The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1456

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Podcast of the Lotus Eaters. It is episode 1456. It is Tuesday, the 7th July, year of our Lord, 2026.

00:00:08.940 And I'm joined by the absolute dream team, Beau and Carl.

00:00:12.300 Hello.

00:00:12.760 Especially if you like old men. That's your thing?

00:00:16.100 Gen X dream team.

00:00:17.100 Yes. We've got it for you today. Right, so today we're going to be discussing Marine Le Pen.

00:00:24.680 Apparently there's been some fresh news on that. Very fresh news, as in the last 30 seconds.

00:00:29.920 Breaking.

00:00:30.700 Breaking, yes.

00:00:31.840 Extra, extra, read all about it.

00:00:33.440 We are actually going to be quicker than Twitter for this one.

00:00:38.180 Oh, yeah, then we're going to talk about the move amongst,

00:00:41.800 what is it, the Democratic, DSA,

00:00:45.240 Demented Socialist Alliance, that thing in America.

00:00:48.020 I think it's the Democratic Socialists of America.

00:00:50.580 It could be that.

00:00:51.340 It could be that.

00:00:51.880 They are pushing for abolition of prison,

00:00:54.960 which I kind of low-key support, depending on what.

00:00:59.020 For Anakin Skywalker meme purposes.

00:01:02.020 And then I have no idea what Carl's segment is because he won't tell us.

00:01:05.200 Yeah, no, I don't want to tell you.

00:01:06.760 Fair enough.

00:01:07.440 Right, with that, let's hear about Le Pen.

00:01:10.460 All right, well, so the future of France hangs in the balance

00:01:14.180 or hung in the balance until just now, literally, wasn't it?

00:01:16.760 Like one minute ago, maybe?

00:01:18.160 It was breaking news from France all about the future of Marine Le Pen herself

00:01:23.140 and, by extension, National Rally and France.

00:01:27.080 I mean, I would prefer that the centre,

00:01:30.300 the geographic centre of Western Europe

00:01:32.040 did not devolve into an Islamic African hellhole.

00:01:36.200 Well, I suppose, should I just give you the takeaway

00:01:39.080 straight off the bat?

00:01:40.080 Yeah, don't keep it in suspense.

00:01:41.440 Right.

00:01:42.160 So she's lost her appeal.

00:01:45.480 Right.

00:01:46.020 So she won't be able to stand for president next year.

00:01:48.960 It's like May next year.

00:01:50.220 So remind me why she's appealing.

00:01:52.300 Okay.

00:01:52.680 Why she's appealing?

00:01:53.760 Yeah, no, no, why she has to appeal.

00:01:55.760 Okay, right, okay.

00:01:56.260 Is it something to do with expenses or something?

00:01:58.340 Yeah, so in a nutshell, it was this.

00:02:00.220 And it goes back years and years and years as well.

00:02:02.260 It goes back like a good 11 years, arguably more,

00:02:05.500 arguably even to her father's time.

00:02:08.380 And what it was, basically, she was found guilty,

00:02:10.460 well, her and a dozen or more members of National Rally

00:02:13.780 were found guilty of embezzlement, over 4 million euros.

00:02:18.200 Sort of Nicola Sturgeon-style stuff.

00:02:19.740 So that's the thing, they didn't embezzle it,

00:02:21.460 put it in their own pocket and buy silver and gold things with it

00:02:24.800 and buy cars with it what it was uh they're given money from the european parliament which was

00:02:31.120 supposed to be spent on their meps and he said they spent it on their own domestic party oh my

00:02:36.960 goodness okay well i mean wasn't her defense wasn't her defense of that that she said yes but

00:02:42.480 literally everybody does this every they all do it and the eu said yes but we're prosecuting you

00:02:49.540 and not all those other ones yeah well not the eu it's the french oh okay the french yeah right

00:02:53.680 Well, yeah.

00:02:54.860 Right.

00:02:55.400 And also, she didn't, apparently, and I believe her,

00:02:59.380 she didn't personally order any of that.

00:03:01.560 It was just sort of a, yeah, just sort of a do-and-gill thing.

00:03:03.940 Just what everybody actually does.

00:03:05.340 For years.

00:03:06.080 Right.

00:03:06.460 But now they've been pulled up on it.

00:03:08.160 And so, okay.

00:03:09.000 And she was sentenced to four years in prison,

00:03:11.960 but three years suspended and one year with an ankle bracelet thing on.

00:03:17.000 Jesus Christ.

00:03:18.000 So she doesn't actually have to go to prison, but.

00:03:20.220 But she's got an ankle bracelet.

00:03:21.420 Well, she probably will have to now, yeah.

00:03:23.180 for at least a year and also like a hundred thousand euro fine for her a two million euro

00:03:29.680 fine which was reduced to one million euro fine for the party and she's not allowed to run for

00:03:34.180 office for five years right so that's what this is really about right because of course i mean i

00:03:39.520 haven't been following france's politics but let me guess uh she's leading the polls yep and it

00:03:46.040 looks like she was going to be the next president yep probably and there's like so i recall that

00:03:51.660 the left got behind macron uh he nearly lost but didn't uh and it looks like that basically they're

00:03:58.780 going to get completely crushed in the next election and there's nothing else they can do

00:04:01.940 to stop her at this point yeah so let's talk a tiny bit about just the the political landscape

00:04:07.120 in france i've kept my eye on it a little bit over the years last few years i mean just like we've

00:04:12.620 had uh revolving uh prime ministers they've had loads and loads of prime ministers not president

00:04:18.660 obviously a different thing, but they've had like,

00:04:20.400 I think five prime ministers in the last two odd years.

00:04:26.560 So, okay, this is their political landscape.

00:04:28.240 They've got, Macron is considered centrist, totally centrist.

00:04:32.660 And his coalition often takes the more centre-left

00:04:36.100 and centre-right people.

00:04:37.880 Okay, but he's done now, Macron, like in all the polls in France,

00:04:41.820 he's just nowhere.

00:04:42.920 He's as popular as Keir Starmer, isn't he?

00:04:44.600 And no one's talking about him winning another term, nobody.

00:04:47.640 Okay, so beyond that, you've got the left and the right on France.

00:04:52.340 If you think we've got more and more, increasingly more parties,

00:04:54.460 they've got way more.

00:04:55.100 They've got at least five on the right, all the way from conservative,

00:04:58.320 centre-right, all the way to what they call the far right, like RN.

00:05:03.240 And then on the left, they've got another at least five parties

00:05:06.200 that are realistic.

00:05:07.020 Is RN the furthest right option that they have?

00:05:09.660 No, I believe there is one that's a bit more.

00:05:12.140 Right.

00:05:12.440 I believe there is one.

00:05:13.420 I'm sorry if I get that wrong.

00:05:14.520 I believe there is one that's a bit more.

00:05:16.320 Okay.

00:05:17.000 Well, in fact, in a minute,

00:05:19.100 I'll talk about how her replacement is considered

00:05:21.620 a bit more centre-right than she was,

00:05:24.200 but we'll talk about that in a moment.

00:05:25.540 On the left, they've got...

00:05:26.440 He's only 30.

00:05:28.420 So you've got a young guy,

00:05:29.420 and somehow he's more moderate than Marine Le Pen.

00:05:31.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:32.640 I don't think Marine Le Pen is a radical either.

00:05:35.440 She's not particularly.

00:05:36.220 No, the RN aren't particularly far-right.

00:05:39.000 They're always called, aren't they,

00:05:39.960 by the lexical promocory media, far-right.

00:05:42.120 They're not really.

00:05:43.640 They actually listen to the rhetoric.

00:05:44.680 They're just patriot people.

00:05:46.100 I mean, and even then, not hard, hard, hard line.

00:05:49.260 They're not.

00:05:50.440 Yeah, she comes across kind of like Francis Nigel Farage, right?

00:05:53.560 I was just going to say, it's like Reform or Restore,

00:05:55.800 the hard right, the extreme right.

00:05:57.620 No, no, it's pretty centrist dad stuff, really,

00:06:00.540 when you boil it down.

00:06:02.620 Okay.

00:06:03.400 Or like the AFD.

00:06:04.540 They're not much more than centrist, are they, AFD, really?

00:06:09.180 It's a start.

00:06:10.200 Yeah, but right, it's stepping stones, it's a start,

00:06:12.140 moving the Everton window, et cetera, et cetera.

00:06:13.360 so um yeah so they've got another five odd parties on the left from center left all the way through

00:06:20.860 to full-blown communist and the way it works in their presidential elections is that there's two

00:06:25.620 rounds the first round is everyone is in the in it all the votes get cast and then whoever the top

00:06:31.040 two are there's a whole second round okay so that's how it works so it's really the first round is

00:06:36.760 about just simply getting to round two yeah but then in round two it's sort of reset and you start

00:06:42.980 again and if one of the factions if one of the wings decide to all club together like the left

00:06:49.520 all decide to come together then they can keep the right out so so my vague memory of france

00:06:55.080 in the early years well in my early years was is her father le pen would regularly get through to

00:07:00.720 the second round yeah yeah and then just everybody would vote against him again whoever it was yeah

00:07:05.260 oh that's played out again again again that's how she got screwed over the last what three times

00:07:10.240 Yeah.

00:07:11.060 Exactly that.

00:07:12.060 Right.

00:07:12.520 So in all the polls,

00:07:15.780 National Rally are sort of an absolute slam dunk certainty

00:07:19.680 to get to the second round.

00:07:21.240 There's sort of no doubt whether they will.

00:07:23.640 It's just whether they then win in the second round.

00:07:26.760 And this time round, it'll probably be quite close,

00:07:30.080 but a lot of the polls are showing, at the moment anyway,

00:07:32.660 that they may well win that as well.

00:07:36.940 But it's not till May next year,

00:07:39.420 So that's a lifetime in politics, isn't it?

00:07:41.580 Especially these days.

00:07:45.180 Pardon me.

00:07:46.040 Well, so actually, there's a little bit of a video here.

00:07:49.820 Let's have a quick look.

00:07:51.500 There was, they showed a few of the polls where, oh, here we go.

00:07:59.420 Sorry.

00:08:00.400 All other potential challenges.

00:08:02.340 However, according to a new poll.

00:08:04.000 Sorry about that.

00:08:04.560 Don't need to hear the actual thing.

00:08:06.340 Should have had the timestamp lined up.

00:08:08.300 There we go.

00:08:09.020 Look.

00:08:09.420 There's the poles.

00:08:10.280 So the top one, that dark blue, that is RN.

00:08:13.260 It's a pretty commanding lead.

00:08:14.420 All the poles have them ahead at the moment.

00:08:17.380 So next thing to say then.

00:08:19.220 That's first round though, isn't it?

00:08:21.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:23.060 Because if I were to add up all of the other bars,

00:08:26.280 they probably did come out ahead.

00:08:27.640 Which ones are the left ones and which ones are the left ones?

00:08:29.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:30.420 Right.

00:08:30.820 Well, on the second round, they're saying it will probably be close

00:08:33.420 because it usually is.

00:08:34.440 But actually what a lot of people are saying,

00:08:36.020 and this might not actually play out in May next year,

00:08:38.180 But the left will probably end up selecting quite a hardline left dude,

00:08:43.040 perhaps the second most hardline left dude.

00:08:45.980 And then he will almost certainly lose to a national rally in the second round

00:08:50.980 because the French, they like their lefties, but not that much.

00:08:54.840 The French leftists are completely masked off as well.

00:08:57.840 Have you seen, there was this one French leftist woman,

00:09:00.500 I saw the clip going around where she's like,

00:09:02.020 ha-ha, you right-wingers, you evil right-wingers have lost.

00:09:04.780 The great replacement has succeeded.

00:09:06.160 there are not enough of you now to demographically vote you know your way and then melanchon comes

00:09:11.780 going yeah we do need a great replacement and that's a good thing we want to replace the french

00:09:15.600 for being racist it's like i wish our lefties would come out and say stuff like that it'd just

00:09:20.860 be curtains for the left in this country if they're actually honest about why they're for

00:09:24.800 immigration and stuff like that so i actually enjoy the french leftists finally someone telling

00:09:29.000 the truth a lot of french people it seems where they've been flirting with rn for 20 years or

00:09:34.760 More even.

00:09:35.560 Yes.

00:09:35.940 They've been, they've

00:09:36.420 been getting close.

00:09:37.120 Well, there's going to be

00:09:37.640 an entire generation of

00:09:38.500 voters who have grown up

00:09:39.340 with them as the right

00:09:40.420 wing party.

00:09:41.000 Yeah.

00:09:41.420 Right.

00:09:41.620 And it's like, okay, but

00:09:42.360 things are getting worse.

00:09:43.480 Things are getting more

00:09:43.940 dangerous.

00:09:44.480 There are continually

00:09:45.120 gangs of foreigners

00:09:45.920 murdering French kids on

00:09:47.160 the streets.

00:09:47.620 Why are we not voting for

00:09:48.440 these guys again?

00:09:49.280 It's like, well, you know,

00:09:50.620 you know, it's just not

00:09:51.600 the done thing.

00:09:52.600 It's like, sorry.

00:09:53.100 I mean, the French youth

00:09:54.500 are way more right wing

00:09:55.300 than our youth as well,

00:09:56.340 as I recall.

00:09:57.440 So good for them.

00:09:59.520 Well, you've had her

00:10:00.380 father, Jean-Marie Le Pen,

00:10:03.220 started this stuff in like

00:10:04.760 70s the early 70s and she's been in charge since i think what is it 2007 or 2011 something like

00:10:11.900 that so anyway the le pen name and the national front as it was then now national rally is

00:10:18.400 absolutely established and a household thing in france it's not like this weird up and coming

00:10:24.500 out of nowhere fashion neo-fascist it's not no no and as as we've already said they're quite

00:10:31.960 Milquetoast, really, they're kind of just right of centre.

00:10:36.380 And so this segment was going to be, probably,

00:10:39.680 is Marine Le Pen going to win or lose her appeal?

00:10:42.860 And it came through, as we said, just a moment before, that she's lost.

00:10:44.960 So it will be her successor.

00:10:47.940 And National Rally have got just a complete designated heir apparent.

00:10:52.540 Okay, good.

00:10:52.880 So in those terms, the party's quite safe.

00:10:57.140 That's what everyone's saying.

