The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #968

00:00:00.000 hello and welcome to the podcast of the lotus eaters episode 968 for today wednesday the 31st

00:00:13.740 of july 2024 i am your host connor joined by carl hello and our guest andrew gold hello thank you

00:00:20.000 for joining us just a quick thing samson uh we can hear the echo coming through there

00:00:24.240 sorry and uh one of the lights isn't on magical we uh we're doing our best over here it's there's a

00:00:30.720 lot going on yes yeah the decline is is setting in but despite this part of the outside world

00:00:36.920 anyway andrew thank you very much for coming in and suffering for the for the tech issues you've

00:00:40.880 actually interviewed both of us now cole's interview with with you is up uh mine's in the next week in

00:00:46.040 the next week yeah do you mind giving a little brief career history to our audience my god like i didn't

00:00:50.640 know i could be asked questions on here just so everyone knows i've had to move my seat down to

00:00:54.200 not seem taller than these two just so everyone knows that i want them all to know that it's

00:00:57.640 cole's mandate yes it was i didn't mandate sam's mandated it i looked up at me so i'm very upset

00:01:02.700 no um well i mean that is true but just generally he said i'm very upset generally about tall people

00:01:09.160 yeah and life and life i'm just very upset um no uh well i was i was a journalist i started out

00:01:13.920 learning loads of languages trying to do a sort of louis through kind of thing going around the world

00:01:17.860 uh interviewing nutcases and weird things ufo believers that kind of thing um and then was

00:01:23.980 told after some time because you're a white man you have to go behind camera that obviously pissed

00:01:28.440 me off and made me think a little bit more about the politics of all of this because i could have

00:01:31.540 had just a cushy life with the bbc and all of those kinds of things um and then made a podcast that was

00:01:38.220 about cults because i was interested in all the ideologies obviously to anyone who's not insane the

00:01:43.100 trans thing is is a cult obviously it's one of the many and i did one out of every 15 or so was 0.97

00:01:48.520 like okay let's look at the trans thing everyone went completely mental every time i did that that's 0.66

00:01:52.360 my cult you can't look at that exactly that's exactly what and i used to say well okay you're

00:01:56.700 not happy i'm talking about your cult but i get the same thing from the scientologists and the

00:01:59.620 uh jehovah's witnesses and all of those people whenever so that was frustrating so a year ago i

00:02:04.420 canceled the whole channel stopped it moved to new one called heretics as you you've both been on it

00:02:09.460 and it's all the stuff you can't say because that's what's interesting isn't it you know and

00:02:13.220 i don't necessarily like the idea of like oh look at who you know you know that old thing of look at

00:02:17.960 who doesn't let you speak because sometimes people might say horrible things that really are horrible

00:02:21.620 and people are there's a bit of social stigma maybe we need a little bit of social stigma to say

00:02:25.020 hang on you shouldn't just say it you know but with trans with islam with immigration with some of

00:02:29.920 the aspects that we're dealing with and you guys deal with in this show that's what i wanted on

00:02:33.480 heretics and uh it's doing well and i'm just waiting for the point where i get completely pushed off by

00:02:38.280 youtube and have to come and live here which might happen at some point especially with your

00:02:42.720 interview your recent interview with a friend of the show richie heron uh you should all go and watch

00:02:46.140 that also the one with andy no lots of lots of friends of the show have been on andrew's but

00:02:50.580 today speaking things we can't say um we're going to cover the southport protests in the the

00:02:56.300 aftermath of the southport stabbing on monday also the simultaneous south end machete riots because

00:03:02.200 that's a british pastime we have to embrace now oh we're having technical difficulties with rumble

00:03:09.600 which is absolutely fantastic i i love that that's brilliant well it's something out of our control

00:03:16.600 isn't it yes yeah we're just gonna have to be um on hiatus momentarily i don't know who can see us

00:03:22.560 so hello people who can see us remember that um live aid and uh i think there was there was an issue

00:03:27.960 i think it was ricky gervais into he was supposed to be introducing elton john and elton just didn't

00:03:32.100 come out so ricky ricky was right at the early stage of his career at that point so what didn't

00:03:36.340 have the confidence he does today so suddenly he had to like do 15 minutes of just complete

00:03:40.000 impromptu talking to and it was it wasn't i love ricky gervais but it wasn't his best

00:03:43.560 moment it was just sort of clapping

00:03:45.200 so i'm just restarting rumble stream um the other streams will be running just rumble and restarting

00:03:50.360 okay okay sorry sorry for the people watching fantastic cameo for all the other screams

00:03:55.400 very professional outfit we are today um there's been a lot going on you've got to forgive us

00:04:00.180 because we have no other excuses yeah i suppose this is a sort of moment of light-heartedness

00:04:05.620 right before what is probably going to be quite harrowing yeah discussion god it's been a stressful

00:04:10.580 week isn't it it's been a stressful couple of weeks right excellent so we're back up so just to

00:04:16.060 recap we're doing the southport riots the south and machete riots and obviously the fact that the

00:04:20.400 establishment isn't capable of responding to this in a way which is satisfying those

00:04:25.380 outraged without further ado call yeah so last night there were riots in southport um after the

00:04:33.240 stabbing of these well it was eight girls but uh three of them died tragically and this genuinely is

00:04:40.980 one of the worst things i've ever heard of um as of the time of broadcasting um we don't have

00:04:47.300 firm details on the suspect uh we are aware that his parents are from rwanda and they came here in

00:04:53.740 1996 as i understand it um but that's basically all the information we have it is important to say

00:04:59.680 there has been a false name circulated which we will talk about shortly there has been what is

00:05:05.100 presumed to be his real name circulated we will not share or report that because one he is a minor

00:05:11.800 no matter the grievousness of his crimes to until he has been charged it will not be released

00:05:17.860 so just out of journalistic responsibility we won't be repeating that here and we advise people

00:05:23.480 don't post it in the comments and the like if you think you've identified it yeah uh we'll get to

00:05:28.280 fake news that was going around shortly as well um so after the tragic event there was a vigil where

00:05:34.580 thousands of people gathered in southport uh as you can see huge numbers of people uh gathered to

00:05:42.540 share their condolences and grief and this was very touching keir starmer went down and laid a wreath

00:05:48.320 and got heckled um but again it's not really his fault so i'm gonna have to disagree we can talk about

00:05:57.120 that another time um but there was an interesting event where a man was apparently arrested on the way

00:06:02.340 to the vigil uh because he had a machete or a knife of some sorts i haven't turned this on so i think it

00:06:09.520 was meant to be a flick blade and he's wearing a bandana yeah and uh he had a sort of distinctive

00:06:16.180 appearance and so everyone assumed that ah this is a muslim who's going to the vigil with a knife who

00:06:22.360 knows what that means um just to be clear we do not know the religion of the person who committed the

00:06:30.000 stabbing at this time so um who knows right but uh josh got a tip off from someone who claims to have

00:06:39.840 known the person who was arrested and says that he wasn't a muslim um but uh honestly all of this is

00:06:48.500 up in the air at the moment well he was arrested so he was spotted with the knife at 10 to 7 he was

00:06:54.760 arrested at 5 to 7 and that was an hour before the planned protest on saint luke's road had been

00:07:01.220 scheduled to go ahead so word had reached the ears of the people who were agitated and gathering at the

00:07:06.640 time yeah and so as i put in my tweet there this was one of the catalyst reasons why they started

00:07:12.540 targeting a mosque which was seemingly unrelated to monday's stabbing yeah uh there are other reasons

00:07:17.480 why they targeted a mosque as well um but the the point being we don't have any solid details so i would

00:07:23.620 strongly advise if you can't be sure about the things that you are saying don't say anything

00:07:29.400 um and in fact we may as well move straight on to the fake news then uh channel three now a fake news

00:07:36.560 channel uh posted 70 year old ali al shakati arrested for being the stabber he was not a syrian refugee

00:07:46.020 this is not his name uh this is totally false and this was doubtless a a significant contributing

00:07:54.480 factor to the protesters uh essentially becoming rioters in front of a mosque um there are other

00:08:01.760 people that we know who did this david atherton was one of them not to call him out particular but

00:08:06.940 lots of people um on our side were sharing this name because it confirmed a bunch of people's biases

00:08:12.400 uh it's not that the muslim community hasn't produced lots of terrorists or lots of people 1.00

00:08:18.400 who've done terrible things uh but we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions and it doesn't behoove us

00:08:25.480 in any way to be spreading false information again david has apologized here which is exactly what he

00:08:30.480 should do so of course you know uh that's the correct thing to do in this situation um the problem

00:08:37.060 is as the old mark twain quote goes a liar gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its

00:08:42.120 trousers on yes and there were people still yesterday after the vigil while the protests

00:08:46.840 were going on including lawrence who mistakenly repeated this claim and so this is another

00:08:52.860 contributing factor as to why the outrage of the crowd which is completely justified over the

00:08:58.780 atrocity committed was directed at the wrong target we don't know yet that it wasn't an islamic

00:09:04.080 terrorist action are doing no that's true yeah we don't but we also know that that was not the

00:09:09.000 identity of the man in question yeah and so to report that's true as fact is erroneous and

00:09:14.640 irresponsible and just so anyone in future sees anytime you see a screenshot of a news report

00:09:20.440 claiming to be true just go and track down the website because i saw it yeah i went and found

00:09:25.160 the website i saw the website didn't look credible within a couple of hours the website had changed it

00:09:29.800 which is why we have an archive link to the false reporting in the description just be careful

00:09:35.740 that's all basically if you aren't confident about the source just don't post it just don't comment

00:09:41.020 about it just let it slide until the real information comes out it really does do damage to

00:09:48.140 our side of the conversation if we are complicit in spreading fake news so anyway as you can see

00:09:56.080 things were getting very tense and a large protest sprung up around the mosque because of this fake news

00:10:01.860 now i just want to be clear yesterday on the podcast i told people do not go down here uh there

00:10:07.460 is nothing to be gained by going um but uh a lot of people of course don't listen to this podcast

00:10:13.480 more the more foolish they are and uh they did decide to go down a local resident did send me a

00:10:19.780 message he'd sent me details as it was unfolding on monday because his garden there were police 0.99

00:10:24.960 helicopters and evacuation ambulances flying over so he did verify lives in the area and he said that

00:10:30.140 there were numerous people that showed up from outside the town with distinct different accents

00:10:35.800 yeah who were clearly spoiling for some kind of fight because they brought booze to the event 1.00

00:10:40.640 yeah and so yeah and this was a powder keg and 100 and uh lots of them represented here uh

00:10:48.400 sometimes misrepresented by jack here as locals um i think it's clear that a lot of these people are

00:10:54.040 not locals so lots of them at the vigil were lots of them hectic here starma were

00:10:58.400 kicking down the fence of the mosque no lots of them were outsiders yeah at the at the vigil yes

00:11:04.500 but uh surrounding the mosque probably not because at the time of broadcast there's simply no reason

00:11:10.740 to think this man was a muslim there's nothing that indicates that yet at all um and so you had

00:11:17.000 locals chanting we want our country back you had people chanting allah allah who the f is allah

00:11:22.340 uh so you can see that this has this sort of distinct aspect of edl style street politics

00:11:28.620 which is why the local police said well this is the edl now as far as i'm aware the edl doesn't

00:11:34.320 really exist it doesn't it was disbanded in 2013 um so this is not the edl because such an

00:11:41.660 organization doesn't exist but it's probably not unfair to characterize it as edl supporters

00:11:46.680 or people who would be sympathetic to the edl which they should have frankly um been more careful

