The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1289

00:00:00.000 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the podcast, The Lotus Eaters, for Wednesday,

00:00:03.680 the 5th of November, 2025. I'm John Vistelius and William Clauston from the Social Democrat Party,

00:00:10.520 the leader of the Social Democrat Party. And today we're going to be talking about what

00:00:14.580 the recent acquittal of Tommy Robinson has revealed to us about the nature of the police

00:00:19.840 and the state itself. How the BBC have been... Is it fabricating stories or is it just twisting

00:00:25.900 stories? No, fabricating. They have been caught red-handed. Really? Fabricating stories? Yeah, really this time.

00:00:32.280 And then we're going to end on a lighter note, which is the red pilling of Tom Swarbrick,

00:00:36.580 an LBC presenter, which has been very fun to watch. But before we begin, a $300 super chat

00:00:43.220 came in on Rumble yesterday from Blood for the Blood God, and because it was just after the

00:00:47.480 podcast had finished, obviously we couldn't say thank you, but we wanted to say thank you because

00:00:51.220 that's a hell of a generous donation, man. He says, here, money for ink stamp and mailing costs

00:00:55.640 along with the cost to move my coffin out of Dracula's castle. Well, thank you very much,

00:00:59.300 man. I really appreciate that. That's very, very generous and very kind of you. Anyway, right,

00:01:03.460 let's begin. So, you may remember back in July 2024 that Tommy Robinson was detained by the police

00:01:12.440 using powers afforded to them under the Terrorist Act 2000. The issue was apparently that Tommy Robinson

00:01:18.800 would not give them the pin to his phone because he had journalistic materials on there,

00:01:24.700 and he was worried about the integrity of these materials, and this made them arrest him and

00:01:30.420 detain him on these charges. Now, this has come through now as he's been cleared of not committing

00:01:37.060 a terror offence by refusing to give the police his pin number. And we're going to go through the

00:01:42.660 court document on this because this is actually really interesting. The nature of the police and

00:01:50.240 their opinion of him, which led to his detention and then charge under the Terrorist Act, because

00:01:55.960 it shows, I think, that the police are basically at war with Tommy Robinson. And this is essentially

00:02:03.280 what they have to admit and what the judge concludes through the actual thing, because there's just no

00:02:10.220 particular reason that they should have done this. Let's, in fact, let's go straight into it,

00:02:14.980 shall we? So this is, of course, written by the judge. And I'm not going to scroll through it,

00:02:21.200 just because otherwise I'll find myself losing my position. But I'm just going to read through it at

00:02:25.860 length. So he was charged on the 28th of July at the Channel Tunnel because he was going on holiday

00:02:32.120 to Benidorm, and you can drive there apparently, because he failed to provide the pin access code to

00:02:37.880 his mobile. And so they give us, you know, the unchallenged series of events, which is not that

00:02:45.860 interesting. But what they did is detained him, arrested him, and then held him for a period of

00:02:54.080 time while they were trying to find something on his background. So he was engaging with the

00:02:59.740 interview, but refused to provide his pin number. And so they say, you know, he's explained how you

00:03:04.760 failed to comply. If you failed to comply, you'd be committing an offence. And this was what they

00:03:11.820 used to then charge him under this legislation. And this is what has led to this judgment from

00:03:17.120 the judge. Now, what's interesting about this is that fundamentally, they seem to have actively

00:03:23.860 discriminated against Tommy, as far as the judge is concerned. The 2010 Equality Act provides legal

00:03:30.700 protection against protected characteristics, and one of those is philosophical beliefs.

00:03:36.420 And so the judge says, quote, protected characteristics include political beliefs.

00:03:40.760 As was identified in a previous example, there is critical difference between legitimate political

00:03:46.300 beliefs or activities in terrorism. The former is a protected characteristic and is fundamentally

00:03:50.580 important. And of course, terrorism is the use of serious violence aimed at influencing government

00:03:54.700 for a political cause. And so it follows if the purpose of the stop was simply to ask questions

00:03:59.760 about a person's legitimate political beliefs or activities, anything, rather than anything

00:04:04.100 related to terrorism, the issue of unlawful discrimination should be at the forefront of

00:04:07.880 the court's concerns. Because it seems that actually the Equality Act 2010 protects Tommy here.

00:04:15.260 I think that basically the process was the punishment and they wanted to make an example out of him.

00:04:20.240 You know what? I don't think it was that. I'll explain to you why. I mean, that's normally

00:04:24.340 what we would think, right? But actually, this doesn't seem to be a case of that, because that

00:04:29.580 would be applying far too much forward thinking to the police themselves. You're overestimating,

00:04:38.880 I think, their personal capacities.

00:04:40.100 Why didn't they know that? I mean, because I have sympathy with that process of the punishment

00:04:44.180 thing, and I think I can see it in other cases that I'm not going to talk about.

00:04:47.700 But I think that is it. And you look at, I mean, Pete North and other people being, you

00:04:53.080 get arrested and then you get let off. But the curious thing, and I haven't gone through

00:04:56.740 this in massive detail, but the curious thing is, it seems very clear decision. Why didn't

00:05:01.420 the police know this?

00:05:02.740 Well, the...

00:05:03.560 That's the question.

00:05:04.480 We'll get into it, right? So the question is, why did they even arrest him? Because he

00:05:08.480 was, he had his passport, he's going through the Channel Tunnel, he's going on holiday to

00:05:12.620 Benidorm. Why would he be stopped? Well, the answer is that the police recognize

00:05:17.680 Tommy. It was PC Thorogood, he's accredited, he's an accredited counter-terrorism officer,

00:05:22.840 again, just quoting from this. He gave general evidence how he identifies if someone should

00:05:26.620 be stopped under Schedule 7, checking documents identifying where they're traveling to and

00:05:30.040 from, blah, blah, blah, right? And so he observed a Bentley, which is a lovely car, a high-powered

00:05:35.140 vehicle, unusual with a lone driver. Is that unusual?

00:05:38.560 No.

00:05:39.000 Not really. Why would that be unusual? Oh my God, there's a man.

00:05:41.900 You can see lone drivers on the motorway.

00:05:43.900 All the time. This is not an unusual thing, right? But it says here, quote, he recognized

00:05:48.860 the driver as Stephen Lennon. He had a belief that it was Stephen Lennon before he stopped

00:05:52.460 him. He spoke to Stephen Lennon. He had concerns over his travel arrangements, traveling long

00:05:56.660 distance, and a vehicle not registered him. He'd borrowed his friend's car. Okay. His answers

00:06:01.480 were vague and short, and it was last minute booking to Benidorm in Spain. Suspicious as a long

00:06:05.860 distance in a car, which was not his, he pulled Stephen Lennon over for the checks.

00:06:09.400 But why? It's literally because he recognized him as Tommy Robinson. It's literally the only

00:06:15.880 reason he stops him. He used this power under Schedule 7, which is from the Terrorism Act.

00:06:21.440 That's pretty extreme. Oh, I've seen Tommy Robinson. I'm going to invoke the Terrorism Act

00:06:27.680 now. But he's never been charged with any terrorism, or has conducted any terrorism, as far as I'm

00:06:33.100 aware. But this, just to be clear, this isn't really about Tommy Robinson either. This is really

00:06:37.320 about these police. He took him to the examination suite, and Tommy took out his phone and tried

00:06:43.820 to send a message and video to the officers. He was given a leaflet explaining Schedule 7

00:06:47.840 and public information, and he was read out his rights. When asked to search for the phone,

00:06:51.420 Tommy refused to provide the pin, citing generalistic material, and the rest of the officers'

00:06:56.140 evidence dealt with Lennon's arrest in interviews. So we are a literal papers-please society, if the

00:07:00.980 police just feel like it. Oh, I recognize you from the TV. I've seen a negative write-up

00:07:07.180 of you on the BBC. Oh, okay, papers-please.

00:07:10.440 Yeah, that's to be a reason. But it's interesting to look at what actually happened as well,

00:07:14.820 because it's almost sort of farcical.

00:07:17.080 Oh, yeah.

00:07:17.460 You get arrested, and then to defeat it, you invoke equality and human rights legislation,

00:07:24.260 which basically, everything is a protected case.

00:07:26.980 You know, actually, that's not what defeats this, although I think it probably does give

00:07:31.840 Tommy a legal recourse against these police officers. I mean, I'm not a legal expert or

00:07:36.680 anything, but I would definitely be speaking to a solicitor on this and saying, look, they

00:07:40.500 discriminated against me. Can I sue them? Am I entitled to something? Which he may well

00:07:43.980 be.

00:07:44.280 But that, again, it's the world we now live in. So the idea of people making allowances and

00:07:51.760 rubbing along without, you know, state arbitration constantly. And the state tries to arbitrate,

00:07:57.620 and then its own legislation is used to, yeah, it's...

00:08:02.760 It is kind of preposterous.

00:08:03.940 It is, yeah.

00:08:04.540 But so the question is then, well, when did PC... Sorry, go on. Did you want to...

00:08:08.860 Yeah, yeah. No, I just wanted to say that you can say on the one hand that everything is

00:08:12.800 a protected characteristic. On the other hand, you can twist this and say that everything

00:08:17.600 can be a threat to protected characteristics. I think that essentially he has been signaled.

00:08:25.560 No, he has been branded as public enemy from the top down. And he crossed the borders. So

00:08:32.600 probably they say, if he crossed the borders, just try to catch him off guard.

00:08:37.400 It seems that way. It seems that PC Thurgood literally just recognized him as Tommy Robinson

00:08:41.640 for enemy.

00:08:43.380 It's fairly weak.

00:08:44.040 Yeah.

00:08:44.500 And I have to now intercede under terrorism legislation.

00:08:49.100 PC Thurgood accepted that once you started asking questions to decide if someone was a

00:08:52.780 terrorist, that starts the Schedule 7 examination. However, in relation to Mr. Lennon, the officer

00:08:57.900 could not remember when he started the examination under Schedule 7. So he didn't... Oh, no, he's

00:09:02.740 got a bomb or something. So I'm going to inquire... No. He just... That's Tommy Robinson.

00:09:07.360 I'm going to start interviewing him. When did the terrorism interview start? Well, I don't...

00:09:11.040 I don't know. I just saw Tommy Robinson. And therefore I acted because I felt like I had

00:09:15.720 to act in defense of the current regime. He was aware of Stephen Lennon and the officer

00:09:19.980 accepted that he directed Stephen Lennon to park his car behind the booth for 22 minutes

00:09:23.380 when he was asked about various things. But when asked what power he was using to detain

00:09:29.380 Tommy, the officer said he did not know at that stage.

00:09:33.480 You almost feel sorry for the police sometimes, don't you? But I mean, I know not many people

00:09:37.240 watching this.

00:09:37.700 Yeah, I don't particularly know.

00:09:39.560 But you see the immediate confusion here, right? And this deep ideological confusion.

00:09:45.260 The officer's like, oh, there is a person who has been marked as an enemy of their regime.

00:09:49.360 It's Tommy Robinson, the bad man. Oh, I've seen him. I should do something about that.

00:09:53.600 Okay, under what power? I don't know. Are you doing a terrorist? I don't know yet. I just

00:09:59.180 haven't...

00:09:59.540 We'll have to find out later.

00:10:00.760 Exactly. But the problem is, we actually are not a tyrannical dictatorship yet. We are

00:10:07.960 at the point where he still has legal rights. And so the officer's like, I don't know what

00:10:13.280 I'm doing here, actually. It was put to PC Thurgood that appears from the CCTV footage

00:10:18.880 that it took him 34 seconds to decide this. And it's like, right, so that was really,

00:10:23.960 really quick, wasn't it? Oh, it's Tommy. Right, yeah, no, definitely. 34 seconds. How

00:10:27.880 much actual conversation can you get done in 34 seconds? So it's instant. I saw Tommy

00:10:32.880 and I realized enemy and therefore I had to take some action. What action did you take?

00:10:36.660 I don't know. I don't know what I was doing. I just knew I had to act. This priming and

00:10:42.840 triggering of... If you think the police officers are somehow immune to propaganda

00:10:48.840 or somehow very rational people, this is showing us that they are just not. This person acted

00:10:55.700 on instinct because he saw Tommy. Or may I say another thing? Maybe right now they are

00:11:02.960 trying to blame their specific officer and try... It's not just this one officer.

