The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters episode 985 on today Friday the 23rd

00:00:12.860 of August 2024. I am your host Connor joined by Carl and Professor Jonathan Anomaly. Great

00:00:17.800 to be here. Hi. Yeah. Do you mind giving a short introduction for our guests? Sure. I

00:00:22.240 was an American academic for about 15 years, took the kind of PPE program developed here

00:00:26.940 in Oxford, Cambridge, imported it with some changes to Duke, University of North Carolina,

00:00:32.720 Arizona, San Diego, etc. Summer of Floyd created some chaos in the American Academy. I mean,

00:00:38.520 things were already moving in that direction. But as of 2022, I quit my job at the University

00:00:43.780 of Pennsylvania, moved to Ecuador to help them establish some PPE programs and work with the

00:00:50.280 president. And I now do a little bit of that. So I run a master's program in Ecuador. And I also

00:00:56.120 part-time am also working with a company that does IVF and embryo selection for cognitive ability,

00:01:02.900 among other things. Yeah, we're going to be talking about whether or not right-wing

00:01:05.720 progressivism is the answer to low birth rates later. But if anyone wants to know more about

00:01:10.220 Jonathan's career, I recommend watching his excellent episode with our good friend Chris

00:01:13.140 Williamson that came out recently because you're a purveyor of very sensible hate facts.

00:01:18.900 That's a fair thing to say. Speaking of hate facts, today we're going to be discussing the sort of

00:01:23.300 people that the government want to lock up and the people that they aren't, the recent epidemics

00:01:27.720 of stabbings in Britain and who's behind them, and whether or not liberalism can last falling

00:01:32.680 birth rates. That'll be an interesting discussion. But before we jump into today's news, as you know,

00:01:37.520 it's Friday, and so that means lads hour. And that at three o'clock will be Carl taking us through

00:01:44.260 a bunch of women discovering what modesty means.

00:01:46.680 Well, Aaron McIntyre had a great tweet where it was just, you know, every now and again

00:01:52.060 the left will discover timeless wisdom and act like they've discovered Atlantis, like they'll

00:01:57.880 reinvent traditionalism. And this is just one of those times. And it's quite funny watching

00:02:03.480 the women themselves. And again, it's like progressive women have had no education from

00:02:07.700 previous generations of women, which is remarkable. And so they're just like, well, do I get less

00:02:12.900 attention from men? Unwanted attention from men? If I don't have my boobs out all the time,

00:02:17.160 it's like, yeah, incredible. It's quite funny to me. So that's why I thought we'd do a fill

00:02:20.800 ads out.

00:02:21.360 So Carl's going to be everyone's grandmother. So if you haven't subscribed to the paywall

00:02:25.120 yet, there's still time to do so. Without further ado, well, it's not escaped many people's

00:02:31.620 attention in the UK that there seems to be a two-tier justice system operating if you were

00:02:35.840 participating in the anti-immigration riots following the atrocity of three girls being murdered

00:02:40.640 and more stabbed in Southport. The police seem very eager to expedite your trial and crack

00:02:46.820 down on you for everything from looting a Lushera Greggs, which is obviously very not sensible

00:02:53.280 and we don't endorse that, to putting up some spicy social media posts, which, let's be realistic,

00:03:01.300 didn't have any prospect of actually being acted upon. And that starkly contrasts to the kind of

00:03:06.580 people that they're either not admitting to prison or they're letting out of prison. So we're just

00:03:11.440 going to compare those today. And I wanted to start off with this video from the Merseyside

00:03:15.400 police. I think we'll play it. The audio is not exactly inviting, but it's worth showing as an

00:03:21.200 example of who the police are going after. They say, if you took part in the violent disorder,

00:03:37.400 be prepared. We're coming for you no matter where you are. Just this violent disorder, not a lot of

00:03:43.280 other violent disorders. We'll see soon. But I found the caption interesting because it says,

00:03:47.120 Thomas Whitehead, 53, of Pool Street, Southport, jailed for 20 months yesterday.

00:03:52.280 Why are they doxing his address? Good question.

00:03:56.720 Is this meant to send some sort of message to presumably the political opponents of Keir Starmer

00:04:02.700 to not engage in this, whereas other groups are given carte blanche to conduct violent vigilante

00:04:09.380 activity? And it seems the Home Office are insisting on categorising all of their political opponents

00:04:14.980 as criminals before they've had a trial, because this tweet went out. And it says,

00:04:20.460 more than a thousand arrests related to recent public disorder. The caption is,

00:04:25.040 these criminals will face the full force of the law. Now, if anyone can spot a problem in this tweet...

00:04:31.420 Normally, we establish whether someone's a criminal or not after the trial.

00:04:35.720 Exactly.

00:04:36.580 Yeah, the presumption of innocence seems to have been abolished if you are an anti-immigration

00:04:41.100 protester. But for lots of other crimes, you seem to get away with it. Now, it's been raised by

00:04:47.320 Lee Anderson, MP of Reform UK here. He's written to Home Secretary Yvette Cooper, saying that she

00:04:53.860 might have actually committed contempt of court here. Because you can't prejudge everyone that's

00:05:00.700 been arrested as a criminal before they've had their hearing.

00:05:03.300 So, for people not from this country, you may not be aware that the Labour Party is not usually

00:05:10.480 considered to be full of our best and brightest. And I've got a thesis that if we were to sit them

00:05:16.300 all down and make them do IQ tests, the average would come out about 90. And I really mean this

00:05:21.220 from long years of watching these people in public life and public office. I think this is a sterling

00:05:26.180 example of that. These people are morons, and they don't understand the system that they're in charge of.

00:05:31.580 Keir Stormer does demonstrate sheer inflexibility anytime he's challenged.

00:05:35.480 I do think there's something deeper going on here, too, which is related to

00:05:39.220 Nima Parvini's, you know, boomer truth regime. There's something, there's a framework now in

00:05:45.580 place in the entire Anglosphere. We often export it from the US. I think it probably came from here

00:05:50.800 to us, and then we amplify it via Hollywood and the university system. And that is that anti-racism

00:05:56.540 is the fundamental virtue of all Western societies at this point. So identifying a racist or someone

00:06:02.540 who appears to be a racist, someone who's in some way intolerant of some group somewhere is the

00:06:08.060 greatest evil that you can commit. And so what's really going on here is this is not about the law

00:06:12.600 per se. This is about using the force of the state, identifying the evildoers, and getting people

00:06:19.820 to hate them. You know, this is the kind of two minutes of hate directed at the evildoers.

00:06:24.820 Yeah. And even worse, it's not just, if it was just two minutes of hate, okay, that's terrible.

00:06:29.320 But it's the force of the state. But you are absolutely on the money there. Because one thing

00:06:34.040 that the sort of left-wing intelligentsia in this country complained about was, well,

00:06:39.380 Keir Stormer isn't labeling them racist fast enough. He did label them all as racist, obviously.

00:06:44.160 But he didn't do it quickly enough, even though he called them far right on the day it was happening.

00:06:48.580 And so you've got all of these headlines now. I know you're going to talk about some of them when

00:06:52.400 pedophiles being released potentially, or robbers being released from prison. But the worst thing

00:06:58.320 that you can do is to have incorrect thoughts, to think that some groups are different than others,

00:07:03.080 that some are better than others. Whether you act on those thoughts or not is less relevant

00:07:07.140 in those thoughts.

00:07:08.120 I mean, that implies some sort of ideological framework. This isn't even that far. Because

00:07:13.560 these people are just expressing their own preferences. Like, we would prefer it if Britain

00:07:19.180 remained majority British. You know, they're just... Because we've been subject to unbelievable

00:07:24.040 amounts of mass immigration in the past 25 years. And this is a response to it. They don't

00:07:28.020 have, like, a strong ideological framework where they've thought all of this through.

00:07:31.500 They're just reacting from an emotional position.

00:07:34.560 I don't even think they're expressing that desire. And I would agree with that desire. I'm

00:07:39.900 not counter-signalling. I think at the basest level, they're expressing,

00:07:42.860 this is a foreign criminal. He didn't need to be here. Girls have been killed and injured

00:07:47.240 because of it. So stop bringing them here in the first place. And as Renaud Camus would

00:07:52.380 say, anti-racism being the modus operandi of every nation post-Second World War, they

00:07:57.720 have to buy into the blank slate to prove to themselves that they're not going to mutate

00:08:02.520 into the mid-century Germans. And so they blame the native population complaining about

00:08:07.100 the problem for the reason that the newcomers are committing the crimes. Because if the native

00:08:10.660 population didn't assert their cultural and demographic preferences, then the newcomers

00:08:15.680 would just be showered in British values and assimilate into the melting pot. It's actually

00:08:19.600 you waving your union jack that causes second-generation migrants to go and stab a potato swift dance

00:08:24.520 class. That's the opinion of these people.

00:08:26.500 I think that's right. And what you said earlier, you know, this is about emotions. It's not an

00:08:31.200 overall theory that they have or it's expressing a certain desire. And I think that's right.

00:08:35.760 One theory of politics, sort of academic theory, is the expressive theory of politics, especially

00:08:40.780 in democracy. So everyone knows their individual vote doesn't matter very much. It's not going

00:08:45.640 to make a big difference. Why do people go to the polls at all is the real puzzle. And my

00:08:50.700 old friend Jeffrey Brennan, who is an Australian economist, had this view of expressivism. Why do

00:08:56.380 people do this? What gets them riled up politically? And it's basically they're not trying to achieve

00:09:01.000 goals in an efficient way. They're not doing cost benefit calculuses. You know, who deserves to be

00:09:05.560 in prison? Who, if we lock up, will reduce crime rates? It's rather, what does this stand for?

00:09:10.680 And again, going back to this fundamental post-World War II value, we're standing against

00:09:15.880 intolerance. This is what this is all about. Whoever is, you know, put in prison as a side

00:09:20.440 effect, that sort of thing, this is just a casualty in this war against intolerance.

00:09:24.920 This does have that kind of inquisitorial aspect to it. I think you're exactly

00:09:28.760 right. They've decided you are evil. You are pro-racism. You are evil. We are good.

00:09:34.840 We are anti-racism. And therefore we have, I mean, we know you're criminals because you

00:09:38.700 were on the streets protesting about this. We're just going to, you know, find me the

00:09:42.680 man and I'll find you the crime position at this point.

00:09:45.160 We may have also found a crime committed by Yvette Cooper here. I spoke to Toby Young yesterday

00:09:50.480 of the Free Speech Union. He's got lots of sign-ups recently because if you put hate

00:09:55.940 facts on social media, the government will come for you. And he said, ironically, they

00:09:59.500 might have committed an offence under the online safety bill.

00:10:02.480 Oh, really?

00:10:02.900 Because given their lawyers, given their home office officials, they should have known

00:10:08.620 the distinction between criminal suspect and convicted. And therefore, if they've knowingly

00:10:14.540 posted false information online, it's led to real-world harms, like a chilling effect

00:10:18.580 on the kinds of people that may have pleaded not guilty rather than guilty, thinking they

00:10:25.080 wouldn't get the presumption of innocence anymore. So they could actually be prosecuted.

00:10:28.480 Also, is it not in some way sort of libelous? If the state is calling us a bunch of criminals,

00:10:33.720 but I've pled not guilty and I was found innocent. Well, you've called me a criminal. I'm not

00:10:37.520 a criminal.

00:10:38.420 That would require the individual person's libel to seek a claim in the civil court.

00:10:43.740 Yeah, I know, but they could do that, surely.

00:10:45.100 They could do this. It's actually far more effective to go after than the criminal court, because

00:10:48.040 this is a law they all passed.

00:10:49.320 Do it all. Do it both. If they're calling you a criminal and you got let off, go and

00:10:52.820 sue them.

00:10:53.200 Yeah, it would be useful, but it really does bolster, yeah, these people are all thick.

00:10:56.880 They're thick and they're evil. It's not just incompetence or malice, it's both.

00:11:00.540 Now, brilliant. Some will get far more lenient treatment, of course. I don't think the Home

00:11:04.140 Office are probably going to be held to account on this. The people that were at the protests,

00:11:07.920 even if they didn't do anything wrong, will be persecuted for this. Some people get more lenient

00:11:11.580 treatment, as Neil O'Brien MP has found out in a recent post on his substack. We won't be

00:11:15.640 subscribing right now, but I reckon you do. So he broke down some data, as he's wont to

00:11:20.620 do, from the Ministry of Justice, published but buried in 2019, and he found that roughly

00:11:26.260 half of all crimes in Britain are committed by 10% of offenders. 4% of all crimes are committed

00:11:31.280 by 0.2% of all offenders. And since 2007, there have been 50,000 occasions where people

00:11:38.480 have been spared prison time despite having 50 previous convictions. 4,000 occasions where

00:11:43.700 people had 100 previous convictions were spared prison time, and 315,000 occasions where people

00:11:49.320 were spared prison despite 25 convictions. And that's bumped up to 382,000 if you count

00:11:54.080 cautions.

00:11:54.840 Can't help but feel that after a dozen convictions, you've got to be the sort of person who feels

00:11:59.240 the law doesn't really apply to them, right?

00:12:01.040 Yeah, there is a certain category of young, violent, low-impulse control male that you only

00:12:06.100 stop committing crimes by putting them in a box for a while.

00:12:08.380 Yeah, that's exactly right. And when you look at crime, it is partly heritable. And

00:12:12.900 criminologists have known this for a long time. I have friends, Kevin Beaver, for example,

00:12:16.820 Brian Boutwell, biosocial criminologists, and they study the heritability of these traits.

00:12:21.540 Self-control is heritable. Psychopathy is highly heritable. And when you look at psychopaths,

00:12:26.360 they're 1% of the population approximately. But there's something like 25 to 30% of the population

00:12:32.080 in federal prisons in the United States. I assume it's similar here. And they're the kind

00:12:36.940 of people who simply can't be deterred with moral proclamations or even long-term sentences. What

00:12:43.320 they need to be deterred by is, you know, in the short run, there's going to be the immediate penalty

00:12:47.820 if you violate this rule. And if we don't face up to this, we're not facing up to most of the

00:12:52.540 criminals. You don't even need to talk about group differences here. Just talk about individual

00:12:56.060 differences. These things are highly heritable.

