My Chat with Psychiatrist Dr. Miriam Grossman, Author of Lost in Trans Nation (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_577)
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Summary
In this episode, Dr. Miriam Grossman joins me to discuss her new book, Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness. Dr. Grossman is a psychiatrist, child, adolescent and adult psychiatrist, and author of several books, including Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student.
Transcript
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Hi, guys. This is Gatsat for the SAC Truth. Just came back from a family vacation to Portugal.
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This is why I'm even more handsome than my usual self. Today, I have a fantastic guest
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to spearhead the next group of guests. I've got Dr. Miriam Grossman, who is an MD. She's
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a psychiatrist, child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist. Before I cede the floor to you,
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Miriam, some of your previous books include Unprotected, A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals
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How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student. That came out in 2007,
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so you were already at the forefront of warning us. Then your other book, You're Teaching My
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Children What? A Physician Exposes the Lies of Sex Ed and How They Harm Your Child. That came out
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a few years after that. The book to be released tomorrow, we're all very excited by it,
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Lost in Trans Nation. Love that title. A Child Psychiatrist's Guide out of the Madness.
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Miriam, welcome. Please tell us what the book is about.
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Well, thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor. I'm a fan of yours as well.
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Well, yeah. Thank you for mentioning those previous books. It's important because I actually did warn
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parents all the way back in 2009 of this dangerous belief system. I call it a belief system of
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transgenderism and I warned parents that this was already baked into our sexuality education system
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and that even all the way back then in 2009 and earlier. So that's before the current crop,
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most of the current crop of kids who are now impacted by the social hysteria were even born.
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And unfortunately, it took this catastrophe that we are currently in for people to begin waking up
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and realizing, hey, maybe we shouldn't be telling our kids that there's such a thing as being born in
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the wrong body. Maybe there's really no medical or scientific basis to that idea. And so my current
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book is based on my experience of the past few years in which I've been seeing these kids who are
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distressed about their bodies, their sex, being a boy or a girl and their parents. And I've talked to
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hundreds of parents who have now gone through this and they have all told me that they are blindsided by
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it. They did not expect. It's the last thing they expected. In fact, in many cases for their child to come
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to them, their boy to come and say, you know, mom, dad, I'm not a boy, I'm a girl. I want, you don't have
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a son, you have a daughter. I want you to use this new name and these pronouns. And I want to be placed
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on puberty blockers and estrogen. And parents tell me that they were just shocked. They didn't understand
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where this was coming from. They got up and made an appointment at a gender clinic. They go into the
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gender clinic and the gender clinic just rubber stamps the child's new identity. No deep psychiatric
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evaluation. No close look at the history. Does this child have autism? Is this child suffering from
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depression, anxiety, ADHD? Is there a history of trauma? All these basic fundamental questions
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that we are supposed to ask every single patient who walks in our offices. And yet this was not
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done. Their child was placed in the driver's seat. And whatever the child requested, whether it's
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blockers or whatever pronouns, parents are supposed to go along with it or else. The or else meaning,
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as you probably know what I'm going to say, right? And your audience knows what I'm going to say,
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which is that parents are threatened. If they don't go with this narrative and accept their son as
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their daughter, their daughter as their son, well, their child very well might commit suicide.
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I just want to say these parents are in a terrible position. It's a Sophie's Choice kind
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of a thing. Because each option is bad. The option of resisting the new identity might lead their
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led to believe to suicide. But the option of accepting the new persona and celebrating it,
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which is what they're told to do, and saying goodbye and burying, you know, burying the idea of
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that they have a son or a daughter, that's also unacceptable. Because they know it's true.
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Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, finish your point now.
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Yeah, just, it'd be better if we go back and forth as quick. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
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Okay, so what I was going to say is, so we can agree, and certainly as a psychiatrist,
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you'd concede that, you know, we've known that there is such a thing as gender dysphoria.
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I think the key issue is that if we understood it to be one in 10,000 or whatever the operative
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number is, it certainly can't be that 40% of Brown students, Brown university students
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are now suddenly LGB, right? So no one is contesting the fact that a human being could
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Absolutely. Gender dysphoria is real, it is debilitating, and we've known about it for,
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So the question is that it's become a social contagion, and the question then becomes,
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what accelerated that? So in the context of the framework of my last book, The Parasitic Mind,
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as you may or may not know, what I argue in that book, having been a professor for now almost
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30 years, is that there is a set of parasitic ideas, which I call idea pathogens, of which
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trans activism would be one, social constructivism, right? Everything is due to a social construction
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would be another one. Biophobia, the fear of using biology to explain human affairs would
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be another one. And so what I try to do in my book is argue, well, what makes these idea pathogens
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so alluring that they can then, you know, be internalized by people and spread. So from your
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perspective, what is it that caused the trans activism that we see today? What is the catalyst
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Okay, sure. I want to just go back one moment to something that you said. For sure, there is such
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a thing as gender dysphoria, an intense discomfort with one's physically sexed body. And those
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individuals are extremely rare. As you mentioned, I mean, up until 10 or 15 years ago, the data
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that we had was so scarce, because these individuals were so rare, one in many tens of thousands of
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people. However, I think it's important to state that even if a person has intense gender dysphoria,
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and they decide to live as the opposite sex, it does not mean that they actually are the opposite
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sex. And I think that's important to say. You know, we have a physical reality here. And I think it's
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dangerous to try and escape that physical reality and say that what you feel like you are in your mind
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means that that's what you are, because where is the end to that? I mean, I love Italy. I love Italian
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food. I would love to speak it. I mean, am I Italian? No, there's no way that I'm Italian. I wish that I
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had blue eyes. Blue eyes is more beautiful. I identify as a blue eyed person. Does that give me blue eyes?