00:10:57.920 All the people that really know French politics inside out are saying

00:11:00.020 It doesn't really matter, apart from Marine Le Pen personally,

00:11:04.020 her personal career, that's sort of done, at least for now,

00:11:07.460 at least for the next five years.

00:11:08.800 But as far as the party is concerned,

00:11:11.480 they will all be united behind the next in line.

00:11:15.060 Good.

00:11:15.860 I mean, Bo, you'll know this as much as anyone,

00:11:19.120 when you're looking at historical successions,

00:11:23.480 it's always far more smooth and more sensible

00:11:26.100 when the current king has a crown prince.

00:11:28.760 everyone knows yeah okay as soon as the king dies that guy is going to be the new king there's no

00:11:34.040 need for a power struggle it's all orderly you know if you want something get close to that guy

00:11:37.720 now you know blah blah blah and so it's actually really sensible like because at the moment like

00:11:41.780 Nigel Farage is going to be making an announcement at 2 p.m today yeah well okay let's assume that

00:11:46.700 I mean we don't know what he's going to say but let's assume Nigel Farage pulls out well who the

00:11:49.900 hell's the successor yeah is it Zayo is it Tice is it Torrey yeah there's now there would have to

00:11:57.360 be a power struggle within reform which is itself intrinsically damaging so they're they're far more

00:12:03.220 sensible on this than why is this young guy not more base because normally the young guy is a

00:12:07.920 baster he's probably keeping his well just before i answer that and talk about this guy just to make

00:12:11.780 build on your point briefly yeah of course that's the difference between um a smooth uh change over

00:12:18.640 power and some sort of complete anarchy breakdown crazy civil war if you talk about sort of maybe

00:12:24.240 maybe medieval monarchy for example yeah and it's for anyone who's wondering like politics is

00:12:30.680 war is an extension of politics and so politics is kind of the precursor to war so if it's the

00:12:36.300 same principle at play though right it's the same energies at play so okay you've got the the army

00:12:40.960 splits in two and then starts fighting itself okay that weakens it to outside forces well if

00:12:44.880 there was uh an internal fight in reform then suddenly gemrick and zia are currently taking

00:12:49.840 chunks out of each other in public well again it's the same principle it weakens it from outside

00:12:53.760 forces so if you're running a party you want to know that there is a smooth succession planned

00:12:58.020 to avoid this outcome otherwise you just damage your own prospects so can i can i just interject

00:13:04.040 quickly because the chat is saying or somebody in the chat was saying that the media is reporting

00:13:09.860 because we've only just found this out 30 seconds before the before we came on um that she can run

00:13:16.160 but while wearing an ankle bracelet oh right okay maybe yeah but she she's ruled it out she says no

00:13:21.740 that she said for a while now she said um that won't allow me to uh campaign properly and it's

00:13:28.060 humiliating and if that ends up being the case i'm i'm not going to do it right okay so yeah so it's

00:13:33.180 okay but i guess because i think it's a curfew thing should actually have a curfew right so

00:13:40.280 yeah she anyway she's ruled that out a long time ago honestly good on earth on that don't put a

00:13:45.660 curfew on all the people who are making paris unlivable put a curfew on the person who's trying

00:13:50.020 to stop Paris from being unlivable.

00:13:51.760 That's literally us.

00:13:53.500 So who is this next guy?

00:13:55.280 Well, his name's Jordan Bardella or Jordan Bardella.

00:13:59.000 Yeah.

00:13:59.520 This guy.

00:14:00.320 This guy could be the president of France in like a year,

00:14:04.660 under a year, and maybe, and he's only 30,

00:14:08.560 maybe be the president of France for 10 years or more.

00:14:11.060 Who knows?

00:14:11.680 Is he straight?

00:14:12.220 This could be the guy.

00:14:13.180 I believe so.

00:14:13.860 I don't know.

00:14:14.320 Is he married?

00:14:15.780 I don't know.

00:14:17.120 Like, you know, straight white man.

00:14:18.940 That's the first question.

00:14:19.720 He's got his policy platform.

00:14:21.020 No, is he a straight white man?

00:14:22.320 That's what I want to charge.

00:14:23.640 I think he is.

00:14:24.420 And is he so right-wing that he has yellow fever?

00:14:28.540 I'm going to look it up.

00:14:30.440 One of the main things to know about him,

00:14:32.140 other than that he's 30,

00:14:34.060 is that the first thing his detractors will say

00:14:37.440 is that he hasn't run anything before.

00:14:40.820 He's one of those people that sort of came out of uni

00:14:42.300 and started being a politician.

00:14:44.600 He's never run a big business.

00:14:45.640 He's never been in office, political office before,

00:14:47.720 anything like that.

00:14:49.520 That's what his detractors would say.

00:14:51.300 But the thing is, the thing that's interesting

00:14:53.580 is that he polls better than Marine Le Pen.

00:14:56.560 Oh, OK.

00:14:57.160 He actually polls better than her.

00:14:58.300 And she's a household name, as we said.

00:15:00.320 The Le Pen name is firmly, firmly, firmly entrenched.

00:15:03.800 And he polls better than her.

00:15:06.000 And also, I mean, I know this might sound like a frivolous point,

00:15:09.700 but women do actually vote on looks and hair.

00:15:12.760 A lot of people do.

00:15:13.960 That's like why Justin Trudeau did so well,

00:15:16.100 because women thought they were great hair.

00:15:17.760 A lot of people vote on just looks, whether they're male or female.

00:15:23.420 Some hideously ugly guy makes a poor politician, unfortunately.

00:15:27.620 Yeah.

00:15:28.260 It's one thing.

00:15:28.800 You don't have to be – it helps,

00:15:30.400 but you don't have to be ridiculously good looking.

00:15:32.280 But if you're badly ugly, that's a problem, isn't it?

00:15:35.760 Abraham Lincoln would not do well today.

00:15:38.200 Probably not.

00:15:39.160 Apparently he does have a girlfriend, so that's good.

00:15:41.320 Not married yet, though.

00:15:44.060 Suspect.

00:15:44.460 So this could be the dude.

00:15:50.680 He almost certainly will get through to the second round

00:15:53.980 of the presidential thing.

00:15:55.400 And then if the left select a quite hardline socialist,

00:16:00.440 then he will almost certainly, if they do that,

00:16:02.760 he will almost certainly win that.

00:16:04.140 And then so he's the president.

00:16:05.660 Right.

00:16:06.600 Fingers crossed.

00:16:07.160 So remember the name Jordan Bardella, I suppose.

00:16:11.560 There you go.

00:16:12.700 Fair enough.

00:16:14.460 Old Eagle says, so they're likely right of centre,

00:16:17.460 so they're likely going to be useless if they win,

00:16:19.480 like the Republicans in the US and reform the UK.

00:16:21.520 Well, it's hard to know,

00:16:22.840 because National Rally have never won before, have they?

00:16:26.720 So we actually don't know what they would be like.

00:16:30.160 As I understand it,

00:16:32.160 they used to be considered a lot more right wing back under the fence.

00:16:35.720 Her father was much more bellicose than she is.

00:16:37.740 Yeah, and she's done a lot of work over the course of her career

00:16:40.560 to kind of moderate them to the centre.

00:16:42.100 Honestly, a lot like Nigel Farage.

00:16:43.580 So hopefully he's hiding his power levels

00:16:46.820 and he's just going to go 100% uber-nationalist

00:16:50.040 the moment he gets in.

00:16:50.860 Apparently the reason why he's sort of a shoo-in,

00:16:53.720 at least to get to the second round,

00:16:57.360 is because he does appeal more to conservative types

00:17:00.160 rather than hard-right types.

00:17:02.020 But we'll see.

00:17:03.820 I mean, to be honest with you,

00:17:04.800 just anything that starts moving in that direction

00:17:06.940 would be good at this point.

00:17:08.280 He's going to be better than Macron,

00:17:09.220 who's a full globalist, right?

00:17:10.940 Yeah, exactly.

00:17:11.440 Yeah.

00:17:11.720 literally a sort of weff guy um scott says i'll avoid making this a fed post but if they take

00:17:19.300 away all our options what do they think will happen it's why we end up conspiratorial because

00:17:23.720 hard to believe anyone is this short-sighted um yeah well i think they genuinely think they have

00:17:28.660 a lid on everything um although i think they are genuinely afraid of losing control so this is why

00:17:34.620 you see the panic at uh southport and things like that although there was a riot yeah it's a riot

00:17:39.380 that's not going to bring down the government,

00:17:41.240 but Keir Starmer acted like this might have brought down the government.

00:17:43.980 It's like, right, no, I'm coming down on you, 24-hour courts,

00:17:46.500 full repression, full force of the law, you know, all that sort of stuff.

00:17:49.600 They took it way more seriously than I thought they needed to do.

00:17:52.060 It was complete Peter Luby action kind of stuff.

00:17:54.500 Very much, yeah.

00:17:55.260 No, no, very much.

00:17:56.220 It was just, no, I'm going to give you everything I've got to give you

00:17:59.260 and make sure you get stamped on properly hard.

00:18:02.020 It's like, oh, okay, fair enough.

00:18:04.380 And Sigil Stone says, is he straight?

00:18:06.000 He says, no, he's French.

00:18:06.820 yes actually that's a fair point i did look at his wikipedia page and apparently he has had to

00:18:13.480 deny rumors of being gay straight asterisk for a frenchman i don't i don't think the french

00:18:21.680 are all necessarily gay i mean just effeminate yeah man i'm not saying that you know that's

00:18:28.100 that's what beau says i didn't say that well in the in the comments let us know how straight

00:18:31.560 the french are all right um okay so let's talk about um an old idea uh which is which is getting

00:18:38.780 more uh traction amongst the modern vibrant democrat sort of youth the the mandamis and the

00:18:46.660 aocs and stuff um is it sitting at the desk backwards no so i enjoyed that why were the why

00:18:52.720 were the why were the drawers facing the camera does he not know what a desk is for i had no idea

00:18:58.160 what you were phoned.

00:18:58.820 Oh, he did like

00:18:59.740 a hostage ransom video

00:19:00.980 the other day.

00:19:01.760 Right.

00:19:02.160 Is that one of their

00:19:03.200 new tax policies?

00:19:04.180 They just kidnapped somebody.

00:19:05.080 I can't remember what it was.

00:19:06.260 But it looked like

00:19:06.860 an ISIS threat video

00:19:08.040 where he's got like

00:19:09.000 a bunch of people

00:19:09.600 instead of holding guns

00:19:10.460 they're holding flags

00:19:11.360 next to him.

00:19:12.180 But it looked kind of like

00:19:13.280 it was some sort of

00:19:13.880 ISIS video.

00:19:14.740 And he was delivering

00:19:15.600 a threat to the camera.

00:19:16.740 But he was sat behind

00:19:18.100 the wrong side of the desk.

00:19:19.960 Right.

00:19:20.220 So all the drawers

00:19:20.960 were like facing the camera.

00:19:22.140 It's like

00:19:22.360 like he turned up

00:19:23.780 somebody else's offices.

00:19:24.860 Yeah, it's exactly right.

00:19:26.000 Yes.

00:19:26.360 Well, there is an argument

00:19:27.180 that every video

00:19:28.040 he's in looks like an isis video for reasons oh that's not that's not what i was thinking but yeah

00:19:32.540 this one had particular uh airs of um we've got this person and you'll have to ransom them right

00:19:38.620 okay samson do you want to play this video for us what a question what purpose do prisons serve i

00:19:46.020 don't know mr mandani what purpose do they serve um are prisons obsolete

00:19:51.300 whoo coming through with the quotes with the titles of the books

00:19:58.120 i have to read that actually i haven't read that as yet but i think that frankly

00:20:03.360 i mean what purpose do they serve right right i think we have to ask ourselves that which is that

00:20:12.380 you know i think a lot of people who defend the carceral state they defend the idea of it and the

00:20:18.860 way it makes them feel yeah yeah yeah what purpose they said keeping violent people can't be trusted

00:20:27.680 not to hurt other people away from the general population so you're not in favor of getting rid

00:20:32.980 of prisons no well i mean there is a there is a more based answer but for what capital punishment

00:20:42.360 for everything well stealing a loaf of bread capital punishment well i mean be honest be

00:20:47.320 serious now now of course getting rid of prisons is an insane idea is only yeah yeah only someone

00:20:53.700 that would want to destroy the fabric of society would argue for something like that surely yeah

00:20:58.480 there you go i mean like you don't see a problem you see you lining up with mandarin you don't see

00:21:02.580 any sort of so well well hang on so the the the reason the reason the left hates prisons right

00:21:08.460 is because fundamentally um they want a total equality between every kind of person right

00:21:14.240 and what the prisons do they identify that there's something they call the lumpen proletariat right

00:21:19.360 which is essentially the criminal element of each society you know there's like a one or two percent

00:21:24.460 uh of every society that is just generally not going to go along with the rules poorly socialized

00:21:30.580 don't really care about the laws don't care about the people and therefore we need to do something

00:21:34.680 about them and we've chosen prison as the solution to that type of person that won't stop re-offending

00:21:40.420 yes yeah it just doesn't care you know it's just it it for whatever reason it may be different for

00:21:46.460 each one they just are about sort of one or two percent of society who just keep causing trouble

00:21:51.520 for everyone else and the question that is asked really when it's like should we abolish prisons

00:21:57.700 is why shouldn't those people just be given the full run of society because while those people

00:22:04.280 exist there is the law-abiding tax-paying mug who goes around doing all of the things that he's

00:22:11.260 supposed to do and he has a privilege above those people because he isn't starving he isn't homeless

00:22:18.300 he isn't being persecuted by the authorities he's not being oppressed other than his taxes

00:22:22.980 by the repressive state apparatuses that the prisons the police the courts these are all

00:22:28.980 designed to keep that one or two percent in their place at the bottom of society well if you're a

00:22:34.040 person who believes ideologically like a retard in equality then you're like well those people

00:22:40.080 are people technically true and they're not equal specifically by the structures of the state

00:22:44.820 also technically true so we need to do something to make those people equal to you now if those

00:22:50.860 people are intransigent lawbreakers criminals rapists murderers whatever it is and they can't

00:22:57.420 be made to be good citizens well then you have to be made to not be secure and safe and living a

00:23:04.740 normal life because we have we are going to have equality over everything according to the democratic

00:23:10.060 socialists so as far as they're concerned they think that every impulse towards crime is a product

00:23:17.960 of the system that they've been brought and raised in right so no person is ever truly responsible

00:23:23.360 for actions your material conditions determine everything now this i think is inaccurate this

00:23:28.380 is not correct of course obviously but if you believe that then what their answer is well

00:23:35.120 you've just denied them resources that would have made them good people

00:23:38.380 and therefore actually what you should do is the natural state of people is to be good people if

00:23:42.260 they had equality if they have if you need to start with economic equality and then and then

00:23:46.760 you get criminal equality moral equality out to the end of it and so what that means is that

00:23:51.340 actually the criminals shouldn't be going to jail you should be giving them some of your money

00:23:53.920 yes and it's like okay well i mean if if you've got a very abstract uh remote perspective on

00:23:59.800 things but if you believe that people are agents and actually have moral worth in and of themselves

00:24:05.260 and actually have choices then i think actually people who do terrible things like for example i

00:24:10.480 saw the other day um some guy had pushed a woman in front of a train uh you know like new york

00:24:15.740 subway or whatever and then he was asked what did you do i just felt like it i just felt like it's

00:24:20.440 Is that material conditions?

