The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1392
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 31 minutes
Words per minute
185.3635
Harmful content
Misogyny
7
sentences flagged
Toxicity
49
sentences flagged
Hate speech
166
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode of The Lotus Eaters, the lads discuss the current state of affairs in the Middle East, including the recent events in Iran and the election of Donald Trump. They also discuss the upcoming live event they are hosting in Swindon on the 11th of April, where they will be debating Star Wars.
Transcript
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hello and welcome to podcast of the lotus eaters it is episode 1392 it is the 8th of april year
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of our lord 2026 and i'm joined by carl and ferraz hello it's peace day peace is broken out
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last it will last for a thousand years ah yeah about that no am i being too optimistic yeah i
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I mean, it didn't last until the beginning of the podcast.
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Well, if I have to, but just a bit of framing here,
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because we've been getting some anger from our MAGA friends,
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i personally grew up in american schools and was educated at the american university of beirut
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and i've always been pro-american given the alternatives around me i mean it's not hard
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when your other options are saudi arabia iran and turkey yeah i'll take the americans any day
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of the week it's really not that difficult um and i think i'm quite anti-iran in general
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because I'm kind of anti-Islam in general.
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And Iran spent a lot of money spreading Islam in the Middle East, right?
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The Shia Muslims of Lebanon used to be the backbone of the Lebanese Communist Party, actually.
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And then Iranian influence turned them into demilitant religious zealots.
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is because anybody who wants the European right to succeed
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in another Middle Eastern adventure, essentially.
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because i think everybody here knows that um if the united states ends up with a democratic
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president in 2028 the restrictions on free speech in europe will double down and triple down
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everything will become considerably worse this will be used to sort of discredit any rise of
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the right throughout the west and it will be a disaster well they're going to conduct war
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war trials exactly war crime trials yeah exactly as well as all the sexual madness that they come
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as well as all the degeneracy and everything else that comes with the left rising etc so
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nothing i say comes out of a particular love for iran i mean to be fair as a catholic i have a bit
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of a soft spot for the shia rather than the sunnis but not that much really so i just wanted to give
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that framing uh for people to understand where we're coming from really i think it's also worth
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knowing that um for the rest of us like we're obviously anglos so we're naturally disposed to
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our cousins across the pond yes and we were massive we are massive supporters of trump
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when he is a nativist because what we view america first and maga as being is the the movement for
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the americans themselves against the deep state against foreign interest against boondoggle
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invasions of the Middle East done by some random country over there. We view MAGA as being against
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that kind of thing. Trump seems to have been the person who campaigned on no foreign wars,
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no boondoggle. I vocally supported Donald Trump in all three of the elections. Same here. I mean,
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we were massive chillies for him because he represented what we wished we would get over
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here, which thankfully we seem to have. But what we were supporting was the agenda that he ran on,
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which was no Middle Eastern wars, and taking all that political capital
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but the political capital was obviously spent elsewhere
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because the deportations have been nothing like what Biden let in.
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So for us, we're criticising from a position of love and disappointment.
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But before I continue, I should mention that we are having a live event on Saturday,
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We're going to be debating Star Wars, and there will be a protest.
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Anyway, so let's go through a timeline of what's been going on.
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Trump at some point threatened Iran with the end of its civilization
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if they don't comply with what he asked them to do.
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And he had been demanding a total and complete surrender from Iran, etc., etc.
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But when he threatened to erase Iranian civilization,
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the Iranians said that they had closed all diplomatic contact.
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it turns out that actually what had happened was that there were some communications with
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the Pakistanis. And you could see from the Pakistani prime minister's Twitter account,
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X account, that he was sent a text saying, draft Pakistan PM's message on X,
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Because they were stupid enough to just post the entire thing on Twitter.
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You literally copy-pasted it and then edited it.
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show edit history, it'll show you what did it say before.
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So this is really interesting because there's no way
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someone within the pakistani administration writes pakistani pm's message on x yeah that's
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an external message yes and there's no way it came from the iranians either so this is going to have
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been sent to them by the americans yes yeah please post this and so he posts this asking trump for
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some uh de-escalation and lo and behold uh trump obliges and says that there are going to be talks
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based on this and the talks will be centered on iran's 10 point proposal right now which is
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extraordinary of true because those i mean for the 10 points were drafted by iran they're i mean
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they're all the iran wish list they are that's the wish list for iran that they won't be attacked
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again permanent end of the war end of israeli strikes in lebanon lifting all sanctions i mean
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that is massive so basically end the war completely on the current lines which obviously
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favors iran and iran would impose fees on transiting hurmuz uh split with oman the omanis
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are saying that the that they're not going to do that but we will see well i guess i guess um iran
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have lost if they can't get that point over the line have to keep all the fees themselves i i
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And the fees will finance Iranian reconstruction.
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So basically Iran gets total sovereignty over Hormuz.
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And gets to charge people for the privilege.
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Which is kind of how Turkey operates with the, I think, the Montreux Convention over the Straits of the Bosphorus and the Dardanelle.
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The Turks technically could charge fees, but they don't.
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But they have the right to say, you're not allowed to pass.
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And if it's a time of war, they won't allow any military vessels to pass.
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And they will apply that across the board.
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And Trump said that this will be the basis of the negotiations.
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Apparently, according to Trump, this is a statement from Iran, from the Iranian foreign minister,
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acknowledging the 15 points asked for by trump right and what trump's 15 points trump's 15 points
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are essentially no nuclear enrichment end of the ballistic missile program or heavy restrictions on
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it uh full opening of the strait of humus without any restrictions pretty much the antithesis of
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what's here right so they have the diametrically opposite yes and trump's like yeah so we can begin
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I love that Iran also tweets like Donald Trump.
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via coordination with Iran's armed forces.
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to blow them up if they try to go through the strait
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Do we have any other source for this Iranian statement
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So there seems to have been some confusion here.
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It seems that the UAE attacked some oil facilities in Iran.
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And the Iranians responded by attacking oil facilities in the UAE and Kuwait.
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Because Kuwait is where most American ground forces are located,
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and the Iranians have been making a point of absolutely hammering, in particular, Kuwait and the UAE.
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Because if there is a ceasefire along the 10 points, that means that they have to pay the Iranians for every barrel of oil that they export.
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That means that they've all been forced to accept that Iran is the new regional hegemon.
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The UAE is deeply allied to the Israelis on every level.
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and their view is that if that happens they might they might cease to exist as an independent state
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because either the saudis or the iranians will take them right yeah okay which is the big fear
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of all of the small states in the gulf i was going to make a glib comment about them being
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basically fictional countries um they know that yeah yeah yeah they kind of are but well they are
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But like, you know, you'd think Donald Trump, your protector, says, right, no more.
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They're trying to keep Trump in the region because the 10 points include an American withdrawal from the region.
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Now, Trump is saying that they're going to be hanging around the Middle East generally.
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that they might split the toll fees with the Iranians,
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He can't stop Trump the businessman, though, can he?
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I mean, if Iran can charge a single dollar per ship,
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Or even a dollar per ship, that is the principle conceded.
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which works out about a dollar per barrel,
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you can't spin that any other way than an Iranian win.
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and just hanging around in order to make sure everything goes well.
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I hate to say it, but that's the language of someone
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and is just going to step back and let things take their place.
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And he's also saying that he's ready to resume the war
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Because there's so many parties involved in this region.
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Is it a ceasefire if the US isn't shooting at Iran
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because they would have taken out the biggest military.
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And now they'll have time to just smack around everybody else.
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Even if it's Iran and Israel and the UAE going at it,
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That's not like 10 million population against Iran's 90 million.
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I mean, the whole thing with Israel is always like,
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oh, we're going to bring in America, right?
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And if America says, right, we're staying out of it,
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well, they're in their own trouble, aren't they?
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And so the Pakistanis and the Iranians are saying that the ceasefire includes Lebanon,
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where the Israelis are waging a war against Hezbollah.
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And we haven't posted this yet, but as we were speaking,
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the Israelis launched the biggest wave of airstrikes against Lebanon
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Right. So the Israelis are not honouring the ceasefire either.
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Exactly. So the Israelis and the Emiratis are both trying to make sure
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that the ceasefire doesn't happen because it seems to be entirely favorable to iran because it is
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incredibly favorable to iran do we know if iran has has since this apparent ceasefire has begun
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do we know if iran has fired missiles at israel uh in the first hour after the ceasefire yes but
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not yet but but not since okay and so that could be delayed communications whatever my view is that
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because they're attacking Hezbollah this heavily,
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the Iranians are going to fire a big salvo at the Israelis
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at some point today or in the next couple of days.
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well, either it's a full ceasefire or it isn't.
