The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - September 23, 2025


Candace Owens Excels at Six Degrees of Jew + Donald Trump's Grade So Far (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_884)

Hosted by
Gad Saad
Mentioned
Charlie Kirk Marco Rubio JD Vance Gadsad Justin Trudeau Donald Trump Bill Ackman Megan Kelly Aunt Linda Suicidal Empathy Jacques Derrida Tommy Robinson Candace Owens George Floyd Kevin Bacon Mark Carney Starmer Malawi Uncle Aaron and 1 more
Israel, Islam, the Jews, and the West (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_883) Jimmy Kimmel is an Imbecilic Cowardly Pig (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_885)

Episode Stats


Length

21 minutes

Words per minute

173.78

Word count

3,782

Sentence count

275

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

13

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Dr. Gard Saad, a visiting scholar at the Declaration of Independence Centre for the Study of American Freedom at the University of Mississippi, joins me to talk about the tragic death of Charlie Kirk, and to reflect on his life and career.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.540 Okay, it's now time for my main interview of the show,
00:00:03.920 and that is with Professor Gard Saad, one of the greats,
00:00:08.940 and he is a visiting scholar at the Declaration of Independence
00:00:11.500 Centre for the Study of American Freedom,
00:00:13.760 University of Mississippi,
00:00:15.460 and it gives me great pleasure to have him on.
00:00:18.200 Enjoy.
00:00:19.480 Doctor, always wonderful to see you.
00:00:21.380 Thank you so, so much for joining us here.
00:00:23.580 It is wonderful to be with you.
00:00:25.260 Congratulations on your continued success.
00:00:27.040 Very good.
00:00:27.420 Oh, bless.
00:00:29.600 Coming from you, that means the world.
00:00:31.740 Thank you so, so much.
00:00:33.080 I want to talk to you first of all about Charlie Kirk.
00:00:36.780 People are still shocked, devastated.
00:00:40.320 A lot of people are celebrating it.
00:00:42.020 It's been unbelievable, the reaction.
00:00:45.160 What do you make of the way people have not only felt,
00:00:48.900 because that's one thing, but been okay to express?
00:00:53.440 Right.
00:00:53.920 So to start with the people who are grieving,
00:00:56.620 it's unbelievable the number of emails that I've received from total strangers.
00:01:01.380 I received an email today from a person in Malawi, in Africa,
00:01:06.400 who was very, very moved by what happened to Charlie.
00:01:11.600 And so, of course, a lot of people, even if they didn't know him,
00:01:15.160 understood that he was a positive light, he was a positive force,
00:01:18.860 and so they grieve as though they're the brother, the son, the boyfriend that they wish that they had.
00:01:25.980 And so, and of course, given that he was a personal friend, it was, I mean, I couldn't tell you,
00:01:31.280 I was floating on a dark cloud of rage.
00:01:35.660 I continue to be.
00:01:36.880 Whenever I see his image now, I mean, we recently had a chat together.
00:01:40.800 It's just, it's difficult to process.
00:01:43.760 Of course, on the other hand, the people who are celebrating him, celebrating his death,
00:01:49.720 it really makes you wonder what, you know, who raised these people?
00:01:52.980 Listen, I have a lot of people who send me a lot of hateful stuff who are really,
00:01:57.800 truly degenerate people, but I just don't have the reflex to ever think about ill will happening to them
00:02:04.420 or celebrating and dancing on their grade.
00:02:06.900 So I guess we must be made up of different material.
00:02:10.860 I often look at those people and I look at who they cheer for,
00:02:14.640 and I take their hate as a badge of honour in many, many circumstances,
00:02:18.540 because they're not the kind of people I would want to be fans.
00:02:22.180 Doctor, there's a lot of talk about who fills that void left by Charlie,
00:02:27.620 and what he did was so incredibly unique in that he was willing to be vulnerable.
00:02:32.280 He was willing to be engaged publicly and debated and challenged.
