The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - My Chat with Mario Nawfal, Entrepreneur and Host of the Largest Spaces on X (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_715)

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00:01:16.060 Hey everybody, this is Ghat Saad. The gentleman that I have with me is a fellow Lebanese.

00:01:21.660 His name is Mario Naufal, and he is the host of the biggest show on X-Spaces. He's been kind enough

00:01:29.280 to invite me a few times on the show, which is a big honor because he's got some really,

00:01:33.540 really big guests. Haven't been able to go on his show yet, but I made sure to invite him first on

00:01:38.200 mine. So hopefully he'll keep trying to get me on his. How are you doing, Mario?

00:01:42.420 Good, doctor. How are you?

00:01:43.720 I'm doing very well. So tell us, tell us a bit. I only found out that you were Lebanese when your team

00:01:50.040 sent me the short bio. I mean, I figured you were of some Middle Eastern descent because of your last

00:01:54.640 name. Were you born in Lebanon? Do you speak Arabic? Give us a bit of the personal stuff.

00:02:00.740 Yeah, I don't talk about it a lot, really. I'm surprised my team put it in the bio because I,

00:02:05.880 for me, I never, even though I've lived most of my life in Australia, so I migrated there as a kid.

00:02:10.180 I was born in Lebanon, but it's because I've been, I'm in Hungary now. I was in Dubai yesterday. I was in

00:02:15.180 Singapore a few days before. I've lived in almost a new country every three to six months. So I don't

00:02:21.160 identify behind any one culture or religion. Even my accent changes every six months. But I was born,

00:02:29.040 I was born in Lebanon. I migrated out of that country as a child and lived in Australia for the

00:02:35.020 majority of my life and then started traveling the world. Well, my only exposure to Australia was in

00:02:41.020 2001. It was my first sabbatical leave after I had been promoted as a professor. It was a one-year

00:02:48.560 leave. And I spent seven weeks in that region, five weeks in Australia, two weeks in New Zealand,

00:02:57.340 fell in love with the place. I've never been back. And I saw in your bio that you attended Monash

00:03:03.640 University and I actually visited some folks at Monash. So tell us about that. What did you study there?

00:03:09.300 Well, yeah, I studied banking and finance. And then I listened to a boy on YouTube who made his

00:03:16.220 first million dollars at age 16. I'm very entrepreneurial. My business is mainly investing

00:03:21.100 and I've built a few businesses. And I dropped out of university near the end. I was doing really

00:03:26.320 well when I heard of a boy that made a million dollars at age 16. And she got, I'm like, what am I

00:03:31.560 doing? So I dropped out and I, I, um, I was going to study journalism, believe it. And I was going to

00:03:37.040 go to Canberra university. I think it was, I think it was Canberra university to study, um, political

00:03:43.700 science. And that was my passion. I really wanted to join the United nations. And then I realized

00:03:50.400 that's not what the money is. I'm not going to be able to have a, achieve the things I wanted to

00:03:55.160 achieve in life. You know, I come from a pretty, pretty poor background. Uh, if I get into politics,

00:04:00.580 so unless, unless you're a politician in those countries where you can make a lot of money.

00:04:06.260 And so I, I got into banking and finance, um, but politics has been, you know, in my blood,

00:04:12.060 been my passion for a really long time.

00:04:13.680 But I would be remiss as a professor, uh, if I didn't push back a bit and say, surely

00:04:19.640 there is more to life than simply making money. So is there any chance that you could ever just

00:04:24.840 for the sheer beauty of completing that, which you started, would you ever reconsider going back

00:04:29.800 and finishing your degree, despite the fact that you are a huge success?

00:04:33.820 No. So, so money obviously is one indicator. Second, the first step before you wish for anything

00:04:38.880 else, I think it's important to get money to be able to meet the necessities. You know, as I

00:04:43.480 said, I come from Lebanon, so I do have a side of my family still in that country that's economically

00:04:48.220 completely destroyed. Um, so I need to support that side of my life, you know, and support my

00:04:54.080 lifestyle and people around me. So I think money is, is, is one requirement. Now in terms of finishing

00:04:58.600 it, there's no purpose to it and beyond optics. I say that with all my respect, because I, I don't

00:05:05.340 need the bank for, for at least what I'm doing. It depends on the person. Obviously I give that advice

00:05:09.940 to a lot of people for what I'm doing. It only matters for optics. And, you know, I'm grateful

00:05:15.320 enough to kind of be in a position where I don't need that anymore. I've never been asked

00:05:20.040 about my degree. I think you're the first person in over a decade that's asked about my university,

00:05:25.220 even mentioned university. Um, and that's probably the first time I talk about it publicly. Um,

00:05:30.100 obviously you're a professor, so it makes sense, but I just don't think it's a, it's a necessity.

00:05:34.760 You know, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. Uh, well I'll give you, I'll give a shot and

00:05:39.420 then we can move on something else. It's funny that we're talking about this because, uh, this

00:05:43.680 summer I appeared on a show. Do you know the show called diary of a CEO? I think I could

00:05:51.800 long time ago. Okay. It's, uh, he's actually someone who's also become very successful as

00:05:57.160 a show host. Uh, I think he's now maybe at maybe 7 million subscribers on YouTube and out

00:06:04.640 of all of the shows that I've been on. And in my career, I've been on a lot of shows. Uh,

00:06:10.360 I would venture to say that he was certainly in the top three best hosts I've ever had really just

00:06:17.220 a wonderful conversationalist knows exactly how to do the tango in terms of the rhythm of the

00:06:22.500 conversation. The reason I bring him up is because at one point he asked me, and I don't know if,

00:06:27.400 if that part of the conversation made it into the final, you know, cut, but he asked me, you know,

00:06:33.020 I've always thought about studying business and psychology. So Dr. Saad, what do you think? And

00:06:38.480 so that's how it originally came up this summer. And I said, you know what, it doesn't matter how

00:06:42.040 successful you are just pursue it for intrinsic reasons. Two quick stories that I discuss actually

00:06:47.700 in my happiness book. One gentleman, Mario had escaped Nazi Germany. He's a Jewish guy who escaped

00:06:54.740 Nazi Germany in the thirties, came to Montreal, had a very successful career. And in his sixties,

00:07:00.420 decided to go back, complete his undergrad in his seventies. He finished his masters. And I think

00:07:06.000 at the age of 91 or 92, got his PhD. The second guy, uh, who came on my show, by the way, uh,

00:07:13.460 got, got a medical degree in 1955, then picked up a PhD in 1967, but his first love was always physics.

00:07:22.160 So when he retired from medicine in his seventies, he then enrolled in a PhD program in physics and

00:07:28.200 finished his PhD at 89. So that, this is my last pitch for this. Maybe in 50 years, when you decide

00:07:36.280 I've done it all, I've succeeded in every possible way, you can go back just for the pure joy of

00:07:41.400 learning that I, in the least bit convince you, or am I falling on deaf ears?

00:07:45.200 If you're, if no, no, if you're convincing me to learn, I'm extremely convinced. I think if you need

00:07:50.940 to learn through university, that's one way of doing it. Sure. Um, there's just so many ways in

00:07:55.700 today's Asia, there's just so many ways to absorb information, just discussions like this. Like I

00:07:59.980 absorb information. My way of learning is two way conversations, a conversation like this is the,

00:08:05.040 you know, I'm, I'm, I'm speaking to the former president of Hungary tomorrow, and we're going

00:08:09.160 to be talking about population collapse. And I have to research it before having that discussion.