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No. God, I think that that is an important point to make. And I don't know how you feel about it. But
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especially now, when we are, as you're getting to this idea of the pathogens, you know, ideas that
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are pathogens, and I agree with you, that kids from the earliest age are being told that you can't know
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if someone is a boy or a girl unless you ask them. Okay, that is, that is when you take that idea
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that you are, you, you actually are who you feel yourself to be, that the end result is, is, is that
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you have to ask people if they are male or female, and you have to ask them their pronouns, and that their
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physical biological reality is insignificant. Yeah, amazing. So, so do you think, I mean, I'm asking you, I
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don't know if that that would be a speculative response you're giving, or maybe you actually have the data as a
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practicing psychiatrist. Do you think that many of the ideologues behind the trans activist movement are coming
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from a noble place? Or is there some sort of nefarious Dr. Evil, you know, angle to it? And the reason I'm saying
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this, before you even answer, let, let me give you what I argue in the parasitic mind. So, I argue that
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what, the commonality across all of the idea pathogens that I discuss in the book is that they
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start off with a noble cause, which then, if you like, metamorphosizes into lunacy in support of that
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original, you know, so if we have to murder, murder and rape truth in the service of that original
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noble cause, then so be it. And so, let me contextualize it with a specific example.
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Social constructivism, as you know, Miriam, is the idea that everything is due to a social
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construction. We're born, you know, empty slate, and then it's only the unique trajectory of our lives
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that makes us who we are. Now, that premise, while fully incorrect, is rooted in a noble, hopeful,
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you know, ethos, which is, I'd love to think that my child could be the next Lionel Messi,
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and the next Michael Jordan, or the next Albert Einstein, that there is no innate biological
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differences in potentiality. We're all born equal. So, that original hopeful message, completely rooted
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in nonsense, starts off, at least, with a non-nefarious, noble reason. So, is that what's
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happening with trans activism, which is, we want to liberate people from the shackles of their genitalia,
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or is it something more nefarious? You know, that's a great question. It's a very intellectual
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question, so I'm not surprised that you're coming to me with that question. I'm going to answer it.
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I do want to say, though, that this book, my book, Lost in Transnation, it is not an intellectual
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book. It is written for everyday moms and dads. You do not need a PhD. It is a guide out of the
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madness. I do explain the history of these ideas, and that's where I'm going to touch on answering you
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right now. But overall, it really is a very practical guide to how to manage this and how
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prevent it from entering your home. So, to answer your question, you know, the original idea that
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you are not your biological sex, you are the social construct of what has been projected onto you by
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society came from John Money in 1957. He coined this term gender identity. He had his own gender
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dysphoria. He himself was uncomfortable being a man, which is fascinating. So, he came up with a
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theory, and of course, this was decades before we had mapped out the human genome. This is decades
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before we can look at the chromosomes and see that the Y chromosome, which only men have, boys and men
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have, is teeming with genes that are unique to men. So, back then, it was feasible with the science that
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we knew at that time to propose that everything was just projected from society onto a little kid
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before the age of three, the pink blanket, the blue blanket, the dolls, the toys, etc., etc.,
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the expectations. So, was John Money coming from a good place?
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I think that he was coming from a place of solving his own emotional issues and wanting to be as unlike
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as his father as possible. His father was an abusive, raging alcoholic who used to beat him and kill
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animals and beat up his mother. So, yeah, I mean, John Money did not want to be like his father. He
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and he generalized that, as kids do, to mean that all men were like that. So, he wanted to escape that.
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Now, the thing is that this idea evolved over decades. And as you know, it involved an experiment
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on an innocent blue-collar family with twins from Canada in which John Money, there were these twins
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and one of them was circumcised. There was an accident with the equipment. His penis was burned off.
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John Money ended up instructing this family to raise their son, biological son, as a girl.
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Yeah. Telling them that it would be fine. All he needs is some surgery, some hormones,
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and he will be a normal infertile, but normal functioning, happy woman. I tell the story in
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the book. The bottom line of that story is that it was a disaster, that this was a biological boy
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who, from an early age, was very masculine, even though he was being told 24-7 that he was a girl,
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he was being, he was completely what we would call now socially transitioned. He was given a girl's
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name, pronouns, dresses, the whole thing. Everyone in his life treated him as a girl. He rejected it.