00:02:36.600 Not a lot of people are.
00:02:38.260 You're one of those people who are.
00:02:39.780 Who do you think can slide into that spot, if anyone?
00:02:45.060 He's really irreplaceable in the sense that he had a combination of skills.
00:02:50.580 Many people have one, two, three of those skills, but not all of them.
00:02:54.620 So he was very approachable.
00:02:56.300 He was very humble.
00:02:57.720 He was willing, as you said, to put himself out there.
00:03:00.200 He was willing to be punchy, but always with a very warm smile,
00:03:05.300 something that is difficult to pull off, because oftentimes when you're punchy,
00:03:08.840 you come across as moralising or caustic, and you didn't get that with Charlie.
00:03:13.800 He was able to connect with the TikTok generation.
00:03:17.280 I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating on your show.
00:03:20.600 When my daughter found out, she's 16 years old,
00:03:23.160 when she found out that I was going to speak to him just earlier this summer,
00:03:27.680 she said, Daddy, do you think that you could introduce me to him?
00:03:31.880 Now, I speak to a lot of very famous and very illustrious people.
00:03:36.860 She never asked me to meet them, but she did ask when it was Charlie Kirk, right?
00:03:41.260 So if I were to speak to 16-year-olds, they might view me as the guy with the grey hair
00:03:46.360 who's a professor.
00:03:47.280 Maybe they might think that they can't connect with me.
00:03:49.540 But Charlie was only a bit older than them, and so he really had that unique touch.
00:03:54.700 I'm sure there is somebody out there, but I'm not sure it's going to be easy to replace him.
00:03:59.620 What do you make of Candace Owens? 0.96
00:04:02.460 And I hate giving her airtime, but it's dominating so much on X, particularly at the moment.
00:04:08.640 Her theory and her attempts to convince people that somehow Israel or the Jews were involved in this.
00:04:15.300 I mean, what is your reaction?
00:04:17.420 I'm not going to put words in your mouth.
00:04:18.780 What do you feel when you see that?
00:04:21.160 Well, the first thing is, you know, I spoke to Candace on my show many years ago
00:04:26.220 when she was a much lesser figure, and frankly, I regret that.
00:04:31.820 I almost feel existentially soiled in the fact that I shared, even though it was remotely,
00:04:37.300 that I shared the platform with her, even if it were only for an hour,
00:04:41.420 because what she is exhibiting is exactly what happens when someone is parasitized by what I call,
00:04:48.540 this is a game that I coined, called Six Degrees of Jew.
00:04:51.980 It's a play on six degrees of separation or six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
00:04:56.900 And so the way the game works, Erin, is that I give you a calamity,
00:05:02.280 and you have to point it back to the Jews in six or fewer causal steps.
00:05:09.740 And so, for example, if I were to say an Amazonian frog just died, how can we blame the Jews?
00:05:16.860 Go.
00:05:17.460 And I often will post this facetiously on X, and people do come up,
00:05:22.020 even though they're just playing along,
00:05:23.620 they will very quickly come up with six or fewer steps to blame the Jews. 0.79
00:05:27.300 Well, it seems that much of Candace's brain has been taken up by six degrees of Jew. 1.00
00:05:32.380 It's insanity, isn't it? 0.90
00:05:34.940 And even today, you know, we've just seen the text messages released of the alleged assassin
00:05:40.000 had sent to his transgender partner, essentially outlining what occurred,
00:05:45.040 what his reasoning was that he did it.
00:05:47.420 Yet that's still not enough.
00:05:48.600 The other thing that I find really interesting, and I don't know if you know Bill Ackman,
00:05:51.620 I know Bill Ackman.
00:05:52.700 I consider him a friend.
00:05:54.480 And I look at even what she is accusing him of.
00:05:59.260 Charlie, and he has denied it, and there's no doubt in my mind that he is telling the truth.
00:06:04.040 But Charlie wanted robust debate.
00:06:06.180 People would go to Charlie, this is what he did for a living, and argue their case.