00:12:58.560 If they're all so solipsistic, they can't be reasoned with. You have to set the risk of their

00:13:02.940 personal safety so high that they don't take the trade-off. And then there's also the

00:13:06.600 heritability of schizophrenia. I mean, it's a hair trigger. It can be onset by drug use

00:13:11.580 or abuse. But different groups have different levels of heritability. And this is according

00:13:16.160 to far-right conspiracy theory website, the NHS. They found that most white Britons, white

00:13:22.020 British males, have a 0.3% diagnosis of schizophrenia. Black men in Britain have a 3% diagnosis of

00:13:29.080 schizophrenia. So any time that, you know, mental health is blamed for Valdo Calacane stabbing

00:13:33.720 three people, it's like, yes, is there a predisposition there we can talk about? Or is

00:13:38.800 that another hate fact?

00:13:39.640 I think it's also worth talking about the kind of, I don't know, mood or attitude of

00:13:43.740 the person as well. Because it's all in good saying, well, listen, you know, in a rational

00:13:48.000 calculation, if you go and do something terrible, then you're going to get arrested, you might

00:13:51.920 get shot or killed or hurt or something like that. And it's like, yeah, that's all well and

00:13:55.440 good. But when someone's blood is up and they're, for some reason, in a rage, running

00:13:59.320 around doing something crazy, I mean, you see videos that come out of the United States

00:14:02.520 all the time of someone doing something crazy, but the other person has a gun and yet they're

00:14:06.060 doing the crazy thing anyway. And so they get shot. So it's not even the worry about their

00:14:10.380 own personal safety that is the issue at this point. It's that people are difficult to manage.

00:14:17.360 Some people have psychotic spells, as you said, and they need to build our society around

00:14:21.180 that and deal with it. I'm really reluctant to medicalize these things, right? Because

00:14:26.240 that puts us on the sort of rails towards the therapeutic state. Oh, well, if we can

00:14:30.540 just make them understand, if we can just bring them in line with the rest of it. It's like,

00:14:34.660 no, no, no. If someone's like that, I actually don't want them in my society. And actually,

00:14:38.840 I don't really want to be around them. I don't want you to therapeutize them into being able

00:14:42.060 to live next door to me, you know? No, but it is worth recognizing that some of these

00:14:45.960 traits are there for life. Psychopathy can't be cured and the best medicine for them,

00:14:49.920 maybe we shouldn't torture them. We shouldn't have a retributive theory where we're trying

00:14:54.480 to get back to them, but we should separate them from society. I mean, if they're doing

00:14:58.160 these things repeatedly, and we know they do, they have like 80, 90% recidivism rates,

00:15:02.900 probably should keep them locked up. Now that would be sensible, gents, but have you considered

00:15:06.100 that the prisons are really full because we keep importing foreign criminals and we need

00:15:10.200 to lock up these protesters and people posting on Facebook. So instead, the magistrates have been

00:15:14.960 told to stop jailing violent offenders in order to ease pressure on the prisons.

00:15:20.840 I mean, this is just mad, isn't it? You may as well just put a sign up that says you were

00:15:25.480 allowed to commit crimes now. Britain is becoming Arkham Asylum.

00:15:27.960 Yeah. Also, you are allowed to commit crimes because Douglas Murray dug into the statistics.

00:15:32.060 Do you know there's multiple police districts that haven't solved a single burglary in the

00:15:36.500 last few years? I'm not surprised. Obviously, we are not saying commit crimes.

00:15:39.920 No.

00:15:40.160 Not allowed to commit crimes. However, the British government has a different opinion on that.

00:15:43.680 Yeah. We don't want you to commit crimes. The British police seem to care more about

00:15:49.020 offensive statements online than actual house break-ins.

00:15:52.180 Incentives matter. It's pretty simple. So we had in California, my home state where I grew up,

00:15:57.120 you know, this law in place for many years where if you steal below $1,000, you essentially

00:16:02.980 couldn't be prosecuted. There were also laws that protected criminals so that you couldn't

00:16:06.940 call the police on them if you suspected that they were in some unfortunate circumstance,

00:16:11.740 you know, drug addict, whatever it is. And we saw crime just skyrocket. You guys have seen these

00:16:16.040 roving gangs in California that go to, you know, Apple stores and just steal a bunch of stuff.

00:16:21.100 All of this is incentives. And in fact, even leftists in California and San Francisco have now

00:16:26.300 revoked the prosecutor who is responsible for passing some of these things. So even they have a

00:16:31.760 limit to the appetite that they have for, for criminality, for tolerating it.

00:16:36.040 How dare they crack down on these desperate people just stealing bread. Um, a couple of-

00:16:39.560 From iPhone stores here.

00:16:40.560 Yeah, quite. A couple, a couple of details just from this article to flesh it out.

00:16:44.060 So one of the country's senior judges issued a listing direction to the managers of magistrates

00:16:48.020 courts in England and Wales. This isn't legally binding, but it is top-down advice. Saying

00:16:53.300 offenders who are on bail and likely to be jailed should have their sentencing hearings

00:16:57.180 postponed until at least September the 10th. The order could affect some of those who have

00:17:01.100 already pleaded guilty to offences during the recent spate of rioting, as well as others

00:17:05.040 facing sentences for crimes, including assaults. So not only are violent criminals not going

00:17:09.260 to be imprisoned, but those awaiting sentences for the rioting are going to be encouraged to

00:17:14.840 plead guilty, to hurry up and get their sentence over with, thinking they're going to get a

00:17:19.180 shorter sentence, and they're not going to be held on remand in prison awaiting a

00:17:22.520 judgment. So this is going to, again, encourage more people who might otherwise be innocent

00:17:26.920 to plead guilty and get sentences they do not deserve. From September the 10th, the government

00:17:31.500 will implement its emergency release scheme as well, which is forecaster-free, on a single

00:17:36.280 day here, 2,000 prisoners. On one day. Just dump them out into the population. And another

00:17:43.840 1,700 by October the 22nd. According to ministers, in the longer term, the scheme will free up

00:17:49.900 5,500 prison places. They need all that because over 1,000 people have been arrested and about

00:17:55.380 470 now have been charged for social media posts.

00:17:58.880 The good news about this is maybe there will be less violence in prison because all of those

00:18:03.400 drug dealers and robbers will be replaced by grannies who are posting on Facebook.

00:18:08.300 Well, did you see the Sky News crime correspondent who went on and said, I have got it on high

00:18:14.580 authority from someone in the prisons that there will be quote-unquote Asian Muslim gangs,

00:18:19.440 which now make up a fifth of the whole prison population in the UK, who will be waiting to

00:18:23.240 give these rioters a warm welcome.

00:18:25.080 Ah, of course.

00:18:25.980 So they're just wishing death on their political opponents.

00:18:28.460 And they know this is happening.

00:18:29.660 Because this is just a mad thing.

00:18:30.880 Look, isn't this exactly what the Soviets did? Emptied the jails of actual criminals

00:18:36.200 and then locked up all of the political prisoners?

00:18:39.340 Yes, because the premise was that capitalism drove the people under the prior paradigm to

00:18:43.280 be criminals, very Rousseauian of them. And actually the regime dissidents were the ones

00:18:46.800 stopping the utopia being constructed, so they need to be thrown in prison.

00:18:49.160 And of course, this also happened in Cuba in the 1980s and in Venezuela just last year.

00:18:54.420 And of course, we, that is people from the United States, get to receive these criminals

00:18:58.640 on boats. So they'll empty the prisons and send them on over. It's fantastic.

00:19:02.580 The Biden administration's been doing exactly that with the January 6th defendants. So

00:19:06.000 again, you guys have got a taste of it before we even did. Now, some of these offenders will

00:19:10.000 include this chap, Lawson Natty. There should be a photo of him in here somewhere. This

00:19:15.560 benefits of diversity. He was sentenced to two years and eight months for manslaughter and

00:19:20.640 unlawful wounding because he killed this kid.

00:19:23.100 Only two years for killing someone. He had a machete, didn't he?

00:19:26.440 Yes, he did. How did you guess that?

00:19:28.640 Yeah, how did I know?

00:19:29.660 So Gordon Galt, who's this 14-year-old boy, died in hospital six days after being attacked

00:19:34.140 with a blade in Elswick, Newcastle in November 2022. The other guy still remains in prison

00:19:38.660 for murder. I think he got something like nine years. Galt's mother, Dion Barrett, went

00:19:44.720 on GB News.

00:19:45.660 How did he get manslaughter? You hacked someone up with a machete.

00:19:48.860 Because he just provided the machete.

00:19:51.680 Oh, I didn't mean to kill him.

00:19:52.900 He was going to cut down the dense underbrush in Newcastle.

00:19:56.640 God, I hate this country. Again, the death penalty should never have been gotten rid

00:20:02.360 of. Anyway, so this is a Labour MP on the left. Her name is Chi Onwura, and she's the

00:20:07.860 Labour MP for Newcastle on Tyne. She's told GB News that she's actually going to be looking

00:20:11.620 into this. In her letter, she obviously blames the Tories and says that, well, actually,

00:20:16.720 don't worry, there's been misinformation online because this Lawson Natty chap served longer

00:20:20.860 than six months of sentence. So that's all fine. But she's saying, I raised the case

00:20:25.440 for the Ministry of Justice two weeks ago based on press reports of Natty's release, and I've

00:20:28.760 been trying to contact Barrett to see how I can support her further. Still, loads of criminals,

00:20:35.820 violent criminals, are going to be let out. So even if this one guy gets blocked, still

00:20:39.720 thousands more. Looking forward to that. Also, what about the people that haven't been let

00:20:44.480 in prison? A child rapist, Rhys Newman, 33, handed a suspended sentence last December

00:20:49.820 for raping a girl under the age of 14 all the way back in 2005. Under terms of his sentence,

00:20:55.320 he was ordered to sign the sex offenders register and notify police if he went on holiday. In

00:20:59.500 May, he jetted off to Egypt without telling officers, so he was taken back to court. Judge

00:21:04.280 Tracey Lloyd-Clark, recorder of Cardiff, jailed Newman for two months but suspended his imprisonment

00:21:08.960 for 18 months, and she said, quote,

00:21:10.980 You know what? I know this is going to come across as deeply heartless, right? I don't

00:21:26.740 care if the prisons are overcrowded. I actually am really not sympathetic to the prisoners who

00:21:31.980 may have to share a cell with two or three other people. You can sleep standing up. Yeah,

00:21:36.200 I don't care. With the caveat that the laws are actually tracking some sense of justice,

00:21:40.960 justice. As soon as the laws become corrupt or they're interpreted in a corrupt way, then

00:21:45.040 we should care. Prior to this current paradigm. Yeah, Facebook grannies shouldn't go to prison.

00:21:51.800 Yeah. This guy should, basically. Yeah, the criminals in prison, well, they're not comfortable.

00:21:56.760 Oh, dear. Yeah. You know, that's the point. Maybe don't machete other children. Or sexually

00:22:02.880 assault them. Or rape children. That would be a sensible idea. It turns out there's lots more

00:22:07.560 of these freaks where that came from. Talk, Alex Phillips, who's doing absolutely fantastic

00:22:11.700 work. She has found at least ten, ten convicted sex offenders, child sex offenders, who have

00:22:17.980 been spared prison. I'm going to play a little interview she's done with a barrister here

00:22:21.620 who gives some insight into one of the cases and as to why they haven't been imprisoned.

00:22:25.640 They found ten who have been spared prison to make space for the rioters. It's worth listening

00:22:30.680 to this. Justifications as to why it's needed. And I thought, oh, this does seem really weird.

00:22:35.960 So I asked on social media, I said, can any criminal lawyer help me as to what's going

00:22:39.900 on? Because this seems odd. And crickets. I didn't get a single response. So I did a bit

00:22:44.880 of Googling and I think I found the answer. At the end of last year, there was a particularly

00:22:49.940 nasty case of somebody who for 13 years had been accessing a Dropbox folder full of the most

00:22:56.060 vile images, including category A images. And he was given a 20-month sentence that was

00:23:01.520 suspended for two years. And the National Crime Agency actually said, this is wrong. We don't

00:23:08.740 feel good about this. They worked out that 80% of men convicted for possession of indecent

00:23:15.460 images were not going to prison. But I think they provided the answer because their director

00:23:20.300 of operations said, look, there are between 680,000 and 800,000 of these men in the country.

00:23:27.880 We know the prison system was at capacity around July, I think about 97,000 places. So the NCA

00:23:36.260 said quite rightly, whatever you think about these men, they're not going to prison because

00:23:41.540 we do not have the room for them. So I think what we need rather urgently is a discussion about

00:23:47.200 precisely what message we're meant to be sending. Because we could see with the writers, the message

00:23:51.900 was very clearly, you are disgraceful, you are disgusting, we will not tolerate this for

00:23:56.820 a moment. So you will go to prison and to make room for you, we will release about 5,000 prisoners,

00:24:03.260 who I assume may have included some of those 20% of men who are actually convicted. So I do think

00:24:09.540 if the National Crime Agency is worried enough to raise this as an issue at the end of last year,

00:24:14.960 I don't think the people doing it can just be dismissed, as I'm afraid a lot of them are.

00:24:21.660 I will release as many child molesters as it takes to get every single one of you rioters

00:24:26.520 in prison, says Keir Starmer.

00:24:27.680 It's the Mr. Waternoose position.

00:24:28.940 It really is.

00:24:29.620 I will kidnap 1,000 children before I let this company die.

00:24:32.100 Yeah.

00:24:33.420 I mean, I just...

00:24:34.660 So let me get this straight. In response to English girls being stabbed by a second-generation

00:24:41.260 migrant, Keir Starmer decides to free child rapists to imprison grannies who complain about

00:24:48.200 it on Facebook.

00:24:49.360 Is it this zero-sum in this country that you can't just build a new place to put people...

00:24:54.020 Remember...

00:24:54.440 Not that you should be putting Facebook posters in jail, but if there's a shortage...