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He didn't know what was going on, but he rejected it. He was very masculine in his interests,
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in his behaviors, in the way that he moved, in his gestures. His classmates called him cave woman,
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okay? He wanted to be a car mechanic when he was in, like, fourth grade. So, you know,
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it's very stereotypical, but the point is that his genetics played a huge role in his identity.
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Anyway, it's a long and very tragic and horrible story. John Money went forward, you know,
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he was abusing these, these kids when they came to see him at his clinic.
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The boys reached the age of 14. David, or Brenda, as he was called, the one that was raised as a girl,
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was very disturbed, very emotionally disturbed, not functioning well socially, academically,
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became suicidal. In fact, when he hit puberty, and he was attracted to girls.
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John Money wanted him to have a surgery that would construct a vagina, so-called vagina.
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David Reamer said, no way. He refused to ever go back to John Money, and he was suicidal.
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So, finally, against John Money's advice, he was informed that he was, he was, in fact, born a man,
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born a man, I'm sorry. He was, he was a boy. And he said, later on, he was interviewed years later,
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he said, at that moment, he felt such overwhelming relief, because he realized that he's not a freak.
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He realized that there's not something wrong with him. He felt that he was a boy. Okay.
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So, the takeaway message from all this, and I really do recommend that your readers read this story.
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There was a book written called, The Boy That Was Raised as a Girl by John Colapinto.
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It's all very well documented, but the bottom line is that John Money used this experiment on this family
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to support his theory that we are born gender-neutral, blank slates, and it's all a social construct.
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It's all imposed by society. And he refused, even when he knew, David Reamer's mom wrote to him
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and told him what was going on with her son, and that they had, you know, revealed to him that he was a
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biological boy. Well, I shouldn't say biological. There's one kind of a boy, okay? I don't do this
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whole language thing. Biological boy, transgender boy. There's boys and there's girls. So, David Reamer
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was a boy. John Money was a very bad character. He abused kids. He was a pedophile. He was pro-incest.
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I mean, this is not a good guy that we're talking about here. And then, and he also never went back
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and told the scientific community, and really the world, because the entire world heard about this
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experiment, obviously, that he portrayed as a resounding success. And he portrayed as proof of
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his theory, his gender theory. And it was anything but proof. It was anything but confirmation of his
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idea that we are born gender neutral and that biology doesn't count. So, just to get back to your
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question, I do believe that there are activists, you know, who genuinely feel that this is, you know,
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the right thing to do for young kids. They feel that this is the new civil rights issue, that kids can
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be born in the wrong body. They believe the whole thing, okay? And they become activists. They go into
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the schools. They're teachers. They're guidance counselors. And they genuinely believe that they are
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saving these kids from their, you know, their parents who are ignorant and bigots and transphobic.
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There are such people. There are also people who don't really care about the ethics of it. They want
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to make a lot of money. And the people are making tons of money, obviously. I want to remind your
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audience that once one of these kids starts taking puberty blockers at an early age, they might start
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it as young as eight. Puberty can start as young as eight or nine years old. If you're going to prevent
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puberty, block puberty, you're going to put these kids on these strong medications that work on the brain
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to prevent the changes of puberty. And almost every single child whose puberty is blocked are going to
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continue on to cross-sex hormones. And they will be consumers of pharmaceuticals for the rest of
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their lives. Forget about all the surgery and how much all of that costs. Just the medication in order
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to maintain that persona of the opposite sex in order to grow facial hair and body hair and, you know,
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muscle mass and redistribute fat and, and for your voice to be lowered. And all of those changes
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requires lifelong medication. So of course, there's billions that are going to be made off of this
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movement. I do think that there are also those who want to see a new society and they want,
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they want to see a new, they want humanity 2.0. Okay. Humanity that is not tethered or anchored in
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biology. Biology, the physical body is seen as a, a restrictive state, a limiting state. And if you can
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go beyond it with the help of technology, pharmaceuticals, et cetera, then for sure. I mean,
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that's called, as you know, transhumanism. Yeah. Well, I mean, I already see all I in my,
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so you may or may not know that in my academic career, my scientific career, uh, I pioneered the
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use of evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology in studying decision-making consumer behavior.
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And I found even, even without mentioning the word transgender, the biophobia that social scientists
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feel by biophobia, I mean, the fear of using biology to explain human affairs is just rampant.