00:11:53.380 with their language but let's be fair everyone's been spreading a lot of fake news recently uh so

00:11:58.420 it goes both ways it's interesting to hear you guys speak so rationally about this given your

00:12:02.520 reputation belies that doesn't it it's an unfair reputation that you have i mean this idea that

00:12:08.420 if a politician speaks with either of you that they must be banned and thrown out oh yeah they

00:12:12.240 actually took the time to listen to how you guys speak as i've done and as your listeners and

00:12:15.940 viewers do i mean it's the polar opposite not only of what they would expect of you but of how they

00:12:21.680 behave because that other side i mean you're right in talking about these people who've got

00:12:24.840 you know maybe jumped the gun uh and said the wrong thing but on the other side we're getting

00:12:27.960 the same thing as well we're having jess phillips has just been saying uh the problem is is the

00:12:32.600 twitter reaction and the mobs and things it's like well hang on you know someone went and stabbed

00:12:36.460 a bunch of children it's a horrific thing uh the idea that this is the fault of the the rioting or

00:12:41.520 the mobs the mobs who as you say were probably wrong but come on there were still children killed

00:12:46.720 by an aggressor that's who the problem was yeah um and so as you can see things just kept getting

00:12:53.380 worse people started attacking the mosque itself attacking the fence and so naturally police had to

00:12:59.800 come to their assistance and begin preventing the locals on the locals the people who are attacking

00:13:07.540 the mosque from actually being able to do property damage which of course is their job and the correct 1.00

00:13:13.380 thing to do so i do want to say one thing on on the police if i may you should never attack a police

00:13:18.860 officer it's neither prudent nor especially in this case warranted because they're not at fault for

00:13:23.740 this no and they responded to the situation as quickly as they could and they wanted to save the

00:13:27.160 children's lives i do think there is a perception since the palestine protests since the leads and

00:13:34.540 hair hills riots the policing of this sort only ever seems to apply to the english population because

00:13:40.800 they know they will probably comply with it we will get to that in a little bit there are definitely

00:13:45.360 open aspects of two-tier policing going on um and it's not productive but it's also as you say not

00:13:53.320 warranted not good thing in and of itself to be so exuberant with the way that you're protesting i

00:14:00.260 mean if you are going to protest go and do it calmly go you've got to do it calmly otherwise

00:14:05.620 whatever you're protesting for you lose the crowd and you become the story and suddenly the issue that

00:14:11.760 you are trying to raise awareness of is gone completely and you are now in the crosshairs of

00:14:16.680 the powers that be story is no longer about the morning crowds who's who felt that the politicians

00:14:22.320 that turned up to make a spectacle of themselves were insensitive it is now the far right clashing with

00:14:27.460 the police 100 percent um and so speaking of clashing with police um again jack has uh posted

00:14:34.740 more footage did you hear about what happened to him yeah he got assaulted by the crowd because he

00:14:38.540 was a journalist and they assumed that he was a hostile journalist he's lost a tooth and his stuff

00:14:42.520 was stolen yes public are unfortunately helping him with you know the surgery needed but um again

00:14:49.320 people on the ground yeah not very wise but just i'm not going to play the footage just because i

00:14:55.500 don't know how youtube would react to it but um this was a particularly violent protest as well

00:15:00.620 uh lots of bricks and chunks of mortar and various other heavy objects thrown at the police uh lots of

00:15:08.780 people have been injured from this um if i think we have i think it was was it 39 injuries and eight

00:15:16.480 serious injuries yeah um as like it's just very very aggressive again i don't really want to play it

00:15:23.520 because i don't know how youtube will respond so you can see bricks being thrown there um this is

00:15:28.220 not good and these probably are the outside agitators especially the ones that are masked up

00:15:34.580 yeah you can't verify their identities you don't know where they came from yeah it's not out of the

00:15:39.140 question there might be some agent provocateurs mixed into the mix it's and so police uh riot vans

00:15:45.480 were deployed and uh as you can see riot police there with their shields um people scaling the van

00:15:51.240 setting them alive yeah yeah uh the police were eventually sort of sent into retreat

00:15:55.580 much uh much similar to what happened in leeds actually recently well i was thinking ireland

00:16:00.880 specifically and in ireland yeah because in parnell square obviously three children and a school

00:16:05.560 worker were stabbed miraculously all survived and this was also a second generation immigrant 1.00

00:16:10.360 50 year old algerian man um and the locals took to the streets started fights with police and it led to

00:16:17.600 the the toppling of the t-shock at the time so yeah um as you can see police van on fire

00:16:24.200 again very reminiscent of hails as well just uh the the same sorts of scenes um but uh just you know

00:16:33.940 absolute chaos right this is not in any way a good thing and shouldn't have happened and is

00:16:40.560 totally overwhelming the story about what has actually happened to cause this which is very

00:16:47.220 frustrating um but as you can see this just more events that honestly there's not much point going

00:16:53.500 over uh so we got a statement from the home secretary which of course was very um strong

00:17:00.500 and we'll compare that in a minute some of the other statements she's made about other riots that

00:17:05.020 haven't been strong um i'm not saying it's not warranted either but what i'm concerned about

00:17:09.840 is this kind of the hard face towards one community and the soft face towards the other

00:17:16.180 um which but we'll get to that in a second um so anyway this is what it looked like the next day

00:17:22.300 obviously an absolute wreck again very much like hair hills just absolute bomb shelter that bomb site

00:17:29.420 which is terrible um brick walls knocked over been burned rubbish in the streets for audio listeners

00:17:35.960 because it's and and as well this is why i i think there might have been a number of outsiders here

00:17:43.400 the difference between the hair hills riots and these riots is that these riots have taken place

00:17:49.400 in the neighborhood of the people that were attending the vigil so they've now got to deal with

00:17:54.660 not only the loss of their children but also the destruction of the area yeah the hair hills riots you

00:17:58.240 could see how a group of outsiders who didn't feel it was their home had no qualms about setting

00:18:02.480 setting fire to their home so i do wonder how many people from outside of south port were involved in

00:18:08.040 accelerating the violence it seems evident that's happened uh and uh the community of course is left

00:18:16.040 to clear it up which is not great a local construction crew just volunteered their time yeah

00:18:19.960 um so we have some actual reporting on this apparently 37 police officers were wounded 27 were taken to

00:18:25.400 hospital um the personnel finally stood down from major incident at 1 25 a.m so this lasted well into

00:18:32.300 the night not good um and so let's have a look at the um political response shall we so keir starmer

00:18:40.560 this was his response to the stabbing itself horrendous and deeply shocking news emerging from southport my

00:18:45.920 thoughts with those all affected i would like to thank the police and the emergency services for their

00:18:50.180 swift response i'm being kept updated so he could be speaking about a tsunami

00:18:54.540 or an earthquake there he could be speaking about a natural disaster he is not saying whoever did this

00:19:00.900 is getting the full force of the law we are going to come down on that person like a ton of bricks

00:19:05.980 they will you know i mean i could go further but i won't i won't go too much further but he could be

00:19:10.940 he could be condemning someone for doing this he's not uh but what he had said about the riots of course

00:19:18.060 is different the people of southport are reeling off the horror inflicted upon them yesterday again like it

00:19:22.980 was a natural disaster they deserve our support and respect of course uh those who have hijacked 1.00

00:19:28.220 the vigil for the victims with violence and thuggery have insulted the community as it grieves they will

00:19:32.120 feel the full force of the law so just saying do you have the footage of him being heckled

00:19:38.540 uh i haven't got it okay so given that he showed up as part of what i can only assume is the controlled

00:19:47.580 spontaneity program that they usually inflict on communities in the aftermaths of preventable

00:19:52.820 disasters like this and was heckled by local people some of whom were saying i i know one of

00:19:59.580 the girls that was killed i held her in her arm in my arms and i never will again why are you showing

00:20:04.240 up here yeah um given he he is the one who has insulted the communities it grieves here to use

00:20:11.340 that language bites of irony kind of cruel irony yeah it's very frustrating why do you think he

00:20:19.660 does that why do you think he comes down harder on the rioters than the the perpetrator because

00:20:26.080 they have a very plastic view of human nature that does not see people as having cultural historical

00:20:33.580 baggage and they are complicit in importing said people who may be more likely to commit said crimes

00:20:39.280 and so the moment that he does acknowledge that he has done that he is complicit and also as we've

00:20:47.240 seen with the palestinian marches they view any expression of british patriotism to the contrary

00:20:52.040 like those servicemen who are hoisting the union jack near the cenotaph as a provocation to the new

00:20:58.100 arrivals if we just suppressed our culture enough and just spoke about liberal tolerant british values that

00:21:02.940 could be anywhere they will just assimilate into the melting pot and so actually people that are

00:21:08.540 saying no no this was preventable this was a government policy this is possibly conducted by

00:21:14.120 a group of people who do not like us and will never like us they are the real threat to community 1.00

00:21:19.100 cohesion rather than the stab of themselves moreover they don't seem to view themselves as the legitimate

00:21:24.500 authority over the immigrant communities notice how they speak as a kind of an appeal to them it's like

00:21:29.840 well we're going to be kind to you and you will then hopefully accept that we're the people in charge

00:21:35.060 that's not how they act towards the english community they said no we know we're in charge of you we're going

00:21:40.400 to use the full force of the law and whatever that entails upon you they could give exactly the same

00:21:45.820 response to the rioting roma or muslims or whoever it is and leads they give exactly the same response 1.00

00:21:51.120 but they know that they will lose any kind of community um cooperation and okay well now what

00:21:59.200 what do you do when you have small sort of colonies of people who don't really respect the actual

00:22:04.360 legitimate authorities of the united kingdom you're in a bit of a bind but we'll talk about that in a bit

00:22:09.240 um because i thought we'd go on to yvette cooper uh because this was um particularly interesting how

00:22:16.340 people started juxtaposing her tenor and response to the say hare hills riot to the riot in southport

00:22:25.740 and i think it's just worth watching this well i've been talking to west georgshire police officers and

00:22:31.040 also local community leaders about the action they're now taking in response to those unacceptable

00:22:37.300 scenes of disorder and criminality that we saw last night the community is working very closely

00:22:44.060 together in response to what was a local child protection incident but it's really important

00:22:51.060 that the community can feel safe on the streets and also that the perpetrators feel the full force of

00:22:57.460 the law right so there's there's a kind of inauthenticity there right so well you know it's appalling

00:23:04.460 appalling the the reaction and the thing is in the case of the hare hills riots the community was entirely

00:23:11.540 at fault right it seems that social services stepped in because of a case of child abuse

00:23:16.400 and the community rioted because of the lawful and legitimate authority that was exercised over them

00:23:22.240 and she's got a very well i mean that's awful we just want the community to be safe we want to

00:23:26.780 cooperate blah blah this is and no the tone is very conciliatory when it comes to this community

00:23:33.340 whereas this is her reaction to the southport riots

00:23:37.120 so appalling to now see those same police facing violent attacks from thugs on the streets

00:23:43.740 who have no respect for a grieving community it's a total disgrace frankly this is a time when

00:23:50.600 everyone should be showing respect for a community and for the police now i totally agree with the

00:23:56.840 message but she's a lot more animated a lot more resolved in her facial expression this is something 0.99

00:24:02.660 she really means this yeah and that's what people are picking up on yeah they're very annoyed about

00:24:08.460 her one of the things that from investigating cults that i found is that belief is not um incentivized

00:24:14.100 by the pursuit of accuracy or truth so our beliefs we don't necessarily we like to think we hold our

