The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - UFO Disclosure ｜ Interview with Devon Tracey

00:00:00.400 There's two possibilities, either we're alone in the universe or we're not.

00:00:04.000 Both are equally terrifying.

00:00:05.840 You said you want there to be aliens, you want this to be true.

00:00:09.440 I want to challenge you on that and press and ask you why.

00:00:12.960 Something like 300 people are supposed to have seen this, right?

00:00:16.080 All saw an unidentified aerial phenomenon.

00:00:19.680 There's a lot of BS out there, but there's several cases that are 100% real

00:00:24.800 and we need to grapple with that as adults.

00:00:26.720 Neil deGrasse Tyson, he's going on a tour, he's selling a book,

00:00:29.200 he's grifting off this whole thing and he's his main point is show me the alien so so neil once

00:00:34.560 we provide an alien to him he'll then say okay aliens exist and it's like well then what is the

00:00:39.200 point of you see for me that's a poster from the x-files it's a slogan i want to believe for me i

00:00:46.160 want to know get belief out of here we have the right to to know what is true about this universe

00:00:52.160 i think we could actually solve what is the greatest mystery of our time and i think we're

00:00:57.520 on the path to do that hello and welcome to this interview where we should be talking about

00:01:04.480 various things to do with ufos or uaps all sorts of various things we'll see where the conversation

00:01:09.920 goes i it is an honor and a privilege to be joined by a good friend of mine a returning guest to the

00:01:16.580 show one mr devon tracy aka atheism is unstoppable mr tracy how are you good sir um well i have been

00:01:24.060 knighted since we last spoke so if you could have the sir next time that would be appreciated but

00:01:28.180 i'll take the intro thank you i heard you got a peerage it's lord tracy isn't it did you say i'm

00:01:34.580 on my period it is a pleasure to do business with you to chat about something that has been a passion

00:01:43.520 project of mine i think it's everybody's um responsibility to kind of understand what is

00:01:49.580 happening and what is real that's sort of why i talked about atheism because i care about what is

00:01:55.000 real and i'm here to report something that might disturb some people it might cause a reaction but

00:02:00.660 i'm telling the world that these ufo not not all of them okay let's start there there's a lot of

00:02:05.820 bs out there but there's several cases that are a hundred percent real and we need to grapple with

00:02:11.260 that as adults yeah that's interesting you say that you frame it in that way because that was

00:02:16.200 exactly what i had in mind to sort of start or towards the very beginning of this conversation

00:02:20.780 was sort of set out my stall on where i am with it and it and it's very very similar to what you

00:02:28.560 just said i.e i'm interested in what's real what's true i'm not interested in believing

00:02:35.140 in ufos or aliens or whatever it is i'm not interested in taking anything on faith

00:02:40.420 i'm interested in what's real what's true what we can really prove i mean as a history fan history

00:02:45.600 nerd when you study history that is really what it is trying to find out from the accounts and

00:02:50.880 from archaeological evidence what's what's true what's really true what's real and so although

00:02:56.280 I would love there to be aliens to be us that we've been visited from by people for creatures

00:03:03.120 from another star system I would love that to be true but until there's actual full-blown 100%

00:03:10.960 undeniable slam dunk evidence i'm actually quite uh skeptical or very skeptical i think that's the

00:03:16.720 best best way to be to be very skeptical and skeptical until we've got lots and lots of

00:03:21.500 information having set a proper slam dunk evidence having said all of that i've got many many many

00:03:26.680 questions many questions and i suppose one of the places we're coming from at this point is that

00:03:31.900 even the u.s government the pentagon themselves the white house the fbi are talking about and

00:03:38.520 have been for a while now haven't they uaps they don't like ufo much anymore do they they like uap

00:03:44.000 unidentified aerial phenomenon of which as you said it's just definitely the case it's a matter

00:03:51.080 of record whether they're from another world that's something else we can talk about that later

00:03:54.920 a bit but there are certainly things that are in the air that are unidentified i mean is that sort

00:04:01.560 of where you're coming from that's a low bar so you have intrigued me with a lot of those statements

00:04:08.180 First of all, you talked about, I want to, I don't want to believe.

00:04:12.400 I want to see for me, that's a poster from the X-Files.

00:04:15.360 It's a slogan.

00:04:16.380 I want to believe for me.

00:04:17.840 I want to know.

00:04:18.980 I want to know.

00:04:20.220 Yeah.

00:04:21.380 Get, get belief out of here.

00:04:23.460 And, um, that's a key distinction, but you also took it to another place, which I've

00:04:28.820 tried to inspect within myself.

00:04:30.480 You said you want there to be aliens. 0.98

00:04:32.760 You want this to be true. 0.84

00:04:34.040 I don't even know if I agree with that.

00:04:36.520 and i i want to challenge you on that and pry or press and ask you why why would you want for us

00:04:42.720 to have been visited by aliens well i mean it's a classic thing i think arthur c clark says there's

00:04:47.860 there's two possibilities either we're alone in the universe or we're not both are equally

00:04:52.560 terrifying arthur c clark said i i just think it would be i think it would be wondrous assuming if

00:05:00.340 there are aliens that they're not completely malevolent and evil and seek to annihilate us

00:05:04.300 as long as that's not the case i just think it would be wondrous i think it would be incredible

00:05:09.700 it will blow my mind in a good way as long as they're not here to destroy us i just yeah i don't

00:05:15.760 know why that's my sort of default feeling do you not have one a feeling one way or another

00:05:20.020 no i really find that i'm neutral and i think it helps me because i don't really have a conflict

00:05:25.180 of interest i mean i see the the perils of this and the dangers i don't really necessarily think

00:05:30.900 this is a net good for us first of all it might not be the aliens that are the bad guys we are

00:05:35.780 the bad guys i mean first of all if alien tech is in our hands and our own guys are saying it is

00:05:41.460 uh that would represent the biggest arms race of all time and we have maybe we're in that and have

00:05:48.660 been in that for 70 years and what we do with that tech is kind of the problem so that is where my

00:05:55.360 concern is as, as far as the rest of it, you offer skepticism and a lot of people on the internet,

00:06:01.360 um, they, I am skeptical of a lot of people's skepticism. So I don't think it's good enough

00:06:08.460 to say I'll wait till the proof comes. That's not how it works. That's not how history works. That's

00:06:13.460 not how court cases work. We're talking about reasonable doubt. We're talking about a collection

00:06:18.020 of evidence. And I think we have sufficient evidence to, to generally understand what is

00:06:23.260 happening in reality. And so like Neil deGrasse Tyson, he's going on a tour, he's selling a book,

00:06:28.380 he's grifting off this whole thing. And his main point is show me the alien. So Neil, once we

00:06:33.800 provide an alien to him, he'll then say, okay, aliens exist. And it's like, well, then what is

00:06:38.140 the point of you, Neil? It's like, hey, why even have a murder trial? If I show you a video of the

00:06:42.660 guy murdering someone, then, or no, not even a video, because that could be fake. If you personally

00:06:47.260 witness the guy murdering someone, then you as a juror will convict. And that's the only way you

00:06:52.160 will convict I mean it's a ridiculous standard okay I mean I see where you're coming from I see 0.74

00:06:58.560 where you're coming from it's just for me for me it's one of those things where oh well put it this

00:07:05.140 way for you you're saying that you're personally convinced already uh that what the some of at

00:07:13.780 least some of the UAPs are of an extraterrestrial origin well I would make the immediate point that

00:07:20.460 it doesn't matter. This is like saying, I sucked on Scarlett Johansson's breast. And you say, 0.99

00:07:25.080 which one was it? The left or the right? It's like, it literally doesn't matter.

00:07:29.700 So if it's human made, if it's a combination, alien and human, it represents an advancement

00:07:35.920 of technology that is startling and would catapult humanity into a totally new era and chapter of our

00:07:42.880 story. So it is a revolutionary thing and it's the biggest story on earth. And I grant that some

00:07:49.240 people don't have time there's distractions there's bills to pay there's lives to to live

00:07:53.680 a lot of people are ignorant they just don't know the evidence for some of these cases and it is

00:08:00.400 sullied by the fact that there's so many bad ufo sightings and just trash evidence and claims and 1.00

00:08:07.600 grifters and idiots in this arena so that muddies the water and it's a shame because there are some 0.98

00:08:15.100 that you really need to be aware of yeah i mean one thing i would ask you about then 0.99

00:08:19.180 with the scar johansson analogy um see see i can't i can't agree with you there i would feel like

00:08:27.600 if it is if if some of these things have been manufactured by alien

00:08:32.420 minds and hands and eyes on a planet that's orbiting another star that is profoundly different

00:08:41.300 for me than if it was just built s4 or area 51 no that would make like all the difference in the

00:08:49.420 world to me it would be mind-blowing on an exponentially larger level am i missing sorry

00:08:54.400 am i missing your point slightly i feel like maybe i am yeah well i have to explain it a bit more

00:08:59.680 because yes obviously speaking frankly with you yes it's obviously alien like okay it's obviously

00:09:06.880 The alien. There's a good chance that we are trying to reverse engineer and have our own

00:09:12.340 version of alien tech. So it's probably a little bit from both, but it originates from

00:09:17.380 alien tech for sure. The issue is, the reason I don't want to dive into that is because

00:09:22.300 there is no substantial proof of that claim specifically, even though it's logically,

00:09:28.700 it's going to be that. You're going to find that it is that. But if we find that it's Lockheed

00:09:32.460 martin or making tic-tac ufos or russia or china the story is equally huge and we need to it's an 0.96

00:09:40.320 arresting reality so a lot of the sort of fedora wearing types they they go prove aliens like neil

00:09:47.280 degrasse tyson all this stuff and they they have a thing a sort of hate boner when it comes to

00:09:51.700 aliens as a topic because it's very scary and you know i don't want to dive too much into the

00:09:55.960 stuff. But here's a spoiler. The existence of aliens should negate all Bronze Age claims of

00:10:03.240 religion. It's kind of ridiculous, but I know those people won't let it do that. And they'll

00:10:07.160 just say, God, the answer is God, mysterious ways. He built a universe that has a trillion

00:10:11.720 other life forms. And it's like, oh my God. Okay. It should nullify all of that, but I don't have

00:10:17.800 time for those people. And I know they're going to cope and pivot and just incorporate the BS

00:10:21.540 with more bs uh so i i don't think that the alien conversation is at the forefront i think really

00:10:28.620 what needs to be discussed is the raw facts the data i would not be interested in this if it was

00:10:33.040 not true and it is true and i can i can name for you three ufo sightings that i will put my

00:10:40.220 reputation on not that that holds much weight with the outer world but it does for me that

00:10:46.840 these things actually happened and they are real okay okay well all right let's let's just dive

00:10:52.380 straight in because well before we do just say i'm prepared to accept that there may well we

00:11:01.020 we may well have been visited i mean my position is i don't know i don't know but i'm prepared to

00:11:07.800 accept you see there is a difference right um for example that for example that things bob

00:11:13.220 blizzard saw were manufactured on a planet orbiting another star i don't know for sure i wouldn't bet

00:11:20.640 my reputation on it but i'm prepared to accept it i wouldn't i wouldn't be surprised i wouldn't be

00:11:25.480 all that surprised if that did turn out to be the case let me dissect you you said i don't know

00:11:31.220 i want to investigate what you actually mean by that do you know that there was a french and

00:11:35.120 indian war do you know that oh well okay we're immediately getting into uh almost a philosophical

00:11:41.440 question how do you know anything important how it was a fair question it's a good question

00:11:45.640 but you're already into the realm of how do you know anything right that that's what how can you

00:11:51.660 know anything and sorry go ahead it's degrees of certainty i'm sorry it's it's degrees of certainty

00:11:56.500 so you know that history is you know a confusing place there's we don't have 100 certainty on any

00:12:03.820 historical claim we have very good cases to make incredibly educated guesses or knowledge that

00:12:09.980 we've acquired, but we don't have this a hundred percent standard. We don't have that for murder

00:12:14.880 trials. We don't have it for history. And so for UFOs, you know, people keep saying, well,

00:12:20.040 wait for the, like, give me the crystal clear HD, this and that. They're releasing it.

