The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - ‘Kamala Harris Is A Lobotomized Fool’ ｜ Gad Saad On Trump, Freedom, Censorship (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_837)

00:00:00.000 Welcome to a special interview on Counterpoints with me, Melinda Nusifora.

00:00:27.360 Dr Gad Saad is a professor of marketing at Concordia University and a trailblazer in applying evolutionary psychology to consumer behaviour.

00:00:38.620 He's the best-selling author of the book The Parasitic Mind, a fearless critique of ideological extremism and also the host of the popular YouTube series The Sad Truth.

00:00:49.300 Loved by his fans for his wish and championing of reason and science, and perhaps equally loathed by his critics who disagree with his takes on society and politics, Dr Saad is a fierce advocate for free speech and intellectual freedom.

00:01:08.440 Dr Saad, thank you for making time and joining us here on Counterpoints.

00:01:12.500 Well, I'm delighted to be with you. Thank you for having me.

00:01:16.600 You published The Parasitic Mind back in 2020, but it's still being talked about and critiqued across multiple platforms as if it's a new release.

00:01:28.020 Why do you think it continues to resonate with readers?

00:01:31.260 I think it's because many of the parasitic ideas that I discuss in the book, and I'd be happy to expand on why I use the term parasitic, still hold true today.

00:01:43.820 Many people thought that with the victory of Donald Trump, many of these ideological parasitic ideas would somehow cease to exist.

00:01:52.580 But it took between 50 to 100 years for these ideas to proliferate, first in academia and then in every nook and cranny of society.

00:02:01.080 So it's going to take a lot more than just Donald Trump coming for a second term for all of this nonsense to disappear.

00:02:07.980 So I think that's why it's still so relevant.

00:02:10.380 So do you think that you could be in for another 50 to 100 years of people expanding on your psychology then for you to or for society to maybe come back to what you would consider a sense of normalcy?

00:02:25.520 I mean, I'd like to think, fingers crossed, I'd hope to think that it won't take as long to eradicate those ideas.

00:02:34.780 And maybe it might be worthwhile for your viewers and listeners to get a sense of what I mean by parasitic ideas.

00:02:40.980 So, for example, postmodernism, which is a philosophical framework that was developed in academia, say, about 50 years ago, purports that there are no objective truths.

00:02:52.400 Everything is shackled by subjectivity.

00:02:54.620 Everything is shackled by idiosyncrasies, by personal biases.

00:02:58.660 Well, if there are no objective truths, that's how you can get up is down, left is right, war is peace, slavery is freedom, men are women, women are men.

00:03:07.640 Because there are no objective metrics by which we can judge reality.

00:03:11.440 Cultural relativism is another idea pathogen, which basically says, who are you to judge the conduct of people in other cultures?

00:03:19.560 You don't have the right to do that.

00:03:21.080 Social constructivism is another idea pathogen.

00:03:23.640 It basically says that we are born with empty minds, we don't have biological imperatives, and it's only socialization that makes us who we are.

00:03:32.600 So this cocktail of departure from reason has led us down the abyss of infinite lunacy.

00:03:38.300 So hopefully it won't take 50 to 100 years to redress the ship.

00:03:42.420 But as I said, it'll take a lot more than an anti-woke president to set things straight.

00:03:48.580 So one of the first parasitic thoughts you mentioned there is around truth.

00:03:54.900 And the quest for truth is something that you talk about a lot.

00:03:58.220 You call yourself a truth defender.

00:04:00.440 Is truth ever subjective?

00:04:02.840 Are there instances when you accept that your version of the truth could differ from my version of the truth?

00:04:10.600 Yeah, that's a great question.

00:04:12.000 So it depends what kinds of, epistemologically speaking, which types of truths we're talking about.

00:04:17.420 It may be true that I prefer Japanese food and you prefer Mexican food.

00:04:24.460 Now, that is based on a sensorial aesthetic preference.

00:04:27.980 So that truth can be subjective.

00:04:30.320 But is it true that on average men are taller than women and heavier than women?

00:04:38.620 That is an absolute incontrovertible biological truth, even though your Aunt Jenny is taller than your Uncle Roscoe.

00:04:45.760 It is a truth, right?

00:04:47.420 Two plus two is equal to four.

00:04:50.160 You know, my background is in mathematics.

00:04:52.100 There are axiomatic truths that are inviolable.

00:04:55.340 So, no, we're not always shackled by subjectivity.

00:04:58.800 By the way, you couldn't get up as a scientist in the morning to do your work if you didn't think that there were objective truths to be discovered in the natural world.

00:05:08.760 Now, truth can change in science, right?

00:05:11.640 What was true 300 years ago, we've revised it.

00:05:15.180 So, there are provisional truths.

00:05:17.680 But epistemologically speaking, there has to be truth.

00:05:20.960 Otherwise, all scientists are wasting their time.

00:05:24.500 Where do you think this idea of fake news plays into the idea of truth then?

00:05:30.840 It's almost as if now we have politicians and if they don't like the way that perhaps something's being phrased or something's put to them,

00:05:38.280 they just call it fake news.

00:05:39.640 Are they distorting truth?

00:05:44.060 Right.

00:05:44.660 Well, there are all sorts of ways by which people who are in power seek to eradicate those pesky other folks who might be attacking their foundational ideas, right? 0.91

00:05:56.820 And so, in the worst-case scenarios, we kill people who don't think like us. 0.99

00:06:02.220 In the West, luckily, we're not quite there yet. 0.56

00:06:05.060 So, we come up with other mechanisms.