00:11:08.160 Yeah, but it's not just an issue of officers. No, I agree. I agree. And I think that the

00:11:14.340 leadership will try to allocate blame or deflect blame. I don't disagree. The fish has rotted

00:11:21.200 from the head here, obviously. But the issue is all of the officers were basically of one

00:11:25.880 mind on this. It was just PC Thorogood who began the thing. So the officer said that checks

00:11:32.000 needed to be made but could not specify under what power he was detaining Stephen Lennon at

00:11:35.260 this stage. Again, he just recognized Tommy was an enemy. So Tommy was detained for over

00:11:39.200 an hour while these checks were made. And the officers themselves seemed to be unaware that

00:11:43.580 he was just detained for this amount of time. He accepted that after about 22 minutes, he'd

00:11:50.080 decided to detain him but wasn't exactly sure what the criteria was. And so he performed a series

00:11:59.700 of checks and he felt that certain criteria had been met. But he had learned nothing from

00:12:06.500 the checks and the partner agencies who they used to do these checks. But he made the decision

00:12:11.960 to detain as it would take more than an hour, seemingly unaware that he'd been detained for

00:12:17.220 about 40 minutes at this point already. And then when asked about this, PC Thorogood seems

00:12:21.420 to have no memory of these events. As if these are genuine, like, NPCs operating on autopilot,

00:12:28.100 right? As the judge says, the officer was shown video of Stephen Lennon's vehicle next to the

00:12:32.120 booth and Stephen Lennon being handed a piece of paper. The officer was asked if this was the

00:12:36.280 public information leaflet that they're supposed to give them. But he could not recall. PC Thorogood

00:12:40.480 was asked about his comment that Stephen Lennon was giving short, vague answers. The officer

00:12:43.960 accepted that the only question he can remember asking is where Stephen Lennon was going. He

00:12:48.300 could not recall what other questions he had asked Stephen Lennon. When challenged on the

00:12:52.620 officer's concerns over Stephen Lennon's travel to Benidorm, he did not know how often he

00:12:57.600 traveled to Benidorm, but then accepted the checks were made on his passage through the border

00:13:00.500 and accepted that he goes to Benidorm a lot, but just not through the Channel Tunnel. The officer

00:13:04.680 knew that the EDL was no longer prominent. The officer was asked what questions he asked Stephen Lennon

00:13:09.160 that were not just relating to his political views. He could not recall. He interviewed

00:13:13.440 him to the best of his abilities, but accepted before his examination that he was unaware if

00:13:17.440 Lennon had ever been linked to terrorism. So, what are you doing? There's nothing here.

00:13:24.240 It sounds like the officer's walking through a foggy mist in his own mind. So, oh yeah,

00:13:29.000 no, I must have asked him something. I don't really remember just where he's going. I'm just

00:13:33.100 I'm just a babe in the woods. What are you doing?

00:13:36.240 I know. And then they're complaining about the quality of the answers or the shortness

00:13:39.580 of them. Yeah, absolutely. Presumably you're not obliged to say anything anyway.

00:13:42.980 Absolutely not, but apparently he did answer. Presumably because he wasn't actually doing

00:13:47.120 anything wrong, especially not terrorism. The other officers don't seem to have any idea

00:13:50.740 either. There was one PC Stride there who also recognized Tommy Robinson and his affiliation

00:13:56.840 to the EDL. In cross-examination, he accepted that he knew Tommy Robinson from the media.

00:14:01.140 So, the police officer was like, yeah, I've seen him in the papers. I've seen him being

00:14:05.560 represented as an enemy to me repeatedly. He stated his memory was vague in terms of recalling

00:14:11.680 why Steven Lennon had been stopped, other than that he'd bought a ticket on arrival and it

00:14:15.180 was not his vehicle. Okay, but is that illegal? Is that a crime? When challenged about the statement,

00:14:20.360 I'm aware he moves in the, he made the statement, I'm aware he moves in the spheres of and has links

00:14:25.420 to organizations that have been labeled far right or extreme far right. But when challenged

00:14:30.180 on this, he stated that he could not remember.

00:14:32.040 But that's a protected characteristic, isn't it?

00:14:34.000 Exactly. Just because someone is far right.

00:14:36.640 You can't, yeah.

00:14:38.340 It's supposed to be.

00:14:39.800 It's strange.

00:14:40.420 And it shows us that this is an expressly political, so what is effectively the police

00:14:47.080 acting as a Gestapo here on behalf of the liberal order who has denoted that Tommy Robinson, he's

00:14:52.980 far right. Oh, far right means enemy. And oh, I saw the enemy driving past. Well, we better

00:14:58.160 arrest him under what power. I don't know. I don't know what my legal case is here, but

00:15:02.740 I've been told by the powers that be that far right is bad, and therefore I should go

00:15:08.260 and get him because he's been labeled as far right. When asked of what questions were asked

00:15:13.040 of Stephen Lennon about terrorist activity, PC Stride said he could not recall or remember.

00:15:17.180 Oh, right. So you don't remember either. Just you're in a brain fog too. Just wandering around

00:15:21.320 with no information about what you're personally doing, enforcing the tyranny of the state.

00:15:26.380 And then you have PS Farmer, who was also involved in this. He knew Stephen Axley Lennon

00:15:31.960 from his notoriety. He was responsible for supervising PC Thorogood. So you have a supervisor

00:15:37.060 there who's also like, yeah, no, of course, that's the bad man. That's the enemy of the

00:15:40.800 state. He was advised the reason for the stop was due to Lennon's behavior. But what behavior

00:15:47.280 has he done? He was driving along and you spotted him. He was told that he had concerns

00:15:52.800 about Stephen Lennon's links to far right. Right. So it's an expressly political concern.

00:15:57.280 Oh, there's a far right person there. They're not committing a crime. And as we point out

00:16:02.000 that the Equality Act, that's actually a legally protected characteristic. He accepted the EDL

00:16:06.580 was disbanded in 2014, but the ideology was still present. Right. So the police are now experts

00:16:10.820 on ideology, are they?

00:16:12.220 Well, you can't. I mean, we're in enough trouble, aren't we, Carl, without this?

00:16:19.640 I don't think the police can even define ideology. So yeah, you're, I mean, there's things you

00:16:24.560 can say and there's things you can't. But literally, it's just, oh, the ideology is still

00:16:28.800 present. Therefore, we had to... They want the ideology to be illegal, really.

00:16:33.640 Some of these people. That's precisely what it is. And they're acting as if the ideology

00:16:38.060 itself is illegal. And yet, so when they arrive, they've arrested him. What for? I don't

00:16:44.800 know, actually.

00:16:45.780 I still think it's an issue of making an example out of him. Because when people like Tommy are

00:16:53.760 talking about things, it's sort of contagious.

00:16:56.780 Sure.

00:16:57.060 Many other people start doing it as well. And when this happens, most probably their background

00:17:02.600 is going to tell them, we don't want this to happen to you. We don't want this to happen

00:17:06.700 in the family or something. Don't do it. So it's, they are trying to sort of...

00:17:12.800 Make an example.

00:17:14.660 Make an example, but also lower the speed, decrease the speed in which this rhetoric is

00:17:21.300 catching.

00:17:21.640 And I would agree with you. If they were responding to something Tommy had posted on Twitter and

00:17:25.400 they went to his house and then arrested him and then took him down to the station or something

00:17:28.540 like that. But that's not what happened. What happened is they spotted him going past.

00:17:31.980 I'm like, oh, right. That's the bad person. We have to grab him, even though we've got

00:17:35.300 literally no reason to grab him.

00:17:37.780 They kept him.

00:17:38.240 It's not that they cat caught him and released him because they said, okay, we don't have

00:17:44.760 anything.

00:17:45.460 I'm not saying that they aren't taking action against him or anything like that. The point

00:17:52.180 is this was spontaneous for them. This wasn't them.

00:17:55.100 It does seem very odd because they usually would, there's a breach of the law in some

00:17:59.740 way. Then we act on it. We have something specific to say. It's very alarming though when

00:18:03.700 you get to, if we're headed to a, and it is totalitarian.

00:18:06.320 Politically polarized police.

00:18:07.800 Yeah. But it was one stage saying, well, you have opinions that I don't like. The next

00:18:12.380 stage is I'll turn up to your house and look at your bookshelves and say, what are you

00:18:14.980 reading?

00:18:15.580 And that's basically it. Yeah. And that's happened.

00:18:18.720 Yeah, that's happened.

00:18:19.360 That's actually happened.

00:18:19.980 Because what this shows us is the police are politically polarized.

00:18:22.560 Yes.

00:18:22.740 They are, they are the political arm of a particular kind of philosophy that controls

00:18:27.580 the state. And so there's, there's no question of neutrality or objectivity here. This is expressly

00:18:33.380 political. He carries on. He says he knew who the PS farmer knew who Stephen Lennon was

00:18:37.820 because of his notoriety. He was questioned about knowing about Islamophobia and the continuing

00:18:42.580 ideology, apparently. And he explained that this was all public knowledge. So it's like,

00:18:46.720 right. So you've been told he is a bad person because he's Islamophobic and therefore somehow

00:18:50.680 he's a reject, a threat to why I guess it's an Islamic regime that we run in this country.

00:18:55.900 And so he, when he was asked to explain the delay in the stop of detention and PS farmer

00:19:00.080 was unable to give any clear evidence about how long he was held at the booths for being

00:19:04.220 moved to the holding bail, how long the checks took. We don't know. We just took him, held

00:19:09.780 him, and then it carried on. So the summary from the judge here, it's just really remarkable,

00:19:14.620 really remarkable. It's such a damning indictment of the political nature of our state,

00:19:18.120 right? So the judge says, in summary, Mr. William Casey submitted on behalf of Stephen

00:19:22.780 Lennon that the exercise of the Schedule 7 powers of the examination were not in accordance

00:19:26.580 with the statutory purpose and therefore unlawful. No questions asked by the police officers were

00:19:30.520 exercised for the purposes of determining whether Stephen Lennon appeared to be a terrorist.

00:19:34.380 The reasons advanced for selection and for examination do not stand up to scrutiny.

00:19:38.400 Secondly, the examination of detention were exercised in respect of a protected characteristic

00:19:42.180 and therefore unlawful. It was submitted that Stephen Lennon's political beliefs and activities

00:19:46.720 had a significant influence on the decision to exercise Schedule 7 powers. The test is whether

00:19:52.300 the prosecution have proved that to the criminal standard that its political beliefs did not have

00:19:56.380 a significant influence on the decision to exercise Schedule 7 powers. Thirdly, the exercise of the

00:20:01.340 powers were not necessary or proportionate. And finally, the ongoing detention was not being

00:20:06.160 conducted in accordance with the statutory framework, albeit these submissions strictly do not

00:20:10.360 arise consideration. Blah, blah, blah. So the judge's like, this shouldn't have happened.

00:20:14.940 What you did was unlawful. It was actually discriminatory against him. And you have made

00:20:18.840 no case as to why you should have done this. And yet you did this anyway. And so he says,

00:20:23.940 I find it concerning that the officers have no real recollection of questions asked of you.

00:20:28.360 I found this unhelpful and it did not assist me in being able to make any proper determination of

00:20:32.580 what was in the mind of PC Thorogood at the time when he made the initial decision to stop you,

00:20:36.820 especially after such a short period of time, and therefore the unexplained delays while you were

00:20:41.760 stopped at the booth. This evidence does not assist me in making a finding that the true and

00:20:46.600 dominant purpose for stopping you was in accordance with Schedule 7 and the appropriate selection

00:20:50.880 criteria. So again, the judge is like, yeah, they just saw the political enemy. I'm like,

00:20:55.340 oh, we need to, like, like they are Soviet commissars.

00:20:57.800 Do something.

00:20:58.620 Yeah, do something about the political enemy. The regime needs you to protect it.

00:21:03.480 Other than the security background checks, which revealed nothing according to the officers,

00:21:06.660 I find that all three officers seemed fundamentally unclear about what was happening during that

00:21:11.280 period of time. I think that's a real concern, isn't it?

00:21:14.720 But it does, the whole, the statement that you're reading, another thing that it, apart from the

00:21:19.100 actual detail, another thing that it reveals is just another part of the state being completely

00:21:23.700 incompetent. And we shouldn't be surprised. This is a state that releases people by mistake,

00:21:29.000 can't do some of the basics and border controls. It's everywhere. So are we surprised it's in the

00:21:34.240 police as well? No. If this was one police officer, you might be like, yeah, okay, that guy's

00:21:37.320 incompetent. But it's him, his partner and his supervisor. Yes. Who are all there at the

00:21:41.200 same time. Oh yeah, that is Tommy Robinson. And what I think about this is, I think this

00:21:46.180 is basically ideological programming, right? They've been primed ideologically to feel that

00:21:51.160 they have to be in confrontation with someone who gets denoted as far.

