The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1324

00:00:00.080 Hi there folks, welcome to a brand new year on the podcast of the Lotus Eaters.

00:00:04.200 It's 2026, I'm going to try and remember that, even though I'll probably keep saying it's 2025,

00:00:09.000 but you know how these things go.

00:00:10.680 I'm joined by Dan and Peter McCormack from the Peter McCormack Show.

00:00:13.980 How are you?

00:00:14.640 I'm good, man. How are you? Good to see you again.

00:00:16.260 Yeah, you too. Our last podcast was pretty good, didn't it?

00:00:19.100 Pretty well. I got annihilated, but it didn't.

00:00:21.820 It wasn't that bad. I was watching the comments too. It wasn't that bad.

00:00:24.680 No, look, I've thought about it a lot recently, and we as a country have been slower to grow the independent media than, say, America,

00:00:35.000 but we're actually having the conversations which the public want and the independent, sorry, the mainstream media won't,

00:00:40.880 so I think it's important we just keep doing these things.

00:00:42.860 I agree.

00:00:43.740 Right, so today we're going to be talking about new frontiers for Somali pirates,

00:00:47.900 because this has been a kind of evolving story over the Christmas period, really,

00:00:51.980 and it's just getting worse and worse.

00:00:54.240 Top memes have been produced, most of which are too racist for me to share, but I will share what I can.

00:00:59.720 And that too. Then we're going to be talking about the Dominic Cummings Spectator podcast, which, did you watch it?

00:01:06.520 I did. Well, I listened to it.

00:01:07.960 Right, right. There were two parts. Did you watch both parts?

00:01:10.500 I was cooking at the time, so...

00:01:12.920 Actually, I don't think I did get the second bit, no.

00:01:14.940 That's the better bit.

00:01:15.680 Yeah, I was going to say, the second bit's where it gets really good,

00:01:18.180 and then we're going to have a discussion about who we should be deporting,

00:01:21.420 because apparently we're deporting somebody, some people,

00:01:23.360 so, you know...

00:01:24.600 You're not half Irish, are you?

00:01:26.060 Hmm?

00:01:26.460 You're not half Irish. 0.97

00:01:27.080 I am half Irish.

00:01:28.320 Am I off?

00:01:29.120 You're on the list.

00:01:31.640 Anyway, let's begin.

00:01:32.680 I think Irish counts.

00:01:34.140 All right, so let's take a look at what happens when a Nordic welfare state system 0.77

00:01:39.380 is intersected with Somali pirates.

00:01:42.560 Don't think it goes especially well.

00:01:44.320 Well, so this has kind of been a bit all kicked off in the last few days.

00:01:50.000 Nothing is working.

00:01:51.160 Here we go.

00:01:51.620 Let's see if I can make that work.

00:01:53.700 With Nick Shirley.

00:01:55.460 So he's a YouTuber.

00:01:57.200 He's been making YouTube since about 2014.

00:02:00.740 Right.

00:02:01.220 And he started off with...

00:02:03.140 Sorry, no, he was doing YouTube since he was 14.

00:02:05.800 Oh.

00:02:06.400 And he started off doing, you know, standard pranky type stuff

00:02:09.820 because, you know, what else is a 14-year-old going to do?

00:02:12.000 To be fair, that probably was around 2014, looking at it.

00:02:14.140 Yeah, it might have also been that.

00:02:15.180 Probably in his mid-20s, yeah.

00:02:15.580 Yeah, it might have also been that.

00:02:17.240 And he's been moving into taking a look at fraud,

00:02:19.900 and this video really blew up, like, 3 million views or something like that.

00:02:24.340 Or is it more than that?

00:02:27.020 Yeah, 3 million views.

00:02:28.060 But then it's been clipped and shared on a whole bunch of other things.

00:02:31.320 He's basically looking at the fraud in Somali daycare centres.

00:02:37.300 So, in fact, I'm going to use this clip

00:02:40.360 because it probably gives, for those of you who haven't seen the story yet,

00:02:43.520 a better intro rather than trying to find it on the main video.

00:02:48.220 How are you?

00:02:49.780 I would like to see if I can bring little Joey, my son little Joey here.

00:02:53.260 Is there a paperwork or can I check out the daycare?

00:02:57.000 No?

00:02:57.960 Why can't I check out the daycare?

00:03:01.320 Okay, but if I can't get paperwork or anything

00:03:05.640 to submit my son little Joey to come in here to daycare?

00:03:12.020 We'd really like to put Joey in this daycare.

00:03:13.920 We've heard great things.

00:03:17.780 Business card?

00:03:18.880 No, I would like your business card, actually.

00:03:22.920 You talk to your manager.

00:03:25.180 Okay, can I speak with somebody?

00:03:29.900 Where are the children at?

00:03:31.320 Are there children here today?

00:03:34.200 No.

00:03:34.740 No children?

00:03:35.460 Yes.

00:03:36.060 Why are there no children?

00:03:38.200 There are two, two at left school.

00:03:39.620 So, anyways, it's lots of bits like that.

00:03:44.500 We discover that Smarlians make up less than 2% of the Minnesotan population,

00:03:50.060 but over 70% of the childcare industry.

00:03:52.500 Is that real?

00:03:53.280 Yes.

00:03:54.400 Which is a degree of specialization.

00:03:58.940 This next part kind of did viral.

00:04:02.700 He is stood here outside the Quality Leering Center.

00:04:06.900 Here in Minnesota, massive fraud is taking place within the government and the Somali population. 1.00

00:04:15.540 Here, this building alone, Quality Learning Center, is a daycare.

00:04:19.520 Yet, they spelled learning wrong, and they said leering.

00:04:22.880 This daycare alone in 2025 has received $1.9 million from the government.

00:04:30.160 And the strange things about these childcare centers is there's no one here right now.

00:04:35.720 It's midday on a weekday.

00:04:37.160 And if you were to try to go inside, it's completely closed, and the windows are all blacked out.

00:04:43.680 No one's working.

00:04:44.660 Midday.

00:04:45.380 Children should be in here. 0.95

00:04:46.800 And this place is licensed for 99 children.

00:04:49.640 And this is the outside.

00:04:50.880 There's no windows, no nothing.

00:04:52.660 And like I said, they literally spelled the word wrong on their sign.

00:04:57.780 This is open and blatant fraud taking place here inside.

00:05:03.060 And it gets worse.

00:05:04.040 Yes, I mean, that particular center has donated $6 million to Democrats in the past two years.

00:05:11.420 So, yes.

00:05:12.300 Are you kidding?

00:05:12.740 No.

00:05:13.460 That center.

00:05:15.000 That's a nice slush they've got going on.

00:05:16.640 That is a nice little laundry circuit going on.

00:05:19.900 Have you followed this one, Pete?

00:05:20.940 Yes, I have.

00:05:22.880 It reminds me of something Michael Malice said to me.

00:05:25.740 When you see government as two rival gangs fighting for territory,

00:05:29.840 you start to see it exactly for what it is.

00:05:34.040 Look, the larger the surface area of the state,

00:05:37.620 the larger surface area there is for grifters and criminals to go and steal from it.

00:05:42.700 And when the incentives aren't for profit,

00:05:44.400 when the incentives are just to be able to steal,

00:05:46.420 it becomes very easy to steal.

00:05:48.660 And so we have the same problem here.

00:05:49.880 The surface area of the state is huge.

00:05:51.200 And we have a huge amount of grift.

00:05:52.620 I mean, I can give you examples of things I uncovered even in my own hometown of Bedford,

00:05:57.760 where the surface area of the local council is so large that people are able to monetize that.

00:06:04.020 One example is in property.

00:06:07.580 The local council will house anyone who is homeless.

00:06:11.380 There's no limit.

00:06:12.000 And so Bedford gained a reputation locally as you never go without a home in Bedford.

00:06:19.800 And so some of the people I know are landlords who have multiple properties.

00:06:22.760 They stopped buying properties to rent out to the local council to homeless people.

00:06:30.360 And now they lease properties and sublease it to the council and take the spread.

00:06:36.540 Ah.

00:06:37.240 Yeah.

00:06:37.820 Okay.

00:06:38.080 Because a lot of the council budget goes on bed and breakfasts.

00:06:42.780 Bed and breakfasts, hotels, and accommodation for homeless people.

00:06:46.260 Because if there is no limit to what you will provide,

00:06:49.640 and Bedford is known for that, then if you're on Luton or Cambridge,

00:06:52.520 it attracts people in.

00:06:54.360 So like I say, the larger the surface area of the state is to grift, people will grift it.

00:06:58.120 Whereas a private operator who has to operate with a profit,

00:07:02.180 you know that surface area can be attacked by suppliers.

00:07:05.080 And that's clever and scalable.

00:07:06.140 Because if you don't even buy the building, you just rent it, you don't even have to do repairs.

00:07:10.440 So you literally just sign one lease and then sign another agreement and get a 3% spread.

00:07:14.280 Yes.

00:07:14.740 Brilliant.

00:07:15.120 This is why people just, or people like myself now, just think of government as a criminal organisation.

00:07:20.940 Oh, absolutely.

00:07:21.440 Who steals from us through taxation and distributes it to their friends.

00:07:24.420 Yeah.

00:07:24.620 I mean, you got a leaflet a while back about how your Swindon taxpaying money was being spent.

00:07:28.620 Yeah.

00:07:29.040 But I imagine this is fairly evenly replicated across the country.

00:07:32.680 80% of the council tax in Swindon is redistributive.

00:07:37.000 Whatever that's supposed to mean.

00:07:38.480 And it goes on, you know, buying buses to ferry around disabled people and stuff like that.

00:07:44.200 And it's just like, great.

00:07:45.000 Okay.

00:07:45.340 Thanks.

00:07:46.020 Yeah.

00:07:46.340 Well, this is why councils up and down the country are now...

00:07:48.900 Bankrupt.

00:07:49.300 ...going bankrupt.

00:07:49.860 Yeah.

00:07:50.080 Section, is it Section 104 or Section 114?

00:07:52.600 I can't remember the name.

00:07:53.300 I can't remember the legislation, but basically, this is why Reform, the local councillors,

00:07:57.720 they got in, they were like, right, we're going to doze this.

00:07:59.600 This must be fraud and waste.

00:08:01.180 I mean, I'm sure there is a lot of fraud and waste, but a lot of it is just mandated by central government.

00:08:05.240 Yes.

00:08:05.400 That you have to pay for these things.

00:08:06.940 Endless legislation that comes down for them to force us to be able to pay for it locally.

00:08:12.540 But if you look at it, 94% of the national budget is spent by Whitehall.

00:08:18.600 I think in Switzerland, 40% is in the local cantons.

00:08:22.400 Really?

00:08:22.880 And so we don't, we have centralised power, decentralised payment.

00:08:28.280 Possibly one of the things that's worse with this one, perhaps, is that in the UK, there's

00:08:32.660 a lot of fraud and there's a lot of abuse and a lot of waste, but it's less clear that

00:08:36.660 there's a direct cycling effect between the money being spent and going back into labour.

00:08:40.440 Or at least if it is, it's a little bit more subtle.

00:08:43.680 This one, it's kind of blatant.

00:08:45.000 In places like Leicester or Bradford, there's going to be exactly this kind of environment.

00:08:52.920 I want to give you an example.

00:08:53.940 This is Tim Waltz, government of Minnesota.

00:08:58.200 I'll get rid of that.

00:08:59.240 So that was the old Minnesota flag.

00:09:03.720 And there we go.

00:09:04.700 Why did he remove that?

00:09:05.480 Because they changed it a couple of years back.

00:09:09.360 Looks a lot like the flag of Somali now.

00:09:11.520 Yes.

00:09:11.840 I don't know the Somali flag.

00:09:13.340 Well, it's got a star on it and it's blue.

00:09:15.120 Okay, interesting.

00:09:16.600 There we go.

00:09:19.640 It's almost two on the nose, isn't it?

00:09:21.840 How does that happen?

00:09:23.460 Because Somalis are something like 16% of Minnesota now and they're a very organised minority.

00:09:29.500 They, you know, support each other and are very active for their own cause.

00:09:34.580 When you've got one quality leering centre, which is giving you 2 million, would you not want more of that?

00:09:40.080 And if you're, you know, donating, what was it, $6 million or something per leering centre?

00:09:44.860 Yep.

00:09:45.720 Just get more leering centres.

00:09:47.340 Tim Waltz is like, yeah, I think I will change the state flag to the Somali flag. 0.64

00:09:50.920 The scale of this world, and it's not just daycare centres.

00:09:53.200 I mean, there's a whole bunch of different things as well.

00:09:54.780 I mean, it's like autism as well.

00:09:55.920 So, autism spending in Minnesota has gone up 130x.

00:10:00.800 I don't mean 130%, I mean 130 times the autism spending has gone up in Minnesota.

00:10:08.280 Isn't it something like $400 million now or something?

00:10:10.420 Yes.

00:10:10.940 Because I looked at it, yeah, it was $3 million and now it's like $400 million.

00:10:15.580 Yep.

00:10:16.080 Somalis are particularly focused on that niche as well.

00:10:20.260 I mean, just to give you an idea of the scale of this, this is Curiosity Rover.

00:10:25.920 It's basically on one of Pluto's ice mountains.

00:10:31.540 Oh, yeah.

00:10:33.200 It is three times cheaper to put a probe on Pluto than it is to have Somalians in Minnesota. 1.00

00:10:42.900 Something is wrong about that calculation.

00:10:45.300 And you might get the joke with this one, Pete.

00:10:55.300 Yes.

00:10:56.040 Just open a daycare centre.

00:10:57.860 It's the latest grift.

00:10:59.980 I'll give you one more chuckle before we return to the back and forth.

00:11:05.940 Pixar in theatres soon, hopefully.

00:11:08.860 We don't need to be pirates anymore.

00:11:12.200 I found a better way.

00:11:13.400 Government funded daycare.

00:11:14.600 Huh?

00:11:15.220 We must go to Minnesota.

00:11:16.880 To Minnesota!

00:11:19.000 In a world where some rules need to be bent.

00:11:21.980 Did we spell something wrong?

00:11:23.060 Who cares?

00:11:23.660 As long as they spell our names right on those million dollar checks.

00:11:26.440 Comes the story of triumph.

00:11:28.500 Remember when we had to illegally steal from innocent people like thugs?

00:11:31.440 But now we're stealing from innocent taxpayers.

00:11:34.000 Just like the government intended.

00:11:35.980 Look at me.

00:11:36.880 I'm the millionaire now.

00:11:38.860 You know, Tim Walsh, a couple of years ago, announced that they were creating a budget

00:11:43.040 for daycare centres of something like $350 million.

00:11:46.860 So he basically just opens up state coffers.

00:11:50.620 Essentially invites the Somali community.

00:11:52.460 Yeah, just sell it.

00:11:53.740 Do you think Tim Walsh was going to go to jail?

00:11:56.580 Well, no.

00:11:56.980 Of course not.

00:11:57.820 But it's the brazenness of it, right?

00:11:59.520 Because, like, okay, guys, I'm opening up a $350 million coffer for any of you to

00:12:04.580 come and make claims for daycare centres.

