The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - The Unfulfilled Promise of a Pluralistic Lebanon (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_717)

00:00:00.000 This episode has been brought to you in part by the Azraeli Music Prizes, celebrating 10 years of promoting excellence in music composition.

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00:00:28.080 Learn more at azraelifoundation.org forward slash AMP. 0.96

00:00:38.120 And one kid gets up and says, when I grow up, I want to be a Jew killer. 0.97

00:00:42.460 To raucous applause and laughter. 0.99

00:00:46.040 Now, this kid knew that I was Jewish.

00:00:48.400 I was his friend.

00:00:49.100 We grew up together.

00:00:50.040 Hello and welcome to Rivkus.

00:00:52.660 Today, my guest, and I'm so thrilled, is Dr. Gad Saad.

00:00:58.080 He is a professor of marketing at Concordia University, but I believe you're on a pause for a little bit.

00:01:04.520 He has also been a visiting professor at Cornell, Dartmouth, and the University of California, Irvine.

00:01:12.640 And we're very pleased to announce that he is a visiting professor and global ambassador at Northwood University.

00:01:21.660 And I also heard from a friend of mine, who is a huge, huge fan of yours, that we do have another thing in common, in that you love dogs and you don't like the Beatles.

00:01:34.620 Both true statements.

00:01:38.580 I am with you on that.

00:01:40.440 Thank you.

00:01:41.340 Thank you.

00:01:42.360 Finally, a sane person.

00:01:45.400 Exactly.

00:01:47.140 So thank you so much.

00:01:49.080 And, you know, I wanted to kick it off with talking a little bit about your experiences and your family's experiences as a Jew of Lebanese descent.

00:02:00.360 Which I think, you know, given the current state of affairs right now, is really first and foremost, you know, with what's going on with Lebanon and so on.

00:02:14.020 So if you can just share a bit about that with me.

00:02:18.000 Sure.

00:02:18.300 First, thank you so much for having me.

00:02:19.600 Thank you for that lovely introduction.

00:02:22.620 So we were part of, we meaning my immediate family, were part of the last remaining group of Jews in Lebanon.

00:02:33.180 At one point, Lebanon had a, I mean, thriving community would be maybe stretching the term, but certainly there were quite a few Lebanese Jews in the many thousands that lived in Lebanon.

00:02:46.740 But then as things became a bit more precarious in terms of being Jewish in Lebanon, you would see an exodus of Jews, including my extended family.

00:02:58.620 So my grandparents left to Israel in 1970.

00:03:02.700 Many of my aunts and uncles left well before the Civil War.

00:03:06.840 But my immediate family had steadfastly refused to leave Lebanon because we were well entrenched in Lebanese society.

00:03:15.320 And then unfortunately, in 1975, the Lebanese Civil War broke out, where it really became impossible to be Jewish in Lebanon.

00:03:25.480 So we were there for the first year of the Civil War, and we were lucky to, you know, to be able to eventually flee Lebanon.

00:03:33.160 And then we emigrated to Montreal, Canada.

00:03:36.560 If you'd like, I can share with you some of the realities of growing up Jewish in Lebanon, even before the Lebanese Civil War, if that interests you.

00:03:45.620 It absolutely interests me.

00:03:47.840 So please.

00:03:48.560 So the reason why I mentioned this is because, you know, people will often say, well, you know, Lebanon was the Paris of the Middle East.

00:03:59.280 It was progressive and it was tolerant.

00:04:01.260 And I mean, that has some timber of truth to it.

00:04:05.420 But again, it's always in the context of the Middle East, right?

00:04:09.520 So tolerance is not sort of the universal capital T tolerance.

00:04:14.460 It's tolerance in the Middle Eastern sense.

00:04:17.500 Right.

00:04:17.960 So that, you know, yes, we know that you're Jewish.

00:04:21.780 We tolerate you until, of course, we don't.

00:04:25.220 In which case, you better put on some really good running shoes and run real fast and hopefully outrun the ones who want to catch you.

00:04:32.320 So it's not as though I lived free of Jew hatred in Lebanon. 0.92

00:04:38.140 And I tell all this in the first chapter of The Parasitic Mind, which was my 2020 book, where I'm trying to talk about what happens to a society that is perfectly organized along identity politics lines.

00:04:53.260 Because Lebanon is the perfect model of that, right? 1.00

00:04:56.200 Who sits in parliament is dependent on what your religion is, whether you're going to be president or prime minister depends on your religion.

00:05:04.340 Everything is viewed through the prism of your religious identity.

