The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - How to be Happy - Chatting with Candice (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad

00:00:00.000 There is a whole constellation of knowledge.

00:00:03.100 I know one millionth of what I could potentially know.

00:00:07.000 And that not only inspires me,

00:00:10.220 oftentimes when I'm about to leave on vacation,

00:00:12.520 I argue that one of the most difficult decisions

00:00:14.380 I have to make is deciding which book

00:00:17.060 or two books to bring on vacation.

00:00:22.500 Hello, everybody.

00:00:23.800 You are listening or watching Chatting with Candice.

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00:00:29.500 and the sponsors below.

00:00:30.980 You can also go to chattingwithcandice.com

00:00:32.960 where you can click that link that says buy me a coffee

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00:00:38.940 I couldn't do this without you.

00:00:40.040 All of the proceeds go directly back into the show.

00:00:42.740 If you have not hit like and subscribe, please do so.

00:00:45.480 It takes two seconds.

00:00:46.520 Most of you that are listening and watching

00:00:48.240 are not subscribed.

00:00:49.200 So you don't want to miss a single episode

00:00:50.500 because you'll miss out on guests like we have today.

00:00:53.500 This one is a...

00:00:56.280 Oh my gosh, it's such a treat.

00:00:57.360 I have been waiting to get this guest scheduled for a while.

00:01:00.200 He is a repeat guest.

00:01:02.000 We had to get our timing right.

00:01:03.580 He has a new book coming out.

00:01:05.040 Dr. Gadsad.

00:01:06.220 He wrote The Parasitic Mind, best-selling book.

00:01:09.060 This new one, which I'm sure will be best-selling as well,

00:01:11.740 is The Sad Truth About Happiness,

00:01:13.820 Eight Secrets for Leading a Good Life.

00:01:16.700 It is incredible.

00:01:18.300 It talks about mindset, pleasure, happiness,

00:01:22.280 how to pick the right mate,

00:01:23.640 how to pick the right job.

00:01:25.680 It's truly incredible.

00:01:27.260 I think it's going to help everyone be that much happier.

00:01:30.840 Maybe it's the secret sauce that you have been missing.

00:01:34.200 And if you feel like you could be 1% happier,

00:01:37.160 10% happier or more,

00:01:38.800 please check out this book.

00:01:40.020 You can get it.

00:01:40.680 It's linked below, Amazon, anywhere that you get books.

00:01:43.880 And before we jump into the episode,

00:01:45.660 I wanted to read a quote by my teacher,

00:01:49.600 Dr. Carlos Waters.

00:01:50.700 And it's funny because he just had this really long conversation

00:01:53.280 that he was doing and it was on happiness.

00:01:56.920 So I felt like it was relevant to the show.

00:01:59.420 And a lot of it overlapped with Dr. Gadsad's work.

00:02:03.760 And I just thought we talk about serendipity in the podcast.

00:02:07.000 And this is just a moment of serendipity

00:02:08.580 that I wanted to honor.

00:02:10.700 Understanding our true self is a crucial aspect

00:02:13.120 of experiencing genuine happiness.

00:02:15.680 Our sense of identity is often shaped

00:02:17.660 by the external influences such as social expectations,

00:02:21.580 cultural conditioning,

00:02:22.860 and the roles we play in our relationships.

00:02:25.400 However, true happiness lies in connecting

00:02:27.780 with our authentic self,

00:02:29.420 the essence of who we are beyond the external constructs.

00:02:33.180 It involves exploring our values, passions,

00:02:36.260 strengths, and deepest desires.

00:02:38.880 When we align our lives with our authentic self,

00:02:41.380 we experience a profound sense of purpose,

00:02:43.920 meaning, and fulfillment.

00:02:44.920 This journey of self-discovery requires self-reflection,

00:02:48.920 introspection, and willingness to let go

00:02:50.980 of societal masks and conditioning.

00:02:53.640 And I think that was amazing.

00:02:55.780 And you'll see how it's relevant,

00:02:57.680 especially after you check out Gadsad's book.

00:02:59.920 So please enjoy the conversation with Dr. Gadsad.

00:03:03.840 You're back again.

00:03:05.220 I'm so excited.

00:03:06.160 I've been eagerly waiting to have you on for round two.

00:03:09.400 And I know my people were pitching you.

00:03:11.300 So we had to wait for the timing of this new book,

00:03:13.400 which congratulations on the launch.

00:03:15.960 Thank you so much.

00:03:16.500 I'm equally excited to be with you, Candice.

00:03:18.460 And I'm sorry that I wasn't able to do it.

00:03:22.060 You were gracious enough to invite me

00:03:23.740 to come and do it in person.

00:03:25.440 Hopefully, maybe round three we can do that.

00:03:28.400 But for now, we'll have to settle for remote week.

00:03:30.640 I'd love to.

00:03:31.300 You know what they're actually saying is

00:03:32.400 Wilmington is supposed to be the new Austin.

00:03:35.040 So I'm just, I'm ahead of the game here.

00:03:38.180 It's beautiful.

00:03:39.240 It's not as hot.

00:03:40.240 We have beaches.

00:03:41.440 So maybe next time that you're going on Rogan,

00:03:43.700 you can make a pit stop on the East Coast.

00:03:45.880 Well, I'm going in exactly a week.

00:03:48.320 So it'll have to be probably the next time after that.

00:03:50.520 But yes.

00:03:50.800 Yeah.

00:03:51.120 The next time.

00:03:52.160 Yeah.

00:03:52.760 You're a serial guest on there.

00:03:55.060 I am.

00:03:55.800 I'm fortunate enough to be so.

00:03:57.340 Yes.

00:03:57.520 Thank you.

00:03:58.300 What's interesting.

00:03:59.620 I was thinking of the last time we talked

00:04:01.480 and we were talking about what is a honey badger.

00:04:04.340 And in my mind, it was honey badger to this happiness project,

00:04:08.760 which I think is so amazing.

00:04:11.500 What inspired you to show like the softer side

00:04:16.000 or this lighter side and going into happiness

00:04:19.600 instead of like this more, I don't know,

00:04:23.160 the honey badger side.

00:04:24.600 Right.

00:04:25.120 Sort of more combative issues, right?

00:04:27.200 You have to, by the very nature of my last book,

00:04:30.180 you're taking on ideas.

00:04:31.580 You're taking on people's belief systems.

00:04:33.620 And so by its very nature, it's going to be,

00:04:35.520 you know, a bit darker.

00:04:37.640 But that's a great question.

00:04:38.920 Thank you.

00:04:39.180 And I actually discussed it briefly

00:04:40.420 in the first chapter of the forthcoming book.

00:04:42.860 So I received tons of feedback from,

00:04:46.620 you know, from my platform,

00:04:48.680 from the people who follow me saying,

00:04:50.760 hey, how do you always seem to have a twinkle in your eye?

00:04:54.480 You're always smiling.

00:04:55.660 You're always joking.

00:04:56.920 Yet you take on all these serious issues.

00:04:59.060 What's your secret, professor?

00:05:00.320 So that was the first thing that compelled me

00:05:02.460 to write this book.

00:05:03.600 And secondly, I noticed that oftentimes,

00:05:05.980 I don't really operate too much in prescriptive world.

00:05:09.420 What I mean by that is,

00:05:10.620 here are the seven steps to lose weight.

00:05:13.020 Here are the three steps to make your spouse happy.

00:05:17.280 That's never been, you know,

00:05:18.980 the ecosystem that I've inhabited

00:05:20.560 because as a professor,

00:05:22.000 I'm much more in descriptive world.

00:05:23.840 I want to describe why people do the things that they do.

00:05:26.640 But often I found that when I put out some advice,

00:05:30.660 some unsolicited advice,

00:05:32.480 that would be the stuff that would receive

00:05:34.500 the greatest amount of feedback from people.

00:05:37.100 So for example,

00:05:38.380 to the earlier point that we mentioned about Joe Rogan,

00:05:41.200 of all the times I've been on Joe Rogan,

00:05:43.140 probably the singular snippet

00:05:45.080 that received the most attention

00:05:47.060 is when Joe asked me,

00:05:49.200 so what was your secret to becoming trim again?

00:05:52.140 I lost a lot of weight.

00:05:55.160 And so then that got me thinking,

00:05:57.240 you know,

00:05:57.520 maybe I can have the audacity

00:05:59.520 to actually put together a book

00:06:01.780 where I can't guarantee you

00:06:03.740 that reading my book

00:06:05.580 will assure you to be happy,

00:06:07.800 but I can hopefully increase your probability

00:06:10.520 of being happy

00:06:12.000 by adopting certain mindsets and so on.

00:06:13.960 And so I said, you know what?

00:06:14.720 I'm going to throw my ring into it.

00:06:16.880 I wrote a book

00:06:17.560 that was about negative mindsets,

00:06:19.380 the last book.

00:06:20.080 Let's now complete the circle

00:06:21.720 by talking about positive mindsets.

00:06:24.040 I love that.

00:06:25.080 And I think a lot of people,

00:06:26.460 probably friends within our ecosystem

00:06:28.920 could use this

00:06:29.660 because you have a huge social following

00:06:31.720 and you engage a lot,

00:06:34.080 but the difference that I see between you

00:06:35.620 and some other people that we may know

00:06:37.240 is like you do have this lightheartedness about you

00:06:40.360 and you are happy.

00:06:44.160 You can objectively see that

00:06:45.140 and other people you see that it's draining them.

