15:40.160 you know,

01:15:40.320 as much as there might be

01:15:41.000 people in their ranks

01:15:42.020 who don't have the best

01:15:42.780 interest of the country

01:15:43.500 at heart, 0.97

01:15:43.920 they aren't stupid. 0.98

01:15:45.080 They're savvy 0.99

01:15:45.580 political operators.

01:15:46.480 They wouldn't be,

01:15:47.160 you know,

01:15:47.420 the most successful party

01:15:48.360 in the world

01:15:48.680 if they weren't, right?

01:15:49.760 Right.

01:15:50.360 Okay.

01:15:51.060 Let's go to the video

01:15:52.060 comments then.

01:15:52.900 Thank you.

01:15:54.400 Recently I was speaking

01:15:55.160 to a friend whose entire

01:15:56.020 family is in the

01:15:56.580 Canadian education system

01:15:57.780 and beyond the usual

01:15:58.520 issues you'd expect

01:15:59.180 with the diversity,

01:15:59.960 he told me about

01:16:00.400 some Syrian refugees

01:16:01.380 with genuine shell shocks

01:16:02.760 so bad every time

01:16:03.760 the period bell went off

01:16:04.880 they'd have genuine

01:16:05.460 panic attacks

01:16:06.240 starting to tip over

01:16:07.120 deaths to make

01:16:07.760 makeshift cover.

01:16:08.700 Also interestingly,

01:16:09.500 the Ukrainian refugees

01:16:10.320 we took come from

01:16:11.100 such a low-trust society

01:16:12.160 they just form cartels 0.99

01:16:13.320 and bully all the white kids. 0.99

01:16:14.540 and are otherwise 1.00

01:16:15.160 such genuine white supremacists

01:16:16.720 they essentially engage

01:16:17.500 in racial conflict

01:16:18.380 with everyone else.

01:16:19.420 Can you imagine

01:16:20.060 growing up

01:16:20.760 under these conditions?

01:16:22.280 I'm turning 30 this month

01:16:23.560 and above all

01:16:24.280 it really stood out to me

01:16:25.260 that people my age

01:16:26.300 are most likely

01:16:27.200 the last to ever know

01:16:28.180 the last to ever know

01:16:28.200 normalcy.

01:16:30.040 Well, happy birthday

01:16:31.740 for them, of course.

01:16:33.000 Happy birthday.

01:16:33.780 And who knows,

01:16:34.880 perhaps those Ukrainian refugees

01:16:36.640 will be giving spicy speeches

01:16:38.880 in the Canadian Parliament

01:16:40.340 which has historically

01:16:42.080 happened recently.

01:16:43.040 this should be a Radio Juno video.

01:16:54.420 This should be a Radio Juno video.

01:16:54.480 when we say that

01:17:13.760 Kemi Bowden

01:17:14.440 or King Joy

01:17:14.960 is doom scrolling.

01:17:16.160 Yeah.

01:17:17.640 I don't even think

01:17:18.720 this is the sort of stuff

01:17:19.840 she watches

01:17:20.340 to be honest.

01:17:21.560 No.

01:17:22.540 Oh, goodness.

01:17:23.700 UK.

01:17:25.000 You need to have

01:17:25.860 a level of cringe

01:17:27.120 of love of cringe

01:17:29.380 to watch videos

01:17:30.340 like these.

01:17:31.540 You see,

01:17:32.180 my love of cringe

01:17:32.820 is very, very particular.

01:17:34.960 Very, very particular.

01:17:36.300 It's not that.

01:17:37.060 No, it's not that.

01:17:37.940 It's like Peep Show

01:17:38.760 and Alan Partridge.

01:17:39.860 That's my love of cringe. 0.74

01:17:40.380 That's good.

01:17:40.700 Okay, so just some comments

01:17:44.600 from my segment.

