The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - The Parasitic Mind & Evolutionary Psychology - the Mislaibeled Podcast (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad

00:00:00.000 We are here with one of the famed intellects of our generation, Dr. Gad Saad, author of multiple

00:00:05.300 books, including national bestseller, The Parasitic Mind. Professor at Concordia University,

00:00:10.400 researcher, podcaster, and author of the new book, The Sad Truth About Happiness,

00:00:15.380 Eight Secrets for Leading the Good Life. The reason why I always speak out is because I

00:00:20.140 wouldn't be able to fall asleep on that pillow if I thought I saw a merger of truth in the corner

00:00:25.640 and I walked by ignoring it. I would be inauthentic. I am allergic to BS. You've somehow

00:00:31.240 or another avoided a full-scale cancellation. Nothing sticks. They've tried to cancel me in

00:00:35.920 all sorts of ways. If I didn't have the protection of tenure, I'd be gone long ago. After October 7th,

00:00:40.700 it almost became impossible for me to go on campus. I very quickly noticed that some of the supposedly

00:00:45.820 brightest people on earth can come up with some of the dumbest and most insane ideas. Neil deGrasse

00:00:51.120 Tyson has an obligation. He's a public intellectual who has a large platform. If you're going to go

00:00:56.920 and use your scientific imprimatur to say, it is settled, gender is on a spectrum, I'm coming after

00:01:02.660 you. All of those parasitic ideas, post-modernism, cultural relativism, radical feminism, social

00:01:08.160 constructivism, were all spawned on university campuses. Each of these idea pathogens starts off

00:01:13.780 originally with a noble goal. Then in the service of that goal, if you have to destroy the edifices of

00:01:19.600 reason, so be it. This thing's saying to me like a canary. Anytime I get into a debate moving forward,

00:01:23.680 by the way, I'm just gonna be quoting you.

00:01:31.300 All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Mislabeled. If you are watching this,

00:01:35.560 you can please like, subscribe, and comment. That would mean the world, specifically a subscription,

00:01:39.200 really, really helps the algorithm. We are working very, very hard. We right now are in Montreal,

00:01:43.560 Canada. We are here with one of the famed intellects and evolutionary behavioral scientists

00:01:50.080 of our generation, Dr. Gad Saad. Some of his quick accomplishments include, first of all,

00:01:57.920 he's a professor at the University of Concordia. He has his own podcast, currently is the host of

00:02:03.760 The Saad Truth.

00:02:05.700 Yes, sir.

00:02:06.100 Okay. He's a visiting professor and global ambassador at Northwood in Michigan.

00:02:13.960 That's right, Northwood University.

00:02:14.720 You like that. I remember that. I know you just told me that.

00:02:16.580 Very good. That was good.

00:02:17.820 And he has his PhD in evolutionary behavioral science from Cornell University. Okay.

00:02:25.540 Slight correction, psychology and decision making, but yes.

00:02:28.500 Psychology and decision making.

00:02:29.940 By the way, I was never sure what's the difference between evolutionary behavioral scientists and

00:02:33.920 evolutionary psychologists. It's a broader term. So evolutionary psychologist is a subset of all of

00:02:40.980 the different ways by which you can use evolution to study human behavior. So evolutionary behavioral

00:02:46.500 scientists might be an evolutionary anthropologist. It might be an evolutionary psychologist. It might be

00:02:51.260 got it.

00:02:51.980 So it's a broader term.

00:02:53.740 Understood. Okay. I'm first of all, very, very excited to be here. Like really, there are certain

00:02:58.560 guests specifically that I really, really look forward to. As I told you before, and this is not

00:03:03.560 the main thing that I do, but I always tell people that there are similarities between,

00:03:07.300 you know, podcasting and the real estate business and kind of like the dopamine rush you get when

00:03:12.940 you close a deal and the dopamine rush you get when you close a great guest. So this was ranked

00:03:18.000 high up.

00:03:18.940 But the dopamine rush of this one was greater though, right?

00:03:21.320 Yes, absolutely. No, like this is, you're one of the guests.

00:03:24.060 This is like a $30 million house penthouse.

00:03:25.620 I did a $230 million deal. So you're above $230 million.

00:03:30.720 My goodness.

00:03:31.480 Sorry, I had to just throw that out there.

00:03:33.140 Thank you. Thank you for feeding my ego.

00:03:35.860 Absolutely. Okay, fine. One of the coolest things is obviously that you're Jewish, especially

00:03:40.640 with everything going on in Lebanon. You were born in Lebanon. Could you just talk a little

00:03:44.000 bit to how, you know, I know you speak about it a lot in your book. I just want to mention,

00:03:47.880 by the way, one other thing, probably the most important thing I forgot to mention in my

00:03:50.920 intro was that Dr. Saad is a author of multiple books, including a national bestseller, The

00:03:57.480 Parasitic Mind. This book is gold. This thing sang to me like a canary. Okay. I'm not even

00:04:02.360 kidding. Like you summed up everything that like I've thought and just gave great explanations.

00:04:08.440 Like anytime I get into a debate moving forward, by the way, I'm just gonna like be quoting

00:04:12.300 you. I can't even wait.

00:04:13.440 That's great.

00:04:13.920 I'm gonna take all your years of work and just steal it and just start spitting facts.

00:04:17.640 But yeah, could you just, you talk about that?

00:04:21.680 So we were part of the last remaining group of Jews in Lebanon, most of the Jewish community

00:04:28.280 in Lebanon, which was never a big one. But at one point, it was several thousand Jews

00:04:33.760 had already left by the time we were there. Even most of my extended family had left most

00:04:40.260 to Israel, a few to France, one maternal aunt to Montreal. That's one of the reasons why we

00:04:46.800 ended up moving to Montreal. But my parents were very well entrenched in Lebanese society.

00:04:53.480 They were politically connected. They were successful business people. And so despite the

00:04:59.280 fact that the writing was on the wall, you know, it always takes that final push for people

00:05:05.220 to wake up. And so we were all, I have three older siblings, much older than me. They had

00:05:11.700 already all left Lebanon because it was two brothers and a sister, two brothers and sister.

00:05:17.160 Yes. You've done your homework. One is about 14 years older, one sister, 12 years older,

00:05:22.780 and then another brother, 10 years older. And so there was really only me still a kid when

00:05:28.980 the civil war broke out in 1975. I was 10. And then when the war broke out, it became really

00:05:35.140 impossible to be Jewish. And so eventually, during that first year of the civil war, we got our act

00:05:42.200 together and got out of there very, very quickly. Were you only able to get out because of the

00:05:46.160 political connections of your family? I mean, in a sense, yes, because, and I tell this story

00:05:52.140 in the book, the only way that we can actually escape is if we were driven to the airport by PLO

00:06:01.880 militia, PLO is Palestinian Liberation Organization, is because a lot of the roadblocks that were set

00:06:09.280 up around the Beirut International Airport were manned by PLO militia. And so if you were not

00:06:15.820 friendly to that, to those militia, you weren't going to get through to make your flight. And so

00:06:20.680 my parents, undoubtedly, I don't know the exact details, but I know that they paid some money

00:06:24.960 to receive protection from these people. I mean, imagine the images that you see from the safety

00:06:31.540 of your Long Island house of ISIS and those guys. Well, those are the guys who picked us up.

00:06:36.920 It's amazing to me that they would even be willing to help you for, I mean, kind of any sum of money.

00:06:42.040 Well, they could have taken the money and they could have put a bullet in our head in a ditch,

00:06:46.020 right? And I have often thought about that, that how the vagaries of life, right? If one of them

00:06:52.380 had thought of being less than kind at that moment and not honor their deal, I wouldn't be sitting

00:06:58.240 here next to you. Yeah, that's unbelievable. So I'm sure you've answered the following question a

00:07:02.280 million times, but just for the audience, I'm going to set some basic, you know, understandings.

00:07:06.860 So what is the study of a evolutionary behavioral scientist? So imagine you want to study why humans

00:07:15.800 have opposable thumbs or why our respiratory system is the way that it is. You could apply evolutionary

00:07:21.480 theory to study why it is that evolution would have endowed us with that ability, right?

00:07:27.640 Evolutionary psychology and evolutionary behavioral science is simply applying that

00:07:31.280 to the study of the human mind. Why do we experience jealousy the way that we do? Why do we prefer the

00:07:36.940 types of mates that we prefer? So it's, you're applying the evolutionary lens to the most important

00:07:42.300 organ in your body, which is your brain.

00:07:45.020 Got it. This book, The Parasitic Mind, obviously speaks a lot, you know, regarding the woke agenda that's

00:07:50.780 kind of progressivism that's really taken over Westernism over the last, you know, 10, 15

00:07:56.740 years. How does, how would you say that evolutionary behavioral science or evolutionary psychology

00:08:04.120 intersects specifically with this? Yeah, that's a great question. So the idea of using the neuro

00:08:09.760 parasitological framework, which I'll explain in a second, came very much from the fact that as an

00:08:16.520 evolutionary psychologist, I often will look at animal behavior in other species to make some

00:08:23.220 statement about the human condition, right? So for example, if you want to study toy preferences,

00:08:28.160 and you want to show that little boys and little girls have certain innate toy preferences, you could

00:08:33.200 study that behavior in other species to show that they exhibit the exact same toy preferences. And those

00:08:39.380 studies have been done with rhesus monkeys, with vervet monkeys, with chimpanzees. They have the exact same

00:08:45.440 toy preferences as human infants do. And so as I was trying to find a way to explain what is it that

00:08:52.100 can cause people to be so ideologically captured, I started looking at the animal literature. So first,

00:08:59.600 I fell on the parasitology literature. Parasitology simply is the study of the interaction between a host

00:09:06.540 and a parasite. So for example, a tapeworm can parasitize your intestinal tract. A neuroparasite

00:09:15.680 has to find its way to your brain, altering your behavior to suit its interest. So for example,

00:09:23.380 a wood cricket, an actual cricket, when it detests water, it abhors water, it wants nothing to do with

00:09:30.740 water. When it is parasitized by a particular type of brain worm called a hair worm, the hair worm needs the

00:09:37.160 wood cricket to jump in water in order for it to complete its reproductive cycle. So it zombifies the wood

00:09:43.560 cricket's brain, causing it to merrily jump and commit suicide in the service of the parasite. And so that was my

00:09:50.920 epiphany.