00:06:47.300 So how do you not take things personally?

00:06:49.600 Because people will block you.

00:06:52.000 People will say nasty things.

00:06:54.220 How do you protect your space?

00:06:56.060 So I do think an element of that

00:06:58.700 is just your personhood.

00:07:00.200 It's just the unique genes that you have

00:07:02.400 that make up who you are.

00:07:03.600 And at the start of the book,

00:07:04.760 I basically argue that,

00:07:06.880 well, I cite research that says

00:07:08.440 that about 50% of our happiness

00:07:11.140 stems from our genes.

00:07:13.240 But of course, the good news,

00:07:14.780 that means there's still 50% up for grabs.

00:07:17.080 So what are some things that we can do

00:07:18.620 that can, wherever we are

00:07:20.080 on the happiness set score,

00:07:22.100 we can improve on.

00:07:23.640 And so for me,

00:07:24.760 from an environmental perspective,

00:07:27.000 I think having grown up

00:07:28.420 through some of the horrors

00:07:29.560 of my childhood,

00:07:31.100 the Lebanese Civil War and so on,

00:07:33.020 I'm always able to contextualize

00:07:35.740 anything that I'm going through

00:07:37.500 that I'm feeling anguish about

00:07:39.400 in light of what could have been

00:07:41.860 given what I went through

00:07:43.400 in the Lebanese Civil War.

00:07:44.240 So I'll give you a minor example

00:07:46.920 that highlights this.

00:07:48.820 So as I was about to embark on,

00:07:51.080 you know, the media tour

00:07:52.300 to promote my book,

00:07:54.100 you know, you wake up,

00:07:55.160 you're anxious,

00:07:56.680 oh, I have to travel here,

00:07:57.600 I have to travel there,

00:07:58.340 I've got a million shows to do.

00:07:59.900 And so you can easily allow

00:08:01.380 that stress to take over.

00:08:02.800 And then right away,

00:08:03.840 I kind of thought to myself,

00:08:05.680 are you really complaining

00:08:08.240 and whining to yourself

00:08:09.540 that you're going to be speaking

00:08:11.200 to all kinds of interesting people

00:08:12.980 who actually have given you

00:08:14.300 their forum to speak

00:08:15.580 and you're,

00:08:16.680 because you're going to promote

00:08:17.880 a book that hopefully

00:08:18.820 is going to do well,

00:08:19.920 snap out of it.

00:08:20.720 And so I think by always contextualizing

00:08:23.360 whatever is upsetting you

00:08:24.780 in light of the bigger picture,

00:08:26.540 it can hopefully ground you

00:08:27.700 back to reality.

00:08:28.920 So I would assume

00:08:29.660 that's a muscle

00:08:30.200 that you have to work

00:08:31.200 because it's not going

00:08:32.220 to be reflexive initially.

00:08:33.640 So some people tend

00:08:34.740 to be stuck on this lower,

00:08:37.080 like if you see like these arcs,

00:08:38.580 kind of like a graph

00:08:39.480 where it's sneaking up and down,

00:08:40.820 if you're at this high point,

00:08:42.100 it's very easy to have gratitude

00:08:43.500 and appreciate everything

00:08:44.680 that's going well for you.

00:08:46.540 But if you're stuck in this rut,

00:08:48.080 then all you see is the negative.

00:08:49.800 So it's really hard

00:08:50.540 to kind of have

00:08:51.320 that upward spiral moment

00:08:52.800 or to train your brain to do it.

00:08:54.980 Do you have steps for that?

00:08:56.080 Or is it just awareness

00:08:57.540 and interjecting?

00:08:58.600 Well, certainly awareness.

00:08:59.920 But I also think

00:09:00.900 if you view whatever thing

00:09:03.220 that you're trying to achieve

00:09:04.320 at its end point,

00:09:05.920 then oftentimes

00:09:06.440 it could become daunting.

00:09:07.640 But if you simply atomize it

00:09:10.760 to let me win today.

00:09:12.900 So what do I mean by that?

00:09:13.700 Let's take, for example,

00:09:14.500 the weight loss thing, right?

00:09:15.720 If I had started,

00:09:17.780 which I have done in the past

00:09:19.040 and say, you know,

00:09:20.280 I probably could afford

00:09:21.920 to lose 50, 60, 70 pounds.

00:09:24.460 I'm never going to get there.

00:09:26.340 Well, I've already lost.

00:09:28.220 I'm at the bottom of the curve,

00:09:29.800 as you said.

00:09:30.680 But if I say every single day,

00:09:33.220 there are three possibilities

00:09:34.860 that could happen

00:09:35.880 as relating to my weight.

00:09:37.720 My weight can stay the same.

00:09:39.540 It can go down that day

00:09:41.020 or it can go up that day.

00:09:42.480 How about I just make sure

00:09:44.400 that on every single day,

00:09:46.580 however little amount,

00:09:48.380 it's always that I weigh less today,

00:09:50.700 even if the scale

00:09:51.860 can't pick it up, right?

00:09:53.520 Well, guess what?

00:09:54.620 I win today.

00:09:55.660 I win tomorrow.

00:09:56.760 I win the next day.

00:09:57.900 I win for six months

00:09:59.180 and suddenly I get on the scale.

00:10:01.120 Holy moly,

00:10:01.740 I haven't been that weight

00:10:02.680 since, you know, 2001.

00:10:04.700 And so I think that there are ways

00:10:07.600 by which we can,

00:10:08.520 you know, contextualize

00:10:10.280 what the ultimate summit is

00:10:12.640 in smaller steps

00:10:13.920 to at least make it more digestible.

00:10:15.860 And if you do that,

00:10:16.720 I think you're more likely to succeed.

00:10:18.660 So I guess we should also go back

00:10:20.540 and define happiness.

00:10:22.100 So what does happiness mean to you?

00:10:23.740 Because I think,

00:10:24.580 especially in the West,

00:10:25.620 that there is a lot of confusion

00:10:27.000 as to what happiness is.

00:10:29.020 Yeah, sure.

00:10:29.580 That's a great question.

00:10:30.400 So, of course,

00:10:30.880 in the academic literature,

00:10:32.000 there are all kinds of debates

00:10:33.300 about the difference

00:10:34.440 between happiness

00:10:35.340 and contentment

00:10:36.780 and well-being.

00:10:38.380 And some people,

00:10:39.580 of course,

00:10:39.820 also confuse

00:10:40.580 sort of short-term

00:10:41.960 dopamine hits,

00:10:43.600 you know,

00:10:43.780 pleasure stuff.

00:10:45.120 You know,

00:10:45.880 eating a juicy burger

00:10:47.260 makes me happy.

00:10:50.260 Watching a spicy movie

00:10:52.820 might tickle

00:10:53.980 your sexual appetite,

00:10:55.500 whatever.

00:10:56.520 That's not what I mean.

00:10:57.480 I'm talking really

00:10:58.160 if we're going to use

00:10:58.960 sort of an endocrinological framework,

00:11:01.420 I'm talking about

00:11:02.360 the serotonin system.

00:11:03.920 I'm talking about contentment.

00:11:05.260 I'm talking about

00:11:05.780 existential happiness.

00:11:07.320 Do I wake up

00:11:08.120 on any given day

00:11:09.160 and say,

00:11:09.840 I'm really great.

00:11:10.980 I have a great life.

00:11:12.000 Of course,

00:11:12.360 there are all kinds of things

00:11:13.420 that piss me off

00:11:14.240 and, you know,

00:11:15.600 stress me.

00:11:16.560 But am I at a place

00:11:18.200 that makes,

00:11:19.160 that I'm happy?

00:11:19.860 And so it's in that

00:11:20.640 sort of grand

00:11:21.380 existential sense.

00:11:22.520 Do I wake up in the morning

00:11:23.720 and rub my hands

00:11:25.260 for all of the opportunity?

00:11:27.260 Yeah, I'm going to get

00:11:27.800 to speak to Candice today

00:11:29.020 and I've got this

00:11:29.840 and then I'm speaking

00:11:30.460 to a graduate student

00:11:31.580 about some interesting project.

00:11:33.460 So it's in that

00:11:34.300 existential sense

00:11:35.300 that I mean happiness.

00:11:36.560 So more internal

00:11:37.200 than external

00:11:37.800 because I think

00:11:38.340 that's a lot too

00:11:39.080 is we conflate

00:11:40.480 pleasure with happiness.

00:11:41.920 So it's these things

00:11:43.240 that you're seeking

00:11:43.940 that give you

00:11:45.260 like a rush

00:11:46.360 and you're like,

00:11:46.800 that's happiness.

00:11:47.500 If I'm not constantly

00:11:48.180 feeling those fireworks

00:11:49.280 with my partner,

00:11:50.020 then I'm no longer in love.

00:11:52.000 So you feel

00:11:52.720 all of these external things

00:11:54.020 and that's how

00:11:54.480 you're measuring it

00:11:55.240 instead of just being

00:11:55.960 whole on the inside.

00:11:57.320 So it's this constant chase

00:11:58.580 and then you're never

00:11:59.260 going to be satisfied.

00:12:00.780 It's like that old

00:12:01.720 Japanese,

00:12:02.900 like the hungry ghost,

00:12:04.580 right,

00:12:04.740 where they have

00:12:05.100 the big bellies

00:12:05.860 and the long necks

00:12:06.580 and it's just like

00:12:07.100 never, never, never enough.