00:24:21.760 Or was he a psychopath who hated the white woman

00:24:24.260 that he'd pushed in front because he wasn't white, obviously?

00:24:26.540 And actually, I think those people should be given death.

00:24:29.440 Yes.

00:24:30.140 So this is Angela Davis,

00:24:31.680 one of the most well-known prison abolitionists.

00:24:35.700 And she likens prison to slavery.

00:24:38.780 So she calls herself a 21st century abolitionist.

00:24:41.820 And I won't bother playing the clip,

00:24:43.980 but I'll put the face up.

00:24:45.300 But it's going to be the argument I've just made there, right?

00:24:47.400 Well, I mean, actually,

00:24:48.380 she doesn't make the argument anywhere near as well as the way you just made it she's just asked

00:24:53.380 you know do you want to get rid of prison and she says yes because if you have prisons it doesn't

00:24:57.440 solve the problem and then she goes to talk about well no she makes the case she says look let's say

00:25:03.960 you send a man to prison for violence against women well violence against women still takes

00:25:09.180 place and therefore sending that man to jail hasn't achieved the thing that you wanted it to

00:25:14.280 achieve there's some big brain hours here isn't it what happened is the victims he would have

00:25:19.180 created yeah i mean yeah you haven't you haven't 100 solved the problem well okay and therefore

00:25:24.720 what was the point carl makes a good argument i mean i was thinking of rousseau nearly the whole

00:25:28.840 time you're talking 100 talking about uh that people children are always essentially pristine

00:25:34.600 and good and it's only the evil world of men and kings and priests that turn them into evil

00:25:39.060 Specifically society itself.

00:25:40.560 Yeah, all society is what I'm saying, yeah.

00:25:42.700 And, of course, that is nonsense and wrong.

00:25:45.320 But can I...

00:25:46.160 Just to finish up, we all know of the certain type of person,

00:25:51.340 and if it's not a full-blown rape or murder or something

00:25:54.380 that should deserve capital punishment, if it isn't that,

00:25:57.640 someone that just cannot stop doing petty crime

00:26:00.180 will not stop stealing cars or something.

00:26:03.580 It doesn't really warrant capital punishment, in all honesty.

00:26:07.340 but they won't do or something more minor let's say they just they won't stop committing petty

00:26:13.200 crime of course they should go to prison well they should be punished for what they're doing

00:26:17.720 doesn't necessarily have to be prison i mean there are other solutions for people who steal

00:26:22.780 the rest of us need to be protected from them don't we yes but the thing is the left will argue

00:26:28.680 ah well what you've identified there is property crimes right so these are crimes of material

00:26:32.860 deprivation so if that guy had a nice car or he had a nice house or had all these things

00:26:37.420 then would he have stolen those things and that's actually on the face of it fairly persuasive

00:26:41.880 except you realize that there are a bunch of like hollywood actresses and things like that who get

00:26:46.660 done for shoplifting we know the riders a collector yeah yeah right and so it's like okay well

00:26:52.280 anthony warrell thompson yeah well there we go right so there are actually a bunch of really

00:26:56.040 rich people and you you get at the moment like if if you're like a multi-millionaire maybe you'll

00:27:01.260 say uh no uh Nigel Farage right and you're making loads of money from your GB News and cameo

00:27:06.280 appearances why do you need to take a bunch of undeclared donations and things like that right

00:27:10.740 like they're going to get him on that assuming it is a crime I don't know that it is but like

00:27:15.740 you know it's it's not just about the act of needing material uh needing materiel a lot of

00:27:25.080 it for especially for like the you know the actresses who are shoplifting there's a kind

00:27:28.140 of thrill in it right it's something else that's being satiated because it's not like these people

00:27:32.680 are poor or something like that so like the argument oh it's just material things like no

00:27:36.620 i mean don't get me wrong there will be that sort of percentage of of petty criminals who are like

00:27:41.460 oh yeah i need bread for my family therefore i have to go and steal it from a shop yeah okay

00:27:45.260 fair enough and in those cases the argument against it being economic well i mean there's

00:27:49.640 been a whole bunch of arguments against it being economic but for a really strong one is during

00:27:53.780 the great depression criminality rates did not go up during recessions criminality does not go up

00:27:59.360 um criminality does correlate with other factors other demographic factors uh race being one of

00:28:07.860 them but poverty is not one but i mean let me push back a bit on your argument because look i've got

00:28:13.440 i won't i won't go into all of them but i've got a whole bunch of studies i look through here

00:28:17.360 and basically i mean they all kind of say um that actually yeah prison especially in fact the worst

00:28:25.140 one is short sentences whichever one a whole bunch of them say that kind of thing but basically if

00:28:29.940 you if you put somebody into prison short term actually what you're doing is you're just putting

00:28:35.100 them into a crime university and re-offending actually goes up after uh they come out and

00:28:42.500 they're more effective criminals and they've now got a network they know they now know who the

00:28:46.740 players are they know what how all those people in there what they went in there for and actually

00:28:52.180 crime actually gets worse after short prison sentences so i actually do think there is an

00:28:57.440 argument that we can agree with the left on this that actually prison is not the solution at least

00:29:02.680 for minor crimes that like you know two years in prison oh no i wouldn't use it for serious crimes

00:29:08.000 well sure but that's a different so yes what are you saying then well or less serious crimes

00:29:13.420 Because in Bowesboro, I would have repeat offenders

00:29:16.920 if it's like three strikes or something, even for minor crimes.

00:29:20.040 You get a very, very long custodial sentence

00:29:22.100 until you're middle-aged or you're old even.

00:29:23.560 Why are you so moderate?

00:29:26.560 But yeah, because you're absolutely right.

00:29:28.320 And that is true, isn't it?

00:29:29.420 That you might go into prison as a very, very minor,

00:29:32.560 one, two-time type criminal, and it's like a university type situation.

00:29:36.460 You become much better, much harder, a better network.

00:29:39.320 You become more of a criminal, if anything.

00:29:40.700 Yeah.

00:29:41.360 But what if you're thrown in there for 30 years and your will is broken?

00:29:46.220 So these studies also do find that long sentences do work

00:29:49.460 because they're not able to commit a crime because they're in prison.

00:29:53.600 But also younger men are more likely to commit crimes.

00:29:57.540 Actually, one of them makes that point explicitly,

00:30:00.760 that basically if you can keep them in there, I think past 35

00:30:03.740 or something like that.

00:30:04.720 The propensity to commit.

00:30:06.220 Yeah, it falls off a cliff actually.

00:30:07.720 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:09.060 Particularly violent crime.

00:30:11.040 Yes.

00:30:11.860 Because you're just, it's a young,

00:30:14.540 being violent is a young man's game, basically.

00:30:17.580 I bet it correlates testosterone in men, to be honest.

00:30:20.480 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much the same graph.

00:30:22.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:22.940 But I mean, you all know, Beau,

00:30:24.460 that for a long time we didn't use prisons,

00:30:27.660 or if we did use prisons,

00:30:29.640 they were basically where you were kept

00:30:31.260 while you were waiting to go to trial

00:30:33.400 or waiting to be punished.

00:30:34.700 For a long time we didn't use prisons.

00:30:37.700 Not particularly.

00:30:38.380 I mean, we used it for debtors and stuff.

00:30:40.260 Debt is jail.

00:30:41.120 Yes.

00:30:41.400 We've had prisons since many times.

00:30:44.480 Well, yes, but quite often it was while you were waiting

00:30:47.440 for your punishment.

00:30:48.980 Right, okay, I'll spell you.

00:30:50.160 Yes.

00:30:50.900 Depends what century you're talking about.

00:30:52.480 Yeah, there are alternatives.

00:30:54.380 Like deportation to Australia.

00:30:56.380 Deportations, whippings.

00:30:58.420 I'm totally in favour of flogging.

00:30:59.580 The pillory.

00:31:00.580 And anything that's like a five-year jail sentence,

00:31:03.260 skip it, just flog them.

00:31:04.760 Ten lashes.

00:31:05.720 The birch.

00:31:06.140 I mean, there was a good argument for that.

00:31:07.500 The cat.

00:31:07.900 Because rather than sending tickets,

00:31:08.900 I looked this up.

00:31:09.900 16% of the British public agree with me as well.

00:31:12.240 So, you know, base brothers, we'll bring back the birch.

00:31:14.760 And 16% is more than enough to find candidates to do the whipping.

00:31:18.340 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:31:19.580 It's only like really 1% or 2% of the population you need to.

00:31:22.160 So Singapore does.

00:31:23.000 I don't understand the squeamishness of this.

00:31:25.120 It's like, oh, here's a guy who stole, like, you know,

00:31:27.560 an old lady's last pennies, and so she had to go hungry.

00:31:32.140 And so, yeah, I'd whip him.

00:31:33.040 Why wouldn't you?

00:31:34.200 Yes.

00:31:34.420 And people who steal from old women.

00:31:35.980 Also people who steal from Greggs.

00:31:37.280 i'm just playing devil's advocate here because i do actually large i do actually agree with you

00:31:42.360 um but is that necessarily deterrent when you've got someone that's like

00:31:45.820 fine i'll take 10 lashes i've taken 10 lashes a dozen times before go on then do your worst i

00:31:50.500 think those people would be few and far between well yeah it'd be one or two percent of the

00:31:53.840 population at the same time we could just hang those all right the gibbet yes yeah the gibbet

00:31:58.180 like the the average sort of you know young man who's like oh i might just try and steal from

00:32:03.200 gregs because no one's going to stop me if they knew that if they got caught they're just going

00:32:07.380 to get flogged with 10 lashes i think they wouldn't do it certainly some wouldn't i think a large

00:32:13.300 percentage of those maybe and you know those that do what's the recidivism rate after they've been

00:32:18.740 flogged a couple of times probably not that high i mean the only sort of modern nation that does

00:32:23.940 it is singapore but but the problem with singapore is that they have quite an effective and efficient

00:32:28.900 state they've got quite high state state capacity okay whereas here it's just a bloody mess that's

00:32:34.840 true i mean loads of muslim countries there's oh no i'm i'm i'm i'm considering singapore to be a

00:32:41.860 sort of fair it's a place where i would consider living okay yeah all right fair enough as in not

00:32:46.820 there's not much theft in saudi arabia is there you know exactly yes and that's the thing like i

00:32:52.040 i've had friends who've lived in saudi arabia and they were saying yeah it's like midday or

00:32:56.500 whatever they they go off and do whatever they do and they just put a blanket over their their goods

00:33:00.700 and they just leave them there and nobody takes anything and i was like and i remember he was i

00:33:04.180 was 16 i was like why he's like because they'll chop your finger off and they'll chop your hand

00:33:08.300 off and they'll chop your head off i was like system works yeah i'm being afraid of the king's

00:33:15.100 men yes i mean there's two places that i've heard that can do that one is japan where i know people

00:33:20.300 in fact was it was it con or something but somebody we know went to japan they left their

00:33:25.300 phone at a train station on a little cafe on a bit by main concourse for whatever reason forgot

00:33:31.200 it got on a train went out all day came back after a full day went back to the counter and

00:33:37.140 it was still there you know that'd be a great social experiment to do wouldn't it buy like

00:33:40.580 cheap phone in japan like a 50 quid worth phone away you know the cheapest phone just leave it

00:33:45.060 on the thing and just you know set up a video camera like you know 100 meters away and just

00:33:49.300 see how long it's there for but there seems to be only two ways that you can do that one

00:33:53.180 be in japan i don't know if japan would do it today because because they've had a bit more

00:33:58.480 immigration but one is be japan and the other is be saudi arabia which has a very different

00:34:04.040 underlying substrate we used to have a society like that and it was because we had capital

00:34:09.180 punishment well here's an argument against it so so one argument against doing away prison

00:34:15.220 is oh who was that guy who stabbed austin metcalf i can't remember his name now um

00:34:21.260 Carmelo Anthony.

00:34:25.280 Carmelo Anthony, okay.

00:34:26.320 Right on the tip, my turn.

00:34:27.660 I remember being actually quite surprised

00:34:29.960 that Carmelo Anthony got sentenced for it

00:34:32.680 because it's got to the point now where I thought,

00:34:35.460 well, if the demographics of the jury are a certain way,

00:34:38.720 he will just be let off.

00:34:39.920 And you've seen this more and more.

00:34:41.720 I think in that case he did have an all-white jury.

00:34:44.200 No, no, it wasn't an all-white jury.

00:34:46.120 It was just no blacks on the jury.

00:34:47.800 Oh, that's right, that's right, that's right.

00:34:49.000 So there was like a Mexican and an Asian,

00:34:50.600 but it wasn't any blacks.

00:34:51.840 But what would have happened if it was an all-black jury?

00:34:54.060 He would have got the OJ treatment, yeah.

00:34:57.740 So, again, casting this back to historical roots,

00:35:00.640 I mean, why did we get rid of hanging in this country?

00:35:04.500 Well, you tell me, but...

00:35:05.520 Well, I know why.

00:35:06.720 The let him have it thing, isn't it?

00:35:09.720 There's the argument of you might accidentally hang the wrong person.

00:35:13.320 Wait.

00:35:14.180 I wasn't.