00:24:58.340 12,000 foreign criminals in this country, right? We are number one in Western Europe,

00:25:01.640 number two in all of Europe for crimes committed by foreign actors in this country. We could send

00:25:05.760 them all home tomorrow. The decision has been made not to.

00:25:10.840 Remember, our government is literally dumb. So I'm absolutely convinced that 90 is a generous

00:25:17.180 estimate.

00:25:17.800 And you don't have an Australia anymore where you can just sort of ship people.

00:25:21.020 Well, you know, we used to do that with America. We deported criminals to America and then

00:25:25.100 there was something happened. So we had to use Australia instead.

00:25:28.700 One last one. Do you remember the Manchester airport scrap?

00:25:32.120 The two Muslim lads who were on CCTV beating up police officers and the police officers

00:25:36.160 have been investigated. They still haven't been charged. Another one happened.

00:25:39.400 There have been three now arrested.

00:25:40.940 Again?

00:25:41.200 Two women and a man fighting over a car parking space.

00:25:43.920 Right.

00:25:44.460 As you do.

00:25:45.240 Not charged.

00:25:48.600 So!

00:25:49.380 I don't mean to laugh, but it's just so preposterous.

00:25:51.780 I look forward to...

00:25:52.780 So preposterous.

00:25:53.480 I look forward to seeing the identities of this man and women.

00:25:57.480 And I'm sure the full force of the law will be brought down on them as it is for

00:26:01.660 grandmas posting on Facebook, but not, it turns out, for child sex offenders.

00:26:06.660 With that, Rumble Rants.

00:26:08.640 Yeah.

00:26:09.600 Keith says,

00:26:10.560 One thing that really riles me up is how scientific progress is censored by

00:26:14.780 progressivism if the outcome of tests and theory doesn't fit their narratives.

00:26:18.500 You must have a lot to say about that.

00:26:20.180 I guess we'll say a bit more later, but...

00:26:22.640 You'll be right, yeah.

00:26:23.240 Dog Breath says,

00:26:24.500 I stand by my assertion that Starmer is sending the anti-migrants to jail in order

00:26:28.380 that may be permanently eliminated by the Mohammedan prison gangs.

00:26:32.000 Honestly, we're going to do a hangout talking about this next week, because we've got a

00:26:35.420 lot on this.

00:26:36.220 And Hewitt says,

00:26:36.880 Schizophrenia in black males is probably much higher than 3%.

00:26:39.720 Over the last few decades, it's become a controversial diagnosis in that demographic

00:26:43.680 for the usual reasons.

00:26:45.000 Well, there is the discrepancy in interactions with the healthcare system that is brought up,

00:26:49.620 and that's blamed on systemic racism rather than certain communities being more inclined

00:26:54.580 to go and talk about that thing than others.

00:26:58.560 So, it shouldn't come as a surprise that all of the things that you've just been talking

00:27:02.600 about are turning Britain into an absolute charnel house.

00:27:05.420 Every day, there are multiple stabbings, and have been for the last couple of weeks now.

00:27:09.920 Things seem to be getting worse, and honestly, I dread logging into Twitter, which is obviously

00:27:14.920 where I find everything like everyone else, to see who's been stabbed today.

00:27:19.160 And it's always awful.

00:27:20.540 It's always genuinely awful.

00:27:21.940 And so, what I did is I went and had a look at the latest knife crime statistics we have,

00:27:26.260 which are for last year.

00:27:27.540 And as you can see, this maps on to ethnic differences.

00:27:35.160 This is a map of the 2021 census based on ethnic group.

00:27:39.440 The darker the blue, the more native British it is.

00:27:43.040 And when you get into sort of the green, that's the very much minority, where it's about 15%,

00:27:48.520 ethnically, natively British.

00:27:50.820 So, I'm seeing a lot around London and Birmingham, and if I flip back to the knife...

00:27:53.900 Ah.

00:27:54.700 Yeah.

00:27:55.280 So, it's very similar.

00:27:56.400 However, this does correlate, obviously.

00:27:59.880 But the thing is, when you actually drill into the statistics, it's not as simple as saying,

00:28:06.380 well, a bunch of foreigners have come here to stab us.

00:28:08.460 It's not that simple.

00:28:09.940 So, I thought we'd go through some of the recent stabbings, just to see what I'm talking about.

00:28:14.480 It is worth saying that every single time a foreign national does stab someone, that is

00:28:20.280 an optional crime that has been inflicted on the people by government policy.

00:28:24.080 Yeah, and when they aren't hanged, that's an optional opportunity for recidivism as well.

00:28:29.720 Yes.

00:28:30.140 Which drives me mental.

00:28:31.840 But, and, so, I thought we'd just talk about some of the just atrocious things that are

00:28:35.520 happening, right?

00:28:36.600 Genuinely atrocious.

00:28:38.060 Now, I'm a father, I've got four kids.

00:28:41.120 Oldest is 14, then nine and three, then nearly two, or four and two.

00:28:45.340 And this is genuinely my worst fear, right?

00:28:48.800 My worst fear is that this mum here, 15-year-old in Southampton, I think it was, yeah, Southampton

00:28:56.960 Railway Station, got stabbed by another teenager.

00:29:00.520 One of the boys plunged a 12-inch zombie knife into my son's head, because it's the zombie

00:29:04.800 knife that's important here.

00:29:06.320 We live nearby, so he ran home.

00:29:09.140 I've never seen so much blood in my life.

00:29:11.720 He came in and was like, mum, help me, I'm dying.

00:29:14.540 Now, this kid actually has survived at the time of recording.

00:29:17.800 I don't know if anything happens later.

00:29:20.300 But he was stabbed just under the jaw, or into his jaw.

00:29:23.320 Right, near his jugular.

00:29:24.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:29:25.020 If it was an inch higher, he'd be dead, basically.

00:29:28.240 Are there moves here to try to ban certain kinds of knives as they've banned?

00:29:32.280 Of course.

00:29:33.040 Well, they've already been banned, actually.

00:29:34.560 Yeah, because there's a massive epidemic of Sikh stabbings and Boy Scout stabbings, because

00:29:39.600 it's the knives that do this.

00:29:41.020 They just appear.

00:29:41.780 Specifically Sikhs.

00:29:42.940 Yeah, they just appear like the dagger appears before Macbeth and held them to do it.

00:29:47.800 Well, you know, the bleeding self excites the violence, doesn't it?

00:29:50.420 I mean, maybe this is obvious, but in the United States, you probably know this, there's very

00:29:54.440 little correlation between, say, gun ownership and actual crime.

00:29:57.680 So, the highest rates of gun ownership are essentially...

00:30:00.300 In the reddest areas, which have the lowest crimes.

00:30:02.560 They're essentially the Scandinavians in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and not specifically the

00:30:08.500 cities, so it's a very specific demographic, heavily armed, and extraordinarily low violent

00:30:14.520 crime rates, right?

00:30:15.380 They keep their doors open at night and so on.

00:30:17.460 So, just to get a sense that it's not the weapons doing this.

00:30:21.080 But I want to make it clear, it's not just an ethnic problem.

00:30:24.200 No, definitely not.

00:30:25.060 It's very...

00:30:26.260 I mean, we don't know who did the stabbing of this, but Southampton is not a particularly

00:30:31.260 diverse area yet.

00:30:32.500 It's getting more diverse, but who knows?

00:30:35.560 But this is...

00:30:36.260 I just want to show people the normalcy of the stabbings, right?

00:30:39.980 This kid at a train station runs home, mum, whoring with blood, right?

00:30:43.960 This Chessington World of Adventures, this is the sort of place I take my kids during the

00:30:48.580 summer holidays.

00:30:49.760 Two men got stabbed in the car park for this.

00:30:51.960 It was the middle of the day, 2.35pm in the afternoon.

00:30:55.800 One man was taken to hospital with major stab wounds.

00:30:59.340 Another one was found with minor injuries.

00:31:01.520 It's believed that three men involved in the incident knew each other.

00:31:04.640 So, again, the previous one, the kid probably knew who stabbed him.

00:31:08.940 And this one probably knew who stabbed him, right?

00:31:11.620 There was a woman killed last Sunday.

00:31:14.840 Alberta Obimnin died at Barnard Road in Gorton.

00:31:21.960 A 17-year-old and a 64-year-old man were also taken to hospital for treatment.

00:31:25.300 A man was arrested with mental health problems.

00:31:27.800 Oh, yeah.

00:31:28.380 They said he was known to the family.

00:31:30.300 Yeah, he probably was related or something like that.

00:31:33.260 He probably was an ethnic minority.

00:31:35.620 But he was detained under the Mental Health Act.

00:31:39.600 A 22-year-old suspect.

00:31:40.940 And as the police said, were known to another.

00:31:43.200 So, probably stabbing aside an ethnic community.

00:31:45.900 But there are lots of examples of this that are not in these ethnic communities.

00:31:51.080 Which is very difficult for people on the right to talk about.

00:31:53.420 Because we've got this kind of, I don't want to say cope.

00:31:58.360 But it feels like it's a bit of a cope.

00:32:00.240 Where it's like, well, it's the foreigners doing all the stabbings.

00:32:02.040 Therefore, if we just got rid of the foreigners, the stabbings would end.

00:32:04.400 It's not all.

00:32:05.340 But I do think, again, it's worth...

00:32:07.200 It's not even most.

00:32:07.440 It's worth...

00:32:08.440 I've got the stats.

00:32:09.240 Per capita.

00:32:10.100 But it's worth carving out that all of those people being here is optional.

00:32:14.420 So, that is a problem we can do.

00:32:15.540 I agree.

00:32:16.260 But the thing is, the fact that actually a lot of youths are native English and Welsh and whatnot.

00:32:22.800 Also doing this is something we have to deal with.

00:32:25.680 This is a problem we don't have a choice about.

00:32:27.820 The goal of getting crime to zero is never going to be achieved anyway.

00:32:31.360 So, we have to take some violence as part of the background noise of the human condition and so on.

00:32:35.760 And all you can do is tinker at the margins with laws, with social norms.

00:32:39.520 When social norms break down, though, violence does tend to go up.

00:32:42.900 So, there are things that you can play with there.

00:32:44.940 Not just in terms of law, but in terms of fostering communities that have high social trust and so on.

00:32:50.480 But it's the kind of violence that's happening that is new to English life.

00:32:54.680 And this is just shocking.

00:32:56.900 I mean, this was from...

00:32:59.420 What was the date on this?

00:33:00.700 Literally the other day.

00:33:02.600 Just the second of August.

00:33:03.540 Just last week.

00:33:04.480 That was yesterday.

00:33:07.380 Oh, was it?

00:33:08.040 Yesterday.

00:33:08.640 Oh, yeah.

00:33:09.100 Christ.

00:33:09.580 Okay.

00:33:10.320 This is the thing, right?

00:33:11.540 These things happen so often that they just kind of blur into...

00:33:15.240 Okay, it's just stabbings are the background radiation of British political life at the moment, British social life.

00:33:20.740 So, I think this was published yesterday, but this didn't happen yesterday.

00:33:25.720 It was January 27th last year, in fact.

00:33:28.280 But this young girl, Holly Newton, was knifed multiple times in an alleyway in Hexham, Northumberland.

00:33:33.540 That's 96% English, right?

00:33:36.460 She was stabbed by a boy who was also English, who she knew from school.

00:33:41.780 Do we know the name of the boy?

00:33:43.440 Because he's a minor.

00:33:44.940 We don't know the name of the boy.

00:33:46.660 So, we don't know that.

00:33:47.620 That's...

00:33:48.020 Okay, fair.

00:33:48.860 But I'm going to get...

00:33:49.680 If it's 96% English...

00:33:50.580 It's fine to make the presumption.

00:33:51.740 I'm just saying.

00:33:52.260 We don't know...

00:33:52.620 Yeah, fair enough.

00:33:53.140 I'm going to make the assumption.

00:33:55.640 Because it...

00:33:57.120 The way they're talking about it is not in the sort of protective way that they talk about it.

00:34:03.600 Oh, yeah.

00:34:04.040 There's no euphemism like teen or...

00:34:06.340 Yeah, I mean...

00:34:07.040 Scholar or something.

00:34:08.220 Yeah.

00:34:08.500 Issues in our school system.

00:34:09.860 Yeah.

00:34:10.180 Yeah.

00:34:10.960 And apparently, he had been diagnosed with autism, apparently.

00:34:14.180 So, you know.

00:34:14.880 Oh, yeah.

00:34:15.380 But he'd been following her for 45 minutes.

00:34:17.340 Found her an alley.

00:34:18.040 Just repeated stabbings.

00:34:20.580 This girl.

00:34:21.180 Horrific.

00:34:21.540 Just the most horrific thing.

00:34:23.860 Multiple blows on her back, head, and face.

00:34:26.720 And he continued to stab her after someone tried to pull him off.

00:34:30.020 And then he stabbed the boy who pulled him off.

00:34:32.040 Right?

00:34:32.400 And it's just like...

00:34:33.000 This is mental.

00:34:34.900 Like, this isn't just a diversity problem.

00:34:36.960 Right?

00:34:37.120 There is a problem with the way that young people view one another at this point.

00:34:41.640 Right?

00:34:41.820 Stabbing is just a normal thing to do.

00:34:43.620 I mean...

00:34:43.860 And the thing is, it's not just young people either.

00:34:46.120 Right?

00:34:46.620 I don't know what has happened in this particular case.

00:34:49.300 This was from this week as well.

00:34:50.480 Where a 28-year-old man, Jordan Wilkes, stabbed a 9-year-old girl at a block of flats.

00:34:59.640 It's like, what the...

00:35:00.440 What are you doing?

00:35:01.820 Again, this is in Christchurch in Dorset, 95% English.

00:35:05.320 This is not a diversity problem.

00:35:07.300 This is a problem with something is going wrong in society itself.

00:35:11.280 Where we think that, for some reason, knives are just a normal thing.

00:35:14.520 I think this was a domestic occasion because there was a 50-year-old woman who was also arrested and questioned but not charged in connection with this.

00:35:20.140 And it happened in a stairwell.

00:35:21.400 So I think there's some sort of argument within the flats.

00:35:24.020 Maybe.

