The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1389

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Podcast of the Lotus Eaters, episode 1389, on Friday the 3rd of April, year of our Lord 2026.

00:00:08.140 I'm joined by Josh. Hello. And Nick. Hello.

00:00:11.420 And we've got a banger podcast for you today, all upbeat.

00:00:16.060 We're going to be talking about how excited it is that our humanity is going to the moon for the very first time,

00:00:21.620 how exciting it is that the British are villains again, and why ethno-nationalism is inevitable.

00:00:28.220 so with that why don't we begin with um josh okay i thought as it's friday let's talk about

00:00:35.640 something actually good and it is a very good thing and that is the artemis 2 launch and although

00:00:41.160 there have been some people saying that you know some of the technology could be better

00:00:44.680 and you know perhaps they could have saved a bit more money because it's publicly funded however

00:00:50.800 i would argue that using resources um however efficiently to go up to space and push the

00:00:58.140 frontiers of humanity is probably one of the best uses of resources available to humanity who's

00:01:04.720 saying the technology is bad um i don't know engineer people okay i don't i don't know enough

00:01:10.120 about it you know i'm a psychologist i can't weigh in here if we wanted to use superior technology

00:01:14.920 why didn't we just get the 1950s stuff out and do that and then we would actually get a land as

00:01:19.640 well as just go around it well i think the idea is of this um launch i'll play this in the

00:01:26.340 background just so we can actually see the rocket as i talk about it oh i don't want the music

00:01:31.840 though but there you go um the idea is that it's going to go around it's going to collect data

00:01:38.420 for the next mission which is actually landing on the moon and then eventually on mars as well

00:01:43.740 and these sorts of things are going to pave the way to have bases on the moon and maybe even

00:01:48.780 eventually mars i think that the consensus is that the moon's probably easier than mars

00:01:53.500 which seems a lot closer i guess it's closer and it might well be easier as well so that makes

00:01:59.820 perfect sense but even if it is you know old technology the people saying it's from technology

00:02:05.300 from the 70s it still looks cool and it did the job so yes if they're doing that that's still good

00:02:12.420 so um it's the first cruise lunar mission since 1972 which is massive you know first time in

00:02:22.460 in many people's lifetimes that we've been sending people to the moon and they're going to spend 10

00:02:27.660 days um in their journey around the moon because they're going all the way around it unlike the

00:02:33.180 you know original expeditions to the moon and they're going to travel about 5 000 miles from

00:02:39.340 the moon's surface so they're not even necessarily going into low orbit or it could be you know i

00:02:45.900 don't know how to even perceive the scale but i imagine they're just sort of whizzing around and

00:02:50.060 and coming back collecting data but this will be the first um time human beings have gone that far

00:02:56.880 into space in all of human history you mean got to the moon for the first time no the other one's

00:03:02.900 just faking it how how can we seriously still be arguing that it's with 2026 technology they're

00:03:10.200 still just going up and going around but 70 years ago oh yeah we could just land on it that's no

00:03:14.860 problem well i think they're trying to fine tune a more permanent situation for the first time

00:03:20.660 that's what they're doing i didn't know dan was also a truther it's two truthers here

00:03:25.320 oh have we got another one on the panel oh normally they they gang up on me we can gang

00:03:31.340 up on josh this time the only thing is i i can never tell if i'm joking like i might be i'm not

00:03:35.900 sure but i'm basically on your side yeah you see i believe in the greatness of western civilization

00:03:41.460 you two perhaps not but i think you believe in america well if you believe if that's your

00:03:46.700 argument if they give it to england we'd do it in minutes if that's if that's why not why not

00:03:52.340 claim they went in the 1920s well they didn't well exactly that's the point lucky wasn't it

00:03:59.740 how they had to beat russia and they just totally did well yes whatever your ridiculous opinions are

00:04:04.960 we're talking about one that actually definitely did happen even in your opinion yes um so here's

00:04:11.100 video of actually launching and obviously it's very cool i'm going to mute it um just because

00:04:17.340 it's going to be loud um do you know who did the best stream on this it was sam's encouraging it

00:04:23.460 was samson he did he did a um a watch party thing for the launch where he was like basically

00:04:29.820 simultaneously saying oh it's really good and ragging on nasa's frame rate for the images

00:04:35.580 Yeah, I've seen a lot of that, to be fair.

00:04:37.760 But, you know, we need to see more of this.

00:04:40.780 This is good.

00:04:41.540 Yes.

00:04:42.580 See, even Dan's on side.

00:04:44.740 Because I'm on side.

00:04:45.740 Going to the moon is awesome.

00:04:47.360 Thank you.

00:04:48.260 There we go.

00:04:48.940 It's not so difficult after.

00:04:50.140 It's a great ambition, yeah.

00:04:54.100 I've set myself up for failure, yeah.

00:04:56.460 It's still funny.

00:04:58.140 But do you know what else is pushing the frontiers of humanity?

00:05:02.280 Lotus Eater's live event that has yet to happen.

00:05:05.740 If you want to go along, it is the 11th of April.

00:05:08.320 I think tickets are still available.

00:05:10.460 And, yes, it will be fun.

00:05:12.500 And so come along.

00:05:14.100 You get to meet us.

00:05:15.520 You get to have a good time.

00:05:16.640 You get to meet people in the audience.

00:05:18.200 Could change your life.

00:05:19.320 Who knows?

00:05:19.800 Probably not.

00:05:20.840 But be there or I will judge you.

00:05:23.720 And if three of us can get to the moon, 300 of you can get to Swindon.

00:05:27.360 So no excuses.

00:05:27.920 That's true.

00:05:28.700 Although I'd rather go to the moon, to be honest.

00:05:31.580 There's more intelligent life up there.

00:05:33.420 um anyway there was another video here that i thought was quite impressive that someone took

00:05:38.240 from an aeroplane um going past which you'd think they let planes just fly past i was just about to

00:05:45.460 say that that if i were in an aeroplane and an actual you know space shuttle or a rocket was

00:05:51.820 going past me i'd be a little bit worried there'd be a non-zero chance yeah you know there could be

00:05:56.400 an accident they didn't stop the footage there did they i'd want to see that all the way i know

00:06:01.100 I know it's kind of annoying

00:06:02.820 but it's fine, there's more

00:06:04.580 here's another one

00:06:07.600 that carries on a little bit further

00:06:09.080 when it was tilting its trajectory

00:06:11.620 this is a different plane

00:06:12.860 there you go

00:06:14.940 you know, people are probably going to be

00:06:17.560 in the comments like, it's just

00:06:18.760 a chemtrail in the sky

00:06:21.020 doesn't mean anything

00:06:23.000 but

00:06:24.660 if you're that way inclined

00:06:27.840 this is undeniably cool

00:06:29.660 you can't say that's not cool can you even the deltas um and then i was sent some of these

00:06:45.100 pictures by samson um and i just was impressed by them i wanted to include them do nasa second

00:06:51.820 stages land again afterwards like elons do i don't think so i think they fall into the ocean

00:06:57.460 but i'm not entirely sure on that i'm no space expert i was just there like this is cool

00:07:02.300 i want to talk about it um but there are some political aspects to it as well um so i wanted

00:07:10.200 to talk a little bit about their route and what they'll be up to so that um i'm going to steal

00:07:14.460 this graphic from abc um which is you know less than they deserve but you can see here the the

00:07:22.120 sort of figure eight route that they're going to take. And at the minute, I think they're

00:07:27.060 accelerating to escape the velocity, um, that's sort of around earth here. So they're in that

00:07:34.740 sort of stage. So that's day two. And then on days, was that something Samson?

00:07:42.180 That's the one. And then days three to five of the mission, they'll be adjusting the approach

00:07:48.100 to the moon um and when they're sort of at that point they're going to be about um a quarter of

00:07:54.660 a million miles away from the earth which is kind of crazy to think and then day six to seven they're

00:08:00.280 going to begin their approach back to earth and then day 10 they're going to get ready for re-entry

00:08:04.400 and then all things going to plan they're going to land off the coast of um california so in the

00:08:10.700 ocean this one where they sent women the sky news was whining about how it was uh it was all white

00:08:17.420 men last time well there was a black guy and a woman this time and a canadian does that bother

00:08:23.100 the dei aspect well i think going to space is such a risk that you know why wasn't one of them

00:08:33.720 in a wheelchair that's also true i mean they're really missing out on something there um newer

00:08:40.000 i want a neurodivergent astronaut as well i assume they all are really if they're any good

00:08:46.000 Yeah, that's a fair point.

00:08:47.380 So you can also go on NASA's website and you can see where it is relative to the Earth.

00:08:54.080 And here it is at the minute.

00:08:55.880 You can scroll around and have a look at where it is.

00:08:59.340 Obviously, this is an animation.

00:09:00.920 This is not a video.

00:09:02.660 But it gives you a rough idea of where it is.

00:09:05.160 So if you wanted to follow it along, that's how you do it.

00:09:07.840 but they also placed a micro SD card filled with what was it 5.6 million people basically people

00:09:19.540 who submitted their names online inside of this cuddly toy thing and so 5.6 million people are

00:09:28.440 going to have their names technically speaking whiz around the moon I don't really know it's on

00:09:34.620 an sd card so it sort of spoils it if it were like carved on the rocket or something that would

00:09:39.860 be much cooler but if it's not physically there it's just in in the should have crowdfunded it

00:09:45.200 because people would have paid to have their name called i mean it might impact the hull integrity

00:09:49.740 the aerodynamics or something i don't know i imagine nasa's probably not taking the chance

00:09:54.360 to be honest um what else was there um oh yes lots of people were comparing spacex

00:10:01.080 um launches to nasa launches and how much better the spacex ones look in terms of camera quality

00:10:07.840 and i did notice this as well actually that the spacex ones do look significantly better

00:10:14.060 which is a shame really um but that's not the only thing people were comparing as well

00:10:22.660 people were comparing the cockpits between the nasa one and the spacex one i feel like the spacex

00:10:29.100 one looks a lot more sci-fi yes it's sort of it reminds me of the sort of you know the the 60s

00:10:37.080 and 70s period more with the orange suits and and that sort of thing um but i don't know

00:10:43.760 a jail vibe to it than that it does you're not saying that because of the demographics of some

00:10:49.880 of the people no i wasn't that long tube worries me as well that's like the kind of thing they put

00:10:53.600 together last minute on apollo 13 with a sock i mean you don't start out with that thing that's

00:10:58.960 the thing you build hastily in space so you don't die as long as it's not filled with you know pure

00:11:04.200 oxygen um oh yes they're also given iphones as well for some reason i wasn't entirely able to

00:11:11.880 find out why i think they were like data pads or something the spacex guys get android i hope so

00:11:18.100 more advanced they were treating them with the correct amount of disrespect by just throwing

00:11:21.940 them around in space which you know that's actually quite helpful i sort of wanted zero

00:11:26.780 gravity uh just passing stuff about um but the only real problem that i was able to find out

00:11:33.400 about the launch was that for the first seven hours of the flight their toilet was broken

00:11:38.880 and uh that's one thing that you really don't want to break you said there was a canadian on

00:11:44.400 board was it was an indian canadian by any chance there's a canadian canadian okay

00:11:48.340 um i just had a theory then but if you spent 10 days trapped in space

00:11:53.820 yeah my goodness I'd be going out the airlock in a heartbeat but um yes it says unlike the

00:12:00.660 Apollo astronauts who used waste collection bags in the 60s and 70s the Artemis 2 crew

00:12:04.920 had access to a fully functioning toilet equipped with a funnel a seat and an airflow system to

00:12:10.140 reduce odors that's nice at least if the toilet couldn't be fixed the crew would have to collect

00:12:15.420 urine in bags and feces in containers with odor filters but thankfully I think the problem was

00:12:21.460 solved by about midnight scroll down let's see it let's see the yeah it doesn't look like a

00:12:27.860 bathroom that i would recognize what are the post-it notes on the wall i don't know like so

00:12:33.180 and so is a slag i mean you're gonna work out there's only three of you they're writing phone

00:12:37.020 numbers on there it's about the same as one of those off-grid people you know those people want

00:12:40.160 to compost everything this is like one of those standard green voter toilet i think it's interesting

00:12:45.980 as well they've got lots of foam up on the sides there so presumably i thought it was 70s wood

00:12:50.800 panelling yes just really fluorescent orange panelling but um you'd think that if you're

00:12:57.880 sat on the toilet and you you have to have foam on the walls that if you're flying around that

00:13:02.260 much surely what do you think the notes say like don't open door to space and stuff like that like

00:13:08.580 key reminders you know what i mean space is dangerous and um i'm sorry i'm not taking this

00:13:15.260 seriously enough josh i know it's a serious important moment that's okay um i thought this

00:13:20.160 quote was quite cool from the commander of the artemis 2 mission while spacewalking i realized

00:13:26.040 something i used to think i was scared of heights but now i know i was just scared of gravity

00:13:30.300 and then i'm not sure if this is actually him or not um i don't recognize the video

00:13:35.320 but it's someone floating over space and i thought that that's kind of a cool i mean gravity is

00:13:41.080 acting on him at that point i mean technically yes it's just his full momentum equals the gravity

00:13:46.380 that he's experiencing.