00:06:11.940 If they believed vehemently in Israel or in particular elements of the war in Gaza
00:06:17.140 or in a decision made by the government, that's what Charlie did.
00:06:21.620 Like, the thought of people going to him and strongly putting their position to him
00:06:26.400 should not surprise anyone, I wouldn't have thought, nor would it have offended him.
00:06:32.000 Indeed.
00:06:32.820 Look, this whole reflex comes in part from the idea that there are certain things that you say
00:06:39.640 or positions that you hold that are so offensive that it amounts to a form of violence, right?
00:06:47.000 That's what the left has promulgated for a while now.
00:06:50.320 Now, if I were to link it back, if I can be professorial for a second,
00:06:53.940 it really comes, if we can trace it back, to a specific idea pathogen known as deconstructionism.
00:07:00.780 Deconstructionism is a movement that was, I mean, the real pioneer of it was a French philosopher
00:07:05.800 by the name of Jacques Derrida, where he basically argued that language creates reality.
00:07:12.280 And so if you put that, there is no reality that exists outside of the things that you name that thing, right?
00:07:18.720 And so once you actually internalize that framework, then you could potentially argue that
00:07:24.700 saying something that I disagree with becomes a form of violence against me.
00:07:29.840 Of course that's silly.
00:07:30.980 Of course that we should be able to, in a civil society, to have debates.
00:07:34.720 And I constantly try to remind people about the difference between deontological and consequentialist ethics.
00:07:40.440 If I could take a moment to explain it.
00:07:41.760 Can you explain that?
00:07:42.820 I'd love you to, please.
00:07:44.220 Thank you.
00:07:45.060 So deontological ethics are absolute statements.
00:07:48.620 So for example, if I say it is never okay to lie, that would be a deontological statement.
00:07:53.680 If I say it is okay to lie to spare someone's feelings, then that would be a consequentialist statement.
00:07:59.420 Now, for many things in life, it makes perfect sense for us to be consequentialists.
00:08:03.840 So I always joke, although I'm being serious, if you want to have a happy marriage and you hear the following question,
00:08:09.980 do I look fat and don't do it, then please quickly put on your consequentialist hat.
00:08:16.660 And if you have to lie, then so be it, because you're doing it for an important cause,
00:08:21.240 which is to spare the feelings of somebody that you love.
00:08:23.960 So that's okay.
00:08:24.880 That's a white lie.
00:08:25.740 But when it comes to foundational principles, like freedom of speech, like freedom of inquiry,
00:08:31.240 like presumption of innocence, those by definition cannot be consequentialists.
00:08:36.220 So when you say, yes, I believe in freedom of speech, and then you put the qualifier,
00:08:41.360 but you're sinking into consequentialism, you shouldn't.
00:08:44.520 Yeah.
00:08:45.240 That is so fascinating.
00:08:47.120 Thank you so much for explaining that.
00:08:48.560 I want to get your take on this two sides argument that particularly the Democrats and the left are pushing at the moment about this violence on both sides.
00:08:57.140 It looks very one sided to me.
00:08:59.120 Do you think that this is an issue that both sides contend with equally?
00:09:04.400 I mean, I don't have the empirical data, but certainly from having ears and eyes and a brain,
00:09:08.940 I would think that it is much more likely to be on the left, because they're the ones who have internalized that consequentialist ethos, right?
00:09:16.300 They're the ones who burned down entire, you know, neighborhoods after his holiness, St. George Floyd was killed. 0.94
00:09:27.280 He wasn't a particularly lovely guy.
00:09:29.480 He was a hardened felon. 0.94
00:09:31.240 But him getting killed became completely justifiable for us to burn down the world.
00:09:37.040 On the other hand, how many protests, violent protests have we seen when a genuinely beautiful gem of a human being got blown away?
00:09:45.600 Charlie Kirk.
00:09:46.400 Nobody did it.