00:35:24.520 And I'm sure it is.

00:35:25.280 But the point is, this didn't used to be the way we resolved our problems.

00:35:28.380 Right?

00:35:28.640 And I know that lots of young people these days are, and I've seen loads of interviews and you speak to young people, and they are afraid.

00:35:36.520 Right?

00:35:36.720 They are afraid that other young people have knives.

00:35:39.160 And so they feel the need to carry knives as well.

00:35:40.860 And this is not just in the minority communities.

00:35:43.220 This is in the normal sort of majority community as well.

00:35:46.460 And it's something that we actually have to start addressing.

00:35:49.360 Because, like I said, we've got the statistics from last year, and I thought we'd just go through them.

00:35:53.260 So, as you can see, the knife crime is unbelievably high.

00:35:57.880 If I can actually get it over here.

00:36:00.360 So, just to give you their summary, in fact.

00:36:02.840 So, in 22-23, there were 50,000 offences involving a sharp instrument in England and Wales, which is 4% higher, but obviously lower than 2020.

00:36:10.280 Since then, the total number of offences involving a knife or sharp instrument, which includes Greater Manchester, but excludes Devon and Cornwall, because the recording system apparently is something weird.

00:36:22.400 But I can't imagine there isn't that much in Devon and Cornwall.

00:36:25.540 It has gone down slightly, but again, it's not anything significant.

00:36:29.040 I mean, you can see it.

00:36:30.200 It's still 44,000, and then it's gone up to 50,000 again.

00:36:34.040 And so, this is the highest we've ever had for homicides.

00:36:40.280 Now, you would argue, well, it's about the population.

00:36:43.580 There's more people here.

00:36:44.960 Sure, but there are more than twice, well, there are twice as many, more than twice as many.

00:36:49.240 So, this began recording in 1977, where there were 135 homicides a year involving knives, broken bottles, whatever.

00:36:56.840 And this counted 33% of all of them.

00:36:58.580 Well, in 2022, there are 282.

00:37:01.660 So, if the population hasn't doubled, then that hasn't tracked with population growth.

00:37:06.260 And it's also 41% of all homicides now, so they're being used more often.

00:37:10.940 So, this has just become a cultural norm.

00:37:13.460 And again, this is not just among minorities, but we'll get to that in a minute.

00:37:17.640 Can I get to page 12 on this?

00:37:19.380 I wonder if I can.

00:37:19.900 I will point out that when you do the demographic breakdown of just specifically London, it is overwhelmingly the minority communities.

00:37:31.180 Yeah, but the problem is, these things are not just happening in London.

00:37:34.060 Yes.

00:37:34.580 And they are going to places that are almost 100% homogenous.

00:37:38.780 So, am I on page 12 here?

00:37:42.600 Go down.

00:37:43.360 Go down.

00:37:44.760 Yeah, so this is where I got the thing.

00:37:46.900 And so, you'll notice that there are, I mean, parts that are not necessarily very diverse, where they have much larger numbers of stabbings now.

00:37:57.080 I mean, it's not good.

00:37:59.560 This is not good.

00:38:00.320 And this is, I mean, you get, I mean, there are correlative factors.

00:38:07.560 So, like, North Yorkshire has the lowest rate of offences per 100,000 at 35.

00:38:11.760 And, of course, West Midlands Police have got 178 per 100,000.

00:38:15.460 So, it's not that it doesn't also track with diversity, obviously.

00:38:20.420 But it isn't just the minorities.

00:38:21.740 For example, Gwent in Wales, a small area of Wales, they had the largest percentage increase in knife offences from 284 in 2022 to 372 in 2023, 96% Welsh.

00:38:38.320 Right.

00:38:38.740 So, unless there's a very, very active contingent.

00:38:42.240 But, again, as we've seen in some of these examples, it's not just the diversity.

00:38:47.240 It is the white people themselves doing it as well.

00:38:49.420 Some social norm breakdown.

00:38:50.740 Exactly.

00:38:51.620 And it seems to be among younger people, obviously.

00:38:53.960 In Diffid Powys, which I can't pronounce correctly, a 27% increase from 180 offences in 2022 to 28.

00:39:01.300 Again, 96% Welsh.

00:39:03.640 So, it's not just the diversity.

00:39:07.120 And it's not just the kids.

00:39:08.960 There seems to be a general...

00:39:13.780 Maybe the lack of kind of internal restraints that would come in a more traditional society.

00:39:19.080 I'm not saying we can or should necessarily go back to that, but...

00:39:22.960 Oh, I'm saying it.

00:39:23.640 Yeah, I know.

00:39:24.520 But, obviously, in a sincerely believing religious society where there's more monitoring and more of a sense that this is just intrinsically wrong, as opposed to what penalty I might pay right now.

00:39:36.340 So, yeah, there's going to be less inhibition to commit these kinds of crimes.

00:39:39.920 That's got to be true.

00:39:41.100 I think so.

00:39:42.160 And I think, as well, there's a kind of permissiveness or freedom that young people have these days.

00:39:49.780 They just don't need.

00:39:50.640 I mean, I really don't see the point of allowing them to just go roaming the streets.

00:39:56.680 It's like, no, force them to do things.

00:39:59.140 Like, force them to join clubs.

00:40:00.360 Force them to go hiking.

00:40:00.740 Yeah, they don't need to work anymore.

00:40:02.320 I mean, even in the 70s and 80s, it was normal to have a job as a kid, as a teenager.

00:40:06.460 You kind of had to, and your parents would make you if you didn't want to do it.

00:40:10.060 It's really hard to get one now, though, when you're competing with the entire third world at very low wage rates.

00:40:15.300 I mean, I remember, again, I'm born in 97, I remember trying to go and get Saturday jobs, and I had a couple, but you couldn't just walk up to somewhere and hand your CV in.

00:40:23.880 You have to either do the sort of multiple rounds of interviewing process because they've already advertised online via LinkedIn, or you're competing for, you know, your Saturday shift at McDonald's with...

00:40:34.040 Sure, but even if they aren't working, don't just, why are they roaming the streets?

00:40:38.980 No, get them to go to, like, Scouts or something.

00:40:40.780 Because about 40...

00:40:41.600 I'm really serious about it.

00:40:43.160 About 44% of them don't live in a household with their dad.

00:40:47.820 Exactly.

00:40:48.560 I mean, just to go through a few more statistics, what's interesting is that juveniles, so 10 to 17, were offenders in 18% of the cases.

00:40:56.140 So we want to be like, oh, well, it's kids.

00:40:58.140 No, it's not just kids.

00:40:59.260 I mean, that is a massive proportion, obviously, but it's not just kids.

00:41:02.980 And so, you know, like, for 82% of the cases, it's adults doing this.

00:41:10.380 So there's just this huge, like you say, breakdown in social norms, where the expectation inside of me, and when I was a kid, if I got into...

00:41:19.500 If I had a problem with someone, well, I'd have a fight with them, right?

00:41:22.780 And, okay, I might get a bloody nose or something.

00:41:25.660 But I didn't die.

00:41:26.960 No one died.

00:41:27.720 You know, it was totally normal.

00:41:29.400 And that seems to have escalated to where, well, we've both got knives, so we're going to have a knife fight now, which is obviously atrocious.

00:41:37.660 And, of course, the authorities just don't know what to do.

00:41:39.860 But, of course, we had knives as kids.

00:41:41.480 We just would have never thought about using them.

00:41:43.080 Well, yeah, exactly.

00:41:43.660 That's, you know, that's the normal issue.

00:41:45.440 It's not access to knives that was the problem.

00:41:47.880 And that's the thing.

00:41:48.640 The authorities don't know what to do about this.

00:41:50.860 So, of course, they're going to ban zombie knives, which I thought the Conservatives had already done a couple of years ago.

00:41:58.540 I think they legislated for it.

00:42:00.260 I don't know if it's passed through yet.

00:42:02.500 Right.

00:42:02.780 I'm sure they did.

00:42:03.840 But, anyway, they're going to ban zombie knives.

00:42:05.680 Naive question for me, Yankee.

00:42:06.920 What is a zombie knife?

00:42:07.960 It's a knife that's fancy.

00:42:09.100 It's a machete with, like, decals on it that you can order from Wish.

00:42:13.140 And it's got a funny-shaped blade because it looks like it's out of a zombie movie.

00:42:16.680 Easier to take a head off with.

00:42:18.240 No, probably not.

00:42:19.680 They're probably not in any way more effective or anything like that.

00:42:22.040 They probably get stuck, and because of the barbs or something like that, they'll rip and tear a bit more.

00:42:26.580 But it's more just for flash and show.

00:42:29.380 Yeah, it's more aesthetic.

00:42:30.580 But as if they won't be able to run home and grab a kitchen knife out of their mum's drawer.

00:42:34.240 Well, that's the point.

00:42:34.860 Of the 244 fatal stabbings in England and Wales last year, 101 of them were committed with kitchen knives.

00:42:41.200 So nearly half of them aren't done with anything spectacular.

00:42:44.980 It's just anything you would have in the home.

00:42:46.520 And, of course, what can they do about that?

00:42:49.020 Nothing.

00:42:49.940 You know, what are we going to do?

00:42:50.700 They ban being able to cook dinner.

00:42:52.960 It's like, sorry, you can't do this.

00:42:55.160 Idris Elba has been, the film star, has been on the hop about this.

00:43:01.040 Because he's very concerned, because obviously there is a predominance of this in the black community,

00:43:04.380 where young black men macheting each other to death in the street.

00:43:07.020 And he's complaining that, well, I can buy a knife anywhere.

00:43:10.280 It's like, yeah, but that's because they're household instruments.

00:43:12.960 You know?

00:43:13.200 I mean, okay, if it's not knives, what is it?

00:43:15.340 Bats?

00:43:16.260 You know, is it just chair legs?

00:43:17.780 How far does it go?

00:43:18.740 The problem is, surely, that these people want to kill one another.

00:43:22.640 Why are we living in a society where people are so ready to kill each other?

00:43:26.680 It's, anyway, I don't have an answer.

00:43:29.820 I don't have a solution.

00:43:31.180 Neither do they.

00:43:32.380 And the kind of right-wing cope of, well, we'll just deport all the foreigners.

00:43:37.000 I don't think that solves it either.

00:43:38.280 I don't think it's cope.

00:43:39.260 And I still think you need to see a per capita breakdown, because even though...

00:43:44.800 Well, I can only get the statistics.

00:43:46.940 Exactly.

00:43:47.280 And the statistics are not published for a very good reason.

00:43:49.500 But there are lots of examples, especially that have been happening in the last week or so,

00:43:53.980 where this probably isn't minority violence.

00:43:58.540 This, I think, is something that's seeping into the English community.

00:44:02.700 And so, anyway, I'm not saying I've got an answer or anything like that,

00:44:06.720 but it's just, it's not as simple as saying, well, it's just the foreigns.

00:44:11.300 It's worth recognizing the pattern before we try to answer it.

00:44:14.100 Yeah, exactly.

00:44:16.200 Excellent.

00:44:16.700 Well, we've got a Rumble member, Keith Kaiser.

00:44:19.820 So, thank you very much for that.

00:44:21.220 What does that actually translate into?

00:44:22.460 I don't know what being a monthly supporter is on Rumble, but thank you.

00:44:25.460 Cheers for the recurring donation, I suppose.

00:44:28.200 I don't know anything about that, actually.

00:44:29.820 It's brand new to me.

00:44:30.600 We just appreciate the support.

00:44:31.840 Right, so the debate around politics often gets lodged in the abstract realm of ideas.

00:44:39.360 And the reason is, if you suggest that non-consensual factors, whether they be social or biological,

00:44:46.540 might have some bearing on what you're inclined to believe,

00:44:50.640 you're immediately written off as a far-right racist conspiracy theorist.

00:44:53.840 And that's obviously because a few years ago, some Germans tried to do something similar,

00:45:01.660 took it very, very far, and ruined it for everyone else.

00:45:04.160 And this is what Exhibit A article is all about.

00:45:07.200 Did either of you gents take a look at this scorcher of a piece in The Atlantic?

00:45:11.280 It's the worst type of gutted journalism.

00:45:13.420 It tries to link Stefan Molyneux with Richard Spencer, with BAP, with Steve Saylor and Charlie Kirk?

00:45:19.800 And Elon Musk.

00:45:20.500 Don't forget him.

00:45:21.040 Oh, yes, quite.

00:45:22.880 He also is a pattern noticer.

00:45:25.280 It's a Schizio mood board.

00:45:26.960 But the reason I wanted to bring this up is because...

00:45:28.980 He's going to be sat next to him on an airplane flight.

00:45:31.860 That's what that is.

00:45:32.320 Someone needs to throw up that meme.

00:45:35.540 Roar Nationalist, get on it.

00:45:36.740 I'm going for BAP, man.

00:45:38.680 So, as long as he doesn't do that fake Russian accent in the entire flight.

00:45:41.680 You just don't know what's going to come out of his mouth, right?

00:45:44.000 That's what I like.

00:45:44.640 I like novelty.

00:45:45.800 Very true.

00:45:46.540 But I think this is obviously an antibody reaction to the idea that we're not all blank slates.

00:45:50.120 And you know quite a lot about this.

00:45:52.720 This is why we brought you on today to chat about your work.

00:45:55.700 Because you've done a lot of investigation into what heritable traits might incline you to be persuaded by what political beliefs, if I know correctly.

00:46:03.880 Yeah, although, you know, I'm not a specialist in political psychology.

00:46:06.960 People like Jonathan Haidt, and there are many others, investigate these things.

00:46:10.560 I've read them, so I'm not an expert.

00:46:12.960 But, yeah, I mean, it's pretty well established that political orientation is heritable.

00:46:17.280 It's somewhere between 0.3 and 0.4.

00:46:19.820 So that's not as heritable as Haidt, certainly.

00:46:21.720 But it does incline you in certain directions.

00:46:24.220 So just that I'm not a scientist.

00:46:26.440 That's 30 to 40 percent, right?

00:46:28.060 30 to 40 percent meaning, yeah.

00:46:30.480 So when you look at a population, we're trying to explain the differences in those populations with respect to a trait that can be attributed to genetics rather than other factors.