00:12:08.780 So where,

00:12:10.160 how do you go about,

00:12:11.520 I guess,

00:12:12.100 like feeling that wholeness

00:12:13.380 in this world

00:12:14.240 where we're constantly

00:12:15.760 almost being forced

00:12:16.840 to wear a mask,

00:12:17.620 to go along,

00:12:18.340 to get along,

00:12:19.080 where you feel like

00:12:19.840 you might not be able

00:12:20.740 to share

00:12:21.240 who you authentically are

00:12:22.640 or you're not

00:12:24.100 experiencing alignment.

00:12:25.320 It's like,

00:12:26.040 if you don't know

00:12:26.880 who you are

00:12:27.580 to start with,

00:12:28.620 how do you experience

00:12:29.480 that happiness?

00:12:30.580 So there are several threads

00:12:31.960 that I can take there.

00:12:32.780 Let me start with the last thing

00:12:33.800 that you mentioned

00:12:34.300 where you talked about

00:12:35.160 authenticity

00:12:35.840 and knowing who you are.

00:12:37.100 So I talk in the book

00:12:38.080 about the Delphic maxim

00:12:39.920 that the ancient Greeks

00:12:41.100 were very aware of,

00:12:42.720 which is know thyself,

00:12:43.900 right?

00:12:44.380 And I specifically talk

00:12:45.580 about authenticity

00:12:46.520 and realness.

00:12:47.720 And I don't just mean

00:12:48.820 realness in the sense of,

00:12:50.520 you know,

00:12:50.880 in a one-on-one dynamic,

00:12:53.340 are you someone

00:12:53.820 who's real,

00:12:54.520 who's authentic?

00:12:55.400 Although I do mean that,

00:12:56.780 but I mean,

00:12:57.700 in a grander sense,

00:12:59.260 existential authenticity.

00:13:01.180 So example,

00:13:02.460 if, you know,

00:13:03.840 one of the things

00:13:04.260 I talk about in the book

00:13:04.980 is that at the end

00:13:05.580 of your life,

00:13:06.120 if you can look back

00:13:06.920 at your life

00:13:07.500 and have as few regrets

00:13:09.140 as possible,

00:13:09.760 then all other things equal,

00:13:11.120 you're likely going to

00:13:12.480 be in a happy state,

00:13:14.220 right?

00:13:14.720 Now,

00:13:15.380 let's link that

00:13:16.000 to existential authenticity.

00:13:17.860 If I decided

00:13:19.060 to become a pediatrician

00:13:20.420 because my dad

00:13:21.180 is a pediatrician

00:13:22.080 and his dad

00:13:22.700 was a pediatrician

00:13:23.720 and I know

00:13:24.220 that that's a safe,

00:13:25.620 respectable career,

00:13:27.660 I might go ahead

00:13:29.160 and become a pediatrician,

00:13:30.140 but I've always wanted

00:13:31.020 to be a ceramic artist.

00:13:33.060 And so when I'm sitting

00:13:33.760 at 80,

00:13:34.360 I say,

00:13:34.700 you know,

00:13:34.960 yes,

00:13:35.600 I've been very successful

00:13:36.560 and I've now closed

00:13:37.840 my medical practice

00:13:38.740 and people respect me,

00:13:40.280 but that's not

00:13:41.140 existential authenticity

00:13:42.240 because really

00:13:43.100 what I wanted to do

00:13:44.060 was something

00:13:44.660 completely different.

00:13:45.560 I wanted to instantiate

00:13:46.560 my artistic side.

00:13:48.120 I was very interested

00:13:48.780 in the arts,

00:13:49.300 but I never did it

00:13:50.180 because whatever,

00:13:51.140 people didn't respect it,

00:13:52.160 my parents didn't appreciate it

00:13:53.540 and so on.

00:13:54.300 So I think it's very,

00:13:55.820 very difficult

00:13:56.320 to be truly

00:13:57.420 in a meaningful way

00:13:58.580 happy

00:13:59.300 if you're not

00:14:00.440 existentially authentic.

00:14:01.980 Now,

00:14:02.340 that of course,

00:14:03.940 I'm authentic

00:14:04.660 to a fault

00:14:05.380 in that

00:14:06.300 I'm oftentimes

00:14:07.580 unable

00:14:08.700 to modulate

00:14:09.900 my interventions

00:14:11.440 on social media

00:14:12.520 because I just

00:14:13.840 can't put up

00:14:14.540 with bullshit,

00:14:15.160 right?

00:14:15.300 So I recently

00:14:16.440 had a tiff

00:14:17.120 with a guy

00:14:18.040 on social media

00:14:18.920 who has a very big platform.

00:14:20.860 People had said to me,

00:14:21.940 oh,

00:14:22.040 you should look

00:14:22.480 into this guy.

00:14:23.120 You should get on his show.

00:14:24.260 Then I looked at his stuff.

00:14:25.520 I didn't really know

00:14:26.100 who he was

00:14:26.620 and then I found

00:14:28.340 that some of the

00:14:29.700 full bullshit

00:14:30.960 that he was peddling

00:14:31.800 was really annoying.

00:14:32.920 So at that point,

00:14:33.780 I could have done

00:14:34.200 one of two things.

00:14:35.140 I could say,

00:14:35.940 I've got a book

00:14:37.340 coming out

00:14:38.240 that,

00:14:39.580 pragmatically speaking,

00:14:40.600 let me not

00:14:41.360 go after this guy

00:14:43.060 because I can benefit

00:14:44.760 from getting on his platform

00:14:46.000 but then that

00:14:47.300 would make me feel

00:14:48.380 in the internal voice

00:14:49.860 of my head

00:14:50.560 inauthentic

00:14:51.600 and so I said,

00:14:52.560 I'm going for it.

00:14:54.060 I'm going to

00:14:54.560 criticize him.

00:14:55.700 Now,

00:14:55.940 I didn't do it

00:14:56.620 in any mean way.

00:14:57.740 I wasn't trying

00:14:58.360 to insult him

00:15:00.180 but I wasn't able

00:15:01.440 to modulate

00:15:02.400 what I thought

00:15:03.340 would be appropriate

00:15:04.220 in terms of

00:15:04.880 defending the truth

00:15:05.880 and so

00:15:06.780 like most things

00:15:08.460 in life

00:15:08.920 and that's actually

00:15:10.180 a topic

00:15:10.860 of one of my chapters

00:15:11.960 in the book,

00:15:12.400 I talk about

00:15:13.420 everything in moderation

00:15:14.580 which the ancient Greeks

00:15:15.640 were already

00:15:16.100 well aware of

00:15:16.960 so I call this

00:15:17.600 the inverted U.

00:15:18.520 Too little of something

00:15:19.340 is not good.

00:15:20.300 Too much of something

00:15:21.060 is not good

00:15:21.700 and much of

00:15:22.920 the optimal

00:15:24.260 place that we need

00:15:25.900 to be

00:15:26.140 is in the middle

00:15:26.760 sweet spot.

00:15:28.300 Buddha called it

00:15:29.260 the middle way.

00:15:31.020 Aristotle called it

00:15:32.100 the golden mean

00:15:33.000 and so

00:15:33.940 like most things

00:15:35.200 in life,

00:15:35.660 if you're perhaps

00:15:36.880 too authentic

00:15:37.820 and that you never

00:15:39.180 hold your tongue,

00:15:40.020 that's not good.

00:15:40.980 If you never

00:15:41.580 speak your mind,

00:15:42.460 that's not good

00:15:43.160 and the truth

00:15:44.340 lays or the optimal

00:15:45.400 thing lays somewhere

00:15:46.120 in the middle.

00:15:46.880 So how do you

00:15:47.340 calibrate that

00:15:48.240 sweet spot

00:15:49.020 especially when it

00:15:49.660 comes to the truth?

00:15:50.600 How much truth

00:15:51.240 is too much truth?

00:15:52.200 Because I find myself

00:15:54.320 in a very similar

00:15:55.180 predicament often

00:15:56.240 especially in

00:15:57.260 real exchanges

00:15:58.260 where someone

00:15:58.760 will do or say

00:15:59.500 something that I

00:16:00.160 think is just

00:16:00.880 nonsense

00:16:01.620 and I just

00:16:02.340 without,

00:16:03.420 there's almost

00:16:04.000 no,

00:16:04.820 there's no stop.

00:16:06.340 It's just

00:16:06.620 thought and out

00:16:07.520 because it's just

00:16:08.620 so outrageous,

00:16:09.060 something will be

00:16:09.580 so outrageous

00:16:10.140 especially if it's

00:16:10.740 around like parenting

00:16:11.440 or kids

00:16:12.060 and I just see

00:16:12.600 bad behavior

00:16:13.480 and like shut

00:16:14.060 that down

00:16:14.480 immediately

00:16:14.940 and I did it

00:16:16.000 to a really,

00:16:17.100 really old friend

00:16:17.980 and it didn't

00:16:19.880 land well

00:16:20.600 and it still

00:16:21.500 is kind of

00:16:22.300 a little bit

00:16:22.760 thorny

00:16:23.220 so is there

00:16:24.720 such thing

00:16:25.100 as too much

00:16:25.580 truth?

00:16:26.820 So the way

00:16:27.380 that I would

00:16:27.740 answer that

00:16:28.320 is to draw

00:16:29.320 on two

00:16:30.420 distinct

00:16:31.460 ethical systems

00:16:32.640 which actually

00:16:33.640 I don't

00:16:34.800 spend much time

00:16:35.500 discussing in this book

00:16:36.320 but I certainly

00:16:36.780 do in my

00:16:37.880 last book

00:16:38.360 The Parasitic Mind

00:16:39.060 where I talk

00:16:40.040 about deontological

00:16:41.200 ethics versus

00:16:42.180 consequentialist

00:16:43.180 ethics.