00:08:13.000 And that discussion will be tomorrow. That discussion will probably teach me more than,

00:08:17.820 you know, a month or two in college, just because of the fact that it was a two way conversation

00:08:22.980 and it was meant to be, I'm creating content for others. So I think that's my way of learning.

00:08:29.020 And, uh, you know, the way I absorb information will change over time as I age and it would,

00:08:34.440 as I just grow as a person. And if I get to a stage where I can focus enough to go back to college,

00:08:39.080 um, why not? It could be, it could be nice to go do another year at Monash and finish my degree.

00:08:43.920 Uh, you said president. So is this, uh, president Novak? Correct. Yes. Oh, okay. Well say hello to

00:08:51.540 her from me because last year, uh, in, uh, actually almost exactly a year ago, maybe a week ago, a year

00:08:58.780 ago, uh, I had been invited to be one of the plenary speakers at, to your point about what you're talking

00:09:04.060 to her about. Uh, I've been invited to speak at the Budapest Demography Summit. And I was actually,

00:09:10.000 uh, lecturing about some of the evolutionary dynamics involved in forming a family and what

00:09:16.540 are some of the parasitic ideas that are stopping people from reproducing. And so that's wonderful.

00:09:22.680 What, what's been your, uh, you know, first impression of Hungary if you haven't already been there?

00:09:28.640 I've been to Hungary before. I, um, I think her story is fascinating. I was pretty surprised to see

00:09:37.300 the success she had, even though it was limited and it's a long way to go. She's a success,

00:09:41.120 a small success. There's not many countries that were able to reverse the drop in fertility. Now,

00:09:45.720 for anyone listening, you know, kind of thinking, what the hell are we talking about? This is one

00:09:50.200 of the most, well, everyone's focusing on Ukraine or Gaza or the next pandemic, um, or the left versus

00:09:56.420 the right. One of the, the, the, the most concerning issues to face civilization right now is population

00:10:02.400 collapse. And, um, you know, president Novak has, you know, is really leading the way and kind of

00:10:08.760 bringing awareness to this issue and talking to other leaders about it as well. So I am,

00:10:14.340 you know, I was just fascinated by the fact that she was one of the very few, I think she did the

00:10:19.940 best job so far out of all leaders to be able to have at least some sort of successful strategy.

00:10:25.480 I won't really dig into what exactly she did, um, because the, the issue of, of, of the dropping

00:10:30.520 fertility rates, and you probably don't know this a lot more than, than I do, doctor, but it's

00:10:36.040 global. Africa's catching on. No one would have mentioned Africa. Arab countries are, uh, are already 0.99

00:10:41.980 heading that direction. And it applies to Japan and Italy, two very different cultures, very different

00:10:47.540 economies, very different ways, ways of life, the way they treat work as well. And China and Cuba

00:10:54.040 and Canada and Australia, it was just, it's probably the only, um, the only issue that is still

00:11:02.980 unresolved. No one can really point at one or at least a handful of reasons. Maybe you do,

00:11:07.500 you know, a few, maybe the president knows a few as well, but I don't, um, that is leading to this,

00:11:12.440 or at least how to reverse it, like a solution that's been applied successfully, um, to such a

00:11:17.800 concerning and, and, and bizarre problem, to be honest, especially because during the last few

00:11:22.000 decades, everyone's talking about population overload. I think in Hungary, and you'll correct 1.00

00:11:27.500 me if I'm wrong, I think they've tied the fertility trajectory of women to the amount of income taxes 0.99

00:11:35.340 that they are beholden to. And I think if you have four kids or more, no more taxes for you. Does

00:11:42.280 that, does that cover it pretty much? Yeah, it does. But why did it work in Hungary, but it didn't work

00:11:48.160 in Japan or Korea? Oh, they had the same tax structure? No, there's no, no. So it's a

00:11:53.320 different structure, but they had other economic means. So maybe hers. So I'll dig into it tomorrow

00:11:58.740 and I'll let you know, I'll just, I'll send you a quick voice note or message and what she says to

00:12:03.000 me. But I know she met with the leader of, of the prime minister of Japan, I think recently.

00:12:07.720 I think it was, yeah, Japan, to kind of go through her strategy. But it worked. Again, 0.99

00:12:13.940 it was a 30% improvement. Hungary is still one of the 20 countries, I think it's at number 1.00

00:12:17.820 14. So the top 15 countries still with the lowest fertility rate. So still very concerning

00:12:22.700 because of the population collapse, especially for such a beautiful country. I'm there now,

00:12:27.760 obviously. But it's, yeah, it's at least a glimmer of hope in, in that, in that bizarre issue that no

00:12:37.020 one talks about. So a lot of people listening to us now, hopefully many will, and please feel free

00:12:42.100 to upload it and share it anywhere that you want on your platforms. We'll look at you, you're, you're

00:12:46.140 obviously a well, very well spoken guy, you're highly successful. And there's a million people

00:12:52.060 sitting there and saying, well, how can I become Mario? What, what's his secret sauce? What's his

00:12:56.240 recipe, right? So, okay, we spoke a bit about how you went to university, then decided, okay,

00:13:00.800 that's not for me, I'm going to become an entrepreneur. Is there a set before we drill

00:13:05.300 down on your show and your guests and so on? Is there a how to sort of a prescription list that

00:13:12.360 you can offer for how people might be able to not necessarily emulate your success, but go down the

00:13:17.840 path that you went down? So, um, there's just so many factors, Professor, and I know you probably

00:13:25.680 really, you know, you know, you know, a lot more factors than I do, having spoken to a lot more

00:13:31.300 people than I, but one thing I've learned is I've tested many, many things. And that goes, you know,

00:13:36.960 I've, I've, I've had my success well before the, the media, you know, empire, whatever you call it,

00:13:43.140 the media company business were built well before the investment side of the business. I built,

00:13:47.500 I made my money in Australia and I'm talking from a wealth perspective here, not talking about my reach

00:13:52.860 in the media side, but it also applies to the media side. I've tested a lot of things and it's like

00:13:57.020 you constantly test. So obviously, um, persistence is important. You know, I've gone through my fair

00:14:02.580 share that you surprised me. I was going to do an interview with Joe Rogan. I don't know how you

00:14:06.360 haven't been, you haven't gone your, through your, through your fair share of, of cancellation yet.

00:14:11.840 Joe was laughing about it. Come on, look at that smile. How could you cancel a guy with such a smile?

00:14:16.520 Yeah. But as I've gone through that and I had to proceed, persist, um, persevere. Um, another one

00:14:24.680 was testing many things, you know, kind of the pebbles before the cannonball, you know, throw a

00:14:28.800 kind of a gym, Jim Collins, good to great. I think it was the book. You throw a lot of pebbles, you see

00:14:32.980 what lands. And then when something works, you just got to double down and you got to do it consistently.

00:14:37.740 And like, for example, right now, I don't want to travel. I really want to be stable. I've been

00:14:42.020 traveling all my life. I want to be stable, not travel. I was telling this to, to, to, to my,

00:14:45.780 to my team earlier. I'm just so exhausted of traveling. I was in Singapore a few days ago.

00:14:50.120 I was in Dubai this morning. I'm in Hungary today and I'll be in Washington in two days.