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And if it isn't, then the Iranians will bring in the Houthi
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And so the amount of pressure, economically speaking,
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It's really weird how Star Wars is surprisingly apt
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as an analogy for all of this go on well just this is literally the sand people uh getting
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involved on behalf of the rebels against the empire but anyway like so like how how is it that
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iran still have so many missiles exactly because they built these massive underground missile
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cities right that are designed to take a bunch of blows from b-2s and b-52s right and keep on
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functioning that have gaps and so on to make sure that a blow on one location doesn't collapse the
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whole thing. And then the Americans try to shut the tunnels in and mine the area. But like aerial
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mining, you just drop a bomb that drops landmines. But then the Iranians keep reopening the tunnel
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entrances and firing again. And what are they going to be doing over the next two weeks? They're
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going to be reopening all of the tunnel entrances so that if the war does resume they can start with
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the same kind of massive salvo that they kicked the war off with right okay so the the iranians
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aren't going to run out of missiles anytime soon i don't think that that's going to happen and also
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doesn't iran have an open supply line to turkmenistan well there's so so chinese and russian
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drones can still get in so there are stories that they're making drones in turkmenistan that the
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The Iranians are making drones in Turkmenistan, which is a kind of Russian-Chinese protectorate.
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And then the Belt and Road Initiative has a major terminus in Kazakhstan on the Caspian Sea.
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And then there is a connection between Iran and Russia, Volgograd, through the Caspian as well.
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So the Iranians have an open supply line to China and Russia.
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Well, the Americans literally can't intercede in.
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Not unless they really want to provoke Russians
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And the land route can't be, like it's a land route,
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It would be a hell of an air mission going in that deep
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They've attacked the Iranian ports on the Caspian once,
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but apparently they subsequently received a Russian warning
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so it doesn't look very good shall we say and hezbollah adhered to the ceasefire they've stopped
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firing but the israelis are pummeling lebanon more than they did since the war began but aren't
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there israeli troops actually inside lebanon yes i've seen tanks yes so so i mean it's one thing
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having a ceasefire when you don't fire into another country yes but i mean that's quite
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restrained if you're not firing at foreign troops that are actually inside your country and they're
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not doing that because they want to stick to the ceasefire and force the israelis out so yeah but
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israel do not want this this piece to take hold not in the least because for them it is the
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beginning of the full american exit from the middle east and that's what they're afraid of
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because then everybody around them is going to gang up against them.
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And after seeing this war, if you're Egypt, if you're Turkey,
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even if you're Saudi Arabia, and obviously if you're Iran,
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Well, I suppose that kind of answers my point then,
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because even though the Israeli troops are still with inside Lebanon,
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oh yeah, we are observing the ceasefire and actually observe it.
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Safe in the knowledge that there's a 100% chance the Israelis won't.
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for the space of a few hours on Wednesday morning
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the Israeli saber rattling about Turkey, in fact.
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the impetus to get nuclear weapons has just shot oh yeah yes if i was erdogan yeah that'd be top of
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my list what else are you doing and what was he doing two days ago he was showing off next to a
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ballistic missile with a 1500 kilometer range erdogan was erdogan right a uh i think it's
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called tufan or something like that and he's bragging about it and now it's in serial production
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just like the iranian ballistic missiles as regional powers go i mean isn't isn't
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turkey even bigger stronger than military than egypt uh they have a believe a million men
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in total yeah and they are the second largest army in nato after only the united states okay
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right so yeah i mean they are have a decent navy unlike the egyptians yeah and they have a good
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uh military manufacturing uh sector so they i mean you can you can see why israel wants to take
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them out yes but i mean it's i mean we've all seen the articles in the jerusalem post you know
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turkey's next and all the politicians saying is turkey's next i mean but i mean that is just a
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complete non-starter now now it's a complete non-starter it's also a very mountainous country
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as well isn't it so it's a very mountainous country so anatolia and and persia are built
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like fortresses yeah so like it's that's why the wars between them happen in syria and iraq
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So can we talk about the infamous tweet quickly?
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Because, of course, I logged on to Twitter yesterday,
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because I saw people freaking out on the left and right,
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And by the infamous tweet, you mean the whole civilization?
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as soon as i saw it i was just okay this is this is donald trump this is the sort of thing trump
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says when he's not getting his way yes ramps up the rhetoric to ridiculous degrees when he's not
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getting what he wants out of negotiations yes whatever his stated goals are and for some reason
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a lot of people are still taking this uh literally but not seriously right so obviously i didn't think
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that literally donald trump i mean a lot of people say oh see donald trump didn't nuke iran so yeah
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but nobody thought he was actually going to nuke iran right yep yeah here's here's the tweet a
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whole civilization will die tonight probably never to be back brought back again i don't want it to
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happen but probably will however now that we have complete and total regime change we're different
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smarter and less radicalized minds prevail maybe something revolutionarily wonderful can happen
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who knows we'll find out tonight one of the most important moments in the long and complex history
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of the world 47 years of extortion corruption and death will finally end god bless the great
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people of iran now this this is such typical trumpian rhetoric about trying to manifest
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rhetorically in new reality yes to show people no look like there's there's there's the stick
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but there's also the carrot and you know here's an off-ramp so the stick doesn't come but it's like
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okay the problem is everyone's calling you taco because they always know you're gonna yeah back
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out at the last minute because this is a persuasion tactic and not actually a serious
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commitment of what you want to do well i will give them credit for this i mean you know some
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people saying does this mean nukes because if you read the first sentence you know whole
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civilization will die tonight that strongly implies nukes yes but then as you go on and
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read the rest of it i mean what this really is it is a kind of a masterful bit of ambiguity this
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this tweet taken in its entirety could mean anything it could mean you yes could mean
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negotiation it could be in an off-ramp i mean who the hell knows what it means yeah he he could
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come out and say yeah what i was talking about is the civilization of the the mullahs and the
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ayatollah's regime yes die tonight never to be brought back but a free iran will spring out for
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he could he could literally manipulate into anything which is why i was just like i saw it
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and everyone was freaking out i was like no not today you know i'm sorry i've got things i need
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to do around the house the kids are whining you know like yes i was about i was on the freaking
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out camp because the reason this happened no but but the the reason this happened was because
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he we had reached a point in the escalation where the energy infrastructure of the entire gulf
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including iran was going to get erased and so we got very close to the point of no return
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whereby now okay in six months something like that you might return to some normalcy with
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some stuff taking another couple of years had this continued down this path it would have been
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the destruction of the main facilities that allow any oil to be extracted meaning that this
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energy gets shut in for five ten years which would have been and you're talking there about
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the reciprocation effect as well they would have destroyed their energy infrastructure they would
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destroyed the rest of the energy infrastructure and also the desalination plant so not only do
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you get a permanent reduction in global energy capacity you also get an enormous refugee crisis
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in the middle east yes and so he got it to that point of escalation but because the iranians were
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able to keep retaliating in kind he climbed down that but the thing is what i hit what i read in
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this is the climb down yes right everyone got really fixated on the first sentence right but
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i was paying attention to the who knows in block capital the reason why i my response is primarily
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about the first sentence is because um yes it's more likely that it's going to be the second part
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yeah but i am asymmetrically concerned with the first part yes even though it's low let's say
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that the nuke thing is a is a two percent possibility and the rest of it is a 98 possibility
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well I'm still going to put my energy into saying
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uh that trump's been playing right but there are limits to it sure i i totally agree um but that's
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and trump has discovered the limits in iran's 10 demands yes as in no no we know you're bluffing
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yes we and and we are maniacs ourselves yes like we are legitimately we think every single one of
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us goes straight to heaven the second you bomb us right so we're going to do we we actually can
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hold the line here we've got our stocks we're we're able to strike your infrastructure we're
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able to cause you massive cascading problems yes and you all you can do is bluster on truth social
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right that's basically what i read from this and the war ended because the iranians demonstrated
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that they have escalation dominance yes because they can cause far more damage to the world economy
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than and are willing to take the damage that is meted out to them because they are actually
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lunatics yes they gave trump everything on the nuclear issue before the war started
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then the war happened anyway it was hard to see why so they switched from reasonable mode to
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lunatic mode yes i mean genuinely it was it was hard to see what the point of this war was in the
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first place i mean we'll get to it in the second segment because now we actually know yes spoiler
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it's israel um like the and for some reason trump's marriage to promoting their interest
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but from an american point of view this was completely unnecessary and hasn't done trump
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any favors and has just entrenched the opposition well this this comes back to your first point
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about the the schism with the american right and actually i mean i don't think it's quite as clear
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as that lots of the american right have been against the war all the way through yeah there
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are there are lots of good people but the re the reason we're against it because we it's not because
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we're backing iran is because we think it's bad for america yeah now don't get me wrong right if
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if and and not just this is bad for america is really poorly organized as well yes right there
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was no plan there was no plan they believe that daniel is bs there was there was an israeli plan
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which is which was drag america drag america into a 30-year conflict yeah but the the thing is like
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if we're going to do this, we have to do it properly.
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It's just you thought the Iranians would crack
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okay, yeah, no, we don't want to get bombed to death.