00:24:18.940 beliefs because they're true but we actually believe them because they make us feel good because

00:24:22.600 the rest of the cult will say good good on you for having that belief and obviously you can see quite

00:24:27.360 clearly that this is somebody who feels that um she will be vindicated she'll be supported and

00:24:32.380 applauded by her peers for coming down hard on you know white blokes you know uh working class people

00:24:39.100 thugs as she calls them and will not it's as simple as that she's just being reined in the stigma around

00:24:43.960 her for attacking anybody who seems to be an immigrant or whatever in the first case is too much

00:24:48.860 for her so i'm sure she genuinely has those beliefs now oh yeah but that's how that's how it's

00:24:53.160 in the first clip there are clearly landmines she has been fed a script to strategically step 0.65

00:24:59.660 around yeah this next one i i don't think she was necessarily fed a full script i don't think she

00:25:05.860 needs to be no this is this is the point and i just want to be clear i agree with her on the right

00:25:11.220 i agree with her no that absolutely these people were misinformed they were totally out of line

00:25:16.100 they attacked an innocent party the mosque and the muslims there they they ruined this event this

00:25:23.660 this vigil for the people who are genuinely grieving like i totally agree come down on the full force

00:25:28.840 law now apply that to the other side yes i want the same response for both sides full force of the law

00:25:35.180 i want anger i want this kind of passion from them um but uh but anyway i thought we'd uh end this

00:25:40.460 particular part with just look at who wasn't there but the people who are still being blamed anyway so

00:25:47.140 i was very careful to watch mr robinson's twitter feed over this and uh he did not post the fake name

00:25:55.400 as far as i saw he did not encourage people to go there and he is not in the country because he's

00:26:01.140 currently on the run because he showed a film that they don't want shown uh so he is not involved in

00:26:09.080 this and responsible he just commenting on the thing after it's happened here so i thought that

00:26:14.060 was interesting and then today this morning he put out a video condemning the riots we will not

00:26:19.500 win our country back throwing rocks i fully understand your anger and i stand with the heartbroken and

00:26:23.720 devastated community in southport so he also condemns the people doing it i think it's correct

00:26:29.220 responsible well done but again there are lots of people and we'll get to them who are blaming

00:26:33.560 not only tommy robinson but also nigel farage who put out what i thought was honestly quite a

00:26:40.800 a weak sort of wet statement on it i mean it's only a minute long we'll listen to it well it's pretty

00:26:46.700 horrendous the third young girl has died as a result of the stabbings yesterday in southport i obviously

00:26:52.240 join everybody in my horror at what has happened i know the prime minister went to lay flowers and was

00:26:57.980 heckled and it shows you how unhappy the public are with the state of law and order in our country i

00:27:04.880 have to say there are one or two questions uh was this guy being monitored by the security services some

00:27:11.380 reports say he was others less sure the police say it's a non-terror incident just as they said the

00:27:19.220 stabbing of an army lieutenant colonel in uniform on the streets of kent the other day was a non-terror

00:27:25.540 incident i just wonder whether the truth is being withheld from us i don't know the answer to that

00:27:33.300 i think it is a fair and legitimate question what i do know is something is going horribly wrong in our

00:27:40.440 once beautiful country so that i didn't think that was an inflammatory statement at all that's why i

00:27:46.400 called it wet i think it was insufficiently emotionally resonant actually i'm yeah no i don't i don't doubt

00:27:51.520 that of course he shares the exact same feeling of horror at looking at monday's events yeah but

00:27:57.880 as acting like the king in waiting it wasn't sympathetic enough and i do think as well it

00:28:04.460 was insufficiently strong compared to the rhetoric we saw last week after the manchester airport hoax

00:28:09.980 that ironically richard tice given he's blocked you now came out very strongly and very correctly

00:28:16.400 alongside lee anderson saying no the police did the right thing here i guarantee this is this is

00:28:21.160 all ginned up the same wouldn't be applied to the other side etc and were completely vindicated i feel

00:28:25.600 like he could have been stronger here well that well that's what i'm trying to say it's i mean you know

00:28:30.400 judging the tone of it aside this isn't an inflammatory thing for him to come out and say these are

00:28:35.080 reasonable questions to which we have not yet got the answer and the answer could be no this was you know

00:28:40.700 a totally non-political thing that has happened who knows you know we literally don't know but lots of

00:28:46.760 people are saying well this is your fault nigel farage this is your fault tommy robinson it's like 0.94

00:28:50.100 no i'm not sure it is um i think honestly it's the fault of a bit of fake news that went around which

00:28:56.160 neither these two people shared um but also because of a more deep-seated issue with different

00:29:03.680 communities in the country that has been left unresolved yeah yeah there's always buzzwords any

00:29:10.540 ideology the buzzword is now tommy robinson is a buzzword nigel farage is a buzzword and these

00:29:15.680 are thought terminating cliches as you call them in the cult so just anyone can just i mean i i've

00:29:20.960 been in groups like that i'm sure you guys have as well for like friends or people you know who are

00:29:24.160 like all that needs to be said is nigel farage or tommy robinson and then critical thinking just

00:29:28.840 dies in that moment you don't need to say anything more so it does and and he's aware of that that's

00:29:32.620 probably why he has that tone he knows that anything he says is going to be misconstrued picked up by the

00:29:36.660 media so he's putting on his sort of best sad face and his best um states statemently uh states

00:29:43.540 what's the word statesmanly statesmanly face and there he is and he's doing his best at that but

00:29:48.660 no matter what he could have said anything and it was going to be picked up as nigel farage tommy

00:29:52.860 robinson the usual nobody thinks brains turn off the bbc reporting this morning as of last night

00:29:59.440 during the riots they didn't report about the second arrest at all but this morning they felt it

00:30:03.920 perfectly appropriate to bring on i can't remember who the other guest was but consecutively

00:30:08.000 somebody complaining about farage and then one of the lying communists of hope not hate to explain

00:30:12.780 why it's farage's fault it's insufferable isn't it anyway um let's uh read some rumble soup chats

00:30:18.720 joseph's angel says at some point the police will have to be held accountable just like ours in the

00:30:23.100 u.s will every level um possibly uh the last russian says are the children are my children next

00:30:28.180 prime minister uh which is what one of the hecklers said to um keir starmer and again

00:30:33.640 it's not starmer's fault directly at least so but not i think that starmer is going to solve any of

00:30:42.700 the problems and joseph's angels again says so the families of the victims are too emotional but

00:30:46.200 farage isn't enough we need radio do we need radio free england um i don't want to um i didn't say i

00:30:52.220 didn't say the families of victims are too emotional no i know i never said that i actually think it does

00:30:57.220 behoove nigel to remain calm at a time like this but um anyway let's uh let's move on to the other 0.64

00:31:02.740 riot that happened yesterday so that was one riot that happened up in the north uh near liverpool

00:31:10.220 uh but down in essex there's a lovely seaside town again it's a very interesting mirror image

00:31:15.940 of each other right so there's a lovely seaside town in the north uh which is southport but down

00:31:21.660 near london you have another lovely seaside town called south end it's not necessarily lovely

00:31:26.760 in recent years it's it's one of the sort of deprived areas like like clacton is this this

00:31:31.300 is me being polite oh no no the people the people are wonderful it's just it's another left behind

00:31:35.760 area decades of economic mismanagement i know yeah i thought he was being polite i could yeah

00:31:39.780 people from south please be patient i have since since the invention of the aeroplane the seaside

00:31:46.160 towns and resorts have gone down that is undeniably true but um look what they were exposed to

00:31:53.500 yesterday oh british pastime yes but you can see kids and families wandering around and like going

00:32:00.960 on the roller coasters in the background look up there on the roller coaster just like oh my god

00:32:06.040 and in front of it urban youths with machetes fighting out what i'm sure is a terribly important

00:32:12.020 duel of a territory or something and it's like oh my god this was not the case about three years ago

00:32:18.100 south end should we say demographics were almost entirely homogenous working class white english

00:32:25.320 and something happened and things are very different now and you can see by the time of day

00:32:32.060 the length of the shadows this is going to be roughly about the same sort of time as the vigil was going

00:32:36.060 on in south port there were again ethnic youths and so some sort of riots appears to have happened

00:32:42.900 so this is from a local twitter account breaking instance police helicopter is currently circling south

00:32:47.520 end seafront with reports coming in of multiple paramedics and police arriving at south end on

00:32:51.900 blue lights an air ambulance has landed we are hearing of a pub landlord in the city center having

00:32:56.440 barricaded the doors to protect customers inside from a developing incident uh the police have already

00:33:02.080 put out a dispersal order and uh they'll give you more decent they did uh you know post updates uh

00:33:08.060 there's a young man running through the high street holding a big carving knife

00:33:12.220 big carving knife um so it appears that there was some sort of riot in the middle of the town we

00:33:19.380 have more footage of it is uh again deeper into the town here um with king's english caption yeah yeah

00:33:28.320 men young men running around with giant knives or machetes why would men do this yeah why would

00:33:35.260 men generally do this um again lots and lots and lots of them running through the town

00:33:44.100 certain demographic particularly well represented

00:33:48.240 who knows what this is about do we know that violence i'm just thinking out loud here but is it

00:33:58.320 the case that the most hard-up areas always are going to have a certain element of crime there

00:34:02.500 and due to immigration and the hardships with immigration when you move somewhere you're going

00:34:07.700 to be among those so then the demographics always going to be ethnic youths who are more involved in

00:34:12.560 the violence that happens now as as people who are white or have been here longer gradually move up 0.92

00:34:17.140 that chain well it's not necessarily that poverty causes crime it's often that crime causes poverty

00:34:23.660 because if you have a crime ridden area no one's going to want to invest this is why lots of areas

00:34:27.460 have never recovered since the 2020 blm riots for example um as for the demographic breakdown of

00:34:34.840 let's let's put it this way when in the early 20th century there were jewish people that moved into the

00:34:44.180 blitzed areas of the east end of london when my granddad was growing up there were no roaming jewish machete 0.96

00:34:51.140 gangs just you didn't know my grandpa just as just as just as we've had hong kong asylum seekers there 0.99

00:34:59.480 were no hong kongese grooming gangs there is clearly a cultural and familial difference here that's

00:35:04.680 happened um among certain communities and it plays out in crime statistics i mean the fact that we're

00:35:10.920 commanded not to notice that means the problem is going to keep going on well you can you can see the

00:35:15.040 difference in the two riots right so in the the riot that was mostly english men in the north well you

00:35:20.760 didn't see a single machete yeah right in the in the in this riot which is mostly not english men

00:35:26.720 okay well now you're seeing machete battles going out on the streets there's a cultural difference

00:35:31.280 these people have different beliefs and ways of looking at the world and apparently this one

00:35:36.280 allows for some really quite awful behavior i mean this is a massive riot a massive brawl that's going

00:35:42.160 on outside of this uh mcdonald's well yeah i'm gonna mute it just because it's uh quite loud but

00:35:49.900 this is um where it all starts kicking off and it's two women fighting in this one the men are

00:35:56.720 trying to pull them on like who knows what this is all about this is all going to be about nonsense

00:36:01.140 absolute nonsense but um but it's just despicable why are you acting like this and the the other

00:36:09.340 element to say here is that it's even more jarring when and i understand news feeds are curated

00:36:15.760 towards certain bias by algorithms and who you follow and the like but when there is abundant

00:36:20.260 video footage in pretty much every western country of many new arrivals committing crimes against either