00:06:06.940 If you say something that I don't like, it's hate speech.

00:06:09.660 If you say something that I don't like, it's misinformation.

00:06:12.280 It's disinformation.

00:06:13.820 It's fake news.

00:06:14.840 And so, I've challenged people.

00:06:16.160 So, for example, when someone comes out with some idea about settled science, I will repost or retort by saying, which is the true statement?

00:06:26.860 Can men menstruate or can men not menstruate?

00:06:30.520 And usually, they run away.

00:06:31.800 And so, the idea that there are absolute settled science truths is a very dangerous idea.

00:06:38.820 What's beautiful about science is that it is always autocorrective.

00:06:42.560 We're always seeking to better approach truth.

00:06:45.540 So, anybody who tells you that they have a complete hold on what is true or not is probably a fan of Orwellian reality.

00:06:53.980 When you talk about hard truths, maybe, in society, what do you think are some of the hardest truths that society is having trouble swallowing these days?

00:07:05.740 So, that's a great question.

00:07:07.840 My original idea of writing The Parasitic Mind came to me nearly 30-plus years ago when I first finished my PhD and I was trying to incorporate biology into an understanding of human nature.

00:07:25.700 I was shocked to see that so many of my social scientist colleagues thought that I was insane.

00:07:31.640 How dare you argue, Professor Saad, that human beings are shaped by biological forces?

00:07:37.680 Apparently, biological forces apply to every species on Earth except one species called human beings.

00:07:44.740 That's insane, right?

00:07:46.020 I mean, somehow, when you are a consumer, you are no longer purview to your biological imperatives.

00:07:52.560 And so, this is probably, at least in my academic career, has been the most difficult thing for my academic colleagues to swallow, namely that we are not just a cultural animal, we're also a biological animal.

00:08:08.000 Do you believe in nature versus nurture?

00:08:11.560 Is it one or the other or is it a mix of the both?

00:08:16.660 It's exactly what you just said.

00:08:18.300 And let me, I mean, what you just said when you said it's a mix of both.

00:08:22.560 Actually, that's called the interactionist framework.

00:08:25.520 If you start and you want to bake a cake, before you bake the cake, each of the ingredients are separated.

00:08:33.160 There's the butter, there's the sugar, there's the flour, and so on.

00:08:37.180 Once I bake the cake, if I were to tell you, please point me to where the eggs are or where the sugar is, you wouldn't be able to because now it's been baked into this inextricable mix called the cake.

00:08:50.980 So, for most human phenomena, we are an inextricable mix of our biology and our environment.

00:08:58.720 It is both nature and nurture.

00:09:00.860 But I should just add one more point.

00:09:04.080 Nurture exists in its form because of nature.

00:09:08.460 So, yes, it is true that men and women are socialized into their roles, but they are socialized into those roles precisely because of biological imperatives.

00:09:19.140 So, it doesn't exist outside of biology.

00:09:21.700 We are taught what we are taught because of biology.

00:09:24.360 Staying with biological imperatives, as you call them, why do you think that the subject of gender has generated such an impassioned response from people on either side of the argument?

00:09:42.660 Why is it that one issue that seems to be the topic that people can't get past or continue to go back to?

00:09:51.740 There are several answers to that, but I'll start with one manifestation of what you're asking.

00:09:57.380 So, take, for example, equity feminism. 0.96

00:10:00.040 Equity feminism is a great idea. 1.00

00:10:01.980 It basically says that there should be no institutional reasons under the law why men and women should be treated differently.

00:10:09.440 They should be equal under the law.

00:10:10.860 Based on that definition of feminism, most of us would say, yeah, sign me up. 1.00

00:10:14.700 I'm an equity feminist. 1.00

00:10:15.600 Then radical feminists come along and say, well, in the service of squashing any sexism in society, let us now promulgate the idea that men and women are indistinguishable creatures.

00:10:29.560 There is nothing that men could do in a superior way to women or vice versa. 0.98

00:10:35.240 All sex differences must be due to social construction.

00:10:40.280 And therefore, by promulgating this idea, hopefully it will allow us to battle sexism in society.

00:10:46.420 Well, I always remind people that in the service of a noble goal, we don't murder and rape truth.

00:10:52.620 So, I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

00:10:55.700 I can be all for equality of the sexes while also recognizing that men and women do have evolved sex differences.

00:11:03.900 Why does it matter to you or to me how someone else identifies?

00:11:12.700 Isn't that an issue for them and not an issue for us?

00:11:16.740 Yes, great.

00:11:17.440 So, I'm assuming you mean, for example, transgender issues.

00:11:21.160 Indeed.

00:11:21.240 So, I went up in front of the Canadian Senate to give some expert testimony in 2017.

00:11:29.960 At the time, Canada was debating a bill called Bill C-16 that sought to incorporate gender identity and gender expression under the rubric of hate speech laws.

00:11:40.140 And I said, look, to your point, I believe that anybody should live free of bigotry and have a dignified life.

00:11:48.480 And so, sign me up for that laudable goal.

00:11:51.480 But again, in the service of that noble goal, we don't get to murder and rape truth.

00:11:58.500 So, identify however way you want.

00:12:02.040 That doesn't mean that I need to put gender pronouns next to my bio.

00:12:09.220 Because until 15 minutes ago, the 117 billion people who had existed on Earth seem to have been able to very easily navigate through the conundrum of identifying who is male or female.