00:13:48.340 Well, he's following the same trajectory as the ship

00:13:50.600 rather than being pulled down.

00:13:53.900 Actually, Mr. Commander of Space.

00:13:55.640 I'm not going to give NASA lectures on orbital mechanics.

00:14:00.620 Also, people from the International Space Station

00:14:03.140 who are technically in space were able to watch the launch

00:14:06.940 and send their congratulations all through the internet,

00:14:13.760 which I found quite surprising.

00:14:14.960 that they can sit there and watch this on a laptop

00:14:16.740 and then potentially see it whiz past.

00:14:21.520 Is one of those the woman that went mental

00:14:23.600 and started smashing it up, or is she out now?

00:14:25.740 I think she's probably out now, to be honest.

00:14:28.060 I missed that.

00:14:29.680 One of the women on the International Space Station

00:14:31.680 just went crazy and started trying to smash a hole in the window

00:14:34.060 with a hammer.

00:14:35.840 Yeah.

00:14:37.060 You're not surprised.

00:14:38.320 That's why I like doing segments with Nick.

00:14:39.660 That's what I suspected, when you put them in space.

00:14:42.320 Who needs a HAL 9000?

00:14:44.960 you've got a woman

00:14:45.940 we've just got a woman

00:14:47.240 I just told them

00:14:49.560 yep that checks out

00:14:50.740 there's no reaction

00:14:51.940 I'm afraid I can't do that

00:14:55.000 that's too passive aggressive

00:14:56.140 now

00:14:56.460 also

00:14:57.960 lots of people

00:14:58.800 were celebrating it

00:14:59.960 here's

00:15:01.080 Lincoln Monument

00:15:03.360 Washington Memorial

00:15:04.800 yes

00:15:05.460 isn't the Lincoln

00:15:08.180 I always get confused

00:15:09.240 isn't the Lincoln chap

00:15:10.400 at the bottom

00:15:10.920 I don't know

00:15:12.020 I've never been

00:15:14.340 That is quite cool though actually

00:15:16.120 I thought it was a good tribute

00:15:18.740 and

00:15:19.480 what else is there?

00:15:21.740 Oh yes, I can't play this one

00:15:23.900 because there's rude words

00:15:26.520 Not on the Lotus Eaters

00:15:28.520 we can't have that

00:15:29.360 I have a flawless record on the Lotus Eaters

00:15:32.660 from start to the current day

00:15:35.280 You've never said a naughty word on the Lotus Eaters

00:15:37.060 The level of professionalism

00:15:39.380 You mission unlocked

00:15:40.280 I think I've been pretty careful

00:15:42.920 I haven't done as many as you

00:15:44.020 um obviously and you're in your second career with a lot of years so um but yeah well done

00:15:50.140 years um but yes a young kid was talking to a cnn reporter live and they asked um i'm not going to

00:15:59.860 play it why do you want to be here why do you love being part of history and the kid replied

00:16:05.600 we're going back to the effing moon that's why oh the naughty word is back yes i love the way

00:16:12.540 they ask this kid thinking he's young enough he's not going to swear on tv also like how he's got

00:16:17.860 like a nasa hat and a gopro like he's going into the actual launch himself lovely i love the autism

00:16:23.860 i don't have this kind of autism i have a different kinds and i didn't none this space

00:16:27.520 stuff registers with me but as you know many people i know blokes my age who fill in the

00:16:32.640 little paint the little um models you know i mean of the ships if you're really the ships you can

00:16:38.820 see how much i don't get it if you're really a nerd you play kerbal space program right i've

00:16:44.620 seen people play it but i've never done it real nerds are people following that animation of where

00:16:48.400 it is josh they're the real nerds i just know where it is all right i respect it it's just a

00:16:53.420 different kind of autism that's all i'm not even i'm not even on the spectrum at all

00:16:57.780 i feel uh attacked no it's fine if it wasn't for autism i wouldn't be here i don't think

00:17:04.840 um i i did find this interesting from matt walsh who's saying that the reason it's taken so long

00:17:10.360 to get back to the moon is because of welfare and immigration and if we didn't have welfare

00:17:14.340 and immigration they could do a lot more cool things like sending people to the moon

00:17:18.200 which i think is is partly true i also think that they've also been doing other things

00:17:25.440 and there are lots of cool things that we've seen like lots of cool images from space from

00:17:31.040 the hubble um and the james webb space telescope of various phenomena and things that we've been

00:17:37.880 able to study and figure out things about space like this sort of thing coming from space is cool

00:17:43.900 um it seems to be spending their money on military equipment if trump's true

00:17:47.400 not lying and they've got this discombobulator that you know this advanced military equipment

00:17:52.080 so they've carried on doing that but i take matt walsh's point broadly it's hard to imagine a

00:17:57.100 culture sort of led and held down by endless pointless immigration and endless wealth i mean

00:18:03.680 our welfare our benefits bill is what is more than income taxes we could have like seven of these

00:18:09.360 for our welfare year spending so it's very hard to imagine that culture that's obsessed with dei

00:18:13.600 and equality and flattening everything without everyone's the same to also have the aspiration

00:18:17.580 to go to space it's a very opposite mindset isn't it yeah like some people might die but we'll get

00:18:22.840 on the moon which was the exact actually loads of us knots died and it's like that's the exact

00:18:27.880 opposite mindset yeah well we instead spend probably an equivalent amount in one day of

00:18:33.660 nhs spending although we do actually have um launch pads and things we do have part of the

00:18:39.760 european space program i think it's down in cornwall um but i did see two things that annoyed

00:18:45.400 me um that i wanted to talk about um on the crew what on the crew on the crew yeah what do you

00:18:53.640 mean i thought you're going to be racist and sexist for a moment then i just thought i was

00:18:56.560 about to caution you no for once i'm not going to be okay um no i was annoyed by this people

00:19:02.280 complaining that the taxpayer funded a billion dollar firework show as it was put and this

00:19:08.960 really annoyed me because it's it's just such ludditism like i'm very opposed to government

00:19:14.640 spending generally speaking but if i were to have money spent on stuff the space program would be

00:19:22.480 probably number one like it is obviously an unequivocal good for humanity to push our frontiers

00:19:29.320 like america has spent like eight trillion at this point on on trying to equalize outcome

00:19:34.880 across different groups yeah you can spend a hundred billion on going to the bloody moon

00:19:40.260 I mean, three of these launches could be equivalent to one Iran conflict anyway.

00:19:47.380 Well, there's that.

00:19:48.200 But also you could stop the equality of outcome stuff.

00:19:51.880 That tweet is perfectly exactly what I was just saying.

00:19:54.000 You always get these people, what's the point of this?

00:19:56.240 We could be doing more welfare stuff.

00:19:58.300 And that's the mentality because you have to be completely opposite.

00:20:01.600 You have to have that kind of aspirational mentality

00:20:03.320 and you have to spend some money on it.

00:20:04.840 But yeah, they don't see the point.

00:20:06.120 They're not great men of history, are they?

00:20:07.500 They're to be ignored.

00:20:09.460 Yes.

00:20:10.260 I can't make a critique of it, which I did at Chronicles with Lucas,

00:20:13.240 so I don't want to be inconsistent.

00:20:14.160 We talked about C.S. Lewis.

00:20:15.380 He has his sci-fi trilogy, and he sort of makes the case

00:20:17.740 of what is the point of all this endless space exploration?

00:20:19.920 Really, it's your eternal soul that matters.

00:20:22.100 That's a different, if that was the argument they're making,

00:20:24.780 they're clearly not making that argument.

00:20:26.260 They're just saying, oh, we could be spending it on Gibbs.

00:20:28.600 That's what they're saying, right?

00:20:30.480 We could be saving.

00:20:31.180 Drag us all down.

00:20:32.800 Well, it was coming from libertarian types,

00:20:34.760 and I was just like, you're stupid.

00:20:36.100 Really? That's strange.

00:20:37.460 If you want government to do anything, surely,

00:20:40.260 you know space the military these sorts of things you need to be putting money down

00:20:46.440 it seems quite a libertarian thing to me i mean musk is obsessed with he's a libertarian type

00:20:50.060 isn't he seems instinctively to me quite a libertarian type of thing what rockets or more

00:20:55.700 yeah i don't know i mean i suppose not because it involves massive government spending

00:20:58.560 so maybe i'm wrong it's a bit aspirational i like the aspirational stuff well yeah i think that it's

00:21:04.140 it's the last frontier to be explored isn't it we don't really have too much of the world to

00:21:08.720 explore other than some remote jungles and the bottom of the ocean but you know other than some

00:21:13.480 fish i've just figured out something what's that because people keep saying to us how are you going

00:21:18.080 to do re-migration if no country will take them back i've just sent them to the moon yes yeah

00:21:23.440 just what i mean is you ruin space then immediately well space is quite some people see space as the

00:21:28.160 place to get away like elijah and they want to get away from all that yeah on their special planet

00:21:32.140 where everyone's like ultra rich you're sort of saying the opposite space could become the dumping

00:21:36.740 ground well it already sort of is isn't there so many um satellites around that they have to clear

00:21:41.940 them out because there's there's so much rubbish up there so if we send you know fly tippers up

00:21:46.860 there it's going to be even worse they go up there there's gonna be crisp packets everywhere and you

00:21:51.580 know pizza boxes and then the final thing that i found annoying was people you know digging up this

00:21:57.540 old chestnut um not naming any names on the panel um but here's someone saying they want you to

00:22:04.160 believe this aluminium foil wrapped hunk of junk went to the moon and back the amount of fluoride

00:22:08.640 in the brain to swallow this is staggering well i mean that is a good point though that is legitimately

00:22:13.600 not a good a good point so so seriously we we're doing it now and we're if if we really went in

00:22:21.280 the bloody 50s and 60s we would just casually be setting up our third lunar city by now i

00:22:27.900 surely this knocks on the head any notion that we went like 60 70 years ago

00:22:34.160 No, not at all.

00:22:36.140 Why? Because the TV said so?

00:22:38.120 Not because the TV said so,

00:22:39.540 because there's plenty of evidence to suggest we did go.

00:22:43.000 Such as on the TV?

00:22:44.720 Well, not just the TV.

00:22:46.620 There's lots of other things,

00:22:47.800 like they've got rocks from the moon

00:22:49.880 that are definitely rocks from the moon.

00:22:51.700 Can we have a poll, Samson?

00:22:54.280 Did we go to the moon in the 60s?

00:22:56.780 Or whenever it was, you know, in the older days?

00:23:00.920 We see what the fine people say.

