The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - January 09, 2025


Discussing Islam with Piers Morgan (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_782)

Topics
woke ideology
Hosted by
Gad Saad
Mentioned
Tommy Robinson Donald Trump Christopher Hitchens Matthew Mehdi Hassan Elon Musk Mark Zuckerberg Douglas Murray Jess Phillips John Pilger Torah Will
Trudeau Is The Biggest Degenerate, Malignant Narcissist to Ever Lead Canada (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_780) Parasitic Ideas & Suicidal Empathy Are Killing the West - Northwood University (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_783)

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

163.38

Word count

2,967

Sentence count

202

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

44

sentences flagged

Hate speech

21

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Gad Saad, a Global Ambassador at Northwoodwooden university, joins me to discuss Islamophobia and why it doesn't really exist. We discuss the dictionary definition of Islamophobia, and why most Muslims are not bigots.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Even more fast than I get your response to Gad Saad,
00:00:02.000 who joins me now.
00:00:02.600 He's a visiting professor, global ambassador
00:00:04.300 at Northwood University.
00:00:05.280 Gad, great to have you back on Uncensored.
00:00:07.480 Thank you.
00:00:08.100 And you and I have been having a little very friendly
00:00:10.500 ding-dong on X the last few days.
00:00:13.480 I want to start just by what Mehdi Hassan told me
00:00:16.200 about Islamophobia, because I don't want to put words
00:00:19.460 in your mouth, but I think you're kind of of the view
00:00:21.180 it doesn't really exist and that you shouldn't be silenced
00:00:24.960 from criticising Islam by people shouting
00:00:27.160 you're Islamophobic. 0.75
00:00:28.520 Now, Mehdi Hassan, and I subscribe to this as well,
00:00:33.400 I think if you launch the kind of ferocious,
00:00:37.100 relentless attacks that someone like Tommy Robinson
00:00:39.020 has done on Islam and Muslims in the way that he's done
00:00:42.960 so many times, it's eventually pretty painfully obvious
00:00:46.660 to people that you're coming at this from a bigoted position.
00:00:50.120 And therefore, by the dictionary definition of Islamophobia,
00:00:54.600 if it comes from a place of hate, that actually is
00:00:57.780 Islamophobia, isn't it?
00:01:01.280 Thank you so much for having me back, Pierce.
00:01:04.020 The devil is in the details, right? 0.98
00:01:06.100 So if I were to say that Jews are inherently diseased, 1.00
00:01:12.580 they are degenerates, they are evil, they're parasites, 1.00
00:01:15.580 that would be anti-Semitic. 1.00
00:01:17.200 If I say there are teachings in the Torah that are abhorrent,
00:01:22.460 given today's moral codes, that wouldn't be anti-Semitic.
00:01:26.200 So if you were to make dispositional statements about individual Muslims,
00:01:32.380 that would be Muslim bigotry. 0.70
00:01:34.620 But if you say anything you want about the codified content of Islam, 0.75
00:01:40.840 then by definition, that cannot be Islamophobic.
00:01:44.440 OK, so let me play you a little mash-up of examples, I would say,
00:01:48.600 where Tommy Robinson has displayed Islamophobia
00:01:51.600 by the criteria in the dictionary.
00:01:53.580 Let's take a look.
00:01:54.580 We will unify every community against the hostility
00:01:57.880 and barbarianism of Islam.
00:02:00.040 I'm not racist. 0.84
00:02:00.880 I despise racism.
00:02:02.380 Islam is not a race. 1.00
00:02:03.840 Islam is a fascist, violent ideology which masquerades as a religion. 1.00
00:02:07.560 Every single Muslim watching this video on YouTube. 1.00
00:02:11.920 On 7-7, you got away with killing and maiming British citizens. 0.98
00:02:18.160 We embrace migrants that come to this country and love it. 0.99
00:02:21.020 The problem is Islamic migrants come to this country and declare war. 1.00
00:02:24.280 Now, when you hear all that, and in particular, it felt to me 0.99
00:02:28.020 that what he said about 7-7, which was a bunch of extremist terrorists 0.94
00:02:32.460 who happened to be Muslim committing terrorism, 0.98
00:02:35.220 when you basically, at a crowd with a loud hailer in your mouth, 0.99