00:12:21.960 But it's only 15 minutes ago that a bearded guy who's 6 foot 4, 280 pounds has to put he, him next to his because he doesn't want to marginalise some transgender person.

00:12:32.480 So, I can be both very socially progressive whilst ensuring that I don't murder and rape truth.

00:12:39.280 So, an offshoot of the quest for truth is your assertion of the importance of being able to admit you're wrong.

00:12:47.860 Do you think world leaders, as equally as your average person on the street today, has a problem with admitting when they're wrong?

00:12:59.760 And if so, why?

00:13:01.000 Why is it so hard for us?

00:13:03.900 I'm smiling because it reminds me of a question that I was asked by a British psychiatrist.

00:13:10.880 I had appeared on his show maybe a year ago.

00:13:13.520 And he was the first host to ever ask me the following question.

00:13:17.120 He said to me, I'm paraphrasing, I don't have his exact words.

00:13:20.340 He said to me, what is the singular, you know, most surprising phenomenon that you have witnessed in your study of human nature and human behaviour in the 30 plus years that you've been a professor?

00:13:32.340 And so, I paused for a minute and then to your question, Melinda, I said, probably the inability of people to change their opinions once it is anchored, irrespective of how much information I might throw at them.

00:14:17.120 I argued that our ability to reason did not evolve to seek some objective truth, but rather it evolved to win arguments.

00:14:26.340 So, as I provide you with evidence, hopefully to change your opinion, your reflex is to go, la, la, la, I don't want to hear it because I don't want to lose the argument.

00:14:36.340 So, I think it's a very, very challenging and difficult task, never mind to change the mind of world leaders, to change the mind of my local, you know, barber.

00:14:46.960 So, that's the challenge that I face every day in the public arena.

00:14:51.180 What about challenging yourself in the regard of when's the last time you have admitted you're wrong or maybe changed your opinion?

00:15:01.120 Do you equally find it as difficult as someone who's studied this for their career?

00:15:06.760 I mean, it's tough to answer this question because it's going to seem as though I'm engaging in ego defensiveness myself.

00:15:13.160 I'd like to think that if I am an objective truth defender, that if incoming information comes in that invalidates my positions, I will be more than happy to readily admit that it's time to autocorrect.

00:15:27.540 But, by the way, I do that every time that I test a hypothesis in my scientific work.

00:15:34.960 I've had many papers that I've published where the final findings turned out to be contradictory to what I had hypothesized at the start.

00:15:45.700 So, if I am an honest academic and an honest scientist, it has to be baked into my epistemology that I'm open to change.

00:15:53.940 Well, if and when that ever happens, I hope you come back on to CounterPoints and tell us all about it.

00:16:01.300 Do you think the denial of truth, this ability to admit that maybe our opinions are flawed, has played a role in the polarizing nature of party politics that we're seeing these days?

00:16:16.360 Republicans versus Democrats.

00:16:18.620 The Remain versus the Brexit years.

00:16:21.180 It's almost become a team sport.

00:16:23.800 Can we no longer admit that the other side has something that we could benefit from?

00:16:31.680 Yes.

00:16:32.540 Regrettably, yes.

00:16:33.560 And I would even add a more pessimistic bent to what you just asked.

00:16:37.860 Oftentimes, when you demonstrate to someone that their position is incorrect and you present them with evidence to the contrary, that only solidifies their position.

00:16:50.620 So, I mean, imagine how disheartening that is, right?

00:16:55.660 You'd like to think that if you take position A and I show you that it actually should be not A, that if you're an honest interlocutor, you'd say, okay, fair enough.

00:17:05.660 Maybe I need to change my opinion.

00:17:06.680 No.

00:17:07.400 You will even be more emboldened in your position.

00:17:09.940 I mean, one of the things that is both exciting about the work that I do but also so disheartening is that when I engage people on social media oftentimes, I quickly realize that irrespective of how much information I share, I could never move them an inch, which is exactly the reason, Melinda, why I often refuse to debate certain folks.

00:17:32.320 It's not because I'm too afraid to debate them, but I know it's a futile exercise.

00:17:36.940 We're just going to talk past each other and no one is going to move one millimeter.

00:17:41.920 So what's the point of engaging you?

00:17:44.140 All right.

00:17:44.920 Well, looking ahead to your next book then coming out, it's called Suicidal Empathy.

00:17:49.740 I'm not sure if that's the full title or an abridged version.

00:17:53.460 Can you explain what you mean by that?

00:17:55.920 Thank you for that question.

00:17:58.580 So in the parasitic mind, I argued that our cognitive system could be parasitized, could be zombified.

00:18:06.900 Our cognitive system is just a fancy way of saying our ability to think.

00:18:11.460 But we are both a thinking and feeling animal.

00:18:14.560 And therefore, suicidal empathy completes the story and says, here is what happens when our emotional system is hijacked.

00:18:22.800 And I use empathy as the key value here, because while empathy is a beautiful value to hold, right?

00:18:32.860 We are a social species.

00:18:34.580 It makes perfect sense that we be empathetic to the people that we are interacting with.

00:18:41.200 Aristotle explained to us more than 2,000 years ago that all good things in the right amount, at the right place, in the right measure.

00:18:48.800 So empathy is good, but when it targets the right people at the right measure and so on.

00:18:55.440 Suicidal empathy is where you become so orgiastic in your metting out of empathy that it no longer serves a valuable objective.