00:09:51.460 Such a great analogy.

00:09:52.640 Thank you.

00:09:53.120 So I had that epiphany. I said, aha, well, I'm now going to argue in this book that human beings

00:09:59.620 could be parasitized by actual brain worms. For example, Toxoplasma gandhi is an actual brain worm.

00:10:05.440 But human beings, regrettably, can be parasitized by ideological brain worms. I call these idea pathogens.

00:10:12.280 And that's how the topic is.

00:10:14.300 What do you think the drive is in the Western world to argue with the reason on such a, you know,

00:10:19.740 basic foundation?

00:10:21.200 Yeah. So I try to actually explain why it is that these idea pathogens are so alluring. Why is it

00:10:29.080 that people believe this nonsense? And maybe before I answer your question of why that is,

00:10:34.340 it's worth maybe giving an example of a few parasitic ideas. So for example, postmodernism,

00:10:40.420 I call it the granddaddy of all idea pathogens, because it purports that there are no objective

00:10:47.160 truths, other than the one objective truth, that there are no objective truths, right? So up is down,

00:10:53.020 left is right, women can have penises, freedom is slavery, war is peace, men can have kids,

00:11:00.380 men can menstruate. So it affords the epistemological liberty for anything to be possible, okay? So that

00:11:08.080 would be one example of an idea pathogen, okay? And so what I wanted to do in the book was argue,

00:11:13.440 well, so why do people get parasitized this way? And what I propose is that each of these idea

00:11:19.460 pathogens starts off originally with a noble goal, noble objective, which then in the service of that

00:11:26.860 goal, if you have to destroy the edifices of reason, so be it. So let me give you a concrete

00:11:31.940 example. Equity feminism is a good idea. It basically says that men and women should be treated equally under

00:11:38.980 the law. And based on that definition, most of us would say, yeah, sign me up, I'm an equity feminist.

00:11:44.860 Radical feminists argue, if we wish to eradicate toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and so on,

00:11:52.720 we need to argue that men and women are indistinguishable from each other, that there are no

00:11:58.540 biological-based differences between men and women, because that will allow us to fight sexism

00:12:04.000 and misogyny more easily. Right. So in the service of what started off as a noble pursuit,

00:12:10.000 if we murder and rape truth, so be it. And so I argue that each of these parasitic ideas

00:12:15.660 starts off that way. Noble goal, which then metamorphosizes into nonsense, you know,

00:12:22.660 once it evolves into a parasitic. So effectively, the people that are starting it start off,

00:12:26.620 you know, with a noble goal, and there are people that take it to just a further extreme,

00:12:31.000 just allow their feelings effectively to control, you know, the outcome of what they want.

00:12:37.200 Exactly. So I'll give you one other example. So cultural relativism is another idea pathogen,

00:12:42.920 which argues that there are no human universals. There's not a single thing that is common to all

00:12:50.040 humans. Every culture has to be judged according to its own idiosyncratic trajectory. That theory,

00:12:57.180 by the way, was originally developed about 100 years ago by a Jewish cultural anthropologist by

00:13:02.660 name of Franz Boas from Columbia University. Now, why did they originally propose such nonsense? Because,

00:13:08.720 I mean, there are human universals. It's as obvious, I mean, a three-day-old pigeon would know that,

00:13:14.320 right? For example, if I do this frown, there is no culture where this means that I'm happy. And if I

00:13:21.780 smile, there is no culture where people don't understand that that's a positive, affective

00:13:26.800 state, right? But they wanted to argue that, no, everything is socially constructed. Why did they

00:13:31.760 do that? Well, because they thought, these cultural anthropologists thought, that in the wrong hands,

00:13:39.080 the use of biology can result in terrible consequences. So, for example, British class

00:13:45.320 elitist argued something that they called social Darwinism. They argued, look, we're the upper

00:13:50.540 class. And if the lower class, they die in their squalor and from tuberculosis, hey, who cares?

00:13:57.440 That's just natural selection. It's just evolution taking place. The Nazis came along and said, hey,

00:14:03.600 there's a natural struggle between races. And we are the Aryan race. We won. So, if we eliminate the

00:14:09.680 Jews and the gypsies and the homosexuals, hey, that's just natural selection. That's just evolution.

00:14:14.360 Which, of course, it wasn't. But they were misusing evolutionary theory. They were misusing biology

00:14:19.940 to advance their political goals. So, these anthropologists came along and said, well,

00:14:24.600 what if we erect edifices of lack of reason that could hopefully protect us against these misuses of

00:14:32.200 biology? But that's ridiculous because that's like arguing, well, let's not study physics properly

00:14:37.500 because it could result in weapons being developed, right? So, you can't murder truth in the service of

00:14:44.240 a goal. That's why I argue, sorry for the mouthful, that the pursuit of truth is a

00:14:49.820 deontological principle. It's perfect. That actually leads me exactly to what I wanted to ask. So, you

00:14:53.760 talk about in the second chapter about the deontological principle versus the consequential

00:14:57.860 principle. Yes. Okay. And you talk about how there are certain times, in fairness, I'll just be

00:15:03.340 honest, you actually didn't spell it out very clearly. You didn't spell it out very clearly when

00:15:08.500 consequentialist should be used in the book. It kind of seemed that you felt in the book,

00:15:14.300 I believe it's like page 30-ish around, it shouldn't be there. There's never a time for

00:15:18.800 a consequentialist. And then I watched a podcast where you actually explained that no, there are

00:15:22.940 times. Yes. So, when are the times, just to clarify where, you know, a consequentialist

00:15:29.080 ethos should be used?

00:15:31.200 So, I, I, actually, this is an example that I did give in the book. I recently celebrated 25 years

00:15:38.100 with my wife. Okay. So, here is a life tip. If your spouse asks you, what?

00:15:44.320 No, you did write this. I know.

00:15:45.780 If your wife asks you, do I look fat in those jeans, put on your consequentialist hat and say,

00:15:53.900 absolutely not. In this case, you are potentially lying, but you're lying to protect the feelings of

00:16:00.040 someone you love. So, there are many, many cases in life, most cases, where there are reasonable

00:16:06.980 ethical arguments to be made that you could put on a consequentialist hat. But there is a set of

00:16:12.900 principles that by definition have to be deontological. So, for example, the pursuit of truth

00:16:19.120 has to be deontological. It can't be follow truth, but once you put but. So, for example,

00:16:26.620 if we find that, since we're both of the same tribe, if we find tomorrow that Orthodox Jews

00:16:35.260 are more likely to commit a certain type of crime, for whatever reason, should we not...

00:16:41.340 Tax embezzlement?

00:16:42.360 Tax embezzlement. You're succumbing to Jewish stereotypes.

00:16:46.580 Okay, go.

00:16:47.040 But let's suppose that whatever it was, right? And I wanted to study that. Are there cultural reasons?

00:16:53.440 Are there genetic reasons why Orthodox Jews are much more likely than anyone else to commit such

00:16:58.600 a crime? Well, if I were a consequentialist, I would say, don't publish that, because then that

00:17:04.320 might marginalize Orthodox Jews. That might be viewed as anti-Semitic. If I'm a deontological

00:17:10.240 bent in pursuing truth, then I say it doesn't matter whether Orthodox Jews will be... their feelings

00:17:17.280 will be hurt by that. It's part of the pursuit of truth, right? So, that would be one example. Let me

00:17:21.600 give you one or two others. Freedom of speech has to be deontological. Once you say, I believe

00:17:28.820 in freedom of speech, but that means you don't believe that it's a deontological principle. Now,

00:17:34.580 there are asterisks that are associated with freedom of speech. You can't defame me. You can't

00:17:41.260 engage in direct incitement to violence, right? So, for example, you could say Judaism is a crock

00:17:47.440 of nonsense. It's pure BS. And you should be allowed to say that. On the other hand, if you

00:17:53.720 say, at the corner of Notre Dame and 7th Street, when the Jews come out of the synagogue, let's go

00:18:00.120 and kill them, that's not protected by freedom of speech, by the First Amendment in the U.S. So,

00:18:06.060 for most things, it has to be deontological. So, that's what I talk about in the book.

00:18:10.380 Well, so my only question is, obviously, that for sure makes sense. And I love the fact that truth and

00:18:14.180 freedom is your motto of defending those things, and that's what drives you, and authenticity,

00:18:18.020 right? I think we have to add authenticity into one of those words, because you write truth and

00:18:22.040 freedom in the beginning of the book, but the more I... In the next book, in the happiness book,

00:18:25.700 I talk about authenticity a lot more. Okay. In fairness, I'll be honest, I didn't

00:18:28.940 manage to cover the happiness book, even though we're going to get to some of those principles I

00:18:32.400 know you discussed there. All right, everybody, I want to take a quick second to give a big shout-out to

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00:19:47.920 at C-U-B-X dot com. You can also check them out at cubx.com. That's C-U-B-X dot com. Now back to our

00:19:56.280 episode. Specifically regarding hate speech versus free speech. Obviously, you said there's an asterisk

00:20:03.020 by hate speech. How do we determine? I feel like a lot of people have differences of opinion on what

00:20:09.360 is hate speech and what is free speech. Anything short of a very direct incitement to violence is okay.