00:23:03.140 you're just jealous because they used all the tinfoil on on the the spacecraft rather than on

00:23:07.840 hats what about the theory josh that we did go but the little film they shot they lost the real

00:23:13.640 film or something they couldn't do it there's some theory like that so that the film is fake

00:23:16.740 even though we did go no no i at least i think so there's also people compromise i'm offering

00:23:22.220 a moderate compromise he won't take it there are also people that we didn't go i revert to my

00:23:26.580 previous position people also say that stanley kubrick directed the moon landing but i don't

00:23:32.900 yeah just because he did 2001 a space odyssey too short for that there weren't enough takes

00:23:37.260 what's the film on the internet american moon i mean that i mean that just kind of nails it

00:23:42.920 it's a little documentary i think this is a bit controversial but if you don't believe in space

00:23:48.500 i even had people saying they don't believe in space itself and if you believe that the only

00:23:53.160 contribution you can have to human civilization is to be turned into mulch that's that's the only

00:23:58.120 that you're ever going to be able to do if you're that stupid you don't think you can send stuff to

00:24:03.100 space clearly space does exist but yeah exactly that that level of like i don't even believe in

00:24:08.880 space you're just worthless i'm sorry it's literally up there you just need to look up

00:24:15.100 when it's dark and you see it lewis wanted to call it the heavens because he thought space was

00:24:19.780 just sort of materialist and reductionist so as long as we can if we could rename it i accept

00:24:25.160 it's there i'm not one of those guys that you want to mulch well i try to cheer you all up but

00:24:30.940 instead i'm just very disappointed bye bye we were partly doing it just to annoy you i know you so

00:24:36.220 i was playing along a little bit i just don't know if that's better or worse um is it me now

00:24:43.080 yeah i've got some rumble rants oh rumble rants first oh smacking what if they all say we didn't

00:24:48.460 go i'm gonna cry live on camera a drunk changeling says america it just moved americans are the

00:24:57.620 indigenous people of the moon okay i did see people claiming that america owns the moon

00:25:03.300 which is interesting as much as they own america right they kicked off the people who were there

00:25:07.060 and there was no one on the moon so they probably have more of a claim to the moon than they do to

00:25:10.140 america is that too lefty yes because they yes because they would be actually no because now

00:25:16.020 it's going to be like a third owned by the

00:25:17.960 Canadians. Well actually, who's going

00:25:20.020 on the second trip? I don't know.

00:25:22.540 It should be purely Americans

00:25:24.000 and that way they can say this is our native land.

00:25:28.080 This moon was promised to us. They'd be gutted if they got there

00:25:30.020 and there's a load of like Indian, American

00:25:32.020 Indian wigwams. Not again!

00:25:34.720 Naboo or something.

00:25:35.820 The casino's up there already.

00:25:37.780 That's Random Name says, I wonder what the number of violent

00:25:39.880 outbursts will be on

00:25:41.480 Artemis considering the Q's demographics.

00:25:45.180 Dear, dear.

00:25:46.020 low-hanging paywall isn't it it is uh based ape uh we western men are truly incredible we have

00:25:51.920 nailed this task so well we can safely send women i can't say that and canadians into space great

00:25:59.100 achievement for western men however funny it was but you'll get me in trouble um that's random name

00:26:05.840 i agree with based ape um i i can't read that again um please stop fed posting especially for

00:26:14.300 one dollar if you're going to fed post it's ten dollars yeah at least give us a higher amount

00:26:22.080 uh don't bother dan you're talking to people who think think mars is a better prospect for

00:26:26.740 colonization than venus yeah that's true no oh yeah you believe that venus should be colonized

00:26:31.720 don't you i've got i've gone into great depth as to why isn't it very hot yeah on the surface

00:26:37.940 oh you go underground no you go above yes okay cloud cities okay there's so much atmospheric

00:26:45.760 pressure it's actually quite easy to float a city on on venus and then you get normal atmospheric

00:26:50.480 pressure well this sounds cool enough i'm on board yes um hewitt says it's a good job we like josh

00:26:57.080 as this segment is boring yeah because people think that we already went and therefore the

00:27:02.020 subject is boring so it's only exciting if you don't believe yeah for me it's fantastic we're

00:27:08.380 under the moon for the first time that's wonderful that's really amazing well i'm not used to

00:27:12.180 presenting positive things all right maybe i should just talk about someone stabbing someone

00:27:15.660 for the fifth time then you can all be miserable blackpilled by the response to his segment that

00:27:20.680 is harsh i thought it was a good segment thank you uh although i understand um johnny logo says

00:27:26.240 dan volunteering to travel to the moon to prove josh wrong yeah you need to do that i'm not going

00:27:30.760 i'm not going anywhere out there i like it here that's random name with two dollars

00:27:35.180 um and a provocation that's all i'm going to say no it's ten dollars for fed posting

00:27:40.680 they're not doing that for two that seems fair all right shall i do my bit no one ever says they

00:27:47.400 just sort of get weirdly silent i think you could work on that anyway pointedly look at you yeah

00:27:51.440 yeah i think it could be a better system but hey we use non-verbal cues would you prefer it to be

00:27:55.640 more sort of vocal you might evolve it after a few few more years i've done i've done live tv

00:28:00.440 remember so we need one of those clappers things like nick go um okay how do they do it on tv

00:28:05.640 well there's all sorts of cameras and things there's like you know there's also teams people

00:28:10.840 talking in your ear it's all very high tech that sounds quite schizophrenic working in environment

00:28:16.420 this is much better um and speaking of which you know what's even better is lotus seat is live on

00:28:22.660 the 11th of april at 7 p.m in swindon that's the only slight downside but it's gonna be a great

00:28:27.400 show you got dan josh even that sargon bloke from the internet even i might show up i know i'm the

00:28:33.280 most loved lotus eater so beau all of them i can't i've got to list everyone if i start that

00:28:37.840 you can see them on the picture so come to that april 11 people have said my uh i don't sound

00:28:43.020 enthusiastic when i'm selling this and i'm not good at it so that was my best attempt i think

00:28:47.180 i did a lot better there so come to that and now let's crack on with the old segment well

00:28:52.500 hopefully this one isn't dull but it will be quite dense this is why ethno-nationalism endures

00:28:58.300 westminster is still in denial and this comes from aris rusinos who's a smart guy smart cookie

00:29:03.500 and very interesting piece so the piece basically argues that ethno-nationalism and nationalism are

00:29:10.500 synonymous so i've been kind of so we take the term ethno-nationalism like politicians are scared

00:29:15.800 of it they're all telling us it's scary and bad everyone from shabana mahoud to nigel farage

00:29:19.740 And even I've been like, is it a good term? Is it useful? Does it sort of conjure up all sorts of dark things?

00:29:26.800 And should we just talk about our little island home and things like this?

00:29:29.940 And, you know, we have a claim to the nation.

00:29:32.340 But Roussainos here makes a case via Walker-Connor, who he's quoting, that actually it just is the normal term.

00:29:39.280 It is synonymous with nationalism virtually.

00:29:41.280 And it is kind of the norm and everything else is doomed to failure, pretty much, is a case made.

00:29:46.740 civic nationalism was just something that was invented to gut nationalism yes that is the case

00:29:54.040 made pretty much here that and so we'll go into it well it's it's basically like uh sorry to

00:29:59.400 interrupt um it's it's basically injecting a more modern american ethos not even a foundational

00:30:05.740 american ethos because i think they were a lot more anglo-centric back then than they were in

00:30:12.320 later times which i think is indisputable but that sort of attitude has been exported elsewhere

00:30:17.960 not necessarily by the united states itself but people just choosing to adopt that framing of you

00:30:23.860 know if you join our culture you can integrate no matter where in the world you come from

00:30:28.080 where actually um it doesn't work so much outside of the united states correct and he talks about

00:30:35.140 that later because they weren't there originally they couldn't have this as we discussed in the

00:30:39.120 last segment so yeah they are a unique case and it doesn't work to export their version um anyway

00:30:44.160 so you realize here on the work of this guy walker connor who is one of the many people uh matt goodwin

00:30:49.240 made up quotes about in his book uh the essence of a nation wrote the academic walker connor is

00:30:53.900 not the territory occupied but the people who occupy it etc and this is one that andy 12 said

00:30:57.840 was an ai hallucination from that's not really part of the segment i just thought it was important

00:31:01.780 to get it in just throw a dunk i prefer goodwin yeah i prefer to call him matt gpt bad loss

00:31:06.800 sorry you're right i didn't use his full name yes um but anyway who knows if that was made up or not

00:31:12.040 please not sue us matt but um some claim that if he did sue us he would get chat gpt to be the lawyer

00:31:18.820 and he would just get all the court proceedings wrong yeah i've asked chat gpt whether this was

00:31:23.340 the right course of action and it says yes yeah um back to the article though so politicians are

00:31:28.040 afraid of it as he points out so shabana mahoud said patriotism is turning into something small

00:31:31.840 of something like ethno-nationalism and she did say that and also Farage let's just remember he

00:31:38.500 also had something to say about it and this is important for the context we're about to discuss

00:31:42.220 he said it was a scary far-right thing unless we are able to provide a proper democratic antidote

00:31:48.980 to this then I fear that we will see a rise of a really worrying dangerous form of extreme right

00:31:57.900 ethno-nationalism and I think we're beginning over the last couple of weeks already to see

00:32:03.600 some specimens of it. Nobody, nobody over the last quarter of a century has done more

00:32:10.200 to defeat the genuine, intolerant, abhorrent, extreme far-right than me.

00:32:15.620 I'm sure you've seen that one before but it's in context it's interesting because

00:32:19.180 what we find is that his own fans, his own supporters, reform voters, just trying to find

00:32:27.680 it actually are more ethno-nationalists i can't find it but it says the shift is most pronounced

00:32:32.500 among people intending to vote for reform uk uh 59 of whom believe british identity is an ethnic

00:32:39.380 not civic concept seven in ten 71 of reform supporters think it's important to have british

00:32:44.000 ancestry to be truly british and as i've got a graph on this later but that basically says this

00:32:49.360 was a piece of uh research from the ippr who are a lefty think tank and they've put out a piece

00:32:56.820 basically which we'll look at maybe later we have time basically saying oh everyone's gone

00:33:00.640 ethno-nationalist and they're sort of scared and they're saying it's why it's terrible and bad

00:33:04.080 pretty much the entire reform voting bloc are ethno-nationalists and they don't realize that

00:33:09.340 Nigel Farage is going to betray them while civic nationalism is what Farage is doing which is

00:33:14.320 getting Boris Wavers to be his candidates yeah so it's very revealing as well that he's proud that

00:33:20.780 he's been containment like it if you're actually serious about pushing politics towards the right

00:33:26.900 you don't punch right you don't police your radicals because the existence of radicals

00:33:32.580 makes you look more reasonable by um comparison if nothing else so even from his own perspective

00:33:38.840 it's bad strategically and the fact that he's so concerned about it shows that he's willing to

00:33:43.760 uh basically let the side down for his own personal gain yeah there's a bit about reform

00:33:50.080 by the way about reform supporters who seven in ten think it's important to have british ancestry

00:33:54.160 and um up here they just talk about the general change so exclusive new you go of polling for

00:34:00.320 ippr finds that the majority still think 51 percent still see britishness as something based on

00:34:06.300 uh that people can become that seems oh despite growing that seems like a dodgy sense maybe i'm

00:34:12.640 too tired despite a growing share 36 of the public who believe that being truly british is based on

00:34:16.960 birth oh yeah something based on that people can become that can't be right anyway it's a

00:34:21.380 sivnat versus ethno argument but the ethno is growing because it's up to 36 percent and only

00:34:25.520 a slight majority for the so-called sivnat it's enough to win the the argument to be honest yeah

00:34:29.820 36 so go back to this article he talked about this walker connor guy and he points out that for him

00:34:35.860 all nationalism was at heart ethno nationalism deriving from essentially emotional loyalties to

00:34:41.420 the nation itself a fundamentally ethnic category as he puts it nation connotes a group of people

00:34:46.100 who believe they are ancestry-related.

00:34:48.300 Nationalism connotes identification with

00:34:49.960 and loyalty to one's nation as just defined.

00:34:52.620 So he's saying they were always synonymous.

00:34:56.000 But he does make a difference between ethno-nationalism

00:34:58.760 and nationalism and patriotism.

00:35:01.040 And he says patriotism is the other thing.

00:35:02.800 That's the belief that you side with the state

00:35:05.340 rather than the people and the nation.

00:35:07.800 He says what they've tried to do is smuggle in.

00:35:10.900 They've tried to use patriotism,

00:35:13.820 and they've tried to use the energy of nationalism,

00:35:15.760 sorry which really means ethno-nationalism to promote patriotism which means the love of the

00:35:20.100 state and loyalty to the state loyalty to keir starmer yes and he says it's basically what the

00:35:24.460 soviet union did and he says they're trying to harness that energy but they're harnessing

00:35:27.920 something for a very different end and they're two different things this is very true and in fact

00:35:32.220 um this is what stalin realized in the war effort that he needed to bring back both um nationalism

00:35:37.820 and actually the church um to get people really mobilized and and comfortable with the war effort

00:35:45.060 And also another thing that I thought is really good about Conner's perspective, because I've read this article yesterday, because I was actually sent it by the guy who wrote it. And yeah, one of the interesting things is that Walker Conner's perspective was tested by him predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union and the nature of it.