00:14:54.680 Um, so it's because this, it's what it takes. Um, so I, and I'm, I'm, I'm ill today and I'm doing

00:15:01.520 an interview with you and I'm doing two more tomorrow because it's what it takes. So when

00:15:05.040 someone's listening, it takes a lot of hard work. It takes a lot of trial and error. Uh, and you've

00:15:12.940 got to be creative. I think that's the best way to kind of be very general vague and broad,

00:15:17.320 but at least it gives people an idea of kind of general rules that I've had to apply over the

00:15:22.880 years to succeed. You know, it's easy to have one thing to succeed in, but it's very difficult to

00:15:28.220 succeed in my first business, which was an e-commerce company, which still exists today

00:15:31.640 that I built in Australia 12 years ago. And to succeed in crypto, becoming the biggest,

00:15:35.900 one of the biggest crypto incubators and AI incubators and investors in the space to now having

00:15:41.160 the biggest show on X and previously having the biggest clubhouse room. Um, you know, I've, I've,

00:15:45.460 I've done it many times. Um, and, and I think these are some of these rules of, there's a lot more,

00:15:50.360 um, that I've had and, and luck wasn't on my side. For anyone that wants to point out luck,

00:15:54.360 it was definitely not on my side. So it's just a lot of, um, rules I've had to, not rules,

00:15:59.160 a lot of, um, strategies that I've had to use that I've kind of summarized them.

00:16:02.440 How do you get the confidence? You know, I mean, you're, you're, I mean, I, I guess you're in your

00:16:08.980 early thirties, if I may ask, is that, does that sound right? Uh, you know, you're, yes,

00:16:13.920 you're a man, but you're a young man and yet you're able to sit down, uh, or reach. I don't

00:16:19.080 even know how you reach many of the people or, or the people that you do. You reach them. They,

00:16:24.160 they're interested in sitting down. Do you think that you have the supreme level of self-assuredness

00:16:30.980 that is part of that list that you maybe failed to mention in the previous question? Because how else

00:16:36.520 could someone like you be saying, Hey, I can reach pretty much anybody. And, uh, I'd like to think

00:16:42.580 that they're going to say, yes, that takes, I mean, it's wrong to say it takes chutzpah because that

00:16:47.100 has a negative connotation to it, but it takes supreme confidence in yourself to be able to make

00:16:52.700 those moves. No, I do have imposter syndrome. So I don't, it's improved and I've really found ways

00:17:02.960 to deal with it. Um, maybe you could explain what that is for the people who don't know what it is.

00:17:09.060 To this day, I do an interview. Like I didn't, I don't do many interviews, uh, professor, very,

00:17:14.040 very little. Um, and what, the last one I did was with, I did one, I can't remember a few months,

00:17:20.200 there's one recent, a few months ago, I did one with Sputnik on the, um, um, because I'm,

00:17:25.360 I'm doing a lot more interviews in Russia and expanding to the Russian network because of the war in

00:17:28.520 Ukraine. So I didn't interview Sputnik to build that relationship. They've been asking me for a while.

00:17:33.580 And, um, obviously got censored in the West. Um, but I, I, um, uh, so I did that interview and,

00:17:40.200 um, I immediately called my team who was watching it live. It was like a TV interview and like,

00:17:46.620 I messed up, didn't I? I don't know if I can curse you. I curse. Go, go, go curse away.

00:17:51.060 Um, so I, I, I, I fucked up, didn't I? I called Jess at the time. She's like, no, no, 0.99

00:17:55.860 what are you talking about? You did great. And, um, it took me a while till I called her. Maybe I did. Okay.

00:17:59.960 I still have that till today, but once you interview people like Hunter Biden and Elon and

00:18:06.360 Bill Aquman and Mark Cuban and prime minister Khan and president Bolsonaro and all these different

00:18:10.620 people. And then I've done over the last year, it's, it did fine. It took a long time. It took

00:18:16.720 me to interview world leaders, some of the biggest, and I've had Elon on my show. Uh, at last I checked

00:18:21.780 on, on the, on the dashboard seven times, jumped on my space, uh, total. So to have someone, um,

00:18:29.200 um, you know, some people like him jump on and have those discussions with them and they become

00:18:34.920 casual, they become natural, but it took me a long time to get here. Um, so it wasn't easy. Now,

00:18:41.460 in terms of how do I reach all these names? Um, I'm going to obviously Washington. I'm interviewing

00:18:46.220 RFK, um, Kevin O'Leary, Tulsi Gabbard, Jordan Peterson, which I know you've had an interview

00:18:54.420 with as well. Can't wait. It's on my next, on my YouTube to listen to on the plane, uh,

00:18:58.500 tomorrow. Um, and the list goes on. So interview all these different political leaders, various

00:19:03.380 senators and stuff in the U S and the answer is very simple. There, um, is, is when you,

00:19:09.440 when you do one interview and you know, if I have an interview with you and you find it pleasant,

00:19:14.320 we, you know, I'll have you on my show hopefully soon. And, and you have me on yours now. Um,

00:19:18.880 and if I asked you, you know, Dr, do you mind connecting me to this person? And if our relationship

00:19:23.180 was good, if, if you found me to be a good person, a good person to interview, to be on my show,

00:19:28.140 then you'd make that introduction. And that's been the way that I've expanded network to be able to

00:19:33.100 message. Um, you know, I remember when I interviewed Eduardo Bolsonaro, Congressman Bolsonaro,

00:19:37.760 the son of the president who I've also had on my show, he was in Abu Dhabi. We interviewed in person

00:19:41.760 last week and on the spot, um, I want to interview prime minister, uh, president Miele, sorry.

00:19:48.880 So he gets his phone. He's like, take a selfie with me. Miele, you got to do an interview with

00:19:54.140 Mario. And then the next day my team is talking to Miele's team. And that's been the case across

00:19:59.660 the board. Now we've got, um, I can't mention the name, but there's a lot of massive names that

00:20:04.300 are being scheduled for later this year. So it's been good. That's well, I'm, uh, I'm even more

00:20:08.680 honored now that you've reached out to me a few times to bring me on the show. So I definitely

00:20:12.820 look forward to coming on your platform, uh, without mentioning names, of course, uh, and

00:20:18.500 you'll see in a second while I'm saying this, are there, so first we can address who are some

00:20:23.920 of the people that you met, uh, through this process that really blew your mind in a positive

00:20:29.860 way, even more than you would have hoped for. And are there some people without mentioning

00:20:34.800 names where you said, Oh boy, was this person a dud? Uh, and if so, why? So it's, you know,

00:20:41.100 I thought they would be a great conversationalist, but they ended up being very shy and withdrawn,

00:20:45.220 or I thought they would be supremely philosophical and knowledgeable. They turned out to be a dud.

00:20:49.780 Uh, what are some lessons from the battlefield that you could share with us? And again, of course,

00:20:55.480 you don't have to mention any names. Yeah. Incredible people to speak to. I'd say

00:21:01.260 Prime Minister Khan's discussion was great. Eric Weinstein is one of my favorites. He's been on

00:21:08.080 the show many, many times. Um, I'd say those two are notable ones. Obviously, Elon goes without

00:21:14.240 saying, so I won't even mention Elon because I think he's always on top of that list. Um,

00:21:20.340 I think those three were really good. I put them at the top of that list. Very good conversationalist,

00:21:26.160 very intellectual. It was fascinating. Some names, some names that most people won't know

00:21:32.020 that turn out to be, okay, let's get, let's get something. Let's, let's dig into something a bit

00:21:37.560 more difficult to talk about. I was very fascinated when I had people, when I, when I, um, considering

00:21:44.140 I was listening to your interview with Joe Rogan just before this, and you guys dug right into the,

00:21:48.560 in that interview, I think your 10th appearance on his show, you went right into October 7th,

00:21:52.800 the Gaza war, which is what everyone gets away with. So I'll, I'll, I'll have the courage and jump 1.00

00:21:57.120 in the same to discuss the same thing. I was fascinated by the intellect of people on both