00:19:05.380 And so let me, if I may, draw an analogy.

00:19:08.560 When I scan the environment for environmental threats, that makes perfect evolutionary sense.

00:19:15.460 So, for example, if you and I, if I have the pleasure of meeting you, Melinda, in person, and I notice that you just sneezed into your hand, and then you put out your hand to shake my hand, I realize, oh boy, I better go and wash my hands after I finish shaking the hand of the lovely Melinda because she may have a cold.

00:19:32.120 That makes evolutionary sense.

00:19:34.380 If I then spend eight hours in the bathroom because I have germ contamination, what started off as an adaptive reflex becomes maladaptive, and it's called obsessive-compulsive disorder, right?

00:19:48.120 So when an adaptive process misfires, it becomes dysfunctional.

00:19:53.360 That's my argument in suicidal empathy.

00:19:56.360 Empathy is great when it is properly regulated.

00:20:00.220 It becomes really problematic when it becomes dysregulated.

00:20:04.460 And I know that you've admitted in interviews in the past that you're a bit of a germphobe, so I won't take offense that you spend eight hours washing your hands after I sneeze.

00:20:14.680 Can you give me an example in modern society of where you think you see suicidal empathy?

00:20:21.000 Right, so we can break it up either in domestic policy or foreign policy.

00:20:27.860 Let me give you one or two, say, from domestic policy.

00:20:30.480 To argue that all illegal immigrants have a right to experience the United States' liberties is a form of suicidal empathy.

00:20:45.800 To say that MS-13 gang members should be more worthy of our empathy than American vets who might have lost limbs defending the liberties of the United States is probably suicidal empathy.

00:20:58.160 To argue, for example, that all immigrants are equal in their proclivity to be able to assimilate into a host nation is suicidal empathy.

00:21:08.640 That's simply bafflingly untrue, right?

00:21:13.480 There are some cultures that are more aligned with the values of the host society than others.

00:21:19.360 And to recognize that doesn't make you bigoted.

00:21:22.300 It makes you someone that has a functioning brain.

00:21:24.640 And so, again, the reflex to be endlessly orgiastically empathetic, while it might make me feel good in the moment, it has some really dangerous downstream effects.

00:21:37.000 Let's move on to truth and freedom of speech.

00:21:41.660 You're a free speech absolutist, I think, if I'm interpreting that correctly.

00:21:46.680 Are you concerned about threats to free speech either from censorship or self-censorship?

00:21:54.860 Do you think there should be any limits to free speech?

00:21:58.540 And is self-censorship becoming more of an issue than perhaps an overarching censorship by the government?

00:22:05.680 Right.

00:22:06.040 So let me start first by what I mean by an absolutist stance on freedom of speech.

00:22:11.620 I'm Jewish.

00:22:12.820 I grew up in the Middle East.

00:22:14.300 I've had some very difficult realities in my childhood because we had to escape Lebanon.

00:22:21.140 So I'm very much wedded to my Jewish identity.

00:22:24.340 Yet I support the right of Holocaust deniers to spew their nonsense.

00:22:29.640 There's almost nothing that could be as insulting and offensive as to deny the Holocaust. 1.00

00:22:34.240 But if you wish to live in a free society, you have to be able to bear the imbeciles, the racists, the bigots. 0.95

00:22:40.360 Where I draw the line as to what constitutes freedom of speech is already what's enshrined in the First Amendment, which is there can't be a direct incitement to violence. 1.00

00:22:50.060 So I can perfectly say Judaism is one crock of nonsense. 1.00

00:22:56.260 It's all garbage. 1.00

00:22:57.700 And I would say I support your right to say that. 1.00

00:22:59.940 On the other hand, if you say, let's go on the corner of Broadway and 7th Street, and when the Jews are coming out of the synagogue, let's beat them up and kill them, then that becomes direct incitement to violence. 0.98

00:23:11.620 And you're not allowed to do that. 0.97

00:23:12.740 But you can criticize any ideology, any belief systems.

00:23:17.460 You can be scornful.

00:23:18.580 You could mock it.

00:23:19.520 You could satirize it.

00:23:20.860 That's the price you pay to be in a free society.

00:23:23.340 Regarding your other point about self-censorship, I exactly agree with you.

00:23:27.380 The greatest threat to freedom of speech in the West doesn't come from the government.

00:23:32.500 It comes from creating a zeitgeist that causes people to self-regulate, right?

00:23:38.600 So when the student says, you know, I don't feel comfortable saying that I like Donald Trump in a classroom because maybe my professor will downgrade me on my essay, that's the danger, right?

00:23:52.940 So I don't think in the West the danger comes from, you know, the big Orwellian big brother stopping us from speaking.

00:23:59.620 But if you create an environment where people are afraid to express themselves freely, then the fascists have won the game.

00:24:07.540 There's a recent example that I want to get your take on.

00:24:13.100 I'm sure, as I'm sure you've seen, you're very active across social media.

00:24:17.300 Kanye West, or Ye, has released a new song titled Heil Hitler.

00:24:23.840 Do you think it was wrong for Spotify and other platforms to ban it?

00:24:28.040 Or do you think it should have been allowed online?

00:24:30.080 I'm going, now I'm going to get tons of hatred from fellow Jews who are going to say, how dare you?

00:24:38.260 I think that fits under my free speech absolutism, right?

00:24:42.920 Is it grotesque?

00:24:44.660 Yes.