00:05:08.300 So in that sense, it is the perfect example of identity politics.

00:05:11.880 And so in 1970, Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was the president of Egypt at the time, and highly appreciated and revered pan-Arabist, meaning that he was trying to unite all of the Arabs into one grand, you know, pan-Arabic movement.

00:05:32.500 So he was very much of a populist.

00:05:34.160 He passed away in 1970, and as so often happens in the Middle East, but now we see it on university campuses in the West, there are these really sort of violent, feverish protests where people will scream out all kinds of things. 0.87

00:05:51.360 And one of the things I remember as a five-year-old boy, I hadn't yet turned six, as people were proceeding down our street lamenting the passing of Abdel Nasser, they were screaming, death to Jews, death to Jews.

00:06:05.540 And as a five-year-old boy, I turned to my mother, I'm thinking, well, why are they screaming this? 0.95

00:06:11.140 And she's saying, just put your head down, you know, shut up, be quiet.

00:06:14.480 So that was my first exposure of what it was, you know, vivid exposure and episodic memory of what it is to be Jewish. 0.95

00:06:22.840 If you fast forward, I'll tell two additional stories, and then we can drill down as much as you'd like.

00:06:28.660 When I was about maybe nine or almost ten, so before the start of the Civil War, the teacher had asked us to stand up and, you know, say in a few sentences what we want to be when we grow up.

00:06:42.840 So, you know, person gets up, I want to be a doctor, I want to be a fighter pilot, I want to be a soccer player. 0.92

00:06:49.300 And one kid gets up and says, when I grow up, I want to be a Jew killer. 0.98

00:06:53.480 Oh, dear. 0.99

00:06:54.100 To raucous applause and laughter.

00:06:56.900 Now, this kid knew that I was Jewish, I was his friend, we grew up together.

00:07:01.700 And third story, my brother had been a Lebanese judo champion for several years in a row.

00:07:08.500 And at one point, you know, in a culture of honor and shame, I guess it was perceived as shameful that a Jew was consistently winning in these combat sports, in this case, in judo.

00:07:21.880 And so he was approached by some men who explained to him that it was time for him to, you know, retire, lest there might be an accident that happens to him.

00:07:29.620 And that he ended up actually leaving Lebanon.

00:07:33.620 This is prior to the Civil War.

00:07:35.580 To the Civil War, he moved to Paris, France, where he pursued his judo career there.

00:07:40.340 Now, the irony to complete that story, in 1976, after we had immigrated to Canada, you might remember the Montreal Olympics happened in Montreal, Canada.

00:07:50.020 Well, he ended up representing Lebanon in the Montreal Olympics.

00:07:55.760 So the same guy who suffered from the terminal disease called being Jewish a few years earlier, and therefore had to flee Lebanon to pursue his judo career, we can overlook the fact that he was Jewish when it came to representing Lebanon and carrying the Lebanese flag.

00:08:13.760 So that's what it means to be progressive and tolerant in the Paris of the Middle East.

00:08:18.660 Oh, my goodness.

00:08:20.240 That's a lot.

00:08:21.600 I think it's a lot.

00:08:23.900 And I think people do need to hear that.

00:08:29.500 Because, you know, we tend to look at the Middle East through the lens of the diaspora, through the lens of Western culture.

00:08:40.600 And when you're talking about these things that happened, it's also not something in, like, the, you know, well, way back in history.

00:08:53.780 It's recent history.

00:08:56.800 Because as you're saying it, I happen to know that you're only a year older than me.

00:09:01.200 So I picture, like, like, I remember things that happened to me when I was 9, 10, and you carry that with you, you know, and just processing that is a lot.

00:09:16.680 And when you said it was your friend, you know, that just struck me, it's like, it's like a, forgive me, and you can correct me, it's almost like a conditional friendship.

00:09:27.160 That's that small T tolerance that you referred to, that your friend displayed. 0.88

00:09:31.720 Yeah, exactly.

00:09:33.460 Incidentally, I have, you know how at the, when you're in elementary school, you have class photos.

00:09:41.620 Yes.

00:09:42.180 Right?

00:09:42.500 I have, as I'm saying this, I'm getting goosebumps.

00:09:45.100 I have several years of photos where I see him there, right?

00:09:51.060 Like, I mean, I know exactly which guy it was.

00:09:53.200 So it's quite rough.

00:09:54.680 Yeah.

00:09:55.120 As if it weren't enough, what I, what I told you, because you, when I finished telling, recounting stories, you said, that's a lot.

