In Episode 1234, we discuss the closure of the Bell Hotel in Epping, the impact of the High Court ruling blocking asylum seekers from being housed there, and the Met Police preparing for Notting Hill Carnival this weekend.
00:02:02.000There was something quite nice, actually, about waking up and seeing that The Guardian had posted saying that Labour's plans are in turmoil after the Epping Hotel was blocked from housing the illegal migrants as well within this hotel.
00:02:21.000So we're going to go through this story.
00:02:24.000We'll read some from The Guardian as well.
00:07:45.000I think it's important to remember, as well, that without people on the ground, the concerned mothers, fathers,
00:07:54.000people that came out in Epping, the local community, this wouldn't have happened, I don't think.
00:08:00.000And we can go through, because there is a tweet that explains a bit more about why this particular hotel has been, is closing down because of this.
00:08:12.000But I think it is important to not only say about the local people that have come out in support, but also the citizen journalists and journalists that were going to these protests to consistently film them, consistently show, listening to the people.
00:08:32.000And there's been a real big insurgence of citizen journalists that have been there.
00:08:35.000Adam Brooks, he was there pretty much nearly every protest.
00:08:41.000I mean, he tried to make it out for most of the time for nearly every protest and was there asking people their concerns, talking to people, which the legacy media never will do, never does.
00:08:54.000And if they do, it's a particular narrative and a spin.
00:08:58.000It's not, well, what is your concerns?
00:09:01.000And then going to the other side and asking, well, why are you here today?
00:09:23.000Because there's the angle you could say that, I mean, Carl Benjamin made a video just this morning, I think, on Daily Acad, where he talked about how it's good that there's this win, but it's also disappointing that it all boiled down to planning.
00:09:55.000But the thing is, if the people of Epping hadn't turned out like this, I bet a lot of money, I bet everything, that nothing would have happened at all.
00:10:19.000I feel like, I don't know about you chaps, but since 2020, like, you know, I came on to this journalist, reporter, whatever you want to call it, scene, media scene, alternative media scene.
00:10:30.000From the first thing I did was go out to a protest and an anti-lockdown protest and ask people like, why are you here?
00:10:37.000And I didn't actually, I wasn't sure what to think at the time because I was so brand new to it all.
00:10:41.000And I kind of was like, I'm not sure, but I went there and just, you know, ask people anyway, like, why, why are you here today?
00:10:48.000And what's fascinating about it all is the rise in citizen journalism, the rise in people actually going out there, because I don't know about you, gents, I felt like protesting didn't do much for the past, like, few years.
00:11:06.840Like a few, a few times we were kind of going, we've been out here for so long, nothing's been happening.
00:11:11.840I know there, there's this group in Ireland when I'm, when I went there a couple of months ago, and they had been 24 hours camping outside of a, a golf resort, um, because they turned that into a migrant accommodation and they camped out 24 hours a day and had done for nearly over a year.
00:11:32.840And I got to meet them and sit down and talk to them. And because it'd been a year on, they were sitting there going, nobody's listening to us. We feel like giving up, but we've come so far, but it shows that it forces the councils, especially to be put in a position where they have to look through any legal matter.
00:11:51.840When there's a will, there is a way, you know, um,
00:11:55.840different protests. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. I remember going on the anti Iraq war, Iraq war two, uh, rally in London, which was massive. Um, you know, quite often they say a million man March. Well, but this really was massive.
00:12:09.840When was that 2002, 2003 was it 2002 or 2003? I remember going on that and, uh, it did achieve nothing. Uh, Blair just essentially ignored it, just ignored it basically, but that was a one day thing. Um, so sometimes, uh, protesting absolutely doesn't work. Sometimes it does.
00:12:29.840Yeah. But are you gonna, are you gonna not do it? You know, what else can we do? And that's the annoying thing, right?
00:12:35.840I think of the sixties and the seventies, the, the lots and lots of protests in, in America about the Vietnam war.
