The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1321

00:00:00.000 hi folks welcome to the podcast alert seaters for friday the 19th of december 2025 it is

00:00:04.880 finally friday uh wait but that also means we're six days out from christmas so i hope you've got

00:00:09.740 your presents nick i'm working on it you mean for you i don't know for me what do you get the man

00:00:15.780 that has everything literally i don't need anything but like you know uh anyway i'm joined

00:00:20.260 by nick dixon and beau and today we're going to be talking about the uh incredible uh dialectical

00:00:26.640 events at america fest um starmer's latest victim of speech crimes and why well i can't tell you

00:00:34.780 actually why the australian police decided to radicalize some kid last year and i only discovered

00:00:39.720 this the other day and so i thought we'd just do a little thing talking about because it's actually

00:00:43.080 absolutely bonkers the australian kids but the australian police are basically grooming

00:00:48.040 this autistic muslim kid to become a terrorist and it's like why did you do this but anyway i haven't

00:00:56.000 answered that one yet but anyway this is the dream team from last week have you noticed back again

00:00:59.380 oh is it it's like a new podcast in itself the best of the best yeah you're very welcome folks

00:01:03.840 uh but right okay let's um let's begin all right so seeing as it's friday i thought maybe we could

00:01:09.540 have a nice relaxing easy segment nothing too controversial nothing too spicy so the jq

00:01:15.340 you can't just say that sorry the iq as nick was saying yeah really questions well the point is is

00:01:22.820 that it's come out the turning point has got a thing at the moment going on in america the america

00:01:28.500 fest the am fest and the conversation is about the hearts and minds of american conservatives between

00:01:35.920 israel first or america first correct so that's the conversation that's happening

00:01:40.400 right so i thought we well we've got kind of got to talk about it it's like shapiro versus tucker

00:01:45.820 basically right i mean it's what's happening on the right right yeah and i watched the whole tucker

00:01:50.860 carlson speech on the train i thought it was very good other people are team shapiro you've got to

00:01:55.380 pick basically kind of i mean i've said here we've said here a number of times i'm obviously not pro

00:02:03.500 islam i despise hamas but i'm not pro jewish i'm not pro israeli i haven't got any jewish heritage i'm

00:02:10.760 an englishman why would i be pro israeli i don't have any allegiance to israel whatsoever right

00:02:15.620 despite what someone like nick griffin would say that low seat is funded by zionists shocking

00:02:21.880 we're simply not we saved up for this ourselves nick yeah yeah sorry to to pop that bubble get

00:02:28.960 your lawyer on it some people say ironic if he was an israeli lawyer but fiscal conservatives don't

00:02:33.240 know what to tell you so some griper some homelanders and people say we're funded by

00:02:37.500 jewish money we just can't i don't know what to tell you i don't know how many times i have to say

00:02:41.840 we're not okay other people say you'll probably become clear throughout this segment

00:02:47.700 but when i throw shade at ukraine we get accused of being funded by russians yeah sorry it's just

00:02:56.000 not the case so okay we have to do a quick uh a quick show for the bow show breakfast with bow

00:03:00.880 that's coming up as a 5th of january these are cool mugs man uh so there's uh if you can see that

00:03:06.420 on the screen i don't know if it's on screen there's all sorts of merch that you can get t-shirts

00:03:10.220 and stuff i don't have a cool mug like that yeah that's a cool mug it's like your face but in an

00:03:14.540 impressionistic impression yeah i say it's almost surreal to me that there's merch that's like bow

00:03:19.860 themed how did that happen when did that happen and you better tell people when the bow show is

00:03:24.480 starting yeah 5th of january 2026 from 8 a.m to 9 a.m greenwich meantime five days a week just

00:03:32.700 talking about the news uh that day what's in the news cycle that day from around the world as well

00:03:37.440 and uh maybe have a few guests on sometimes some mornings have guests on um so yeah should be fun

00:03:44.640 yeah all right let's get into it so um yes turning points america fest just a big conference of sort

00:03:54.120 of right-leaning conservative people in america and uh it's split opinion should we say now al johnny on

00:04:00.740 the spot our man in havana that was there was calvin robinson father calvin robinson let's see what he

00:04:07.640 says he says day one of amfest erica kirk was introduced by a vt of charlie kirk which was eerie

00:04:14.460 yet moving powerful stuff no one puts a show like turning point usa next level stuff so a vt is that

00:04:20.640 like a an ai rendering of him or something well videotape isn't it vt yeah so i i think it's just

00:04:27.640 footage isn't it he's saying i don't know yeah yeah anyway most of the intros were like the best i

00:04:32.500 watched the other intros they were like best of sort of montages that's what it would have been

00:04:36.680 probably ben shapiro crashed out and argued to de-platform his fellow speakers russell brand not

00:04:44.240 sure why russell brand was in there isn't he currently on trial for things is he a right wing

00:04:48.060 russell brand right wing he is now because he's a christian he did a yeah i haven't watched his

00:04:53.980 speech yet but tucker carlson also referred to him in his speech said my good friend russell brand

00:04:57.660 to him russell brand's a funny one isn't he because he's sort of kind of i mean he came out as uh i

00:05:02.880 remember when ed milliband was running at the general election at the last moment he came out and

00:05:06.640 said i know i've been telling you not to vote at all for ages but vote labor yeah i think maybe he's

00:05:12.340 changed his stance in then because that was fair a few years ago i view him as kind of like a left-wing

00:05:15.840 david ike yeah i mean david ike's one of the right-wing david ike yeah um i think russell

00:05:21.960 brand has just got his own opinions like truly just got his own opinions on most things definitely

00:05:26.220 been on a journey he was kind of a quasi-communist at one point yes then he's now he's an evangelical

00:05:30.600 christian you know i don't even mind his takes his takes are at least not predictable yeah yeah smart

00:05:36.760 guy yeah smart cookie russell brand gave the best evangelical preaching i've seen in america says

00:05:42.180 father robinson uh michael know knolls inadvertently threw shade over his boss

00:05:47.720 with a sensible remark about loyalty to foreign flags like michael knolls yeah i didn't get time

00:05:52.960 to watch his speech but he's been saying a few things lately where he's a bit like oh

00:05:55.840 what did that mean like it's like one of those is he trying to i don't think he's trying to get sad

00:05:59.800 it was always the thing with matt walsh isn't it but knolls has recently said a few things where

00:06:02.540 like can you can you say that i was just gonna say about matt walsh like occasionally says

00:06:05.660 something surely ben shapiro can't be happy with that yeah what matt walsh just said there but

00:06:09.860 knolls has been in the same but in such a genteel way that you just almost don't notice

00:06:13.680 yeah seems like a nice polite guy he is it'd be nice to have a drink or a meal with him i've had

00:06:19.260 dinner with him oh have you it's a very nice to try yes the impression i get yeah uh tucker

00:06:23.460 cullson absolutely smashed it out of the park with humor generosity towards his persecutors

00:06:28.180 and a generally uh christian idea of conservatism charlie kirk's presence was truly missed god rest

00:06:35.420 it feels like uh he was the glue keeping the conservative movement together in america

00:06:40.380 without him it is either going to split or implode the audience was divided between america first and

00:06:45.700 zionist i mean so that's the thing this is this is the conversation now that's broken out into

00:06:51.040 sort of mainstream conversation uh these are competing ideologies and the tent of ideas is

00:06:58.300 seemingly not big enough to contain them both forever uh where's the liar uh there's a general

00:07:04.280 consensus that truth must prevail the father robinson said the truth is jesus christ the

00:07:10.140 majority seems to understand that christ is king god bless am fest p.s just before we move on

00:07:15.960 that's not a terribly controversial perspective for american right wingers to have

00:07:19.400 that seems to be a fairly straightforward american christian perspective oh yeah just and just

00:07:27.540 christian perspective but particularly in america they think this but sorry carry on well p.s

00:07:32.320 the opening preacher did not pray for the united states of america nor did he pray for the church

00:07:36.860 he did pray for the state of israel that's a bit weird

00:07:40.300 well it's a little bit isn't it a bit odd it's very odd i mean if you were i don't know just if

00:07:48.520 you were like i don't know uh some sort of you know convention in britain or something and they

00:07:54.880 said to lead a prayer for france or just any other country you'd be like what's going on why are we

00:08:00.000 doing this now i'm saying uh i'm saying nothing because i don't want to jeopardize the funding

00:08:03.280 i'm only here like once a week and it seems rude

00:08:07.080 yeah i'll be in there back as we pull

00:08:11.320 so uh i suppose let's start with ben shapiro um yeah let's just listen to to this bit

00:08:20.800 i mean it's amazing to see the energy in the place and obviously you know i think everyone feels pretty

00:08:26.400 bittersweet about everything that's going on it's very difficult not to feel incredibly bitter and

00:08:31.040 heartbroken at the fact that last time we were all here charlie was with us and charlie was

00:08:35.920 being charlie and just being you know his usual incredibly lively and entertaining and fascinating

00:08:42.860 self uh and and obviously before we go any further with anything we always have to think of erica and

00:08:47.840 the kids and also all of his friends who continue to run the organization so well

00:08:52.060 um yeah but as far as the sweet part i mean the the energy here is extraordinary i mean just walking

00:08:58.180 through the hallways you can see the energy you can see how many people want to carry on charlie's

00:09:01.980 legacy uh shortly after charlie's murder i said that we would all have to pick up the torch together and

00:09:07.040 i think that that you are seeing that so i think that that's a wonderful thing okay that's all fair

00:09:12.700 enough isn't it always good here's what he said on on stage though if we agree with a guest that's fine

00:09:18.860 but we should own it so for example if you host a hitler apologist nazi loving anti-american

00:09:24.860 piece of refuse like nick fuentes who's he talking about if you host this guy

00:09:34.300 you know the nick fuentes who said that the vice president of the united states is a quote

00:09:38.700 fat gay race traitor married to a jeet the person who said that charlie kirk was a quote

00:09:44.220 retarded idiot the person who said and pardon my language here it's his quote that he quotes

00:09:49.580 took turning point usa and fucked it and that's why it's filled with gripers if you have that person

00:09:54.780 on your show and you proceed to glaze him you ought to own it

00:09:57.980 there is a reason that charlie kirk despised nick fuentes and indeed even chided dinesh d'souza for

00:10:13.660 debating him he knew that nick fuentes is an evil troll and that building him up is an act of moral

00:10:18.620 imbecility and that is precisely what tucker carlson did he built nick fuentes up and he ought to take

00:10:24.460 responsibility for that just as he ought to take responsibility for glazing pornographer and alleged

00:10:29.500 sex trafficker andrew tate or for mainstreaming fake historian and pseudo nazi apologist daryl cooper

00:10:35.660 as america's best and most honest popular historian at this point some comment from us that's declaration

00:10:43.260 of war yeah like sorry ben but we were carrying the torch for charlie kirk and suddenly it's you know

00:10:51.020 what we should be doing is de-platforming one of the fellow speakers at this event yeah i thought

00:10:55.740 also mentioning the whole jeep thing was a bit tasteless to actually say the words because because

00:10:59.740 like i don't have jd vance is there or he's going to watch it but it still seemed weird to kind of

00:11:03.660 quote it i understand they're not his words overall i thought the whole thing was questionable he can do

00:11:08.860 it if he wants but tuck it came on we'll talk about it maybe later but i watched his whole speech it

00:11:12.700 was so magnanimous and he and he said i'm not going to get drawn into that i can get drawn into hating

00:11:16.620 these people sometimes but it's not christian and he he kind of funny opening jokes where he came on