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Or that there would be a massive uprising from below.
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You know, this whole thing was really poorly thought out.
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But it was obviously not Trump's actual idea to do this.
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The brain blob that sat on the side of his bloody head.
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And from that, you know, he's now for all the Gulf states,
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uh because the order that exists and the borders that exist in the gulf only exist because
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the british empire handed the baton to the america under western hegemony exactly and
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this is the thing about like paddling in the rubicon so no if you're going to do something
00:30:00.300
okay fair enough do it seriously exactly yeah like don't don't take half measures i mean the
00:30:05.220
guy in south korea who's now in jail for half staging a coup exactly like you know like it's
00:30:10.740
all the same thing okay any dip in the rudiment yeah yeah if if you want to overthrow the iranian
00:30:15.580
regime i don't care i don't care about the iranian regime just if you if you mess it up
00:30:21.940
what you do is break the myth of american supremacy yes that's what the americans have
00:30:28.700
to understand here right and so i now i now i suppose it's a good time to discuss this because
00:30:32.920
so throughout history you get um people of remarkable military power right all throughout
00:30:39.760
history and they win and they win and they win and what this does in the minds of their opponents
00:30:44.740
they look at the over-awing might of this conquering army with this amazing general and
00:30:49.940
they think right we can't beat that so we don't fight yeah yes and what that does is lead to more
00:30:54.620
victories and so the myth of invincibility builds around this general and his army until one day
00:31:00.740
they do lose well it's important that your enemy believe it but that you don't exactly exactly
00:31:06.900
right that precisely you don't believe the myth of your own invisibility because then you get
00:31:11.000
complacent and all it takes is one small reverse not a catastrophic defeat not the main army gets
00:31:17.120
crushed by an enemy army no no no what it is is like you know 5 000 man detachment gets routed
00:31:22.760
and has to run back and then suddenly everyone's like oh right no they can be beaten yes right
00:31:28.120
okay right now we now we realize that resistance is possible and as soon as the myth of invincibility
00:31:33.980
shatters then the whole thing starts collapsing i was worried that biden's disastrous retreat from
00:31:39.160
afghanistan was going to be that but i think they kind of got a pass on it because biden was so
00:31:44.440
befuddled that you could say okay well it's not really an america's defeat it wasn't a military
00:31:48.900
defeat at all like the taliban weren't like taking cities or something taliban the americans are
00:31:53.600
leaving oh right should we yeah should we get should we go in oh i think now's the time guys
00:31:57.340
and the afghan army dissolved yeah exactly it wasn't sort of disappeared you know it wasn't
00:32:03.120
american weakness that caused battles whereas here what's different is that the iranians were
00:32:09.380
able to extract an enormous price but they were able to not from the americans themselves exactly
00:32:14.980
not from the americans themselves by inflicting mass casualties on the americans but from what
00:32:20.340
matters to the united states which is the world economy yes and the the americans there reveal
00:32:24.920
the limits of their own power right the achilles heel the vulnerability they have as the global
00:32:29.940
hegemon they have to be concerned about the nature of the global economic system because it's the
00:32:34.760
american global economic system after this it's entirely possible the uranians will be trading
00:32:40.160
oil in one or whatever it is yes right so that's not good that's really not good for i'll just say
00:32:46.220
for any haters in the comment of course we recognize that the u.s is the strongest most
00:32:50.400
powerful military in the world yeah no question about it it's not invulnerable and it's not
00:32:54.720
unlimited no and that's the thing that americans i think have in their heads well and also the
00:32:58.620
military itself is propped up by as you said the economy yes and if the economy is being hurt and
00:33:03.120
the dollar system is being hurt well that's just delayed effect impact on the military and as far
00:33:08.360
said if someone has escalation dominance as in no we can ruin everything for you even if you
00:33:14.920
eventually break us then that's where you can see donald trump was pulled back and gone okay okay
00:33:20.660
we'll come to the negotiating table there you have it exposed the weakness yes and like the point of
00:33:27.160
the use of force is to achieve a political outcome yes if you can't achieve 101 exactly
00:33:32.900
if you can't achieve that political outcome then you can drop as many bombs as you like but it
00:33:39.640
doesn't change the fact that you're trying to achieve something in particular and especially
00:33:43.660
as the the iranians are the worst target to approach with that attitude because they have
00:33:58.480
It couldn't have played into their hands better, frankly.
00:34:13.600
He would have turned 87 on the 19th of April, I think.
00:34:18.360
couldn't couldn't have a better time as you pointed out earlier couldn't be a better time to be a
00:34:22.520
martyr oh if if i decided i wanted to become a martyr i'd be like yeah 86 and with cancer that's
00:34:28.740
a good moment yeah yeah but the so just this as you know one of the sort of military history nerds
00:34:34.780
i'm just looking at this with genuine concern because the the thing is it's not that this
00:34:40.920
means america is beaten right no or anything like that but what this means is america faces much
00:34:46.020
more stiff resistance when it wants to do something else somewhere else and that means some
00:34:50.960
marxist group in latin america yeah whatever some bunch of gangsters in mexico yeah some other
00:34:57.000
insurgency is going to realize if we impose a heavy enough political price we can get what we
00:35:03.920
want politically without winning a single battle yes and and also how the vietnamese won they
00:35:10.280
didn't win a single military engagement against the united states they won the war yeah so it's
00:35:16.480
this inability to see the other guy's perspective but also that is at heart here what what this also
00:35:22.980
does is makes the next thing the american military have to do so much harder yes because yes you will
00:35:29.200
you will meet much more confident and organized resistance you will beat it but you'll have to
00:35:35.600
put a lot more into it and so where you could have achieved it with you know a sort of like 20
00:35:40.520
energy expenditure now you've got to put a 40 energy expenditure in and your your energy is
00:35:45.880
not unlimited so now that's energy you have to direct from somewhere else i mean didn't they
00:35:49.960
have to take troops from like the china sea and like south korea air defense systems from south
00:35:55.140
korea right which was a huge political problem for the south koreans of course it was because
00:35:59.780
the north koreans are just like oh what's happening here now the south koreans can build their own
00:36:03.880
air defenses and they're good but taking away the american ones but the point is that you now have
0.61
00:36:10.200
to start this will happen in other places right the next time some trouble comes up you're going
00:36:15.740
to have to read redivert more energy than you thought you would have had to have done and this
00:36:20.400
is why the myth of invincibility is very useful and frivolously squandering it like this on behalf
00:36:26.860
of israel is not good for the americans in the audience i'm speaking in your for your advice
00:36:33.700
for your good here. This was a strategic mistake in the long run for your republic.
0.85
00:36:39.640
Because for the Israelis, it wasn't just the nuclear program that they're afraid of.
0.69
00:36:43.360
They know that Iran can be deterred. The issue was the ballistic missile program and the drone
0.70
00:36:48.500
program, which was spreading throughout the region, firing from so many locations that it
00:36:54.020
would overwhelm air defenses, and getting to a point where Israel can be conventionally beaten,
00:37:00.600
or beaten back rather that's a great point because i mean one thing contained one thing
0.62
00:37:05.100
sorry what the israelis don't want is to be contained because they are deeply committed
0.62
00:37:10.680
to the greater israel project and they're in the process of trying to expel the palestinians of the
00:37:15.160
west bank trying to expand their borders in lebanon they've already expanded them in syria
00:37:20.080
etc etc and they've actually published pieces saying that egypt should be next oh have they
00:37:26.000
yes right well and turkey and turkey turkey yeah i mean why not so it they were getting to a stage
00:37:33.040
of such unhinged hubris yeah and the thing is as well didn't the iron dome basically fail
00:37:39.160
like i heard so much or six layers to the to the israeli missile defense system yeah they ran out
00:37:45.580
of the best interceptors right the lowest quality interceptors they still have and they ran out of
00:37:51.620
some of the mid-level interceptors or not ran not fully ran out they had to become selective in what
00:37:57.660
they intercepted yeah because they were getting close to running out but also isn't isn't iron
00:38:02.920
dome downstream of a whole bunch of u.s um radar installations so there's very early on patriot
00:38:08.720
uh arrow uh david sling and then iron dome iron dome is actually the lowest one i see but the
00:38:16.820
point is it wasn't the complete protection that i think had been built up it's not invulnerability
00:38:22.720
yeah of the people in anticipation for this war and i think obviously people didn't expect the
00:38:27.880
continual barrage iran was going to be able to actually put out i mean i was surprised frankly
00:38:32.340
you know like i i honestly thought that okay a couple of weeks maybe but like they're still doing
00:38:37.860
it so you know iran wasn't a paper tiger right the the regime deeply entrenched and america has
00:38:45.060
wasted a huge amount of reputational damage on what seems to just be a boondoggle here which
00:38:51.840
was done with very very poor planning because i mean if there's if there's one thing that you want
00:38:58.280
in war it's a really good plan it won't survive contact with the enemy but you'll you know have
00:39:03.840
contingencies have have have genuine sort of like another thing is what were trump's war aims here
00:39:13.000
Bomb the Iranian leadership and get them to capitulate.