00:12:24.920 They just released a video HD video of a Tic Tac UFO flying around. That's not the first one. We

00:12:30.600 have three others of that. The Mexican air force has video of these craft. So video, it's kind of

00:12:36.980 shame that our tech has you know ai and all the video editing stuff has made video pointless the

00:12:43.100 same with pictures we're way past that so we're in a new era where the the chessboard has been

00:12:49.380 thrown up into the air and it's like how do we know anything is once again on the table so when

00:12:54.900 you say i don't know do you have a guess do you have a hunch are you do you have a you know beyond

00:13:00.840 a reasonable doubt of a understanding yeah yeah i mean if we take for example bob lazar's story

00:13:08.520 yes for anyone who doesn't know he said out in the desert of nevada in green lake beyond

00:13:13.200 area 51 there's s4 and he saw craft that uh were built by aliens from uh zeta reticuli a star

00:13:22.540 40 light years way um i would say i i've got some questions about bob lazar and his story

00:13:30.420 but it does seem quite convincing personally i would put it uh i don't know if i've got to put

00:13:37.860 an arbitrary number in it i'm sort of between 60 70 maybe as much as 80 convinced by bob lazar's

00:13:44.680 story that's interesting something like something like that yeah that number has been moving not

00:13:50.000 just for you and me but for the public and bob has it's really not because of bob it's it's because

00:13:56.140 of everything else that's happened while Bob has been hanging out with his wife up in Oregon.

00:14:00.820 So he has been confirmed to be correct on a number of things. In the end though, Bob is only one guy

00:14:07.800 and he has one sort of recounting of his life to tell. And whether you trust him or not, it's a big

00:14:15.020 ask. And people go back to the Carl Sagan thing of extraordinary claims require extraordinary

00:14:19.260 evidence. And he's the first guy to tell you, I don't have that evidence yet. Now he does. Ironically,

00:14:23.980 he does have the evidence and he could prove it to the world. He just doesn't care. He literally,

00:14:29.320 imagine someone calling you a liar and a scumbag, millions of people. Like imagine if you're Amanda 1.00

00:14:35.000 Knox or, or Bob Lazar, and you are just so exhausted by it about proving your work history, 0.94

00:14:41.960 your schooling, just, are you a serial chronic liar? He truly does not care to convince you and

00:14:48.360 spend his life convincing random a sea a never-ending sea of people who don't believe him

00:14:54.600 that what happened in his life happened in his life i i personally will say point blank i think

00:15:01.620 bob lazar was telling the truth and this is after years of investigation this is i did not come to

00:15:07.120 this lately yeah no fair enough i'll take for example the account of commander favor and the

00:15:12.280 tic-tac i i'm i'm more like 90 95 convinced of that account at the very least that he believes

00:15:20.660 what he saw i mean i don't know are you laughing because because i'm not saying 100 well i mean

00:15:26.520 what would it take it you know was it the sonar the radar fair question the dozens of eyewitness

00:15:32.660 accounts from like was it the fact that it was in broad daylight for like he chased the thing for

00:15:37.740 five minutes yeah i mean we were following those craft for two weeks uh it's not the only tic tac

00:15:43.220 sighting and the fact that you just mentioned fravor is interesting he had a co-pilot he had

00:15:46.520 an r2d2 behind him he had alex dietrich another pilot as his wing man wing woman and she had a

00:15:53.580 co-pilot there's there's many many people that saw the tic tacs and i you know there really is

00:15:59.240 no other alternative mick west the famous uh ufo debunker he tried to claim that it was seagulls

00:16:06.100 that he had seen a seagull he said there was a 40 foot white propane tank zipping teleporting

00:16:13.220 through space that i stared at and engaged with and he goes yeah it could have been a seagull

00:16:17.540 could have been a could have been a glint like a flare off the sun i mean there is no counter

00:16:23.140 argument to this if you don't understand that tic-tac is real you're not really a serious

00:16:27.060 player in any conversation about ufos i mean as i said i did say up to 95 maybe i'll leave that

00:16:33.380 up to 98 99 no no no 95 is a good number that's i i think i think it's

00:16:39.020 maybe maybe you'll think this is a cop-out or this is weak source or something but i like to

00:16:45.900 leave like a one two percent five percent no i'm not margin because because it's it's possible i

00:16:52.360 don't think i really don't think so but it's possible he's bullshitting yeah i mean the

00:16:59.420 I don't think he is.

00:17:00.780 I really don't think he is, but it's possible, right?

00:17:03.940 When you say he, are you talking about Fravor?

00:17:06.000 Yeah.

00:17:07.040 But then it was captured on a number of different things.

00:17:10.500 He's not even the guy that filmed it.

00:17:12.040 There's totally other humans involved.

00:17:14.080 So the one person doubting one person is a Bob Lazar thing.

00:17:18.640 And that's what limits his believability.

00:17:20.680 Because no matter how many things happen.

00:17:22.780 By the way, Bob Lazar has had dinner with David Fravor.

00:17:25.220 They understand that what they witnessed is the same propulsion.

00:17:28.080 It's a different craft.

00:17:29.420 I would have liked to have been at that table.

00:17:31.440 Very much so.

00:17:32.700 But, I mean, it's a fascinating conversation.

00:17:35.800 Neither of those guys are into UFOs at all.

00:17:38.700 Like, they're super down-to-earth, skeptical-type guys.

00:17:43.360 But people have a thing.

00:17:44.560 There's a weird thing about Bob Lazar, which I think I'm ferreting out,

00:17:47.680 which is I don't think people like him.

00:17:50.700 I think they judge him. 1.00

00:17:54.220 They think he's white trash. 0.98

00:17:55.180 and they don't think that he should be the guy to break the biggest story in human history 1.00

00:18:01.400 you're not worthy of that you're a guy who dated uh messed up women uh you have some petty crimes 0.99

00:18:08.560 that you committed you're kind of a goober uh you know you you ran a brothel like you are you went 0.99

00:18:13.860 to a community college you're not elite you're not the best and brightest among us and anyone 0.86

00:18:19.680 in the science field of any kind they it's almost like they're personally insulted that they didn't

00:18:24.860 get tapped on the shoulder to reverse engineer the UFO. And so Bob takes this weird, it's sort

00:18:31.200 of like a passive aggressive vitriol towards him. And they just simply don't trust him because of

00:18:36.900 that. But we can go over the things that have happened that confirm what Bob's saying is true

00:18:42.580 or is likely to be true. For example, you talk about David Fravor. I mentioned all the other

00:18:47.940 people at the Nimitz encounter that confirms that what happened in 2004 is real. We haven't even

00:18:53.660 mentioned that our military the u.s military in 2023 saw tic-tacs three of them do the exact same

00:19:00.240 stuff and they filmed it and our those guys went and testified in congress under oath that they

00:19:06.880 saw tic-tacs that's the uss jackson i mean so you add that to the story that's not it's the same

00:19:12.400 spot by the way within like a 10 mile square radius of where the other tic-tacs were doing

00:19:16.480 their stuff so add that to the formula that's in the pacific wasn't it off the west coast yeah

00:19:21.580 Yeah. It's right off of San Diego. We got some islands out there, Catalina. There's one called

00:19:27.760 San Guadalupe and one other, San Clemente. And they're just going south. And I don't know why

00:19:33.920 there's so many questions about it, but the evidence is overwhelming about the Tic Tacs.

00:19:39.400 And you got to put a pin in that. You got to say, look, that's a real thing. And I have to now

00:19:45.100 organize my understanding of this universe based on the fact that that was a real thing.

00:19:49.560 and it's not a minor thing to grant and most people don't grant it because they don't have

00:19:54.240 the time to investigate it i think yeah well thunderfoot said it was a bird it's obviously

00:19:58.700 a bird it just looks like it's just like it's moving fast because of the parallax effect it's

00:20:04.220 obviously some sort of seagull or something um thunderfoot he is one of those science guys that

00:20:10.180 would have a grudge that anyone else i mean he i did videos debunking his attempted debunking of

00:20:15.480 who did he was it bob lazar or tic tac i think it was a tic tac yeah yeah yeah no it's it's it's

00:20:23.400 sort of sad and it's not just one sighting we've seen this multiple times they literally last week

00:20:29.040 just released more footage of tic tacs so that phenomenon is real and the answers are it seems to

00:20:35.640 be right we're almost there like we have to have some answers on the tic tac front but what it

00:20:42.480 shows me and it tells me is that instantaneous teleporting-like travel is possible. So this is

00:20:50.100 the big question. And if you want to get into the Fermi, what is it? The riddle, the paradigm?

00:20:55.480 Paradox. Right. We can talk about that because this is the answer to that. Because here's the

00:21:01.540 skeptic. Here's what the skeptic says. I don't want to be caught with my pants down here. So

00:21:07.740 I'll say, look, yes, there are aliens in existence. The universe is so big, there's trillions of

00:21:12.000 stars. Obviously there's some Goldilocks zones. That's the safest, most boring thing ever.

00:21:17.280 You're never going to feel like an ass by saying that. Then they'll say, I just don't think they 0.92

00:21:21.480 visited us because, cut to Neil deGrasse Tyson and other douchebags like that, show me the alien.

00:21:26.560 And the second I can hold the alien and feel it with my own hands, then I'll tell you. And it's

00:21:30.800 like, well, what is the point of you? Why do we need your mind on this? If you're going to tell

00:21:35.940 us something is real once it's proven to be real, like what? Again, it's just, that's not how history

00:21:41.640 works that's not how murder cases work it's the same thing um what was i saying i totally forgot

00:21:47.140 talking about well starting to talk about the fermi paradox yes yes right so so they'll say

00:21:53.340 i just don't think they visited us to which the answer is they have come up with a way to travel

00:21:59.540 through space time that is light years ahead of us so how old is earth four four billion years 0.88

00:22:07.160 something six and how old is the universe is it six i think you think of six million jews in the

00:22:13.340 holocaust i think the sun is six billion years and the earth is similar to that right but the

00:22:18.680 universe is like 13.5 exactly i thought it was four point something the point is if we are life

00:22:25.260 and we invented science 300 years ago and humanity is a few hundred thousand years old depending on

00:22:30.540 when you want to we'll talk to dawkins about it uh this is a very short amount of time the chances

00:22:35.580 that alien life exists is a million percent. The chances that they've had, here's a conservative

00:22:40.680 estimate, a hundred billion years. Sorry, I just overshot it by orders of magnitude. A hundred

00:22:46.500 million years. A hundred million years head start on us. The point is, and what Bob is saying and

00:22:52.800 what all these sightings indicate, is that they have come up with a way to either come up with

00:22:58.540 gravity, manipulate space-time, bend it, wormhole it. This theoretically has always been possible.

00:23:04.220 we always knew this and it's just a total game changer. So the distances are, it's not a moat

00:23:09.720 anymore. It's not an excuse. They can and do travel those distances in a very short amount

00:23:15.960 of time. And we don't understand it. And that's the whole point, but we shouldn't be Dunning-Kruger

00:23:20.680 about it. We should understand that we don't understand it and that they probably do. And

00:23:25.000 it's not a stretch really. This is really scientifically grounded. What do you think

00:23:29.680 about why they haven't shown up or the whole paradox well okay cool where to begin where to

00:23:36.480 begin i mean on on different it depends what mood you catch me in i hope that's not too much for

00:23:41.980 some days so it depends some days i think i'm more i'm more inclined to accept it than others

00:23:52.380 i suppose so well talking about moving faster than than light or at least as fast as light

00:23:58.860 Because

00:24:00.100 Let's go back to Bob Lazar's story

00:24:03.140 Where he said that these

00:24:04.940 Creatures, this craft came from

00:24:08.140 Zeta Reticuli

00:24:09.800 In the Reticulum

00:24:11.460 Constellation in the southern hemisphere

00:24:14.140 That's something like

00:24:15.620 40 light years away

00:24:17.500 Now 40 light years

00:24:19.040 Is an insane

00:24:22.020 Distance

00:24:23.420 Even

00:24:24.020 Alpha Centauri

00:24:27.260 four light years away just four light years away our fastest rockets that takes like 70,000 years

00:24:33.840 for a one-way trip right so 40 light years away it you would have to travel as fast as almost as

00:24:40.380 fast as like if not faster in order to go there and back sort of regularly in any sort of way so

00:24:45.560 okay Bob Lazar says oh no sorry go ahead you said like you're thinking like a primate that was

00:24:52.200 involved on the savannah because we are if you let me finish my my my thought but so so okay

00:24:57.340 so then if bob lazar says that there was this this um drive some sort of drive that was able

00:25:04.680 to manipulate and this is his story isn't it sort of manipulate uh a gravity which means to

00:25:10.640 manipulate space time to the point where you might be able to move a craft effectively instantly

00:25:18.140 across effectively maybe an infinite amount of space right so okay so if you accept that

00:25:27.980 then then okay so so that's the thing if what Bob Lazar says and other people that that's that the

00:25:37.020 physics of that is possible now it is outside our understanding of physics but that doesn't mean

00:25:41.940 it's not real that doesn't mean it's not possible it just means it's outside our current understanding

00:25:47.360 of physics which may well be almost certainly is isn't it extremely primitive so i don't go ahead

00:25:54.780 go i don't think i agree with it's outside of our understanding of physics it's outside it's

00:25:59.640 outside of our current attainment of the materials to do this so we we understand the mechanism we

00:26:07.180 you could easily theorize it i mean just because we can't do it for example when bob lazar made

00:26:11.900 the claim about element 115, there was 109 elements. Now, super heavy elements are hard

00:26:16.980 to keep stable, and they had always theorized about this island of stability, and that eventually,

00:26:22.840 maybe, possibly, if we collide a bunch of protons, we could come up with, but it's only

00:26:27.820 for a microsecond. We don't have this element. We don't have the resources, but we understand

00:26:34.200 the idea. I mean, this is how we built atomic bombs and whatnot.

