The Roseanne Barr Podcast - Dinesh D'Souza ｜ The Roseanne Barr Podcast #022

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00:00:55.220 Greetings, Earthlings. Welcome to the Roseanne Barr podcast.

00:00:59.160 I have such an interesting show today because I have a fantastically interesting guest.

00:01:04.800 And I'm very excited.

00:01:07.280 I watched his film last night.

00:01:08.940 He's a great filmmaker and a great thinker and a great American citizen.

00:01:15.380 Dinesh D'Souza. Hi.

00:01:17.060 Hey, it's great to be here and it's a surreal experience for me to be sitting next to you.

00:01:22.520 Oh, you see, my patience is growing.

00:01:28.520 Thank you.

00:01:29.320 Looking forward to this.

00:01:30.420 Yeah, I want to go right into watching your film, which is called Police State, right?

00:01:36.600 Yes, it, you know, I came to the country, to the United States in 1978 as a teenager and I was exhilarated by American freedom, opportunity, but also these unalienable rights.

00:01:52.460 And there they are in the Bill of Rights, you know, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, right to assemble, right to petition the government for grievances, equal rights, equal justice under the law.

00:02:02.420 And so here we fast forward to now and I realize suddenly, whoa, all these rights have come into jeopardy and the pretext might vary.

00:02:12.980 You know, it's 9-11, it's due to COVID, it's due to January 6th, but whatever the rationale, the movement is in the same direction toward the extinguishing of our liberties.

00:02:25.960 And that's why the startling question, which really I couldn't have made, I couldn't have asked 10 years ago, are we becoming a police state?

00:02:32.380 That's the theme of the film.

00:02:34.060 Well, I love the film, I wanted to say, because, and I want to thank you for giving us a cohesive timeline, because I think that that's very much missing.

00:02:45.900 And I think that it's missing on purpose, because they don't give us the, what's the word, Jake, when things go in a certain order?

00:02:54.260 It's sequential.

00:02:55.800 Sequential, yeah.

00:02:56.940 We don't have a sequential memory of how things start slowly and then keep going in small steps.

00:03:05.440 And you have made that very clear in the movie, and I think it's very needed for people, in order to wake them up so they see how their rights are being eroded and how dangerous that is.

00:03:18.120 Yeah, this police state has a genealogy, a storyline.

00:03:23.300 It has a starting point, and I was trying to think about where that starting point was.

00:03:28.080 I had to research this for the film.

00:03:29.500 Does it go back to, like, Watergate?

00:03:31.120 Does it go back to the days of J. Edgar Hoover, who was kind of a freak, you know, and liked to keep files, secret files on people, Martin Luther King and other people?

00:03:39.760 Does it go back to Ruby Ridge and Waco, those incidents from the 1990s?

00:03:43.960 There's one under Bush, one under Bill Clinton.

00:03:47.720 And I think the real turning point is the years of George W. Bush after 9-11.

00:03:54.680 And this is a little awkward to say, because although the police state is being driven by the left today, it has bipartisan roots.

00:04:03.420 Right. 0.70

00:04:03.800 Because after 9-11, there were many people, I'm sorry to say me included, who said, okay, you know, we got these bad guys, these Islamic terrorists, they want to kill us. 0.99

00:04:14.500 We're going to have to give the government these enhanced powers.

00:04:17.340 And there were people then who warned, Ron Paul being one of them, and others, don't do that.

00:04:24.720 Don't give the government this kind of power.

00:04:26.260 It will be used against American citizens.

00:04:28.400 It will be used against you.

00:04:29.860 And we were like, nah, that's not going to happen.

00:04:33.120 But it did happen.

00:04:34.980 And I think it started under Obama, the retooling, the reshifting of the police state toward political opponents.

00:04:42.340 And it's now escalated dramatically under Biden.

00:04:46.780 Yeah, it is terrifying, isn't it?

00:04:49.340 I mean, it is terrifying.

00:04:50.640 And I like that you went into so much of that, how who's being targeted?

00:04:56.980 Certainly not the, what is it, the number of millions of people who are pouring across the border unvetted, you know, to make up the population of three states, they say.

00:05:09.580 Certainly not them, but the target is Catholics, who believe you shouldn't, you know, abort their pro-life. 0.98

00:05:21.820 And you show a lot of that, the pro-life movement, people who are specifically, you know, aghast over the Democrat idea, in New York especially, of making it legal to abort babies after they're born alive, or up until the time they take their first breath.

00:05:43.460 People are aghast at that.

00:05:45.660 Yeah, I wanted to show that the police state is not simply Trump.

00:05:52.160 Right.

00:05:52.360 Because there are going to be guys who go, well, you know, I'm not Trump, Dinesh, and I didn't go in the Capitol on January 6th, and I pay my taxes.

00:05:59.820 I'm a good guy, so I don't have anything to worry about the police state never coming after me.

00:06:04.300 I'm never going to hear the FBI battering ram or the helicopter over my lawn.

00:06:09.340 And I'm like, eh, don't be so sure, because there are a lot of ordinary people, some of them school board, moms who go to school board meetings because they don't like what their kids are getting in school.

00:06:20.720 And they discover that they're being watched.

00:06:22.880 They end up on these lists.

00:06:24.640 People who went to Washington, D.C. around January 6th, but they didn't go to the Trump rally.

00:06:28.580 They didn't go in the Capitol.

00:06:29.660 And they're on a watch list, and there are federal marshals following them around to this day.

00:06:33.780 So all this kind of craziness is in the movie, and I think the left is a little startled because they can't challenge it.

00:06:42.400 It's all going on.

00:06:43.240 There's not a single fact in the movie that's even open to dispute.

00:06:46.560 And so I think the movie has a very unnerving experience about people who are still, and many Republicans, many conservatives, still think, you know, we're living in a free society.

00:06:58.040 Don't get too excited.

00:07:00.100 We have nothing to really worry about.

00:07:01.820 The pendulum swings over here, but it's going to swing back.

00:07:04.640 Well, no.

00:07:05.220 Sometimes pendulums don't swing back.

00:07:07.180 They swing this way, and they stay there.

00:07:09.620 And it takes a horrible set of circumstances, catastrophic war in the case of the Nazis, the, you know, implosion of a whole society in the case of the Soviet Union.

00:07:19.040 And only then do you get change.

00:07:21.500 That's what really astounds me is that the left who, you know, I used to be left.

00:07:26.560 I was raised left until I left the left.

00:07:30.660 But, well, when I was in the left, we were for free speech.

00:07:37.940 You know, we were for dialogue and argument and, you know, compromise.

00:07:43.800 I mean, all these things are not, have no part in the left, nor, surprisingly, does any talk of labor rights.

00:07:54.260 Right.

00:07:54.840 We're dealing with a completely new left, and we're dealing with a completely different Democratic Party.

00:07:58.800 I mean, the Democratic Party was a one-party state kind of in the 19, from the 1930s, FDR, all the way to Reagan.

00:08:07.340 Because there was a Republican Party, but it was kind of almost like a token opposition.

00:08:11.540 But the Democrats weren't the same Democrats as we have today.

00:08:16.460 They didn't want to take away your free speech rights.

00:08:18.620 They didn't want to shut you down.

00:08:20.040 They didn't want to put you in jail.

00:08:21.720 And we've had police states in our history, but they've tended to be, for a limited time, wartime, or they have tended to focus on, well, blacks obviously lived in a police state in the slavery South, and in the post-Bella Mira.

00:08:37.040 But the idea of turning the whole country into a police state and criminalizing the entire opposition and trying to lock up the leader of the opposition party, this is unheard of.

00:08:47.200 So we have taken a dark turn in our country's politics, and as you said, the goal of this film, people have seen it happening a little over here, digital censorship, criminalization of political differences, political prisoners.

00:09:01.680 We try to bring this.

00:09:02.580 Criminalization of somebody who dissents against the sanctified narrative, too.

00:09:12.660 Right.

00:09:13.140 And often the narrative, they act like they're fighting misinformation and disinformation, but they are the number one purveyors of disinformation.

00:09:20.540 Yeah, that's what's astounding.

00:09:22.000 Things like, you know, if you take the vaccine, you can't get COVID.

00:09:25.380 Right.

00:09:26.140 If you take the vaccine, you can't give someone COVID.

00:09:29.060 This is coming out of the government.

00:09:30.320 Yeah.

00:09:30.880 And it's false.

00:09:31.880 But if you challenge it, they ban you for misinformation when they are the instruments of, they are the agents of misinformation.

00:09:39.460 Well, they're all in bed together, and it seems like they're all pulling their wagons in a circle, and they are horrified at the prospect that their web of power could be broken.

00:09:55.560 So doesn't that mean that it kind of is being broken in some ways?

00:10:00.300 Because if they weren't under some kind of feeling of threat, they wouldn't be saying anything.

00:10:07.360 There's no question that if they thought that they had an overwhelming majority of people on their side, they wouldn't need to do police state tactics.

00:10:15.920 The reason police state tactics and coercive tactics are used is you have to force people.

00:10:20.720 You have to bludgeon them.

00:10:21.920 You have to batter them. 0.98

00:10:22.820 You have to pressure them.

00:10:24.580 And I think this is going on at all levels of the society.

00:10:27.000 One of the issues we look at in the film is, you know, clearly every FBI agent can't be a thug.

00:10:34.140 There have got to be some ordinary guys who go in there.

00:10:36.540 They have a law enforcement background, military background.

00:10:39.520 But what happens is the police state is very cunning.

00:10:43.120 It is able to recruit good people to do bad things.

00:10:47.240 And it does it by removing the end goal from sight and focusing on the operational task.

00:10:54.780 I mean, I think this is how the Nazis did it. 0.94

00:10:56.340 That is how they did it. 0.99

00:10:57.380 Yeah, they're not going to say, you know, go kill these people and get rid of them. 0.98

00:11:00.480 They're like, listen, these people are like a menace to society, but we're going to handle it. 0.92

00:11:05.100 You don't have to worry about what is their ultimate fate.

00:11:07.940 Your job is to, like, round them up.

00:11:09.560 Right.

00:11:09.940 Right?

00:11:10.100 That's your goal.

00:11:10.740 That's right.

00:11:11.080 Your job is to label them and define them and to identify them and, if necessary, to apprehend them.

00:11:18.300 The process will then take over from there, and you don't worry about it.

00:11:21.380 Right.

00:11:21.620 I think that's what happens with the ordinary FBI agent.

00:11:23.980 There's a grandmother.

00:11:25.400 I realize she's 70 years old, and you're not going to feel good about pulling her hair and twisting arms behind her back. 0.61

00:11:32.060 But guess what?

00:11:33.140 She's doing something really bad, and you don't worry about what it is.

00:11:36.400 You just go get her.

00:11:37.700 We'll then put her before the courts. 0.93

00:11:39.480 We will deal with it.

00:11:40.520 And then the FBI guy goes, well, you know, I want to be on the team.

00:11:44.980 I want to be one of the guys.

00:11:46.240 I want to get a bonus.

00:11:47.060 I want to—

00:11:48.060 I'm just following orders.

00:11:48.960 I'm just following orders.

00:11:50.540 Good Germans.

00:11:51.800 They're good Germans.

00:11:52.600 It's the good Germans.

00:11:53.780 You know, they brought MKUltra over here in Operation Paperclip after World War II.

00:11:59.320 They brought all that Nazi intelligence over to the United States, and they never gave it up. 0.93

00:12:04.900 And it was how to control population with mass mind control.

00:12:09.060 And, of course, we have the media, which is, I mean, self-evident to everyone who watches it.

00:12:14.000 It only tells—I used to think it only told one side, but now I realize it doesn't tell the truth of any side.

00:12:23.520 It has a whole third thing going on.

00:12:26.580 It's very disturbing because in classic police states, think of, like, you know, Goebbels in Germany or even Stalin.

00:12:36.000 They had a minister of propaganda.

00:12:37.880 They ordered the media.