00:09:47.140 So I don't believe that it is equally likely on both sides.
00:09:50.380 Now, by the way, the fact that you could identify a singular exemplar on the other side doesn't make it equally likely.
00:09:58.140 And again, this is actually that I talk about in Suicidal Empathy, my forthcoming book.
00:10:02.420 Men are taller and heavier than women, even though your Aunt Linda is taller than your Uncle Roscoe. 0.99
00:10:12.980 When you tell me that, Professor, it's not true because Aunt Linda, you're simply advertising that you're a moron who doesn't understand statistical distribution. 0.84
00:10:22.720 Nearly every single female player in the WNBA is taller than most men, but the statement holds absolutely true that men are taller than women. 0.99
00:10:33.780 So this is exactly what they're doing when they are equivocating.
00:10:37.020 You find a singular exemplar where it is somebody on the right who killed, and then you say, you see, it's equal on both sides.
00:10:43.380 We both do it.
00:10:43.980 And it's not true.
00:10:46.120 Absolutely.
00:10:46.680 So brilliantly put.
00:10:47.900 Talk to me about moving forward in this space. 0.92
00:10:52.960 Is there a chance of unity when you have people who are so deluded, so evil, so batshit crazy?
00:11:01.060 How does unity occur, particularly in a country like the United States, post what's occurred?
00:11:05.720 Well, look, I wouldn't be able to get up in the morning and rub my hands with optimism if I thought that there was no chance to reach people.
00:11:16.860 Now, in any distribution, there is a certain number of people that you're not going to be able to reach, right?
00:11:22.820 So if I want to dialogue with you and you either threaten me to death or you go, la, la, la, I don't want to hear it,
00:11:28.360 then there is absolutely no opportunity for us to have a meaningful dialogue.
00:11:31.400 But if you grant me the courtesy to at least engage you and at least present you the evidence, I'm of the opinion that I could flip you.
00:11:40.300 And so I'll give you a very quick example.
00:11:43.040 About 14 years ago, almost 15 years ago now, and I mentioned this actually in the parasitic mind,
00:11:48.300 a Jewish friend of mine wrote to me and said, I'm currently friends with a doctoral student who's doing Islamic studies,
00:11:57.040 and she's telling me that there's absolutely zero violence in Islam.
00:12:01.860 Islam loves the Jews. 1.00
00:12:03.400 Well, you're a big expert on this, Professor Saad.
00:12:06.220 Can you tell us what you think?
00:12:07.320 Can you tell me what you think?
00:12:08.400 And so I sent her a link with just a montage of imams across the world and what they say about the Jews.
00:12:15.640 I didn't editorialize.
00:12:17.160 She writes back to me and says, well, you sharing this clip proves to me that you are no different in your extremism.
00:12:24.220 So my sharing that meant that I was as extremist.
00:12:27.960 But I'm going to come to a point that's relevant to your question.
00:12:30.540 It took her 15 years and she finally emailed me and said, hi, God, it's been a long time since we've last chatted.
00:12:39.020 I just want to tell you that I feel so ashamed of how I had reacted to you back then.
00:12:45.760 And I now completely see, you know, how you were exactly correct. 0.99
00:12:50.320 So it took a while for reality to bite her in the ass, but eventually it did. 0.99
00:12:56.460 That is real. 0.99
00:12:57.960 That's hanging in there for someone to finally come around, isn't it?
00:13:01.300 That is patience.
00:13:02.720 Who do you think at the moment, who poses the greatest threat to the West and to all the things that we value?
00:13:10.960 And that's peace, democracy, freedom.
00:13:12.900 Is it Qatar and the Islamic extremists and terrorist proxies? 0.98
00:13:18.680 Is it these nutcase influencers who are suddenly almost giving more validity and legitimacy to them by doing their dirty work? 0.79
00:13:26.380 Who at the moment poses the greatest threat to all the things that we hold dear?
00:13:30.880 Right.
00:13:31.060 So the equation for the catastrophe that the West is heading towards, and it's not because I'm trying to plug my work, it's the parasitic mind plus suicidal empathy.