00:20:17.420 We have to err on the side of caution. Well, on the side of freedom. Yeah, yeah. Okay, on freedom of speech.

00:20:22.480 It's so difficult because you'll have the consequentialists or the postmodernists who will, you know, sit there

00:20:27.400 and say that, you know, saying that Judaism is, you know, a crock of nonsense, they'll say that that

00:20:33.420 is hate speech. I mean, we have that going. I don't, though. So I'll give you the word, I'll give you the

00:20:37.560 most offensive speech that is imaginable. And maybe you've heard me mention this example before.

00:20:43.840 There is nothing worse than to deny a historical reality whereby an entire people was being exterminated

00:20:51.500 at industrial scale level called the Holocaust. So there's nothing more offensive than for someone

00:20:57.280 to stand up at a university and say it never happened. Actually, it wasn't six million Jews.

00:21:01.380 It was six Jews. It's just the Jews like to lie. That's very offensive. That's very hurtful, right?

00:21:07.260 But in a free society, I have to tolerate racists, bigots, falsehood spreaders, idiots, imbeciles.

00:21:16.060 That's what freedom of speech is meant to protect. It's not meant to protect that you tell me I look

00:21:20.580 really good in my velvet suit, right? Because then you don't need freedom of speech for that,

00:21:24.400 right? So I think most people don't have that reflex, because most people want to be kind,

00:21:31.120 decent, empathetic people, which is the topic of my next book, Suicidal Empathy. And therefore,

00:21:36.420 in the service of being infinitely empathetic, if we murder these foundational principles,

00:21:42.060 so be it. At least I could die being an empathetic person.

00:21:44.680 Right. But it's, yeah, I mean, nice guys finish last. It's really, there's really a piece to that I was,

00:21:49.040 you know, as I, um, by the way, everyone, you should follow, uh, Dr. Saad's Twitter of the

00:21:53.980 greatest feeds to date. And the most amazing thing you should know that I realized is that there are

00:21:58.900 people who don't pick up on your satire. You want to hear something? Because that's how crazy the

00:22:02.880 world is. And you want to hear something? Someone once wrote one of, one of the most profound tweets

00:22:08.720 from someone that I've ever seen. He, he said, uh, Dr. Saad has found the singularity point. They

00:22:15.520 could never cancel him because they never know what, when he's being straight and when he's being

00:22:22.920 satirical. By the way, that's exactly the power of satire. That's why dictators, when they want to

00:22:30.460 get rid of the most dangerous people in their society, they don't go after the guys with the big

00:22:35.180 muscles, because those are very easy to kill. They go after the guys with the sharp tongues,

00:22:40.100 the guys with the spicy pen, because it is those guys that have the true intellectual muscle.

00:22:47.140 It's the satirist who can bring me down. It's not the guy who is tall and has big muscles,

00:22:52.260 one arrow and I get rid of him. But ideas are a lot more dangerous. And therefore,

00:22:57.880 usually the first thing that the dictators will get rid of is humor, satire, mockery,

00:23:03.520 because I can't stand that. So think about some religions today, today that are very intolerant

00:23:09.800 of comedy or satire. Can you think of anyone? Um, I'm, I could think of some. Yeah. Okay. Well,

00:23:16.880 so there is, when there, when there's the book of Mormons that becomes a bestselling play where one

00:23:24.080 could argue the play is not very, uh, complimentary to Mormons, there were no terrorist attacks,

00:23:30.760 right? You can do all sorts of blasphemous thing to Christianity under the auspices of its art,

00:23:38.180 right? You can take literally a crucifix of Christ. I don't know if you know this example.

00:23:44.120 And this artist put it in a jar of urine and called it art. And yet no Catholics went around

00:23:50.980 killing people. But there is one particular religion. Not talking about Judaism, right?

00:23:55.800 Right. Where you can't do that precisely because that religion recognizes that once you open it up

00:24:02.360 to mockery, then it's on shaky grounds. And so satire is very powerful. How have you,

00:24:08.480 I was going to ask this towards the end, but hell with it. Sure. How have you been able to fight,

00:24:14.700 you don't mince words when it comes to Islam, you know, you know, at all and in an amazing way,

00:24:19.980 the way it should be done. How do you have a, that courage and how are you still standing?

00:24:26.200 I'm being honest. Well, God willing for many, many more years. Um, I mean, standing. Yeah. Also

00:24:31.800 the questions at a physical way, but I wasn't referring to it in a literal way. I was also

00:24:34.760 figuratively like, yeah, like being canceled. Yeah. You haven't gotten, I mean, you're still

00:24:38.260 a professor of marketing in Concordia and they, they're also very left-leaning, uh, probably the

00:24:44.380 most left-leaning. How was this happening? So I think there are a couple of, uh, reasons why,

00:24:50.880 uh, that's taking place. One is because I'm very, very disciplined in my, what I call epistemological

00:24:59.620 humility. And so let me explain what I mean by that. I know what I know and I know what I don't

00:25:05.060 know. So you could ask me right here a thousand questions. I won't try to wing it if I don't know,

00:25:10.320 right? Because I don't pretend to be the professor who knows everything. There's a million questions

00:25:14.300 you can ask me. Oh, well, that's a great question. Unfortunately, I really don't know enough about

00:25:18.180 this to tell. And by the way, that builds trust because when the audience say my undergraduate

00:25:22.560 students see the, you know, the, they come into first day of class, wow, I'm in Katzad's

00:25:27.500 class. And then they ask me some great question. I go, you know what? Send me an email. I'm going

00:25:31.580 to look into it. Then they know that I'm never going to BS them, right? So how is this related

00:25:36.540 to the question of canceling that you're talking about? If I take a position on Islam, I could

00:25:42.300 back it up with a tsunami of evidence. So good luck to you if you want to debate me because

00:25:47.920 I've already done my homework. For sure. You're, no one's going to argue that you're

00:25:51.580 wrong, but from the consequentialist line of thinking, they could just get rid of you and

00:25:55.720 cancel you. It's, you know, they can't, but that's the beauty of tenure. So for the, for

00:26:01.000 the people who, so that they, I mean, there is some truth to the argument that tenure, which

00:26:07.440 for those of you who don't know is the protection, protective mechanism that causes professors

00:26:12.020 not to be able to be fired for things that they say. Some will argue, but that creates

00:26:17.560 deadwood. After people get tenure, they don't have any reason to keep producing and being

00:26:23.600 productive. The reality is most professors will keep producing no matter what, because

00:26:27.820 they are driven to, you know, to pursue science and so on. But someone like me, if I didn't have

00:26:34.620 tenure, I would have been canceled 25 years ago. This is my 31st year as a professor and

00:26:40.620 I've never modulated my, my speech. I've always told it like it is. And I would have never gotten

00:26:45.980 as far as I did if it weren't for tenure.

00:26:48.020 Do you have sympathy for the people that, you know, are careful about what they say?

00:26:52.900 No.

00:26:53.140 You don't have tenure?

00:26:54.040 No.

00:26:54.980 Why is that?

00:26:55.880 I'll tell you why. So here is an email that I've received from 50,000 people. You ready?

00:27:03.340 Dear Professor Saad, a bunch of compliments. And here's the last sentence.

00:27:09.240 In case you decide that you want to read this email on your show, please do not mention my name.

00:27:16.080 And then I respond and I say, Dear so-and-so, thank you very much for your kind words. Don't

00:27:21.320 you think that the last sentence is exactly why we are in the position that we're in? And then

00:27:25.880 oftentimes that will kind of slap them into reality. Now, it seems as though I'm being sort of

00:27:30.720 smug about it or I'm not taking their concerns seriously. There's always a reason why it

00:27:37.420 shouldn't be you who speaks out. I can't speak out because I'm only a postdoc. I can't speak out

00:27:42.940 because I don't have tenure yet. I can't speak out. I have tenure, but I'm applying for a full

00:27:47.600 professor. I can't speak out. I do have full professor, but I'm applying for chair professor.

00:27:52.280 I can't speak out because I won't get the grant. I can't speak out because I'm in the running for the

00:27:57.040 Nobel Prize. And if I speak out, so there's always a reason that I can find for why it shouldn't be me

00:28:02.460 who speaks out. You know who didn't care about that? The thousands of men who lined up, put up

00:28:08.020 their hand in Normandy and said, we will land on Normandy where we're going to be mowed down like

00:28:14.580 little mosquitoes by Nazi machine guns. They seem to have lost a lot more than your reputation or not

00:28:22.920 being accepted to the cool parties in Manhattan or not getting tenure. And yet they did it. So

00:28:27.440 I don't mean to be flippant or smug about everybody's concern. Of course, don't be a reckless

00:28:33.740 martyr, right? You can modulate how you take your risks. But the idea that you are unique in the risks

00:28:42.580 you face is not true, right? One of the reasons why I never show my family in any photos is precisely

00:28:50.040 because I incur a lot of costs that have nothing to do with tenure, right? So when someone says,

00:28:56.320 here are the 17 ways we're going to kill you, that's not a pleasant email to receive. But I

00:29:00.680 can't not speak because I know what happens to societies where you can't speak. I come from those

00:29:06.220 societies and I don't want the West to repeat those mistakes. It's interesting because I was going

00:29:11.500 to say when I started this, first of all, this might be or I might have caught you on potentially

00:29:15.140 the best day of your life. I mean, Trudeau. Oh, he drops right now. In my mind, I was like,

00:29:20.880 I should bring that up first. But I got started. Yes, yes. I mean, I'm hoping that Trudeau. But you

00:29:26.820 know, can I tell you something? It's going to surprise you. Even if he were to step down today,

00:29:31.460 it wouldn't remove the existential injury that I feel that no matter what, he was prime minister for

00:29:39.840 nine years. The fact that that degenerate, lobotomized, cretin, who, by the way, every

00:29:46.440 single parasitic idea in my book, he is a walking manifestation of it, right? He doesn't say

00:29:52.640 recession. He says sh-cession because he's a feminist guy. He's, yeah. I mean, he's a caricature,

00:30:01.800 right? He pursues a feminist foreign policy, right? He believes in, you know, that his cabinet

00:30:09.440 has to have the right number of transgender people and, you know, women with penises and so on.

