The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad

00:00:01.000 Hi, guys. This is Gatsat for the SAC Truth. Just came back from a family vacation to Portugal.

00:00:08.100 This is why I'm even more handsome than my usual self. Today, I have a fantastic guest

00:00:13.420 to spearhead the next group of guests. I've got Dr. Miriam Grossman, who is an MD. She's 0.72

00:00:20.880 a psychiatrist, child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist. Before I cede the floor to you,

00:00:26.980 Miriam, some of your previous books include Unprotected, A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals

00:00:32.920 How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student. That came out in 2007,

00:00:38.660 so you were already at the forefront of warning us. Then your other book, You're Teaching My

00:00:44.960 Children What? A Physician Exposes the Lies of Sex Ed and How They Harm Your Child. That came out

00:00:50.840 a few years after that. The book to be released tomorrow, we're all very excited by it,

00:00:56.680 Lost in Trans Nation. Love that title. A Child Psychiatrist's Guide out of the Madness. 1.00

00:01:04.180 Miriam, welcome. Please tell us what the book is about.

00:01:08.080 Well, thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor. I'm a fan of yours as well.

00:01:14.120 Well, yeah. Thank you for mentioning those previous books. It's important because I actually did warn

00:01:25.460 parents all the way back in 2009 of this dangerous belief system. I call it a belief system of

00:01:37.980 transgenderism and I warned parents that this was already baked into our sexuality education system

00:01:50.660 and that even all the way back then in 2009 and earlier. So that's before the current crop,

00:01:58.900 most of the current crop of kids who are now impacted by the social hysteria were even born.

00:02:07.740 And unfortunately, it took this catastrophe that we are currently in for people to begin waking up

00:02:16.780 and realizing, hey, maybe we shouldn't be telling our kids that there's such a thing as being born in

00:02:22.260 the wrong body. Maybe there's really no medical or scientific basis to that idea. And so my current

00:02:32.620 book is based on my experience of the past few years in which I've been seeing these kids who are

00:02:40.100 distressed about their bodies, their sex, being a boy or a girl and their parents. And I've talked to

00:02:51.140 hundreds of parents who have now gone through this and they have all told me that they are blindsided by

00:02:58.520 it. They did not expect. It's the last thing they expected. In fact, in many cases for their child to come

00:03:07.000 to them, their boy to come and say, you know, mom, dad, I'm not a boy, I'm a girl. I want, you don't have

00:03:13.480 a son, you have a daughter. I want you to use this new name and these pronouns. And I want to be placed

00:03:19.120 on puberty blockers and estrogen. And parents tell me that they were just shocked. They didn't understand

00:03:26.740 where this was coming from. They got up and made an appointment at a gender clinic. They go into the

00:03:34.140 gender clinic and the gender clinic just rubber stamps the child's new identity. No deep psychiatric 0.84

00:03:42.780 evaluation. No close look at the history. Does this child have autism? Is this child suffering from

00:03:52.760 depression, anxiety, ADHD? Is there a history of trauma? All these basic fundamental questions

00:04:01.520 that we are supposed to ask every single patient who walks in our offices. And yet this was not

00:04:09.160 done. Their child was placed in the driver's seat. And whatever the child requested, whether it's

00:04:17.980 blockers or whatever pronouns, parents are supposed to go along with it or else. The or else meaning,

00:04:27.980 as you probably know what I'm going to say, right? And your audience knows what I'm going to say,

00:04:33.540 which is that parents are threatened. If they don't go with this narrative and accept their son as

00:04:40.620 their daughter, their daughter as their son, well, their child very well might commit suicide.

00:04:48.140 Wow. So, okay.

00:04:49.320 And so these parents...

00:04:50.620 Go ahead, finish your point.

00:04:51.820 I just want to say these parents are in a terrible position. It's a Sophie's Choice kind

00:04:58.220 of a thing. Because each option is bad. The option of resisting the new identity might lead their

00:05:11.820 led to believe to suicide. But the option of accepting the new persona and celebrating it,

00:05:22.800 which is what they're told to do, and saying goodbye and burying, you know, burying the idea of

00:05:29.540 that they have a son or a daughter, that's also unacceptable. Because they know it's true. 0.99

00:05:36.860 And so that's the position they're in.

00:05:41.180 So what...

00:05:41.600 The book...

00:05:42.520 Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, finish your point now.

00:05:44.220 No, I'm sorry.

00:05:45.360 Yeah, just, it'd be better if we go back and forth as quick. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

00:05:49.980 Finish your point.

00:05:50.680 No, we can go back and forth.

00:05:52.220 Okay, so what I was going to say is, so we can agree, and certainly as a psychiatrist,

00:05:56.880 you'd concede that, you know, we've known that there is such a thing as gender dysphoria.

00:06:01.080 I think the key issue is that if we understood it to be one in 10,000 or whatever the operative

00:06:08.180 number is, it certainly can't be that 40% of Brown students, Brown university students

00:06:14.360 are now suddenly LGB, right? So no one is contesting the fact that a human being could

00:06:22.860 suffer from gender dysphoria, correct? 0.70

00:06:24.640 Absolutely. Gender dysphoria is real, it is debilitating, and we've known about it for, 1.00

00:06:31.600 you know, at least 100 years.

