The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - November 10, 2026


Hesh Kestin - Jewish Novelist Cancelled by Wood Cricket Jews (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_1076)

Discussing Islam, Islamism, and political Islam with Joe Rogan (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_1075)

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 2 minutes

Words per minute

133.2

Word count

8,339

Sentence count

482

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

16

sentences flagged

Hate speech

87

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Americans endorse the ideal of liberty and justice for all, but while the current educational system
00:00:06.000 gives students ample opportunity to study issues of justice, it overlooks the liberty part of the
00:00:12.660 American tradition. The Declaration of Independence Center at the University of Mississippi exists to
00:00:18.920 create opportunities to study that neglected part of this inheritance. We want students to
00:00:25.440 appreciate the commitment required to preserve America as a free sovereign nation. We want
00:00:31.500 students to understand their rights to free speech, assembly, and worship as enshrined in the Bill of
00:00:37.620 Rights. We want students to value the environment of liberty made possible by the U.S. Constitution
00:00:43.600 which was designed to thwart exercises of arbitrary and tyrannical power. And we want students to
00:00:51.160 cherish the ideal of freedom as self-government built upon the moral, ethical, and religious
00:00:57.960 traditions unique to Western civilization and culture. The Declaration Center advances these
00:01:03.700 goals with academic programming, scholarships, and public events, and we hope that you'll visit
00:01:10.080 our website or follow us on social media to learn more. Hi everybody, this is Gad Saad, another
00:01:16.100 Another fantastic guest for you today, and we're connected through his son. I'll talk about that in a second. I've got Hesh Keston with me, who is a former foreign correspondent, mainly for Forbes, but has written for many people. First, let me say hello, Hesh. Welcome to the show.
00:01:33.840 Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here, God.
00:01:35.940 Oh, it's so good to be with you. And I might be correct in saying, because I saw you light up a cigar, you might be the first Sad Truth guest smoking a cigar on the show. So kudos to you, sir.
00:01:50.300 If you wait long enough, you'll see me drinking as well.
00:01:53.300 Good. Now, would that be, if you're drinking, is that because the conversation is going well or poorly?
00:01:59.180 it's it's i i drink when i'm happy also also sometimes when i was a war correspondent when
00:02:06.560 i was under fire ah okay fair okay so let's see if we'll get the the the alcohol flowing let me
00:02:12.320 mention so after you were a foreign correspondent you then became a prolific author let me work i
00:02:18.800 think from earliest to latest here are your books based on a true story i like i love the title the
00:02:27.060 next one the iron will of shoeshine cats then we've got the lie then we have the siege of tel 0.56
00:02:35.020 aviv and then your most recent one the wrong jew defeating those who wanted us dead and you have
00:02:42.620 your own cancellation story anything you want to add to your uh intro before we get going you know
00:02:48.400 but i i was thinking when you said a former foreign correspondent i prefer to think of myself
00:02:53.920 as a recovering foreign correspondent now why is that it wasn't it wasn't a good career choice
00:03:00.400 because because you know journalism is known as the the uh the first draft of history but the fact
00:03:07.800 is that journalism is in and of itself a kind of pretense at the truth we know very little about
00:03:18.940 the bigger picture when we're in the field writing this stuff uh we always think that we do know
00:03:26.200 and in a sense uh fiction which i turn to gives us a much better picture of the truth if it's done
00:03:32.960 well and truly uh then uh the so-called truth that we make a living at i can i can relate to
00:03:42.340 what you're saying but in a in a slightly different way so i'm a by by in terms of my
00:03:48.220 academic career i apply evolutionary psychology to study human behavior and evolutionary psychology
00:03:55.060 could be applied to many disciplines including literature fiction where the argument is that
00:04:01.380 the reason why literature titillates us so is because it is an accurate window to our human
00:04:07.740 nature. So that speaks to exactly what you're saying, right? I agree. In fact, my mentor in
00:04:15.480 these matters was a fellow named Arely Arif, who was a lieutenant general in the IDF. And
00:04:25.560 he was the head of military intelligence at the time of the Six-Day War. And he said,
00:04:35.380 what we need in military intelligence is fewer analysts of what was and more novelists about
00:04:44.000 what will be or may be. Very interesting. I mean, we'll get back into sort of the main
00:04:52.300 issues that we want to discuss. But since I have a novelist in front of me, one of my great regrets
00:04:58.160 so far uh which i think i can remedy at any point is that when i look at my reading diet
00:05:05.280 i'm much more of a non-fiction guy and i and i say i regret that i'm not more of a fiction guy
00:05:12.880 because there's tons of great literature that i've yet to read i'm trying to remedy that now by
00:05:18.140 buying you know all of you know many of the classics and hopefully reading them you know
00:05:22.860 many years ago i bought crime and punishment by dostoyevsky i'm trying to convince my daughter
00:05:27.640 to read it now what's your reading regimen are you more of a fiction guy or are you equal 50 50
00:05:34.560 what's your story actually actually both but now that you say you want to read more fiction i i sort
00:05:41.840 of got the inference made the inference that i'm going to have to send you some novels
00:05:46.360 meaning your novels or you're gifting oh yeah not not anybody else's listen i'm in competition
00:05:53.600 with a lot of people. And the sad fact, not the sad fact, about Western culture is that we have
00:06:05.500 produced general literacy in the Western world, which is a huge change from what was true even
00:06:17.120 as few as about 200 years ago. And everybody believes that because they read, they can write.