00:36:07.620 And he basically, I'm sorry if I'm stealing your thunder here a little bit, but he correctly predicted the nature of the fall of the Soviet Union before it happened using his understanding of nationalism and ethno-nationalism.

00:36:19.240 And when you think about it, the states that came out of the Soviet Union, most of which were formed along ethnic lines, weren't they?

00:36:27.460 although there are some boundaries that aren't necessarily as neat as others but mostly it was

00:36:33.860 certain ethnicities forming their own nations among the sort of satellite nations yeah exactly

00:36:40.300 the nightmare here is finding my quotes amongst the article while also uh reading but i'll just

00:36:44.240 read them from here so um yeah i've talked about how nationalism ethno-nationalism are to connor

00:36:48.820 the same thing so that's and it's it was a value-free analysis by the way from this guy

00:36:54.340 economy wasn't even one thing it mentions in the article he didn't therefore say do anything with

00:36:58.100 this he just said i'm just observing this is how it is and so it may not it seemed like he was

00:37:02.820 probably not even on the side that was particularly like that he was just saying this is my these are

00:37:07.960 my findings um one quite interesting part as well is he says modernity has locked nations into

00:37:13.840 these sort of solid forms rather than being to elton naturally adapt so he says his argument

00:37:19.080 was that the age of nationalism which dawned with modernity was a historical watershed

00:37:22.500 setting us apart from all that came before before modernity nations could die or meld into each

00:37:27.300 other or assume new identities after the age of nationalism the tendency is for nations to be set

00:37:31.560 into permanent immovable forms and for sub-state groups which had not acquired national identities

00:37:36.080 to adopt them so he's saying we could more easily before we had these big solid nations we could

00:37:40.600 more easily adapt to change but he's saying that a modern thing makes that actually harder to do

00:37:45.720 um and hopefully we can i can't find any of this but anyway we're giving the don't worry about

00:37:52.100 finding it on screen okay we've got this uh misleading american analogy as you pointed out

00:37:57.920 earlier josh um the american model of assimilation was then was until very recently one in which

00:38:03.040 immigrants were essentially compelled to adopt a fictive anglo-saxon political identity that of

00:38:07.580 the starts folk or dominant leading ethnic group to whom the state belongs so yeah as you say they

00:38:12.440 they didn't have this ethnic group that were just naturally part of the nation but they adopted

00:38:16.540 the anglo-saxon model he points out this funny thing of uh that guy scalier going saying he went

00:38:21.900 back to england even though he's 100 italian ancestry and saying he was back home but really

00:38:26.140 that was a fiction for america he's it says in this although of course it you could argue it was

00:38:31.120 based on the on essentially english founding fathers and yeah i think he felt that way because

00:38:36.440 he was you know a supreme court justice and a lot of their law is based on you know english

00:38:42.980 liberalism and an english common law and so he spent his whole life studying um the precedence

00:38:49.540 set by england basically so it makes sense that he sort of feels some affinity even though he's

00:38:55.880 italian i get it yeah but it's different as you said to europe and to to britain because america

00:39:02.080 which is just not a useful example.

00:39:05.220 There's quite a lot more about that.

00:39:07.020 Maybe we can skip some of that.

00:39:10.640 So there's another interesting bit from the Italian sociologist,

00:39:14.720 a guy called Daniel Conversi, that says,

00:39:16.500 By failing to take ethno-nationalisms seriously,

00:39:18.940 by misapprehending its meaning and by relegating it to a distant, shameful past,

00:39:22.740 they've created a political project in direct opposition

00:39:24.920 to the most powerful force in modern history,

00:39:26.960 one that brought down each of the great European empires in turn.

00:39:30.060 it's remarkable that the british state can have unlearned this clearly apparent truth for as

00:39:34.120 connor observes of british britain's imperial collapse the basic cause of the disintegration

00:39:38.280 of empire was the refusal of people to accept political rule by those deemed aliens so it's

00:39:44.480 quite ironic that we having had an empire haven't learned this this lesson and he points out that

00:39:49.700 once britain left africa they kicked out a load of asians that they didn't want there it's the

00:39:55.680 Indian administrators, I think, of the empire in Africa. There's quite a few of them. Still quite

00:40:01.420 a few in South Africa to this day. So he just points out, here we go, citing the example of

00:40:07.120 the East African Asians ejected after the end of British rule. Connor notes that the benign

00:40:10.820 tolerance towards the Asian migrant community did not survive the British withdrawal from East

00:40:14.620 Africa. So he's like, if anyone should know this, it should be us, that the ethno-nationalism trumps

00:40:19.220 these imperial identities, which is sort of somewhat fictitious. Now, it's quite an interesting

00:40:24.540 part about legitimacy of the state so some people are saying that um that won't this be a problem

00:40:30.000 because you'll lose legitimacy but it points out the state can limp on without legitimacy

00:40:33.640 but this becomes a problem when you want to actually anyone to sacrifice anything such as

00:40:39.200 with military recruitment so it says here connor observes all the state requires to survive his

00:40:43.740 passivity in which a melange of fear habit inertia apoliticalness political and cultural isolation

00:40:49.360 disorganization staves off immediate collapse without inspiring loyalty or affection only

00:40:54.520 passivity not legitimacy is essential to the everyday humdrum functioning of a society but

00:40:59.460 if a state requires more than passivity if it hopes to invoke the symbols of the state as a means of

00:41:03.960 gaining positive cooperation and sacrifice legitimacy will be sorely missed so it's basically

00:41:08.120 saying if you go along ignoring the sort of ethnos and the ethnic basis of the of the nation

00:41:13.240 you'll suddenly find although things kind of limp on and can vaguely function if you want people to

00:41:17.740 go into the military for example anything that involves sacrifice you call upon that you find

00:41:21.960 it's gone because those people have withdrawn consent well it's exactly the situation we find

00:41:26.220 ourselves in you know modern britain is the perfect evidence for that idea yeah and there's

00:41:33.460 an interesting extra thing here some people talk about the next election is uh the last election

00:41:40.080 because we're at this demographic tipping point and all last chance and all this kind of thing

00:41:43.440 what's quite interesting is you don't necessarily need according to o'leary who was a student of

00:41:48.180 connor you don't necessarily need actually an absolute majority so he says um he says a stable

00:41:54.540 democratic majoritarian federation must have a start spoke and national or ethnic people who

00:41:59.440 are demographically and electorally dominant though not necessarily an absolute majority

00:42:03.540 of the population and who must be the co-founders of the federation that's quite interesting i mean

00:42:08.080 that's quite interesting because you sort of worry that oh you know if if native brits become the

00:42:12.760 minority it's over not necessarily as long as they are still a sort of political dominant force

00:42:17.920 that seems to be the key rather than the like 51 or whatever it is he's talking about there

00:42:21.780 so he's saying it doesn't necessarily have to be an absolute majority but they do need to be

00:42:25.000 setting the tone electorally and i mean there is a demographic element i don't know what the

00:42:29.360 number is when he says it doesn't have to be an absolute majority in my opinion as long as

00:42:34.400 you know there's one englishman still breathing on these islands it's not over and also you know

00:42:40.520 the nation in which you know famous the things like Rourke's Drift where we're outnumbered

00:42:46.580 significantly and still win the day I think that we should have a bit more self-confidence in

00:42:51.740 ourselves and of course we should avoid becoming a minority in our own country however if it does

00:42:57.460 happen the fight still isn't over I think that people should have the courage of their convictions

00:43:01.900 to to still carry on pushing for our people's survival yeah there's an interesting bit as well

00:43:08.820 he's talking about how we have things like scottish nationalism emerging and you need this

00:43:14.240 dominant group or the whole thing collapses so there's an interesting quote we know from the

00:43:17.540 comparative study of nationalism that when the two loyalties are perceived as being

00:43:21.220 irreconcilable conflict that is to say when people feel they must choose between them

00:43:26.180 nationalism customarily proves them more potent so he's saying if you set it against a civic

00:43:31.520 national identity the ethnic one which is sonomous here with nationalism will win i do sometimes

00:43:37.420 wonder because British people seem so brainwashed by this British values thing

00:43:41.680 that I do wonder but he's saying here that's the quote I just gave anyway

00:43:45.940 that nationalism customarily proves the more potent so don't try and beat it

00:43:50.500 with this civic national thing because you won't win ultimately. I think that

00:43:53.180 it's actually quite easy to shake people out of the the civic nationalist

00:43:56.740 spell. Obviously there are true believers that are more difficult but just

00:44:02.140 pointing out that having ancestry to certain lands makes perfect sense

00:44:06.700 because you know you can ask them do you why is colonialism bad specifically and they're like well

00:44:12.940 they have a claim over the land and you're taking them over and it's like okay so why is it bad in

00:44:18.000 britain then the the natives are being marginalized and then they're like oh right oh yeah okay

00:44:22.220 but then they claim there's no indigenous people here and because it's something to do with power

00:44:25.840 but usually that's quite left-wing people most normal people or the un most normal people won't

00:44:32.280 necessarily jump to that conclusion and say that you know my ancestors don't exist because that's

00:44:37.100 a very unusual thing to say and you've got to be quite ideological to say it yeah and he points

00:44:42.840 out that katie lamb when she's when she suggested for the purposes of cultural coherence we need to

00:44:47.120 ditch the boris wave this is really what she was referring to and that the ippr are absolutely

00:44:52.200 freaked out by this and we could have a quick look if we've got time at this which is this

00:44:56.460 IPPR study or survey called Reclaiming Britain, the Nation Against Ethno-Nationalism. And they

00:45:02.640 are absolutely terrified. So, and of course, this is their framing, this is lefty framing. Let's

00:45:06.800 have a look at their frame. They say last summer, after the most widespread racist rioting since

00:45:10.560 1919, aka people protesting children being killed, IPPR wrote it was a testament to progress that

00:45:17.640 deporting black and brown people living in Britain, the response to those past riots was no longer a

00:45:22.260 policy option 18 months later that looks naive so they admit that they've been naive and they say

00:45:28.060 we've seen an alarming turn on the right towards policies of mass deportation and arison the police

00:45:33.940 was going it's they actually genuinely think it's alarming he can't believe they find this alarming

00:45:38.160 they claim that it's always i haven't seen this necessarily but yeah reform definitely talked

00:45:42.760 about deporting 600 000 apparently conservatives talked about 750 000 i do remember that now

00:45:47.060 actually so it can't be that extreme if the tories are saying it but this whole piece is these lefties

00:45:52.140 being absolutely stunned by what has been the least mass deportations is not what they need

00:45:57.500 to be scared of mass deportations are the gentle option right yeah well as i see it if a right-wing

00:46:04.240 party doesn't win in 2029 it puts us on a trajectory that you know violent ethnic conflict

00:46:11.980 is inevitable and i'm not saying that's a good thing i'm saying i want it to be solved politically

00:46:15.560 well it's already happening it's just it's happening in one direction it's happening but

00:46:19.280 I'm saying as in like it's going to be widespread,

00:46:22.500 maybe across the country,

00:46:23.600 far exceeding the extent of the Southport riots.

00:46:26.600 I mean, what caused Lebanon to really kick off

00:46:30.160 is the Muslims had been basically doing all the things

00:46:33.700 that is happening to the white British over here now.

00:46:36.880 They'd been doing that to the Christians for years.

00:46:39.160 And then one day the Christians had enough

00:46:41.040 and that's when the Lebanese war kicked off.