00:36:27.380 one another or the host population or even disturbing as we've seen in sweden or as recent

00:36:32.660 as southport second generation immigrants meaning assimilation efforts are failing when you see these 1.00

00:36:37.800 videos time and time again i can't be compelled to deny the evidence of my own eyes yeah the difficulty

00:36:43.620 is though because i knew it was coming on here so i was looking up some of the crime stats and they

00:36:47.260 don't seem to record them very well i couldn't find how many you know and i know i know what

00:36:52.380 you're thinking and that that's done deliberately and very possibly so the ons have already said we

00:36:55.680 do it we do it deliberately we want to stop it well that's insane recording them that's insane if you

00:37:00.220 are you familiar with neil o'brien the mp he tried so if you go and read his sub stack and his times

00:37:04.720 pieces and he was the one who collaborated with robert jenrich former immigration minister on his

00:37:08.840 immigration report and they had to do painstaking work just getting information on benefits claimants

00:37:14.820 and crime statistics and the like because they kept filing freedom of information requests as mps

00:37:19.080 these government departments and they said we're not going to collect the data it's too costly and

00:37:22.680 when they offered to pay them the money they said they don't have the data on hand we won't publish it

00:37:26.560 but what you can do is look at the ethnic breakdown of prisons you can see who is over and under

00:37:32.860 represented in the prisons they would say they would use that argument as well though wouldn't they the

00:37:37.620 other side they would say because the police are harder on why why aren't there like who's being

00:37:41.420 they they would say that but i would say that they're wrong and uh that that's cope um yeah i

00:37:47.780 don't believe it is structural racism actually i think that these people and if you were to drill

00:37:51.900 down into it and just pick a random one out of the crowd you'd say okay why is he in jail well he's in

00:37:56.360 jail for machete attacks or whatever it is well very importantly as well sorry before we move on

00:38:00.380 if you look at the census maps and you map them up with maps of drill rap gangs that operate because

00:38:06.360 they they chant the postcodes they're operating in admit to crimes they do map up with uncomfortable

00:38:12.040 demographic questions about the area it's interesting what you say about hindus actually

00:38:15.480 because i get really flustered when i try to mention any of this to do with the issues regarding islam

00:38:19.780 and people immediately go with racist well against what race are we talking about because i i've never

00:38:24.860 said anything about hindus sikhs please come do your thing there will be individuals of course there are

00:38:29.740 indecent and decent people in every group there seems to be an issue at the moment with islam and we

00:38:34.500 can't talk about it because it's seen as racist well this isn't islam this is like urban youth

00:38:39.020 culture sort of multicultural urban youth culture there's been a lot of it kind of imported from

00:38:44.900 america from the sort of gang culture and gangster culture of america it's not just america it is

00:38:48.820 africa so i went to i went to a grammar school southeast london you know it used to be quite a well-to-do

00:38:53.460 area and they broadened out the catchment area to places like thames mead or irith and the like

00:38:59.020 and even though there wasn't that much violence there was always a tension in the air between

00:39:03.740 the nigerian and the ghanaian kids and the african and the caribbean kids and then the black as a 0.84

00:39:08.640 collective and the white kids and it's when you're growing up with it it's noticeable and so it doesn't 0.95

00:39:13.420 shock me that these things happen yeah but anyway the uh the authorities and the council asked people

00:39:20.700 to simply not go to jubilee beach because of course there's a large influx of young people so these 0.97

00:39:27.320 again aren't locals themselves either and the bbc actually have quite a thorough report on this

00:39:33.680 as you can see eight people were arrested there were serious injuries reported after violent disorder

00:39:39.240 erupted quote unquote uh pictured machete wielding youths so just saying you know throwing bricks at

00:39:47.020 police yes that's bad this is also bad um so uh the essex police had to go in and disperse them

00:39:54.600 seven weapons were seized as uh videos on social media show people attacking each other um but look

00:40:01.880 at the location this was in this was on a beach where families are playing this could have been

00:40:06.020 more children dead this could have been more youths dead um chief superintendent morgan crowden said i'd

00:40:12.440 like to reassure the wider public that these were targeted attacks involving just a small fraction of

00:40:18.020 the visitors to south end yesterday right so the gangs the big crews out of those crews only a

00:40:24.580 few of them were engaged in this kind of ritualized machete combat so don't worry it's targeted and

00:40:31.700 it's just a small number of those people it's like but the entire gang is the problem right if any of

00:40:36.460 them have a machete they're all culpable right and this this is the way we used to do the law in this

00:40:40.700 country um they they all know they're hanging around with violent people who carry machetes who will

00:40:47.140 get involved in this they know that this is on the cards when they go to these things they're not 0.94

00:40:51.620 stupid they know right and it's it notice the tone of this it's like well it was just targeted 0.79

00:40:57.700 attacks involving a small fraction of the visitors south end oh that's okay then please understand per 0.99

00:41:01.700 capita yeah that's okay it's like i'm sorry i'm not i'm not in any way forgiving of this all of those

00:41:08.420 people are part of a problem that need to be dealt with they're all culpable if one of them has a knife

00:41:13.980 they should all be punished as if they have knives as far as i'm concerned um uh beo al alaba who's

00:41:20.240 the mp for south end of rochford uh said well this is quite shocking um send my thoughts out to all

00:41:25.560 of the people involved there are some in hospital with quite serious injuries those people will have

00:41:30.000 had machetes in their hands are we really sending our thoughts and prayers out to those people

00:41:34.820 like sorry i'm i'm speechless looking at the videos at the end of the day we don't want this on

00:41:40.300 our streets and in our community okay yeah the other question that needs to be asked and i think

00:41:43.600 the same question needs to be asked of the southport stabbing is parents they're culpable in all of

00:41:49.900 this yeah why is your teenager out on the streets late at night with a machete in his hand why why

00:41:55.540 have you not been supervising the lives of your child where they're involved either in gangs or

00:41:59.860 they're committing premeditated attacks against against young girls dance classes but the idea that the

00:42:04.720 parents are in not in some way culpable for the barbarous actions of their children

00:42:09.240 is strange to me nobody seems to be suggesting that whatsoever and this is another thing about

00:42:14.740 the um the gang of them it's trying to separate out the actual knifeman from the gang itself

00:42:19.680 but the knifeman is fighting for prestige within the gang they are culpable because they are the

00:42:25.360 their approval and their um the status he gains from winning these machete fights

00:42:31.140 are they are the ones who are part of that process so i'm sorry i'm as far as i'm concerned

00:42:38.180 they're all culpable for this it'd be a difficult law to enforce though because people you know to

00:42:41.920 what extent did you know and they could people just being present at the scene present at the

00:42:45.900 scene present at the scene of a machete fight you're just as guilty you know you're running

00:42:49.260 around in this you know you you can you and these are all outside people again right in fact uh one of

00:42:55.520 the owners of a local arcade um said that the this was anticipating there was intelligence this was

00:43:02.620 going to happen because a beach rave had been organized on tiktok and people had traveled south

00:43:07.860 end for it the exact same way the 2011 london riots were organized by bbm or the leads and hair heels

00:43:13.380 riots were advertised on tiktok and if they can and i know they absolutely will because they try to

00:43:19.180 after island if they can bring in speech legislation to shut down online speech and misinformation that

00:43:24.120 led to the southport riots for the english there is absolutely no reason why they can't

00:43:30.620 investigate the messages of the people seen at the scene and seen as to whether or not they were

00:43:34.460 trying to participate in and organize this giant meetup it's just a lack of political will moreover

00:43:38.820 the local mp said that they knew this sort of thing would happen because it happened again last

00:43:43.040 year it happened before last year it was exactly the same kind of event organized on tiktok with

00:43:49.340 ritualized machete duels in the same town

00:43:52.440 they know this happens and as the uh arcade owner said we knew it was going to happen because it was

00:44:01.620 all a tiktok and nothing was done as sadiq khan once said it's just part and parcel of living in a

00:44:06.740 big city yeah um again it should have been dealt with these larger groups meet up with other groups

00:44:11.720 okay if you have come to participate in that group you're all culpable you're all guilty you should all

00:44:16.240 be arrested that's as far as i'm concerned uh the labor leader of south end city council says these

00:44:21.700 are extremely upsetting scenes for our city we know a large number of youths came south end with 1.00

00:44:26.060 the intent to behave in a deplorable manner then arrest them then arrest them like arrest all of

00:44:31.180 the people at southport who were throwing you know any even if those individuals weren't personally

00:44:35.560 throwing a brick what were you doing there you know outside of the mosque no you get arrested too

00:44:39.520 if you personally didn't have a machete what were you doing there no you get arrested too

00:44:43.800 just being in a part of the social scene that was happening there is enough in my opinion

00:44:50.160 but uh but he says we need to learn how to stop these coordinated events

00:44:53.680 well they're doing it on tiktok you know where they're doing it you know how to do this

00:44:59.100 uh nigel farage had a stronger statement on this one machete fights in south end tonight a country

00:45:03.280 is being destroyed on values trash and public on the point of revolt well point being you know how to

00:45:07.180 stop it as well you stopped stop and search about decade ago now yeah it was racist it was very

00:45:12.140 effective at preventing knife crime because people thought as soon as the problem that you have is

00:45:17.140 if you have a community that does not necessarily buy into quote quote these british values we keep

00:45:20.760 hearing about which fundamentally is a sort of christian presumption of the inalienable dignity of

00:45:26.860 an innocent person right and a neighborly consideration of another person if they don't buy into that then

00:45:32.380 there's no reason why they should prevent themselves from one carrying machete into using it to seek gang

00:45:38.320 the only thing that stops them is fearing solipsistically for their own lives and their

00:45:43.760 own livelihoods and so if you attach massive criminal penalties and you ensure that you will

00:45:48.980 catch these people when they're carrying them they might do it less if you just take all of the

00:45:53.280 penalties away and you just say go ahead yeah of course you're going to result with more machete

00:45:58.380 yeah i mean this peter hitchens points out in the abolition of britain that at the turn of the

00:46:02.620 century um we used to hang any criminals who were involved in uh a criminal activity where someone

00:46:09.380 died all of them would hang so if four people were engaged in like a robbery or something one of them

00:46:15.560 had a gun and shot someone all four of them would hang because someone died and so what the criminals

00:46:19.660 would do is essentially pat each other down and make sure no one had brought a gun wow to this crime

00:46:24.140 to make sure that they didn't all hang and so i'm i'm totally in favor of returning to that style of

00:46:28.980 punishment not necessarily that we have to hang them although i am in favor of that um but all of 0.53

00:46:34.240 these people running what are you doing what what are any of you doing here what do you think you're

00:46:38.760 doing you know my concern with this though is just giving too much power to government to say hey

00:46:44.620 they were there they were there i totally get it in this particular circumstance but once you start

00:46:48.300 giving a government that kind of power to go about saying hey you would somewhere and by

00:46:52.000 association with someone else you were somewhere as well and next thing you know we'll all end up

00:46:56.960 in full counterpoint are they not doing that anyway except just with only one group well in what sense

00:47:01.460 um anyone associated with let's say the far right or mr robinson immediately gets lumped in with guilt

00:47:09.580 by association but not not arrest um quite a few people have but but also something has to be done

00:47:16.760 to break up this culture the the culture of gangs producing machete wielding champions to fight

00:47:23.140 each other on the streets of seaside towns sure has to be broken we just got to find a way to do it

00:47:27.380 without impinging upon individual liberty sure but i well let's say i was out with you guys somewhere

00:47:33.000 and then and you guys didn't know but i was actually a bit mental and i suddenly got a knife out and