00:11:20.940 and said i missed the first half anything happened and it was funny but he dealt with it he just

00:11:24.780 wouldn't hit back in the same way but i but i'm seeing those people glazing shapiro on twitter as

00:11:29.660 i was telling you before but it's all the people you'd expect it's all the seth dillans and josh

00:11:33.020 hammer whoever that is it's the people it's the people who liked him anyway and i'm still i'm still

00:11:37.420 team tucker and as i was telling you before i've been alive over four decades sadly i can't

00:11:43.260 go against my all my sense data and pretend that mark levin is a better guy than tucker because all

00:11:48.460 my senses tell me that's just can't be true and i and i also prefer tucker to shapiro but we're

00:11:53.020 supposed to the other thing about it is i'll just quickly say this loyalty thing shapiro in the full

00:11:58.860 speech says you can't back people just because you're friends with them but i'm not going to

00:12:02.700 denounce my friends publicly because you tell me to that's what tucker said and that is my position

00:12:07.340 maybe that is some sort of loyalist some sort of clannish thing or something but if you said

00:12:11.340 oh dispo and carl because they're disavowed them i just never would i just not in me so i can't do

00:12:16.780 that so i'm with talk on that as well well it's this thing that ben shapiro i think is a bit behind

00:12:21.900 the curve that there's something fundamentally wrong with platforming people you don't like

00:12:26.300 or don't agree with it's a very leftist position that like daryl cooper cannot have a platform

00:12:32.300 andrew tate is not allowed to speak in public right nick fuentes must be denied

00:12:37.260 no and most people are not really agreeing with that for example when piers morgan had nick fuentes

00:12:43.020 on most people even like uh lefties and stuff uh were agreeing that it wasn't wrong-headed it

00:12:49.340 wasn't in principle wrong to platform him or have a conversation with him but that's where shapiro

00:12:54.940 seems to be still i think the main issue is that tucker carlson didn't spend a lot of time disagreeing

00:13:00.140 with nick fuentes all right yeah that's the issue okay probably that is just on your point as well

00:13:04.940 um he gets tucker in his speech said oh this shut up fascist which is just the same as shut up racist

00:13:10.460 in fact it might be more annoying is what he said so that's what they're all doing as for the didn't

00:13:14.860 push back probably that is then you're down a slippery slope of i'm going to dictate to you tucker

00:13:19.100 carlson one of the most popular broadcasters in america and therefore the world how to do your show

00:13:24.380 it's just like he's got more views than you he's a better monologues than basically anyone

00:13:29.980 set perhaps fantas himself and it's just like why is it up to shapiro how tucker conducts his

00:13:34.940 interviews of course he can say how he would want to do it but it's not i think it's weird if i started

00:13:39.020 telling you carl you had this person on but you didn't really push back enough i think you'd probably

00:13:42.140 want to like slap me i think it's awful isn't it or is that or you think it's a valid thing he didn't

00:13:47.660 push back enough the thing is what i perceive in all of this is two rival power structures

00:13:56.140 within this coalition that are vying for supremacy and one power structure

00:14:03.900 is dependent on a certain kind of narrative for its success for its um for its power and this is why

00:14:13.980 i think ben shapiro is so angry i mean this is just the angriest i think i've ever seen ben shapiro

00:14:18.060 about anything because i think he views the authority of his wing the zionist wing of this

00:14:26.220 movement to be completely under threat if any kind of critique is leveled that suggests maybe it shouldn't

00:14:34.220 be the primary point of concern for the movement as a whole and without the ability to just give a

00:14:40.860 little and say no we're important but you are also important then the coalition can't hold right and

00:14:46.860 you'll get this kind of insurrectionist well hang on a second you're saying that we don't matter i mean

00:14:50.860 you say a prayer for israel but not for america what are you doing here you know like without without

00:14:58.060 the admission of friendship between both sides then there can't be any kind of civic policy there you

00:15:04.780 know there's no sort of proper bond that joins them and what ben shapiro has done is not to say

00:15:11.180 look guys i accept the legitimacy of the claim that straight white men are being oppressed in america

00:15:16.140 because they are and it's structural it's institutional we know that this is the case

00:15:21.020 uh instead in fact on on that um the first clip we saw i saw a clip of him saying straight white men

00:15:26.140 just have to man up and just deal with it and it's just just knuckle under and do the thing and it's like

00:15:30.700 no they don't actually why should they be systematically disadvantaged in a way that

00:15:36.860 you feel you're not because if you were being systemically disadvantaged in the same way you'd

00:15:41.020 be like hang on a second this is anti-semitism this is anti-jewish this is unacceptable how can

00:15:46.380 you do this and so instead of being sympathetic to that and the thing is i'm not even saying ben

00:15:50.540 shapiro has been arguing for this state of affairs he hasn't been he's been very consistent over the

00:15:55.420 years that he thinks it should be a meritocracy that should be colorblind blah blah blah so it's not

00:15:59.580 like he's even been in favor of the oppression of the straight white men he's always been against

00:16:03.500 the left on this so why he can't say no i think they have a point actually they have been systematically

00:16:11.820 disadvantaged and in fact we need to either help them because they're close friends and allies of

00:16:18.220 ours or change the structures of everything anyway what why can't ben shapiro put out a hand of

00:16:24.540 friendship to these people and say no we need to help you and it's because i think he feels that

00:16:30.460 any kind of like releasing the grip that the zionists have over that's wing of politics means

00:16:37.660 the whole thing dissolves yeah and that's why he's so worried about platforming people i mean surely if

00:16:42.300 you've got the stronger ideas you're not worried about that although you're saying it's about whether

00:16:46.140 you push back but on the other point did you see the clip where shapiro said white christian men

00:16:51.580 especially young white christian men have been attacked relentlessly in america to the point

00:16:55.500 where they now feel they're an identity group he said they feel they are it was very clear he was

00:16:59.660 saying they weren't he said they got the idea is another thing he said that they are i'm like so

00:17:03.340 they can be attacked as a group but they're not a group but and the only thing i'd say if you also

00:17:07.500 the way you denoted them they're young straight white men well that's you've just denoted a group

00:17:11.820 you've just stipulated exactly yeah just carved them out as a group said they've been attacked

00:17:15.260 relentlessly and that's been wrong and now they think they're a group it's like well it sounds like they are

00:17:18.940 but the other thing is but if your position is this sort of liberal classic liberal meritocratic

00:17:22.540 sort of no no we don't have groups but it's that shapiro's position because it seems to me

00:17:27.420 just as a layman he uh he fairly he's a fairly staunch advocate of identity politics for his group

00:17:33.980 so i could take it if you're sort of like someone like andrew doyle who's like would just be

00:17:37.740 completely down the line compare and say we we don't want to have these identity groups and actually

00:17:42.060 tucker is saying that in his speech shapiro has always had this inconsistency yeah yeah i mean you ask

00:17:47.020 like why does ben shapiro do that i mean the answer is that his first primary allegiance is

00:17:53.900 to his his own in-group his own his own tribe israel whatever you want to call it zionism it's to that

00:18:00.940 before american conservatism seems to me i mean i don't think that's in any real doubt um and what

00:18:07.580 what i find interesting here as well just a quick before we go on is look at the angle of attack right

00:18:12.780 he's saying nick he's he's attacking him on ideological lines he's not saying nick fuentes

00:18:17.500 has committed a crime he's not saying that nick fuentes has given money to the democrats or something

00:18:22.220 like this right he hasn't physically done anything what he has done is committed a series of ideological

00:18:27.340 crimes and therefore these are inexcusable so okay yeah look nick fuentes says a lot of stuff and a lot

00:18:32.780 of it's stuff i don't agree with but the point is really what does nick fuentes represent and what i think

00:18:38.300 he represents is those dispossessed straight white young men who as a group have been targeted and as

00:18:44.380 a group are being held back in ben shapiro's mind they're not allowed to advocate for their own

00:18:49.260 interests okay well are we going to get the andrew doyle ultimate classical liberal where no one gets

00:18:54.620 to have a group which is unlikely or are we going to have to concede this is a group of people who were

00:19:00.300 systematically disadvantaged and therefore have a genuine claim to recognition and rights yeah a more

00:19:06.140 reasonable question would be or approach from shapiro et al would be yeah how can we give this

00:19:12.460 group recognize their grievances in a more sensible way but if it's just shut up nazi then the iraq you're

00:19:18.060 going to get what you project onto them yes and that's going to that that itself damages any hope of

00:19:23.100 coalition because what you're saying is you're forever outside of the pale and will never ever give

00:19:27.900 you the respect that you deserve it's the thing that everyone in the world it seems is allowed a group

00:19:34.780 identity a national civilization or even racial identity but not white people i mean especially

00:19:42.300 not straight white men right it's not really sustainable is it you've either got to play

00:19:46.620 the game yourself if everyone's playing it or you've got to sort of if it's like in england or america you

00:19:51.660 got to you've got to deport so many people that it goes back to sort of such a homogeneous society

00:19:55.340 that doesn't come up particularly because white people don't tend to have strong and group weapons

00:19:58.620 anyway and because there'd be a vast majority of a country or you basically get wiped out if you

00:20:03.580 refuse to play the game as far as i can see when we get to a clip of tucker in a moment um he we'll

00:20:09.180 talk more about that i'll just let shapiro finish up hosts are indeed responsible for the guests they

00:20:13.500 choose and the questions they ask those guests look his face okay so angry fourth because we have a duty to

00:20:27.260 truth we also have a duty to provide you with evidence of the claims that we make emotive

00:20:32.860 accusations conspiracy theories and just casting questions that's lazy and stupid and misleading

00:20:40.140 none of them are a substitute for truth none of them are a substitute for evidence so when candace owens

00:20:46.220 says i don't know no but i know that is retarded and we are all he's right on that all more retarded for

00:20:56.380 having heard it i mean yeah it has been mental some of the stuff candace is doing i've got nothing

00:21:03.980 against the bit it's just like it's just seems to be a soap opera to keep the viewers hooked there's a

00:21:08.140 new twist each week and to me it's all bollocks it came to me in a dream yeah i've had unnamed sources

00:21:13.660 okay you're all right now it's funny because the the conversation is so toxic that if you say

00:21:19.340 anything that's pro-palestinian you must be a zio shill if you say anything that's pro

00:21:28.140 and the other way around so if you criticize candace owens you must be pro-israeli in some

00:21:32.460 way it's like no i don't think so actually no i don't think so no just the way she's going about it

00:21:37.580 seems to me to it seems to me to be about getting views and creating controversy yeah yeah yeah anyway

00:21:43.420 a vanity project let's hear from tucker so let me just affirm one final time not only am i not an

00:21:50.780 anti-semite and would say so if i was i'm not an anti-semite for a very specific reason not because

00:21:57.500 it's unpopular or my donors don't like it i don't have any donors i'm not an anti-semite because

00:22:04.140 anti-semitism is immoral in my religion it is immoral to hate people for how they were born period

00:22:17.820 but that is not

00:22:21.500 a limited principle that is a universal principle it applies to every human being on planet earth

00:22:29.900 you may not you are prohibited by my religion which is christianity from hating people for how

00:22:36.780 they were born because god created them with his spark in his image because they have souls you can

00:22:44.220 disagree with them you can hate their ideas you may even find yourself and i do i'll confess it hating

00:22:51.420 them for a moment but you can't hate everyone who's like them you can't punish people for crimes they

00:22:58.940 didn't commit that's the basis of our justice system that's the basis of christian ethics that's

00:23:03.980 why we have what are called human rights they apply to every human not just your group not just

00:23:09.100 my group but every group every human because we don't consider people in terms of the groups to