00:46:40.780 It's about 30 to 40 percent for political ideology.

00:46:43.220 How do you know that it's genetic and not just the consequence of being raised in a household that is Republican or Democrat?

00:46:50.220 Well, one obvious way to do this is look at twin studies.

00:46:53.200 So identical twins that are raised apart in very different environments.

00:46:56.240 We've got tens of thousands of those twin pairs now.

00:46:59.020 Follow them throughout their life course and look at, you know, what's the political ideology of those around them, their school, their parents, etc., and look at how they end up.

00:47:06.880 And by political ideology, we don't mean vote labor or vote conservative.

00:47:10.720 It's more like your personality traits that tend to incline you in one direction or another.

00:47:15.700 And look, these systematically differ between men and women on average and between individuals.

00:47:20.860 So, yeah, these kinds of things can explain some of our behavior.

00:47:24.820 How do you feel about retributive justice?

00:47:27.180 Women like it less than men do.

00:47:29.040 Men really like to punish people who engage in antisocial behavior.

00:47:33.460 I've got a theory on that.

00:47:34.560 What's your theory?

00:47:37.320 Well, I mean, if you look at it, when we say antisocial behavior, we're talking like violent behavior.

00:47:41.560 Yeah, essentially.

00:47:42.340 That hurts the group.

00:47:43.680 Women tend not to engage in violent behavior.

00:47:46.400 They don't understand the impulses, the motives.

00:47:48.440 They don't understand why they do it.

00:47:50.400 And they don't understand what the consequence needs to be for someone who does that.

00:47:53.600 That's true.

00:47:54.040 That's what I think it is.

00:47:54.580 And many of these dispositions are mediated by hormones.

00:47:57.580 It's not like genes causing the disposition.

00:47:59.560 It's genes causing hormones to be taken up in a certain way, influencing brain chemistry.

00:48:04.640 I think it's also experience as well.

00:48:06.480 I think as a man, you know why that guy has done this.

00:48:09.320 No, no, he needs to.

00:48:09.940 And you'd better know, or you're not going to be able to pay it back.

00:48:12.520 Exactly.

00:48:13.080 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:13.780 I mean, one of the interesting things here, you know, might be called toxic masculinity by some,

00:48:17.500 but evolutionary psychologists, biologists have talked about moralistic aggression or strong reciprocity.

00:48:23.440 And the idea here is if you've got like a public good, we all are expected to contribute to it.

00:48:28.100 It could be a cooperative hunt.

00:48:29.340 It could be policing the community, something like that.

00:48:33.220 Men are more willing to not only contribute to the public good in certain circumstances,

00:48:36.780 but to exact harsh punishments on people at personal cost to themselves.

00:48:42.720 And this actually doesn't benefit them at all, but it does benefit the community.

00:48:46.820 And when you've got a large, impersonal, liberal society, these kinds of traits are not rewarded

00:48:51.900 in the same way they would be in a smaller, more homogenous society.

00:48:54.980 And this is why, if you look at the sort of stats that the New Zealand government did about

00:48:59.180 10 or so years ago, you see that men are usually net taxpayer contributors throughout their lifetime.

00:49:04.720 Women are usually not net taxpayer contributors, and they take more out of state benefits because

00:49:09.940 they live longer because they have certain medical complications than men.

00:49:13.300 But also women are more generous with other people's money and being inclined to vote left,

00:49:18.400 generous with more other women's husband's money, certainly, and are less likely to be harsher

00:49:23.340 with criminal penalties for the people that are exploiting the system and making it worse

00:49:26.680 for everyone else.

00:49:27.720 I mean, it reminds me of, do you guys know Inspector Calls, the famous...

00:49:31.440 So, it's mandatorily taught on every GCSE syllabus in the UK.

00:49:35.540 It was written by J.B. Priestley, who was an English socialist who first performed the play

00:49:39.220 in the Soviet Union.

00:49:40.980 And the idea is this, basically, this local trade unionist prostitute gets thrown out of her job,

00:49:45.900 then insults the daughter of the guy whose workplace she tried to destroy with her socialist activism,

00:49:53.340 and then sleeps with the son and gets pregnant, and then goes to the wife who's running a women's

00:49:58.220 institute because it's charitable enterprise before the welfare state, and pretends to be

00:50:01.820 a member of the family, and then says, give me money.

00:50:04.360 And the wife says, no, you've just lied to me.

00:50:08.000 She kills herself, and this ghostly inspector comes along and blames them all and capitalism

00:50:11.840 for killing her.

00:50:12.740 And it's like, actually, no, I think asserting standards via charity was a good thing, really.

00:50:17.340 But I think there's going to be lots of left-wing voting women that are more inclined to go,

00:50:21.140 oh, but she's crying.

00:50:22.220 She made some mistakes.

00:50:23.860 I want to push back on that a little bit.

00:50:25.280 I think for the last five to ten years, this has been pretty popular in the discourse on the right.

00:50:30.920 It is true that women are a little bit more empathetic and more open in the technical sense,

00:50:35.700 openness to experience, personality trait.

00:50:37.820 And that can lead to more pathological altruism.

00:50:40.040 But I think what's really going on here, for the most part, is women are a little bit more conformist

00:50:44.840 than men, on average, and they care more about their social reputation.

00:50:48.060 They're much less likely to burn their reputation in the service of some principle-like truth

00:50:52.640 that they're going to stand for.

00:50:53.820 And so what you see is, on college campuses, for example, university campuses, you would call them here,

00:50:59.000 women were actually more right-wing than men in the 70s, in many cases, and much more left-wing

00:51:04.020 now because they see where power lies.

00:51:05.960 They see who their employers will be and what the average ideology is in the government,

00:51:11.320 in the civil service, at every level of society, in Hollywood.

00:51:15.600 And so I think what's really going on here is not just a kind of pathological empathy or altruism.

00:51:20.780 There's something else.

00:51:21.720 And so if things change, I actually see women swinging faster than men.

00:51:26.180 This is what Mary Harrington's written about, is that throughout history, women were the enforcers

00:51:30.100 of certain social customs and those trended towards risk aversion.

00:51:32.540 If you centralize risk aversion in state welfare, they'll go towards that.

00:51:35.960 If you centralize it within the community, there'll be the community enforcement arm.

00:51:38.700 And that's why I had a phone conversation with a prominent politician earlier this week,

00:51:43.540 and she said, why are some of many young women just so crazy?

00:51:48.120 Like, why don't they get it?

00:51:49.100 Why aren't they voting right-wing?

00:51:49.980 And I said, because unlike the trans issue, immigration hasn't been positioned to them

00:51:53.920 as a women's safety issue.

00:51:55.040 And that needs to be the key campaign.

00:51:56.560 But also, they are still the social enforcers.

00:51:59.080 That's right.

00:51:59.340 It's just that the social enforcers are the left-wing hegemon.

00:52:01.540 Yeah, so you saw that during COVID.

00:52:03.580 You saw that, of course, during alcohol prohibition in the United States.

00:52:06.660 They both led the charge against it and were the ultimate enforcers.

00:52:10.140 You know, it's throwing out guilt and shame on people if they weren't wearing their mask

00:52:13.680 right, etc.

00:52:14.320 And these are small, average differences.

00:52:16.140 There are lots of outliers.

00:52:17.620 But when you take these populations and you put them together, you start noticing patterns.

00:52:21.000 Yes, so I bring up this article, so I wanted to ask you what you make of this particular

00:52:25.960 passage.

00:52:27.440 No matter how hard people try, however, race cannot be reduced to the results of an IQ test.

00:52:32.280 There is more to the complicated genetic, cultural, economic, and historical realities

00:52:36.220 of something like race than a few lines on the chart.

00:52:38.600 When the author asked Steve Saylor to explain the links between race and intelligence, he said

00:52:42.320 he doesn't see strong reasons to assume that intelligence is all that different from

00:52:45.520 a trait like height, which is clearly driven by both genes and the environment.

00:52:48.800 What do you think of that?

00:52:49.480 Well, first of all, the consensus among the relevant experts, and I'm not appealing to

00:52:53.480 mere expertise, but, you know, when you have enough peer-reviewed studies over a long enough

00:52:57.960 time, there's probably kind of something to it, especially when it actually contravenes

00:53:02.660 the official ideology, you know, of what you're supposed to find.

00:53:05.740 And so what we do find is intelligence is about 70 to 80 percent heritable by adulthood.

00:53:10.840 Height is about 90 percent.

00:53:12.120 So it's reasonable to assume that these are heritable traits that are distributed unevenly in

00:53:17.200 the population.

00:53:17.740 You can't automatically infer from the fact that there are individual differences that

00:53:23.180 there are average group differences.

00:53:24.880 On the other hand, there's something very interesting, which is I now work in indirectly in this realm

00:53:30.840 of genetics.

00:53:31.300 And when you make predictions about adults or embryos, you use what are called polygenic risk

00:53:36.860 scores.

00:53:37.640 And I'll just tell you this.

00:53:39.320 You can't actually take a polygenic risk score from one ethnic group and apply it to another

00:53:44.480 one that's genetically distant from it.

00:53:46.280 It doesn't work or it doesn't work very well.

00:53:48.900 Why?

00:53:49.300 Because there are genetic differences between populations.

00:53:52.640 So it's indisputable these exist.

00:53:54.960 It's so indisputable you literally can't use this in medicine if you would like to or to guide

00:53:59.920 embryo selection if you would like to.

00:54:01.340 You need an Asian data set in order to get really good polygenic risk scores for Asians,

00:54:07.160 African data set, et cetera.

00:54:08.760 So it's clearly true these genetic differences exist.

00:54:12.220 Do they exist for IQ, for height, for all these things?

00:54:16.200 I assume for most heritable traits, there are going to be these differences.

00:54:19.360 And I'm not appealing to the authority of any one person, but the Harvard evolutionary biologist, David

00:54:27.380 Reich, found this in his book, Who We Are and How We Got Here.

00:54:30.640 It's a book about essentially the evolution of different groups of humans out of Africa.

00:54:36.000 And what he says in the last chapter is more or less, and he published this in the New

00:54:39.240 York Times, actually, surprisingly, said it would be absolutely shocking if when we

00:54:43.760 looked around the world, we would just find identical traits exactly distributed in all

00:54:49.080 these populations.

00:54:50.080 I mean, we know if you just look at people, like Asians are shorter than Africans on average,

00:54:54.760 right?

00:54:55.180 So like, they're not.

00:54:56.400 And the only question is, does this apply to the mind?

00:54:58.900 There's no reason it wouldn't apply to the mind.

00:55:01.640 But I don't have a definitive answer here.

00:55:03.840 What they're saying is there is a definitive answer, and it has to be no.

00:55:08.200 And if you ask questions about that, you're a bad person.

00:55:11.020 And you're not even applying a moral valence to observing those differences, whereas they are.

00:55:15.140 I mean, they've recategorized racist as noticing the difference between different groups of

00:55:20.320 people that have been shaped by geography, culture, time.

00:55:23.100 And then they've also, and this was a very provocatively titled article that you released,

00:55:27.780 but deceptively provocative, I'd like to say.

00:55:30.520 They've also accused anyone of saying that as being a eugenicist.

00:55:34.700 Well, yeah, this was an interesting article.

00:55:36.840 It got me in trouble in 2018 at the height of the woke revolution.

00:55:39.840 I was asked to write this article.

00:55:41.160 In philosophy, we do things called debates.

00:55:43.640 We used to do these things.

00:55:45.360 And the debate was for and against eugenics.

00:55:47.560 And what I thought is, you know, you're supposed to steel man the best version of that.

00:55:51.440 I'm at least mildly in favor of polygenic selection.

00:55:54.460 We'll talk about that later.

00:55:56.100 I think if given the ability to select traits among kids by choosing embryos, generally, that's

00:56:01.740 actually a good thing.

00:56:02.720 You can reduce disease risks and so on.

00:56:04.560 But anyway, what I tried to do is say, look, there are versions of eugenics that are worth

00:56:10.220 defending the versions that Charles Darwin and Francis Galton, for example, who coined

00:56:14.700 the term advocated, which is individual choices, judicious marriages guided by knowledge about

00:56:21.300 heredity.

00:56:21.880 That's how I define it.

00:56:23.000 That's how they defined it.

00:56:24.640 Leonard Darwin, Charles Darwin's son, president of the Eugenics Society of England, define

00:56:29.040 eugenics as the use of heredity for the betterment, mental and physical, of the human race.

00:56:35.320 Okay.

00:56:36.180 Yeah, that sounds about right.

00:56:37.560 If you knew about genetics, this is what every Jew in New York does before they go on a first

00:56:42.460 date.

00:56:42.820 You may not know this, but Ashkenazi Jews are especially susceptible to a single gene variant

00:56:48.640 that can destroy their children's lives.

00:56:50.860 This is called Tay-Sachs.

00:56:51.960 And so if you're both carriers for it, you give birth to children who have the most horrific

00:56:56.700 fates imaginable.

00:56:57.680 It's a protein folding disorder.

00:56:59.800 I don't know anything about this.

00:57:00.840 That normally results in either a stillborn child in many cases, or they lived for maybe

00:57:06.080 a few years with every organ in their body slowly destroying itself.

00:57:10.160 Is this eugenics?

00:57:11.500 Of course it is.

00:57:12.680 They're guiding their reproductive choices with an understanding of genetics.

00:57:16.860 Is this state-sponsored coercive eugenics?

00:57:19.520 No, it's not.

00:57:20.280 And I would never defend that.

00:57:21.520 So everybody's a eugenicist in the sense that you choose your partner on the basis of certain

00:57:26.740 traits, you notice genetic differences in individuals and populations.

00:57:31.000 That's not necessarily a bad thing.

00:57:33.340 What they want to do in this Atlantic article is connect that with Nazism, and they want to

00:57:39.060 connect it with this idea that if you recognize genetic differences, that must be because you

00:57:43.520 want to destroy people who aren't like you.

00:57:45.520 There's really no relationship between those things.

00:57:47.820 And not being funny, BAP, Lomas, yourself, would be pretty questionable Nazis considering

00:57:56.360 Jewish ancestry is in there somewhere.