00:47:37.480 started doing whatever i was doing if we had not got what you're not going to pat me had we had we

00:47:41.320 reported you to the police but these people know what they're doing this is a culture this they they

00:47:46.720 this is basically ceremonial at this point for these people they know what they're doing they

00:47:51.120 organized on tiktok you know this this isn't something where the participants like oh my god he

00:47:54.980 has a knife you know they know they all know and i'm like i'm i'm more than happy to have a

00:48:00.240 conversation where well there needs to be like you know like um gradations of responsibility and

00:48:06.000 restrictions on how far we go there absolutely yeah but but the people involved need to know

00:48:10.360 that they are going to be criminalized even if they themselves are not are not carrying machete

00:48:13.980 knowingly turn up to a fight yeah you're responsible for what happens in the fight exactly

00:48:17.580 you're complicit in it you know we're also talking about this entire event in the aftermath of the

00:48:22.820 2020 blm riots where thousands of people participated in the uk and more severely in the us

00:48:27.760 and were not prosecuted at all even though their faces were on camera they were committing crimes

00:48:31.460 multiple people died there was just a permissiveness in the justice system towards any community which

00:48:35.960 purports to be marginalized and i think it's because they know that they cannot police by

00:48:41.740 consent those communities but they can the the native population yeah well this is a problem 1.00

00:48:48.020 actually law changing depending on who it is as you've been discussing because they're scared

00:48:52.580 yeah don't know what to do yeah i just had uh mark burbeck on who talks about um he was he's like a

00:48:57.320 non-jewish pro-israel protester and the difference between how the police treat them to how they treat the

00:49:02.360 pro-palestine crowds is is just it's because that's but they're scared it's been going on a

00:49:06.220 thrown out the conservative party for saying it's been going on a speaker's corner for years

00:49:10.040 where the muslim community will come in in a show of dominance and just stop praying all of it but 1.00

00:49:14.460 they're not allowed to do that that's that's banned you're not allowed to pray at speaker's corner 0.94

00:49:17.800 right and so the christians can't do this and the police just stand around and watch the muslims do it 1.00

00:49:21.940 and it's like you know it's just on display and it is exactly you say they're afraid of this

00:49:28.180 community um but anyway we'll um we'll leave that there and go to the rumble super chats um evan

00:49:34.120 says something that's wise to read quite uh inflammatory um i can't read that well not just

00:49:39.720 that not just we can't read it out he is urging us to disclose the name of the attacker yeah no we

00:49:44.960 legally we legally cannot you have to understand this it's not it's not a matter of being cowardly

00:49:49.320 it's the the the regime will come for us if we disclose true information so you either either

00:49:56.140 keep us on air and you still get your information or we are martyred for something that is and frankly

00:50:01.660 useless just to be clear we're not even sure we have the correct information yet like there are

00:50:06.700 rumors going around but this hasn't been confirmed by any credible source until we until charges have

00:50:11.880 been brought it just there is corroborating evidence but still it's it's our responsibility not

00:50:16.780 to give that out yeah why don't they bring that out why don't the police say who it was what and

00:50:21.160 leave us all speculating i think there are a few reasons there yeah one questions is because a young

00:50:26.980 child well not young child actually 17 year old but but standard of the law um misspoke there number

00:50:34.060 two it's because before when charges have been but when the identity of suspects have been leaked

00:50:40.320 before charges have been brought they have been mistakenly pilloried for that i mean with

00:50:44.420 thinking dan witten for example um not that these situations are comparable and the third one is

00:50:49.200 that because this is inconvenient to the narrative because this is a second generation rwandan

00:50:52.940 immigrant so it shows that just by making contact with british institutions and british values across

00:50:57.540 the lifetime this does not automatically dissolve hostile identity priors in the multicultural milieu

00:51:04.800 there's also they there's a kind of um unspoken understanding that there are there there is group guilt

00:51:17.880 right we don't like to admit this in a modern individualistic liberal society but they know that

00:51:24.220 there's group guilt which is why this the attacker isn't rwandan he's from cardiff he's welsh so the guilt

00:51:31.260 is not placed on a foreign people the guilt is firmly placed on the british um because they and this is

00:51:39.660 why every single time they will do everything they can oh a man did this well you could tell us what kind

00:51:44.400 of man you could specify his heritage the culture he comes from but they don't want to do that because

00:51:49.880 they know that group guilt will be accrued by that group and so they do everything they can to obfuscate

00:51:56.120 this for as long as possible in order to prevent that from happening and i'm not saying that it's

00:52:01.060 right or wrong either right they're the people doing it will be thinking from a moralistic liberal

00:52:07.360 perspective saying well look if we do that we're just going to be inciting hate against this group

00:52:11.520 and we don't want to do that okay i i get the point but the thing exists whether you admit it or not

00:52:19.600 and so if you are constantly playing defense for that group then it looks like you're in defense of

00:52:25.360 that group even though you are trying to prevent group moral culpability it looks like you're in

00:52:32.040 you're sympathetic to it at that point so it makes you look bad as well as the group looking bad because

00:52:37.500 the moral burden accrued by the group still exists people i mean when polled people are not happy with

00:52:43.300 certain groups in this country that they feel have accrued this moral debt and if you look at like you

00:52:48.100 know the sort of like likability of roma gypsies the muslim community and things like that they're very

00:52:53.380 very low people hold this in their hearts whether you want to admit it or not it's also not a racial

00:52:59.620 thing unlike in some of the european that's a behavioral thing exactly because britain is commonly

00:53:04.460 ranked as the most likely nation to accept a neighbor of a different ethnicity or having someone marry into

00:53:11.280 their family if their son or daughter loves them so it's it's predominantly around does this group feel

00:53:16.840 like they're living alongside me like a neighbor and lots of them don't and to admit that yet again

00:53:22.320 the perpetrator is one of these non-neighborly groups rubs up against the liberal narrative that

00:53:26.680 everyone can be assimilated just as they're a net economic contributor yeah um just before we move

00:53:32.400 on to the next section um there are lots of fed posty comments we can't read any of them guys come on

00:53:37.880 you have to be responsible i realize this is very emotional at the moment we're doing our best to

00:53:42.980 maintain um a very calm demeanor but trust me in the back office we've been pretty angry past week or so

00:53:48.560 well i've literally been saying to my missus okay um when when we're married and we'll start a family

00:53:53.240 in the next year um do i know if i send my daughters off in future to the school and after school club

00:53:58.700 they're going to come back alive yeah and so like that's a serious consideration like obviously you

00:54:03.420 as a dad probably also had so well yeah obviously and i understand i understand the need for catharsis

00:54:08.380 with all of this but we can't read these comments out we you know it's not it's out of our hands

00:54:13.920 um so i think andrew you brought up a great question earlier a great point earlier they're

00:54:19.620 afraid and i think that this is because they simply don't know what to do yeah they're stuck

00:54:24.520 with the problem of their own making and they don't know what to do about it um as you can see

00:54:28.540 here just a quick flashback not even a month to anna soubry everyone's favorite liberal democrat who 0.99

00:54:35.840 found themselves in the conservative party temporarily uh is just me upon the accession of

00:54:40.680 but suddenly everything feels normal no more psychodramas and scandals like the grown-ups

00:54:45.880 are back in government and people can get on with their lives watching politics out the corner of

00:54:50.220 their eyes safe did you see her tweet yesterday as well no i didn't actually she was tweeting at

00:54:54.380 lee anderson saying oh has lee anderson been on the source or done done a incorrect google and

00:54:58.700 confused southport with uh with south end by any chance because he he tweeted the machete attacks

00:55:03.220 yeah yeah and and he said and lee anderson just quite retweeted her saying are you drunk did you not

00:55:07.220 know these two things were going on at the same she didn't know yeah she didn't her filter bubble

00:55:11.260 on social media kept that out i love that first reply bookmarking this one this lewis is a friend

00:55:17.360 of the show you should have him on yeah you should citizen journalist okay lewis is great um but that

00:55:22.040 he's exactly right and that's why i brought this up just because again 23 000 likes million views

00:55:27.100 this is a tweet lots of people felt resonated oh thank god the adults are back in the room it's like

00:55:32.600 okay well we're two three weeks later how's that looking actually yeah um pretty bad and you know

00:55:39.000 things aren't safe the grown-ups don't seem to be managing this very well because i don't know what

00:55:44.000 it is you guys think you can do about any of this you know it's it's you you guys the heirs of the

00:55:49.520 blairite paradigm have are the people just left holding the bag with all the problems start manifesting

00:55:56.480 themselves as multicultural as multiculturalism does um so i guess we'll start with the mayor of

00:56:02.400 liverpool city uh who said well i don't understand why people want to weaponize the deaths of three

00:56:07.140 children for the investigations have concluded because they don't feel the investigations are

00:56:10.820 being transparent yeah but they don't feel that anything will happen or anything will change

00:56:14.580 it's such a bizarre inclination to you know this horrible horrible things happened a lot of people

00:56:20.020 are very angry and sad and worried and they want to know why and we're all going why why why and then

00:56:24.820 we've got these people coming out going why are you weaponizing don't worry about why we'll deal

00:56:28.840 with all this well you're not dealing with it because it keeps happening and moreover this is policy

00:56:33.620 like allowing millions and millions of people from anywhere in the world without any consideration to

00:56:39.180 like you know the political history of that country in the case of rwanda or the general crime rate of

00:56:44.880 the country or the religious tendencies of the country that people have been letting indiscriminately

00:56:50.080 that was government policy for the last 25 years and so why are you weaponizing this politically well

00:56:56.600 what did you expect did you not expect a political reaction from your political policy obviously people

00:57:02.020 are going to respond in this way and this i don't understand why people want to weaponize well then ask

00:57:05.600 them ask them go and ask them you can literally just go up to one of the protesters and say why are you

00:57:11.380 doing this and he'll tell you why because he doesn't feel safe in his own bloody country it's

00:57:15.680 insufferable i find the responsible of this just absolutely insufferable well also we're being

00:57:21.540 you know taunted with this uh oh the grown-ups are back in the room kind of yeah you know the

00:57:25.780 grown-ups who want to increase immigration even more than the previous grown-ups so these are the

00:57:29.280 grown-ups when you're taunted like that of course your response is going to be oh yeah well let's

00:57:33.300 bookmark this that's what happens yeah absolutely in fact um kia starmer being heckled kia starmer is

00:57:39.340 actually against the levels of immigration we have actually kia starmer on paper wishes to bring

00:57:45.040 these down okay i have to no no i have to argue sorry who is his puppet master uh tony blair yeah

00:57:51.540 who orchestrated all of this tony blair okay and right before the general election was called they

00:57:56.280 had a debate in parliament about palestinian refugee visa scheme yeah and the shadow immigration minister

00:58:00.700 now the immigration minister says we have already drafted a ukrainian style refugee visa scheme for

00:58:06.260 palestinians considering the cultural and historical baggage that may be brought to bear against the

00:58:11.520 british um yeah overall numbers don't really matter when you want to import hundreds of thousands of

00:58:16.600 hostile terrorists well i'm just saying that uh he isn't going i'm not saying that he's going to be

00:58:21.920 based kia starmer is going to get the net immigration down to negative um but what he will do is take it 0.99

00:58:26.820 down from 700 000 to 300 000 um lots of those reforms were already implemented by the last idiot home 0.93

00:58:33.940 secretary sure but the the reason that it was more than a million coming in every year is because the 0.96

00:58:38.360 conservatives are terrible at everything uh and kia starmer will come in and instantly tony blair's