00:23:13.820 which they belong we consider them as individuals the way that god created them

00:23:20.620 so um i'd say that that's the thing that it's like the western liberal paradigm isn't it that

00:23:26.220 we're all individuals and that i mean i think it's falling back on gen x liberalism yeah it's a bit

00:23:33.820 like yeah okay we're all individuals that we're all autonomous units walking around okay but also

00:23:39.500 we're part of a group but nobody is actually born out of time and place no man is an island exactly

00:23:45.500 everyone is born into a web of relations a nation a family right you're completely helpless for however

00:23:51.340 many years into your life dependent on everyone around you you are not just an atomic individual

00:23:57.660 but um yeah where he's really good in the full speech is on the attack on white people he says

00:24:02.060 by the way you can't attack white people anymore than you can jewish people those should be the

00:24:05.020 same seen as the same so he's very good on the sort of defensive aspect yeah then he goes he's

00:24:09.500 done this on a few podcasts he then goes into this universal stuff and it's it's all right in in

00:24:13.980 ideally but it's in reality yeah and it's in the reality we're in now where everyone's

00:24:17.900 uh aggressively asserting their group i don't know how it can work so a lot of the criticism

00:24:23.500 from the sort of america first side is the turning point is to israel first i mean i mean here's a

00:24:31.980 clip here's a clip of erica watch a little bit of this is there anything specific that turning point can

00:24:38.620 do to combat anti-semitism yeah so we are on all of our college campus and high school campuses we have

00:24:46.540 these conversations and our students understand exactly my heart and charlie's heart and the

00:24:52.540 sentiment of everything i just said we have shabbat dinner happening at amfest we have i mean okay

00:25:04.620 like why i mean if i had back dinners what why are you doing that i thought you're america first what's

00:25:08.780 that got to do with anything shabbat dinner if i was at like you know the conservative party conference

00:25:13.420 or something and they were like yeah we're britain first and then we're going to have an eid dinner

00:25:17.420 or something i'd be like yeah right that's not yeah i don't i don't want that yeah i'm an american

00:25:23.180 if you're in america i'm an american why would i have that yeah i'm in england why would i have an

00:25:27.660 eid dinner or shabbat dinner um i'm english but i mean this guy i've never heard of this guy before but

00:25:33.100 i just thought it was an interesting take that a lot of people saying about about amfest so amfest is this

00:25:41.740 atrocious tp usa organized bizarre where republicans from all over the country come to get drunk and

00:25:50.780 have sex with each other in the most debaucherous manner possible republicans who in all other walks

00:25:57.500 of their lives would not be considered cool or attractive or fun this is their one opportunity

00:26:05.660 to all convene in one place and suck and each other and do drugs and have orgies but all of

00:26:11.980 course in the name of of conservative campus activism and get this it is billed as a youth gathering

00:26:20.940 but this is what the audience looks like don't worry we really are we are really reaching out to the

00:26:28.060 youth don't you see and in reality it's 50 to 60 year old aunties who are getting underage kids

00:26:34.780 drunk so that they can go prey on them at parties later and then e-horse going to get dicked down by

00:26:40.700 their whatever donor they think is going to fund their next podcast before they go on stage and

00:26:45.980 give a speech about so you get the criticism so that's where i need to go to get the funding

00:26:50.460 i know what i need to do so yeah i mean there's just there's all these various uh conferences

00:26:57.100 like tory party conference people said it's actually just an excuse to party really

00:27:03.100 nigel farage and the pretty patel dancing away yeah and like things like the arc conference on one

00:27:08.780 level it's sort of my personal opinion on one level it's sort of uh cringe and lame but on another

00:27:14.780 level it's necessarily valuable well the i mean it was a lot more reserved i i went to the last one

00:27:20.140 and there wasn't anyone having like orgies or anything that is much more maybe that didn't get

00:27:24.860 invited uh yeah it was it was it was a lot more reserved i actually quite enjoyed it the one i went

00:27:29.660 to the one before which was apparently much better but the um that's when the orgy happens that was

00:27:35.580 when it was the hardcore um no i hate all that stuff though it reminds me of um the wretched hive of

00:27:41.180 scum and villainy from star wars you go up one of these conferences i don't go i'm not allowed

00:27:44.460 at them but like conservative party conferences they're all like why is it all so much degeneracy and the

00:27:48.860 apotheosis of this is bonnie blue endorsing reform everyone being fine with it there was like it's

00:27:53.980 always bothered me i've been to other events and i wrote about them and got and speaking of donors i

00:27:57.900 actually uh alienated like a billionaire writing this article but it was me saying this is supposed

00:28:03.820 to be conservative or something and yet i'm at this event and it's just it's like was debauchery and

00:28:08.620 i was just writing about it going this is awful but all these conservative movements seem to have this

00:28:13.900 they don't seem to have any actual conservative principles when when it gets down to it

00:28:16.860 yeah so maybe i'm just a puritan i am i think okay so i think i'm out of time on that one okay

00:28:23.180 well um all right well that was abrupt yeah that was abrupt uh in summary though basically in summary

00:28:32.220 this has to be made in summary there's uh some questions we had about whether america first

00:28:37.580 is truly america first or or israel first that's jd vance there oh just rubio i mean the last of the

00:28:45.100 funding there in case there was any doubt yeah i don't think netanyahu is giving us that check now

00:28:50.380 is that him there is him there as well

00:28:55.660 all right let's move on okay can i uh have the mouse because i want to this one is um let me do

00:29:01.740 the soup chats first okay uh danny says i think nick represents the continuation of the shift towards

00:29:06.540 the right trump farage seemed to be the most palatable figures that both elites in general public

00:29:10.540 and stomach that's uh changing um i i genuinely think this is a part of a long-running alliance

00:29:16.300 that has taken for granted one side of the equation and when that side of the equation is saying no look

00:29:22.940 we are now systematically disadvantaged we need you to show some compassion and to get on board with

00:29:29.740 fixing things for us the bench pyro types are like no you're a you're a nazi and we hate you forever

00:29:35.260 it's like okay well this is an alliance that's not going to last right it's just not going to last

00:29:40.940 um i mean as uh calvin said the tent doesn't seem big enough yeah they're deliberately shrinking

00:29:48.060 the tent even it is weird how charlie kirk seemed to be holding it all together no one would have

00:29:51.820 thought that but it does seem that way cranky texan says i went to multiple turning point events

00:29:56.380 between the last two elections none of the speakers were daily wire people now they're all over them

00:30:00.380 interesting engage for you says your new show needs a segment called in bows britain where you

00:30:04.940 propose a new rule for your extremely english paradise um a drunk changeling says mosside isn't

00:30:09.980 funding us carl said with the voice of a spurned lover um it's quite funny just saying we never got

00:30:17.020 the call base tape says you should call the bow show the morning brow also uh will the show be taking

00:30:23.740 video comments i have a shiba puppy named bow and i have ideas for a competing parody show

00:30:28.060 uh are you gonna be taking video comments uh we haven't really discussed that but i'm not

00:30:32.620 against it i would i could why not why not yeah absolutely why not got the function quite right

00:30:37.820 says god blessings to you over christmas new year's eve thank you to you too uh have my yearly

00:30:42.780 pilgrimage to lockerby tomorrow to pay my respects so rather melancholy weekend for me

00:30:46.700 blimey uh doom hand says you you were either america first or you aren't personally i don't think

00:30:51.740 choosing to fund any ally at the severe cost of your own citizenry is america first merry christmas uh

00:30:56.700 and i agree but anyway let's uh let's carry on all right well if the last segment didn't lose our

00:31:00.780 funding this one will i mean this one it's quite controversial it's starmer's latest victim another

00:31:06.460 person has been jailed for speech crimes now what he said kids was not great don't don't say these

00:31:12.140 don't post these things this is my general especially in britain on the internet yeah exactly

00:31:15.820 this is my health and safety notice don't post these things but the question remains should he go to jail

00:31:21.260 and is it proportionate compared to other sentences we see even from the same judge so twitter users

00:31:27.020 jailed for 18 months for two anti-immigration tweets two by the way those are rookie numbers

00:31:31.900 you've got to get those numbers up is all i'm saying i'm just just joking these are all satirical

00:31:36.540 content two tweets made after christmas market car attack that were viewed just 33 times which is

00:31:41.820 extraordinary i mean as we've established i'm not good at math but that's 16.5 each this is going to be

00:31:47.660 one of those examples where there's a very traumatic context that has been completely ignored isn't there

00:31:53.340 that is also true yes which is the german attack so this is a luke yarwood 36 received an 18 month

00:32:00.460 sentence after tweeting in the wake of the christmas market car attack in magdeburg germany so he was

00:32:05.740 responding to that and people didn't know that much about it at the time but it was an emotive

00:32:09.260 response to that his posts were reported to the police by yarwood's own brother-in-law who he did not

00:32:13.980 get on with nice isn't that is low isn't it and as uh morgoth says his brother-in-law who he didn't

00:32:19.580 get on with snitched on him so in the uk we've entered soviet union charity where the state bureaucracy

00:32:24.220 can be cynically weaponized for petty grievances hard to argue with that um so oh hang on i think

00:32:31.020 of like the camera rouge where they very very very deliberately wanted your family to snitch on you

00:32:37.260 because it's what you say in the privacy of your own home at your own kitchen table sort of thing right

00:32:41.340 yeah exactly you're almost candid so if you get the children often the children to inform on you

00:32:47.820 yeah exactly siobhan lindsley prosecuting said yarwood's extremely unpleasant posts had the

00:32:52.140 potential to trigger disorder at one of three high-profile migrant hotels in bournemouth dorset

00:32:56.860 near to where he lives so it's the potential but his barrister argued the posts have been

00:33:00.700 viewed 33 times between them and with the impotent rantings of a socially isolated man that's the

00:33:05.340 guy defending him by the way that had no real world consequences and it is hard to argue with that

00:33:11.020 i mean it's i mean he got 33 views so yeah so what are they doing so what are these tweets what

00:33:16.860 what are they as bad as they may be what are they actually affecting um so but the judge jonathan

00:33:21.900 fuller said his odious tweets were designed to stir up racial hatred and incite violence and and jailed

00:33:26.940 them so uh and yeah this was the day after the that car attack where six people were killed we know

00:33:31.820 what he actually said i'm going to get onto it okay i'm just giving the grounds before it's kind of the

00:33:35.900 it's quite bad so i'm giving you but i'm giving you the i'm giving you the context so so he replied

00:33:41.020 to a tweet about thousands of germans taken to the streets he said head for the hotels housing them

00:33:45.100 and burn them to the ground was one of them he said i think it's time for the british to gang

00:33:48.780 together hit the streets and start the slaughter again worse than lucy connolly yeah exactly don't

00:33:53.340 tweet this at home kids this is what i'm saying um and he said violence and murder is the only way now so

00:33:59.340 these they're not great tweets he's gone off on one completely he's definitely don't definitely

00:34:04.380 don't post it but the question yeah it is the law i mean i'm not saying it's right or fair i would

00:34:09.740 like a much more us style freedom of speech but it is the law even then this probably falls outside

00:34:15.580 of that yeah yeah yeah that's literally saying we need to take to the streets and murder them all

00:34:19.820 and i did wonder that is the law that's why i said i might have done a different segment but i got

00:34:23.420 a hand injury and i couldn't do it on the trade so i was like let's just do this one because

00:34:26.300 let's just look at it fairly um so that is like okay yeah so that that will get you banged up in

00:34:32.060 this country but i'll be getting banged up in america that's yeah that's interesting but is it but