00:12:39.620 You've got to say this.

00:12:40.380 You've got to say that.

00:12:41.320 Our media is ostensibly independent.

00:12:43.340 You've got all these news organizations, thousands of independent journalists.

00:12:47.080 So it's even more mysterious how you get our media to sing out of the same hymn book when nobody is directly providing a hymn book,

00:12:55.540 and nobody is forcing them to all sing the same music, but they do.

00:12:59.480 But I think Elon Musk proved that they were in cahoots, and that's the definition of fascism when corporations get in bed with the government.

00:13:08.400 So the government, you know, the Biden administration and the Obama administration, to get Trump—I mean, the Obama administration, in order to get Trump,

00:13:20.920 was calling Zuckerberg and all these people and saying, you will say he's a Russian agent, and you will say Russia, Russia, Russia, and you will say that,

00:13:32.800 and you will say it every day for four years, everywhere.

00:13:37.000 Absolutely.

00:13:37.720 No, I mean, there was the intelligence officials who put out the false narrative that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.

00:13:45.080 The media went with it.

00:13:46.180 It shows that our police state is a big octopus that stretches across the public sector and the private sector.

00:13:54.220 It includes academia and the media, so many elements of our society.

00:13:58.340 That's part of what makes it so disturbing, because part of it can be fixed with, you know, Trump goes back in the White House.

00:14:05.140 Yeah, he can redo the FBI.

00:14:07.480 He can redo the Department of Homeland Security.

00:14:10.200 But you know what?

00:14:11.480 YouTube is still going to ban people, and Facebook is still going to ban people.

00:14:15.060 And so you need the courts to do their part.

00:14:17.620 So interestingly...

00:14:19.000 They don't do that either.

00:14:20.800 Yeah.

00:14:21.300 Now, the court is taking a big case.

00:14:22.980 There's a big free speech case.

00:14:24.000 I know.

00:14:24.020 I was so happy to see that.

00:14:25.620 Coming up next spring.

00:14:26.840 And, you know, I wish they had kept an injunction saying to these digital platforms,

00:14:30.900 in the meantime, you cannot collude with the government.

00:14:34.380 But they said, you can do what you want right now.

00:14:37.200 We're going to take the case in the spring.

00:14:39.020 So let's see what they decide.

00:14:40.500 They could administer a really good dropkick to censorship.

00:14:43.920 That would be very good.

00:14:45.620 It would be very good for America to not have censorship of...

00:14:49.920 Yeah.

00:14:50.320 It wouldn't end private censorship.

00:14:52.160 So YouTube could still have its own guidelines, but they couldn't collude with the government.

00:14:56.140 I think that's the...

00:14:57.220 The court can withdraw the grubby hand of the government from this censorship operation.

00:15:02.880 And that alone would be progress.

00:15:04.300 Yeah, that would be progress.

00:15:05.640 And it would be progress if they were in collusion with any government anywhere on earth.

00:15:12.640 Well, this is important because the police state, you saw this in the film, of course,

00:15:16.660 there's a global aspect to it.

00:15:18.740 Yes.

00:15:18.920 The UN is involved, the World Economic Forum.

00:15:22.140 And it is eerie to see how the same...

00:15:24.240 You'll hear some rhetoric in America and you think it's like homegrown, you know, like American nonsense.

00:15:28.940 But it isn't.

00:15:29.640 No, there is in Canada.

00:15:31.020 There is in New Zealand of all places.

00:15:33.700 Australia, Europe.

00:15:35.220 So this concept of a police planet becomes very disquieting.

00:15:38.920 And think about it.

00:15:39.700 Historically, I mean, Mao was able to do it in China.

00:15:42.460 And the Soviets within the vast Russian Empire.

00:15:45.680 But none of them could create a worldwide tyranny.

00:15:50.120 And ironically, technology, which is in so many ways an instrument of liberation,

00:15:54.900 now enables tyrannical control to a degree that these earlier powers could never have dreamed of.

00:16:01.100 I know.

00:16:01.480 I thought that, you know, if Hitler had had computers, it's like that. 0.89

00:16:07.980 Because it's that same intelligence.

00:16:10.320 It's that same mind.

00:16:12.460 It's a set that, you know, wants world domination for a few at the expense of the many. 1.00

00:16:19.380 And the useless eaters, we're kicking them off this planet. 1.00

00:16:23.120 It's just pure Nazism. 1.00

00:16:25.780 Yeah.

00:16:26.660 And Stalinism combined.

00:16:28.600 So they can't be blaming each other.

00:16:31.120 You know, there was a Stalin-Hitler pact that everybody forgets about.

00:16:35.320 And that's what it seems to me is going on.

00:16:38.000 The right wing and the left wing are exactly the same.

00:16:42.080 To me, and I want to ask you, how far along down this path towards total lockdown and police state world do you think we are?

00:16:53.480 And can we turn around?

00:16:54.680 I would say that on a scale of 1 to 10, we are somewhere between 6 and 7.

00:17:01.160 Which is to say, we're not there yet.

00:17:03.680 We're not even close to being a full-fledged police state.

00:17:06.300 Frankly, if we're a full-fledged police state, I can't make a movie called Police State.

00:17:10.000 Right.

00:17:10.140 So the point of making the movie is to sound a warning, an alarm, before we get to that point where it's too late and the jaws of the police state have slammed shut.

00:17:22.080 But, you know, when you look at police states around the world, let's take North Korea right now, China, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and the old Soviet Union.

00:17:36.380 And you ask, well, what do those places all have in common?

00:17:39.880 What are the five or six things that they all have?

00:17:41.900 Well, they have mass surveillance of citizens.

00:17:44.660 They have widespread censorship.

00:17:47.500 They have ideological indoctrination and propaganda in the schools and in the media.

00:17:53.320 They are one-party states where they try to shut down opposition and lock up the leaders of the opposition party.

00:17:59.680 They undermine religious liberty. 0.81

00:18:02.520 They have political prisoners.

00:18:04.940 So just take that list and go down the checklist and see which of those things do you now see in America.

00:18:09.840 Well, all of them.

00:18:11.240 To some degree or another, they're all here.

00:18:14.240 And that is enough to sound the alarm and say that this is not an idle fear.

00:18:22.260 This is, in fact, we had a bunch of people at our Mar-a-Lago premiere who are, you know, who've grown up in police states.

00:18:28.720 There was a woman from China who was there last night and she was like, I really see how eerie it is to see Maoism, is how she puts it,

00:18:39.880 kind of rearing its face in America.

00:18:42.140 I call it Obamaoism.

00:18:45.360 Obamaoism.

00:18:45.900 What do you think of that?

00:18:47.420 That's a good one.

00:18:48.520 Thank you.

00:18:49.440 Yes.

00:18:49.880 Because I think he is the, you know, I don't, someone in the film says,

00:18:54.300 normally police states have a dictator and you know who's running it.

00:18:58.580 And it's, you know, in the Soviet Union, of course, it was initially Lenin and then Stalin and then on to Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Chernenko, Andropov, and so on.

00:19:06.620 In China, Xi.

00:19:08.240 And maybe in Russia, Putin.

00:19:11.020 Who's running our police state?

00:19:12.380 And then there's an awkward silence because we don't really know all, but, but we do know that the guy who was clearly the architect of getting us moving in that direction is Obama.

00:19:23.300 Yeah.

00:19:23.680 Well, he is, this is his third term, I say. 0.89

00:19:26.860 You know, he said himself that he wanted a useless sock puppet and he'd sit in the basement with the microphone. 0.94

00:19:34.120 Well, hello. 0.97

00:19:36.300 Look around.

00:19:37.300 You see what I'm saying?

00:19:38.420 Absolutely.

00:19:38.860 I mean, I think Biden is a willing accomplice and, but he is clearly not driving the canoe.

00:19:46.220 He's in the canoe, but someone else is moving the oars.

00:19:50.600 The same people that made the Iran deal and that's why they had to get rid of Trump.

00:19:55.500 That's why they had to do what they did in 2020 because they had to bring that back.

00:20:01.080 Because that's his, I think he sees himself as a messianic figure and that he was supposed to do that.

00:20:11.240 One thing that's amazing about Trump, we were talking about this a moment ago, was what is it about Trump that freaks these people out beyond, you know, anything else?

00:20:21.940 Because Trump is politically a moderate.

00:20:25.140 I know.

00:20:25.780 Right?

00:20:26.220 I mean, this is a guy who is, he's not talking about getting rid of the taxes completely.

00:20:30.580 He's not talking about dismantling the federal government.

00:20:34.040 He used to be a Democrat.

00:20:35.020 He donated Hillary Clinton.

00:20:35.580 He used to be a Democrat.

00:20:36.100 Hillary Clinton.

00:20:36.640 And the transformation of the treatment of Trump from a kind of a cultural idol to being a cartoon villain is fascinating.

00:20:48.600 It's very fascinating.

00:20:49.220 I think it's because when they realized their mind control didn't work on black people anymore, that they hugely panicked because Obama was at the, you know, he was very much a part of that. 1.00

00:21:02.800 And when they saw that at that time it was 46% of black people were going to vote for Trump, they had to reel that shit in. 0.99

00:21:13.820 That's exactly what I think. 0.99

00:21:15.920 And I think they had to invalidate all those black votes in those black precincts because when you look at the facts, that's exactly the votes that were thrown out were Trump votes.

00:21:27.660 But they don't say, they say they, you know, that there's evidence that they invalidated Trump votes, but they don't say black Trump votes, but that's what it was. 0.52

00:21:37.680 So I think it's, you know, it's all something bigger than anybody's given real thought to because they rely on that racist, they rely on ginning up racism because that's their brown shirts in the street.

00:21:58.240 And, you know, that's who they're using is, you know, the youth, the working class youth, heavily brown and black and white too.

00:22:07.900 Or the white kids seem to all come from privilege, but that's how they act and forgive themselves for carrying on a system of racism in this country.

00:22:18.180 I mean, the 91 charges against Trump and the effort to just lock him up before the 2024 election, that is about as clear a hallmark of a police state as anything.

00:22:32.400 Because, in fact, if it happened in any other country, I mean, imagine if this was Poland and there was a leading candidate and he was, you know, Donald Trumpski, let's call him.

00:22:39.220 And suddenly they slap him one year before the election with 91 charges in multiple jurisdictions.

00:22:47.040 We would look at it and go, that country has become an authoritarian society.

00:22:51.920 We used to laugh at countries that did that.

00:22:53.780 Exactly.

00:22:54.880 And yet there are so many people who don't recognize it when it shows up, which really shows you that our police state has a camouflaged quality.

00:23:04.300 Yes.

00:23:04.740 Oh, yeah.

00:23:05.600 It's all.

00:23:06.100 You know, it doesn't have the Stalin overcoat, the Hitler mustache.

00:23:09.580 It is coming to you in the sweet tones of saving democracy.

00:23:15.160 Mm-hmm.

00:23:15.640 They always say that.

00:23:16.360 Upholding the rule of law.

00:23:17.680 Protecting freedom.

00:23:18.560 One, it's just lawfare has nothing to do with law.

00:23:22.020 It's the inversion of law.

00:23:25.960 Yes.

00:23:26.460 But you have to look at, like, you have to look at the number of people in this country, heavily black people of America,

00:23:35.040 who do know what's going on because it's been done on their population, trumping up charges, putting innocent people behind bars.

00:23:44.800 I mean, hello.

00:23:47.960 That's why people are seeing it and waking up in that community because they've seen it their whole lives.

00:23:55.060 And working class people have seen it their whole lives, too.

00:23:58.280 And that's why they despise the working class because they voted for Trump.

00:24:03.880 That's fascinating.

00:24:04.960 We had a lot of people like that at our premiere.

00:24:09.820 And my wife, Debbie, was saying, she's like, you know what?

00:24:12.260 A lot of them understand.

00:24:13.600 When they see this movie, it resonates with them because they have more of a history of this.

00:24:18.740 Yeah.