00:30:14.860 So, by the way, I can't apply for grants as a scientist if I don't fill out a diversity,

00:30:21.980 inclusion, equity statement, which, so now it's been about seven years since I've last had a research

00:30:28.500 grant because I'm unwilling to play that charade, right? You would never know if I filled that out,

00:30:33.180 right? It could be completely enormous, right? But I wouldn't feel authentic if from this side of my

00:30:38.780 mouth. I'm arguing against how ridiculous it is to fill out these forms. But then when nobody is

00:30:44.960 looking because I need money, I play along. And therefore, I've been completely without any

00:30:51.000 research funds for seven years because of your boyfriend, Justin Trudeau.

00:30:54.980 Yeah, no, he's on a whole different level, that guy. You know, talking about that,

00:31:01.480 in America, especially with the, you know, Trump's win, which I think you'd be proud of me,

00:31:07.460 I put down a big bet on Trump winning the popular vote.

00:31:10.000 Look at you.

00:31:10.860 And I made a whole bunch of money.

00:31:12.060 Wow.

00:31:13.000 So, that was really nice.

00:31:14.900 I was following, what is that betting site that became famous?

00:31:18.600 So, there's Kalshi and there's Polly.

00:31:20.520 Polly, that's the one. I was looking at it feverishly the day of the thing and as it was

00:31:24.780 going up.

00:31:25.280 So, I'll tell you, part of what I realized that was just straight, I was getting it with

00:31:28.680 one to four odds. So, already on the popular vote, it was one to four odds. And on the

00:31:32.540 most left-leaning outlets, only had her up one percent on the popular vote. And just in

00:31:37.160 general, when there's any poll, I just did plus three Trump, just like, and the most accurate

00:31:42.720 polls of the last three elections had Trump winning by two points. I just felt, based on

00:31:47.540 independence, there was a whole host of reasons, actually. And I announced this publicly

00:31:51.260 before. I really put my money where my mouth is. I announced it publicly before. I said,

00:31:55.440 I guarantee you this is happening. And I put down, you know, money on it. I wrote it on

00:31:58.460 Twitter or whatever, the whole money on it. Anyways, what made sense, the reason what

00:32:02.500 just was simple and straightforward in this case was that, at the very least, that should

00:32:05.460 have been a 50-50 line. It was 22-78. So, I knew that it was at least going to go up

00:32:11.280 to 50-50, just on a given, because it's not going to be 22-78, you know. So, anyways,

00:32:16.820 that was, but obviously with the Trump win, getting back to, you know, what I was saying,

00:32:20.080 the Trump win has changed things dramatically, or at least we're headed in a

00:32:25.420 much, much better direction. I honestly don't even want to think about what would

00:32:27.980 have happened if she would have won. It was that bad, that bad of a candidate.

00:32:31.540 My question specifically is, how can you reverse what is happening? And the reason why I asked

00:32:37.780 that, just to elaborate a little bit, you know, further, is that we're, like, this is

00:32:43.840 an indoctrination, right? It's a pathogen that's, you know, a parasitic pathogen, as,

00:32:47.520 you know, discussed, that's taken over the mind. It's also coming from universities.

00:32:50.800 It's being indoctrinated into kids in universities, and that's your biggest...

00:32:55.420 Even younger.

00:32:56.520 Even younger? Great. Okay, true. And my question is, how do you...

00:33:00.080 There's a clear, stark contrast in the country. Yeah, we, you know, Trump won.

00:33:03.780 That was 50% of the country, but the other 50% undoubtedly still hold the same parasitic...

00:33:07.580 That's why, by the way, so to your question, this is why I implore people to not become

00:33:15.160 complacent in the battle against all of these parasitic ideas, because a lot of people have

00:33:19.420 gotten that reflex, now that Trump and his gang has come in, that's it, the nightmare

00:33:24.380 is over. I mean, yes, he's going to create a bit of an auto-correction, but it took 50 to

00:33:30.560 100 years for many of these parasitic ideas to originally flourish in the academic ecosystem

00:33:36.640 and then, you know, to be promulgated everywhere in society. Hopefully, it won't take 50 to 100

00:33:42.280 years to eradicate all the parasitic ideas, but it won't all end magically by the time

00:33:48.560 of, you know, Trump's, you know, stepping down from his second term. It's going to be

00:33:53.920 a much longer battle. To your point, it's an ideological slash cultural battle. And so

00:33:59.520 for me, so for example, for my next book, when I was thinking about, you know, which of the

00:34:05.380 two wins, if Kamala wins or if Trump win would be better for my book. Now, in a small way,

00:34:13.900 you would argue, well, if Kamala had won, of course, it would be a disaster, but it would

00:34:18.160 be even better for my book because it would, it would, you know, just accelerate all the

00:34:22.480 nonsense. But the reality is, even if Trump won, which he did, it's not, these things are

00:34:28.760 not going to go away overnight. It's still going to be a generational battle.

00:34:32.620 So what's the reason to believe it will ever go away? Is it just because the same way it

00:34:35.860 got here, we could assume it'll just pass on?

00:34:37.760 Well, listen, let me give you an example. There used to be a time in Salem, Massachusetts,

00:34:42.340 where it was thought to be a good idea to throw women, if you thought that they were witches,

00:34:48.760 into water. And if they swim and don't drown, then this proves that they are witches. But if

00:34:56.040 they drown, oops, I guess they weren't witches. And many, many people thought that that was a

00:35:00.500 great idea. Well, today, several hundred years later, we no longer think that. So the human mind

00:35:06.480 has always had the capacity to be parasitized. It's not, because people ask me, is what you write

00:35:12.540 in the parasitic mind, is it related to the current time? It's yes and no. It's no in the sense that

00:35:20.140 throughout human history, we've been parasitized. What is unique to the current period are the specific

00:35:26.380 idea pathogens that are parasitizing us. While we don't worry about Salem witch hunts,

00:35:31.940 we do think that men can menstruate, right? So the parasitic ideas take new forms, but our capacity

00:35:38.260 to be parasitized is eternal. That actually makes a lot of sense.

00:35:42.160 There you go. If you go backwards. That's why I wear the velvet suit.

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00:37:01.100 back to our episode. There's something very interesting that I wanted to ask you. Of course,

00:37:06.360 part of the parasitic syndrome is this idea that everyone is racist, bigoted, et cetera,

00:37:10.540 no matter what the facts show, profiled, you name it, all those things. We have a current

00:37:16.700 situation going on. I do want to talk a little bit more about the parasitic mind and the book,

00:37:21.840 but there's one thing I really wanted to get to. We do have something going on right now,

00:37:25.340 especially with Israel and Jewish people. We're very, very much in the spotlight right now.

00:37:29.320 And the same way me and you would really hate, and I presume we're on the same page about this,

00:37:33.740 of saying something and then being called a racist immediately, there seems to be a common

00:37:39.660 sentiment from, a lot of times it's anti-Semites actually, but sometimes it's not, that they

00:37:45.540 feel that any single time there's any criticism towards Israel, the word you're an anti-Semite

00:37:50.200 is thrown out, and that there's no ability for them to have an opinion on the Jews or Israel,

00:37:53.860 because if there is, they're just immediately character assassinated. Do you think there's

00:37:58.440 validity to that? And if so, what would we do? Yeah, I think you could absolutely criticize

00:38:03.660 specific Israeli policies, just like you can criticize Cameroonian policies and you wouldn't

00:38:10.040 be called racist, or you can criticize Japanese policies without being called an anti-Japanese

00:38:16.280 bigot. So there is absolutely room for people, reasonable people to say, you know, this particular

00:38:22.980 policy by the Israeli government is wrong for reasons X, Y, Z. The reality, though, is that most

00:38:30.220 people who, quote, attack Israeli policies or Zionism but not Jews, if I scratch a bit, they

00:38:38.560 usually are anti-Semitic. But in the abstract, is it possible to criticize Israel without being

00:38:44.940 anti-Semitic? 100% yes. Do you think we're doing ourselves a disservice at all by just throwing out

00:38:49.660 the word very flippantly? Of anti-Semite? Yeah, I mean, this is, I would say on Twitter, you know,

00:38:54.640 Twitter's a real cesspool, you know, freedom of speech, you know, obviously, but at the end of the day,

00:38:59.400 it is a, you know, the cool thing. Again, it's a case by case basis, right? I think that there are

00:39:04.560 some Jews that are so thin-skinned, or maybe they're Israelis who fall prey to what you're saying,

00:39:11.360 which is any valid criticism of Israel becomes a form of anti-Semitism. And they do us a disservice

00:39:17.920 because then people say, you know what, here comes a Jew crying anti-Semitism. But if you see the kind

00:39:23.120 of the stuff that I receive, I'm not Israeli, I'm not involved with the IDF, I didn't shoot anybody.