00:16:44.120 So consequentialist

00:16:45.080 ethics would be

00:16:46.220 where you might

00:16:47.120 massage the truth

00:16:48.200 because the

00:16:49.200 consequences of

00:16:50.120 telling the truth

00:16:50.800 are not necessarily

00:16:51.960 worth it.

00:16:52.540 So I always

00:16:53.860 give the example

00:16:54.900 because it's a

00:16:55.480 humorous but true

00:16:56.340 one.

00:16:56.980 If you want to

00:16:58.020 have a long

00:16:58.720 lasting marriage

00:16:59.460 and you hear

00:17:00.160 the question

00:17:00.720 do I look fat

00:17:01.560 in those jeans

00:17:02.200 please put on

00:17:03.220 the consequentialist

00:17:04.300 hat

00:17:04.600 because it

00:17:05.560 may be

00:17:05.980 worthwhile

00:17:06.700 to

00:17:07.200 assuage

00:17:08.500 the feelings

00:17:09.020 of your

00:17:09.300 partner

00:17:09.600 and say

00:17:10.040 no you

00:17:10.540 look

00:17:10.940 beautiful.

00:17:12.740 On the

00:17:13.440 other hand

00:17:13.980 when it

00:17:14.320 comes to

00:17:15.200 the pursuit

00:17:15.920 of science

00:17:16.700 the pursuit

00:17:17.460 and defense

00:17:18.180 of

00:17:18.960 first principles

00:17:20.360 that define

00:17:21.200 society

00:17:22.400 well then

00:17:23.380 there is no

00:17:24.240 I believe

00:17:25.500 in free speech

00:17:26.420 but

00:17:26.860 if you use

00:17:27.640 the qualifier

00:17:28.600 but

00:17:28.980 then you're

00:17:30.000 violating

00:17:30.840 a deontological

00:17:32.000 principle.