00:06:23.600 So my problem is the world is flooded with bad fiction, and there's really a way to stand out.
00:06:36.260 And the way we stand out is to become our own marketers.
00:06:43.200 And if we're marketing our own stories, we're not writing them.
00:06:48.400 And it's, you know, push me, pull you.
00:06:50.320 You can't do both at the same time.
00:06:52.820 So I spent, I guess, 20 years after I gave up journalism, being a purely a novelist.
00:07:04.140 And I realized from about midway that I have to push my stuff before the world.
00:07:12.760 And one of the ways that the world pushed back, unfortunately, was in censoring me, which is...
00:07:19.500 We'll get into that in a second. Hold on a second.
00:07:21.520 I just want just because I remembered that I promised that I would mention that how you and I connected.
00:07:26.640 And I don't think he would mind that I mentioned the story publicly because it's a beautiful story.
00:07:31.160 So I was with my family in Israel this past January.
00:07:37.860 I was giving a talk in Tel Aviv and then another one in Jerusalem.
00:07:42.660 And as our guide was taking us to various areas between these two talks, at one point he said,
00:07:49.980 oh i i hear professor that you're a soccer fan and so on i said yeah i'd love to go to a game
00:07:55.420 and so on and so he starts to find the he's trying to find a way to get me to go to a game
00:08:01.820 and he says oh there's a great game coming up between maccabi natanya and maccabi haifa let
00:08:09.460 me see if i can make some calls and these are very well connected guys and he can't he can't
00:08:13.840 come up with a with a solution to the problem so in my incredible chutzpah i i decide did you know
00:08:21.440 the story by the way uh i'm suspecting where you're going with this okay so i said oh who who
00:08:28.880 owns either teams tell me who owns uh uh maccabi natanya he goes so he he gives me the the contact
00:08:36.780 Now, I've never met or spoken with Ross, your son.
00:08:42.740 And so I find them on LinkedIn and I send them a quick request without the requisite sort of salutation.
00:08:51.400 Dear Mr. Keston.
00:08:53.220 So I'm like, this is Gadsad.
00:08:56.360 The Sad family needs four tickets.
00:08:59.800 So he responds right away.
00:09:01.940 Oh, what a pleasure it is to hear from you.
00:09:03.740 here are the four tickets within an hour or two we're at this unbelievable game and then eventually
00:09:09.260 we got to know each other and he said you know you really need to speak to my uh father he's a
00:09:13.760 he's a great guy i think you guys have a great conversation did that story surprise you or is
00:09:18.840 that part and parcel of your son it uh it is my son the only disappointing thing here the only
00:09:25.000 negative for me is that i lived in israel for 20 years uh i was pretty well known uh because i also
00:09:32.360 ran a uh an israeli newspaper and uh when i walk with ross on the street anywhere in israel not
00:09:40.540 just in netanya but in tel aviv or jerusalem people stop and shake his hand not mine it is
00:09:48.580 it is it is i don't know if it's if it's as a father i'm very happy exactly i was going to say
00:09:54.320 don't you want as a good father as a novelist uh there's some question fair enough okay so let's
00:10:01.680 now turn to your own cancellation story, which you sent me in your inaugural email when we first
00:10:08.480 started speaking. You told me about it. Please tell us that story. Okay. You know, the funny
00:10:12.760 thing about this is that I never expected to be a martyr. It's a very strange feeling and one which
00:10:24.280 I don't want to continue being, but it looks like this is my fate. The good thing is it happened
00:10:32.120 when I was in my 70s. So that would be about seven years ago now. And the story is very simple.
00:10:40.240 So I had written a novel called The Siege of Tel Aviv. And it was being brought out,
00:10:48.420 It was brought out by a boutique publisher named Zank, D-Z-A-N-C, that puts out, at that time, I think they were putting about 20 books out a year.
00:11:03.240 And they did a very good job with my books.
00:11:06.460 And so I wanted this place with them, even though my previous publisher was Scribner, which is the Rolls-Royce of American publishing.
00:11:15.980 Unfortunately, if you've ever known anybody with a Rolls-Royce,
00:11:20.760 they're never happy with it.
00:11:24.260 So anyway, this was a very personal boutique publisher.
00:11:30.580 And the day of publication on Twitter, which is now X,
00:11:38.920 Some 13 messengers came out accusing me and the book, The Siege of Tel Aviv, of being Islamophobic and racist, because the book tells what theoretically may happen had what happened on October 7th been widespread.
00:12:06.280 And five Islamic armies led by Iran overrun Israel, conquer Israel.
00:12:17.700 And when the smoke clears, some 6 million of the 8 million Jews in Israel are transferred, usually by rail, to an internment camp that is Ghetto Tel Aviv.
00:12:38.380 and people living on the street, on the beach, waiting either to be annihilated, murdered,
00:12:46.500 or being saved by the West. The West does not come to their defense. And in fact, through lock and
00:12:56.680 pluck uh uh certain darker elements within israel assume the leadership of the resistance 0.98
00:13:08.220 as happened during world war ii where the uh uh jewish gangsters were pretty much
00:13:16.760 gangsters and poets were the only defenders of the jews in the warsaw ghetto 0.98
00:13:22.220 So it ends happily. There's a lot of death and destruction. But what these people were who were offended by the theory of the book, the thesis of the book, was that bad Islam conquered good Israel in their eyes. 0.99
00:13:48.600 And they didn't see it that way. They said Islam is a religion of peace. It's also a religion of bomb throwing, but we know that as well.
00:14:01.000 But peaceful bomb throwing. Peaceful. 0.91
00:14:02.880 Yes. So we'll get to that. But what happened then was very strange for me. The publisher immediately got back to me and said, don't worry, everything's OK. I have I have your back and nothing bad will happen.
00:14:21.760 Two weeks later, he recalled 10,000 copies of the book from bookstairs all across North America and Canada and had them pulped, which is to say, apparently, the Nazis didn't have pulping technology, they just burned them and wasted it. 0.73