00:26:37.440 Although we do. It's Muscovium, isn't it? Element 115, Muscovium.

00:26:41.900 But it only lasted for a split second. So it's not, it's an isotope that is put at this. It's like saying, Hey, this Swiss watch I have has actually 500 moving parts in it, individual parts. If I chuck it against a wall, let's see if I can set the record and split it up into 800 parts for a split second.

00:27:02.160 you know it's we are very primitive with what we're doing with it and we cannot harness it

00:27:06.200 but if you could and he has something where you have matter colliding with antimatter and it's

00:27:11.140 creating just an enormous amount of power now we have used this tech or rudimentary versions of it

00:27:17.500 to blow things up you know like bombs this is sort of the same idea the aliens or whatever these

00:27:24.180 things are have figured out a way to utilize this in a propulsion system now that is the science

00:27:30.620 this is our best guess for it. Bob did not reverse engineer this. People say, oh, Bob thinks he has

00:27:39.080 all the answers. He doesn't know. He says, we have no idea. We were throwing golf balls at the

00:27:44.320 reactor to see if they would bounce off the thing. They were making wild guesses. And look, maybe in

00:27:49.940 the last 40 years, they've made advances. Maybe some of those advances are the Tic Tacs. Our Tic

00:27:55.480 tax seem to like to mess with our military i mean you know look he's been right about a multitude of

00:28:03.520 things you mentioned area 51 he was the first one to make that even a known thing to mainstream the

00:28:10.200 notion that we have a secret base in the nevada desert called area 51 he was right or s4 isn't

00:28:17.900 it that's the story it's a well wait but that see that's the second secret military base he has

00:28:23.100 claimed the first one finally got acknowledged by our government in 2013 the second one next to

00:28:28.860 nobody think that's real there is no proof that s4 exists until now until recently i don't know

00:28:34.980 how up to date you are with this but a friend of mine now this guy named scott mitchell he came out

00:28:40.440 with a picture they have a picture of these secret hangars built into the side of a mountain

00:28:47.020 right outside papoose lake which is you know a 15 minute drive 30 minute drive down from area 51

00:28:52.680 which is where he said it was he's been saying this since 1989 there's never been corroborating

00:28:57.840 evidence we have a picture of it now can i say why for example i will leave myself a tiny amount

00:29:04.860 of leeway call it intellectual cowardice if you like i'll leave myself something like a little

00:29:09.300 bit of leeway like i'm prepared to believe bob lazar up to 95 99 but not 100 if i could just

00:29:16.640 say i'd be interested to know what you would say about this that yeah bob lazar has been

00:29:21.720 vindicated over and over and over again i'm absolutely convinced that he's convinced of

00:29:26.640 his own story but there's this one thing about this one thing about bob lazar and i'm not going

00:29:31.180 to go down the route of the legal brothel and the problems he had with his wife but it's this

00:29:35.340 and i i can tell you know bob lazar's story inside out is that quite often very very often

00:29:42.400 the trail ends with bob lazar's story when he talks about that guy he was working with at s

00:29:48.920 he called him barry yeah was it barry a lot of the time when people say okay so how do you know

00:29:54.980 that and it's like barry told me or how can you prove this or that and it's like it was barry

00:29:59.680 it was barry who's barry can't tell you never know never knew his surname it's sort of it's

00:30:05.500 it's a little bit almost too convenient um and again i'm 99 98 on board with the bob la bob

00:30:12.680 as our account and stuff but the way it always ends with barry okay well um first of all they

00:30:18.960 do know his surname it was castillo castillo okay you know more about it than me then please

00:30:24.300 enlighten me they think they've i think they think they found him uh but barry and also dennis so i

00:30:30.820 think they think they found dennis too uh who was his sort of military uh overseer uh but barry yet

00:30:38.240 that was the scientist who was there the physicist who you know was his buddy and they had the buddy

00:30:43.340 system and Bob Lazar was the new young guy he was the guy that they brought in just on a whim

00:30:48.220 take a shot like we've probably been working on this thing for a couple decades and we haven't

00:30:53.620 figured it out so bring this guy in and so I don't know why I mean he did have a buddy and that why

00:31:00.200 is that weird so again I would challenge your idea the premise of your statement is it's strange that

00:31:07.320 he had a guy that he was wearing oh no no no not that that's strange just that the story ends there

00:31:13.460 is that as far as i'm aware until you just told me that we never know who barry was we don't get to

00:31:18.100 interrogate barry we don't need to because all the questions we get uh all the questions you've

00:31:23.020 got for bob lazar he's like i don't know you would have to ask barry but there is no barry to ask

00:31:27.800 it's not that it's weird that he had a buddy system okay well yeah it would be much better

00:31:32.880 for bob and for the believability of the story if another person came out i don't think it would be

00:31:37.240 enough quite frankly but yeah if and bob by the way bob expected barry to come out bob did a

00:31:43.160 podcast area 52 the other day they said i don't know if barry's still alive if he is he should

00:31:48.200 contact me so bob was expecting other people to come out of the floodgates but it just didn't

00:31:53.880 happen because you know bob was taking flack no one believed him you have to understand 1989 no

00:31:59.160 one believed any ufo anything but you know his story is so wacky and crazy the thing is other

00:32:06.480 people confirming bob's story that doesn't work like let me explain to you bob took a video

00:32:12.640 of the ufo in question that we're talking about the sports model there's a video of it okay it's

00:32:18.620 a light in the sky it looks like the game of pong you know it's a 1989 old ass camera filming a dot

00:32:25.800 in the sky but the way it's moving is teleporting around as he described and as his friends

00:32:31.680 described so you have gene huff his lifelong friend some real estate agent out there he's

00:32:36.780 describing this for decades like i went out there he took me out multiple nights wednesday nights

00:32:41.580 three of them john lear as well his ex-wife as well multiple other people eyewitness accounts

00:32:47.180 plus a video and you know so yeah we don't have barry we don't have dennis these guys did not come

00:32:52.720 forward but would it matter would it even matter because we i mean he has a video and he he has

00:33:00.300 other eyewitnesses and most people don't even know that most people haven't even seen the video

00:33:04.740 yeah i suppose it's a good question if barry did come forward and we got to ask him okay all the

00:33:11.720 questions we asked bob and bob just said you'd have to ask barry i don't know what did barry do

00:33:16.620 before what you know apparently there's stories that some scientists tried to cut into this thing

00:33:21.600 and it blew up in some way and killed them and that's why they needed new people like bob lazar

00:33:25.840 to come in like i want all that story from barry like what what research was done after bob lazar

00:33:31.800 left uh you get you get to get to quiz this barry all about that but then would that

00:33:38.520 you're right you're right to ask is would that even answer everything would i be would i be

00:33:44.780 personally would i be comfortable saying okay i'm 100 convinced it was built in a planet orbiting

00:33:51.080 zeta reticuli at that point okay well first of all bob doesn't even state with conviction that

00:33:58.540 it's zeta reticuli so he said i read a briefing that said it was that it might have been

00:34:04.180 misinformation like he goes look i just kind of glanced over it and i was like okay well i don't

00:34:08.700 even know what the hell you're talking about it turns out that everything in his briefing

00:34:11.800 was accurate because he saw it with his own eyes and tested it for months but he's not claiming to

00:34:17.940 you know it's kind of hearsay he's like i read a document but everything in the document about my

00:34:22.680 my project it all checked out uh so yeah it would be great to have barry it'd be great to have a lot

00:34:29.620 of other stuff i mean here's one element element 115 bob took some bob has some not on his person

00:34:37.600 but he knows where it is and he he could theoretically produce this now let's play out

00:34:42.460 that scenario what it could bob do with element 115 he goes on live tv breaks it out who's going

00:34:49.200 to test it who's going to verify it what are the naysayers going to say that's fake that's nothing

00:34:52.660 you know you photoshopped it he showed a w2 from the naval intelligence that they're paying him

00:34:58.840 i'm working for naval intelligence they go now you photoshopped that that was you know that's fake

00:35:03.780 so could could bob hand it over to the government okay that's you'll never see it again you should

00:35:09.200 hand it over to neil degrasse tyson on live tv geraldo rivera like in what way can he prove

00:35:14.380 that he doesn't want to prove it he by the way he's backtracking all this he said look maybe i'm 0.99

00:35:18.800 the asshole he said that on his last rogan appearance he said maybe the world is on a 0.98

00:35:23.320 need-to-know basis if i could do it again i would not whistleblow i would stay in the program 0.99

00:35:28.200 he thinks he made a terrible mistake i've seen him say that i feel a bit sorry for him as well

00:35:33.320 because he obviously just wants to know he said a number of times hasn't he i just really really

00:35:38.240 want to know like us just the same as us I suppose I mean one of the things you say about

00:35:42.420 would if he if he produced some stable element 115 how would how would that be still proof who

00:35:50.720 would test it well there's one thing I've mentioned um there's a guy called uh Dr. Gary

00:35:56.820 Nolan um and he's been uh he's been on a number of a whole number of podcasts he was one interview

00:36:04.740 or so recently was watching uh was talking to uh jordan peterson of all people he's done he's done

00:36:11.340 a fair number of podcasts and he is um a sort of an extremely eminent scientist so very very very

00:36:21.940 eminent uh he works on cancer research and sort of gene therapy and all sorts of things in fact

00:36:26.720 a number of different things and his cv if you like his credentials are are immaculate um he's

00:36:34.060 He's completely and utterly credible, let's say that.

00:36:39.380 And he's done a number of things where,

00:36:43.020 and one of the things he does is a genius or an expert in,

00:36:46.260 is the analysis of materials, right,

00:36:49.360 down to sort of the micron level stuff.

00:36:52.040 And he's got people that claim to have foreign, alien material.