00:12:42.840Yes. Yeah. So for years they were essentially ignored. Yeah. But eventually it made a difference. Yeah. Eventually essentially forced Nixon's hand in the end one way or another. If nothing else, if nothing else, it can move the narrative.
00:12:58.840Yeah. And now we live in the world of, of like the internet and Twitter and, uh, normal people journalists like Jack. Yes. In, uh, Sterling work. Yeah. Um, it's perhaps even more valuable than it used to be. Um, so I'll say, yeah, you may go on protest. You may go on protest for years and, and it never achieve anything. Yeah. But it might do though. It can do. Yeah. It certainly can do. Absolutely.
00:13:27.840So if it really matters, if it's, if it's a difference between losing your country or not, it's a difference between your children getting sexually assaulted or not. Why not?
00:13:38.840Yeah. Yeah. We, um, you mentioned about as well, uh, the reason why planning permission. Um, so this, I believe, uh, you sent me earlier actually. Um, and it was a journalist from, yeah, political editor from the times actually posted this. I just wanted to read it out. Uh, in the end, the bell hotel, the asylum hotel in Epping has been at the center of so much controversy, but it wasn't closed down because of protests, local fears or crime or disorder.
00:14:05.840I actually disagree with a lot of that, but we'll, we'll go with, we'll go with that for now. Uh, it, it came down to planning laws, specifically the town and countries planning law of 1987.
00:14:15.840Epping forest council argued and successfully that the owner of the hotel had failed to apply for planning permission for what was a quote, material change of use.
00:14:27.220Uh, what was once a venue used for weddings and conferences was turned over exclusively to, to the use of 138 male asylum seekers. Uh, the judge blocked attempts by the home office to intervene.
00:14:40.680Pretty based. Yeah. Um, arguing that it was not relevant in what was ostensibly a planning law or planning laws. Uh, it has significant repercussions.
00:14:52.360Other councils could use the precedent to apply for injunctions of their own. Uh, the home office thinks it could undermine the entire asylum hotel policy.
00:15:01.520So never underestimate planning regulations for once. I actually agree with red tape, you know, I'm so anti red tape, but in this instance, it's like, okay, well, that's actually helped.
00:15:12.480Well, if it's, it's, um, exactly as you say, if it, because look at the end of the day, the, um, like, for example, I remember when I went to Scampton last year, RS Scampton, where they were trying to put a house of eagles on the air base there.
00:15:28.140Yeah. And ultimately what it came down to was just that the local people were able to run down the clock until the time of the general election.
00:15:35.600And then labor got in and just scrapped the Tories plan. Right. So it was never about, you know, the, the government was never actually forced to address the fact that this was going to endanger the local people.
00:15:48.500It was never forced to address just the sheer immorality of the plan itself. It all, it all got bogged down in logistics and, uh, you know, there's the walls and there's bats living in there.
00:16:00.460Like, you know, so it's like, it's not suitable for the migrants. And this is what they are going to say, whatever they want to say. Right. But we, it doesn't matter whether we don't need to get them to agree for our moral reasoning for why we want them to get closed because they're never going to agree.
00:16:17.140Because if they did agree, they wouldn't be doing this to us in the first place. But what we can do is find the legal means to combat it. Yes. And the reasons are our, are our own. Right. And the reasons are perfectly good and moral. Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:31.620I agree. So it's like a win. We'll take it. It's a win. We'll take it. Of course. Yes. Um, but it's just sort of, it's, it feels a bit like something like a cheap win. Right. Or it feels like, um, it, but you're right because the government themselves will never accept the actual, the idea that multiculturalism itself is a disaster or something like that. Well, um, they'll never accept that. So we have to do this. Okay. And what's it's not, but it's not ideal.
00:17:01.600Is it? It's not really, we would like it. It would be best if the government actually accepted that putting 138 unvetted men right next to a school and at least two of them have committed violent crimes, that there's something wrong with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But for now, for the time being, it means it gets, hopefully that school of children in, you know, a much safer circumstance, which is a win. You know, it is entirely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
00:17:31.600as whilst some of us see it as a win, others do not see it as a win, weirdly. And, um, I wanted to play this clip, uh, from Zoe Gardner. Unfortunately, she has blocked me on X. So, you know, can't really, you know, reply properly. Um, I haven't watched this clip yet, but I thought I'd throw it in just, you know, for a bit of balance.