00:34:36.620 would it because is it incitement when it's viewed by 33 people america in the first amendment it's got

00:34:42.220 to be like it's got to have a an immediate you if you're saying go and get that person now and they

00:34:47.180 could do it yeah but just tweeting to 33 people these mad things that no one's seen does it does it do

00:34:53.660 that that's the question well that's for the judges to decide but that's pretty beyond people

00:34:59.340 can decide um so yeah bad tweets i feel like if his brother-in-law hadn't squealed on him it would

00:35:05.740 never have got to call that's the other do you feel like that but no one would have seen it not

00:35:09.100 that that's really the point but yeah what's behind it though so the actual tweets are really bad

00:35:15.260 but you've got to wonder what's behind it so there's this bit i'm trying to find out where the

00:35:19.180 the they say um they say that his it's they sort of they talk about his general views so one thing

00:35:24.700 he wrote was walking for ages and not hearing a word of english in warmer right but isn't that just

00:35:30.460 that's just factual isn't it yeah but they're sort of using this to build a case against him

00:35:34.300 these kind of views in general that are not allowed um he also wrote about his disgust at asylum

00:35:40.140 seekers outside the hotel staring at young college girls again just what he's seeing you know if he

00:35:47.020 said at the end which is completely normal due to cultural difference it isn't their fault he'd be

00:35:51.100 okay and if he said not hearing a word of english for ages which is great he'd be okay but these

00:35:56.460 these are all views that you're not allowed obviously pretty normal views yeah and so the prosecution

00:36:02.220 said that uh this was there was a pattern and that he was angry about the presence of muslims and

00:36:06.540 foreigners in britain and it was rooted in his belief the problem with that is that belief on its own

00:36:11.260 is millions of british people yes so they're built i understand the actual tweets are bad but the

00:36:15.820 building of the case is all around ideological things that are basically not allowed in the

00:36:20.700 country or just view normal views that are not allowed which is anger about immigration which

00:36:25.500 is completely ubiquitous almost so yeah so the prosecution said there are ongoing protests daily

00:36:31.580 around asylum hotels up and down the country they're having to be policed we are not in immediate risk

00:36:36.060 of widespread disorder but the atmosphere is not one of calm in the country around this issue but that's

00:36:41.100 exactly why he's posting this because he's part of that unrest isn't he so anyway the defense said

00:36:47.500 there's no evidence that it had any real world consequences they're the impotent rantings of a

00:36:51.420 socially isolated man with fragile mental health you're like thanks mate but it is clear he is

00:36:55.980 my twitter buyer yeah but as bad as the posts were he is he is not the power he's the powerless one here

00:37:02.620 being made an example of i'd still say and then the uh defense had to go on and say the defendant at

00:37:09.020 heart is not a racist he simply found this to be a convenient channel for his discontent

00:37:13.820 again so you see there that the ultimate thing that's still the worst to be is is a racist even

00:37:18.380 post grooming gangs that's still sort of in there is like that's so basically what i'm saying is even

00:37:25.100 though the tweets are awful all this language around it you see clearly it's it's ideological

00:37:30.380 um if you ask me anyway did uh did the lord young toby young help this fella out i suppose it maybe

00:37:36.860 it didn't come up and it's maybe it's just not a particularly sympathetic case as i said to be

00:37:40.940 honest with you i think the tweets probably are criminal well no they they are even yeah you know

00:37:48.940 it's kind of a slam dunk really yeah the prosecutor would have thought don't tweet that we should go

00:37:53.340 and murder a bunch of people well you know what i mean you say you know even people like andrew

00:37:57.980 dole say you shouldn't go to prison for tweets so that's the question should you go for prison for a

00:38:00.860 tweet even if it's that if it does it qualify for the bathroom incitement and if it doesn't

00:38:06.620 should you go to jail this is a question you think you think you should no no let me be clear if it

00:38:11.020 was up to me i would have very very close to complete freedom of expression if it was up to me

00:38:16.460 what i'm saying is it's not it isn't and these are the laws that are in place right now which is

00:38:21.180 unjust and unfair and not how i would do it but that is the reality though and this is that you have

00:38:25.900 to deal with if you're going to post things on twitter and this is very clearly across the line

00:38:29.900 right you know because most of them are like like the lucy connelly one you say was approaching the

00:38:34.620 line you know you burn the things down for all i care is not an imperative to go and burn down

00:38:39.740 the thing that's say not my problem not my business uh this is an imperative so yeah but i would argue

00:38:45.260 perhaps that if it's the 33 people as bad as it sounds yeah i don't disagree it's not it's not

00:38:51.100 going to actually is actually going to inspire anyone to do anything and as the defense is arguing no it's

00:38:55.580 not and i think that's correct i mean yeah i agree who is going to do it one it's only

00:38:59.740 33 people they'd have to get up and say right he's posted that i'm off out now to go and attack

00:39:04.860 a lot of people it seems to me vanishingly unlikely i agree and i'm with beau i'd have basically nothing

00:39:11.740 you could tweet that would send you to jail well yeah ideally um and yeah well the other thing i

00:39:18.780 think to take into account here is an 18 month prison sentence isn't that less than lucy connelly

00:39:25.100 i mean it just seems to me okay you've you've got these these bull plop laws in place and he's

00:39:30.700 broken them all right okay that's where we are now so what some community service a small fine no 18

00:39:37.180 months banged up that seems that particularly seems insane to me yeah yeah and we'll get into that

00:39:44.300 because because the same judge was much more lean on other people so yeah and that's what i'm going to

00:39:49.020 get into where we'll be more sympathetic that part i think i'm just looking for this um thing about our

00:39:52.860 community oh there we go so this is another sort of buzzword of the the regime the continuing safety

00:39:57.740 and stability of our communities are undermined by actions such as yours this phrase our community

00:40:02.460 hadn't really heard it that much until southport and it was constantly banded around by starmer

00:40:06.220 and people like that and it just means minority communities with special rights that natives don't

00:40:11.020 have that's all it means basically means violent muslim ghettos is what it means that have their own

00:40:16.460 community leaders which are their own quasi police who say put your weapons in the mosque

00:40:20.700 so as soon as you say our communities when you're someone in authority i'm sort of already thinking

00:40:24.860 okay this is ideological i mean the judge says this is not a court of politics but law but i say is that

00:40:30.460 really true um no i wouldn't say that's true at all i mean but anyway i'm sorry you know that's it

00:40:36.860 it ends by saying the judge says there are serious offenses they are serious offenses that could

00:40:41.500 have had serious consequences and can only be marked only be marked by a sentence of immediate

00:40:45.820 imprisonment and so then you go okay fine and yet the same judge not more of the same judge here

00:40:52.300 uh let a man caught with uh child abuse images walk free with 40 days of community service

00:40:58.380 which was this guy alex fisher you know why right that doesn't imperil any of our communities no this

00:41:03.980 is the issue like the other guy oh he might have caused um civic disharmony by inspiring one community to

00:41:10.700 attack another would have been bad this not a problem really the the the liberal order will

00:41:15.740 continue all day every day no matter how many children are abused and how many yeah so it is

00:41:21.020 political in that sense the idea that there isn't a two-tier justice system is just not tenable

00:41:26.140 no right i remember when uh sir keir was in the oval office and jd vance was trying to

00:41:32.700 cheer him out a bit and he was just simply saying no there just isn't a problem with three

00:41:36.620 free speech in britain there just isn't a two-tier system you're just incorrect change advance it's

00:41:41.260 like well disagree disagree yeah just disagree but this is the point where the judge says oh

00:41:47.260 this isn't political this is about the law no a the law is of course political because it's made

00:41:51.180 by politicians right so first things first how could you have a non-political law in any sense right

00:41:57.020 unless the law was set by the church or something but anyway like a all the laws are political but b

00:42:01.980 you literally said it yourself i'm i'm here concerned mostly about our communities and the

00:42:07.820 political harmony between the communities caught with nonce images well you know 40 days suspended

00:42:14.220 sentence or whatever he got yeah it's like it's that's not a that's it's literally that doesn't cause

00:42:19.180 political problems therefore i don't really care about it this does cause political problems

00:42:23.500 therefore 18 months in jail right and as bad as you may think those tweets they or as bad as they

00:42:28.140 seem to obviously be they can't be as bad as as child abuse images and things like that they

00:42:32.860 can't be in the same league right right and so anyone in their right mind has got to agree with

00:42:37.980 that what you just said surely surely but not this judge here's the same judge jonathan fuller sentencing

00:42:43.580 andrew berry in 2017 convicted of possessing several thousand pornographic images of children so

00:42:48.460 and he also had a previous conviction for sexual abuse of children so they 24 month community order

00:42:55.180 yeah and his defense even said well he didn't hurt anyone but his article actually points out what

00:42:59.500 he did and i checked this one with the article last one was really hard to check i'm pretty sure it is

00:43:03.100 correct this one i checked and it's here in a in this article this was shocking the guy had a huge

00:43:10.060 number of images and he had a record of abusing a young girl there is in the 1990s and he filmed the

00:43:15.900 assault so this guy got off far more lightly no no prison sentence from the same judge who said well

00:43:22.220 the only option here is definitely prison but this guy no just do a bit of a litter picking

00:43:27.100 or something 24 month community order this is 30 day rehabilitation activity requirement day

00:43:33.900 it just shows this is explicitly political there you go so you see once i've built the narrative you

00:43:40.140 start to now this was going to ask is how's this going down internationally now you might say if they

00:43:44.300 really knew the details they'd be like oh yeah i'm not sure about those tweets but people now are so sick

00:43:47.820 of it and particularly in america they're just going off they're just like no this isn't this

00:43:51.420 is ridiculous so jesse kelly says cut off all diplomatic ties with the uk and consider sanctions

00:43:55.660 we cannot be seen through business with naked tyrants like this um i mean

00:44:01.180 or i can see why they would think and say that yeah well yeah i mean and people say some people

00:44:05.980 said but have you looked at the details of this case but the thing is the details aren't great but

00:44:10.060 it's the same principle i mean this case isn't in isolation no exactly it's in the context of yeah

00:44:14.620 like i said this is not even the most sympathetic one just the one that came up but this is in the

00:44:17.900 context of 12 000 speech arrests per year so oran says the uk is an authoritarian as a place like

00:44:23.500 russia the idea we need to fight for freedom while being allied with such nations is a joke that's

00:44:27.420 not true uh we're three times more authoritarian look at the speech i thought he was going the other

00:44:32.300 way i was saying what's carl gonna say here oh no it's based okay okay because it's true it's

00:44:36.860 literally by the numbers yeah and actually i'm not even factoring in uh population multipliers either

00:44:43.020 just on the raw numbers alone per capita we're way more than three times more authoritarian right

00:44:48.140 yeah so anyway yeah carry on elon musk the uk has become a prison island this is all in response

00:44:53.900 only if you tweet the wrong thing elon yeah it's all in response to the same story even as bad as it

00:44:59.340 may be rapists get less time in prison says ali bestucky in the uk than people who politely suggest

00:45:04.860 an important terrorist was perhaps a misstep to be fair he wasn't saying this one wasn't that polite

00:45:09.260 no but in general she's got a point oh ferris if only the police could if only they could police

00:45:14.940 mosques and jihadi protests as well as they police random x accounts that's another take it's dangerous

00:45:19.980 though what did i say oh i just said as a joke how are they going to send rich men to war when they're

00:45:24.300 all in prison for tweets i thought it was a reasonable point that's a reasonable point uh i can't remember

00:45:28.700 i forgot how to put that at the end i like to end on a joke on a very serious uh topic they can