00:39:30.540 But if you see the orgiastic hate that I receive, that's not anti-Zionism, that's anti-Jew.

00:39:37.500 Honestly, I don't even, not that I don't care to, but I don't even need to see that. If you go on

00:39:40.940 Twitter, you know, on X right now, I don't think, X formerly known as Twitter, which I think it will,

00:39:46.000 the formerly known as Twitter will always be there. Right? If you go there, I mean, like you said,

00:39:51.260 I love that word, the orgiastic flood of anti-Semitism, like direct, clear, there is no

00:39:57.940 from, say, likes like Dan Bilzerian. And, you know, what are your thoughts, let's say, on Candace Owens?

00:40:03.060 Do you think she...

00:40:03.580 It's funny. I just put up a post about her today where I was satirically...

00:40:09.460 Yes, I saw the post.

00:40:10.280 Yes, but I want to hear, meaning I want to hear your full thoughts.

00:40:12.840 So look, I don't know what happened to her. She became parasitized by some strain of anti-Jew,

00:40:19.460 you know, hatred. Because I know Candace, she came on my show. And at the time,

00:40:25.360 so this is probably four or five years ago, you know, she was very reasonable. She was kind of,

00:40:31.100 she took up the place of the conservative, pretty black girl, right? So she's not, you know,

00:40:39.680 she was demonstrating that you can't presume that if someone is of a particular group,

00:40:44.840 everybody follows suit. Not all Jews vote Democrats. Some actually love Trump.

00:40:50.160 Right.

00:40:50.360 And so she was representing that. Not all black Americans are, you know, Democrats and so on.

00:40:57.300 And so she held a particular, you know, appealing niche. And then I don't know what happened to her.

00:41:04.680 She went wild. Something went bonkers there. I don't know what happened.

00:41:08.220 And frankly, not that I wish to get personal on this, but I'm very, I'd like to think that I'm very

00:41:15.780 adept at picking up certain character flaws in people. So here's a character flaw that I picked

00:41:22.460 up in her that has nothing to do with her anti-Jew stuff. I mean, literally, probably within a day or

00:41:29.180 two of Kanye West tweeting something like, I like how you think, Candace, that so got to her head

00:41:38.320 that the next day she unfollowed every single person that she had been following. So she,

00:41:44.440 she went from being a fangirl of, let's say, Jordan Peterson or Gatsad to suddenly no longer

00:41:51.560 needing to be associated with us because she had transcended to the real intellectual and the real,

00:41:59.340 you know, cerebral powerhouse of Kanye. Somebody who can let go of, right. I mean,

00:42:05.500 I literally have people that I had followed back eight, 10 years ago on Twitter that I can't stand

00:42:12.380 the positions that they take, but I've never unfollowed them out of just a sign of respect that

00:42:18.200 day. Right. Well, but Candace, after the Kanye thing, decided that she was too good for the rest

00:42:23.820 of us. And so that to me suggests that she didn't process her growing fame really well. And so never

00:42:31.960 mind the anti-Jew stuff. Yeah. Let me ask you, I wanted to just go back a little bit to, you know,

00:42:38.280 the ostrich parasitic syndrome for a simpleton like myself. Yes. And everyone else in the world that

00:42:45.080 doesn't have, honestly, your intellect, sorry, not trying to gas you up, just being honest.

00:42:48.620 How do you differentiate between, you know, doctrines that will lead you towards that versus

00:42:54.580 the truth? Right. So just for people to explain the syndrome. So the, this is a metaphor. The

00:43:02.640 ostrich doesn't actually do this, but burying your head in the sand has become the metaphor for

00:43:10.160 ignoring reality, right? So, or doing la, la, la, that's the same thing. Now, ostrich parasitic

00:43:15.580 syndrome is a, is a malady that I coined that suggests that it doesn't matter how much evidence

00:43:22.220 I can show you, I can never get you to change your position on something honestly. So example,

00:43:29.120 earlier we spoke about Islam and I have a whole section on this in the parasitic mind.

00:43:36.140 So since 9-11, there have been over 45,000 terror attacks committed by Islamic terrorists in nearly

00:43:48.440 70 countries since 9-11 alone. It's unbelievable. They will go up in front of a television and then

00:43:55.660 this will be publicly, you know, advertised, aired that we are about to do the thing that we are about

00:44:02.380 to do. And they quote the exact verses from the Quran that justifies why they should do it.

00:44:09.620 Here is what are, in French, you say,

00:44:12.420 the good, the politically correct thinkers will have us believe. You ready? That's,

00:44:19.180 that's going to be ostrich parasitic syndrome. It's lack of art exposure that causes Muhammad to go and

00:44:28.140 blow people up in Brussels or, see, because the reality is who amongst us, if it weren't for being

00:44:34.720 exposed to Picasso, we would head off to Raqqa in Syria and throw the gays off the rooftops. It's a

00:44:41.280 straight, direct line from me not seeing Chagall and Picasso and becoming a jihadist, right? But this is not

00:44:47.860 said satirically, but because at all costs, I have to protect the noble faith from Islamophobia,

00:44:54.820 right? Bill Nye, the science guy, explained to all of us simpletons that the Bataclan terror attack

00:45:04.120 in Paris was due to climate change, because those guys in Syria said, you know what, there's just

00:45:13.260 too much carbon emissions, not enough solar panels. We're really raping Mother Earth. It's time to go

00:45:19.360 to Paris and kill the kuffar, right? So when you're able to generate such nonsense with a straight

00:45:26.760 face, because nothing is more important than to be empathetic to the noble faith, that's ostrich

00:45:33.260 parasitic syndrome. So how do you know what's right or wrong? Believe your lying eyes.

00:45:40.200 The information could be confusing. There's so much, you know, what tactics, if you're someone who's

00:45:45.060 growing up, let's say under the age of 30, you're formulating your thoughts. I mean, you could have

00:45:48.500 people, you know, you get so much information, some of it, even though maybe in your gut seems like

00:45:53.520 it doesn't feel right, right? And your instinct feels like, no, this is off. But then it's sold

00:45:58.800 to you in a, you know, in a package that like, oh, I can't really argue with this. It makes sense.

00:46:03.340 So one of the things that I've learned in my many years of public engagement and academic debates and so

00:46:09.180 on is to know when I should no longer waste time on you, because I know that no amount of evidence

00:46:17.660 that I could ever present you will ever get you to that. By the way, that's one of the reasons why I

00:46:22.140 refuse to debate many people, even in very, very prestigious forms, because I know that that person,

00:46:30.720 because I know their history, is never going to come to a debate with an honest spirit, where they're

00:46:37.020 at least open to the idea of changing their minds. By the way, I was recently asked on a show, it was

00:46:42.780 hosted by a British psychiatrist. This was about a year ago. He asked me, and funnily enough, I don't

00:46:48.980 think anyone has ever asked me that question on any other show. At the end of the show, he said,

00:46:54.080 of all your years as a behavioral scientist, as a psychologist and so on, what is the singular

00:47:00.620 phenomenon that has most surprised you about humans? And so I had to think for a second. I said,

00:47:07.020 probably the inability of most people to ever change their opinions on anything. So in chapter

00:47:14.580 seven of The Parasitic Mind, which is a chapter where I'm talking about how to seek truth, I start

00:47:21.180 off at first, where I give a whole bunch of quotes by very well-known psychologists, including Leon

00:47:28.620 Festinger, who is the pioneer of cognitive dissonance theory, where he basically gives the very pessimistic

00:47:35.200 view that almost no person, irrespective of how much evidence you give them, are you ever able to

00:47:42.860 get them to move away from their anchored position. But that notwithstanding, I think I did offer what

00:47:50.060 I call a mind vaccine, which I can share with you if you'd like. But it's slightly technical. So can

00:47:55.880 we take like five or 10 minutes to explain it? Absolutely. Yeah, okay. I mean, I'm ready to

00:47:59.340 go for as long. I know you have the... Yeah, I have a problem. I have a bunch to get to, but yeah,

00:48:03.060 sure. Go ahead, please. So I think we mentioned it off air when I was testing you on how well you

00:48:07.420 had read the book. Did I pass or not? You did, you did. You did, 100%. So nomological networks of

00:48:15.460 cumulative evidence is a mind vaccine for seeking truth. So it's a mouthful. So let me try to explain what

00:48:23.100 that means. Let's suppose earlier I mentioned very briefly toy preferences. Let's suppose I wanted

00:48:29.340 to prove to you. So let's say you are a social constructivist. Social constructivist means you

00:48:34.360 believe that nothing's due to biology. Everything is due to social construction. So when it comes to

00:48:39.260 toy preferences, you would say the reason why little boys are much more likely to play with guns and balls

00:48:45.700 and hammers, whereas little girls are more likely to play with dolls, is because they are nurtured

00:48:52.640 into those toy preferences. So let's suppose I wanted to demonstrate that that's a false position,

00:48:58.220 that there are biological evolutionary reasons why these sex-specific toy preferences exist.