00:17:32.760 Deontological

00:17:33.520 means

00:17:34.000 an absolute

00:17:34.960 truth

00:17:35.460 right

00:17:35.720 so

00:17:35.980 presumption

00:17:37.360 of

00:17:37.600 innocence

00:17:38.020 within

00:17:38.480 the

00:17:38.720 judicial

00:17:39.040 system

00:17:39.580 is a

00:17:40.340 deontological

00:17:41.020 principle

00:17:41.480 so once

00:17:42.300 someone says

00:17:42.940 yes yes I

00:17:43.660 believe in

00:17:44.400 presumption of

00:17:44.960 innocence

00:17:45.200 but not for

00:17:46.300 Brett Kavanaugh

00:17:47.120 because he's a

00:17:47.720 serial gang

00:17:48.380 rapist

00:17:48.780 well then you

00:17:49.520 are violating

00:17:50.160 a deontological

00:17:50.980 principle

00:17:51.440 so to your

00:17:52.920 question I

00:17:53.780 would say

00:17:54.340 the way that

00:17:55.960 I'm able to

00:17:56.660 know whether

00:17:57.100 I should

00:17:57.720 modulate my

00:17:58.980 tongue or not

00:17:59.940 is whether it's

00:18:00.860 deontological

00:18:01.500 or consequentialist

00:18:02.580 if it's

00:18:02.940 consequentialist

00:18:03.780 I'll modulate

00:18:04.440 my tongue

00:18:04.900 if it's

00:18:05.480 deontological

00:18:06.300 fasten your

00:18:07.300 seatbelts

00:18:08.120 okay yeah

00:18:09.260 that's really

00:18:09.620 helpful

00:18:10.000 is it the

00:18:10.860 same with

00:18:11.380 I guess we

00:18:11.860 kind of talked

00:18:12.400 about it with

00:18:12.920 authentic expression

00:18:14.180 because obviously

00:18:15.000 you don't want to

00:18:16.160 have unbridled

00:18:16.940 rage you can't

00:18:18.220 just go express

00:18:18.980 yourself and

00:18:19.720 punch somebody

00:18:20.440 so you do have

00:18:21.220 to modulate

00:18:21.900 that so

00:18:22.680 I guess tying

00:18:24.100 it back to

00:18:24.740 the guy that

00:18:25.240 wanted to

00:18:25.760 work with

00:18:26.340 pottery

00:18:26.820 it's you

00:18:27.700 you have all

00:18:28.600 this programming

00:18:29.320 and some

00:18:29.700 of it's

00:18:30.020 not

00:18:30.420 it's not

00:18:32.240 like meant

00:18:33.900 to mess

00:18:34.460 you up

00:18:34.760 as like

00:18:35.140 we always

00:18:35.780 mess up

00:18:36.160 as parents

00:18:36.540 no one's

00:18:36.940 going to be

00:18:37.120 a perfect

00:18:37.480 parent

00:18:37.800 so sometimes

00:18:38.320 you put

00:18:38.720 programming in

00:18:39.380 there that

00:18:39.600 you don't

00:18:39.820 even know

00:18:40.160 you're doing

00:18:40.500 like you're

00:18:41.120 not going to

00:18:41.400 make any

00:18:41.720 money with

00:18:42.160 making stupid

00:18:43.040 pots right

00:18:43.660 go be a

00:18:44.400 pediatrician

00:18:45.140 and that

00:18:46.740 that can do

00:18:47.640 a lot of

00:18:48.200 harm because

00:18:48.700 you have this

00:18:49.140 other person

00:18:49.700 that's really

00:18:50.520 living out of

00:18:51.300 alignment and

00:18:51.940 they might

00:18:52.340 seek a life

00:18:53.060 partner that's

00:18:53.720 out of

00:18:53.980 alignment and

00:18:54.640 they get

00:18:54.960 married and

00:18:56.280 then they're

00:18:56.740 in a horrible

00:18:57.200 marriage and

00:18:57.840 it just kind of

00:18:58.500 starts to just

00:18:59.180 build and build

00:18:59.820 and build into

00:19:00.360 this mountain

00:19:01.020 of of sadness

00:19:02.360 and like being

00:19:03.340 like a counterfeit

00:19:04.140 life essentially

00:19:05.260 so like how do

00:19:06.800 you how do you

00:19:08.340 pragmatically go

00:19:09.760 throughout the day

00:19:10.400 like yes I have

00:19:11.080 responsibilities I

00:19:12.160 have bills I do

00:19:13.860 operate in this

00:19:14.700 3d world but I

00:19:15.740 also have

00:19:16.180 passions so is

00:19:17.180 it that you

00:19:17.660 you do your

00:19:18.720 day job and

00:19:19.420 then focus on

00:19:20.020 your passions at

00:19:20.780 night like how

00:19:21.440 do you not kill

00:19:22.180 your spirit yeah

00:19:23.640 that that's that's

00:19:24.440 another great

00:19:24.900 question so let

00:19:26.900 me tie it to in

00:19:28.120 one of the early

00:19:29.020 chapters I talk

00:19:29.640 about the two

00:19:30.200 fundamental decisions

00:19:31.220 that are likely

00:19:32.180 to impart upon

00:19:34.200 you the greatest

00:19:34.780 amount of misery

00:19:35.420 or greatest amount

00:19:36.420 of happiness as a

00:19:37.460 function of whether

00:19:37.960 you make the right

00:19:38.520 choices or not and

00:19:39.380 decision one which

00:19:40.780 eventually if you

00:19:41.880 want we can drill

00:19:42.440 down on is

00:19:43.720 choosing the right

00:19:44.800 spouse and then

00:19:45.940 of relevance to

00:19:46.980 your question choosing

00:19:47.820 the right profession

00:19:48.960 and what I argue in

00:19:51.040 the book is that all

00:19:51.940 other things equal

00:19:53.040 choosing a profession

00:19:55.820 that allows you to

00:19:56.980 instantiate your

00:19:57.920 creative impulse is

00:19:59.660 probably the best way

00:20:00.980 to find a profession

00:20:02.040 that grants you

00:20:03.000 purpose and meaning

00:20:03.740 that's not the only

00:20:04.560 way but it's

00:20:05.440 certainly one that's

00:20:06.540 almost by definition

00:20:07.880 like it does now I

00:20:09.480 can create in many

00:20:10.280 ways I create by

00:20:11.420 creating online

00:20:13.340 content as a

00:20:14.320 podcaster I can do

00:20:15.680 it by being a chef

00:20:16.660 I literally create

00:20:18.200 culinary art that

00:20:19.680 allows people to

00:20:20.760 share an experience

00:20:21.660 that didn't exist

00:20:22.840 before I created

00:20:23.760 that dish I can be

00:20:25.380 an architect and

00:20:26.260 create I could be a

00:20:27.160 stand-up comic and

00:20:28.180 create material that

00:20:29.580 jokes that no one

00:20:30.420 has heard before I

00:20:31.540 could be an author I

00:20:32.420 could be a professor

00:20:33.080 so there are many

00:20:33.680 ways by which I can

00:20:34.660 you know engage my

00:20:36.920 creative impulse now

00:20:38.500 so to your point

00:20:39.520 though as you know

00:20:40.720 do I wait till

00:20:41.720 after hours to

00:20:42.800 pursue those things

00:20:43.660 it might be that

00:20:45.840 pragmatically I've

00:20:46.960 always wanted to be

00:20:47.640 an artist but for

00:20:48.480 whatever reason I

00:20:49.160 haven't been able to

00:20:49.840 instantiate that and

00:20:50.880 I've become an

00:20:51.440 insurance adjuster and

00:20:52.820 I think without being

00:20:54.340 a denigrating insurance

00:20:55.820 adjusters we need

00:20:56.620 them it's probably not

00:20:57.880 a job that allows my

00:20:59.580 creative impulse to be

00:21:00.700 instantiated it's

00:21:01.520 probably not the job

00:21:02.300 that gives me purpose

00:21:03.580 and meaning but what

00:21:04.780 about at night when

00:21:06.440 instead of watching

00:21:07.740 you know four hours

00:21:08.900 of television I

00:21:10.120 sign up at the

00:21:10.960 local adult learning

00:21:12.140 center to take the

00:21:13.440 pottery courses that

00:21:14.360 I've always wanted to

00:21:15.020 take so so yes in an

00:21:16.920 ideal world if my

00:21:18.220 day-to-day job is one

00:21:20.040 that allows you allows

00:21:21.400 me to immerse myself in

00:21:22.700 play and in creativity

00:21:24.040 and so on that's great

00:21:25.060 but if I can't do that

00:21:26.580 for whatever pragmatic

00:21:27.840 reasons and obstacles

00:21:29.020 that have come my way

00:21:30.040 then there are

00:21:31.000 certainly a slew of

00:21:32.480 decisions that I can

00:21:33.480 make that would allow

00:21:34.760 me to go after that

00:21:36.320 those those needs

00:21:37.480 without it being my

00:21:38.720 profession

00:21:39.160 so I want to circle

00:21:42.760 back to choosing the

00:21:44.200 right mate do you know

00:21:44.980 who Paul Dolan is

00:21:46.600 it rings a bell tell me

00:21:48.520 more about him

00:21:49.480 so Paul Dolan was

00:21:50.940 looking at some

00:21:51.640 marital studies and he

00:21:53.180 interpreted them in a

00:21:54.340 way and I don't know

00:21:55.000 if it was intentional or

00:21:56.060 not because I'm not

00:21:57.080 Paul Dolan but he

00:21:58.600 interpreted in such a

00:21:59.720 way that marriage makes

00:22:01.440 women miserable and

00:22:03.520 it's beneficial for men

00:22:04.700 only and this idea of

00:22:05.920 having kids actually

00:22:07.040 makes women more

00:22:07.880 miserable so childless

00:22:09.160 women are happier but

00:22:11.140 I guess the way that

00:22:12.620 the data was presented

00:22:14.280 it was like is your

00:22:15.440 husband out or has

00:22:17.200 your husband left and

00:22:18.320 it wasn't identified like

00:22:20.180 did he leave the

00:22:20.880 kitchen are you alone or

00:22:22.280 did he physically leave

00:22:23.580 the house and you are

00:22:24.280 separated so kind of a

00:22:26.140 big thing to decipher

00:22:27.480 between he did not so

00:22:29.600 literally the women he

00:22:31.520 was talking to were

00:22:32.360 estranged from their

00:22:33.620 spouse so of course

00:22:34.920 they're going to

00:22:35.580 report dissatisfaction

00:22:37.380 and raise levels of

00:22:38.920 unhappiness but he took

00:22:39.840 it as like this

00:22:40.480 feminist movement be

00:22:42.660 independent you don't

00:22:43.460 need kids and you don't

00:22:44.280 need a man and when it

00:22:46.720 comes to the child

00:22:48.100 studies or like child

00:22:49.580 list studies I'm sure

00:22:51.300 you know that like they

00:22:52.900 are particularly looking

00:22:53.980 at like in the throes of

00:22:55.640 the newborn baby stage

00:22:57.040 and they're like of

00:22:57.520 course you know these

00:22:58.360 parents are unhappy don't

00:22:59.480 have kids well like go

00:23:00.740 scale out to when they're

00:23:01.920 the adults are you know

00:23:03.060 in their 40s and 50s and

00:23:04.240 actually they surpass the

00:23:06.220 people that don't have

00:23:07.140 kids so it almost seems

00:23:08.760 like the sneaky way that

00:23:10.280 people are purposefully

00:23:11.580 misinterpreting data to

00:23:14.200 maybe suit some kind of

00:23:15.680 agenda some kind of

00:23:16.560 feminist agenda some kind

00:23:17.680 of childless agenda I'm not

00:23:18.940 really sure so I'm I'm not

00:23:21.140 sure that I can speak

00:23:21.940 specifically to the Paul

00:23:22.980 Dolan studies that you

00:23:24.920 referenced but maybe I can

00:23:27.180 put the more general

00:23:28.980 question in an evolutionary

00:23:30.140 framework and I think last

00:23:31.800 time that I was on your

00:23:32.540 show we probably covered

00:23:33.740 some evolutionary themes

00:23:35.580 so you know humans are in

00:23:38.800 a conundrum in that we

00:23:40.140 both have the deep desire to

00:23:42.620 engage in long-term

00:23:43.660 coupling because we are a

00:23:45.420 bi-parental species I mean

00:23:46.800 by definition biologically

00:23:48.120 men human males are some of

00:23:50.920 the best dads in the animal

00:23:52.640 kingdom and that we we

00:23:54.160 certainly do stick around and

00:23:55.620 invest a lot more than just

00:23:56.980 copulation and so we are a

00:23:59.200 bi-parental species so it

00:24:00.420 makes perfect evolutionary

00:24:01.420 sense for us to develop the

00:24:03.120 emotional bonding system of

00:24:05.280 romantic love and that we we

00:24:07.120 because we need to stick

00:24:08.120 together for long enough to

00:24:09.320 see our children get to

00:24:10.780 sexual maturity but of course

00:24:12.900 as you also know very well

00:24:15.440 Candice we have evolved a

00:24:17.960 desire for variety seeking and

00:24:19.980 actually I have a whole chapter

00:24:21.080 in my forthcoming book on

00:24:22.980 variety seeking as a pathway to

00:24:25.780 happiness I talk about many

00:24:27.300 different forms of variety

00:24:29.140 seeking food variety seeking

00:24:30.960 exercise variety seeking

00:24:32.460 sexual variety seeking

00:24:34.000 intellectual variety seeking

00:24:35.540 and so humans are are are

00:24:38.180 really in a Darwinian

00:24:39.560 conundrum because from this

00:24:40.940 side of my brain or mouth I

00:24:43.140 completely want to bond to

00:24:44.900 this one woman and be

00:24:45.980 faithful to her but I also

00:24:47.860 from this side of my mouth or

00:24:49.580 brain see all sorts of

00:24:51.080 beautiful women that I really

00:24:53.120 would love to have an intimate

00:24:54.960 encounter with now there is

00:24:57.020 no sort of absolute

00:24:58.680 prescriptive you know remedy

00:25:01.520 to that we also have evolved

00:25:04.080 the moral compass that allows

00:25:05.800 us to asuage many of our

00:25:08.660 Darwinian instincts if I have

00:25:10.040 made a commitment to someone

00:25:11.400 for a monogamous union and I

00:25:13.320 feel that if I were to

00:25:14.920 violate that that would be a

00:25:16.140 betrayal of our trust then

00:25:17.660 notwithstanding the fact that I

00:25:19.200 would look at tons of women and

00:25:20.540 say oh my goodness I she is so

00:25:22.280 gorgeous that's the price that

00:25:24.700 I have to pay to be true to

00:25:26.480 my monogamous union so all

00:25:29.100 other things equal though I

00:25:30.340 would say that the research

00:25:31.860 shows that marriage does

00:25:34.440 correlate with happiness it's

00:25:37.600 not a massive effect but it

00:25:39.420 certainly does correlate so all

00:25:42.340 other things equal certainly

00:25:43.880 having a good partner is very

00:25:46.380 important that's why to our

00:25:47.340 earlier question when I said

00:25:49.120 that there are two important

00:25:50.100 decisions choosing the right

00:25:51.340 spouse choosing the right

00:25:52.240 profession again there is no

00:25:54.120 singular recipe for how to

00:25:56.360 know who's going to be your

00:25:58.360 optimal spouse but there are

00:26:00.160 certain general guidelines that

00:26:01.740 we can use to decide that so

00:26:03.660 for example there are two

00:26:04.880 conflicting maxims when it comes

00:26:07.840 to mate choice one is birds of a

00:26:10.920 feather flock together the other

00:26:12.660 one is opposites track and it may

00:26:15.680 or may not surprise you Candice to

00:26:17.080 know that the research

00:26:18.420 overwhelmingly supports birds of a

00:26:21.460 feather flock together at least

00:26:22.820 for long-term success of a

00:26:25.120 marriage so I'm not talking so for

00:26:27.120 a short-term valiance opposites

00:26:29.400 attract might actually be optimal I

00:26:31.620 may be sexually shy and introverted you

00:26:34.340 may be sexually adventurous and

00:26:37.280 extroverted and therefore you bring

00:26:39.220 me out of my shell and that actually

00:26:41.020 might permit me to have a much

00:26:43.340 better experience but for long-term

00:26:45.860 happiness in a relationship assortative

00:26:49.000 mating but and now you might say

00:26:50.740 well birds of a feather flock

00:26:52.540 together on which feathers here we're

00:26:54.720 talking about shared belief systems

00:26:58.060 shared life mindsets shared attitudes

00:27:01.720 towards important values it's much

00:27:04.340 more choose someone who's similar to

00:27:06.120 you in those regards right so could it

00:27:08.880 possibly that the opposites attract is

00:27:11.140 more your temperament so introvert versus

00:27:13.660 out extrovert and then also like maybe

00:27:16.360 risk-seeking behavior or I don't know

00:27:20.580 like maybe just like more

00:27:21.680 inconsequential things when it comes

00:27:23.580 down to virtues and like what you would

00:27:25.340 build a family upon like those things

00:27:27.180 need to be in alignment but the other

00:27:28.880 things are different although just not

00:27:31.680 to get too much into the trees but if

00:27:33.400 you said let's say risk-taking that

00:27:36.280 could overlap with some general life

00:27:40.220 goals so for example I want to be very

00:27:42.780 much risk-aversive and safe for our

00:27:45.340 future you are very much of a risk

00:27:47.940 seeker you live for the day that might

00:27:51.240 cause some problems in our relationship

00:27:53.160 but if you just mean risk-seeking and

00:27:55.520 that you want to go bungee jumping

00:27:57.180 whereas I'm incredibly safe and

00:27:59.620 everything I do then I think that might

00:28:01.140 be a complimentary so it depends what

00:28:03.400 you mean by risk-taking.