00:21:56.920 We see this in other, so there's this, we see this in other domains all the time. We've seen

00:22:00.840 it for a long time. So I'm going to do a sharp turn. News night over the last 10 years. Most

00:22:05.800 of the people interviewing people, most of the people are liberal progressives. And any,

00:22:10.080 when Rod Liddell's on us, I mean, they have, they feel it necessary to show their allegiance

00:22:14.200 to their tribe by interjecting, by being rude, by being unfair. And they've done that. It's

00:22:20.360 nothing to do with journalism. We're finding anything out. It happens all the time. It happens

00:22:23.640 all the time. It happened the other day. So, and Matt Goodwin had it. So, and it's a way

00:22:27.520 of them. Patrolling the frontier. Patrolling it. And so it's the same

00:22:32.480 thing, isn't it? Exactly. And it's the, but the point is, it's ideological, right? So

00:22:36.340 it's entirely drawing a distance between the two things. Yeah. So these three officers

00:22:42.220 were like, oh, right, that's Tommy Robinson. We know we have an obligation, a moral obligation

00:22:46.020 to do something about the far right. It's a bad one. And now they've arrested him. And

00:22:49.320 they're like, okay, why have we arrested him? Are we in trouble now? Like, what are we

00:22:52.900 doing? Like there's, there's actually, and the whole thing just evaporates into air. It's

00:22:56.580 like, what are you doing? That's a great question. And so again, the fact that the

00:23:01.580 officers are fundamentally unclear about what's happening is one of those things where it's

00:23:05.840 like, they, they have the moral impulse. It's like the bad person. We are crusaders against

00:23:10.060 the bad people. And now you've got him. It's like, okay, what are we doing? Can anyone explain

00:23:14.660 our behavior from now in the last hour? And they're like, no, I don't know what I was

00:23:19.200 saying. You can see, it's kind of like this, this illusion or this mist that descends over

00:23:23.620 them. And so suddenly they're not really in control of their own actions. And it feels

00:23:27.800 very much like, again, something out of the 20th century.

00:23:30.340 It's the Soviet.

00:23:31.380 It's very Soviet.

00:23:33.040 That's the, that's the best analogy. Anyone that's familiar with that.

00:23:37.620 Yeah. Yeah. He carries on and explains, you know, the judge finds it troubling that PC

00:23:43.140 Thurgood had already identified you as the driver as you approached and he knew who you

00:23:46.480 were. This gave the impression of an arbitrary stop for who you are and your beliefs rather

00:23:50.580 than the selection criteria. Yeah. It's because that's exactly what it was. I saw, I saw the

00:23:55.440 bad man. And so I arrested the bad man. What else was I supposed to do? I've been primed

00:24:00.920 by the political indoctrination that I've had from probably his entire career that the bad

00:24:06.040 man is bad.

00:24:06.880 It's so unsound. So yeah, I'll give you a throw in another thing. So on the basis of your

00:24:10.660 beliefs, okay, people change their beliefs. So if you, if you've done a particular thing

00:24:15.580 that the police arrest you for, that's, you can understand this. If you're arresting people

00:24:20.360 for driving around and saying, I think that what Tommy Robinson could have said, actually

00:24:23.660 he said, hi, I'm actually a liberal Democrat now. I've joined the liberal Democrats. I'm,

00:24:27.520 I'm, I've totally changed my beliefs. I've read a book and so it's totally unstable.

00:24:31.960 It absolutely. But it's also about political designation. And essentially what they're

00:24:35.520 accusing him of is a thought crime because of course British crime is, is based on action.

00:24:39.980 It's about what you've done, not about having beliefs that fly in the face of state

00:24:44.400 orthodoxy. But that's what these police are doing. And this isn't, this is insane.

00:24:48.440 This is absolutely insane. PC, PS Farmer gave evidence that he was told by PC

00:24:52.700 Thurgood, they had concerns about your links to the far right. Okay, but what does that

00:24:56.080 mean? What does that mean? It means these literally ideological problems that you're

00:25:01.160 not allowed to actually, you're actually legally prevented from discriminating against

00:25:05.140 them. So anyway, apparently these observations, he think the judge thinks applies to all of

00:25:09.720 these police. He found that PC Farmer's reviews of your detention lack rigor in terms of

00:25:14.120 maintaining confidence, that your continued detention was necessarily proportionate, that

00:25:18.140 he never sought representations from you about your continued detention and more concerning,

00:25:21.760 he never explored with the examining officers what questions and topics were being covered

00:25:25.180 during the examination. And he had no recollection of what those questions or topics were.

00:25:29.480 So it's just the misty, oh, he's Tommy Robinson. That's it. That's all they need.

00:25:33.600 I cannot put it out of my mind that it was actually what you stood for in your beliefs that acted as

00:25:38.240 the principal reason for the stop and acted as a significant influence on PC Thurgood's

00:25:42.380 thinking and decision making. Obviously true. But this is a real problem. This speaks to a much

00:25:47.700 deeper rot in the institution itself that has been thoroughly politically polarized to the point

00:25:53.300 where these three officers can together agree, oh, that is the bad man. We have to arrest this

00:25:58.280 political criminal.

00:25:58.960 In many states around the world, authoritarian states and totalitarian states, that is sufficient.

00:26:05.000 That will happen all the time. I'll just pick you up. But in this state, if you're treating

00:26:10.360 citizens on a par and on the rule of law, it can't happen.

00:26:13.600 So that, you know.

00:26:14.260 Which shows you that the laws themselves are formally the sort of neutral laws that we came

00:26:19.420 to expect. The people enforcing them are as ideologically partisan as any Soviet commissar

00:26:25.580 or Gestapo.

00:26:26.400 Well, I think two-tier policing of demonstrations and large groups proves it and everyone knows

00:26:31.600 it.

00:26:31.780 At least it's a good thing that the judge yielded the verdict.

00:26:35.740 Absolutely.

00:26:36.600 At least, at least.

00:26:37.540 We have to say this.

00:26:38.300 Yeah, absolutely. At least this judge is like, well, look, I just can't see what he had done

00:26:42.200 wrong. And this seems to be expressly political. There's no, no allegation of terrorism in this

00:26:49.760 against Tommy Robinson. And so, and he says, you know, the, the, none of this is born out of

00:26:56.920 the evidence from the officers because they don't have any. And so he says, I must, I

00:27:00.880 must address two questions. Namely, what was the purpose of the stop? And what was the

00:27:05.400 statutory purpose set out in the terrorism act? And the answer to the first question is

00:27:11.440 based on the officer's evidence, I can't be sure. And the answer to the second question

00:27:15.000 is based on the evidence that the protected characteristic appears to have been a significant

00:27:19.400 influence on their thinking. So this is in, in British law, this is no different saying

00:27:24.800 I arrested him because he was black. Yeah, that's no difference whatsoever. And so they

00:27:29.640 literally discriminated against Tommy Robinson because he was Tommy Robinson. That's what the

00:27:33.940 judge has come to the conclusion of. And so obviously the judge is like, well, in light of

00:27:37.140 these findings, uh, the prosecution has therefore failed to satisfy me. So I am sure that there was

00:27:41.720 no, uh, failed to satisfy that I can be sure that there was no unlawful discrimination. So the judge

00:27:46.900 is basically saying this was unlawful discrimination. And based on that, if the decision to stop and

00:27:50.700 examine you is not in accordance with the statutory purpose, it is not lawful. And so I can't

00:27:54.660 convict you. And therefore I found you not guilty, which is good for Tommy. I mean, obviously,

00:27:58.000 but it'd be interesting to see what happens now, because if you missed his ferry, then

00:28:01.080 he's got a claim. Well, I mean, it's right there. I, I, I had no idea, but I would definitely

00:28:07.000 inquire with a lawyer, a solicitor, do I have a case here that I was discriminated against

00:28:12.460 arbitrarily by these police? Because it seems that he was, uh, and yet look how the BBC published

00:28:19.840 this far right activist, Tommy Robinson found not guilty of terror offense. That's the kind of

00:28:25.520 reporting that made these police politically primed to see him as just an evil enemy. The,

00:28:32.680 the designation far right is what they've used to see, oh, right. I see the far right person,

00:28:38.340 right. We'll get him. It's like, okay, but what has he done? And the answer is nothing. Like a normal

00:28:42.680 reporting would be like the terrors, uh, the telegraph. Tommy Robinson's been found not guilty

00:28:46.560 for terror offense. Yeah. Okay. That's perfectly normal. And, uh, sorry, I've gone on a bit long

00:28:50.640 on this one, but, uh, I asked Tommy for a response to this. And so he sent me a quick response that

00:28:55.040 we'll play. So how do I feel after today? Should I feel happy? I should feel happy. I don't feel

00:29:02.300 happy. I feel angry. I feel angry at the mainstream media because they sat on my trial. They watched it

00:29:08.760 for two days and everything that the judge just put in his verdict, they saw, but they didn't repeat.

00:29:14.200 They didn't report one part of it. They made it all about the car. He was driving. They made it

00:29:19.380 sound like there's this big criminal thing. He's driving this expensive car. They know whose car

00:29:24.360 it was. The police knew from the start whose car it was the receipt for the car, the logbook for the

00:29:30.260 car, the owner's written statement for the car. Everything was in the car. I was delivering it.

00:29:35.540 They knew that that they made a deal out of the money. They didn't investigate me over the money

00:29:39.500 because they knew where the money come from. There was no suspicion. There was nothing.

00:29:44.320 But the media made it all about that. When in reality, the police had admitted in evidence that

00:29:50.280 they had unlawfully detained me due to my political beliefs. But the media ignored that. They ignored

00:29:55.100 the fact that I was targeted by counterterrorism police because of my beliefs. They ignored all

00:30:00.680 that. And it frustrates me because if it wasn't for Ezra Levant, it wasn't for the alternative media,

00:30:05.620 the public would never have got that. I'm very grateful to the judge giving such a strong

00:30:09.400 judgment. Let me just see. Hold on.

00:30:11.520 No. Just checking because I want to see what Michelle Dewsbury says because she's one of the

00:30:17.520 only people I actually trust to give a fair representation of what happens on GB News.

00:30:23.060 So that's how I feel. It's gone over one minute. Sorry, Carl. Frustrated, I feel. Still frustrated.

00:30:31.200 Frustrated with what they've been allowed to do time and time again.

00:30:33.320 Frustrated that in October 2026, I face another trial. And that next trial, I face 10 years in

00:30:39.880 prison. And it's more of this nonsense. And it's continued. And the process is the punishment.

00:30:47.760 I should be happy. I'm happy and I'm grateful to Elon Musk for helping me be in a position to fight

00:30:52.200 and we fight on. My mum's going to get some salmon. So that's his response. And I don't blame him for

00:30:59.740 not actually being overjoyed by this. Because obviously, this is incredibly frustrating from

00:31:04.660 his point of view. But what this shows us is just the police themselves are just as receptive to

00:31:10.500 this kind of propagandizing as anyone else. And they will act on it. And they are the people with

00:31:16.740 the powers. So anyway, we'll leave that there.

00:31:19.300 We will have a lot to say about the BBC.

00:31:22.020 Yeah.

00:31:22.440 Thomas takes your view on the process being the punishment. And I think there's a lot

00:31:26.060 in that.

00:31:26.960 I think that assumes a kind of self-awareness that these police didn't demonstrate. That's

00:31:32.300 the thing. I think these people acted. In fact, they reacted rather than had a conscious

00:31:37.620 plan.

00:31:38.400 Yeah.

00:31:38.900 No, no.

00:31:39.160 Sorry, quick thing. Samson, the AC's gone off again. Do you mind turning it on for us,

00:31:42.460 please? I think you're correct about this. I'm not saying you're not. What I'm referring

00:31:49.820 to mostly is him not being released for so long. That's what I think constitutes the process

00:31:57.920 of punishment.

00:31:58.900 I agree. This looks spontaneous. But in general, there's a lot of...

00:32:02.320 Yeah. I'm not denying that there is a lot of understanding from the bureaucrats who themselves

00:32:07.560 are getting politically polarized. DP Audit says he's back. The lads have held the fort. I'm

00:32:11.380 glad to hear that. How often are people traveling to and from Muslim countries detained and

00:32:15.860 interrogated for links to terrorism? I have my suspicions. I don't know. PC, not so

00:32:21.000 Thurrogate, forgot to think this through. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Like, the

00:32:24.640 whole thing was just clearly impulsive from these three officers. Like, oh, God, there's

00:32:30.660 Tommy. I've heard of him. You know, I've seen him on the BBC. Quick, we've got to do something.