00:35:15.020 They made a film, didn't they, called Let Him Have It?

00:35:17.460 Yeah, but that wasn't it.

00:35:18.120 right so that was that was one of the main political reasons why they started i can tell

00:35:22.640 you what so i actually i looked into this and i went and read the parliamentary debates right

00:35:26.680 so there's a chap called sydney silverman was parachuted in he was the second generation uh

00:35:31.620 immigrant of a romanian jew who had looked at the current system and was like i don't like hanging

00:35:38.260 it's like that's because you're not english the english people fucking love hanging which is why

00:35:41.860 more than half of them now are in favor of it right but it's after but so he he gets into parliament

00:35:46.660 and this is his uh flagship thing and he was considered a real radical as well he wasn't

00:35:51.260 letting the government because he was really really left-wing um and so i read through a

00:35:55.240 bunch of the debates that are on the parliamentary website now the arguments were never you might get

00:36:00.420 the wrong guy the arguments were we think that some other way will be more effective of deterring

00:36:07.420 crime and it's like well i think actually there's nothing more effective in deterring crime than

00:36:13.880 killing the guy for it.

00:36:15.720 You certainly can't do it twice.

00:36:17.420 So that is not what I was taught at History A level.

00:36:19.920 What I was taught at History A level

00:36:21.360 was that the reason they got rid of it

00:36:23.460 is because you kept on getting nine-year-old boys

00:36:26.000 who'd stolen a loaf of bread

00:36:27.220 and the juries refused to convict.

00:36:29.940 I'll dig them up for you afterwards, if you like.

00:36:32.020 Well, no, that is interesting.

00:36:33.100 What was your perspective?

00:36:34.100 I was just going to say, I'm not sure.

00:36:35.180 I think there's conflicting data

00:36:38.240 around whether the death penalty

00:36:40.700 actually reduces crime all that much

00:36:43.480 because quite often people that do a crime of passion,

00:36:45.540 they're going to do it regardless of whether they live in a state

00:36:47.600 that has the capital punishment or not.

00:36:49.460 But anyway, it's interesting the guy you said,

00:36:51.840 but there's the narrative I was taught about at a certain point

00:36:55.280 in the 50s into the early 60s.

00:36:58.160 And there was one particular case.

00:36:59.140 You know, often this happens.

00:37:00.100 One case can and does change the system, can change the public opinion,

00:37:03.760 like the Stephen Lawrence murder, for example,

00:37:06.560 actually got institutions changed.

00:37:08.340 There's this one case where these two young lads were,

00:37:11.340 they'd broken and entered into something a cop turns up one of them shoots the cop dead but he

00:37:16.600 was too young to face capital punishment he was only 16 the other guy that was with who didn't

00:37:21.500 even touch the gun he got sentenced to death and hung and there was some sort of there was some

00:37:28.220 sort of like public outrage called into probably the bleeding heart liberal narrative yes there

00:37:32.580 was some sort of sea change in public opinion that that was just an injustice it wasn't right

00:37:36.440 it wasn't fair and they made a film out of it and etc etc so i don't appear too liberal but i would

00:37:40.900 be in favour of putting the 16 year old in prison until he's 18 and then hang right i'm up for that

00:37:45.460 no i'll tell you i'll tell you where i was going in my thought experiment though so so i was always

00:37:49.140 told that the reason that um they got rid of capital punishment was because you'd have people

00:37:55.160 the juries would be would refuse to convict people knowing that the punishment was going to be a

00:38:01.180 hanging because they didn't want it on their conscience yes and and therefore in order to get

00:38:05.700 any punishment through at all they had to get rid of hanging and then go to jail now my argument is

00:38:11.580 is in the okay i know the camelo anthony case didn't turn out just on that oh no no quickly

00:38:16.800 finish the thought but but for example the the the asian guys in manchester who broke the police

00:38:21.640 woman's nose and basically got away with it um the i mean obviously what happened there is there

00:38:27.620 was too many people on the jury i mean they were co-ethnics fine but too many people on the jury

00:38:32.680 who didn't want to convict and therefore it's the same argument as the hanging all over again

00:38:38.240 that you can't get these cases past the jury unless you lower it so there could be an argument

00:38:44.860 if we're going to live in a multi-ethnic society you need to take away prison and go to something

00:38:49.860 else in order to be able to convict people for anything at all otherwise the Jews will just let

00:38:53.860 them off sure um but the the issue is it needed a uh the the entire jury to convict as guilty to

00:39:02.540 be qualified for the death penalty but i didn't mean they weren't guilty so if you had like a

00:39:07.260 three quarters or two thirds jury um that still meant they were guilty they just couldn't be

00:39:12.340 killed right and so this it didn't mean they just got off right and what you're thinking of is the

00:39:17.040 kind of ethnic particularity that apparently the welsh were really guilty of where the entire jury

00:39:22.380 would just vote not guilty or the majority would vote not guilty oh so they were the pakistanis of

00:39:26.440 and ironically and i saw i i cut what was the name of the bloody book i read not it was last

00:39:30.860 year i read this book about basically it was it's just a comprehensive study from a chap at

00:39:35.720 liverpool university who'd done a comprehensive study of essentially all the um the details of

00:39:42.220 certain constituencies in britain certain counties in britain where they had sufficient records about

00:39:46.500 the death penalty right and what what he found is actually like on the online right have this

00:39:51.220 theory oh like if we just kill one percent no there was nowhere near one percent of people

00:39:55.160 hanged right it was literally like a couple of hundred people a year in the whole of britain

00:39:59.760 were hanged and this was clustered around london where you know there's lots of people moving to

00:40:04.440 the area right but there were lots of areas in britain where um you didn't have very much

00:40:08.600 population movement and very few people i mean literally go like entire years with zero people

00:40:12.860 being hanged right and this could happen concurrently um but it was conversely in wales

00:40:18.380 you would get literally

00:40:20.180 there was this one particular quote where it's like

00:40:22.040 I can't remember what it was, it's easier to do

00:40:24.420 something than get a Welshman hanged or something

00:40:26.320 because the Welsh juries would literally tribally

00:40:28.420 be like no no we'll deal with this in our community

00:40:30.540 we're not going to deal with this through the

00:40:32.400 interface with the law and so

00:40:34.440 it became essentially the courts kind of became

00:40:36.520 an English thing where

00:40:37.880 the Welsh sort of tribes would be

00:40:40.540 like no we're not going to deal with that we'll

00:40:42.300 punish him in our way through social

00:40:44.580 they actually punished them though

00:40:45.820 well I assume they did I don't know you know

00:40:47.820 I mean, I don't know, right?

00:40:49.660 That's not recorded in the records, right?

00:40:53.260 But so the interface with jury trial and the court system,

00:40:57.100 it's mostly English, that's the thing,

00:40:59.700 and that's a very English conceit.

00:41:01.660 But I've got Sidney Silverman's statement up, right?

00:41:04.360 Because I'm, oh, the fuck's saying now,

00:41:05.980 I've got an adverts popped up.

00:41:07.220 But I've got his statement up, right?

00:41:08.600 So he says, he goes through this long debate

00:41:12.780 in 1964 in Parliament where people are going,

00:41:15.360 because he's proposing a private members bill, right?

00:41:17.200 The government was officially neutral on this.

00:41:19.720 It was a private member's bill.

00:41:20.840 Maybe I'll have to vote with our consciences.

00:41:22.960 But he characterizes his opponent's arguments and says,

00:41:27.160 in other words, they concede that there is no deterrent,

00:41:29.560 no unique deterrent, no exclusively effective deterrent

00:41:31.940 in the death penalty to most murders,

00:41:34.120 but claims there is a uniquely deterrent effect

00:41:36.120 in respect of some murders.

00:41:37.600 I concede that this argument, which I have to deal,

00:41:41.200 and will deal with as shortly as I can very soon,

00:41:46.040 all i am concerned to establish now and i have concerned to establish so far is that nobody

00:41:50.660 thinks substantially there is any other question to be decided right so the debate they were having

00:41:55.760 is is the death penalty a deterrent and i think that that completely slides the conversation into

00:42:02.280 an area that is purely utilitarian that's not what the death penalty is for and that's not why

00:42:08.140 even now most english people want the death penalty back because what we're thinking of

00:42:14.080 are the cosmic scales of justice.

00:42:16.760 When you murder a child, for example,

00:42:18.980 Axel Rudakabana,

00:42:20.480 you have taken on a moral debt to the...

00:42:23.180 Yeah, they don't think like that at all.

00:42:24.240 No amount of utilitarianism

00:42:26.260 will make me not want him flayed alive in public.

00:42:30.240 Yes.

00:42:30.500 This is for what you did to these three girls.

00:42:33.360 Oh, for him, hanging is the moderate option.

00:42:36.380 It's the left-wing option, right?

00:42:37.900 Yes.

00:42:38.320 You know, the absolute mess

00:42:40.800 that should be made of Axel Rudakabana

00:42:42.440 in public by the government

00:42:44.020 so we can all sit there and cheer

00:42:44.960 that proper justice has been delivered there.

00:42:47.440 That's what people are thinking of.

00:42:48.860 But you'll notice how he slid this into,

00:42:50.600 well, it's not deterring other crimes, is it?

00:42:52.220 I don't care.

00:42:53.080 That's kind of what that woman that I put up,

00:42:55.180 that's kind of what she was saying.

00:42:56.740 It's that all over again.

00:42:58.780 Yes, whereas the actual concern that people have

00:43:01.380 is that there is a moral debt

00:43:03.040 that has been taken on by the murderer,

00:43:05.120 by the criminal,

00:43:06.080 that needs to be paid back in blood.

00:43:08.180 That's the only way.

00:43:08.900 Nietzsche had this right.

00:43:09.760 This is the only way we can get the catharsis

00:43:11.780 of knowing that the moral order of the universe

00:43:14.300 is returned to rights is when these people suffer.

00:43:17.420 But actually, I do think the left-wing argument

00:43:19.320 that prison doesn't...

00:43:21.560 Well, it doesn't disincentivise

00:43:23.460 because people don't think they're going to get caught

00:43:24.860 in the first place.

00:43:26.140 But then no punishment disincentivises on that logic.

00:43:28.280 Yes.

00:43:29.600 And some people are going to do their crime of passion

00:43:32.620 regardless.

00:43:33.680 Yes.

00:43:34.120 But nonetheless...

00:43:35.020 And also I take the point of all of these studies

00:43:38.300 that actually short-term prison sentences are disastrous

00:43:40.940 because they basically just teach you

00:43:42.620 how to be a better criminal.

00:43:44.200 So genuinely, I do think there is a reasonable case

00:43:47.200 of doing something else.

00:43:47.900 Like what?

00:43:48.780 Flogging?

00:43:49.680 Hangings.

00:43:51.440 Deportations.

00:43:52.480 We have the solutions.

00:43:54.280 So let's say you're like,

00:43:55.820 the one case that really annoyed me recently,

00:43:58.240 I haven't got the clip,

00:43:59.000 but it was this kid in a shopping centre

00:44:01.120 who froze like a sofa thing off a high balcony

00:44:05.180 and it just misses a bunch of people.

00:44:07.000 It could have easily killed a person.

00:44:08.480 It definitely would have killed a child.

00:44:09.860 and he got a slap on the wrist like a three-week community

00:44:13.180 deferred sentence or something like that.

00:44:15.200 So somebody like that, flogging and branding.

00:44:18.560 And I would just...

00:44:20.280 Branding?

00:44:20.980 Yes.

00:44:21.480 Yes, this is a criminal.

00:44:23.160 Yes, I mean, I don't know where the...

00:44:24.440 I'm for flogging, I'm for the pillory branding.

00:44:26.600 Yes, cat of nine tails, whatever it is.

00:44:30.940 Let's go Byzantine, cut the nose off.

00:44:33.260 I don't know.

00:44:34.080 That's too far.

00:44:35.200 That's too far.

00:44:36.240 Maybe not for a first offence, but no.

00:44:38.900 i would i would flog them and brand i haven't thought where the brands are going to go i mean

00:44:43.060 you've just flogged their back so the back might be a bit raw so maybe you can have like i don't

00:44:46.860 know a big x on the arm or something like that and when you get up to i don't know you can use

00:44:51.820 different sizes maybe the left arm can be big x's if you commit a reasonably serious crime

00:44:57.500 you get a big x and you can only get three of those and your head gets cut off or if it's a

00:45:01.920 more if it's like stealing from gregs it's a much smaller egg x and you need like 10 of them and

00:45:07.940 And then you get your head cut off.

00:45:09.940 But you wouldn't have to do prisons.

00:45:12.220 You're hurting these people, which is the only thing they understand.

00:45:14.260 Because the other thing I think, right, I think for us,

00:45:16.680 if we went to prison and it was 23 hours a day in a cell,

00:45:20.700 and if we weren't allowed books, we just had to sit in a cell

00:45:22.900 and stare at a wall, we would be driven mad.

00:45:25.080 I'd write the most incredible manifesto.

00:45:28.240 Well, assuming you're allowed.

00:45:30.520 Yeah, what if they don't allow you any writing?

00:45:32.760 For high IQ people, locking them in a box is absolute torture.

00:45:36.940 I think for some of the people that we get most upset about,

00:45:40.040 the actual Ruda Cabanas,

00:45:41.200 I don't think he experiences time the way we do.

00:45:44.480 I think he's just, something is happening to me

00:45:46.900 or not happening to me right now.

00:45:48.240 He could easily sit in prison for 50 years

00:45:50.160 and it wouldn't particularly affect him

00:45:52.220 because he's just getting fed, he's going to sleep,

00:45:54.500 he's waking up, he might get a bit bored.

00:45:55.900 He's probably playing PlayStation, you know?

00:45:57.560 Yeah.

00:45:59.080 So I'm with the lefties.

00:46:01.580 Let's get rid of prison.

00:46:03.480 But my solution is not the same as their solution,

00:46:06.020 which is to tax people and spread it out a bit more.

00:46:09.280 My solution is something else.

00:46:11.660 Could I get you on board with that, Bo?

00:46:13.300 Sure, yeah.

00:46:14.340 Right.

00:46:14.720 Oh, absolutely.

00:46:15.460 I want you around.

00:46:16.040 The guy you mentioned, who is it, the Romanian Jew guy?

00:46:18.920 Sidney Silverman.