0.91
00:39:18.880
Well, we're starting to get some details on this
00:39:20.460
on the New York Times article that we've come to.
00:39:22.420
Yeah, yeah, but the Iranians have been fighting this war
00:39:27.680
And so anyway, just, I'm, like, this was not wise.
1.00
00:39:32.840
And now the United States will work closely with Iran,
0.98
00:39:40.460
it hasn't yeah what i did it went from ayatollah khamenei to ayatollah khamenei yes there will be
00:39:47.460
no enrichment of uranium the iranian supreme national security council is saying that they're
00:39:52.600
going to continue enriching uranium yeah uh there's going to be limits on the ballistic
00:39:59.120
no not going to happen we are and we will be taking tariffs and sanctions really talking
00:40:06.880
Actually, he can't because Congress will make sure
00:40:10.240
that there is no sanctions relief for Iran.
0.87
00:40:16.860
how is sanctions relief on Iran not just a pure Iranian win?
00:40:20.640
How many decades has Iran been sanctioned by America?
00:40:33.020
And so, like, this is definitely an L, unfortunately.
0.89
00:40:37.760
It is a strategic loss for the Americans because now Iran is the new regional hegemon.
0.82
00:40:44.300
If this ceasefire is implemented at anything close to the 10 points,
0.91
00:40:52.080
Even if they only get like one or two of those points through, that's, I mean, Iran,
0.69
00:40:56.580
I mean, I've seen Iran's Twitter feeds, you know, the Iranian media and all the state
00:41:01.760
organs posting ai videos of trump with a white flag and stuff like this and to be honest with
00:41:06.800
you from their perspective you can see why they're beating their chest yes yeah they say they're
00:41:10.000
literally going to go around to everyone in the region say we beat america yes don't test us
00:41:14.660
we're in charge now that's and the thing is and now you have to pay reparations because you allowed
00:41:19.200
your territory to be used against us which is technically under the united nations aggression
00:41:24.740
what's the uae gonna say about that like good point which is why they're trying to extend the
00:41:29.840
war yeah they're trying they're trying to the uae and israel are trying to extend the war because
00:41:35.140
they realize that this is an l they need to force an american victory and if that's not coming
0.69
00:41:41.000
they're all in trouble well they're going to get swallowed by saudi aren't they so
00:41:45.480
yep someone's getting swallowed by someone the thing is just the borders are not going to stay
00:41:51.000
the same no the borders are not going to last five or ten years the borders of the region are
00:41:55.560
going to be redrawn how is the question yeah i mean just just to be clear this is actually
00:42:00.540
historically incredibly normal yes like yes historically for for literally like the last
00:42:06.820
2 000 years iran being the persian empire under various uh dynasties uh just controlled essentially
00:42:14.480
from uh syria all the way over to pakistan afghanistan right that was just there and big
00:42:21.820
chunks of the gulf are different yeah yeah like if you know the it's it's called the persian gulf
00:42:26.300
for a reason yeah the boundaries in that fuzzy sometimes it's higher or lower but that's roughly
00:42:31.680
the region from like the edge of syria over to there that was normal for the persians to have
00:42:36.760
that as their state yes so this current like situation is artificial basically exactly and
00:42:45.040
it's ending if the ceasefire is implemented it's ending yeah should we go through some super chats
00:42:51.040
yes people have some opinions on this um sigil stone says uh such a defeat iran must have really
00:42:58.280
smashed the u.s mainland and sunk many u.s ships that's not sigil stone the only measure of defeat
00:43:02.820
that's the problem right this is what i'm saying about uh the the the loss for america here is the
00:43:10.100
loss of the aura of invincibility this is an argument i often see put forward which is to say
00:43:14.460
well we killed more of them and therefore we won yeah well are you sure you want to make that the
00:43:19.160
standard because because if if that is the standard the british won in 1776 well yeah so
00:43:25.580
but it's and germany would have won world war ii yes the the thing is so just then what what you're
00:43:32.120
this isn't you're not fighting uh a gargantuan land war against uh a fairly equally matched
00:43:39.620
power in europe right like that's that's what happens when the french take germany or the
00:43:44.060
germany take france right that's not what's happening here what you're trying to do is
00:43:48.360
essentially um create a new settlement in the uh extremities of your empire and you've just
00:43:55.880
failed to do that right you were trying to achieve a political aim yes previously the threat was if
00:44:02.580
you don't give us what we want this is what we will do to you militarily and it will work yeah
00:44:06.900
now actually the military option won't work therefore you will be challenged more often
00:44:14.620
on political questions, leading to more military escalation. That's what happened.
00:44:19.600
Can I quickly address a point in the chat? I mean, Jill Bug says, you know, yes for us,
00:44:24.080
cheering against us again. I'm going to assume you're American. All three of us have been very
00:44:28.160
clear. We are not cheering for Iran. We actually all very much support the United States. We think
0.95
00:44:35.580
that getting into this left you only with bad options. And it almost certainly has got to the
00:44:41.500
point where you're going to have to take a bad option that is not cheering against you that is
00:44:45.740
cheering for not getting into the situation in the first place and we're also trying to help you
00:44:49.880
understand why this has happened yes how you can make the best of it as well um we like unfortunately
00:44:56.920
you can't this sort of argument that we're cheering is you know that's you trying to protect your own
00:45:02.140
ego from what has really happened here right and unfortunately we're going to have to force you to
00:45:06.940
look it in the face because this wasn't just the unvarnished win that you'd like it to be
00:45:12.440
you've got to be realistic about that take it from a post-hegemonic power uh minor power that
00:45:18.080
barely has a navy uh you you get here in these sort of small steps but eventually you arrive at
00:45:25.420
that point um axis eternal says guys iran does not have escalation dominance the us just won't
00:45:34.020
actually use this escalation options well i don't uh i don't actually if you were to nuke them
00:45:39.300
as you are suggesting yeah every other power mid-sized power will build nuclear weapons
00:45:46.620
yes the turks the egyptians and the saudis and the algerians and a bunch of others will go to
00:45:53.360
pakistan and say here's a billion dollars give us nukes yeah it's just not on the table right
00:45:59.600
you're not nuking anyone that's not going to happen um so i don't agree with that and but also
0.92
00:46:06.360
okay let's assume you didn't nuke iran well the iranians would still ruin the global economy
0.88
00:46:10.680
and cause 50 years of misery for everyone like so it's you know i don't know you know
0.96
00:46:16.840
okay that'd be bad for iran but iran would make it bad for the entire world
00:46:20.560
so i can't see how that uh yep sigil says they expected iran to crack so what carl is saying is
00:46:28.460
they're not like you and you don't understand them yeah exactly and i've been saying that a
00:46:31.620
lot about a lot of stuff haven't i you know like a lot um orchid says in my opinion this whole
00:46:37.320
affair should have been at most of the two-day bombing that said this is for attacking our
00:46:40.980
people your people yeah and that would have been that could have actually had the intended effect
00:46:45.480
well it did it did back when he dropped the bunker buster exactly right that shut them up
00:46:50.660
exactly like israel and iran exchanging missiles and trump's like no bam big bomb i'm not yeah
00:46:56.040
exactly i'm here i'm i'm literally here's the mediator at that point the regime lost all of
00:47:00.380
its main narratives yes and if it had been left in that state it would have been creaking and what's
00:47:05.460
you got them to rally to the regime yeah and what's really frustrating is that up until this
00:47:11.200
point i have been nothing i've had nothing but glowing praise for trump's foreign interventions
00:47:16.060
yes because they've actually always been really good yes i mean the difference between that last
00:47:20.820
that bunker buster bomb is is that what it was doing is it was dismantling the israeli narrative
00:47:27.540
and said 100% of Iran's nuclear capacity has been destroyed.
00:47:31.860
Therefore, Israel will get back in your box.
0.96
00:47:34.720
And like with the Syrian, back in, what was it, 2018,
00:47:38.500
we struck the Syrian airfields over the chemical weapons.
00:47:47.500
It was the interest for the hegemony of the United States.
00:47:51.760
It was about the credibility of the United States over that issue.
00:47:55.600
Yep. When he said, when you go too far, you sometimes lose credibility, because then you have to say, we're going to talk about their 10 points, not my 15 points.
00:48:05.520
Exactly. And so this not being done for the purposes of the United States, but for the purposes of Israel, has shown that that's a massive Achilles heel in American foreign policy.