00:24:18.840 And that's a good point because, see, America as a country is defined by innocence.

00:24:24.040 I mean, one of the things, one of the classic American works, I'm an English major, is Huckleberry Finn.

00:24:30.660 Yeah.

00:24:30.840 You know, and Huckleberry Finn has this wide-eyed conception of, like, everything is going to be good.

00:24:35.240 And if you see something bad, it's sort of startling that it's even going on.

00:24:38.600 Like, why is it happening?

00:24:39.620 This is America.

00:24:41.140 And we're, like, on the Mississippi River.

00:24:42.820 But, so Americans are slow to recognize something really diabolical that is getting a hold in this country. 0.69

00:24:51.360 But, of course, blacks know it's happened before. 1.00

00:24:55.500 It happens in very insidious ways. 0.98

00:24:57.780 And so I think they respond immediately to this message.

00:25:01.440 I hope you're enjoying our show with Dinesh D'Souza and talking about his latest film, Police State, which is horrifying.

00:25:10.660 It's so great, but it's scary.

00:25:13.260 Anyway, I'm feeling really good.

00:25:15.520 That was a great movie, wasn't it?

00:25:17.180 It really was.

00:25:18.200 And we wanted to take a moment to talk about our sponsor, Feel the Greens.

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00:26:06.600 And then we'll get back to the Dinesh interview.

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00:26:29.940 All right, let's get back to the Dinesh interview because this is fascinating.

00:26:33.280 Yeah, he's really a cool guy, isn't he?

00:26:34.800 He's the best.

00:26:35.780 Yeah.

00:26:36.540 And I was going to say that Huckleberry Finn, of course, is the first censored book in the schools.

00:26:42.520 And that was from the left.

00:26:43.980 Yeah.

00:26:44.600 And, you know, they don't want anybody to know what it's really about. 1.00

00:26:48.220 But it has, you know, the N-word in it because 150 years ago, that's what idiots said. 0.99

00:26:56.100 I mean, Mark Dwayne was a liberal, you know. 0.99

00:26:58.760 And he is using the...

00:27:01.380 Vernacular of the times.

00:27:02.120 Well, and he's using it ironically.

00:27:04.000 Yeah.

00:27:04.200 Right.

00:27:04.800 Because, so that the work is deeply anti-racist.

00:27:10.100 Of course.

00:27:10.560 And the friendship between Jim, the slave, and Huck represents that innocent bonding that

00:27:18.460 is two human beings who, in a sense, transcend slavery because of the way they just relate

00:27:25.800 to each other just as an older man and then a young boy.

00:27:28.960 But they're both runaways, interestingly.

00:27:31.040 So, so, yeah.

00:27:34.200 A brilliant, a brilliant, brilliant piece of work.

00:27:37.000 Yeah.

00:27:37.560 Speaking of brilliant pieces of work, getting back to you.

00:27:41.740 You're a great filmmaker.

00:27:43.460 And I just wanted to talk, I asked you before if you were a fan of movies.

00:27:47.980 And we talked about that for a while.

00:27:50.400 But talk about the scope and the reach of movies and why that is something that's important

00:27:58.160 to you.

00:27:59.120 Well, I've been making documentary films.

00:28:02.380 And I made one feature film with my wife, Debbie, called Infidel.

00:28:06.280 But we started, I started the documentaries 10 years ago.

00:28:09.560 So, it's not been the defining work of my career.

00:28:13.140 I was initially kind of a think tank, intellectual type of guy, writing books, mainly giving speeches.

00:28:20.140 And then in 2012, I made a film on Obama.

00:28:23.860 And it was partly because I was looking at Obama and all the propaganda about Obama is

00:28:29.080 that he's a civil rights guy, he's Martin Luther King tradition, you know, Selma and Montgomery.

00:28:34.340 And I'm like, that doesn't really ring true.

00:28:38.520 And then I read Obama's book, Dreams from My Father.

00:28:41.040 And I realized, oh, no, Obama comes out of a completely different world.

00:28:45.360 And to understand Obama, I have to sort of go into that world.

00:28:48.560 And fortunately, it's easy for me to do it because that world is the world of third world 1.00

00:28:53.820 anti-colonialism.

00:28:54.900 And I grew up in that world.

00:28:56.360 That's India in the aftermath of the British rule, 200 years of British colonialism in India.

00:29:02.460 So, I kind of know that world.

00:29:04.640 So, but when I made that film on Obama, and it got me into trouble in certain ways, but

00:29:11.580 putting that aside for a moment, I saw the power of the film because I'd stand in the

00:29:15.740 back of the theater and I'd watch people in the theater get really emotional, very moved.

00:29:21.340 And I looked around and I go, you know, if I did a book signing at Barnes & Noble for

00:29:25.360 my earlier books, I wouldn't see any of these guys standing in that line.

00:29:30.000 So, the film has an ability to reach people that I can't otherwise reach.

00:29:35.120 And the other beauty of a film is that it's show, not tell.

00:29:39.020 So, I can talk to people all day about a police state.

00:29:42.040 And they, even if they have an intellectual grasp of it, they don't feel it.

00:29:46.900 Yeah, feel it.

00:29:47.880 Whereas in a movie, you see it, you feel it.

00:29:50.780 You can experience, Orwell calls it the boot stamping on the human face.

00:29:55.660 A movie can bring that home to you.

00:29:58.780 And that's the power of film.

00:30:01.340 And I was saying to you earlier that, to me, a good documentary has all the same elements

00:30:07.760 as a good feature film.

00:30:09.260 So, a good feature film has plot, storyline, narrative, characters, suspense, climax.

00:30:18.020 And so, a good non-fiction film, a good documentary, should, in a different way, have all those things

00:30:23.600 also.

00:30:23.960 And it does.

00:30:26.220 It really does.

00:30:27.420 And some of it's really beautifully, well, it's all beautifully done.

00:30:31.960 But I especially enjoy, I shouldn't say the ending, but, you know, I always ruin people

00:30:37.800 that come on.

00:30:38.880 They come on, I always talk about their endings and they're staring at me.

00:30:42.860 But I won't say it.

00:30:44.340 But at some point in the movie, you do make reference to Obama being so much a part of

00:30:53.640 what we're seeing in the Biden administration.

00:30:57.240 And he did go after you.

00:30:59.260 So, I do want you to talk about that.

00:31:01.100 I did too.

00:31:01.440 Because I think, like you said, too, about the left, they're okay with it when it happens

00:31:06.460 to everybody else getting censored.

00:31:08.500 But say what you said about how it kind of wakes them up.

00:31:12.460 So, it, I mean, it was also very eye-opening for me.

00:31:15.420 And I'll talk about the case in a minute.

00:31:17.420 The, I had, at that time, I had a lot of friends who were on the left from D.C.

00:31:24.600 Because when you're in that kind of intellectual world in D.C., it's all like one club.

00:31:29.820 So, and it's also a small world.

00:31:31.440 I go to a restaurant.

00:31:32.500 There's this guy from the Washington Post, E.J. Dion.

00:31:34.800 I'm like, hey, E.J., how's it going?

00:31:36.120 How's your wife?

00:31:36.800 You know.

00:31:37.240 And I go to the bookstore.

00:31:38.540 And there's some guy, you know, there from, you know, Senator Schumer's staff.

00:31:43.000 And I know the guy.

00:31:44.280 So, I knew a lot of these guys.

00:31:45.980 And when my case first came up, I thought, oh, you know what?

00:31:49.780 These guys know me.

00:31:51.080 I mean, they realize I'm not a criminal.

00:31:53.180 I'm not, you know, so they're not going to be okay with this.

00:31:56.280 They're going to be like, Dinesh got shafted.

00:31:58.660 But then I realized, no, none of them are willing to say that.

00:32:02.800 They'd see me in the bookstore.

00:32:04.080 Oh, man, Dinesh, you really got shafted.

00:32:05.800 I'm like, you know, E.J., some conservatives are saying that.

00:32:09.740 And then Megyn Kelly says that on Fox News.

00:32:11.480 But it'd be really nice if you said that.

00:32:14.080 Not a word.

00:32:15.040 Right.

00:32:15.240 Of course not.

00:32:15.620 And so then I realized, well, this is not really quite what I thought it was.

00:32:19.880 Very eye-opening.

00:32:20.680 So, my case involved a technical violation of the campaign finance law.

00:32:24.680 As I was trying to donate to a college friend of mine, I gave $20,000 over the limit, which

00:32:30.400 is, of course, a pittance compared to what Soros and all these guys give, you know, millions

00:32:34.360 of dollars.

00:32:35.280 But in any event, normally this thing, they don't even do anything about it.

00:32:38.540 But if they do, community service, a small fine.

00:32:42.000 But when they brought the full force of the government against me, and it ended up I was

00:32:46.220 eight months in overnight confinement, paid a fine and a bunch of things, it was very

00:32:52.880 eye-opening because I saw that these guys did not view me as just a dissident or even

00:32:59.340 a political opponent.

00:33:00.860 They saw me as an enemy.

00:33:02.600 Right.

00:33:02.700 And the way they looked at it is, we got to take this guy out.

00:33:06.000 And I'm convinced that those Obama lawyers, if they could have put me away for 10 years,

00:33:09.800 10 years, they would have done it.

00:33:11.820 Yeah.

00:33:12.040 And so I'm like, you know what?

00:33:13.360 This is, there's a gangsterization that's in the U.S. government now that I didn't see

00:33:17.840 before.

00:33:18.400 And it's got to reorient my politics.

00:33:21.940 And it doesn't reorient my philosophy, but it reorients my career and the way I approach

00:33:27.100 things.

00:33:28.080 So you were asking me why I sort of have the fire, as you put it.

00:33:31.760 I think that's where it comes from.

00:33:33.100 It comes from the realization that we're not living in a lawful small town where I can be

00:33:38.160 like Jimmy Stewart and the man who shot Liberty Valance, which is, okay, listen, guys, things

00:33:42.140 are getting out of control.

00:33:42.960 Let me go to my law books and find a legal precedent.

00:33:45.340 No, I'm more like a guy with a covered wagon out West and there's outlaws circling my ranch 0.99

00:33:50.800 and they want to, you know, burn my homestead and like rape my wife, kill my kids. 0.99

00:33:54.400 And so I'm going to have to respond to that situation. 0.99

00:33:58.380 And if I talk about, let me go find a legal precedent, you know, I would be, I would show

00:34:03.980 no grasp of the situation as it is.

00:34:07.040 Right.

00:34:07.460 Right.

00:34:08.620 I feel the same thing was done to me too.

00:34:11.200 They were not happy to, it wasn't enough for them to cancel their number, the only number

00:34:19.860 one show they've had for decades, but to humiliate me and call me a racist for a tweet they didn't

00:34:26.800 understand was about Iran.

00:34:28.660 They didn't understand one word of it.

00:34:30.640 But it had the word Muslim Brotherhood in it and they can pretend all they want that it 0.91

00:34:39.060 was something else.

00:34:40.140 But then they stole all my work, my lifetime of work by lying to me.

00:34:46.800 And then they continued to call me a racist after I signed the paper, agreeing with them 1.00

00:34:53.940 that they would stop.

00:34:55.680 Then they continued and refused to let me on any television anywhere to explain.

00:35:03.760 So that, and then I found out that they were in communication with the Obama government administration

00:35:11.320 people, Valerie Jarrett and Michelle, and that Obama called them after to congratulate them

00:35:16.900 for doing that to me, for taking away any way of me supporting my large family, which

00:35:23.480 I've done for 30 years.

00:35:25.540 They did all that to me over a tweet.

00:35:27.840 They didn't understand, refused to allow me to explain.

00:35:31.220 So I know it too.

00:35:32.760 I'm lucky that I didn't get to go to jail, but I kind of understand how Trump feels too

00:35:41.340 when every case, one after the other, is thrown out and laughed out of court.

00:35:46.900 But they don't care about that because they only care about the immediate soundbite.