01:17:45.460 Omar Awad says,

01:17:46.620 I haven't verified this at all

01:17:48.120 but I'd seen a post

01:17:49.980 that the hotel owner

01:17:51.380 is of a certain maybe

01:17:53.700 and living in Austria

01:17:55.140 to avoid tax.

01:17:57.040 If so,

01:17:57.680 not only is he rinsing

01:17:59.120 the taxpayer

01:17:59.680 and ruining our country

01:18:00.820 for profit,

01:18:01.980 he's not even paying

01:18:03.460 the government

01:18:03.880 for the privilege.

01:18:04.820 Well, I didn't include it

01:18:06.060 in the segment

01:18:06.520 but I did see

01:18:07.820 an article

01:18:08.680 from last year,

01:18:09.600 in fact,

01:18:10.000 talking about

01:18:11.020 the terrible reputation

01:18:12.780 of the Britannia hotels.

01:18:14.580 Okay, that's interesting.

01:18:16.020 You know,

01:18:16.620 four star or not,

01:18:17.800 they weren't very well regarded.

01:18:19.720 I also didn't mention it

01:18:20.740 in the segment

01:18:21.260 but apparently,

01:18:23.240 and truth be told,

01:18:24.280 again,

01:18:24.620 I can't see how it would be

01:18:25.920 any other way

01:18:26.660 but all the staff

01:18:28.500 who of course worked

01:18:29.320 at the Britannia hotel

01:18:30.340 have been sacked as well.

01:18:31.520 It's so weird,

01:18:32.400 that part of it.

01:18:33.160 Like, what are they trying to do?

01:18:33.860 I mean,

01:18:34.020 they're obviously trying

01:18:34.620 to cover it up.

01:18:35.740 Like a Stalinistic purge

01:18:37.480 to stop the secret

01:18:38.300 getting out

01:18:38.900 which it did.

01:18:39.680 the next day.

01:18:40.700 Yeah.

01:18:41.060 Great.

01:18:42.660 Jimbo G says,

01:18:43.860 I used to work

01:18:44.620 in the Britannia hotel

01:18:45.460 and it was shockingly poor.

01:18:47.520 Well, that would align

01:18:48.360 with what I just said.

01:18:49.700 Even by bad hotel standards,

01:18:51.720 the management

01:18:52.260 has run it into the ground.

01:18:53.640 I imagine the black hole

01:18:54.740 of taxpayer money

01:18:55.660 they will be getting

01:18:56.640 for the migrants

01:18:57.380 will keep it secure

01:18:58.540 and afloat.

01:18:59.340 Oh, this is the most

01:18:59.980 disgusting thing

01:19:00.560 about the whole 0.76

01:19:01.040 illegal immigration thing

01:19:02.060 is it's a money business.

01:19:03.960 People can make a...

01:19:04.680 I mean, there's that guy.

01:19:05.920 I can't remember his name

01:19:06.640 off the top of my head.

01:19:07.800 This hotel tycoon character

01:19:09.540 who's a billionaire

01:19:10.160 almost purely off of this trade.

01:19:13.180 Oh, it made me sick.

01:19:13.800 Okay.

01:19:14.940 Speaking of managers,

01:19:16.460 I think that this is

01:19:17.280 one of the best ways

01:19:19.340 of persuading

01:19:20.180 ex-leftists

01:19:22.160 to start thinking

01:19:23.520 in less commie terms

01:19:26.320 is to talk to them

01:19:28.480 about managers

01:19:29.300 and especially,

01:19:30.800 you know,

01:19:30.920 because in the communist view

01:19:33.060 in Marxism,

01:19:33.720 for instance,

01:19:34.020 managers are just

01:19:35.160 doing nothing.

01:19:36.000 Yeah.

01:19:36.440 Okay.

01:19:36.800 But talk to them

01:19:38.940 and show them

01:19:40.260 how do bad managers

01:19:42.060 destroy their weekly lives

01:19:44.740 and how good managers

01:19:46.320 can reverse this

01:19:47.440 and they have your attention.