00:36:57.820 um and so one was from the rendlesham forest incident and a couple from other places and

00:37:06.180 he's looked at them done you know proper scientific analysis down to sort of the very

00:37:10.960 you know down to like molecular level and he's found a couple of things that he says are odd

00:37:16.840 it's not necessarily that they definitely originate from an alien planet but they're

00:37:22.860 extremely extremely odd right so if if if uh bob lazar could give his a little bit of his 115

00:37:32.020 to dr gary nolan let him analyze it there there are people out there right there are scientists

00:37:39.600 that would could would well be able to do stuff like that i think that guy isn't he affiliated

00:37:46.440 with like harvard medical or yeah yeah he's like some harvard professor or princeton or something

00:37:51.280 rather yeah yeah yeah i mean you could hand it over to a university or something like that but

00:37:55.400 imagine the arms race so imagine what this is this is the golden goose it is the it's you know

00:38:01.780 have you ever seen the movie the gods must be crazy no no okay it's a it takes place in africa

00:38:07.120 and the whole plot is that this guy is flying in an airplane he's drinking a coke he throws the

00:38:12.180 coke bottle out of the airplane it lands in a tribe of africans and the new addition of this

00:38:18.940 glass bottle revolutionizes their society. It has all these perks. It's a tool. They can 0.96

00:38:25.180 wield it. It becomes very divisive in the tribe. And the whole plot is a guy has to walk to the

00:38:30.840 edge of the earth to throw this Coke bottle off the earth because the gods must be crazy because

00:38:35.100 what is this thing? This is a new piece of tech. It's a great movie. My family had something to

00:38:40.280 do with the making of it. But this is that. This is a new piece of tech. It's not going to be some

00:38:46.140 unpleasant like kumbaya moment it's going to be piranhas going after this thing you know

00:38:51.500 governments there's going to be a i mean it's very dystopian to think of what might already

00:38:58.860 be happening i mean this is the what do you think the military would do if it found a ufo with this

00:39:04.820 tech you know play that play out that scenario it's totally crazy now as far as the the bob

00:39:09.980 lazar stuff in terms of believing him the existence of the secret base in the mountain

00:39:15.720 at S4, that should move the needle for you because no one believes them about that. They don't

00:39:21.920 believe them about the UFOs, about the reactor. They don't believe there is a secret base where

00:39:27.720 he says there is next to a dry lake bed south of Barrier 51. What I'm telling you, and I've done

00:39:32.960 videos on this, is that we now have evidence that makes it damning, proven that there is hangers

00:39:39.940 carved into the side of that mountain. It's not just the photo that was taken in 2020 from a fat

00:39:46.280 pilot who took a photo from 17 miles away. But when you zoomed in and enhanced, you see

00:39:50.760 the structure, you see the hangar doors. What we have done is we have found topography data. So

00:39:57.880 laser beams that you bounce off the surface of the earth, it shows you that at that exact spot

00:40:04.220 where Bob Lazar says they are. There is a man-made parallel lines perpendicular right there in the

00:40:11.140 shape of nine hangers in the exact spot. It's not natural. It is confirming his story. This is not

00:40:16.780 a picture. This is topography. It's literally the elevation difference of the surface of the door

00:40:23.660 because they tried to embed a door into the side of a mountain on like a 30 degree slope. He's been

00:40:27.640 talking about this for 50 years, 40 years. And we now have confirmed that. And it's silently,

00:40:33.120 you know there's a lot of news stories in the world this is a big one because what that shows

00:40:37.680 me is that this man is not lying he cannot be he's not lying about yet another huge part of his story

00:40:44.880 and at what point does it turn the tide for you is the question yeah no as i say i'm largely

00:40:52.340 almost almost entirely convinced but as i say i leave myself that tiny bit of that tiny bit of

00:41:00.800 doubt i don't know why maybe it's just a maybe it's just a psychological maybe it is maybe it

00:41:07.800 is intellectual even sort of emotional cowardice or something i don't know because the argument

00:41:12.700 you make rationally is sort of basically airtight but but but i i just don't i don't know i don't

00:41:23.020 know i just can't i can't abandon i can't abandon the idea that um and until and until i see it

00:41:31.720 with i don't know until i see it with my own two eyeballs i don't know i don't know well first of

00:41:36.880 all i'm not trying to convince you so like i you're allowed to have doubt i have some doubt

00:41:40.380 i mean we don't need to get to 100 by the way we we don't operate when i get on an airplane i don't

00:41:46.540 have 100 certainty that this pilot is not suicidal you know it's in the 90s maybe but it's so we're

00:41:52.000 dealing with percentages all the time here. But one thing I would have you consider

00:41:55.840 is the claims that Bob made about this craft was that it teleported, essentially. It moves so fast

00:42:03.720 that it's here and then it's over here. This is what him and his friends said. This is when he

00:42:08.260 saw it on Wednesday nights. That's how it flew. It moves so fast that it's as if it's blipping

00:42:13.680 through space time. That is a crazy claim. That's a crazy claim to make in 1989. No one would believe

00:42:20.700 it they would say that you're breaking the laws of physics to have done this so this is my analogy

00:42:25.340 on this if he was trying to lie why add that to his story why add that type of motion if anything

00:42:31.580 that makes his story less believable you know just it's so random and wonky that it just happens to

00:42:38.700 be true it's just that's just how life and reality works but this would be like me telling you hey

00:42:44.140 well i just i just ran a four minute mile and you think wow i mean that's pretty fast i know other

00:42:49.900 people have done it but that's you know roger banister was the first to do it and i didn't

00:42:53.500 realize you were into running like that and you know it's a big claim but then i say you know what

00:42:57.660 also i did it while being invisible and i say wait and you go wait what you're breaking the

00:43:04.140 laws of physics you were invisible and you broke the four minute mile so this is like bob saying

00:43:08.700 i am reverse engineering ufos also they teleport through space time now if 28 years later you come

00:43:16.300 to find out that devon can turn invisible and that is established for you you then might circle back

00:43:22.140 and go holy i think he might have run a four minute mile because the craziest part of his

00:43:26.860 story has now been confirmed to be true and why do i say that the tic tac ufos travel in this manner

00:43:33.740 and it's not just the tic tacs we have other accounts of it noteworthy accounts that in the

00:43:38.780 same way you got to put a pin in the tic tacs and say oh my god that's real there's up there's

00:43:43.580 There's something that happened in Australia that also happened, and I don't think anyone

00:43:48.080 really knows about it, and we just hit the 60th anniversary of this UFO sighting.

00:43:53.840 And I used to call the Tic Tac incident the most credible UFO sighting of all time.

00:43:57.780 It might not be.

00:43:59.660 What happened in Westall, the school, it might be the most credible sighting, simply due

00:44:06.000 to the number of people that witnessed it in broad daylight for 20 minutes at 10 in

00:44:10.700 the morning.

00:44:13.020 And so you are an educated man.

00:44:15.480 You are a man who's up to speed with all things.

00:44:17.300 You have an interest in this topic.

00:44:19.180 And I asked you earlier today, do you know about Westall?

00:44:22.440 I don't think most people have any, the foggiest idea about Westall.

00:44:26.520 Tell me what you know about it.

00:44:28.200 Yeah.

00:44:28.420 So it's one of those instances where it's a mass sighting, right?

00:44:32.240 It's a mass sighting.

00:44:34.100 So I think this actually does hit on something we said, I think, right at the very, very

00:44:39.000 beginning or as you said right the very very beginning that there's so many accounts so many

00:44:43.600 sort of crazy almost certainly bullshit accounts from people hundreds thousands of them and we

00:44:50.200 just want to talk about or we're interested in ones that are credible incredible to the point 0.73

00:44:55.460 of being genuinely sort of intriguing or interesting and then ones that as you say put a pin in you just

00:45:00.820 can't discount well this does seem to be one of those because because something like 300 people

00:45:07.700 were supposed to have seen this right it was it was in australia it was over a school

00:45:12.560 and just in the middle of the day right middle of the day and um and loads of teachers and loads

00:45:20.000 of kids again i think it's in the order of 300 people all saw an unidentified aerial phenomenon

00:45:25.920 right or more than one even one teacher came out took a photo of it this is what's on the screen

00:45:30.980 right now and to this to this day because it's like what 60 odd years ago now isn't it to this

00:45:36.680 day all the people that are still alive say things like i don't care what anyone says i know what i

00:45:42.780 saw it wasn't a bloody weather balloon it wasn't a figment of my imagination it wasn't it it was

00:45:49.480 really there now when multiple people hundreds of people all have the same account or very very

00:45:57.800 nearly similar account um and there's no there's there's no reason for them to lie or anything like

00:46:05.520 that um this is when again if you talk about the preponderance of evidence the preponderance of

00:46:11.640 evidence um i can't discount this one i wouldn't discount this one um it's one of those sort of

00:46:18.800 true anomalies as far as i'm concerned you might not like the use of that word particularly but

00:46:22.260 um you know it's not one where you can just say look this guy this guy's it's not a credible

00:46:27.320 witness because eyewitness testimony as i know you know devon but i'm just saying this for the

00:46:31.900 audience eyewitness testimony is a difficult thing it really isn't all that reliable in the

00:46:37.520 grand scheme of things uh quite often your memory lies to you uh quite often you if enough time

00:46:43.460 passes your own memory is all faded and jaded in all sorts of ways uh blah blah blah okay so then

00:46:50.660 you come down to this question of who is or who isn't a credible witness how credible is that

00:46:56.020 eyewitness testimony okay but when you get dozens or hundreds of people claiming to have seen the

00:47:03.360 same thing and they're adamant and a lot of them a lot of them are what a court would call a credible

00:47:08.960 witness if not a highly credible witness and there's and there's a photo of it yeah okay at

00:47:15.980 this point it's very very difficult for me to sort of well i wouldn't deny it i mean well well there

00:47:22.820 i am with that one i mean what do you make of that what are you well it's for you is that is

00:47:27.000 that slam dunk is that that's slam dunk evidence yeah this is something real that happened and

00:47:33.640 i give people the pepsi challenge go research westall ufo and you come back to me you put on

00:47:41.100 your lie detector which we always have it's software on our mind we're always looking for

00:47:45.900 bullshit and you go listen to these people who are now in their 70s and they meet up every year 0.93

00:47:51.300 we just had the 60th anniversary of this thing. They have grandchildren. They have been saying 1.00

00:47:55.880 this constantly for decades. Now, noteworthy, they didn't talk about it at the time. 66,

00:48:02.460 it got squashed. They were not allowed to talk about it. The school, the principal,

00:48:06.300 you'd get detention. You could not talk to the news. The news came, Channel 9 News came and they

00:48:11.280 recorded a segment and there were a couple of articles written about it, but it was a local

00:48:14.420 story and they squashed it. It was saying, look, it's crazy. There's a stigma about this. Do not

00:48:19.680 talk about it. So it took decades. In 2005, a guy, this guy named Shane something, Shane Ryan,

00:48:28.260 he wanted to write a book. And so he decided he made a Yahoo group. So the internet had just

00:48:33.140 come out. So he's like, I'm going to make a group and I want to make a book about this story. I

00:48:37.480 think it might be an urban myth or like an exaggerated tale, but I remember hearing about

00:48:41.900 some UFO to school and it might be fun to write a book about that for kids. And he makes a Yahoo

00:48:47.760 group, in come a flood of witnesses going, no, no, that actually happened. That is real. To date,

00:48:53.700 this man and that community, 142 of the eyewitnesses have come forward and put in their

00:48:58.740 story on record. 142. Do you know what happens if we have 142 eyewitnesses that say, Bo, you killed

00:49:05.040 a cat in the street? You know what happens? You get convicted of killing the cat. Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:10.940 And so it's to the point where I ran up by ChatGPT. If I had over 100 witnesses to a murder,

00:49:16.860 how many would a prosecution feel necessary to bring in to court before it's redundant before

00:49:22.180 it's wasting the court's time how many is it get more than 10 yeah like five to 10 like it's the

00:49:28.040 point is established these people are how do i phrase this there is a cultural divide so if i

00:49:34.580 saw a story and there is a story of a resilient roswell and i'm listening to eyewitness accounts

00:49:39.300 but they're speaking portuguese and i i don't have the same nuance with picking up lies with

00:49:44.880 other languages and other cultures. These are Australians. These are people, these are

00:49:49.400 grandparents now. They're testifying. They are, I don't know how to frame this. You look at it,

00:49:55.780 there's not a single part of you that will think they're lying. They have no motivation to lie.

00:50:01.620 Imagine lying about something that happened 60 years ago and holding onto it. Like just imagine

00:50:06.180 what that would mean in terms of the dishonor, the randomness of that, the pointlessness of that.

00:50:11.520 it's just not part of human nature and when you have 142 witnesses what that tells you is oh god

00:50:18.920 i have to grapple with the fact that this this is something that happened and there is a picture

00:50:23.900 which is of key significance okay for myself perfectly happy to accept all of that but the

00:50:31.140 next question perhaps the more salient question really though is so i've got the can you see the

00:50:35.800 image i've got on the screen i do not but describe it to me okay well it's just it's a picture of the

00:50:41.140 it's the westall photo okay um the next question is though okay that's an unidentified flying

00:50:48.340 object and unidentified aerial phenomenon good now was it manufactured by alien hands

00:50:55.580 on a planet around a different star then well the thing about those craft is that

00:51:02.100 they didn't just hover so a lot of the stories talk about it hovering and it actually landed

00:51:06.600 behind some trees and hung out there for minutes. And students went right up to it. They felt the

00:51:11.880 heat on it. There's eyewitness accounts of all of this. It left an imprint in the grass. The

00:51:16.860 grass was knee high. There was a circle, a little mini crop circle of just the grass had been

00:51:21.920 trampled and burned and singed and it took off. There's 197 accounts, witnesses that saw the

00:51:28.860 grass. Of that 197, 77 also saw the grass. So it's just an enormous amount of evidence that

00:51:36.120 this thing was there physically in the real world. But it also teleported. So it also was

00:51:42.340 jumping around the same way that Bob Lazarus crafted, the same way that Tic Tacs do. These

00:51:47.960 kids in 1966 described what they said. It was zigzagging. It was jumping around. It didn't

00:51:53.800 make sense to them. How do you describe that? Is it even motion or is it teleporting?