00:46:19.720 Sidney Silverman.

00:46:20.880 And this woman.

00:46:22.100 Yeah.

00:46:22.480 And all the others.

00:46:23.160 I simply don't believe them that they're interested in crime statistics

00:46:29.660 or anything like that.

00:46:30.880 I don't believe them for a moment.

00:46:33.140 They just want to ruin our society.

00:46:35.440 They just want to make us less safe.

00:46:37.980 Yes, that's completely true.

00:46:38.700 It's as simple as that.

00:46:39.880 But they view the act of someone being criminalised by the system

00:46:43.760 as itself an oppression and an injustice.

00:46:46.340 So as far as they're concerned,

00:46:47.660 you are culpable in the oppression of these poor criminals

00:46:49.980 because you pay taxes and follow the laws.

00:46:52.580 So for them, having these criminals out to be able to victimise you,

00:46:56.700 well, that's equality and that's justice

00:46:57.880 because you're doing the same to them.

00:46:58.840 And I would point out all the rising stars of the Democrat Party

00:47:01.220 on board with this.

00:47:01.900 So Madami here is, but the entire squad,

00:47:05.060 like AOC and Illinois and all the rest of them,

00:47:07.600 Rashid something or other.

00:47:09.340 They're all in favour of this getting into prison idea.

00:47:11.940 They're the representatives of the lumpenproletariat

00:47:13.720 against the white overculture.

00:47:15.260 I mean, Mandami literally said,

00:47:16.660 we're going to come for white people's property.

00:47:19.060 They're not subtle about this.

00:47:20.820 It's very explicit what they're trying to do.

00:47:23.540 It's odd how he was able to win that election.

00:47:29.020 Because it's been diversified and he's like,

00:47:31.260 I'm going to give you white people's stuff.

00:47:33.120 That easy.

00:47:33.960 I mean, when you look at the breakdown of who lives in New York,

00:47:39.000 there's lots and lots of different types of people

00:47:41.860 that wouldn't necessarily, you would think, lend themselves to that worldview.

00:47:45.580 Is majority, I think minority.

00:47:48.300 Is it?

00:47:49.100 Yeah.

00:47:49.640 And there are quite a lot of rich and middle-class people

00:47:51.720 and Jewish people in there that someone like Mamdani doesn't feel...

00:47:55.080 Well, they're the minority now. I'm sure they're the minority.

00:47:57.420 Maybe they are.

00:47:58.360 Yeah.

00:47:59.300 Right, so from the comments, Siglestone says,

00:48:02.920 In Bowes, Britain, head punishment officer Dan

00:48:05.780 enjoys his job way too much.

00:48:07.300 I would, indeed.

00:48:08.920 I think punishing criminals is a good thing.

00:48:11.220 Yes.

00:48:11.820 I just think physical punishment of criminals.

00:48:14.460 Well, you know I'm quite good on lads hour of inventing games.

00:48:18.280 If I could use that creative energy on inventing punishments

00:48:21.300 and then every Friday we've got the punishment day,

00:48:24.460 the executions day, and I've come up with a new idea

00:48:27.160 of how it's done.

00:48:28.300 There's a quick thing here.

00:48:29.240 In 2020, white people were only 30.89% of New York.

00:48:33.920 New York City?

00:48:34.740 Yeah.

00:48:35.500 Wow.

00:48:35.820 There you go.

00:48:36.780 Well, there you go.

00:48:37.240 There's nearly 9 million people in New York City

00:48:39.520 and far fewer people in the surrounding regions.

00:48:41.840 I didn't think it was as low as that.

00:48:43.180 30-odd percent.

00:48:44.360 Wow, okay.

00:48:45.420 I am a big fan of the gibbet,

00:48:47.800 which is one way to describe the actual structure

00:48:52.120 for hanging people.

00:48:53.260 But also, it's where you just put someone in a cage,

00:48:56.440 effectively a cage, and they're left there.

00:48:59.000 They're not hung.

00:49:00.020 They're just left there.

00:49:00.920 Very small cage.

00:49:02.180 Yeah, where you can't move.

00:49:03.320 Yes.

00:49:03.920 How long are they left there for?

00:49:05.460 Well, until you die of exposure or thirst or dehydration.

00:49:08.120 You get three days, maybe four days at most.

00:49:10.600 I like that one.

00:49:11.080 But you're just left there to, like,

00:49:13.460 the psychological horror of that as well.

00:49:16.180 Yes.

00:49:17.100 Because it's much, much slower than hanging.

00:49:19.180 You know the old phrase, hanging is too good for them.

00:49:21.200 Oh, no, hanging is a softy option.

00:49:25.140 Yeah, it's very liberal.

00:49:26.140 It's the medieval gibbet, that's what I say.

00:49:27.660 Tom Ratt says

00:49:28.700 I think just hanging is fine

00:49:30.100 okay

00:49:30.480 you don't want people

00:49:32.260 to be able to object

00:49:32.980 to the thing right

00:49:33.720 well yeah but they

00:49:35.180 already have rejected

00:49:36.000 in like 1830

00:49:37.000 to hanging

00:49:37.540 no no no

00:49:38.660 that was 1964

00:49:39.640 all right

00:49:40.820 yeah

00:49:41.280 what I want to do

00:49:43.160 is have a government

00:49:43.820 that says

00:49:44.840 we're going to rub

00:49:45.840 the left's nose

00:49:46.640 in hanging

00:49:47.180 we were basically

00:49:48.320 the last country

00:49:49.320 in Europe

00:49:49.660 to abolish the death penalty

00:49:50.680 and like

00:49:51.300 all through the

00:49:52.080 early 20th century

00:49:53.420 you'd get

00:49:54.340 European academics

00:49:55.860 writing about

00:49:56.740 England's barbarism

00:49:58.200 when it came to this

00:49:59.220 and it's like

00:49:59.540 no we're the moral people

00:50:00.820 yes I checked

00:50:01.480 to restore the moral balance

00:50:02.760 of the universe

00:50:03.280 1964

00:50:04.000 Peter Allen

00:50:05.360 and Gwaine Evans

00:50:06.880 hung on the 13th of August

00:50:08.880 1964

00:50:09.440 and the

00:50:10.340 the Moors murderers

00:50:11.480 was it Myra Hindley

00:50:12.500 and

00:50:12.880 what's the other guy's name

00:50:14.440 yes

00:50:14.900 that cliff

00:50:15.420 no no he's the

00:50:16.520 he's the

00:50:17.120 the Moors murderers

00:50:17.840 they escaped the death penalty

00:50:19.120 Ian Brady

00:50:19.700 yes they escaped the death

00:50:21.120 yes

00:50:21.360 and everyone was just like

00:50:23.120 we should be hanging them

00:50:23.920 it's like yes we should be

00:50:24.700 hanging them

00:50:25.120 but because Sidney Silverman

00:50:26.620 doesn't like it

00:50:27.620 because it doesn't

00:50:28.120 prevent further hangings

00:50:29.320 then we can't do it

00:50:30.480 it's like oh

00:50:30.980 boo hoo

00:50:32.240 Dan quickly look up

00:50:33.020 when was the last

00:50:33.620 guillotine in France

00:50:34.320 because I think that

00:50:34.820 was in the 20th century

00:50:35.800 I think that might have

00:50:36.840 been like even as late

00:50:38.000 as the 1950s

00:50:38.820 I think you're

00:50:39.460 no it's not quite

00:50:40.520 that late I think

00:50:40.940 in 1969 the abolition

00:50:43.280 and murder was made

00:50:43.980 permanent

00:50:44.440 oh no it was 1977

00:50:48.240 the last person

00:50:49.340 to be guillotined

00:50:49.860 was 1977

00:50:50.540 he was a Tunisian

00:50:51.700 immigrant

00:50:52.140 of course it was

00:50:54.080 Hamid

00:50:54.640 Jan Duby

00:50:56.620 oh he taught he tortured and murdered his uh french girlfriend um i might have to get going

00:51:03.160 because there's loads of them um let me see go ahead all right so where do we start i think i

00:51:09.360 did we read that that logan pine one i think we did that was last one okay right so um oh no maybe

00:51:15.640 we didn't oh bloody hell are these are these all mine samson starting with bald eagle

00:51:21.240 a bit of power

00:51:22.960 for you

00:51:23.160 right

00:51:23.320 Bald Eagle says

00:51:24.740 right of centre

00:51:25.820 they're likely

00:51:26.400 going to be useless

00:51:27.560 if they win

00:51:28.140 that's a French one

00:51:29.140 okay

00:51:29.720 people think

00:51:33.920 prisons are

00:51:34.720 white men

00:51:35.240 in uniforms

00:51:35.900 yes

00:51:36.940 Logan Pine says

00:51:38.620 news from California

00:51:39.760 Gavin Newsom

00:51:40.380 is having his

00:51:41.000 bunker moment

00:51:41.760 as the Lib Dems

00:51:42.720 look to be throwing

00:51:43.420 as the Dim Dems

00:51:45.420 look to be throwing

00:51:46.000 him away

00:51:46.920 as a sacrifice

00:51:47.500 yes

00:51:47.760 I've noticed

00:51:48.100 it's their best option

00:51:48.900 well no

00:51:49.780 he's radically

00:51:50.580 declined in the betting odds

00:51:52.340 down to like 20%.

00:51:53.280 Has he?

00:51:53.860 Yeah.

00:51:54.600 Because he's too right-wing now.

00:51:56.940 See, I like one-for-one paladins here, right?

00:51:58.900 Petty crimes flogged and released.

00:52:00.240 Yeah.

00:52:00.780 White-collar crimes,

00:52:01.540 property season flogged.

00:52:02.640 Anything less than 10 years in prison

00:52:03.980 is hard labour.

00:52:04.940 Anything above 10 years in prison

00:52:06.160 is hanging.

00:52:06.660 Yes.

00:52:07.280 Yes, that.

00:52:07.980 Perfect.

00:52:08.500 Yes.

00:52:09.180 There we go.

00:52:09.360 Probably how it was in like 1870.

00:52:11.600 Done and dusted.

00:52:13.040 Siglson says abolish prisons

00:52:14.420 and set the criminals loose

00:52:15.800 in the leftist neighbourhoods.

00:52:17.020 Yeah, the problem is

00:52:17.720 I live in a leftist neighbourhood

00:52:19.980 because anywhere would be guns as leftists these days.

00:52:22.840 If you're going to kill two birds with one stone, yeah, no,

00:52:25.140 we'd have to move the leftists first to like a walled up place.

00:52:29.160 The Engaged View says give criminals free rope and then stretch their necks with it.

00:52:33.140 Fortunate Barber says is Dan in the middle or is Bo on twice today?

00:52:37.580 No, we did think about doing that, having two bows on today,

00:52:40.480 but I thought that would just, you know, cause psychological issues for the audience.

00:52:44.600 Oclador, I don't know, I don't know, getting flogged for defending yourself.

00:52:48.260 yeah modern police

00:52:49.380 yeah so that's the

00:52:50.080 problem is if we did

00:52:51.480 it under the current

00:52:52.260 system yeah it'd be a

00:52:53.760 bloody disaster because

00:52:54.500 the police would attack

00:52:55.300 you and then you get

00:52:56.360 flogged as well yes

00:52:57.640 all right um scott

00:52:59.720 sign guy says i

00:53:00.740 sometimes wonder how

00:53:01.720 much uh of puritanism

00:53:03.500 of the victorian era

00:53:04.680 caused the high trust

00:53:06.180 modern britain yeah

00:53:07.200 probably a lot of it

00:53:08.280 to be honest the

00:53:08.960 victorians did take

00:53:09.960 morality very seriously

00:53:11.580 yes in a strangely

00:53:13.080 like you know like

00:53:14.360 non-ideological way as

00:53:15.540 well it wasn't

00:53:15.980 propositional it was

00:53:16.680 all traditional morality

00:53:17.760 Ramshackle says

00:53:19.220 in the Navy

00:53:20.260 to frequent flogging

00:53:21.920 often turned men

00:53:22.880 further towards mutiny

00:53:24.100 as it broke their spirits

00:53:25.120 and publicly shamed them

00:53:26.240 it had to be

00:53:27.160 an infrequent punishment

00:53:28.020 for crimes

00:53:28.980 that truly warranted

00:53:30.380 yes

00:53:30.720 stepping on my grass

00:53:32.200 being a bit loud

00:53:35.080 on Sunday morning

00:53:35.940 when I'm trying

00:53:36.320 to have a live

00:53:36.780 yes twerking

00:53:37.400 on a Tuesday

00:53:38.300 Bald Eagle says

00:53:41.460 what Dan said

00:53:42.700 is typical

00:53:43.900 liberal story

00:53:44.880 for abolishing

00:53:45.840 capital punishment

00:53:46.680 kids back then

00:53:47.740 if court stealing were tossed to the parents

00:53:50.440 and forced to work for the victim to help restore them.

00:53:52.800 Well, yeah, I went to a Victorian prison in,

00:53:55.320 what was it, York or somewhere like that.

00:53:58.640 Me and my wife had gone for a little holiday somewhere.

00:54:02.020 I went to this Victorian prison

00:54:03.460 and we're walking around the prison

00:54:04.580 and the woman giving the tour,

00:54:07.360 it's like, oh, look, in 1867,

00:54:10.500 this 10-year-old stole whatever from wherever

00:54:14.580 and they were forced to do four months of hard labour,

00:54:17.180 which was folding sheets in prison.

00:54:19.120 And everyone was like, oh.

00:54:20.220 And I was like, good.

00:54:21.660 And they were all like, look,

00:54:22.340 and we're like, what?

00:54:23.260 And I'm like, why not?

00:54:24.260 There's nothing wrong with this.

00:54:25.240 They spent a couple of months folding sheets

00:54:26.920 and they didn't steal again, did they?

00:54:28.820 No.

00:54:29.000 It's the best summer they ever had.

00:54:29.960 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:30.700 It's the most productive summer they ever had.

00:54:32.100 Anyway.

00:54:32.680 Got something on their CV.

00:54:34.920 Quite right, Mr. White says,

00:54:36.440 at Bo, the issue was over the context

00:54:39.480 of the phrase, let him have it.

00:54:41.920 Yeah, I remember the way you called it.

00:54:43.740 Yeah, it's in the film.