00:13:42.840 So, yes, Islam has many tenets that are incongruent with Western values, but it only becomes a problem when we are parasitized by cultural relativism that says, hey, who are we to judge the norms of another culture?
00:13:58.580 Number one. And then we say, and so here's a way that we could demonstrate that we're not bigoted.
00:14:04.160 You know, what's a great idea is to let in millions of people who don't share any of our values, because then we could look at ourself in the mirror and really fear proud in our moral piety.
00:14:15.140 Right. And so the combination of having a parasitized mind and a parasitized emotional system results in the hijacking of your survival instinct.
00:14:27.420 And then it results in the death of the West. You're seeing it in your country of Australia.
00:14:32.440 You're seeing it in Sweden and in Britain and in France.
00:14:35.360 So, yes, there might be ideologies outside of us that are very dangerous.
00:14:40.540 But what makes it dangerous is we say, hey, bring it in and let's show you that we can be killed honorably while not being racist. 0.83
00:14:49.220 Insanity. Tommy Robinson, I know, is a friend of yours as well.
00:14:54.780 And what he did over the past weekend in terms of a show of force, people fighting back, does that fill you with hope?
00:15:03.940 Does it does it give you confidence that that people are cottoning on to their own suicidal empathy and the fact that it will destroy them and their children?
00:15:13.580 It does. And actually, one of the things that I think I will learn to deeply regret is the fact that I wasn't able to make it to speak at that event.
00:15:22.940 I nearly got there, too. I booked accommodation. I sent him the screenshot. I was so close and then I couldn't.
00:15:29.460 Exactly. Well, then we could have finally met in person, too. But next time.
00:15:32.280 Look, it gives some optimism. Of course it does. But that has to that reflex of moral indignation has to happen in every nook and cranny of every interaction.
00:15:47.380 Right. So when I'm sitting with someone at the pub and they say something that I think is challengeable, well, I won't keep my mouth shut because I want to be nice, nice and be friendly.
00:15:58.740 I will engage them politely. So, yes, it's great to dedicate September 13th as the day of the Brits are coming back.
00:16:06.760 But that's insufficient. Every single interaction where these dreadful parasitic ideas are spreading is where we need to have an inoculation centre.
00:16:17.740 What grade would you give Donald Trump thus far for his presidency, his second term?
00:16:23.220 And of course, I am the professor of the people, so it is incumbent on me to give the grade.
00:16:28.740 I will give him an A. Maybe not quite A+, but, you know, somewhere between A and A+.
00:16:35.260 And why?
00:16:38.260 Because on all the things that matter, he's done very well, right?
00:16:41.920 Which is he's trying to crack down on crime. People have a right to walk around not feeling that they're going to be mugged and raped and shot.
00:16:50.900 So, he is trying his best. He can't, you know, wave the magic wand and all crime is going to go, but he certainly is demonstrating the desire to do so.
00:16:59.620 He has shut down the border. That's a good thing. There is no country if there is no integrity of the border.
00:17:06.280 You know, he is engaging all sorts of partners in foreign diplomacy.
00:17:12.960 So, on all fronts, I think he's doing a great job.
00:17:16.800 And I even feel, if I may say, Aaron, I feel as though he's grown into his role in the second term.
00:17:24.060 And I think I want to offer a completely speculative theory, but I think it stands on good merit.
00:17:33.060 The first term, he was pissed off. People are coming after me. Nobody is giving me credit and so on.
00:17:40.420 Well, now he's ascended to the mountain. Now he has won all that he has to win.
00:17:44.840 Now he has lifted the World Cup.
00:17:47.320 And so, that stress is off his shoulder.