00:35:51.660 Yeah.

00:35:52.020 You know, when I got the overnight confinement, I said to myself, I know what their goal is.

00:35:56.800 Their goal here is to degrade me, but more importantly, to ruin my career.

00:36:04.220 De-platform.

00:36:04.940 To shut me off.

00:36:05.700 Yeah.

00:36:05.960 Right?

00:36:06.600 So I said to myself, if I come out of this and I have a career that's bigger than it was

00:36:10.980 before I went in, then I win.

00:36:13.000 Right.

00:36:13.600 But if I come out and I can't get work and no one wants me to speak anymore and I can't

00:36:17.780 write a book because nobody wants to publish it, then they've won.

00:36:20.480 Right.

00:36:20.840 So that's the clear measure of who's going to come out ahead of this.

00:36:24.480 Yeah.

00:36:24.620 Um, and, and so I resolved to myself, whatever I do, who cares about being in the overnight

00:36:30.140 confinement?

00:36:30.820 I mean, to me, that was like mildly amusing, but it's like, when I get out, I got to make

00:36:34.840 sure that they don't succeed.

00:36:36.780 Right.

00:36:37.320 And, and I need to continue to make good films and continue to have a voice.

00:36:41.320 Of course, Trump's pardon helped me immensely because it just, it was a big up yours to the

00:36:46.280 Obama administration.

00:36:47.380 And he knew that and I knew that.

00:36:49.080 So, but yes, the, the, uh, uh, the pressure on Trump is unbelievable.

00:36:55.160 I don't know how any human being puts up with it.

00:36:57.540 I don't know how he does it.

00:36:58.540 I don't know how he does it either, but I have to say he didn't give me a pardon because

00:37:02.960 I wasn't charged with anything other than being a racist after 30 years on the air as the most

00:37:10.260 progressive voice on television.

00:37:11.840 But he did say, and I have it on tape, he said, you are so skinny.

00:37:20.100 That's your pardon?

00:37:21.120 So that, so that was kind of my, you know, my, whatever you call it.

00:37:26.700 Presidential pardon.

00:37:27.180 It is, it's the equivalent of the greatest thing that he's ever done.

00:37:30.760 But I mean, Rosanne, I think what is so weird is, I mean, I remember, I, I think of your

00:37:35.540 personality as from TV and that it was that very kind of sarcastic, tell it like it is

00:37:43.520 like unmask the hypocrisy of ordinary language, all that humor.

00:37:48.800 Yeah.

00:37:48.980 And I do find it unbelievable that they can cancel somebody when you've developed a whole

00:37:55.600 persona and it's all like what you said, one tweet gone.

00:38:00.820 I mean, that is, that's Soviet stuff.

00:38:03.400 Yeah.

00:38:03.580 It is Soviet.

00:38:04.140 Oh, it was so Stalinist.

00:38:06.100 I couldn't believe it, but it started like as a gauntlet from day one.

00:38:11.080 And I wasn't aware of the small steps until looking back, like you say, looking back, I

00:38:16.660 was like, Oh, and then at the end it was like, Oh, they only wanted me to come back because

00:38:24.020 I liked Trump and was, you know, no noted for that.

00:38:28.420 But they only wanted to bring me back to destroy me.

00:38:33.800 I think that's true.

00:38:34.860 And my friends who are white hat people, you know, confirm that. 0.83

00:38:41.500 And I was like, Oh, my God. 0.99

00:38:43.880 And here I was like an idiot going, I think I could help unite Americans. 0.99

00:38:49.340 And I could have a Hillary hater and a Trump hater in the same family. 0.99

00:38:53.020 But yet they still loved each other because I was so concerned with the division going on

00:38:59.300 that the media was propelling, especially race division.

00:39:03.400 And I just, I knew what they were doing, just setting these kids up for mass arrest and drafting.

00:39:08.700 I knew they were going to do that.

00:39:10.720 You know, all these kids, they're all going to go get drafted.

00:39:14.220 Antifa, BLM, they're either going to go to prison, get shot or get drafted. 0.99

00:39:20.100 That's what's going to happen. 1.00

00:39:21.500 But they're too stupid or brainwashed to even see that's what happens in a police state. 1.00

00:39:26.720 What do they think? 1.00

00:39:27.300 They're going to start living in Beverly Hills under a communist regime?

00:39:31.340 They do.

00:39:32.300 They do think that.

00:39:33.520 And the irony is that a police state will go after them too eventually.

00:39:37.780 It doesn't go after them now.

00:39:39.200 And I explained this in the film.

00:39:40.600 Because they're useful.

00:39:41.440 Exactly.

00:39:42.600 They're a part of the constituency that's helping to build the police state.

00:39:46.160 Right.

00:39:46.360 But once the police state is built, it doesn't need them anymore.

00:39:49.580 Stalin killed a lot of communists and a lot of socialists.

00:39:52.620 Yeah.

00:39:53.100 And so they won't be safe either.

00:39:55.280 They're safe now.

00:39:56.100 And so they will, you know, they'll watch this film.

00:39:57.860 They'll be like, Dinesh, you know, I don't have to worry about being banned on Facebook or being arrested.

00:40:04.920 And I'm like, yeah, but that's because you're helping to build the police state.

00:40:09.280 You're part of its constituency.

00:40:11.380 Right.

00:40:12.280 No less than the illegals coming across the border are.

00:40:15.400 Why do you think they're letting all those people in?

00:40:17.080 Yeah.

00:40:17.280 If not to provide the voting base.

00:40:19.540 To replace you.

00:40:21.440 Exactly.

00:40:22.100 To create a one-party state. 1.00

00:40:24.600 They're all dipshits. 1.00

00:40:25.640 So I get so damn sick of it. 1.00

00:40:28.060 I'm sick of it.

00:40:29.720 I don't know how, what else we can do to wake people up except for this film.

00:40:36.540 I think it's going to wake a lot of people up.

00:40:38.160 So I'm grateful for it and grateful for you and all your films.

00:40:44.100 Let's talk about your other one, 2,000 Mules.

00:40:46.240 Trump said down at Mar-a-Lago when I was there.

00:40:49.620 He goes, you can't find that film anywhere.

00:40:52.740 Well.

00:40:53.100 So I went online to search and it's very, very difficult.

00:40:56.060 It is.

00:40:56.500 They censored that out of existence.

00:40:58.160 Yeah.

00:40:58.420 It is a little hard to find.

00:40:59.500 However, about a month ago, maybe two months ago, I approached the Twitter people.

00:41:07.680 This is Elon Musk's team, not Elon himself.

00:41:10.820 And I'm like, you know what?

00:41:12.500 I need to counter this blockage of 2,000 Mules. 0.90

00:41:17.640 I'm going to put it up on X for free.

00:41:20.560 Oh, smart.

00:41:21.240 And so the Twitter people, to their credit, were very helpful to us.

00:41:24.620 They said, okay, this is how you do it.

00:41:27.080 And so I released it.

00:41:28.400 I put it up on X for free, some 3 million.

00:41:31.360 I mean, there were about 20 million people that had seen the film, but we got another 3 million on Twitter.

00:41:37.040 And so I put it up for free.

00:41:38.960 It wasn't permanent.

00:41:39.880 I put it up for like a week.

00:41:41.480 And it got a really good audience.

00:41:44.320 And I might do that again.

00:41:45.360 So there are ways to counter this sort of thing.

00:41:48.820 And at this point, our goal with 2,000 Mules is just to keep the message out there.

00:41:53.100 Because, as you know, they are not going to hesitate to try some shenanigans in 2024.

00:41:59.000 They may not try the same ones, but they will definitely be looking for opportunities to cheat.

00:42:03.360 I have no doubt about that.

00:42:04.920 Hopefully the Trump people, hopefully the RNC, hopefully there are people who are on the lookout for that.

00:42:10.380 And they're going to be able to thwart it.

00:42:12.440 But that the attempt will be made, I have no doubt.

00:42:16.120 Well, I think that there won't be a 2024 election.

00:42:20.720 But, you know, I'm thinking that, well, I won't go into that.

00:42:25.760 Yeah.

00:42:26.120 But I don't think there will be.

00:42:27.940 You think there will be a declared emergency and then they will suspend the election?

00:42:33.140 Well, that's one thing that could happen.

00:42:35.580 She thinks, she should never come out and say, tell me if I'm wrong.

00:42:38.300 You think they're going to catch the fraud from 2020 and overturn it?

00:42:42.080 Of course.

00:42:42.340 And give the presidency to Trump?

00:42:44.740 I do.

00:42:45.080 We're in year three, so.

00:42:46.560 I know, but that's what I think.

00:42:48.220 Because people don't realize that ABC and CBS and NBC and MSNBC and CNN and Fox, they're not the ones that do the actual count of the votes.

00:43:01.220 Right.

00:43:01.780 It's the military.

00:43:02.940 And Trump told us that, if anybody would ever listen to anything he says, which they don't.

00:43:10.140 But the military has all the proof, and Trump said it.

00:43:13.780 They have the watermark ballots.

00:43:15.720 They've got all the proof of what was done.

00:43:18.720 And it will come to light.

00:43:20.940 And I think it will come to light in his trial in March, if it goes that long.

00:43:27.140 I don't think it will.

00:43:28.200 I think it will be this year.

00:43:29.800 And they've already overturned one election of 2022 in Philadelphia, and the wheel is starting to roll.

00:43:37.400 And they're looking at another election of 2022, and the judge, it's at SCOTUS.

00:43:44.680 Democrat judge.

00:43:45.940 Yeah.

00:43:46.540 Did you see that yesterday?

00:43:47.440 It was a Democrat judge, but judge, why can't I remember his name?

00:43:54.080 Clarence Thomas.

00:43:55.000 Yeah, he's going to be the deciding vote on the 2022.

00:43:58.720 There's been, the problem I have with this theory is.

00:44:01.000 I have no doubt that Trump has everything.

00:44:06.160 He has, I mean, they went and got, you know, I don't know.

00:44:10.140 Everybody says, I'm a cutard.

00:44:11.480 Well, I will say, I mean, I will tell you that, and I'm going to do a film next year for the election.

00:44:16.140 But it's hard to do, because we are in such uncharted waters.

00:44:19.320 Yeah.

00:44:19.620 That's true.

00:44:20.040 You know, they're trying to put Trump in jail.

00:44:23.420 So imagine an election where the Republican candidate of a major party is in prison and running from prison.

00:44:32.620 It could happen.

00:44:33.260 Wow.

00:44:33.520 It could happen.

00:44:34.280 Yeah.

00:44:34.400 It's, I don't even know what the psychological impact that will have on America and the world.

00:44:40.940 Yeah.

00:44:41.380 Oh, everyone will love it.

00:44:43.100 I think it sounds great.

00:44:43.460 You know, even what's his name?

00:44:44.540 Some Democrats said the other day, don't put him in jail, because he'll definitely win if you do.

00:44:51.400 It's probably true.

00:44:52.760 Wouldn't that be the best show?

00:44:54.160 He's been reelected.

00:44:55.340 He's elected, but he has to serve out his term first.

00:44:58.360 So he's going to be making, for the first three months, he's going to be making all his decisions from incarceration.

00:45:03.740 Right.

00:45:04.620 But then he's just, he assumed, or whatever the word is, until he's sworn in.

00:45:09.200 Yeah.

00:45:09.380 But there's all this evidence that things are going to turn, and corruption is at an end,

00:45:18.260 and America's going to save itself at the very last minute.

00:45:23.660 I mean, that's, you know, there's an old saying that the God looks out for drunks and little children and the United States of America.

00:45:33.620 And I sort of do believe that.

00:45:35.120 I kind of do, too.

00:45:36.180 Yeah.

00:45:36.460 I mean, I kind of believe that we'll come out okay in the end.

00:45:38.960 It's my natural temperament.

00:45:41.020 But it's not the mood of police state.

00:45:43.320 I mean, the film is creepy.