00:18:01.600Listen to her, listen to her take and see, you know, what she says.
00:18:06.240Well, who is she? I've never heard of her before.
00:18:09.580Well, according to her title, um, she's allegedly, uh, an asylum see, uh, asylum researcher. But, um, according to others that dug a bit deeper, like Charlotte Gill, for example, has found out she's actually just an activist.
00:18:24.140Um, so, yeah. And I think, uh, Guido, Guido Fawkes has, um, uh, mentioned that she's an activist as well. Uh, but we'll see what she says. It's not really working at the minute, but it's giving us.
00:18:39.020We'll move on. Whatever she said was so dumb that it broke out.
00:18:48.180Well, okay. So we'll move on from this. But according to this post, it says, quote, there were violent racist protests, people being terrorised who were living there. Um, and this, this person, Zoe, uh, was obviously on the BBC.
00:19:03.800I, I, I'm not sure if Ofcom are going to investigate that. I highly doubt it. Um, you know, for biased reasons, but yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath. Don't worry. We'll move on. Cause to be honest, I didn't really want to listen to it anyway.
00:19:17.200I just wanted to torture everyone else. So sorry about that.
00:19:21.360There's another thing. Um, the rhetoric is also dialed up, but from someone in particular, um, we can talk about, uh, Nigel Farage wrote an article.
00:19:32.340Um, yesterday at 7.50, it went out saying, Epping has shown the way to win. We must now detain and deport, uh, the thousands of illegal immigrants who have no business being in Britain.
00:20:23.100Um, so yes, the rhetoric has changed. Um, so that's interesting. But when we talk about what happens next, because that's the big question, right?
00:20:32.800This hotel has been closed down. Where do we go next? Um, our people are just going to be past the buck, you know, from hotel to hotel.
00:20:40.740And that's what people fear. I put out a video this morning and, you know, the main question was, yeah, it sounds great, but are people going to be past the buck?
00:20:50.520So let's just go through it and have a discussion. Jack posted this earlier, saying Broxbourne Council might soon follow Epping with their own injunction to close the Delta Marrier in Chestnut.
00:21:01.880Um, Chest Hunt, sorry. Um, as I wrote in the Critic Mag, uh, over two weeks ago, if one hotel like the Bell starts closing down, a quote, then everyone knows that peaceful, angry protests work.
00:21:13.700So there seems to be a chain reaction happening. And I see it as a good thing. So I don't want you guys to think, but in my opinion, people are saying, well, you're just passing it, but you're passing the buck.
00:21:26.000To be honest, I think if more, if more hotels decide to, or councils decide to go down this line, I think it will force the government's hand, the Home Office's hand to actually do something about it.
00:21:40.920Because let's be honest, morally, politically, they don't want to deport people. They're not interested, really, let's be honest, on the grand scheme of things.
00:21:49.060They're not interested in deporting illegal immigrants from the hotels. So by the councils enacting something similar, whether it be the planning permission, whether it be, um, other means, I see it as a personally a good thing.
00:22:04.880And it applies pressure. What do you guys think?
00:22:09.080Well, I, I do agree with you. I think that the other thing as well is that when you say, well, is it passing the buck on?
00:22:16.400Well, if enough people can be inspired by Epping, and as we've covered, you know, very recently on the podcast as well, you know, just how much these protests are spreading throughout the country, you know, many, many different hotels, many towns, many cities.
00:22:31.820If you can apply that pressure in each one and find the legal mechanism to basically invalidate its use as a hotel, on a large enough scale, theoretically, you could get to a point where you can't pass it anywhere, right?
00:22:50.760You pass them on to another one. Well, not if nowhere's willing to take them.