00:14:41.000 This was echo friendly. And the next step was that my agent, who was the is, I think, still the doyen of American literary representatives, decided to no longer represent me and I couldn't get published.
00:15:02.340 And I tried to get published under my name, but it was well enough known that I hadn't apologized for offending Islam, which is the case mostly with people who are novelists and writers who are censored and canceled, always come back and say, our mistake, we're very sorry.
00:15:27.700 We didn't mean this. Take us back. And as in Stalinist Russia, that's enough.
00:15:34.820 OK, and that usually is enough. But I made the mistake of not apologizing.
00:15:40.020 One of the crimes against me was that I had on the cover misspelled the name of the religion or those who followers of the religion as Muslims instead of Muslim. 1.00
00:15:57.700 M-U-S-L-I-M 0.94
00:15:59.960 and I knew 1.00
00:16:02.660 that these people
00:16:04.160 who had been offended
00:16:05.780 had not read the book
00:16:07.380 first of all because
00:16:08.160 it was published
00:16:11.040 that is to say it was announced
00:16:13.180 that day and sent to bookstores
00:16:14.920 they hadn't read it
00:16:16.020 what they had read
00:16:17.420 was the misspelling of Muslim
00:16:20.720 to their eyes
00:16:22.080 on the cover
00:16:23.000 in the book actually
00:16:24.840 it was spelled M-U-S-L-I-M
00:16:26.720 So they hadn't even read the book. And oddly, the book is full of courageous Israeli Arabs who defend Israel.
00:16:38.060 So you didn't mention and by the way, sorry, if you hear me coughing while you're speaking, my apologies for that.
00:16:43.760 I'm the one who's smoking.
00:16:44.760 Yeah, I've contracted a really bad cold. So to all our listeners and viewers, my apologies for the auditory jihad.
00:16:52.620 But anyways, I guess it's okay to mention, because you mentioned it to me in the email, that both your publisher and your agent were, drumroll?
00:17:04.900 Yes, are.
00:17:06.200 Are Jewish.
00:17:08.340 Which leads me to my next point.
00:17:10.340 I don't know how closely you follow all of my content and my writings, but I've introduced a term that seems to have caught on, the wood cricket Jew. 0.52
00:17:19.720 Right. 0.54
00:17:19.960 Right. So so we could easily put that publisher and that agent under the appellation of wood cricket Jews. Yes.
00:17:27.300 Yeah. God, the only thing wrong with that appellation is that it is not nearly strong enough. The word is turncoats.
00:17:37.400 Yeah, fair enough. But to your point, I've written several times that I despise the wood cricket Jew more than I despise the Muslim or Muslim, although Arabic is my mother tongue, the Muslim extremist. 1.00
00:17:55.340 Because what could be more execrable than the self-loathing, piggish Jew who says, I am more enlightened than you, Gatsad. You may have experienced whatever you did in Lebanon, but I, Jessica Tarlov on Fox, am here to tell you that as the representative of Jews, we should all be voting for Abdul El-Sayed. Does that get your goat as much as it does mine? 0.98
00:18:23.800 I can tell you something more execrable, more shitty than that. 1.00
00:18:32.020 And it is because I was always asked in Israel, why are you so stupid? 1.00
00:18:37.140 Why have you come here from America when we want to come to America? 0.99
00:18:41.340 You know, and the truth is, I was working for a major metropolitan newspaper in New York in 1967.
00:18:48.880 And my intention was, this was in May of 1967, and I read the writing on the wall, and I realized that war would break out in the Middle East.
00:19:05.540 And my intention was to fly to Israel and be there in time to be the newspaper's correspondent or correspondent, which would elevate my career and also be a lot of fun.
00:19:21.540 So unfortunately, I didn't have a passport.
00:19:25.160 My passport didn't come in on time.
00:19:27.900 And I was forced to watch the war from New York.
00:19:33.700 And as punishment for my overweening ambition, my editors looked around the city room and said, Hesh, take this photographer and this guy on a fellowship, Mexican on a fellowship, to study American journalism and go around to Jewish neighborhoods in New York and ask them how they feel about the war.
00:20:03.160 This was about the third day. So first I had to explain it to my Polish Catholic photographer, what I was doing, and also to the Mexicans who had no idea about the relationship of the people in New York to the people in Israel.
00:20:19.960 And every one of them, to a man, to a woman, said the same thing. And it made me ill. 0.75
00:20:29.540 They said, we're really beating the hell out of those Arabs, aren't we? 0.92
00:20:36.760 And it was very sad for me because they weren't beating. 0.84
00:20:41.300 First, people were dying on both sides.
00:20:44.440 And second, they were not doing anything.
00:20:47.360 They were voting.
00:20:48.260 They were rooting for the Yankees.
00:20:50.460 You know, that was it.
00:20:52.800 And within two years, I became an Israeli.
00:20:57.400 And you served in the IDF, correct?
00:20:59.080 Sir, for 18 years, yeah.
00:21:01.200 Right. 0.98
00:21:02.160 How do you, I mean, of course, I've got my own, you know, theories as to what drives the wood cricket Jew, but I'd love to hear yours. 0.98
00:21:09.420 What do you think explains the fact that so many Jews are so, quote, progressively enlightened, are picketing for, you know, Mamdani and Abdul El-Sayed? 0.95
00:21:21.780 Like, for example, Mandy Patinkin, whom I didn't know who he was until I started seeing his recent clips where he is just imploring everybody, look, I'm Jewish. 0.79
00:21:33.680 I'm Mandy Patinkin. And I can tell you, Jews cannot feel safe in the United States unless they are protected by the overlord Abdul El Sayyid. 0.94
00:21:43.480 So he's taken on the reflex of a, do you know what the term dimmi means? Do you know what that is? 0.61
00:21:49.180 You know, I do.
00:21:50.280 Exactly.
00:21:50.980 So let me just mention it for our viewers and listeners who don't know what that is. 0.96
00:21:54.180 So a dimmi in Islamic tenets is the people of the book, meaning Christians and Jews, 0.79
00:22:01.600 who could potentially be tolerated under Islamic dominion.
00:22:06.140 Some people say a second-class citizen.
00:22:08.160 I think it's even worse than second.
00:22:09.540 It's third, fourth-class citizen. 1.00
00:22:11.000 Know your place, Jew. 1.00
00:22:12.440 You will pay a jizya, a tax, and there'll be a bunch of procedures that will always make sure 0.94