00:54:44.360 The kid that got, I say kid,

00:54:45.500 The adult that got executed didn't have the gun,

00:54:48.080 but he said to the kid that did have the gun,

00:54:50.600 because the cop had said, give me the gun,

00:54:52.040 and he said, let him have it.

00:54:53.500 And it was whether he meant hand him the gun or let him have it,

00:54:56.640 shoot him.

00:54:57.820 And anyway, either way, all he did was say, let him have it,

00:55:00.480 and he got executed.

00:55:01.640 And the kid that actually pulled the trigger didn't.

00:55:03.680 Yeah, I know that.

00:55:04.280 I know.

00:55:04.600 Thanks.

00:55:04.760 But as Peter Hitchens pointed out,

00:55:06.400 it used to be that the criminals would pat each other down

00:55:09.500 to make sure none of them were carrying a gun in the early 1990s

00:55:12.260 because they would all be hanged

00:55:14.660 if one of them shot someone.

00:55:15.700 And I'm totally in favour of it.

00:55:16.820 Yeah, you went on a criminal enterprise

00:55:18.520 with some guy.

00:55:19.320 Yeah, fucking annual.

00:55:20.340 What are you doing?

00:55:21.700 Get out of my fucking existence.

00:55:23.980 Tiffinall says,

00:55:24.760 your schooling is controlled by communists.

00:55:27.480 They rewrite history.

00:55:28.460 I mean, that is the danger.

00:55:29.680 That is the danger.

00:55:30.440 That's why I went and literally,

00:55:31.800 that's why I get the Sydney Silverman.

00:55:33.500 Logan says,

00:55:34.180 man, this segment went off the rails.

00:55:35.560 I was hoping you'd talk about the communists.

00:55:37.340 So we do that another time.

00:55:39.700 Tom says,

00:55:40.440 I for one welcome Prime Minister Dan

00:55:41.860 and his loyal recidivist

00:55:43.300 branching system 12 stamps for stealing from gregs and you get a free coffee poured on your head

00:55:49.060 very good um signals to earner i did that one on base tape has come through um if someone ended my

00:55:56.840 child i would end their whole family the justice system is supposed to prevent vigilantism yes

00:56:01.580 when the state fails to prevent people will return uh yes i mean there was that case in

00:56:06.420 germany where this where this girl got assaulted by a bunch of 14 year olds and and basically the

00:56:11.400 judge sent them straight home and said look well what are we supposed to do their kids we can't

00:56:14.900 but i mean if your german father apart from saying to your women you cannot leave the house without

00:56:22.200 a male around you what what a lord abiding german supposed to do they're obviously pushing people

00:56:27.800 towards citizen vigilante style and he's right to prevent the vigilantism what you have to you have

00:56:33.820 to give the victims and their families the catharsis of seeing the satisfaction being

00:56:39.800 to be able to release it it has to be visited on the criminal yes and that's that's genuinely i

00:56:45.980 think nietzsche is completely right about that and i i totally endorse it anyway let's um let's move

00:56:50.760 on i suppose so everything about modern relationships is a total psyop right absolutely

00:56:55.640 everything like young people are getting psyoped out of the wazoo they have no idea what they're

00:57:00.200 doing and i'd like to use this meme as the jumping off point for this point you've seen the uh flower

00:57:06.860 cuck in a line meme have you this is the meme slightly um blurred there is a woman and they're

00:57:13.180 all her partners then there's you holding the flowers then there's further partners going on

00:57:17.060 and it's a demoralization propaganda saying basically uh don't don't get married to a woman

00:57:23.280 who uh lives in the real world and has had partners before you or don't get married to a

00:57:28.200 complete tar is another way of looking yeah but the the but it's but it's applied very very broadly

00:57:35.100 But the thing is, okay, fair enough.

00:57:37.120 This works, right?

00:57:38.280 This works because you're like, yeah,

00:57:39.940 if you actually envision your life, that's not good.

00:57:42.260 Why wouldn't I want a woman who has had fewer partners, right?

00:57:46.380 I saw the opposite of this meme going around, and it's this one.

00:57:50.220 As you can see, this woman here, sister, sis,

00:57:52.560 whatever you do in this life,

00:57:53.860 don't be the last lady holding the flowers.

00:57:56.960 What?

00:57:57.160 I mean, especially in this scenario,

00:57:59.000 there's no way that she's either going to be the last wife,

00:58:02.460 let alone the last in the queue,

00:58:04.360 Sure, but that's where every single woman would rather be.

00:58:09.320 Yes.

00:58:09.940 Because literally, women call men virgins as an insult.

00:58:15.220 No man has ever insulted a woman by calling her a virgin.

00:58:19.500 The paradigm is exactly the other way around, isn't it?

00:58:22.580 Precisely opposite.

00:58:23.540 And they always go to it.

00:58:25.800 I rarely engage with the comments on Twitter,

00:58:28.400 but if I ever do and it's a woman and she's got no comeback,

00:58:32.040 the comeback will be, oh, you're a virgin,

00:58:33.660 or you can't get girls you're something like that yeah it's always that i love being called

00:58:37.660 it's the funniest thing in the world like you know i've been married for 10 years i've got four

00:58:40.940 kids oh yeah i'm an intel because i'm slightly critical of women or something like that right

00:58:46.420 but this is the thing like this look at this the complete psyop on this is like no no no every

00:58:52.740 woman is like i'm i want a guy with experience i want a guy who's like mature in the world

00:58:57.040 and they i want an alpha it's what they want yes and an alpha means you will have had quite a lot

00:59:02.260 i want a man who is wanted by other women well and that sorry more that even yeah more that

00:59:07.280 exactly that right and a lot of women judge men by how attractive they are to other women and you

00:59:14.760 i'm sure that everyone everyone will have had this experience right so you're working in an office

00:59:20.040 or whatever and there's a girl there who you know she you know you got on really well there she gives

00:59:24.800 you the eye sort of thing and you ask her and she's oh no no i don't want to and then a month

00:59:29.360 later you get a girlfriend and suddenly she's all over you suddenly she's floating you say

00:59:33.040 but you it's like oh well now you've been judged by another woman i mean like this is another thing

00:59:39.080 as well married men who wear their wedding rings get hit on a lot i don't know you know one of the

00:59:44.000 reasons i don't wear a wedding room right like women women know that the best for them the best

00:59:50.060 judgment of a man is actually another woman's judgment was he worth investing in and things

00:59:54.580 like this and so every woman actually wants to be the woman who makes the bad boy stop being a bad

00:59:59.740 boy i mean that's literally what twilight and all of these bloody you know 50 shades of gray this is

01:00:04.260 what all of these things are about really experienced man hyper desirable but you're the

01:00:08.440 one that he wants and so every other woman you've beaten every other woman in the desirability stakes

01:00:13.840 is what that boils down to and so like i'm just i i looked at this and i was like yeah but this is

01:00:18.740 just a microcosm of how everything about men and women's relationships has been completely

01:00:24.340 demented you never hear a woman talking about how she's hoping to lock down a submissive virgin

01:00:29.540 yeah i was just gonna say that the opposite of what you're saying is that women do not want a

01:00:35.060 virgin no they really do are repelled by incels repelled by yeah yeah right exactly yeah it's

01:00:43.040 contemptible and and so like okay this makes sense for men because like yeah you don't want a woman

01:00:47.780 who is promiscuous but actually women judge men's quality by their promiscuity are there

01:00:54.100 ability to be promiscuous even if they aren't personally that way and so like this i just why

01:00:59.800 would a woman post this like you can see it's a woman who's posted why would a woman post this

01:01:03.860 because she saw the other one exactly right because she has been brainwashed against what

01:01:08.820 women are actually like and what she's actually going to do and so i'm just going to go into so

01:01:13.120 apparently um virginity has just been completely stigmatized now right just in both men and women

01:01:18.720 so and i've i've seen like destiny say this on his podcast it's like why would i want a virgin

01:01:24.380 she's not going to know what to do well because you'll teach her what to do retard yes what like

01:01:30.140 what why would like oh no i'm going to oh no yeah my lobster is too buttery

01:01:35.460 but like the point being in this right a recent study of 5 000 heterosexual adults in 2021 this

01:01:43.220 was uh in the united states both men and women reported they would be unlikely to enter a

01:01:47.100 relationship with someone who is a virgin and in fact men compared to women said they would be even

01:01:50.900 less willing to date a virgin what is happening to young men how have they been psyoped in to be

01:01:56.460 like no i need a slag i can't i'm not going to date someone who's not so so i did get that right

01:02:02.840 didn't i that even more men now yeah men compared to women said they'd be less willing to date a

01:02:09.180 virgin what okay we've got to do something about the zoomers is this zoomers or well i mean this

01:02:15.260 in 2021 they don't tell us what the age are right but i was gonna say it all depends though doesn't

01:02:19.980 it because this stage of my life our lives i wouldn't want a virgin that'd be weird it would

01:02:27.880 be a bit weird 40 plus year old men yeah but i mean if you're seeing a 30 year old woman who's

01:02:32.400 a virgin maybe i don't know i would be a little bit like what's wrong with you yeah well a little

01:02:38.780 bit how did you get this far exactly yeah if you're 18 okay okay but yeah if you're 30

01:02:44.660 Just date an 18-year-old, then?

01:02:47.540 That would be super weird.

01:02:49.040 21.

01:02:50.160 But the thing is,

01:02:52.720 but also people who are virgins themselves

01:02:55.700 said they would be less willing to date a virgin

01:02:57.940 than someone who's sexually experienced.

01:02:59.420 How is anyone getting laid?

01:03:02.620 This is like my drive to work in the morning

01:03:04.660 when, like, two lots of rows of cars

01:03:07.100 were trying to squeeze through a space

01:03:08.220 and they couldn't go anywhere.

01:03:09.320 Yeah, no one wants to go anywhere.

01:03:11.240 Even virgins said they didn't want to date other virgins.

01:03:13.540 what what is happening how does that make any sense well exactly it doesn't make any bloody

01:03:19.100 sense right um but the point being i mean you can see in a second study of 500 heterosexual adults

01:03:24.840 those who had not yet had sex felt the most stigmatized about their sexual history what

01:03:28.700 sexual history well yeah but still but the point being the lack of it is what we have got something

01:03:36.980 in our minds and modernity has put in our minds that actually not being promiscuous is somehow bad

01:03:43.060 it's like no obviously it's a good thing right it's obviously a good thing to not have had

01:03:48.700 a really promiscuous history and it's got to the point now where like the government

01:03:52.700 just demonizes virgin men yeah that is a weird thing isn't it well the incels they're a new

01:03:58.420 terror threat to the uk i've seen that in the news a number of times that they say the worry

01:04:04.400 is the right-wing incel pipes have you not seen that they say that quite regularly is it a far

01:04:10.040 right terrorist is being a virgin of far-right terrorist ideology no i mean when does the age

01:04:15.860 of criminal responsibility kick in or is it going to be like going around to five-year-old boys and

01:04:20.060 saying have you got laid yet right yeah you're coming with us yeah but there was but that's

01:04:25.180 the whole premise of adolescence right the 13 year old in adolescence is an incel murderer

01:04:30.980 is the premise but he's like he's 13 like give him a chance isn't that statutory rape one where

01:04:38.480 another even if he did get himself laid then the person is a statutory rapist like assume it wasn't

01:04:44.180 another 13 year old he had sex with but like the point being like we're stigmatizing teenage boys

01:04:50.340 for not being like alpha chads and the government's like well they must be terrorists it's like maybe

01:04:54.800 they're just teenagers wait wait everyone's a virgin until they're not it's like it's not your

01:04:59.600 fault is it like really wasn't a core part of that yeah but yeah so a core part of adolescence

01:05:05.200 that these young boys are watching andrew tate and therefore that's really bad but andrew tate is

01:05:13.100 is not an incel and therefore you're criminalized if you're not like andrew tate well interestingly

01:05:19.340 in adolescence andrew tate only comes up briefly um they mention him in passing but you are right

01:05:24.500 like it doesn't make sense because andrew tate isn't someone who he's not an incel influencer

01:05:28.840 he's actually the very opposite of what an incel influence so we're going to criminalize you if

01:05:33.260 you're a virgin but also we're going to demonize you if you're not yes yeah they also demonize

01:05:38.700 people that are into like pick up artistry yes that's also misogynistic and evil and bad yes

01:05:44.100 if you're an incel then you're also a terrorist adjacent i mean to be fair the pa stuff is just

01:05:50.080 baiters trying to be alphas so yeah right okay but the point is what's the message that we're

01:05:56.700 giving it right the message that we're giving here is that everyone's retarded and don't know

01:06:00.680 what they want right and so actually okay so you've got people who are like i'm a virgin therefore i'll

01:06:06.740 never have sex because no one wants to have sex with a virgin right for some reason but this is

01:06:12.160 like leading on to other problems so gen z are not getting married in their 20s right at all

01:06:18.920 so according to pure research in 1980 33 percent of adults were married by age 21 66 percent were

01:06:26.260 marriage by age 25 right 40 years later the statistics have dropped to six percent and 22

01:06:32.180 respectively so it people are waiting till they're well into their 30s if they do get married which

01:06:38.220 in turn then destroys the birth rate which exactly all of this about this is all like the spiral of

01:06:43.860 destroying the birth rate right but what what does this mean this means that you spend a lot your

01:06:48.560 entire youth your fertile years well desperately trying to lose your virginity i guess or having

01:06:55.420 multiple partners so you end up um kind of like like um more maybe more worldly wise than you

01:07:04.440 ought to be is the the way we should be looking at this because it's not like we don't have studies

01:07:08.880 about this right if you have fewer partners you have a happier marriage this this is like

01:07:14.960 universal as well right this is just for everyone i mean it's more pronounced for women than men

01:07:20.580 but according to the institute of family studies uh sociologists at the university of utah found

01:07:27.440 that americans who have only ever slept with their spouses are most likely to report being very happy

01:07:32.020 like almost three quarters of them like yeah i'm thrilled my life's great and 65 percent of men

01:07:38.500 which is the highest uh sorry of women and for men like there's a huge um difference between

01:07:45.040 those who have found like 21 partners or six 10 partners like very very low i suspect what's

01:07:50.360 actually going on with the women there is they want to be with the most chad guy that they've

01:07:54.300 ever been with i don't know and so it's guaranteed with the first partner but it's 50 50 with the

01:07:59.360 second partner it's 33 with the third partner i don't know like i don't know you don't know right

01:08:05.140 like i've no idea and i don't want to speculate but the point is these are the numbers people

01:08:10.200 who marry like you know the the person they sleep the first person they sleep with actually tend to

01:08:15.920 be happier out of life and it's by quite a large margin as well so it's like okay this whole like

01:08:22.880 i mean they literally say here contrary to conventional wisdom when it comes to sex less

01:08:27.020 experience is better at least for the marriage says one sociologist it's like yeah but that

01:08:31.900 is conventional wisdom that's literally the conventional wisdom of the at least the the

01:08:35.960 the english-speaking race for a thousand years yes like you like you would you'd essentially

01:08:43.440 like have like informally arranged marriages you know that you like you you weren't just

01:08:49.620 at the mercy of like post-1960s libertine culture where you're just like no don't ever get married

01:08:55.060 just shag around i mean even the boomers didn't live like the way the zoomers are being encouraged

01:08:59.540 to live the boomers almost all of them married by 25 yes you definitely have too much of a good

01:09:05.560 Can I be painfully honest?