00:12:06.960 Is the average, like, you know, white, you know, German-descended Minnesotan being like,

00:12:11.920 right, that's a great grift.

00:12:12.940 I'm getting in on that.

00:12:14.160 No, obviously not.

00:12:15.120 They're just going to be like, okay, I'm getting on with my day.

00:12:16.760 I've got a job to go to.

00:12:18.260 You are literally just inviting communities that don't have the same sort of scruples

00:12:23.060 that the native community of Minnesota has to just come and just loot. 0.98

00:12:28.940 It's just an open invitation.

00:12:31.020 I mean, well, I mean, the bloody box isn't working.

00:12:35.300 It should be.

00:12:36.580 Here are some of the, and I'm not being a bit off here.

00:12:40.820 These are literally the people involved in the scam.

00:12:43.080 I mean, I remember hearing about, because, you know, we've had that stuff in the press

00:12:49.640 recently about getting rid of trial by jury.

00:12:53.340 So that actually came up about a good 15, 20 years ago.

00:12:56.840 And I remember when it came up and they were talking about getting rid of juries for complex

00:13:00.400 fraud cases because apparently it was so complicated that no jury could be expected to follow it

00:13:05.940 because these frauds were that sophisticated.

00:13:07.560 We've got to the stage now where you can literally just get given a form and fill it in and post

00:13:15.800 it.

00:13:16.360 And that's the level of complexity of fraud.

00:13:18.640 You remember that guy who defrauded like Google and Microsoft by just sending them bills?

00:13:22.780 Yeah.

00:13:24.040 170 million or something.

00:13:25.420 Yeah.

00:13:25.820 I thought he was a hero, but obviously don't do that.

00:13:31.120 I'm joking.

00:13:31.640 But the point is, it's literally on that sort of level, isn't it?

00:13:33.940 It's just, we'll just send the government a bill for some money and they'll just rob a

00:13:37.400 stamp it because they don't care.

00:13:38.920 Yeah.

00:13:39.160 And no one will ever come and check.

00:13:40.680 There'll be no due diligence.

00:13:42.080 It doesn't matter.

00:13:43.000 Well, the thing is, as you said with Tim Walsh, he put 350 aside for this.

00:13:47.160 He knows what's happening.

00:13:48.160 He put a signal out saying, go and get it.

00:13:50.280 Yeah.

00:13:50.480 It's the money.

00:13:51.340 Yeah.

00:13:51.640 Yeah.

00:13:52.160 This is the point.

00:13:53.060 The larger the surface area of the state, the more people will steal from it.

00:13:56.980 And people like Tim Walsh have no incentive to stop his voters.

00:14:01.520 Well, they have every incentive of doing more of it.

00:14:03.320 Of course.

00:14:03.880 Because a lot of that's coming back to the Democrat Party.

00:14:06.020 This is why the Labour Party want to have blasphemy laws only for one religion, because

00:14:10.380 that religion is voting them.

00:14:11.840 And I think this is the important point.

00:14:13.700 The thing is, it's not, though.

00:14:15.440 That's the thing.

00:14:15.920 They've even lost that constituency.

00:14:18.360 They have for now.

00:14:19.880 Well, yeah.

00:14:21.280 I think the Greens will just hoover them all up.

00:14:23.220 I mean, this kind of hits so many different issues.

00:14:27.720 You know, it's the value of groups of no-value immigrant immigration. 1.00

00:14:33.560 You know, the over-taxation spending by government, which then leads to the inflation, which I

00:14:40.200 know you've been talking about lately.

00:14:41.760 I mean, inflation is ultimately caused, but the state running too hot and inflation is

00:14:46.580 the cooling mechanism.

00:14:48.000 Currency debasement is the cooling mechanism that lets them get away with spending too

00:14:50.800 much.

00:14:52.520 You know, corrupt officials and judges.

00:14:54.020 I mean, maybe I'll come on to some of that as well.

00:14:55.680 I mean, the point about the immigrants themselves, I mean, just in case none of us want to say 0.96

00:15:01.340 it, I'll let this guy make the point.

00:15:06.000 A 23-year-old revealed massive fraud by Somali immigrants in Tim Walz's Minnesota.

00:15:13.500 The fraud was obvious, but practically no one called it out.

00:15:18.780 Why?

00:15:20.880 Come on.

00:15:22.700 Isn't it obvious? 0.99

00:15:23.600 It's because they're black immigrants and people are afraid of being called racist. 0.82

00:15:30.840 Well, I won't play the rest of it, but he basically goes on to say, look, they're just 0.86

00:15:34.300 cultures that are not compatible with the West.

00:15:36.360 They won't work.

00:15:38.360 Somalians have got a very strange culture, even for like African nations. 1.00

00:15:41.960 Yeah.

00:15:42.480 It's very, it's just deeply clannish. 1.00

00:15:44.600 And they were kind of cool as pirates.

00:15:47.840 That was the coolest thing about them.

00:15:49.340 You know, I didn't even think they were cool as pirates.

00:15:51.280 I think pirates are kind of cool.

00:15:52.360 Pirates are cool.

00:15:52.880 My football team's called the Pirates, so I kind of like pirates.

00:15:54.960 I didn't think the Somalis were cool as pirates.

00:15:56.680 They didn't have drip, man.

00:15:58.000 No.

00:15:58.260 If you look at like 18th century pirates, they had drip.

00:16:00.460 Well, and they didn't have a flag with a skull and crossbones.

00:16:02.680 But look, again, the surface area of the state is so big, you're going to allow people 0.86

00:16:06.560 to grift it.

00:16:07.380 And our friends on the left don't really understand this point about immigration, is that

00:16:12.760 if you continue to allow other people to come in and steal from us, that we are going to

00:16:17.620 take a more kind of pessimistic view on immigration.

00:16:20.900 And that's where it's coming from.

00:16:22.020 So you have to have a realistic debate about what immigration is, where it benefits and

00:16:25.920 where it doesn't.

00:16:26.460 But if you allow a large number of people to come in and grift the hard-working people

00:16:31.280 who get up at five, six in the morning and go to work, you're going to have conflict.

00:16:34.360 Yeah, I mean, just re-emphasizing the point of, I mean, it's this kind of thing that a

00:16:42.500 lot of people just don't want to say, that there are basically, there is, below this certain

00:16:46.780 line, there is kind of very little point in taking people from those countries, in terms

00:16:51.640 of the contribution they make.

00:16:53.860 I'm genuinely surprised the Italians are a positive contribution. 1.00

00:16:56.300 Yeah.

00:16:56.600 So, I mean, even without the fraud, Somalians cost money. 1.00

00:16:59.880 Yeah.

00:17:00.060 But, you know, for whatever reason, we're just not allowed to, allowed to notice this.

00:17:05.460 Well, the other axis on this...

00:17:06.580 Just a quick thing, though.

00:17:07.400 Go back, go back to the previous one, because, like, this is basically countries with established

00:17:11.640 benefit cultures and not without, right?

00:17:15.180 Like, countries where you can't just go to the government and take loads of money from

00:17:18.880 them.

00:17:19.940 Well, as soon as that option becomes available, they just start taking loads of money from

00:17:23.940 the government.

00:17:24.420 Why wouldn't they?

00:17:24.960 Like, why would I refuse this apparently unlimited spigot of money?

00:17:30.060 Being poured into my pockets.

00:17:31.700 It would be crazy if I'm from the Horn of Africa or Morocco or Turkey or whatever.

00:17:35.580 Why wouldn't I do this? 0.99

00:17:36.440 It's like, well, I mean, there are reasons, but there's a reason that your country sucks 0.96

00:17:40.100 and that the country you've come to doesn't.

00:17:42.280 And the reasons are that you don't just take infinite money from the government.

00:17:46.540 You actually think of yourself as being the owner and possessor of the country.

00:17:51.280 And so there's a reason that you work and pay your taxes, right?

00:17:54.500 And that's the thing that makes our countries better than their countries, frankly.

00:17:58.100 There's another thing you know intrinsically as an entrepreneur.

00:18:00.500 I mean, how long have you worked for yourself, Carl?

00:18:03.280 About 13 years, something like that.

00:18:05.300 And I'm assuming at some point you've made the mistake of having a weak link within your

00:18:09.420 company you've held on for far too long and put up with.

00:18:11.740 And eventually you get rid of that person.

00:18:13.140 You realize, oh, my company is a lot stronger.

00:18:14.760 Um, I mean, I don't want to.

00:18:17.300 Yeah.

00:18:17.980 I mean, I've been there.

00:18:19.140 Given that they might be watching.

00:18:19.940 I've been there.

00:18:20.520 But you do.

00:18:21.520 You make excuses for people.

00:18:22.920 It's hard.

00:18:23.360 It's difficult.

00:18:24.000 You don't want to get rid of them.

00:18:24.920 You don't want to sack them.

00:18:25.620 And they're dragging the whole company down.

00:18:27.340 Or there could be multiple people.

00:18:28.680 And then once you finally deal with that, you understand intrinsically in the future that

00:18:32.320 you want a strong company full of strong people so you can build a strong balance sheet

00:18:36.620 and profit.

00:18:37.440 I mean, the country is the same.

00:18:38.480 I don't know many people who aren't pro-immigration for people who come here positively to provide

00:18:46.480 a service or contribute something that we haven't got here to grow the country.

00:18:50.240 It's a very small number of people that actually you want to do that.

00:18:53.740 But once you just allow your country to be, to allow immigration at such a level that it 0.98

00:18:59.880 drags the country down, drags the services down, you're actually just eating the country

00:19:03.340 alive.

00:19:03.920 And I think that's just a much more practical way to look at it.

00:19:05.960 Well, and also there's just no friction.

00:19:07.140 So, I mean, I had this conversation with actually somebody who was on the left and had their

00:19:11.420 own business.

00:19:12.740 And they were doing the standard accusing me of racism, all that kind of stuff.

00:19:16.740 And I was saying, well, would you hire a foreign person to work in your business?

00:19:19.840 And I'm like, yeah, of course I would.

00:19:21.040 And I said, well, would you interview them first?

00:19:24.480 I was like, well, yeah, of course I would.

00:19:25.520 And I said, well, why can't we just do that then?

00:19:27.580 Well, why can't we just at least have a five-minute interview with people before we let them

00:19:30.820 into the country?

00:19:31.240 We don't even do that.

00:19:32.780 Just complete lack of friction the whole way through.

00:19:34.780 The other thing I was going to talk about is, you know, a lot of this fraud has been

00:19:38.580 exposed for over 10 years at this point.

00:19:42.120 And cases has been brought.

00:19:43.580 And so in one particular case, some Somali fraudster was basically convicted unanimously 0.90

00:19:51.560 by the jury of defrauding the state for $7 million.

00:19:54.720 And the judge just voided the case.

00:19:57.720 You've got to understand for these, like, awfuls.

00:20:00.480 Why voided it? 0.92

00:20:01.620 The white female liberals. 0.99

00:20:02.700 A lot of this is ideological.

00:20:04.320 And they view this as a kind of reparations.

00:20:06.540 Well, I don't know.

00:20:07.300 Is it that or is it transferable motherhood behavior?

00:20:11.280 Instead of having kids, I'm going to have immigrant children. 1.00

00:20:13.960 Yeah, I know.

00:20:14.200 But that's the sort of motive for it.

00:20:16.200 But the result is that they essentially view themselves as, yeah, like, paying a form of

00:20:21.900 reparations, taking care of a community they think can't take care of itself.

00:20:25.540 And so it's about...

00:20:26.700 It's transference of the mother instinct.

00:20:29.000 Maybe.

00:20:30.300 Yeah, quite possibly.

00:20:33.200 So the Minnesotan attorney general is on the case.

00:20:37.400 And she is basically going off to the far right.

00:20:41.100 Who exposed this?

00:20:42.940 Well, I mean, you know, they know their constituents.

00:20:45.780 They've got to defend their men.

00:20:48.800 I mean, an example of how obvious this is.

00:20:53.980 So, I mean, this guy's going to walk past a dilapidated office.

00:20:58.520 And apparently it's got 60 healthcare businesses inside it.

00:21:02.300 It's a deserted office building.

00:21:03.560 So, you know, they are not even trying that hard on any of this.

00:21:10.100 There would be a use for these Somalians, actually. 1.00

00:21:12.820 If you think of white hat hackers.

00:21:15.040 Do you know white hat hackers?

00:21:16.120 Yeah.

00:21:16.500 Yeah.

00:21:16.820 Yeah.

00:21:17.100 They help companies find gaps in their cybersecurity, maybe.

00:21:22.120 Or you could essentially have, I don't know...

00:21:24.960 Are you suggesting put them in boats off the coast of Cuba and let them go...

00:21:27.600 No, I'm suggesting...

00:21:30.820 Employ them in the government to say,

00:21:32.720 Here are where all your exploits are.

00:21:34.360 Where billions are going to be siphoned off by our fellow countrymen.

00:21:37.840 It's a great job for them to do.

00:21:39.500 They could be well paid and perform a service.

00:21:41.780 Yeah, but you'd have to pay them more than the fraud they're able to conduct.

00:21:44.820 I don't know.

00:21:46.300 I mean...

00:21:46.900 Otherwise, what's the incentive?

00:21:48.760 But also, you're assuming...

00:21:49.940 Deportation?

00:21:50.540 Yeah, but also you're assuming that they would do this.

00:21:53.720 Because that would be viewed as sort of treachery to their own community, right?

00:21:56.800 Because you think, oh, I would report so-and-so if I thought he was stealing money.

00:22:00.320 Because that's the right thing to do.

00:22:01.880 But they would think of you as some sort of race traitor.

00:22:04.240 They would say, well, hang on a second.

00:22:05.660 You know, how could you do this to the Somali community?

00:22:07.900 You know, you would be an outcast.

00:22:09.740 Money talks.

00:22:11.540 They're making lots of money.

00:22:14.020 They're already making money.

00:22:14.720 There was a point earlier about the complexity of fraud.

00:22:16.580 Because I think if I was going to do a fraud, I'd end up making it so bloody complicated.

00:22:20.660 And I'd be like, oh, it has to do this.

00:22:21.860 And then I'll cover it by this.

00:22:22.780 And I'll do these intercompany transfers.

00:22:24.380 And then I'll set up a shell company and stuff like that.

00:22:26.800 What you're kind of pointing out is they exposed it by just walking into a government office

00:22:30.900 and saying, can I have some money, please?

00:22:33.180 Well, do you have a daycare centre?

00:22:34.760 All right, then.

00:22:35.960 You know, it wouldn't have occurred to any of us just to basically just ask. 1.00

00:22:40.340 I would have set the daycare centre up like an idiot. 0.99

00:22:43.200 Like, I would have gone and actually created a daycare centre. 1.00

00:22:45.000 There would be kids there.

00:22:45.960 Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:22:46.900 I'd be like, you know, canvassing mums and be like, look at this bouncy castle we've got

00:22:50.580 or whatever.

00:22:50.900 I don't know anything about a daycare centre.

00:22:52.200 Making no money because you're feeding them.

00:22:53.800 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:22:54.980 I'd be like, my margins are razor thin, man.

