Piers Morgan vs Prof. Gad Saad- Sydney Sweeney, Elon Musk, & Cultural Insanity (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_687)
Episode Stats
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Summary
Jonathan Glazer renounces his Jewish identity in a speech at the Oscars, and a cultural controversy erupts over it. Dan Sadeh and Piers Grinsberg respond to the backlash, and the open letter to the Jewish creatives, executives, and Hollywood professionals in response.
Transcript
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The woke mind virus is arguably the greatest existential threat that humanity faces.
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If you have the chance to sit down with arguably one of the most sought after people in the world,
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then maybe you should approach it with a bit of pragmatism.
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If AI does become sentient, it really could be Armageddon, couldn't it?
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I think Elon and I see eye to eye when we say that much bigger than the COVID virus
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are the mind viruses that are burrowing in our brains.
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Dan Saad is a professor, a best-selling author, an expert in evolutionary psychology,
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probably best known for scathing and sardonic rebukes of contemporary cultural insanity.
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Men now who have nine-inch penises can be women.
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They simply have to declare themselves women and voila, they become women.
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Millions enjoy his sarcastic diatribes on X. Elon Musk counts himself as a fan.
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And amid the fallout from Musk's disastrous interview with Don Lemon...
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Do you believe that X and you have some responsibility to moderate
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I don't have to answer questions from the reporters.
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Don, the only reason I'm doing this interview is because you're on the X platform and you asked for it.
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The Hollywood backlash to Jonathan Glazer renouncing his Jewishness,
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and a cultural dispute about Sidney Sweeney, author of The Parasitic Mind,
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how infectious ideas are killing common sense, returns to Uncentred.
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Thank you. I'm doing well, Piers. I'm still waiting for those invitations to go watch an Arsenal game together.
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You know what? We're going to win the Premier League and you must come.
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Gag, let's start with this. I want to start with Jonathan Glazer.
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So this was a moment at the Oscars, probably the only political moment, actually, that happened all night.
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So you've got this guy who's an Oscar-winning director, and in his acceptance speech, he says this.
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All our choices were made to reflect and confront us in the present,
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not to say, look what they did then, rather, look what we do now.
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Our film shows where dehumanisation leads at its worst. It shaped all of our past and present.
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Right now, we stand here as men who refute their Jewishness and the Holocaust being hijacked by an occupation
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which has led to conflict for so many innocent people. Whether the victims of October...
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So it's interesting. There was an outbreak of applause, but not by everyone, by any means.
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And there's now been an open letter response. I think over a thousand people have now signed this.
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And it says, we are Jewish creatives, executives and Hollywood professionals.
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We refute our Jewishness being hijacked for the purpose of drawing a moral equivalence between
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a Nazi regime that sought to exterminate a race of people and an Israeli nation that seeks to avert
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its own extermination. So you've got a lot of backlash there to what Jonathan Glazer said.
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First of all, your reaction to that speech he made.
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So let me contextualise it by giving a few similar situations that have taken place.
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Several years ago, a doctoral student at Hebrew University, a Jewish doctoral student
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by the name of Tal Nitzan, was trying to demonstrate through her research that the IDF engages in rampant
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rape of Palestinian women. She did the research and to her dismay, she found out that there wasn't a
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single documented case of an IDF soldier raping a Palestinian woman. You know what she concluded,
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Pierce? She concluded that the IDF soldiers are so grotesque in their dehumanisation that they're not
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even willing to rape a Palestinian woman. So if they had raped the women, they're evil. And if they
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don't rape any women, they're evil. That's what parasitic self-loathing is. Here's one more example.
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There's a gentleman in Norway that had been raped by a Somali immigrant in 2011,
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a man who had been sodomised by a Somali immigrant. When that Somali immigrant was going to be deported,
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the Norwegian man felt very, very guilty that he would now have a bad life in Somalia.
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So this is what Jonathan Glazer is doing. He's basically saying, please believe me that I am
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a virtuous, progressive person. And in doing so, I'm rejecting my Jewish identity. You could be
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empathetic towards the innocent killing of any people without rejecting your identity. He's grotesque.
