00:03:49.720Deutschland ist ein Einwanderungsland.
00:03:53.020Germany is a country of immigration and will remain a country of immigration.
00:03:57.380Can we listen to it in the original German?
00:03:58.640You see this sort of excitement and emphasis and just moral commitment to, no, no, Germany is a country of immigrants.
00:04:19.500But what's remarkable as well is that this pathway that he wants to pursue, even if it's, you've got obviously the AFD, you know, doing really well in East Germany, but also, as you say, the far left making gains as well.0.81
00:04:33.740If he continues down this path, it's still going to lead to the total oblivion of his party.
00:07:39.560And the Syrian government won't take them, which is pretty crazy considering that it's literally an Al-Qaeda-led government with no military.
00:13:27.220So she is the descendant of that, ended up being an activist in student politics, ended up objecting to the use of nuclear energy in Germany.0.74
00:13:37.980The dumbest and worst positions are the ones that she's adopted for the duration of her life, and she is now in charge of Germany on behalf of Linke.
00:13:48.440i shouldn't touch berlin right second berlin was it oh of berlin of berlin is what i wanted to say0.96
00:13:53.480yes that's right um so you know it went badly now in the um in the elections in uh mecklenburg
00:14:02.520pomerania west pomerania the afd did well across a bunch of age groups so they won in the 16 to 24s
00:14:11.800in the 25 to 34s and really in the 35 to 44s and you know it's really encouraging0.55
00:14:18.120yes whereas you see the boomers still voting spd because they don't know any better and you see the
00:14:24.840split in the youth between the left and and the right but way more on the right well not really
00:14:31.800because if you put linke and spd together they're they're they go more uh towards like okay far
00:14:39.480right and far left is you know total polarization total polarization of german politics and really
00:14:46.040it is kind of inevitable they have to polarize further because the options are
00:14:52.600migrant turks larping as leftists uh and the who are literally the descendants of the full-on0.96
00:15:02.260torture torturing communists and the far right so that's german politics now and the far right0.98
00:15:07.900led by the lesbian yeah yeah terrible i mean i don't understand how they're considered far right0.74
00:15:13.060in any way a lesbian partnered with a sri lankan you keep forgetting that detail but it's it's it's
00:15:20.360the fact that she's like actually i don't want germany to be turned into syria 2.0 and that right
00:15:26.380well there we go foreigners are like well we took that personally well not just the foreigners i
00:15:30.620mean you know there are loads of germans who take that personally too no no the german left is0.85
00:15:35.040particularly nasty um and there is a a crisis in government is emerging because traditionally0.72
00:15:43.360the way that these state governments would work was that they would try their best to build
00:15:48.100coalitions together to keep the afd out but with the results in uh the afd are approaching absolute
00:15:54.900majority afd are absolutely absolute majorities firstly was your firewall now yeah exactly and
00:16:01.060And the coalitions are just completely incoherent.
00:16:05.680If you look at the seat chart in Germany, I mean, in Berlin, it's just the furthest
00:34:02.320What he means when he says no one found this controversial, it's like, yes, no one was allowed to go on to Sky News or write an op-ed for The Times explaining why this was in poor taste or inappropriate.0.63
00:34:16.480yes that's yes that's right people who don't have a ordinary british people rishi who don't
00:34:22.240have a voice in this country i didn't hear them at all yeah i didn't get to hear those peoples
00:34:27.260yes no wonder you didn't because the system is designed to destroy their voices that's why yeah
00:34:32.920they were they were deliberately excluded yes and so rishi sunak's like well it's all quiet over
00:34:37.780here so it's um without conflict controversy it's like well i'd say i'd speculate that um
00:53:10.440just as british uh then we also have your point firas and this is actually obviously people from
00:53:25.800the indian subcontinent over in southwark and you can see them all here turn that off yeah
00:53:34.440okay yeah um and as you rightly point out you know if integration were happening and they're0.97
00:53:42.840all just british they would not congregate like this they'd be mixed in with other people as well
00:53:48.140who were also like chinese british or arab british or whatever it might have been but they're not and
00:53:53.680we also pulled this out you remember there was that weirdo on uh don't narrow it down but on
00:53:57.920navara media who was doing the narrow down yeah yeah but the one who was like from stoke and he
00:54:03.620was talking about what a wonderful diverse success story stoke oh yes and then you look
00:54:07.400during the demographic map of stoke and it's like you have the english districts and then you just
00:54:12.380have the diverse district yeah i do remember because when left to their own devices these
00:54:16.780people's actually just are drawn towards their own and when i say their own i don't mean the
00:54:22.260white british people that have had roots in this country since to pull a date that rushy sunak
00:54:27.340invokes 1707 you know um out of there and all these constituencies again um pretty patel of the