00:06:33.700 So the question is that it's become a social contagion, and the question then becomes,

00:06:40.200 what accelerated that? So in the context of the framework of my last book, The Parasitic Mind,

00:06:45.800 as you may or may not know, what I argue in that book, having been a professor for now almost

00:06:49.980 30 years, is that there is a set of parasitic ideas, which I call idea pathogens, of which

00:06:55.940 trans activism would be one, social constructivism, right? Everything is due to a social construction 0.99

00:07:01.220 would be another one. Biophobia, the fear of using biology to explain human affairs would

00:07:06.640 be another one. And so what I try to do in my book is argue, well, what makes these idea pathogens

00:07:13.380 so alluring that they can then, you know, be internalized by people and spread. So from your

00:07:19.900 perspective, what is it that caused the trans activism that we see today? What is the catalyst

00:07:26.080 of all this?

00:07:27.180 Okay, sure. I want to just go back one moment to something that you said. For sure, there is such

00:07:33.280 a thing as gender dysphoria, an intense discomfort with one's physically sexed body. And those

00:07:42.640 individuals are extremely rare. As you mentioned, I mean, up until 10 or 15 years ago, the data

00:07:51.200 that we had was so scarce, because these individuals were so rare, one in many tens of thousands of

00:07:57.980 people. However, I think it's important to state that even if a person has intense gender dysphoria,

00:08:07.020 and they decide to live as the opposite sex, it does not mean that they actually are the opposite

00:08:14.760 sex. And I think that's important to say. You know, we have a physical reality here. And I think it's

00:08:25.580 dangerous to try and escape that physical reality and say that what you feel like you are in your mind

00:08:35.020 means that that's what you are, because where is the end to that? I mean, I love Italy. I love Italian

00:08:43.180 food. I would love to speak it. I mean, am I Italian? No, there's no way that I'm Italian. I wish that I

00:08:50.840 had blue eyes. Blue eyes is more beautiful. I identify as a blue eyed person. Does that give me blue eyes?

00:08:56.620 No. God, I think that that is an important point to make. And I don't know how you feel about it. But

00:09:03.660 especially now, when we are, as you're getting to this idea of the pathogens, you know, ideas that

00:09:12.300 are pathogens, and I agree with you, that kids from the earliest age are being told that you can't know

00:09:19.420 if someone is a boy or a girl unless you ask them. Okay, that is, that is when you take that idea 0.98

00:09:28.380 that you are, you, you actually are who you feel yourself to be, that the end result is, is, is that

00:09:38.080 you have to ask people if they are male or female, and you have to ask them their pronouns, and that their

00:09:44.480 physical biological reality is insignificant. Yeah, amazing. So, so do you think, I mean, I'm asking you, I

00:09:52.620 don't know if that that would be a speculative response you're giving, or maybe you actually have the data as a

00:09:56.720 practicing psychiatrist. Do you think that many of the ideologues behind the trans activist movement are coming

00:10:04.940 from a noble place? Or is there some sort of nefarious Dr. Evil, you know, angle to it? And the reason I'm saying

00:10:13.720 this, before you even answer, let, let me give you what I argue in the parasitic mind. So, I argue that

00:10:19.180 what, the commonality across all of the idea pathogens that I discuss in the book is that they

00:10:26.760 start off with a noble cause, which then, if you like, metamorphosizes into lunacy in support of that

00:10:35.340 original, you know, so if we have to murder, murder and rape truth in the service of that original

00:10:41.400 noble cause, then so be it. And so, let me contextualize it with a specific example.

00:10:46.720 Social constructivism, as you know, Miriam, is the idea that everything is due to a social

00:10:51.100 construction. We're born, you know, empty slate, and then it's only the unique trajectory of our lives

00:10:57.020 that makes us who we are. Now, that premise, while fully incorrect, is rooted in a noble, hopeful,

00:11:04.860 you know, ethos, which is, I'd love to think that my child could be the next Lionel Messi,

00:11:09.980 and the next Michael Jordan, or the next Albert Einstein, that there is no innate biological

00:11:16.440 differences in potentiality. We're all born equal. So, that original hopeful message, completely rooted

00:11:23.580 in nonsense, starts off, at least, with a non-nefarious, noble reason. So, is that what's

00:11:30.180 happening with trans activism, which is, we want to liberate people from the shackles of their genitalia,

00:11:35.620 or is it something more nefarious? You know, that's a great question. It's a very intellectual

00:11:42.800 question, so I'm not surprised that you're coming to me with that question. I'm going to answer it.

00:11:49.520 I do want to say, though, that this book, my book, Lost in Transnation, it is not an intellectual

00:11:59.180 book. It is written for everyday moms and dads. You do not need a PhD. It is a guide out of the

00:12:09.580 madness. I do explain the history of these ideas, and that's where I'm going to touch on answering you

00:12:15.620 right now. But overall, it really is a very practical guide to how to manage this and how

00:12:22.760 prevent it from entering your home. So, to answer your question, you know, the original idea that

00:12:32.240 you are not your biological sex, you are the social construct of what has been projected onto you by

00:12:41.560 society came from John Money in 1957. He coined this term gender identity. He had his own gender

00:12:51.880 dysphoria. He himself was uncomfortable being a man, which is fascinating. So, he came up with a

00:13:01.640 theory, and of course, this was decades before we had mapped out the human genome. This is decades

00:13:07.360 before we can look at the chromosomes and see that the Y chromosome, which only men have, boys and men

00:13:14.180 have, is teeming with genes that are unique to men. So, back then, it was feasible with the science that

00:13:22.320 we knew at that time to propose that everything was just projected from society onto a little kid

00:13:29.100 before the age of three, the pink blanket, the blue blanket, the dolls, the toys, etc., etc.,

00:13:36.380 the expectations. So, was John Money coming from a good place?