00:48:16.480
um so like but if it helps there is a sort of silver lining to all this that we're going to
00:48:23.200
come into in a minute which is actually america first has kind of come out of this better than
00:48:29.360
you might think and but i just want to read through a couple more of these um it's infuriating to see
00:48:33.420
the grifters on both sides of the aisle if any infuriation when trump strikes iran and also when
00:48:38.100
he shows restraint by not striking iran we can't have it both ways here um which is why the first
00:48:44.100
attack was received well here it was brilliant and the second much longer campaign wasn't because
00:48:51.480
we're not grifting guys yeah we're just telling you what what works and what doesn't this is why
00:48:56.900
i was actually in favor of the black bag in madera so yeah that advances american interest
00:49:00.760
get on with it you know that's you know that actually helps you this doesn't my fellow
00:49:05.580
americans who can't see we're being dragged into this war by a certain country against our interest
00:49:08.940
and now seeing the consequences and really disappointing me and honestly i i i agree you
00:49:14.240
know it's like i'm like i've watched a lot of um what i thought were sort of quite credible american
00:49:20.460
commentators on twitter uh kind of soil themselves over this and it's just like look guys this wasn't
00:49:26.660
a thing for the american empire right when when he was bunker busting iran black bagging maduro
00:49:32.760
that was all for the american empire and totally fine and and we supported it and in this war
00:49:37.980
essentially confirmed multipolarity yes this war made multipolarity become a real and tangible
00:49:44.640
thing as opposed to a talking point well so should we go for that in fact yeah um so i mean there's
00:49:52.760
this is how to raise this there's a very interesting article in the new york times
00:49:58.540
and it is actually worth everybody taking the time to go and read it i mean i wouldn't normally say
00:50:04.600
this about the new york times but essentially this is positioning from within the white house
00:50:10.160
about who is carrying the bag um for what's happened in iran now there's there's a there's
00:50:15.720
a huge number of things to pull out from this but it's clearly from an insider so it starts off
00:50:19.660
talking about a whole series of high level meetings were held in the white house um between
00:50:26.000
senior officials and one of the points that um i i would make from those meetings i mean it goes
00:50:31.460
right down to the levels of who sat in what chair can i actually um bring it up and read some of it
00:50:36.180
out because yeah absolutely it's actually kind of remarkable wherever the mouse is well the point
00:50:40.560
i was going to make about um you know the level of detail that goes into yeah this is leaks from
00:50:46.040
the inside oh 100 i mean this is coming from a book that's going to be coming out about this
00:50:50.560
so whoever had written this was either in the room or got this information from someone who
00:50:55.180
was in the room right but look at look at how this begins a black suv carrying prime minister
00:51:00.040
benjamin netanyahu so the only person who's named on the very first line is netanyahu yes uh he'd
00:51:07.540
been pressing for months for the united states to agree to a major assault on iran which is inside
00:51:12.080
a little ceremony uh he's set he's sat in the cabinet room and the situation whatever they call
00:51:17.500
it right trump sits down but not in his usual position at the head of the room's mahogany
00:51:21.620
conference table instead he took a seat on one side facing large screens mounted opposite the
00:51:26.540
wall mr netanyahu sat on the other side directly opposite the president appearing on the screen
00:51:30.580
behind netanyahu was david barnier the director of mossad israel's foreign uh israel's foreign
00:51:37.160
intelligence agency as well as the israeli military officials arrayed visually behind
00:51:41.440
mr netanyahu they created the image of a wartime leader surrounded by his team well yeah it also
00:51:46.760
kind of creates the image of i'm here to tell you what you need to do yeah we we have all arrived
00:51:54.840
and they carry on about how they made their pitch.
00:52:00.720
And none of Trump's staff are actually very impressed by it, right?
00:52:06.280
They threw Hexeth under the bus as the guy being most enthusiastic about it,
00:52:11.580
whereas Susie Wiles and Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance especially
00:52:18.120
are placed on record as having been deeply opposed to this.
00:52:27.340
And the thing is, if this was a success, everybody would be taking credit.
00:52:36.040
Instead, they're throwing Pete Hexeth under the bus and blaming Netanyahu, meaning that it was not a success.
00:52:42.000
If it was a political victory, they would have all been saying, it was my idea.
00:52:50.360
I mean, why are people, you know, bigging up Rubio and Vance
00:52:55.900
for having been cautious against it if it was a win?
00:52:59.820
I mean, Israel, Bibi and Hegsef get thrown under the bus in this article.
00:53:07.540
Like, you know, the presentation Netanyahu gives over the next hour
00:53:10.080
would be pivotal in setting the United States and Israel
00:53:14.540
and Trump weighed his options and risks before giving the go-ahead.
00:53:20.040
but it says that Trump basically trusted his instincts
00:53:23.280
whereas everyone else, Vance and Rubio in particular,
00:53:30.780
And Trump was like, no, I think I'm going to do it.
00:53:34.120
and it's actually worked for Trump's favour for a long time
00:53:41.160
And I don't know how persuasive Netanyahu was about this.
00:53:45.940
People point out, well, he's wanted regime change in Iran for decades.
00:54:18.920
I mean, I've got a relevant bit of text on that.
00:54:21.820
So, I mean, after this Israeli plan had been presented,
00:54:28.060
And this is what I mean about who's getting buried on here.
00:54:33.540
Mr. Radcliffe, CIA guy, briefed him on the assessment.
00:54:39.440
the Israeli prime minister's regime change plan.
00:54:48.920
um then there's a whole bunch of other stuff oh then then vance re-enters and uh there's a whole
0.99
00:54:54.920
bit about how vance is is just completely against this um general kane um the president said to
00:55:03.220
general kane general what do you think and uh he said sir in my experience a standard operating
00:55:07.920
procedure for the israelis they oversell their plans they're not well developed they know they
00:55:13.360
need us and that's why they're hard selling and then trump summed it up by saying and this is the
00:55:18.000
bit where he just goes with his gut is is like okay well that's their problem and it was a bit
00:55:22.080
unclear to the people in the room whether he meant it was the israelis problem or the iranians problem
00:55:26.460
the regime change but he was convinced okay yeah i can do i can do the the bombing of ayatollah
00:55:31.640
khamenei um we can do that bit so we're going to go to it and again so i mean there's another bit
00:55:38.020
further down where um again this is backing up general kane he's saying he general kane would
00:55:44.480
constantly ask and then what and trump would often hear only what he wanted to hear now i mean who
00:55:51.260
comes out of his article well jd vance comes out of his article very well rubio rubio comes out of
00:55:57.460
it as very well he comes across as analytical and conditional you know his support was always
00:56:02.880
condition it was always it's always phrased as um you know i i don't think this will work but if
00:56:08.400
this is what you want to do mr president then then i'll back you up on it so that's you know
00:56:13.040
that that makes him sound good uh john ratcliffe from the cia he comes out well well on this um
00:56:19.220
the military guy general kane he comes out mostly well on it because his whole pitch in this is that
00:56:24.900
he said it was a bad idea but i'll do whatever you want boss so again that makes him look loyal but
00:56:29.980
but this this is the key quote here this is standard operating procedure for the israelis
00:56:34.960
and it's completely true i mean how many decades yes has netanyahu been saying we're on the two
00:56:38.840
weeks away from a nuke that was back in the 90s he was saying that it's like oh by the way they're
00:56:43.680
two weeks away yeah okay i've heard this before yes you know they oversell and their plans are
00:56:48.320
not always well developed because as far as the israelis are concerned this will become america's
00:56:52.380
problem it's great yeah no let the israeli plan is to get america involved exactly let them go
00:56:56.820
they don't have to develop the rest of it yeah exactly no america being in a long war is the
00:57:01.180
point exactly because yeah and with a long war with a powerful enemy yeah well great because
00:57:06.080
we're going to have free reign in the region around us to do whatever we want and no one's
00:57:09.520
going to intervene because iran's a bit busy at the moment which is why they're escalating their
00:57:13.020
attacks on the palestinians and including palestinian christians and lebanon i mean the
00:57:18.180
people who come out really badly from the series of leaks i mean i wouldn't say really badly
00:57:21.360
donald trump comes across as being poorly advised more than anything yeah but but even then the
00:57:27.320
advice was good actually from what we see it's it's weirdly his own predilection for netanyahu
00:57:36.900
This does not go after Trump nearly as hard as it could have done.
00:57:42.780
And the reason is, is because this is all based on insider leaks.
00:57:46.220
I mean, it makes the point really on in the, really on in the article,
00:57:49.800
the gathering had been kept deliberately small to guard against leaks.
00:57:54.740
So basically somebody in there has given their blessing to this being leaked.
00:57:58.280
Yeah, well, it's not even a leak, is it, actually?
00:58:01.180
It's kind of a, well, I mean, you know, lead article of New York Times.