00:45:45.100 That's what I want to say.

00:45:45.820 And that's what's so important about the movie, because here's the best thing that could happen.

00:45:51.940 A hundred million people see it, and they go, oh, hell, we've got to wake up and tell everybody.

00:45:58.540 So 200, 300 million, I don't know how many populations we have here.

00:46:02.340 360.

00:46:03.160 360.

00:46:04.140 And everybody's like, hell no.

00:46:06.740 And, I mean, it has the potential to wake everybody up.

00:46:10.200 It speaks on a grassroots level.

00:46:13.100 It's not hoity-toity.

00:46:14.580 It's not overly religious.

00:46:16.920 It's not preaching to the choir.

00:46:18.660 It speaks to everybody, and the hope is that everybody will see it, and it will help wake people up.

00:46:24.820 It's in plain language.

00:46:26.380 It's in black and white.

00:46:27.720 It's all facts and things that have already happened, people who have survived it all, people who are there to tell their stories.

00:46:35.800 It's just a great American piece, and long may it wave.

00:46:41.380 I'm really proud of you.

00:46:43.340 Well, thank you.

00:46:44.380 It's not a film I wanted to make.

00:46:46.780 You know, who wants to be in a situation where this kind of film needs to be made, but it does.

00:46:51.900 That's true.

00:46:52.320 And I think you're right that there is a streak in the American character that isn't okay with this kind of oppression, that Americans are feistier than Canadians or New Zealanders, for that matter.

00:47:11.160 Well, because we all have a Hillary hater and a Trump hater in our same family, like I was trying to show on TV.

00:47:17.480 And we all love each other.

00:47:19.620 I mean, some of us have stopped talking to each other and over the vaccine, too, in my own family.

00:47:24.500 But we still all love each other, and if it gets worse and the bottom falls out, it's not going to matter to us who the other one voted for.

00:47:34.720 We're going to help each other.

00:47:37.160 No, absolutely.

00:47:38.540 Absolutely.

00:47:40.680 I think that's right.

00:47:42.780 The country has gone through a lot before.

00:47:44.700 It's not like we haven't been there before.

00:47:47.360 We obviously had a civil war.

00:47:50.140 But it's different now.

00:47:51.360 It's different now because of the convergence of media and big tech.

00:47:55.400 And, I mean, it's a much – let me just say this.

00:47:59.400 I watched your film last night.

00:48:01.900 It was scarier to me than – or, well, than reading 1984.

00:48:06.220 And you might have a positive feeling like, oh, we're going to get together.

00:48:09.740 I didn't sleep last night after watching.

00:48:11.500 I woke up probably more terrified than I've ever been.

00:48:14.940 And I have to say your film is scarier than 1984, mostly because it's real and we're here now.

00:48:21.340 But what happened to me this morning is I started thinking we might be too – pardon me for being pessimistic – but we might be too far down that rabbit hole.

00:48:30.020 Because even when you're making this movie now, we know that the other side is not going to want to watch it.

00:48:35.460 They're not going to be open to watching a Dinesh D'Souza film about the police state.

00:48:38.740 It's going to be another right-wing conspiracy theory, another Russia disinforced.

00:48:41.880 It's going to be another push for deplatforming and everything – 0.96

00:48:46.020 Another hunter laptop.

00:48:47.160 Yeah.

00:48:47.560 But it's just going to be like, oh, these people, they think the election was rigged.

00:48:50.860 They think the police state.

00:48:52.160 But you actually are interviewing people that have had the FBI bang their door down, PTA members.

00:48:57.420 And when you're watching, you're like, it's here.

00:48:59.820 It is here.

00:49:00.660 It's not coming.

00:49:02.260 It's here.

00:49:03.120 I'll tell you why I'm more positive than you because I'm going to be 71 tomorrow and I'm going to die my way out of this.

00:49:09.900 Yeah, but I'm going to be –

00:49:10.920 I'm here with a two-year-old.

00:49:13.340 I can't.

00:49:13.920 I know.

00:49:14.200 I can't.

00:49:14.820 I mean, I don't want to be in an internment camp.

00:49:16.480 Well, that's why I'm more positive.

00:49:16.880 Yeah.

00:49:18.140 I'm not – I mean, the American spirit is the enemy of this push, whatever this is.

00:49:24.120 This communist, this left-wing.

00:49:25.560 They can't kill us.

00:49:26.080 They can't.

00:49:26.400 The Eastern.

00:49:26.980 They can.

00:49:27.800 No, because we – I believe and know because I've seen it.

00:49:34.500 We're the Americans.

00:49:35.960 Yeah.

00:49:36.080 That means everything.

00:49:37.220 We're the Americans.

00:49:39.060 Hell, we –

00:49:40.300 That's what I want to talk about.

00:49:42.120 We went – what was that, beach?

00:49:44.820 They knew they was going to get shot.

00:49:46.500 Yeah.

00:49:47.040 They knew they were giving their lives to storm that beach, and they did it.

00:49:50.780 They knew they were going to die, and they did it.

00:49:53.520 Yeah.

00:49:53.820 And we've done that.

00:49:55.080 We did it.

00:49:55.960 I mean, once you do that, you don't come back from that, no matter how many other unjust

00:50:01.200 wars they made them kids go through for money and oil.

00:50:04.300 But that day, that's something that takes over your DNA, and it cannot be destroyed because

00:50:11.720 everybody can remember it, and they can watch it on film.

00:50:14.180 It can't be destroyed.

00:50:15.800 It's still here.

00:50:16.760 I know it.

00:50:17.600 I'm praying for it.

00:50:18.860 I do believe prayer.

00:50:20.860 I always talk about it.

00:50:22.560 I pray to God he wakes some people up.

00:50:25.660 Well, that's what's scary.

00:50:26.860 Before they walk off the gank plank.

00:50:29.640 But think about this.

00:50:30.320 You talk about storming Normandy in World War II, which is true.

00:50:32.940 That is the American spirit.

00:50:34.220 We're all armed.

00:50:34.880 We're all outlaws.

00:50:35.560 We want to fight this oppressive system.

00:50:37.040 They use that in a perfect, which you cover in your film, in basically a cloaking maneuver

00:50:44.400 on January 6th.

00:50:45.540 We were there saying, stop the steal.

00:50:47.160 We were a peaceful protest.

00:50:49.160 You know, Ray Epps is like, let's storm the Capitol.

00:50:50.800 They know that we want to fight.

00:50:52.400 They know that we're boiling over.

00:50:53.700 That's why the FBI is watching us.

00:50:55.180 That's why there is a police state forming.

00:50:56.540 However, Nancy Pelosi was just subpoenaed. 0.98

00:51:00.220 I know.

00:51:00.580 But I'm saying, they also know our moves and maneuvers.

00:51:04.460 And they actually can walk us into traps.

00:51:06.520 They know we're angry.

00:51:07.460 So we have to be.

00:51:08.660 It's not just like, oh, we're Americans. 0.95

00:51:10.260 Shoot guns.

00:51:11.160 We have to be much, much smarter. 0.97

00:51:12.560 We are.

00:51:12.920 Because it is much scarier.

00:51:13.840 Well, we're organizing.

00:51:15.200 Your film is great because it is sequential.

00:51:17.360 It does do it.

00:51:17.940 I know that we can go, hey, A, B, C, D, E, and we can all talk about it now.

00:51:22.300 But half this country doesn't even consider what we're saying.

00:51:26.720 Well, that's right.

00:51:27.680 And they think we're crazy.

00:51:28.460 I think it's because the country is...

00:51:32.280 Brainwashed?

00:51:33.680 Well, no.

00:51:34.840 It's a little bit like, you know, the nature channel where you see the antelope or the wildebeest.

00:51:39.880 And they're sort of grazing happily.

00:51:42.400 Yeah.

00:51:42.580 And there's a desire in human nature to believe that things can't really go horribly wrong.

00:51:48.920 Yeah.

00:51:49.160 Or even though I say, hey, guys, there's a predator in the trees.

00:51:52.620 They're like, no, Dinesh, it's just the wind.

00:51:54.540 Right.

00:51:54.900 Or he's going to jump.

00:51:55.960 But he's not going to come on my back.

00:51:57.180 He's going to land on somebody else's back.

00:51:58.980 So there is a denialism.

00:52:00.720 Yeah, it could never happen to me.

00:52:02.180 Never happened here.

00:52:03.060 It never happened to me.

00:52:05.280 But I think as word gets out that it is happening, and that's what the film is powerful here,

00:52:11.920 but it's happening now to more ordinary people.

00:52:14.800 Yes.

00:52:15.040 And so they've got neighbors.

00:52:16.560 They've got friends.

00:52:17.280 They've got family.

00:52:17.960 So the word is getting out.

00:52:19.580 And you're right.

00:52:20.340 The other side is they know that, too.

00:52:22.840 Right.

00:52:23.080 So they're amping up the tyrannical surveillance.

00:52:28.660 Yeah.

00:52:28.940 And all the other measures that they have.

00:52:30.660 You know, I'm doing a series on my podcast on Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago.

00:52:35.740 Yeah.

00:52:35.980 And there's a scene in the opening pages where a woman is approached by a friend of hers in the marketplace.

00:52:41.100 And the friend says to her, go to the train station, get out of town.

00:52:45.580 You're on a list.

00:52:46.580 They're going to come to get you.

00:52:48.320 And the woman goes, I can't go now. 0.98

00:52:50.820 I have to go pack.

00:52:52.300 So she goes back to her apartment.

00:52:55.220 Sure enough, they're waiting for her.

00:52:57.280 They arrest her.

00:52:58.840 She's never heard from again.

00:53:00.000 But then Solzhenitsyn comments this.

00:53:01.680 He says, it is too bad that she didn't go to this train station.

00:53:06.400 She could have disappeared in the vastness of Mother Russia.

00:53:09.340 And they would never have found her.

00:53:11.900 But see, that's not true today.

00:53:13.580 Right.

00:53:14.140 With cell phone technology, with surveillance.

00:53:16.220 Right.

00:53:16.580 That's what I'm getting at.

00:53:17.160 It shows you that we are in a different situation where our privacy is gone.

00:53:23.840 Yes, it is.

00:53:24.640 And a police state can take advantage of technology and make it a real instrument of tyranny.

00:53:29.780 I mean, Orwell was prophetic about that.

00:53:31.840 Not the details of it, but the idea of it.

00:53:33.960 Yeah, 100%.

00:53:35.000 So...

00:53:35.840 Oh, it's terrifying.

00:53:36.660 And we're willingly using these spying devices.

00:53:40.260 I don't have one in my pocket now.

00:53:41.500 I mean, we're being tracked.

00:53:43.300 I know people that are off the grid.

00:53:44.680 We sell satellite phones, but everyone has iPhones.

00:53:47.840 They're tracked.

00:53:48.480 Let me say one thing.

00:53:49.880 Of course.

00:53:51.340 It goes two ways.

00:53:55.440 All of that surveillance, all of that no privacy, it goes two ways.

00:54:03.900 You're saying it applies to them, too?

00:54:05.940 Oh, yeah.

00:54:07.100 Yeah.

00:54:07.420 There's a digital footprint for oppression.

00:54:10.380 Yeah.

00:54:10.800 I mean, in other words, what you're saying is we can track them in the end.

00:54:14.760 And you can actually also hold them accountable.

00:54:16.740 That's what Trump said.

00:54:17.220 Think about it this way.

00:54:18.000 If Trump comes in, he could unleash a full discovery of all the police state tactics that have been going on,

00:54:26.620 all the laws that are being broken right now.

00:54:29.620 And you could have a festival of arrests.

00:54:34.560 I think the left, by the way, knows this also.

00:54:36.800 Yeah, they do.

00:54:36.880 This is why they're even more desperate never to have him in because they're like, oh, shoot.

00:54:41.420 Yeah.

00:54:41.600 You know, we've got all these.

00:54:44.180 He's going to find out.