00:22:02.440 sides of that battlefield. Both. I remember one show I did, uh, doctor, I had, um, a Palestinian 0.93

00:22:09.180 journalist that had lost most of his family, a great guy, his name is Muhammad, lost most of his

00:22:14.040 family members due to strikes, very intellectual. And then I had an Israeli pilot who was the person

00:22:21.480 that pulls that trigger and other Israelis as well, share the stage together. Um, I've had

00:22:27.260 Lebanese politicians and Israelis share the stage together as well, which is illegal for Lebanese

00:22:31.280 citizens. Um, and what was fascinating is that, you know, you'd, you'd, I feel like they, both sides

00:22:42.280 agree on most things. They just have different information they consider to be true. They have a

00:22:49.380 difference. If you listen to each one, their explanation of the same situation, and I'm kind

00:22:55.800 of digressing from your question, but I, it kind of answers it indirectly. It's like, they've been,

00:23:01.280 they described the same situation in different ways, where if I hear a Palestinian or a Lebanese

00:23:08.800 person describe that same situation, like, wow, you make a very good point. And I cannot disagree with

00:23:13.260 you. Then you listen to an Israeli person describe the same thing. You make a very good point. I can't 1.00

00:23:18.760 disagree with you, which then I'm like, then if both are intellectual, both are objective and both

00:23:23.420 are talking about the same thing, but in different ways, I feel like what's lacking is what are the

00:23:31.340 facts and how little we actually know. Um, I think this is, this has been my conclusion and kind of

00:23:38.920 indirectly answers your question where I've had a lot of really interesting intellectual conversations

00:23:43.720 about this very polarizing topic, one that scares the hell out of me because I've been canceled the

00:23:49.040 most about this topic, almost this topic more than anything else, because it's such a very, it's such a

00:23:55.040 delicate one, but it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a very intellectually interesting and intriguing one.

00:24:02.060 I think one of the reasons why to, to your, to your point about how you could listen to one side and

00:24:07.320 they make great points and you listen to the other side and they make great points. The reason why

00:24:11.660 oftentimes they're talking in different lanes is, uh, I'll propose this as a explanation and you tell

00:24:18.760 me what you think of it. So in, in psychology, you, you might've heard of the concept of theory of

00:24:23.960 mind. So theory of mind is an important mechanism by which people can have meaningful conversations.

00:24:30.280 I've got to put myself in the mind of Mario to make certain assumptions about what is, what are his

00:24:37.200 beliefs, his attitudes, his drives, and it is that, that allows us to oil our social relationships. So

00:24:44.020 for example, autistic children, Mario, one of the ways that you, uh, diagnose them early as being

00:24:50.340 autistic, there is no blood test that you could give to tell it, but if they fail this theory of mind

00:24:56.000 test, as you probably know, you know, autistic children are often very emotionally, you know, inept, 1.00

00:25:02.780 right? They don't read cues. Well, they can, it's precisely because they lack that module of theory

00:25:07.160 of mind. So now let me link it back to what you said about the two camps. I think what ends up

00:25:11.780 happening in my view is that each camp does not have theory of mind of the other, right? So, so,

00:25:20.480 so if I only view the world through the lens of looking inwards at my needs, my desires, my constraints,

00:25:28.620 then I could never understand the other side because I simply lack that ability. And, and,

00:25:33.660 and I think it applies to both. And that's why they end up speaking this way. What do you think of

00:25:38.260 that explanation? I think it's twofold. I think this is one of them. I think the ability to put

00:25:44.800 yourself in other person's shoes. Like if you, when you talk to me, when I talked to, I was having a

00:25:50.220 discussion with someone close to me yesterday about this exact thing. And I went through the process.

00:25:54.120 When I talk to someone on the Israeli side, it's very easy for me. I push back and I make the 1.00

00:26:03.700 argument that the other side would. And then I do the same with someone on the, on the, on the

00:26:09.060 Palestinian side. It applies to any topic really. But I, so I put myself in the shoes of the other

00:26:15.080 side to play devil's advocate, to have that two-way conversation. But the ability to put yourself in

00:26:19.960 the shoes of either the person you're speaking to or the person that, if you want to have a discussion,

00:26:23.900 play devil's advocate, if you both agree, of the person on the other side of that fence,

00:26:28.000 even if you strongly disagree with them, it's something that not a lot of people could do,

00:26:32.260 which is interesting. But I also think another thing, Professor, that I would love to get your

00:26:37.660 thoughts on is it's a, you know, obviously I'm a big advocate for free speech, but I'm also

00:26:43.800 very critical of misinformation, malinformation, disinformation.

00:26:46.840 So I think it's the information they're being fed, like someone that's sitting in Israel, 0.94

00:26:54.300 watching Israeli TV, and someone that's sitting in, in, in, in Palestine, or let's go to Ukraine,

00:27:00.320 Russia, or even in the US, someone that's sitting, turning on CNN or MSNBC every day versus someone

00:27:04.640 turning on Fox every day. They're being exposed to a very different story of the same fact.

00:27:12.360 So I think it's, it's, God, you know, there's certain information that comes in certain,

00:27:19.080 you have certain belief and confirmation bias, you just kind of keep taking in that information,

00:27:22.780 plus the theory of mind of being unable, maybe for that same reason, of being put, putting

00:27:28.620 yourself in the other person's shoes. Do you think it's a bit of both?

00:27:31.780 Yeah, I mean, that, that makes perfect sense to me. And by the way, I, as I was reading,

00:27:35.040 because you're, you're talking about, you know, your, your, your absolute, your absolutist stance

00:27:40.920 on free speech. And that really resonated with me, because as, as you know, as you might have

00:27:45.300 heard me mention before, Mario, look, I'm Jewish with the, you know, very tragic background in

00:27:51.320 Lebanon and so on. And yet I support the right of Holocaust deniers to deny the Holocaust, right?

00:27:57.320 I mean, it'd be difficult to imagine, you know, a, a, a malinformation, misinformation,

00:28:05.400 disinformation that is more egregious than that, right? It's the negation of a historical fact where

00:28:10.280 millions of people were exterminated like little mosquitoes, but yet in a free society, you have

00:28:16.340 to allow for that. So then hopefully the way that I can beat your, your nonsense, if you're the 0.95

00:28:21.360 Holocaust denier, is that hopefully I can have better ideas that maybe I can get you to, to flip

00:28:27.180 and come my way, or maybe the audience can flip my way. Are you that much of an absolutist? Or do

00:28:32.900 you believe that there is some stuff that is so egregious that no, no, we have to step in and not

00:28:38.440 allow it? I don't know the answer. I, I, I get asked this a lot and I'm still, and I know others are

00:28:48.900 doing the same, including Elon and the CEO of rumble who were big supporters of as well. Um, it's a very

00:28:56.640 delicate line. I'm in your camp. I think if someone wants to deny the Holocaust, they can 0.97

00:29:03.400 delight, deny any historical fact. If they have the right to deny the earth is round, I'm like,

00:29:10.100 let them deny the Holocaust. Let them deny that there's cars out there. Let them look out the 0.96

00:29:15.380 window and say, all these people, they're actually lizards that control society. Let them deny any

00:29:21.080 historical fact that even these, the species out there outside my window are humans. I think when

00:29:25.900 you start, um, what happens is what I've noticed is when you prevent people from being able to speak

00:29:32.640 whatever it is they want, it starts building up and then there's conspiracies come up out of that.