00:22:17.840 that you know your place in Islamic society. And so many Jews and Christians will take on the 1.00
00:22:24.720 psychology of dimitude, whereby, you know, they want to make sure that my big boss is not upset 1.00
00:22:30.660 with me. But this is not in Yemen. This is happening in the United States. I didn't know
00:22:35.480 that American Jews needed the protection of a Muslim Brotherhood adjacent guy for us to feel 0.96
00:22:42.460 say walk us through this hash what's going on well uh you know you understand it better than
00:22:48.260 uh better than i but i i can tell you that uh i almost began this podcast by saying
00:22:55.360 because uh i but i didn't want to get 10 years ahead of myself okay we are going to be in in
00:23:06.520 And that's right now, Michigan is a is a voting block for Arab Americans, as it should be.
00:23:18.780 OK, because New York City and Chicago and Philadelphia were voting blocks for Jews. 0.96
00:23:25.420 People vote for their own interests. 0.99
00:23:28.900 Unfortunately, the interests of, I won't say all Muslim Americans, is domination, okay? 1.00
00:23:42.460 And we'll get in a moment, I think, to why Jews are like this. 0.99
00:23:48.480 American Jews have spent the last 100, 150 years learning to be Americans. 1.00
00:23:55.780 Israeli Jews have spent approximately the same time learning to be Israelis. 0.99
00:24:02.280 They're as different as night and day. 1.00
00:24:05.720 In the book, The Wrong Jew, I start with a joke about two Jews facing a firing squad.
00:24:16.280 And the captain of the squad approaches and says, do you have one last request?
00:24:23.920 and one of them says yes i'd like a cigarette and the other one says shh don't make trouble
00:24:31.140 oh okay so that's one one thing jews american jews don't want to make trouble
00:24:38.620 but but also they have lost that spark of
00:24:45.140 uh defenders of the warsaw ghetto uh that uh that moved migrated totally to uh to israel
00:24:56.960 so these are not strong people these are accountants these are surgeons these are uh
00:25:04.820 these are not blue-collar workers who uh these are not mobsters jewish mobsters during world
00:25:11.740 war ii before world war ii beat the hell out of nazis in new york and chicago and la they broke
00:25:18.760 up their meetings american jews are not like that anymore they were for a short time and they don't
00:25:26.160 exist uh so in fact the the subtitle of the book defeating those who want us dead is where is it
00:25:35.820 Oh, yes. David didn't defeat Goliath with a tennis racket. It didn't happen.
00:25:42.040 So to that point, I mean, you've served in the IDF, so you're obviously well aware of how powerful the Israeli military is in kinetic wars.
00:25:53.640 And I've always wondered, I wonder if you have an insight on this. I don't think Jews in general, and certainly Israelis in particular, are as good in the war of information as they are in the kinetic wars. Why? Is that a fair statement? And if so, why? 0.78
00:26:15.560 Well, when I was in Israel, I was asked by an inter-ministerial committee, I think it was the foreign ministry and the tourism ministry, to help them with suggestions for a new motto to bring Jews to Israel.
00:26:36.220 Because right now, Jews are the smallest group coming to Israel. It's mostly evangelical Christians from around the world.
00:26:45.560 And people who made a wrong turn instead of going to Italy, they came to Israel by mistake.
00:26:51.200 So I suggested to them, see Israel while it exists.
00:26:57.420 It didn't go over well.
00:26:59.400 They didn't want me back.
00:27:02.580 So this is, how do I say it?
00:27:06.500 Israelis are good at one thing, which is surviving. 1.00
00:27:10.960 They're not good at selling themselves. 1.00
00:27:13.760 Right. And perhaps we can't be both. American Jews are great at selling themselves. And what's very interesting about it is their attempts to sell themselves is always the same.
00:27:27.820 They take out full page ads in The New York Times, which is not yet a Sturmer, but it's on its way.
00:27:35.780 And it always says the same thing.
00:27:38.220 And there was a guy who paid millions for a Super Bowl ad that said the same thing.
00:27:44.400 We're nice. Love us. We're just like you.
00:27:47.760 And, you know, they work at it. 1.00
00:27:51.880 They spend American Jews are good at making money, influencing policy and making sure that their kids get into the wrong schools. 1.00
00:28:06.260 Meaning Ivy League. Right. Which I'm a graduate of. 1.00
00:28:12.980 Where did you where did you go to school?
00:28:15.460 I did my MS, Master of Science and PhD at Cornell.
00:28:19.040 Wow.
00:28:19.760 There you go.
00:28:20.720 There you go. 0.99
00:28:22.320 But I'd like to say before they went completely wacko, 0.73
00:28:25.680 I mean, I didn't see any of the woke stuff when I was there.
00:28:28.840 I was there in the early 90s.
00:28:31.400 But in any case, I like what you said about sort of the American Jews are nice
00:28:37.240 because I could take that exact same descriptor and apply it to academics.
00:28:42.140 And so one of the things that I always lament about the archetype of the academic is that just be nice, be polite, be diplomatic, cross your legs in a really cute, effeminate way, but don't be like Gad Saad, because Gad Saad, yeah, he might be a fancy professor, but he's vulgar, right?
00:29:06.480 He uses jokes. He's a satirist. He makes fun of people. He's mean on social media. And of course,
00:29:13.460 they don't understand that that's not because I'm somehow mean in my disposition. I'm actually
00:29:18.500 very warm and affable. But different ecosystems require different modalities of communication.
00:29:25.760 So I can be brash and a brawler and a honey badger when need be. And I could be professorial
00:29:32.740 and pontificate when I'm in the right but professors are not like that that's why I call them 0.98
00:29:38.000 the invertebrate castrati they have no spine and they have no testicles is there a way for us to 0.97
00:29:46.920 inject them with some kind of magic elixir that can make them grow a pair no okay mic got really 0.61
00:29:56.840 No, in one word. And if it does happen, it will be miraculous. So I see, first of all, any society that is anti-Semitic and becomes anti-Semitic is going to be like all those countries that call themselves the Democratic Republic of.