00:13:44.800 I think that he was coming from a place of solving his own emotional issues and wanting to be as unlike

00:13:53.120 as his father as possible. His father was an abusive, raging alcoholic who used to beat him and kill 0.93

00:14:01.920 animals and beat up his mother. So, yeah, I mean, John Money did not want to be like his father. He 0.87

00:14:08.220 and he generalized that, as kids do, to mean that all men were like that. So, he wanted to escape that.

00:14:16.640 Now, the thing is that this idea evolved over decades. And as you know, it involved an experiment

00:14:24.220 on an innocent blue-collar family with twins from Canada in which John Money, there were these twins

00:14:35.000 and one of them was circumcised. There was an accident with the equipment. His penis was burned off.

00:14:42.920 John Money ended up instructing this family to raise their son, biological son, as a girl. 1.00

00:14:49.120 This is David Reimer, correct?

00:14:51.700 Yeah. Telling them that it would be fine. All he needs is some surgery, some hormones,

00:14:56.580 and he will be a normal infertile, but normal functioning, happy woman. I tell the story in 0.98

00:15:03.580 the book. The bottom line of that story is that it was a disaster, that this was a biological boy 0.99

00:15:11.080 who, from an early age, was very masculine, even though he was being told 24-7 that he was a girl,

00:15:19.120 he was being, he was completely what we would call now socially transitioned. He was given a girl's

00:15:24.900 name, pronouns, dresses, the whole thing. Everyone in his life treated him as a girl. He rejected it.

00:15:34.040 He didn't know what was going on, but he rejected it. He was very masculine in his interests,

00:15:39.860 in his behaviors, in the way that he moved, in his gestures. His classmates called him cave woman,

00:15:47.060 okay? He wanted to be a car mechanic when he was in, like, fourth grade. So, you know,

00:15:53.060 it's very stereotypical, but the point is that his genetics played a huge role in his identity.

00:16:02.720 Anyway, it's a long and very tragic and horrible story. John Money went forward, you know,

00:16:10.980 he was abusing these, these kids when they came to see him at his clinic.

00:16:17.680 The boys reached the age of 14. David, or Brenda, as he was called, the one that was raised as a girl,

00:16:26.500 was very disturbed, very emotionally disturbed, not functioning well socially, academically,

00:16:33.960 became suicidal. In fact, when he hit puberty, and he was attracted to girls.

00:16:40.860 John Money wanted him to have a surgery that would construct a vagina, so-called vagina. 1.00

00:16:49.600 David Reamer said, no way. He refused to ever go back to John Money, and he was suicidal. 0.99

00:16:56.140 So, finally, against John Money's advice, he was informed that he was, he was, in fact, born a man,

00:17:03.500 born a man, I'm sorry. He was, he was a boy. And he said, later on, he was interviewed years later,

00:17:10.480 he said, at that moment, he felt such overwhelming relief, because he realized that he's not a freak.

00:17:17.960 He realized that there's not something wrong with him. He felt that he was a boy. Okay.

00:17:22.720 So, the takeaway message from all this, and I really do recommend that your readers read this story.

00:17:31.220 There was a book written called, The Boy That Was Raised as a Girl by John Colapinto.

00:17:37.000 It's all very well documented, but the bottom line is that John Money used this experiment on this family

00:17:47.580 to support his theory that we are born gender-neutral, blank slates, and it's all a social construct.

00:17:57.340 It's all imposed by society. And he refused, even when he knew, David Reamer's mom wrote to him

00:18:07.440 and told him what was going on with her son, and that they had, you know, revealed to him that he was a

00:18:15.180 biological boy. Well, I shouldn't say biological. There's one kind of a boy, okay? I don't do this 0.99

00:18:20.420 whole language thing. Biological boy, transgender boy. There's boys and there's girls. So, David Reamer

00:18:27.560 was a boy. John Money was a very bad character. He abused kids. He was a pedophile. He was pro-incest.

00:18:38.860 I mean, this is not a good guy that we're talking about here. And then, and he also never went back

00:18:45.560 and told the scientific community, and really the world, because the entire world heard about this

00:18:52.640 experiment, obviously, that he portrayed as a resounding success. And he portrayed as proof of

00:19:01.200 his theory, his gender theory. And it was anything but proof. It was anything but confirmation of his 0.55

00:19:10.180 idea that we are born gender neutral and that biology doesn't count. So, just to get back to your

00:19:15.720 question, I do believe that there are activists, you know, who genuinely feel that this is, you know,

00:19:29.020 the right thing to do for young kids. They feel that this is the new civil rights issue, that kids can

00:19:39.200 be born in the wrong body. They believe the whole thing, okay? And they become activists. They go into

00:19:47.600 the schools. They're teachers. They're guidance counselors. And they genuinely believe that they are

00:19:54.660 saving these kids from their, you know, their parents who are ignorant and bigots and transphobic. 1.00

00:20:06.280 There are such people. There are also people who don't really care about the ethics of it. They want 0.99

00:20:12.240 to make a lot of money. And the people are making tons of money, obviously. I want to remind your

00:20:18.680 audience that once one of these kids starts taking puberty blockers at an early age, they might start

00:20:25.100 it as young as eight. Puberty can start as young as eight or nine years old. If you're going to prevent

00:20:32.520 puberty, block puberty, you're going to put these kids on these strong medications that work on the brain

00:20:39.620 to prevent the changes of puberty. And almost every single child whose puberty is blocked are going to

00:20:48.040 continue on to cross-sex hormones. And they will be consumers of pharmaceuticals for the rest of

00:20:55.440 their lives. Forget about all the surgery and how much all of that costs. Just the medication in order

00:21:02.580 to maintain that persona of the opposite sex in order to grow facial hair and body hair and, you know, 0.89