00:45:32.940 actually make like penal divisions but they take directly from prison and throw them into the front

00:45:38.380 line i think that's the only way it can work because all your all your white working class

00:45:41.420 men are being imprisoned for tweets because they tend to be the one that gets most mouthy without

00:45:45.100 you know on the on the tweeting and they all post even though it's only 33 followers and facebook

00:45:49.500 yeah but they'll all be in prison so they'll have to do what you say straight to

00:45:52.700 straight to the front lines that's all i got make your minds up at home i'm just a journalist

00:45:58.220 recording it objectively i mean fictasius laughs in ricky jones but like exactly ricky jones was at

00:46:06.940 the protest been like we have to slit all their throats yeah and that was immediate with the

00:46:10.940 crowd around it with far more of a and they all laughed and cheered yeah that to me was far close

00:46:15.980 to incitement because you're a group of people and of course the only caveat is a jury let him off

00:46:21.820 and would a jury let what was a jury of ricky jones's peers yeah yeah we never know what would

00:46:27.980 happen if lucy connelly would have got to a jury because she was pressured into not going to jury so

00:46:31.660 that's what we'd have to see always take the jury it would take even with this with this particular case

00:46:35.340 it would take some stones even for the jury to let him off because even you guys are like well

00:46:39.180 those are like bad tweets and even i was but i was used to it is my section but but um i still think

00:46:45.740 i would say no prison i would if i was the magistrate i wouldn't send him to prison no because what's

00:46:51.500 it going to do i mean he's just tweeted because he's angry about the situation he's phrased it very

00:46:56.140 badly he's just an angry bloke like so many in the country mouthing off what's he going to do to put him

00:47:01.340 in prison anyway it plays into that angle that where labor want to get rid of juries for many

00:47:08.940 many more cases so that you can get a captured judge captured magistrate to just bang you straight

00:47:13.980 up and the the judge is being expressly political there it's our communities he's talking about the

00:47:18.940 political relation between the communities and the need for harmony and stability it is expressly

00:47:23.420 political yeah there's no getting around it and that's why right okay political threat bam 18 month

00:47:28.700 prison sentence was probably the maximum he could give him and so it's just instantly right now

00:47:33.580 worst thing you could have done is politically interfere with the tranquility of the country

00:47:38.060 some people said what about on the other side like kneecap the thing they said murder

00:47:41.580 politicians yeah right you got away with it yeah um it's again the the idea that it's not a two-tier

00:47:47.580 justice system is kind of mad anyway let's let's move on let's have a talk about the australian federal

00:47:53.420 police because uh they're as you can see defending and protecting australia and australia's futures from

00:47:59.260 security threats what are their top priorities do we think hate crime anti-semitism airports and

00:48:05.500 aviation crime and then terrorism right okay it's an interesting selection of crimes that we get to see

00:48:11.900 as their their top priorities right for priority hate crime so just like the judges it's all the same

00:48:18.540 liberal international managerial regimes oh no we need to manage the tranquility between the communities

00:48:25.020 because otherwise this whole multicultural experience an experiment that we've set up

00:48:29.900 blows up in everyone's faces and that's not good so obviously hate crime first thing anti-semitism

00:48:34.780 and then airports and aviation crime i wonder if that's directly linked with terrorism uh okay that's

00:48:40.220 good these are all important crimes um your bike may have been stolen your car may have been broken into

00:48:46.380 you may have been mugged uh these are all crimes that you're more likely to suffer from but not

00:48:51.260 really such a problem anyway these these people were cross-examined last year right and this is just

00:49:01.500 remarkable absolutely remarkable because as daniel points out they were grilled about

00:49:07.900 inciting autistic muslim children to become snipers and plant bombs what right now that sounds pretty wild

00:49:15.180 doesn't it pretty wild given the age of the individual and you've noted he was 13 at the time and

00:49:21.020 then and then and then became 14 we put in place significant safeguards in terms of how that person was

00:49:27.580 engaged and again noting all operational strategies in relation to this matter were jointly agreed

00:49:33.980 through set processes and constructs to the jc2 with victoria police and aziel and ultimately as a result of

00:49:42.300 our action the dpp agreed to to to the lane of two serious charges and the court found that in fact

00:49:50.220 it was the afp that was radicalizing the child and i'll read you the conclusion from the magistrate

00:49:56.380 by its conduct in attempting to radicalize tc for the purposes of gaining evidence to prosecute tc for

00:50:02.540 the offenses with which he's been charged the afp has completely and inevitably undermined the therapeutic

00:50:08.940 process initiated by tc's parents and the countering violent extremism to seek to help to engage tc in

00:50:15.500 the therapeutic and rehabilitative process the radicalization was happening as a result of the

00:50:21.020 actions of your own officers so do you accept the magistrates finding listen we acknowledge the magistrate's

00:50:28.140 fine and we accept the finding but you're radicalizing the kids final question you're radicalizing

00:50:33.020 a 13 year old boy with autism if you has anyone been held to account have you been held to account

00:50:39.180 has the undercover operatives have been held to account has anyone been held to account for this

00:50:43.340 final question so just in relation to to that question it was not our position not our intent to

00:50:48.700 you did it if you can let me finish the question senator the person was on the the path

00:50:54.540 to radicalization long before we became involved long before victoria police came involved it was the

00:50:59.660 afp who recommended he become a sniper and a suicide bomber senator it was the afp who put that in

00:51:06.540 his mind a 13 year old boy with autism with an iq of 71 is anyone held to account for this this obscene

00:51:13.980 abuse obscene abuse of power and authority so senator that was not that was not our intent and not our

00:51:19.740 purpose what you did senator it wasn't our intent in terms of what you did so in terms of you following

00:51:25.580 off from that question there's a range of reviews that are happening in relation to this matter

00:51:30.540 more than shameful more than happy to come back before as a matter of transparency and confidence

00:51:36.780 he was quite good that senator ever he was it was like he didn't let it drop he's like no you did it

00:51:41.500 though but you i'll open it up to the panel then thoughts it's madness that's insane i mean i've heard

00:51:47.180 of similar things of course like the fbi have done all sorts of similar things yeah uh trying to

00:51:52.460 entrap someone but actually make them into the thing in the first place but yeah i mean the way

00:51:58.220 that guy's just trying to just fob it off and move on and whoever that woman was the chair i imagine

00:52:03.340 whoever that was just trying to move on just skate over it carry on move on i quite like that senator

00:52:08.300 there just you know not letting it go yeah then wait this happened though yeah the other guys i use

00:52:14.380 bureaucratic language like oh we look to that i mean it's like that's not really our intention to do this

00:52:19.340 yeah but it is literally what you did yeah it's what you did it's what you did so so there was so

00:52:24.780 let me get this straight because this is the first time really hearing about it yeah we'll go

00:52:27.580 there's i'm hearing this for the first time there was there was a 13 year old islamic kid with a

00:52:32.540 low iq and autism that was on their radar for whatever reason for being radicalized and the australian

00:52:38.380 police like why don't you become a sniper or a suicide bomber so that's they're the facts that's what

00:52:43.660 happened that's crazy would you like to go through this guardian article with me sure yes

00:52:49.420 you always there's always those people in the crowd like a january 6 type thing like let's storm

00:52:53.980 the place uh no mercy let's do violence and you're like i'm not sure about this guy yeah yeah yeah

00:52:59.660 this is the next level yes what about you thought about becoming a sniper yeah man this this is the

00:53:04.380 most i i didn't hear about this so this happened last year i didn't hear about this this is the first

00:53:08.060 i'd heard of it i i started looking at us like there is how is this real and it was that clip

00:53:12.780 that i saw i was just like that can't be real and so i went to the guardian and looked it up and they

00:53:17.900 were like oh yeah they made him a terrorist family of autistic boy cleared of terror charges is still

00:53:23.500 searching for answers a year on uh so this is a young boy called thomas carrick now that is not his

00:53:29.820 actual name uh they've given him a sort of anglo name uh the court has assigned this name uh

00:53:37.740 and because he's only 14 so obviously to keep his name out of the public eye um but he's he's a

00:53:43.340 muslim boy okay so uh his 14th birthday his parents could hardly believe their luck the police officers

00:53:49.580 and managers of his de-radicalization had given him gifts and a birthday cake the family said they've

00:53:53.820 been working closely with thomas for the past five months since his parents reported their concerns to

00:53:58.060 the police about his burgeoning fixation with islamic state their son who is autistic always struggled to

00:54:03.420 make friends but he felt close to these officers the feeling was mutual the cake from the

00:54:07.660 police was decorated with the message we love you thomas i said to his mother we are in such a

00:54:11.740 great country carrick's father said we were so happy on that day we actually cried we said there

00:54:16.540 can be no better place on earth that where than where we are they're helping us all as it happened

00:54:22.460 these efforts i'm just going to read this verbatim because you you would not believe what i'm about to

00:54:27.020 say right these efforts to help thomas were already doomed several weeks earlier he started

00:54:31.740 communicating online with the person he knew as khaled khaled was the overt covert persona of an

00:54:37.340 officer within the joint counter-terrorism task force which comprises the staff from the australian

00:54:41.980 federal police aco and victoria police the officer who was operating a second persona at the same

00:54:47.340 time had been tasked with building a rapport with thomas a court would find later that at the same time

00:54:52.780 as thomas was working with the actual police who he and his family had come to trust he was being

00:54:57.260 told online by these personas as in the police that killing an afp member like a member of the police

00:55:04.060 was a good plan and that he would make a good sniper or suicide bomber maybe it was a colleague

00:55:09.900 they really wanted to take out what what am i reading harry keeps stealing my lunch

00:55:17.180 sorry that's quite funny thomas thomas it's ridiculous it's it's ridiculous thomas told his

00:55:23.820 parents one of these online personas was his best friend sorry it's a fed literally telling you you need

00:55:30.620 to kill a police officer have you thought about becoming a sniper or a suicide bomber kill some

00:55:35.260 cops that is sad that he thought there is a best friend as all that that is yeah sad yeah i often

00:55:40.220 think me and eunuch we've talked about this before a few times that um actually you know a lot of

00:55:45.100 people argue that everything's fed everything's a style oh yeah everything's and i disagree most of

00:55:50.540 the time it isn't but the thing is if you're 14 years old sometimes it is sometimes it is that's so

00:55:56.380 cynical it's insane so that's that is mad so from this story on the one hand the uh afp are like

00:56:03.740 giving him cakes and saying oh you're such a good boy thomas and on the other hand they're literally

00:56:09.100 saying you should kill some people

00:56:13.500 it's just insane and the question that senator said is the undercover this cover over persona officer

00:56:18.620 yeah have they been held to account who is that person have they been fired well exactly do we get

00:56:23.100 to this no all right no no no one has as far as i'm aware anyway nothing i could find suggested that

00:56:28.460 any of these officers were fired or disciplined or anything and the guy in the inquiry was just like

00:56:34.540 it wasn't our intention to tell him to become a sniper and shoot a cop it's not the thing that

00:56:38.860 springs to mind here is the ruby ridge thing yeah where an atf guy or an fbi fbi guy asks

00:56:45.260 a normal person to make an illegal firearm he does and then they arrest him well then they kill

00:56:51.100 members of his family and arrest him it's like well if you hadn't have done that though he wouldn't

00:56:54.940 have you made all of this happen well that's exactly what's happening here 19 days after his

00:56:59.900 birthday in october 2021 thomas was arrested and charged with two terrorism offenses being a member

00:57:04.780 of a terrorist organization namely islamic excuse me islamic state and advanced advocating

00:57:09.020 terrorism it's like well someone's certainly advocating terrorism here but is that him uh