01:19:49.800 Yeah.

01:19:50.120 Yeah.

01:19:50.620 Well, I remember

01:19:51.480 was it a segment

01:19:52.680 you did recently, Charlie,

01:19:53.760 about the five Marxist

01:19:55.440 reasons against

01:19:56.560 mass immigration.

01:19:57.580 That's right, yeah.

01:19:58.020 And of course,

01:19:58.940 they're perfectly,

01:19:59.880 you know,

01:20:00.540 salient points

01:20:01.340 but as to your point,

01:20:02.520 Stelios,

01:20:02.880 I just wonder

01:20:03.700 whether or not

01:20:04.900 if you were to have

01:20:05.740 this argument with them,

01:20:07.200 their hatred of managers

01:20:08.840 and the rich

01:20:09.800 would be put above

01:20:12.240 their self-loathing

01:20:13.640 themselves.

01:20:15.080 It wouldn't work

01:20:16.660 in a debate.

01:20:17.300 And the guilt.

01:20:17.780 It wouldn't work

01:20:18.440 in a debate

01:20:18.940 because that's where

01:20:20.080 the factor of the audience

01:20:21.960 would be present

01:20:23.240 but on a one-to-one

01:20:24.400 conversation

01:20:25.140 it's easier

01:20:26.260 for them

01:20:26.600 to accept this.

01:20:27.900 Yeah.

01:20:29.460 We've got

01:20:30.160 Man of Kent

01:20:30.900 saying,

01:20:31.400 Stelios,

01:20:32.060 the second chair

01:20:33.140 in the hotel

01:20:33.900 is for the...

01:20:35.600 Okay,

01:20:39.720 well,

01:20:40.700 point taken,

01:20:41.440 Man of Kent.

01:20:42.200 Thank you very much.

01:20:44.460 I'll leave that one there.

01:20:45.820 Glad I caught myself.

01:20:46.980 I'm clearly learning.

01:20:48.820 And Zesty King

01:20:49.560 says,

01:20:49.920 the Epping protests

01:20:50.880 could be solved

01:20:51.880 by simply...

01:20:53.500 Oh, gosh.

01:20:55.580 Ah,

01:20:56.220 so much.

01:20:57.720 Yes,

01:20:58.340 Bonnie Blue

01:20:59.440 into the hotel.

01:21:01.020 Should need more

01:21:01.660 than two chairs.

01:21:03.160 Oh, my God.

01:21:03.600 That room would need 0.55

01:21:04.740 more than two chairs.

01:21:05.920 Wonderful to have you back,

01:21:07.180 Stelios.

01:21:07.960 Wonderful to have you back.

01:21:09.740 All right,

01:21:10.100 do you want to go through

01:21:10.660 some comments

01:21:11.220 for your segment?

01:21:12.120 Yes, of course.

01:21:13.640 There are not going to be

01:21:14.420 about Bonnie Blue.

01:21:15.720 Let's hope not.

01:21:16.760 Right.

01:21:17.000 And don't make them

01:21:17.780 about Bonnie Blue.

01:21:19.420 Go on then.

01:21:19.960 Right,

01:21:20.320 so Fuzzy Toaster

01:21:21.260 says,

01:21:22.440 Mehdi is the kind of person

01:21:23.840 to make a mistake

01:21:24.800 if you get them

01:21:25.520 flustered about something.

01:21:26.900 He really isn't

01:21:28.020 the kind of person

01:21:28.760 to be doing what he does,

01:21:30.140 which is why this thing

01:21:31.100 was manufactured.

01:21:32.260 Yeah.

01:21:33.920 And this,

01:21:35.160 I mean,

01:21:35.440 I don't know

01:21:35.860 to what extent it was.

01:21:37.100 I'm willing to...

01:21:38.380 I'm inclined to believe

01:21:40.140 that it was

01:21:41.080 because I think

01:21:42.040 that these setups

01:21:43.160 are incredibly artificial.