00:54:36.220tory saying best wishes to everyone celebrating indian independence day across the indian
00:54:41.280community in the eye to kingdom and abroad yes they're so proud of indian hint this uh it means
00:54:47.680um giant hindry indy means victory triumphal hail so hail hind hail indy yeah hail india
00:54:57.000hear it so much unless you have unless you have to live in average british statement yes people
00:55:02.120always say that absolutely it's very common um moving on we also of course have to address the0.87
00:55:08.040fact that this successful multi-faith multi-racial democracy has basically just stolen any political
00:55:15.400representation from the native people from our capital cities yes that the english and our
00:55:21.720interests in our politics and in the landscape of this country are no longer represented in London
00:55:27.540and that the demographics of it rig it against us because all of these other British people
00:55:34.540according to Rishi Sunak have just decided that they for some reason just have distinctly
00:55:41.580different interests to the white working class of Wigan or the middle classes of the Shire
00:55:47.940odd just really really strange um moving on uh it's such a successful democracy
00:55:55.980that we're now experiencing the lowest turnout in general elections since universal suffrage
00:56:02.020it's so successful we have such national confidence in our political system that no
00:56:09.720one's turning out to vote in it nothing says democracy like nobody actually voting yep and
00:56:15.240why not well because people like you mr sunak continue to just carry on with the business as
00:56:21.520usual of ignoring all of the people that you said were not kicking up a fuss and there was no
00:56:27.240controversy about any of the things that were being done to us even as i lay through them all
00:56:32.440here how about the fact that with such a successful multi-faith multi-ethnic democracy
00:56:37.580that an entire authoritarian state has had to be built in britain where one didn't previously
00:56:44.500exist with the government literally threatening you if you have a contrary opinion to the way
00:56:50.940that it's going so when he asks there were no objections you know yeah would you like to go
00:56:56.760to jail amazing brilliant really brilliant so cheers for that one rishi all the fact that we
00:57:02.600just have diversity barriers built around london now it's part of the success i don't know what
00:57:07.600you're objecting to again trafalgar square has obviously been um a centerpiece of london for a
00:57:13.400long long time now but it never needed bollards and it never needed all of this protection now
00:57:18.220i grant that for the entirety of its history it didn't have huge trucks or cars driving around it
00:57:24.860but still no one felt harmed it's almost like london used to be even a city in britain was so
00:57:32.100well put together in its culture that it could be a high trust society i mean there were points
00:57:37.320where it needed a navy there were points where it needed air defense but it didn't need diversity
00:57:40.900barriers um and then what about these people mr sunak migrant households received 12 billion
00:57:48.100pounds in universal credit last year now so long as i just want to ask i suppose if these people0.99
00:57:56.900who are foreigners in our country sapping off of the state cheer for england at a cricket game
00:58:04.020does that make them british apparently so just want to pose the question especially
00:58:10.880when you juxtapose it with literal foreign harpies like zara sultana accusing people
00:58:18.220like sir jim ratcliffe of being a parasite yeah whilst running defense for this system
00:58:26.560yeah and so now our own millionaires and self-made entrepreneurs are getting called0.95
00:58:32.680parasites by people who were here just to leech off of us because England to them is as thin as
00:58:39.780an economic extraction machine. Or the fact perhaps that adults who identified as Muslim1.00
00:58:47.420had the lowest employment percentage. So again, British people, people who have jobs, who don't0.91
00:58:54.100have jobs, like what's the distinction here? It's utterly mental. And all of this, all of these0.99
00:59:01.860things that i'm going through right here are just in rishi sunak's world we just have to live with
00:59:08.820this yes indefinitely forever everyone who came here just is here now and there is no debate to
00:59:16.560be had about it uh the fact that john cleese actual national treasures like john cleese
00:59:23.240are having to deal with muslims in birmingham trying to cancel him from his tour that he's
00:59:29.160currently doing successful multicultural democracy now i'm not saying again that
00:59:37.500being british requires you to like john cleese's comedy that's good
00:59:42.720like john cleese's politics just yeah not a huge fan of his but i am suggesting that reasons of
00:59:50.420islamophobia might not perhaps be a traditionally british motive for campaigning against someone
00:59:57.100Or how about the fact that for all of your concern, Rishi, about Britain becoming a two-tier society, if we think about the fact that some people of one skin colour and some people of another skin colour might run into being dealt with differently by the law,
01:01:54.100It couldn't possibly be because once you put those people
01:01:57.900into those places, you find that the politics and the aspiration
01:02:03.720and the way of life and culture of these places
01:02:06.480changes dramatically, as it is done by London.