00:22:58.100 You know the mistake you made, having kids in your daycare centre.

00:23:01.540 Well, they used to.

00:23:02.180 I mean, funnily enough, they used to do that.

00:23:04.100 So this is from about three years ago.

00:23:05.340 You used to have kids in daycare centres.

00:23:06.840 Yeah.

00:23:07.360 So this is from an earlier investigation.

00:23:08.960 Order for the scheme to work, daycare centres.

00:23:12.060 But basically what happens is you get a family of Somalians turn up at this daycare centre.

00:23:16.100 They go in, they register, and then they all get back in the car again.

00:23:20.040 They drive to the next one, walk in, sign in, and then go to the next one.

00:23:24.060 They just do that all day and they get a kickback.

00:23:26.140 But eventually they realised, why are we bothering with all these kids?

00:23:29.660 Yeah, what's the point?

00:23:30.820 Yeah.

00:23:31.260 Just fill in the fake names.

00:23:32.500 Yeah, we're just filling the fake names.

00:23:33.900 No one's going to come and check.

00:23:35.780 That was a really inefficient business.

00:23:37.860 Yeah.

00:23:38.040 Yeah.

00:23:38.960 But there's the thing about, you know, cutting the dead weight, you know, streamline the process.

00:23:44.840 Here, now they've been caught out, you know, they're having to sort of cover their tracks.

00:23:50.120 And in the script that she was given, she was asked to say fraud is bad.

00:23:55.600 And it triggered an emotional response.

00:23:58.040 And then funnily enough, the...

00:24:25.980 Sorry, can we just linger on that for a second?

00:24:28.040 Like, that's the first time she's ever read those ones.

00:24:30.300 I heard the idea that fraud is bad.

00:24:32.620 She's like, oh my God.

00:24:32.900 And she blue screened.

00:24:34.240 Yeah.

00:24:34.720 She celebrated.

00:24:35.840 But that's what I've been doing this whole time.

00:24:38.480 Yeah.

00:24:39.320 Okay.

00:24:39.580 And then that liberal woman behind her comes out and speaks next. 1.00

00:24:43.800 And she does the Freudian slip at one point of basically saying, of course there's fraud.

00:24:48.140 And then she, like, basically has to...

00:24:50.440 Yeah.

00:24:50.780 Yeah.

00:24:51.440 And they...

00:24:52.080 I saw this the other day and it looks like the office.

00:24:56.420 You know, it looks like something out of the office where it's like, fraud is bad.

00:24:59.800 Oh.

00:25:00.660 You know, and the sort of camera zooms in on them or something and then zooms in on someone

00:25:03.940 else's face.

00:25:05.140 I mean, this is kind of the American version of the grooming gang scandal.

00:25:10.280 Except that it was the taxpayers getting...

00:25:12.680 I won't complete that sentence.

00:25:13.900 Yeah. 0.96

00:25:14.080 It's a lot less impactful then, but it's still ridiculous.

00:25:17.080 But I mean, this only happened because the whole system did not want to say anything about

00:25:23.280 it and politicians were getting kickbacks from it.

00:25:27.160 This is a lens for the entirety of the state, whether it's America or the UK or Europe, in

00:25:34.040 that it's completely and utterly failing at everything it should be doing.

00:25:37.980 The thing is, though, I'm uncomfortable with just saying, oh, it's just the state.

00:25:40.760 Yeah, it is the state.

00:25:41.680 Don't get me wrong.

00:25:42.220 It's the state, the media as well.

00:25:43.880 But it's the community that's taking advantage too.

00:25:46.520 Of course.

00:25:47.440 Yeah, but we say, of course, but like, sorry, you know, if this had been, you know, a community

00:25:55.480 of Norwegians and Tim Walsh was like, right, we're going to bring out 350 million for daycares,

00:26:00.700 very little of it would have been taken.

00:26:02.720 But it's downstream of the state, all of this.

00:26:05.100 Sure.

00:26:05.520 I mean, the reason these people are in America is because the state has brought them in. 0.96

00:26:08.480 Yes.

00:26:08.920 But, you know, it's important to note the kind of substantive moral difference between communities.

00:26:14.800 I mean, to be fair, the reason I think that Somalia doesn't have a big state is because

00:26:20.300 every time they try, it collapses before it gets to the scale that it does.

00:26:25.080 I mean, the idea of a Somalian state is kind of a fiction anyway.

00:26:29.100 Yeah.

00:26:29.280 Right.

00:26:29.880 Like, can you, what kind of real power do you think the Somali state has?

00:26:33.280 Probably less effective than the Labour government at this point.

00:26:36.500 It's probably harder for it to be grifted.

00:26:39.260 Oh, yeah.

00:26:39.700 It's got hardly any money.

00:26:40.900 I imagine the tax revenues are atrocious, you know.

00:26:43.380 But the point is, like, there's very little genuine interaction.

00:26:47.020 It was like, when we go to Afghanistan or Iraq, it's like, okay, how does this country work?

00:26:51.100 Well, it works with clannish strongmen who will give you something in return for something else.

00:26:56.720 It's like, right, but we've set up the Iraqi government or the Afghan government.

00:27:00.720 It's like, okay, but you don't understand what you're talking about.

00:27:03.040 Like, there isn't a national state here.

00:27:04.680 There isn't a nation in the sense that we understand the nation.

00:27:07.780 So, like, it's the same as Somalia.

00:27:09.700 It's like, what are we doing?

00:27:10.660 You know, we're applying our lens inappropriately to them, which is just...

00:27:15.100 And bear in mind, Elon reckoned that 20% of the federal budget was going in fraud,

00:27:21.180 which means that two-thirds of federal taxes is just being used to pay fraud.

00:27:27.980 I mean, that's the insane part.

00:27:29.820 That's the bit where people should be revolting. 0.64

00:27:32.000 Yes. 0.63

00:27:32.880 Because, like, why the hell would you work?

00:27:34.680 I mean, I'll just cut to the end link here.

00:27:37.980 But, I mean, this woman makes a good point.

00:27:39.800 She's got a medical practice. 1.00

00:27:41.980 Why the hell am I bothering?

00:27:43.960 I've got... 0.97

00:27:44.480 Like the Somalis. 1.00

00:27:45.140 I've got eight...

00:27:45.800 No, she's got eight grandkids. 0.98

00:27:47.420 She would actually make more by just setting up a daycare centre for her own grandchildren 0.91

00:27:52.460 than running a medical practice.

00:27:55.420 Do you know what percentage of Somalia's economy is based on remittances?

00:27:59.100 A third?

00:28:00.380 It's literally a third.

00:28:01.580 Yeah.

00:28:02.000 A third of the entire economy of Somalia is Somalis sending money back from wherever they live now. 0.87

00:28:07.180 And what percentage of that is from Minnesota?

00:28:09.000 I don't know, actually.

00:28:10.260 A third of that?

00:28:11.280 Yeah, well, it's going to be a large percentage, though, isn't it?

00:28:13.860 That's the thing.

00:28:14.480 But, I mean, this is the question that I increasingly find difficult for young people.

00:28:19.760 I mean, your son's about the right age.

00:28:21.640 I mean, I would say to him, why do you bother working?

00:28:25.240 Well, he works because otherwise he'll get slapped from me.

00:28:27.260 Well, yeah, okay.

00:28:27.860 No, no, no, but that is the problem with young people at the moment.

00:28:30.860 That's why there is so much nihilism around.

00:28:34.020 What jobs do exist?

00:28:36.140 The old career ladder is slowly dying because a lot of the entry positions don't exist anymore.

00:28:41.520 They've been passed over to AI.

00:28:43.640 Large consultancies now are reducing the amount of entry-level jobs that are coming for grads.

00:28:48.960 But even if they want to take the honest route, then what is the gap between when you first earn a salary?

00:28:55.920 Maybe it's minimum wage. 0.90

00:28:57.460 How much do you have to get to to be able to afford a deposit for a house, to buy a house?

00:29:01.300 I mean, you get into the range of 40,000, 50,000 pounds a year.

00:29:04.060 I mean, that's above the average in the country.

00:29:05.780 And so that's why there's a lot of, I think, nihilism and degeneracy around crypto has been so successful because people thought they could buy an ape and make some money.

00:29:14.220 And if they lost, so what?

00:29:15.440 They're still with their parents.

00:29:16.360 So there's much bigger, wider issues relating to this and the role of government and what we're doing for our children.

00:29:22.840 I wrote an article yesterday, and that's what I did on my New Year's Day.

00:29:26.380 I think actually what we're doing as parents is quite cowardly because we are – I say collectively we.

00:29:33.300 I mean, I know the people around this table aren't, but collectively we are saying to our kids, for what we want as adults in the short term, you're going to have to pay for it in the long time by not being able to afford a house, not being able to have children, and probably not being able to retire because we want stuff now.

00:29:49.000 But as parents, you know intrinsically you must make sacrifices for your children.

00:29:53.020 We all do.

00:29:54.000 Whereas a generation, multiple generations, we now need to be making sacrifices for our children to restore some sanity to the way we run our country.

00:30:01.980 Yeah, 100%.

00:30:02.920 Well, we'll come on to that very shortly, actually.

00:30:05.940 Luke says, I think the funniest thing is the guy who said all their paperwork got stolen.

00:30:09.200 Yeah, did you see that?

00:30:10.100 Yes.

00:30:10.540 The guy standing outside, like, again, like, weird, dysgenic Somalian guy saying, ah, yes, Rob was broken and stole the paperwork on the kids. 0.92

00:30:16.940 So why would they do that?

00:30:18.220 To what end?

00:30:19.000 He's very lucky.

00:30:20.200 Just honestly, do I look like I was born yesterday?

00:30:23.980 Luke asked Dan, what's your take on the Iranian protests and what's happening in Nepal?

00:30:29.700 Oh, was it?

00:30:30.880 Is something new happening in Nepal?

00:30:32.080 I haven't seen the new thing in Nepal.

00:30:33.440 I have no idea.

00:30:34.440 I think he's asking you.

00:30:34.840 So I'm going to have to check on that.

00:30:35.420 On Iran, I mean, we were talking about this beforehand, weren't we?

00:30:37.940 I mean, hopefully it goes well.

00:30:40.280 But my fear is they just get brutal because, basically, they don't want to end up with a spike up there, so they're going to do what it takes.

00:30:46.340 And if it means mowing down civilians, I think they're probably going to do it. 1.00

00:30:48.960 I think they've already done it.

00:30:49.740 I saw a thing about live ammo being used.

00:30:51.520 Live ammo has been used.

00:30:52.380 Yeah.

00:30:52.780 But anyway, that's for another time.

00:30:54.420 So let's move on.

00:30:56.420 I really enjoyed this podcast, a series of podcasts, a dual podcast that Dominic Cummings did with The Spectator.

00:31:02.940 I really enjoy Dominic Cummings, just the fact that he says things that are outside of the consensus of the establishment after having been within it.

00:31:15.100 And so he just tells it like it is to their face.

00:31:18.300 And because you've got people like Michael Gove, who are such creatures of the system, they have trouble believing what they're hearing.

00:31:24.620 And this was a great example of that.

00:31:27.240 So we'll...

00:31:28.100 Gove is not strong on the chin game, is he?

00:31:30.240 No.

00:31:30.640 No, he's not.

00:31:32.140 But that's something...

00:31:33.740 Well, the great thing about Cummings is he is explaining what we all feel.

00:31:38.840 Yeah.

00:31:39.080 We all feel that everything is broken.

00:31:41.160 He explains why.

00:31:42.420 No.

00:31:42.720 He doesn't sugarcoat it at all.

00:31:44.260 And so we've got a few clips I'm going to play in.

00:31:46.620 He begins the podcast by saying, look, the problem with Britain is essentially...

00:31:51.620 And I saw a chap on Twitter say this, and I can't remember the guy's name, so I'm really sorry I can't credit you.

00:31:56.520 We're in a sort of interregnum at the moment between paradigms.

00:32:01.540 The current paradigm has clearly come to its end.

00:32:04.380 Cummings says, look, everything's knackered.

00:32:06.140 And everything's knackered all at once.

00:32:07.140 This is kind of forth-turning stuff.

00:32:08.520 Kind of, yeah.

00:32:09.180 It's like the NHS, the political system, both political parties, the universities, the public trust in the system.

00:32:15.600 Just everything is just knackered.

00:32:16.680 And more of the same is only going to compound the problem.

00:32:21.380 It is the system itself that is the problem.

00:32:23.500 And he says, look, the people who are most realistic about this, that I've spoken to, as an insider, are the people who are essentially running what he calls the deep state.

00:32:32.560 So the people, you know, intimately connected to the mechanisms of the functioning of the state, if anyone can even figure out how that's done.

00:32:39.200 And total outsiders, like us, who are just like, wow, everything seems screwed.

00:32:43.220 So, you know, what can be done?

00:32:46.940 And he begins with, we'll begin with this one where he talks about the problem of the system itself.

00:32:52.700 We can play this, please, Samson.

00:32:54.340 Almost the heart of darkness in the entire system is the legal section of the Cabinet Office.

00:33:01.040 One of the things that Jeremy Haywood did, effectively from his point of view, was to grab control of large parts of the legal system by bringing it into the Cabinet Office,

00:33:09.800 calling it a very complicated process.

00:33:13.560 But essentially, he got the Cabinet Secretary's control of this legal entity inside the Cabinet Office,

00:33:19.800 which then spreads its tentacles throughout the whole system and, to a large extent,

00:33:24.520 displaced the old power of the Attorney General and the Attorney General's Office.

00:33:28.460 The Cabinet Office legal team is massively remain.

00:33:31.880 Remember, they leaked against their own government during the Brexit negotiations 2019-2020,

00:33:38.580 which the Cabinet Secretary apologised for and said was unprecedented in British history,

00:33:42.440 to have our own government lawyers leaking against our own government negotiating team.

00:33:46.040 Massively pro-Romain, massively pro-ECHR.

00:33:49.880 And for them, ECHR is a religious principle.

00:33:53.900 It's a commandment that supersedes everything else.

00:33:57.440 So from that point of view, defending that is critical.

00:33:59.240 So, very interesting.

00:34:02.320 Who did he name there?

00:34:03.080 He named a guy called Jeremy Haywood.

00:34:05.400 Now, most people have probably never heard of this guy.

00:34:08.160 I hadn't heard of this guy before this podcast.

00:34:11.120 But as you can see from his Wikipedia page, he was made of Barron,

00:34:15.020 and he was the, what was it, the Principal Private Secretary to Prime Ministers Tony Blair and Gordon Brown

00:34:21.900 from 1999 to 2003 and 2008 to 2010,

00:34:24.980 and then became the Cabinet Secretary to David Cameron and Theresa May from 2012 to 2018.

00:34:31.020 Then he moved to the head of the Home Civil Service in 2014 to 2018.

00:34:35.600 And so you can see this is...

00:34:37.020 That is an odd career path, right?

00:34:39.300 When the Americans don't have anything like this,

00:34:40.720 you don't have somebody who's a senior staffer for Biden

00:34:42.940 who then runs a department for Trump.

00:34:46.840 Right.

00:34:47.400 And he died in 2018 of lung cancer.