01:21:45.180 Yeah.

01:21:45.540 And the casting thing,

01:21:46.920 I actually didn't

01:21:48.460 show it live,

01:21:49.540 but it's very suspicious.

01:21:52.140 I don't know,

01:21:52.580 Samson,

01:21:52.960 could we pull out

01:21:54.380 the second segment,

01:21:55.920 the third link?

01:21:58.060 So if we go

01:21:59.240 on the third link,

01:22:00.680 it says we're currently casting

01:22:02.520 and look at the person

01:22:03.940 who casts.

01:22:05.360 Oh, dear.

01:22:05.860 That doesn't exactly

01:22:06.880 scream trust.

01:22:07.840 It actually gives different...

01:22:10.100 It raises different connotations,

01:22:12.400 let's say.

01:22:12.900 Okay.

01:22:13.400 Right.

01:22:13.780 Okay,

01:22:13.960 so White Rider says

01:22:15.660 leftists are the biggest

01:22:17.280 followers of the Schmidian

01:22:18.620 friend-animate distinction.

01:22:20.120 We don't need to have

01:22:21.220 the same political views

01:22:22.220 to be friends,

01:22:22.940 is only ever said

01:22:23.880 by right-wing people.

01:22:25.500 If anything,

01:22:26.140 the right need to follow

01:22:27.640 the friend-animate distinction

01:22:28.880 to the same degree.

01:22:31.000 If the left want to

01:22:32.180 ostracize everyone else

01:22:33.380 that doesn't believe

01:22:34.040 in their ideology,

01:22:35.220 we should acquiesce

01:22:36.280 and allow them

01:22:36.920 to be alone.

01:22:38.100 I do find it quite frustrating

01:22:39.900 the way that people

01:22:41.220 on the right now,

01:22:42.140 now that everyone's

01:22:42.740 discovered Carl Schmid,

01:22:43.520 everyone just like

01:22:44.120 references him

01:22:44.780 in every single conversation.

01:22:45.960 It's like,

01:22:46.100 well, actually,

01:22:46.520 friend-enemy,

01:22:46.980 friend-enemy,

01:22:47.400 friend-enemy.

01:22:48.060 And it's like,

01:22:48.500 yeah,

01:22:48.700 it's a useful

01:22:49.540 conceptual framework,

01:22:50.680 but it's not the answer

01:22:51.580 to everything.

01:22:52.460 But also,

01:22:53.440 notice how ungrammatical,

01:22:55.420 in ungrammatical ways

01:22:56.760 they speak

01:22:57.280 when they mention it

01:22:58.800 lots of the times.

01:23:00.140 Yeah.

01:23:00.320 But also,

01:23:00.940 you know,

01:23:01.400 I think everyone follows it

01:23:03.380 and that's where

01:23:04.180 the abstract aspect

01:23:06.200 of Schmid points.

01:23:07.420 It's just,

01:23:08.240 you know,

01:23:08.720 I think,

01:23:09.300 by the way,

01:23:09.760 it's just,

01:23:10.320 some people are incredibly

01:23:11.940 trigger-happy

01:23:13.760 to name one,

01:23:14.900 almost everyone,

01:23:15.860 an enemy. 1.00

01:23:17.020 Others are incredibly stupid 1.00

01:23:18.960 to name almost everyone 1.00

01:23:20.040 a friend.

01:23:20.580 Quite, yeah.

01:23:21.320 No, but I've been guilty

01:23:22.220 of doing the exact thing

01:23:23.000 that I just said.

01:23:23.680 I was on Talk TV

01:23:24.320 on one occasion

01:23:24.940 and I said,

01:23:25.820 well, Carl Schmid

01:23:26.340 talks about this thing

01:23:27.120 called the friend-enemy

01:23:27.760 distinction

01:23:28.160 and the host was just like,

01:23:29.700 what?