00:29:38.280 It's like, why can't I deny the Holocaust? Now, this is something I've never talked about. I've never 0.89

00:29:41.860 discussed the Holocaust. I've never even dug into it. I'm like, it happened. It's tragic. I've seen the 0.51

00:29:46.240 movies. I've, I've researched it as a kid. I've learned it in school and I've kind of, I haven't gone down that.

00:29:50.260 I'm sure I'm going to go down that rabbit hole someday in one of my shows, one of my interviews.

00:29:54.900 Um, but I just don't find any good reason to deny the Holocaust. Now, if you come to me, say, 0.98

00:29:59.500 hold on, there's a, there's another side of the story. There's actually a reason why

00:30:02.600 denying the Holocaust has negative repercussions. And if I'm convinced, I'm convinced, but I think 1.00

00:30:07.580 my stance on, on free speech, I think I'm going to follow, you know, footsteps again on that one

00:30:13.220 because he's done it right. He's like, Hey, I think everyone should have a voice. Um, the only

00:30:19.140 limits that I want to have are the things that break the law and everything else is free game,

00:30:24.780 but I'm in a different position. I don't have a social media platform. A social media platform,

00:30:29.500 doctor, is a, is a town hall. It's a place where people can meet and talk. I have a platform. So

00:30:34.200 I have a responsibility now. So if I give an idiot the mic, they're spewing hatred. They're just 1.00

00:30:40.660 spewing disgusting stuff. Then people tell me, but you have a responsibility as a platform. You can't

00:30:45.620 have millions of people listen to something, you know, is false and you know, will bring negativity

00:30:49.700 to the world. So how do I though? How do I prevent this negativity from, from, from amplifying,

00:30:57.460 but not becoming the arbiter of what people are allowed to talk about. And then my conclusion was

00:31:03.680 the way I, and I'm still, you know, kind of training that line. I make mistakes is that if there's an idiot 1.00

00:31:09.160 spreading hatred, I have an intellectual pushing back in a very, in a right speaker. So I'm like, 0.99

00:31:14.960 I tell my team, cause I have a team 24 seven during the space, 13 panelists. I have a crazy

00:31:19.400 guy, sonny, he's a really good speaker. He's experiencing stuff that's really negative.

00:31:23.340 I'm like, guys just immediately get me someone that can counter whatever that person's saying

00:31:26.960 to balance it out. So that's been my way. Instead of silencing one side, I balance it out with

00:31:33.060 the opposing side and then let the people make their decision. I think people are smarter than

00:31:36.900 what credit we give. Do you, do you feel that that approach that you're taking is one that

00:31:41.840 maybe Pierce Morgan provides on his show? Because he often brings people that are diametrically

00:31:49.180 opposed on really contentious issues. And he tries, I think, to be exactly that fair-minded by

00:31:54.860 offering both camps a platform. Would you see that? Would you say that that's the Pierce Morgan

00:31:59.000 approach? Yes. I'm very, very similar, but different. Pierce Morgan, incredibly good at what

00:32:05.600 he does. Incredibly articulate. But he has his, he's the one that pushes back and he has

00:32:12.220 his own opinion. When you're the one that has an opinion, even when you try to balance

00:32:16.040 it, it's your bias without you realizing will start having an effect. So what I try to do

00:32:21.140 is I push myself, which I'm very boring because I'm very boring than interesting. You might

00:32:26.420 find me interesting, but most people might find me boring because people want someone that

00:32:29.760 takes a stand. They want someone who has an opinion. It's more exciting. It's more interesting

00:32:33.700 to follow someone that stands free Palestine or someone that's, you know, Zionist to the bone 0.82

00:32:41.320 because they stand for something. But when I'm, when I'm someone that's like so vanilla that I

00:32:48.160 actually have no opinion. I don't think I need, I can't, I don't even have the right to have an

00:32:52.340 opinion because there's so much I don't know. So I just become a person that asks a lot of

00:32:56.440 questions. So I'm more of a facilitator than a, than a person that has an opinion. But I've

00:33:02.360 learned to really play devil's advocate. Since we talked about me being Lebanese, doctor,

00:33:06.380 you know how polarized Lebanon is. And as a child, I've seen that. My, my family was really

00:33:11.360 split. You know, you know, I was born Christian. I'm not religious now. And one of my family,

00:33:15.480 side of my family was very pro one Christian sect and the other was very Christian. They were about

00:33:22.540 to fight with each other. I'm like, wow. And then my, my mom, my other side of the family

00:33:26.360 was even a whole different political sector. They're all fighting each other. I'm like, wow,

00:33:29.780 that's insane. And that's how I learned to never have an opinion and never be the idiot that gets 1.00

00:33:35.800 fooled. Yeah. You know, I, uh, this idea of, of this orgiastic tribalism, I often tell the story 1.00

00:33:42.980 that you can walk in, in areas in Montreal where it's hardcore Lubavitch, like meaning, uh, you know, 0.98

00:33:50.120 Orthodox Jews, you know, with the full garb, but even amongst that group. So not only are they Jewish,

00:33:56.160 not only are they extremely religious, not only are they Orthodox, but even within that camp,

00:34:01.440 they can find a way to hate each other. So there's the, the Hungarian, to your point, 1.00

00:34:06.060 you're now in Hungary. There's the Hungarian gang that puts up their socks over their pants 1.00

00:34:10.980 and they would never be caught dead marrying off their daughters to those asshole Polish Jews 1.00

00:34:16.160 who look exactly the same. And so the ability of the human mind to create an us versus them, 1.00

00:34:22.720 you know, worldview is, is infinite. It's, it's, it's a regrettable feature of the architecture of

00:34:28.120 the human mind. Uh, one thing I noticed by the way, in looking at your, maybe I shouldn't even

00:34:32.540 mention this because I know that some of the folks who listen to you are not big fans of mine. I,

00:34:37.260 apparently it turns out that both you and I are Mossad agents, but I've never seen you at any of them.

00:34:43.060 I've never seen you at the Mossad retreats where I go.

00:34:48.060 I don't, I didn't know. Yes, I've been a, I'm a, I'm a Hamas sympathizer and a, and a,

00:34:54.840 and a Mossad agent. I'm a Russian spy, Ukrainian spy. I'm an, I'm, I'm for a period until I started

00:35:02.140 doing my video show when I was just faces. Um, there were rumors, like genuine rumors that I was not

00:35:07.860 even real. Um, I've been investigated by the FBI, the SEC, the CIA. I can't travel to the UK,

00:35:14.840 which I'm going to go there again soon. I can't travel to the US, which I'll be there again

00:35:18.080 tomorrow. And so, yeah, there's a lot of rumors about me. Um, we laugh about it, but because I,

00:35:24.200 when you get into the political world, it's a scary world. When you start covering things like,

00:35:30.020 um, you know, when, when you have certain people on your stage, when you have,

00:35:33.840 when you cover certain topics, um, and you break certain stories, um, yeah, it is, it is a scary

00:35:41.640 world. Then there's obviously the idiots that just make up conspiracies, but then there's also 0.99

00:35:46.120 people that start believing those conspiracies. I was at one stage on a fatwa list, people wanting 1.00

00:35:50.380 to target me during the guys of war. I was also on a, um, there was, um, some Israelis in Canada 0.88

00:35:56.960 that were, there was a recording that was leaked of them wanting me to travel to Canada to assassinate

00:36:01.000 me and they were planning how to do it. Uh, that went viral a year ago, whatever. And so, yeah,

00:36:06.140 I've, I've had my face share across the board, uh, doctor, but, uh, I've never seen you at those

00:36:10.840 massage meetings either. Do you, I mean, do you, have you developed a thick skin because it is

00:36:18.420 part of the nature of your job or is this something that you've had to work hard at in order for things

00:36:25.200 to not be sticking in your mind and say, cause I mean, I think I've got a pretty thick skin,

00:36:29.960 but I'm also a human being. And when you see somebody saying such horrible things about you,

00:36:35.140 sometimes you get sucked into the trap and you're pissed off. Sometimes you reply,

00:36:39.180 do you have very good discipline in terms of how to navigate all of the nonsense that people throw

00:36:44.000 at you? As long as it doesn't cross certain lines, when it crosses the line of impacting my business.