00:28:04.840 Yes that's definitely my dynamic so my

00:28:07.500 husband was just at Abundance 360 it's

00:28:10.080 like this Peter Diamandis like conference

00:28:13.140 and he won one of those zero gravity

00:28:15.680 plane rides and he's doing it and he's

00:28:18.800 like do you want to go with me and I

00:28:21.100 immediately have a panic attack we're

00:28:22.920 laying in bed while he asks me and I

00:28:24.800 just get quiet and he feels my whole

00:28:26.240 body contracting and I'm getting

00:28:27.640 nauseous and I'm like I do not want to

00:28:29.540 go but he invited me what do I do and he

00:28:31.820 goes I just meant to Florida and then

00:28:34.060 like I'll go up and then we'll hang

00:28:36.020 out I was like thank God I have zero

00:28:38.780 interest in that I don't even want to

00:28:41.000 watch you just make sure that they take

00:28:42.740 a video and record it and I hope that

00:28:44.420 you have fun because we are so

00:28:45.720 different in that regard like I want to

00:28:47.540 keep my feet on the ground and he wants

00:28:49.300 to go to outer space so not I share your

00:28:52.000 your tepidness because while I may be an

00:28:55.180 intellectual risk-taker and that I I

00:28:57.920 speak my mind I publish papers that many

00:29:01.040 other academics wouldn't dare do and so

00:29:03.220 on when it comes to some of that

00:29:05.300 physicality so for example heights

00:29:06.980 stuff you know yeah I'm with you I get

00:29:10.900 vertigo I turn into a little girl they

00:29:14.020 act I don't know what I was listening

00:29:15.240 to but they actually said that kind of

00:29:17.040 risk-taking whether it's moral or like

00:29:19.880 societal cultural risk-taking like

00:29:22.380 intellectual risk-taking is actually the

00:29:24.080 rarest form of bravery like doing like

00:29:26.900 the real typically bravado stuff like you

00:29:29.240 know the people that are doing the

00:29:30.680 skyscraper bungee whatever like what you

00:29:32.800 would think of as risk-taking that's

00:29:34.420 actually more common but it's a lot more

00:29:35.880 rare to like say the truth or stand up

00:29:38.300 or risk social isolation or what have

00:29:41.120 you from being honest so well I'll take

00:29:43.900 that as a compliment take that as a

00:29:45.480 compliment I won't feel so bad about not

00:29:47.480 having jumped off some of the 40-foot

00:29:50.240 cliffs that I saw others jumping when

00:29:52.620 we were just on vacation my family and I

00:29:55.620 in Portugal we're in the Algarve which

00:29:58.100 is in southern Europe which is very known

00:30:00.020 for having these really majestic cliffs

00:30:03.020 that you could jump into this glorious

00:30:04.780 water now I jumped off two levels of

00:30:07.360 cliffs which I thought was pretty

00:30:08.720 impressive but then I would see these

00:30:10.400 other guys typically much younger jumping

00:30:12.860 off these insane I mean I couldn't even

00:30:15.000 stand there and they're jumping off as if

00:30:17.120 it's like they're eating broccoli and so

00:30:19.400 it makes me feel better to know that that's

00:30:22.020 very frequent form of risk-taking that's

00:30:24.060 good yes yes no that trip sounded amazing I

00:30:26.700 loved your story that you shared on your

00:30:28.480 podcast about being open and serendipity I

00:30:32.520 was listening it was so cool I felt like I

00:30:34.980 was there with you I was just finished up

00:30:36.780 and this is like a to speak on serendipity I

00:30:39.840 just finished up a podcast with RFK and he

00:30:42.520 was talking about serendipity and he said

00:30:44.540 his interpretation of it it's God tapping

00:30:47.620 you on the shoulder and saying like I'm

00:30:49.320 here and then you tell your story about

00:30:52.100 serendipity which is like the next podcast

00:30:53.820 I listened to and how I know right I was

00:30:56.760 like this is serendipity happening and you

00:30:59.320 talk about this story about just like

00:31:01.120 being open and and then that's when like

00:31:03.320 these really cool moments happen for you

00:31:05.180 and you had this man approach you and ask

00:31:07.020 you like what is the secret to happiness

00:31:08.720 as you have this book on happiness coming

00:31:10.840 out you're like you can't write this stuff

00:31:13.220 like you really can't I think that there

00:31:14.900 is something saying like when you're just

00:31:17.100 like vibrating at a specific level when

00:31:18.780 you're truly happy you become a magnet

00:31:21.260 people are gravitated towards you and they

00:31:23.100 want to know more about you and they find

00:31:24.920 you curious and interesting versus people

00:31:27.080 that are just like so emotionally closed

00:31:28.820 off you just feel that so I thought that

00:31:31.080 was really cool thank you that thank you

00:31:33.100 for mentioning that just before coming on

00:31:36.720 your lovely show so I'd finished I'd done a

00:31:40.000 show myself on on my channel and then I had

00:31:43.200 about 45 minutes I said so I asked my wife do

00:31:45.640 you want to go for a walk and so we ran into a

00:31:49.920 a neighbor who's an older gentleman he has

00:31:53.120 some health issues he's he's he's walking

00:31:55.580 with a walker so we stopped for a few

00:31:57.960 minutes to chat with him and you know he

00:31:59.960 just said he goes you know I love running

00:32:01.860 into you guys you you you both always seem

00:32:04.540 so happy and so you're exactly right I mean

00:32:07.240 you really either exude that or not and now

00:32:10.540 I'm starting even though I'm supposed to be

00:32:13.240 scientifically minded as I say these things I

00:32:16.180 feel like I need to touch wood I certainly I

00:32:18.700 suddenly turn into a superstitious person

00:32:20.540 because you know in Lebanese culture there's

00:32:22.820 this idea of the evil eye right when you say

00:32:25.800 something when you say something like oh I'm

00:32:28.080 so happy now watch when someone looks at you

00:32:30.840 and you know jinx you so even someone who's

00:32:33.800 supposedly scientifically trained can't help

00:32:35.940 but look for the wood to touch as I tell these

00:32:38.620 stories well you can have both right I think

00:32:41.080 what do they say it's the ego and like critical

00:32:44.200 thinking makes a great what is I just listened

00:32:48.060 to it basically it makes a terrible master it's

00:32:50.500 it's very useful don't throw it out with the

00:32:52.660 bath water but also to not like disconnect from

00:32:55.780 like your heart space or from like seeking

00:32:57.860 spirituality or God or whatever it is so like to

00:33:00.540 have both of them where the people that are all

00:33:03.160 the way on the other side in the spiritual world

00:33:05.220 kind of cast out being an intellectual or being

00:33:08.780 articulate or critical thing they're like no that's

00:33:11.400 just of this world and that's useless and it's

00:33:14.060 figuring out like again that golden ratio or that

00:33:17.580 happy middle for for both of it yeah that makes

00:33:20.300 perfect sense and to to tie what you just said to

00:33:22.600 the the story that you were kind enough to share

00:33:24.860 about the gentleman that I ran into in Portugal

00:33:26.600 that interaction for me was a an instantiation of

00:33:33.860 divinity right because again it depends what you know

00:33:37.260 how you conceptualize what what the divine is right

00:33:40.440 the fact that there could be such a magical moment

00:33:44.040 that was unexpected that's divine right and so and

00:33:47.940 and I I talk about this very briefly in the book when

00:33:50.660 I'm discussing various correlates to happiness in one

00:33:54.740 of the early chapters and at one point I talk about the

00:33:57.540 the link between religiosity and happiness and I then

00:34:00.640 explain that the research shows that there is a moderate

00:34:04.480 correlation between being religious and happy but

00:34:08.860 then I didn't want people who were not religious to walk

00:34:12.100 away saying well there's a strike against me I'm not

00:34:14.860 religious because if you define that sense of grandeur as

00:34:19.480 something more than simply couched within a religious

00:34:22.800 narrative then you can find these divine moments and all

00:34:26.320 sorts of things when I look at I mean they've passed away

00:34:29.020 now we're thinking of getting the next generation of Belgian

00:34:31.840 shepherds but when I would interact with my Belgian

00:34:34.780 shepherds I don't think that God or the cosmos can create in

00:34:39.560 my view a more perfect creature right they're loyal they're

00:34:43.700 protective they're playful they're I mean they they exude every

00:34:47.800 they or they exhibit every one of the noble qualities that most

00:34:51.660 of us could never hope to acquire and so so I can find divinity

00:34:55.740 in all sorts of things without necessarily couching it within a

00:34:59.320 supernatural framework.