00:58:04.800
it's a tell-all yeah i mean if i had to put my money on it i would say that um uh vance and
00:58:11.040
rubio have given the nod to their underlings yeah you can have some very quiet conversations with
00:58:17.720
some journalists and get this out they're basically trying to better position themselves
00:58:21.400
for the 2028 election yeah by saying we had nothing to do with this war but this is actually
00:58:27.160
surprisingly good news for sort of maga and america first actually oh yes yes vance and
00:58:32.780
rubio the two leading lights of trump's administration are not just zio neocons i mean
00:58:39.940
i suppose it's not even completely impossible that trump gave some mild blessing to this
00:58:44.700
because he's not going to run up again for election and maybe he's like okay fine we'll
00:58:48.440
boost up rubio and and the only person i'm absolutely certain did not leak all of this
0.97
00:58:53.320
detail is peter hegseff because he comes across as a bloody idiot in all of this so well he did
0.95
00:58:58.280
in the um you saw the um the was a congressional uh thing where he was just sat there going how
0.99
00:59:05.000
many generals you fired i don't know it's like what do you mean you don't know how many generals
00:59:07.780
you fired it was eight apparently and it's just like come on you should know that it's like why
00:59:12.000
did you fire them well they're serving at trump's pleasure it's like okay but that doesn't explain
00:59:15.040
why you fired them like and the answer is they were obviously like no this would be crazy yeah
00:59:19.760
um if you i mean if you want to be in the room when um hard-hitting things are discussed i
00:59:25.860
suggested buy a ticket for the Lotus Eater's live event,
00:59:42.220
you know, claiming it as a win for the United States.
00:59:48.520
President Trump said it would be a four to six week operation.
00:59:55.520
It's kind of embarrassing, though, where it's like, look, man,
00:59:59.460
we support Trump, we support America, we want America to do well,
01:00:05.160
but this is sort of sounding a bit North Korean, you know?
01:00:10.760
It's like, the success of our military created maximum leverage,
01:00:15.200
allowing Trump and the teams to engage in tough negotiations,
01:00:21.880
so the the the americans are debating amongst themselves as to whether this is a win or a loss
01:00:29.280
and that debate is looking extremely lively um at the moment with you know arguments on both sides
01:00:36.160
and i think you know broadly where we're saying we're probably more on the the tucker side of
01:00:40.620
things um and i mean even um was it alex jones alex jones called for the 25th amendment to be
01:00:47.740
invoked for a trump yeah i mean i even i don't go that far so no he went way harder than i think
01:00:51.860
he should but he was on what i think is the right side of the argument broadly yeah so anyway the
01:00:57.260
americans are arguing amongst themselves and it's a it's a question in in that collective
01:01:02.060
consciousness about whether this was a win or a loss i can tell you where there is no doubt that
01:01:06.520
this is a loss uh no doubt whatsoever this is where the surprising win for america first comes
01:01:10.920
out right yeah um this is um the former prime minister of israel there's never been such a
0.84
01:01:17.860
political disaster in all of our history israel wasn't i mean there was that roman bit i guess but
01:01:23.840
i mean there have been a few terrible disasters in israeli history actually yeah so i mean okay
01:01:33.140
so the babylonian bit before that then the syrian bit before that then the egyptian bit before that
01:01:40.300
Yeah, actually, the Egyptian bit wasn't good either.
1.00
01:01:42.380
Yeah, there have been a few bumps on the road,
1.00
01:01:49.260
Okay, so there has never been such a political disaster
01:02:07.660
um the military carried out everything asked of it public demonstrated its amazing resilience but
01:02:12.300
netanyahu publicly failed and strategically every goal that he set himself and i mean it's it's not
01:02:18.120
just that area former chief of staff netanyahu lied he promised a historic victory security for
01:02:24.280
generations and in practice we got one of the most severe strategic failures israel has ever known
01:02:29.800
um i mean there's lots and you might say okay well those guys are opposition politicians in
01:02:35.560
israel and therefore you can you can fully expect it um we've been scrolling through israeli twitter
01:02:42.520
this morning and it's grim oh yeah because the thing is they can see the reality of the situation
01:02:49.740
is yes now iran is the regional hegemon and america's myth of invincibility is shattered
01:02:54.660
right yeah exactly this is bad news and if you want to know you know if you're sat in like
01:03:01.000
you know Oklahoma or something debating the pros and the cons yes well yeah you can do that because
0.72
01:03:05.660
you're in a nice air-conditioned room with no danger on either side but if you're in Israel
0.82
01:03:09.160
right now actually yes very real and very much on I mean Nick Florentis and Cat Turd can go with
01:03:15.460
each other all day long you know nothing is going to happen to them if you're in Tel Aviv it's it's
01:03:20.760
a it's a somewhat different story yes so I mean we take you through um you know some of the some
01:03:27.140
of Hebrew Twitter, when it would look like Iran might get nuked.
01:03:34.180
Biblical times are going to happen at midnight.
01:03:37.660
There was an element of excitement when it might be Iran getting nuked.
01:03:40.740
And the thing is, you can tell they got so high on their own supply here.
01:03:43.740
And I get the feeling that Netanyahu was as well
01:03:46.880
and the entire sort of Israeli government.
0.91
01:03:49.320
This is a complete rug pull as far as the Israelis are concerned.
0.98
01:03:57.040
Yeah, but once the ceasefire had been announced,
01:03:59.520
he's like, well, the Straits of Hormuz was open even before the war.
01:04:03.560
I didn't sit in a shelter for 40 days or nights
01:04:17.040
For 30 years, he's been messing with our heads about Iran.
01:04:19.580
Finally, there's a chance to do something about it and he fails.
01:04:22.180
For 20 years, he's been complaining that Hezbollah wasn't disarmed.
01:04:24.820
finally has a chance to do something about any fails.
0.74
01:04:27.440
For 17 years, he'd been promising he'd dismantle Hamas.
0.66
01:04:33.020
So this is, I mean, there are pages and pages.
0.99
01:04:40.820
You know, they were hoping for the Stone Age stuff.
1.00
01:04:46.640
Find out about a ceasefire from a missile alert siren, classic.
0.97
01:04:50.780
um may may islam take europe the usa and may the burn world burn already thanks david yeah
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01:04:58.900
appreciate the sentiment uh is it just me or does it feel like defeat no it's not just you
01:05:03.640
um everybody with this israeli flag i think is that kind of sentiment may islam take europe the
01:05:09.880
usa yeah yeah okay um ceasefire is a very bad idea for the future of the iranian people
01:05:32.700
Expressing lack of concern for the Straits of Hormuz
01:05:45.200
Lots of expressing of disappointment about this.
01:05:52.960
And from his perspective, you supposedly did it for him, you know?
01:06:06.220
I don't think, maybe you didn't understand what the Israelis were actually asking for.
01:06:11.480
Because what they were kind of asking for is a million-man ground invasion of Iran
01:06:15.420
to literally expunge, like, debathify Iran from the Mueller's regime.
01:06:26.300
The Israeli logic was, we just need to get you to bomb the Ayatollah,
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01:06:31.780
get into a conflict, and that will inevitably drag you into a 30-year conflict.
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01:06:40.860
And what they actually said is, oh, yeah, this is easy.
01:07:12.520
yeah you know instead of the the two weeks but you know he was like yeah okay fine i'm out
01:07:18.060
doing it um kosher says i don't know how i feel about this um but the next guy's like well this
01:07:24.780
makes me sick and there's just pages and pages of this stuff this will be seen as weakness by
01:07:30.000
the entire middle east trump just shared i can't pronounce that post that actually that he accepted
01:07:35.720
the regime's 10 point proposal yeah that's the thing i i retweeted this but like trump didn't
01:07:40.380
concede to this did he onto it because i i've been following it i logged on like 11 o'clock or
01:07:44.580
something and i see this like and i'm like there's no way like trump has conceded this 10 point
01:07:49.860
proposal because this is it looks like total capitulation if you just accept now i did at
01:07:53.820
the time i didn't realize that he was going to negotiate these things with iran but i mean you
01:07:57.760
know okay uh but like mental and yeah you have that this of course will be seen as weakness by
01:08:03.100
the entire middle east that's because it is more more than just the middle east uh i'm so angry
01:08:08.080
dejected and heartbroken trump instantly went from hero to zero are you disappointed the ceasefire
01:08:13.160
i'm disgusted we were in shelters missiles over our head while millions of innocent iranians lost
01:08:19.100
hope um oh i think we've heard that sorry it seems that the iranians pulled for their own government
01:08:24.200
i don't really accept this kind of oh we're annexing the freedom-loving iranians because
01:08:28.840
we hate the mullahs i don't like the mullahs either but the fact of the matter is they didn't
01:08:33.380
try to overthrow their own government no they didn't you know in interest terrifying comment
01:08:38.480
isn't it yeah um yeah david yerman says whoever guesses in the comments when turkey and egypt
01:08:44.100
conquer us iran drops an atomic bomb on us because because i mean that is the narrative is that you
01:08:49.660
know we do iran and then we need to take on turkey and egypt and and um noam dances just says well
01:08:57.280
we have got the samsung which are yeah israel's secret nuclear weapons
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01:09:02.560
aimed at nuking the whole world or the whole region when they feel threatened enough and so
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01:09:10.720
the the idea being expressed here we would rather burn the whole wide world than yeah compromise
01:09:19.700
with the people who live next to us i have heard reports but because it's just secondhand reports
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01:09:26.360
I've seen speculation that I think it was China and possibly Pakistan have communicated to the to the Israelis that if you nuke Tehran, we will nuke you.