00:36:49.720 So I went a year ago, I went through NBC out of all places. NBC did a hit piece on me a year ago.

00:36:55.240 And, um, I remember that day it came out. It was like, uh, the FBI and SEC respond to complaints

00:37:02.080 about Mario Norfolk. And it was by a journalist that has a history of attacking Elon. And I was

00:37:07.360 filming a TV show at the time. And I, the hit piece came out five minutes before I started filming.

00:37:12.720 I have to put my phone away. It's a horrible day. And I remember meeting, um, I met in person,

00:37:17.100 Eric, um, Eric Weinstein and, and, um, Anthony Scaramucci, cause they were both there in LA.

00:37:22.360 And I asked for their advice because they both had their face here. They both told me Mario will

00:37:26.500 pass. And when you go through one, your skin becomes a lot thicker. It was very tough at the

00:37:31.360 time. Later, I debunked it. It turns out there was no SEC and the FBI was just one ex FBI agent.

00:37:37.200 So it was all debunked. The story had no, no, no, uh, not, no, no meat to it whatsoever. But

00:37:42.880 I didn't, I didn't, I didn't care about it. I never care about it, but it impacted my business.

00:37:47.720 So because I'm in, I'm in crypto, when people see FBI, I see, especially after

00:37:52.160 FTX, everyone freaked out. They didn't want to see the headline. It just says respond to

00:37:56.880 complaints. I can make up any complaint. The FBI will respond. Hey, we're not interested

00:38:00.740 in your complaint. Aha. They responded. That's how it's true. And then, and even that didn't

00:38:05.600 happen in reality, but that's what the title means. Many people take it, take it out of

00:38:09.660 proportion. Oh yeah. The FBI is investigating Mario, et cetera. So that was my hit piece that

00:38:13.800 hurt my business that really, really got me. And the ones that get me now, and they've

00:38:18.800 been happening, um, whenever there's a flare up in somewhere in the world, whether it's

00:38:23.400 Ukraine or, or U S politics right now, it's, it's, it's Israel, Gaza, uh, Lebanon, Ukraine,

00:38:30.740 Russia, and Pakistan and Brazil and the U S because of election. So these are the areas that kind

00:38:36.720 of flaring up for me. And I go through, when it starts impacting me or my family and my

00:38:41.040 friends, that's an issue. When my team members start getting death threats or, or close ones

00:38:46.380 start getting threats. Um, these are red lines for me, but if it's people attacking me online

00:38:51.180 has no impact. You don't care. Uh, go for a walk. Gotcha. Good, good strategy. Uh, are there

00:38:59.620 any guests? I mean, your reach is astounding as you, as we mentioned earlier, you can reach,

00:39:05.260 uh, top academics to top politicians to, to anybody pretty much. Is the, are, is there two

00:39:11.620 or three people that you'd say, Oh my, before you answer, I'll give you mine. I actually mentioned

00:39:17.840 this on, on Joe Rogan, not this last time, maybe two times ago. So he had asked me, what about,

00:39:23.780 you know, would you be interested in speaking to like, uh, entertainment celebrities? And I'm not

00:39:27.660 really that interested, but then I said, you know, there are two guys that I would love to,

00:39:30.560 to have chats with. Uh, one, I think of course you would know Clint Eastwood because I grew up

00:39:36.660 in Lebanon before I learned how to speak English, Mario. I was watching the spaghetti Westerns of

00:39:42.940 Sergio Leone in the 1960s. And even though I didn't understand English, I see this guy, it's always,

00:39:49.160 you know, Clint Eastwood comes into the town. He's the guy who's the, he's the lone wolf who's going to

00:39:53.800 set everything straight. He's going to kill the bad guys. And as a young boy, uh, I was like, yeah, 1.00

00:39:59.440 I want to be this guy. Right. And so Clint Eastwood is still alive. I would love to speak with him.

00:40:04.800 The second one I suggested, uh, who unfortunately recently passed away, although his son,

00:40:10.040 after he saw me on Joe Rogan reached out and said, you know what, I'm going to organize it for you to

00:40:14.760 meet my, uh, father. His name is Burt Bacharach. He's, uh, a musical producer who many of the famous

00:40:23.100 songs of the sixties, seventies, and eighties were written and composed by him and his partner.

00:40:27.940 And I thought he'd be a great sort of creative musical genius to have on. And then one other

00:40:32.600 person from academia who is still alive, I'm not sure if you would know him is the economist Thomas,

00:40:39.200 Thomas Sowell. Do you know, have you heard of him? I have not. Thomas Sowell is a, is an incredible guy.

00:40:46.160 He, I mean, he's the type of guy that you can go back in the sixties when I was probably not born or

00:40:52.700 in diapers and he was hitting the walksters before there was the term walkism. He was going after the 0.99

00:40:59.240 radical feminists and all these idiots. So he's a very disciplined, you know, only reason, only data. 1.00

00:41:05.200 He's still alive, but he's become a recluse at this point. He's 94 years old. So those would be

00:41:09.660 some of my guys. What is your sort of two or three trio that you would love to have that you haven't

00:41:14.920 had?

00:41:15.040 By the way, just a quick, very quick question. I'll ask you yours. You said before you spoke

00:41:19.600 English. So what were the, as a child and as a Lebanese Jew, do you speak Hebrew, Arabic, both?

00:41:25.480 Right. Great question. No. So Arabic is my mother tongue by far. I only spoke Arabic. Now in Lebanon,

00:41:32.380 as you may or may not know, because now it's a bit changed, but when I was growing up in the sixties

00:41:36.800 and seventies, usually the educated class learned French along with, with, with, with, uh, with

00:41:43.560 Arabic. So for example, I don't French, I don't French, not Arabic as a child. Oh, you spoke. Okay.

00:41:48.260 So I went, for example, to a place called Licee de Jeune Fille, which is like the school of little

00:41:54.520 girls, even though it's not, it wasn't only, it was mixed. Uh, and so I learned first Arabic,

00:42:01.300 then French and was fluent in French Hebrew. I learned it in the context as, as you said,

00:42:07.340 because we're Jewish. And then eventually you learn, uh, your, you know, your, you have to

00:42:11.140 study for your bar mitzvah. You have to learn how to read Hebrew and so on, but it wasn't something

00:42:15.660 that was this, you know, spoken all the time at home. And then English was my fourth language,

00:42:20.420 which I only learned when we moved to Canada at the age of 11. So, so that answers your question.