00:49:04.620 So what I'm going to do is I'm going to build you a nomological network of cumulative evidence

00:49:10.040 that hopefully drowns you in the tsunami of evidence that's going to come your way. So what am I going

00:49:15.920 to do? And I'll give examples in a second. I'm going to show you that across cultures,

00:49:21.860 those toy preferences exist, across very, very different cultures. I'm going to show you that

00:49:27.260 across time periods, those preferences have been exactly the same. I'm going to show you that across

00:49:32.940 species, those preferences are the same. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to what's called,

00:49:39.520 I'm going to triangulate. I'm going to bring distinct line of evidence from a bewildering number

00:49:46.180 of sources so that hopefully it becomes unassailable and unequivocal that the position I hold is the

00:49:52.480 correct one. Now, the good news is that when I have done that with many people, I have been able to flip

00:49:58.380 many people. That speaks actually to your earlier question of why I don't get canceled. Because I walk

00:50:05.500 into rooms where there are hundreds of people who are unbelievably hostile, then I present my evidence

00:50:12.620 and I go, how come I'm not hearing any rebuttals? That chirping slows down. Be quiet and sit down.

00:50:20.400 Right? Well, that's because I've done my homework, because I've already triangulated all the possible

00:50:27.040 and let me give you examples of those specific lines of evidence for toy preferences. Okay. So for

00:50:33.420 example, I can get you data from pediatric endocrinology, where this is in medicine,

00:50:39.700 pediatrics, where little girls who suffer from a disorder called congenital adrenal hyperplasia,

00:50:47.300 it's a disorder that masculinizes their morphology. It masculinizes their behaviors.

00:50:54.640 So little girls who suffer from this endocrinological disorder, guess what their toy

00:51:00.140 preferences look like? They look like those of little boys. So that demonstrates that there is

00:51:05.840 an endocrinological hormonal reason for those preferences. Interesting. I can get you data

00:51:12.940 from 2,500 years ago in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, in Roman times, where in funerary monuments,

00:51:24.860 in mausoleums, little boys and little girls are depicted playing with the exact same toys as

00:51:31.580 they are today. I can take you to cultures that have nothing to do with the West, sub-Saharan

00:51:36.600 nomadic tribes in Africa, where they play with the exact same types of toys. I can bring you other

00:51:43.280 animals like rhesus monkeys and vervet monkeys and show you. So look what I'm doing. I am cornering you.

00:51:51.200 I am putting the epistemological noose, metaphorically speaking, around your neck

00:51:55.600 so that hopefully you will kind of throw up your arms and go, all right, I'm convinced. And so I'm

00:52:01.580 able to do that. Now, there are, for some people, no way for me to do that because they literally are

00:52:07.220 going, la, la, la. So how can I give you the vaccine against polio if you never show up to the

00:52:12.740 station to take the vaccine, right? But for many people, as long as they're intellectually honest to

00:52:18.620 at least hear my evidence, I can flip you. What would be the response, let's just say,

00:52:22.960 as I was listening to this, that, okay, you're arguing there's a biological, you know, reason,

00:52:27.980 let's say, for this. And, you know, social constructivists will obviously say that's

00:52:32.240 a social component. What would be the answer if one of them said, well, yeah, it's in our biology

00:52:36.580 because originally, let's say millions of years ago or whenever you believe the world was created,

00:52:41.620 you know, when the world started, really it was a social component. Now it became a biological one

00:52:48.480 because socially they kept on doing it. It's actually the exact opposite. That's very, it's very good.

00:52:52.680 How do you know? Maybe now, maybe they'd argue that now if everyone, you know, if we could change

00:52:57.500 our biology. So the same way evolution has created a biology, right, we got here, we could

00:53:03.100 unevolutionize it. Well, so there are many ways that we could know, but let me just answer it in a

00:53:08.300 broad way. So when my students asked me about nature versus nurture, which very much relates to what

00:53:16.340 you're saying, biology versus social construction. Biology is nature, social construction is nurture.

00:53:22.120 How do we know the difference? Well, first of all, nurture exists in its form because of biology,

00:53:29.140 not in lieu of biology. So for example, there is no culture where girls are taught to engage in

00:53:36.120 indiscriminate sex with as many men as possible. It doesn't exist. The reason why, you know,

00:53:41.840 it hasn't existed is because men and women have deferring costs in making a poor mate choice.

00:53:50.860 And that exists 18,000 years ago, and it will exist 18,000 years from now. And it exists in the

00:53:57.500 Yanomomo tribe in Amazon, and it exists here in Montreal. These are biological realities. Therefore,

00:54:04.440 socialization builds on those biological imperatives. So religion teaches women to be chased

00:54:11.400 irrespective of which religion, right? Orthodox Jews teach their women to be chased, and Catholic

00:54:20.120 girls are taught to be chased, and Muslim girls are taught to be chased, if we only speak about

00:54:25.580 Abrahamic faiths, right? So nurture exists because of biology. But let me give you one other important

00:54:33.500 metaphor. This is called the cake metaphor. If I am baking a cake, before I start baking the cake,

00:54:43.180 hang, bear with me, I'm going to come, yeah. Each of the ingredients are separate, right? Here are the

00:54:48.460 eggs, here's the butter, here's the flour, here's the sugar. Once I bake the cake, and it becomes an

00:54:55.520 inextricable mix. If I told you, please point to the eggs, you wouldn't be able to. That's exactly

00:55:02.260 nature-nurture. We are an inextricable melange of our genes and our environment, but nothing in

00:55:10.400 our nurture exists outside of our biology. It exists because of biology. This is what Matt Ridley,

00:55:18.040 the famous evolutionary biologist, said, nurture by nature, right? Got it. Or E.O. Wilson, who

00:55:26.300 recently passed away, he was a Harvard biologist, said that biology holds culture on a leash. The

00:55:33.340 leash could be long, meaning that different cultural traditions can manifest themselves in different

00:55:38.380 ways, but no culture could ever exist that violates biological imperatives. Yeah, you're saying

00:55:44.580 there's a foundation across certain things that just can't be fought. How would you say that the

00:55:50.380 upcoming book, Suicidal Empathy, is going to differ from The Parasitic Mind? That's a great question.

00:55:56.220 So The Parasitic Mind is a narration of what happens to our cognitive system when it is parasitized.

00:56:07.380 So human beings are both a thinking and a feeling animal, right? It's not one or the other, right?

00:56:13.020 So we've evolved a cognitive system, and we've also evolved an emotional system. So I can tell you

00:56:19.280 the reasons why men and women have evolved romantic jealousy, for example. There is an evolutionary

00:56:25.620 biological reason why that toxic response exists, and we can talk about it if you'd like.

00:56:33.180 So in The Parasitic Mind, I'm talking about what happens to human brains, their cognition,

00:56:39.980 when it is parasitized by idea pathogens. I complete the story with Suicidal Empathy by now explaining

00:56:48.300 what happens to your emotional system when it is hijacked by idea parasites.

00:56:54.620 It's very, very interesting. I mean, I know, you know, the Suicidal Empathy, the words speak for

00:56:59.300 itself. I mean, we have people, the most basic things. It's unbelievable.

00:57:02.780 By the way, forgive me for interrupting you. I can't believe how viral it's gone. It almost

00:57:10.040 has me worried that it's gone viral too early before the book comes out, because now I could

00:57:16.640 literally go on social media, and I will see Suicidal Empathy in like 60 languages. It's

00:57:24.600 in the Philippines. It's in Germany. It's in France.

00:57:26.660 So officially in 2026, but I'm trying to best, but if guys like you keep inviting me on these

00:57:36.920 shows, I can't be writing the book, you see? No, no, but seriously, I'm trying to speed it up.

00:57:43.540 One of the reasons why, frankly, I'm very excited this year to be at Northwood University, and I'm

00:57:48.180 not saying this to plug them, is because they've really given me the freedom. They haven't tied me

00:57:53.900 down with a million other responsibilities, and so I'm able to accelerate the pace at which I'm

00:57:59.740 writing the book.

00:58:00.480 You know, it's fascinating. I mean, the words speak for themselves. It's, you know, at the end of the

00:58:05.100 day, I mean, you could explain it to people just on a very simple level, the concept of suicidal

00:58:10.060 empathy.

00:58:10.740 Do you want me to do that?

00:58:11.460 Yeah, please.

00:58:11.820 So empathy is a perfectly noble and rational emotion to hold, right? I mean, we are a social

00:58:20.720 species. Therefore, we have to manage these relationships. One of the ways that we manage

00:58:26.080 these relationships is through the mechanism of empathy, right? So if you're hurting, I can empathize

00:58:32.140 with you. I have theory of mind. I could put myself in your shoes and feel what you're feeling,

00:58:38.340 and it is a fundamentally important part of human sociality to have empathy. So the book is not an

00:58:44.560 attack on empathy in all of its form. It's an attack on the misfiring of empathy. When empathy is

00:58:53.000 targeted to the wrong individuals or empathy is hyperactive, then we have problems. And so let me here

00:59:01.160 draw a theoretical analogy. OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, is a psychiatric disorder. But actually,

00:59:12.300 its foundation is perfectly adaptive. Let me explain. The idea of scanning the environment for threats

00:59:20.100 makes evolutionary sense. So for example, if you, when I came here, if you had sneezed in your hand,

00:59:25.900 and I see that you have a cold, and then you shake my hand, I might decide to very quietly go to the

00:59:32.620 bathroom and wash my hands because I don't want to catch your cold. So at that point, that germ

00:59:37.000 contamination fear makes perfect evolutionary and adaptive sense. If on the other hand, that instinct

00:59:44.040 misfires in the way that I spend every day, seven hours washing my hands and scalding hot water,

00:59:52.660 I can't get to work because I'm stuck in this infinite loop, my skin is falling off because I'm

00:59:58.800 stuck in this infinite loop and scalding hot water, then it becomes a dysregulated dysfunction,

01:00:04.560 right? So I take that principle, and I argue that our emotional system can exactly exhibit those

01:00:11.720 misfirings. Empathy is great. It's not so great when we care about the illegal Guatemalan immigrants

01:00:19.720 more than the American vets who lost their legs fighting in this war.