00:57:14.460 green senator david shoebridge this week described which is the guy we saw uh described the actor

00:57:18.940 celebrating thomas's birthday with a cake and gifts only weeks before arresting him as demonstrating an

00:57:23.660 unbelievable degree of institutional bastardry which is a great way of describing it of course the afp

00:57:30.460 have declined to comment and so this uh the this case has of course collapsed he was exonerated this

00:57:37.020 kid was exonerated for it but it's also destroyed their family because of course this is like why

00:57:41.660 have they done this to us uh is the question yeah uh but anyway let's go skip down uh after the uh

00:57:50.060 what's happened to the family um anyway so the conduct engaged in by the jctt which is the joint

00:57:57.500 counter-terrorism team and the afp falls so profoundly short of the minimum standards expected but of law

00:58:03.180 enforcement officers that to refuse this permanent stay application would condemn and encourage further

00:58:07.260 instances of such conduct says a magistrate called leslie fleming uh in the court's decision i'm

00:58:12.860 satisfied to allow this proceeding would to continue with not only unjustifiably and unfairly oppressive

00:58:18.940 to thomas carrick but also lead to an erosion of public confidence in the court's processes

00:58:23.420 the re-radicalization of thomas carrick was which was created by the jctt in the guise of ocio's

00:58:30.140 chats with tc were obtained in circumstances that fall far short of the minimum standard that

00:58:34.860 society expects of law enforcement officers yeah society actually doesn't expect law enforcement

00:58:39.660 officers to go under pseudonyms to infiltrate discords or whatever it was with autistic muslim

00:58:45.580 children and turn them into snipers weirdly enough that's actually outside of the bounds of society's

00:58:51.020 equity side are you on why are you doing that officer that what the jctt officer

00:58:56.780 working that persona what possible um like justification could they could they possibly

00:59:05.020 have for doing that i have no idea it doesn't make sense to me to a normal person who doesn't want

00:59:11.500 snipers and suicide bombers in the world well why would you i mean it's literally like fleming found

00:59:18.380 thomas had been groomed by the officers and his fixation fed by the undercover officer all the charges

00:59:23.820 they put on him it was them saying you please prove it to us the mother's right like the they

00:59:29.740 genuinely groomed their son whilst in one hand and then you know said oh no we're de-radicalizing him

00:59:37.580 in the other so are you like i don't know what the plan could possibly be you can't go target or

00:59:43.340 something that's what i was thinking they got a quota of arrests they need to make there's that thing as

00:59:47.740 well where you get too deep when you're undercover you know don donnie brasco where he doesn't want to

00:59:51.660 take his shoes off because it'll reveal he's got the the recording device in the japanese restaurants

00:59:56.220 and they just end up beating up the restaurant owners because he won't take the shoes off he

01:00:00.220 tries to make it about my dad was in a prisoner of war camp or something you've seen that yeah

01:00:05.100 with a load of criminals ends up beating up some innocent people because he's gone too far in as

01:00:09.260 well that i mean you think the undercover officers are sat there going right okay we are jihadis what

01:00:15.020 would a jihadi say i guess yeah they've just gone they've flipped extreme role playing the only two

01:00:21.660 honestly the only two explanations i can possibly imagine is one is that the jctt have got like a

01:00:28.380 quota of convictions or arrests they need to make and they don't care how dangerous it is

01:00:32.780 or that actual officer is a jihadi themselves and generally wanted this kid to become a sniper or

01:00:39.260 something or what other possible well would there be or and i don't want to get conspiratorial about

01:00:48.540 this there's a big loop that they're trying to close on state control so just uh i'll carry on

01:00:57.580 very quickly this cost half a million dollars this operation right so that's how much it costs to

01:01:03.980 radicalize a 13 year old somehow half a million dollars uh ridiculous obviously but the question

01:01:11.180 two text messages yeah exactly yeah how much discord close the loop so they say look there is a real

01:01:17.420 there's a real problem here never mind that we manufactured it but there's a real problem here

01:01:21.340 now we need more state authoritarianism that's literally what they're doing right okay right so

01:01:26.300 that doesn't make sense this to me now i obviously i've got no indication that the bondi beach shooters

01:01:32.540 uh were engaged in this kind of affair or anything like this i don't know uh anything that connects

01:01:38.940 them but it does make you wonder right because this uh is the next thing that they're doing hate

01:01:45.580 speech laws cracking down on dehumanizing rhetoric it's like was the bondi beach shooters about

01:01:50.460 dehumanizing rhetoric is that what caused this the home affairs minister tony burke says new hate speech

01:01:55.820 laws will be drafted to the limits of the constitution to capture completely dehumanizing rhetoric deployed

01:02:02.140 by so-called hate preachers is that what caused this like these guys like the dad was from haderabad

01:02:09.180 and they spent some time in the philippines of allegedly training although i don't know if that's

01:02:13.580 true um like i said i don't know what to think actually with a lot of this um but instead they're

01:02:19.340 like yeah well protesters chanting globalizing the intifada were horrific and we're going to make sure

01:02:24.300 this is outlawed under fast-track legislation in the wake of the bondi beach massacre so actually it does

01:02:30.140 look like there's a power grab by the state after an islamic terror attack and therefore it kind of

01:02:35.740 looks like the afp were like okay well if we want you know if the government want to have all of this

01:02:43.100 come in and they need a justification for it then we need some guy who's going to conduct a terror attack

01:02:49.500 so i'm not saying that that's what they were doing i don't know but they you can see why people might

01:02:54.540 think that that's what they're doing and so what am i supposed to take from what are the possible

01:03:01.500 rationale to radicalize a young man is there yeah i mean it does make sense i mean it's a bit well

01:03:09.340 it's very it's a false flag isn't it it's very conspiratorial it's very sort of 4d chess stuff but

01:03:14.220 nonetheless it does make sense and we do know that things like that have happened before and we know

01:03:18.700 for a fact so it's not outside the realms of possibility is it and moreover okay let's assume that's not

01:03:23.580 the case or why weren't the guys who were radicalizing the kid held to account like why

01:03:27.900 weren't they fired were they under orders exactly were they if they why why have they not been named

01:03:33.980 prosecuted and you know jailed for trying to incite a child to terrorism a teenager into terrorism

01:03:40.220 and the only answer that i could possibly imagine is well they must be under orders then

01:03:46.140 they must be doing as they're told so obviously we're not going to lock that guy up because we told

01:03:50.300 him to do what he did so and it was more than one of them as well actually so it's just one of those

01:03:56.700 things where it's just like okay so anyway yeah they're going to target hate preachers is there any

01:04:01.180 evidence that hate preachers contributed to this shooting no like what's what are we saying here

01:04:07.580 so that the language that some preachers use was completely dehumanizing uh we will be lowering the

01:04:11.900 threshold to the extent that constitutionally we are able to and it will be the strongest step forward

01:04:17.180 in making hate speech illegal in australia how do you know any of this to do with anything like

01:04:23.020 hate speech there isn't the bondi beach yeah the bondi beach shooting yeah okay yeah where's the

01:04:29.820 connection it's just seen that in this country as well people have called for immediately called for

01:04:34.460 more hate speech laws but how's that going to stop any of this it seems to be i don't know and

01:04:40.620 look at look at the sort of thing that's happening so two muslim men from hyderabad one born and raised

01:04:47.500 in america in australia but of hyderabad india origins shoot a bunch of jewish people on a beach

01:04:55.180 and now australians are being persecuted for the things they tweet so i don't know what are we talking

01:05:01.500 about here this just sorry what are you gonna say no i was gonna say when it happens to like our group

01:05:07.100 something like the grooming gangs no one came out and said well we need the hate speech

01:05:11.020 we actually want more because the powerless group wants more speech because they're the oppressed

01:05:15.500 ones whereas if you're in the interest if you have an interest in suppressing i find it very

01:05:19.180 suspicious way certain people came out and said we need more hate speech laws because of an attack on

01:05:24.220 bondi beach against jewish people and some you know people like rabbis and things you go what's the

01:05:29.260 connection there yeah and it's just you want to just suppress more people as a sort of wave and

01:05:33.420 gaining power of your group but that's not the way to do it or gaining i suppose protection for

01:05:37.340 their group is how they would see it but how why is hate speech laws the the solution it's not but

01:05:43.580 notice how going back to your segment what's the liberal order actually demanding here it's demanding

01:05:49.820 more right to police the boundaries and the distance between separate communities in society

01:05:56.140 and so the natural thing for them to something happened between these two communities right we need

01:06:00.460 more powers to police all of these communities no we're going to get right in there you're not allowed to

01:06:05.100 to say anything and we're going to go to the very the and we're being we're being in in inhibited by

01:06:10.300 the constitution right no so it's like yeah we're gonna do it to the very extremity that we can

01:06:15.180 implying that we would go way further if we could yeah we wouldn't stop here it's just unfortunately

01:06:20.460 we've got this stupid constitution that stops us from actually getting to where we want to be

01:06:24.460 but it's just the liberal order saying no we are going to impose this regime on you you are going

01:06:30.860 to live cheek by jowl with all of these communities you are going to have this be the new reality and

01:06:36.060 we are going to get as draconian as we need to in order to make this work so you know you don't

01:06:43.180 tell me to tell me about liberties and rights and stuff no no no no no you're losing a bunch of those

01:06:48.380 really quickly because otherwise we some some kid who's been radicalized on discord somehow

01:06:54.860 uh might go on a shooting spree and we definitely can't have that i mean there are loads of questions

01:06:58.700 about this that are really suspect like the guy got a gun license but he's a foreigner he's an

01:07:03.100 immigrant from hyderabad so why do you get a gun license why was he allowed to get six guns like why

01:07:07.580 there are so many open questions about this where did his his his son apparently uh lied to his he was a

01:07:15.260 a laborer lied to his um employer and said right okay i've broken my arm so i need to take like a

01:07:22.700 year off and then he went to the south of the philippines which to a particular city that is

01:07:28.780 near what apparently are terrorist training camps it's like okay that's that's weird isn't it like

01:07:34.220 what's going on here like why would an indian guy go to the philippines and like there are so many

01:07:39.340 strange questions again i don't have answers to but the only thing that ever happens is

01:07:45.420 fewer rights fewer liberties less freedom more government control more state interference

01:07:51.020 in the distance between the communities and it's all part of the same plan and agenda and this i

01:07:57.020 think is just going in the same direction there's nowhere else that they will go with any of these

01:08:01.740 things no matter what happens so just be aware i think the idea of actually uh reducing immigration or

01:08:09.900 even deporting loads of these people that are that's just not an option for them this is just

01:08:14.940 not gonna they certainly won't do that no having as many of these communities in your country as

01:08:20.540 possible is the thing that they want and that they are most committed to and all of the crackdowns are

01:08:25.980 about protecting those communities from wider public opinion even if that's nothing to do with the

01:08:31.580 actual crimes what a perverse thing well it's mad isn't it yeah absolutely mad must be mad literally

01:08:39.340 mad anyway samson do we have video comments today if not why not come on guys want those video comments

01:08:48.140 um cumbrian kulak says uh who killed charlie kirk candace and jimmy door are worth listening to these

01:08:53.740 are legit questions don't be scared bros yeah but it seems that they personally murdered charlie kirk

01:08:58.460 was some lefty furry they were talking about it on discord with their other friends who predicted

01:09:05.180 it in advance and like it's not even an unusual thing right charlie kirk was hated by them more

01:09:11.820 than most people because he went into their spaces and university campuses and called them they didn't

01:09:17.340 even call names he just debated them and so he had a high salience in insane lefty communities right