00:34:50.520 And so it's very interesting how this guy was so melded into the system

00:34:57.160 that the Conservatives probably didn't even think to remove him.

00:35:01.760 And he is the one who centralises under the Blair administration

00:35:04.920 this kind of legal power within the system.

00:35:08.580 And so what this does is it creates a massive issue with

00:35:12.320 the layers of legality that are currently stacked on top of the British state.

00:35:17.660 So we've got, like, and at one point Gove's like,

00:35:21.540 oh, you know, isn't the British system, like,

00:35:24.960 aren't we being taken advantage of because of our fair play nature?

00:35:27.640 He's like, yeah, maybe up until the 1970s that was how it worked.

00:35:30.700 But then we have the European courts, the Human Rights Acts,

00:35:33.620 and various other things that are being stacked on top of it.

00:35:35.980 And now it's created this kind of reverberation chamber

00:35:39.580 where it controls and distorts everything within the old system.

00:35:44.360 The old system is trying to live as it used to,

00:35:47.480 but it's completely hemmed in by all of this stuff.

00:35:50.920 In fact, I'll let him lay it out if I can play this one.

00:35:53.160 It's politically now incendiary because the thing which is driving it legally

00:35:57.020 is the Human Rights Act.

00:35:59.400 So the only way I went into all this in great detail in 2020,

00:36:02.840 the only way you can stop a lot of these things, similar to the boats,

00:36:06.140 is by facing legal reality and saying,

00:36:09.600 you either have to amend slash repeal the Human Rights Act

00:36:13.280 or you have to put up with it.

00:36:16.080 But you have to make a choice.

00:36:18.180 SUNAC wouldn't make a choice on the boats.

00:36:20.080 The lawfare that's going on now is a similar problem.

00:36:24.760 They look quite surprised that this is literally this black and white.

00:36:28.940 But everyone knows that it is this black and white

00:36:31.300 because it is the Human Rights Act and the European Court of Human Rights

00:36:34.380 that they are appealing to to keep these people in our country.

00:36:37.440 So it's got to be this.

00:36:38.980 This is the midwit meme, isn't it?

00:36:41.540 It very much is.

00:36:42.260 You've got basically everybody in that.

00:36:43.480 You've got Steve Laws on the outside at one end

00:36:45.280 and you've got Dominic Cummings at the other end

00:36:47.580 and then you've got Michael Gove and everybody else in the middle

00:36:49.660 just going, oh, it's complicated.

00:36:50.840 No, it's not.

00:36:51.500 Exactly.

00:36:52.040 It's literally not complicated.

00:36:54.980 And so I'm building up to something here.

00:36:57.360 So let me carry on a sec.

00:36:58.860 So basically what you're saying is, look,

00:37:00.340 this is enmeshing the entire system into torpidity, right?

00:37:04.840 It's become so constricted and captured by this series of legal regulations

00:37:10.940 and the structure of the legal system in the Cabinet Office

00:37:14.600 that nothing in the system can move.

00:37:16.820 But in parallel to the EU and the ECHR slash Human Rights Act,

00:37:21.080 you also have this huge development of how judicial review works in the country.

00:37:26.560 And these processes are completely entangled.

00:37:28.960 So you can't separate out the effects of the Human Rights Act from judicial review.

00:37:34.420 So then, as you know, Michael, when you're sitting inside government,

00:37:37.980 not 1%, not one in a thousand of the things that the Human Rights Act actually touches

00:37:43.000 ever becomes public.

00:37:44.840 But every day as a minister or every day in Number 10,

00:37:48.960 you're told constantly, oh, you can't do that because of the Human Rights Act.

00:37:52.520 You can't do that because legal advice says blah.

00:37:54.420 You can't do blah, blah, blah.

00:37:55.240 These things are never made public.

00:37:56.800 It's a completely internal process.

00:37:59.540 So I think what we've got is we've got an old British White Hall and MP system 0.65

00:38:04.320 kind of evolved over centuries, right?

00:38:07.420 Yeah.

00:38:08.040 Then you've got now sitting on top of that the EU system,

00:38:13.280 the Human Rights Act system and the judicial review system

00:38:16.740 combined with the lawyers inside White Hall

00:38:23.380 means that the old British system doesn't work anymore.

00:38:26.800 And he's completely correct about this, I think.

00:38:30.600 And what this does is it completely constrains anything that any of the politicians can do.

00:38:37.020 So this is, as we were, we were constantly talking about how the Blairite quangocracy

00:38:41.040 and the legislative reforms and constitutional reforms that Blair put in

00:38:44.900 have served to extract power away from the government.

00:38:48.600 So ministers are actually no longer accountable and are not, in fact, in charge of their departments

00:38:53.360 or not, in fact, able to do anything.

00:38:55.780 And what Cummings has explained to us is how this is working.

00:38:59.220 Any thoughts so far?

00:39:00.220 I've got one more clip that I want to go through before we have a proper discussion.

00:39:02.740 Let it finish because there were bits that, because I was listening to it on the way,

00:39:05.540 there's bits I want to bring up.

00:39:06.640 Yeah, OK.

00:39:06.980 This is a slightly longer clip, but I think it's totally worth it, how he describes how the system works.

00:39:13.320 People don't realise, but the madness of the Human Rights Act now means that a secret process

00:39:18.720 has evolved inside the government that looks at various terrorist threats.

00:39:22.560 And a very weird, perverse outcome of this is that the lawyers have decided that it's OK

00:39:28.560 to send some Special Forces guy over to the middle of nowhere, watch someone come out of a building 0.98

00:39:33.880 and drone strike them and kill them. 1.00

00:39:36.300 That's lawful. 1.00

00:39:37.760 But it's unlawful to have the same team of people grab him, put him in a helicopter,

00:39:42.820 bring him back to Britain for questioning, right?

00:39:45.380 All these human rights lawyers all over Twitter go, 1.00

00:39:47.380 Cummings is insane, clearly completely bullshit, this madness is impossible. 0.99

00:39:52.060 Then, of course, over the next couple of years, more and more people come out saying, 1.00

00:39:56.780 yep, this is exactly what happens.

00:39:59.920 So all these people, right, KC's, judges who are part of the system,

00:40:04.460 also have no real understanding of the insane ways in which the bureaucracies morph behind the scenes in secret

00:40:12.300 to cope with this public thing of the Human Rights Act.

00:40:18.760 The system kind of reverberates internally because of legal advice

00:40:22.320 and forces people internally to do all of these things, which are then kept completely secret.

00:40:27.120 Now, the contrast, of course, is look at what's happened in Europe this year

00:40:29.980 on very interesting aspects of how the commissioners suddenly behaved.

00:40:34.860 The commission, for the first time, really, started to get panicky on the whole thing about the boats in the Mediterranean

00:40:40.420 and the effects on public opinion in the South.

00:40:43.740 So very quietly behind the scenes, the commissioners just suddenly said to the Greek government

00:40:47.860 and to the Spanish government,

00:40:49.700 if you need to do A, B, C, just do it and forget the Human Rights Act and forget the ECHR.

00:40:55.800 We'll turn a blind eye. We don't give a shit. 0.99

00:40:57.500 Just solve the problem. 0.99

00:40:58.300 Now, that also is a very important dynamic, right, which shows the problem that Britain has.

00:41:04.520 In Europe, it's a completely normal thing just to go, 0.98

00:41:07.260 oh, yeah, well, we signed up to all this shit, but actually now it causes this insane problem, 0.99

00:41:11.800 so just deal with the insane problem and we don't care what the lawyers say. 0.99

00:41:14.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:14.680 Everything is normal.

00:41:16.020 But in Britain, that's impossible.

00:41:18.560 The Cabinet Secretary marches in and says, I'm sorry, Prime Minister,

00:41:20.780 but there'll be a judicial review and you'll be told that you'll be in contempt of court

00:41:24.140 and potentially thrown in jail.

00:41:25.340 So, therefore, you must do the following thing.

00:41:27.380 And as you know, Michael, PM after PM has had exactly that conversation.

00:41:34.800 It's completely dysfunctional.

00:41:36.960 It's mad.

00:41:37.920 It's not working for anybody.

00:41:39.880 And this is the scary part of it.

00:41:41.840 It's because we are, I mean, so obviously not working.

00:41:45.040 The rise of reform and green is a reflection of the fact that it's not working for anybody.

00:41:49.180 People are just looking for some kind of hope.

00:41:51.040 If you're a lefty, it's Zach Polanski.

00:41:52.600 And if you're a conservative, it's reform.

00:41:54.760 But Neymar Parvini, a mutual friend of ours?

00:41:58.520 Yeah.

00:41:58.740 Yeah.

00:41:59.500 I mean, he wrote the book The Populist Delusion.

00:42:01.540 This cannot be fixed internally.

00:42:04.080 It can only be fixed from the outside.

00:42:06.180 The entirety of government needs...

00:42:08.460 I mean, it's a bit like, you know, when a company...

00:42:10.020 I'm not even sure I agree with that.

00:42:11.160 I mean, if you had a parliament of absolute mad lads who were like, right,

00:42:16.080 we're just going to legislate this out of existence.

00:42:17.820 It is possible for parliament to just reform and reconstitute the entire state.

00:42:22.260 It would just be an incredible undertaking.

00:42:24.900 But I think you need to start with the mandate to win the election to do it.

00:42:28.700 Oh, yeah.

00:42:29.220 And nobody's talking about that from any party that has a potential to win.

00:42:34.460 And this is why it doesn't matter whether we get reform.

00:42:37.760 If we get reform, things will slow, maybe.

00:42:40.140 Or if we get...

00:42:40.640 Or the system won't work for them either.

00:42:41.760 No, it won't work for them either.

00:42:42.700 Or we'll get some kind of left-wing coalition, which probably kind of likes it in some way, 0.99

00:42:46.980 because they get to do all their crazy shit. 0.99

00:42:48.160 But this needs reforming from the outside. 0.99

00:42:50.560 This needs reforming from us, the public.

00:42:52.840 So that was the point you didn't have there.

00:42:54.660 But remember the bit where Cummings was talking about the public needs a step forward.

00:42:58.280 We need the good people.

00:42:59.400 Because right now, if you're smart or clever, you will be working at a company like a SpaceX or a Tesla.

00:43:05.520 You're going to go into the private sector and get rewarded for it.

00:43:07.860 Oh, you've got that bit.

00:43:08.520 Yeah, it's fine.

00:43:09.220 You carry on.

00:43:09.620 Yeah, but that's the most important part.

00:43:11.240 So what do we get in terms of politics? 1.00

00:43:13.080 We get student politicians, morons, and halfwits. 1.00

00:43:15.360 And we are delegating responsibility to our lives to people we do not respect or like, 1.00

00:43:22.840 who have no experience or no skills, that they wouldn't survive in the private sector.

00:43:26.780 The thing is, every so often you do get a quality person go in, and they get frustrated.

00:43:30.620 They leave, and they tell all their friends don't go anywhere near government.

00:43:32.920 Of course.

00:43:33.180 I wouldn't go anywhere near government.

00:43:34.980 You'd be completely impotent as a smart or a wise person.

00:43:40.280 So I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

00:43:41.220 But the most important part is, if you're going to play it, is it that bit where he

00:43:45.420 talks about it needs to come from the public, step forward, take one for the team, and fix

00:43:48.500 this?

00:43:48.800 No, he's just talking about the flight of elite talent.

00:43:51.860 Yeah, elite talent.

00:43:52.580 If you're elite talent...

00:43:53.260 Why wouldn't you go into the state?

00:43:54.100 Yeah, the only way you would go into the state is if you're somebody like a Rupert Lowe, and

00:43:57.420 you've already made your money, and like, this is... 1.00

00:43:59.340 I can't put up with this shit anymore. 0.99

00:44:00.920 I'm going to do something about it. 1.00

00:44:04.460 I'm going to be a bulldozer.

00:44:05.460 But there aren't enough of those people, and too many of those people...

00:44:08.840 I mean, you must do.

00:44:09.980 I've talked to some people.

00:44:11.660 Reputationally, they don't want to step forward.

00:44:13.100 They don't want to be attacked.

00:44:14.220 I mean, look at the attacks that...

00:44:15.800 It's a gross thing, Paul.

00:44:16.700 Yeah.

00:44:17.440 So the only way to build this, my only personal belief, is the public have to say, we do not

00:44:23.700 tolerate this anymore.

00:44:25.180 Because the funny thing is, it's not working for the left or the right.

00:44:29.180 If you go and read one of Grace Blakely's articles, she's talking about very similar

00:44:34.080 problems that the Conservatives are talking about, that the institutions have utterly

00:44:38.140 failed.

00:44:39.600 Everything is trickling upwards towards the rich.

00:44:42.300 The state is a complete grift.

00:44:44.000 The right and the left are actually talking about the same symptoms.

00:44:46.420 The problem is, is the left wants to solve it with Marxism, which we know will utterly

00:44:50.100 fail.

00:44:51.260 And the right wants to hopefully solve it with free markets, as such.

00:44:55.100 But I think this whole thing has to be fixed by the public.

00:44:58.140 The public's saying no more.

00:44:59.380 We do not tolerate this.

00:45:01.260 The problem is, though, we're in a constitutional crisis that is so profoundly complex that,

00:45:07.300 I mean, I don't think Michael Gove understands it, right?

00:45:09.920 When you're watching through...

00:45:11.660 He's very nervous.

00:45:12.540 Yeah, he's very nervous, because obviously he's an ardent defender of Kemi Badenok and

00:45:16.080 the Conservative Party, right?

00:45:17.740 And when Dominic is explaining to him the problems, you can see that Michael is just kind of,

00:45:24.000 in some parts, glazing over, where he's just like, right, okay, you know, this is a really

00:45:28.900 profoundly difficult thing to understand, and actually thinking, right, who is it I have

00:45:34.640 to identify as?

00:45:36.120 Essentially, people who have to lose their jobs, lose their entire positions, like entire

00:45:39.500 departments need to just be liquidated.

00:45:41.600 You know, like, this is a massive undertaking that speaks to the genuine constitution of

00:45:47.220 the British state.

00:45:48.160 It's not sufficient for us to say, well, we're just going to get on outside of it, and hopefully

00:45:51.980 they'll leave us alone.

00:45:52.680 It's like, no, they're going to continue to tax us to death to pay for an insane system

00:45:56.340 that, as Cummings was saying, was all done in secret, right?

00:45:59.140 All of these things are done in secret, because some lawyer, some Casey or, you know, whatever

00:46:03.440 Cabinet Office lawyer, goes to the Prime Minister and says, you'll end up in jail if you do

00:46:07.780 this, and instead of going, okay, what law are they going to put me in jail under?

00:46:12.820 Because I'm just going to repeal that, right?

00:46:14.720 Instead of doing that, they go, well, good point, I'm just going to carry on and get my

00:46:18.380 pension afterwards, I suppose.

00:46:19.820 We're in an unusual moment in time, which is an opportunity in that this party is so hated

00:46:26.100 by everyone.

00:46:26.660 They're hated by opposition, but they're hated by the people who voted for them.

00:46:30.760 Usually, there's large support for the ideological support for the party.