01:09:39.300
I don't know if that's real or not, but I haven't seen that.
01:09:46.020
Since October the 7th, I haven't felt so humiliated as an Israeli as I do tonight.
01:09:53.480
so yeah i mean you know while the americans are arguing about whether this is a win or loss
01:09:57.660
israelis are in absolutely no doubt yeah that this is a loss so overall it might be a bit of
01:10:03.680
a bloody nose for america but actually i don't think it's a terrible event for america first
0.74
01:10:08.540
because no no it's not the zionists are completely routed discredited yes and discredited within the
01:10:19.000
America First administration? The question is, will the neoconservatives try everything that
01:10:25.020
they can to bring Trump back into it? And will Trump listen? I'm sure they will. I'm sure they
01:10:31.640
will. Will he listen to them? Because Congress can do all kinds of things to make sure that Trump
01:10:38.840
can't actually fulfill an agreement, which is what they did with the Obama deal. And so Lindsey
01:10:45.920
graham is now saying well we want any agreement to be ratified by congress and given how many
01:10:51.660
congress members take apac money you know how they're going to vote and so they're going to
01:10:57.840
either they're going to turn either trump goes back into the war or they turn on each other yeah
01:11:04.340
but if if you're like a an america first type person this isn't the most disappointing result
01:11:10.560
actually no and in a way it's kind of similar to our zero seats where it's just you know you have
01:11:15.840
to flush out all of these people and give them a massive i mean i'll jump i'll jump ahead a bit
01:11:20.920
because i mean when you think of american first you often think of someone like nick fluentes i
01:11:25.680
mean i'll play and actually i don't agree with him here let's just listen to a bit of it this is a
01:11:29.660
complete and total u.s defeat this is an absolute there is no ambiguity here it's not debatable
01:11:38.540
it's not subject to interpretation we lost decisively it's like i said i mean he's not
01:11:47.560
wrong on that but like the scale of the defeat for israel is far greater than it is for america
01:11:53.780
if i was nick fluentes i would be very happy right now because because the israeli lobby has
01:11:59.460
just been comprehensively crushed crushed yeah but the america first lobby is just standing there
01:12:05.820
the bloody nose saying okay i didn't really enjoy that yep but i'm not down like you know the
01:12:10.640
america first guys in the trump administration were like no i don't agree with this at all
01:12:14.800
they've still got a really solid reputation in fact vance's reputation comes out of this better
01:12:19.600
because he was the most hard line against it so like i don't see this i think rubio survives it
01:12:25.160
as well i agreed yeah pete hegsiv obviously doesn't but you know maybe maybe you can stay
01:12:30.220
out of jail what was the the guy in charge of the cia as well um he came out of it all right as well
01:12:35.180
and so it's just like actually this is not terrible for the movement that is america first
01:12:40.680
at all and it could be a part of essentially flushing out the bad elements who have got
01:12:45.660
their tentacles in the american government the problem for the neocons now is that no
01:12:49.320
neither party wants them exactly the democrats can't be seen to side with the neocons even
01:12:54.140
though they wanted the war they love to yeah even though they wanted the war not allowed
01:12:57.580
And the Republicans can't side with the neocons.
01:13:00.200
And so now you're going to have this crazy dynamic
01:13:26.780
And if the next guy doesn't have that, that's it for them.
01:13:30.140
I'm expecting Witkoff and Kushner to be out very soon.
01:13:36.320
They are, supposedly the negotiations in Islamabad and Pakistan
01:13:45.480
And Witkoff and Kushner, I haven't confirmed this yet.
01:13:48.780
And Witkoff and Kushner, when they went to negotiate
01:14:08.400
is that the sort of Zionist slash neocon faction
01:14:54.360
I hate him, hate him, absolutely hate him.
0.72
01:14:57.620
But this is a man who knows, he's not doing a cat turd.
0.99
01:15:07.440
Of course, we should give an honourable mention to...
01:15:11.560
That basically would rather destroy him than the enemy.
01:15:29.640
I don't know why people are acting like this is a win
1.00
01:15:32.820
The Muslims, the woke Reich and the Trump haters
01:15:34.920
Are using this negotiation to attack President Trump
01:15:38.760
And call for the 25th Amendment to be used against President Trump
01:15:45.100
In the American right are vastly strengthened by this
01:15:49.240
look and that let us down the garden path and look where it got us new york times that literally
01:15:54.860
puts israel front and center it's israel persuaded trump to do this and the actual sort of like the
01:16:00.740
american authentic right embodied in vance were completely against it who was right who was wrong
01:16:05.880
well according to laura laura loomer the buchananite right was right as always as they always
01:16:11.440
have been because i wish i'd figured out myself well and go and academic agent is doing the quote
01:16:17.400
tweeting here i mean he he's got this cope theory that the deep state is trying to expunge um israel
01:16:24.040
israeli influence maybe that's a strengthened theory and i mean honestly the way i see that
01:16:29.020
is i'm sure there is a pro-israeli and an anti-israeli element within the deep state
01:16:33.160
the anti-israeli element within the deep state has just got a massive shot in the arm not just
01:16:38.580
that israel has become a strategic liability yes the issue for the americans now and really for
01:16:44.540
the israelis is that now they know that they are an albatross hanging around america's neck
0.56
01:16:50.040
that they don't actually add strategic value that all they do is extract and that they are a massive
01:16:58.600
strategic burden on the united states that's why they're reacting so badly and i'm just looking at
0.98
01:17:05.540
what's going on they are bombing the shit out of beirut yeah they're going crazy because they want
0.96
01:17:13.720
the ceasefire to fail they want to force trump back into the war well i mean so i don't believe
0.97
01:17:20.980
it is existential but they believe it's existential they believe everything's existential that's the
01:17:25.020
problem well then because they believe they never compromise with anyone therefore eventually it
01:17:31.360
does become existential yeah i mean if you force it to be existential then yeah i suppose it does
01:17:36.480
become existential but it doesn't have to be you know it could just be israel takes an l and just
01:17:41.960
returns to the established borders that had and it doesn't get territorial expansion it could be
01:17:47.860
that that for them is a defeat well i mean it would be a defeat but at least it wouldn't be
01:17:51.840
catastrophic they think every defeat is going to be the last one i know i know i mean as as we've
01:17:57.960
made the point throughout the this whole podcast um you know we we're not anti-american we want
0.99
01:18:03.040
the very best for america but we can see that you've got a brain parasite sat on the top of
0.96
01:18:08.520
your head and the new york times literally told us how it works however no matter how much i want
0.95
01:18:14.760
america to succeed i cannot extend that to lindsey graham
0.75
01:18:25.480
yeah any day where lindsey graham doesn't manage to get one of his rare erections is a good day
1.00
01:19:03.000
yeah it's really weird there are photos and everything and um the guy gives me the gives
01:19:10.820
me the creeps same here he looks disgusting yeah yes and i don't you know if i was gonna
01:19:16.060
you know anyway i won't go and go down that road but we're not fans look at this like you know the
01:19:22.100
complete humble pie lindsey graham is eating here well as i stated before i prefer diplomacy if at
01:19:27.980
least the right outcome you mean you got you got being you this guy does not prefer diplomacy
01:19:33.160
no he doesn't like yeah no he doesn't yeah yeah so this isn't lindsey graham eating humble pie
01:19:41.100
which is great yep again if you're an american patriot you should love to see it and i'm sure
01:19:46.000
you will do to be honest yeah yeah exactly and um you know as we keep saying yeah this this is
01:19:53.720
going to be the narrative that comes out of it weirdly vance being the sort of like figurehead
01:19:58.300
of america first and the sort of like then the truly nativist movement in america vance has come
01:20:03.440
out of this carrying you absolutely carrying you as the credible alternative to all of this
01:20:08.660
you know because i mean like there's no way the democrats can say ah well we wouldn't have done
01:20:12.820
that because there are so many videos of hillary clinton being like oh god j if you were like me
01:20:16.080
i'm gonna be bombing iran instantly you know it's gonna be bam bam bam no no one's gonna stop us
01:20:20.080
the only person who comes out of this with any kind of credibility is vance yeah i mean there's
01:20:24.700
that meme that we've seen a hundred times of the bullet going past trump's head and one version is
01:20:30.040
war with iran and then he turns his head and the other version is war with iran is now yeah yeah
01:20:33.760
um but but yeah i mean i mean clearly that that whole that whole leak exercise in the new york
01:20:39.200
times was a bid to to push his chances now maybe it's artificial or whatever it is but
01:20:44.500
you know that that is probably going to be the emergent narrative i i don't know i that might be
01:20:49.140
something that comes just downstream of what the actual intention was because i suspect the
01:20:52.640
intention is really to kind of stitch up the israelis right because that's that's when i
01:20:57.420
read that last guy i was just like that's what they're trying to do this person is not pro-israel
0.94
01:21:01.620
who writes this you know no you are you are trying to sever the the israeli brain parasite
01:21:08.160
from the american regime i mean ultimately i've i've got to give credit to trump and not
01:21:41.640
I think 90% of past U.S. presidents would have basically just got stuck in this quagmire,
01:21:48.280
would refuse to admit defeat, and it would be down to a predecessor to get them out of it.