00:32:35.000 What are you doing?

00:32:36.240 Russian says, breaking another foreign prisoner on the run since 29th October has been mistaken

00:32:41.060 released. Like, I posted this on Twitter the other day. Look, once is a mistake, twice

00:32:49.940 is a coincidence, three times is enemy action. Okay. Cranky Texan says, I can't help but wonder

00:32:54.620 if he would have gotten off on a technicality if not for his recent visit to the Ministry

00:32:58.220 of Love. Who knows? Anyway, let's move on.

00:33:01.380 Right. So, I'll wait for Samson to turn this on. Great. Right. So, the BBC is lying to us.

00:33:10.840 If you're watching us for some time, you know this, that some people really want some hard

00:33:15.940 evidence to be shaken from their confidence to the institution. And right now, we do have

00:33:22.600 evidence of the BBC lying to us. We have evidence of the fabrication of a video of Trump speaking

00:33:31.420 to his supporters, which was purposefully altered by the BBC Panorama program and was re-aired

00:33:40.780 a few days before the previous US elections, which tries to make Trump, which makes Trump appear

00:33:50.500 as if he was inciting the Capitol riot hill. Whereas, in fact, he didn't say anything of the sort.

00:33:58.340 And we will have a lot to say about this and about what has happened with a whistleblower report

00:34:04.360 from within the BBC and people who spoke about its general culture. And I will say this because this

00:34:14.480 isn't just the BBC. The whole way that the BBC is run is very similar to the whole way the country is

00:34:21.700 run. I think that many people are not saying it. But if we see what is implied in all the discourse

00:34:30.540 about this scandal, we will see that essentially they are showing how Labour governs the country

00:34:37.040 and how, to a very large extent, the Tories govern the country for many years before Labour got elected.

00:34:45.500 But the point is that the BBC doesn't care about truth, as is evident. They care about marketing for

00:34:52.600 their own cause. And even in that respect, they were wrong. Because the number one rule in marketing is

00:34:58.640 don't over-promise and under-deliver. And they did just that. Let us see the promise that they made.

00:35:07.040 This information, you think you're winning. There is no climate change.

00:35:11.500 The more you try to drown out reality, the harder we'll work to verify the facts. We'll be watching.

00:35:20.200 We'll be ready. Because it's the pursuit of truth that gives us our calling. The fight for truth is on.

00:35:29.340 Right. So, very persuasive.

00:35:35.060 That was the promise. And we are going to talk about the under-delivery. Right. So, let us see what

00:35:42.500 happened here. I'm going to give you a very quick summary and then show you this. So, in the BBC,

00:35:50.560 there was someone who was an independent advisor to the BBC's Editorial Standards and Guidelines

00:35:59.540 Committee, Michael Prescott. And he was a member of that committee for three years. And he wasn't

00:36:06.320 happy at all with the way things were run in the BBC. And when he saw the clip I'm about to show you,

00:36:13.960 he was a bit perplexed. And he asked for a further investigation from people within the BBC to file

00:36:21.760 that report. And what he found is basically confirming everyone who says that the BBC is lying.

00:36:29.060 And also, there is the other bit that the kind of whistleblower problem that they seem to have within

00:36:36.240 the institution shows a very poor culture, a culture of distrust and generalized dissatisfaction

00:36:42.300 with the direction of the organization. Karl, I see you want to...

00:36:47.340 Well, I can't believe an organization that makes its bones on lying to people would have a culture

00:36:51.400 of distrust in it. But don't you agree that they really care about the truth?

00:36:57.120 I've been told that by people who lie a lot.

00:36:59.480 Right. So let us see here what Trump, what they portrayed as Trump is saying and what Trump

00:37:06.560 actually said.

00:37:13.340 We're going to walk down to the Capitol and I'll be there with you. And we fight. We fight

00:37:21.280 like hell. We're going to walk down to the Capitol. And we're going to cheer on our brave senators

00:37:31.280 and congressmen and women.

00:37:35.640 Right. So you do see the difference. Oh, yeah. And there has been an investigation into it.

00:37:42.240 Here we have Reigns talking about about this. And they're basically and he's saying that the bit

00:37:50.540 that they took was 54 minutes after the first sentence. So there are two sentences in the

00:37:57.460 fabricated video. The second part is 54 minutes after the first sentence.

00:38:04.400 They literally stitched together two completely unrelated things.

00:38:06.960 Yes. Let us listen to the associated editor by Telegram.

00:38:10.700 They played the following clip.

00:38:12.120 We're going to walk down to the Capitol and I'll be there with you. And we fight. We fight like hell.

00:38:20.540 But Trump didn't in fact say this at all. The BBC spliced together two clips that took place

00:38:28.460 54 minutes apart. So let's go through it again.

00:38:32.540 So it's what I showed you before. But this is definitely fabrication. And also I don't see how this

00:38:40.240 can be seen as for an intervention. Because you have a major broadcasting network that is

00:38:46.620 purposefully trying to lie in order to create the image of Trump as being worse than having said

00:38:56.020 something that he didn't say. And the thing is, if Trump had incited an insurrection, you'd have heard

00:39:00.080 the clip all the time. But you'd be very familiar with it because they'd play it nonstop. But the fact

00:39:05.340 that they say it but never back it up shows you that there's nothing there.

00:39:08.400 Right. And here we have again Gordon Rayner talking on GB News about it. And basically he summarizes

00:39:15.600 and he says that the report was written by Michael Prescott. He was a member of that committee

00:39:21.000 for three years. BBC managers refused to do anything about it. Senior management was told

00:39:27.680 and then they refused to do anything about it as well. So he's talking about a generalized

00:39:32.800 cultural failure within the BBC.

00:39:38.000 So, well, we shouldn't be surprised. There are bits of the BBC that are quite good. Farming

00:39:43.000 today I quite like. I'm sure that's great. But the news output of the BBC is biased. And

00:39:48.300 it's why public trust and it's collapsing. It's very interesting that they'd be so incredibly

00:39:54.380 stupid to do this because you can check this and prove it. Very easily. And it's not actually,

00:39:59.880 the BBC's bias doesn't really consist in this, in my view. It's not really this. I mean,

00:40:04.200 this has happened and it's disgraceful. But that's not what does happen generally. What

00:40:09.760 does happen generally, because there's no viewpoint diversity in the BBC and because many of them

00:40:15.700 are just propagandists, what happens generally is coverage bias. Just coverage bias. And also

00:40:22.340 commenting and putting out output which just completely ignores important facts. They do that

00:40:28.960 all the time. And you don't really notice it because you start to be, you're not saying

00:40:33.120 anything wrong. You're just blocking out an important matter.

00:40:36.180 Yeah. And essentially, the BBC's primary crime is a lie by omission.

00:40:40.360 It's a lie by omission. Can I give you a really good couple of examples?

00:40:43.720 Please. Of course.

00:40:44.140 So we're keen on the SDP on housing. And we think the state should get back in the business.

00:40:49.920 And I don't think you can, Bird has to have two wings. Private sector will do some. I want

00:40:53.160 the state to do some as well. That's the supply side, which is very important.

00:40:56.480 But the demand side is also important. And the key driver to housing demand in the UK

00:41:01.940 is mass immigration. That is on the figures. The vast majority, 80% of the new housing need

00:41:06.340 is just that. And how you can have migration rates above a million gross and not think that

00:41:13.520 it affects the housing market is lunacy. And yet, the BBC did a two-hour special on housing

00:41:20.340 two years ago, talking about the housing product and the housing crisis and various tensions.

00:41:28.700 They mentioned, because I timed it, as I was writing a piece about it, they mentioned

00:41:32.360 immigration for 43 seconds.

00:41:34.980 It's like...

00:41:35.860 In the height of the Boris wave.

00:41:37.220 The whole thing, yeah. When the Boris wave was happening, it was like, no, there's nothing

00:41:41.760 to see here. And it's like you're... What are you thinking of? There are two components,

00:41:47.020 demand and supply. Demand, no, nothing, no. And actually, it's not just the BBC, because

00:41:53.060 Shelter won't talk about it either. Of course they can't. So they blame other things as the

00:41:58.420 principal challenges for London's housing crisis and so on. And this is the world we live in.

00:42:03.320 And I've heard Nick Robinson on Today, you know, and you can bear listening to it. He'll do

00:42:09.480 like a... He interviewed the Greens for a quarter of an hour on housing.

00:42:13.820 They never mention it, of course.

00:42:15.120 No, no.

00:42:15.720 They can't bring themselves to mention it.

00:42:17.720 No.

00:42:18.220 Because it actually... Immigration and minority status is one of the core pillars of their political

00:42:25.300 platform. If they were to mention it, they'd have to accept that there's a flaw with it.

00:42:29.320 It's cretinous. Not even journalism. It's not even journalism. It's disgraceful.

00:42:33.320 There are loads of other examples. One great example is, do you remember Panodrama? Which

00:42:38.280 is in 2019, John Sweeney for Panorama was investigating Tommy Robinson to establish his...

00:42:44.080 He's excitable, that man.

00:42:45.000 He very... To establish his links to the far right. And Tommy managed to get some secret

00:42:51.680 recordings of him in the process, which the fallout was actually hilarious. The BBC issued

00:42:56.760 an apology for Sweeney. Sweeney got fired. And the Panorama episode never aired.

00:43:03.320 Because Tommy had actually got in there first. But you can see that... So the entire plan

00:43:07.180 was to create a giant stitch-up out of lies. And they had it blow up in the face. And then

00:43:12.280 I had a personal thing of this a little while ago with the BBC Verify, where they had done

00:43:18.860 an episode about the far right, I suppose, which is why I was in it. And they had claimed

00:43:25.220 that I'd gone... On my MEP campaign, I'd gone to Totnes. And it was, you know, a lively debate

00:43:31.520 that I'd have with the people in Totnes. And for some reason, a green councillor in Totnes told

00:43:36.380 the BBC that, like, six months later, I'd gone back there and I'd radicalised half the town.

00:43:41.580 Right. I've never been back to Totnes.

00:43:43.420 That's an achievement.

00:43:44.980 Well, I mean, yeah, exactly. If I had gone there, there'd be social media posts of it

00:43:50.080 all over the place. Yes, half of Totnes is now my followers. But I'd never been back there.

00:43:54.780 And so I complained, and they said nothing. They said, no, we've taken it on good authority

00:43:59.200 that you did go back there. There's no evidence of me going back there.

00:44:02.260 What is the BBC for? I mean, we had a South Yorkshire mayoral election a couple of years ago.

00:44:09.000 Dave Bentley was our candidate. And the BBC didn't really talk to us very much. And they'd

00:44:14.940 found something that Dave had shared, just a joke about something. And it was a little bit,

00:44:19.940 probably a little bit un-PC, but he didn't even originate it. It was nothing big, no big deal.

00:44:24.000 We used to get in touch with us and say, would you like to comment? And what they wanted me to do

00:44:28.260 as a party leader would say, oh, it's terrible. Yeah, it's really awful.

00:44:30.940 Yeah, it's terrible. No, I said, listen, we've put out detailed policies and green papers on

00:44:37.700 industrialisation in South York. You've never asked me about them once. Come back when you

00:44:42.880 want to talk about serious journalism, get lost, basically. And that's the right approach. But

00:44:46.700 that is, they've employed people to go through people's fees to try and catch them out. That's

00:44:51.220 just risible. Absolutely. What's the name of the lady that is the verifier, the fact checker?

00:44:58.780 Mariana Spring? That's correct, yeah. Yes. Is it true? She blocked me after I challenged her on the lie

00:45:04.480 she told about me. But is it, well, that's a separate thing. But is it true that she lied on

00:45:08.260 her CV to get the job? Apparently so. Yes. I mean, it's a story. I mean, the BBC, they're not even

00:45:12.600 trying, are they? You can have a fact checker. But again, it's kind of like this Sovietisation of

00:45:17.380 British politics. Yeah. But no, this is Pravda. It's just Pravda for the liberal order in this

00:45:24.500 country. And they will tell any lie. They will use all sorts of slimy smear tactics to try and

00:45:29.820 discredit people. And they have never, they don't show any remorse. What does Robin Aitken's book,

00:45:35.920 what's the book called? The Noble Liar. That's what he calls it. Yeah, I've got it. He's an ex-BBC.

00:45:41.260 Yeah, but it's a noble lie. They think they're doing God's work. Absolutely. And the less care

00:45:45.920 they have for truth, the more they focus on the propaganda machine aspect of it. And propaganda

00:45:52.200 machines can propagandise in all sorts of ways. They cannot lie by omission, as you mentioned

00:45:57.340 before they spoke about immigration during the Boris wave for 43 seconds. They could also lie.