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I mean, his movie was about the Holocaust. He says he's been misrepresented as to what he was
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saying. And I guess the overview in defense of him is, have we now reached a point where you can't,
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as a Jewish person, criticise Israel and its government and its actions in response to October
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the 7th without effectively looking like you're being disloyal to Jewish people?
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No, I think it's perfectly fair to criticise endless Israeli policies. That's what makes it
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a vibrant democracy. But to say that I reject my Jewishness, listen, the people who wanted to kill
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us when I grew up in Lebanon wouldn't have cared about beheading me whether I rejected my Jewishness
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or not. If he had been at that music festival and said, hey guys, Hamas, don't kill me. I reject
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my Jewishness. They wouldn't have listened and been sympathetic to him. So you could both chew gum and
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walk at the same time. You could criticise Israeli policies all you want without comparing what's
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happening now in Israel and Gaza to the Holocaust, which is an offensive comparison, or in rejecting your
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own identity, which you should be proud of. What is your view of where we are with this war right now?
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Look, it's tragic. People think that, oh, I am pro-genocide and all this kind of stuff. I've got
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more Muslim friends than most people will ever meet. Any innocent person that is ever killed
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unnecessarily is a grotesque injustice, cosmically. But the reality is we have to look at what started
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all this, right? People have what I call amnesia of causality. They no longer remember that October 7th
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happened, right? Had we been today where we were on October 6th, none of this would have ever happened.
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And so, listen, you mess around, you find out what happened. It's regrettable that people are dying.
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But if the Palestinians were to existentially be willing to accept the fact that they're going to
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have Jewish neighbours, I think this problem would be solved in the future.
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But that suggests that most Palestinians would be supportive of a two-state solution or living
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side by side peacefully alongside Jewish people. There's not much evidence that that is actually
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the case. I mean, Hamas still maintains huge support in all the polling from the majority of Palestinians.
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Listen, there is a Pew survey that came out several years ago that looked at the rate of
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Jew hatred from many of these countries, Egypt, my homeland of Lebanon, Palestinian territories,
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Syria, and so on. And you have rates of endemic Jew hatred that vary from 95 to 99%. So we're not
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talking about an anomalous group of three out of a hundred that hate the Jews. The great majority
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express hatred of the Jews, not Zionists, of Jews. And so as long as you have that ideological reality,
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you will never have peace. Once you get rid of that hatred, there is such richness in that region
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Can you bomb, bomb, bomb a very small area like Gaza, where 50% of the population are under 18,
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killing thousands and thousands of children, and not expect there to be ongoing massive problems in
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terms of an ideological hatred of those who've done this?
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I agree. It's almost an intractable problem. If they were to do nothing, that would be a problem.
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If they respond in the rather ferocious way that they have, they're going to lose the court of public
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opinion. So really, they truly are behind the proverbial rock and a hard place in that if they were to
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mitigate their response, that wouldn't be optimal. And if they respond maximally the way they are,
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endless innocent people are going to die. So I don't have a clear solution for that. I mean,
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do you have any better solution than anything that Israel is doing?
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Well, this has been my refrain from the very start of this, which is,
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I don't know what is proportionate for a response. If you are wedded to the idea of eliminating Hamas,
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a terror group of about 30 to 35,000 terrorists, if you're wedded to doing that, and you have the
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vast support as Netanyahu and his government do from Israeli people to do that, and Hamas are
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embedded amongst civilian population in the way that they clearly are, I don't know how you achieve
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that mission endgame without what they're doing and the inevitable casualties that come with it with
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civilians. The question is, is that going to be the right way to gain peace and security after all
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this? And that's where I have a real issue with what Israel's doing, because they're losing
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international support very quickly, even the support of the Americans, right to the highest level,
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the president. And by flattening most of Gaza and killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians,
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as well as Hamas terrorists, and now pushing them all into a refugee camp where you're now
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planning to attack that as well. I just don't know how this doesn't all just end very, very badly,
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an almighty social and political mess. And I see no prospect of peace anytime soon in my lifetime.