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And in the sense that most social scientists, when they sort of accept their card carrying
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membership in the social scientist community, abdicate the role of biology, right? What makes
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them social scientists is that they usually say, uh, either directly or, or, you know, implicitly
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that what makes us humans and hence different from all other of our animal cousins is that we
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transcend our biology. We are cultural animals that's so, so how could you professor Saad be using
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evolutionary theory to explain consumer behavior? Don't you know that evolutionary biology only applies
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for the mosquito, the zebra and your dog, but how could you be using evolutionary theory to explain
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the human mind? And that baffled me as a young assistant professor. I almost thought that I was
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in a candid camera show. Like, what do you mean? You think that when we walk around the world,
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we exist in a supra plane removed from our biology? Well, overwhelmingly Miriam, social scientists
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would say a resounding yes. So in a sense, trans activism is solely a viral or pathogenic
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manifestation of this greater problem, no? Yes. And I think, God, I think that the point we really
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have to make for your audience is that you cannot deny biology without paying a price. There's a huge
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price that comes with this. And kids, little kids are being led to believe that the price
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is very minimal and that the benefits are huge. And these are kids who have underlying,
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you know, issues there. They might be on the autism spectrum. They're suffering. They have anxiety
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and depression and eating disorders, you know, self-injury. And they're led to believe by influencers
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and others that are out there that are very aggressive in this message that you, you, you know,
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if you aren't happy with yourself, if you don't fit in, if you don't have a friend group,
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if you're unhappy with the changes of puberty, you may very well be transgender. And if you live as
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the opposite sex or some other category, which, you know, there's many categories now being invented
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besides male and female, I'm sure you're aware of that, then you will find relief
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from these issues. And so now we have so many detransitioners, the young people who went through
00:25:14.420
gender affirming care, which I will define gender affirming care is the process of immediately
00:25:26.360
accepting, uh, uh, a child or teenagers or young adults, um, uh, new identity and, uh, putting them
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on a path toward medicalization. So you do first the social transition name pronouns, uh, appearance,
00:25:45.620
you know, sometimes finding the breasts and tucking male genitals, which I can explain more about that
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if, if, if, if, if you like. Oh, and by the way, I use that term biophobia in my book as well.
00:26:01.260
Yes, I do. And it really is biophobic. It's an irrational fear and rejection of biology.
00:26:08.540
So what I'm saying is that these kids who have been quote unquote affirmed and were socially
00:26:14.340
transitioned lived as the opposite sex. And some of them were medicalized, had mastectomies,
00:26:20.860
you know, uh, had, had their appearance permanently changed, uh, by hormones, cross sex hormones and
00:26:29.940
blockers, which there are serious, serious changes that, that take place. You know, when you go on
00:26:37.700
blockers, you not only does that mean that you block, you know, growing breasts or, you know,
00:26:45.260
all these physical changes, the sexual, uh, secondary sexual characteristics, as we call them of puberty,
00:26:51.600
that's only what's what you see, you know, what you see physically, but the, it affects every
00:27:00.000
system of the body. Puberty is a process that is exquisitely, uh, complex as most biological processes
00:27:11.160
are. We do not understand puberty. We're just beginning to understand what it is. And, um,
00:27:19.300
it affects every system of the body, including of course, the brain. And there are vast, massive
00:27:26.220
changes that take place in the brain. When a child goes through natural puberty, when I say natural,
00:27:33.400
that means that a girl is permitted to, to experience the surge of estrogen, um, that's
00:27:41.200
going to happen, you know, when, when she enters puberty and for all those years, and then the same
00:27:48.060
for boys, the surge of, of testosterone, boys need testosterone and girls need estrogen in order to
00:27:56.940
develop normally a, in order for their brain to mature. The brain of a 25 year old is very different
00:28:04.580
than a brain of a 10 year old. And that's because they've gone through puberty and the centers in the
00:28:11.280
brain responsible for, uh, for, for rational thinking for, uh, considering consequences, looking at the pros and
00:28:23.180
cons of decisions, you know, weighing things out. That's the prefrontal cortex right behind the
00:28:30.380
forehead right here. That is the last area of the brain to develop. Now, if we prevent that development,
00:28:38.760
what's going to happen? They're going to continue, uh, functioning as a child. Now the proponents,
00:28:45.780
the advocates of, of, uh, gender affirming care would come and say at this point, well,
00:28:52.940
Dr. Grossman, that's not the case because we're going to be giving, yes, we're going to block the
00:28:58.100
estrogen for the girls and block the testosterone for the boys, but we're going to then go ahead and give
00:29:03.180
testosterone to the girls and estrogen for the boys so that they can go through puberty. It's just the
00:29:08.560
opposite sex puberty. Well, hello. We, we don't know what the outcome of that. We don't know the effects on the
00:29:15.800
brain of that. That is an experiment that is based on a small, uh, study that came out of the Netherlands,
00:29:24.400
uh, that was, that was undertaken in the nineties and the two thousands, a small group of young people,
00:29:32.740
about 55 kids. Uh, and, and, you know, that's another story that I tell in the book.
00:29:40.320
Sorry. I have to do. Oh, do it. Do it. Lost in translation. Get it. I have to do my publisher
00:29:50.240
told me to hold it up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Feel free. Go ahead. Okay. So this is called the Dutch
00:29:55.840
protocol and this is what affirming care is totally based on the Dutch protocol. The Dutch protocol has
00:30:03.700
many, many issues, many problems, but most importantly, what I want to explain is that the
00:30:11.560
kids that were included in this Dutch protocol, when they first started using blockers on normal
00:30:18.000
children, up to that point, blockers were only used on individuals with medical disorders. So the Dutch
00:30:25.720
came along and said, we're going to use blockers on normal children, but what did they do? They only
00:30:32.380
picked kids with using very strict criteria. One of the criteria is that they all had to have
00:30:40.880
early onset, severe gender dysphoria. So, you know, early onset, we're talking about toddlerhood
00:30:48.760
or, you know, uh, preschool day in and day out kids that were insisting that they were or want to be the
00:30:58.300
opposite sex. So that's very, very different from today's kids who are either just coming into puberty
00:31:06.400
or they are already in puberty, their adolescence. And most of them had no gender dysphoria,
00:31:12.800
no discomfort being male or female until that point. Plus they heard about this from the internet.