00:46:03.640 They could just fabricate. Or they could just completely fabricate and divert people's attention

00:46:08.740 from what's happening in order to purposefully portray their enemies as basically demons.

00:46:15.400 And there's a big question now whether Trump is going to be litigious and whether he's going

00:46:21.820 to sue them. He has done so before. Historically, Trump has been litigious.

00:46:24.860 Yes. And also, I am of the firm opinion that his opposition to mainstream media is an integral

00:46:33.260 part of his image, I think. And they're saying here that this happened with CBS. He won a 16

00:46:42.800 million payout from CBS News after accusing it of deceptively editing an interview with Kamala

00:46:48.800 Harris in the 2024 election. We do have the video, but yeah, it's just a word salad by Kamala

00:46:57.380 Harris here. There is no sound for some reason, but you can see that.

00:47:01.500 It's fine. We don't need to watch it. Yeah. Right. So there is also the question of whether

00:47:05.640 there is going to be pressure to Ofcom to launch an independent investigation about this.

00:47:10.980 You know, sorry to bring it back to the incident that I had. I appealed to Ofcom on this thing

00:47:16.320 and they basically sided with the BBC and said, well, no, a credible source. They said you did

00:47:20.380 go back there. I was like, okay, well, tell me the date on which I'm alleged to have gone

00:47:23.780 back there because I'm such a public personality. I doubtless can account for every minute of my

00:47:28.880 day. On that date, I would have been posting things on social media all day that would have

00:47:33.420 been able to verify my location, but they had no interest. And basically I would have had to

00:47:36.860 have made a legal case out of it. And it wasn't really that big a deal. You know, it's like,

00:47:41.060 what am I going to say? If, if anything, if I'd gone to a court, they'd be like, well,

00:47:44.800 it makes you sound powerful and important.

00:47:46.700 Yes. Incredible.

00:47:48.360 Yeah, exactly. So I couldn't say, I couldn't say it hurt my reputation because actually it made me

00:47:53.500 sound amazing. But it just wasn't true. And so I just left, let it drop. But Ofcom just said,

00:47:59.680 no, well, you know, the, the, the green party counselor has said this, so we don't care.

00:48:05.200 Right. And, uh, Michael Prescott isn't the only person who speaks against this. Uh, and we have

00:48:11.060 here media executive Danny Cohen slamming the BBC for structural bias. And he's basically saying that

00:48:17.620 what Prescott is describing is a systemic failure. We're not talking about one mistake. We're talking

00:48:23.260 about a series of mistakes. We're talking about a culture that determines what lies are going to be

00:48:28.580 said and what lies are going to be told, what is not going to be discussed at all. And also we see

00:48:35.520 regularly speaking on the BBC panels, an attempt to completely divert attention from things that many

00:48:43.040 people find interesting. Like for instance, I was watching Matthew Goodwin a few weeks ago.

00:48:48.500 Yes. He, he mentioned the grooming gangs and everyone started, you know, making noises there.

00:48:54.100 So if no, you shouldn't mention them, you shouldn't mention them more, whatever. It's just the chair

00:48:58.460 interjected at that point. You watched the video twice. Yeah. No, Matt was, he's, he's batting quite

00:49:04.240 strongly there and they just don't want that. I don't know what they do about question time. I mean,

00:49:07.760 no one watches it now. Well, I watch it, see the bias. I watch it if there's someone, if there's

00:49:14.020 someone I like, if there's a good batter on it, I'll watch it. A lot of the time it'll be four

00:49:16.900 left wingers and a left winger. Okay. Well, I'm not really interested in watching that, but you

00:49:20.380 notice how it's, it's never proportionate, right? It's, it's always one person and then four people

00:49:25.420 who oppose them. You saw that in Brexit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the data, on the report that was

00:49:29.440 published on it. Yeah. And these four people are almost certain. It's almost certain that they

00:49:35.180 don't represent the majority of the people. Right. And he also says about the general failure

00:49:41.060 of government, which also has, um, uh, had problems that are evident in BBC Arabic and, uh, BBC

00:49:51.360 Arabic is very neutral. It's not exactly. And we have here Gordon Rayner again, talking about

00:49:57.540 leaked dossiers as corporation, Arabic service, boosted terror groups, claims and minimized Israeli

00:50:03.620 suffering. He also said that it was very worrying that it was, uh, described as good as Al Jazeera.

00:50:10.860 So yeah, very flattering. That wasn't very flattering, but the people there found it

00:50:16.160 flattering. Yeah. And basically says here that it's entirely partisan and all sorts of, as they say

00:50:24.180 here, allegations made against Israel were raised to air without adequate checks. The memo says,

00:50:29.520 suggesting either carelessness or a desire always to believe the worst about Israel. And generally

00:50:35.100 speaking, they're so self-evident. Yeah. And they were also, um, platforming people who were basically

00:50:41.860 enthusiasts of the mid-century German Austrian painter. Yeah. One man who said here, sorry,

00:50:50.160 can they get Nick Fuentes on BBC Arabic is what you're saying? Most probably you, you, they'll call him

00:50:55.000 many. Yeah. Right. Uh, and basically they were saying, um, you know, things you'd expect people

00:51:01.600 of this, uh, you know, to say, and, uh, dehumanizing rhetoric against, uh, Jews, uh, who appeared

00:51:08.900 hundreds of times in a period of 18 months. But I want to say just one thing to, to remind people of

00:51:14.880 this, this generalized failure isn't just failure after October 7th. We also have all these extremely

00:51:22.260 bad accusations about the culture of BBC and the kind of, of, uh, front and minimization that they

00:51:29.400 were running for, uh, some people who are definitely among Britain's worst. Yep. That's happened. Yeah.

00:51:38.200 Pretty uncon, uncon controversial to say actually at this point. Yes. And, uh, yeah, that's why I had this

00:51:43.360 video. I wanted to address the issue of these panels who are completely, uh, non-balanced

00:51:49.680 and they are just designed to make people angry. What was particularly interesting about this one

00:51:55.160 is the way that Fiona Bruce became a commentator on the panel rather than an impartial host.

00:52:00.940 Yes. Oh no, she, yes. She was very, you know, no, no, no, no, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt. And it's

00:52:05.480 like he's answering the question, you know, and she was, yeah, completely on his case.

00:52:09.920 Yeah. And there is a further agenda. We also, we know this, but let's repeat this. BBC bosses were

00:52:17.300 dismissive and defensive when Oxford and Cambridge professors accused the corporation of rewriting

00:52:23.180 history to promote a woke agenda. A licked internal, internal memo says, which is absolutely not

00:52:30.020 surprising to us, but it's, it shows that basically they are, they're entirely in it for propaganda and

00:52:36.600 they're the exact opposite of what they have promised themselves to be, which is independent

00:52:40.920 fact checkers. And people are not stupid because BBC viewership is in steady decline.

00:52:47.980 Oh yeah.

00:52:48.920 Um, it's still many more, more people are watching the BBC than, uh, they should, they should, but

00:52:55.860 yeah, there is still noticeable decline.

00:52:59.380 I mean, that's, that's pretty crazy actually. Yeah. I mean, a lot of that is going to have

00:53:03.180 gone online, but still that's a huge, huge drop. And that's only in the last 10 years

00:53:08.340 as well.

00:53:09.200 But what I wanted to say is that I think that this, the way that the BBC is run shows us

00:53:15.880 the way that the country is run. There may be people in institutions who are good and are

00:53:21.680 very unhappy with the way things are going and the sort of sectarianism and temporary alliances

00:53:27.280 with this or that group at the expense of the common good, but they are ignored in the

00:53:32.980 same way that the BBC, uh, senior management ignored people.

00:53:37.380 It's the way it's policed. The sad thing about all of this is just another institution that

00:53:41.700 people used to have trust in. Trust collapses because it does this and then it becomes delegitimized.

00:53:48.760 In the end, it's a bit like politics itself and the other institutions and people just don't

00:53:52.420 think I can trust any of you.

00:53:53.860 Because at some point, some people, some ideologues are biting more than they can chew.

00:53:58.980 Yeah.

00:53:59.200 And then there are consequences. And that's when we're talking about a propaganda machine

00:54:04.460 that is so rotten, it's difficult to hide it.

00:54:07.400 They couldn't find a single person in the BBC newsroom who voted for Brexit on Brexit night.

00:54:11.620 They struggled or admitted to it. There will have been. There will have been.

00:54:16.060 Um, Robert says, I was annoyed at the BBC's website summary of Reeve's announcement yesterday.

00:54:20.720 The way it was phrased, uh, you would think that we were only 20 billion short in that

00:54:25.420 department, not the 141 billion in deficit. Well, that's the thing. It's, it's about protecting

00:54:29.640 the liberal regime. Uh, in fact, if we go on to the next one, we'll see what happens when

00:54:33.320 it comes to, uh, the collapse of trust in, uh, the media. Um, and, uh, Tom Ratt says,

00:54:38.620 if Tommy doesn't sue the plod and get a conviction that is de facto papers, please state better

00:54:42.700 to have the danger of terrorism in the question. If we stop through re-migration than the long

00:54:46.360 house. Well, um, long, long conversation to be had on that, isn't it? Uh, anyway, right.

00:54:51.920 So let's, let's talk about the collapsing propaganda networks that are the mainstream media in Britain.

00:54:58.260 Uh, Tom Swarbrick is a fairly regular chap. He, uh, has had a pretty normal career going through

00:55:08.120 the British media. As you can see, he joined the BBC in 2009 as a producer and presenter on local

00:55:13.100 radio. He joined LBC in 2012. He presented his own show. And then he left LBC in 2016,

00:55:19.000 became a part of the senior broadcast team in Downing street. I was an advisor to prime minister

00:55:23.940 Theresa May and then Donald, uh, during the election of Donald Trump. Then he returned to LBC in 2018,

00:55:29.500 presented a weekend breakfast show. And he's just been doing his drive time show and he's, you know,

00:55:33.700 doing various things. He's just covering things in a very, um, shall we say centrist way? So you're a

00:55:40.340 very normal regime approved kind of commentator. He's not a radical lefty or anything, but when

00:55:46.700 you're in this kind of environment, you have to believe the rhetoric. You have to parrot the rhetoric

00:55:52.980 all the time. And this is one of the reasons that people like Majid Nawaz and Nigel Farage got kicked off

00:55:56.960 of LBC. They were like, well, hang on a second. And, uh, Tom has been having a few encounters with

00:56:03.520 reality through the course of his job. So this during, uh, this was about six months ago, I think

00:56:09.300 it was. Yeah. Six months ago. Uh, he went to Birmingham to investigate the bin strike and you

00:56:14.560 could tell that his experience in Birmingham. Hello. Welcome to England's second city. This is the site

00:56:22.020 that greets you as you enter Birmingham these days, a bin strike that is now entering its second month

00:56:27.540 with emergency talks happening at the union today to try and get an agreement between them

00:56:32.640 and the council to end the nightmare that a lot of residents have been having with,

00:56:38.380 as you can see, mountains of rubbish. I mean, this is taller than me, this thing. This is going to be

00:56:43.100 over six foot's worth of rubbish. Everywhere we've driven past since coming into the city from the

00:56:48.080 train station has been filled on most street corners with this kind of arrangement. The smell,

00:56:54.940 the place stinks. And of course there's the issue of rats. I don't know if you can see in here, but

00:56:59.320 you can get a pretty good example of what I mean. That's a hole in a bing and bag created by a rat.

00:57:03.940 There's holes all over the place. The rubbish has spilt out everywhere and no one's been doing anything

00:57:07.900 about it for the best part of two months. This is what six weeks of bin strike looks like, at least on

00:57:12.160 this road. The smell is, I'm going to go with fruity. It certainly hits the back of your throat

00:57:19.300 pretty quick. And as you can see, this has been here for an age because you've got at least eight

00:57:24.220 deep, six high, what have you. And look, they've clearly been ripped open. I've got my trusty

00:57:28.140 litter pick here. That's just eggs, just knocking around, glass bottles and everything. There's holes

00:57:33.060 in the bin bags where the rats have been. Here you are. That's classic. Come down here. My colleague

00:57:39.320 was here a few days ago and pointed out that in one of the areas, you'll find a bin bag

00:57:46.140 that has been ripped open by something or other with used nappies in it. And I can tell

00:57:51.320 you that's used because I can smell it from here. He's more detailed than he should be.