00:30:23.220 Yeah. As soon as as soon as it's called the Democratic Republic of Zaire or the Congo, you know, it's neither democratic nor a republic. So this is. Are you OK? 0.55
00:30:36.640 Yeah, I'm OK. Sorry about that. Go ahead.
00:30:38.160 Okay. So we have this problem. And there was a guy named Mayor Kahana, who 30 years ago started something called the Jewish Defense League. And he was 30 years ahead of his time.
00:31:00.260 uh will jews stand up on their hind legs and fight back will they simply collapse 0.91
00:31:09.740 my theory is that it will go one of two ways either uh jews in america will do that which 0.83
00:31:18.960 is unlikely in my estimation or uh we will have a situation where american jews will
00:31:27.000 attempt to fade into the 0.67
00:31:29.980 woodwork and
00:31:31.820 become secular American
00:31:33.980 without, the publisher
00:31:36.080 by the way of
00:31:37.220 Zank
00:31:39.820 who was, as I understand
00:31:42.080 it, Boren Schwartz
00:31:43.380 became
00:31:44.580 Gillis. He took his wife's
00:31:48.280 his Christian wife's
00:31:50.320 name and
00:31:51.760 okay, so this is
00:31:53.540 typical, this was typical of German Jews 0.98
00:31:56.100 okay okay so we we we have a model for what can happen and by the way you were talking about 0.95
00:32:04.280 uh jews who support the wrong side many jews in germany supported hitler not just by raising
00:32:14.440 their hand and say we like you but giving him money yeah because they were afraid of the 0.66
00:32:19.480 communists. So we are now stuck between the left and the right in America. And how that's going to
00:32:27.920 play out is not something that I can predict. But I do know that American Jews will divide
00:32:35.820 neatly into two piles. One will attempt to become as American and as vanilla as possible. 1.00
00:32:44.200 and the other will be Israelis. 1.00
00:32:47.460 Right. 0.55
00:32:48.320 Well, I know you said you don't want to predict,
00:32:51.520 but can I ask you to predict at least how optimistic
00:32:55.420 or pessimistic you are in light of tomorrow's midterm elections?
00:32:59.640 Are you feeling good?
00:33:00.680 Are you feeling bad?
00:33:01.540 What's your feeling?
00:33:03.560 Well, actually, my two daughters who were in the house this morning
00:33:11.260 were asking, how do I vote, Dad?
00:33:14.200 because they don't like Trump and they certainly don't like
00:33:19.600 Momdani-ism or the El-Sayed syndrome or psychosis.
00:33:28.560 And so we actually went through the list of candidates here in New York
00:33:34.020 and they picked them according to how bad they are.
00:33:39.460 You know, the democracy is often called the making the choice between the the better of two awful alternatives.
00:33:46.400 Right. So I don't know. I really don't know what's going to happen.
00:33:51.600 But I do know that there is there is no sense for American Jews or any others to spend their time wondering why anti-Semites don't like them.
00:34:07.380 And it is absolutely crazy to do that. It is baked into Christianity. And of course, it is a feature of Islam. And I, actually, you got time for another joke?
00:34:22.300 Go for it.
00:34:23.200 Okay. So two Jews are walking down the street in, well, we can make it Montreal, if you like. And one says to the other, $3,600. $3,600 is what I need. And his friend says, you know, Morty, I don't have it. 0.99
00:34:44.560 And he says, yeah, I know you don't have it, but that's all I need.
00:34:48.460 I have a million dollars in Christmas toys tied up in the port, and I need $3,600 to get it out.
00:34:55.960 And if I don't get it, I'll go bankrupt.
00:34:58.540 My wife will leave me.
00:35:00.220 I'll have to take the kids out of private schools and put them in public schools. 0.97
00:35:05.260 My whole life will be ended.
00:35:07.000 just then they pass a church and there's a big sign in front of the church and it says
00:35:14.200 become a christian and get 3600 so the one says morty don't do it don't do it don't even think
00:35:24.400 about it and morty says well look what what do i have to lose let me go in and find out what this
00:35:29.160 is all about so the other one's out there chain smoking waiting for his friend an hour later
00:35:35.160 morty comes out of the church and his friend says well what happened and morty says what do you mean
00:35:40.340 and his friend says did you get the 3600 and morty says don't you people ever think about anything
00:35:50.120 else so he had already internalized the anti-semitism uh so this is this is this is
00:35:59.160 baked in and making uh making you know forcing attempting to to you know the one of the reasons
00:36:07.120 that uh that uh gay marriage occurred in america and i have no problem with gay marriage i don't
00:36:16.320 care if people marry their cell phones as far as i'm concerned which pretty much is the case
00:36:21.540 is that it wasn't the politicians who changed their minds one out of 10 americans has come out 0.84
00:36:32.660 as gay that's like 35 million people that's a tremendous block it's bigger than the jewish
00:36:40.300 and the and the uh and the uh and the arab voting bloc are probably bigger than the farmers uh you
00:36:49.160 know uh so uh the the overton window which you can explain to you may have explained at one time to
00:36:58.020 your people uh has shifted and so it's it's not the you know you you know i made a list of this
00:37:06.640 you know this is what is acceptable right at any given time and the i made a list of the the
00:37:13.620 categories which were uh created not by overton but by somebody else they are when something is
00:37:22.160 unacceptable to the vast majority then radical so there's a fringe that believes in it then
00:37:30.040 because of that it becomes acceptable and then it becomes sensible and then it becomes popular
00:37:35.780 and then it becomes policy so and we have this uh this clearly american welcoming uh idea that
00:37:51.920 most uh muslim americans are not radical and i believe that that's true so but in every survey
00:38:01.740 between 25 and 45 or 50 percent believe that uh october 7th was a pretty good idea okay 0.86
00:38:11.760 the fact is with 30 with so many american muslims 25 percent of them so radicalized is a threat 0.82
00:38:23.600 to american democracy well i mean just to build on that analysis if you if you assume that there 0.95
00:38:30.160 are roughly 2 billion Muslims in the world, what's the number that would make your ears perk up in
00:38:39.560 terms of it being a problem? Let's say you only say 10% are really committed to implementing 1.00