00:52:00.380 the guy who took a photo of it the polaroid that was four days prior in a neighboring suburb this

00:52:06.900 guy was 25 years old he was an engineer himself he was visiting his parents house he was in the

00:52:11.160 backyard he was about to finish a camera roll of a polaroid so that he can go out in and process

00:52:16.860 them and so he's about to do a still life of a potted plant or something he feels he sees

00:52:21.440 something hit his eye and it's the sunlight is reflecting off of this craft and it kind of

00:52:26.720 sweeps across his eye line. He looks up, sees this thing, takes a photo of it. It's a crazy

00:52:32.440 photo. It matches the photos or sorry, the drawings that all these people, I would say kids,

00:52:38.280 but they didn't, all that stuff got squashed in the sixties, but they draw what they saw now.

00:52:43.740 And there's many, there's a documentary about this and it matches what is in the Polaroid.

00:52:48.140 Now, after he took that picture, the thing went up, well, it already was up on its side.

00:52:53.180 so it goes up vertical and then it shoots off into out you know into outer space basically

00:52:58.500 now who do you think described crafts when they want to travel large distances they go up

00:53:04.600 vertical rotate and then jump out into outer space who said that

00:53:09.920 uh well i don't know sorry what do you mean bob lazar bob lazar okay sorry sorry bob lazar

00:53:16.320 mentioned this in speeches he's like look i don't it's neither here nor there but when the craft

00:53:21.820 wants to travel long distances, it rolls up on its side. Now, he had no idea that there's 142

00:53:26.860 people that are saying the exact same thing in Westall. These are not kids' kids. I mean,

00:53:31.860 they are kids on an Epstein Island scale, but they're like 10 to 15 years old. These people

00:53:38.240 are now in their 70s. And they're saying, for 20 minutes, we looked at this thing in broad daylight.

00:53:43.720 so this is an arresting case and i invite you to go check it out yourself it is and by the way you

00:53:53.140 talk about disclosure and who's behind this there was a chemistry teacher there a woman

00:53:58.140 there was one camera that the school had in its possession she grabbed it went outside there's

00:54:04.460 many eyewitnesses that saw her snapping photos yeah after the event some government officials

00:54:09.400 and military guys in camo came confiscated that camera and by the way the camo the americans were

00:54:15.420 there like the americans are so dirty and all this so this is not like an australian cover-up

00:54:19.600 the americans are deeply in bed here and are probably culpable who has that camera and who 0.99

00:54:24.620 has that film and would that be disclosed so forget all this light in the sky crap that trump

00:54:30.920 and this administration is giving us give us the photos from westall because somebody has those

00:54:36.140 pics we have the one polaroid we got the one yeah yeah but i mean that to me would be utterly

00:54:42.420 fascinating to ever see those photos but then but so my question was though i'm absolutely prepared

00:54:47.640 to accept it was a real physical thing that was physically there that day in 1966 uh-huh

00:54:52.820 was it manufactured around another star though likely yeah i mean what's the alternative i mean

00:55:02.360 could start talking parallel dimensions, future humans, some civilization underwater. There's

00:55:09.000 all sorts of theories, but each one of them is absolutely crazy to contemplate and then to

00:55:15.400 discuss once we find out. And that's what we're all edging to discover. We need to know.

00:55:22.040 Because think of what it means. Think of the new questions, the new conversations to have.

00:55:27.160 you know what could we do with that tech what should we do that's the real question humans

00:55:33.400 once we get tech we usually use it to blow blow stuff up but what should we do what can we do

00:55:39.820 what are the possibilities and maybe it's too extreme it's too advanced it's too profound of

00:55:45.340 a thing for us to even grapple with i mean we probably mess it up it's like a lenny of mice

00:55:50.760 and men holding a bunny rabbit it's like it's not gonna end yeah i mean maybe i mean i mean the old

00:55:59.520 the old narrative the story is that perhaps as early as like the 40s that the u.s military

00:56:09.920 got their hands on materials a ship even whether it was gifted to us or whether it was crashed or

00:56:19.160 whatever um that was of alien origin and that they've been back engineering it ever since and

00:56:25.840 that bob lazar was absolutely 100 part of all of that and so now the tic-tac and other tic-tac

00:56:34.640 like instances it is it is it it's been made manufactured on earth by human hands

00:56:46.160 but some of the concepts or a lot of the concepts behind it were originally of alien origin but

00:56:53.840 either way we still have been visited by creatures of an advanced science from another star i mean

00:57:01.160 is that what you think is going on here that's a very viable theory and there's a lot of evidence

00:57:08.120 to support that okay i don't think the 40s we seem to say that the 40s are the starting point

00:57:13.960 just because of Roswell, Roswell has

00:57:16.380 soaked up a lot of the

00:57:17.920 oxygen in the room. There were other things that

00:57:20.340 happened in the 40s. The original

00:57:22.220 flying saucer, do you know where that comes from?

00:57:25.220 No, I don't know exactly

00:57:26.300 what you mean. The phrase, the phrase

00:57:28.380 flying saucer, it's actually a

00:57:30.200 misconstrued, the guy

00:57:32.420 was trying to explain the motion

00:57:33.740 of some UFOs that he saw.

00:57:36.240 And this took place in 1947.

00:57:38.600 So the same, when was Roswell?

00:57:40.300 Like 48, 47? I thought it was 47.

00:57:42.720 Yeah, 47, isn't it?

00:57:43.960 Yeah. So there's a guy named Kenneth Arnold who was flying in a Cessna. He was a businessman,

00:57:49.420 successful. He was flying in Oregon, the Northwest. And I think he was doing something weird. He was

00:57:54.980 looking for a crashed ship of some kind, a plane. There was a reward. And the guy had money. He was

00:58:01.060 just out there flying. He came across and saw nine craft. And they were shaped like a crescent.

00:58:09.180 Very strange. And he said they were flying in a formation, but the way they were flying was

00:58:13.860 very odd. And they were jumping. They were like kind of teleporting forward, very glitchy. And

00:58:20.580 the way he described it was they said, they flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the

00:58:25.680 water. Now that got reported as man sees flying saucers. And it wasn't the case at all. They were

00:58:33.560 not shaped like saucers. It's a very odd thing to say because number one, no one throws saucers,

00:58:39.660 skip saucers across water. No one would do that. He should have said they flew like a stone would

00:58:46.540 if you skipped it across water. So if you skip a stone, you see the ripple, then you see another

00:58:51.300 ripple, another ripple. And it's going so fast that all your eyes track are the ripples. And so

00:58:55.880 it's leaping forward like that. He was describing instantaneous motion. So the very first flying

00:59:01.720 saucer case in the forties was the instantaneous motion that now we know is not such a bizarre

00:59:07.400 thing because we've seen it time and time again where it's been reported just like when bob lazar

00:59:12.980 says uh we have a reverse engineering program of alien craft and he says that in 89 and people

00:59:18.800 like yeah whatever dude go back to your brothel then smash cut to our own intelligence officers

00:59:25.040 david grush lou elizondo in front of congress saying we are reverse engineering alien craft 0.71

00:59:31.100 they're saying that and then bob cut back to bob he says yeah i told you so i've been telling you

00:59:37.280 this. So his claim of instantaneous motion doesn't seem so weird. And neither does the claim about a

00:59:43.920 reverse engineering program. And now neither does the claim that there are secret hangers carved

00:59:47.920 into the side of that mountain at Papaloos Lake. So we're running out of reasons to doubt this guy.

00:59:53.640 But if you don't want to bottleneck it through the prism of Bob Lazar and one human being,

00:59:59.060 go to Westall. Put your brain on autopilot and go research Westall UFO and write me your results.

01:00:06.420 because i'm telling you that thing very much happened and we need to factor that in to how

01:00:12.760 we think about everything else well there is a number a number of instances like like westall

01:00:17.880 or like yes uh commander favors tic-tac where even even if i'm trying i don't see any reasonable

01:00:27.620 rational way to say that's nothing that that that was a figment of their imagination that was i can

01:00:34.960 just dismiss that as something else as as a goose as a a weather balloon or anything now i've got

01:00:42.580 i've got nothing i've got nothing even if i'm actively trying there's a number of those though

01:00:46.560 aren't there like i'm just looking up a picture of the 1952 washington dc ufo image you must be

01:00:54.760 aware of that one quite famous one from 1952 um where there was just a photograph taken of

01:01:01.520 they are unidentified flying objects

01:01:04.220 whether they're manufactured

01:01:06.000 on a planet that's

01:01:08.240 sorting another star, who knows

01:01:10.040 but there's certainly unidentified aerial phenomenon

01:01:12.320 completely unidentified to this day

01:01:14.620 there's

01:01:16.560 that

01:01:17.160 Scottish

01:01:19.060 we were DMing about it earlier

01:01:22.320 that Scottish one from 1980

01:01:24.100 what was it called? Calv, that's it

01:01:26.640 let me just get up a picture of that

01:01:28.400 1980

01:01:29.440 like there's a photograph of that isn't there my only skepticism on the white house one is like

01:01:35.600 yes it is surreal and weird that we're about to have a ufc event at the white house but

01:01:39.780 the fact that ufos would go to the white house is such a man-made construct it's so right out

01:01:45.820 of hollywood well yeah that i i instantly doubt the fact that because it was there you know it's

01:01:51.040 just well i mean it's just the experts have looked at that photo and said you know we can't rule it

01:01:57.140 out i'm just looking at the picture of the calvine calvin uh photograph and again for anyone who

01:02:04.040 might not have ever heard of it um or we'll put it up in post-production one way or another um

01:02:08.720 yeah experts that the smaller object there is uh definitely 100 a terrestrial fast jet we know that

01:02:15.960 the smaller object there is actually just a human fast jet that was scrambled the bigger

01:02:20.540 sort of diamond-ish shaped slightly flattened diamond shaped object is an unidentified aerial

01:02:27.560 phenomenon and all experts and photography experts this is from 1918 like scotland just

01:02:32.920 can't explain they can't rule it out as a glitch or a fake in any way well okay so there's a few

01:02:39.780 problems with it number one the two scottish guys who were taking a walk after work they never came

01:02:45.320 forward so we don't know the guys who shot it which is a problem that's just a straight up

01:02:50.360 problem yeah then it did get there was a cover-up with this so there is an interesting backstory

01:02:54.940 and very much like watergate or it it's always the lies in the cover-up that it generates a lot

01:03:02.060 of smoke so the cover-up at westall is scandalous the cover-up of america and area 51 it's so

01:03:09.560 telling. I mean, so it's real, people are very sloppy with it, but the skeptics think there is

01:03:15.980 a theory that that Calvin thing is actually a rock sticking out of some water. And so we're right

01:03:21.580 back to the Loch Ness monster with these Scottish claims. And that the reason why it looks like a

01:03:26.520 diamond is because it's a mirrored reflection of the top of it, which then you say, well,

01:03:30.480 why is the airplane not, what is that, a twig? Like, why is that not reflecting in the wall

01:03:34.920 in the same way that's not a symmetrical thing and and to which i'd say that's a good point

01:03:39.580 also do you see the fence yeah with the little uh sheep wolf kind of stuck on it in certain parts

01:03:47.040 barbed wire i don't think and maybe you're from a rural background but i don't think you put up

01:03:53.060 barbed wire fences in front of a lake like the lake is the fence the sheep are not going to go

01:03:58.500 swimming they're not going to run for the border so i just don't think you do that and so therefore

01:04:04.580 i don't think it is water and that's sort of my thought yeah well i mean on this one i personally

01:04:10.500 um believe or uh are convinced by the fact that i mean apparently photography experts have

01:04:22.620 of gone over and over and over and this one and tried to show to illustrate beyond a doubt

01:04:32.100 that it's there's fakery going on in one way or another and apparently they haven't

01:04:39.320 on this one apparently they've they've come to the conclusion that we don't know what it is

01:04:43.840 we're not saying it was manufactured by uh alien hands and aliens minds around another star but

01:04:49.320 we're telling you it's not a fake photo one way or another it's not a stone on a lake it's not just

01:04:55.160 something that someone who knows very knows photography very very well was able to manipulate

01:05:01.060 the negative or anything like that it seems to have been an object that actually was in the sky

01:05:05.000 that day well i mean it could be a non-fake photo and still be a reflection in the water