00:57:55.260 Yes. Right. There's a kind of level of disgust. You can see that he's modulating his rhetoric,

00:58:01.520 but this is clearly repugnant to him. And so he goes around to try and ask some people

00:58:07.040 about this. Let's watch. Trying to do business despite the bin situation. You can see the fruit

00:58:14.560 and veg that is outside the shop being sold. One wonders whether that's a good idea, given all the

00:58:19.580 rats. Just come to talk about the bins. How is it going? Not well? No, very well. Too much rubbish.

00:58:25.460 Last week was a fire here. It was a fire? What? In the bin bags? No, in the bin. Because

00:58:31.580 the people, all people, they put the rubbish there. Oh, I see. And they set it on fire? Yeah,

00:58:36.600 it was a big fire. How long has it been like this? Like nearly one month? Three weeks. Three

00:58:42.640 weeks. Three weeks? Two weeks? Yeah. And the smell, man, it absolutely stinks. Sorry. Yeah,

00:58:51.600 terrible for kids. Yeah, so much. So much. I'm scared about my children. You're scared about your

00:58:58.900 children because of their health implications? Yeah. I'm scared to leave the door open. The

00:59:02.980 kids are going inside. Yeah. How old are your children? Seven, six and four and they have

00:59:08.640 my small daughter. Oh. Yes. So as you can see, there's sort of people around. This particular

00:59:16.420 clip I've really enjoyed because he just wants to talk to the locals and I don't know whether

00:59:20.740 you've noticed there's a kind of ethnic profile on the locals. They're all foreign.

00:59:25.860 Coming to the butchers with me. Door open. Rubbish. Oh, hello, sir. You work in the butchers,

00:59:31.400 obviously, or are you just carrying around? God. A sheep? Looks like a goat. So people

00:59:38.720 are trying to do their job and go about with their businesses. You've got a green grocers over

00:59:43.020 there that's selling fresh fruit and vegetables outside. One wonders about whether the rats have

00:59:47.960 had a good go at that. There's a butcher's next door which has got the door open and obviously

00:59:51.660 there's produce being brought in all the time past the stinking foul tip of rubbish that

00:59:58.060 rats have been in clearly where there's discarded nappies everywhere. It's not, it's definitely

01:00:03.920 not hygienic. Right. So this is a very English response to this problem. He's very much understating

01:00:11.340 what you can tell her his own levels of disgust. And he's noticed that it's a bunch of foreigners,

01:00:17.280 probably don't speak English, some of them, and they have no concern for health and safety

01:00:21.400 standards or hygiene or decency. And they're prepared to just throw their rubbish out in the

01:00:25.000 streets. And he's like, right, okay, that's interesting. And so recently he's like, you know

01:00:29.900 what? I'm not sure diversity is our strength, actually. And one can't help but connect these

01:00:35.200 two things. Diversity is our strength is a propaganda phrase. What do we mean by our? Who do we mean by

01:00:43.180 our? Diversity of what? Diversity of thought? Diversity of background? Of education? What kind

01:00:52.500 of diversity are we talking about here? Diversity is our strength. Strength shown how. A diverse

01:00:58.700 investment plan might make you more resilient, but it also might not make you any money. A diverse

01:01:04.380 football team needs ideally some taller players, some quicker players, some left-footed, some right-footed,

01:01:10.440 but they've all got to be good enough to get in the team. Yet we've arrived at a situation where our

01:01:14.560 differences alone are somehow enough to unite us. We are united through difference, apparently.

01:01:24.160 So this is so great, right? So basically, he's a regime man, and he has been his whole life,

01:01:30.320 right? But you can see that even, where is it? This is a propaganda phrase, right? Yeah, exactly.

01:01:36.640 This is a propaganda phrase. And you've parroted it your whole political career,

01:01:40.720 your whole media career. And now you've gone and experienced it firsthand. You're like,

01:01:44.680 I'm not... Has he ever said it? I mean, he may be...

01:01:46.380 I'm not saying he'd be a sort of fellow passenger.

01:01:48.260 The point is, if you're in these environments, you consent to this, you know. But it's got to the point

01:01:55.020 now where he's even, like, on air, being critical, you know, I have questions about the entire underlying

01:02:02.560 premise of modern Britain.

01:02:04.960 Well, yeah, because it's just a slogan, not a very intelligent one, and it has low correspondence to reality.

01:02:12.040 Yes.

01:02:12.420 And people are saying this, I've said it for some time. It's certainly a challenge. I mean, I wouldn't,

01:02:17.140 certainly wouldn't call it strength. And, well, but it's a bit like, it's a bit like the old Soviet Union,

01:02:22.960 isn't it? We talked about that earlier on. But it's a bit, they're in the, I don't know who does

01:02:27.360 Keir Starmer's tweets. It can't be Keir Starmer, because it looks like AI or something. But it just comes

01:02:32.460 out with this slop all the time, and they'll just constantly say it. And the tactic is just to assert

01:02:37.520 these things. They'll continue to assert it. And then people will continue to notice and

01:02:42.220 say, well, actually, not really.

01:02:43.980 But it's got to the point where even, like, you know, reliable stalwarts of LBC are like,

01:02:48.200 you know what, guys, I'm not, I'm not sure about this.

01:02:50.740 Do you think Emily Maitlis is ever going to say?

01:02:52.920 Well, that's the question. Tom, Tom is just a fairly regular person, it seems, working his

01:02:58.860 way through the system. Emily Maitlis is a foot soldier.

01:03:01.420 Yes.

01:03:01.700 She's a true believer.

01:03:03.180 People, friends in academia, this system is embedded. And I always say, when's it going to

01:03:11.280 change? And the consensus we've come to is that it goes on until, even until, there are any

01:03:18.920 consequences borne by those. And what he's seen is consequences. And the problem is that the people

01:03:24.160 spout this fluff don't really come into contact. They have no connection with reality. Most British

01:03:29.780 people are living, and cities are living with these challenges. They don't touch, doesn't

01:03:35.220 touch them.

01:03:35.940 Half the country doesn't believe diversity is a strength.

01:03:38.280 No. And, you know, you've got people like Heseltine turning up, he's got an 80 acre estate.

01:03:43.400 He's got no purchase to anything.

01:03:45.300 So for anyone wondering, Michael Heseltine had a nice puff piece write up in the Times the

01:03:49.160 other day, where he complained that Nigel Farage was a fascist, because his politics is of them

01:03:54.360 and us. And he did this from his palatial estate in a 98% English area, where he's tending

01:04:01.560 his trees that are his greatest legacy.

01:04:03.840 Billy Bragg's the same.

01:04:04.880 It's incredible.

01:04:05.560 You know, Billy Bragg was from a particular part of London, doesn't live in that area.

01:04:08.240 He lives over here, doesn't he, somewhere?

01:04:09.660 I don't know.

01:04:10.320 I think so, yeah. But anyway, that's the point. It's the hypocrisy we've seen.

01:04:13.260 As though diversity is our strength, it's not us and them against those who don't want

01:04:17.900 diversity.

01:04:18.700 The thing about this, what I love about this, he's like, yeah, no, diversity is our strength.

01:04:22.500 It's a propaganda term. It's like, yes, that's correct. From who, Tom? For what purpose,

01:04:29.780 Tom? Who is making you, you know, you're sat in this institution that is proudly diversity

01:04:35.280 is our strength. The whole raison d'etre is diversity is our strength. And now you're like,

01:04:40.180 okay, I think that's a propaganda phrase. I'm not sure I agree with that.

01:04:42.720 So Carl, give us a prediction. What do you think will happen to Tom?

01:04:45.480 Well, it depends.

01:04:46.660 What's going to happen to Tom?

01:04:47.400 The thing is, right, Tom is married with kids, right? So now there are basically two

01:04:52.840 directions he can go. He can say, you know what? You'll get a quick mention from his

01:04:59.060 producer. You're like, sure, you sound a bit far right there, Tom. Because you are, actually.

01:05:03.680 And the question is, Tom, do you keep questioning and end up going down the rabbit and going,

01:05:08.000 yeah, no, I think this is actually being used as a weapon against us. Why are we part of an

01:05:12.180 organization that's propagandizing the bridge public to think that diversity is a strength

01:05:16.940 when I know that's obviously not true? To what end is that being done? Or you can go,

01:05:21.900 you know what? I've got a mortgage to pay for. I've got kids who are in school. I'm not going

01:05:25.440 to send them to a normal crappy school. I'm an LBC host. I send them to a private school.

01:05:28.840 I don't know if he sends them to a private school. I'm just going to assume. But the point

01:05:31.560 being, he's got bills to pay. He's got people relying on him. So he's going to say, well,

01:05:34.160 you know what? I'm actually going to just keep my mouth shut. Maybe diversity is our strength,

01:05:38.640 actually.

01:05:38.880 It depends partly who's listening to this, isn't it? I mean, occasionally I tune into

01:05:42.000 James O'Brien for comic uplift, you know, just to listen to it for a few minutes. And I've

01:05:47.780 got friends that do that. It's the best comedy I ever get. But maybe the channel should have

01:05:55.180 some breadth, you know. I mean, Nick Ferrari.

01:05:58.640 It does have some, but you can see that that's been narrowing over the years. I mean, there

01:06:05.140 was, what's her name? Sanjita Musco. Yes. Yeah. She was fired for questioning Israel,

01:06:10.040 basically. Yes. Yeah. And then you had, you know, Majid Nawaz and Nigel Farage, who were

01:06:14.760 fired for being, well, Farage pro-Brexit and just being skeptical of the predominant narratives.

01:06:21.480 Ian Dale's still there.

01:06:22.680 Well, Ian Dale. Yeah, I know.

01:06:26.040 Bloody hell. You know, Ian Dale, like his sensible interventions are long in the rearview mirror

01:06:32.520 at this point, aren't they? You know, he's become exactly the kind of woke Tory that we've

01:06:40.040 seen for quite a while. But the point is, Tom has hit on what is essentially the foundation

01:06:46.580 stone of the prevailing liberal ideology. Is diversity our strength? And if diversity is

01:06:56.080 not our strength, then maybe something else is our strength, actually. And it's this,

01:07:03.160 excuse me, it's this particular question that actually leads you down the path of becoming

01:07:09.280 far right. Becoming someone who's against the regime in total. And so basically, you are right.

01:07:15.920 Which one does Tom go for? He's got a question that he has to answer.

01:07:19.560 Well, maybe they'll answer it for him. That was the point I was getting at.

01:07:21.720 Well, I don't think he's going to get Mike Graham'd yet. I don't see him getting hacked

01:07:28.240 after a few beers on a Friday evening or whatever. And being like, why is this? But he's not,

01:07:35.040 he's began asking the right question.

01:07:38.120 And he has phrased it in a way, though, that is open to lots of interpretation because he's

01:07:44.540 just asking questions. He's not stupid. So yeah, he could always turn it around and say,

01:07:50.420 no, it is this particular kind of diversity the regime wants that is our strength as supporters.

01:07:58.180 Well, he says diversity of what? And the answer is, of course, race. That's the kind of thing.

01:08:02.880 And culture.

01:08:04.060 Mostly it's like...

01:08:05.060 Cultural practices.

01:08:05.760 Sure.

01:08:06.560 It is our strength. Tell us what our strength is.

01:08:09.260 Exactly. It's a strength. But he's like, who's we? That's a great question, Tom. You know,

01:08:13.520 is we the British public? Well, probably not. It's probably not a strength to have a bunch

01:08:18.220 of foreigners dumping their rubbish in the streets with all the rats around. But then

01:08:22.520 you've got to ask yourself, well, who is the we? And am I a part of the we? Because I'm

01:08:26.560 not sure you are, Tom, actually. You're a normal English bloke with a family. You feel

01:08:32.420 like you're included in that we? I'm not sure you are.

01:08:35.500 I don't think he was included in that area.

01:08:38.960 Well, no, the we of diversity is our strength. I think he's coming to the conclusion that

01:08:45.920 maybe that's not me and my family, actually. Maybe that's someone else and their families.

01:08:50.860 So anyway, like I said, fun little bit for me, because I always like watching the glimmer

01:08:56.960 of light.

01:08:58.160 Reality bites.

01:08:58.980 Yeah, exactly. The reality biting people who themselves are ensconced in the ivory tower

01:09:02.880 and don't really have to deal with any of these problems. Am I being lied to? Am I being

01:09:07.920 propagandized? It's like, yes, you are. And for anyone who's curious about the Birmingham

01:09:11.340 bin stroke, it's still going on. This was from October. They're thinking about just making

01:09:17.720 a bunch of the bin workers redundant, because why would you need them? And the issue is,

01:09:22.880 of course, perennial. It's disgusting. It's just everywhere. It's gross. It's really foul.