00:42:27.020 Okay. But thank you for asking. Yeah. Um, so, so, um, in terms of people I would like

00:42:32.660 to meet, I'd mention, I'll mention two names, actually four names. Um, two of them are either

00:42:43.220 confirmed or about to be confirmed, but I would love to interview, um, president Putin, president

00:42:52.080 Zelensky, president Biden, um, vice president Kamala and president Trump. So as I said, like,

00:43:01.740 you know, a couple of those already in progress or confirmed and, um, about, you know, will

00:43:07.280 be happening soon. Now, the reason I'd like to interview those people is because there are

00:43:14.000 some discussions that could have an actual impact on how things, so, you know, we can

00:43:23.620 have discussions that allow people to understand the situation and have a relatively small to

00:43:28.200 medium impact. Then you can have those one-off discussions that could change the world. So

00:43:34.740 for example, I'll give you an example. If I have president Putin on stage in a space and

00:43:40.980 a few leaders from the West and they're having a discussion on how a peace deal would look

00:43:46.040 like, what do you think that would do to whatever administration is, is in the U S

00:43:50.800 whether it's Kamala or Trump or current Biden administration, when in a discussion viewed

00:43:55.580 by 50 million people, I'm assuming what the reach would be for such an interview or such

00:44:00.920 a space where president Putin and XYZ business leaders in Europe, India, the U S are discussing

00:44:14.920 the details. And I'd love to have Zelensky, president Zelensky, but Zelensky would never

00:44:17.980 come on with Putin on stage. I don't think, I don't know if president Putin will come on

00:44:22.980 with Zelensky, with president Zelensky. But, um, different business leaders from Ukraine as

00:44:27.920 well, if, if any would like to come and then talking about how a PC would look like. And

00:44:33.760 that goes viral. Then the administration is in a position to be like, all right, we had

00:44:39.520 these leaders from our country discuss openly what a PC would look like. And they kind of

00:44:45.480 met somewhere in the middle. So now the world's like, hold on, there is a possibility for peace.

00:44:51.640 It might include some things that many of us don't want to see, but it might save thousands

00:44:57.160 of lives. Uh, discussions like this, now a discussion with Trump, president Trump or president Biden

00:45:03.980 would probably not go much, not go far. So unless I have them both together on stage,

00:45:08.560 they'll be saying, and after the election where they can be honest and sincere. Um, but the

00:45:13.460 discussion, I put that one aside, president Putin, president Zelensky, prime minister Netanyahu,

00:45:18.800 um, um, um, Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah. Those are, those are discussions. Those are

00:45:26.920 discussions. I would be, these are the things that really fulfill me because I know for a

00:45:32.800 fact that if I have the leader of Hezbollah or I have prime minister Netanyahu on stage

00:45:38.940 separately, of course, they'll never be on stage together, having a sincere discussion of what,

00:45:43.960 because when I have a discussion in my spaces, you probably see it's a very sincere, it's like

00:45:47.640 a really casual chat. You know, Joe Rogan's another level, but it's like, that's the type

00:45:51.740 of discussion, like just a very free flowing discussion about topics that are extremely

00:45:55.640 sensitive. And it's like prime minister, like Mr. Nasrallah, or I think Sayyid Nasrallah is

00:46:01.240 like, what would you, what would it take for you to stop attacking Israel? What would it

00:46:05.400 take for you to integrate your military? If Israel does this, what would you do? Okay, 0.88

00:46:09.060 but what if Israel does that? Or prime minister Netanyahu, if, if Sayyid Nasrallah or Hezbollah

00:46:14.220 do this, would you be okay with it? Like, what is your red line? What? And then you have this

00:46:19.840 free flowing discussion. I'm trying to get sincere, like behind the scenes, of course,

00:46:23.240 they can only go so far, but those sincere discussions I genuinely think will have, will

00:46:27.500 at least, because my audience is so wide. I have Israeli journalists and Palestinian journalists

00:46:32.360 listening to my show. Like I've worked so hard to gain the respect of all sides.

00:46:35.400 of any issue. They both love me and hate me. They love me because I cover their side,

00:46:39.000 but they hate me because I also cover the other side. That means if I, like, there's not going

00:46:43.700 to be, there's no other time where Palestinians could listen to an interview, like attentively 0.99

00:46:49.640 to an interview with prime minister Netanyahu, or Israelis would attentively listen to an interview

00:46:54.000 with Sayyid Nasrallah, same for Ukraine, Russia, or any other country. These are, and you

00:46:58.900 see how I'm taking so long to answer the question, because it's, I'm very passionate about

00:47:02.680 this. And I think, and probably one, one I'd love to get your comments on. It's fascinating

00:47:08.460 how far dialogue takes humanity. When you have two sides that hate each other, just sit

00:47:13.640 down and talk.

00:47:14.860 Oh, or just even, so this story, you'll forgive me. Well, not, I'm, you probably haven't heard

00:47:19.860 me. Do you know my juju story? Does that ring a bell?

00:47:23.200 I do not. I'd love to hear it.

00:47:24.360 Okay. Some of the listeners may know it. So apologies if it's repetitive, but it exactly speaks to

00:47:29.400 your point about the importance of dialogue and not dehumanizing the others, right? I mean,

00:47:34.140 the Israeli lives and live in a camp where there's the really nasty people over there. And the other 1.00

00:47:39.180 side lives over there where the nasty Jews live over here. And we never interact. So we demonize 1.00

00:47:43.740 the other. So I remember when I was a first semester doctoral student, I studied at Cornell

00:47:48.580 University. And because, you know, I'm Arabic, Lebanese, I was a very, very good soccer player. So it was

00:47:54.660 easy for me to connect with a bunch of Lebanese guys. I mean, most were Lebanese, but not all of them.

00:47:59.280 But they were all Arabic. And we would play soccer. And I mean, they respected me because

00:48:04.700 I was a very good soccer player and also because I was Arabic and so on. On one day, one of the

00:48:11.820 gentlemen asks me out for a coffee. So we go out for a coffee. And at one point we're sitting

00:48:17.080 there and he looks at me sort of very pensively and he goes, you know, God, I really like you.

00:48:23.300 And I said, oh, why do you? I won't even mention his name, even though it's not as though

00:48:28.240 anybody would know who it is. I said, oh, why do you say that as if you're surprised?

00:48:33.300 Is it, oh, is it because I'm Jewish? And then he goes, no, but come on. I mean, you're not

00:48:38.620 a Jew Jew. I said, no, no, I'm a Jew Jew Jew Jew. He goes, no, no, but come on. You know

00:48:44.420 what I mean? It's because in his mind, the Jew does not speak Arabic. The Jew does not play 0.99

00:48:51.120 soccer well. The Jew is not somebody that I can like. And somehow by us connecting and becoming 1.00

00:48:57.100 friends, it was damaging the exemplar that had been built in his head for many years. And so that

00:49:03.760 the only way that there could be non-cognitive inconsistency in his head is to say, but come on,

00:49:10.840 wink, wink, you're not really a Jew. So that's exactly speaks to your point, which is once you 0.96

00:49:15.080 get people together and they're eating hummus together and they have the exact same aspirations

00:49:19.980 and they love the same things and they roughly hate the same things. Suddenly all that demonization

00:49:24.680 goes away. So is this, is this the way we win the Nobel prize? You and I, we need to invite

00:49:29.740 them both for hummus?

00:49:32.160 Yeah, I thought, I'm very naive. And at least I was. And one thing I thought would happen

00:49:39.140 is that with the advent of the internet, the days of war between Russia and Ukraine behind

00:49:44.200 us, I just couldn't imagine like Russia and Ukraine do business together. Russians, Ukrainians,

00:49:48.620 they're like one people. You go to Dubai, I live in Dubai, it's a safe place for me. Everyone's

00:49:53.520 one. They sit down together, Russian, Ukrainian, Arab, Jews, Israeli, American, Chinese. They'll

00:50:00.940 do business. It's a city of business, making money. No one cares who you are as long as you

00:50:05.480 write the check. And I've lived like this all my life. And I just think, it's just sad to

00:50:13.700 see that the, the RFK talks, I've talked a lot to RFK and I'm going to meet him again.