00:58:43.240 trending how fascinating uh tony blair has doubtless been in kia starmer's ear going what are you doing

00:58:47.540 that's unsustainable people will revolt and we won't get the mass immigration that we want we will get an 0.87

00:58:52.520 end to immigration entirely you say that though again his justice minister first week 40 000 criminals

00:58:58.600 like bain i know the entire last few weeks have had multiple riots multiple stabbings has tony blair

00:59:03.200 been getting on him and going you've got to get out in front of this do you this is terrible optics

00:59:07.000 blair wouldn't have done this yeah yeah so so he's i don't think he's nearly as competent as you

00:59:11.340 think he is no no i i'm not saying i don't think it's blair i think it's starmer no no i'm saying i

00:59:15.100 don't think starmer is nearly as competent as you think well no i'm not saying that starmer is competent

00:59:18.140 but what i'm saying is i think starmer will get immigration down to about 300 000 a year net

00:59:22.660 not that that's good because one of the one of the advantages of the conservatives being utterly

00:59:27.320 incompetent is it makes immigration an unbearable issue say well look you know the the towns and cities 0.98

00:59:33.420 all across the country are just changing beyond recognition at least when it's in your face in

00:59:39.800 the way the conservatives have put it it becomes a live political issue but if if they turn it down

00:59:44.340 and so it's like well you know it's only 300 000 it's not that much it becomes much less of a

00:59:48.820 pressure but the thing is the effect is still the same it just takes a bit longer right and so you

00:59:53.360 know you still end up with the pro-palestine lot with bigger and bigger mobs you know so taking longer

00:59:58.200 is important because taking longer that that's the problem that we have is social cohesion and it

01:00:02.700 that by having so many people so quickly that's that's part of the problem if you have people hope

01:00:07.280 you hope that within a few generations they start to but they aren't though the numbers are still just

01:00:13.240 too high it's not just the numbers okay let's let's just say for the sake of argument that i could

01:00:19.500 flat pack build houses to accommodate hundreds of thousands of people every year why should i why should

01:00:25.880 that's i mean i should reserve the right to say you're not going to be good of course in no matter

01:00:30.700 what numbers therefore you shouldn't come of course but the left will say okay but we need skills we

01:00:35.320 need jobs we need whatever aging population yeah that that actively counts against having kids sure 0.99

01:00:40.680 they'll they'll come up with their own answers but that's that's not germane to the issue of

01:00:46.120 integration right the the issue of integration can't happen because the people who hold british values do

01:00:51.500 not live around the immigrants and so the immigrants have no long exposure to the values they 1.00

01:00:55.680 can't imbibe them they can't feel pressured to adopt them and it's because we have handled this in the

01:01:01.820 absolute worst way because what we've done is allowed the immigrants to go wherever they want 1.00

01:01:05.300 right norway didn't do this norway literally told them no you're going to this remote norwegian town

01:01:11.320 and it's just your family's going to this one town so you're going to integrate because you're

01:01:15.160 literally the only family there right and so the norwegian process of this has been a lot better than

01:01:20.340 ours we've just allowed colonies to spring up and so yeah go where you like it doesn't really matter

01:01:24.140 it's like no this absolutely matters and when it's 300 000 a year you know net or 700 000 a year

01:01:30.320 net the number is just far too high it would have to be something like 10 or 20 000 for this to not

01:01:35.680 happen but it's we're way beyond that so and as connor says we have to then encourage higher birth

01:01:41.440 rates to to keep up absolutely and notice how the the conversation is not about integration anymore

01:01:46.480 no one ever mentions integration anymore this just doesn't come up because what are they going to

01:01:50.340 integrate to like luton is what two-thirds non-english how are they going to integrate to

01:01:55.480 the english community when the english community is swamped by foreign peoples and also anytime

01:01:59.620 the english are brought up as having a collective ethnic and cultural and historical identity it's

01:02:04.000 negative being beaten with the unique and inappropriate cudgel of slavery and all of these

01:02:09.660 other things despite us having a better track record on those things you know you know it's a funny

01:02:12.900 thing and i'm sure you've seen this before but i live i lived in argentina for six years and i came to

01:02:17.040 realize uh that that the i always thought of nationalism as a very right-wing thing of course

01:02:21.480 and it was the left over there and then i came to realize other countries canada for example it's the

01:02:25.180 left that tends to be very nationalistic it's the countries that see themselves as a little bit

01:02:28.380 smaller on the world stage the left gets really nationalistic and it was so interesting to see

01:02:32.200 lefty argentines over there just like loving all the uh evita peron stuff they've got cafes called

01:02:38.040 evita evita or something like that they all do the national anthem they're loving the football team

01:02:42.280 and it's so bizarre then you come back and it's any pride in your country here people are going in

01:02:46.540 a derogatory way you're right wing this and that and really nationalism can be anywhere and we should

01:02:51.220 be able to be proud with of our country without having to pick a side politically no i think that's

01:02:56.340 totally true but the the problem is our left has become an internationalist left uh they're for

01:03:01.760 everything non-british and yeah everything foreign so it's it's it's just okay well then how can we

01:03:08.300 because i mean like it you know the sort of blue labour types i don't doubt i would get on with 1.00

01:03:13.320 very very well you know the sort of the largest socially conservative cohort in this country are

01:03:18.080 not satirite economically no absolutely something that matt goodwin's pointed out and this is a

01:03:21.440 limitation actually to for to reforms reach electorally is that their economic policies are

01:03:25.840 off putting to people in the red wall yeah but but on a on a sort of patriotic level these people

01:03:30.240 are going to be just as patriotic patriotic as anyone else you know they're not internationalists and

01:03:34.700 that's the the different fracture we've got now um speaking of internationalists actually let's take

01:03:39.160 uh humza yusuf oh god incredible right so of course police monitoring the far-right rally and he

01:03:44.800 responds to simply awful the only response to the evil we witnessed in southport today should be an

01:03:49.760 outpouring of grief for the children and adults killed in such a senseless attack if you such a

01:03:53.540 tragedy uh horrific tragedy to feel bigotry then you are the worst of humanity it's not the only

01:03:58.260 response now we should ask was this preventable actually yeah that's why i did ask and i

01:04:03.080 ratioed the hell out of him this use of worst implies worse than the actual murderer exactly

01:04:07.780 that's insane isn't he's insane well he it well is he insane or is he just evil himself because i 0.86

01:04:15.400 like you you will remember his white speech head of police wait i can't do it i can't do scottish 0.99

01:04:20.240 white white the victims in southport white uh sorry humza i think you hate white people 0.96

01:04:26.280 yeah and i think it's fair to say that you hate white people i'm you know i think there's good 0.98

01:04:30.300 evidence as to why that may be the case and if you think that being a racist is worse than stabbing 0.82

01:04:37.480 children then i think you're mad um plus we don't i mean how is were they all racist or were they

01:04:44.680 concerned about well that's yeah obviously yeah obviously but but let's just take it as a given

01:04:50.120 they're all racist sums up just the steel man your argument they're still not as bad as the people

01:04:54.660 the person who murdered a bunch of children just think throughout time every everyone's racist that's

01:04:58.960 that's human right we're tribal we're every single person especially you two and i'm joking but

01:05:02.840 especially especially humza it's always been the case that we notice differences whether whether it

01:05:08.160 be race heights whatever somebody looks like your mom so you're nicer or less nicer we that's just

01:05:12.700 humanity sure but we create social uh stigma we said we create societies around us that say this

01:05:19.120 this part of uh bigotry let's say is acceptable today and humza's found that loophole so he's just as

01:05:25.320 racist and angry as we all are sometimes but in this particular time and place he's able to do

01:05:31.020 that anti-white racism in 50 years it'll be something else you're allowed to have a go at

01:05:34.060 and uh to be particularly cynical about this i kind of feel that if the stabber's parents hadn't come

01:05:40.180 from rwanda and perhaps had come from scotland then he wouldn't be quite as like oh you know the

01:05:46.460 racists are the real problem here you know if he'd come if he if he was white himself i don't think

01:05:51.480 they'd be complaining about the far right rally so much you know just to say we can only guess but 0.97

01:05:55.640 um and so the the response from kiss armor um there's another humza yusuf basically was calling

01:06:02.100 for uh censorship as well we need to take action against the far right here we go stabbings aren't

01:06:08.000 something we need to worry about we need to prescribe the english defense league well let's

01:06:12.720 prescribe the nazi party as well if we're prescribing things that don't exist yeah but then that might

01:06:16.480 render the smp out of existence good point good point um but uh but the english defense league

01:06:22.060 don't exist they were disbanded in 2013 so prescribing them wouldn't do anything the people

01:06:27.120 themselves would still exist and taking action against them because they were angry well i mean

01:06:32.140 sure take legal action you know against the guys involved in the riot again i'm happy for them all

01:06:36.800 to be collectively punished what were you doing there all of you in the videos boom whatever the

01:06:40.700 punishment is i don't mind um but this is the natural left-wing response because what this does

01:06:46.460 and this is what really is the the underlying tectonic shift that they're feeling is this is the

01:06:54.200 inherent weakness of multiculturalism and if one side acts like the other side then

01:07:01.340 there is a distinct power imbalance there right the the roma community of leeds or hair hills is not 0.76

01:07:09.640 going to have the same kind of political power as the english community if they operate in the same way

01:07:15.520 and this is what they're afraid of oh no if that happens then the entire thing gets flipped and we

01:07:20.460 essentially turn into an english nationalist country because if they if there is a sort of

01:07:25.260 collective politicization along the lines of these identities we're happy to politicize all of the

01:07:30.800 minority identities against the majority who are not allowed to be politicized but if they find

01:07:35.380 legitimate reason to politicize themselves then it's an english nationalist country and it will be

01:07:39.480 forever and people like humzy youssef are the ones who are going to be actually on the outside of the

01:07:46.380 paradigm whereas at the moment he's right in the center of it and so that's why they're terribly

01:07:51.300 afraid and that's why they want prescription of the english defense that's one that all the far right

01:07:55.820 all of those people who represent indigenous identity need to be made illegal because if they're legal they 1.00

01:08:02.440 can flip this entire board and that's what he's worried about man can you imagine if i ran to be what was he

01:08:09.240 was the what minister first minister of scott first minister if i was the first minister of like

01:08:13.680 rwanda yeah or bangladesh bangladesh just going this person right bangladeshi bangladeshi what's

01:08:21.040 going on i'm angry you know how they well i just can't believe that and it's mad isn't it it's it's

01:08:26.120 when you think of it when you sort of zoom out a bit it's it's incredible we've gotten to this point

01:08:29.640 i think about this a lot having lived in different countries and then you come back to england you go

01:08:33.080 oh my god the sensibilities we have aside from maybe canada australia parts of america the anglos

01:08:39.220 sphere yeah they're nothing like anywhere anywhere else there was that big story about the

01:08:42.960 argentinian football team they sung a song that was deemed racist and it probably was racist i don't

01:08:47.860 know um when they won the copa america football thing recently and like i know from being an argentiner

01:08:53.280 they have a different attitude they make jokes about race and it's actually going okay for them 0.67

01:08:57.760 they they find joke race is funny and they can joke about it they don't care whereas here all i'm

01:09:02.380 getting on the radio every like everyone's opinion every single person was just okay so what if he

01:09:07.260 apologized he needs to be punished more punish the guy for singing the song punish him re-educate we

01:09:11.760 need to send him to re-education camps and you go how is this moral imperialism allowed from the left