01:09:30.240 And apparently the question of the finance of the council is on the table. Now, I haven't

01:09:36.380 looked into this in any great depth, but the council claimed that they had been made bankrupt

01:09:40.420 and therefore they can't pay the bin men, what the bin men are asking for. And the council

01:09:45.960 have said, no, we can't do that. And various finance experts have come and gone, no, this

01:09:50.100 is just mismanagement. What are you talking about? And OK, I can believe that. But I'm not

01:09:55.700 going to make a big deal of that here. But it used to be, you know, under Joe Chamberlain,

01:10:00.200 people used to come from around the world to see how the civic organization management

01:10:04.580 was undertaken.

01:10:05.620 What changed in Birmingham?

01:10:07.680 Quite a lot.

01:10:09.480 Well, that's the point, isn't it? Anyway, we'll skip the video comments for today, Samson.

01:10:15.660 Let's go on to some normal comments. So Hector says, glad to see William back. Very nice

01:10:20.060 tie, by the way. And lots of other people have been saying, very nice to see William back,

01:10:24.660 so that's good. Ed Miliband, Harnessing Enoch's Spilling Grave, says,

01:10:30.580 The Terrorism Act 2000 was brought in so that police can detain suspects without having to

01:10:34.120 wait for warrants. When questioned under it, you are not allowed to remain silent. It was

01:10:37.960 only meant to be used when there are grounded fears of an imminent terror attack. It also

01:10:43.000 makes an offense to collect or make a record of information of a kind likely to be useful

01:10:49.760 to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or possessing a document, or

01:10:53.740 record containing information of that kind. Which is obviously insanely broad. A bus

01:10:57.880 timetable could constitute that point. But that's the problem, isn't it? We're trapped

01:11:02.380 with these very, very silly laws. But like you were saying earlier, the state is just

01:11:07.100 at war with itself at this point. And we see this in Keir Starmer, actually. There are a

01:11:10.840 bunch of things that Keir Starmer wants to do that he is finding pushback from the Blairite

01:11:14.480 institutions themselves.

01:11:15.740 His basic conflict is just with reality. That's the truth of it. No, it is. His conflict,

01:11:22.940 no, he's in there, holed up in, the world doesn't correspond to his ideas. And he struggles

01:11:28.560 with reality. And it's like a sort of procrastinating. What does he do? He has to double down on these

01:11:33.300 meaningless slogans. And that's why it's like Chesheshku. That's why it's like a regime

01:11:37.260 that the public's gone somewhere else, because they have to live in the real world.

01:11:41.100 And that's why you can see at the moment, if you look at the polling, the uniparty only

01:11:44.960 makes up about 30%, 35% of the actual electorate now. It completely cooked. The centre has collapsed.

01:11:51.720 And they're over.

01:11:53.000 Now, on that note, let's talk about the SDP for a minute, then. So how's the SDP doing?

01:11:56.800 And sort of, you know, what would your general pitch be to the average voter?

01:12:04.380 I think we occupy the hidden majority. Most British people want a state strong enough to

01:12:11.920 do some housing, to run the railways, to get energy transmission and production going, and

01:12:18.020 own the water companies, not flog them off to foreigners. That's what they want. But that's

01:12:22.340 what we've got.

01:12:23.080 It's a low bar.

01:12:24.060 Yeah, no, but that's what we've got, I'm afraid. That's what they've actually done.

01:12:28.060 You know, on the social side, know what the family is. Know what the, you know, the us

01:12:31.800 part of us is very important. That is the social side. It's not about, I think we've had far

01:12:35.620 too much crazy individualism and selfishness, basically. And us is a reality. That's why

01:12:40.800 we, our slogan is family, community, nation. It's quite close to reforms, because they stole

01:12:46.120 it. But it's still meaningful. At least we know what it means. It's where we come together

01:12:50.220 and sort of look after each other. We've got each other's backs. So check us out.

01:12:53.840 scp.org, you know, just have a look at the policies and...

01:12:57.340 Sorry, just on that. I think that's really important, though, because it is very clear

01:13:01.460 from repeated polls over time that the British public are not radical open market extremists.

01:13:07.620 No, no.

01:13:07.940 Free market extremists.

01:13:08.840 And, I mean, it's a drum I'm banging all the time, is that we're being exploited by

01:13:14.140 state railways in Europe, because they own a huge amount of our national rail. And so

01:13:20.220 what would be the point of that? This is why our trains are just the worst in Europe.

01:13:24.600 It's crazy.

01:13:25.100 It's insane.

01:13:25.840 It's crazy. And that's what we've got. But on trade as well, the biggest thing of all,

01:13:29.380 I mean, our political parties are way behind, as I was saying earlier. They're about 20

01:13:34.180 years behind the paradigm shift. You've got a paradigm shift. You can't have free trade

01:13:38.480 with China. You will just get decimated, destroyed. And some of these things matter here.

01:13:43.180 It assumes an equality of rules that they're playing under, right?

01:13:46.720 Yeah, they're doing...

01:13:47.200 Chinese are not playing under the same place as us.

01:13:49.080 No, look at the tariffs. Look at the non-tariff barriers. So, no, you're a mug. If you think

01:13:54.340 it's free trade. Sorry, I've described this stuff, and Aaron Cass has described this stuff

01:13:58.960 as pathetic. You know, the thinking on this is pathetically naive. Get real. So that's

01:14:05.520 all important stuff. Energy is very important. We put out a new energy green paper. It's

01:14:10.060 online. Energy abundance. We diagnose properly. The team has looked at what caused this problem,

01:14:15.480 combination of net zero, and abandoning planning and full privatization. And we have proper,

01:14:20.340 intelligent responses to it. It's our job to do this on these things. So how do you get

01:14:23.960 out of it? How do you solve it? Build some new gas-fired power plants and coal, and then

01:14:29.260 have a pathway to a full fleet of British nuclear power. That's what we need. So these,

01:14:34.180 the serious things, we've usually got an intelligent response to.

01:14:36.580 The Conservatives refused this back in 2011, didn't they?

01:14:40.180 Yeah.

01:14:40.580 It was under, there's a particular quote from Clegg, where he said something like,

01:14:44.880 it'll take 10 years. It's like, but you were still in power? Well, Clegg wasn't.

01:14:48.180 They've just fried your future on that. And the Tories in 2010 closed down British nuclear

01:14:53.620 fuels. And then a few years later, they're having a pint with G and saying, actually,

01:14:57.240 can you build it? They were so, so un, they were so unpatriotic. They thought, let's,

01:15:02.420 let's give the, this capacity of the Chinese. And it's until I, it wasn't me, but a few

01:15:07.400 people said, you know, 5G, is it very intelligent? Is it, is it a good idea to give 5G to the

01:15:13.440 Chinese Communist Party, effectively? And I always said it was like a Sergeant Wilson

01:15:17.060 question. Is that terribly wise? No.

01:15:19.480 It came so close as well, didn't it?

01:15:21.060 No, it could have happened.

01:15:22.260 Boris was so close to the lab.

01:15:23.720 Followed out thinking. So, you know, national capitalism is a real thing. The Americans,

01:15:28.440 Vance and Bannon, understand it.

01:15:30.820 And I think, you know, if you're still a sort of zombie Thatcherite and you think it's

01:15:34.100 free, free trade's fine, it's hello birds, hello sky, sorry, you need to just wake up,

01:15:39.500 look at the way the world actually is and talk about it and promote it.

01:15:43.000 This is, this is approaching things from the interests of Britain as a nation rather than

01:15:46.960 an ideology that needs to be fulfilled. And it's the same with social issues as well. Because

01:15:51.040 I mean, like you said, I think you do actually represent a surprisingly large demographic of

01:15:56.140 the country, which is not only quite economically nationalist, but also quite socially conservative.

01:16:00.380 Yeah.

01:16:00.720 And doesn't want a massive welfare state.

01:16:03.080 No, I don't want a big state. I mean, it's, we've got a vastly too big state now. And the

01:16:08.460 combination, we have some terrible policy combinations, as I say, you know, mass immigration

01:16:12.940 and no, no state housing. The worst you can have. Get the worst. Stop, stop, stop immigration,

01:16:18.060 build some houses, might sort. That's a red and blue combination. But on, on, on the labor

01:16:21.660 market, yeah, it's the worst combination. We have 20% of young adults out of the labor force

01:16:25.720 because of mental health issues and nothing is done to try and they should, the first thing

01:16:29.720 that you should say to them is to get a church. In, in, in, 50 years ago, if you had a

01:16:34.160 spiritual issue, even if you don't believe, get a church. It's part of the belonging,

01:16:37.680 not the belief. Just, just, but you can't say that now. And, and then the sticking plaster

01:16:43.160 to this labor market crisis to import vast amounts of people from Nigeria and Ghana, which

01:16:48.760 is unfair to those states and fiscally negative and crazy for us. So they, labor and the Tories

01:16:55.520 dream up these dreadful combinations and the solution usually is a little bit of red and

01:17:00.540 blue. Actually, that usually will do the trick. Look, I think what you won't get from me is

01:17:06.340 lack of conviction. I think we're right about this and I'm going to continue to argue the

01:17:10.060 case and we're growing. And it's, I will, I mean, I, it is difficult with a reform at

01:17:13.980 the moment. They're sucking a lot of oxygen out and in a way I wish them well, because

01:17:17.620 I think the two parties deserve to be. If he does nothing else. If he does nothing

01:17:22.820 else, it's a wrecking ball. I agree with it. But, but if you, if you're looking for, you

01:17:26.520 know, um, policy stuff and you're taking a, what happens after reform? I think the country's

01:17:33.000 going to need the SDP. Great question. Yeah. Um, Gabriel says, uh, wow, actually I'll skip

01:17:38.620 them. I'm sorry. Um, Mathurin points out that the police are operating under the principle

01:17:44.240 that Stephen Yaxley-Larenan is a terrorist because his words hurt my feelings, um, which

01:17:49.520 is basically what this all boils down to. He is far right and therefore, um, uh, Zesty

01:17:56.200 says, speaking of the BBC in a recent podcast, Bob Villain, when speaking about his Glastonbury

01:18:00.820 performance, uh, where he had chanted death to the IDF and you're not getting your country

01:18:04.520 back, said once he's finished, BBC staff members congratulated him on his performance.

01:18:08.760 Yes, they did. It's graceful. Louis Theroux interview. It's graceful. It's insane. These

01:18:14.300 are the, these are the people who staff the institutions. And by implication, they sort of

01:18:19.720 like the message. You are not getting your country back. Of course. Why else would they

01:18:23.960 cheer for it? I mean, again, the BBC has had, um, diversity hiring quotas and initiatives

01:18:31.620 for a long time. So the thing is we, we, we are very quick to assume that we know the

01:18:37.660 kind of people that we're talking about, but they, again, the hour and the we are actually

01:18:42.180 very important. We can give an answer to Tom Swabrick though, because if diversity is a

01:18:46.260 strength and, you know, you are not getting your country back, then we is those who don't

01:18:52.720 want, who want the country to not, to, yeah, who have taken it and to lose its character.

01:18:58.720 Yes. Consequence you get there, Tom, it's Birmingham. Um, it's a remarkable cultural turn. I was in the

01:19:06.840 pub the other day and the, the, we've gone from, I mean, you know, the first law was the

01:19:10.780 principle recent, and it's not a recent, but you know, it was, it was, it was just an absolute

01:19:17.120 catastrophe for the country and led to the second war. But you've gone from a situation a hundred

01:19:22.020 years where people, British people were prepared to, to stand up and fight and die for their country

01:19:27.740 to now, uh, a significant amount of liberals are totally indifferent to the country, uh, even

01:19:36.540 existing culturally in the future at all. They're, they're, they don't feel strongly about this

01:19:40.540 at all. They're not, they're not interested. I think that's inhumane. Oh, it's insane. Um, but

01:19:45.860 the thing is, I think the issue is that in, in even, even going back to the year 2000 or so, it felt

01:19:54.140 that the country was being run in the interest of the British people. So all, all through the last

01:19:58.660 hundred years, people were like, well, this is our country and this is, it works for us. So of course

01:20:04.220 we're going to fight in our millions to defend it. But if you look now, the country is not being run

01:20:09.080 in the interest of the British people. It's being run in the interests of global ideology,

01:20:13.340 liberal ideology and the foreign client groups that that ideology has brought here.