01:00:25.020 In psychology, I mean, there's like the concept of boundaries. It's like you speak to some people

01:00:28.540 and they're like, oh, I want to be so nice to this person, but that person's abusing them. It's like,

01:00:31.600 stop trying to, you know, that's suicidal empathy effectively. You know, like stop sacrificing

01:00:35.900 yourself, you know, at the expense of some, you know, for someone else. I know you discussed it in

01:00:40.540 your previous book, a lot about mating. And specifically in the seventh chapter,

01:00:44.680 you talk a lot about how biology has influenced mating. I recently did a podcast where I basically

01:00:52.220 said, you know, there's obviously a lot of discussion in the Orthodox community where

01:00:55.260 there's a big push for people to get married young. And when people aren't married, you know,

01:01:00.980 naturally there are going to be some people that aren't married. It's a whole big deal.

01:01:03.540 And it became this whole, they refer to it as a crisis, which I've pushed back on personally.

01:01:07.040 I'm like, no, some people don't get married. Sorry. Like not right away. Not sure. Some people don't

01:01:11.340 get married ever actually, but just because someone's not married by 26, it doesn't mean

01:01:15.080 we're in a crisis. It just, anyways. So I was saying, I think one of the reasons why people

01:01:19.840 don't get married is because people don't look at dating as a negotiation. They don't know where

01:01:24.080 they stand on what I refer to as the chessboard, you know? And I was reading in chapter seven

01:01:28.640 and you spoke about this, I believe it was seven or eight.

01:01:31.720 Now, which book are you referring to? Because I've spoken about it in the last book.

01:01:35.640 Consuming Instinct? Consuming Instinct? Yes, I believe.

01:01:38.360 Or the evolution. So I'm trying to think. I mean, in several books I've talked about

01:01:41.960 it. Yes. So what's the exact question so I could focus on it?

01:01:45.680 No, I just, I want to, from your perspective, I'm an evolutionary perspective.

01:01:49.660 Psychology, yeah.

01:01:50.080 Yes, psychological perspective. How do you see, like if you're looking for someone, right?

01:01:56.500 Yes.

01:01:56.900 Based on the laws of nature and evolution, how would you see the best way to find someone?

01:02:00.880 So probably the singular topic that's been most studied by evolutionary psychologists are human

01:02:07.840 mating preferences. And the pioneer of that area is someone who wrote, who's a good friend of mine,

01:02:15.840 who wrote the foreword to one of my earlier books. That's why I was wondering if that's

01:02:20.580 what you're referring to. So my 2011 book titled The Consuming Instinct, What Juicy Burgers,

01:02:27.780 Ferraris, Pornography, and Gift-Giving Reveal About Human Nature. So the foreword to that book was

01:02:33.320 written by David Buss, B-U-S-S, who's a professor of psychology at University of Texas, Austin.

01:02:39.160 And so he conducted the seminal studies, and many have conducted more studies since, in the late 80s,

01:02:46.540 where he went, he collected data from around the world, radically different societies, different

01:02:53.420 cultures, to see if there were certain attributes that are exactly the same in terms of what women

01:03:00.320 look for in men and what men look for in women. And perhaps not surprising, there are unbelievable

01:03:07.920 similarities across grossly different cultures. So it's not culture specific. What are some of these?

01:03:16.500 Men are much more likely to place a greater premium on a mate's youth and beauty. And women are much

01:03:26.500 more likely to place a much greater premium on a man's status. Now, status could be judged differently

01:03:36.720 as a function of which culture I'm from. So if I'm in the Hadza tribe in Africa, it might be the number

01:03:43.340 of cattle head I have. If I am in North America, it might be the number of Ivy League degrees I have,

01:03:51.420 or the number of zeros in my back and forth. So the means by which a culture defines status might

01:03:57.980 change. But there is no culture where women have said the following sentence. You ready?

01:04:03.760 I'm looking for a pear-shaped, nasal-voiced, effeminate man who plays video games all day and

01:04:13.540 shows zero ambition. That drives me into a sexual frenzy. That statement has never been uttered in the

01:04:21.040 history of humanity for a reason.

01:04:23.600 That's fascinating. That's a great way of putting it. Your humor is awesome. A couple of quick

01:04:27.460 rapid-fire questions.

01:04:28.680 Go.

01:04:29.800 Well, this is unfortunately I need to ask this because of this pod. Your parents are religious?

01:04:35.340 So we come from an Orthodox community, but not Orthodox in the sense that we have the whole

01:04:41.540 Lubavitch thing, but our synagogue growing up in Lebanon was an Orthodox community. Here it's called

01:04:47.880 the Spanish-Portuguese. So technically we're Orthodox. But am I today? No. Is that what you're

01:04:56.100 asking?

01:04:56.420 Yeah. No. I mean, specifically, I know you talk about God. You're not sure. You're officially

01:05:01.200 atheist. I don't know exactly what your current position is.

01:05:03.420 So it depends how we define God. If we define God that He really cares whether I eat prosciutto,

01:05:10.680 then that is a demeaning image in my mind of what God should be. The God of the universe

01:05:16.940 should really not care too much whether I have a prosciutto sandwich. It really minimizes how

01:05:22.380 important He is if He cares about prosciutto. So then by that measure, then I'm godless.

01:05:28.160 If we redefine what God means in more sort of esoteric, vague terms, then I can sign up

01:05:35.040 for it. Am I very Jewish in my identity? I was almost executed for being Jewish. So

01:05:42.920 I'm probably more Jewish than most people alive. So I can be very Jewish without necessarily

01:05:48.860 worrying that if I don't light the Shabbat candles at 422, not 423, because then that's

01:05:54.620 really a problem.

01:05:55.140 You should come to my house for Shabbat because you'll see me light those at 422. I specifically

01:05:58.960 wanted to ask you though, what's your relationship like with your parents' family based on your

01:06:05.440 direction? You're obviously extremely accomplished, as it goes without saying. So I ask that partially

01:06:11.160 because of my own world. And you also mentioned in the book that some of the dogmatic approaches

01:06:16.220 in your family as, I don't know if you're referring to immediate or extended.

01:06:21.100 Yeah. You're talking as the dogma is relating to religion.

01:06:24.920 Yeah. You talked about, I believe in the beginning of the book, you referred to this.

01:06:28.620 Exactly. So what you're talking about there is, I tell the story of, you know, going to

01:06:33.900 the synagogue in Beirut, what's called Magan Abraham. So we would go to synagogue and I'm

01:06:39.740 an inquisitive kid as I am today. And so I would ask my dad, you know, why are we standing

01:06:46.460 up? Why are we sitting down? Why are we doing the Macarena dance to the left and to the right?

01:06:50.400 And the answer is, shut up and do. And that offended me. That upset me. I was a honey badger

01:06:56.180 back then also as a five-year-old and combative and so on. And so that made me get turned off

01:07:01.900 by this kind of zombified, parasitized, ritualistic thing, right? Now, I can sit down with a rabbi

01:07:10.200 as I have when I was, say, a doctoral student at Cornell. I became very good friends with a

01:07:14.440 hardcore Orthodox rabbi called Rabbi Eli Silberstein. We're still friends today, where we can have

01:07:20.360 really wonderful philosophical conversations. He's engaging my mind, right?

01:07:24.700 I was going to ask you, do you ever learn Talmud in like a real deep way?

01:07:28.340 Not in a deep way, in a very, very shallow way.

01:07:30.980 You would soak it up.

01:07:32.480 I'm sure I would.

01:07:33.520 Sorry for like, I'm just thinking about it. Especially with the way your mind works.

01:07:37.220 I have friends, by the way, that went straight to Harvard, got their BTL, went straight to

01:07:41.460 Harvard and these guys sit and learn Talmud all day. It's a bachelor's in Talmudic law.

01:07:45.600 And these guys are the top guys in their class.

01:07:47.340 Oh, I believe it.

01:07:47.960 Their brains are, they're analytical skills. I grew up very much in this world.

01:07:51.220 Absolutely.

01:07:51.680 It's, if it doesn't go a straight line, there's no making things up. It has to equal out. If it

01:07:55.940 doesn't equal out.

01:07:56.480 Just for you, I mean, to sort of support what you're saying. In my first book ever, in 2007,

01:08:03.300 I wrote a book. It's a very technical book called The Evolutionary Basis of Consumption.

01:08:08.040 And I quote Maimonides, who, I mean, probably your audience knows who that is, but he was

01:08:17.880 a physician. He was the physician to the sultan at the time. He was a rabbi. He's a philosopher.

01:08:24.620 And he had proposed that there are eight levels of tzedakah, right? Like pious giving and so

01:08:35.220 on. And so he basically, and what I wanted to demonstrate is that even though he wasn't

01:08:41.000 officially by title an evolutionary psychologist, he was an evolutionary psychologist.

01:08:46.920 Yeah. People's, yeah, go on.

01:08:48.260 Yeah. Why? Because he argued that there are eight levels of piety in giving, the highest

01:08:55.860 of which, which is almost never attained, is when the recipient of the altruistic act

01:09:03.040 and the altruist don't know of each other's identity. Because there, there is no social

01:09:09.820 capital to be gained. If I'm doing the act for no other reason than the purity of the act,

01:09:16.140 and I, I stand to not benefit any social capital from anyone because it's completely anonymous

01:09:22.100 both ways, that's really pure. And so I had taken that to demonstrate that even though

01:09:27.280 you may not be a Darwinist by training, we are all Darwinian beings. And here is Maimonides

01:09:32.560 to your point, who was an evolutionary psychologist.