00:21:13.020 muscle mass and redistribute fat and, and for your voice to be lowered. And all of those changes

00:21:20.700 requires lifelong medication. So of course, there's billions that are going to be made off of this

00:21:29.620 movement. I do think that there are also those who want to see a new society and they want,

00:21:40.320 they want to see a new, they want humanity 2.0. Okay. Humanity that is not tethered or anchored in

00:21:50.700 biology. Biology, the physical body is seen as a, a restrictive state, a limiting state. And if you can

00:22:01.980 go beyond it with the help of technology, pharmaceuticals, et cetera, then for sure. I mean,

00:22:10.160 that's called, as you know, transhumanism. Yeah. Well, I mean, I already see all I in my,

00:22:16.380 so you may or may not know that in my academic career, my scientific career, uh, I pioneered the

00:22:22.100 use of evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology in studying decision-making consumer behavior.

00:22:27.680 And I found even, even without mentioning the word transgender, the biophobia that social scientists

00:22:35.540 feel by biophobia, I mean, the fear of using biology to explain human affairs is just rampant.

00:22:41.580 And in the sense that most social scientists, when they sort of accept their card carrying

00:22:47.560 membership in the social scientist community, abdicate the role of biology, right? What makes

00:22:53.920 them social scientists is that they usually say, uh, either directly or, or, you know, implicitly

00:23:00.000 that what makes us humans and hence different from all other of our animal cousins is that we

00:23:06.940 transcend our biology. We are cultural animals that's so, so how could you professor Saad be using

00:23:13.900 evolutionary theory to explain consumer behavior? Don't you know that evolutionary biology only applies

00:23:19.760 for the mosquito, the zebra and your dog, but how could you be using evolutionary theory to explain

00:23:25.340 the human mind? And that baffled me as a young assistant professor. I almost thought that I was

00:23:31.860 in a candid camera show. Like, what do you mean? You think that when we walk around the world,

00:23:36.280 we exist in a supra plane removed from our biology? Well, overwhelmingly Miriam, social scientists

00:23:42.940 would say a resounding yes. So in a sense, trans activism is solely a viral or pathogenic 0.92

00:23:51.000 manifestation of this greater problem, no? Yes. And I think, God, I think that the point we really

00:23:56.960 have to make for your audience is that you cannot deny biology without paying a price. There's a huge

00:24:05.260 price that comes with this. And kids, little kids are being led to believe that the price

00:24:11.380 is very minimal and that the benefits are huge. And these are kids who have underlying,

00:24:18.000 you know, issues there. They might be on the autism spectrum. They're suffering. They have anxiety

00:24:24.100 and depression and eating disorders, you know, self-injury. And they're led to believe by influencers

00:24:31.080 and others that are out there that are very aggressive in this message that you, you, you know,

00:24:38.780 if you aren't happy with yourself, if you don't fit in, if you don't have a friend group,

00:24:45.480 if you're unhappy with the changes of puberty, you may very well be transgender. And if you live as 1.00

00:24:52.640 the opposite sex or some other category, which, you know, there's many categories now being invented

00:24:59.620 besides male and female, I'm sure you're aware of that, then you will find relief

00:25:06.320 from these issues. And so now we have so many detransitioners, the young people who went through 1.00

00:25:14.420 gender affirming care, which I will define gender affirming care is the process of immediately

00:25:26.360 accepting, uh, uh, a child or teenagers or young adults, um, uh, new identity and, uh, putting them

00:25:37.040 on a path toward medicalization. So you do first the social transition name pronouns, uh, appearance,

00:25:45.620 you know, sometimes finding the breasts and tucking male genitals, which I can explain more about that 0.52

00:25:54.060 if, if, if, if, if you like. Oh, and by the way, I use that term biophobia in my book as well. 0.91

00:26:00.220 Do you? Okay.

00:26:01.260 Yes, I do. And it really is biophobic. It's an irrational fear and rejection of biology.

00:26:08.540 So what I'm saying is that these kids who have been quote unquote affirmed and were socially

00:26:14.340 transitioned lived as the opposite sex. And some of them were medicalized, had mastectomies, 0.99

00:26:20.860 you know, uh, had, had their appearance permanently changed, uh, by hormones, cross sex hormones and

00:26:29.940 blockers, which there are serious, serious changes that, that take place. You know, when you go on

00:26:37.700 blockers, you not only does that mean that you block, you know, growing breasts or, you know, 0.96

00:26:45.260 all these physical changes, the sexual, uh, secondary sexual characteristics, as we call them of puberty,

00:26:51.600 that's only what's what you see, you know, what you see physically, but the, it affects every

00:27:00.000 system of the body. Puberty is a process that is exquisitely, uh, complex as most biological processes

00:27:11.160 are. We do not understand puberty. We're just beginning to understand what it is. And, um,

00:27:19.300 it affects every system of the body, including of course, the brain. And there are vast, massive

00:27:26.220 changes that take place in the brain. When a child goes through natural puberty, when I say natural,

00:27:33.400 that means that a girl is permitted to, to experience the surge of estrogen, um, that's

00:27:41.200 going to happen, you know, when, when she enters puberty and for all those years, and then the same

00:27:48.060 for boys, the surge of, of testosterone, boys need testosterone and girls need estrogen in order to

00:27:56.940 develop normally a, in order for their brain to mature. The brain of a 25 year old is very different

00:28:04.580 than a brain of a 10 year old. And that's because they've gone through puberty and the centers in the

00:28:11.280 brain responsible for, uh, for, for rational thinking for, uh, considering consequences, looking at the pros and

00:28:23.180 cons of decisions, you know, weighing things out. That's the prefrontal cortex right behind the