00:10:01.580 Let me hit you with some more.

00:10:02.640 Are you ready?

00:10:03.140 Okay.

00:10:03.580 Yeah, I hope so.

00:10:06.080 I mean, I could probably keep you here for another 40 hours telling you stories, but let me just hit you with two other quick ones.

00:10:12.060 Because I think those stories, you know, we are a storytelling animal, right?

00:10:16.260 So I can tell you all sorts of abstract realities, right?

00:10:21.360 Theoretical realities.

00:10:22.400 You know, what does the Quran say about Jews?

00:10:25.120 Right?

00:10:25.520 Okay.

00:10:25.660 And that's, that's true.

00:10:26.620 That's valid.

00:10:28.020 But narrating a personal story is what sticks with people, right?

00:10:32.160 And so.

00:10:32.680 Right.

00:10:32.920 And that's why I think, you know, my, my personal story has resonated with so many people.

00:10:39.540 The, the day that we left Lebanon, I call this the, the full circle of the star of David.

00:10:47.560 Because it's, it's going to, it's going to start in Lebanon, but it's going to end about two weeks after October 7th.

00:10:54.480 So in the day that we left Lebanon, as we literally were flying outside of Beirut, the, the pilot, the captain announced that we were now outside of the, of Lebanese airspace.

00:11:09.780 At which point my mother took out a pendant, you know, star of David high thing.

00:11:17.160 And it put it around my, my neck and said, now you can wear this, not hide your identity and be proud of who you are.

00:11:25.640 But now let's fast forward to two weeks, roughly about two weeks after October 7th.

00:11:33.920 And you can, you can probably go do a search.

00:11:37.140 The post is still up there.

00:11:39.140 I don't, I don't delete any of my tweets.

00:11:40.800 My wife and one of our children, my son had just, they had just returned.

00:11:50.080 My wife had picked him up in the East end of Montreal, where he had just played a soccer match.

00:11:54.760 And they were coming to pick me up at the local cafe where I was working on my laptop.

00:11:59.400 And as I got into the car, my dad, my dad, my son said to me, daddy, if you were wearing a star of David, where I just played soccer, you'd be dead.

00:12:13.320 So in 1975, we leave Lebanon.

00:12:17.900 And my mother says, you could now wear the star of David.

00:12:21.100 In 2023, my son, who's almost the exact same age as I was when my mother put the star of David around my neck, tells me, in Montreal, Canada, you shouldn't wear the star of David.

00:12:38.440 That doesn't bode too well for the future of Jews.

00:12:46.400 Well, I got you speechless there.

00:12:49.180 Yeah.

00:12:51.100 It hurts, actually.

00:12:53.760 Yeah.

00:12:54.180 Well, that's why I fight, by the way, because, you know, I thought that I had been, you know, you know, when, what is that sign in your mirror?

00:13:02.760 It's that objects can be closer than.

00:13:05.440 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:06.640 Something like that.

00:13:07.500 Something like that.

00:13:08.280 I always get it mixed up.

00:13:09.320 Well, you know, all that stuff had been way back in my rear view mirror.

00:13:15.260 I moved to Canada and for, I mean, they'd be these little.

00:13:18.860 It's very banal incidents.

00:13:21.360 But I felt it was it was a movie that was in my past, by the way.

00:13:26.940 Right.

00:13:27.240 I shouldn't call it a movie because for about 25 years after escaping Lebanon, I haven't had many of these nightmares recently.

00:13:35.280 And actually, I talk about this in the parasitic mind.

00:13:37.840 I would have a recurring nightmare very frequently where and it would take one of two forms.

00:13:44.960 It's either the bad guys are coming to the house to take us away and my gun would jam or I run out of ammunition.

00:13:55.740 And one day I was telling that story to the gentleman who who literally killed Osama bin Laden, Rob O'Neill, who had come on my show to chat.

00:14:07.420 And he says, oh, this is actually a dream that we often have in the military.

00:14:13.240 And it's called the warrior dream.

00:14:14.640 And the only difference is at least he he is actually in the military, in the military.

00:14:22.000 He's got very tough guys that can protect them.

00:14:25.380 And I was just an 11 year old, a 10 year old sitting duck.

00:14:30.300 And so the reason why I speak out is because I know.

00:14:35.240 Right.

00:14:35.540 I mean, I don't have the luxury of having grown up in the West thinking that what we have in the West is the default society across the world.

00:14:45.660 And that's why, by the way, as I often like to remind people, some of the staunchest defenders of the West are usually immigrants who have sampled from the buffet of societies outside the West.