00:54:44.960 We're going to have to burn all these papers.

00:54:46.640 And these days, you can't burn them because it still remains as a digital footprint of everything we're doing.

00:54:51.460 Yeah.

00:54:53.540 Well, what do you think we can do?

00:55:00.040 Well, I think this is a war on many fronts.

00:55:03.000 Part of it is the presidency, which can fix a lot of things.

00:55:07.520 And the police state is bigger than the FBI.

00:55:09.560 People say, you're making a film of the FBI.

00:55:11.300 No, Department of Homeland Security is 10 times bigger than the FBI.

00:55:15.080 That place needs to be renovated from top to bottom.

00:55:17.660 And so controlling the executive branch allows you to do a lot of reforms.

00:55:23.400 But you still need the legislature to pass good laws.

00:55:26.740 And then you need the Supreme Court to shut down censorship.

00:55:31.500 And then you need, I'd like to see more activity at the state level.

00:55:34.940 Yes.

00:55:35.260 On the part of AGs, attorneys general, secretaries of state, governors.

00:55:39.400 I mean, when we start doing the same to the left, I think it will send them a message.

00:55:44.380 We were talking a little bit earlier about how, once you have these Harvard and Columbia

00:55:49.920 Hamas advocates, and suddenly their names are on a list, and corporations are like,

00:55:54.960 we're not going to hire those guys.

00:55:56.080 They start screaming, free speech.

00:55:58.240 You know, they discover the virtues of free speech when their free speech is being threatened.

00:56:03.220 Right.

00:56:03.480 And similarly, I think if you took, if a Republican attorney general right now in Texas, let's

00:56:09.460 say, were to indict Mayorkas for child trafficking.

00:56:14.040 Why?

00:56:14.780 I'll call him right now.

00:56:15.840 Call him right now.

00:56:17.060 We know Ken.

00:56:18.020 Yeah.

00:56:18.700 It is.

00:56:19.540 I think he will.

00:56:20.780 Yeah.

00:56:21.120 Do it because it's going on.

00:56:23.420 They know about it.

00:56:24.240 They're ignoring it because they don't care.

00:56:26.300 Right.

00:56:26.500 And it is a crime.

00:56:28.280 And so I'm not even saying fabricate a case.

00:56:30.860 I'm saying there is a legitimate case to make.

00:56:33.300 Republicans don't think like this.

00:56:34.820 Republicans are like, well, that's never been done before, so we're not going to do it.

00:56:38.600 Or we're too principled to do to the other side what they're doing to us.

00:56:42.540 Or we're better than that.

00:56:43.640 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:56:44.500 They're just putting the money in the pocket.

00:56:46.800 That is so apparent.

00:56:48.620 There's no two parties.

00:56:50.860 It's the Uniparty, and they're all making bank on selling us out. 1.00

00:56:55.760 Am I right?

00:56:56.640 I think there's a lot of truth to that.

00:56:58.320 I mean, I do think there are some good guys around.

00:57:00.480 Oh, I do too.

00:57:01.600 But I think that the swamp does run pretty deep.

00:57:06.160 But what about, like, when you say state government, let's get even more specific because it is about local government.

00:57:14.800 Decent humans have to run for these local offices. 0.99

00:57:18.460 And it should not take, I think they should get money out of politics right away.

00:57:23.800 And only somebody with a decent resume, and I'm saying that the resume should say like this.

00:57:29.360 I've lived in this community for 25 years.

00:57:31.540 I've helped this many people.

00:57:33.140 I've done this many good deeds.

00:57:35.160 And these people know me.

00:57:36.860 So that's my qualifications and my resume to run for office.

00:57:40.840 Right?

00:57:41.340 Right.

00:57:42.000 Start from the get-go.

00:57:43.860 This is what the ordinary guy can do.

00:57:45.400 Run for school board, get involved in local elections, become, my wife, Debbie, was a poll observer, poll judge.

00:57:53.300 You know what?

00:57:53.760 It's a volunteer thing.

00:57:55.020 If you have the time, go do it.

00:57:57.180 Keep an eye on the process.

00:57:58.980 That's going to be a nice check against election fraud.

00:58:01.820 And so there are things that can be done institutionally, and then there are things that can be done on the individual level.

00:58:08.340 Yeah. 0.98

00:58:08.640 But the people have to do it, not sit on their ass waiting for Trump or anybody else. 0.99

00:58:13.980 We have to do it ourselves. 0.98

00:58:15.680 And people don't like to hear that.

00:58:17.640 But, you know, if you've got extra time to sit there on your phone being tracked, take that time and do something useful for your community.

00:58:25.940 Right?

00:58:27.060 Yeah.

00:58:27.520 I also think that, and for me, this has been, I think, a boost in doing the stuff I do, and that is take the whole thing with a grain of salt and make it fun.

00:58:39.540 In other words, if you think of politics as something that's like a major drag, then, and even people come to me, Dinesh, you're so brave.

00:58:46.520 You're, I'm like, actually, to me, the whole thing's fun.

00:58:49.640 That's cool. 0.98

00:58:49.800 These people are crazy. 0.97

00:58:51.540 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:58:52.020 I like driving them nuts.

00:58:53.500 Yeah. 0.54

00:58:54.060 I do, too.

00:58:55.100 And the more they get discombobulated, the more, to me, it's a measure of how effective I am.

00:59:00.660 I'm like, yeah, you're shaking.

00:59:01.840 That's a really good sign.

00:59:03.200 You know, I'm obviously getting to you.

00:59:04.980 So how can I get you to shake some more?

00:59:06.700 I've seen you on college campuses giving speeches and just triggering people.

00:59:10.400 It is fun to watch.

00:59:11.680 You are very good at it.

00:59:13.280 Well, I listen to them.

00:59:14.020 What's that fire?

00:59:15.080 Yeah.

00:59:15.380 Does that all come from your, that seems like it's bone deep, like that does come from colonial India.

00:59:23.040 It does.

00:59:24.040 I don't really know.

00:59:25.680 I think it does go back to my college days.

00:59:28.520 And I do like that kind of give and take, particularly on the campus.

00:59:33.680 I don't speak on campuses that much these days because after COVID, it's been kind of hard to get on the campus.

00:59:39.700 And so I don't do that much anymore.

00:59:41.560 But I do enjoy talking to young people about their ideas.

00:59:46.100 And I do appreciate their idealism, even if they're on the left.

00:59:49.720 Yeah.

00:59:49.840 But what I do find amusing is that you've got some guy who's like, you know, 20 years old, knows nothing about life, hasn't really read that many books.

00:59:58.580 But they are completely confident that they know more than you do.

01:00:01.920 Yeah, I know.

01:00:02.920 That's their starting point.

01:00:04.420 Remember being that way?

01:00:05.540 Mr. D'Souza, has it occurred to you?

01:00:06.980 I'm like, yes, this has occurred to me.

01:00:09.500 In fact, this is what I heard yesterday.

01:00:11.160 Do you remember being like that when you were 20, though?

01:00:16.700 I guess so.

01:00:17.620 I guess that is right.

01:00:19.560 Oh, boy.

01:00:19.960 You thought you had it all figured out when you were 20.

01:00:22.660 I did.

01:00:24.420 I guess we all do.

01:00:24.880 I really thought I knew it all.

01:00:26.860 And then it's like the big beat down.

01:00:28.880 Hey, it's nothing like I thought at all.

01:00:32.560 Well, because then you start working and going out in the real world and it shifts you.

01:00:35.900 That's why they say people get more conservative as they get older.

01:00:39.040 They have to start paying taxes and taking care of family.

01:00:41.080 And it's like, oh, that idealism I had at 718, it's not really that black and white.

01:00:46.140 Yeah, well, you're around other idealists.

01:00:48.600 And it is the time to think. 0.97

01:00:50.260 But you think they would be trained to think with the right kind of thinking machinery rather than closing down their neural pathways and repeat and parroting bullshit narratives.

01:01:06.060 They'd actually be able to apply, you know, critical thinking skills.

01:01:11.500 Yeah, how do I use this idealism to work in the real world? 0.99

01:01:14.740 How do I adjust so that I can actually impact change instead of how do what they're doing is like, how do I find other people that will listen to my bullshit and we'll all sit around and sniff each other's farts for 45 minutes. 0.97

01:01:23.340 And then we'll beat people up that don't listen to us. 0.98

01:01:25.620 That's it.

01:01:26.280 It should be like, let's go out in the real world and let's let's make because there's nothing wrong with it.

01:01:30.400 Let's go out in the real world and run for school board.

01:01:33.480 Yeah, well, let's not let.

01:01:34.700 Well, no, not that.

01:01:35.640 Yeah, you guys keep sniffing your eyes.

01:01:37.080 No, not them.

01:01:37.960 There's very little, I think, today, critical thinking being taught in colleges.

01:01:42.740 None.

01:01:42.920 And here's a proof of it.

01:01:44.160 If you were to take a very good college, take the best students and just start them like this.

01:01:50.020 Say, all right, you think and you've been taught that America is a racist society.

01:01:56.360 Give me five reasons against that, that undercut.

01:02:01.200 Can you think of five reasons that undermine that idea?

01:02:04.420 They'll be like, what do you mean, Dinesh?

01:02:06.340 What are you saying?

01:02:07.640 I'm like, you're supposed to be a critical thinker.

01:02:10.080 Anticipate what are the objections.

01:02:12.000 Now, you may think you can answer those objections, but let's hear them.

01:02:14.860 What are five objections to the idea that America is a racist society?

01:02:18.140 And I bet you, typical student will be like, I don't know what to say.

01:02:21.240 I don't know what to say.

01:02:22.360 It's because their mind is so fried and benumbed that they are incapable of even envisioning objections to their point of view.

01:02:31.920 And that shows that our colleges are doing a horrible job.

01:02:35.000 Well, look who they get for professors. 0.97

01:02:38.300 I mean, where do they get those clowns, the most part? 0.95

01:02:41.920 I mean, of course, there's good ones. 0.84

01:02:43.860 Yeah.

01:02:44.400 But that's the first place they started their censorship was on campus.

01:02:48.940 Anybody who was teaching anything that wasn't fake.

01:02:53.640 Absolutely.

01:02:54.920 I noticed something interesting happening even in the 90s and early 2000s.

01:02:58.500 I was doing a lot of debates on campus, and I noticed that professors on the left would refuse to debate me.

01:03:03.940 And I thought, well, that's odd.

01:03:05.060 I mean, I'm a smart guy.

01:03:06.200 I don't have a PhD.

01:03:07.540 You know your field.

01:03:08.960 We're talking about a subject on which you are supposed to be an expert.

01:03:12.600 Right.

01:03:13.160 And so the fact that you're unwilling to engage in public discussion tells me that something is really off here.

01:03:22.540 And I think it's that these guys at some level knew that what they're doing is propaganda.

01:03:28.620 Right.

01:03:29.060 And they just couldn't.

01:03:30.820 And the same is true in the media.

01:03:32.220 I mean, in my early career, I was on CNN all the time.

01:03:34.960 I was on with Don Lemon.

01:03:37.120 I was on Crossfire all the time.

01:03:39.620 And then suddenly, the lights went out.

01:03:43.060 It's like, if we have a CNN panel, it's going to be 17 people who all think the same.

01:03:48.100 Right.

01:03:48.500 I concur with what this guy said.

01:03:50.300 I concur also.

01:03:51.260 And it's like, what kind of discussion is this?

01:03:53.680 I can't even hear a different point of view.

01:03:56.680 And so all of these are just the signs that the state of our intellectual culture is pathological.

01:04:03.280 Yes.

01:04:03.580 Yes.

01:04:04.080 I always say that two things that Stalinists and fascists hate is one, humor, and two, discussion.

01:04:14.780 Yeah.

01:04:14.900 You know, that's a very profound point.

01:04:17.960 Humor is lethal to the police state.

01:04:20.460 And that's why one of the things that they've done pretty successfully, not entirely, but

01:04:25.420 pretty successfully, is sort of shut down comedy.