01:09:16.920 the left are going you know well don't tell others cultures how to do unless unless it's about wokeness 0.97

01:09:22.760 then we're going to go and tell them go in and tell this country that's doing fine on its own

01:09:25.920 i get so fed i get so frustrated about this i actually lose sleep over it but the questions of

01:09:30.920 representation are really important i mean you can't imagine going to any foreign country

01:09:35.080 outside of europe and north america and expecting to see the people at the top of that country not

01:09:42.720 being of the ethnic majority but that would be crazy if you went to china and there was like some 1.00

01:09:48.020 peruvian in charge and there were a bunch of peruvians in the rival parties and there were

01:09:52.380 peruvians in all of the levels of government and civil service you'd be like did you guys get taken

01:09:56.640 over or something and yet look at the conservative party leadership contest at the moment so what is

01:10:01.660 happening here man kemi badenoch's chief selling point is that britain is not a racist country

01:10:06.760 lefties because look how far i've gotten and it's like right so the premise of that is if you had not

01:10:12.760 gotten to the position you are and if you don't keep advancing in positions then somewhere along the

01:10:17.340 chain there is institutional racism that indicts the entire country actually no i don't need to elect

01:10:21.700 you prime minister to feel better about myself yeah and moreover if we're going to talk about

01:10:25.640 representation how does humza yusuf actually represent scottish people and you know it seems

01:10:31.600 to be actively racist against them yeah well i think of most ali as well yeah uh you know the ali

01:10:36.560 akbar stuff yeah and people just saying oh it means god is great are you kidding me what it's got no

01:10:40.880 other connotations yeah no other connotations you're supposed to shut that in a cinema and everyone's

01:10:45.260 going to remain in their seats he's just been elected to represent the british people the british

01:10:48.640 people who see who hear that word in their worst nightmares if he isn't aware that there's another

01:10:53.300 connotation for us and again imagine me going to some arabic country and speak in hebrew or

01:10:56.920 something when i've been elected to the i don't think you'd last very long no minister of defense

01:11:02.600 arab anyway won't get out the airport so uh so yeah humza yusuf had awful takes but what's a

01:11:10.240 surprise there um keir starmer had an awful take as well oh well this is the problem with uh southport

01:11:16.760 is knife crime and this is the worst framing i've seen ever it's like the scene in macbeth

01:11:23.100 where just the visage appears floating towards duncan it's like the knife did not animate itself

01:11:28.680 suspended in the air funnily enough someone was holding it who was that person we can't ask

01:11:33.120 questions i hate this so much because this isn't knife crime because when we say knife crime in

01:11:38.820 britain what we're talking about is actually the south end events where it's youths going around with

01:11:44.260 weapons stabbing each other in the street that's not what happened in southport what happened in southport

01:11:50.920 was a conscious targeted attack we know that the the man who did this wore a balaclava chose his

01:11:58.380 target got a taxi there refused to pay the taxi driver and then went in and conducted what looks

01:12:04.340 like a terror attack now again i don't know what the reasons for it were yet obviously um but this

01:12:10.640 wasn't just gangs of people on the street fighting each other this is not knife crime this was an attack

01:12:16.560 a targeted attack on the most vulnerable people he could find which was schoolgirls so you know for

01:12:24.580 the fact that kia starmer can't even admit and has to try and pivot to something else is disgraceful

01:12:30.100 in my opinion absolutely disgraceful but again he doesn't know what to do what's he supposed to do

01:12:34.380 he's afraid he's like well knives are bad yeah but that wasn't the issue that wasn't the issue the

01:12:39.100 issue was someone wanted to kill a bunch of english children why did he want that kid

01:12:43.920 today isn't i suppose it would be irresponsible before he knows more you'd like to think he does

01:12:50.520 know a bit more at this point maybe yeah it could just be a person who has mental health difficulties

01:12:54.840 could be anything yeah we we don't know and they haven't been hang on but that doesn't that doesn't

01:12:59.360 preclude us from holding them culpable i mean remember the nottingham stabbing he got held he was found

01:13:05.060 guilty for manslaughter and put in a in a psych ward sorry every other american serial killer i mean

01:13:09.940 nobody would think that jeffrey darmer didn't have mental health difficulties still found him culpable

01:13:15.400 enough to send him to prison for life or ted bundy like we were perfectly happy to stick him in the

01:13:19.620 but what i mean is that at this point kia starmer there's as you say there's very little he really

01:13:24.240 could say because it could be a mental health issue and then he should be saying hey we need to do

01:13:28.060 something about mental it could be an islam issue and then he has to say you know but at this point he

01:13:32.400 can't really sure but carl's writing that it's not knife crime it wasn't the spontaneous turf war

01:13:36.220 it was it was a targeted attack whether or not it's islamic terror is who knows yeah we don't know

01:13:41.100 is irrelevant to the point it was a terror attack it was an attack that was designed to to strike fear

01:13:47.020 in the heart of a particular community yeah and we don't know the reason for it yet um so uh there

01:13:51.540 was a lot of discussion on uh lbc and elsewhere this is just the totemic example uh if he was born in

01:13:58.460 cardiff then surely he's welsh right yeah because if i'm born in a stable then surely i'm a horse i

01:14:03.820 was born in a hospital so surely i'm a doctor right like it just it's ludicrous what does make

01:14:09.040 someone welsh then well it's an ethnicity right so right any ethnicity is passed down through heredity

01:14:15.540 you inherit your ethnic identity and your ethnic being through your parents now i'm not saying this 0.91

01:14:21.780 kid isn't culturally acclimatized to being welsh i don't know we clearly isn't well i don't know

01:14:27.560 again i don't want to make any kind of say i don't think it's in welsh culture to go and stab

01:14:31.520 a bunch of school girls sure but he might have been mentally ill or something like that i i don't

01:14:35.480 know i don't know and i'm not saying either way right but um but this is the thing this is the magic

01:14:41.540 soil view right this is the well he was born in cardiff therefore he must be welsh it's like

01:14:46.120 that's not how ethnicity works i'm afraid right it's a nationality isn't it welsh is a nationality

01:14:50.800 well i don't know actually yeah but the question here is whether or not there is a different

01:14:56.060 and incompatible cultural identity with the host nation that's true yeah that's that doesn't make

01:15:00.500 him not welsh it could be like he's influenced by we don't know how he identifies himself that's the

01:15:04.840 thing because if this person has and this is a problem we have a lot of second generation immigrants 1.00

01:15:10.520 is actually they feel their identities are tied very much to their home countries even though they

01:15:15.020 themselves haven't been to these home countries they still long for whatever it is that they feel

01:15:20.240 that's been taken away from them and so i don't know did he call himself welsh it's entirely possible

01:15:25.000 that he doesn't would you say that's what it is then it's it's what how because it is it is

01:15:28.740 subjective i think what a nationality or whatever at least the personal identity so like i mean

01:15:33.400 before i'm just thinking of footballers who play for england uh who are black and maybe they had

01:15:37.440 parents from africa to me if they're pretty these are english guys no they're british they're british by

01:15:42.900 citizenship but they're not ethnically english and it doesn't mean that they're any less people

01:15:46.400 it just means it's not true that they're ethnically english that's fine and that's all right and the

01:15:50.820 thing is as well if they've been if they've been born here and they want to play for the england team

01:15:53.860 clearly in their hearts and minds it's their homeland that's the story they tell themselves

01:15:57.620 was this chap born in wales welsh by the story he told himself i think that if he goes and stabs

01:16:04.320 young girls i don't think that's a very welsh thing to do he doesn't see the welsh or the english

01:16:09.700 well that's why i asked is it a self-identified it's a mixture but this the problem with this is that it

01:16:15.580 conceals all of the complexities of identity right and it's a it's a comforting lie we tell ourselves

01:16:21.980 it's like okay well i mean i mean there are loads of islamic radicals who have been born here go on

01:16:26.800 to commit horrific attacks and they are in their hearts not of this place right and so but we say

01:16:34.080 oh we were born in luton he must have been british or must have been english so no he feels a very

01:16:39.620 strong connection to his ancestral homeland that is in some way denied when because he's been born and

01:16:46.040 raised over here and we actually don't apply the standard elsewhere we don't say that india's most

01:16:50.160 famous famous poet is rudyard kipling even though he's born and raised in india he's not an indian

01:16:54.620 and we know he's not an indian we know he's an englishman and we know the indians knew he's an

01:16:57.660 englishman because he got kicked out upon decolonization okay so there is there is a lot

01:17:03.000 underneath this that's a very long and complex conversation that simply saying well if he's born 0.52

01:17:07.900 in card if he's welsh bro completely obscures and makes you sound totally ignorant on the subject

01:17:13.700 that's the problem yeah i agree with that i i i'm not comfortable with the ethnically

01:17:17.540 what ethnically english or welsh necessarily even means and how far back we take that uh but with

01:17:22.960 regards to self-identifying as an english person as you say with kipling obviously he didn't identify

01:17:27.300 as an indian person didn't accept take on their cultural mores but but i i i don't want to be rude

01:17:33.580 whether or not you're comfortable with it doesn't change the fact that it is a reality

01:17:37.800 well how far back do i mean have you had the dna tests well okay let's let's for example um

01:17:43.240 i so i'm an englishman uh my mum's half of the family my nan's irish born in ireland

01:17:49.540 well with an irish accent moved over so i'm ethnically part irish i'm not going to call

01:17:54.060 myself an irishman but that is a composition of my ethnicity it's not necessarily a strong part

01:17:58.620 of my identity but it is real right if someone said you're an englishman you were born i understand

01:18:02.600 that is simplified it's it's too simple but i would it would it then be facing that what do you

01:18:07.020 mean he's english he's part irish but that doesn't mean that he can't also be english yes

01:18:11.860 this is this is what i mean where this is a very complex conversation but the the i mean the the

01:18:18.320 problem with the problem the one of the factors aspects of ethnicity is because it's hereditary

01:18:23.460 it grounds you in something and if your parents are both rwandan you don't have any of that heritage

01:18:28.600 this is why marrying into a tribe is so important so your children are in fact a mix of the two ethnic

01:18:35.000 groups that have a rootedness in the place in which they're raised and so they can't get away from the

01:18:40.140 fact that no you're half welsh or you're half whatever you have to be accept that that's a

01:18:44.880 part of yourself right yeah this still feels more cultural than ethnic well there's what you're

01:18:49.440 describing the thing is there's no difference right like it's i'm not saying it's racial because an

01:18:55.040 ethnicity isn't just the biological level it's the habits it's the religion it's the moral values

01:19:00.720 it's the history that led up to this point it's a whole continuum of things and we want to try and

01:19:07.300 separate certain things out for convenience in this case for example but that's just it's just

01:19:12.900 not that easy you know these are all things that are tied together and saying well he was born in

01:19:17.740 cardiff he's welsh reduces it all to this one geographic location which isn't accurate and ignores and

01:19:24.540 obscures so much that's happening but as we're we're running low on time i think we're gonna have to

01:19:29.860 move on a bit sorry we probably won't get very many comments on this one but uh there's been a lot to

01:19:34.460 cover um so uh femi oh i'm so angry go on i didn't want to give femi the time of day because

01:19:41.060 he can't be blocked no no but this is this is the perfect encapsulation of it's civilization's

01:19:47.220 collective fault that produces the criminal he says how could we let this happen how can a 17 year

01:19:52.940 old commit such horrendous acts of violence what was wrong with him can we improve safeguards to catch

01:19:57.020 warning signs of these kinds of mentalities twitter nah it's his ethnicity it's like again he was not