00:28:30.380 forehead right here. That is the last area of the brain to develop. Now, if we prevent that development,

00:28:38.760 what's going to happen? They're going to continue, uh, functioning as a child. Now the proponents,

00:28:45.780 the advocates of, of, uh, gender affirming care would come and say at this point, well,

00:28:52.940 Dr. Grossman, that's not the case because we're going to be giving, yes, we're going to block the

00:28:58.100 estrogen for the girls and block the testosterone for the boys, but we're going to then go ahead and give

00:29:03.180 testosterone to the girls and estrogen for the boys so that they can go through puberty. It's just the

00:29:08.560 opposite sex puberty. Well, hello. We, we don't know what the outcome of that. We don't know the effects on the

00:29:15.800 brain of that. That is an experiment that is based on a small, uh, study that came out of the Netherlands,

00:29:24.400 uh, that was, that was undertaken in the nineties and the two thousands, a small group of young people,

00:29:32.740 about 55 kids. Uh, and, and, you know, that's another story that I tell in the book.

00:29:40.320 Sorry. I have to do. Oh, do it. Do it. Lost in translation. Get it. I have to do my publisher

00:29:50.240 told me to hold it up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Feel free. Go ahead. Okay. So this is called the Dutch

00:29:55.840 protocol and this is what affirming care is totally based on the Dutch protocol. The Dutch protocol has

00:30:03.700 many, many issues, many problems, but most importantly, what I want to explain is that the

00:30:11.560 kids that were included in this Dutch protocol, when they first started using blockers on normal

00:30:18.000 children, up to that point, blockers were only used on individuals with medical disorders. So the Dutch 1.00

00:30:25.720 came along and said, we're going to use blockers on normal children, but what did they do? They only

00:30:32.380 picked kids with using very strict criteria. One of the criteria is that they all had to have

00:30:40.880 early onset, severe gender dysphoria. So, you know, early onset, we're talking about toddlerhood

00:30:48.760 or, you know, uh, preschool day in and day out kids that were insisting that they were or want to be the

00:30:58.300 opposite sex. So that's very, very different from today's kids who are either just coming into puberty 0.99

00:31:06.400 or they are already in puberty, their adolescence. And most of them had no gender dysphoria,

00:31:12.800 no discomfort being male or female until that point. Plus they heard about this from the internet.

00:31:21.300 They learned about this from social media, from their friends, from sex education, from their

00:31:27.960 guidance counselor. That's an altogether different situation than these little kids that the Dutch 1.00

00:31:33.940 ended up putting blockers on, that it was an internal process. It was, it was something going on with them

00:31:41.400 psychologically, uh, that they, that they simply did not feel comfortable with their biology.

00:31:48.640 That's A. B, the Dutch would not include any kids who had serious or let's say even significant 1.00

00:31:59.900 mental health issues. You would just be out, out of the study if you had significant mental health

00:32:07.240 issues. Again, that's the opposite of the kids that we're looking at now. They have extremely

00:32:13.860 significant mental health issues. And what the gender affirming, uh, uh, proponents are now saying,

00:32:21.780 these, these zealots that are just, you know, foisting this onto us, they're saying, well, of course

00:32:29.680 they have mental health issues because they're transgender and because they're being forced to live in the 0.89

00:32:36.440 wrong body. Yeah. So you understand how upside down this is. Yeah. So in, I'm going to ask you 0.98

00:32:44.640 here to, uh, to see if you agree with this. And certainly as a psychiatrist, you're the right

00:32:49.560 person that I should be testing this theory. So in the parasitic mind, I, so let me, let me back up.

00:32:55.560 In 2010, I had written an academic paper and actually published in a medical journal where I was

00:33:00.780 talking about the Darwinian mechanisms that might explain Munchausen syndrome by proxy. And for those

00:33:08.780 of us who are not academics or psychiatrists, Munchausen syndrome is when I feign my own, you know,

00:33:15.840 medical situation to garner empathy, sympathy. Munchausen syndrome by proxy is when I have someone

00:33:21.760 under my care. It could be a pet. It could be an elderly parent. Most often it's a biological mother

00:33:27.060 with her biological child who will then harm them to garner by proxy, the empathy and sympathy.

00:33:32.660 So having written that paper in 2010, and when I was now writing the parasitic mind, you know,

00:33:38.160 a decade later, I coined the, the malady, uh, collective Munchausen and collective Munchausen by

00:33:46.060 sin, uh, by proxy to explain the orgiastic pursuit of victimology, whether it be real victimology or fake

00:33:53.140 victimology. So do you think, and, and therefore then I could apply transgenderism as a form of 0.83

00:34:00.480 Munchausen. Now in the case, for example, of Charlize Theron, it could be, you know, transgenderism,

00:34:07.000 Munchausen by proxy, because I adopt kids from Africa who are boys, and then I turn all of them into 1.00

00:34:14.500 girls where the statistics of that are insanely low. So do you think that that's a good framework to try to 0.89

00:34:20.960 understand some of this kind of orgiastic malady that we're facing, that it's a form of Munchausen?