00:31:21.300
They learned about this from social media, from their friends, from sex education, from their
00:31:27.960
guidance counselor. That's an altogether different situation than these little kids that the Dutch
00:31:33.940
ended up putting blockers on, that it was an internal process. It was, it was something going on with them
00:31:41.400
psychologically, uh, that they, that they simply did not feel comfortable with their biology.
00:31:48.640
That's A. B, the Dutch would not include any kids who had serious or let's say even significant
00:31:59.900
mental health issues. You would just be out, out of the study if you had significant mental health
00:32:07.240
issues. Again, that's the opposite of the kids that we're looking at now. They have extremely
00:32:13.860
significant mental health issues. And what the gender affirming, uh, uh, proponents are now saying,
00:32:21.780
these, these zealots that are just, you know, foisting this onto us, they're saying, well, of course
00:32:29.680
they have mental health issues because they're transgender and because they're being forced to live in the
00:32:36.440
wrong body. Yeah. So you understand how upside down this is. Yeah. So in, I'm going to ask you
00:32:44.640
here to, uh, to see if you agree with this. And certainly as a psychiatrist, you're the right
00:32:49.560
person that I should be testing this theory. So in the parasitic mind, I, so let me, let me back up.
00:32:55.560
In 2010, I had written an academic paper and actually published in a medical journal where I was
00:33:00.780
talking about the Darwinian mechanisms that might explain Munchausen syndrome by proxy. And for those
00:33:08.780
of us who are not academics or psychiatrists, Munchausen syndrome is when I feign my own, you know,
00:33:15.840
medical situation to garner empathy, sympathy. Munchausen syndrome by proxy is when I have someone
00:33:21.760
under my care. It could be a pet. It could be an elderly parent. Most often it's a biological mother
00:33:27.060
with her biological child who will then harm them to garner by proxy, the empathy and sympathy.
00:33:32.660
So having written that paper in 2010, and when I was now writing the parasitic mind, you know,
00:33:38.160
a decade later, I coined the, the malady, uh, collective Munchausen and collective Munchausen by
00:33:46.060
sin, uh, by proxy to explain the orgiastic pursuit of victimology, whether it be real victimology or fake
00:33:53.140
victimology. So do you think, and, and therefore then I could apply transgenderism as a form of
00:34:00.480
Munchausen. Now in the case, for example, of Charlize Theron, it could be, you know, transgenderism,
00:34:07.000
Munchausen by proxy, because I adopt kids from Africa who are boys, and then I turn all of them into
00:34:14.500
girls where the statistics of that are insanely low. So do you think that that's a good framework to try to
00:34:20.960
understand some of this kind of orgiastic malady that we're facing, that it's a form of Munchausen?
00:34:28.580
Uh, in some cases, I have no doubt that that is, that that is true. However, we have to always keep
00:34:34.420
in mind when you're talking about the parents, they are being threatened that their kid is going to
00:34:39.520
commit suicide if they don't go with this. So you have to be very careful here. And I have a whole chapter
00:34:45.440
about parents, you know, and what it, what it, what they're going through, the hell that they go
00:34:51.480
through when they try to resist, uh, uh, you know, resist, uh, accepting their child as, uh, the opposite
00:35:01.140
sex. But yes, I certainly believe that there are cases, probably a lot of cases, unfortunately, and that
00:35:09.560
in where the mother's psychopathology, um, is behind her, what did you say? Orgiastic? How did you put
00:35:19.900
it? Orgiastic. That's great. Yeah. Well, I agree with you. That's, that's a great term. So do you have,
00:35:30.320
so just forgive me for interrupting you. So typically when one of the two parents is driving the,
00:35:37.900
the argument that my child is transgender without knowing the data, I'm going to predict it's much
00:35:44.700
more likely to be mothers than fathers. Am I right? Dr. Grossman? You're right. You are right.
00:35:52.620
Yes. Wow. Of course that's the case. And you know, there's many lawsuits. I've been involved with a few
00:35:58.460
cases now in court in which divorced parents are fighting it out over transitioning the kid.
00:36:05.020
And it's always the dad who's fighting it. Why is that? You're a dad. Why is that?