01:04:28.320 And in other words, put comedy into a lane where the comedians just are too terrified to go...

01:04:34.580 There's self-editing.

01:04:35.120 Self-editing.

01:04:35.440 Yeah.

01:04:35.680 Self-editing.

01:04:36.440 Self-censor.

01:04:36.960 That's right.

01:04:38.240 Because, I mean, just think of...

01:04:39.320 I mean, look at Biden.

01:04:40.340 Look at Hunter Biden.

01:04:41.440 I mean, look at the targets of opportunity.

01:04:43.460 I know.

01:04:44.060 Right?

01:04:44.720 Kamala?

01:04:45.420 Are you kidding me?

01:04:46.800 Exactly.

01:04:47.480 The whole operation.

01:04:48.400 But the comedians won't go there because they know that that's, like, sacrosanct.

01:04:53.540 Right.

01:04:54.060 They'll get blackballed.

01:04:55.460 They get blackballed.

01:04:56.200 When I was doing the reboot of my show, and it was about a Hillary hater living with a Trump

01:05:01.800 hater, right?

01:05:03.220 And hates...

01:05:06.400 Well, they were, yeah, they were haters.

01:05:08.940 But anyway, so I would sit there all day waiting for one Hillary joke, and they'd come down 0.99

01:05:17.340 with 17 or 18 more Trump jokes, and I would say, yeah, you already give me 50 Trump jokes.

01:05:26.080 I can't just do Trump jokes.

01:05:29.520 I need a Hillary joke. 0.99

01:05:31.960 And they'd come back, and they'd go, yeah, but these jokes are great.

01:05:35.560 You've got to admit.

01:05:36.360 I go, I admit, they're all great.

01:05:38.140 But I need a Hillary joke.

01:05:40.660 And they pushed it till the day before taping, before...

01:05:44.920 And the guy, the head writer came down, and he gets me off in the side, and he goes, I

01:05:51.060 have a joke for you.

01:05:53.280 Like we're, you know, in Russia.

01:05:55.500 Like, oh, wow.

01:05:56.260 He drops his voice. 0.99

01:05:57.300 He goes, I don't give a fuck about any of this shit, but, you know, I can put it on paper. 1.00

01:06:03.680 Or whatever horse shit he said. 0.99

01:06:05.300 And I said to him, do you want me to write it? 0.99

01:06:08.960 Because that was always the threat to him.

01:06:12.820 I'll write it then.

01:06:14.080 And they were like, oh, no.

01:06:16.080 So they came down with a Hillary joke. 0.99

01:06:19.060 It was really lame, but it was a Hillary joke.

01:06:24.900 Wow.

01:06:25.320 75, but that was the mindset.

01:06:28.080 It was like, we dare not.

01:06:30.920 Yeah.

01:06:31.100 Yeah.

01:06:31.740 Writing comedy.

01:06:32.920 Yeah.

01:06:33.200 You can't write a joke.

01:06:34.180 I mean, I find myself gravitating to comedians that are in whatever way taking on this established

01:06:41.700 orthodoxy.

01:06:43.100 And sometimes not even in ways I approve.

01:06:45.540 I mean, in other words, I'll listen to Louis C.K.

01:06:47.480 And I'm like, I don't really like you.

01:06:49.400 I don't really like your sense of humor.

01:06:51.160 But you know what?

01:06:51.860 I find that you are trying to be a battering ram against some things that are worse.

01:06:56.200 Right.

01:06:56.480 And so I'm glad you're trying to smash the door in.

01:06:59.320 Because it does need to be done.

01:07:01.320 There's a lot of great comics now getting braver and braver.

01:07:05.440 That's good.

01:07:06.260 Because, you know, oppression makes you funnier.

01:07:09.960 So, you know, I see it all the time.

01:07:11.720 And it's great.

01:07:12.340 A lot of great.

01:07:13.960 Oh, I can't remember his name.

01:07:15.720 But he's a big fat comic.

01:07:17.500 He's a black guy.

01:07:18.660 But he talks about Trump where he says the greatest stuff about Trump. 0.72

01:07:24.720 And everyone loves it.

01:07:26.600 And it's not like, I don't think any white person could say that.

01:07:30.620 Really?

01:07:31.180 I have to check this guy out.

01:07:32.420 No, he's so great.

01:07:33.160 I know who you're talking about.

01:07:34.080 Brian.

01:07:36.160 We'll look it up.

01:07:37.100 I can't remember anyone's name.

01:07:38.720 But he goes, he's like talking about how Trump is so OG, you know.

01:07:43.280 He's like, he's the only one at the, well, I won't say any of his jokes.

01:07:46.960 I'll mess him up. 0.99

01:07:48.520 Damn. 0.94

01:07:49.360 I got to insert it in the description. 0.96

01:07:51.620 Yeah, we will.

01:07:52.660 I see his face.

01:07:52.940 But a lot of this stuff isn't, they don't tape.

01:07:54.980 Because they take your cell phones at Rogan's Club.

01:07:57.540 And a lot of, that's how comedians are starting to get brave.

01:08:00.220 Yeah, because they won't let nobody bring you this phone.

01:08:02.120 Oh, that's interesting.

01:08:02.900 So they can't then use it against you.

01:08:04.680 Right.

01:08:04.900 But they are getting real, when you're there, because she goes to the mothership in Texas

01:08:08.960 all the time, they're edgy.

01:08:11.160 Like, I thought comedy was dead.

01:08:12.760 When you're in these clubs, it's back, bigger than ever.

01:08:14.900 It's just, they're not allowed to film or disperse or share.

01:08:17.980 Yeah, that's how it keeps it safe, because they can't.

01:08:20.800 Which is like a speakeasy.

01:08:22.280 It's, or whatever the word is.

01:08:23.580 Yeah, they can't, they can't, you know, build their career on destroying you for a joke.

01:08:29.000 Yeah.

01:08:29.560 And the jokes are hardcore.

01:08:32.100 They're hilarious.

01:08:32.680 Hardcore, and they are making fun of Biden and Kamala and all of them.

01:08:35.960 Mostly what they're doing.

01:08:36.940 You should come down there.

01:08:38.060 Well, you are in Texas.

01:08:39.220 I'm in Texas.

01:08:39.860 Yeah, come with us.

01:08:40.780 I would enjoy it.

01:08:41.420 Let us know when you want to come down, and I'll take you, and we'll go on a real good night.

01:08:47.380 That'd be really fun.

01:08:48.340 It'd be really fun.

01:08:48.940 Absolutely.

01:08:49.480 Well, my wife knows that I, you know, sometimes joke that I like to do myself a combination of,

01:08:57.020 because I do a little bit of humor in my speeches.

01:08:59.920 Yeah.

01:09:00.740 It's integrated into political content and cultural content, but no, that atmosphere appeals to me.

01:09:07.660 It'd be really fun.

01:09:08.120 Yeah, and it's like real multicultural, too.

01:09:11.160 They even have some, I mean, they have some Palestinian comics.

01:09:15.420 I watch them like a hawk.

01:09:17.920 But I have to admit, they're funnier than hell.

01:09:20.200 Of course.

01:09:20.320 You know, it's a great time for comedy, great time for-

01:09:24.880 Podcasts?

01:09:25.860 Thinking, great time for podcasts, great time for film.

01:09:29.600 It is.

01:09:30.220 No, absolutely.

01:09:30.900 Absolutely.

01:09:31.380 And I think that our side, if I may use the term loosely, is waking up to the importance of all these things.

01:09:41.160 Because typically, guys who have money on our side are used to funding, putting money into elections.

01:09:45.200 Right.

01:09:45.720 They're not used to funding comedy.

01:09:48.080 And part of what my point is, find some young people who want to start a comedy channel.

01:09:52.080 Encourage them.

01:09:52.980 Right.

01:09:53.480 Exactly.

01:09:53.600 It's as much a culture war as anything.

01:09:54.860 Let's start creating some great stuff on our side, putting it out into the market.

01:09:59.380 Like, Public Square is sponsoring me to do a Twitter show, you know, once a month.

01:10:03.740 And they're also building a whole company for people who are, kind of, have our point, what

01:10:14.080 do you call it?

01:10:14.680 Our values.

01:10:15.120 Huh?

01:10:15.380 It's a marketplace of companies with our values.

01:10:17.580 Yeah.

01:10:17.980 Yeah.

01:10:18.380 And it's going to rival Amazon.

01:10:21.580 I mean, we can't sell our DVDs at Walmart or Amazon.

01:10:24.420 Now, in the old Walmart, which was run out of Bentonville, Arkansas, there was a conservative

01:10:28.200 management, but not anymore.

01:10:29.760 Right.

01:10:30.020 Walmart has kind of just gone generic corporate.

01:10:32.940 And so, and I'm thinking to myself, well, this is not a banned topic, police state.

01:10:39.360 And there's been not a single fact check that claims that one iota of this film is incorrect,

01:10:45.140 nor can there be.

01:10:46.800 And so, why won't you let us sell our DVDs?

01:10:49.380 But they're like, because we can.

01:10:51.340 Well, you know, we can ban you, and so we're going to.

01:10:53.900 And so, we have to find and create an alternative.

01:10:56.500 It's a great opportunity for some young entrepreneur to put something together, such as a Facebook

01:11:02.600 or something that'll grow over time and have millions of jobs for Americans.

01:11:08.300 Absolutely.

01:11:08.620 These are great opportunity, times of opportunity, if people just switch their negative into a

01:11:14.560 positive and started being Americans again.

01:11:17.200 That's a good point.

01:11:18.220 Yeah.

01:11:18.500 We have to stop just being critics and begin to create stuff.

01:11:22.900 Absolutely.

01:11:23.380 I think, I think in the end, we're going to have to create our own universities.

01:11:27.160 Yes, we are.

01:11:27.700 We're going to have to create our own, really our own America inside of America.

01:11:33.480 Absolutely.

01:11:33.720 It's kind of a startling idea.

01:11:35.180 That's what I've been thinking.

01:11:35.780 The new republic, they're calling it.

01:11:38.540 Texas.

01:11:38.680 It is the new American republic.

01:11:40.980 No, it really is.

01:11:41.880 I mean, we have to have like an island within this country.

01:11:43.660 Yeah, but because, I mean, there are people with a Texas spirit who live in New York.

01:11:47.400 Yeah.

01:11:47.540 Right.

01:11:48.040 So, it's tapping all the people who don't want to be part of the police state.

01:11:52.320 And that's, I think, a clear majority of Americans.

01:11:55.700 They're called sane Americans.

01:11:57.520 Rational Americans. 0.54

01:11:58.020 Americans, that's what I meant.

01:11:58.880 Yeah.

01:11:59.000 People who still have an American spirit, which is the desire for constant improvement.

01:12:06.660 Yeah.

01:12:06.940 That's what America's about.

01:12:08.240 The desire to constantly improve, constantly learn, constantly reach out and make things

01:12:14.600 better for everybody. 0.99

01:12:16.120 Not that shit they say it is. 1.00

01:12:18.340 That's bye-bye. 1.00

01:12:19.440 I agree.

01:12:19.940 We're going to win.

01:12:21.220 I think so, too.

01:12:21.860 I think we are the enemy of the enemy.

01:12:23.900 I think our movement is what they fear most.

01:12:26.960 It's not just individuals and Americans.

01:12:29.240 It's armed Americans.

01:12:30.540 Something you touch brilliantly on in your film is the importance of the Second Amendment

01:12:36.080 and us being armed.

01:12:36.520 Oh, hell yeah.

01:12:36.960 That is the most important thing right now, and I'm so glad that your film touches on

01:12:42.160 that, because if we give up our guns, that's it.

01:12:44.900 Game over.

01:12:45.680 Game over for the work.

01:12:46.560 It's been a hard recognition for me, because I come from a country where people don't have

01:12:49.340 guns.

01:12:49.720 Yeah.