00:34:28.580 Uh, in some cases, I have no doubt that that is, that that is true. However, we have to always keep

00:34:34.420 in mind when you're talking about the parents, they are being threatened that their kid is going to

00:34:39.520 commit suicide if they don't go with this. So you have to be very careful here. And I have a whole chapter

00:34:45.440 about parents, you know, and what it, what it, what they're going through, the hell that they go

00:34:51.480 through when they try to resist, uh, uh, you know, resist, uh, accepting their child as, uh, the opposite

00:35:01.140 sex. But yes, I certainly believe that there are cases, probably a lot of cases, unfortunately, and that

00:35:09.560 in where the mother's psychopathology, um, is behind her, what did you say? Orgiastic? How did you put

00:35:19.900 it? Orgiastic. That's great. Yeah. Well, I agree with you. That's, that's a great term. So do you have,

00:35:30.320 so just forgive me for interrupting you. So typically when one of the two parents is driving the,

00:35:37.900 the argument that my child is transgender without knowing the data, I'm going to predict it's much 1.00

00:35:44.700 more likely to be mothers than fathers. Am I right? Dr. Grossman? You're right. You are right.

00:35:52.620 Yes. Wow. Of course that's the case. And you know, there's many lawsuits. I've been involved with a few

00:35:58.460 cases now in court in which divorced parents are fighting it out over transitioning the kid.

00:36:05.020 And it's always the dad who's fighting it. Why is that? You're a dad. Why is that?

00:36:12.580 Well, I'll put the link to my paper from 2010 that explains why it is biological mothers that are

00:36:19.980 most likely to suffer from Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The reason I became interested in it

00:36:24.380 is because from an evolutionary perspective, you would think the exact opposite should happen,

00:36:31.160 right? Because we know that there's no such thing as maternity uncertainty for humans, but there is

00:36:36.560 paternity uncertainty. So you, if you, so you would think that the fathers would be more likely to be

00:36:41.680 the ones who harm their children on purpose. And yet in this case, we have the exact opposite mechanism,

00:36:46.740 but I want to get back since your book, as, as you said at the start of your, is not an intellectual

00:36:51.940 exercise, but a practical how to. So tell us how your, your child comes to you and says,

00:36:58.800 stop calling me, John, I'm Linda. What are the steps that as a caring parent, I want to listen to

00:37:05.780 my child, but I know that it's likely a social contagion. What are the, you know, prescription

00:37:10.980 that I can follow to try to combat this without having social services come and take my child away

00:37:15.780 from me? Yeah. Which, uh, thanks for mentioning that because I also have, uh, I have appendices

00:37:22.260 that are written. Some of them are written by attorneys and they explain to the family, what are

00:37:28.800 your rights regarding child protective services? What are your rights regarding schools? I mean,

00:37:35.420 this is in the U S I don't know how much of it would apply to Canada, but parents have constitutional

00:37:41.460 rights to, uh, be in charge of their child's education. And so I'm providing parents ahead

00:37:48.780 of time. Okay. Once your kid comes to you and says, mom, I'm not your son. I'm your daughter.

00:37:53.760 You know, you're already, that's, that's already, that's, that's going to be pretty tough. Uh, I do

00:37:59.540 give a lot of advice for those parents, including the first conversation. Okay. So I want to provide

00:38:05.620 parents before that conversation ever happens. I want them to have a model, uh, uh, parent child 0.98

00:38:14.760 conversation, how to deal with that request when your child comes to you and says this,

00:38:20.800 and it's a lengthy chapter, uh, and, and, and the parent and the child go back and forth and a lot

00:38:27.040 of issues come up, but the overriding message is number one, to try not to freak out. You can freak

00:38:35.340 out later, try to stay calm, uh, and be curious. So what you, what you want to do in that first

00:38:47.100 conversation is to ask a lot of questions and to be curious and to tell your child, I see that this

00:38:56.840 is important to you. So it's also important to me. I'm going to, I'm going to read everything I can get

00:39:04.440 my hands on so that I can understand this better. And we are going to help you. However, at the same

00:39:13.460 time, I am not using a different name. I am not using different pronouns. Now I remind parents that

00:39:25.160 they have to be the adult adults have to be living in reality, emotionally healthy people live in

00:39:34.940 reality. Uh, so they have to represent reality. And the reality is that their son cannot be turned

00:39:42.780 into their daughter and their daughter cannot be turned into their son. And I, I give them the

00:39:49.680 confidence, you know, I give them the biology. And again, you don't need a PhD. I explain everything

00:39:56.220 in a way that anyone could read and understand that this is simply an impossibility. And that

00:40:02.700 while there are extremely rare kids who, uh, you know, fit into that category of childhood onset

00:40:11.480 gender dysphoria, a, if their kid is only coming to them later on, you know, as a pre-adolescent or

00:40:18.460 an adolescent or young adult, they're not in that category. They're not, you know, I explained that

00:40:25.400 gender dysphoria is a, is, is, is a symptom. For example, like fever, fever is a symptom. It can occur

00:40:32.540 in many different kinds of conditions. You can have an infection. You can have, uh, I don't know,

00:40:39.340 a cancer can cause a fever. I mean, there's, there's many different conditions that cause

00:40:44.300 fevers. You can have an autoimmune disease, but you don't, you don't put all these cases to lump

00:40:52.300 them together and say, Oh, they're all a fever. This is how we treat them. And that's what gender 1.00

00:40:58.080 affirming care does. It takes every single case of people per individual, whether it's a four-year-old

00:41:06.840 or a 50 year old. Okay. A four-year-old girl who's autistic or a 50 year old man who's been a

00:41:16.060 cross-dresser for 30 years and says, Oh, you know, this is the same, the same thing. That is, 0.51

00:41:22.920 that is not what we do in medicine. Um, we look at, at, at, uh, we, we, we look at the symptom and we

00:41:31.980 look at what's causing it. And so with these kids that have gender dysphoria as adolescents and they

00:41:39.200 develop it quickly, what's called rapid onset dysphoria. I explain what that's all about. I educate

00:41:46.300 parents. So with rapid onset dysphoria, you see their new identity is a solution to something. 0.66