00:36:12.580
Well, I'll put the link to my paper from 2010 that explains why it is biological mothers that are
00:36:19.980
most likely to suffer from Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The reason I became interested in it
00:36:24.380
is because from an evolutionary perspective, you would think the exact opposite should happen,
00:36:31.160
right? Because we know that there's no such thing as maternity uncertainty for humans, but there is
00:36:36.560
paternity uncertainty. So you, if you, so you would think that the fathers would be more likely to be
00:36:41.680
the ones who harm their children on purpose. And yet in this case, we have the exact opposite mechanism,
00:36:46.740
but I want to get back since your book, as, as you said at the start of your, is not an intellectual
00:36:51.940
exercise, but a practical how to. So tell us how your, your child comes to you and says,
00:36:58.800
stop calling me, John, I'm Linda. What are the steps that as a caring parent, I want to listen to
00:37:05.780
my child, but I know that it's likely a social contagion. What are the, you know, prescription
00:37:10.980
that I can follow to try to combat this without having social services come and take my child away
00:37:15.780
from me? Yeah. Which, uh, thanks for mentioning that because I also have, uh, I have appendices
00:37:22.260
that are written. Some of them are written by attorneys and they explain to the family, what are
00:37:28.800
your rights regarding child protective services? What are your rights regarding schools? I mean,
00:37:35.420
this is in the U S I don't know how much of it would apply to Canada, but parents have constitutional
00:37:41.460
rights to, uh, be in charge of their child's education. And so I'm providing parents ahead
00:37:48.780
of time. Okay. Once your kid comes to you and says, mom, I'm not your son. I'm your daughter.
00:37:53.760
You know, you're already, that's, that's already, that's, that's going to be pretty tough. Uh, I do
00:37:59.540
give a lot of advice for those parents, including the first conversation. Okay. So I want to provide
00:38:05.620
parents before that conversation ever happens. I want them to have a model, uh, uh, parent child
00:38:14.760
conversation, how to deal with that request when your child comes to you and says this,
00:38:20.800
and it's a lengthy chapter, uh, and, and, and the parent and the child go back and forth and a lot
00:38:27.040
of issues come up, but the overriding message is number one, to try not to freak out. You can freak
00:38:35.340
out later, try to stay calm, uh, and be curious. So what you, what you want to do in that first
00:38:47.100
conversation is to ask a lot of questions and to be curious and to tell your child, I see that this
00:38:56.840
is important to you. So it's also important to me. I'm going to, I'm going to read everything I can get
00:39:04.440
my hands on so that I can understand this better. And we are going to help you. However, at the same
00:39:13.460
time, I am not using a different name. I am not using different pronouns. Now I remind parents that
00:39:25.160
they have to be the adult adults have to be living in reality, emotionally healthy people live in
00:39:34.940
reality. Uh, so they have to represent reality. And the reality is that their son cannot be turned
00:39:42.780
into their daughter and their daughter cannot be turned into their son. And I, I give them the
00:39:49.680
confidence, you know, I give them the biology. And again, you don't need a PhD. I explain everything
00:39:56.220
in a way that anyone could read and understand that this is simply an impossibility. And that
00:40:02.700
while there are extremely rare kids who, uh, you know, fit into that category of childhood onset
00:40:11.480
gender dysphoria, a, if their kid is only coming to them later on, you know, as a pre-adolescent or
00:40:18.460
an adolescent or young adult, they're not in that category. They're not, you know, I explained that
00:40:25.400
gender dysphoria is a, is, is, is a symptom. For example, like fever, fever is a symptom. It can occur
00:40:32.540
in many different kinds of conditions. You can have an infection. You can have, uh, I don't know,
00:40:39.340
a cancer can cause a fever. I mean, there's, there's many different conditions that cause
00:40:44.300
fevers. You can have an autoimmune disease, but you don't, you don't put all these cases to lump
00:40:52.300
them together and say, Oh, they're all a fever. This is how we treat them. And that's what gender
00:40:58.080
affirming care does. It takes every single case of people per individual, whether it's a four-year-old
00:41:06.840
or a 50 year old. Okay. A four-year-old girl who's autistic or a 50 year old man who's been a
00:41:16.060
cross-dresser for 30 years and says, Oh, you know, this is the same, the same thing. That is,
00:41:22.920
that is not what we do in medicine. Um, we look at, at, at, uh, we, we, we look at the symptom and we
00:41:31.980
look at what's causing it. And so with these kids that have gender dysphoria as adolescents and they
00:41:39.200
develop it quickly, what's called rapid onset dysphoria. I explain what that's all about. I educate
00:41:46.300
parents. So with rapid onset dysphoria, you see their new identity is a solution to something.
00:41:54.000
That's the way we have to look at it. What is it a solution to? Is it a girl who is fearful of,
00:42:03.640
of, of becoming sexualized, you know, getting a woman's body and then, you know, and hates the
00:42:10.380
way that men are looking at her. Is she afraid of being abused? Is she attracted to other girls?