00:14:59.480 And so we're the ones who stand on top of the mountain and say, don't take your freedoms for granted because you don't want to see what's out there.

00:15:06.820 And so exactly is why I can't keep quiet because I do have children.

00:15:11.080 I might be able to outrun them, outrun the bad guys in terms of my life expectancy, but my children and their children won't.

00:15:19.940 And therefore, I have to speak.

00:15:21.580 Exactly.

00:15:22.340 And I and I thank you for that, because you're right.

00:15:25.220 You share a different perspective that actually it feels more realistic to me because those of us who did grow up in this bubble of Canada or this bubble of the US don't get it.

00:15:39.200 And I think because of that, we tend to try and apply our our Canadian North American solutions to a land that thinks differently and and feels differently and intellectualizes differently.

00:15:56.420 So it's almost like we try and put this this square peg into a round hole and we often need people who have lived it or whose families have lived it to say, this is not going to work.

00:16:10.160 This is not how you resolve what you need to resolve if you can.

00:16:15.920 And that actually leads me to because Lebanon, Lebanon in my house has always been a topic of conversation because my equal other, he was he's Israeli and he was a Galani soldier who fought in the first Lebanon war.

00:16:33.780 So we do, it does tend to come up every now and then.

00:16:38.740 And of course, now, even more so, because of the fact that while all eyes were on Gaza, I can only speak to my household, our eyes were on the north.

00:16:52.740 You know, it's like, guys, it's it's tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

00:16:57.540 And now it's it's even louder.

00:17:01.040 What are your thoughts around what is going on right now from your lens?

00:17:06.920 So, sure, I can comment about Masrallah, you know, being taken out. 1.00

00:17:13.040 But OK, there's there's I think a bigger story.

00:17:16.220 And that is you were mentioning earlier that, hey, you know, this is not something that's happened 500 years ago.

00:17:22.340 It's stuff that we're seeing within our lifetime.

00:17:24.520 So to that point, demography is truly destiny.

00:17:29.100 And I often try to remind people, well, Lebanon had historically been a Christian majority country.

00:17:37.500 Right.

00:17:37.720 Yes.

00:17:38.260 Now, I don't think people realize that.

00:17:40.540 And and so one of the reasons why there was greater tolerance.

00:17:45.840 Now, this is, by the way, in no way meant to imply that the Christians don't have and certainly the Arab Christians don't have their own very nasty and virulent form of Jew hatred.

00:17:56.860 But I think in their case, it's because they take on what's called the Dimmis. 1.00

00:18:00.040 I call it the Dimmis psychology. 0.93

00:18:01.820 Dimmis are the religious minorities that are, quote, tolerated until they're not tolerated in Islamic life. 1.00

00:18:07.500 And so one of the ways that I demonstrate, hey, guys, don't take me out and behead me is that I will show even greater hatred to the Jew than you do, because that shows that I'm really part of the community.

00:18:19.020 So but that notwithstanding, Lebanon, to the extent that it was, quote, tolerant and progressive is precisely because it had been a at one point, it was a French protectorate and it was a Christian majority country.

00:18:34.860 Now, it didn't take a thousand years for Lebanon to flip and become an Islamic majority country.

00:18:42.100 It happened before my eyes in the way that you you watch paint dry.

00:18:48.220 That's how quickly it happened.

00:18:50.120 So so the bigger story in Lebanon, I think.

00:18:53.500 I mean, yes, there are immediate things that we could talk about how Hezbollah has taken over Lebanon, blah, blah, blah.

00:18:59.660 But the fact that, you know, Lebanon is a failed state for many reasons, one of which is because, as I said, the demographic realities, the corruption. 0.96

00:19:12.100 And so on, it so it pains me because, you know, I'm I'm very Jewish in terms of my heritage, but I'm also Lebanese.

00:19:23.640 So if you if you if people ask me, you know, oh, you know, you have a particular look to you.

00:19:30.040 Where are you from?

00:19:30.980 I don't say I'm Jewish because I understand that to mean, oh, I'm you know, I say I'm Lebanese.

00:19:36.380 Right.

00:19:37.080 Yes, we are.

00:19:38.140 Our mother tongue is Arabic, not Hebrew.

00:19:41.880 Right.

00:19:42.360 We eat Lebanese food.

00:19:44.620 We listen to Lebanese music.

00:19:46.440 Right.

00:19:46.980 And so one of the biggest regrets I have in my life is that not only I've never been able to return to Lebanon for obvious reasons, but also that my children have never seen Lebanon.