01:09:23.500 yeah i'm certainly not scared and i'm certainly open to i was open to yeah okay maybe other interests

01:09:28.140 killed him but it doesn't seem to be much evidence and when i see some of candace's evidence i had

01:09:32.380 nothing against candace but it's just a dream yeah it just seems bonkers and it's ongoing and never

01:09:37.820 ends so this is the only thing where people say don't be scared free to say it but i told you i

01:09:42.140 know someone who watches candace and believes it all but they sort of think they're living in a more edgy

01:09:46.620 or more more real world and i think it's a less real world and a more and an easy answer that

01:09:51.100 everything's just a conspiracy i find that sort of more of a way out we were talking about this before

01:09:55.980 the podcast how actually i i find conspiracy theories to be a bit of cope because like yeah

01:10:00.620 that means at least someone is responsible for this like well in a lot of cases i think these are just

01:10:05.900 events that happen that actually nobody is responsible for you know like who radicalized

01:10:10.620 the shooter of charlie kirk a bunch of furries on discord there's it's not a plot it's that there are

01:10:15.500 genuinely mad people in the world yeah i would say i'm not adverse to a good conspiracy theory as you

01:10:20.540 can see from the bottom of the beach and uh i've talked about the jfk thing a number of times yeah

01:10:26.300 yeah i'm not adverse to a complex convoluted elaborate conspiracy theory i don't rule them

01:10:33.340 out as a matter of course at all but in the charlie kirk murder one i want to see what happens with the

01:10:38.460 trial i want to follow the trial of that kid closely um and but on the preponderance of evidence so

01:10:45.180 far that i've seen it just seems more likely that it was him than some other than some much much more

01:10:51.260 elaborate what um it was the um it was egypt some of the logistics which friends was mocking with

01:10:57.980 canada some of the logistics about how it's they think it happened is ridiculous but yeah i'm totally

01:11:02.300 open to i think you've got to be completely open there were people like yeah people like toby i used

01:11:06.140 to work with who were like everything is cock up not conspiracy and then there are people like i suppose

01:11:09.660 delingpola everything's conspiracy i think you've got to be in the middle looking at each one on

01:11:13.180 merit i have one on each shoulder yeah and yeah for example the the trump shooting that is dodgy like

01:11:18.940 why have we learned nothing about this guy right hardly anything there's so many unanswered questions

01:11:23.020 very yeah uncurious right yeah no i don't need to know i want to know what really really happened i'm

01:11:28.620 not interested in trying to peddle a conspiracy theory for the sake of it because it's modish or cool or

01:11:33.420 something i just want to know what really really happened um so if it turns out again it was an

01:11:38.700 elaborate mossad operation or something okay i'm open to that yeah but it doesn't look to me it

01:11:45.740 doesn't look like it was but i don't know i don't know i wasn't there right i want to see what happens

01:11:51.180 in the trial i want to see what happens in that kid's trial what comes out first my problem is just

01:11:56.220 when you can predict what someone's going to say with 100 accuracy so there's some people i know will

01:12:00.380 always say it's all fake the trump shooting was fake the bondi beach was a false flag everything's fake

01:12:05.180 and i know 100 and they always do i'm like well that's not you're not your brain's not switched

01:12:09.740 on then because i know what you're going to say on every issue ahead of time it did come to me in a

01:12:13.740 dream though right let's go to the video comments i'd like to tell you about something i read a story

01:12:21.020 from rome the city you destroyed it's a classic there's a guy horatius held the bridge alone against

01:12:29.180 a whole army and what horatius said was how can a man die better than facing fearful odds

01:12:40.220 get inside get inside the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods

01:12:49.180 i haven't seen that that sounds great i think it's on terrestrial tv tonight is it i think so

01:12:55.420 all the odds yeah what are the odds of that okay i heard it wasn't good oblivion but is it actually

01:12:59.820 good then i've not seen it is the that clip made it look kind of cool have i seen it he's got you

01:13:04.780 claim to have seen it yeah i've seen it right okay evidently i didn't imbibe it uh yeah for some

01:13:11.740 reason i don't remember dave cullen recommends it it's probably all right okay um edge of tomorrow

01:13:16.460 was much better than i thought it was gonna be i saw it in the cinema but it was marketed really badly

01:13:20.220 i had to change the name to die live repeat no no no i think it was edge of tomorrow that i

01:13:24.140 actually watched because that's the one where he's in the robot suit and dies repeatedly yeah

01:13:26.940 yeah yeah that was the one i was replying to on that i haven't watched a drinker says it's good

01:13:30.940 as well is that am i seeing that right so yeah yeah i think so but yeah i i like saying my tweet

01:13:36.140 i miss sci-fi movies with outlandish premises i love that that's what's good about science fiction

01:13:41.260 it's like ridiculous premise now what happens um yeah now that actually looks really good um let's

01:13:47.180 watch the next one when i'm driving i've always stopped to move rocks and branches from the road

01:13:52.860 now i've added water to the list and started cleaning leaves and sediment from gullies a few

01:13:57.740 minutes of work makes it better for everyone who expect council to solve a problem to council

01:14:02.460 workers drive fast every day and ignore you can really just stop and do a bit it's all about the

01:14:07.980 greater good good man yeah yeah absolutely that's actual civic responsibility good man swindon has this

01:14:16.460 good for you all the time as well there are so many drains that are just perennially blocked and

01:14:20.940 it's like if it would literally be like you know you need the the pliers or whatever they call them

01:14:27.180 to hook the thing up and then get it out and clear it out it wouldn't take that long but the council

01:14:31.820 never do it and so there's it's always flooding and it's just like god damn it man yeah i've noticed

01:14:35.900 that where i live there's like massive i mean i'm from the lakes where you can't do anything about

01:14:39.980 flooding right yeah it rains it's going to be flooding there'll be sheep on the road that you have to drive

01:14:45.020 your car really slowly this is how it is it's the highest rainfall in england but in north london i'm

01:14:49.420 like why am i constantly avoiding massive like lakes it's like this wouldn't be i can see yeah the

01:14:54.940 drain spot there's leaves in it but no one cleans it and it's insufferable i've seen videos of guys

01:15:00.940 going around with whatever the plier things are pulling them up emptying them out and then the water

01:15:05.180 just draining away it's like yeah it's it's not and then no something like oh look at this global

01:15:09.820 warming climate change saying no it's not it's shit infrastructure yeah it's lazy and

01:15:14.940 incompetent council workers yeah cheap council workers won't pay someone to go out and do it

01:15:19.980 conspiracy is why do they want flooding well to advance the climate change it's ed miller bans

01:15:27.340 behind it all basically uh anyway omar says the best humiliation rituals are perpetuated by quote

01:15:32.620 unquote your side is there anything more demoralizing than watching your only representation openly diverge

01:15:37.900 from everything you hope for yeah and this thing ben shapiro has been getting a hell of a backlash for this

01:15:42.060 like losing tens of thousands of subscribers and all sorts of things it's like look man this is

01:15:48.140 a hill he's going to die on as well yeah 100 the hill he's going to die on so um yeah expect him to be

01:15:55.500 an implacable enemy forever basically if you don't want to be systematically disadvantaged as a straight white

01:16:00.700 man uh michael brooke says ben is a funny little chipmunk he's also quite poor at playing this game which is why

01:16:06.060 star is falling he's actually very low philosophical uh very low philosophical thoughts and just spits

01:16:12.060 platitudes it's not necessarily that it's just it's it's kind of lazy ideological attacks right because

01:16:17.500 every ideological statement has a kind of edge to it and that's why he's like no essentially what he's

01:16:22.380 saying is we should be de-platforming tucker carlson and notice that tucker carlson was speaking a much

01:16:26.780 more rich human language about forgiveness and care and kindness and decency and so you can see ben

01:16:33.100 is making a power play with the ideological language and tucker is kind of essentially sort

01:16:37.580 of diffusing it and just absorbing it and but he he seems more magnificent for it right yeah i think

01:16:43.500 the fundamental problem am i wrong no i agree with you i mean like i'm smirking and laughing because

01:16:48.300 it's so true he's a more likable guy as well but the thing is shapiro when he was attacking you know

01:16:53.660 college students for their very flimsy premises he was strong because he had a strong argument here i

01:16:59.180 think it's very simple he has no argument because if i said well here we are in england but we should

01:17:03.980 put norway first it's obviously silly so that's the problem he can't get around and i've got nothing

01:17:08.780 else i've never been like an israel i'm like okay do what you got to do it's not a big issue for me

01:17:12.700 but i'm like obviously that premise is not going to be america first because any people around the

01:17:17.580 world is crying out for anyone that puts their own people first even a small degree and anytime you

01:17:22.140 see someone do it great yama first everyone went well this is great 44 of the polls right very much so rare

01:17:27.900 so you can't this neocon thing of foreign policy maybe you can justify it and it's like we need to

01:17:32.860 defend our interests abroad he did a little bit of that in the speech you've got to make that case

01:17:35.900 much stronger because it's a much harder case to make and it doesn't it's not really doesn't really

01:17:39.820 make sense in this day and age never questioned the influence of norway either you're not allowed to

01:17:45.500 well it's the thing that ben shapiro's world view is very straightforward isn't it in the sense that

01:17:52.700 that anything that undermines israeli or jewish interests must be attacked it's just as simple

01:18:00.540 as anything that even begins to undermine it in any way shape or form so like platforming you know

01:18:06.300 what's interesting you know he he used to have a more nuanced take on this uh i remember a few years

01:18:12.620 ago he would say things like well israel's a big girl and can take care of themselves right and so

01:18:18.140 actually you know i'm not really bothered about israel and and that should have been a sort of

01:18:22.700 like okay well then you're choosing the america first side right so israel can come second and you're

01:18:28.380 confident israel can take care of itself but that's evidently not what's happening here so you know

01:18:35.260 like daryl cooper for example yeah um so it's just like sort of beginning nipping around the edges

01:18:42.300 if that even of a decades old narrative that even that must be attacked 100 head-on lock horns with

01:18:51.260 it and trying to annihilate it at source yeah and then it's like that's you had mark levin on stage

01:18:55.900 the other day saying no we do cancel people we do these people he said he was proud of counseling

01:19:00.860 pat buchanan yeah and cooper's only saying the same things as pat buchanan yeah exactly

01:19:06.300 it's been going a long time the the neoc the paleo con right has been crushed by the

01:19:10.300 the whatever the neocon right it's been going on for a very long time this with william buckley

01:19:15.260 but this is why the sort of ideological neocons encountering the sort of um humanistic tucker

01:19:21.420 types you know the the fact that tucker is able to absorb these attacks and come out stronger for

01:19:27.020 them i think is really really good i mean it does require somebody like uh tucker or a joe rogan

01:19:33.500 in the sense that they're unscathed uncancellable in terms of uh they've got their entirely their own

01:19:41.020 voice and platform that no one really other than maybe alphabet if alphabet decided to tell youtube

01:19:47.740 to cancel tuck even then you'd go on some other platform and millions of people would follow him

01:19:52.060 there so he's sort of uncancellable yeah he said in the speech i'm 56 years old my kids are growing i

01:19:57.580 i don't i'm not i'm not afraid of you i'm sorry he said the only thing is he goes you can shoot me

01:20:02.860 you can put me in prison but these ideas won't go away so he's like yeah hard to argue with i do

01:20:08.380 like tucker um michael says uh about erica kirk well can i say it gives me the creeps and i don't trust

01:20:14.780 her tucker is the only one who seems at least like he says what he means yeah the there are a lot of

01:20:20.860 not just here but there are a lot of people criticizing erica kirk um because she seems to