00:24:45.700 Do I wish that he wouldn't glorify Hitler? 0.95

00:24:50.740 Yes. 1.00

00:24:52.060 In a free speech, in a free society, do we have to tolerate imbeciles? 1.00

00:24:56.400 Yes. 1.00

00:24:57.060 And so, from my perspective, I support the right of him to be an idiot. 0.99

00:25:02.880 You said you'll probably get a lot of feedback on it. 0.99

00:25:06.740 You've gained a lot of notoriety and publicity thanks to your image as this controversial thinker

00:25:13.960 who's not afraid to say exactly the truth as you see it.

00:25:18.660 Do you like that image of yourself?

00:25:21.500 Is that notoriety part of what drives you now?

00:25:24.860 Well, it's a fair question for you to ask, but absolutely not.

00:25:31.260 What drives me is the following.

00:25:34.780 I have a very exacting code of personal conduct.

00:25:39.420 I'm my worst critic.

00:25:41.600 Therefore, when I go to bed at night and I put my head on the pillow,

00:25:45.060 the only thing that stops me from having insomnia is to know that I never modulated in my defense of truth.

00:25:55.040 My mother told me many, many years ago when I was a young man, she told me,

00:25:59.660 you know, God, the quicker that you realize that the world doesn't abide to your purity bubble,

00:26:05.900 the happier you'll be.

00:26:07.240 Well, guess what?

00:26:08.280 What drives me is perhaps a naive perspective on living in a purity bubble.

00:26:15.300 And so for if I were to stop from speaking, then I would feel as though I'm fraudulent.

00:26:21.900 I would feel as though I'm a charlatan.

00:26:23.480 So I don't do what I do because I get the ego strokes of being notorious and famous.

00:26:28.880 I do what I do because if I don't, then I would consider myself to be a fraud.

00:26:34.320 OK, well, let's put some of those famous views to some current global events

00:26:39.780 because there's a lot of things happening that I'm sure our viewers, your viewers,

00:26:44.260 will be interested to get your take on.

00:26:46.740 You've spoken and written at length about intellectual terrorism,

00:26:51.820 as you call it on university campuses.

00:26:53.640 So as a self-proclaimed free speech absolutist,

00:26:58.160 how do you feel about the current US administration's crackdown on student protests?

00:27:05.500 So again, if the student protests are,

00:27:09.000 we think that this particular policy by this foreign government is wrong,

00:27:16.300 go at it, have fun.

00:27:17.680 If that means that Jewish students are afraid to walk to class

00:27:23.340 or they can't walk to class because there are blockades,

00:27:27.780 if they feel harassed, intimidated, and so on,

00:27:30.960 then that crosses the line into incitement to violence.

00:27:35.260 I've said this before, but I'm happy to repeat it.

00:27:37.860 I took a leave of absence from my home university in Montreal,

00:27:42.440 and I'm currently a visiting professor at Northwood University in Michigan.

00:27:47.680 Because it became quite dangerous for me to be at my home university.

00:27:53.120 This is not happening in Yemen or in North Korea or in Chinese communists in the 1950s.

00:28:01.160 It's happening in Montreal, Canada.

00:28:03.640 That's probably not a good thing.

00:28:05.660 So protest as much as you want, because we believe in free speech.

00:28:09.920 That doesn't give you the right to infringe on the rights of others.

00:28:13.880 Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

00:28:15.540 Elon Musk is a fan of yours.

00:28:19.620 He went all in with Trump's campaign,

00:28:24.860 taking on responsibility for cutting government waste, for example.

00:28:28.820 But there was some considerable backlash,

00:28:31.220 and now it seems as if he's pulled back a little bit.

00:28:34.360 How do you think that history, society will remember his involvement in politics in Trump's second term?

00:28:45.340 I mean, I'll answer that in a second,

00:28:47.920 but I went on record as soon as I had found out that Elon was going to purchase what was then Twitter.

00:28:54.520 I went on my channel, and I produced a clip where I said,

00:29:01.280 of all things that Elon Musk has done or will ever do,

00:29:06.020 none will be remotely as consequential as him having done that.

00:29:10.020 Because he has allowed a proliferation of voices, including mine,

00:29:14.880 that would have been, if not silenced, much, much lesser amplified had he—

00:29:19.760 and I know this for a fact, because until he came along, my reach was lesser.

00:29:24.320 I mean, it was big, but it was lesser than after he, you know, unleashed freedom.

00:29:29.740 In terms of his politics, look,

00:29:32.360 I think from the perspective of someone who's written The Parasitic Mind,

00:29:37.420 I wholeheartedly supported the fact that he went all in on Donald Trump,

00:29:42.200 because Donald Trump, for better or worse, whether you like him or not,

00:29:46.240 is very much anti-woke.

00:29:48.120 And there is nothing in life that is as dangerous as a parasitized mind.

00:29:52.860 So the fact that, for example, I no longer apply for research grants

00:29:57.100 because I'm not willing to give diversity, inclusion, and equity statements

00:30:01.860 as part of my application, that doesn't bode well for science.

00:30:05.460 And so I'm thrilled that he chose the right candidate.

00:30:09.500 But as I said, the most important thing that Elon Musk will ever do

00:30:13.900 is his staunch defense of freedom as per his purchase of X.

00:30:19.220 You've said that he deserves a Nobel Prize for his purchase of X.