01:05:09.920 but you know sort of an optical illusion but the problem is it's one photo and you know a picture

01:05:16.380 is worth a thousand words a video is worth a billion words and also the motion so half the

01:05:21.520 time when you get these ufo leaks and it's a thing that's floating and it's not changing direction

01:05:25.720 and it's not doing instantaneous anything it yeah maybe it is a balloon maybe it is something

01:05:30.800 floating a bird or whatever um it's really the motion that we are seeking and that's going to

01:05:37.880 be the smoking gun and you know we are really in a unique position where recording stuff with

01:05:44.680 cameras and video used to mean everything and now it means next to nothing and we are inundated you

01:05:50.420 should see my timeline i get ufo stuff presented all the time i just my brain has entered a new

01:05:55.620 zone where i just don't trust or believe anything you know it's it's so interesting because that was

01:06:01.760 not what it was back in the day i mean in our lifetimes it wasn't like that at all and so

01:06:07.340 eyewitness accounts even though you mentioned that they aren't great and they have their flaws

01:06:13.500 they actually have been empowered with more relevance and importance now okay the credibility

01:06:19.480 of multiple accounts is is probably better than video now well yeah it's difficult to

01:06:26.540 to believe anything i've seen a number of ai generated things where i've been for at least

01:06:31.840 for a while at least for a few moments if not longer i'm like okay wow that's an amazing new

01:06:36.560 thing oh no it was ai but it was for a while it was absolutely convincing um so towards the

01:06:42.740 beginning of the conversation you said you said there was at least three examples of which west

01:06:48.140 was one tell me the other two well i mean my claim right now i'm i'm willing to put my foot

01:06:56.880 down on west all the three ufos that were down there on the tic tac of 2004 but if you want to

01:07:04.500 go more than that there's 2023 and there's there's other ones the mexicans have seen them

01:07:09.420 uh and then also bob lazar i'm saying bob is a true asset he's truly telling the truth the whole

01:07:16.740 time and uh there is another one though there is some an event from 1994 which is very similar to

01:07:21.980 westall which happened in zimbabwe okay and it's slightly younger kids and it's a very trippy story

01:07:29.580 but it also shares a lot of the things that westall has there were 62 kids that had an

01:07:36.740 encounter in broad daylight for multiple minutes 5 10 minutes 15 they lost track of time where it's

01:07:43.140 even crazier what happened there, but they all got interviewed on the spot. So there's footage

01:07:47.820 of those kids getting interviewed about what they saw, which was a couple of UFO crafts landed,

01:07:54.240 aliens got out of them. One of the aliens was standing on the craft, walked towards them,

01:08:01.120 locked eyes with them, sent telepathic messages to them. Now, all of that is noteworthy. Those

01:08:08.520 are claims that are distinct from Tic Tac and Westall. No one's even talking about aliens with

01:08:12.960 pose. These kids saw aliens and 62 of them did. And like Westall, they're still saying the same

01:08:19.160 thing. And they're all middle-aged now. So what is that about? Also, those crafts moved

01:08:26.220 instantaneously. So they would teleport and dart around. And when they said that in 94,

01:08:31.440 that was a ridiculous claim. That's like me saying I ran the four-minute mile while invisible.

01:08:35.640 They didn't know about Bob Lazar. They didn't know about Westall. No one did.

01:08:38.720 so there is no confirmation to say it moved like that it actually makes people think you're crazy

01:08:45.100 and also they said not only did the crafts move like that the aliens moved in that manner first

01:08:50.300 he's there boom he's over here so whatever tech they had to manipulate time or gravity or sorry

01:08:56.180 space whatever same thing it's all confusing they're using it on their suits so that's how

01:09:01.480 they personally traveled and you know it's a it's a very gripping tale and i get why people would

01:09:08.780 dismiss it the problem is it's harder to dismiss once you have revisited the pins you've put in

01:09:14.840 the pin you put in tic-tac attack you put in tic-tac the the westall event and the bob was

01:09:20.680 our stuff if it's like a reverse cascading uh tsunami of credibility going backwards where oh

01:09:28.640 my god we got to revisit some of this stuff knowing what we know now and if you if you

01:09:33.160 aren't comfortable saying that you just haven't done the research on those events because once

01:09:38.740 you do your brain will automatically reassess and revisit prior claims and you'll start looking for

01:09:45.200 patterns and now it's not so crazy what those kids in zimbabwe were saying at all okay so let's

01:09:50.320 revisit the tic tac thing because for me i agree with you i can't dismiss it so so real quick for

01:09:56.420 anyone who might never have heard of it um off the west coast of america back in the earlier 2000s

01:10:02.740 some fast jet pilots more than one fast jet pilot saw a uap but at the tic-tac the so-called tic-tac

01:10:09.000 and they watched it for quite a while very very credible eyewitness accounts but it was also

01:10:13.460 captured on at least two or is it even three different um electronic like what was it a radar

01:10:21.000 uh radar like visual visual optical cameras and something else as well right the the FLIR camera

01:10:29.400 is the targeting camera on these jets it's that it was the state of the art it's the best thing

01:10:33.240 we have right actually they just updated their radar so we were in the the ramp up to war in

01:10:38.420 Iraq it's 2004 and they're doing training exercises off the coast of San Diego and it's you didn't do

01:10:44.900 it justice when you framed it it's not one UAP we're talking about dozens and for weeks they're

01:10:50.240 tracking these things and they're floating at like 20,000 feet in the air. And they're going,

01:10:54.880 what the hell are those? All right. They're not messing with us. So like we have other stuff to

01:10:58.040 do, but what are those? So eventually Kevin Day, this one radar tech said, you know what,

01:11:03.660 let's send our guys over to check those out. And so he just pinpointed one of them at random,

01:11:08.700 the one that was closest. And he said, let's send our jets over there. And it was David Fravor who

01:11:14.540 had, you know, it was, he was the commander. We're talking 20 years in the service. This is

01:11:18.420 literally a top gun pilot so we send tom cruise out there with his uh wing wingman a woman named

01:11:25.720 uh alex dietrich she was young she was she just didn't want to crash the jet uh but they flew out

01:11:32.000 there and they saw some water uh that was roiling it was a white water like it looked like there was

01:11:40.000 a jumbo jet submerged and we're talking about crystal clear southern california sky calm waters

01:11:46.480 again just broad daylight and they're looking down at this thing in the water they have no

01:11:51.900 idea what it is it has a t-shaped so it looks like a jumbo jet and as they're looking down there they

01:11:57.260 see a tic-tac and it's breaking the laws of physics or our understanding of physics it's

01:12:03.480 going left right up down like north south east west super super fast and it's glitching their

01:12:10.620 brains they don't even understand it and they're talking to each other on their comms

01:12:13.620 going what the hell is that and they're dropping f-bombs the whole thing and so david fravor being

01:12:19.000 the tom cruise guy that he is he goes i'm going to go down and check it out so he dives down to

01:12:24.480 get within half a mile of this thing what is he in an f-18 isn't he yeah yeah the top of the line

01:12:29.740 stuff he goes down there and starts a little dogfight the tic-tac rises up and is mirroring

01:12:35.200 his spiral descent it's coming up and he's about to cut across its path and he just described this

01:12:42.840 on joe rogan i mean the guy is he by the way they describe this years later so you realize this

01:12:49.020 account even in the 21st century there's a stigma and none of these people want to be the crazy ufo

01:12:54.520 alien people and so it took accidentally the new york times leaks this story in 2017 they put an

01:13:01.680 article out and these people make the rounds on podcasts in 2020 2021 begrudgingly 15 years later

01:13:08.820 they're like okay fine i'll tell you about that anyway we have it on video we have it on radar

01:13:12.700 it was jamming their radars i don't know how many other forms of uh you know recording you need but

01:13:21.440 this is our state-of-the-art top guys perfect credibility perfect resume these guys didn't

01:13:27.340 run a brothel these guys aren't lying about their college degrees yeah they're completely

01:13:32.760 trustworthy human beings and they saw the thing then they come back it it teleports away by the

01:13:37.980 way and it says it took off like it was shot out of a gun so instantaneously just funk gone the

01:13:43.560 second he got right up on it they are have no idea what to make of it they tell the next guy the next

01:13:49.260 crew that's going to go out hey we saw this tic-tacs over there go go film it go try to find

01:13:54.320 it and he did and he filmed it and then cut to thunderfoot saying it's a you know it's it's a

01:14:00.860 plane it's 100 not a plane it's a goose it's just parallax effect of making it appear that it's

01:14:06.860 moving very fast it's just a goose oh my god parallax and weather balloons can just get you

01:14:10.900 everywhere in life apparently i mean for me the tic-tac is i i believe the accounts of

01:14:17.040 commander fravor it's about as credible as an eyewitness as you can get isn't it correct um

01:14:23.240 but the fact that it's covered it's captured on more than one sort of digital and optical

01:14:29.360 um military observation stuff that for me for me you can't there isn't there isn't really any

01:14:38.000 reasonable way to um to dismiss that it would be unreasonable to say that's that's just all

01:14:45.740 liars and nonsense yeah and all of these guys they don't jump to conclusions they don't say 0.53

01:14:50.220 oh little green man aliens they don't know any of that they're just saying look this is what 0.88

01:14:53.900 happened like i'm not here it's above my pay grade to tell you what it all means or how it works

01:14:59.560 like some people i think thunder thunderfoot said commander favor is just looking for uh notoriety

01:15:06.040 he just a million percent no yeah i don't buy that i really don't buy that that he's got a very

01:15:12.100 very boring life he's a very small sad man and he's made up a story effectively effective they're

01:15:18.480 not thunderfoot's words but effectively and he's just looking for um something to become famous

01:15:23.700 to become well-known and be the center of attention i don't i don't buy that i really don't buy that

01:15:29.900 a totally unfair attempted character assassination of david fravor good luck with that you're never

01:15:34.380 going to deny that guy's credibility but it's it's so much more than fravor so there's multiple

01:15:39.420 people on the limits in the princeton who saw this both on radar and they saw the flare footage the

01:15:44.500 high def flare footage which is not the version we have there was a high def version that went on the

01:15:50.100 land that they all saw and they were going holy crap how's this thing doing what it's doing

01:15:54.580 there was also binoculars uh these they call it the the big eyes i guess on the deck of the ship

01:16:00.680 so you get you get out on the deck multiple witnesses looked at these things on the horizon

01:16:05.680 doing that motion doing that quick jutting around teleporting stuff so they've all come forward and

01:16:12.360 it's dozens and dozens of people and you know it's an overwhelmingly compelling case and and

01:16:19.720 what it means, what it implies, where to go from there. Because we could talk about what we still

01:16:26.820 don't know about those. We don't know how it does what it does and who's behind it and why. And

01:16:31.400 there's a million things we don't know. But what we do know is it happened and it's real and it's

01:16:38.240 possible. So now what are the other questions to ask? Knowing that we know that, what were those

01:16:45.360 kids in australia talking about right they said it instantaneously okay well yeah that's a thing

01:16:50.620 okay that's a thing you're quite right what it implies if you accept that the tic-tac was real

01:16:55.540 that commander favor and all the electronic surveillance stuff off the west coast that day

01:17:01.880 assuming you you accept that as real what it implies as you say is something incredible is

01:17:12.580 it quite remarkable that that at the very least at the very least if it doesn't come from again

01:17:19.960 alien minds and alien hands and eyes that manufacture something around another star

01:17:25.060 at the very very least the u.s military secret military at s4 or area 51 are leaps

01:17:33.340 leaps ahead of anything they've ever let us be known yes that they are capable of at the very

01:17:40.920 very least that and how dare they what gives them the right to hoard this tech why who voted them

01:17:48.660 into that position you know forget that you are not better than us you have no rights to this tech

01:17:53.900 and it's not national security bullshit get that this is well beyond nation states this is beyond

01:17:59.540 a human i mean this is we have the right to to know what is true about this universe and about

01:18:06.180 that tech which is on display now there is a case to be made that it is our military that those

01:18:10.980 tic tacs are us one of the reasons after this tic tac left fravor and his his fellow pilot

01:18:17.520 they get a call on their radar i guess they don't call it their the channels are always open and it

01:18:22.880 says hey commander guess where it is now he says oh it's at your cap point yeah which is a rendezvous

01:18:29.560 point and i was hyper vigilant it's latitude longitude and elevation this tic tac went to

01:18:37.880 fravor's cap point now there's multiple groups of jets out there this is the the something called