00:46:36.020 I mean, under Labour, under Blair, sorry, the Labour voters still supported him.

00:46:39.720 But you have universal dislike.

00:46:42.600 I think the really important thing to communicate to the public is this cannot, this, it cannot

00:46:46.800 be fixed by voting in just new people.

00:46:49.740 It's going to be very, very hard unless they come with a mandate from the public to fix

00:46:54.020 this.

00:46:54.220 And I think that's the only way, unless, there are people who are like, oh, democracy

00:46:59.000 can't work.

00:46:59.420 It's like, well, yeah, sure.

00:47:01.280 But like, unless you're raising an army and are going to literally go and storm parliament

00:47:04.620 with bayonets or something, then your only option is electing people who have a particular

00:47:10.420 mandate for this kind of change.

00:47:12.640 And essentially have a revolutionary fervor in them to just liquidate the entire system.

00:47:18.000 But it can happen.

00:47:18.860 I mean, six, seven years ago, immigration was a fringe topic.

00:47:24.480 You were a racist for talking about immigration.

00:47:27.260 Now it's policy, even though they're not executing it, it is policy for the Labour Party.

00:47:32.060 We all kind of, the public have demanded immigration be something we deal with.

00:47:36.700 And it will probably be the central issue over the next election.

00:47:40.660 But we can solve immigration.

00:47:43.380 We're still going to be broke and poor.

00:47:45.360 And so we have to solve this.

00:47:46.740 And I think it's an important job to get this to the electorate, this message that the electorate

00:47:51.320 demands something better.

00:47:52.620 On a very slight tangent, your talk about revolutionary energy going into government.

00:47:57.760 Curtis Yarvin just put out an article basically saying that Trump had his moment.

00:48:02.000 He had his Rubicon energy for the first two years.

00:48:04.540 And he didn't do it.

00:48:05.940 And so it's now impossible to change anything under Trump.

00:48:08.600 Yeah.

00:48:08.860 Trump should have been liquidating instruments of the American state in the same way that

00:48:12.460 I'd like to do with Britain. 0.84

00:48:13.420 And this is the thing with Farage.

00:48:14.900 He's going to have a once in a lifetime opportunity when he comes in.

00:48:18.040 If he grabs that Rubicon energy, he can do it.

00:48:20.880 I have absolutely no indication or belief that he will.

00:48:23.820 Well, we'll get to Cummings' view on Farage in a second.

00:48:26.380 So obviously, he makes his predictions as to what's going to happen in the new year and

00:48:32.280 with the continual sort of degradation of the system.

00:48:36.380 The lesson of the last 10 years is the system will keep doubling down.

00:48:40.240 So the system will definitely keep doubling down again in 2026.

00:48:44.680 They'll rally around.

00:48:46.820 We will all, the system will rally behind, continue infinite immigration. 1.00

00:48:53.120 There's no way out.

00:48:53.900 After all, the Treasury says economically there's no alternative.

00:48:57.460 And it's racist to have an alternative.

00:48:59.560 So, carry on on infinite immigration. 0.97

00:49:01.880 So you don't think there are signs that that is changing in number 10 now with Labour's

00:49:05.920 and Shibana Mahmood and all of that?

00:49:07.320 Oh, it's all complete nonsense.

00:49:08.320 They won't do anything on the boats because they can't do anything on the boats.

00:49:10.700 The boat is hardwired because of the Human Rights Act and Judicial Review and how Whitehall

00:49:14.240 operates.

00:49:15.160 It doesn't matter.

00:49:15.840 Shibana says whatever.

00:49:17.520 Rishi said all of this stuff in 2023.

00:49:19.400 I predicted in January 23 when he made all these statements. 0.99

00:49:23.280 I said repeatedly, it's all total bullshit. 0.99

00:49:25.960 He will not stop the boats. 1.00

00:49:27.180 The boats will carry on.

00:49:28.680 The legislation they're passing will have zero effect.

00:49:30.940 And I very confidently predict the same thing now.

00:49:35.180 What about the legal migration?

00:49:36.320 They cannot control illegal migration.

00:49:39.640 That will carry on.

00:49:40.380 They can't control Whitehall.

00:49:43.560 So all of Whitehall's pathologies will continue.

00:49:46.160 They can't get a different economic model.

00:49:48.320 So they'll just have to keep putting up taxes.

00:49:50.180 And stagnation will continue.

00:49:51.920 They can't control the police and law and order.

00:49:54.600 So crime will continue to get worse.

00:49:56.300 They can't control the NHS.

00:49:57.580 So the NHS will get worse.

00:50:00.100 And obviously the MOD fiasco can only get worse and worse.

00:50:03.860 They'll lie more and more, cheat all the budgets, blah, blah, blah.

00:50:06.920 All the major things which is currently disintegrating will continue to get worse.

00:50:11.100 The benefits thing as well.

00:50:13.180 So you notice that she was saying, well, what about the legal immigration?

00:50:17.580 Because Labour had tried to get that down.

00:50:19.880 But conversely, as he talks about in this clip, we won't watch this clip, but he talks

00:50:24.080 about the focus groups that he's working in.

00:50:25.820 And that was depressing.

00:50:27.300 Everyone was leaving.

00:50:28.280 Everyone's leaving.

00:50:28.880 Well, they want to get their kids out. 0.99

00:50:30.020 And last year, 250,000 British people left.

00:50:33.460 Every year you get about 500,000 or 600,000 foreigners who have moved here also leave.

00:50:38.500 But now it's gone up to something like 250,000.

00:50:41.040 No, it's not an infrequent conversation up with the missus.

00:50:43.080 If we leave, where do we go?

00:50:44.300 Everyone has this conversation.

00:50:45.340 Everyone has this conversation, of course.

00:50:47.100 My son's considering it.

00:50:48.600 And this is only going to, like, as he says, well, they might be speaking a good game about

00:50:54.220 reducing immigration, but they still let in 850,000 people last year.

00:50:58.160 So it's still a huge number.

00:51:00.240 And the Treasury will turn around and say, OK, but we're bleeding manpower.

00:51:04.700 If hundreds of thousands of Britons are leaving, they have to be replaced because our economic

00:51:09.820 model is predicated on perpetual population growth.

00:51:13.180 And we have to be honest about the type of people who are leaving who are British as well.

00:51:16.780 Yes.

00:51:17.080 They will be wealthy or highly skilled.

00:51:19.740 And they'll be probably taking their children who are probably highly educated.

00:51:24.280 The demographic of people I talk to who are leaving, left, or talking about leaving.

00:51:28.980 They're not people on benefits.

00:51:29.980 They're not people on benefits, no.

00:51:30.880 And so that brain drain is going to be ultimately long-term damaging for the country as well.

00:51:37.340 And so it's this kind of doom spiral that we're falling down into that he's identified.

00:51:42.760 And it's because of the kind of parasitic state and the mystery apparatus that can't

00:51:48.320 be controlled.

00:51:49.180 Because no one has ever held accountable for any of these things.

00:51:52.260 Because it's done in secret.

00:51:53.700 And the people that we elect, I mean, the entire argument behind democracy is, well,

00:51:58.020 if we don't like that person, we can hold them accountable and vote them out of office.

00:52:01.280 Okay, but that doesn't work if power is actually held by a managerial bureaucracy that operates 0.78

00:52:05.640 behind the scenes with secret processes and strange esoteric or, sorry, exoteric foreign

00:52:10.940 laws, right?

00:52:11.860 That can't work.

00:52:13.020 And that's what he's identifying, which is just genuinely brilliant.

00:52:16.320 And you can see Gove just looks out of his depth throughout the whole thing.

00:52:19.400 But anyway, so he...

00:52:20.220 Or guilty.

00:52:21.100 Well, yeah, there is that too.

00:52:22.680 He might be...

00:52:23.580 You'll notice at one point in there he goes, well, this is why I couldn't do everything

00:52:26.540 I wanted, because if you act very aggressively and fight every battle, the system views you

00:52:32.160 as a virus and starts forming antibodies to fight you.

00:52:35.440 And so, you know, this sort of system sort of locks ranks and keeps you out.

00:52:38.740 And it's like, well, okay, well, that's probably true, but not very courageous, is it?

00:52:43.680 But anyway, he goes on to explain what he thinks Farage's prospects are, which aligns

00:52:48.980 with what many of us have been saying.

00:52:50.460 Do you think Farage recognises the weaknesses that the electorate have identified?

00:52:54.260 And has he talked to you or people you trust about it?

00:52:58.720 I think intellectually Farage knows what I'm saying is true.

00:53:03.220 I've said this to him, and he didn't argue.

00:53:06.620 And I think you can't argue, right?

00:53:08.040 Like, you know, unless you want to be complete.

00:53:10.260 Farage is not...

00:53:10.880 I mean, a lot of people in Westminster are delusional.

00:53:13.980 But Farage is much less delusional than most of them.

00:53:17.320 And it's just an empirical fact that when you talk to people, voters on big things, voters

00:53:24.380 tend to get to the heart of these big questions, right?

00:53:28.380 They sniffed out...

00:53:29.260 When all of the pundits were saying, oh, Starmer and Sue Gray, there's serious grown-ups are 1.00

00:53:35.240 in charge, the voters knew this guy's a dud and he's going to be crap, right? 0.98

00:53:38.700 Like, most voters are way ahead of Westminster on all the big questions. 0.99

00:53:42.720 And the voters say over and over again, and Farage has been told this by lots of people,

00:53:48.900 they want to see a team and they want to see a plan.

00:53:52.960 Yeah, what doesn't Farage have?

00:53:56.740 Team or a plan?

00:53:57.960 Yeah, because it's not at all beyond the realms of possibility that this year, after

00:54:02.740 the May elections, essentially, Starmer is forced to resign by his own party and the

00:54:07.260 Labour Party have no one competent to replace him.

00:54:10.100 Well, the Labour backbenchers could vote down their own government in a competency motion

00:54:15.040 and he could be in within two years and he's got nothing.

00:54:19.400 He's got Zaire Youssef and that's it.

00:54:21.120 The interesting bit was a bit after this.

00:54:22.800 I don't know if you had it, but Cummings said if he was Farage, what he would be doing

00:54:27.040 is publicly advertising.

00:54:28.460 We are looking for 600 people to run.

00:54:30.760 We want the best people.

00:54:31.980 If you understand health, if you understand business, come in.

00:54:34.300 You're going to have to take one for the team, but you're going to come in.

00:54:36.460 You're going to be part of this administration to turn the country around and publicly run

00:54:40.660 that and we would see it.

00:54:41.820 We would see the jobs.

00:54:42.740 You would know the vetting procedure, but we're not seeing any of that.

00:54:45.500 And actually, the British Constitution has a mechanism to allow him to do that very smoothly.

00:54:50.900 So, yes, he needs MPs, but they could be cannon fodder.

00:54:54.780 He can find a quality person.

00:54:56.780 So, we're going to make you a lord.

00:54:58.160 We're going to make you the minister of something.

00:55:00.260 We're going to give you a lifetime peerage and then you have a nice fancy title.

00:55:02.940 We'll just run this thing for me for two years.

00:55:04.740 Loads of people will say, yeah, okay, I'll take a two-year career break to get a nice 0.94

00:55:08.060 fancy title and run something for you for a couple of years and then bugger off.

00:55:10.600 I think Farage's problem is a little bit similar to Poyev in Canada, whereby he's so

00:55:17.260 close to becoming prime minister, he may be fearing fumbling the ball and he wants to be prime minister.

00:55:23.080 He should be afraid of what happens the day after he becomes prime minister.

00:55:25.580 What's more important, becoming prime minister or what happens when you leave as prime minister?

00:55:32.220 Because there's no point becoming prime minister when you leave.

00:55:34.880 You leave as somebody who was impotent and hated.

00:55:37.200 You want to go in there knowing you could leave as someone who was celebrated, as a success,

00:55:41.360 thought about history as being great.

00:55:42.960 Well, I think to do that, you've got to go in with the mandate that the public wants,

00:55:46.120 which means you have to be brave right now.

00:55:47.900 Because the public are telling you what we want as a country.

00:55:51.720 And the thing is, everyone's like, well, the election isn't for another three years.

00:55:55.120 You don't know that, right?

00:55:56.740 It's entirely possible that the Labour Party falls into its own kind of doom loop like they

00:56:00.100 did with Truss and Boris and Sunak and Theresa May and all that.

00:56:05.060 Just straight spiral down.

00:56:07.220 So it's like, right, just call elections.

00:56:08.540 Just call elections.

00:56:09.280 Let's get a mandate.

00:56:10.380 At least something needs to happen.

00:56:12.040 You don't know that Keir Starmer is going to be the prime minister by the end of the year,

00:56:14.600 right?

00:56:15.520 It could well be that Farage is the prime minister by the end of the year.

00:56:18.980 And so you've got to have the plan now.

00:56:20.940 And not only that, that gives you the commanding position in politics.

00:56:24.140 Farage has been on the dip recently.

00:56:26.040 Because what's he saying?

00:56:27.060 What's he doing?

00:56:27.800 Well, nothing.

00:56:28.580 Well, he's allowing people to have his voice by coming after him.

00:56:32.280 And just think about it with Trump.

00:56:33.520 Look, I think Trump has failed in this term.

00:56:37.280 And like you said, he probably can't turn it around.

00:56:40.060 But he never stopped talking to the public.

00:56:43.060 He never stopped speaking the language of what voters want.

00:56:46.400 He still isn't.

00:56:47.380 I mean, to see the White House put out a tweet with a picture of him saying remigration.

00:56:52.840 I mean, that would have been totally toxic to talk about five years ago.

00:56:57.300 And so you have to speak the language of the public.

00:57:00.240 And I think, and I worry for Farage, like, who are the advisors?

00:57:04.680 Because I think, I actually think Trump, the one thing I'll say about him right now is,

00:57:09.940 I don't think he cares about advisors.

00:57:11.820 I think he has a good sense of the public, okay?

00:57:14.820 He's failed in this term, but he had a good sense.

00:57:16.720 And he just went out there and said what the public wanted to hear.

00:57:19.400 And that's why he got such a commanding win.

00:57:21.340 Farage needs to be doing that.

00:57:22.680 He needs to be out there talking constantly.

00:57:24.000 Farage should be on 40% easily.

00:57:25.600 Look how much press and publicity Zach Palazzi's getting. 1.00

00:57:29.380 And he is fundamentally a moron, like an unintelligent moron. 1.00

00:57:33.120 And Farage isn't intelligent. 1.00

00:57:34.860 If you talk, I mean, I've met him privately.

00:57:36.400 Smart guy.

00:57:37.060 When you chat to him privately, you suddenly realize there's an entirely different person

00:57:40.140 who's entirely different from what you see on camera.

00:57:42.180 Like, he's very intelligent.

00:57:43.560 He's very empathetic.

00:57:44.540 Very, you know, he thinks about these things.

00:57:46.720 People need to see this all the time.

00:57:48.100 He needs to be out there and talking.

00:57:50.380 But moreover, he needs to be constructing the plan.

00:57:53.600 Yes.

00:57:53.800 Like, I mean, don't get me wrong.

00:57:55.060 I like some of the people around Farage.