00:46:44.280 Yeah, what's worrying, especially reading that last piece,

00:46:47.020 is you could easily end up,

00:46:48.720 people talk about an islamic takeover it seems more likely you end up with a centralized government

00:46:51.780 that's completely ineffective basically no legitimacy which just limps on as it described

00:46:56.500 with sort of pockets of violence and sectarianism that seems incredibly likely but um this was an

00:47:01.800 interesting quote a view of the national community defined in ethnic terms and society as a hierarchy

00:47:05.940 stirring fear anxiety and anger in people of all backgrounds i'm thinking try being a teenage white

00:47:10.900 girl in rotherham like there's plenty of anger to go around you know they're like oh no you're

00:47:15.160 ruining our civnat paradise every day i have to watch a new video of a woman or child being

00:47:22.040 brutalized right somebody caught i have very little mercy for people still saying this sort

00:47:28.760 of thing in this day and age after what's happened to this country if they're still willfully

00:47:32.260 ignorant or denying that all these things are happening then there's no hope for them yeah

00:47:38.500 and what's fascinating throughout this piece is they talk about basically blairism as if it's

00:47:43.200 come down from God as if it's a pre-lapsarian state or something. Look at this. Used to opponents

00:47:49.200 who challenge them mainly on grounds of economic reality, progressives now find themselves locked

00:47:52.600 in conflict with those who reject far more basic tenets of human equality. And I just think you're

00:47:57.720 up against basic tenets of human nature, is what you're up against. But they think that their thing

00:48:02.920 is the absolute basics. Like, no, no, this comes from like 1997. They're talking as if equality and

00:48:08.280 anti-racism and their sort of doctrine is is is the bedrock which of course it isn't well the

00:48:13.420 left are very ignorant of human nature i think one of the right spain advantages is that they're

00:48:17.100 a bit more realistic about how human beings behave yeah beings are inherently you know

00:48:23.640 bad and therefore we need to have a moral state and things like that yeah and we hear it again

00:48:29.320 here they talk about nigel farage robert jenry tommy robertson and paul joseph watson interesting

00:48:33.120 crew and they say they're deliberately trying to remold the nation from a civic identity to

00:48:37.920 an ethnic community in the eyes of the public i just find that so strange it's like they think

00:48:41.860 they're the norm and it's trying to be remolded it's like no you tried to remold all of history

00:48:46.360 and every nation except maybe america in this strange new image um and they talk about how in

00:48:52.800 this short period of time people have become in their word we can look at that and say authorized

00:48:56.800 to uh to have these views which is so funny it's like we didn't check with blair um we are there

00:49:03.620 he says what they're seeing we're seeing is a long-standing but weak ethno-national sympathies

00:49:06.880 that have been authorised and actively encouraged

00:49:08.520 to be expressed with greater conviction.

00:49:10.840 An interesting graph here,

00:49:11.860 especially this is about the change.

00:49:13.940 It's still a majority that says,

00:49:15.300 I agree with that it's possible to become British

00:49:16.760 if a person makes an effort.

00:49:18.480 But the people who believe you have to be born British

00:49:21.420 is growing from 2023 to 2025,

00:49:24.220 which the latter is the green.

00:49:25.780 You see how it's gone up quite a lot.

00:49:28.040 That's quite significant, actually.

00:49:29.340 How much effort would I need to put into becoming Chinese?

00:49:33.480 Good question, isn't it?

00:49:34.200 According to these people, this much?

00:49:36.200 I don't know.

00:49:36.720 is it like click your heels three times or is it 20 years of meditation i mean i don't know as you

00:49:43.500 touch the ground in china you immediately become chinese that's the standard that we have here

00:49:48.420 isn't it not sure the chinese are going to go for that they were all shouting charlie downs on gb

00:49:53.040 news about that there was three of them ganging up and i'm saying and he's like could i become

00:49:55.780 chinese like um if you went to china and learned like no one actually thinks it though no one

00:49:59.920 really thinks it all you have to do is reverse it no one thinks i can be indian you know no one

00:50:03.940 thinks Joanna Lumley's Indian because she was born there no one thinks Tolkien is South African

00:50:07.760 and no one thinks she can be Chinese but it's only this way around because it's thought to be like

00:50:12.080 advantageous when you when you and China's obviously it's like a strong country but if

00:50:16.860 you say can I be like Pakistani no one thinks no one thinks I can because no one wants to do it

00:50:21.520 that way around anyway it's absurd well it only exists so it can drive a wedge into the country

00:50:27.040 and allow people to come in and take our stuff that's basically all it's about right and here's

00:50:31.580 the problem for farage as alluded to earlier look at this i definitely agree a person has to be born

00:50:36.100 british to be truly british look at the reform support for that it's absolutely massive that's

00:50:40.700 the all and the other and the moment when his supporters figure out on mass that he is selling

00:50:46.040 them a bill of goods the backlash yeah i find it really strange people don't follow it obsessively

00:50:51.560 like us i find it really strange he can stand up and talk about extreme right ethno-nationalism

00:50:55.440 and yet the view of his sport is ethno-nationalism.

00:50:59.520 Because his audience is having their evening nap

00:51:02.760 by the time that he's saying this stuff.

00:51:05.580 Yeah, it's just stuff that sounds nice to say,

00:51:07.880 but look at that.

00:51:09.140 And obviously this makes them outliers

00:51:10.620 in the sort of numpties of the uni party

00:51:12.900 and of course reform our uni party,

00:51:14.940 but their supporters aren't because look at that.

00:51:16.780 They're way above there saying,

00:51:18.240 yeah, you have to be born British,

00:51:19.760 but everyone else is going, oh no, it's fine.

00:51:21.440 You can just adopt the British values.

00:51:23.040 i see that this is being one of the points that is actually going to become very important going

00:51:28.460 forward and i think that it's going to be talked about a lot and i think more people are going to

00:51:31.600 come around to this um i don't think it's going to peak at 36 i think it's going to go up a lot more

00:51:37.880 yeah and there's always these kind of different questions i ask him you know what makes someone

00:51:41.980 british uh there were some absurd things like oh it's a different one but it's it's there's one

00:51:47.020 it's like eurovision song contest and likes the bbc wants to be here we go so uh what makes you

00:51:54.300 what make you most proud of britain in 10 years time wins the eurovision song contest nobel peace

00:51:58.500 prize um britain leads the world in regulating social media why did you even ask that like who

00:52:03.980 cares about that i would be why would you be proud of that as bbc still widely used fewer ethnic

00:52:08.480 minorities that does come in not that high but you look at immigration there are fewer immigrants

00:52:12.480 living in britain that still scores very high as a thing that would make you proud of being british

00:52:16.820 above all sorts above european union going back in above being more reliant on america

00:52:21.780 so the biggest is still the nhs and the cost of living i can't wait to get rid of that sacred cow

00:52:28.220 madness and it's very unfortunate i'll end so dan can do his bit i just want to get one more

00:52:32.800 thing which which shows that they are sort of somewhat aware of the problem they say high

00:52:39.600 streets and community buildings in decay they just this is what we have now long queues for

00:52:44.320 public services people seeking asylum in holiday hotels and the increased

00:52:47.760 visibility of low-level crime and antisocial behavior is contributing to a

00:52:50.980 sense of malaise and fatalism so it's like so you agree all the things that

00:52:55.360 are happening asylum you know migrants pressure on services but it's a good

00:52:59.640 thing yeah but they go this is like a challenge for progressives like it's a

00:53:03.200 challenge because your whole worldview's wrong that's what we learned we're

00:53:05.500 learning from this but they just believe like their worldview is fundamental

00:53:08.440 they're right although all the signs on the ground are that this leads to

00:53:12.820 absolute chaos. And it's like, well, why don't you take this malaise that you call it and decline

00:53:17.940 and just take that and learn from it? But it's so weird. They go, no, we've just got to find ways

00:53:23.580 to sell our progressive vision of universalism, which is a term they even use. So I don't know,

00:53:29.680 they just don't quite get it. And they're not going to get it. And it's just a massive gulf

00:53:34.040 between the way these lefty think tanks and the sort of uniparty and the Westminster elite see

00:53:40.500 this and and what it reality is and like just to conclude even i thought ethno-nationalism was a

00:53:46.040 bit weird i thought it's a bit european sounding it's a bit rationalist and top down and theoretical

00:53:50.460 why not just talk about our home and of course we have a claim to our home but maybe after this i'm

00:53:55.100 thinking maybe it isn't the right term because it's just synonymous with nationalism according

00:53:58.720 to much smarter people than me so maybe we should just start using it anyway that's why

00:54:03.860 is inevitable over to you great um do you want to quickly do any oh yeah was either that you

00:54:11.560 don't have to do all of them um can i click it yeah i guess all right so uh that's a random name

00:54:19.340 with a massive contribution says can people from devon be english the science has yet to be settled

00:54:23.960 i personally am unsure if they're even human wow shots fired against devon is that about you

00:54:28.380 yeah i see what you're up to pj harvey is from devon so okay okay door watch your daughter don't

00:54:36.700 know how you say that i'm too tired look at hassan poker he became christian chinese sorry during the

00:54:41.720 visit and then became cuban during that visit then reverted back to america when he returned from

00:54:46.100 cuba that is true he's very talented so he can do that margarita afternoon what a name hello from

00:54:52.160 the u.s state of mississippi you guys are always interesting i appreciate your thoughtful commentary

00:54:55.560 many thanks that's very nice thank you yeah also i'd like a margarita afternoon in mississippi that

00:55:01.020 sounds great yeah you normally have one before the show i heard uh fallen five that's uncool

00:55:05.540 sorry i'm drinking at the minute um fallen fiber the civnat versus ethnat poll is skewed because

00:55:10.620 it doesn't take into account the 80 years of pro-civnat propaganda and vice versa great point

00:55:14.700 it might be more accurately described as how many people have woken up um oh look at this one from

00:55:20.140 ryan rumble dan's a fantastic man he really is i like that comment i'm gonna match fund that

00:55:25.820 well done nice um any more oh there's a good one ten dollars thank you dragon lady chris

00:55:33.260 repeal women's suffrage women vote stupidly because they vote on emotion instead of facts

00:55:37.560 and logic does this count as fed posting obviously i heavily disavow that even though it is my

00:55:41.900 opinion yes and also obviously drew it has come from a woman though so that's which makes it

00:55:47.840 allowed yeah yeah and also lots of mention vote let's be fair and and believe all women believe

00:55:52.640 all women so so she's right men under 30 without property shouldn't vote either um one tall order

00:55:57.980 oh is this yours yeah this is nasa again so do i need to all right okay no i i better i'll quickly

00:56:02.840 read it um that it's only one it's two dollars that nasa has a cool tracker with 3d graphics

00:56:08.880 for artemis 2 let bo know i'm sure he'd enjoy it no i i didn't see it didn't see it anywhere

00:56:13.820 no i'm joking of course so i think we've got to make the british villains again and i've got a

00:56:20.900 serious point here but um i'm going to explain it my normal inimical style of the way that i get

00:56:27.040 there um you might remember um because you're old enough do you remember in 1991 when the soviet

00:56:34.500 union collapsed and the hollywood was like oh shit we need a new villain and they thought for a while

00:56:40.340 and they were like i know the british and in the 90s all the villains were british and the film

00:56:46.500 that explained this probably the best was was golden eye because they because it starts off

00:56:52.300 as if the russians are the villains and then it's like oh no but aren't they our friends now and

00:56:57.500 then you get into it a little bit and the british guy is the villain oh yes like by the way the

00:57:01.980 greatest game ever on the n64 decent was golden eye yeah it's still the best game yes it's still

00:57:07.400 the best game ever made and just quick aside because you say i'm old enough to remember i

00:57:10.640 remember the wall coming down but being quite young and yes i couldn't stand and i was like

00:57:14.200 in my mind i was like why didn't they just take it down sooner if it was just a wall

00:57:17.500 in a way i was also right because it turned out you could just do that yes well yes good point

00:57:22.260 good point um and another bond film you know had another had another brit because of course you've

00:57:27.640 got to do that stuff um if if you're if you're if you want to be around um cunningly evil brits i

00:57:33.520 suggest you go to the lotus eaters live event uh the following weekend um this for me he he was the

00:57:39.920 best british villain of this era child's dance he later later kind of really made his name game of

00:57:44.780 thrones but in in last action hero i thought he was an awesome uh british villain uh hannibal

00:57:50.380 lector of course uh proper proper scary uh dude that he is um an inspiration to me though welsh

00:57:58.180 yes uh robin hood prince of thieves i mean i suppose it's set in medieval england so he kind

00:58:03.320 of has to be british well not these days not on netflix roger waters from pink floyd that was

00:58:10.120 alan rickman i think so oh yeah he looks in the house this was a film these were actors

00:58:17.360 it wasn't on the internet you can see the resemblance though in that picture

00:58:21.600 to alan rickman roger waters from pink floyd yeah i can't i literally can't yes okay but

00:58:27.720 you're wrong yeah i mean especially going back to say for example the um you know the last action

00:58:32.300 hero that there was a bit of a type type to it because the british guy he would you know he

00:58:37.520 would have a precise diction um you know perceived pronunciation that sort of thing and and and he

00:58:44.080 would be emotionally constrained except for bouts of extreme cruelty and i always liked that and he

00:58:50.580 and he and and he had class he always had class he had the tailoring he had the posture he had

00:58:56.000 the vocabulary he looks like a member of the royal family as well doesn't he could easily be

00:58:59.380 prince harry with the neck tattoo there though i don't know about that yeah i wasn't yeah i

00:59:04.360 didn't like that bit um and he's often like you know an officer of a bureaucrat and so basically

00:59:08.920 the the british villain was always um was it ordered evil whereas the the american hero was

00:59:18.820 always chaotic good in terms of alignment and he would he would be like oh yeah i i uh break all

00:59:24.720 the rules and i do it my way but i get the results and he gets chewed out by his boss on the way

00:59:29.360 Whereas the British guy, he's like, no, I make the rules.