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Regrettably, and I hate to say it because I'm a very optimistic guy, a very jovial guy,
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a guy who wrote a book on happiness. I share your pessimism. And I'm very, very regretful to say
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so. But I think I share your view. It's very sad. Let's move on to something which is more kind
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of entertaining, I think, than something we should take too seriously. But Don Lemon, who, full
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disclosure, I worked at CNN with him when I worked there. In fact, he got my old office when I left.
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But I've always got on fire with Don. He got fired by CNN. Elon Musk rise to the rescue like the cavalry,
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says, I'll give you a show on X, pays him a few million dollars to do this. And I know some of the
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team Don has. They used to work with me. All seemed very, very positive for Don and a great comeback story
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for him. And then he decided to do Elon Musk, the owner, obviously, of X as his first guest. Elon agrees.
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And it all goes horribly wrong. And this is one of the many awkward moments in the interview.
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Hate speech on the platform is up. Do you believe that X and you have some responsibility to moderate
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hate speech on the platform? That you wouldn't have to answer these questions from reporters about the
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great replacement theory as it relates to Democrats? I don't have to answer these questions.
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Great replacement theory as it relates to Jewish people. Do you think that?
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I don't have to answer questions from reporters. Don, the only reason I'm doing this interview is
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because you're on the X platform and you ask for it. Otherwise, I would not do this interview.
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So you don't think you do you think that you wouldn't get in trouble or you wouldn't be
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criticized for these things? I'm criticized constantly. I could care less.
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You know, what was interesting to me, Gab, was I had an interview with Elon lined up in early January,
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which he canceled at the last minute when he discovered from a random tweet, actually,
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by somebody who tweeted this. It was a clip from an interview I'd done a month before with a guy called
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Zuby. And we were debating whether Elon should have let Alex Jones back onto the platform.
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The guy who, of course, defamed all the Sandy Hook parents. Now, I covered that story in America at the
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time. I was very personally invested in it. We'd had a similar thing in Britain with 16 children killed
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in Dunblane in Scotland. I was a newspaper editor at the time. I led a campaign to have a lot of guns
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banned in Britain, which happened. And we've not had a mass shooting pretty much since then.
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I think there's been one mass shooting in the next 30 or so years. And I'm very proud of that.
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So this was personal to me, albeit in a country where the culture is very different when it comes
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to guns. But I then cut forward to Alex Jones and what he said about the Sandy Hook families,
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pouring misery onto their grief and ending up with a billion dollar defamation finding against him.
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And I thought for all those reasons, Elon's original instinct, which was to not let him
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back on X when he was first asked about it, was correct. And his decision to reverse that was
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wrong. Now, I didn't think that was particularly contentious, nor would it be remotely surprising
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to anybody who'd followed me reporting on the story before or Alex Jones. Alex Jones had a petition
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to have me deported from America, literally wanted me cancelled from the entire country.
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So I felt all was fair in love and war. But Elon said, no, I've lost respect for you. I'm
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cancelling out our interview, despite never having met me. And I only tell that story again,
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because it kind of puts into context what went down with Don Lemon. I think Elon is a genius.
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I think he's one of the smartest people in the world. He's certainly one of the richest and most
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successful. I think generally he's a force for good. I think if you look at Tesla, SpaceX,
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and the way he's trying to go about making X a genuine platform of free speech, I'm completely
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supportive of him in these missions. But he clearly does have a very thin skin. And when I watched
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large swathes of that interview with Don Lemon, Don Lemon did that interview exactly how I expected
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Don Lemon to do it. I'm just surprised that Elon was taken by surprise.