00:02:40.420 embrace every single Muslim in the country and say you're all to blame 1.00
00:02:43.620 for killing and maiming British, that is Islamophobic, isn't it? 1.00
00:02:46.660 I mean, it has to be. 0.99
00:02:48.320 Otherwise, what is?
00:02:48.980 Yes, let me address this using two examples.
00:02:53.700 The number one predictor of child abuse is if there is a step-parent in the house.
00:03:00.820 It is 100 times greater predictor than all other predictors.
00:03:07.100 And yet, most step-parents are perfectly lovely and kind and don't commit abuse.
00:03:13.240 So understanding statistical reasoning and causal inferencing is important.
00:03:17.680 So let me give a second example.
00:03:20.420 Since 9-11 alone, there have been 46,000-plus terror attacks committed
00:03:27.220 in roughly 70 countries by Islamic terrorists.
00:03:32.180 That is an absolute fact, notwithstanding the fact that out of 2 billion Muslims,
00:03:39.920 most did not commit terrorist acts.
00:03:42.200 So we can point to 7-7 and say that that was driven by Islamic ideology,
00:03:49.500 while also speaking from the other side of our mouths,
00:03:53.600 that most Muslims that we'll ever meet are peaceful.
00:03:56.700 Both of those two statements are true.
00:03:59.120 What the peaceful Muslims would say is that actually it's the twisting 1.00
00:04:04.320 of the Islam ideology by extremists that is the problem.
00:04:09.840 It's not a genuine interpretation of Islam, because the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful.
00:04:16.500 So they say that's not true.
00:04:18.200 Well, is it not true?
00:04:20.080 No, it isn't. 0.68
00:04:20.860 If that wasn't true, then wouldn't de facto most Muslims commit acts of terrorism. 0.97
00:04:26.420 Most Jews eat prosciutto and also eat shrimps, but they're not practicing a more gentle form of kosher law. 0.95
00:04:36.860 They simply ignore the fact that kosher laws dictate that you don't eat shrimps and that you don't eat prosciutto, right?
00:04:45.320 I eat prosciutto.
00:04:46.960 I'm Jewish.
00:04:48.160 I'm not practicing a more peaceful version of Judaism. 0.97
00:04:52.620 I just ignore that which I don't wish to apply.
00:04:56.660 Most Muslims don't commit those acts because they are kind and decent people
00:05:01.660 who choose to ignore whichever they don't wish to follow in their texts.
00:05:06.280 But does Islam contain endless quotes, endless edicts that are profoundly problematic to the kuffar? 0.88
00:05:16.260 The answer is a resounding yes.
00:05:18.320 Does the Bible do that?
00:05:19.560 Yeah, of course, the Bible does does that.
00:05:23.460 Right.
00:05:23.680 But so the same thing, you're saying you would have the same view of Christianity, for example, would you?
00:05:29.460 Well, if Christians were going around right now quoting passages from the New Testament 0.98
00:05:35.800 and committing 46,000 plus terror attacks in nearly 70 countries since 9-11 alone, then I would say we need to worry about those texts.
00:05:45.960 If there were Talmudic extremists doing that, then we would worry about that.
00:05:52.560 Look, Deuteronomy has a lot of nasty things. 1.00
00:05:55.580 Find the Alamakites and kill them. 1.00
00:05:57.640 But I don't know many guys called Mordechai Rubenstein looking for Malakites to kill them. 0.99
00:06:05.440 So, you know, common sense matters, right? 0.62
00:06:08.600 Most Muslims are lovely.
00:06:10.640 I know more Muslims than most people will ever meet in their lives.
00:06:14.460 None of them have ever been terrorists. 0.65
00:06:16.240 This doesn't take away from the fact that there is a astounding problem with Islamic terrorism. 0.99
00:06:23.640 Both those statements are true.
00:06:25.420 It is.
00:06:25.880 But I would say that to give you two parallels, two very different things.
00:06:29.860 One, as somebody put to me on X today, you know, during the years when the IRA were committing appalling acts of terrorism,
00:06:36.900 it would be like saying, well, then all, you know, according to Tommy Robinson, his logic would say all Irish people are to blame for the maiming and killing, right?
00:06:46.000 Which clearly would have been an outrageous thing to say.
00:06:48.520 Secondly, and I raised this with someone on the show who was incensed that I would even draw this parallel, but I said, why not?