00:59:33.040 It's like sort of Dirty Harry, isn't it?

00:59:34.620 Yeah.

00:59:35.080 Where he doesn't use conventional methods.

00:59:37.740 He's a sort of maverick.

00:59:38.900 That's quite often the typical American hero.

00:59:42.160 Well, that's their thing.

00:59:43.100 They can have the hero, but I want the villain back

00:59:46.000 because he's sort of controlled and knowing and he's precise.

00:59:49.860 It does make us look good, doesn't it?

00:59:51.440 Exactly.

00:59:52.060 That's why I really liked this era.

00:59:53.700 We also make good villains because to have a compelling villain,

00:59:57.880 you have to make them sort of competent and scary and if they're calm collected well spoken

01:00:03.180 and and quite orderly that makes them scarier because they're more competent exactly it's why

01:00:08.840 germans make good villains as well because they're they're very efficient you say that that's my next

01:00:13.100 example what do you do if if the if the script calls for a hans gruber a german guy but you're

01:00:22.000 in the era of the British villain

01:00:23.260 where you get

01:00:24.000 a British actor

01:00:25.840 to play

01:00:27.080 the German

01:00:28.100 just do that accent

01:00:29.920 that you just did

01:00:30.560 is the best

01:00:31.320 the German

01:00:32.340 yeah

01:00:32.660 I don't know if that is necessarily

01:00:34.120 the best German accent

01:00:35.180 but

01:00:35.580 don't have the best record

01:00:36.940 of German accents being good

01:00:39.200 in our acting

01:00:39.880 to be honest

01:00:40.960 and then even if you make

01:00:42.420 the film again

01:00:43.300 a sequel

01:00:44.200 can I just say

01:00:45.680 it's weirder if you don't do it

01:00:47.040 you know those films

01:00:47.480 where like

01:00:47.900 they're meant to be German

01:00:48.960 but they're just speaking English

01:00:49.900 and we're just meant to know

01:00:50.740 that's weirder

01:00:51.740 In a Cornish accent or something.

01:00:52.740 I prefer it when they go, we have ways of making you talk.

01:00:55.020 I am from Bradford or whatever.

01:00:56.720 I prefer those.

01:00:57.520 It's all a bit Dr. Strangelove to me, hearing someone do an accent.

01:01:00.780 It's like, I can tell you're doing an accent.

01:01:02.940 I like it.

01:01:03.960 It depends how old you are.

01:01:04.820 I like it.

01:01:05.500 Die Hard with a Vengeance.

01:01:07.100 Another German played by a Brit, Jeremy Irons.

01:01:10.560 He's very good.

01:01:11.600 He even got Scar, who was the clever one in The Lion King.

01:01:17.240 Is that how you see it?

01:01:18.120 Yeah.

01:01:18.760 The Lion King.

01:01:20.640 dark triad reading of the yes the dark triad reading the lion king himself was played by

01:01:25.420 an african-american but for the villain you need yeah he's also brilliant in margin call as a kind

01:01:30.980 of yes kind of villain he's pretty much a villain as well i mean there's so many examples during

01:01:35.480 this era that apparently rob roy i never watched that one um even in the future so so in the past

01:01:41.440 you need you need a brit and in the future you need a brit as well whenever you've got a villain

01:01:46.280 it has to be a brit um that's like futuristic hitler isn't it a great understated performance

01:01:52.940 yes even if you're doing the nazis the germans you still need a brit to do it and and he kind

01:02:02.360 of did what you did which was make almost no effort to be german almost none just a really

01:02:08.500 bad accent please remember i am german throughout this film now i will drop this

01:02:12.480 yes um even if your villain is russian after the fall of the soviet union if you really really

01:02:23.080 needed a russian well fine but we get a brit to do it we're not getting an actual russian we're

01:02:28.600 not going to give those people work was it some sort of like union thing or like it was cheaper

01:02:34.060 you know it's cheaper to do films in england or was for a time in britain right and they were

01:02:37.080 all doing them over here i think i think the i think in the 90s the films were still made in

01:02:40.500 america but obviously if you're going to do the villain bit you need a brit for it i don't think

01:02:45.940 we're as capable to play russians as we are germans i think we can just about get away with

01:02:52.140 germans but russians is too you know my favorite russian was john malkovich in rounders he's like

01:02:57.580 pay him pay that to me in his money i'm like what is that what that is it's very memorable it's

01:03:03.400 definitely not russian yes it stayed with me he wasn't menacing enough though because he wasn't

01:03:07.080 british now the reason i bring this up is because uh our our pal trump has recently decided that

01:03:15.800 the british are to be the villains now to be very clear i am a hundred percent in favor of this

01:03:21.420 i think this is good news so what's trump saying here um of all the countries that can't get jet

01:03:27.160 fuel because of the straits of hormuz like the united kingdom which refuse to get involved in

01:03:31.300 the in the decapitation of iran i have a suggestion for you number one buy from the us

01:03:36.520 Actually, I should be doing this in a Trump accent.

01:03:38.680 I can't do Trump accents.

01:03:39.980 Can you pick up in a Trump accent?

01:03:42.280 From there.

01:03:43.520 I don't know.

01:03:44.120 I have to start by saying things that he says,

01:03:45.820 like, many people, I have a suggestion for you.

01:03:48.300 Number one, buy from the US.

01:03:49.860 We have plenty.

01:03:50.860 And number two, build up some delayed courage.

01:03:53.800 Go to the strait and just take it.

01:03:56.900 You don't have to do the whole thing.

01:03:58.040 Yes.

01:03:58.240 You'll have to start learning how to fight for yourself.

01:04:03.940 The USA won't be there to help you anymore.

01:04:05.820 it's really

01:04:06.280 really tragic

01:04:07.320 just like you

01:04:07.940 weren't there for us

01:04:08.720 Iran has been

01:04:09.280 essentially decimated

01:04:10.460 the hard part is done

01:04:11.900 go get your own oil

01:04:13.240 President DJ team

01:04:14.520 yeah it's very good

01:04:15.440 better than I could do

01:04:16.240 I should have done it

01:04:17.000 in a

01:04:17.320 go get your own oil

01:04:18.340 just because that's

01:04:18.700 the one I can do

01:04:19.400 well then you might say

01:04:20.900 go and get your own oil

01:04:21.960 well it turns out

01:04:22.580 to be more complicated

01:04:23.120 that's Canadian

01:04:23.740 it's the one I can do best

01:04:25.760 you can't just do it

01:04:27.180 in whatever

01:04:27.620 whatever one

01:04:28.320 you can do best

01:04:29.160 it's literally

01:04:30.580 what Roy Bremond would do

01:04:31.340 what if President Trump

01:04:32.280 was Jordan Peterson

01:04:33.300 what if the President

01:04:33.980 of the United States

01:04:34.360 was Jordan Peterson

01:04:34.940 It's like, all those countries that can't get jet fuel

01:04:37.120 because of the strainer for our moves.

01:04:38.900 We're not going to read it as Donald Trump

01:04:40.880 as if he was doing a Peterson impression

01:04:44.360 at the time that he wrote the Trump.

01:04:46.000 Because he should, though.

01:04:47.280 Right.

01:04:48.180 I do actually have a serious point here.

01:04:50.000 The serious point is, right,

01:04:51.180 even though he almost certainly just got annoyed one evening

01:04:54.020 and banged out that tweet.

01:04:55.720 I hate Starmer.

01:04:56.720 He always does that as well.

01:04:58.140 I'm not suggesting that there's any 5D chess going on here.

01:05:01.060 But what I'm saying is, is Donald,

01:05:02.980 you accidentally had a moment of brilliance here stick with this and you can at least get some 2d

01:05:09.420 chess out of it so let's break this down so you know he says you're going to have to fight for

01:05:13.740 yourself well i mean that's a jurisdictional transfer there and he was saying this isn't

01:05:19.040 our problem this is your problem um so we're going to hand it off to you and he's basically

01:05:23.820 taking it out of the world of u.s obligation because you know it's not like we broke it

01:05:28.840 therefore we have to fix it it's we broke it um but you were planning on using it and therefore

01:05:34.440 it's your problem and you've got to you've got to go and sort it out i mean actually he's almost

01:05:39.320 certainly really talking to the chinese here rather than the british yeah it's pretty horrible

01:05:44.880 to say the british right we ruined the strait of hormones get your own oil now yeah we just did

01:05:50.380 this i mean that is terrible i mean actually we don't actually get an awful lot of oil from

01:05:53.760 the Straits of Hormuz.

01:05:55.940 We do get some liquid natural gas.

01:05:58.800 We get most of it from Qatar,

01:06:00.920 or from the Saudis,

01:06:02.340 who they're then...

01:06:03.080 Well, we get some from the US.

01:06:05.700 We get quite a bit from Norway.

01:06:07.520 But yeah, we did get some from Qatar.

01:06:09.180 So the oil isn't really our thing.

01:06:11.200 But really, it's the Chinese

01:06:12.920 who use the strait.

01:06:14.620 So really, this message

01:06:15.900 is a message to the Chinese saying,

01:06:17.800 can you come and sort it out?

01:06:19.780 But he can't say that, of course.

01:06:22.440 So at least what he's trying to do is because, look,

01:06:27.060 wars that the US loses,

01:06:29.980 they normally only exit after another president has come in

01:06:33.240 because then it's not their loss.

01:06:35.420 The Americans can't be seen to take a loss.

01:06:37.600 So what I'm saying is push this war onto the UK,

01:06:41.800 make it our loss, and then you can exit.

01:06:46.920 You see where I'm going with this?

01:06:48.360 You're taking one for the team.

01:06:50.140 Yes.

01:06:50.840 Yes.

01:06:51.780 Pete Hegsef has been getting in on this as well.

01:06:54.920 Can I just say,

01:06:55.560 Yvette Cooper seems to have taken it seriously,

01:06:57.560 remember her,

01:06:58.200 taken it seriously,

01:06:58.800 because she apparently today

01:06:59.720 wouldn't say that we were allies with America.

01:07:02.080 That's quite extreme, isn't it?

01:07:03.820 She was pressed on whether we were actually allies,

01:07:07.120 and she wouldn't say we are.

01:07:08.600 Well, I want to see more of that.

01:07:09.900 Trump could accidentally ruin the so-called special agencies

01:07:12.060 by secretly appealing to China with 6D chess.

01:07:16.480 Well, I don't believe in the whole 5D chess

01:07:19.000 or 6D chess or whatever.

01:07:20.140 I'm just saying,

01:07:20.640 he's accidentally stumbled upon the strategy that he actually should use he actually should

01:07:26.560 make the british the villains again this is what he needs to do pete hegseth's got in on this you

01:07:31.180 know last time we can anyone do a pete hegseth accent no right last time i checked there was

01:07:36.320 supposed to be a big bad royal navy that could be prepared to do things like that and and this is

01:07:40.860 this is the thing so i've had a lot of hate posts from americans in the last few weeks well last

01:07:44.540 week or so um and 50 of them say um you should be opening the straits of hormuz of your navy and the

01:07:51.760 other half is saying that you don't have a navy now neither of those are necessarily wrong but

01:07:57.020 they are inconsistent so pick a lane i would say on that um the other thing but my serious point

01:08:03.280 here is yes okay so many people are coming at me on the comments and um on social media and other

01:08:11.940 of stuff saying well we could beat them we could do it and it's like okay well maybe you could

01:08:16.640 but at what cost how many american bodies are going to go down in this so and and and another

01:08:24.320 thing they always say to me is they always say to me oh we're not losing in iran we're winning

01:08:28.100 because we're killing more them than they are killing us but by that logic that means that

01:08:33.780 britain won the war 1776 because the british killed more americans than the other way around

01:08:41.380 So you cannot use that logic.