00:38:47.740 their cause through violence. Well, that's 200 million people. Now, if you start doing the
00:38:53.260 concentric circles, even those who may not actively participate in the sort of violent 0.94
00:39:01.200 supremacy that is canonical to Islam, are still going to sit by idly and allow it to happen. So 0.85
00:39:09.240 it's not as though there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who would otherwise fight the mean 1.00
00:39:15.260 ones. And so all of those types of calculations are completely irrelevant, because we do have 0.97
00:39:21.440 1400 years of data that says that can we predict exactly what happens to a society as Islam becomes 0.57
00:39:30.520 dominant? And no data could be any clearer than the 1400 years data that we have. But because of 1.00
00:39:37.500 this, let me point to it, because of suicidal empathy, we're unable to recognize that all
00:39:44.200 immigrants are not equally likely to assimilate within the American ethos. And I hate to say it,
00:39:50.220 I don't, I never want to be pessimistic. I'm unsure that a sufficient number of people are
00:39:56.360 going to wake up in enough time for us to reverse the trend. Or am I being pessimistic? And hopefully
00:40:03.400 you could infuse some optimism. Well, we don't have to look at, uh, we don't have to look at
00:40:09.340 only at, uh, Islam. We can look at, uh, uh, Russia, some 2% of Russia, 1% probably were 0.53
00:40:19.420 bolsheviks okay okay in uh in uh algeria five percent were radicalized five percent and they
00:40:31.000 managed they managed to defeat the french uh without in almost in the blink of an hysterical
00:40:38.340 eye okay so we don't need all these masses of numbers a uh sufficiently motivated
00:40:48.000 and armed, both theologically and in other ways, population can make for great change.
00:40:58.380 The American Revolution was not supported by the mass of Americans or colonials.
00:41:07.300 It was just this gang of Jefferson and Madison and all these crazies managed to do it.
00:41:14.720 And that's what we're looking at.
00:41:17.420 Well, I always tell people, I mean, you live in New York, I say, how many people did it take to alter the skyline of New York? Was it 190 million terrorists? Was it 190,000 terrorists? Was it 1,000? Oh, no, it was only 19 terrorists who woke up that morning and thought, there is no better trajectory for me than to fly these planes into these buildings. And therefore, forevermore, our lives have been changed from these 19 committed guys.
00:41:46.800 Same thing applies within the university ecosystem. You don't need every single person to be a blue haired walkster to create an environment where most people are so terrified that they self censor. You just need a small minority of real loud mouth to keep everybody in check.
00:42:05.140 I'll tell you a story I haven't told publicly, but I'm willing. Where is it? Oh, yes. So here's a book. I'm selling books now.
00:42:16.500 Yes. No, it's not important. I want to get to this because it is important. It says here, the lie is what great fiction is all about. Stephen King. And on this one, The Siege of Tel Aviv, Hesh Kestin's novel is scarier than anything Stephen King ever wrote. And then the fun begins as Israel fights back. Stephen King.
00:42:40.600 I know. I saw that on your covers.
00:42:44.060 Yes. So that was wonderful. And Steve was a great friend. He pushed my books as best he could. I'd never known him. He read one of my books and then he got in touch with me.
00:42:55.420 A wonderful guy, as a result of this, I went to him and I said, Steve, with your clout, you can actually turn this around and get me uncancelled.
00:43:16.460 Okay.
00:43:17.640 In the same way that one man was able to defeat McCarthy in the Senate.
00:43:25.420 okay uh he said senator have you have you no shame and then okay uh unfortunately steve said
00:43:36.120 look i'm afraid of those people i don't want to have anything to do with it please take my name
00:43:42.540 off your books uh can i can i say something about stephen king that won't upset you or
00:43:50.980 can i speak freely yeah please i love him he's a great guy okay well he's a great guy except that
00:43:56.960 if you follow him on social media i mean i don't follow him but i see his stuff he could arguably
00:44:03.100 be the biggest trump derangement syndrome guy in the history of the world and i mean he's got a lot
00:44:09.100 of competitors in terms of trump derangement syndrome so for me it's very difficult to reconcile
00:44:14.560 that you could be clearly he's a brilliant, you know, writer who's been incredibly successful.
00:44:21.320 And yet at the same time, he is so unhinged in his hatred for Trump. And don't get me wrong,
00:44:28.100 I can completely understand why people might have an aversion to Trump, whether it be his
00:44:32.900 personal style, whether it be we can debate his policies. But you certainly, there is no rational
00:44:40.440 reason that Stephen King should be sitting in his house in Maine and spending 99 percent of his
00:44:47.300 waking life, you know, screaming about Trump. And so I'm perhaps not surprised that he asked you
00:44:53.920 that. Am I being too unfair towards him? No, you're being you're you're you're it's 2020 vision.
00:45:00.780 That's what it is. And the fact is that the Stephen Kings of the world are only doing what the members of the Soviet Writers Union did with regard to my favorite writer, who is Isaac Babel.
00:45:21.540 Isaac Babel was a great Jewish-Russian novelist. He even wrote a book called Red Cavalry. He rode with the Red Army. He was a great Russian patriot.
00:45:38.300 And in 1934, 33, 34, Stalin decided that he was a cosmopolitan Jew and nobody should publish his books.
00:45:53.820 And he was thrown out of the Writers' Union, which was the only way to get published.
00:46:00.000 And his great statement of the time was that he is, as a writer, he is a specialist in the literature of silence.
00:46:10.880 OK. And some seven years later or six years later, he was absolutely silenced by Stalin, who murdered him.
00:46:23.320 OK. Along with other writers and artists of all kinds, mostly Jews. 0.69
00:46:28.420 So I don't see that as as a failing. What I do see is the possibility of enlightening the vast majority of Americans, right, left, center, vegetarian, gay, whatever they whatever they are.
00:46:48.380 And I want to do and I'm doing it now with the help of my son, Ross, who is helping provide access to the finance.