00:19:57.720 My children don't speak Arabic well, if at all.

00:20:01.760 I mean, they understand a little bit here and there that pains me.

00:20:05.100 Now, of course, I would also want them to learn Hebrew and visit Israel.

00:20:08.240 Much of my extended family is there.

00:20:09.640 But the tragedy for me of Lebanon is that there is no conceivable pathway that I can think of where within my lifetime, inshallah, may I live to be a thousand where, you know, I'll ever be able to go back to Lebanon and show them the beauty of the country.

00:20:28.580 Right. For all of the ugliness, there are elements of Lebanese society that are astounding. 1.00

00:20:36.240 The hospitality, the warmth, the joie de vivre.

00:20:40.860 You know, Lebanese are partiers. 1.00

00:20:43.060 Lebanese are big.

00:20:44.920 They're mercantile and that they're great business people.

00:20:49.000 If you forgive me for saying the Lebanese women are arguably the most beautiful women.

00:20:53.680 Maybe I've been paid to say that because I'm married to a Lebanese woman.

00:20:56.220 But, you know, there are a million reasons why, you know, one should be proud of Lebanon.

00:21:03.620 And all this is gone because in this case, you've got some really nasty folks that have have a chokehold on Lebanon.

00:21:10.820 So in that sense, I think in French you say bon débarras, good riddance.

00:21:15.560 Not that even for someone as nasty as Nazrallah, I don't I never wish to, you know, dance on someone's grave. 1.00

00:21:22.040 But the quicker that the Lebanese society can return to truly being a pluralistic society.

00:21:27.660 My God, the the potential in that region is truly limitless.

00:21:31.380 This is an audition to be a cantor.

00:21:41.800 But I don't want to be a cantor.

00:21:43.700 I wasn't raised with any religious.

00:21:45.820 You're Jewish, though.

00:21:46.940 The heartbeat of the community. 0.98

00:21:49.580 I welcome Sam into my community by first taking his foreskin and next showing him the beautiful Twister Bagel. 0.82

00:21:55.960 Culturally Jewish is the only podcast covering the weird, wide world of independent Canadian Jewish art.

00:22:01.520 Listen to Culturally Jewish at the cjn.ca slash culture or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:09.960 You know, you said watching it switch to a majority Islamic was like watching paint dry. 1.00

00:22:16.600 And it was very short period of time.

00:22:18.240 And I think flipping and you can correct me to a more pluralistic society in the Lebanon that it can be is going to be much longer.

00:22:29.920 Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:31.100 Much longer because it just the roots have just taken hold of all the things that you've mentioned.

00:22:38.040 And I think it will be quite a thing.

00:22:41.500 And I think people do tend to look at surface and say, you know, oh, Hezbollah, we got the guy, we got the guy.

00:22:49.620 And then it's like, and kind of do, you know, wash their hands, say, okay, it's good.

00:22:54.560 And not recognizing that you've just eliminated.

00:23:00.580 It's just the beginning.

00:23:02.260 Do you follow me?

00:23:03.220 Like, oh, I'm making sense that it's like, it's not, it's not, and we're done.

00:23:09.980 Yeah.

00:23:10.500 So, I mean, look, I mentioned what I'm about to say.

00:23:14.180 I also mentioned it in the book.

00:23:17.300 So there's this game that I've coined called six degrees of Jew. 0.93

00:23:22.480 And so basically the game is, and I'm going to link it to Lebanon in a second.

00:23:26.200 The game is basically, I propose any calamity to you, and then you've got up to six causal links to demonstrate why it's the fault of the Jew. 1.00

00:23:37.400 Well, I mean, it sounds like I'm being humorous and facetious, but it's actually very powerful because, you know, Lebanon, again, for all of its, quote, progressive nature and tolerance, was very much a six degrees of Jew society, right? 0.91

00:23:52.900 Your wife cheated on you. 0.92

00:23:55.200 Well, who, who, she probably learned about cheating on you through porn. 1.00

00:23:59.540 Who is, who are the peddlers of porns? 0.99

00:24:02.300 Of course, it's the Jews. 1.00

00:24:03.480 Your aunt just got diabetes. 0.97

00:24:06.040 Well, who has the cure for diabetes yet refuses to release the cure?

00:24:11.080 Oh my gosh.

00:24:11.880 Who runs the pharmaceutical industries?

00:24:13.460 It's, I mean, it's the Jews. 1.00

00:24:15.200 They're greedy, right? 0.84

00:24:16.920 And they're the ones who are the famous physicians and scientists, and therefore they are, they are literally choking us by not releasing it.