00:30:24.400 Is that just a Nobel Prize for someone who has a lot of money

00:30:27.420 and can splash it around so that he can have the things he wants to hear

00:30:31.080 on his own platform?

00:30:33.140 I mean, I wouldn't say that the Nobel Prize is just for having purchased X,

00:30:38.920 but certainly for having promoted a proliferation of ideas.

00:30:44.100 But in that sense, yes, you're right, that that came about

00:30:46.980 through his purchasing X.

00:30:49.180 Look, from a straight commercial economic perspective, 1.00

00:30:52.520 many people were saying that he was an idiot for having purchased X 1.00

00:30:58.040 at the price that he did. 1.00

00:30:59.600 So one could argue that commercially speaking and economically speaking,

00:31:04.380 he took a huge hit in order to do that,

00:31:07.560 which exactly proves the purity of his objectives,

00:31:11.440 which is notwithstanding the fact that he knew

00:31:14.960 that he would lose a lot of money, potentially,

00:31:18.120 that he would create a lot of enemies.

00:31:20.580 That has turned out to be true.

00:31:22.120 He was willing to put his neck out.

00:31:24.380 And so from that perspective,

00:31:25.620 he certainly deserves it much more than Prophet Barack Obama.

00:31:30.420 Mm-hmm.

00:31:30.740 Donald Trump won his historic term despite legal woes,

00:31:36.260 despite being no stranger to controversy.

00:31:39.080 Why do you think that he was a more appealing choice to people

00:31:43.720 rather than Kamala Harris? 1.00

00:31:47.340 Well, first, because Kamala Harris is a lobotomised fool 1.00

00:31:51.880 that can't complete a sentence, 0.99

00:31:53.320 so that could certainly have something to do with it.

00:31:55.480 But beyond that, I think that most people had had enough

00:31:59.360 with having to nod politely when a six-foot-four male

00:32:04.600 was sharing the locker room with their 12-year-old daughter, right?

00:32:11.040 And so, you know, common sense has a way of catching up

00:32:14.760 to all of your ideological capture at some point.

00:32:17.540 And so to the extent that Donald Trump was an exemplar

00:32:22.440 of a return to reality, a return to common sense,

00:32:26.620 most people said, look, I've had enough with, you know,

00:32:29.960 I mean, I keep saying the transgender issue, 0.92

00:32:32.360 but it's hardly only that, right?

00:32:33.940 There are many, many other issues.

00:32:35.920 For example, Kamala Harris was, I mean,

00:32:39.400 even though she didn't call herself that,

00:32:41.280 she is an avowed communist in her ethos.

00:32:44.500 When she says we have to create policies

00:32:47.740 whereby all people end up at the same place,

00:32:51.140 that is literally the definition of socialism slash communism.

00:32:54.900 No, we don't have to end up at the same place.

00:32:56.960 We should start with equal opportunities,

00:32:59.120 but that doesn't mean that we all have equal talents,

00:33:02.800 equal ambition.

00:33:03.940 Some of us are taller, shorter, better looking,

00:33:06.340 less better looking.

00:33:07.520 And so E.O. Wilson, the famous Harvard biologist,

00:33:10.620 when he was famously asked about his views on communism,

00:33:14.180 he said, great idea, wrong species.

00:33:17.440 And he studied social ants.

00:33:19.760 Ants are communistic, human beings are not. 0.74

00:33:22.640 And United States is a capitalist country,

00:33:25.100 so it doesn't surprise me that most people said,

00:33:28.000 given those two choices,

00:33:29.240 I'm going to go with Trump over lobotomized Kamala. 1.00

00:33:32.440 The almost exact opposite seemed to have happened

00:33:36.600 in your home country, in Canada.

00:33:38.660 What did you make of this apparent dramatic turnaround

00:33:42.680 of the fortunes of the Liberal Party,

00:33:45.300 reportedly as a direct reaction to the rhetoric of Donald Trump?

00:33:50.940 Well, what an amazing question.

00:33:53.200 Thank you for that.

00:33:54.280 I think if I can tie it back to an earlier segment

00:33:58.200 that we were chatting where I said it is so difficult

00:34:01.060 to get people to change their opinions,

00:34:03.520 Canadians perfectly exemplify that, right?

00:34:08.340 So they had one mandate under Justin Trudeau,

00:34:11.940 and most people complained that it was disastrous.

00:34:14.500 So then they went to the ballot box and said,

00:34:16.620 hey, let's vote for Justin Trudeau a second time.

00:34:19.600 And then when that happened, they said,

00:34:21.060 here's a great idea.

00:34:22.360 Let's put him back in power for a third time.

00:34:25.280 And when that ended, let's bring the next guy

00:34:28.960 who is just Justin Trudeau in what appears

00:34:31.860 to be a slightly less woke skin.

00:34:35.320 And so I was baffled by it, but perhaps not surprised

00:34:39.800 in that, and not to be critical of Pierre Poilievre,

00:34:44.060 I think that he didn't do all that he could have done,

00:34:49.400 which resulted in him losing.

00:34:51.500 I can't remember what the exact numbers were.

00:34:53.080 I think he was ahead by 30 points or whatever it was,

00:34:55.440 some insurmountable lead, and then he lost it.

00:34:58.440 It speaks precisely to our earlier point.

00:35:02.140 Once people commit to a particular course of action,

00:35:05.920 it's difficult to dislodge him.

00:35:07.180 And I'll just mention one other thing.

00:35:09.020 I will often be approached by fans on the street,

00:35:12.640 and they'll say, oh, I love your work.