00:35:00.300 Have you seen those most recent pictures from the James Webb

00:35:02.980 telescope where it shows all of the different galaxies?

00:35:07.620 I mean just a few snippets of them on Twitter but not

00:35:10.680 systematically but I go ahead.

00:35:12.860 Oh my gosh I was looking at this picture and again my husband

00:35:17.220 shows me or like like presents all this stuff to me as I'm about

00:35:20.600 to go to bed and then I just can't sleep and he thinks it's

00:35:23.220 hysterical but he shows me this picture and just all of these

00:35:26.540 different galaxies like so many that it looks like the night sky like

00:35:30.060 what you would look and see all of these stars like they're just

00:35:32.420 galaxies so you see that and you're like how do you look at that

00:35:37.240 and know that you are one in infinite infinity when it comes to

00:35:41.120 that and you think you know anything or you feel like you've got

00:35:44.060 it figured out or you think you are as big as it gets how do you

00:35:47.560 possibly think that and like so to people that don't have any

00:35:51.660 spiritual inkling I'm like I feel like we're just wired for that like

00:35:54.940 we're wired to know that there's something bigger and whatever that however

00:35:59.280 you transmute that or translate that into you know whatever that looks like

00:36:03.000 for you is another thing but just like this inner knowing that there is

00:36:06.340 something bigger right and I think that purpose that ties into purpose.

00:36:10.440 Absolutely and I can even take that example that you said and rather than

00:36:15.760 explore at the cosmological level which for most brains is difficult to

00:36:19.040 comprehend just let's bring it down to the study that I'm in right now as

00:36:23.480 you're taping you can't see it in the shot but I have this huge collection

00:36:28.140 within my personal library of books that I've yet to read and it's that that

00:36:33.260 allows me to be quite epistemologically humble even though I may know quite a

00:36:38.120 lot as the fact that I'm a professor who spent my whole life in navigating ideas

00:36:42.820 the fact that I'm knowledgeable allows me to know how little that I know because there's

00:36:50.760 so much so to use your cosmological analogy there is a whole constellation of knowledge

00:36:56.540 I know one millionth of what I could potentially know and that not only inspires me

00:37:03.600 oftentimes when I'm about to leave on vacation I argue that one of the most difficult decisions

00:37:08.340 I have to make is deciding which book or two books to bring on vacation and usually my wife

00:37:14.940 will tell me start that decision process early because I go through this whole choice paralysis

00:37:20.300 where I'm just standing like a zombie in front of all the books that I've yet to read and I can't

00:37:25.000 make my my mind up and oh by the way I'm supposed to be an expert in the psychology of decision making

00:37:30.920 and I'm completely under choice paralysis so so yes it's always nice and humbling to to realize that

00:37:37.960 you're a very very small speck in this greater Europe so is that kind of what you mean by like

00:37:44.000 your pushback on the spice of life is variety is like too much can be overwhelming I mean certainly

00:37:51.420 that it there what I'm arguing actually is that depending on the domain the pursuit of variety

00:37:58.180 might be a good thing or a bad thing so in a sense a lot of the stuff in my book can be frustrating

00:38:04.140 to people all but though I'm honest in other words many quote self-help books are read my book and I

00:38:11.820 guarantee you a Ferrari and your wife having 20,000 orgasms every time you look at her those are false

00:38:18.940 promissory stuff well I'm a lot more honest and humble in what I'm saying which is if you read my

00:38:25.060 book I could simply offer you some statistical likelihood that you're more likely to be happy so

00:38:31.460 to the point about variety there is no rule that says across every possible domain in every setting

00:38:38.160 more variety is better to our earlier point about sexual variety seeking if you're in a committed

00:38:44.240 monogamous union notwithstanding your desire to engage in multiple meetings you may want to

00:38:50.820 you know reel that in but for example intellectual variety seeking since that's probably the thing that's

00:38:57.800 closest to my professional heart I argue that it's a very very poor way to live life by always being a stay

00:39:06.820 in your lane person so let's take an academia in academia the reward systems are set up for you to be a

00:39:16.580 hyper specialist because you know there are only seven other people that know about anything that you're

00:39:22.600 talking about and so by becoming a greater hyper specialist that's where you can make a contribution and of course

00:39:28.540 there is some value to that if you're going to contribute to a particular scientific literature you have to be an

00:39:33.580 expert in it but the biggest breakthroughs in science come usually at the intersections of disciplines so the mapping of the

00:39:43.120 human genome required people in many distinct disciplines to put their collective IQ together to be able to crack some of the

00:39:51.980 in this case the code of our existence right and so I argue that life is too short to only navigate through the same

00:39:59.700 intellectual journey on every day and yet most of my academic colleagues are completely stay in your lane professors and now they're

00:40:09.120 staying your lane professors in many ways they only publish on a single topic so I am uh you know a emotions

00:40:17.600 researcher so I only do that I only publish in these four psychology journals I only write peer review journals

00:40:26.240 because that's what's rewarded in academia now look at my career it's been the exact opposite I have published

00:40:33.940 countless academic papers and top journals but I also wrote books when it was frowned upon to write books

00:40:41.340 you should only publish peer reviewed papers I also I wrote academic books and trade books meaning for the general

00:40:48.040 public well that was viewed as a selling out I started a show and a podcast when very few people in general

00:40:56.300 had shows let alone professors that was viewed as not serious right uh I go on Joe Rogan from a very

00:41:03.760 long time ago as I discussed in my previous book when I was invited to Stanford in 2017 my host

00:41:10.420 looked at my connection with Joe Rogan with great derision you know we don't do that at Stanford

00:41:15.680 right so uh to me I have been enriched in an incalculable number of ways by having pursued variety

00:41:27.160 seeking within my profession within my intellectual pursuits and it's a real shame to always go to the

00:41:33.580 same you know one trick pony life is too short for that that's so interesting now because I feel I

00:41:39.760 don't know maybe it's different you can tell me from your experience but do you feel like it's more

00:41:43.600 widely accepted now to be able to be a whole person and express yourself fully like be an author go on

00:41:49.580 podcasts as an academic you're saying yeah yeah so you know as you probably know when you talk about

00:41:56.600 diffusion of innovations there are the uh the innovators then the early adopters then the late

00:42:02.940 adopters then the laggard right who's the last person to get a sell an iphone who's the last person to

00:42:09.460 have purchased the uh you know a microwave right well regrettably academia are very much at the laggard

00:42:18.960 end of things in that it takes them a long time to accept radical new ways of being right and and and so

00:42:26.940 to your question I used to get a lot of the derision from oh you know you're a sellout by speaking to the

00:42:33.560 great unwashed to the rubes right uh why aren't you only talking to fancy professors at harvard well now

00:42:40.420 the same schools that used to look at my stuff with derision when I go visit them and give a talk and say

00:42:45.700 tell me how how did you become so popular now they see it as a as a positive thing whereas 10 years ago

00:42:52.960 it was viewed as a sellout so I think to your point you know they are changing but it's a very very slow

00:43:00.760 change and it requires someone who has a I don't give an F attitude to serve as the agent of innovation

00:43:08.120 right I didn't care whether they appreciated it or respected it or not I just had to be authentic

00:43:15.120 and so going on the Joe Rogan show and speaking for three hours and having 20 million people listen

00:43:21.660 to my ideas seemed like a really good idea because I have the business of creating knowledge and

00:43:28.820 spreading knowledge what better way to spread knowledge than on the number one show in the world

00:43:33.220 are you really going to pull the elitist card on me and say I should only publish in a journal that's

00:43:39.640 if I'm lucky I don't know if you know this guys but you know the average academic paper will be

00:43:45.720 cited zero times zero right now if your paper is cited a hundred times in 10 years from now that's

00:43:54.820 considered a highly successful impactful academic paper well how long I'm sure that within the first

00:44:01.660 minute of our chat here we're going to get a lot more than a hundred people listening to it and again

00:44:05.940 I'm not comparing it I know it's they're different things publishing in a peer-reviewed journal is

00:44:10.200 different than going on a popular podcast show but there is room for all of these things it's not an

00:44:15.600 exclusive either or I could be a serious academic and appear on all sorts of popular shows so how do

00:44:22.400 you see education changing especially with everything becoming more democratized and open source and

00:44:28.840 I feel like a lot of people are doing either continuing continued education or like a lot of what they're

00:44:35.060 learning or experiencing novelty is through books or podcasts or YouTube shows things like that

00:44:40.660 sub stack like a lot of people aren't spending crazy amounts of money to go to school anymore

00:44:45.160 look I don't think look I wrote parasitic mind to describe how universities served as the you know

00:44:54.140 spawners of all of these dreadful ideas so I have a lot of critical positions regarding the university

00:45:00.960 ecosystem but I'm also I think wise enough to know that you know universities are not going to go away

00:45:07.720 there are many forms of research that require the infrastructure of a university to be able to pull

00:45:13.900 it off so I don't think universities are going to go away but to your point I think now we do have a

00:45:20.480 democratization of knowledge right I could go on YouTube if I want to find out who is the