01:08:45.280 But I just don't want to see dead Americans.

01:08:47.520 That's it.

01:08:48.060 I was saying this to people,

01:08:49.320 that you can be opposed to the war

01:08:50.780 without wishing harm on American soldiers.

01:08:54.900 People were giving me flack for this.

01:08:56.440 I just don't want people to die.

01:09:00.220 I'm opposed to the war

01:09:02.000 because I don't want Americans to die.

01:09:03.920 Not because I do, but because I don't.

01:09:06.220 You've got to remember, in Vietnam,

01:09:07.300 um 58 000 u.s troops died 58 bloody thousand and then on top of that um maybe maybe 800 000 or a

01:09:18.480 million vietcong and multiples of that in civilians i mean it was it was absolutely and what for that's

01:09:26.020 yeah exactly and what for and and to ultimately lose unless unless you're doing it on the logic

01:09:31.900 of we killed more of them and therefore we won but then in which case we won 1776 so that's like

01:09:36.420 in the popular vote at the elections not yes not the game yes i would also like to point out that

01:09:41.400 it is a little bit rich to be pointing the finger at other people for not helping them at the drop

01:09:45.620 of a hat when america only sort of joined in the conflict once israel moved and they're like oh

01:09:51.200 right we need to do something because marco rubio explicitly said this in a press conference yeah

01:09:55.380 he did that it was they that did something and then the u.s had to scramble to to react yeah and

01:10:02.360 that's part of the reason why lots of the gulf countries are annoyed because they didn't get

01:10:05.700 a fair warning but actually the u.s and did did rubio misspeak on purpose that is an that is an

01:10:11.040 interesting question but afghanistan 2400 u.s dead troops um and maybe 70 000 taliban insurgents

01:10:19.420 killed again multiples of that in civilians taliban are still there you know that was another

01:10:25.840 loss iraq war 4400 u.s troops died in that and yes okay they killed 100 000 iraqi troops and

01:10:34.320 multiples of that in civilians but i mean i i think you could maybe put that one down in the

01:10:40.000 win category not quite though it's sort of like it like it's still a very unstable country there's

01:10:46.420 still actual isis the whole democracy thing didn't didn't land well no it doesn't work korean war

01:10:51.820 36 000 um u.s troops had to give their lives for that uh and yes okay they might killed like half

01:10:58.440 a million um north korean and chinese troops um but ultimately the the invasion was repelled so i

01:11:06.100 suppose you can give them that one bay of pigs again um you know they they lost what is it the

01:11:10.840 hundred um cuban rebels that went over there and they managed to kill slightly more government

01:11:14.940 forces but castro's still there um there's multiple examples like the somalian invention

01:11:19.820 from black hawk down 43 um u.s service personnel lost their lives in that yes they managed to kill

01:11:25.720 a thousand militants but is it are are 43 americans worth the equivalent of a thousand somalians i

01:11:34.020 don't know um interesting question to ask and um i suppose they did ultimately capture the um the

01:11:39.900 warlord um but what might iran be is is it going to be 110 000 u.s troops well don't they have an

01:11:47.980 army of like 500 000 and also good defensible terrain they've got an army of a million a million

01:11:53.720 And their whole country is made out of mountains.

01:11:56.420 And they've had 20 years to prepare.

01:11:58.460 If I were playing a strategy game,

01:12:00.180 that would be one of the areas of the world I would conquer last.

01:12:03.520 Like, it's the most difficult.

01:12:05.000 A lot of ground troops, very defensible terrain,

01:12:09.320 lots of mountains probably, you know, like Afghanistan,

01:12:11.760 some caves to hide in.

01:12:13.040 And if not, then they can dig them.

01:12:15.260 And so it's a very difficult situation.

01:12:19.020 Because I get so many people coming at me at the moment,

01:12:21.140 and they're completely misunderstanding the point.

01:12:24.360 It's like, oh, why do you like the Iranian regime?

01:12:26.220 No, I don't.

01:12:26.880 I don't like the Iranian regime.

01:12:28.460 But I don't want to see 10,000 US troops killed.

01:12:32.140 I don't want to see whatever it is.

01:12:34.100 I mean, I don't particularly care that much

01:12:35.620 about the 200,000 IRGC, you know, soldiers.

01:12:39.640 I don't particularly care much about them.

01:12:41.180 But I do care about like the half a million

01:12:43.480 of Iranian civilians

01:12:45.140 that will end up getting killed on this.

01:12:47.900 And you've got Pete Hegseff now saying things like,

01:12:49.960 back to the Stone Age. They're going to bomb Iran back to the Stone Age. Well, I mean, let's just

01:12:56.580 go back a little bit, right? President Trump was saying not so long ago, to the great proud people

01:13:02.460 of Iran, I say tonight, the hour your freedom's at hand. So he was calling them the great proud

01:13:08.320 people of Iran. You can't sell us on bombing these people back to the Stone Age when these

01:13:13.700 were great people a few weeks ago um here's another one um the noble people of iran who

01:13:20.680 love america deserve a government's more interest in helping them achieve their dreams

01:13:24.540 uh and he's quoting himself there to the brave long-suffering people of iran

01:13:29.340 i've stood with you since the beginning well you can't bomb them back to the bloody stone age then

01:13:33.720 to me the only compelling argument from that side is the nuclear argument that they're trying to

01:13:38.180 stop them getting the nuclear weapon because if they got that it's all it all hell breaks loose

01:13:41.760 I mean it's hard to counter that completely and say we don't care but the regime change one I've

01:13:48.740 not I don't believe in because you always end up back with a similar regime also you can't really

01:13:52.960 do rage regime change from the outside because if if a foreign government just put someone at the

01:13:59.760 top well there's no consent well that's that's how this whole mess started with the show of Iran

01:14:04.640 yeah exactly um yeah trump said here i'd i was it if you consider helping the people of iran

01:14:12.780 trump said i'd like to um you know they're great people amazing population it's amazing smart

01:14:18.860 brilliant energetic um you can't combine that with the with the um you know bombing them back

01:14:24.600 to the stone age this is just a problem i think with people going all out in the rhetoric that

01:14:31.220 suits them at the time rather than just being completely honest and you wouldn't have the

01:14:37.300 the dissonance between these different statements if it wasn't driven by pursuing self-interest in

01:14:43.900 the short term yeah yeah absolutely and and let's let's look at what this would actually look like

01:14:49.520 right this is the famous image from vietnam that sort of turned people against this you know in

01:14:55.720 in the center there you've got a naked nine-year-old um vietnamese girl and the reason she's

01:15:00.920 naked is because she had to tear off her clothes because her back is splashed with napalm um as

01:15:06.560 if many of the other children there you might think you're hot for this war and that oh yeah

01:15:11.900 we're going to get those bad guys with the kalashnikov yeah you will get bad guys with

01:15:16.680 kalashnikovs and for every one of them there'll be three four five civilians a whole bunch of

01:15:21.560 them children and you're going to have to look at images like this in high definition knowing that

01:15:27.340 that's something that you were backing and interestingly that girl there I mean this

01:15:31.820 picture just doesn't do it justice because she's facing the wrong way um this is the same woman

01:15:36.940 um 60 years later after and and this is after dozens and dozens she lives in Canada now this

01:15:44.720 is after dozens of surgeries right and that I mean all that skin was burnt off in in that image

01:15:51.380 you just can't see it and that happened to a nine-year-old girl you don't you do not want this

01:15:56.680 going on in your name well people are so isolated from the consequences of warfare like not only is

01:16:03.260 warfare more dangerous than ever because the weapons are better and therefore there's more

01:16:08.120 lethality um but also the the cost to civilians quite often these war zones are in places that

01:16:15.620 are densely populated it's hypothetical to a lot of people and and people don't realize the

01:16:20.860 tremendous amounts of human suffering that are going to that's the main reason i was opposed to

01:16:25.700 it is that no matter how bad the regime is it's not worth all of the human suffering of the u.s

01:16:32.840 soldiers the civilians whoever's involved um you know it can't be as bad as that no and and there's

01:16:41.760 no cope argument you can make here because she's from a village that was actually um on the u.s's

01:16:46.660 side and the u.s was staging there and this was actually a friendly fire incident and a whole

01:16:52.200 bunch of u.s troops got obliterated with napalm in this strike as well so there's that so i don't

01:16:57.640 want this for you know um hundreds of thousands of iranian civilians and children um but also

01:17:04.080 i don't want this every one of these coffins that comes back to the u.s um should be a young man

01:17:11.700 or maybe even a young woman um coming back to their kids or going on to have kids and and it's

01:17:19.360 so easy when it's all this hypothetical stuff about oh yeah we're just gonna bomb them from

01:17:24.560 the sky no it doesn't it doesn't bloody work the troops are gonna have to go in and you're gonna

01:17:29.000 have to get used to a regular stream of planes coming back with flag draped coffins and that

01:17:35.500 is all unnecessary and and so for that reason go ahead and make us the villains i'm giving you the

01:17:42.300 b pass you know just just do that what i want to see is is comments like this this was a brilliant

01:17:47.780 comment um from from cynthia here let me let me just click into that right um effing cowards in

01:17:56.300 england and australia slithering out today in unison like the spineless effing cucks they are

01:18:01.900 look at these gutless wonders too effing terrified to stand for anything real spineless jellyfish

01:18:07.080 with no balls and no backbone just a collective circle jerk of weakness england and australia

01:18:12.340 both bending the knee in perfect sync like the pathetic beta bitches they are disgusting that

01:18:16.920 makes it more humiliating that you're asking us for help if all these things are true well that's

01:18:21.540 not where i'm going with this i i'm in favor of this absolutely um effing cowards every last one

01:18:27.560 of you she goes on and on and on like morgoff says absolute full of piss and vinegar i saw this tweet

01:18:32.840 and i liked it i want you want to be browbeaten by women because it's such bad press for them

01:18:41.040 no no because no because i this needs to be this needs to become the narrative because

01:18:46.420 america cannot psychologically take a loss at least not in the same president as as the one

01:18:53.440 who got it minted i mean surely they could just you know i know it's not in their nature but get

01:18:57.400 a bit of humility and just admit that they've failed because i think that part of the reason

01:19:03.120 why americans get flack abroad and i'm not i'm saying this out of love not out of out of a

01:19:09.420 criticism is that you can't admit when you're wrong you've got this sort of toxic positivity

01:19:14.740 of i'm always right everything's always good everything is is perfect you can't admit mistakes

01:19:20.360 and it's a flaw of your civilization honestly i don't think that's going to happen no i don't

01:19:26.300 it would be much easier to make the british the villains that's what i want i want every american

01:19:33.820 as well all the all the low salience americans are already doing this anyway i can see i'm

01:19:38.240 getting like 30 or 40 comments every time i put up anything on social media which is americans

01:19:43.140 just just ragging on me and too unfortunately too many americans can see through it and they're not

01:19:49.320 doing that you all need to get on board i thought it was very unpopular because of the israel aspect

01:19:54.500 that many on the American right just feel

01:19:56.260 they're being led into it by a foreign...

01:19:58.040 Well, come back to that one.

01:20:00.580 But make us the villains for now,

01:20:02.760 because that will give Trump the excuse

01:20:05.320 to get out of Iran if he can pin it on Britain instead.

01:20:09.980 I mean, I agree that if it means

01:20:12.260 that the war is going to come to an end

01:20:14.020 and they get to save face and they blame it on us

01:20:17.220 and say, oh, it was Britain that ruined our war effort, fine.

01:20:20.680 And I'd be happy with that.

01:20:21.840 I'd rather, you know, them save the American soldiers' lives

01:20:25.040 and the civilians' lives and what have you,

01:20:27.120 and us, you know, getting sold.

01:20:29.600 And you also get to see Trump ragging on Starmer in the meantime,

01:20:32.520 which is always hilarious.