00:42:17.820
Does she think perhaps that if she's a boy, then she's heterosexual, you know, then she's attracted
00:42:23.320
to, I mean, there's all kinds of reasons. I'd mentioned John Money a few months, a few minutes
00:42:28.920
ago. John Money did not want to be his father. He unfortunately was led to believe that this
00:42:37.600
male model of masculinity, that's, that's what being a man needs. He didn't understand that
00:42:43.300
there's many different kinds of men. There are gentle men. There are wonderful, gentle, patient,
00:42:49.560
emotionally expressive and supportive men. He didn't have to hate his biology in order to be
00:42:56.980
that way. So what I'm trying to say, what did you ask me? It doesn't matter. This is great. Keep
00:43:03.060
going. Okay. What I, what I want parents. Oh, oh, you asked me about the recipe for how to handle it as
00:43:10.460
a parent. All right. So I do give a lot of practical tips on how to handle it, but even
00:43:17.240
more importantly, I want to reach the parents who have yet to go through this, that it may be in
00:43:23.780
their future. And I'm telling them that they can immunize their families against this social
00:43:29.500
contagion against, as you would call this pathogenic idea, right? That's the, that's the,
00:43:35.360
right. So you can immunize your family. How from an early age, I want children to know
00:43:42.940
that they are in the right body. Their body is perfect. That they, they became, they were
00:43:50.780
there, that, that sex is established at conception. So little kids can be told way before they were
00:43:59.240
born. The instant that they, that they were created, that instant, nine months before they
00:44:06.020
were born, they were either a boy or a girl. And that is permanent and that can never change. And
00:44:12.420
that's perfect. Now, if they happen to be a boy that has more feminine interests, fine. That's fine.
00:44:19.740
There are all kinds of boys. And if it's a girl that has stereotypical, you know, sports and STEM and
00:44:26.880
doesn't like to wear dresses, big deal. Kids are being told now, you know, these stereotypes that
00:44:34.660
in my generation, we were fighting those stereotypes. And now those stereotypes are coming back by the
00:44:42.060
gender ideologues. And they're telling kids, well, you know what, you're a girl, you like science,
00:44:48.140
you don't like, you know, reading and you don't, you're not into boys and makeup, you know, you,
00:44:53.380
you might be a boy. Can you imagine such a horrific message to give to a child that they're born in the
00:45:00.080
wrong body? Wow. What, what percentage of it? Maybe there isn't actual objective data on this,
00:45:07.160
but if I can ask you to speculate, if we look at all psychiatrists, say, you know, American Psychiatric
00:45:13.240
Association, and we were to pull them as to, you know, I am totally for the transgender, you know,
00:45:20.260
positions versus I'm in the Miriam Grossman camp. Do we have a sense of, you know, how much the
00:45:27.500
parasitic ideas have spread amongst psychiatrists? Are most people on your side? Or are you the pariah
00:45:35.040
that needs to be, you know, that needs to lose her medical license? Where do we, where are we
00:45:39.060
standing in these parasitic infestations? Okay. Well, in speaking out and in writing about it,
00:45:44.500
I am the pariah and also in refusing to affirm kids in my office, um, to a certain degree, not a
00:45:51.740
pariah, but you know, there aren't that many of us. Um, you know, because they're too afraid to speak,
00:45:57.080
but they're on your side or are they actually believing in their nonsense? Okay. I understand
00:46:01.500
your question. And I, and I have been dreaming for years of how can we do an anonymous poll among my
00:46:08.740
colleagues in psychiatry and psychology. I would so love to do that. Um, it hasn't been done. And I
00:46:14.680
want your audience to understand that when these associations, these medical groups come out with
00:46:20.900
statements, policy statements, and so forth, they have not, they have, it does not represent a consensus.
00:46:27.720
I'm going to answer your question in a minute, Dr. Satt. Okay. I really am. But I want your listeners to
00:46:32.880
know that when, when, you know, for example, Admiral Dr. Rachel Levine of health and human services in
00:46:39.680
Washington, DC stand up, stands up and says, there is a medical consensus that kids have to be affirmed
00:46:47.780
and have to be given this, be put on this medical assembly line. There is no such consensus. There is
00:46:55.000
no consensus whatsoever. There is no referendum of the members of these academies and these associations.
00:47:02.880
Now, to answer your question, I believe, you know, the big surprise, the younger you are, the more likely
00:47:10.440
that you, you know, if you're a young doctor who's, you know, gone through the indoctrination as part of
00:47:15.800
their training, um, they're more likely to be indoctrinated. But I will tell you this, the American, uh, Academy of
00:47:23.600
Pediatrics, 67,000 members, um, they came out in 2018 with a policy statement that, by the way, it was written
00:47:32.820
by one pediatrician and it was just a, a regurgitation of the, the whole thing, you know, the whole
00:47:40.380
ideology, you know, this, all the language, cisgender and, you know, non-binary and, you know, the whole
00:47:48.380
thing, the kids know best, you know, give them the blockers, every, the whole deal. So they came out with
00:47:55.220
this in 2018. And, and, and in the past few years, there have been groups of pediatricians that are
00:48:01.880
members of the American Academy of Pediatrics who are calling for a, a, you know, a, a, a debate,
00:48:10.900
a, um, you know, they're saying, we have to look at this. Listen, guys, you know, we don't have the
00:48:17.260
evidence to be saying this. And, um, the way our policy statement stands right now, we are sterilizing
00:48:25.580
children. And so there have been proposals that have been put forth, uh, you know, within that
00:48:32.860
bureaucratic system that the American Academy of Pediatrics has, and again, I explain it in, in my
00:48:39.180
book, what's going on, the American Academy of Pediatrics. And there was 20, 24 pediatricians,
00:48:46.760
signed a proposal simply saying, we have to look at this more closely. We have to look at the evidence
00:48:55.180
because, um, all these foreign countries, Sweden, Finland, uh, Norway, uh, you know, England, they have
00:49:05.240
all done reviews of the literature and they have all done a 180 and they are no longer, uh, uh, promoting,
00:49:12.500
well, they practically banning, basically banning these medical interventions that we are putting
00:49:19.160
kids on like candy. Now I'm getting back. I haven't forgotten your question. Okay. Um, during COVID,
00:49:26.720
uh, there was this proposal for the American Academy of Pediatrics was put out there to all the members
00:49:35.480
to see how many would approve of such a proposal, uh, you know, just to look at it, just to look at
00:49:43.540
their policy on gender affirming care, 80%, 80% of the membership. I hope I'm getting this right.