01:18:42.760 the aces the uh the there's little names they all had you know it really is like top gun in fact

01:18:49.480 david fravor's call sign was sex they called him david sex fravor um so this tic tac went to their

01:18:56.920 cap point which is their beginning point for the training sortie in air in mid-air it's where you

01:19:04.800 rendezvous where you just wait for the other guys before you start your training exercise that's like

01:19:09.380 it was 60 miles away it was it was there instantaneously now granted it could have been a

01:19:13.340 different tic tac because there was multiples but we know that it moves instantaneously why on earth

01:19:18.120 would an alien know to go there why would they do that this seems like a frat bro joke that one part

01:19:25.620 of our military is playing on another part of our military now what did bob lazar say in the

01:19:29.960 hangar that housed the sports model ufo he saw a poster like a professionally made poster on the

01:19:35.420 wall where of the craft floating off the desert floor and it said they're here and it was like a 0.95

01:19:42.380 joke that they're memeing about this shit they probably have had this thing for decades the 0.96

01:19:47.480 military is a bunch of boys with toys yeah make no mistake and those are the type of guys that 0.98

01:19:53.600 have a sense of humor to mess with other portions of our military and like they asked fravor they

01:20:00.400 said congress i forget the congresswoman but she's like uh do you think this poses a threat to our

01:20:05.680 national security he left he's like hell yeah it does kidding me this makes our military totally

01:20:10.640 redundant this thing could go wherever we haven't we're not even in the same ballpark here in terms

01:20:17.280 of tech so this this is a game changer militarily in terms of power in terms of you know listen to

01:20:25.200 bob lazar talk about what this controlling gravity what it could do i mean forget what he

01:20:31.360 the second you start talking about time travel these these are time machines you're aware when

01:20:36.800 we're talking about space and time that's usually the exit point for most people's brains when they

01:20:41.200 when they say space time people like okay i'm out gonna go take a walk oh yeah but but it is true

01:20:47.620 that you're not going to travel in time like you know uh what's his name um back back to the future

01:20:53.740 you're not going to go back to the 60s and like have sex with your mother or anything nothing that 0.77

01:20:57.760 exciting you're gonna but you can control manipulate time in some way uh bob lazar described

01:21:04.620 his reactor they pointed one of these gravity amplifiers at a candle a flickering candle the

01:21:09.880 candles stopped it just froze and they were like well that's something we're watching they have no

01:21:16.960 idea what is happening but clearly it is affecting time well the idea that if you can move as fast as

01:21:22.920 light like like a proton an actual proton that a proton doesn't experience time for a proton's

01:21:33.080 time stands still effectively it could travel across the galaxy travel across the universe

01:21:38.360 across the cosmos for billions of years but from the point of view of the of the proton

01:21:43.040 no time has passed right so that that's mind-blowing isn't it but so if you could

01:21:49.440 i mean if you could manipulate space-time gravity space-time to the point where you move as fast as

01:21:56.580 light then you would move quite literally instantaneously you'd move from one point to

01:22:02.800 another and no time has passed not a very small amount of time no no time has passed now you're

01:22:08.080 not fast you're not traveling as fast as a bullet you're not traveling a million times as fast as a

01:22:13.160 bullet you're traveling instantaneously literally no time whatsoever has passed between you being

01:22:19.900 at those two different points we have i mean it's mind-blowing isn't it if if it's real if it's true

01:22:24.920 like we are um made of this earth so we we're familiar with the rules that we see around us so

01:22:32.860 gravity we take as the norm we don't think of you know but if you actually get down to it

01:22:39.700 they might have decoded the fabric of the universe which is not a minor thing to have done

01:22:45.040 yeah and uh we don't even understand it in fact bob we keep saying the word gravity that's a

01:22:50.440 placeholder we have no idea what this power is what this force is it doesn't act like gravity

01:22:55.700 there's certain bob has mentioned many times that if it were to be gravity it would do this and it's

01:23:01.840 not so i don't you know they say anti-gravity and that's a cute little thing but it's we don't have

01:23:09.380 the words to describe this because we didn't originate it we didn't engineer it we don't

01:23:14.140 really understand the mechanism of what it's doing so it could just be the next level that

01:23:20.100 we need to ascend to and it's you know it's it really is an interesting i mean talk about sci-fi

01:23:27.080 sci-fi needs to move ahead we got to get way past what they're doing on star trek and we got to start

01:23:31.300 actually contemplating what this could mean if we don't kill ourselves before before any of it

01:23:37.480 because i you know think of the war games do you remember like what what would we do if i just told

01:23:43.820 you when we invented the car how do we weaponize it when we invented the boat the u-boat when we

01:23:48.660 invented the blimp the airplane the hydrogen or splitting an atom like all of those things we

01:23:54.440 just immediately killed ourselves well and weaponized maybe that does make some sense in

01:24:00.120 Say the United States

01:24:02.140 Military and or

01:24:04.280 Intelligent services or whatever

01:24:05.540 Have got this stuff

01:24:07.280 Reverse engineered, whatever, whatever they've done

01:24:09.920 Whatever they've got

01:24:10.500 And it's so

01:24:12.480 It's so sort of

01:24:16.780 What's the word

01:24:20.000 It's so ring-fenced

01:24:21.640 That even people in the military

01:24:24.580 Don't really know about it

01:24:25.700 You end up even with congressmen and senators

01:24:28.380 that are on the intelligence committees don't know about it right okay it's that secret

01:24:34.500 and their calculation is exactly that that if the russians or the chinese or whoever

01:24:41.040 if they also got this

01:24:43.220 we're on we're on a crash course to going to war with them and us over this it has to be we their

01:24:53.480 calculation is maybe that we have to have a complete monopoly on it and a secret one because

01:24:59.200 otherwise it would end up with a world conflict and maybe that makes a string well that makes

01:25:05.060 perfect sense but it reminds me of the lyric from sting about russians he says i hope the russians

01:25:09.800 love their children too so i maybe they're not hell-bent on destroying the world or the chinese 0.97

01:25:15.280 it's kind of a boogeyman i think america america is so dirty with all this man like it's so gotta 0.99

01:25:20.720 to be America. But it reminds me of Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark, 0.96

01:25:25.960 swap out that Ark for this UFO. It's the exact same thing. In fact, Steven Spielberg did that

01:25:31.560 20 years later with the sequel where they just talked about UFOs and aliens. But by the way,

01:25:37.140 the Lost Ark of the Covenant, they stored it at Area 51 in that movie series. So it all comes

01:25:44.300 together. Steven Spielberg's putting out a movie, Disclosure Day, which is going to be highly

01:25:48.040 relevant to this apparently it's an amazing movie but think of think of what those guys were about

01:25:53.440 we're talking world war ii we're talking 1940s most of that indiana jones stuff 30s even looking

01:25:59.580 for supernatural magical uh artifacts and then why why do you think the nazis won the ark of the

01:26:05.180 covenant they want they wanted it to wield its power or the holy grail i mean it's raw human

01:26:11.000 greed it's fear it's power it's everything it's everything i mean this is the track record this

01:26:16.980 is our mo this is what we would do this is by the way what eisenhower warned us about in his closing

01:26:22.120 remarks he said beware of the military industrial complex what do you think he was talking about

01:26:26.840 he's talking about this he's talking about those guys already exist the presidents don't know about

01:26:32.520 it obama had the nerve to come out there and say there is no secret underground military base at 0.89

01:26:38.480 area 51 that where we're storing ufos or aliens and it's like bitch area 51 is a secret military 0.72

01:26:45.540 base what are you talking about there already is a conspiracy like and you're wrong about the 0.72

01:26:50.760 second military base there s4 and i thought he came out and he said there are aliens didn't he

01:26:56.380 well yeah he's but people took that to mean he has personal knowledge of aliens but he was just

01:27:00.500 saying the numbers would you must also know the story of when jimmy carter asked for the security

01:27:07.920 clearance to see everything and the pentagon turned him down he's he's the commander in chief

01:27:14.760 he's the head of government the head of state but okay and they said no you can't have the clearance

01:27:19.460 yeah he's also a peanut farmer he also had a ufo sighting i think of his own but he's a one-term

01:27:25.080 president he's a temp the executive branch has nothing to do with this these people do not have

01:27:30.460 clearance so it's a quaint idea to think that the president is the commander-in-chief he's not the 0.99

01:27:34.780 military run shit they run shit like they're a sub-saharan uh you know warlord i mean these guys 1.00

01:27:42.880 have power. They found the mother of all toys. They're trying to tinker with it. This is a very 1.00

01:27:48.820 plausible thing. They have black budgets. We're talking millions of dollars. Now, it is interesting. 0.95

01:27:56.360 Bob Lazar comes into this. Obama was like, look, you don't think that if we had a UFO and a hidden

01:28:02.820 base near Area 51 that some worker, some guy would take a selfie with it to impress his girlfriend?

01:28:08.600 that's what he said recently bob lazar took his wife to see that he did happen yeah they're sitting

01:28:18.100 there saying there would be a guy who leaked there was a guy who leaked yeah yeah and it's like even

01:28:24.260 by your own criteria this has happened yeah but again people are incredulous and they need more

01:28:30.020 and you gotta plop the alien in neil degrasse tyson's lap before we move the conversation

01:28:35.240 forward. Meanwhile, the evidence that we are providing to you, whether it be Tic Tac, Bob

01:28:41.160 Lazar, but definitely Westall, this is evidence that would fry a man. We would put a man in an

01:28:46.580 electric chair and kill him. If we still use electric chairs, we don't even kill anybody 1.00

01:28:50.220 anymore. We got to bring the death penalty back. But the point is we have certainty. You might not,

01:28:57.520 I do. Now, I mean, I've been talking about this and I was not an early adopter of Bob Lazar. I

01:29:03.800 was skeptical as all hell. I was like, what? I don't buy it, dude. It's a fanciful tale.

01:29:09.940 In what world am I going to believe this? And then I found the Tic Tacs and I was like, oh shit. 1.00

01:29:15.600 Okay, hold up. Let me go back. And he's discussed this on Joe Rogan. By the way, 0.98

01:29:20.820 his appearance on Joe Rogan has like 60 something million views. It might be the most viewed

01:29:26.120 conversation that has ever taken place in humanity. What conversation has more than 60

01:29:32.940 million okay that's wild there's a lot of interest around this and as you look at Bob Lazar talk

01:29:38.600 and there's a part of your brain that never turns off that is going I don't think this guy's lying

01:29:42.680 this guy seems credible he doesn't act like he's lying this is all sort of checking out

01:29:48.920 and time after time things are popping up that validate what this man is saying and then you

01:29:55.420 think god dang it I gotta go to work or I gotta take the kids to the soccer practice but yeah

01:30:00.320 i've got to move on with my life but yeah it's it's it's it's disquieting isn't it

01:30:06.500 because as you say what it suggests if it is true bob lazar's story and the tic tac what it

01:30:11.920 suggests is so yeah a complete game changer as you say the biggest story ever uh completely changes

01:30:17.560 completely changes our understanding of the entire cosmos really doesn't it correct i mean

01:30:23.600 there's one thing before because unfortunately i've got to wrap it up in the next 20 minutes

01:30:29.600 or so at most just because of the way the back office production

01:30:35.380 staff work.

01:30:36.460 They need to go home at a certain point.

01:30:37.500 So I've only got 20 minutes or so at most left.

01:30:40.180 So there's one thing I want to move on to and talk a little bit

01:30:42.980 about, which is the disclosure project.

01:30:45.860 But it's building on exactly what we've been talking about.