00:06:55.480 If you look at the number of mass shootings in America in the last 30 years, 0.96
00:06:59.020 they're almost exclusively perpetrated by deranged young white men. 0.90
00:07:03.180 So does that mean that we should, by the same logic, say, well, there's all these terrible mass shootings going on. 0.96
00:07:09.020 They're all being committed by the same type of profile of person.
00:07:12.580 Therefore, all young white men in America have to be treated with deep suspicion, which is what Tommy Robinson would.
00:07:18.980 That's where his logic takes you.
00:07:20.780 That's why I have a problem with the Tommy Robinsons of this world.
00:07:23.920 It's not his message and banging the drum about the rape gang scandal.
00:07:28.300 He's been absolutely right about that.
00:07:29.840 It's just, he's such a flawed messenger for all sorts of other reasons.
00:07:33.800 And the reason that's problematic is because he gets used by people who are trying to avoid accountability
00:07:40.320 because they say, well, look at this guy, the one who's shouting loudest about us.
00:07:44.520 Look at him. 0.99
00:07:45.180 He's a convicted football thug. 0.99
00:07:47.180 He beats up policemen and gets convicted for it. 1.00
00:07:49.640 He's a mortgage fraudster. 0.93
00:07:50.860 He's a passport faker. 0.66
00:07:52.220 He's committed contempt to court three times.
00:07:54.740 He's nearly wrecked trials involving the rape gang scandals. 0.97
00:07:58.100 He's made a Syrian refugee boy's life, utter hell with his lies. 1.00
00:08:02.480 That's why he's now in prison and so on.
00:08:04.800 In other words, by demonizing the messenger, those who should be held to account are able
00:08:09.500 to hide behind Tommy Robinson being the flag bearer for all this.
00:08:14.400 I think that is a problem.
00:08:16.780 Look, Tommy Robinson has some issues in his past.
00:08:20.560 I don't know all of them, although I've had a chance to have long conversations with him.
00:08:24.860 He's even come to visit me in Montreal.
00:08:26.860 He never, in my presence, said anything that struck me as bigoted or racist.
00:08:31.500 So I'm not here to defend Tommy Robinson.
00:08:34.300 Christopher Hitchens, whom I'm sure you know well, he's a compatriot British.
00:08:39.260 Excuse me?
00:08:39.980 I employed him when I was editor of the Daily Mirror.
00:08:42.540 And you know when I employed him?
00:08:43.740 I know what you're about to say to me about what he said about Islamophobia.
00:08:46.320 Before you say it, and you're right to say it, I would point out I hired him during the
00:08:51.260 Iraq war because he supported that war and the paper opposed it before, during and after.
00:08:58.740 And I thought it was important to have a voice in the paper up against John Pilger, actually,
00:09:03.580 quite often, who was obviously viscerally against the war.
00:09:06.740 But I let Hitchens run riot, even though I thought he was completely wrong.
00:09:11.060 And even though I look back on it now and I'm convinced he was completely wrong.
00:09:14.160 So Hitchens wasn't always right before you say to me what he said about Islamophobia,
00:09:19.360 which you're about to do.
00:09:21.500 Well, I mean, yes, I can make the point about what he said about Islamophobia.
00:09:24.720 But the point that I was going to make is that Christopher Hitchens is,
00:09:28.480 and I think you'll probably agree with this, one of the most eloquent speakers that we would
00:09:32.180 have ever seen, right?
00:09:33.200 He has a beautiful British accent.
00:09:35.540 He speaks with a beautiful vocabulary, as does Douglas Murray.
00:09:40.060 So they may say things that are, in terms of their content, absolutely indistinguishable
00:09:45.900 from anything that Tommy Robinson says.
00:09:48.280 But Tommy Robinson's style, his accent, is one that serves as an aesthetic injury to the
00:09:55.700 people who carry the progressive lisp.
00:09:58.200 And therefore, people react to Tommy Robinson because of his style of delivery.
00:10:03.240 Elon Musk, who, as you know, is a good friend of mine, has a direct way of speaking that
00:10:10.140 is not as eloquent as Christopher Hitchens.
00:10:13.760 That doesn't in any way imply that what he is saying is not veridical.