01:02:10.420And then the final thing that I'll just conclude with, of course, is all of the lives that we have actually lost whilst this has continued.
01:02:17.600And I made a daily for the Daily Channel going through a very, very important list compiled by Remigration Now,
01:02:25.000where they just talked about all of the British lives that have actually been lost in order to preserve this system that dictates to me what my identity is
01:02:38.260and who i have a right to claim that i am as a brit and who i have to share it with
01:02:43.300not having it rishi absolutely not having it whatsoever um and this is all of this that i've
01:02:49.440laid out here is how we are treated whilst we are still the majority and there is no false or
01:02:55.780rhetorical trick on earth that is going to persuade me to allow us to become a minority
01:03:01.240none whatsoever we will restore demographic security and if that is inconvenient to the
01:03:09.980very rich mr sunak and his indian wife and his indian children then i am thrilled to tell you
01:03:15.780there is a continent with subcontinent of over a billion with you where you will also be able to go
01:03:21.440so move on quickly i suppose sure um right okay let's talk about effective altruism so this is
01:03:30.520thing that's been coming up a lot recently and so i thought right okay i'll do a bit of a look into
01:03:34.880this and see what it is so effective altruism as effective altruism.org tells us is a project that
01:03:42.400aims to find the best ways to help others and put them into practice that's tepid vague doesn't
01:03:50.340really help they say this like the the first people to discover people doing good things for
01:03:54.960yeah that's exactly what it is uh typically an effective altruism i have the feeling they're
01:03:59.080not going to conclude love thy neighbor you know with that just didn't come up actually not the
01:04:04.420sheaves yeah but they they define doing good which i mean sounds like a useful thing uh is
01:04:11.240understood to mean enabling others to have lives that are healthy happy and fulfilled
01:04:14.920in line with their wishes and free from uh avoidable suffering so well-being versus suffering
01:16:07.840that we should do whatever maximizes the sum of individual welfare at all times again another very
01:16:12.780basic utilitarian premise that has been theoretically debunked many times so you know0.99
01:16:19.520well listen mr effective altruist you just have to shoot this baby in the head why because then0.97
01:16:23.900a million people in africa get pat head pats at night or something so okay great but the means0.99
01:16:29.580actually are important to the ends you know consequentialism again there's no new philosophy
01:16:34.740is being created here or examined here or anything like this right and thirdly the movement takes a
01:16:39.760scientific approach to doing good oh thank god someone's finally decided to take a scientific
01:16:44.840have you considered the science really yeah yeah have you considered the science yes oh god the
01:16:50.300number of people who thought they were doing good for us was science when the pandemic hit
01:16:54.380yeah i was just thinking of fauci yeah hacking me is attacking the science but you can go back
01:17:00.460100 years previously and be like okay well were there any scientific movements around at the time
01:17:05.440that may have done some horrible things just out of interest anyway right so the next point they
01:17:11.340go on to is quality right effective altruists right i mean it's amazing this is all just
01:17:15.700libtardism yes this is just a a really tepid view of libtardism right effective altruists0.69
01:17:21.520recognize that equality is instrumentally important ah this is the innovation right so0.50
01:17:25.880it's not equality for its own sake equality because equality does good things right now
01:17:30.760again yes go go further on the instrumentally important why yeah it's true i i can tell you
01:17:37.060okay they know that unequal distribution of resources can have negative consequences
01:17:41.120including resentment domination and erosion of public goods they also recognize inequality
01:17:46.160often gives rise to new opportunities to do good they're they're they've all divested from their
01:17:51.340companies and give are giving their employees equal shares and that's what the effect of altruism
01:17:55.200is for you see ah i don't have to do any of that if i'm being an effective altruist i see due to
01:18:00.720the fact that money tends to have declining marginal utility i love the framing of this as
01:18:04.880well this is the reason we're in favor of equality guys there is a strong theoretical reason that
01:18:09.900there to believe that more can be achieved by focusing on the global poor than focusing on
01:18:15.020some people who are already well off at the same time most effective altruists do not accord any
01:18:20.060intrinsic value to equality as peter singer writes they tend to view values like justice freedom
01:18:24.760and equality uh as good but because of the positive effect they have on social welfare
01:18:29.780so the they've instrumentalized values like justice and freedom and of course equality as well right
01:18:36.900so these these are not now values in themselves thing raising the standards of the very poor as
01:18:42.480opposed to those who are well off the implication is don't worry about the poor working classes