01:09:35.280 So interesting. It's, that's fascinating. Okay. Last thing. Debating between my last question

01:09:39.980 because it's tough.

01:09:40.880 Go.

01:09:40.980 First of all, as a scientist-

01:09:41.900 Ask both.

01:09:42.400 I appreciate the hell out of it. As a scientist, what are your thoughts on, you know, Fauci and

01:09:49.840 his handling of COVID? And I ask this because I know that you talk about the stupidity of

01:09:54.380 certain anti-vaxxers, you know.

01:09:56.880 Yes. So this idea of settled science is the epitome of a non-scientist. There is no such

01:10:07.140 thing as settled science in science. There are provisional truths, right? So today,

01:10:12.280 we may hold something to be true until someone comes along and they may or may not topple it

01:10:19.480 and falsify it. That's what Karl Popper referred to as the falsification principle. We set up

01:10:24.900 a theory and then everybody comes with their weaponry trying to shoot it down. And if it's

01:10:29.180 still standing, then it looks like it is true. But it is always provisionally true. So there

01:10:34.360 are many intelligent people who propose things that were true 300 years ago that today we know

01:10:39.600 are not true. So what I regret in Fauci's position and all those sort of COVID guys is that they

01:10:46.960 created a world that was no different than the Dark Ages. Don't say that or we will burn you at the

01:10:52.640 stake. Don't say that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth, so to speak. That's what happened

01:10:58.760 with Galileo, right? The church put him under house arrest because he was proposing a cosmic theory

01:11:04.900 where the earth wasn't at the center of the universe, right? Well, that was against the church

01:11:09.900 doctrines and we can't have that. So we're going to either put you under house arrest because you're

01:11:13.920 Galileo. But if you weren't Galileo, we're going to burn you at the stake. Well, Fauci did the exact

01:11:18.380 same reflex, right? So I'll give you a great example. I mentioned earlier Matt Ridley, the evolutionary

01:11:23.700 biologist. His people had written to me. By the way, he was in the House of Lords. He was the Lord in the

01:11:29.880 British Parliament. His people had written to me to tell me that his latest book arguing about the

01:11:38.320 likelihood that the COVID virus had escaped from a Chinese lab, that book was coming out. And it was

01:11:45.560 at the time when you weren't allowed to say that. So I wrote back to them and I said, look, you know

01:11:50.800 that I'm a honey badger and there is nothing that I won't be willing to say, but we need to be

01:11:55.720 non-reckless in our martyr behavior. If we have that conversation and I post it on YouTube,

01:12:03.540 within three seconds of me posting it, it will be removed and likely my channel closed. So it'll

01:12:10.860 serve us zero purpose. And that decision, and they understood it, but that decision always sat

01:12:16.860 bad with me. But it's not because you wouldn't, nothing would, you wouldn't waste the time.

01:12:20.820 Exactly. I'm jumping just to get killed, just to prove that I'm a hero. But so,

01:12:25.720 to answer your question, what I hate about Fauci and all his gangs is that they didn't allow all

01:12:31.540 ideas to be, you know, adjudicated in the arena of, you know, ideas. Now, here is the great cosmic

01:12:40.200 justice and the great irony. Jay Bhattacharia, do you know who that is?

01:12:45.660 No.

01:12:45.820 He is one of the guys, he's a physician by training and a health economist at Stanford.

01:12:51.880 With two other guys, he wrote the, I think it was called the Barrington Declaration. I can't

01:12:58.200 remember what it was, where he was arguing that many of the positions that we've taken as relating

01:13:02.820 to COVID were ill thought. And, you know, they wanted to fire him from Stanford. He was just

01:13:10.880 nominated by Trump to head the NIH.

01:13:13.860 But also, I know, but also there's, what just came out is the clear emails of Fauci literally

01:13:19.520 saying, like, shut this guy down, like, without even a look.

01:13:23.060 That guy should be, I mean, I know he probably doesn't have, he should be in prison for the

01:13:26.240 rest of his life.

01:13:26.760 It's crazy. It's unbelievable. And I just saw another story of, you know, the woman who accused

01:13:32.260 the three Duke players, you know, of rape.

01:13:35.080 She should go, she should go.

01:13:35.860 What should be the punishment for someone like?

01:13:37.260 So whatever the punishment would have been for them, had they been found guilty, that's

01:13:42.980 what she should get. So if it's 30 years, you go 30 years. What's one of the Ten Commandments?

01:13:49.100 Do not, do not, no, and do not bear false witness.

01:13:52.220 Yes, yes.

01:13:52.740 Right? So you're bearing false witness. And even if those guys didn't go to prison, which

01:13:57.820 they didn't, right? It was dismissed.

01:13:59.400 Yeah, in that case.

01:14:00.200 That stain is never going to be washed away.

01:14:03.640 Trevor Bauer from, I don't know if you're familiar with that story.

01:14:06.200 Same thing. He was accused of, I believe, of sexual assault on the Astros. Big time pitching

01:14:13.160 career ahead of him. He was like the ace. He was like one of the big guys.

01:14:16.400 Oh, I think I know this guy.

01:14:16.900 And his girlfriend's wife accused him. Story totally false.

01:14:20.380 He did go to prison, right?

01:14:21.600 They kicked him off the team.

01:14:22.700 Oh.

01:14:22.980 And then it was found out. Total lie. But his career's over. It's just insane.

01:14:27.040 Last question.

01:14:27.840 Yes, sir.

01:14:28.680 Who's the most, I know you're close with Dr. Jordan Peterson.

01:14:33.260 I want your thoughts on him as well as who's been the most inspirational thinker in my life

01:14:38.920 all time.

01:14:40.080 Yeah.

01:14:40.200 Well, I love Jordan. He's a great guy. I don't share some of his reverence for Carl Jung. You know,

01:14:48.900 he does all the Jungian stuff. It's a bit of hocus pocus for me. That's one. I don't, I'm not as

01:14:55.280 religiously inclined as he is. But otherwise, he's a lovely human being, very sharp guy. So I have only

01:15:03.800 good things to say about him. Who is the greatest thinker that's influenced me the most? I'll answer

01:15:09.380 that in two ways. At the most fundamental level, it has to be Charles Darwin, because I'm taking

01:15:14.920 the theory of evolution and applying it to the study of the human mind. In a more temporarily

01:15:20.480 close thing, it's a book that launched my career as an evolutionary behavioral scientist. It was my

01:15:28.060 first semester as a doctoral student where I was taking an advanced social psychology course. And the

01:15:35.220 professor, his name is Dennis Regan, about halfway through the semester assigned the book by actually

01:15:41.160 two Canadian-based evolutionary psychologists, husband and wife team called Margot Wilson and

01:15:47.760 Martin Daly. The book was titled Homicide. And it explored patterns of criminality via an evolutionary

01:15:57.500 lens. And in a very, very elegant way with great theoretical parsimony, they were able to explain a

01:16:06.640 bewildering number of universal patterns of crimes. That was my aha moment. I said, okay, well, I'm going

01:16:13.080 to take that evolutionary framework and apply it to study human behavior in general and consumer and

01:16:19.540 economic behavior in particular. Unbelievable. I love this book. I'm so excited. Guys, I mean,

01:16:26.060 it's coming out. I thought it was going to be coming out in like the next six months. I'm working on it.

01:16:29.220 First of all, I'm not joking. Anyone who's watching this, I know they're part of my, from my ilk type of

01:16:32.860 thing. Like, um, parasitic mind, you're not going to be disappointed. This is a great Shabbat read. If you're

01:16:37.560 sitting around and you just ate a whole bunch of chulant and you're hungry, you know, by the way, I went on the

01:16:43.340 lion diet. That's a whole different discussion. You familiar with that? The meat diet? No. The meat diet? Yeah, it's the

01:16:47.940 carnivore diet. Yeah, yeah. Jordan talks about it. I have an autoimmune disease, so I went on it,

01:16:52.260 whatever. And it's helping you? So far, I feel great. Oh, good for you. I haven't been on for that, that long, but

01:16:56.000 so far, I feel great. Um, either way, maybe you'll hear me scream from New York soon, but

01:17:01.200 you'll know it's not so great. Anyways, guys, this is a must buy. First of all, uh, Gadsad on

01:17:06.280 X. X at G-A-D-S-A-A-D. You hit the million follower mark a little bit ago. And if you want to just

01:17:15.760 crack up consistently, the best Twitter feed, uh, suicidal empathy coming out shortly. Elon Musk is

01:17:22.000 busy retweeting you every single day. I mean- Elon Musk is my biggest fan. He loves you. He really

01:17:28.000 does. No, because- And I love him back. Because you're able to pinpoint with absolute

01:17:32.520 perfect accuracy all the things that drive him insane. I mean, obviously, he has his own

01:17:36.340 personal, you know, situations. Anyways, uh, Dr. Saad, thank you so, so much. I'm so honored

01:17:41.960 to be here. Absolutely. I'm, uh, on my way back in a couple hours. Uh, guys, another amazing

01:17:48.320 episode coming next week. I hope you all enjoyed this one. Peace.

01:17:50.720 Outro Music

The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - December 24, 2024

The Parasitic Mind & Evolutionary Psychology - the Mislaibeled Podcast (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_774)

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