00:35:14.480 I love everything you stand for.

00:35:16.120 And then I'll look at them politely and say,

00:35:18.100 so who did you vote for?

00:35:19.500 Oh, Professor Saad, I voted for the Liberal Party, of course.

00:35:22.740 And I say, but do you realize that almost every position

00:35:25.420 that you're saying that you support in me

00:35:27.320 is contrary to that of the Liberal Party?

00:35:30.280 And then they sort of scratch their heads.

00:35:32.160 It speaks to the fact that most people

00:35:34.220 don't necessarily put in all of the cognitive effort

00:35:37.100 when they're casting their votes.

00:35:39.460 Can it not be viewed the other way, though,

00:35:42.180 that if you looked at the polls,

00:35:44.760 yes, the opposition had this insurmountable lead.

00:35:47.940 People were going to vote for him.

00:35:51.500 But then they did have the ability to change course,

00:35:55.100 to change their mind,

00:35:56.740 because they didn't like the way that that was going.

00:36:00.320 I mean, of course, I don't have the empirical evidence

00:36:03.520 to counter what you just said.

00:36:05.900 But certainly from the anecdotal evidence that I have

00:36:10.060 from interacting with many people who come up to me

00:36:12.820 and chat with me and so on,

00:36:13.940 I didn't get the sense that what you said is what was happening.

00:36:18.520 But who knows?

00:36:19.160 We'd have to let the political scientists test that hypothesis.

00:36:22.860 I'm sure that they will.

00:36:25.340 All right.

00:36:26.060 On the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas,

00:36:29.460 as Jews in Lebanon,

00:36:30.640 your family was displaced

00:36:32.340 and forced to flee during the civil war in the 70s.

00:36:35.460 So, how do you view President Trump's plan

00:36:39.860 to then displace Palestinians from Gaza

00:36:42.800 to build what he calls the Riviera in the region?

00:36:47.340 Yeah, I'm not sure if the optics of how he went about it

00:36:52.200 is going to make a lot of people in the region happy.

00:36:55.420 So, I might have chosen

00:36:57.400 a slightly different stylistic approach,

00:37:00.140 but that's what Donald Trump does.

00:37:02.300 Look, in an ideal world,

00:37:05.040 I would love for both peoples to coexist.

00:37:10.940 That's only going to happen

00:37:12.680 when both people recognize the right of the other

00:37:16.820 to exist on that land.

00:37:18.620 From my perspective as a Jewish person

00:37:21.280 who had to wear some really good running shoes

00:37:23.960 to outrun those who wanted to do bad things to me,

00:37:27.580 I know where the lack of acceptance

00:37:33.040 of the other comes from.

00:37:34.780 Once all peoples in that region say, 0.97

00:37:37.940 I want a world where my neighbor can exist,

00:37:42.220 it will unleash a new era in the Middle East 0.99

00:37:45.840 that is absolutely unbelievable.

00:37:47.640 And I'm glad to see that many of the Gulf countries,

00:37:50.080 by the way,

00:37:50.860 are starting to demonstrate that reality, right?

00:37:54.700 If you see Saudi Arabia, if you see Dubai,

00:37:58.340 if you see Abu Dhabi,

00:38:00.660 you're seeing a real rapprochement with Israel.

00:38:04.300 And so, inshallah, as we say,

00:38:07.180 we will see some love flowing in the Middle East soon.

00:38:11.060 We're almost out of time.

00:38:12.380 I just have two questions for you.

00:38:14.640 One parasitic thought that you highlight

00:38:16.860 is this idea of ostrich syndrome,

00:38:19.420 burying your head in the sand.

00:38:20.840 Like you were saying,

00:38:21.440 la, la, la, I don't want to hear it.

00:38:22.720 There are many people

00:38:24.180 and many international organizations

00:38:26.060 accusing Israel of genocide and starvation in Gaza.

00:38:29.680 Do you see this ostrich syndrome

00:38:32.420 as the behavior of some of Israel's ardent supporters?

00:38:38.420 You mean in the sense that those Israeli supporters

00:38:41.740 are denying a reality that the other camp is saying?

00:38:45.700 Is that what you mean?

00:38:46.680 Yes, indeed.

00:38:47.920 Yeah.

00:38:48.100 Look, have there been an untold number of people killed?

00:38:55.580 Yes.

00:38:56.380 Is it tragic when any innocent person dies

00:39:00.200 on either side of the aisle?

00:39:03.080 Absolutely, yes.

00:39:04.640 That said, when the Hamas directory comes out

00:39:09.360 with their casualty figures,

00:39:11.060 it may not be a manifestation of ostrich parasitic syndrome

00:39:14.680 to maybe question the veracity of their data, right?

00:39:18.020 And so it is undoubtedly probably true what you're saying,

00:39:21.880 which is some people on the Israeli side

00:39:24.180 are not going to be willing to accept any evidence

00:39:27.960 that is contrary to their narrative.

00:39:29.700 But I would also urge people to realize

00:39:32.260 that maybe the other side is not always fully accurate

00:39:35.760 when they report their data.

00:39:37.280 And again, just to balance that question out,

00:39:41.720 on the flip side,

00:39:43.760 there are probably supporters of the Palestinian cause of Hamas

00:39:48.080 who are equally not willing to see the Israeli side.

00:39:52.760 Is it a bit of a case of one person's freedom fight

00:39:55.200 or is another person's terrorist?