01:30:48.180 Like the credibility of Bob Lazar, the credibility of eyewitnesses,

01:30:53.580 whether it's Commander Fravor or the 100-plus kids in Westall,

01:30:57.920 um the disclosure project um and uh incidentally i don't get too tinfoil hat about it but it was

01:31:06.040 going to come out just before 9-11 happened and then 9-11 happened but anyway in 2001 i think

01:31:13.240 august or maybe maybe even early september 2001 there was the disclosure project i mean it's still

01:31:18.340 there but they'd got together who's the guy you probably know off the top of your head who's the

01:31:23.000 guy's the main i think you might have mentioned him earlier uh dr greer oh yeah dr greer you mean

01:31:30.920 uh john lear no no no greer no greer right right stephen greer stephen greer dr stephen greer he

01:31:36.820 got together he's still around now and and so he got together a collection of unbelievably convincing

01:31:45.540 Witnesses 1.00

01:31:46.880 These are people that

01:31:48.940 Again their CV is

01:31:51.480 A faultless

01:31:53.240 Immaculate, there's everything from generals

01:31:55.420 Colonels

01:31:57.260 People that are like 0.99

01:31:58.600 Congressional lawyers

01:32:00.240 And on and on and on

01:32:02.280 NASA people

01:32:03.520 A great number of

01:32:06.180 Accounts and witness accounts

01:32:08.340 That he got together in one place at one time

01:32:11.280 To try and

01:32:12.980 Forse disclosure

01:32:14.120 Quote unquote disclosure

01:32:15.360 And I don't know if the videos are still out there

01:32:18.600 They must be still out there

01:32:19.560 Long form, hours long videos

01:32:21.900 Of one by one then coming up to a lector

01:32:24.340 And saying this is my story

01:32:25.500 This is what I saw

01:32:27.120 This is what I experienced

01:32:29.440 And I'm prepared to stand up in front of a court

01:32:32.520 Stand up in front of a grand jury

01:32:34.920 Congress, whatever you like

01:32:36.900 A senatorial hearing, anything 0.98

01:32:38.540 And I will put my hand on a bible

01:32:39.940 And all that

01:32:41.340 And this is what I saw

01:32:42.240 And it's remarkable stuff

01:32:43.920 That they saw underground bases, they saw aliens

01:32:45.980 They saw all sorts of crazy stuff

01:32:47.820 Lots of things that are like

01:32:50.040 Commander Fravor's account

01:32:51.940 And or Bob Lazar type

01:32:53.920 Accounts, levels like that

01:32:55.520 Now again

01:32:58.000 That number

01:32:59.880 Of witnesses with that level

01:33:02.100 Of credibility

01:33:03.400 To them

01:33:04.860 Difficult to, there's one or two

01:33:07.820 For me personally, one or two I can

01:33:09.320 Discount, I'm not sure about this person

01:33:11.520 It's shaky a little bit here or there

01:33:12.940 but a lot of them aren't a lot of them are like well i've got no reasonable rational reason to

01:33:19.080 discount that account do you know much about steven dr steven greer and the disclosure he's

01:33:25.180 he's a fascinating man and every time he talks it's it's riveting he seems like a john lear type

01:33:30.400 actually uh he's he knows a lot but look it's hard not everything's going to pan out and i could sit

01:33:38.400 here, we could talk for two hours about all the crap BS claims that has easily been debunked. 0.56

01:33:44.140 There are many, many of those. Even like Jeremy Corbell and the US government, they put out 0.97

01:33:51.020 this green triangle and they're going, oh, look, these green triangles are out there. It's like,

01:33:55.220 dude, it's a night vision camera that has an aperture that is in the shape of a triangle.

01:34:00.220 This has been recreated. It's blinking. The craft is blinking. It's clearly an airplane.

01:34:04.860 it's like alien crafts do not blink in the same way that our airplanes blink it's there's a law

01:34:11.140 that it's just crazy so look i'm just as skeptical i'm just as atheistic i'm just as rational i'm

01:34:17.820 i'm not a lunatic there's a million claims that i would just shoot down sure but the thing is

01:34:23.400 once you establish that some things are true and just play it as a thought experiment you talked

01:34:29.440 about zeta reticuli that bob lazar had seen that in the briefing documents that this is where it

01:34:34.100 came from it's like they knew the planets the third planet from the it had two sons it was like

01:34:38.840 tattooing but you know we know of the existence of this place and then come to find out there was

01:34:44.340 an alien abduction story famous one from the 1950s i believe or 60s uh betty and barney rubble

01:34:51.220 no betty and barney hill i believe and interracial couple from back in the day they had a very

01:34:56.940 detailed it's a famous alien abduction story and they went into hypnosis and revealed stuff and

01:35:02.940 And it's, you know, you're facing the wall of, look, it's a story from two people.

01:35:07.000 It's what are we going to, it's a extraordinary claim.

01:35:10.400 They're never going to have extraordinary evidence to back it up.

01:35:12.760 But in that Betty Hill, I believe her name was, maybe I'm butchering it.

01:35:17.360 She said that the aliens showed her their star system and she made a map of it.

01:35:24.200 And someone figured out that the map she drew, the alignment of the stars was Zeta Reticula.

01:35:29.700 that now could it be that bob lazar heard of that story he didn't he was not into this stuff could

01:35:36.460 he have heard it of it and then lifted that and put it into his quote lie or if bob lazar is telling

01:35:43.020 the truth what the hell was betty and bartney doing how would they have picked that star system

01:35:47.960 in this ever expansive universe what are the odds of that so it's one of these situations where

01:35:53.480 either both are telling the truth or both are lying i don't think one is telling the truth

01:36:00.480 and one is lying hold on i think i butchered the logic of that but i know what you're getting i

01:36:04.560 absolutely understand where you're coming from yeah it's it's super interesting if you if you

01:36:11.700 could hold on to whatever skepticism you want but as a experiment reassess things based on what you

01:36:18.920 are counting as accurate counting as true and as far as disclosure man i mean

01:36:24.840 you know it would take donald trump it takes trump to even do this he doesn't even seem

01:36:31.320 that interested in it he doesn't want to be he's sort of going other people are talking about it

01:36:37.240 it's popular it's good for ratings or something like that but i mean they could blow the lid off

01:36:43.280 this thing it would want like the westall photos or an alien craft or confirmation on bob blazar

01:36:49.300 any tic tac you know i think that elon musk should film our atmosphere take all those star

01:36:56.680 lake satellites just record hd record everything in our lower earth orbit i think it's time we

01:37:03.960 have been invaded multiple times by multiple crafts and it's like at what point do you put

01:37:09.020 a home security system in your house well that's another thing um some of the uh sts various um

01:37:16.480 um uh sat uh what they call the shuttle various shuttle missions which saw all sorts of anomalous

01:37:23.720 and very very difficult if not impossible to explain phenomena or even recently in the like

01:37:29.260 the last couple of weeks there was another uh i think pentagon or fbi dump of information which

01:37:37.720 even talked about some of the early apollo missions or even sorry pre-apollo some of the um

01:37:43.860 what mercury or gemini some of the gemini missions so before apollo in the earlier in the 1960s

01:37:51.520 where there's there's astronauts going up they're saying well there's there's some sort of uh what

01:37:56.900 we would call now uap flying alongside us here and yeah you know houston's saying really are you

01:38:04.380 sure and they're like yeah i'm looking at it right now yeah yeah it's not part of our craft

01:38:07.640 it's not a jettisoned part of our craft and they're like okay loads of accounts like that

01:38:13.400 loads that's interesting but you know you could chalk that up to look they don't understand a lot

01:38:19.740 of the stuff that they're seeing out there because it's the first time out there and there's a lot of

01:38:23.060 crazy crap happening in outer space so it could just be an actual unidentified thing that it's

01:38:30.200 not necessarily alien but uh you know nasa has been lying i mean that nasa put out a report about

01:38:35.440 ufos and they're like yeah we haven't found anything you know uh nothing to see here and

01:38:40.280 it was laughable that those guys did that and it's it's so not true and they have egg on their

01:38:45.000 face now because you know the truth is coming out and you know the next batch the next batch of

01:38:50.740 releases are they're ramping up they're gonna get crazier and crazier and i think they're testing

01:38:55.840 the waters i think they're it's a dipping their toe they're trying to see if the public is going

01:39:01.240 to freak out meanwhile everyone is struggling economically and trying to you know forge ahead

01:39:07.060 despite challenges in their lives so at this point we're sort of we've been blue balled so much and

01:39:12.520 we've been edging about actual disclosure that we're just going dude enough is enough like we

01:39:17.420 survived a pandemic there's wars it's like good lord we're on the clock here like just tell us

01:39:23.160 tell us enough is enough so i suppose i have to start wrapping up now but suppose i suppose what

01:39:28.340 i want to ask you put you on the line put you uh put you truly uh under the spotlight let's take

01:39:36.760 things we accept that the westall is physically there that the uh the tic-tacs were physically

01:39:44.420 there that what bob lazar saw was physically there now what do you think or what to what

01:39:53.160 percentage roughly do you think that they are entirely made by human men

01:40:02.640 or they are they are they were designed and manufactured on an alien world that orbits

01:40:12.620 another star i my personal intuition would say it's 98 from an other world really okay it just

01:40:24.620 doesn't make sense i mean the only caveat being you might have seen a human reverse engineered

01:40:31.100 byproduct of our acquisition of alien tech right so it's going to be a little of both but it's

01:40:38.620 It's definitely not a nothing burger. This is a something burger. And it's the biggest story

01:40:42.960 of our lives. And we might be on the verge of actually getting somewhere with it. All the

01:40:48.300 Westall people, they just had the 60th anniversary. They just want the truth. They're like sick of it

01:40:54.340 and they're not going to live forever. And they're going, can we get some, can we move the needle?

01:40:59.360 Can we progress? I mean, we're not that dumb collectively. We can get things done. 0.97

01:41:05.300 you know the Egyptians stacked up a bunch of rocks people seem to be impressed by that which

01:41:10.660 is you know I'm not ever quite as impressed as I it seems that other people are but I think we 0.76

01:41:17.360 could actually solve what is the greatest mystery of our time and I think we're on the path to do

01:41:22.860 that okay okay very interesting I mean one last thing I find it fascinating when the US government

01:41:32.620 i mean the the known government not any sort of like shadow government the the the front facing

01:41:39.780 supposed to be legit government they come out and they say which they have been doing for quite a

01:41:45.960 while now well over two years maybe in fact long for quite a few years now they will come out whether

01:41:52.140 it's in congress the senate the pentagon themselves they come out and they say we don't

01:41:58.140 know what this is yeah it's not us and we don't know what it is and that's it and then they go

01:42:04.820 well there you go that's all we can say that's all we can say that is that should be very very

01:42:11.760 eye-opening the fact that the world most the vast majority of people just sort of move on from that

01:42:17.060 they're like oh okay fair enough cbs is reporting that now are they all right well anyway yeah

01:42:22.460 every time i look at the news it seems like the opening scene of a horror movie or or a

01:42:27.680 apocalyptic movie it's just like what the opening of i am legend is a woman figures out how to cure

01:42:34.580 cancer and rejuvenate cells and then next thing you know there's a zombie apocalypse i mean yes

01:42:40.760 this is crazy what what we take as normal now what they've already admitted to is completely

01:42:46.880 bonkers and it's like yeah it's not good enough it's unidentified yeah that of course it's

01:42:51.680 unidentified of course there's a mystery about it but it's not good enough some people say oh i

01:42:56.540 think that the kids in westall saw something i think david fravor saw something uh not good

01:43:02.740 enough sir you're removed from the jury like that is a cop-out that is intellectual cowardice

01:43:08.440 yeah okay they what they saw is what they described and we have every reason to think so

01:43:13.960 and don't believe me because i'm saying it or beau i'm challenging you you go see what you can

01:43:20.780 discover and get back to me you know i mean again move it forward i don't have a vested interest in

01:43:26.480 this. I'm not, I'm not, you know, look, I would tell you if I didn't, if I doubted this and I

01:43:32.540 thought it was nothing, I would say it. It's not. And this is not on a whim. This is after years of

01:43:37.660 slow, painstaking research into the things I'm talking about. And it gives me the confidence

01:43:42.900 to say that. And the conversation is going to switch radically the second they flip that switch

01:43:49.140 and release the actually relevant things. And then we're going to talk about a whole new set

01:43:54.560 of things and i'll come back on the lotus shooters okay great great no thank you very much for so i

01:43:59.780 have to wrap it up there basically uh yeah yeah i've got to wrap it up there um okay so devon

01:44:05.620 thank you so much for your time would love to have you back it's always seems far too long

01:44:09.900 between our conversations um we could have another we could have a part two of this we've barely

01:44:15.380 scratched the surface really haven't we true um so in the meantime i will watch england uh bring it

01:44:21.740 home and it's going to be two two world wars and two world cups so uh that's that's happening

01:44:27.340 fingers crossed fingers crossed yeah or we'll get to the second round or the quarterfinal play

01:44:32.080 someone half decent and get knocked out like every single tournament uh and then we'll fester in our

01:44:37.840 own uh angst and dread about the whole thing definitely okay once again thank you for your

01:44:43.520 time and uh i'll speak to you again sometime soon and uh everyone else out there i hope you

01:44:49.080 I hope you enjoyed that, until next time take care

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - June 10, 2026

UFO Disclosure ｜ Interview with Devon Tracey

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