01:23:30.760 And the right way

01:23:32.380 to kind of use it

01:23:33.820 is to internalize it.

01:23:34.740 You don't have to reference

01:23:35.440 it all the time.

01:23:36.020 You just have to recognize

01:23:36.640 that it's true.

01:23:37.420 I mean,

01:23:37.640 there are all sorts

01:23:38.660 of things that come with it.

01:23:40.860 So, for instance,

01:23:41.780 in some cases,

01:23:42.840 Schmid was saying

01:23:43.780 that the rivalry

01:23:47.040 between friends

01:23:47.940 and enemies

01:23:48.380 takes the form

01:23:50.240 of, you know,

01:23:51.560 killing each other

01:23:52.940 on the streets.

01:23:53.880 That's obviously

01:23:54.680 something I don't like.

01:23:56.240 But that,

01:23:57.260 we can abstract

01:23:58.240 several aspects

01:24:00.000 of this

01:24:00.860 from the more abstract

01:24:02.640 point that he made.

01:24:03.820 which I don't think

01:24:05.140 most people

01:24:05.780 would disagree with.

01:24:06.700 The issue is temperamental

01:24:08.180 with how trigger-happy

01:24:09.480 are you to name

01:24:10.700 one an enemy? 1.00

01:24:11.580 How stupid are you 1.00

01:24:12.920 to name almost 1.00

01:24:13.660 the entire world

01:24:14.480 a friend?

01:24:15.080 Even if the world

01:24:15.940 says that they hate you.

01:24:17.380 Indeed.

01:24:18.460 It's what we are.

01:24:19.860 Yeah.

01:24:20.360 Yeah.

01:24:21.260 Derek Power,

01:24:22.420 master of chippies.

01:24:24.280 I like this.

01:24:25.400 I think the fundamental

01:24:26.220 flaw with these kinds

01:24:27.500 of debates

01:24:28.100 is they use

01:24:29.300 the Hegelian dialectic.

01:24:31.220 If they were using

01:24:32.240 the classic dialectic,

01:24:33.620 that will be much better.

01:24:36.660 Yeah. 1.00

01:24:37.260 Play stupid games. 1.00

01:24:38.340 Also, Derek Power, 1.00

01:24:39.320 play stupid games, 1.00

01:24:40.780 win stupid prizes, 1.00

01:24:42.060 and in the end, 1.00

01:24:43.320 nothing ever happens.

01:24:44.940 Wink.

01:24:45.420 First day.

01:24:49.360 It really is

01:24:50.080 your first day back.

01:24:51.320 Yeah.

01:24:51.960 Roman Observer says,

01:24:53.300 if you want to be

01:24:54.020 edgy and hardcore

01:24:54.920 far right,

01:24:55.660 don't go for

01:24:56.300 I'm a Nazi,

01:24:57.740 which is a leftist

01:24:59.300 framing.

01:24:59.980 Say,

01:25:00.360 I want a full

01:25:01.100 own Catholic theocracy. 0.67

01:25:03.040 Yeah,

01:25:03.220 based.

01:25:04.260 So if you live,

01:25:06.040 I,

01:25:06.420 you know,

01:25:07.980 it's like the saying,

01:25:10.300 I,

01:25:12.620 for whatever,

01:25:13.980 forget,

01:25:14.300 forget this happened.

01:25:15.520 Forget this happened.

01:25:16.560 I had a blank.

01:25:17.700 One of my Joe Biden moments.

01:25:20.200 When I started,

01:25:20.880 you know,

01:25:21.100 when I started,

01:25:21.800 I had these blank moments.

01:25:23.320 You know,

01:25:24.060 the thing,

01:25:25.420 you know.

01:25:25.880 Yeah,

01:25:25.980 what was I going to say?

01:25:27.320 Anyway,

01:25:27.680 I had one of those.

01:25:29.280 Right.