00:10:18.360 So we have to differentiate between the substance and the content.
00:10:22.440 I don't disagree.
00:10:23.480 I've always said that, actually, about Donald Trump.
00:10:25.380 Same thing, that the rhetoric often bears little relation to what he actually does.
00:10:30.340 I also think it's important to focus on what people actually do.
00:10:32.720 My problem with Elon, who I think is a complete genius, my problem over this week has been
00:10:38.080 the way he's targeted Jess Phillips, a female MP, in my view, wrongly and inaccurately, but
00:10:43.780 that's neither here nor there.
00:10:45.240 By calling her a genocidal rape apologist, he's put a massive target on her head where
00:10:50.360 people have now been arrested for threatening her life.
00:10:53.300 And we've had two members of Parliament, including a young woman, who've been murdered in the last
00:10:57.380 10 years in this country.
00:10:58.800 I just think that kind of language crosses a line.
00:11:02.380 I mean, would you agree?
00:11:04.460 Look, I hear you.
00:11:05.880 I get that.
00:11:06.740 I've been accused of being the orchestrator of the killing of Gazan children.
00:11:12.080 I sit as a professor who's 60 years old in Montreal doing evolutionary psychology research.
00:11:17.660 I have nothing to do with the killing of anyone in Gaza, yet I am the baby genocidal killer. 0.99
00:11:23.320 So, of course, I empathize with the point that you're making.
00:11:26.380 And that's why I said that sometimes Elon might be very blunt in the way he says what
00:11:31.260 he says, but the content of what he's saying, the ire that he has, really is coming from
00:11:37.300 a good place, right?
00:11:38.800 Britain does suffer from an orgiastic form of suicidal empathy, the topic of my forthcoming 0.88
00:11:45.120 book, because they're much more desirous of protecting the sensibilities of their Muslim 1.00
00:11:52.460 population than to worry about the integrity of the bodily and the integrity of children.
00:11:58.420 That's not a good calculus to have.
00:12:00.520 I think that's what triggered the ire of Elon.
00:12:03.360 The fact that he went after this person is regrettable.
00:12:06.020 I share your concern there.
00:12:08.160 But again, I think the fact that you and I and others are having these important conversations,
00:12:13.160 only good things can come from that.
00:12:14.740 No, I completely agree.
00:12:15.680 And actually, having Mehdi first, you now having Matthew here, who has his views about
00:12:20.340 it.
00:12:20.460 I mean, it's interesting what you just said.
00:12:21.680 It's not a million miles away from what Matthew said about the woke ideology getting in grip
00:12:26.240 of our country in a way that so many people in officialdom felt incapable or too terrified
00:12:33.040 to do the right thing because they were fearful of retribution and being accused of, you know,
00:12:39.300 being anti-Muslim or whatever it may be.
00:12:41.120 And I completely get that.
00:12:42.480 That's why, you know, I was interested in what you were saying to me.
00:12:45.940 And you said it on the Will Cain show.
00:12:47.380 I love Will.
00:12:48.020 I listened to that interview.
00:12:50.140 Just slightly misinterpreted me.
00:12:51.820 I'm not saying that any criticism of Muslims or Islam is wrong or unacceptable by any means.
00:12:58.100 I think every group of people, whoever they are, I'm a Catholic. 0.94
00:13:01.440 The Catholic Church sex scandal, abuse scandal was utterly horrific.
00:13:06.220 You know, it's just one of the most unspeakable things imaginable. 0.82
00:13:09.360 That people purporting to be priests were out there abusing children for decades.
00:13:14.400 And it is still going on, I'm sure.
00:13:16.720 And I, as a Catholic, feel totally ashamed about the total lack of accountability, the
00:13:22.220 cover-ups that went on and the abuse.
00:13:24.280 So I feel exactly the same way about my own church as I do about what's happened here
00:13:28.660 with these British Pakistani Muslims towards, predominantly British Pakistani Muslims, towards 0.99
00:13:34.120 young girls.
00:13:34.740 But this, I think you and I talked about this before, Gad.
00:13:38.160 The woke ideology was definitely a contributing factor here.
00:13:42.900 People did not want to put their head over the parapet because they were terrified of getting