01:20:17.800 Yeah. Well, I say that the, I mean, my criticism of the economic liberalism, the Tories and people

01:20:21.940 that think like them is they think the country is a shop. It's not a shop. It's a home. And I,

01:20:25.420 my view of the liberals, the Labour parties, I think it's a charity. They think the, they think

01:20:30.740 the country is an NGO and that's what they want it to be.

01:20:33.100 Right. Yes. And that's what they spend.

01:20:35.060 I want to ask you something on this because I think that it's an interesting point I'm asking

01:20:42.500 because it seems to me that the more welfarism rises and the more people outsource what was

01:20:49.920 traditionally considered to be responsibility to, to consider the neighbourhood, the worse

01:20:55.360 people get because they think that I paid my taxes, I did my share, so I'm not going to

01:21:00.000 care about my neighbourhood, not going to care about my neighbours, and I'm not going

01:21:03.980 to engage in charity because I've already done my fair bit.

01:21:09.320 There is that, but there's also the way welfare is, again, to take a very long sweep, on the

01:21:15.320 parish used to be the way it was done in this country. You know, if you were poor, you'd

01:21:21.220 have a list of people that were desperate. But the important thing about that was that

01:21:24.820 the parish knew them, of course. So there was a moral and there was a proximity to what

01:21:28.560 was going on. The reason this person needs help is that, the reason this other person.

01:21:32.540 But what has happened? And actually in the sort of three red and blue entities in the

01:21:36.940 UK, you know, Red Tory and Blue Labour and us, you know, Philip Blonde's look at welfare,

01:21:45.680 the harm welfare can do, you know, it can start off as a safety net number being a hammock,

01:21:51.080 is probably the most acute. And he is right about a lot of that stuff. But just on the numbers,

01:21:55.560 we can't afford the welfare state we have, if you've knackered the tax space and de-industrialised.

01:21:59.540 So you need to get real. And a welfare system really ought to be keeping people fed. But

01:22:07.540 you've got to encourage people to get back to work. You really do.

01:22:09.540 The problem is, when it comes from the state, there's no expectation on the people claiming

01:22:16.520 the money, right? Claiming the benefits.

01:22:18.520 Totally detached.

01:22:19.520 Yeah, exactly. It's completely detached. And it becomes something that is of a scale that

01:22:25.520 seems almost irrelevant, almost universal. Whereas if it was the local parish church taking donations

01:22:31.720 from people in the local area, they would say, look, we've only had £2,000 in donations.

01:22:36.700 And that has to go between 12 people or something. So you have to find a way of supporting yourself.

01:22:41.700 So this can't, you know, it's not just an infinite pot of money that can be used to dispense

01:22:45.700 to an infinite number of people. And so there's a real sort of pragmatic and grounded element

01:22:52.700 to it. So yeah, people will.

01:22:54.700 But the family, I mean, also just on the data, it's true that, you know, the family is the first social service

01:22:59.720 and the first place we share. So, and if you, a two larger, well, I mean, people will look back,

01:23:08.720 I've said before, people look back on where we are now and see, you know, putting up a sign, you know,

01:23:13.700 people have broken into your country in hotels and all the costs of that. And the PIPs scheme,

01:23:18.700 which is giving people some, you know, very, very good cars, BMs and Mercs and so on.

01:23:23.720 Motorability.

01:23:24.720 Motorability thing, which is 10% of all UK car sales car. So it's off the scale and people look back and saying,

01:23:29.720 how grotesque could it have been to go, who was deciding this? And this is what politicians

01:23:34.720 can't answer. None of them have been in control. I mean, I used to have a drink with the guy

01:23:39.720 who ran the welfare thing because he was an RMP. And I'm, I don't think he was in control of it.

01:23:43.720 No, no. And the thing is, this, it's going to be understood to be deeply exploitative of the normal people

01:23:50.720 who actually are net tax paying people. It's this whole, this whole system. It's just built on.

01:23:59.720 There's a, there's a kind of viciousness to it that is a moral blackmail that underpins it.

01:24:06.720 So I said, what, you want that disabled person to go without a car? It's like, no, but I don't think poor people should just be given cars either.

01:24:13.720 But a disabled, but this is the problem with it. This is why it's in the, it's, it is the edge cases that demonstrate the wrongness of it.

01:24:20.720 But if you have a mental health challenge or you have anxiety and you're in your twenties,

01:24:25.720 it does not follow that the state should buy you an Audi. Sorry. And this is where I'm sorry.

01:24:32.720 And how can you, how can we have got here, you know, and they don't, and the PSPR is over a hundred billion.

01:24:38.720 You're over a hundred billion. You, this is just, it's the moral blackmail that underpins it.

01:24:41.720 Oh, are you saying that person with anxiety deserves to suffer? It's like, you know, in a way I kind of am actually.

01:24:46.720 Yeah, but you're, you're, you're, you're creating a, you've just committed a rights violation to that person.

01:24:50.720 Well, there we go. Because you have a right to have an Audi.

01:24:52.720 Well, I'm not a liberal. I don't know. There you go.

01:24:54.720 But that's the, but that's the point though. The, the moral blackmail of the state exploiting the vast majority of the people,

01:25:01.720 that surely can't continue for very long. Like I said, there's a certain viciousness in that.

01:25:07.720 There's a total lack of virtue. And it, when you saw the woman on question time the other day,

01:25:11.720 so sorry, you, you're anxious, but you're perfectly happy to go.

01:25:14.720 National TV. Not many people could do that.

01:25:16.720 And, and smirk is your, you know, is your, you know, that you, the institutions are there to protect and ensconce you.

01:25:22.720 Whereas Matt Goodwin, obviously a net, getting me a net taxpayer, hardworking dad, and he's the villain of the piece.

01:25:30.720 And it's, sorry, that's ridiculous.

01:25:31.720 It's a bit like Swarbrick and the proximity thing we talked about earlier.

01:25:34.720 But what happens is, cause I, you know, we, we have lots of councillors and, and members in, in some pretty tough areas.

01:25:41.720 And you speak to the people that are working all the time, the strivers, you know, the people, to Faraj's point, you know,

01:25:48.720 the people get up at six o'clock, get in the van and actually make the work, the country work.

01:25:52.720 And their tolerance of, of this stuff is very low.

01:25:55.720 You don't, you know, you, it is unfair.

01:25:58.720 I'm one of those people.

01:25:59.720 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:00.720 Very low tolerance.

01:26:01.720 But the people that are most likely to defend it is totally detached from it and insulated from it.

01:26:05.720 It's like consequences again.

01:26:07.720 If you, if you could see what was happening, maybe you'd have a different view.

01:26:10.720 Yeah.

01:26:11.720 I honestly, honestly, another, sorry, I know I'm going on about this, but another thing that really bothers me is the, the liberal activists themselves,

01:26:19.720 who just see the government as this divine instrument to solve problems.

01:26:24.720 Like, no, look, what, what, what I would do is I would literally be like, look, we're going to set up a national charity,

01:26:29.720 a government controlled charity, and the government will fund the actual infrastructure of it.

01:26:33.720 But you will have to pay and get involved and actually do the thing that you want done, or it doesn't get done.

01:26:38.720 But he, but it distorts what the government, this is, from my point of view, what irritates me about it is that it distorts what the government should do.

01:26:45.720 I agree.

01:26:46.720 I wouldn't mind the country having a border, wouldn't mind doing some housing, railways, utilities.

01:26:51.720 That's what it should do.

01:26:52.720 And it should leave the market to do the rest of it and deregulate and let them get on with it.

01:26:56.720 Because most goods and services are better produced by the private sector.

01:26:59.720 That's the, that's the, that's history's favorite child if you get it right.

01:27:03.720 But if you get it wrong, it's another, another combination.

01:27:06.720 I completely agree.

01:27:07.720 Public spending is too high.

01:27:08.720 You're spending on the wrong things.

01:27:10.720 Yeah.

01:27:11.720 I know.

01:27:12.720 I completely agree.

01:27:13.720 Dirty Belter asks a provocative question.

01:27:16.720 What are your thoughts on Islam?

01:27:19.720 Well, I'm, I'm, I'm not a Mohammedan, so I don't follow it.

01:27:23.720 It's a, it's a, it's a challenge for the West.

01:27:28.720 Because Christendom has, has basically the, I think, I think lib, the, the sort of liberalism

01:27:38.720 that we've had post war has made us think it's rather like diversity is our strength.

01:27:43.720 It doesn't matter.

01:27:44.720 You can import very large numbers of people from the Islamic world and it'll have no consequences.

01:27:50.720 It obviously does on our culture and it's very serious.

01:27:53.720 Um, but it's, you know, if you, if you do nothing else, eventually this, this country will become an Islamic country.

01:28:01.720 I believe just on the, I mean, not, not, not, not in 50 years, but, but beyond.

01:28:07.720 Yeah.

01:28:08.720 And, and it's not a, and also I don't think it's the thing that culturally concerns me about

01:28:12.720 Islam is that you've, you've imported at the time when Christendom Europe, Western

01:28:19.720 Europe is shedding its principle belief system.

01:28:21.720 It's got, it's getting rid of Christianity.

01:28:23.720 It's basically collapsing.

01:28:24.720 The only thing that is keeping numbers up in, in the UK is immigration actually, largely.

01:28:29.720 Uh, so the, the, the, at the same time that you're shedding yourself, your principal foundational

01:28:35.720 belief and you're with all the doubt that that entails, you're importing people that don't

01:28:40.720 have any doubts at all.

01:28:41.720 No doubts at all and are sure of it, uh, sure of what they believe.

01:28:46.720 And, um, that is a problem we need to face up to, I think.

01:28:51.720 And the, there's also a, a, a distinct mismatch between the liberal state being a rational

01:28:57.720 materialist, uh, philosophical construct and Islam being a religion.

01:29:02.720 Well, it's not.

01:29:03.720 Yeah.

01:29:04.720 I mean, it doesn't, but what I, what I mean is it's not, it's not even that.

01:29:08.720 It, it, it's a giant blind spots that the liberal just can't understand what the Muslim

01:29:14.720 is saying.

01:29:15.720 Muslim is saying that God has ordained and therefore, and the liberal being an atheist

01:29:20.720 and transgent atheist their whole lives.

01:29:21.720 And there's completely utilitarian.

01:29:24.720 This goes straight above their head.

01:29:26.720 What, what is the significance of God has ordained to a liberal?

01:29:29.720 Nothing.

01:29:30.720 It means nothing to them.

01:29:31.720 And so the, sorry, go on.

01:29:33.720 Now, can I ask a question on this?

01:29:35.720 Because I think it's very important.

01:29:36.720 So I think that the discourse in leftist philosophy in the 20th century, to a very large extent,

01:29:43.720 argues against individualism saying that no man is an island into himself and that we

01:29:49.720 are influenced by our surrounding environment.

01:29:52.720 So how did the left move from that belief and that criticism to culture and environment

01:29:59.720 doesn't matter?

01:30:00.720 It's a, it's a form of pretense, isn't it?

01:30:04.720 Is it, they're pretending that the world is like this when it's really like this?

01:30:09.720 I mean, that's the problem.

01:30:10.720 I mean, that's the problem.

01:30:11.720 I mean, people, the, the, the, the issue with Islam is as a belief system, it is very,

01:30:17.720 very different from the one we, that is our foundational one.

01:30:21.720 And Tom Holland said recently, he said, he considered, I think I've got it right, uniquely indigestible,

01:30:27.720 he describes it as.

01:30:29.720 Perhaps he's right.

01:30:30.720 I mean, but it's not something that's, it's a bit like I would, I don't think the people

01:30:34.720 that govern us have taken any of this seriously at all for years.

01:30:37.720 And the, the, the, the strategy is, is to pretend there's no conflict and pretend it's

01:30:43.720 all fine.

01:30:44.720 But certainly it's, I, I, I've argued for a long time.

01:30:48.720 There's one of, there's a very good economic case for ending mass migration, but there's

01:30:53.720 a very good cultural case as well.

01:30:55.720 Both actually are important if you care about your culture.

01:30:58.720 Um, I hate to say it, but we're out of time there.

01:31:01.720 But, um, right.

01:31:02.720 So where, where can people go to find more from the SDP?

01:31:04.720 Well, I'm William Cluston on X, uh, so you can have a look at us there and the, the,

01:31:08.720 we're on YouTube.

01:31:09.720 If you social democratic party, you'll find us and sdp.org.uk is the main website with

01:31:14.720 all the serious work on it, policies and green papers and the rest of it.

01:31:18.720 Well, thanks so much for coming on.

01:31:19.720 Very kind.

01:31:20.720 Thank you for joining us folks.

01:31:21.720 And we will see you tomorrow.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - November 05, 2025

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1289

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