01:25:29.600 And Sophie Liv,

01:25:30.960 I'm going to be

01:25:31.480 extra careful

01:25:32.240 with your comment,

01:25:33.420 Sophie.

01:25:34.440 Man Stelios,

01:25:35.900 I felt my brain 0.88

01:25:36.760 licking out of my ears.

01:25:38.820 Why would you do this?

01:25:40.900 Why would I not?

01:25:41.560 Why not?

01:25:42.440 Why the hell not?

01:25:44.980 Right.

01:25:45.480 How long have we got?

01:25:46.120 Five minutes.

01:25:47.560 I will go through

01:25:48.340 some of my comments.

01:25:49.000 So Zesty King says,

01:25:50.400 something else to note

01:25:51.220 is that Kemi Badenow's

01:25:52.000 husband Hamish

01:25:52.700 has links to the

01:25:53.520 World Economic Forum.

01:25:54.240 Yeah.

01:25:55.080 Hamish Badenow's

01:25:55.760 an interesting character

01:25:56.520 because he's another

01:25:57.080 one of these people

01:25:57.640 who exerts

01:25:58.860 quite a lot of control

01:25:59.700 over the Conservative Party.

01:26:01.800 And I mean,

01:26:02.680 I'm not,

01:26:03.100 I wasn't aware,

01:26:04.140 I mean,

01:26:04.280 I'm not surprised

01:26:04.800 that he has links to the WEF.

01:26:05.880 I wasn't aware of that

01:26:06.620 beforehand.

01:26:07.960 But he's another one

01:26:08.820 of these,

01:26:09.540 I mean,

01:26:09.820 my impression of him

01:26:10.680 from what I know

01:26:11.920 and from what people

01:26:12.580 who know

01:26:13.080 that kind of faction

01:26:15.220 have said

01:26:15.640 is that he's,

01:26:16.340 yeah,

01:26:16.740 a big part of the problem.

01:26:17.960 And so,

01:26:18.920 White Rider says,

01:26:19.940 most of us are still

01:26:20.620 classical liberals,

01:26:21.520 there's just a bigger fight

01:26:22.460 and classical liberalism

01:26:23.380 is not fit for that purpose.

01:26:24.960 Classical liberalism

01:26:25.540 only works in a homogenous society.

01:26:27.500 I'll be happy to be one again

01:26:28.500 when appropriate.

01:26:29.140 Yeah,

01:26:29.360 obviously true.

01:26:30.100 I mean,

01:26:30.260 I'm far from the first person

01:26:31.180 to say this,

01:26:31.680 but classical liberalism

01:26:32.420 is just the codification

01:26:33.280 of English life,

01:26:35.240 basically,

01:26:35.580 English habits.

01:26:39.480 We should have a discussion

01:26:41.000 about it at some point.

01:26:41.960 I'd love to.

01:26:42.480 Not a debate necessarily,

01:26:43.820 but I think...

01:26:44.340 Oh,

01:26:44.460 you've got five minutes

01:26:45.360 on the clock,

01:26:45.960 go.

01:26:46.840 Yeah,

01:26:46.980 yeah,

01:26:47.220 yeah.

01:26:47.560 No,

01:26:47.760 no.

01:26:47.940 Nazi Stelios? 0.53

01:26:50.000 No.

01:26:50.400 No,

01:26:52.460 we should do that.

01:26:52.940 That'd be fun.

01:26:53.580 Yeah,

01:26:53.900 we should.

01:26:54.540 I think it would be a good idea

01:26:56.100 at some point.

01:26:58.080 Daniel Rowan says,

01:26:58.900 makes me think that reform dumping Rupert,

01:27:00.840 putting him outside of the party system,

01:27:02.500 may actually have done more...

01:27:05.040 Good,

01:27:05.560 I assume you meant to say.

01:27:06.720 Funny how things go.

01:27:07.380 I mean,

01:27:07.560 yeah,

01:27:07.960 that is the case.