00:41:54.000 That's the way we have to look at it. What is it a solution to? Is it a girl who is fearful of,

00:42:03.640 of, of becoming sexualized, you know, getting a woman's body and then, you know, and hates the

00:42:10.380 way that men are looking at her. Is she afraid of being abused? Is she attracted to other girls? 0.95

00:42:17.820 Does she think perhaps that if she's a boy, then she's heterosexual, you know, then she's attracted

00:42:23.320 to, I mean, there's all kinds of reasons. I'd mentioned John Money a few months, a few minutes

00:42:28.920 ago. John Money did not want to be his father. He unfortunately was led to believe that this

00:42:37.600 male model of masculinity, that's, that's what being a man needs. He didn't understand that

00:42:43.300 there's many different kinds of men. There are gentle men. There are wonderful, gentle, patient,

00:42:49.560 emotionally expressive and supportive men. He didn't have to hate his biology in order to be

00:42:56.980 that way. So what I'm trying to say, what did you ask me? It doesn't matter. This is great. Keep

00:43:03.060 going. Okay. What I, what I want parents. Oh, oh, you asked me about the recipe for how to handle it as

00:43:10.460 a parent. All right. So I do give a lot of practical tips on how to handle it, but even

00:43:17.240 more importantly, I want to reach the parents who have yet to go through this, that it may be in

00:43:23.780 their future. And I'm telling them that they can immunize their families against this social

00:43:29.500 contagion against, as you would call this pathogenic idea, right? That's the, that's the,

00:43:35.360 right. So you can immunize your family. How from an early age, I want children to know

00:43:42.940 that they are in the right body. Their body is perfect. That they, they became, they were

00:43:50.780 there, that, that sex is established at conception. So little kids can be told way before they were

00:43:59.240 born. The instant that they, that they were created, that instant, nine months before they

00:44:06.020 were born, they were either a boy or a girl. And that is permanent and that can never change. And

00:44:12.420 that's perfect. Now, if they happen to be a boy that has more feminine interests, fine. That's fine.

00:44:19.740 There are all kinds of boys. And if it's a girl that has stereotypical, you know, sports and STEM and 0.91

00:44:26.880 doesn't like to wear dresses, big deal. Kids are being told now, you know, these stereotypes that

00:44:34.660 in my generation, we were fighting those stereotypes. And now those stereotypes are coming back by the

00:44:42.060 gender ideologues. And they're telling kids, well, you know what, you're a girl, you like science,

00:44:48.140 you don't like, you know, reading and you don't, you're not into boys and makeup, you know, you,

00:44:53.380 you might be a boy. Can you imagine such a horrific message to give to a child that they're born in the 0.93

00:45:00.080 wrong body? Wow. What, what percentage of it? Maybe there isn't actual objective data on this,

00:45:07.160 but if I can ask you to speculate, if we look at all psychiatrists, say, you know, American Psychiatric

00:45:13.240 Association, and we were to pull them as to, you know, I am totally for the transgender, you know,

00:45:20.260 positions versus I'm in the Miriam Grossman camp. Do we have a sense of, you know, how much the

00:45:27.500 parasitic ideas have spread amongst psychiatrists? Are most people on your side? Or are you the pariah

00:45:35.040 that needs to be, you know, that needs to lose her medical license? Where do we, where are we 1.00

00:45:39.060 standing in these parasitic infestations? Okay. Well, in speaking out and in writing about it,

00:45:44.500 I am the pariah and also in refusing to affirm kids in my office, um, to a certain degree, not a

00:45:51.740 pariah, but you know, there aren't that many of us. Um, you know, because they're too afraid to speak,

00:45:57.080 but they're on your side or are they actually believing in their nonsense? Okay. I understand

00:46:01.500 your question. And I, and I have been dreaming for years of how can we do an anonymous poll among my

00:46:08.740 colleagues in psychiatry and psychology. I would so love to do that. Um, it hasn't been done. And I

00:46:14.680 want your audience to understand that when these associations, these medical groups come out with

00:46:20.900 statements, policy statements, and so forth, they have not, they have, it does not represent a consensus.

00:46:27.720 I'm going to answer your question in a minute, Dr. Satt. Okay. I really am. But I want your listeners to

00:46:32.880 know that when, when, you know, for example, Admiral Dr. Rachel Levine of health and human services in

00:46:39.680 Washington, DC stand up, stands up and says, there is a medical consensus that kids have to be affirmed

00:46:47.780 and have to be given this, be put on this medical assembly line. There is no such consensus. There is

00:46:55.000 no consensus whatsoever. There is no referendum of the members of these academies and these associations.

00:47:02.880 Now, to answer your question, I believe, you know, the big surprise, the younger you are, the more likely

00:47:10.440 that you, you know, if you're a young doctor who's, you know, gone through the indoctrination as part of

00:47:15.800 their training, um, they're more likely to be indoctrinated. But I will tell you this, the American, uh, Academy of

00:47:23.600 Pediatrics, 67,000 members, um, they came out in 2018 with a policy statement that, by the way, it was written

00:47:32.820 by one pediatrician and it was just a, a regurgitation of the, the whole thing, you know, the whole

00:47:40.380 ideology, you know, this, all the language, cisgender and, you know, non-binary and, you know, the whole

00:47:48.380 thing, the kids know best, you know, give them the blockers, every, the whole deal. So they came out with

00:47:55.220 this in 2018. And, and, and in the past few years, there have been groups of pediatricians that are

00:48:01.880 members of the American Academy of Pediatrics who are calling for a, a, you know, a, a, a debate,