01:20:02.780 telling himself the cultural story the people he was living around for his fellow countrymen which 0.83

01:20:06.760 is why he felt entitled to go and stab a bunch of children and funnily enough other than his parents

01:20:11.940 and their lax parenting presumably nobody except him bears moral responsibility for this it's not my

01:20:18.320 fault as a taxpayer because i didn't pay for enough youth clubs to occupy his time that he therefore had

01:20:23.280 the mentality of stabbing a bunch of children to be fair i feel we may be jumping the gun a bit here

01:20:26.540 because like i said we only know that he is of rwandan ethnicity and that's pretty much it yes

01:20:32.320 but his indictment is the very rousseauian view of i agree i agree i agree so i'm not accepting it but i

01:20:38.640 i i would like concrete details as to why this kid did this because again the whole thing must have

01:20:43.860 required some planning you know he must have known that on a saturday because i i saw a report from one

01:20:48.540 of the people on the ground like a local saying well look if you didn't know this thing was here you

01:20:52.720 wouldn't be able to find it by just walking past it it's down an alleyway yeah yeah it's down an

01:20:56.080 alleyway in a in a church hall or something like a town hall or something you know there are there

01:21:01.120 are other things around in the same building and stuff like that so you must have had that in your

01:21:05.080 mind right a group of girls young girls are gonna be doing ballet there i'm gonna get the taxi there

01:21:10.040 with my mask on with my knife and i'm gonna go in there and you know go down the alley and find it

01:21:14.300 so he must have had a conscious plan to take action and so like you know if this was a random

01:21:20.480 stabbing in a supermarket or something you could be like okay he didn't have a plan he maybe he's

01:21:24.240 just mental or something snapped or whatever but this was something that was premeditated and

01:21:28.100 calculated in advance so until i get some information about that i don't want to make any blanket statements

01:21:32.160 they'll never tell us we'll never know they may well never tell us no they won't they'll just say

01:21:36.100 don't look back in anger yeah yeah it's really annoying and what you ever see that south park

01:21:39.240 episode where they go to they go to san francisco and start smelling their own farts yes um that's

01:21:43.880 for me yes um that is for me you can imagine writing that maybe with some nicer classical music on

01:21:49.300 nice little some candle lights smelling the farts smart yeah yeah anyway so one one thing i hate is 0.99

01:21:55.260 the uh shit lib journo class who are the the worst people in the world frankly i i genuinely hate this 0.99

01:22:04.540 kind of middle class snobbery shameful the idea that the thugs behind this call themselves patriots is 0.99

01:22:11.100 risible what they did last night is odious yeah i agree i agree they were in the wrong didn't he

01:22:16.420 defend hugh edwards quite possibly but that's irrelevant yeah uh again it's a similar thing

01:22:21.600 from tim walk here i i feel ashamed of our country on days like this yeah i'm ashamed for you as well

01:22:27.880 um but the the point that i really hate uh that comes across from this is that this becomes an excuse

01:22:34.180 to go ah finally don't worry about the kid who stabbed the children we don't have to worry about that

01:22:40.500 that's a difficult conversation i don't have to have that but what's an easy conversation 0.96

01:22:44.560 is shitting on the working class that's really easy fantastic so the the court jester of the middle 1.00

01:22:51.200 class can come out and be like oh get these you know people behind bars i hate the working class 1.00

01:22:57.380 oh look at them all bad it's like no they're unrepresented they're not being listened to and

01:23:01.420 they're frustrated they didn't do this out of nothing and they did this because people like you

01:23:06.100 occupy the discourse and don't give them the time of day because of your bigotry towards them

01:23:11.400 this is why i genuinely hate the middle class jonathan pie's really sort of gone a bit off oh

01:23:17.440 totally but he's just really embraced the proper role of the court jester of the keir starmer era well

01:23:22.960 andrew doyle stopped writing for him exactly that's why he stopped being interesting um but uh one thing

01:23:28.440 i thought was really interesting is claire fox who um went on talk tv and really actually hammered and 1.00

01:23:35.120 hit on the the main underpinning point and let's uh let's watch this i think the riot happening in

01:23:40.540 front of your very eyes i know somebody everybody knows somebody who's seen stuff being lifted from

01:23:45.880 a shop seen somebody running out of a shop seen somebody having a fight in the middle of the street

01:23:49.760 seen somebody running down people all over social media saying the name this person is and he he's

01:23:56.460 i can't remember exactly what the time stamp was but uh as you as you say that the quote is people

01:24:01.380 refuse to acknowledge that we've got a problem of islamism and that's what the people attacking 0.95

01:24:06.500 the mosque were responding to now in this particular case they were misdirected they were wrong but the

01:24:12.440 reason that they're there and the reason that this is such a live an open wound is because there is a

01:24:19.200 real problem with the clash of cultures between islamic civilization and british civilization and the 0.97

01:24:26.840 people the john soples of the world the jonathan pies of the world are not exposed to that they're

01:24:32.340 not exposed to the raw edge of what happens however the the people who are going and protesting in

01:24:38.240 uh south port rioting in south port they're the ones who are you know they're the ones who have had this

01:24:44.040 imposed upon them and so yeah do you remember 10 years or 15 years ago stacy dooley did that 0.94

01:24:51.220 documentary she did and she couldn't make that now could she no if i had made i mean she's white as well

01:24:56.480 and white women now in the hierarchy olympics are not doing too well they're almost as bad as being 1.00

01:25:01.000 a white man being a white woman nowadays she was able to do that she would never be able to do that 1.00

01:25:05.520 now so what's changed there and that was in that was in 2011 as well you can see how like stacy dooley

01:25:11.300 is the sort of person who would be normally just fall completely into sort of like you know the early

01:25:16.180 2000s love actually consensus right where it's just like yeah this is the the nice multi-culti world

01:25:21.280 we want to live in and she's watching the women in burkas calling her all sorts of things she's 1.00

01:25:25.240 oh my god what's happening it's like yeah what is happening and that was 13 years ago now right

01:25:30.360 how much worse has it got well quite a lot worse and yet we're still at the point where we're just

01:25:35.080 going to demonize the working class for being like guys this is really affecting us it's gotten so

01:25:38.800 much worse that we've actually gone past the point where you could make a documentary like that

01:25:41.820 even exposing it completely that's scary and there's not even any need to make a documentary

01:25:45.620 like that anymore everyone can see it it's just in everyone's face people deny it a lot of

01:25:49.660 people deny it's happening that is true but i i'm of the opinion that the second the nimby lib dem

01:25:56.280 voter gets the ethnic diversity running down their street with a machete they're voting bmp i think 0.84

01:26:02.020 they're going to flip instantly um too late by them well yeah it might well be too late by them but uh

01:26:07.540 i'm i'm i'm certain those people will go quite right wing um but uh right as we're running out of time

01:26:13.200 i'm just going to run through a few comments um sorry for missing a couple of these super chats

01:26:18.280 um they're almost all fed posts but they're other than other than ramshackalotta who says love andrew

01:26:23.320 and his channel great to have him on i do worry that yes while we want criminals locked up andrew's

01:26:26.980 right we don't want a police state i just think apply the law equally and as forcefully as it was

01:26:31.940 before 1997 that would have been sensible i like the andrew is right bit can we get that framed

01:26:36.040 um i'm gonna have to uh skip some of the comments just because they're not uh relevant um but jimbo

01:26:47.180 says it's shocking but unsurprising how fast that fake name spread around social media that

01:26:51.320 definitely contributed to the riots but frankly it feels like the general public are waiting to snap

01:26:54.960 these sorts of acts have been normalized throughout europe people are fed up uh yeah there does seem

01:26:59.480 to have been a tension that was underpinning just civilization and our society so we're not going

01:27:04.820 to have time for video comments i'm really sorry guys but this uh a lot's happened and uh i want

01:27:10.040 to keep specifically germane to the topic um there does seem to have been just frustration and pressure

01:27:19.200 and like a genuine wellspring of emotion that was already there that's been brought up i just say

01:27:25.640 that we don't know that it wasn't an islamist attack we don't know yeah so we we absolutely don't

01:27:30.380 know and and history and precedent shows us that there's a fairly good fairly good chance that

01:27:34.580 it is so i i i totally get wrong name this is awful should never happen but let's also not go

01:27:40.820 fully the other way and say oh so that you know there's a reason people are angry it didn't happen

01:27:45.420 in isolation no it's just imprudent to therefore make the target a mosque absolutely i think it's

01:27:51.060 much more prudent to make not of violence but of organized action the target the politicians who

01:27:56.880 have actively accelerated and enabled this to happen to certain communities and who as soon as a

01:28:02.160 criminal does this sort of thing blames on mental health or blames on floating night and does not

01:28:06.280 send them back to their country of origin yeah um chase says the uk government has unfortunately set

01:28:12.880 the precedent that rioting is a legitimate form of protest it seems to be one of the few things they

01:28:17.260 actually listen to if the black lives matter riots if the leeds riots if the manchester riots

01:28:22.740 or anything leicester with the battles between muslims and hindus as well the one thing that they

01:28:29.260 really actually respond to is a show of force which is a really silly thing to admit to everyone in this

01:28:35.160 country it's a really bloody silly thing but if if you're going to suppress the discourse and say

01:28:40.060 well you're just not allowed to talk about those things well then people will feel they have no other 0.97

01:28:44.360 recourse there's there's only one other way of dealing with things um absolutely foolish i'd wonder 0.97

01:28:49.460 all these people getting so angry that these are the worst people ever the rioters these are the 0.96

01:28:52.940 worst of the worst of the worst i'd be interested to go back and see their tweets with regards to

01:28:56.700 antifa in portland i know that's a different country of course but that kind of thing were

01:29:00.260 they as angered angered then about the worst of the worst people but it's not about hypocrisy it's

01:29:04.380 about hierarchy yeah they always just want to put their political enemies at the bottom as

01:29:09.240 deplorables etc and nothing they do is morally permissible that everything that

01:29:12.820 other communities do is always punching up and therefore justified jj w makes a good point uh the

01:29:18.240 police are enough covering up islamic crimes refuse to say anything so people jump to conclusions 0.96

01:29:22.180 quay surprise um to be fair the police forces are local and basically autonomous uh so so for example

01:29:30.660 the rotherham and rochdale police forces won't have a lot to do with the southport police force

01:29:34.200 but it's all the same uniform and it's people and they're all operating from they're all seen from

01:29:40.120 the same hymn sheet so i can understand why people uh view the police as a monolith even though

01:29:45.760 they're not just to be clear um but that is something that again it's none of this has

01:29:50.320 happened in isolation there were cover-ups this has been a consistent problem and also everyone

01:29:55.640 now knows that raiku and the unit in the home office that does controlled spontaneity events

01:30:00.300 to constantly tell you don't look back in anger and pass your moms out to the site of london bridge

01:30:03.920 and that we know we're being gaslit with our own money so are you shocked why people react in in such

01:30:08.500 a way but uh i hate said but i think we're out of time yes we are i will be back in half an hour

01:30:12.620 with thompson talks uh andrew thank you very much for being a guest uh would you like to remind

01:30:16.720 people where they can find you um heretics youtube channel get me on x as well uh i've got a book out

01:30:22.140 the psychology of secrets uh there it is uh about a lot of this authoritarianism suppression cultishness

01:30:28.820 and uh some weird strange stuff so uh that's where to find me excellent thank you very much for coming

01:30:34.220 in sir um otherwise we'll be back tomorrow at one o'clock take care and goodbye

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - July 31, 2024

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #968

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