01:20:33.480 But Starmer, annoyingly, in a way, has been better on it.

01:20:36.540 Farage and Kemi were too gung-ho.

01:20:38.820 It's annoying the way he's repeated that ad nauseum in Parliament,

01:20:41.160 but he's actually right.

01:20:42.240 They were too gung-ho about getting involved in this war.

01:20:45.100 And he, whether it was through caution or ineptness or whatever the reason,

01:20:48.920 he was more cautious, and that was actually correct.

01:20:50.660 Trump needs to take it up a gear because he hasn't even threatened he hasn't even implied that he's

01:20:54.880 going to invade us yet Denmark and Greenland got that after a couple of weeks we need to be getting

01:20:59.540 to the point where he's he is frothing at the mouth saying that he's going to invade us that's

01:21:03.980 that's where we need to get to but he won't actually do it in the end but the point is it

01:21:08.120 will give him the excuse to get out of a war before tens of thousands of US troops die so

01:21:13.340 I want to get back to this plus the other cute ancillary benefit is that the movie villains

01:21:18.760 will become good again so so so this this is my point we it doesn't really trip off the tongue

01:21:26.240 mebva make britain villains again will they just be starmer cowards like you know the villain's

01:21:32.920 like you can't do that no they will have to make them cool because they're still going to want to

01:21:38.560 sell movie tickets so uh yeah absolutely um if you're american i give you the b pass start giving

01:21:44.360 us shit relentlessly um make sure that this is perceived as a british failing we you know we

01:21:49.980 we're the ones who lost the war in iran put it on us and get yourself out of it before you find

01:21:55.300 yourself in an even worse mess right the the ground invasion is is coming though in all honesty like

01:22:05.000 they're moving all of their troops out there and they've got the amphibious assault well hopefully

01:22:09.780 hopefully they can put it on us before it gets to that um

01:22:13.260 oklador says maybe hollywood saw that the american hero needs to be competent british

01:22:20.860 villain to show how capable both sides are uh yes i think that is actually the the dynamic that

01:22:27.560 you want a scary villain who is competent and imposing in a high status and i feel like if you

01:22:33.920 go straight to the top it's the brits now that's a random name says all i'm saying is i've seen

01:22:39.600 josh blink sideways i don't know what that means oh like the lizard thing i'm not a lizard i swear

01:22:45.660 but i'm gonna have some flies for lunch later reference to the devon um questionable whether

01:22:53.180 you're a human thing from before don't judge me by my webbed fingers and toes that's that's

01:22:58.760 different right um they're apparently comments we started with the moon one okay um oh we just got

01:23:05.420 a rumble rant in for ten dollars actually uh one for one paladin i would reframe the space stuff

01:23:12.100 as somewhat wasteful if our own civilization is falling apart at the base layer family faith

01:23:17.380 religion etc well maybe maybe it's falling apart because we have no aspiration anymore

01:23:22.620 yeah i think it's good to have things that restore people's faith in in civilization itself

01:23:30.420 like if if things decline to the point where people don't even think civilization is possible

01:23:35.720 well i have no i love democracy we are already up to 32 can see it yeah a lot of people waking up

01:23:47.820 that is tremendous i mean that that's ahead of that's ahead of restores poll numbers at this

01:23:52.960 point well and and reform and reform yes you're right 68 you've win an election in this country

01:24:00.200 with with 32 not against 68 it wouldn't well no because that would be fragmented all over the

01:24:05.820 place so you're gonna it's gonna be condensed you're gonna have a little um sort of moon

01:24:13.340 trufer constituents i'm not planning to run to parliament on that basis but it's you know it's

01:24:18.740 It's just obvious when you think about it.

01:24:21.000 Right.

01:24:22.460 Josh Firm sitting on a banana.

01:24:24.420 It's for science.

01:24:25.900 How did you know about that?

01:24:27.820 I missed off Groeper at the end of that.

01:24:29.340 That's true.

01:24:30.280 Wait, you guys believe the moon exists?

01:24:32.520 How gullible.

01:24:34.000 It's actually just...

01:24:35.440 Yeah, that's next level.

01:24:36.300 It's a projection.

01:24:37.260 It's a light in the sky.

01:24:38.900 It's not actually real.

01:24:41.500 Bisley Shooter.

01:24:42.540 Is there a sign on the toilet saying,

01:24:45.720 don't flush in the space dock?

01:24:48.740 well i suppose yeah it would just go everywhere wouldn't it az desert rat says i think the part

01:24:54.060 of the reason the nasa cockpit has older equipment is because nasa won't use anything

01:24:59.100 until it's been tested and rated for use in space nasa astronauts have been carrying their own

01:25:05.040 personal laptops into space for years because the only laptops nasa has tested for use in space are

01:25:10.180 from the 90s yeah i suppose they're being very thorough which you can't really fault them for

01:25:15.720 but um i think that there's space for innovation you can create a vacuum in a lab and test things

01:25:22.260 can't you surely but anyway um move on to your segment nick oh yeah okay i'm gonna skip the

01:25:28.360 first one because it's a vlad the impaler based comment probably get me in the star magu like

01:25:32.280 about migration but omar says we have three years for the trend to mature the decline isn't even

01:25:39.060 slowing down let alone improving three years to reach the non-political three years to let people

01:25:42.840 know there's a real right-wing pro-british party three years to activate the massive block of

01:25:47.040 demoralized voters who abstain every election yes and that is restore britain um derek power

01:25:54.280 being ethno-nationalist gets you the ladies see amelia that's a good point lord and christine

01:25:59.140 hector rex did you lads see merkelite making she intentionally flooded germany with migrants to

01:26:03.140 stop the far right i did see that video yes shocking stuff although not surprising maria

01:26:08.720 Manzi, ethno-nationalism or

01:26:10.840 since time immemorial, birds of a feather

01:26:12.820 flock together, tribalism is root in humanity

01:26:15.060 that's obviously true

01:26:16.100 and

01:26:17.800 diogenese

01:26:19.920 diogenese nuts, it's kind of a

01:26:22.840 diogenese meets these nuts joke

01:26:25.000 that I'm too tired to read properly

01:26:26.420 actually the moment you touch the soil in China

01:26:28.400 with your bare skin you don't become Chinese

01:26:30.460 you become ill, I understand the West

01:26:32.700 often conflates poor health and sanitation with the Chinese

01:26:34.820 but one doesn't necessitate the other

01:26:36.720 interesting

01:26:37.820 damn

01:26:40.640 my bit

01:26:41.080 Michael

01:26:41.780 says

01:26:42.660 Michael

01:26:43.180 Moorcock's

01:26:43.960 Jewel in the

01:26:44.480 Skull

01:26:44.900 Hawkmoon

01:26:45.480 series

01:26:45.860 Brits with

01:26:46.320 the Villain

01:26:46.640 I've never

01:26:46.940 seen that

01:26:47.440 series

01:26:47.800 is that a

01:26:48.240 film series

01:26:48.820 I don't

01:26:49.640 know what

01:26:49.840 that is

01:26:50.640 Alex

01:26:51.960 Ogle

01:26:52.340 says

01:26:52.560 the

01:26:53.240 best

01:26:54.200 British

01:26:55.700 villain

01:26:56.240 portrayal

01:26:56.960 Ben

01:26:57.340 Kingsley

01:26:57.940 as Gandhi

01:26:59.460 yeah

01:27:00.080 Gandhi

01:27:00.720 is a

01:27:01.160 villain

01:27:01.360 did we get

01:27:01.820 Ben

01:27:02.140 Kingsley

01:27:02.760 to play

01:27:03.300 Gandhi

01:27:03.920 he's half

01:27:05.520 Indian

01:27:05.960 is he

01:27:06.920 yeah

01:27:07.280 you didn't know

01:27:08.440 I didn't know that

01:27:09.360 yeah

01:27:09.760 you know one of his

01:27:10.720 best villain roles

01:27:11.660 although I could also

01:27:12.540 make a case from

01:27:13.120 being the goodie as well

01:27:13.980 sexy beast

01:27:15.220 is that the one

01:27:16.620 where he tries to get

01:27:17.440 an ex-con to do a job

01:27:19.220 and he's like

01:27:20.000 the most mental

01:27:20.680 yes

01:27:21.400 yes Grosvenor

01:27:22.260 yes Roundtree

01:27:22.920 he's mental in that

01:27:23.900 yeah he's the most

01:27:24.920 unpleasant human being

01:27:26.100 I've ever seen on screen

01:27:27.660 yes

01:27:28.100 yeah but I've got this idea

01:27:29.620 of trying to look at movies

01:27:30.540 where you can support

01:27:31.840 the villain

01:27:32.260 I should have said that

01:27:32.900 in your section

01:27:33.240 like few good men

01:27:34.240 Jack Nicholson's the hero

01:27:35.160 you know you can go

01:27:36.240 through loads of them

01:27:36.780 Superman

01:27:37.380 loads of examples

01:27:38.640 they're all libs

01:27:40.320 one of the most challenging ones

01:27:41.420 I thought was

01:27:42.020 Sexy Beast

01:27:43.200 because actually he just

01:27:44.280 why should the guy

01:27:45.180 just get out

01:27:45.780 he's upholding the honour

01:27:47.240 you know

01:27:47.700 he's helped out his mates

01:27:49.440 and he's got

01:27:49.860 bugged off to Spain

01:27:51.020 but really

01:27:51.860 Kingsley is just saying

01:27:53.120 no no

01:27:53.460 you've got a duty

01:27:54.260 and responsibility now

01:27:55.180 we need you to do this job

01:27:56.460 so we can all make money

01:27:57.480 in a way

01:27:58.620 it's pro-social

01:27:59.340 okay

01:28:01.340 I said it's one of the harder ones

01:28:03.200 but I do

01:28:03.720 American history

01:28:04.220 I do think it's taking the piss a bit

01:28:05.760 to get a Brit

01:28:06.500 to play gandhi i like that that's rubbing their noses in it yes and they can't complain because

01:28:12.280 he's half indian so that's quite good yeah when you say rubbing their noses um california refugee

01:28:16.420 says serious question uh what is the goal for iran i have no idea the goalpost seems to move

01:28:20.960 are you asking from the iranian perspective or the u.s perspective because i can answer from

01:28:24.940 the iranian perspective i can't answer from the u.s perspective i think it means u.s because

01:28:28.800 sometimes it's take out the nuclear facility sometimes it's regime change sometimes it's

01:28:31.980 something else well there's multiple goals i think is the truth of it isn't there well if it's regime

01:28:36.180 change he says that he's already done that because he killed khamenei if it's taking out the military

01:28:40.920 claims he's already taken out 100 of the military and therefore he's already done that if it's taken

01:28:45.000 out the nuclear again he's claimed that he's already done that in fact he did that last summer

01:28:49.700 they've taken out the air force haven't they haven't necessarily taken out all the ground

01:28:53.740 troops no uh trump has tweeted that he has destroyed 100 of iran's military

01:28:59.620 so stopping them then well exactly to the capital um even if the henry ashman says even if the

01:29:08.520 villains aren't british the actors playing them should be because they should be properly

01:29:13.080 theatrically trained a proper british villain also invites you over for tea in the game of chess

01:29:18.180 and says things like ah i see you're trying to stop me how quaint of you i should have done that

01:29:22.620 in a british accent actually um somebody's pointing out the mel gibson's of of um brave

01:29:28.720 heart and the patriot uh proper british villains in that um and az desert i'm opposed to the war

01:29:34.840 because i don't see reason to us to be involved in a war in a country that is the other side of

01:29:38.560 the world with no clear threat yeah especially when in the atlantic region i mean the u.s is

01:29:45.120 vast it's got all the farmland you need it's got lots of energy especially if you add in canada

01:29:50.740 and uh mexico and well and then you get so much from south america so you've got everything you

01:29:55.900 need locally um yeah anyway you've got north america and south america you've got more than

01:30:01.740 enough resources there so i think it's just maintenance of the american empire really that's

01:30:06.500 that's the well this is this is probably not the way to go about it because it's i do agree yes

01:30:11.300 um okay so with that um what do we go oh we got um lads hour that's that's so come and join us

01:30:18.280 on lads hour um uh well i've designed a new game and it should be good so uh see you then

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - April 03, 2026

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1389

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