01:27:09.600 I mean,

01:27:09.800 Rupert has a lot more freedom now

01:27:11.520 as an independent,

01:27:12.280 which again,

01:27:12.780 is why we didn't start another new party.

01:27:14.580 As an independent,

01:27:15.340 he doesn't answer to anybody

01:27:16.400 apart from his constituents.

01:27:17.300 And so he's uniquely positioned

01:27:19.300 to say things that other people can't say,

01:27:21.620 aren't permitted to say,

01:27:22.840 to sort of act as this kind of

01:27:25.600 far more nimble,

01:27:27.080 like free agent

01:27:27.920 who can attack different issues

01:27:29.940 in a far more agile way

01:27:32.040 than an entire hulking party can.

01:27:35.400 And again,

01:27:35.940 that's the utility.

01:27:36.860 And by the way,

01:27:37.500 James McMurdoch...

01:27:38.640 I was about to come to that,

01:27:39.900 yeah.

01:27:40.620 He is now an independent as well.

01:27:42.560 And well,

01:27:43.820 he is beginning to signal

01:27:45.380 certain things.

01:27:46.300 I mean,

01:27:46.560 he said yesterday

01:27:47.180 that the only two issues

01:27:48.200 that matter right now

01:27:49.160 are mass deportations

01:27:50.300 and shrinking the state,

01:27:51.240 which is brilliant.

01:27:52.220 And again,

01:27:52.660 I can't help but think

01:27:53.740 that if he'd said that

01:27:54.340 when he was in reform,

01:27:55.460 probably wouldn't have...

01:27:56.320 Well,

01:27:56.420 that's the point.

01:27:57.040 He didn't say that in reform,

01:27:58.360 did he?

01:27:58.580 Exactly.

01:27:59.100 No,

01:27:59.280 James McMurdoch is a very good man

01:28:00.420 and I want to see him

01:28:02.360 become more

01:28:03.200 sort of in the public eye

01:28:05.080 and more active.

01:28:08.380 James Mc...

01:28:09.060 James McMeeking.

01:28:10.400 How weird.

01:28:11.200 The correct way to engage

01:28:12.460 with the forces of chaos

01:28:13.420 is with an armor of contempt.

01:28:15.080 Don't embrace nor fear them,

01:28:16.300 nor fear their accusations.

01:28:17.560 And yeah,

01:28:17.820 that is right.

01:28:18.420 When you confront these people

01:28:19.720 who just debate you

01:28:20.360 in a really dishonest fashion,

01:28:21.860 you don't buy into their game.

01:28:22.980 You just say,

01:28:23.340 no,

01:28:24.120 it's wrong.

01:28:24.820 And I'm not going to go down this route.

01:28:26.060 Don't allow them to frame it.

01:28:26.500 Look where your ideas have got it.

01:28:28.960 You know,

01:28:29.660 trapping 101 in the debate

01:28:31.560 is frame your opponent.

01:28:33.040 Just don't allow your opponent

01:28:34.960 to frame you.

01:28:35.480 Yeah.

01:28:36.060 Well,

01:28:36.260 this is what,

01:28:37.000 you know,

01:28:37.600 that recent clip

01:28:38.900 from LBC with Ian Dale

01:28:41.040 where he accused that woman

01:28:42.220 of being a dinosaur.

01:28:43.340 Yeah,

01:28:43.460 you're the dinosaur.

01:28:44.220 It's like,

01:28:44.540 right. 1.00

01:28:45.020 And he's totally ignorant. 1.00

01:28:46.580 So like, 1.00

01:28:47.080 Ian,

01:28:47.300 we've been living in the world

01:28:48.460 of men like you

01:28:49.420 our entire life.

01:28:50.820 You are the one

01:28:51.600 that's out of date.

01:28:52.380 LBC is like the prime example of this

01:28:54.380 because it's set up in such a way.