00:57:58.060 We're all half-Jewish, yeah.

00:57:59.300 That's right.

00:57:59.640 We're all Mischlings, yeah.

00:58:00.740 There you go.

00:58:01.400 So, you know, just very strange.

00:58:03.140 But those sort of hate facts and those observations have led you onto your recent work.

00:58:06.960 You published a sort of preface of your new paper.

00:58:10.340 That was another one you directed me to.

00:58:11.920 But preface of your new paper about the end of liberalism on Lotus Eaters yesterday.

00:58:15.540 Do you care giving us a brief overview of this?

00:58:18.060 Sure.

00:58:18.440 Why not?

00:58:19.400 And this is mostly a scientific approach with a little bit of moralizing in there.

00:58:23.380 So it's a very sort of PPE paper, a little bit of political philosophy, a little bit

00:58:26.820 of ethics.

00:58:27.920 So what we argue in this paper, my co-author and me, is more or less that liberalism has

00:58:32.580 done actually a lot of good for the world, especially, you know, giving birth to the English

00:58:37.540 Industrial Revolution, which reached its height, I suppose, in the United States.

00:58:40.860 It's clearly the emphasis on individual liberty, private property rights, an impersonal conception

00:58:47.500 of justice where the law applies to everyone equally.

00:58:50.180 There's not the sort of privileged, you know, people who inherit their rights because of their

00:58:55.140 last name.

00:58:55.900 And then there's the disprivileged.

00:58:57.400 Liberalism tries to, I think in principle it does, guarantee equal rights and so on.

00:59:02.440 The problem is, and there are many problems, we've all discussed them in our own ways,

00:59:08.000 we think that because of the fact that it has such an emphasis on individual liberty and

00:59:13.900 it has such an emphasis that the state should remain neutral with respect to all conceptions

00:59:19.460 of the good life, it both generates wealth which lowers birth rates and can't offer a solution

00:59:27.760 to that by definition because it can't prioritize one particular way of living.

00:59:32.560 It can't say that other things equal, yeah, we'll leave you to your thing, but it is better

00:59:36.900 if you get married and have kids.

00:59:37.860 It's a purely negative doctrine.

00:59:39.360 It's a negative doctrine.

00:59:40.580 So giving you a sense that it is better to have family formation and children and care

00:59:45.320 about these things and care about your civilization, that's kind of out of bounds by definition

00:59:50.520 of liberalism.

00:59:51.280 You might, as a liberal who likes private property rights and free trade, I think all of us like

00:59:55.420 that to some extent, you might think it would be better if we didn't have this demographic

00:59:59.460 decline.

01:00:00.600 But again, that's not what a liberal government by its own principles allows itself to do.

01:00:04.920 You're not drawing on liberalism to arrive at that conclusion.

01:00:07.480 No.

01:00:07.620 You're drawing on pre-liberal, pre-theoretical human...

01:00:10.520 Substantive values.

01:00:12.240 Yeah, exactly.

01:00:13.400 That's right.

01:00:14.140 So we think, and another aspect of this, so we think liberalism by generating wealth and

01:00:18.800 prosperity, you know, accidentally lowers birth rates a lot.

01:00:22.320 But so does any other society, actually, that generates wealth and prosperity.

01:00:26.680 And by encouraging mass migration, ends up inadvertently lowering social trust, which

01:00:32.620 is the basis for everything good in the world, right?

01:00:35.700 When you have low social trust, what do you do?

01:00:38.280 Well, capitalism doesn't function well anymore.

01:00:40.700 Like, when you go to a rural gas station, the cashier may step away and go to the bathroom

01:00:45.700 and just sort of have a jar there that says, like, leave your money here.

01:00:49.340 And most people will do it.

01:00:50.480 It's amazing.

01:00:51.040 Most people will simply put their money there.

01:00:53.040 They wouldn't think...

01:00:53.620 When you have a low-trust society, people don't do that anymore.

01:00:57.520 When you have low-trust politics, politicians will start taking bribes rather than thinking

01:01:02.320 about the welfare of their citizens.

01:01:03.520 It affects everyone.

01:01:04.520 And so we think that by encouraging mass migration, this is the second part of this,

01:01:10.160 what you get is lowering the social trust.

01:01:12.840 And we actually found a meta-study that looks at all of the other studies on ethnic diversity

01:01:17.840 and social trust.

01:01:19.540 And basically every major study, and these are done by left-wing academics, right?

01:01:23.940 I repeat myself, left-wing academics, they still find a negative relationship between

01:01:30.180 social trust and ethnic diversity.

01:01:32.000 They don't even want to find this relationship.

01:01:34.320 It just falls out of the data.

01:01:36.060 And so what we think then is putting this all together, you get lower birth rates without

01:01:40.240 the possibility of solving them because you get low birth rates in lots of societies.

01:01:43.760 You get low social trust as an inadvertent result of mass migration.

01:01:49.900 And once you have that, you get factioning.

01:01:52.220 You guys have talked about this.

01:01:53.700 You get different political parties that just try to distribute goods to these different

01:01:58.080 groups.

01:01:58.700 They coalesce into a kind of Leninism, right?

01:02:01.500 They'll temporarily form alliances in order to extract resources from other groups.

01:02:05.720 And this is simply a political system that will be replaced, I argue, by some form of

01:02:12.960 tribalism in the long run.

01:02:14.100 Whether you like it or not, it shall be done.

01:02:16.860 That's the argument.

01:02:18.000 That's certainly what Eric Kaufman was observing in White Shift when he did comparative studies

01:02:21.660 to African nations that have the highest levels of ethnic diversity among tribes and demographics

01:02:28.560 and ethnicities.

01:02:29.700 And every single business of state descends into squabbling over which tribe is allocated,

01:02:34.880 which percentage of the resources, which is why they can't build any infrastructure.

01:02:38.300 I think it's not the only reason, but I have been to Ethiopia.

01:02:40.720 I was there 25 years ago.

01:02:42.240 I was working at the American embassy in Saudi Arabia when I was about your age, right after

01:02:45.920 college as an intern.

01:02:47.560 And I made friends with an Ethiopian who was working at the embassy.

01:02:50.980 He said, oh, you should come to my country.

01:02:52.480 And I love Ethiopian food.

01:02:54.720 And he was a cool guy.

01:02:55.840 So I came out there.

01:02:56.860 And the first thing I noticed is, you know, somebody told me there are like 92 tribes here.

01:03:01.720 And the main thing you need to do is understand this tribe will not talk to that one.

01:03:05.860 This one's at war with the other one.

01:03:07.820 And yeah, it makes governing essentially impossible.

01:03:11.300 You just form these shifting coalitions to extract wealth and resources from us.

01:03:15.640 It's not a nation, is it?

01:03:17.040 No, no, it's not.

01:03:17.940 Each tribe is its own nation.

01:03:19.460 And that's the issue.

01:03:19.940 Essentially, that's it.

01:03:20.780 Yeah.

01:03:20.900 So some choice quotes from the paper, I thought, that might illustrate your point.

01:03:25.800 Liberalism's sustainability problem is then as follows.

01:03:28.420 Liberals cannot impose a fitness-enhancing vision of the good life without violating

01:03:31.900 their commitment to pluralism and individual liberty, so they must tolerate ways of life

01:03:35.720 that minimize fitness.

01:03:36.800 Without a sect, tribal tradition to fight for, it may be difficult to see why many should

01:03:40.840 bother having children or making the kinds of sacrifices required by a lasting civilization.

01:03:45.160 Nevertheless, liberal polities cannot prioritize the formation of families over the satisfaction

01:03:49.360 of any other desires or preferences.

01:03:51.420 Instead, in order to remain liberal, a state must stay neutral between different conceptions

01:03:56.080 of the good that form the basis for meaningful life and often give us reasons to have children.

01:03:59.780 Liberal institutions could try to prevent ethnic conflict and thus reduce political polarization

01:04:03.680 and increase social trust by curbing immigration.

01:04:06.300 As explained above, though, these institutions have moral and economic incentives to increase

01:04:10.420 diversity via immigration, as we saw in that Atlantic article.

01:04:13.220 It might go even further than that, not just incentives, but if you have a declining population

01:04:19.320 in, say, a welfare state or pension state, it's not even that it's an incentive.

01:04:24.980 They view it as a necessity.

01:04:26.900 We need the bodies to fill out the demographic pyramid, and so we're just going to get...

01:04:32.300 But then it turns our country into a kind of black hole for lineages.

01:04:36.220 Well, that was the Bill and Melinda Gates study recently with The Lancet that found by 2,100,

01:04:39.600 all but six nations in the world would have sub-replacement birth rates.

01:04:42.940 They included Israel in that, which I don't agree with because they're one of the only

01:04:45.940 ones that still has positive birth rates.

01:04:47.720 And they said that it's only going to be two countries in South Asia and four countries

01:04:52.340 in sub-Saharan Africa, and so the rest of the world will just have to get all their

01:04:55.300 people from there.

01:04:56.300 It was just a foregone conclusion that we're just going to have to, like, strip mine the

01:05:01.100 horn of Africa for people to populate really technical, increasingly complex and

01:05:06.480 technological professions.

01:05:07.260 And suddenly the answer is to why 72% of Somalians are in social housing.

01:05:10.980 Why are we battery farming?

01:05:11.840 Well, now you have your answer.

01:05:13.240 Yes.

01:05:13.700 Yeah.

01:05:14.140 Robert Jenrick, a Tory leadership contender who wrote that paper that we're referencing,

01:05:19.440 wrote an article yesterday after the visa numbers came out, and he found out that we

01:05:23.480 had imported more family members of existing Somalians in Britain via chain migration last

01:05:29.120 year than we did chemists, biologists, physicists, and structural engineers from every other country

01:05:33.720 combined.

01:05:34.080 Yeah, and this goes to the incentives problem.

01:05:37.060 So as we argue, and you guys have talked about before, you know, large corporations have incentives

01:05:42.640 to get cheap labor.

01:05:44.040 And also, you know, they do high IQ immigration as well, right?

01:05:46.960 But they're going to prioritize whoever's best at the job over their own citizens.

01:05:50.300 And there is some short-run benefit to that.

01:05:52.560 You get cheaper and better goods to some extent while breaking down some of the problems we

01:05:57.760 mentioned before.

01:05:58.860 Then you get on top of it, once you've got this process going, what we have in the United

01:06:03.160 States now, where political parties explicitly import new voters, where you've got, you know,

01:06:08.080 what do we have, 10 to 12 million illegals just under the Biden administration alone?

01:06:12.440 We've had many more before that.

01:06:14.220 And there's a rush to try to prevent states from requiring that you show ID when you vote.

01:06:21.180 And this is not coincidental.

01:06:23.040 The illegals are being actively courted by the Democrats as well.

01:06:25.940 They will just openly say that we are for you and we want you to vote for us.

01:06:30.340 So the solution to this, you put in another paper.

01:06:34.660 I'll go for the cultural solutions and the technological solutions we'll have to hash

01:06:37.740 out after.

01:06:38.160 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:38.660 But this was an interesting one that I found, which is enlightened tribalism, which I think

01:06:41.640 is a framing that you'll actually like quite a lot.

01:06:44.240 I've been calling myself a tribalist for quite some time now.

01:06:46.400 Yeah, well, so there's a quote here that I found interesting.

01:06:49.720 We argue that although tribalism can encourage needless conflict, it can also provide meaning,

01:06:53.300 promote important values, and increase the long-run viability of human groups better

01:06:57.120 than liberal cosmopolitanism.

01:06:58.380 We call the view that we endorse enlightened tribalism.

01:07:00.640 So is it just that tribalism is the natural state of human beings?

01:07:03.500 And so if you're unilaterally practicing universalism, you're disadvantaged, can't increase

01:07:07.980 the population of your tribe, and will be dominated by another tribe?

01:07:12.580 Yeah, so there's the kind of evolutionary component, which is exactly that.

01:07:16.840 You know, tribes tend to provide public goods well.

01:07:19.720 They provide a sense of meaning, and people with a sense of meaning do tend to have more

01:07:23.200 children.

01:07:23.520 And ultimately, the winner in the evolutionary game of life is, of course, those

01:07:28.380 who reproduce the most.

01:07:29.380 That's just true by definition of being an organism on this planet.

01:07:33.240 But there's also the just purely moral aspect of that, which is partly derived from the science

01:07:38.840 as well.

01:07:39.260 And that is, we are a tribal creature.

01:07:41.520 We evolved to care more about our family or, you know, kin, as you would put it in England,

01:07:46.180 right?

01:07:46.380 You've got kin selection.

01:07:47.380 You've got group selection.

01:07:48.520 And the idea that we would sacrifice our lives or have, you know, five children instead of

01:07:54.720 one or zero for humanity or for human rights or some abstract ideal is preposterous.

01:08:01.600 Most people aren't wired that way, but they will do it for their church, their community,

01:08:05.660 their family, their religion, their nation.

01:08:07.440 And so we think, like, recognizing this is both a good thing, it's part of human nature

01:08:13.360 and building our morality around our nature, but then also recognizing as we do, you know,

01:08:19.820 this can become pathological.

01:08:21.320 So if you only care about your tribe and you see the world as purely zero sum, well, you

01:08:26.700 might just attack any other tribe, kill them, take their stuff.

01:08:29.940 But we think enlightened tribalism, what characterizes it is you recognize there are duties to other

01:08:34.760 people and there are reasons to cooperate for reciprocity, for mutual gains.

01:08:39.020 Had Hitler, instead of invading Poland and considering the Slavs, natural slaves of the

01:08:44.820 Germans, traded with them, there would be more Germans and more Poles and the Germans probably

01:08:50.860 would have actually gotten their goals achieved better.

01:08:53.240 I'm not saying their goals were the right goals, but look, it's actually counterproductive

01:08:57.560 and morally bad to just be a blind tribalist.

01:09:00.940 But I think we can recognize that there are clearly good forms of this, and this is going

01:09:05.440 to make a comeback in the current century, I think.

01:09:07.280 I think so.