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Well, so I don't presume to speak for Elon, although we have, I'm happy to report, become
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good friends, very friendly. We chatted recently and so on. Look, I'm not sure that Elon has a
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thick skin. I think he's got a huge bullseye on him. He gets attacked more times than a human mind
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could fathom. And he proceeds to be a very productive and as you said, a historically important
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person. Now, from my perspective, if you have the chance to sit down with arguably one of the most
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sought after people in the world, then maybe you should approach it with a bit of pragmatism,
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right? There is a smugness. There is an entitlement. There is an obnoxiousness. There is a oozing
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chutzpah. And you don't have to be a fancy evolutionary psychologist to pick that up in Don Lemon.
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So if I were sitting, and I'm also someone who's not particularly thin-skinned, but I do have honor,
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I would be pissed if I'm giving you my very valuable time and you don't use it in a more
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appropriate manner, right? When I sat down with Elon, we were joking around, but we also discussed some
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very interesting things. But the reason why he was relaxed is because he knew that there was not going
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to be a gotcha moment. I just want to explore your brilliant mind. Let's have a fun, instructive
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conversation. And from that perspective, I think that Don blew it.
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You know, the irony is that's exactly the kind of interview I wanted to have with Elon. And I've
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messaged him saying, look, can we have another go at this? Because I genuinely have always been
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very supportive of him. It was only the Alex Jones thing. I mean, out of interest, what was your view
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of Alex Jones? I mean, do you think there should be a limit on the kind of people that are allowed on X?
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No, I'm actually very much, Pierce, a free speech absolutist. And the example that I like to give
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is despite my personal history in the Middle East, despite being Jewish, I support the right of
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Holocaust deniers to spew their endless nonsense. And so you can't be a free speech absolutist and say,
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no, but not for this case. I'm a free speech absolutist, but not for Donald Trump. I believe
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in journalistic integrity, but not when it comes to Hunter Biden's laptop, in which case we should
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have all colluded to suppress it. That's what a consequentialist ethic is. That's wrong, right?
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There are certain principles that have to be deontological, meaning they're absolute foundational
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positions that you never violate, short of the regular caveats. You can't defame,
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you can't directly incite the violence, right? You could criticize Judaism all you want till pigs fly,
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but you can't say, let's go to the corner of 6th and Broadway and kill the Jews when they come out
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of the synagogue. Short of that, all bets are off. Anything is allowed to be said and let better
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ideas defeat idiotically. What if you've spewed lies about the families of people who had their
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children murdered in school? I mean, Elon's initial position on that was he wouldn't let people who
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stand on the graves of dead children on the platform, who made money on it. So I'm not a lawyer,
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so I hope I'm not misspeaking, but then wouldn't the mechanism of a lawsuit on defamation be something
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that would resolve that? So in other words- Well, that's the point. My point was they did sue
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the families and they won a billion dollars in the defamation case, one of the biggest awards in
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history. Alex Jones, to date, I don't think has paid a dollar to the families. And just to remind
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people who may not be familiar with what he did, he deliberately lied about the event being staged
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by actors and it was all a fake, the government had been behind it and so on. He actually exposed
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some of the family members to abuse in the streets, to threats. In one case, people turned up at the
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graveside of one of the poor children who got blown to pieces at school and urinated on the tombstone
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because they believed the whole thing was a fake. And I just felt that in totality, that that made
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somebody who should not be given a platform, actually, like X. And I agree with Elon's first
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view about it. That's why I found his kind of, what I perceive to be an overreaction to
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cancelling our interview on that one thing, a little bit surprising because to me, there are
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some limits. I mean, if Adolf Hitler was on X right now, spewing his hateful views of Jewish people,
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I would assume that Elon Musk would have him removed.
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It's going to shock you what I'm going to say. By the way, there are endless, on any given day,
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incredible anti-Semites that come after me. And yet I would never presume to call Elon and say,
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hey, Elon, you should see the stuff that they're saying about me. Please take them off. And so I
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walk the walk and I talk the talk. Part of being in a free society is to be able to withstand
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cretins, falsehood spreaders, liars, racists, Jew haters. Again, as long as you don't defame,
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as long as you don't directly incite the violence, all bets are off.