00:57:57.460 But, okay, is it Tice, Sarah Pochin?

00:58:00.880 You know, who are we talking about here?

00:58:03.460 A few more Tories would affect.

00:58:04.980 Yeah.

00:58:05.620 Danny Kruger's good, but it's just Danny Kruger.

00:58:08.860 Right?

00:58:09.200 Like, you know, where are your top-tier economists?

00:58:12.760 Like, there are a bunch of economists who are for Brexit.

00:58:14.700 Who are like, yeah, here's a slate of ideas.

00:58:17.040 And, of course, the Tories did none of them.

00:58:18.760 But why hasn't Farage just corralled all those people?

00:58:20.840 Because he's brittle and he's afraid one of them might outshine him.

00:58:24.380 Exactly.

00:58:25.080 And so I guess the question is, well, I mean, one of the best bits for me was him, Michael Gove, asking,

00:58:32.360 well, what about the Conservatives?

00:58:33.360 Can the Conservatives turn it around, right?

00:58:36.120 You know, he's a big fan of Kemmy Badenock, but can the Conservatives, you know,

00:58:39.860 bring in a firebrand of their own and turn it around?

00:58:43.120 And Cummings' answer was just gold.

00:58:45.400 Labour were going to put in Miliband or Rayner or someone on the left

00:58:48.340 because they just want a left person to do left things.

00:58:51.420 And they will drive all the pathologies worse and worse

00:58:53.840 and then they'll blame racism and capitalism and everything for that

00:58:59.460 and they'll just keep doubling down.

00:59:01.320 The Tories, I think, are dead.

00:59:02.980 The Tories have just moved on to a place even worse than universal loathing and hatred

00:59:09.580 to a kind of, they're kind of parked in the, you're just waiting to die space as far as...

00:59:16.260 So the public does think of them as sort of wheelwrights or Thatchers or stained glass window makers.

00:59:21.700 It's a quaint organisation irrelevant to modern life.

00:59:25.120 No, I wouldn't say quaint.

00:59:26.120 I'd say it's like some kind of, like...

00:59:28.800 I guess I'll put it more like, if you're going to have a metaphor like that,

00:59:31.800 I would say it's more like the local vagrant who used to smash everything up,

00:59:36.580 but he's now cabbaged and sitting in a wheelchair and isn't relevant anymore.

00:59:41.040 That's the metaphor that I would use.

00:59:46.280 I love the way the journalist glances at a boss and it's like,

00:59:49.600 I want to laugh at this, but I know that you were a foreign minister.

00:59:52.320 I think he's personally directing that at Gove.

00:59:56.400 Yes.

00:59:57.340 And another point, I haven't got the clip, where Gove's like,

01:00:00.540 so could I have been prime minister?

01:00:02.060 And Cummings is like, well, I don't want to insult you on air.

01:00:05.160 And he's like, no, no, no.

01:00:06.240 And he's like, well, yes, you could have been

01:00:07.840 because we're in a system that permits Sunaq, Boris and Truss.

01:00:11.080 And it was just the most insulting thing in the world.

01:00:15.140 What do you think would happen to the Conservative Party

01:00:18.700 if they gave the top job to Rupert Lowe?

01:00:22.320 I have no idea.

01:00:24.180 I honestly have no idea.

01:00:25.680 Because Rupert Lowe, with a mandate to do what he wants,

01:00:29.320 to gut out the old Liberal wets from the Conservatives,

01:00:33.200 would, I think a lot of people,

01:00:35.180 I think it would be a large problem for reform.

01:00:37.460 Oh, yeah.

01:00:37.960 Because a lot of people would vote for it.

01:00:39.540 For revenge of Rupert Lowe on the garage.

01:00:41.900 How dare you try and put me in there?

01:00:42.740 The advantage the Conservatives have is they have the infrastructure.

01:00:46.880 Like, a lot of it you don't want.

01:00:48.540 You don't want CCHQ.

01:00:49.620 But they have the infrastructure, the branch network,

01:00:52.460 to actually deliver.

01:00:54.040 And essentially, Rupert Lowe is kind of reformed.

01:00:56.980 So, hypothetically, it would absolutely work.

01:00:59.660 And that would be a serious contender and Tories would be back.

01:01:02.280 It's never going to happen because the power structure in the Tories

01:01:05.920 is essentially the leadership in the MPs.

01:01:08.640 And pretty much all of them would need to be replaced.

01:01:11.120 Yeah.

01:01:11.340 I mean, Desmond Swain from the New Forest, he can stay.

01:01:13.840 But the rest of them, they're just all going.

01:01:15.440 Yeah.

01:01:16.380 But if the Conservative Party doesn't want to face its own existential crisis...

01:01:20.360 Then they've got to fall on their swords.

01:01:21.740 Of course.

01:01:21.900 You need honourable men who are like,

01:01:23.980 no, I care about the institution more than my own career.

01:01:26.720 Does it look like they've got any of those?

01:01:28.900 Like, sorry, very few remain.

01:01:31.280 But they could genuinely win the next election.

01:01:33.760 They could hold the power of...

01:01:35.020 Well, when you say they, the category of Tory could,

01:01:38.860 the people who are currently in it and make it up,

01:01:41.960 all of them would have to go.

01:01:43.120 So it's Turkey's voting for Christmas.

01:01:44.520 So they won't do it.

01:01:45.080 Not all of them.

01:01:46.520 Sure, there are a couple.

01:01:47.080 I keep Katie Lambert.

01:01:47.860 There's maybe three.

01:01:48.760 Yeah.

01:01:49.320 But that's the point.

01:01:50.100 You can count on one hand how many actual good Tories there are.

01:01:52.900 You can count on one hand how many seats they're going to have in the next election.

01:01:56.300 Well, no, they're going to do slightly better than Labour, actually.

01:01:58.720 14 seats?

01:01:59.460 Two hands.

01:02:00.880 But the...

01:02:02.160 I've spoken to a few people inside the Tory party,

01:02:04.380 and they just don't think there's any mechanism to just hand the party to Rupert Lowe.

01:02:08.560 Like, they...

01:02:08.820 I mean, if they wanted, there would be a mechanism.

01:02:10.920 Well, I mean, it would have to essentially be a kind of consensus within the Tory party.

01:02:15.100 But even then, like, there's no procedure to do that,

01:02:19.760 because that's never happened before, right?

01:02:21.220 So they would have to invent one,

01:02:22.720 or Rupert Lowe would have to join them and basically lead an insurrection within the party,

01:02:26.740 which is possible, but I don't think he wants to join them.

01:02:29.360 I think he wants them to come crawling on their knees to him.

01:02:31.480 Yeah.

01:02:31.680 Which is funny.

01:02:32.340 Yeah.

01:02:33.100 So, you know.

01:02:34.320 But anyway, that was just the funniest thing in the world to me, though.

01:02:38.400 I love the fact that Michael Gove was trying to be like,

01:02:40.760 so yeah, do people think well of the Conservatives?

01:02:42.740 You know, like an old-fashioned industry?

01:02:44.580 No, they think you were a vague when you smashed things up,

01:02:46.760 who's now a cabbage in a wheelchair.

01:02:48.480 Like, I was making dinner when I was watching this,

01:02:51.480 and I was howling with laughter.

01:02:53.540 So is this part two, this bit?

01:02:54.820 This is the part two.

01:02:55.600 And it's the best bit.

01:02:56.660 Okay, so I didn't watch part two.

01:02:58.180 I didn't realise there was a second part.

01:02:59.500 And you can see Gove just taking this on his mighty chin,

01:03:03.160 just being like, right, okay, I guess I'm just going to suck that up.

01:03:06.300 And then we'll leave that there.

01:03:08.260 But the point is, I think Dominic Cummings is echoing a lot of the points

01:03:12.140 that we've been making about the system

01:03:14.680 and how the system is congenitally malformed at this point.

01:03:20.400 It requires essentially a kind of constitutional jihad against it.

01:03:25.260 We have to just be waging war against the way that the system is made up.

01:03:29.980 Basically, everything that was ever done by the Blair administration

01:03:32.920 has to be undone.

01:03:34.420 Everything.

01:03:35.100 Can we put him in jail as well?

01:03:36.320 Can we send him to The Hague?

01:03:37.620 I think he's the most evil person this country has produced.

01:03:39.580 Yeah, I mean, I personally would love to.

01:03:41.520 But from a practical standpoint,

01:03:44.100 it just has to be that the system itself is the problem.

01:03:47.880 And it has to be destroyed.

01:03:49.880 Are you going to do any of the comments before we move on?

01:03:51.400 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:51.920 A man who wears some Russian thing on his T-shirt 1.00

01:03:54.900 is definitely a man who needs to be heard.

01:03:56.460 That's Russian for come and see,

01:03:57.860 but I don't know what that's a reference to.

01:03:59.380 I have no idea.

01:04:00.560 But the thing is, it's Dominic Cummings.

01:04:03.500 We actually do need to hear his opinions on these things

01:04:05.620 because he's one of those intelligent outsiders

01:04:08.660 who actually managed to get inside for a few years.

01:04:12.640 And you don't get that kind of analysis

01:04:15.240 from anyone else on the inside, I'm afraid.

01:04:18.040 So I thought in this one, I would ask a question.

01:04:22.360 It's a nice, easy question.

01:04:23.700 So snappy answers, who are we going to deport?

01:04:25.840 Well, I told you me, I would actually start with the Labour Party

01:04:29.460 and probably anyone with blue hair.

01:04:31.200 Right.

01:04:31.860 Because they need to go on the list.

01:04:33.840 They need to go first because we are still in a democracy

01:04:36.800 and we don't want their votes affecting us making any strong decisions.

01:04:40.580 I say that as a joke.

01:04:41.520 Look, I think it's important to do this setup here.

01:04:47.220 And I'm probably more liberal side of the conservative people you get in.

01:04:51.880 But we're looking here at the interview between Andrew Gold and Steve Laws

01:04:56.660 and there is a fracturing within the conservative movement

01:05:00.060 between old conservatives who are kind of liberal wets

01:05:04.200 to traditional conservatives to civ-nats to eth-nats

01:05:08.440 to whatever comes...

01:05:09.400 Base to very base.

01:05:10.200 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:10.860 And a fracturing means it's harder to build a big tent

01:05:14.160 around what are solid ideas.

01:05:17.960 So if we are talking about immigration

01:05:19.920 and the country has accepted it's been a failed experiment,

01:05:23.040 what is sensible and palatable?

01:05:25.700 Yes.

01:05:25.940 And I think there is a scenario where you can keep everyone directionally happy.

01:05:30.880 If you take the ethnic position, one, their ideas crumble 1.00

01:05:35.560 on critical analysis.

01:05:37.740 Do they?

01:05:37.980 Well, I think Steve, what Steve Laws would, if Steve Laws ran a party

01:05:43.820 and suddenly became prime minister, trying to execute his plan would destroy...

01:05:48.000 Well, his is not the only ETHNAT position available.

01:05:51.180 Sure.

01:05:51.520 I will say that.

01:05:52.240 Sure.

01:05:52.700 I do want to do...

01:05:54.140 Should I just get to what I was saying?

01:05:56.120 Oh, yes.

01:05:56.360 I think a sensible, charismatic, conservative person can build a big enough tent under a sensible

01:06:03.740 immigration policy, which...

01:06:06.740 Yeah, but what is that sensible policy?

01:06:09.380 Because at the moment, only one man stood up and given an answer.

01:06:11.860 Everybody else has a vague notion of what it might be and talks around it, but only Steve

01:06:16.700 has come forward...

01:06:17.200 So just to give everybody a context, I won't play a lot of this at all.

01:06:20.800 Let me just play the first 30 seconds of why we're talking about this at the moment.

01:06:25.120 So Andrew Gold, who sort of popped up in recent years and suddenly become very successful,

01:06:29.860 was speaking to Steve Laws and they had a conversation about deportations.

01:06:34.180 Are you a racist?

01:06:35.480 That makes me racist, so be it. 0.84

01:06:36.900 I wear it proudly.

01:06:38.060 I've had enough.

01:06:39.060 I want everyone gone.

01:06:40.300 So someone's going to come knock on my door.

01:06:42.540 It's not personal.

01:06:43.820 It's necessary.

01:06:44.760 That will not work.

01:06:46.180 To find out who would have to be removed.

01:06:47.520 The easiest way to do this is medical records.

01:06:49.540 This is mental.

01:06:50.500 I don't believe you're European. 1.00

01:06:51.900 I think you're Jewish.

01:06:52.820 But I'm not going to Israel.

01:06:54.020 Yeah, if I had power, mate, you would be. 0.97

01:06:58.400 You shake your leg and get aggressive when we talk about Jews being European. 0.97

01:07:03.080 Ian, I'm not shaking my leg and just giving you...

01:07:04.640 I just have a twitch.

01:07:05.520 The twitch only comes up when Jews are mentioned.

01:07:07.200 We can move on to another topic if you want to.

01:07:09.680 I've envisioned millions of people being thrown onto planes and deported from my country.

01:07:13.460 I think Tommy Robinson will fight against that. 0.92

01:07:15.200 Tommy Robinson will do because he's a traitor.

01:07:16.900 Tommy Robinson has loads of foreign friends.

01:07:19.020 He promotes multiculturalism. 1.00

01:07:20.340 He's a Zionist piece of shit. 1.00

01:07:21.620 Do you have any room in your mind for that? 1.00

01:07:23.020 You might be wrong.

01:07:24.060 No.

01:07:25.760 So anyway, I won't play too much of that.

01:07:27.740 But that's the concept.

01:07:28.440 And that's why we've all been talking about...

01:07:29.740 Well, yeah, but what is the deportation criteria?

01:07:34.080 Because Steve, to be fair, you might be able to pick some holes in it.

01:07:37.360 And you might be able to say, well, edge case this, edge case that.

01:07:40.000 But at least he's actually given an answer.

01:07:42.840 I mean, there's a fundamental proposition that he's basing all of this on.

01:07:46.800 And that is, England is the home of the English.

01:07:49.180 And therefore, it's the collective property of the English.

01:07:50.820 And a corollary of that is that we have a right to feel demographically secure in our country.

01:07:57.800 As in, at the moment, if you look at the country, we're somewhere between 65% and 75% English.

01:08:03.520 Going down fast.

01:08:04.100 Going down fast because they're cramming in as many foreigners as they can. 1.00

01:08:07.040 And millions of people are deciding, you know, I think I'm just going to leave.

01:08:09.940 And this is unacceptable.

01:08:13.160 And those propositions, Steve Laws is fundamentally correct on.

01:08:17.660 Right?

01:08:17.840 It's fundamentally correct.

01:08:18.720 And it's just not arguable from any position on the spectrum.

01:08:22.920 Right?

01:08:23.020 The left would be like, oh, no, England doesn't belong to anyone.

01:08:26.060 It's like, well, then you've got no argument for Palestine, do you? 1.00

01:08:28.880 It doesn't belong to the Palestinians. 1.00

01:08:30.100 And actually, the Israelis have done nothing wrong with the West Bank.

01:08:32.320 Just, you know, bulldozing homes and whatnot.