01:20:26.940 have had a plan like you know like oh we're going to do this we're going to do that and i don't want

01:20:31.740 to i don't want to be casting shade or anything because it must have been really difficult sure

01:20:36.380 of course i don't think she's handled it great thing i'll say about tucker again is that um no i

01:20:41.100 agree with that that i get the i forget the feeling that it whatever he says and i don't agree with

01:20:46.620 everything he says no but i don't agree with it even in the segment earlier on today i was

01:20:50.380 disagreeing with his ideas about individualism so i don't agree with absolutely everything

01:20:54.700 tucker says although i am a big fan and i'm bored with tucker but i definitely get the feeling that

01:20:59.260 whatever he is saying is genuine it's what he actually genuinely believes and you sort of can't

01:21:04.860 ask for much more than that that he's not trying to manipulate you he's not playing 4d chess he's not

01:21:09.260 he's not playing some weird crazy angle of double think or anything it's just he's saying what he

01:21:13.660 thinks there are things that make me suspiciously his defense of muslim taxi drivers right and stuff like

01:21:19.100 this okay yeah okay good point okay i mean i'm not saying it's been paid by qatar i don't know

01:21:24.700 anything but it's like it's like oh i'm going to flip from one middle east identity group to the

01:21:31.660 other middle east identity group and it's like well okay man to me that was a fairly basic point about

01:21:35.740 social conservatism and at least they believe in god versus these people that actively hate me and

01:21:40.540 despise me and want me cancelled which is a left the white leftist and i'm not saying you should just

01:21:45.260 hate muslim taxi drivers obviously but like the other thing about tucker that they get they take

01:21:49.420 him too seriously because he he changes his mind a lot and i've noticed that he's so radically in

01:21:53.660 the moment this is my theory he says things the next day he says the opposite sometimes the next

01:21:56.940 minute and he's speaking to one guy he goes i just don't think we should be putting people in jail

01:22:00.220 like at all like i know we have to like you don't believe in jail like he'll say crazy things

01:22:05.180 it's trump does it as well but he does it and he changes his mind because he's very in the moment and

01:22:08.300 kind of a childlike kind of a way of it's why he's such an incredible communicator because he's just in the

01:22:12.620 moment and 100 believes what he says then he says something different and he admits it even in that

01:22:16.540 speech he goes you know i was wrong yesterday so when you get really like head up like oh talk is

01:22:21.260 even i was like he might change his mind like tomorrow so and and he's not infallible as i say

01:22:26.380 once again i'm a fan of tucker but he has got things wrong profoundly wrong i remember just before

01:22:31.660 just before russia invaded ukraine like the day before two days before he said he was he was laughing

01:22:37.340 he was still on fox and he was laughing about it it's like oh as if as if that's gonna happen

01:22:41.900 that all that stuff it's like yeah that aged ridiculously badly in like 48 hours time so

01:22:47.900 it's not like he's infallible it's not like i agree with everything he says and he's never wrong but

01:22:51.660 i do love his campy laugh though yeah it's so funny he was wrong on the iraq which is sort of his

01:22:57.260 whole sort of original sin why he's been on this journey he says he was horribly wrong and he feels

01:23:00.780 terrible about you could do with a bit more of that humility on the other side if shapiro had a bit

01:23:04.940 more humility that would help him i just think that if if the zionists were actually willing to

01:23:10.620 understand why the nick fuentes types are in the position that they're in actually i don't think

01:23:16.860 they'd have to hate each other because all the zionists would have to say no you are right you

01:23:21.580 know america should be for americans first we are also americans even though we care about israel

01:23:28.620 why can't we work together and but they're not prepared to give any ground at all and it's just like

01:23:33.420 okay well then it's going to be a war you know and they would say well he mocks the holocaust

01:23:38.780 and so on but if you take if you're going to take all his edgy jokes seriously and just be constantly

01:23:42.380 triggered you can't win but if you just say all right all right whatever yeah yeah exactly scamps

01:23:48.220 yeah because i mean because they act like because they approach this on the ideological level

01:23:53.020 like okay yeah if if nick fuentes says something about hitler oh my god someone said something about

01:23:57.020 hitler it's like yeah but if you actually look at nick fuentes like look at him like little shrunken

01:24:03.100 over his desk with his mic it's like this is what you're scared of you know like and i'm not

01:24:09.020 trying to down talk down nick fuentes you know i think he's funny like everyone else but like he

01:24:13.820 he's not leading armies of stormtroopers yes why are they so afraid of their fear almost makes him

01:24:19.660 bigger and it's kind of embarrassing i said before like why is danny fixing like i'm the victim why are

01:24:23.740 you saying this to me it's like you're a 60 year old here yeah in the house of lords it's like

01:24:28.060 you could actually just say okay he's talking rubbish but i understand why young men feel this

01:24:32.060 or something like that and you you take on a much more magnanimous powerful position but you're like

01:24:36.460 how dare you attack me and of course i'm going to do it more yeah that way we've triggered this weird

01:24:40.060 old lord why is why is ben shapiro on stage ranting and raving about nick fuentes yeah he's a kid with a

01:24:47.100 a podcast man like the you know he's intruded in your hyper reality of like what these things are

01:24:54.060 but actually in reality like you said something to me a little while ago that i thought was pretty

01:24:59.820 interesting kind of profound even where you said you are what you react to yes when i was i was moaning

01:25:05.580 about some some nobodies on twitter and you said just ignore them just don't even react and i was like

01:25:11.020 of course that's right of course that's right you sort of are what you you are sort of what you

01:25:16.940 react to if you genuinely aren't affected or hurt or bothered or riled by it then then ignore it it's

01:25:24.620 fine so carl's like a feminist gamer then a feminist feminist well he's no he's like a because you are

01:25:32.060 what you react to so you're carl's like a feminist because that's what the main thing he first got

01:25:35.580 no no no it's not that you are the thing but when you're on that level when when they accuse

01:25:41.420 you of being patriarchal and you're like oh no but that's okay you you have to embrace the thing

01:25:47.260 that you are right it's a reflection of yes i am patriarchal thank you very much it's a reflection

01:25:52.460 of you what you get offended by is what you meant it's an accurate characterization right yeah as well

01:25:57.980 and so this is why they're so bothered about nick fuentes because he is characterizing them and

01:26:02.060 they feel that that characterization is accurate and so now ben shapiro like chuck schumer lord

01:26:07.980 finkelstein are like me me nick fuentes it's like he's a 27 year old kid from chicago with a podcast

01:26:14.620 like there's just i i can't imagine in what like if you were to look at the things outside of the

01:26:21.580 layer of speech they could find very interesting about nick fuentes in any other way right like when was

01:26:27.820 the last time nick fuentes left his house it was probably not daily right january 6th

01:26:33.660 what you think is genuinely a threat or a worry you know it being physically feeling physically

01:26:42.460 afraid and threatened by an ant yeah all right you you're not if you're genuinely not you just ignore

01:26:48.540 you don't even notice it lord finkelstein's like times radio quick we've got to come on and talk about

01:26:52.460 nick fuentes it just gives him way too much value why weak position exactly uh michael says from now

01:26:59.100 on we will not criticize ireland and devote endless segments to tell everyone why they are good people

01:27:04.380 in extremely tangential way and why they should be unquestioned we will institute laws to stop you

01:27:09.020 questioning them and constantly remind you of the troubles and why you should feel guilty and show

01:27:13.340 deference then we will give irishman a pride of place over carl and let him say the most vile things

01:27:18.220 about scots while smiling and laughing all the while shoring him with money and access

01:27:22.860 well i mean i'm i'm up for it uh if the what's the irish parliament called oh god what is it

01:27:29.500 called the uh storm it's at stormont i don't remember its name but it's at stormont let me

01:27:33.980 let me look at that i always remember the guy's called the t-shirt which is a it's called the

01:27:37.820 begins with an o but i can't pronounce it tell you search or you rectus and then yeah the

01:27:43.020 i don't know how to pronounce it sorry what is it or you rectus which sounds like some sort of

01:27:47.100 proctological exam um if they want to get on the phone if the south seat or whatever it is

01:27:53.340 has uh has got an offer i'm willing to hear it just saying uh you know i can be bought

01:27:58.220 how do you pronounce it he's shook apparently i'm just gonna call him premise it's mad at how alien

01:28:04.060 it is it's very near to us but the language is absolutely like i'm not gonna go there i can't

01:28:08.300 pronounce these things let's take money for the irish euro yeah we'll take the irish euro i guess we

01:28:13.900 will you know the irish nationalists are convinced that britain is the one puppeteering their politics

01:28:19.340 and it's like we're not puppeteering our own politics mate you know i don't know i don't know

01:28:22.860 i don't know whether you noticed yeah like we're not in control of anything anymore um

01:28:30.940 uh hector says uh bill's been stealing your lunch again aren't you pissed now i got a guy who's gonna

01:28:35.100 take care of him for me yeah those are the things like you need to go shoot a member of the afp

01:28:40.140 it's like but you're like you could see like a hollywood movie where the irony of the story is the

01:28:45.500 the kid goes out and shoots him right yeah the actual because yeah the guy radicalized him because

01:28:51.260 like that you're you're genuinely putting yourself in danger there by saying hey guys you should go

01:28:55.260 out and shoot in the afp and i now i'm going on my lunch bang you know it's like that would be a

01:29:00.940 hollywood story right he took out a life insurance policy on himself deliberately to do it yeah it

01:29:08.460 doesn't it's absurd you scratch the surface on that and it's up north fc zoomer says good work

01:29:15.180 on peter mccormick kyle you managed to engage purely on the essence of the conversation without

01:29:18.620 delving into specifics like when you brought up steven lawrence which is mostly false to be honest

01:29:22.460 with you the reason i dodged that i don't really know what the specifics on the steven lawrence case

01:29:26.700 are no bother looking into it i mean i'm aware of the event obviously but i just i couldn't tell you

01:29:32.620 the rights or wrongs of it or anything like that um aspergers and fries which is a great name

01:29:38.460 that's a really funny name uh says will breakfast be with beau be a live new show similar to the

01:29:45.420 podcast or pre-recorded live that's the idea isn't it wow that's the idea and then go up on youtube

01:29:51.180 afterwards as well yeah of course because most of the world will be asleep so it's beau before he's

01:29:56.540 fully woken up live and then we're speaking his mind okay no i will be awake for a while i'll be on my

01:30:02.220 third cuppa by that way i would have thought all right good luck well i'm glad to hear that

01:30:07.980 i just want to hear the mad stuff you say in the morning

01:30:11.180 bambam walk says when i'm gone they'll just find another monster they have to to justify their wages

01:30:15.740 i feel like that quote from dutch van lind perfectly summarizes the incident the feds need a villain to

01:30:21.100 blame it's the only way they'll justify the power grabs remember power is like heroin to these people

01:30:25.100 and they'll do anything to get more of it even if it includes killing children well i mean

01:30:28.940 again i don't know but it actually does explain the attempt to close the circle uh otherwise it's

01:30:36.780 pretty inexplicable especially as to why nobody's getting in trouble for radicalizing children it's

01:30:42.060 weird anyway we are back in half an hour with lads hour we have where we have the lotus eaters awards

01:30:47.500 of 2025. luca has been um creating a series of categories to which we are going to award people

01:30:54.700 throughout the year who has done the best in x y or z i don't know what the category is going to

01:30:59.100 be in advance uh so no but i can see there's shoehorned in sydney sweeney which is always good

01:31:04.060 yes uh anyway we'll we'll see you in half an hour

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - December 19, 2025

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1321

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