00:49:51.620
I think I'm getting, I know that it's 80%. Yeah. Was, was, was, uh, would support the Academy,
00:49:59.760
uh, you know, going back and looking at this again and reexamining it and perhaps coming out with a
00:50:07.500
different policy statement, but this proposal keeps on just being ignored. Okay. What's going on?
00:50:15.740
I want parents to know that pediatricians, psychiatrists, endocrinologists who, who are
00:50:23.120
not comfortable with this and who oppose it, um, are being silenced. They're just being ignored,
00:50:30.500
silenced. They're not given a platform. They write articles. The articles aren't published.
00:50:35.080
They try to have, um, you know, panel discussions at the annual meetings of these associations.
00:50:42.660
They are not given the opportunity even to have a panel discussion. So, uh, our, our opinions are
00:50:50.700
just simply being squashed. And this is happening in the medical associations that you trust. And I
00:50:58.140
don't blame parents for trust. I used to trust. I mean, are you kidding? When you go to medical school
00:51:04.220
and you go do your training in any field of medicine, you just, it is inculcated in you that
00:51:11.240
you trust your medical associations. You turn to them for guidance. And sadly, we cannot do that in
00:51:19.040
this area. What do you think? Maybe this will be the last question. Cause I'm, I want to be mindful
00:51:23.900
of your time. And then if, if possible, if you have a minute or two, I'd like to ask you a sort of
00:51:29.040
somewhat unrelated question just for my subscribers, it'll be like a 30 second to 60 second thing.
00:51:33.520
But last question in this interview, what do you think has allowed you? So to use the parlance from
00:51:41.500
my book, I, the, in the parasitic mind, in the last chapter, I talk about activating your inner
00:51:47.060
honey badger, right? Because the honey badger is a very, very fierce animal that doesn't take nonsense
00:51:52.160
from anybody. I mean, adult lions are afraid of this animal that's the size of a small dog. And so when I
00:51:58.660
tell people to activate their inner honey badger, I don't mean it, it's not a call to violence, but
00:52:03.380
it's, it's a call for ideological defense of your positions. You certainly are Dr. Grossman, a honey
00:52:09.720
badger. Is this something that you are born with and therefore we can't, you know, inculcate in others?
00:52:17.000
Or is there a way for us to take your message, let's say in lost and trans nation and create an army of
00:52:23.780
honey badgers? I think that there is an element of genetics, at least in my part. I, uh, thinking
00:52:32.720
back to my father, may he rest in peace, a Holocaust survivor and a fighter, a fighter for truth. Um,
00:52:40.620
so I think, I mean, genetic or having to do with what kind of home you're raised in, but certainly
00:52:47.340
you can create honey badgers. Absolutely. I think it's a question of, um, people recognizing that,
00:52:55.360
that they're not alone, that they are, you know, they're not isolated sitting at home alone and
00:53:01.000
just thinking, what the heck is going on with this? You know, am I the only person in the world that
00:53:05.560
thinks that this is insane and horrible? And, and, you know, I get so many emails and people have so
00:53:12.460
much belief to know, you know, to hear my voice and the voices of others. I mean, I'm far from the
00:53:18.240
only person, but you know, and, and it empowers them. It empowers them. And I, and even if it's
00:53:25.060
something relatively small, you don't have to go out and write a book, but if you can just get on
00:53:30.480
your social media and say, look, you know, listen to this lady, you know, by her woman, listen to this
00:53:36.940
woman, I should say, right? This cisgender woman, cisgender. No, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't
00:53:45.440
accept the language. Um, so, so anyway, how do you know without asking me that I'm cisgender?
00:53:54.700
That's true. Forgive me for being presumptuous. Uh, stay on the line. Please go out. I'm speaking
00:54:00.920
out to my, to my audience. Please go out tomorrow. It drops lost and trans nation. You will not be
00:54:06.780
disappointed. Miriam, such a pleasure having you stay on the line. I'd like to ask you one more
00:54:11.000
question for my subscribers. What a delight and pleasure. I'm, I'm going to quickly rush out and
00:54:15.740
follow you on Twitter. You've been a delight and a true honor to speak to you today. Thank you so much.