00:39:57.800 I mean, there is a bit of that.

00:39:58.980 And it's also, look, I was mentioning earlier about empathy

00:40:02.540 and misguided empathy and suicidal empathy.

00:40:04.640 One of the ways that you really are able

00:40:08.380 to do horrible things to the other,

00:40:10.160 irrespective of who is in camp A or camp B,

00:40:12.980 is to lose your ability to empathize with the other,

00:40:17.420 because then that allows me

00:40:18.800 to do horrible things to the other, right?

00:40:21.060 And I'll give you a good example

00:40:22.880 that actually I discuss in my forthcoming book.

00:40:25.540 So you're getting some preview, some exclusive.

00:40:27.700 Great news.

00:40:28.380 We love that on CounterPoints.

00:40:30.000 Give us an exclusive, Dr. Saad.

00:40:31.900 There you go.

00:40:32.400 Do you remember when, I think it was maybe 2014,

00:40:36.060 I can't remember the exact date,

00:40:37.280 but I do have the reference in the book,

00:40:39.860 where there were, I think, 1,500 Shia Iraqis

00:40:45.300 that were being led in a long orderly queue by ISIS,

00:40:50.780 and they were being summarily executed.

00:40:54.600 Well, when I watched that clip,

00:40:56.880 I was filled with rage.

00:40:58.620 Why?

00:40:59.620 Because I didn't see those Shia Muslims as my enemy.

00:41:04.580 I saw them as human beings,

00:41:06.180 and I just couldn't believe that one set of human beings

00:41:09.620 can do that to another set of human beings, right?

00:41:12.380 And therefore, I had the right empathy in my heart

00:41:15.900 to recognize that it didn't matter

00:41:18.320 that they were Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim.

00:41:21.120 Anytime someone innocent is being killed

00:41:23.540 in such a grotesque way,

00:41:24.800 they are deserving of my empathy.

00:41:28.580 And so what I'd love to see

00:41:30.460 is for the Israelis to recognize

00:41:33.720 that when the other side feels pain,

00:41:37.420 we should empathize with them and vice versa.

00:41:39.980 And if we can get that,

00:41:41.700 then we can find our common humanity.

00:41:44.020 Well, on that, on that positive, optimistic note,

00:41:48.220 let's end on some happiness.

00:41:51.100 You wrote a book called

00:41:52.200 The Sad Truth About Happiness,

00:41:54.220 Eight Secrets to Leading a Good Life.

00:41:56.200 It was one of your earlier books.

00:41:58.280 To round out our conversation,

00:42:00.480 what is the most important rule to happiness for you?

00:42:04.640 Well, and it's not because she's within earshot.

00:42:10.640 I would say that choosing the right spouse

00:42:13.220 is certainly going to, you know,

00:42:16.520 give you a heads up or headway

00:42:18.820 in terms of climbing Mount Happiness.

00:42:21.280 Because if every morning I wake up next to a person

00:42:25.020 and I look and I go,

00:42:26.240 oh God, not her again,

00:42:27.760 that's probably not going to make me happy.

00:42:30.100 But if I wake up next to that person and go,

00:42:32.200 yes, what have I done in life

00:42:34.280 that I can deserve to wake up to such an angel,

00:42:36.640 then I'm probably going to have a good day.

00:42:38.620 So I would say choosing the right spouse

00:42:40.780 and choosing the right profession

00:42:42.620 that gives you purpose and meaning,

00:42:45.460 which certainly the profession that I have chosen

00:42:47.460 has given me that purpose and meaning,

00:42:49.920 is one of the reasons why I'm referred to

00:42:52.180 as the happy warrior

00:42:53.100 and I always have a smile on my face.

00:42:55.500 Well, whether people agree or disagree with you,

00:42:58.780 I think that that is one topic

00:43:01.120 that people can get behind.

00:43:03.940 I think that's a wonderful way

00:43:05.980 to finish our conversation.

00:43:07.860 It's been really interesting

00:43:09.060 to get your thoughts,

00:43:10.620 to challenge you on some topics

00:43:12.000 and to have your really unique perspective.

00:43:15.480 Dr Gad Saad,

00:43:16.660 evolutionary, behavioural scientist and author,

00:43:19.640 thank you for your time here

00:43:20.980 on Counterpoints on Al Arabiya English.

00:43:23.080 Thank you so much.

00:43:25.260 It was a delightful conversation.

00:43:27.320 Thank you so much.

00:43:30.500 And as always,

00:43:31.900 thank you to you at home

00:43:33.200 for joining us

00:43:34.000 on this special Counterpoints interview.

00:43:36.740 You can, of course,

00:43:37.780 catch all our debates

00:43:38.960 on Al Arabiya English

00:43:40.320 on our YouTube channel

00:43:41.860 and follow us on X and TikTok.

00:43:43.820 We'll see you next time.

00:43:45.020 We'll see you next time.

00:44:15.020 We'll see you next time.

00:44:22.440 Bye, Ivan.

00:44:22.900 Bye.

00:44:23.500 Bye.

00:44:24.000 Bye.

00:44:24.100 Bye.

00:44:24.700 Bye.

00:44:24.820 Bye.

00:44:29.120 Bye.

00:44:30.300 Bye.

00:44:30.900 Bye.

The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - May 22, 2025

‘Kamala Harris Is A Lobotomized Fool’ ｜ Gad Saad On Trump, Freedom, Censorship (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_837)

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