01:18:47.880in the north of england you must be primarily concerned with the poor in bangladesh that's0.98
01:18:53.220correct yeah because relatively speaking those people in england have a higher standard of
01:18:59.200living and more income than the poor in bangladesh therefore until those poor people in bangladesh
01:19:05.400are moved over to them exactly for equality and for but the thing is right this this is the same
01:19:11.720moral framework as a as the the the villain who conducts a heist right justice freedom and
01:19:19.420whatever else as long as these are merely instrumental values they're only valid while
01:19:24.980the actual practice of them produces the consequence you're looking for well if it
01:19:29.980turns out injustice produces a more effectively altruistic outcome well then i'll just happily
01:19:36.000flip over to injustice like right okay so you're a person without a moral compass now this is what
01:19:39.700i mean about utilitarianism not being an ethical theory right it's it's it's just a strategy to
01:19:46.660accomplish a particular goal and so no if you can just let justice and freedom go well then we have
01:19:53.140other questions to answer right i mean what amount of injustice and tyranny gets you to the effect of
01:19:58.720altruism well who cares i'm not committed to the injustice and to justice and freedom injustice
01:20:04.220and tyranny are just as instrumental then right if you're not morally committed as peter singer
01:20:08.600rights again it's like these people have just not thought out their own philosophy no this brings
01:20:14.100the approach into conflict with people who think that justice is bad good and injustice is bad
01:20:20.260right and they accept that there is an issue there right uh and so they also uh point out that um it
01:20:28.480it's often the most cost infective interactions are unlikely to be the focused uh on the poorest0.62
01:20:35.180of the poor because the ultra poor suffer from a composite of afflictions so they lack capabilities
01:20:40.040and skills and the victims of social marginalization and geographical remoteness
01:20:44.060suffer from illness disability and so they're some of the hardest people to help so in a way
01:20:49.360maybe we don't have to help those people actually so isn't that interesting um but so that's so this
01:20:56.040is basically what effective altruism is it's an analytic consequence philosophy um consequentialist
01:21:00.900philosophy and social movement that is essentially a kind of modern successor to utilitarianism
01:21:05.200this assumes all of those things it is more flexible than utilitarianism and it is more
01:21:10.500sensible to ground it in well-being and suffering rather than pleasure and pain because they are
01:21:16.620obviously not moral categories anyway um but it still essentially amounts to the same thing
01:21:23.340and of course as we've seen it is not confined to humans and this is where it starts getting
01:21:29.800uh quite bizarre because you get the effect of altruists saying things like well billions of
01:21:35.800animals suffer hell on earth we need to always have yep my team and i know many others are
01:21:42.600many effective altruists i know are often burning the midnight candle to address these wrongs
01:21:47.560sorry the wrongs of billions of animals are suffering hell on earth we're talking about like
01:21:52.540like lions on the serengeti eating antelopes you're like god i've got to burn the candle at
01:21:58.300both ends to prevent the suffering of those antelopes so are you sure that's sensible
01:22:03.500you should this this is the the thing there isn't it it starts going you realize all right okay and
01:22:09.240this was always the problem with sort of liberalism's rationalism anyway so oh any rational
01:22:13.280animal therefore becomes a constituent of the philosophy itself and so oh yeah no we we need
01:22:20.660to think about dolphins we've got octopuses i do i need to think about dolphins and octopuses
01:22:24.780and this is why robot rights is going to become a thing right ai they will perceive ai to have
01:22:31.480a rational capacity and therefore they will say well ai needs to have rights now it's like no
01:22:37.100it's a machine and it's literally programmed to make you think that it is a rational sensitive
01:22:43.080feeling creature it is not it is a machine and you can see how this starts going off the deep end
01:22:49.420because uh they for some reason and i didn't actually get to the bottom of why this had come
01:22:55.680up but they were getting around to the the shrimp welfare project because apparently you need to
01:23:02.180worry about the welfare of shrimp right now i'm going to play a second or two of this so you can
01:23:06.340yeah yeah no so you can understand the kind of debates they're having if you could prevent very
01:23:11.100large amounts of bad things by spending a dollar it's worth doing it if you can help out millions
01:23:14.920of creatures by spending a hundred dollars it's worth doing it but once again i'm just trying to
01:23:18.620understand so like you know you agree human pain matters you think shrimp pain doesn't matter
01:23:23.680i'm trying to understand what is it about shrimp that makes their pain not matter
01:23:28.060they're shrimp yeah i'm going to eat them
01:23:31.760that's a slam dunk let me defend effective altruist concern for shrimp welfare says this
01:23:40.220commentator brilliant we don't know whether shrimp are conscious phd from chicago this guy