00:45:26.400 world leader when it comes to epictetus I could sit down and consume 10 hours from their lecture

00:45:33.440 well certainly when I was a student and probably when you were a student that didn't seem like it

00:45:39.300 would be possible so I could now put together a survey a buffet of leading thinkers in any field

00:45:47.460 that I might be interested in from the most esoteric to the most popular and I will have access to that

00:45:53.020 so I say look it's again it's not an either or I think universities are here to stay although I do

00:45:59.660 think that they truly have been taken over by these dreadful ideas hopefully we can fix them and boy

00:46:07.140 it's great to live in a world where I can go and listen to great thinkers and whereas 20 years ago I

00:46:14.540 would have had to pay a lot of money to be able to go to a lecture but both are viable ways of learning

00:46:18.820 I wanted because I know you are a very busy man I definitely wanted to get into regret because that

00:46:24.680 was sent over and I also think it's such an interesting topic because it leaves people very

00:46:30.200 charged well do you personally have any regrets do you feel like everyone has something that they

00:46:35.440 regret and then how do you go about moving past it right thank you for that great question so I have

00:46:41.000 a whole chapter on regret and the way that I started the chapter is by citing you know as sort of the

00:46:48.520 organizing framework the work of one of my former psychology professors in my PhD what his name is

00:46:55.600 Thomas Gilovich and he pioneered the psychology of regret by looking at the two fundamental sources of

00:47:03.340 regret regret due to action and regret due to inaction so regret due to action would be I regret that I

00:47:11.380 cheated on my wife and that brought the end of our family and our marriage regret due to inaction I regret

00:47:17.820 that I never pursued my artistic interest and I became a pediatrician well it turns out Candace that

00:47:24.340 over the long run uh the greatest looming regret that people have are typically those of inaction

00:47:31.500 right and so uh you know I wish I would have done this so the load the road that was not traveled right

00:47:39.080 now if I'm 85 and I'm looking back and I said I I wish that I had you know become a NBA player well

00:47:49.740 there's nothing that I can do to fix that regret because I'm too old and too short to have ever been

00:47:56.000 an NBA player but the what I but as a as an optimistic bent on this you know difficult issue there are many

00:48:03.800 forms of regret that even late in life we can do something about and I give several such examples

00:48:11.840 which I'll share with you now and then I'll give I'll ask you a question about my own personal regrets

00:48:15.880 uh so I give two examples in the book of regrets that were alleviated very very late in life by by two

00:48:24.800 separate individuals so story one this gentleman uh who graduated with a phd at my university where

00:48:32.040 I'm currently a professor so this was in uh the mid 90s whether he finished his phd but he was a

00:48:38.680 someone he was a an individual who left Germany prior to the start of world war ii as a young person

00:48:46.940 moved to Canada and just life circumstances did not allow him to pursue his education he'd always

00:48:55.220 wanted to go to university and so on fast forward several decades he's now retired he's in his 60s

00:49:03.040 and he says look I'm young enough at this point still young enough I still have vigor why don't I now go

00:49:08.860 back and get my undergraduate he's in his 60s right the average student is 20 and so he goes

00:49:16.260 uh to to my university gets an undergraduate degree finishes I don't remember the exact age but in his

00:49:22.800 70s he says well hey look I'm still I still got vigor I'm I'm still you know uh ready to go

00:49:29.920 pursues and a master's completes his master's now he's in his 80s and then I remember I think it was in

00:49:37.340 1996 in the university newspaper the the the cover on the cover of the newspaper was uh finally a

00:49:45.960 doctor at 91 I suppose and at the time I think he was maybe the oldest uh recipient of a phd in

00:49:53.120 Canada or something to that effect within a year he passes away now talk about purity that person did

00:50:00.060 not pursue his phd because he was going to go on the academic job market he did it for the most

00:50:08.100 of pure reasons which is just the sheer love of knowledge right sophia love of knowledge so that's

00:50:15.120 story one story two I actually had this gentleman on my show last year memphred steiner uh he got his

00:50:25.260 md medical degree in 1955 I think uh he had gone into medicine because his parents had said no you have

00:50:35.240 to do something practical something respectable he wanted his love was physics but physics well that's

00:50:42.080 not that's not a practical thing and so he became a physician then he specialized in hematology

00:50:49.060 uh picked up along the way in 1967 a phd in biochemistry had a full career as a medical

00:50:59.180 specialist and then in his 80s decided that he wanted to instantiate the pursuit of his original

00:51:08.060 love in physics started getting a degree in physics finished with a phd in physics at brown university

00:51:15.520 at the age of 89 so now imagine these two stories I just told you Candace when a student comes into my

00:51:23.680 office during office hours and they're 28 years old and they tell me well I feel though I'm too old

00:51:30.780 professor to do my mba and then I say sit down I'm going to tell you a story and then you can see the

00:51:37.400 power of that story because I say so do you still think you're too old and so I think that for many

00:51:42.840 regrets unfortunately time has passed us by the opportunity has passed us but so many regrets we can

00:51:48.700 still do something about them now as far as my personal regrets I really have a singular one that

00:51:54.680 haunts me it's the so I was always talented in two things in life I was a very good soccer player and I

00:52:04.040 was very studious guy I loved books I loved learning which is very strange makes and that usually you're

00:52:10.900 brawny or you're brainy I happen to have been fortunate enough to have both and so I always thought that I

00:52:16.560 would be a professional soccer player and then I would go on and you know develop you know become

00:52:20.980 an academic and at the age of 17 I had a very serious injury and Canadian championships that put

00:52:28.400 an end to my soccer career but I think that even if that injury had not happened I did not grow up in

00:52:35.600 an environment that would have been conducive to to increasing my chances of becoming a soccer player

00:52:40.740 number one because my family did not support that at all you have a brain why would you waste time

00:52:45.980 picking a ball like I grew up in Canada where you know in the early 80s it wasn't very very common

00:52:53.760 for Canadians to be scouted the top European teams although I was on the path to having that happen

00:52:59.920 and so whenever a the World Cup comes around and I see that the majesty of that tournament I'm always

00:53:08.240 filled a lot of regret at the fact that I wasn't able to instantiate my soccer career so that's probably

00:53:13.340 the only regret I have now to her credit Megan Kelly I shared that regret with her once on her show

00:53:19.600 and I actually mentioned this in the book and she's like kind of snap out of it you shouldn't regret that

00:53:24.860 you've had a lot more influence in your life by having become an academic you've you've made a

00:53:29.940 difference so enough don't regret that so that's it yeah it sounds like no matter what you were destined

00:53:35.680 to have an audience I guess so right yeah yeah I guess I'm a performer whether it be on the soccer

00:53:44.040 pitch or as an orator and and you're right that maybe that's what has allowed me to to have an

00:53:50.920 audience which is that I think I'm approachable I I delivered a message in a way that hopefully

00:53:56.900 people appreciate and so you're right I am a performer oh my gosh this was amazing um I could talk to you

00:54:03.860 forever so I would definitely love to have you back on whenever you start to slow down with this

00:54:08.400 um with this launch but before we head out can you tell the listeners where they can pick up your book

00:54:13.580 um projects you're working on I know you have some live appearances that you're doing like shamelessly

00:54:18.300 plug away oh you're very kind and I too can talk to you forever so thank you for giving me an

00:54:24.360 opportunity uh the book will be out in exactly one week uh next Tuesday you can certainly pre-order it

00:54:30.980 now on Amazon it'll be available though as of July 25th uh I do have several upcoming uh events in

00:54:39.240 terms of live events uh the next sort of super big one is uh the Commonwealth Club which is this very

00:54:47.100 she-she platform in San Francisco so assuming that I don't get gang raped by homeless people on crystal

00:54:55.180 meth it'll happen on August 8th sorry noble homeless people because homeless people are

00:55:03.640 noble by the very nature of them being homeless and if you think otherwise then you're marginalizing

00:55:08.440 homelessness uh so that will be August 8th uh in San Francisco I'm also appearing at another venue uh

00:55:17.100 in early September in New Jersey a whole bunch of other smaller things but in terms of shows

00:55:22.720 the whole slew starting with Candice uh Megan Kelly's upcoming Greg Gutfeld Joe Rogan is next

00:55:31.580 the day of the launch I'll be on Joe Rogan so many exciting things I'm all over social media you can

00:55:38.460 catch me there I've got a website gatsad.com so connect with me in any way that you can and thank you

00:55:44.120 so much for the opportunity oh my gosh of course and my father-in-law is gonna be so excited to see you

00:55:48.660 on Gutfeld that's his favorite show of all time so yeah I'll tell him I'll tell him to keep an eye

00:55:54.220 out for you again thank you so much thank you cheers and that's it for this week's episode of

00:56:00.320 chatting with Candice before we go if you want to support our guest or the show we have everything

00:56:05.040 linked below where you can buy the book or you can support the show if you have not left a five-star

00:56:11.020 review and or it has been a while please do so that helps us with the algorithm we want to stay in

00:56:15.780 the chart people it's been amazing there I don't want to go back I want to stay here at the top or

00:56:21.600 the middle or whenever I am in the top 100 so please do that um I couldn't do it without you and if you

00:56:27.120 like if you know anyone I would like this episode you enjoyed the content please share it that is the

00:56:32.720 best way to grow a podcast is word of mouth and I again thank you from the bottom of my heart and I'll

00:56:37.940 see you next week bye everybody

The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - October 03, 2023

How to be Happy - Chatting with Candice (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_589)

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