00:50:19.240 And, and he, he blamed the social media algorithms for that. It's that tribalism, if anything,

00:50:26.020 became even, no, I wouldn't say became worse, but it continued despite the internet, despite

00:50:30.600 us being connected. We're connected, but we're not connected.

00:50:34.380 Right.

00:50:35.380 We're in our own little echo chambers that are exasperated by the social media algorithms.

00:50:40.280 Not the social media company's fault, because they just want you to stay there. They want

00:50:43.620 you to, they want retention for retention. They got to feed you the stop confirmation

00:50:46.620 box that you want to hear. And it's just, it's just sad to see that. And it's just sad

00:50:51.300 to see that on, on, on a map for someone that's just innocent and clueless about, I love people.

00:50:55.700 I love when I meet someone, doctor, that has no idea about anything that doesn't barely even

00:51:00.580 knows what Israel or Lebanon is. And you go to them and you go, you go, they got to take 1.00

00:51:05.040 him to Beirut and say, Hey, let's go to Jerusalem. And let's put it on your map. And then like,

00:51:12.980 Oh, okay, cool. I can get, I can take it. It's only an hour away, like taxi there. And

00:51:17.100 that naivete is beautiful. But it's crazy to imagine, like tell them, no, you know what?

00:51:21.460 There's actually a war between those two countries. If you go to Israel, you can't come back to

00:51:25.140 Lebanon. It's illegal. You can't go to Israel. There's no direct flights, even though they're

00:51:29.400 neighboring countries. Um, I, it's just, it's, uh, you know, it's something that you spend

00:51:35.780 a lifetime understanding. You, you, it's, it's, I like how you said the, you know, you like

00:51:40.620 the naivete of someone who doesn't know any better. I've often argued that one of my biggest

00:51:45.400 fears in life, you don't have any children, do you? No. So one of the biggest fears in my

00:51:51.320 life is for my children to grow up. And then I argue that I would lose the protection

00:51:59.020 of their innocence. So exactly to your point, right? Because, right. I mean, I'm dealing

00:52:04.680 in a nasty world out there. I mean, not everybody's nasty. Most people are lovely, but you know,

00:52:09.220 you're out there, you're fighting, you're trying to convince people, you're writing books, you're

00:52:12.860 writing papers, you're getting rejected here, you're getting accepted there. The world is

00:52:16.860 one big, you know, push, but then you come home and then you've got these wide eyed, innocent

00:52:22.320 children who are now growing up, who are teenagers. So some of that naivete is going away.

00:52:27.220 And so I kind of live in perpetual fear of not being protected by that naivete. So if

00:52:32.740 you ever, inshallah, have any children, remember those words, your children's innocence protects

00:52:38.420 you from the ugliness of the world.

00:52:41.820 I am some of my favorite people in this world. I'm remembering over the years are people that

00:52:47.540 have nothing to do with our world. They just want to dance or they just want to go out and

00:52:52.440 have fun. And they don't, they don't, Russia, Ukraine are on war, really? Millie's dying.

00:52:58.260 That's so sad. And that's it. I wish it stops. And that's it. But as, you know, as someone

00:53:04.620 who's been privileged to have, to really like, I genuinely, you can come to me with three arms,

00:53:09.520 two legs and believe whatever you want. I don't, I never, I just so don't care about what someone's

00:53:16.220 religion or culture or where they're from is. So much. I just, I, it doesn't even register in my

00:53:22.640 head. Oh, this person's an ex. I need to think, I need to put them in that bucket. Like my brain is

00:53:28.280 not even wired that way, which I sometimes forget how rare it is. Um, I suspect that that's one of

00:53:34.160 the reasons why you've proven to be so successful, because it's exactly that, that allows these

00:53:40.400 diametrically opposed camps to somehow find the quote safe space in Mario. I mean, that's exactly

00:53:46.920 the secret. Yeah. And like, if I had to take one lesson from this and something you'd obviously

00:53:52.780 relate to, um, doctor is that, um, it sounds just very cheesy, but we have so much more in common.

00:54:00.800 Number one. And number two, there's two sides of multiple facets, but let's just say two sides to

00:54:06.120 every single coin you'd ever find on any topic, whatever it is, there's always an, an intriguing

00:54:13.780 intellectual other side of that coin. And that many people don't refuse to see. And you've given

00:54:19.720 the perfect example of how people kind of demonize a certain group. And you're like, I like the example

00:54:25.400 you gave, but you're not juju, like not juju, juju. You know what I mean? You're not juju, juju. It's

00:54:31.020 like, cause they've created that whole certain image. And when they see someone that's like a cognitive

00:54:34.620 dissonance, that he's someone that doesn't fit in that description, doesn't add up, but I like him,

00:54:39.360 but it doesn't add up. How can I make sense of this? It's like an error message in their brain.

00:54:45.980 Exactly. All right. Last question, because I could keep you here for many hours, but I want you to be

00:54:51.140 fresh and ready for president Novak tomorrow. And I know that you're ill, so I won't take more of your

00:54:55.960 time. Last question. Not that you need my platform to promote anything because you have a much bigger

00:55:01.220 platform. But are there any projects that you're currently working on? Oh, I'm working on a book.

00:55:07.600 I'm doing this that you'd like to use this opportunity to promote. Take it away, sir.

00:55:12.940 No, doctor. I love your content, to be honest. Like I've, as I've, obviously I'm interviewing you and I

00:55:18.060 like to do my homework on, on anyone I interview. I've been listening to your content, seeing you on

00:55:23.180 X a lot, but I've been listening to your interviews. The way you describe things is really fascinating.

00:55:28.800 So if anything, um, you know, I just want to, want to thank you for what you do. Um, you

00:55:34.960 know, I'm gonna, I know you've got a new book coming out next year as well. I do. Um, and

00:55:39.020 I'm, and I'm, I'm going through the, what's the, um, what was the book? Uh, the last one

00:55:44.560 you had, um, that, uh, I've been listening to a lot of, I haven't read the book yet.

00:55:47.980 The Parasitic Mind?

00:55:49.860 Parasitic Mind. It's one of the most fascinating, at least the interviews you've done on it, some

00:55:54.320 of the most fascinating discussions. Oh, thank you. And I articulated, articulated those very

00:55:58.420 polarizing issues. That's lovely. I know that you're going to, are we allowed to talk about

00:56:04.620 the trip you're, you're, you're coming here? Is that, is that okay? Oh, the Washington,

00:56:08.160 Washington, of course. So I know your team has reached out to me about us getting together

00:56:12.780 in person. So we could, we could do this offline, but hopefully we can make it work. I'm currently

00:56:17.300 in Montreal, not at Northwood. Uh, if we can make it work in person, that would be fantastic.

00:56:22.640 If not, we'll do it remotely. Mario, thank you so much for coming on. You're, you're an

00:56:27.220 inspiration to so many people who want to be entrepreneurs. You could start off with

00:56:31.460 nothing, right? There was no trajectory. You didn't go to a particular school to be speaking

00:56:35.580 tomorrow to president Novak. If you've got the grit, you've got the perseverance, you've

00:56:39.460 got a nice personality that people want to be around, which you have all those things.

00:56:43.500 Uh, you can be a success like, just like Mario. Thank you so much for coming on. Stay on the

00:56:47.480 line. We could say goodbye offline. I'll, I'll talk to you soon. Cheers.

00:56:51.060 Thank you, professor.

00:56:51.780 Thank you.

00:56:52.340 Thank you.

The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - September 27, 2024

My Chat with Mario Nawfal, Entrepreneur and Host of the Largest Spaces on X (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_715)

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