01:28:56.400 And this is the case

01:28:57.000 for in-guest studios as well

01:28:58.420 as I have been in the past

01:28:59.900 where the host is like,

01:29:02.040 you know,

01:29:02.180 behind this big desk

01:29:03.140 and they've got all screens

01:29:04.020 and headphones on

01:29:04.840 and they've got producers

01:29:05.720 whispering in their ear

01:29:06.640 and,

01:29:07.240 you know,

01:29:07.360 giving them statistics

01:29:08.100 and doing research for them.

01:29:09.180 And then either as a guest

01:29:10.440 or as a caller,

01:29:11.320 I mean,

01:29:11.520 even more so

01:29:12.200 if you're just a normal person

01:29:13.140 calling in,

01:29:14.020 you are at this,

01:29:14.900 you know,

01:29:15.220 sort of structural disadvantage

01:29:16.540 where you're just a person talking

01:29:17.840 and they are actually,

01:29:18.980 what you're actually talking to

01:29:19.980 is the gallery

01:29:20.600 who are doing research,

01:29:21.480 who are pulling up statistics,

01:29:22.320 you've got screens in front of you

01:29:23.700 and all this sort of thing.

01:29:24.640 And so it's set up

01:29:25.500 to make the interlocutor 1.00

01:29:26.860 look like a fool 0.99

01:29:27.520 and it's designed 1.00

01:29:29.120 to create these clips

01:29:30.120 which they think

01:29:30.720 make them look good

01:29:31.360 where Ian Dale is saying,

01:29:32.600 oh,

01:29:32.720 you sound like a dinosaur

01:29:33.740 when actually he is the,

01:29:35.080 you know,

01:29:35.260 he is the out of touch one

01:29:36.300 in the room.

01:29:37.640 Indeed.

01:29:38.160 There's just one question here

01:29:39.280 for you as we wrap up,

01:29:40.620 Charlie.

01:29:41.200 For Charlie,

01:29:41.900 is there anything

01:29:42.460 we in the United States

01:29:44.160 can do to support

01:29:45.460 Restore Britain? 0.67

01:29:46.280 Yeah,

01:29:46.420 well,

01:29:46.600 I believe that we are

01:29:47.840 accepting memberships

01:29:48.960 from overseas

01:29:49.720 if you care about

01:29:50.520 the future of Britain,

01:29:51.200 if perhaps you are an expat

01:29:52.500 or you have ancestry

01:29:53.740 in this country,

01:29:54.580 you're welcome to join.

01:29:55.860 I don't know

01:29:57.040 if that's going to continue

01:29:58.020 to be the case.

01:29:58.720 I'm not totally sure on that

01:30:00.900 because there have been

01:30:01.420 conversations about that.

01:30:02.960 But no,

01:30:03.300 I mean,

01:30:03.520 follow us on X,

01:30:04.340 engage with our stuff,

01:30:05.800 send us some cash.

01:30:07.320 I mean,

01:30:07.440 that doesn't hurt.

01:30:09.480 And yeah,

01:30:10.240 just support us.

01:30:11.240 And if there's anybody

01:30:12.000 that,

01:30:12.600 you know,

01:30:12.720 if you've got

01:30:14.080 British friends

01:30:14.980 who live in the United Kingdom,

01:30:16.260 tell them about us

01:30:17.020 and encourage them

01:30:17.960 to join as well.

01:30:19.040 All right.

01:30:19.380 Well,

01:30:19.720 Charlie,

01:30:20.020 thank you for coming in today.

01:30:20.900 Thanks,

01:30:21.120 chaps.

01:30:21.420 Always a pleasure.

01:30:22.180 Guesting and Stelios,

01:30:23.460 good to have you back.

01:30:24.600 All right.

01:30:25.240 We'll see you at 1pm

01:30:26.660 for the podcast tomorrow,

01:30:28.060 ladies and gentlemen.

01:30:28.980 Have a nice evening.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - July 23, 2025

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1214

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