01:08:34.440 That argument collapses in on itself.

01:08:36.300 And I don't even know why anyone on the right would argue against the idea that collectively the English have the claim to England.

01:08:41.640 So, best on that, would you describe yourself as an FNAP?

01:08:43.860 No, because I'm not a nationalist.

01:08:45.900 Because nationalism is a whole different...

01:08:47.720 It's French, you're going to say.

01:08:48.780 It is, but it's a whole different way of looking at the world.

01:08:52.160 But the point is, the issue is, do groups of people have collective claims?

01:08:58.280 And the answer is yes.

01:08:59.320 We agree that J.K. Rowling, women have a collective claim to have women-only spaces away from men.

01:09:04.740 Yes, they do.

01:09:05.740 Groups have claims.

01:09:07.320 Do the Palestinians have a claim to Palestine?

01:09:09.300 Yes, they do.

01:09:09.800 Do the Israelis have a claim to Israel? 0.74

01:09:10.960 Yes, they do.

01:09:11.680 Do the English have a claim to England?

01:09:12.940 Yes, they do.

01:09:13.700 And therefore, right, that's the question.

01:09:16.100 So, all of these buzz labels, none of that really matters, because they're not really properly articulating what the problem actually is.

01:09:26.060 They're a function of Twitter discourse, which isn't actually getting to the heart of the issue.

01:09:30.480 And so the question is, well, how do we establish a regime under which the demographic security of the English is maintained, and the nature of the state is geared towards looking out for that interest?

01:09:48.320 Because in every other country, it's either assumed, or in some countries it is written into the Constitution, that the majority ethnic group of the country will remain the majority ethnic group of the country.

01:09:59.280 So give you a data point on that.

01:10:00.660 But, moreover, the government itself will act in the interests of that majority, whereas what we have is the opposite.

01:10:07.040 We have a government that's operating in the interests of universal liberal human rights and the economy, and so it is bringing in millions of people and giving them rights above our own.

01:10:17.740 And that's not an acceptable position.

01:10:19.640 And that, in fact, it makes Steve's position seem a lot stronger, because, well, why are we living in such an unjust way under a government that purportedly is our own?

01:10:29.880 So what I was going to say on that is four out of five Anglo countries in the world today have special laws which privilege the indigenous population.

01:10:39.680 Really?

01:10:40.100 Yes.

01:10:40.920 Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

01:10:42.060 Ah, but when they say indigenous, they don't mean the Anglo population.

01:10:44.340 Nope, they mean the indigenous. 1.00

01:10:45.860 So all I would ask for is, well, why can't we have it as well in the last remaining Anglo country that doesn't have special privileges for the indigenous people?

01:10:54.020 The problem with that, though, is we dispossess the Canadians, the Australians, the Americans from their own countries as well, because these countries didn't exist.

01:11:03.040 Yeah, but they put those laws in place. 0.86

01:11:04.860 Yeah, but the indigenous Canadian is not a Native American, right, because Canada didn't exist. 0.80

01:11:09.500 So, you know, that's an Iroquois tribesman or whatever it is, but an actual Canadian is someone of Anglo-French heritage.

01:11:17.400 That's what a Canadian is. 0.99

01:11:19.160 An Australian is a criminal. 1.00

01:11:21.480 No, I'm joking. 0.99

01:11:22.900 And, again, Anglo-Irish or something like that, right?

01:11:26.640 So this is what an Australian is, because Australia just didn't exist.

01:11:30.820 Canada just didn't exist.

01:11:31.260 But that's a long way around.

01:11:32.680 I mean, are all three of us agreed that re-migration is necessary? 1.00

01:11:35.960 Because I absolutely am.

01:11:37.400 Millions of people have to go home.

01:11:38.800 Are you on board with that, Pete?

01:11:40.100 Well, so I always want to know what are the policies?

01:11:42.260 So my question to this is what are the policies and how much power do you have to accumulate to do it?

01:11:46.620 Because re-migration can be quite broad.

01:11:49.640 Yes.

01:11:49.800 OK. And so what is it we're talking about and what is it that puts the best interests of the public at first?

01:11:54.760 So I think it's very easy to say we should go to close to zero legal and illegal migration unless it's somebody coming in to do it.

01:12:03.000 So, for example, we could go to zero immigration, but we might want doctors because it takes a long time to train doctors.

01:12:09.560 We might want to fill positions.

01:12:10.920 We might want to bring people in from other countries.

01:12:12.800 That's good for the health of the country.

01:12:14.120 So we can have a sensible policy around that.

01:12:17.180 OK. I think we can all agree that people who've committed a crime, who've come to this country, we should be able to deport them. 1.00

01:12:24.360 But I do think there's an important question to ask.

01:12:26.340 Say if somebody commits a horrific crime, rape of a child, and we're not sure if we deport them to another country, they will then go on to rape other children.

01:12:35.480 Should we hold them in our cells unless the other country is willing to take them to put them in a cell there? 1.00

01:12:41.260 No, we should hang them. 0.56

01:12:42.300 Well, that's an alternative, but we don't have that law at the moment. 0.99

01:12:44.920 We could.

01:12:45.440 OK, but we could.

01:12:46.280 But while we don't and while we might not get it through, you know, if there's 40,000 foreign criminals in our jails, but I don't know, 1% is people who've committed horrific crimes,

01:12:58.280 I'm willing to compromise on the 1%, hold them, and send the other 39%. 0.99

01:13:02.420 I then also think we have to look at the benefit system, how that's being used to grift.

01:13:06.320 I think that's an incentive structure.

01:13:07.740 It goes back to the surface area of the state.

01:13:09.840 So I tend to want to know about the nuance a bit more, but I agree that we do need to look at this quite seriously.

01:13:16.340 I think if you put the right policies in place, a lot of people will just leave.

01:13:19.960 They will just leave themselves, and you won't have to throw them onto planes and spend a lot of money.

01:13:25.160 Excuse me?

01:13:25.680 It's like methadone for immigration. 0.98

01:13:28.320 But was anything that I was saying about my general conception of what the state is for and who it should be operating in the interest of objectionable?

01:13:38.160 Well, we had this conversation before.

01:13:40.720 Like, it's what, how do you define what is an English person?

01:13:44.040 I'm half Irish.

01:13:45.420 Am I English?

01:13:46.320 Do I have a claim?

01:13:47.320 Are you half English?

01:13:48.180 I'm half English.

01:13:48.800 But sometimes when these conversations happen, it depends on which country you're asked from.

01:13:54.660 So I'm always just, I just want to know those because it's all well and good saying it.

01:13:59.000 But if you have to create policies, those policies can be litigated.

01:14:01.620 Will it be litigated?

01:14:02.660 How will it be litigated?

01:14:03.680 So I'm not opposed to any of this.

01:14:05.660 I just want to know how it will happen because for the country to be happy, we have to then write the policies and accumulate the power to make this happen.

01:14:14.780 Otherwise, it comes through violence.

01:14:16.120 But it won't come through violence in the next year.

01:14:18.080 It's going to be decades away.

01:14:19.480 So we just have to be a little bit smart about it.

01:14:21.060 Well, the violence is already happening.

01:14:22.500 It's just that both sides are not taking part.

01:14:25.220 Sure.

01:14:25.900 Sure.

01:14:26.580 Yeah.

01:14:27.480 Now, I mean, some of the pushback on Steve Laws has been, well, go on then, define it, you know, break it down.

01:14:33.660 Because, I mean, I'm actually in the position where I've done a gene test we all did for a lads hour.

01:14:38.560 I'm actually 100% British and Irish.

01:14:41.320 You can say, well, Steve's only 2%.

01:14:42.960 Steve's 2% Irish.

01:14:44.220 He has to go.

01:14:44.880 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:45.720 So that's the thing, right?

01:14:46.900 So I think he said that mixed race kids have to go because they're, say, 50% not English.

01:14:52.080 So presumably it's somewhere between 50% and 100% a line is triggered.

01:14:56.440 And a lot of people are saying to Steve, well, OK, well, therefore you've got to define it.

01:14:59.360 You know, how does it work?

01:15:00.420 And the danger is I think he's just going to keep getting thrown these edge cases because if it comes down to a mechanism of governance, you do actually need to draw a line somewhere at some point.

01:15:09.820 But moreover, you're kind of on the wrong end of the discussion if you're forced to introduce, like, arbitrary three-fifths compromises, right?

01:15:19.380 Yeah.

01:15:19.560 You're making a mistake.

01:15:20.200 It gets really messy.

01:15:20.880 It's not just that, but you're kind of on the defensive there, right, rather than taking ground.

01:15:26.280 Rather than doing anything intrusive and invasive, the problem with doing intrusive stuff is any exercise of state power ends up having a hard edge that cuts against someone else. 0.91

01:15:38.060 And so on the other side, you've always got bullshit lefty Hollywood creators who are going to spend decades polluting your memory and making the Nelson Mandelas of the world famous liberal sweethearts when actually he was literally a terrorist, a communist terrorist, right?

01:15:57.460 And so I think you've got to make sure that you don't end up stepping on this rake, right? 0.95

01:16:03.300 And so hard, like, yeah, okay, technically, you might be able to recruit 100,000 really rough guys and just burst into communities, just grab entire families, shove them on a plane and just get them out, right?

01:16:14.060 That's not going to age well.

01:16:15.640 That's going to age really badly, even if you think that is immediately necessary.

01:16:20.480 And the risk of that also, by the way, is that the reaction is so bad from the left and the center ground is that you lose the next election.

01:16:28.320 A lot of this gets unwound.

01:16:29.340 And assuming you can even win a coalition with that kind of rhetoric buzzing around your party, right?

01:16:35.180 Because I agree with you, to win an election, you need a Big Ten, and that means you're going to have to take the most moderate position as the most likely position.

01:16:42.060 And so I think that is fair and correct.

01:16:44.920 And if this is such a pressing issue, which, of course, I agree that it is, then what actually does just staking out the most hardline position actually do, right?

01:16:54.740 But it's not really very conducive to building a coalition that can actually win elections, that can actually implement policy.

01:17:01.540 It's more about attacking the people around you, right?

01:17:05.020 Attacking the people who should be.

01:17:06.280 Well, that's the uncharitable interpretation.

01:17:07.840 The charitable interpretation would be what he's doing is he's out there on the flank taking all the arrows for us so that our position seems actually quite reasonable.

01:17:16.440 And you know what?

01:17:17.180 I appreciate, Steve, for doing that.

01:17:19.220 Or?

01:17:19.680 Because we do seem a lot more moderate now, don't we?

01:17:22.100 Yes.

01:17:22.280 You know what it's like to be me now.

01:17:25.760 But also, there's also another argument.

01:17:28.400 It's like the Fuentes position that what he's establishing is a voting bloc that says if you want us, we want to be part of the conversation.

01:17:34.760 Sure.

01:17:35.100 Which is also another argument.

01:17:36.300 I think that potentially collapses as well.

01:17:38.800 But I just think that if long term it's about demographic protection to what someone like Steve wants, you can do this through certain shifts in policies and certain incentives that just naturally returns the order.

01:17:53.320 But we also have to face, and this is why I always talk about inflation and money as well, because this is all well and good.

01:17:59.060 But if people aren't having babies, we have another issue in this country.

01:18:02.300 So this has to be tied to the economic opportunity for young people so they can get jobs, buy homes, and build families, because otherwise we're screwed anyway.

01:18:11.160 There is a lot of evidence to suggest that actually immigration does suppress the birth rate because of exactly...

01:18:16.160 Competition of resources.

01:18:17.240 Exactly.

01:18:17.540 And just a general sort of psychic sense of dispossession, it seems, that people don't feel comfortable and safe raising children in an area that has been diversified, and so they don't.

01:18:28.740 That, sure, feels a bit abstract.

01:18:31.880 There is a reality of the cost of having a child.

01:18:34.480 Sure, and I'm not...

01:18:36.000 Sorry, I wasn't trying to denigrate the practical material concerns either, but it's in addition to those things.

01:18:41.480 The feeling of safety and comfort is important to whether you're going to have a family or not.

01:18:46.420 So the point being, I'm personally of the opinion that I think you are correct broadly on the...

01:18:54.280 You want it to be an incentive structure, right?

01:18:57.120 I think, obviously, with illegal immigrants, you can just grab them and deport them. 1.00

01:19:01.200 The public is not going to complain about you. 0.97

01:19:03.480 The lefty, arty types can't really say that you're the bad guy for deporting illegal rapist number 27 or whatever, right? 0.94

01:19:11.140 No one's going to buy that. 0.95

01:19:12.220 You might have somebody with a mobile phone, rather than saying, fraud is bad, is saying, I don't know, rape is bad.

01:19:18.880 You could have the lefty doing the same again there.

01:19:21.360 Exactly, but it's not something that's going to curse the country, because, I mean, honestly, I lived in Germany for eight years.

01:19:27.920 We do not want to saddle future generations with a kind of generational guilt. 0.99

01:19:31.780 Oh, Germans are screwed up. 1.00

01:19:32.860 You do not want to do that. 0.99

01:19:33.940 So anything that we did would have to be done in a certain way, or else it's a curse.

01:19:40.180 So I've got a proposal, and I think it is within the liberal framework.

01:19:43.060 Only at least it's a hell of a lot more liberal that will follow if we don't do something like this.

01:19:46.540 So what I said at the beginning, every Anglo country apart from Britain has laws that give special privileges to the indigenous population.

01:19:55.120 So I would do that.

01:19:56.360 I would define the indigenous population as anyone who has any British ancestry.

01:20:01.640 So just grandparent or something.

01:20:03.080 Yeah, and I mean, I would make this one in four British grandparents would be enough for me, because otherwise you get into that game that I talked about earlier.

01:20:12.080 But also, having this kind of flexibility changes the nature of where they're going to attack you, right?

01:20:18.160 Because if you're like, yeah, okay, you have to have like four British grandparents or three...

01:20:22.340 Then that's exactly what I want to avoid.

01:20:24.180 Yeah, they come at you going, okay, well, I'm going to argue the ice cases.

01:20:28.160 If you expand it, now they're arguing downstream of you.

01:20:32.320 Yes.

01:20:32.560 So, sorry, Karen.

01:20:33.420 Yeah, and I would make that basically, can you, do you have lineage in this country that goes back before 1945?

01:20:39.660 You know, pick the war.

01:20:40.500 I mean, pick some arbitrary date, but the war seems like an appropriate one. 1.00

01:20:43.520 Do you have British lineage back to that?

01:20:45.380 If you do, you're eligible for welfare and contesting parliamentary seats, that sort of stuff, holding high office.

01:20:52.460 If you don't, well, fine, maybe you can live here, but you're not getting any welfare and you're not going in parliament.

01:20:56.700 Because then you avoid all the questions of like what percentage, all these sorts of things.

01:21:01.420 But then I haven't forced anyone to do anything.

01:21:03.500 Exactly.

01:21:03.840 But millions will self-deport.

01:21:06.520 And you could even say something like, okay, and this kicks in in three years' time.

01:21:11.080 If you go now, you can have a lump sum, which is the remainder of that three-year term of your welfare if you just go now.

01:21:17.980 Yeah, I mean, the Danes did this as well.