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I want to play a little clip from your interview with Elon. This is about where he talks about
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All of these parasitic ideas originated from the university ecosystem. So can we be optimistic that
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we could turn this thing around, Elon, or are we just screaming in the wind?
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Well, I think we have to be optimistic. I agree with my general philosophy is that it's better to be
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on the side of being optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.
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It was also another bit I like on fame, happiness and money. And you put to him the thesis of your
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new book, the happiness and money are only linked up to a point below $100,000. And he actually
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agreed with you, which given he's worth about $250 billion was quite funny. Let's take a listen.
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In fact, I'd say there's a decrease in happiness that occurs when the fame level exceeds that which
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is useful. So there's a certain modicum of fame where you can now get, it's easy to get a reservation
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at a restaurant. That's like you want that level of fame and not anything beyond it.
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I kind of know what he means. It's like having been anonymous and famous, never as famous as him,
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obviously, but having experienced both. There's a lot to be said for anonymity. And once you lose it,
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you never really get it back, however hard you try. And Elon Musk is impossibly famous now,
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staggeringly rich, the victim of a lot of hate, as you say, and death threats. And I do think he's
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trying to be a force for good in the world. I think that's his driving, motivating factor.
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You got an amazing response to a tweet, which Elon retweeted this week. It's had 30 million views.
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And you just said that illegal immigrants better than legal citizens, criminals better than victims,
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squatters better than homeowners, transgender women better than women, twerking drag queens better than
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children. And you made the point that if you subscribe to this, then we really are going to
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hell in the hanker. Were you taken by surprise by the response?
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I mean, in the sense that it always amazes me that today you can put out a tweet and 30 million
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people can view it. I mean, let's contextualize that in comparison to the velocity at which things
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move in scientific knowledge. If I publish a peer-reviewed paper and it is successful,
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it means typically, Pierce, that five years after it's published, it might be cited by a hundred other
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scholars. So I need to work three to five years on a project and go through a very, very rigorous
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peer-review process to hope that a hundred of my scientific colleagues pay attention to my work.
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I put up a tweet and it gets shown by 30 million people, which by the way, creates a conundrum for
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academics like me, because while I remain very much committed to the idea of publishing scientific
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papers, it's tough to walk away from the influence that you can wield by using social media platforms
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today. So I try to thread that needle as best as I can.
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There was one other bit from the interview you did with Elon this week, which I liked.
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This was about the doomsday scenario. If AI is allowed to continue being obviously transparently
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It's going to be leading to some pretty dangerous and bizarre outcomes. And it could actually,
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like, if it's been taught, like, that misgendering is worse than a nuclear war, it may decide that
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to avoid misgendering, it should start a nuclear war. That's like, the surefire way to stop any
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I mean, he's kind of joking, but he's kind of not. I think if AI does become sentient and
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it's been guided by very woke minds, human minds to think a certain way, then it really could be
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Absolutely. And I mean, I think one of the reasons why, you know, my 2020 book, The Parasitic Mind,
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resonated so much with people is because I basically argue, and I think that's one of the
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ways that Elon and I first connected. He also argues that the woke mind virus is arguably the
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greatest existential threat that humanity faces. Because, you know, all of the tragedies that we
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typically think of originally start off in the mind of some deranged lunatic, right? Whether it be
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Hitler or whether it be the super progressive academics that have been poisoning the minds of
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our children, it results in a departure from reason. So I think Elon and I see eye to eye when we say that
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much bigger than the COVID virus are the mind viruses that are burrowing in our brains.
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The talking of mind viruses, we've got this big debate at the moment raging about
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Sidney Sweeney, who's this breakout star, particularly since the recent appearance on
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Saturday Night Live, and Dylan Mulvaney, who's a breakout star for slightly different reasons.
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And a meme went viral showing a picture of Sidney Sweeney next to Dylan Mulvaney and asking,
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which way Western man? To which you responded on X by saying, Sidney Sweeney is breathtaking.
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So I'll be right in thinking you've taken sides there, Gad.