00:48:10.900 a, um, you know, they're saying, we have to look at this. Listen, guys, you know, we don't have the

00:48:17.260 evidence to be saying this. And, um, the way our policy statement stands right now, we are sterilizing

00:48:25.580 children. And so there have been proposals that have been put forth, uh, you know, within that

00:48:32.860 bureaucratic system that the American Academy of Pediatrics has, and again, I explain it in, in my

00:48:39.180 book, what's going on, the American Academy of Pediatrics. And there was 20, 24 pediatricians,

00:48:46.760 signed a proposal simply saying, we have to look at this more closely. We have to look at the evidence

00:48:55.180 because, um, all these foreign countries, Sweden, Finland, uh, Norway, uh, you know, England, they have

00:49:05.240 all done reviews of the literature and they have all done a 180 and they are no longer, uh, uh, promoting,

00:49:12.500 well, they practically banning, basically banning these medical interventions that we are putting

00:49:19.160 kids on like candy. Now I'm getting back. I haven't forgotten your question. Okay. Um, during COVID,

00:49:26.720 uh, there was this proposal for the American Academy of Pediatrics was put out there to all the members

00:49:35.480 to see how many would approve of such a proposal, uh, you know, just to look at it, just to look at

00:49:43.540 their policy on gender affirming care, 80%, 80% of the membership. I hope I'm getting this right.

00:49:51.620 I think I'm getting, I know that it's 80%. Yeah. Was, was, was, uh, would support the Academy,

00:49:59.760 uh, you know, going back and looking at this again and reexamining it and perhaps coming out with a

00:50:07.500 different policy statement, but this proposal keeps on just being ignored. Okay. What's going on?

00:50:15.740 I want parents to know that pediatricians, psychiatrists, endocrinologists who, who are

00:50:23.120 not comfortable with this and who oppose it, um, are being silenced. They're just being ignored,

00:50:30.500 silenced. They're not given a platform. They write articles. The articles aren't published.

00:50:35.080 They try to have, um, you know, panel discussions at the annual meetings of these associations.

00:50:42.660 They are not given the opportunity even to have a panel discussion. So, uh, our, our opinions are

00:50:50.700 just simply being squashed. And this is happening in the medical associations that you trust. And I

00:50:58.140 don't blame parents for trust. I used to trust. I mean, are you kidding? When you go to medical school

00:51:04.220 and you go do your training in any field of medicine, you just, it is inculcated in you that

00:51:11.240 you trust your medical associations. You turn to them for guidance. And sadly, we cannot do that in

00:51:19.040 this area. What do you think? Maybe this will be the last question. Cause I'm, I want to be mindful

00:51:23.900 of your time. And then if, if possible, if you have a minute or two, I'd like to ask you a sort of

00:51:29.040 somewhat unrelated question just for my subscribers, it'll be like a 30 second to 60 second thing.

00:51:33.520 But last question in this interview, what do you think has allowed you? So to use the parlance from

00:51:41.500 my book, I, the, in the parasitic mind, in the last chapter, I talk about activating your inner

00:51:47.060 honey badger, right? Because the honey badger is a very, very fierce animal that doesn't take nonsense

00:51:52.160 from anybody. I mean, adult lions are afraid of this animal that's the size of a small dog. And so when I

00:51:58.660 tell people to activate their inner honey badger, I don't mean it, it's not a call to violence, but

00:52:03.380 it's, it's a call for ideological defense of your positions. You certainly are Dr. Grossman, a honey

00:52:09.720 badger. Is this something that you are born with and therefore we can't, you know, inculcate in others?

00:52:17.000 Or is there a way for us to take your message, let's say in lost and trans nation and create an army of 0.98

00:52:23.780 honey badgers? I think that there is an element of genetics, at least in my part. I, uh, thinking

00:52:32.720 back to my father, may he rest in peace, a Holocaust survivor and a fighter, a fighter for truth. Um,

00:52:40.620 so I think, I mean, genetic or having to do with what kind of home you're raised in, but certainly

00:52:47.340 you can create honey badgers. Absolutely. I think it's a question of, um, people recognizing that,

00:52:55.360 that they're not alone, that they are, you know, they're not isolated sitting at home alone and

00:53:01.000 just thinking, what the heck is going on with this? You know, am I the only person in the world that

00:53:05.560 thinks that this is insane and horrible? And, and, you know, I get so many emails and people have so

00:53:12.460 much belief to know, you know, to hear my voice and the voices of others. I mean, I'm far from the

00:53:18.240 only person, but you know, and, and it empowers them. It empowers them. And I, and even if it's

00:53:25.060 something relatively small, you don't have to go out and write a book, but if you can just get on

00:53:30.480 your social media and say, look, you know, listen to this lady, you know, by her woman, listen to this 0.99

00:53:36.940 woman, I should say, right? This cisgender woman, cisgender. No, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't 1.00

00:53:45.440 accept the language. Um, so, so anyway, how do you know without asking me that I'm cisgender?

00:53:54.700 That's true. Forgive me for being presumptuous. Uh, stay on the line. Please go out. I'm speaking

00:54:00.920 out to my, to my audience. Please go out tomorrow. It drops lost and trans nation. You will not be 1.00

00:54:06.780 disappointed. Miriam, such a pleasure having you stay on the line. I'd like to ask you one more

00:54:11.000 question for my subscribers. What a delight and pleasure. I'm, I'm going to quickly rush out and

00:54:15.740 follow you on Twitter. You've been a delight and a true honor to speak to you today. Thank you so much.

00:54:19.900 Thank you.

My Chat with Psychiatrist Dr. Miriam Grossman, Author of Lost in Trans Nation (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_577)

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