00:47:00.780 And my daughter, who is a Hollywood producer of great experience, we're going to make a movie, hopefully in Israel, of The Lie, which tells the story very briefly of an Israeli attorney who is famous or infamous for defending Islamic terrorists in Israeli courts.
00:47:30.780 she becomes something somewhat different
00:47:35.740 when her own son becomes...
00:47:37.500 Right.
00:47:38.440 Okay.
00:47:39.760 And that, in a nutshell, is the story.
00:47:43.880 So there was a...
00:47:46.240 I think he's dead now.
00:47:47.520 Umberto Eco, you may...
00:47:49.260 Maybe you know him personally.
00:47:50.520 You may.
00:47:51.200 I don't know him personally,
00:47:52.320 but I know who he is, yes.
00:47:53.240 Yeah.
00:47:53.920 So he is alleged to have said,
00:47:56.100 we don't know for sure,
00:47:57.580 but he's quoted as having said
00:47:59.180 70 percent of what we know we know from movies i believe that number one hollywood
00:48:09.120 has gone the way of stephen king clearly okay and number two uh movies are still there as a tool
00:48:17.180 and we know that because in 1960 there was a movie called exodus which did you ever see it okay i did
00:48:24.220 Wasn't it a great movie, but it starred Paul Newman, okay, as a Sabra, as the most glamorous and sexy hero of a movie.
00:48:35.200 And it made Israel the heroic nation that it was and is, okay? 0.57
00:48:42.720 And it turned around American public opinion that had been steered by the oil-soaked U.S. State Department, oil-drunk U.S. State Department.
00:48:56.880 And suddenly people liked Israel. 0.53
00:49:00.680 Okay?
00:49:01.420 This was in 1960.
00:49:03.140 And the movie was popular around the world for the same reason.
00:49:06.320 I believe that the right movies made about Israel that are not propaganda, that do not say love us, we're so nice, that show us for what we are, which is tough, brave and idealistic people.
00:49:25.200 I believe that those movies are going to have a chance at turning American public opinion around.
00:49:33.480 Now, American public opinion is right now steered by a small minority of, what do you want to call it, turncoats.
00:49:45.960 They used to call them in Germany, they used to call them watermelon people. 0.56
00:49:52.720 Green on the outside and red inside.
00:49:55.620 Okay. 0.98
00:49:56.540 So these are green on the outside and Islamic or Islamicist on the inside.
00:50:02.920 But it's a very small percentage of the population.
00:50:07.220 Most people in North Dakota, in Mississippi, in God knows where, everywhere in America, have no real opinion about Israel and Jews.
00:50:18.360 And if we can use movies to change that opinion, I think we have a chance.
00:50:27.480 Okay, let me ask you this.
00:50:28.980 Exodus was with Paul Newman, you said, right?
00:50:31.600 Yeah.
00:50:31.800 So a world famous star, very good looking. Can I then assume that the only way that the lie
00:50:40.920 will be equally successful is if you cast me in one of the leading roles so that we can have a
00:50:48.300 repeat of Exodus? Is that a fair assumption? It depends on your fee.
00:50:53.460 Ah, okay. Now, here's the problem. If I'm going to play the leading man, yes, of course,
00:50:59.760 I'm hauntingly handsome but I'm not tall you're you're talking about the height of Lionel Messi
00:51:05.860 can I still pull it off I mean Al Pacino is short we have orange crates for that you can okay okay
00:51:12.100 fine so so that would not preclude me from me playing a leading role in that movie unfortunately
00:51:17.340 what we found is that and we have a leading actress and because we haven't signed the
00:51:22.420 contract i can't tell you who she is she's great uh but it's impossible to find or it's very
00:51:31.680 difficult to find actors of one gender or another who are willing to take on a pro-israeli stance
00:51:42.800 okay the probability of my getting the offer is increasing by the second because i have no problem
00:51:50.040 being in such a role.
00:51:51.760 So I expect your agent, producer, your daughter
00:51:56.080 to be reaching out to me any moment, Hesh.
00:51:59.060 You are brilliant, but somewhat less sexy than we need.
00:52:04.480 Less sexy.
00:52:05.520 Okay, got you.
00:52:06.900 I'll give you sexy, but like that.
00:52:09.200 Okay, got it.
00:52:10.040 Fair enough.
00:52:10.900 Any project other than the one that you just mentioned,
00:52:13.940 any other projects that you'd like to plug
00:52:17.020 before we wrap today's conversation?
00:52:18.940 And I should mention, your son, in pitching the idea that we should chat, had said that my dad is possibly the most charismatic guy you'll ever meet.
00:52:28.700 He was not lying, sir.
00:52:30.540 Any projects that you'd like to pitch?
00:52:33.580 I think it's a toss-up between you and my son, Ross, who is so charming.
00:52:41.100 And people like him better than they like me.
00:52:44.940 Although they liked me when I was 40.
00:52:47.560 There you go.
00:52:48.180 we all age we all age i have to say the fact is that when i was canceled uh by the way i sued
00:52:56.220 uh this guy personally and the publisher personally and uh and and his company uh
00:53:03.680 but uh on a technicality was thrown out in a michigan court ah in a michigan court
00:53:11.540 Deerbor, Michigan?
00:53:13.500 It was close.
00:53:15.560 Okay.
00:53:17.060 Unfortunately, it was in Ann Arbor, a university town.
00:53:21.820 So anyway, the judge decided he didn't want trouble, and that was it.
00:53:27.900 Anyway, the thing is, we are in a crucible situation.
00:53:33.820 And it has, to me, to my mind, it has less to do with the Jews specifically than it does the sanity, the life, and the vigor of the American Republic. 0.91
00:53:55.940 Now, I know that you come from the People's Republic of Canada, and I think that's already fallen by the wayside. 0.94
00:54:08.180 And the fact is that Europe, which in many places, is already 10% Muslim. 0.99
00:54:16.300 Sweden has, as far as I know, now the highest crime rate in Europe. 0.97
00:54:22.360 But that's only because the Swedes were not welcoming enough to the noble, peaceful Muslims. 0.99
00:54:29.100 Had they been more welcoming, then the Muslims wouldn't have been forced to gang rape them. 0.99
00:54:33.940 You have to remember that. 1.00
00:54:35.300 Okay.
00:54:35.740 There are now neighborhoods in Sweden that the police do not enter.
00:54:40.760 Yeah.
00:54:41.020 And that's common in France.