00:17:51.060 And so, I feel that even on the metric, which he scored poorly in the first term, which is he wasn't presidential enough,
00:17:58.080 I actually think he's been very presidential this time around.
00:18:01.040 So, I think I might change it from A to A+.
00:18:03.180 Well, I love that, ever-evolving.
00:18:07.080 What do you think of his successor?
00:18:09.520 Is it J.D. Vance? Is it Marco Rubio?
00:18:12.780 I mean, there's obviously time for both of them to grow and show what they can do.
00:18:16.280 But who do you feel now would be the best candidate for the Republicans to take over from him?
00:18:23.340 I feel J.D. Vance. I think Rubio is also great.
00:18:26.540 I mean, when you hear him speak, he's spot on.
00:18:29.040 I think he's doing a great job as Secretary of State.
00:18:31.440 So, I think, you know, sort of the MAGA agenda is safe with both of them.
00:18:35.580 But I think there's that extra little something that J.D. has.
00:18:39.940 He's a bit punchy, kind of, not unlike how we were talking about Charlie Kirk earlier, right?
00:18:47.120 He could be punchy.
00:18:48.320 He's a honey badger.
00:18:49.540 But he's pleasant to look at.
00:18:51.400 He's got a nice smile.
00:18:52.560 He's good-looking.
00:18:53.420 Not to imply that Rubio's not.
00:18:55.320 But he's got the right mixture of stuff that, frankly, he looks presidential.
00:19:01.080 Boy, he's very young.
00:19:02.240 So, if I had to put my chips, please don't be upset at me, Secretary Rubio.
00:19:07.220 I would say slightly more edge towards J.D. Vance.
00:19:11.440 And just finally on world leaders who are not so impressive.
00:19:15.360 In fact, the complete opposite.
00:19:17.000 We see Donald Trump and Melania are in the UK at the moment.
00:19:19.780 You've got Starmer, Carney in Canada, Macron.
00:19:23.940 Could you pick out potentially the weakest world leader that you think is currently in a position of power?
00:19:30.000 Well, the weak, I know this is not answering your exact question, but the weakest would have been our former lady Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau.
00:19:40.420 They say that too.
00:19:41.940 Right.
00:19:42.380 As a matter of fact, if you want to see an incredible clip, an exchange between Megyn Kelly and I, when she had come on my show last and we were chatting, I don't have the exact words, but she said something like, you know, I can't stand Justin Trudeau.
00:19:57.580 This is not a guy who can get on top of you and get the job done in the bedroom.
00:20:04.420 The only thing I could say is, I love you, Megyn Kelly.
00:20:09.200 I hope to never find that out.
00:20:12.100 Ever.
00:20:13.540 From your lips to God's ear.
00:20:14.720 But I would probably say the British Prime Minister is probably top, but although, you know, Mark Carney does not exactly exude the model of masculinity, but, you know, at least he's a globalist kind of banker type, a bit sleazy.
00:20:33.380 You know, he knows how to speak at the Davos encounter, you know what I mean?
00:20:37.700 But I would say probably Stormer is the king of the Kastrati. 0.89
00:20:44.060 Doctor, before I let you go, if you can just let us know, when is suicidal empathy coming?
00:20:48.460 How can people see you, watch you, hear you, absorb you in every way possible?
00:20:53.860 That is appropriate.
00:20:55.940 Right.
00:20:56.420 Well, so on X, you can follow me at Gadsad.
00:21:01.500 I have a show called The Sad Truth, S-A-A-D, both on YouTube and on a podcast.
00:21:08.380 Suicidal empathy.
00:21:09.780 I was actually only supposed to submit the original manuscript by March 2026.
00:21:16.620 But I've now sped up the timeline so that I'm about six months ahead of schedule.
00:21:21.820 So if all goes well, I'd like to think that maybe by late spring, it will be in your hand on some beach where you're going, God, I love Gadsad.
00:21:33.180 I don't need to be on a beach or have your book to think, God, I love Gadsad, but I'll love you more in that position.
00:21:39.180 Legend, thank you for everything that you do, for the fight that you take up every single day.
00:21:43.380 You're amazing.
00:21:44.440 Thank you.
00:21:44.880 You too.
00:21:45.140 Cheers.
00:21:45.440 Take care.