00:13:48.540 shot.
00:13:48.920 Exactly right.
00:13:52.140 Look, cultural relativism is a pathogenic idea that I discuss in The Parasitic Mind because
00:13:59.400 it purports that who are we to judge the cultural practices, the religious practices of another
00:14:05.620 culture. 0.98
00:14:06.220 So if another culture wants to cut off the clitorises of five-year-old girls, who are you to 0.99
00:14:11.540 judge, you cultural imperialists? 0.99
00:14:14.140 No, I am here to judge.
00:14:15.800 There are absolutist, deontological, moral principles that any decent person should abide
00:14:22.400 by. 0.99
00:14:22.980 Cutting off the clitorises of literal girls is never okay. 1.00
00:14:26.620 And so you're exactly right that the coupling of these parasitic woke ideas with the reflex 0.99
00:14:34.280 of suicidal empathy, put them together, you end up with a cocktail that leads us to the
00:14:39.820 abyss of infinite lunacy.
00:14:41.060 Do you feel, notwithstanding that, the way that I feel, which is I do think the Trump
00:14:46.000 victory and the scale of it and Elon Musk's contributing factor to that, which was, I think,
00:14:52.020 enormous, by going all in with Trump, I think he had a very persuasive effect, particularly
00:14:57.680 on young men.
00:14:58.240 But do you feel, as I do, that the woke worm is really turning hard, that people are sick
00:15:05.800 of it, they're sick of what they see as a modern form of fascism, they are sick of what
00:15:10.660 they see as, as Musk calls it, the woke mind virus?
00:15:14.480 And that the ad we were talking about earlier of Kamala's for they, them, Trump's for you, 0.99
00:15:20.180 this whole personal pronoun bullshit, the gender ideology bullshit, which was manifested 0.99
00:15:26.500 so spectacularly badly with the trans women in women's sport, destroying the integrity 1.00
00:15:32.280 of women's sport, and so on, that it's all on the retreat. 0.98
00:15:35.760 And the reason I think we could say that with some authority now is the incredible statement
00:15:40.400 from Mark Zuckerberg, which is six minutes long and is one of the most extraordinary
00:15:44.400 U-turns I could ever remember a serious public figure like him coming out with, where he
00:15:49.700 basically has just thrown the towel in on this stuff, even down to saying that the Facebook
00:15:55.220 fact-checkers were the problem, because they were coming at the fact-checking from a sort
00:16:00.360 of woke ideology point of view, which is not fact-checking, and so on.
00:16:05.160 But also saying from now on, you will be allowed to have what have been deemed unacceptable views
00:16:10.880 about gender, about all these issues. And I would say, hurrah! It doesn't give you an excuse 0.70
00:16:16.680 to be a vicious bigot, but it should give you the excuse, in fact, the right and the freedom
00:16:22.500 to express yourself about these issues.
00:16:26.060 Yeah, so I do think that, of course, thank God that Trump won. He will serve as a doorstop
00:16:32.840 against the woke insanity. But I keep trying to remind people not to be complacent in the
00:16:39.340 following sense, Pierce. It took about 50 to 100 years for many of these parasitic ideas
00:16:46.340 to develop into the big woke monster that we eventually saw, right? So some of these ideas
00:16:51.620 were spawned on university campuses close to 100 years ago. For example, cultural relativism.
00:16:57.680 Postmodernism developed on university campuses, you know, about 50, 60 years ago. So these ideas
00:17:04.200 have not been completely extinguished. Yes, Donald Trump coming in, he'll be able to clean house
00:17:10.060 very quickly, but the battle will be much longer. So we can't be complacent. Hopefully it won't take
00:17:16.240 50 to 100 years to eradicate all those bad ideas, but it doesn't start and end with Trump. It's a good
00:17:22.020 first step, but let's keep fighting for truth.
00:17:24.200 Yeah. Gadsak, great to have you back on Uncensored. Let's not leave you so long next time.
00:17:28.560 It's been very civilised. Very civilised. A template in civilised, reasonable debate.
00:17:34.220 Great to see you. Thank you. You too. Cheers.
00:17:37.040 Matthew, what did you make of that? Oh, I agreed with most of it. Yes.
00:17:39.660 Thank you.