01:23:45.680um but if they are conscious and can feel that they're obviously conscious the question is are
01:23:51.040they sentient right the i mean he's an economist so maybe he shouldn't expect that much from him
01:23:55.520but um is he sentient i yet to find any evidence of it but of course an animal is conscious because
01:24:01.920of course it tries to prevent itself from getting eaten uh anyway we should be willing to spend
01:24:07.160resources to reduce the suffering we inflict on them we don't need to certainly we certainly don't
01:24:11.560need to justify spending resources to reduce the risk that we're torturing conscious beings yes
01:24:15.320in reducing this to math can yield absurd conclusions about say how many babies we
01:24:20.680should sacrifice to spare how many shrimp from suffering why are we even having this discussion
01:24:25.600man and uh that doesn't exercise cruelty to beings that may be conscious not justify not
01:24:31.340carefully thinking about moral choices it's like yeah well i don't really want to be cruel to
01:24:36.460shrimp he's an economics professor yes he's also a stroke survivor so anyway well we'll we'll move
01:24:45.100on and uh so you get um and again this quite nice connections to utilitarianism here bentham's
01:24:53.240bulldog oh yeah has written this wonderful sub stack i mean you can read the title for yourself
01:24:58.620insects matter more than people in the aggregate well i mean i like some of them i don't even there
01:25:06.940i don't agree all insects are equal i certainly have my preferences but uh i don't agree that
01:25:12.500this guy never heard of fighting locusts fighting locusts locusts making sure that the locusts don't
01:25:20.300actually destroy your field oh yeah well efforts that are required to stop them from doing so well
01:25:24.980i mean i i honestly didn't know that this wasn't a parody i genuinely didn't yeah like i mean if
01:25:32.060if someone's like oh no that guy's a parody it's a work of genius but it doesn't seem to be a parody
01:25:36.960no but also why would you bother parodying utilitarianism on the internet what would be
01:25:42.140the point but anyway insects matter more than people um he has come to he's gone through some
01:25:48.520incredible reasoning a point i've made before is pain is bad because it hurts no that's why pain's
01:25:53.140good pain is good because it hurts exactly stops you from doing the thing that's damaging you
01:25:57.920over and over and over but it's like no pain is not bad because it hurts that's the that's the
01:26:02.780point of pain that's the reason for it being in profound and excessive pain is what is bad
01:26:07.580but pain itself having the feeling that it has teaching value it has an evolutionary value
01:26:13.620strictly necessary if if it didn't hurt when i put my hand on a hot stove why would i not do it
01:26:19.720oh rationally oh no i've damaged my hand anyway right so so it's this kind of childlike reasoning
01:26:28.980and he says well look um if insects cry out it's in a language we don't hear we cannot see their
01:26:35.100wounds and when we do we feel no sympathy for them to care for insects you have to actually think
01:26:39.120to see their suffering matters like ours does their deaths are lamentable because our deaths
01:26:43.680are lamentable your hearts will not get you there you have to use your brain it's like very clearly
01:26:47.640because the point is um every uh second 600 billion insects die and that's a bad thing so
01:26:54.660Right, okay. So these people are preposterous, but you can see the absurdity of having an ideology that has certain propositions built into it that are themselves propositions of universal animal feeling, right?
01:27:14.660Now, if we are to say that insects are more important than people, because there are more insects, therefore a quantifiably amount of more suffering, then you end up in ridiculous anti-human ideology.0.99
01:31:50.840Yep. From my segment, we've got Omar Awad, who says the left made the moderate position illegal because they assumed that the right side of history can only move in one direction.
01:32:03.620Opinion can be like a complaint mechanism. It has more than I sorry.
01:32:10.140It has more than one stable state and with enough energy while we'll violently snap to a different state rather than settling somewhere in between.
01:32:18.680yeah good point and uh i get one from michael oh yeah sure it says effective altruism sounds
01:32:23.940like the philosophy of a toddler no no no no toddlers have a far more red in tooth and nail
01:32:28.520tooth and claw philosophy this this is the philosophy of like a 14 year old who has just
01:32:35.260just learned about under utilitarianism or something like that uh this and then being
01:32:39.700given a lot of money to implement it yes toddlers have a much more realistic philosophy just to be
01:32:45.040clear because toddler philosophy is is often uh very much like in the moment and in the now and
01:32:50.200you know someone's getting slapped in the face and you know so it's real the way that toddlers
01:32:54.460deal with one another it's very real you know whereas this is the the product of people who
01:32:59.080have never been slapped in the face so anyway all right well that's all we've got time for today
01:33:04.260ladies and gentlemen we hope you've enjoyed the show do come back in half an hour to join
01:33:08.240for realpolitik and uh obviously tune in to breakfast with beau tomorrow and we'll see you