01:22:01.060
With that, shall we have a look at some comments?
01:22:06.580
American here, do any of you believe that what is happening today will resemble the actual end of this conflict?
01:22:11.980
Oh, no, there's definitely, definitely more to play out.
01:22:18.280
If he puts his foot down, he's handed the region over to Iran,
01:22:23.160
But now what he's going to have to do is put his foot down on Israel, right?
01:22:26.260
So basically he would have to intercede somehow with them, you know,
0.74
01:22:30.180
ultra-bombing Lebanon or whatever they're doing next.
0.94
01:22:35.080
I mean, it seems that he's too sympathetic to Netanyahu.
01:22:38.120
I think Trump would have to feel so personally slighted
01:22:41.840
and embarrassed publicly by what Netanyahu has led him into
01:23:03.460
Just because this is a bit of a specific subject.
01:23:07.080
it's worth keeping on the proper comments um uh sorry uh yeah we read your first post uh the tea
01:23:14.180
party won a long war in the gop uh the real war is between the people trying to extend the old
01:23:18.260
national money energy control system and the people want the new supernational credit control
01:23:22.180
iran has won such battle in that war um that's i think that is one aspect to it you're right
01:24:00.220
I can well imagine if I was alive during the Dardanelles or the Sui's crisis,
0.95
01:24:04.600
I probably would have been the same, so I can't blame them.
0.85
01:24:08.980
In his credit, recognising when your intervention failed
01:24:11.100
and avoiding another 30 years in the sandbox is an accomplishment too.
01:24:15.380
Yeah, Trump's stuck in the bubble, that's true.
0.96
01:24:18.240
It would have been better to a black-bag Khamenei, like with Maduro, no matter the cost.
1.00
01:24:21.620
I mean, that's true, but that wasn't going to happen.
0.95
01:24:24.880
I'll go through some of the comments on the website.
01:24:26.420
um uh baron von morg says carl the reason iran has so many missiles because israel has been
01:24:32.820
calling for war against them for 40 years yeah i know i'm aware that the iranians have been
01:24:36.880
preparing for this for a long time but uh i just like i didn't know the extent of the
01:24:41.080
infrastructure they'd built up basically um and so many generals resigning uh any anyone could
01:24:48.260
have seen this unwinnable well i mean honestly like you're about to launch a series of operations
01:24:52.640
and you have loads of generals fired or resigning,
01:25:05.820
it's the campaigning on no more wars thing that gets me.
01:25:12.860
and will his ego allow him to back out of the plan?
01:25:17.460
I think Trump just, like the boomer that he is,
01:25:22.060
has his entire life had nothing but an unvarnished narrative about israel like the american
0.77
01:25:28.020
evangelical boomers like trump's protestant well you know nominally yeah and he's of that era he
01:25:35.780
comes from that culture where it's just oh yeah israel nothing but good there are guys in the
0.85
01:25:40.340
middle east and evil islam is around them it's like yeah okay what he watches fox news exactly
0.94
01:25:44.560
right i mean don't get me wrong i'm not saying there's nothing to that narrative you know no
0.67
01:25:48.580
And no one here is going to be accused of being sympathetic to Islam.
01:25:59.460
the US would have been better off continuing with the special forces
01:26:03.820
Like, just literally anything other than what would essentially
01:26:11.020
Like, literally anything other than that would have been a good idea.
01:26:21.380
I do not understand the design MAGA allegedly wants war
01:26:29.680
who, as far as I could tell, I thought were MAGA,
01:26:37.300
It's bizarre because he didn't only run against Middle East wars.
01:26:45.420
Which is why it's so weird that when Netanyahu's like,
01:26:47.340
right i've got my my guys behind me and here's my pitch trump's like hmm maybe i will do that
01:26:52.460
and for guys like us who listened to you know the the trump campaign and and and said yeah we agree
01:26:59.280
with everything he's running on yes to now get accused of having tds because we support everything
01:27:05.120
that he ran on sorry guys no we were hardcore trump supporters because we liked what he was
01:27:10.720
selling this wasn't it it wasn't the hair i like the hair it was the agenda i mean a lot of people
01:27:16.980
it was funny but but it's it's that new york times article like sorry it's very clear that
01:27:21.860
israel dragged you into this war you were not cheering an american war when america was fighting
0.99
01:27:27.140
its own wars we were cheering america black bad maduro fucking um bunker boss bomb the nuclear
0.99
01:27:33.420
sets that's fine these are all america's goals but this wasn't america's goals so we're not for it
0.98
01:27:38.620
we can see that you're being led by the nose and i i genuinely feel bad for this sort of like
01:27:42.840
excessively online people who've got to now be like well my country's going to war it's like
01:27:47.320
yeah okay but it's going to war for someone else's country it's not your interests yeah
01:27:52.960
a good day for america first a bad day for maga um you see i didn't really see a maga
01:27:59.500
and america first having such distinctions i always thought that you know maga was kind of
01:28:04.640
like you know a nativist it was supposed to be the same thing it was supposed to be but clearly
01:28:09.960
it's not i mean one has got the hooks into it and the other one hasn't that's basically what it is
01:28:16.020
and honestly you know nick fuentes was ahead of the game on that whether you like him or not
01:28:21.020
you know he but i agree with your take though it's like he doesn't seem to understand that
01:28:24.720
america first is one year actually yeah oh yeah yeah it's amazing to see how many americas
01:28:29.580
americans see this as a win it's like as soon as their gas prices go up they'll do anything to
01:28:34.260
bring them down again well again like there is a silver lining to it for the america first
0.90
01:28:39.720
movement there really is um it's going to be very difficult for um the zionists to muster a moral
0.99
01:28:45.980
argument in their own defense in the future yes they're pretty done there you know a lot of people
01:28:51.980
are not happy with israel which um understandable uh michael says one of the problems that has long
01:28:59.780
been that there's long been that the u.s keeps running a magic soil foreign policy run by
01:29:03.840
academics no one seems to understand western thought is unique to the west and failure to
01:29:07.360
comprehend that has cost us dear well this is this is why this didn't go as um as planned yeah
01:29:12.700
yeah yeah absolutely they went into martyrdom mode yeah and you know i don't it kind of has
01:29:19.000
worked for them you know whether you like them or not uh so anyway um i mean there are loads
01:29:25.560
of comments about this but like i don't a lot of them are a bit inflammatory and i don't want to
01:29:31.680
read out anything too inflammatory yeah some of those are let's be nice so yeah it's up anyway
0.95
01:29:36.360
someone online says lads i'm going to be honest with you only idiots take trump literally well
0.95
01:29:40.080
this is what i was saying like he's not literally going to end the thing he's like an avatar of
0.98
01:29:44.040
america and he's hyperbole as a community this is exactly why i wasn't panicked about that and i
01:29:48.960
saw people oh my god he said this you know why are you taking that seriously in block capitals
01:29:54.520
underneath he's like who knows this is not him giving an actual literal statement because even
01:29:59.540
Because even a very small possibility of a nuke
01:30:08.880
For us, I've seen rumours that China had a hand in negotiations.
01:30:11.860
Are they actually hurting more than we've been led to believe
01:30:26.660
They don't want the region to be burned to the ground.
01:30:28.940
They have massive strategic interests there.
0.97
01:30:31.300
They're slowly consolidating over the Muslim world.
1.00
01:30:38.140
They're not hurting anywhere near as badly as the Europeans.
01:30:42.040
And the Pakistanis were coordinating everything with the Chinese.
01:30:46.680
And I think that the Chinese kind of pushed Iran a little bit to negotiate.
01:30:56.180
Remember when Israel first broke Trump's ceasefire
01:30:58.500
and he said they don't know what the F they're doing.
01:31:03.440
that somehow Netanyahu rolled a 20 on the charisma check
01:31:06.860
and Trump was like, yeah, I will invite you.
0.98
01:31:08.860
But they've defied you and made you look silly in public multiple times
01:31:13.800
and you're still like, yeah, okay, I'm going to allow them to do it.
01:31:19.080
And what I'm going to say is I just don't understand
0.52
01:31:24.700
i just don't i don't get it i don't see it as being you know i mean i you know i'm not religious
01:31:29.840
man so i don't understand but um yeah well so um yeah good news um for america first and i think
01:31:38.920
america in general so congratulations on your win in that respect and uh see you in the next one