01:09:08.180 And I think one of the problems that the liberals have is they don't understand that there is

01:09:12.900 actually a lot of nuance in the nature of a tribe itself.

01:09:18.800 It's not just in and out.

01:09:21.860 The entire tribe is maintained by a web of relationships, and those relationships also go outwards as well

01:09:27.540 as inwards.

01:09:28.540 The classic example is the, honestly, the relationships that the English have, the Welsh, the Irish,

01:09:35.460 and the Scottish have.

01:09:36.520 These are all tribal peoples.

01:09:37.980 We know each other.

01:09:38.720 We've got stereotypes of each other.

01:09:39.840 And that extends to, of course, the people on the continent as well.

01:09:41.820 We all know what a German sense of humor is like, what French cooking is like, Italian work

01:09:46.480 ethic is like.

01:09:48.600 The stereotypes make us predictable to one another.

01:09:51.620 And as soon as something's predictable, then it's not dangerous.

01:09:54.280 And you know, oh, that's fine.

01:09:55.500 You know, it's just an Italian who's come in, and he's going to start criticizing my food

01:09:59.860 or something, right?

01:10:00.500 He's not going to do something.

01:10:01.580 I know what the kind of person I'm dealing with is.

01:10:04.180 And so suddenly you've got a much more disarmed world.

01:10:07.540 You know, the Europeans don't hate each other, actually.

01:10:09.580 That's right.

01:10:10.160 And actually, okay, so again, back to World War II, a lot of these norms where we pathologize

01:10:14.820 any form of tribalism for fear that, you know, a mustached man is going to come on a horse

01:10:19.660 and, you know, take over Germany again.

01:10:21.960 We, when you actually look around the world, again, I've been living in South America, I've

01:10:26.460 been to Ethiopia, I've been many places in Ecuador, where I live part time, people, people

01:10:32.460 laugh at our kind of, well, they have a certain name for Netflix, I guess I won't use it on

01:10:36.920 here.

01:10:37.060 But they openly mock what Hollywood pushes, and they make stereotypes all the time of

01:10:43.400 the different subgroups within the country, and it's considered normal, and they don't

01:10:48.060 really fight over it.

01:10:49.240 They laugh at it.

01:10:50.900 It's really interesting.

01:10:52.380 So sometimes when you put it out in the open, and you just make jokes out of it, it's actually

01:10:56.880 less dangerous than when you pathologize it.

01:10:59.500 It's domesticating it.

01:11:00.920 That's what it does.

01:11:01.620 It completely domesticates it.

01:11:02.880 I first realized this in 2009, when I went to Oktoberfest in Germany, and on the campsite

01:11:09.080 that we were staying in, obviously there were loads of different European ethnicities.

01:11:12.240 And, like, none of us knew each other, but everyone knew each other, right?

01:11:18.280 And so instantly there was already this kind of camaraderie, you know, there was a Belgian

01:11:22.620 guy, go get government, you know, like, do you even live in a state?

01:11:26.040 You know, but everyone had something to say to each other, and it wasn't hostile or fearful,

01:11:31.220 and we're all just sat around drinking.

01:11:32.500 And yet, you know, we're all from completely different countries, but we've all got certain

01:11:36.140 preconceptions that we were happy to fulfill, because they are basically true.

01:11:40.800 You know, there is a kernel of truth in them.

01:11:43.180 And so no one felt on edge or unsafe or anything like that, and it was just a really small microcosm

01:11:48.780 of, oh, okay, actually, before liberalism told us that all of this was wrong, it's just

01:11:53.920 normal and human, and actually people get along like this.

01:11:56.280 So this is the sort of social trust way of engendering higher birth rates and a continuity

01:12:03.120 of not necessarily liberalism, but the national character of European peoples, which can coexist

01:12:10.260 with the occasional short-term war.

01:12:12.920 But just not even just European peoples.

01:12:14.760 I think this is just peoples around the world.

01:12:17.120 Yeah, I think all people are tribal.

01:12:18.940 I mean, there are some interesting claims here.

01:12:21.800 This is, there was a spicy paper published in 2019 in the journal Science.

01:12:25.460 So this is like mainstream journal, but was pre-2020.

01:12:28.440 So maybe it couldn't be published anymore.

01:12:30.500 It was then popularized in a book by Joe Henrich at Harvard called The Weirdest People in the

01:12:35.060 World.

01:12:35.780 Weird for Western-educated, industrial-rich, democratic.

01:12:38.780 What the paper argued, somewhat controversially, provocatively, is that Catholic prohibitions

01:12:45.260 on cousin marriage produced for more than a thousand years, actually produced effects

01:12:51.920 on the European people.

01:12:53.720 Cousin marriage is the norm around the world.

01:12:55.800 It's still practiced by about one-eighth of all people in the world and like half of Muslims.

01:13:00.620 And what happens is they argue that when you introduce this, what you actually get as

01:13:05.040 a byproduct is more of an impersonal sense of justice, less preference for mere family

01:13:11.900 members.

01:13:12.540 And so it actually makes commercial life and political life a little bit easier.

01:13:16.340 So there are these interesting cultural consequences of genetic decisions, which were themselves

01:13:21.880 influenced by cultural decisions for reasons that weren't fully understood by the Catholic

01:13:26.760 Church.

01:13:27.660 And these are examples of, you know, you can actually get more or less tribalism.

01:13:33.000 And actually, less tribalism probably served Europeans very well 500 years ago and may

01:13:40.220 not be serving Europeans very well anymore in a world in which it's really easy to get

01:13:45.180 here and in which Europeans created after World War II the sense of universal rights, the sense

01:13:51.260 that if you're persecuted for any reason, come on over, right?

01:13:55.360 And you can fake the persecution.

01:13:56.960 It doesn't matter.

01:13:58.900 In this environment, those are not good traits to have, right?

01:14:02.560 And so I actually predict a reversion back to tribalism for that reason.

01:14:05.700 But even in the absence of any tribal peoples, I think it could still be argued that actually

01:14:12.740 a certain level of tribalism is a desirable thing.

01:14:15.980 So like you say, you know, it makes people feel and the way I've been framing is a sense

01:14:20.940 of belonging, right?

01:14:21.900 If you feel that you belong somewhere, that's emotionally important.

01:14:26.540 And I think that's one of the reasons that young people are so depressed.

01:14:29.100 I think it's one of the reasons why so many women are depressed.

01:14:30.920 It's like they genuinely don't feel that they belong anywhere.

01:14:33.500 So you haven't got any obligations for anyone.

01:14:34.860 You haven't got a purpose.

01:14:36.060 You have a reason to have a family, to have children, to be on the continuity, the Burkean

01:14:42.100 continuity of society.

01:14:43.840 And a callback to the stabbing.

01:14:45.940 So like none of us know exactly why this is happening, including among the native Brits.

01:14:49.900 We're not going to pretend we do.

01:14:51.120 But there's probably a role for this sort of thing, right?

01:14:53.900 If you felt like you were bought into the community and not a mere individual performing

01:14:58.360 for social media or whatever it is, right?

01:15:01.000 You might be more likely either to have an internal sense, like I shouldn't do this, or

01:15:05.260 you'd be monitored by community members and you'd be told you aren't going to do this.

01:15:09.820 Well, this is why I said European peoples, because they are the most liberal by disposition

01:15:14.880 rather than ideologically, which is not self-propagating.

01:15:17.640 And they're also the ones suffering from the most precipitous birth rate collapse alongside

01:15:21.020 the Japanese, the South Koreans, and the Anglosphere, all of which I hope actually have thriving

01:15:25.220 birth rates and become very nice countries again.

01:15:27.560 And which inherited their institutions from Europeans.

01:15:30.420 Exactly.

01:15:30.900 Didn't just fall out of the sky.

01:15:32.180 One last thing on the tribal thing as well.

01:15:35.160 I, like you say, we don't know why this is happening, but I have a strong suspicion this

01:15:40.200 is because that no good example is being set, right?

01:15:43.020 Because normally it would be, well, what would your grandfather do?

01:15:45.440 What would your father do?

01:15:46.440 And now it's, well, what does the drill rapper do that you're listening to?

01:15:50.760 On YouTube or something like that.

01:15:52.920 And so there's a kind of continuity of tradition that's been broken there and it's being filled

01:15:56.040 by something.

01:15:57.700 What do teenagers want to be when you pull them?

01:15:59.900 Social media influencers, YouTuber, and nothing wrong with YouTube.

01:16:03.380 No, no, no.

01:16:03.860 It's just...

01:16:04.540 Look, I used to dig gardens for a living before this.

01:16:06.920 It was much nicer.

01:16:07.820 It's just the government relentlessly didn't leave me alone and very few other people were

01:16:10.880 very good at it.

01:16:11.580 As soon as the problems are solved, I'm going back to putting up fences.

01:16:14.220 It'd be fantastic.

01:16:15.240 Speaking of fences, that's a very good transition.

01:16:17.260 Oh, nice one.

01:16:17.700 The, the, ha ha, Daily Wire, call me.

01:16:21.080 The, you have a alternative, perhaps slightly provocative way that other nations, particularly

01:16:26.260 like the South Koreans or the Japanese that might be technologically inclined, could take

01:16:31.240 up a solution to birth rate collapse and the discontinuity of their culture.

01:16:34.940 You gave a, to, to preface this, an interesting analogy between Chesterton's fence and Chesterton's

01:16:41.800 post.

01:16:42.160 Do you mind drawing the distinction?

01:16:43.720 Yeah.

01:16:44.240 So let's put this together by saying I've been writing for the last five to eight years and

01:16:48.460 teaching on this before that about the coming genetic revolution.

01:16:52.280 So I knew that embryo selection using polygenic scores, I knew that was coming.

01:16:56.640 I knew it would be powerful quickly.

01:16:57.880 I didn't know when, but it's here.

01:17:00.040 I knew gene editing is, is going to follow that.

01:17:02.280 There's no doubt about it.

01:17:03.340 The question is just the timeline.

01:17:05.580 And yeah, I've thought a little bit about both birth rates and the use of this technology.

01:17:09.800 So I have this series and for psychology today, they just contacted me, asked me to write for

01:17:14.980 them.

01:17:15.600 I call it sex and civilization.

01:17:17.280 So start off the first column with the consequences of the birth control pill.

01:17:22.260 Mary Harrington and Louise Perry have talked about this.

01:17:24.780 I am, you know, separating sex from reproduction, many bad effects, maybe some good effects as

01:17:30.200 well.

01:17:31.420 And I kind of explore a bunch of the different issues associated with this.

01:17:35.000 I think what's going to happen and is already starting in Israel and in China is one solution

01:17:40.040 to birth rates falling is governments will subsidize IVF.

01:17:43.420 I'm not saying this is the ideal solution.

01:17:45.660 I think it will naturally follow.

01:17:47.320 I think there might be good reasons for this in some cases.

01:17:50.200 Hungarians have started, if I'm correct, as well.

01:17:52.320 I don't know.

01:17:52.720 Yeah, that's plausible.

01:17:54.160 I think more will do this.

01:17:55.800 And once you have that, it's a short step to, you know, how does IVF work?

01:18:00.180 I guess I should explain it, right?

01:18:01.200 Oh, I actually don't know.

01:18:01.960 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:18:02.440 Good, good.

01:18:02.920 So women are stimulated.

01:18:04.460 It used to be just infertile couples.

01:18:06.020 It was started here in the UK and then it came to the US.

01:18:09.260 They stimulate the production of eggs.

01:18:11.100 And usually, especially if you're young, you can produce a lot of eggs, even 50, 80 eggs,

01:18:14.600 no problem.

01:18:16.500 And if you do multiple rounds, you can do even more.

01:18:19.060 Then you fertilize them, right, with sperm, obviously.

01:18:21.160 And you create these embryos and about day five, they can biopsy the embryo and test

01:18:25.720 it for Down syndrome for single gene disorders.

01:18:29.060 They've been doing that for many years.

01:18:30.720 And if you're going to choose one out of 10, well, you're not going to choose the one with

01:18:34.580 the highest disease risk or with a blindfold on.

01:18:37.260 And so you tend to do the one that doesn't have Down syndrome.

01:18:40.140 Now, this actually, I think, reduces abortion rates for, you know, which is interesting from

01:18:45.180 a Christian standpoint.

01:18:46.280 But it also just forces you into a choice of which one am I going to do?

01:18:50.000 And I think that as IVF itself is subsidized and as more and more companies come online to

01:18:56.780 do embryo selection, people are going to be selecting against disease or intelligence

01:19:01.360 and for personality traits.

01:19:03.840 Now, on to this.

01:19:05.740 So, you know, what I argue is, you know, Chesterton was a vehement opponent of eugenics.

01:19:11.100 But what he meant by eugenics is, of course, state-sponsored, coercive eugenics.

01:19:16.760 And I actually think Christians, I mean, Christians are all over the place on this issue.

01:19:21.300 What would you do if you were choosing among embryos?

01:19:24.220 Most Christians will do the one with a lower disease risk.

01:19:26.720 And in fact, many Christians even abort selectively, which is not what this is, but abort selectively

01:19:33.040 Down's children when they get the diagnosis.

01:19:37.240 Back to embryo selection, I think what Chesterton should have said.

01:19:41.080 So let me say Chesterton's fence.

01:19:42.820 We've all heard this.

01:19:44.440 Basically, it's a metaphor for social reform.

01:19:47.620 He said, imagine some social reformers walking along a road and they see a fence just blocking

01:19:52.940 their path.

01:19:53.700 And he says, well, probably before they tear the fence down, they should ask why it was

01:19:58.860 there and ask what would happen.

01:20:00.620 What would the alternative be if you tore it down and just put up some other structure?

01:20:04.760 And that's a metaphor for obvious reasons.

01:20:06.300 Before you tear down a bunch of laws or an entire civilization, ask what you're going to

01:20:10.600 replace it with or religion, right?

01:20:12.220 This is what Richard Dawkins is asking himself right now.

01:20:15.360 Fuck, what did I do?

01:20:17.560 You know, so that's Chesterton's fence.

01:20:19.680 And it might urge caution when it comes to this technology.

01:20:22.280 And I think that's right.

01:20:23.080 We should be cautious.