01:21:20.180 They paid the Dane geld.

01:21:21.760 But this is another thing, just turning off the spigot.

01:21:25.000 Stop allowing people in and stop giving them money.

01:21:27.320 And then millions will just leave on their own backs.

01:21:29.740 Because a huge amount, like taxing remittances would probably deport millions of people.

01:21:33.440 The only other, I'd go two steps further.

01:21:37.180 One is to allow no new mosques and close ones down that we've already got. 0.99

01:21:40.500 And the second one.

01:21:41.120 But even then, there will be people making moral arguments against you on this, right?

01:21:45.640 Yeah.

01:21:45.740 You essentially want anything that there's just no moral argument against.

01:21:50.320 And that's the way I went on the first bit.

01:21:53.560 On the second bit, sorry, I'm going to take the hit. 0.98

01:21:55.340 I'm just going to close the bloody mosques. 1.00

01:21:56.960 And the last thing is just apply existing law uniformly. 0.96

01:22:02.980 And, for example, food standards, no more halal and kosher.

01:22:07.640 I mean, that's fine.

01:22:09.220 Preventing halal slaughter, so any meat that they want has got to be imported, so it's an increased cost.

01:22:13.400 No, no, no, not allow it.

01:22:14.460 Well, I mean, if you need halal meat, you can bloody go vegetarian. 0.74

01:22:17.980 Yeah, but someone's going to be like, right, so you're going to starve these people, right?

01:22:20.140 That's what they're like.

01:22:20.720 They can eat a carrot.

01:22:21.420 Yeah, I know, but the point is you're burning political capital unnecessarily, right?

01:22:24.480 And again, like targeting mosques, this isn't a necessary use of political capital.

01:22:28.180 Why not use that political capital to remove the desire for mosques in the future? 1.00

01:22:31.860 I will say my first proposal does like 95% of the work.

01:22:34.880 It does.

01:22:35.280 But like, for example...

01:22:36.820 The rest is personal.

01:22:38.020 Yes, it is.

01:22:39.400 It kind of is.

01:22:40.560 Deport anyone connected to a grooming gang, right?

01:22:42.900 That was Rupert Lowe's position.

01:22:44.400 It's like, look, if we, you know, you all knew that the grooming gangs were going on.

01:22:47.800 The wives knew, the children knew.

01:22:49.780 You're all going back to Pakistan, right? 1.00

01:22:51.800 That is a large lump of a community, a very large lump.

01:22:55.860 But you're doing the thing that you accused me of, which is burning political capital on...

01:22:59.280 Well, no, I think that's a perfectly defensible position.

01:23:01.240 Well, I think my mosques is perfectly defensible. 1.00

01:23:02.540 I'm not saying it's not defensible, but you'll get activists and like liberal types will start making loads of arguments. 0.84

01:23:07.800 They'll make the arguments against the rape gangs too, but you'll always be able to come out and go, this is a family of rapists. 0.86

01:23:12.560 Okay.

01:23:13.100 Well, you're going to have to get rid of the ECHR first.

01:23:15.300 Well, obviously.

01:23:15.760 Oh, yeah.

01:23:16.140 Obviously, yeah, yeah.

01:23:16.680 You remove any legal barriers.

01:23:18.460 And lots and lots of Whitehall.

01:23:20.480 It's all got to go.

01:23:21.140 Sure.

01:23:21.640 But that's the constitutional issue rather than the demographic issue.

01:23:27.000 But fundamentally, just to finish this off because we're running out of time,

01:23:30.300 he's not wrong to be arguing for the demographic security of the English people in England, obviously.

01:23:37.500 Yeah.

01:23:37.960 Well, no, I mean, I just very quickly say it sounds like Carl and I broadly agree on the how to do it.

01:23:42.480 And then we're just discussing how we would spend our last bit of political capital.

01:23:45.800 You want to deport certain groups. 0.92

01:23:47.560 I want to close mosques. 1.00

01:23:48.520 What would you do?

01:23:49.440 Yeah, but deporting certain groups would close mosques.

01:23:51.940 Well, yeah, that as well.

01:23:52.760 Yeah.

01:23:53.300 What would you do, Pete?

01:23:54.320 How would you do it?

01:23:56.700 What, my political capital?

01:23:57.780 So I'm really interested in who can hold office, who can hold political office,

01:24:03.280 because I would hate the UK to become like Lebanon. 1.00

01:24:10.000 Like Minnesota.

01:24:10.960 Yeah, like Minnesota, but specifically, there is a correlation between votes and religion.

01:24:19.040 And the problem is religion can set the base laws of a country.

01:24:21.520 Yeah.

01:24:22.080 I think we've crossed that point.

01:24:23.300 I was born, I was raised a Christian, a Catholic, and I'm, but I'm more towards atheism, really.

01:24:31.680 I just, I'm not practicing Christian, but I'm very happy for the foundational laws of this country to be based in Christianity.

01:24:37.480 If you look at the laws within Muslim countries, there is a distinct difference because it's based on Islam.

01:24:45.640 And I think there is a correlation between if you're Muslim, you're more likely to vote for a Muslim candidate,

01:24:52.340 which means there's going to be political influence for things that are more suited to shift the laws towards their religion.

01:24:58.400 And that gets us in a position where we will have ideological clashes.

01:25:02.700 I mean, nowhere in the history of the world have long-term religions sat side by side and got on well.

01:25:08.780 It just doesn't happen.

01:25:09.500 It didn't happen in Northern Ireland.

01:25:10.440 Well, it can happen, but there has to be an express hierarchy.

01:25:13.840 Yeah, exactly.

01:25:14.900 So, for example...

01:25:15.540 Which we're not prepared to count as.

01:25:16.520 I think Pakistan has 10 seats in their parliament for minority religions.

01:25:20.300 And I think you can only be president if you are Muslim. 1.00

01:25:22.640 I'm not opposed to the idea that we try and separate religion and state. 0.98

01:25:28.060 And we say we do, but we really don't because we allow it through political influence.

01:25:32.220 I'd probably burn my political capital on that.

01:25:36.220 Interesting.

01:25:37.020 Then I'll focus on the money.

01:25:38.500 Anyway, so, yeah, I mean, you are right, Dan.

01:25:41.920 Basically, other people need to start staking out other positions on this.

01:25:45.960 Yeah.

01:25:46.140 If they don't want...

01:25:47.300 Because only Steve Laws has done so.

01:25:49.220 So, I mean, good for him.

01:25:50.040 Let's go to some of the comments.

01:25:54.100 Have we got video comments today?

01:25:57.200 There's a great comment from the website.

01:25:59.380 You in here.

01:26:00.000 It's like, Gove is a snake being cornered by a mongoose.

01:26:03.380 And that is genuinely how it felt watching...

01:26:06.080 They actually look like it as well.

01:26:07.180 Yeah, exactly.

01:26:07.580 They look it as well, you know.

01:26:09.120 That's a great analogy.

01:26:10.580 Let's go to the video comments.

01:26:15.720 Good morning and happy new year, Lotus Eaters.

01:26:19.160 Yes.

01:26:20.040 It's the first rising sun of the new year.

01:26:26.240 We missed a little bit of it because of the cloud cover this morning.

01:26:30.320 But this is considered auspicious in Japan.

01:26:35.640 We're here at Saratoga Lake in New York.

01:26:37.940 Lovely, though.

01:26:41.360 Lovely shot.

01:26:42.540 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:26:43.600 You know, it's the first time in five years riding my bike into work.

01:26:46.820 I've come off my bike today because of the bloody ice.

01:26:48.980 Yeah, I skidded off my feet.

01:26:51.040 Yeah, it's mad.

01:26:52.300 It's like black ice.

01:26:54.260 Is there another one?

01:26:54.860 Evening, Lotus Eaters and crew, and to all a Merry Christmas.

01:26:59.260 I'm a licensed firearms holder in Australia, particularly New South Wales.

01:27:04.300 So if you ever need any questions answered, I can answer those.

01:27:07.220 Also regarding certain restrictions, safekeeping laws, and among other things that would have

01:27:13.680 easily broken the laws leading up to the event.

01:27:16.980 That should have easily flagged them for a particular thing.

01:27:20.860 And if Faraz is ever interested in looking at Australia's issue with particular Middle Eastern groups,

01:27:26.920 I would suggest looking into the Cronulla riots, and more particularly ask Helen Dale about it.

01:27:32.880 She might have more information on it.

01:27:36.540 The screen's gone blank there, Samson.

01:27:39.900 There we go.

01:27:40.880 Let's go to the next one.

01:27:42.080 From Starwave Toys, it's the Quality Leering Centre playset.

01:27:45.180 The place where kids can't read good, but the cash sure does.

01:27:47.620 Whoa, empty decks.

01:27:48.560 Load up the money counter and watch the grants roll in.

01:27:50.360 Shut the door.

01:27:51.060 Deploy the fully armed Somalian security figure.

01:27:53.020 He's got the place on lock.

01:27:54.260 Create daring government audits and massive defrauding action.

01:27:56.660 Just...

01:27:56.980 I'll tell you all right.

01:27:58.280 Everyone complains about AI.

01:28:00.760 But they're great for political commentary.

01:28:02.760 I love it.

01:28:03.160 I don't complain about AI.

01:28:04.120 I love it. 0.99

01:28:04.880 Somebody gave me AI tits. 1.00

01:28:06.520 Yeah. 0.94

01:28:07.780 I'm not sure if I like it or not.

01:28:08.980 It's strangely alluring.

01:28:10.640 Have you seen this thing for the last 24 hours of a grok where it's asking to remove images?

01:28:14.780 Yeah.

01:28:15.240 Yeah, I did say it backfired on me quite a lot.

01:28:17.120 It's a truth bomb.

01:28:17.560 It removed his shirt for some reason.

01:28:18.780 Yeah.

01:28:18.960 Let's go to the next one.

01:28:24.320 Oh, here we go.

01:28:26.180 Merry Christmas.

01:28:28.720 What?

01:28:29.720 Have they got the voice slightly closer?

01:28:31.420 Hmm.

01:28:33.520 There's a reason not to get the voice as well. 0.99

01:28:35.040 That's more unsettling than my AI tits, I've got to say. 0.98

01:28:43.720 There's something uncanny valley about that one. 0.99

01:28:47.140 Yeah.

01:28:48.400 Uh...

01:28:49.000 Good afternoon, gentlemen, and Happy New Year.

01:28:52.180 Well, we ended up with a bit of a brown Christmas, but we had a snowfall the day after Christmas, and, well, when you need to tackle a heavy snowfall, here's the device you use.

01:29:05.160 And, hey, here's a brief song.

01:29:08.520 Better watch out.

01:29:09.840 I think she's a guy.

01:29:11.120 I ain't quite sure, but something ain't right.

01:29:13.800 Bridget Macron's coming to town. 0.53

01:29:16.760 Man, the Bridget Macron thing is just nonsense.

01:29:20.420 Mm-hmm.

01:29:21.560 She's a woman. 0.82

01:29:22.260 She's just a groomer. 1.00

01:29:24.060 She's just in the 70s. 0.91

01:29:25.240 Being a massive pedo is enough. 0.96

01:29:26.740 Yeah. 0.99

01:29:27.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:28.360 It's enough, is it not? 0.96

01:29:29.820 Yeah, actually, Candice has made it so ridiculous. 0.93

01:29:31.980 We've overlooked the grooming. 0.82

01:29:33.880 Yeah, exactly.

01:29:34.940 She was literally grooming it.

01:29:36.280 He's younger than her children.

01:29:38.900 It's mad.

01:29:39.960 Anyway, we have the Gold Tier Zoom call in half an hour, by the way.

01:29:43.380 I forgot to announce that at the beginning of the podcast.

01:29:45.720 I'm not sure who's on it.

01:29:47.060 I'm not on it.

01:29:47.980 Me and Luca probably.

01:29:48.720 I could be, I suppose.

01:29:49.400 I don't know.

01:29:50.380 We're just going to sit around and show you a Gold Tier subscriber.

01:29:53.520 Come and join us, and we'll have a nice little New Year's chat.

01:29:55.580 This is actually December's Gold Tier Zoom call.

01:29:59.240 Just, we could do it today, so we're going to.

01:30:01.420 Yeah, that's the way the calendar keeps rotating, isn't it?

01:30:05.200 Roman Observer said,

01:30:07.160 How could we believe that Lowe, as the head of the Tories, would be on the right path?

01:30:10.640 Maybe if he started by deporting Kemi.

01:30:12.980 Well, yeah.

01:30:14.580 Yeah, but, I mean.

01:30:15.540 I wouldn't deport her.

01:30:16.380 I'd just deny her benefits and the ability to hold this parliamentary seat. 0.68

01:30:19.900 What's remarkable about Kemi is how little impact she's making, right?

01:30:23.240 Like, the first black woman as the leader of a party, nobody cares. 1.00

01:30:30.340 Nobody cares what you're doing.

01:30:31.820 That time has passed.

01:30:32.760 What have you done this for? 0.85

01:30:34.020 You know, she's a black woman. 1.00

01:30:36.080 She's a boss. 0.99

01:30:38.320 Like, you know, like.

01:30:39.420 The whole, the first thing doesn't cut it.

01:30:41.760 No, it's all gone.

01:30:42.580 Yeah.

01:30:42.820 And now she's just, I don't know.

01:30:45.780 Like, nobody thinks about her.

01:30:46.820 She never comes up in any kind of political discourse.

01:30:49.860 Forgettable.

01:30:50.560 Exactly.

01:30:50.920 But then conservatives are generally, aren't they?

01:30:52.460 Henry says, an important thing to remember is the system will rally to protect itself.

01:30:58.140 It isn't doing it based on some sort of top-down leadership of it.

01:31:01.520 The incentives at each level push everyone in the system to defend itself.

01:31:04.720 None of the civil service are going back to a reformation because they'd be out of a job.

01:31:08.840 And the only reason that they haven't been sacked yet is because it's legally impossible to sack them.

01:31:11.980 And that's another good point as well.

01:31:13.320 There were parts of that interview where Gove was kind of accusing Dominic of being conspiratorial.

01:31:20.320 I was like, no.

01:31:21.700 This is all the way they work and they always have worked.

01:31:24.520 And Henry here is exactly right.

01:31:25.900 The thing will just tighten because everyone involved realises that this is their pensions on the line.

01:31:32.880 So, completely true.

01:31:34.920 But anyway, I'm afraid we have run out of time there.

01:31:36.880 So, Peter, where can people find more of you?

01:31:39.140 Just Twitter, Peter McCormack or The Peter McCormack Show on YouTube.

01:31:42.760 Thanks for having me.

01:31:43.500 I really enjoyed this.

01:31:44.340 Thanks so much for coming.

01:31:45.120 Yeah, thanks for coming along.

01:31:45.840 Hopefully this doesn't ruin you.

01:31:48.180 I won't read the comments.

01:31:50.040 It's not the comments I'd be worried about.

01:31:51.840 Anyway, thanks for joining us, folks.

01:31:53.400 We'll see you in half an hour for the Gold Tier Zoom call.

01:31:55.260 See you then.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - January 02, 2026

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1324

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