01:12:50.400 And so, initially, I thought, well, gun rights are important, because if someone breaks

01:12:54.280 into your home, it's going to be a while before the cops get there.

01:12:57.160 So, kind of nice to have a gun.

01:12:58.720 But when I read the founders, they're talking about tyranny, and I thought to myself, well,

01:13:05.040 at that point, it was hard for me to see it.

01:13:06.680 Yeah.

01:13:07.160 But now, it's very apparent that the primary reason to have guns is as the ultimate safeguard

01:13:14.640 of your liberties.

01:13:15.600 Yes.

01:13:15.980 And the secondary reason to have guns is for some bad guys who want to come steal your

01:13:19.460 stuff.

01:13:19.800 Yeah.

01:13:19.920 So, I've myself been kind of dragged into, I think, a better understanding of the true

01:13:25.640 logic of the Second Amendment.

01:13:27.200 Yeah.

01:13:27.460 Well, the Constitutionalists say that we have a Second Amendment to protect the First Amendment.

01:13:32.560 Yes.

01:13:32.780 That's a beautiful way to put it.

01:13:35.020 Absolutely.

01:13:35.880 Right?

01:13:36.200 Well said.

01:13:36.480 Yeah.

01:13:37.440 It's all, you know, we just have to piece things back together from the compartmentalization

01:13:44.180 they have forced upon us.

01:13:46.040 And that's what I like most about this film, is that it takes away the blinders and gives

01:13:53.200 us the big picture.

01:13:54.560 What's your next movie going to be?

01:13:56.060 Well, before I say that, I should mention, partly because of this Walmart stuff, that

01:14:02.060 to get DVDs or to watch this film, go to policestatefilm.net.

01:14:07.400 That's the website.

01:14:08.740 There's a bunch of different platforms, including Rumble, the video platform, Salem, Salem Now,

01:14:14.180 Epoch TV, different platforms to buy and stream it.

01:14:17.860 And then you can get DVDs also from Salem or Shopify.

01:14:21.640 But the one-stop shop is policestatefilm.net.

01:14:24.860 Okay.

01:14:25.000 And we've partnered with Salem Media to do a film next year.

01:14:29.580 Topic to be determined.

01:14:31.380 Oh.

01:14:31.640 Because it's so difficult to call, you know, six months ahead or nine months ahead.

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01:15:33.140 Hi, I'm Chris Gethard, and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous,

01:15:37.220 a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone.

01:15:40.020 I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call,

01:15:42.680 I talk to one of them, they stay anonymous, I can't hang up, that's all the rules.

01:15:46.460 I never know what's going to happen.

01:15:48.060 We get serious ones.

01:15:49.500 I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison.

01:15:51.480 I've talked to people who survive mass shootings.

01:15:53.700 Crazy funny ones.

01:15:54.700 I talk to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends.

01:15:58.220 I never know what's going to happen.

01:16:00.020 It's a great show.

01:16:01.300 Subscribe today, Beautiful Anonymous.

01:16:04.100 What is going to be the focus of the election year?

01:16:08.400 It's so tricky.

01:16:09.160 So I'm trying to anticipate what that film should be about and looking for ideas.

01:16:16.720 Cool.

01:16:17.900 Yeah, we'll send them your way because we have tons.

01:16:20.960 I got a ton of ideas.

01:16:22.900 All right.

01:16:24.480 I'm willing to listen.

01:16:25.960 I want to hear them.

01:16:26.800 The Trump Q stuff where he gets back in the White House.

01:16:30.540 He thinks me and 25 million Americans are out of our wits.

01:16:35.680 I don't think you're out of your wits.

01:16:36.860 I think you guys are about 95% there.

01:16:39.300 I think there's just a part where you just have to kind of go, well, we'll see.

01:16:42.140 But you guys are so convinced.

01:16:43.380 I do say, but we'll see.

01:16:44.200 That's all I need.

01:16:45.500 But we'll see.

01:16:46.680 Yeah, I hope you're right.

01:16:47.800 I would like to thank you for being here today.

01:16:50.060 It was wonderful to spend time with you and speak to you.

01:16:52.980 And wonderful to watch your film last night, too, as well as to meet your wife and your stepdaughter.

01:16:59.120 Well, I'm delighted you enjoyed the film.

01:17:00.940 I don't know if enjoy is the right word.

01:17:02.260 It's a creepy movie.

01:17:03.360 But I wanted to make it a truth-telling movie.

01:17:06.400 And I'm glad it's resonated in that way.

01:17:08.720 Absolutely.

01:17:09.440 Absolutely.

01:17:09.920 More than so many I've seen for so many years.

01:17:15.000 Documentaries are fantastic.

01:17:17.140 Yeah.

01:17:17.360 Fantastic art form.

01:17:18.820 I have to agree.

01:17:19.380 Like, we've been arguing for, you know, years, my mother and I, and on the podcast.

01:17:23.460 Like, when people are like, well, what's your source?

01:17:26.360 And you have to tell them, well, you've got to go here.

01:17:27.640 You've got to go there.

01:17:28.100 You've got to go there.

01:17:28.560 And as you're doing it, you're like, no one's ever going to do it.

01:17:30.960 And then also, I can't remember everything. 0.99

01:17:33.140 There's too much bullshit out there. 0.98

01:17:34.280 But I can now cite your film. 1.00

01:17:36.460 Just go watch Police State and call me in an hour and a half.

01:17:40.160 And then we'll talk.

01:17:41.360 And for that, thank you.

01:17:42.720 Because that's what we need.

01:17:43.560 We need to get organized.

01:17:44.100 Well, it's made in a way that if somebody is not political or even on the left, I think the film will unnerve them.

01:17:51.140 I hope so.

01:17:51.420 Because I think they will see that here are ordinary Americans talking about their life.

01:17:56.380 And there are a lot of whistleblowers and informants in the movie.

01:18:00.060 And they're like, this is how the police state is constructed.

01:18:02.360 And we know because we were part of it.

01:18:05.600 So in that sense, it discloses the operations of the police state, I think, in a way that will be eye-opening to people.

01:18:13.000 That's right.

01:18:13.360 Whatever their politics.

01:18:14.060 But why doesn't the left remember Julian Assange?

01:18:19.380 They never do, do they?

01:18:20.900 Who's rotting away in a jail cell because he exposed, again, things that happened under the Obama administration.

01:18:30.540 But they just completely whitewash everything.

01:18:35.780 They disappear it, including a lot of facts about Obama.

01:18:41.120 It's just gone off the Internet.

01:18:43.680 Why don't they wonder, at least, why that is?

01:18:48.300 Why don't they wonder about Julian Assange?

01:18:50.640 Why don't they wonder about why we can't find so many facts about Obama and why he says he had no corruption in his term as president?

01:19:09.620 Why is that gone?

01:19:11.860 Why did they not wonder?

01:19:14.440 They don't wonder.

01:19:15.720 In a full, Orwell is right about this, and we've seen it in the Soviet Union and so on.

01:19:19.800 A full-fledged police state, they will go back and they will rewrite Shakespeare.

01:19:24.620 They will rewrite every book in the library.

01:19:27.800 They will make it so that for new generations, there is no memory.

01:19:33.520 It's a very scary idea.

01:19:35.720 And in some ways, it's a strange idea because you think, well, a police state is trying to build the future.

01:19:40.280 They don't care about the past, but no, they do.

01:19:42.200 They care about the past as much as they do about the present and about the future.

01:19:46.260 They will ultimately try to remake the past.

01:19:49.760 I think this is actually partly why they were, I don't know if you saw this thing,

01:19:52.780 they were like, we've taken the Robert E. Lee monument and melted it down.

01:19:57.140 And I'm like, this is not just about Robert E. Lee.

01:19:59.980 No.

01:20:00.460 This is ultimately about extinguishing historical memory.

01:20:04.640 And that's a very scary thing that you people are doing.

01:20:07.180 That's part of their playbook. 1.00

01:20:07.960 Yeah, and it's part of your sick, demented playbook. 0.99

01:20:11.460 Yeah, because they were for slavery. 0.98

01:20:14.460 They got to get rid of that.

01:20:16.260 That's right.

01:20:16.820 They got to get rid of that.

01:20:17.760 In fact, you're right, all those Confederate generals were all major Democrats.

01:20:21.200 Yeah, they got to get rid of that, of course.

01:20:22.640 That's for sure.

01:20:23.240 They have to get rid of real history of who they are and what they're doing.

01:20:28.660 It's just horrifying.

01:20:30.540 But that's what the Nazis do. 0.96

01:20:32.440 I don't see much difference when I see them being pro-Hamas. 0.96

01:20:36.840 That's going to split their party, though.

01:20:39.060 So I kind of applaud it.

01:20:40.820 Maybe that will wake the Jewish Democrats up and they'll leave. 0.98

01:20:44.760 I hope so.

01:20:45.720 I hope so.

01:20:46.260 So, I mean, making police data has helped me understand a little better even how that stuff in Germany went down.

01:20:53.760 Because you're thinking, how does a society that was, by and large, a Western society, a pretty enlightened society,

01:20:59.980 I mean, in the forefront of science and technology and opera and art,

01:21:04.540 the greatest philosophers in the 19th century were all Germans.

01:21:07.880 I mean, Kant, Schopenhauer, Hegel, Nietzsche.

01:21:09.780 And so how did this immensely civilized society succumb to barbarism?

01:21:17.260 It started with false science on the campus because they introduced Nazi science, 0.91

01:21:22.420 which was craniology, head shapes, and eugenicists,

01:21:26.560 which is exactly what those teachers are teaching, too.

01:21:29.920 When they teach racial theory, that's nothing but eugenicistism.

01:21:36.780 It is.

01:21:39.800 It's nothing but that. 0.99

01:21:41.240 And it has the same bad guy, a Jew. 1.00

01:21:44.040 It all is that. 0.96

01:21:45.140 It's all Nazi stuff and Nazi philosophy. 0.81

01:21:48.360 Well, why wouldn't it be when we brought the Nazis here after World War II in Operation Paperclip 0.98

01:21:55.040 and made them head of our space program, our medical, you know, so many things.

01:22:02.280 And we never look at that either because that's been wiped away.

01:22:06.780 But, you know, all of the scandals in the Obama administration,

01:22:12.880 not one of them has been looked at, including the corruption of the FISA courts.

01:22:17.340 None of that.

01:22:18.000 Spying on a sitting president.

01:22:19.740 None of that has even been looked at.

01:22:21.440 That's wiped away.

01:22:22.700 And I just realized who said that about if you lock Trump up, he's going to win.

01:22:26.780 It was Eric Holder.

01:22:28.520 Oh, interesting.

01:22:29.520 Wow.

01:22:30.520 That's right.

01:22:31.180 I think I saw that clip on social media where he's like, don't put him in prison.

01:22:35.140 Yeah.

01:22:35.500 Yeah.

01:22:35.840 That was Eric Holder.

01:22:37.380 A note of caution from Eric Holder of all people.

01:22:39.980 Wow.

01:22:40.620 Fascinating.

01:22:42.300 So, well, this has been great.

01:22:44.520 Thank you guys for having me.

01:22:45.680 Thank you very much.

01:22:46.580 It's been very enjoyable.

01:22:47.800 And we've covered a lot of ground.

01:22:49.580 We did cover a lot of ground like your movie does, doesn't it?

01:22:53.220 Yes, it does.

01:22:54.100 Once again, I thank you so much for being here.

01:22:57.420 My pleasure.

01:22:58.340 And for your artistic integrity.

01:23:02.520 Thank you very much.

01:23:03.960 You're very welcome.

01:23:05.480 See you, everybody, on the next one.

01:23:07.520 Oh, you see, my patience is growing thin

01:23:14.340 With this synthetic world

01:23:22.400 With liberty

01:23:50.960 With liberty

The Roseanne Barr Podcast - November 09, 2023

Dinesh D'Souza ｜ The Roseanne Barr Podcast #022

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