01:20:24.920 But Chesterton also wrote 20 years earlier in the book Orthodoxy, he had a metaphor of

01:20:31.780 the post.

01:20:32.720 And the post is a white post, which is subject to a bunch of weather.

01:20:38.200 And, you know, suddenly it's being, you know, it's being weathered, you know, sand is hitting

01:20:41.600 it and it's getting dirty.

01:20:42.800 And eventually the paint is going to peel.

01:20:44.960 And he says, look, even if you just care about preserving the post as it is now, you have

01:20:49.860 to constantly repair it.

01:20:51.120 And the metaphor here is, look, evolution doesn't stop.

01:20:56.680 We've already mentioned that genes and cultures co-evolve.

01:20:59.260 We're very different than we were even 10,000 years ago.

01:21:01.780 Evolution sped up as a result of the industrial, sorry, not the industrial, the agricultural

01:21:07.680 revolution.

01:21:08.220 We got new diseases.

01:21:09.580 Our immunity had to adapt by large numbers of people dying and the ones with the right

01:21:13.380 mutation survived.

01:21:15.360 Probably there's a story.

01:21:16.660 One of my favorite books is A Farewell to Alms, A Natural History of the English Economy

01:21:21.220 by Gregory Clark.

01:21:22.720 He gives a story of gene culture co-evolution over a thousand years here on the island.

01:21:27.380 And this is happening, something Darwin worried about and people like John Tooby have written

01:21:32.740 about who just died.

01:21:33.800 And that is, we are probably accumulating deleterious mutations as a consequence of civilization.

01:21:40.580 Why?

01:21:41.920 Precisely because civilization is so successful.

01:21:44.620 People who have poor eyesight from childhood, not because they read too much like we all do.

01:21:50.260 People who have childhood cancer.

01:21:52.360 People who have all kinds of deleterious mutations.

01:21:54.940 A predisposition to extreme schizophrenia.

01:21:57.360 They would have been taken out by natural selection a long time ago.

01:22:01.500 Now they survive.

01:22:02.840 That's more or less a good thing.

01:22:04.620 You know, we should more, you know, take care of each other and that sort of thing.

01:22:07.720 But a consequence of this has to be that we're deteriorating, that there's kind of

01:22:12.620 dysgenics.

01:22:13.560 Call it what you want.

01:22:14.360 You don't have to use that word because it's loaded.

01:22:16.760 And so what I argue is that Chesterton's post as a kind of metaphor for what's happening

01:22:21.180 actually says probably this technological solution is going to be better than going down the

01:22:27.220 path, which is not Gattaca, but idiocracy, right?

01:22:30.500 We're heading in the direction of idiocracy.

01:22:32.560 There's kind of no way to avoid that unless we do one of two things.

01:22:36.260 We reintroduce the harsh mistress of purifying selection, which is war, disease, and famine.

01:22:44.420 Just taking out people with these kinds of conditions.

01:22:47.460 Or we, or maybe it's an and, unfortunately, we intentionally select for lower mutation loads,

01:22:54.360 for lower disease burdens, and maybe higher intelligence.

01:22:58.120 That's the thesis anyway.

01:22:59.940 So in the last sort of couple of minutes before we move on to the comments, I wanted to contrast

01:23:04.400 this with the two visions because I think some people in our audience, me included, are

01:23:08.880 raising an eyebrow.

01:23:09.600 Well, and you've brushed up against people you've already mentioned, our mutual friends, Mary

01:23:14.660 Harrington and Louise Perry, in their tech skepticism regarding reproduction because Mary

01:23:21.380 Harrington is much more the Chesterton's fence than the Chesterton's post regard.

01:23:27.080 And you do point out in the article that Harrington has an anxiety about technology that you think

01:23:33.540 she should reject.

01:23:34.280 The worry is egalitarian, and that's, the concern is that the luxury belief class will

01:23:39.060 be able to afford this, and that all of the undesirable consequences for not being able

01:23:43.760 to ascribe to this technology will fall upon the lower classes.

01:23:47.520 And you say instead that you're more of a tech trad that endorse the platonic ideals

01:23:50.640 of truth, beauty, and goodness.

01:23:52.420 They embrace the Aristotelian ideal that comes from a life of excellence rather than hedonism,

01:23:56.260 and they understand, following Darwin and Nietzsche, the natural abilities needed to attain

01:23:59.700 a good life are unevenly distributed within and between populations.

01:24:03.060 For this reason, they're willing to allow inequalities to emerge in the service of other transcendent

01:24:07.780 values.

01:24:08.840 I think Louise did foresee this coming with the repaganizing article.

01:24:13.520 I mean, this article uses the analogy of, basically, you can tell a Roman brothel by seeing the infant

01:24:18.680 boy skeletons buried underneath it.

01:24:20.560 And she says that because of the, let's call them actually eugenic practices of abortion, you're

01:24:27.840 not even going to have the discarded material to be able to tell where this happened in the

01:24:32.620 future.

01:24:33.180 So is this a kind of pagan sacrament?

01:24:35.380 I think, basically, what you're envisioning is a technological Roman empire here, which

01:24:38.700 contrasts to the reversion to Catholicism that the likes of Mary are proposing.

01:24:43.180 I think that's right.

01:24:43.900 And I think there's no way around the fact that religions evolve just like cultures do.

01:24:49.340 You see now in America, many churches with, first, they have the BLM sign, they have the

01:24:54.700 progress flag.

01:24:55.620 Like, I worked for a year at a Catholic school, and they were pushing us to go to the border

01:25:02.300 and demand, quote, justice.

01:25:04.040 And, you know, this is common in Catholicism in the United States as it's now interpreted.

01:25:10.000 Love you, Jesuits.

01:25:10.560 So, you know, whatever your views are on that, you know, I think that we need to have, or

01:25:15.360 I at least need to have, because we may disagree here, an alternative positive vision, which

01:25:20.240 is, look, hierarchy isn't bad in and of itself.

01:25:22.920 It's actually necessary and good in some forms.

01:25:25.880 I don't think we should exclude people from the ability to use certain kinds of technologies.

01:25:30.900 But I don't think that if inequalities arise as a byproduct of this, that's necessarily

01:25:35.240 a bad thing.

01:25:36.620 And I will argue even further that if we try to ban these technologies, whether you like

01:25:40.940 them or not, there shall be a black market because people will do whatever it takes for

01:25:45.700 their own children.

01:25:46.820 I know personally for a fact that some very wealthy progressives are publicly denouncing

01:25:52.200 this and privately using it right now.

01:25:54.660 Even if it's not a black market, travel is so easy now.

01:25:58.220 Exactly.

01:25:58.660 There are going to be countries that don't agree, and people will just go there.

01:26:01.320 Precisely.

01:26:01.920 Like hair transplants in Turkey.

01:26:03.380 Or the Ukrainian surrogacy market.

01:26:06.080 And they do this in Cyprus right now.

01:26:07.780 So a lot of IVF clinics are in Cyprus because it's kind of a gray market.

01:26:11.480 It's not clear whether they have to abide by all the European regulations and so on.

01:26:15.380 So the bivalent futures of whether or not liberalism survives would be pretty interesting.

01:26:19.760 Interesting.

01:26:20.420 Right.

01:26:20.840 We're running out of time, so I'm going to try and be quick.

01:26:23.480 Renfan says, there may be white kids doing violence now, but the imported values is the

01:26:27.340 cause.

01:26:27.880 Yes, but the values are here.

01:26:29.640 You can't just deport values, unfortunately.

01:26:31.440 Matt says, could a group of people's lower intelligence not be geographical, but lack

01:26:36.940 of diverse genes because of inbreeding?

01:26:39.160 That is also true.

01:26:40.060 Yes, it is true.

01:26:40.940 In fact, this is a big problem in the Middle East, and this is going to be the best use

01:26:44.160 of embryo selection.

01:26:45.540 Cousin marriage is there.

01:26:46.980 Sibling marriage actually accounts for a fair number of marriages.

01:26:50.180 And so, you know, one way to avoid this is stop marrying your cousin.

01:26:54.820 They should do that.

01:26:55.620 But in the meantime, they should also probably want to select against the diseases that come

01:27:01.540 with that.

01:27:01.980 We have open borders with these countries.

01:27:04.500 Jersey's Angel says, thanks for having Jonathan Anomaly on.

01:27:07.680 Is this the handle we've needed, I think the hand we've needed, to guide real change?

01:27:14.860 As a grandma, I look ahead.

01:27:16.000 I've never found common ground with the pro-choice women, but maybe on this we can.

01:27:20.180 Maybe, but I don't know.

01:27:23.560 There's something about the pro-choice movement that isn't really about the good of the thing.

01:27:33.980 It's not about choice, it's a death cult.

01:27:35.240 I don't want to just call it a death cult.

01:27:37.480 It's an abdication of personal responsibility in aim of maximal personal freedom.

01:27:42.300 Yeah, but there's a real hint of...

01:27:45.440 I'm trying not to think, I'm trying not to be mean, but there's a real hint of like

01:27:52.140 subversive joy about being able to commit abortions.

01:27:55.300 I think this is a new phenomenon that you see with the radical progressives.

01:27:59.240 I don't think this is what motivates most people.

01:28:01.340 No, no, I'm not saying it is.

01:28:02.820 But yeah, I mean, just to push back it.

01:28:04.760 Yeah, no, no.

01:28:05.920 It's kind of like Extinction Rebellion, like they're not the environmentalist movement.

01:28:10.240 Yeah.

01:28:10.540 In the sense that many of us are sensible, want clean water and so on.

01:28:14.780 They're the crazy people who are looking for a fake religion, right?

01:28:17.700 Yeah, but the thing is, they're just so vocal.

01:28:21.700 Yes.

01:28:22.160 And they get such little pushback from the people in the movement who you would think would be,

01:28:27.140 well, look, I just don't want...

01:28:28.340 So you guys are the pushback.

01:28:29.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:28:29.880 I just don't want, you know, women who have been raped by their fathers or something to

01:28:33.180 have to bear their children.

01:28:34.120 Exactly.

01:28:34.680 Okay, I understand.

01:28:35.260 Well, I can understand, you know, whether you agree or not.

01:28:37.200 It's not, I love aborting children, but those people don't get any pushback at all.

01:28:43.240 Yeah, yeah, unfortunately.

01:28:44.060 That's disgusting.

01:28:45.540 Anyway, Jimbo says,

01:28:47.960 Yes, that is undoubtedly an aspect of their racism.

01:29:06.720 The only time the English ethnic group has acknowledged is to hit them with a cudgel of

01:29:09.620 unique historical guilt.

01:29:10.900 Yeah.

01:29:11.880 Well, in fact, we should be proud of the Empire.

01:29:13.040 But George says,

01:29:14.680 The government knows the murder is no threat to them, which is why they are releasing

01:29:17.660 them to scare those who have the potential to rebel.

01:29:20.580 It really, really is this, again, we would say two-tier, but it's...

01:29:24.400 A knockout tyranny.

01:29:25.200 Yeah, it's not their problem, but it is going to be your problem, and they don't care.

01:29:30.320 JJHW says,

01:29:30.960 The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state from Tastus.

01:29:33.480 Probably true.

01:29:34.620 Andrew says,

01:29:35.300 Is there anything the British people can do to get any kind of change, or is it really

01:29:39.280 just going to be survive for the next four years?

01:29:41.340 No, it's five years.

01:29:42.100 But, yeah, it's just going to be, you know, challenge, survive.

01:29:48.600 I mean, what could people do?

01:29:51.660 Protest?

01:29:52.260 No, I mean, don't protest.

01:29:53.660 Don't do that, because it gives them an excuse.

01:29:55.400 Yeah, exactly.

01:29:55.780 Also, no protest ever works unless it's already protesting on behalf of something the regime

01:29:59.620 wants.

01:29:59.920 This is why we're trying to influence legislation and talk to politicians behind the scenes,

01:30:05.780 because this is the only thing you can do at the moment.

01:30:07.360 It's an institutional long march.

01:30:09.000 And also, and I'm not saying abandon the homeland, but I am saying you can do it in

01:30:13.820 exile.

01:30:15.400 Yeah, but we shouldn't abandon the homeland.

01:30:17.720 North FC Zuma says,

01:30:18.820 Carla's on the Dutton train with commenting on the declining IQ of the Labour Party.

01:30:22.140 Have you spoke to Dutton?

01:30:23.440 No.

01:30:24.260 Have you not?

01:30:24.760 I am right about it.

01:30:25.780 You two in a room, man.

01:30:27.180 You'll love it.

01:30:28.020 Ed Dutton is a gem.

01:30:31.020 Michael says,

01:30:31.920 a better way to empty the prisons?

01:30:33.400 Bring back and expand the death penalty.

01:30:34.740 He wants to do it to murderers and pedophiles.

01:30:38.000 Historically, it was just murderers that got the death penalty and traitors.

01:30:41.680 I think we expanded to pedophiles.

01:30:44.400 Yeah.

01:30:47.000 Rope's cheap as a British particular.

01:30:48.260 Yeah, I agree.

01:30:51.220 We probably are about out of time, but I'll go for one more.

01:30:54.640 Lord Nerovar says,

01:30:55.820 Seriously, British friends, invest in self-defence classes.

01:30:58.600 This is going to be necessary going forward.

01:31:00.860 Probably true.

01:31:01.540 I can't arm block a machete, I'm afraid.

01:31:05.640 Thank you very much, Jonathan, for all your contributions.

01:31:07.940 Pleasure to be here.

01:31:08.580 You'll be back on Lad's Hour in half an hour, where Carl will be...

01:31:12.500 Be something a lot more light-hearted.

01:31:13.840 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:15.180 English Sharia, by the sounds of it.

01:31:16.820 Anyway, you'll be able to watch that if you're a Lotus City subscriber.

01:31:19.660 Go do that within the next half an hour to watch it live.

01:31:21.840 Otherwise, we will be back at one o'clock on Monday.

01:31:24.180 Have a good weekend, everyone.

01:31:25.040 Take care, and goodbye.

01:31:25.820 Goodbye.

01:31:31.540 Bye.

01:31:32.540 Bye.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #985

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