01:09:06.780 Yes, you can.

01:09:08.160 You can definitely have too much of a good thing, let's say that,

01:09:10.740 that you have so much sex, so many partners,

01:09:12.800 that you become completely jaded.

01:09:14.600 Sure.

01:09:15.300 Definitely.

01:09:15.900 Obviously so.

01:09:17.480 But one partner makes you the most happy.

01:09:20.720 Is that right?

01:09:21.740 If I'd only ever slept with one woman ever,

01:09:23.720 I would feel hard done by, I'd feel cheated out of time.

01:09:26.800 Yeah.

01:09:27.200 I was like, I'm supposed to, as a man in the world,

01:09:30.280 I'm supposed to...

01:09:33.200 I don't know what to tell you.

01:09:34.480 How would you get a bit more than that out of life?

01:09:36.580 What if I've fallen out of love with her?

01:09:38.380 I don't find her attractive anymore.

01:09:39.560 Well, no.

01:09:40.620 Your chances of being happy go down

01:09:42.460 the second you sleep with the second person ever.

01:09:44.960 But does it?

01:09:45.680 Yeah, but it doesn't mean on any individual case

01:09:47.940 it couldn't be the other way.

01:09:48.980 But just overall,

01:09:50.480 if you are married to the first person

01:09:53.200 that you sleep with,

01:09:54.920 then you have a longer and happier marriage.

01:09:58.140 This is just what the numbers show.

01:09:59.960 And what you're describing, Bo,

01:10:01.000 as being in the 28 percent who aren't happy but the other 72 percent are happy according to these

01:10:06.760 numbers yeah well okay i mean it's interesting yeah so later if it's true but but it would

01:10:11.880 explain why you know the the traditional perspective is you get married and you just

01:10:15.700 stay married right it's like because for most people that's actually how it works so i like

01:10:20.520 the idea of saying to women no you can't have jobs and to men you can't have a promotion until

01:10:26.760 you're married and sorted out that way let's get on to that in a minute right right so the the

01:10:31.400 point being the traditional way of life may seem stifling and like you know maybe unfair in some

01:10:37.980 ways but actually it is the one that produces the best outcome for the most people which is why it

01:10:43.340 was the traditional way of life if it was better that we did x other thing and we got most people

01:10:49.320 getting a high life satisfaction out of it then i'm sure we'd do it this other way right but it's

01:10:53.940 just the nature of what people are and what human beings are and their relationships with one another

01:10:57.380 is just actually if you just get married young and you just stick with this one partner you'll

01:11:02.160 find yourself very happy in your marriage most of the time it's like okay well that's that's very

01:11:07.040 interesting that's and it's very interesting how again modernity has gone low actually why don't

01:11:12.620 you just be a total slag and just basically never get married and if you do get married get married

01:11:16.340 later in your 30s and see how your happiness is there maybe it'll work out for the best it's like

01:11:21.100 or maybe it won't maybe you'll be like no i'm really unhappy or the only half of people

01:11:26.020 will say they're happy in their marriage blah blah blah right the amount of suicide in like

01:11:30.560 porn actresses or extremely promiscuous people there are so many bad yeah i can totally see why

01:11:37.320 at the far end of the spectrum the other way is definitely going to lead to unhappiness yeah i

01:11:42.640 can see that yeah and i mean it's obvious isn't it yeah and so like i'm not saying like we have

01:11:48.080 to have like an ideology where it's like no here's the here's the hard line or anything like that but

01:11:52.040 just as a general trend in society actually maybe just the advice that we give young people is

01:11:57.140 actually maybe take care of your like um innocence in a way and actually think about the person you

01:12:04.120 want to marry because you'll spend the rest of your life with them actually if you don't like

01:12:07.340 despoil yourself in the dating market before you get married actually you'll be happier overall and

01:12:12.740 the numbers show it right so it's like this this is just like again just a thought that we may want

01:12:17.980 to just put out there and be like actually because i mean i'm just thinking myself and like yeah i

01:12:21.820 mean would i feel like i'd have lost anything if i'd married my wife i have now when i was 21

01:12:27.740 not really like i'm not i'm not like pining over those experiences in fact a lot of them are kind

01:12:33.980 of like why did i do that you know i just feel like it's sort of like you know like ben shapiro

01:12:38.500 married the first woman

01:12:39.680 they ever slept with,

01:12:40.500 didn't he?

01:12:41.040 Sure.

01:12:41.480 I think.

01:12:41.960 I don't know.

01:12:42.200 I feel like those people,

01:12:43.640 like,

01:12:45.020 I'm not sure.

01:12:45.460 Have you got much

01:12:46.180 of a perspective?

01:12:47.560 I'm not sure.

01:12:48.040 Ben Shapiro's a great bellman.

01:12:49.160 Okay, all right, all right.

01:12:49.960 But people that do

01:12:51.040 marry the first person

01:12:52.680 they ever slept with

01:12:53.400 and never,

01:12:53.820 like,

01:12:54.320 they're going to tell us

01:12:54.880 about,

01:12:55.300 about the whole

01:12:58.200 spectrum of human relationships.

01:13:00.440 It's like,

01:13:00.580 you've only ever had one.

01:13:01.780 Yeah.

01:13:02.060 It's like,

01:13:02.220 you've only ever had

01:13:02.760 one type of biscuit.

01:13:03.880 You're going to tell me

01:13:04.320 about all biscuits now,

01:13:05.300 are you?

01:13:05.660 Yeah, but they're going to be like.

01:13:06.380 You know, do you?

01:13:08.500 know at the end of the day if the other one's like yeah i'm very happy and you're like you don't know

01:13:12.640 any different you don't know any better maybe but well no fair enough happiness isn't like some

01:13:17.660 objective standard right like if yeah sure it could be tomorrow that some incredible rare tea

01:13:24.880 crosses my teapot i try this tea i'm like that is incredible tea has this been all my life i can't

01:13:30.940 go back to my other tea but at the moment i'm very happy with this basic bitch tea i get to be to be

01:13:35.900 to be fair bo i think i think if we had anyone here who had racked up some high numbers they'd

01:13:43.380 probably tell you that women are basically all the same more or less i mean well i don't think so

01:13:50.120 yeah i don't think so i mean well i think right let's move on before we get in trouble for

01:13:58.140 something explicit right so in other news right um this this whole thing is uh what year was this

01:14:08.080 2023 was it yeah 2023 so this is a fairly recent data um so women um becoming more egalitarian in

01:14:16.560 their relationships so okay but who asked for that the answer is basically nobody as you can see now

01:14:21.820 the husband's primary or sole breadwinner is down to 55 percent of relationships in america right

01:14:26.740 whereas an egalitarian marriage is 29 percent of relationships where they're basically on par

01:14:33.080 and then 16 percent is the wife or primary soul breadwinner well okay but is that what people want

01:14:38.520 because that's what the system is selecting for whether or not you want it and this is the sort

01:14:43.260 of jordan peterson points like ladies what kind of man do you want to marry and the answer is uh

01:14:49.000 not this actually right so you've got um the you can find these sorts of um sort of agony

01:14:56.140 aren't questions on reddit all the time men in long-term relationships with women who significantly

01:15:00.340 are more does it bother you affect the relationship well there we go yeah there's the first reply my

01:15:06.080 wife and i were neck and neck i had this brilliant idea i started my own it consultancy company next

01:15:09.780 10 years her income kept going up mine well not so much if i asked i would have said no we are good

01:15:14.740 but in reality we were not i projected it fake until you make it success where there was none

01:15:19.020 she never talked even to me about how stressed she felt that she cannot uh take risks with her

01:15:23.220 new jobs or have the ability to make a fuss at work for losing that income as for me i felt

01:15:27.220 emasculated and diminished not from her salary but i wasn't that successful and she was i didn't

01:15:31.940 see at the time but looking back yeah i was it was almost it was not good almost divorced until

01:15:36.180 i pulled my head out of my ass got a real job and started communicating and blah blah blah right

01:15:40.100 so the this i think is a fairly common um experience in these sorts of relationships

01:15:47.040 and we just have it that women would prefer their husbands to be better educated and higher earning

01:15:54.420 than them when when women are like their revealed preferences which will go on shortly is not for

01:16:00.180 this this is not what women are asking for but it does mean that if you've got women who are

01:16:06.420 independent and financially free from men well then they don't need to get married so this is

01:16:12.360 another reason why marriages are taking longer to actually arrange and as you said this is all

01:16:17.700 a part of the reason that civilization is just starting to spiral the bloody drain well i mean

01:16:21.120 you're far more likely to have four three or four kids if you start in your 20s i mean it's not even

01:16:25.280 that you so that i didn't get up for this but um one the the main issue isn't actually the number

01:16:30.480 of children that women have because once you have one you're more likely to have like two or three

01:16:34.640 if you start when you're 35 you're unlikely that's anyone that's the problem it's literally

01:16:39.480 be women putting off until they're in their mid-30s and then it becomes much more difficult

01:16:43.180 so it's it's it's not the number it's the number of people who just not having any there's the

01:16:47.200 issue when it comes to that right but anyway so women in the u.s and in britain by the way are

01:16:51.900 the better educated now um in every category there are more women going to university better

01:16:56.960 credentialized certainly better credentialized um in the uk this was uh from uh dr paul martin

01:17:03.260 from the university college london um in the uk uh pointed out that in 2018 so it's been going on

01:17:08.360 for a long time now and it's a trend that is only going this one way uh 53.6 percent of all girls

01:17:14.040 had progressed to higher education by the age of 19 compared to 40 percent of all boys and so you've

01:17:18.680 got this progression gap that men are not going into higher education and getting those credentials

01:17:23.160 well you can say well they're just credentials it's just piece of paper no they're education

01:17:28.180 and they are um social connections that you're making you're gaining status but it's also almost

01:17:34.720 every bloody decent job requires a degree now right yeah and so the proliferation of degrees

01:17:39.940 is a basic requirement now locks a load of men at 60 of men out of getting so well i suppose when

01:17:45.740 it's when it's used as a as a botanist i remember seeing some post a while ago it was this it was

01:17:50.020 this uh woman posting and both her and her husband were in the navy a u.s navy and i think he was

01:17:56.020 like special forces or something and and he had had this and she wrote down his career and it was

01:18:00.580 an outstanding career but and then she was saying but i've got this certificate from this and i've

01:18:05.460 got this acknowledgement of award and i've got young women leaders i have a lanyard yeah and

01:18:10.180 and so she was thinking why have i been so much more successful than my husband and you look at

01:18:13.920 the two cvs and it's like no you clearly haven't yeah you've just been credentialized more and

01:18:18.520 therefore you pushed up the corporate ladder because they want they have um boxes to tick

01:18:24.380 yes your actual accomplishments are zero a bunch of people have sat around and given me an award

01:18:29.720 and therefore i'm great exactly a husband who just does something amazing but they had a bunch

01:18:33.780 of diversity quotas oh we need all women shortlist we need you know you've got the lanyards to prove

01:18:38.260 it and so okay great but what do you actually do well nothing but you are now earning your

01:18:42.760 incredible special forces husband yes and so you're actually the breadwinner for your household

01:18:47.120 enjoy the pressure and as we saw earlier women don't actually enjoy it right and so but what

01:18:51.460 what this educational gap is is producing is women young women out earning young men and this was

01:18:56.980 back in 2015 this was happening where women aged 20 to 29 were earning an average of 1111 pounds

01:19:04.720 more than men um which changes as they get older but still like this is hard for young men then to

01:19:11.620 find young wives right like if women are looking for men who earn more than that oh as we'll get

01:19:18.120 to in a minute well it's it's harder for you to do that as a young man so you've got to spend more

01:19:23.180 of your 20s not married not making a family not actually investing in the future and this has

01:19:29.460 just got worse so now in 2025 a decade later that's doubled to now 2200 pounds more than men

01:19:36.040 so it's it's becoming more and more difficult for young men to actually be that respectable prospect

01:19:41.560 that women are looking for and women are just not after this right from the say the revealed

01:19:47.740 preferences on like internet dating sites and wherever else right men with combined income

01:19:53.020 and education that was one standard deviation greater than the mean received 255 percent of

01:19:58.140 three times more indicators of interest than men with a combined income and education there was

01:20:03.780 just one standard deviation less than the mean so women are like no i'd like an accomplished man

01:20:08.440 who's educated and earns money right and this is just everywhere and what will end up happening

01:20:13.540 is they'll end up accepting harems and and they'll just it'll just be you'll just be high performing

01:20:18.320 guys who have like a tuesday girl and a wednesday girl and a thursday girl yes and the weird thing

01:20:22.920 about in that situation is is they know because they never ask they they must know that you're

01:20:28.600 dating multiple people i mean they're probably they never ask they're probably in multiple

01:20:32.240 harems to be honest possibly yeah it's a classic thing you know like i think of in the natural

01:20:37.420 world something like uh lions right two or three of the alphas have got a pack and there's loads

01:20:43.420 of outside beta males that don't get any action ever yeah that's what's not that different with

01:20:49.540 humans sure like a small number of the guys get nearly all the action and a big chunk of them

01:20:54.460 get nothing ever sure but that but that's just yeah that's just and that's why we invented

01:20:59.040 that's why we invented civilization and had marriages are a bit isn't it but that but what