00:22:54.540The worry with that, of course, is that they all end up just getting put in, um, council houses, right?
00:23:02.060And then you're having to, you've not even got them all compact into one place now.
00:23:06.420Just scatter them even more because this is ultimately what it does come down to.
00:23:11.300You're quite right. They don't want to get rid of them.
00:23:14.320Do you know what I say? I say, because they're not going to deport, they're not going to deport them.
00:23:18.120This, this, this government aren't going to do that unless the hand is almost forced by, you know, um, a chain reaction of this.
00:23:25.240I say, um, Carla Denya, her constituents, maybe, maybe she could take more in because, you know, they believe diversity is a strength.
00:23:34.780They believe that, uh, you know, uh, that we should be, there isn't such a thing as borders, you know?
01:04:53.160But all of this is coinciding with an expansion of, as says here, the government are expanding police use of facial recognition vans, right?
01:05:38.920But it goes on to say that the Met Commissioner should scrap plans to deploy live facial recognition because the technology is riven with racial bias.
01:05:56.040Eleven civil liberty and anti-racist groups have demanded.
01:06:00.440And so they've written a letter to Sir Mark Rowley basically saying, look, you can't expect facial recognition to be used at this place where it's like, what do you think we all are, criminals?
01:06:15.340You think we're going to be up to no good?
01:06:16.940Well, something that might need to be said for people that are watching this that aren't from Great Britain, because a lot of our audience isn't, this carnival is largely for black people.
01:06:44.040So, so, classic is saying, you know, you use CCTV, London's one of the most heavily CCTV places in the whole world, and facial recognition, but not for black or brown people.
01:07:03.340Yeah, or, yeah, or just don't, just don't, year upon year, engage in sort of crazy levels of violence, where people lose their lives and tens or dozens of police officers are assaulted.
01:07:43.720Yeah, well, you know, it goes on to say, in a statement on Monday, the Metropolitan Police made it clear,
01:07:48.260they feel a twerk or rhythmic shake of the hips may distract or slow down the 7,000 officers deployed to the carnival from responding to outbreaks of crime.
01:07:58.920It's just, like, it's just utter madness.
01:10:44.520Because they could get away with it and you just trust the public are all going to be well behaved.
01:10:50.620But in these circumstances, with this demographic of people turning up to a carnival, no, you are focused, you are laser focused in all places and all times for two days straight.
01:11:03.940Don't you dare nod your head in time with the reggae.
01:11:07.120Because trouble could strike at any second.
01:11:23.560But in a stunning turn of events, the Metropolitan Police turned around and said, no, we are going to use the facial recognition system.
01:11:31.600So even though all those charities and pressure groups were anti-racist activists, were trying to make it the light.
01:11:38.340Well, where we know live facial recognition can help locate individuals that pose a safety risk to the many seeking to enjoy a carnival, it is entirely reasonable to ask, why shouldn't we use it?
01:11:52.540And obviously, there is another aspect to this as well.
01:11:55.560Again, as I say, I don't want a surveillance state.
01:11:58.680And for an English population, you don't really need one.
01:12:03.960But within this framework, I think that if you have the facial recognition system, one, that's going to ward away a lot of the worst people from Notting Hill Carnival, who were maybe already on databases for particular crimes.
01:12:20.440Right. So it might indirectly make things a little bit safer.
01:12:24.600So I'll be interested to see what happens this weekend, really.
01:12:30.280But the larger point that I was obviously just making with all of this is the fact that a carnival in England shouldn't take this amount of security.
01:12:42.560I completely agree with you and with what you said, Lewis.
01:12:44.480I find facial recognition science, yeah, it's really sort of a big brother, slippery slope, really sinister thing.
01:17:02.200But the thing is, Edward Snowden told us that everyone's camera in their laptop or your camera in your own phone, if they want to, the NSA or the GCHQ can just look at you through your own cameras.
01:17:42.320So Logan, 17 Pines, says, in Bowes, Britain, this carnival would be a day to celebrate the dear leader and his ending of the years of madness.