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Well, of course, I have since learned that for me to have picked a woman that had a vagina rather
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than a penis made me transphobic. I still couldn't help but allow my biological imperative to find
00:24:17.480
Sweeney slightly more attractive than the equally beautiful other woman with a penis.
00:24:22.880
How did your wife respond to your obvious overwhelming adoration of Sidney Sweeney?
00:24:29.360
We are in negotiations right now to see if I am allowed a hall pass were Sidney Sweeney to become
00:24:37.740
I think it might be quite a long queue of men trying to get that hall pass.
00:24:41.160
But it's interesting, the Dylan Mulvaney thing, because I'm pretty cynical about it, I have to say.
00:24:45.360
You've got someone who was an openly self-declared gay man to their mid-twenties,
00:24:50.280
suddenly decides they want to identify as a woman, and then spends the next two years apparently mocking
00:24:55.840
womanhood and making it sound very imbecilic and pathetic, frankly, including a latest pop video
00:25:06.860
What do you think of this? I mean, should we just, as a society, be compelled to go along with this
00:25:12.400
and say, well, obviously, if Dylan Mulvaney says that they're a woman, we should call them she
00:25:18.360
and say they're a woman? Or do we, as a society, say, actually, if you're going to mock women like this
00:25:23.440
and you were a gay man to your mid-twenties, we're just not having it?
00:25:26.940
No. As a matter of fact, I appeared, both Jordan Peterson and I appeared in 2017
00:25:31.840
in front of the Canadian Senate, where we exactly warned about the slippery slope that was coming,
00:25:37.460
right? I can be fully empathetic to the rights of people to live free of bigotry, as I do,
00:25:43.720
right? I mean, if you want to be transgender, go for it. But that doesn't mean that you take me
00:25:48.740
on a ride to celebrate your unique personhood, right? You don't get to remove from my passport
00:25:53.980
my marker as a biological male, because you might be upset because you're a non-binary person that
00:26:00.160
doesn't subscribe to the typical antiquated binary norms, right? So again, I can walk and chew gum at
00:26:06.660
the same time. I can be empathetic to the fact that you should live free of bigotry, but that doesn't
00:26:11.360
mean that I have to orgiastically celebrate your delusion. Yeah, I think I'm with you. Now,
00:26:16.520
as a very female perspective has gone viral on Sydney Sweeney, this is about what women should do
00:26:23.080
to men like yourself, Gad, who may have a slight obsession with Sydney.
00:26:27.380
Aw, your boyfriend has a crush on Sydney Sweeney? You should break up with him so he can go date
00:26:32.460
her. Oh, he doesn't have a chance with her. Oh, that's not... OK, he doesn't have a chance with
00:26:37.700
her, but he's obsessing over her, even though he has a real-life relationship with you. What a
00:26:42.640
weirdo that he's obsessing over women that he has no chance with, at the expense of his relationship
00:26:47.840
with you. You should break up. Gad, are you concerned that Mrs. Sad may have seen that
00:26:54.300
clip and got some ideas? Well, I actually, just so that I could be in the clear, when I
00:27:01.100
made the proclamation of my admiration for Sweeney, I retweeted that and I tagged my wife. I don't know
00:27:07.680
if you saw it. That way, if she were to now attack me, I'd say, but sweetie, I was completely
00:27:14.060
open with you. Well, you can't last in a 24-year marriage if you don't know how to
00:27:19.460
be a bit Middle Eastern in your way, so I've got it handled. A bit Middle Eastern. Funny
00:27:24.340
enough, I had my DNA tested a few years ago and I have got a tiny bit of Middle Eastern
00:27:30.280
in me. Ah, that's why you're good looking. I might try that with my wife and just say,
00:27:35.840
I'm just using a bit of Middle Eastern, see how that goes down. Let's see. Let me know.
00:27:41.200
Gad, it's great to catch up with you. Please come back again soon. I really
00:27:44.040
enjoyed it. Thank you. That was great. Thank you, Pierce. Take care. All the best.