00:54:42.860 It's common in Holland.
00:54:44.540 It's common all over.
00:54:45.840 It's not common in Turkey, oddly, because the Turks who make up most of the Muslims are far less anti-Semitic than their prime minister in Ankara.
00:55:07.040 Okay. But right now, we have a chance. Australia has gone. Canada has gone. The U.S. may be the last bastion of true, noble democracy.
00:55:22.140 And forgive me for interrupting you, to your point, and I don't mean to be plugging my current position, as you may know, I hold the professorship right now at the Declaration of Independence Center for the Study of American Freedom at Ole Miss, precisely for the reasons that you said, which is there is a strong revival of this sense of the need to defend American exceptionalism in the university.
00:55:52.140 in the South, University of Tennessee,
00:55:54.620 University of Florida, University of Texas,
00:55:58.100 Austin, University of Austin, Ole Miss. 0.97
00:56:01.260 So maybe all is not lost, Hesh. 0.97
00:56:05.040 Well, I'm sure you want to conclude this
00:56:07.640 before we rant further,
00:56:09.400 but I can tell you this is not new.
00:56:13.440 It started quite a long time ago.
00:56:16.060 When I quit this newspaper,
00:56:20.360 i went to the village voice which was uh i don't know if it's still publishing but it was
00:56:28.380 it was the uh the furthest above ground underground newspaper in america it was a
00:56:35.900 left-wing paper this was in new york right yeah yeah and it was the granddaddy of the underground
00:56:41.860 press in uh in in america and perhaps the world and uh uh i went to them and i said i want to go
00:56:49.680 to Mississippi to cover the trial of the murderers of Schwerner, Goodman, and Cheney, who were three
00:57:00.620 civil rights workers, two Jews and a black American, who were killed by the Klan.
00:57:07.400 Wow, as in Mississippi burning? 0.52
00:57:09.740 Right. 0.96
00:57:10.460 Wow, okay.
00:57:11.340 Okay. The trial was in Philadelphia, Mississippi. And so I got the assignment. I drove down there on my own dime and got there.
00:57:28.340 And I fell in with some local Mississippi newsmen, and they invited me to have a drink.
00:57:38.480 And that drink turned into a lot of drinks of white lightning.
00:57:43.260 I don't know if you've been exposed to white lightning.
00:57:45.600 That's homebrew, which is something like 190 proof.
00:57:50.840 I mean, just, I woke up some 10 hours later in the basement of a home in, where was it?
00:58:04.720 What's the, in Jackson.
00:58:06.380 Okay.
00:58:06.840 Oh yeah, the Capitol.
00:58:08.500 Right.
00:58:09.920 And I looked up and there on the, on the wall, I think it was, the wall must have been 10
00:58:19.800 by 15 okay was the largest confederate flag i'd ever seen in my life and i didn't know where i
00:58:26.940 was how he got there i walked upstairs and there was a very nice uh guy uh having breakfast and
00:58:35.460 and uh uh he was he was packing he was he had a he had a gun and uh he explained to me that
00:58:43.280 the others had gone off to cover the trial and it looks like i had missed the trial no and so wait
00:58:50.460 it gets better so uh and he he gave me breakfast and uh i went on my way uh and i realized i had
00:58:58.800 to write this piece but i hadn't seen the trial okay uh so what i did was i wrote what in journalism
00:59:08.140 is called the Thumb Sucker, where you suck on your thumb until you come up with a much better
00:59:14.400 story than the actual event. You explain the event, okay? It's a think piece. And in it, 0.88
00:59:22.620 I said the South was changing, okay? And the one who was most responsible for this was a fellow
00:59:30.280 named Dwight David Eisenhower okay who had sent who had nationalized the Arkansas National Guard
00:59:39.480 to protect six little black kids who were trying to enter a white elementary school
00:59:49.660 and it was a good piece
00:59:51.980 and
00:59:53.120 I went back to
00:59:56.060 New York
01:00:00.300 expecting that the piece had run
01:00:02.000 and I went to the
01:00:03.520 editor
01:00:04.380 and when I found out it hadn't run
01:00:07.840 and I said where's my piece
01:00:10.040 and he said
01:00:11.180 in the village voice you cannot
01:00:13.980 say anything nice about Dwight Eisenhower
01:00:16.380 okay
01:00:18.260 Instead, I gave it to a friend of mine who ran a small underground newspaper in Philadelphia, and he ran it on the cover, and he had trouble.
01:00:30.060 But the fact is, this is nothing new, this insidious attempt to do the right thing so that you don't see the end, which is suicide.
01:00:48.260 in your term. Exactly. Wow. Now, do you, do you see 40, 50 years ago, would you be able now have
01:00:57.320 you gone to see through the internet archives, if you can access that piece when it ran in the
01:01:04.820 other underground? I think it was, I think I have a copy. But I think it's, it's pre internet. So
01:01:11.340 almost everything that that was published, unless it was published in a major
01:01:16.980 the archive of a major public...
01:01:19.860 It wouldn't be digitized.
01:01:21.640 Oh, wow, incredible.
01:01:23.700 It doesn't matter. The fact is
01:01:25.840 this is not new.
01:01:28.200 This is not new.
01:01:29.920 Before World War II, we had
01:01:31.820 our own
01:01:33.520 nativist
01:01:34.740 America First Party
01:01:37.300 and people. 0.96
01:01:39.880 And it's always
01:01:42.100 a small majority that
01:01:43.800 infects the larger majority.
01:01:45.940 and that's why
01:01:46.640 a small minority
01:01:48.300 yes a small minority 1.00
01:01:50.500 and that's why I believe
01:01:52.900 that cinema movies
01:01:55.420 may be one way
01:01:57.480 to turn it around
01:01:58.380 well I hope that
01:02:00.040 The Lie becomes a huge success
01:02:02.960 maybe we'll see you on the red carpet 1.00
01:02:05.120 with all the walksters 0.56
01:02:06.340 maybe you'll be hanging around with Mark Ruffalo 1.00
01:02:08.820 and you could talk about
01:02:10.740 the communist revolution
01:02:12.020 as you accept your academy award
01:02:15.120 I doubt it will be a red carpet.
01:02:18.580 Maybe a red-green alliance carpet, maybe.
01:02:22.740 Such a pleasure to meet you.
01:02:24.080 Stay on the line so we can say goodbye offline.
01:02:26.900 Please extend a warm hello to your lovely son, Ross,
01:02:31.080 and I'll talk to you soon.
01:02:32.240 Stay on the line.
01:02:32.940 Mabruk.
01:02:33.800 Mabruk.
01:02:34.640 Shukran, Habibi.
01:02:35.940 Okay.