01:21:03.940 that is is just thinking about the immediate gratification right what with what i'm talking

01:21:08.160 about here is actually what do you want out of your life you know as in when you are older

01:21:13.160 you know when you're like 40 years old when you're a 40 year old woman do you think those guys are

01:21:18.500 going to be like yeah i want you in my harem you know no no she's going to be invisible right she

01:21:22.580 exactly women become invisible as they age and men become terrorists i guess according to the

01:21:27.340 british government right so it's like right so we've we've deliberately uh maximized we've chosen

01:21:33.900 for this particular thing and again it's just always the case that women want to marry up

01:21:39.940 so recent research indicates that male breadwinning continues to be the central central

01:21:44.440 to not only marriage formation but also marriage stability so if you want to get married and have

01:21:50.680 children and have a family and a life where you invest in the future this is what you need to do

01:21:57.780 women will tell us this and so this like oh you know going back to the sort of um you know people

01:22:05.080 problem with people being a virgin getting married everything that we do in society we've

01:22:09.760 been psyched into doing the actual opposite of what people actually want like don't get married

01:22:15.500 in your 30s don't have lots and lots of relationships before you get married you know

01:22:20.320 don't if you're if you're a man we should we should as you said the the priority for jobs

01:22:28.220 should be married men frankly you know young men young men who've just got married and maybe have

01:22:34.380 a baby on the way yeah he needs a job and he needs a job for the stability and the continuation of

01:22:38.780 society and so women like oh i'm going to get go to university it's like okay a small percentage

01:22:43.040 of women always will it's fine but a lot of women are kind of being artificially incentivized down

01:22:48.500 this path and it's actually not what they're looking for well and also their happiness rate

01:22:52.740 just goes like that over time absolutely and so like everything about our current civilization

01:22:57.440 is a giant psyop against relationships and i think it's just worth like you know pointing out

01:23:02.580 you might have some of those comments yeah sorry we've got loads of comments here all these women

01:23:09.100 getting degrees yet they can't find a man wanting to stay with them yeah because it's like the and

01:23:12.860 this the the the the joke is like no man will uh turn a woman down because she only works at

01:23:19.940 mcdonald's like no no man is like i'm not dating her she works at mcdonald's but every woman will

01:23:26.000 turn that man down if he just works at mcdonald's you know it's just funny you should talk about

01:23:30.380 this today because i just had just so happened to be scrolling through youtube shorts like

01:23:34.000 two days ago it was just a random jordan peterson thing and he was saying exactly that women always

01:23:40.160 want to marry across or up yes and men don't really care in fact they'd rather marry down

01:23:45.100 marrying across is settling as well you know your wife wants to look up and he was saying that's

01:23:50.200 across all societies and all cultures nearly very nearly it's just the universal human constant

01:23:55.600 base tape says when you think about it people who marry young have way more and better sex than

01:23:59.360 their empowered counterparts start mocking them for having barely any terrible sex well that's

01:24:03.180 another point it's like i can think of so many like encounters that i've had throughout my life

01:24:07.060 i shouldn't that was just awful you know i shouldn't i didn't enjoy that she didn't enjoy

01:24:11.420 that and there was no no particular advantage gained for either party right whereas if you

01:24:15.820 know the person for a long period of time then actually things can get good for them and you

01:24:21.060 over this long period of time uh mandine says i didn't lose my virginity till i was 30 here we go

01:24:27.680 i knew the one person who was that would end up watching this podcast um it had to do with being

01:24:32.820 raised christian having christian boyfriends and being told men only one thing by my mother

01:24:36.740 in my 50s now and never married okay that's not great but the point is you wait too long

01:24:42.100 people should marry in their 20s i wish i'd married in my 20s um so incel bad alpha male

01:24:49.100 alpha bad male whore bad the real plan man bad uh yeah the well that that is the fundamental

01:24:55.360 core of feminism, of course.

01:24:58.520 Incels are a terror threat.

01:24:59.660 The less astute among us will go,

01:25:00.920 hey, hey, hey, state-minded girlfriend.

01:25:02.720 The intelligent among us have heard of Germany

01:25:04.580 and the Kettler experiment.

01:25:05.840 This is going to get real dark.

01:25:06.940 Yeah, the Kettler experiment is pretty awful.

01:25:08.840 What is it?

01:25:09.920 The German government were like,

01:25:11.180 why don't we just put orphaned children with pedophiles?

01:25:14.540 Oh, that.

01:25:15.300 And that only ended in 2021

01:25:16.880 because the German government is demented.

01:25:21.220 Demented.

01:25:21.620 oh okay so for anyone he's resigned from his seat or resigned as leader of reform is he standing in

01:25:32.480 the by-election right okay okay well i think i think our political chat might need a bit of

01:25:40.180 rewriting no no it doesn't it doesn't need that much actually uh okay that's that is very

01:25:44.880 interesting okay okay um well do you want to do video comments um i didn't think he was going to

01:25:50.580 do it can can somebody in the chat tell me has he resigned as leader of reform or has he resigned

01:25:57.200 from his seat so that he can fight it again and prove a point yeah that's the that's kind of

01:26:02.680 well actually mind you you've all been watching us so you don't know what's going on yeah no i

01:26:06.060 have no idea i'll tell you what find out we've got we've got three minutes left so let's watch

01:26:09.860 some video chats and we'll we'll get on it in the political yeah we do a political chat and

01:26:14.620 will be out tomorrow morning fucking hell but i so i've seen a story going around about a resort

01:26:23.540 that uh spiritually cleanses women of their body counts while charging them for the admission

01:26:28.680 and i find myself struck by the fact that all the people involved in the story would insist that

01:26:34.060 women should be sleeping with as many partners as they want how dare you suggest this might be bad

01:26:39.280 for them and you know you shouldn't be

01:26:41.340 a hater also we're running

01:26:43.400 a cottage industry

01:26:44.660 of you know seminars

01:26:47.140 trying to exercise women

01:26:49.120 of the shame that they seem to be feeling of living

01:26:51.300 this lifestyle that we've encouraged them

01:26:53.260 to take very sinister I have to

01:26:55.340 say weirdly dovetails

01:26:57.500 well with what I was saying right

01:26:59.100 yeah he couldn't have known you were going to do this

01:27:00.620 no no I had no idea

01:27:03.140 until this morning because it's interesting

01:27:04.540 right

01:27:07.180 interesting that's probably the strongest movie can make but we'll talk about it yeah okay but

01:27:13.900 yeah this dovetails perfectly with what i was saying and you know why would why would the

01:27:17.840 revealed preference be i'd like to pay a thousand pounds to have my sexual sins cleansed by some

01:27:23.540 brisley and bloody shaman you know why would they be doing this because it's not normal

01:27:27.920 and the way they think you're not high your body count though isn't it but also your body count is

01:27:33.320 It's not like a phone.

01:27:34.660 You can't factory reset it.

01:27:36.240 Yeah, it doesn't change.

01:27:37.920 And even if you do factory reset your phone,

01:27:40.340 it's not a new phone.

01:27:41.380 It's still a worn out phone.

01:27:43.300 It's just been factory reset.

01:27:45.040 There's a fair amount of cope in it.

01:27:48.740 Phone's still busted.

01:27:50.920 Yeah, worn around the edges.

01:27:53.220 The charging port is just knackered.

01:27:58.120 Anyway, with that,

01:28:00.440 let's have the next video comment.

01:28:02.160 Friends, I'd like to involve everyone in the highest drama of car building, the engine break-in.

01:28:06.500 The stakes are, if you don't go straight to fast running, the motor destroys itself and you gotta throw it out and start over.

01:28:11.660 So without further ado, friends, countrymen, lend me your ears.

01:28:31.720 and now i get to rip it all out and take it off to the body shop

01:28:35.820 that's really cool you almost smell the petrol yeah yeah that oil petrol smell i always find

01:28:43.700 these videos strangely hypnotic kind of the way hippie chicks must respond to like i don't know

01:28:48.720 crystals and stuff this for me is the same thing no no my facebook algorithm for like a couple of

01:28:54.580 years had me hooked on videos like this yes like woodworking videos or something the ones i really

01:28:59.620 like and the guys would go off into the deep forest and build like a hut yeah i love those

01:29:04.380 it was it was one of those things where i actually sort of like stopped um i i would start muting

01:29:08.840 these particular um pages because i realized they were just a complete time segment don't

01:29:14.080 me wrong i love watching like an engine being built or whatever but like what am i i'm not

01:29:17.760 i'm gonna build a bloody engine it's not useful for me to watch that i don't know how that works

01:29:21.820 you know this is just facebook sucking my life away so you know like watching someone build a

01:29:27.640 really small but perfectly

01:29:29.540 working V8 engine

01:29:31.220 I'm never going to do that

01:29:33.680 I just want someone else to do it

01:29:35.740 alright

01:29:37.700 we've got time for

01:29:39.720 comments

01:29:40.080 might do one or two I guess

01:29:42.840 Polsky's Clep says the two stage

01:29:45.620 voting system is not that bad it works the same in Poland

01:29:47.460 but it turned out the opposite way

01:29:49.160 in the second round people voted against the Libertad's

01:29:51.700 candidate so the Conservative candidate

01:29:53.380 in the first round would win

01:29:54.700 without the second round would be so effed right now

01:29:57.580 um yeah i mean

01:29:58.700 we'll talk about the voting systems in a bit actually um canis on oh the the the um order of

01:30:08.840 these has got mine first because we swapped around at last minute but canis familiar points out that

01:30:12.780 he went to japan and his wife dropped her phone on some random street and by the time they'd

01:30:16.800 noticed it gone they went to the closest police office um and somebody just turned it in it's

01:30:21.760 like can you imagine doing that in london but that's how well maybe not in london but like

01:30:25.480 that's how it would have been

01:30:26.300 in any English village

01:30:27.680 30 years ago

01:30:28.500 probably still now

01:30:29.300 in a lot of places

01:30:30.000 that's how it would have been

01:30:31.800 and how it should be

01:30:32.760 yeah

01:30:33.140 did you know that 38%

01:30:38.560 of New York City

01:30:39.140 is foreign born

01:30:40.080 I did

01:30:40.900 but Bo didn't

01:30:42.200 I didn't realize

01:30:42.920 it was that high

01:30:43.500 to be honest

01:30:44.000 mad

01:30:44.540 it was quite that high

01:30:45.840 Ann says

01:30:46.660 since I regularly watch

01:30:47.500 the low seaters

01:30:48.040 perhaps I'm not a great person

01:30:49.380 to understand what

01:30:49.840 the majority of women think

01:30:50.760 but I don't think women

01:30:52.080 want men with a high body count

01:30:53.220 a man who has played

01:30:54.000 around a lot

01:30:54.460 they are not likely

01:30:55.080 stop someone who's been more faithful is more desirable no no what they want is somebody who

01:30:59.140 is assertive and confident and somebody who's assertive and confident would have got a lot of

01:31:02.700 women again i just think for both men and women there's some sort of sweet spot where if it's too

01:31:08.560 high whether you're a man or a woman if it's too high that's bad yeah particularly for men if it's

01:31:14.440 nothing then that's terrible how high is too high in my opinion for a man yes oh god i don't know

01:31:19.880 Dozens and dozens and dozens.

01:31:21.160 Just give us a nearest,

01:31:22.580 to the nearest hundred, Beau.

01:31:24.540 A hundred.

01:31:26.020 Probably too much, isn't it?

01:31:27.800 You would become jaded,

01:31:29.140 wouldn't you?

01:31:30.140 Well, I think that's,

01:31:30.900 that's basically the same, aren't they?

01:31:32.920 You would just become, like,

01:31:34.380 completely indifferent,

01:31:35.580 wouldn't you, probably.

01:31:36.860 Yeah, but a hell of a journey

01:31:37.840 getting there.

01:31:38.600 Yeah.

01:31:42.180 Baron Von Warhawk says,

01:31:43.280 the stigma against young people

01:31:44.200 who don't have sex

01:31:44.820 is a whole lot more sinister

01:31:45.580 when you remember how many people

01:31:46.840 who make media promoting sex

01:31:48.520 visited Epstein Island.

01:31:49.580 that's a good point uh they make society over-sexualized in order to make teens and

01:31:53.180 children easier to groom yeah um i actually there's this kind of phenomenon of the sort of

01:31:58.480 the young fogies amongst the zoomers where they're like uh you know a small portion of the zoomers

01:32:03.820 are like no i'm going to be boring and reject the saturated sexuality of modernity and get married

01:32:10.320 young in fact we know a bunch of them like a lot of our sort of younger uh friends are married in

01:32:15.040 their 20s and they seem very very happy that's the thing i've met you know our friends and their

01:32:20.540 wives the wives seem lovely completely sensible they all seem very happy and they they seem

01:32:25.260 genuinely to have a good time together i'm just like what was i doing all the way through my 20s

01:32:30.340 like i just looking back i'm like did i achieve anything was there any point behind it no i think

01:32:35.960 i've wasted my time and i'm glad i woke up in my 30s but like you know i think they're just the

01:32:41.980 wrong messages being sent

01:32:43.140 generally and that's why

01:32:45.000 anyway I think we're out of

01:32:46.020 time all right um do we

01:32:49.060 have one more segment for

01:32:49.800 comments or do we get

01:32:50.420 through them all right

01:32:51.220 we're out of time so oh

01:32:52.460 okay well we're done

01:32:53.180 samson will kill us

01:32:54.080 right so um uh well we

01:32:58.440 we've we've done a

01:32:59.300 podcast and uh we do a

01:33:01.440 podcast about politics in

01:33:02.960 a minute and you'll get

01:33:03.540 that tomorrow morning and

01:33:05.240 there might be some

01:33:06.000 content this afternoon but

01:33:07.480 I don't know what it is

01:33:08.480 on a Monday it's Tuesday

01:33:11.300 Tuesday.

01:33:12.920 Oh, it's Brokonomics.

01:33:14.000 Oh, it's me.

01:33:15.260 There we go.

01:33:16.520 So you can watch a Brokonomics coming out at three.

01:33:19.820 It's Tuesday because I start my week on a Tuesday

01:33:21.940 and I get confused with Mondays.

01:33:23.480 So there we go.

01:33:24.740 Thank you very much for coming along.

01:33:26.200 Goodbye now.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - July 07, 2026

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1456

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