00:24:24.020 So it's sunny outside today.

00:24:25.640 It's too hot.

00:24:26.380 It's the Jew. 1.00

00:24:27.080 It's rainy. 0.55

00:24:27.680 It's the Jew. 1.00

00:24:28.460 Now, by the way, it is so pervasive in the Middle East that even animal disasters are attributed to the diabolical Jews. 1.00

00:24:37.960 So, for example, you might remember that many years ago in Sharm el-Sheikh, which is an area in the, on the Red Sea, a tourist area in Egypt, there were a couple of shark attacks. 0.96

00:24:50.020 Yes.

00:24:50.560 Do you remember that?

00:24:51.820 Well, yes.

00:24:52.660 I bet you didn't know that those sharks were Jewish sharks that were trained. 0.77

00:24:56.720 Of course they were.

00:24:57.760 Exactly.

00:24:58.460 They were trained by Israel because that was a way to then harm the tourism economy of Egypt, right? 0.95

00:25:06.540 So it sounds as though I'm being flippant when I say that, but that's how the society operates. 1.00

00:25:13.320 Goddamn Jew. 1.00

00:25:14.340 The biggest insult you can, and it's not goddamn Zionist. 1.00

00:25:20.280 It's goddamn Jew. 1.00

00:25:21.980 Jew. 1.00

00:25:22.460 Right?

00:25:22.660 And so the reason why that society can never heal itself is because as long as your foundational definitional metric is the hatred of the Jew, that oil, I always joke that if you want to really get a green energy source, just try to harvest the Jew hatred in the Middle East because it is an infinitely renewable fuel source. 0.92

00:25:49.400 So get rid of all that nonsense. 0.99

00:25:52.820 Don't teach children straight out of the womb that the Jew is a diabolical creature. 1.00

00:25:59.180 And then maybe Lebanon could have a prettier future. 0.99

00:26:03.100 But do you find, though, that we are saying this Jew hatred in the Middle East, but it feels like it's been transported, like it's been packed up in luggage and brought to Europe and brought to Canada. 0.58

00:26:20.660 And just, you know, it's, it's so, it feels so pervasive and has become like just this mindset that.

00:26:33.140 Well, it's normalized, right?

00:26:35.240 Normalized.

00:26:35.680 That's the word I was looking for.

00:26:37.080 That's it.

00:26:37.740 Exactly.

00:26:38.140 So, look, one of the, one of the reasons for, I mean, you were kind enough to mention my new affiliation.

00:26:46.400 One of the reasons why I felt very much compelled to take a leave of absence from Concordia and go to Northwood.

00:26:53.400 I mean, Northwood, independently of the reality at Concordia, was a very exciting project that I wanted to be involved in.

00:26:59.280 But it certainly made it easier for me to accept this wonderful opportunity, given the fact that I was very, very concerned about going back on campus at Concordia.

00:27:10.440 Now, imagine if the average student who's Jewish, but who is completely anonymous, right? 0.72

00:27:16.900 As he or she is walking on campus, people don't know who, that that person is Jewish, and they're feeling incredibly threatened.

00:27:25.100 Well, what do you think I feel?

00:27:27.380 Well, I'm not anonymous, and I'm not unknown, you know, and so therefore, you know, but this is happening in the 21st century in Montreal, Canada, right?

00:27:38.960 So that, you know, the proverbial, you know, canary in the coal mine story, boy, does it apply here.

00:27:46.440 If a Jewish professor is feeling sufficiently threatened that he thinks it's a much more attractive proposition to be a visiting professor elsewhere, that's not a good thing.

00:28:01.820 And to your point, demography is destiny.

00:28:06.500 You said that the Jew hatred is coming in luggages.

00:28:09.340 I mean, it literally is coming in luggages in the sense that if you import people in the hundreds of thousands, in some countries, in the millions, where they're hailing from societies where endemic Jew hatred is not some small but significant minority.

00:28:29.260 So I'll give you an example, the Pew surveys, P-E-W, Pew surveys is a nonpartisan global survey that, you know, administers all sorts of surveys around the world.

00:28:42.440 Several years ago, they had done a survey in Islamic countries of people's responses to Jews, you know, what are your views of Jews?

00:28:54.320 Now, if I told you, Rivka, that 10% of the sampled people had abhorrent views of the Jews, that would be alarming.

00:29:02.620 10% is a lot.

00:29:03.660 But if I tell you that the numbers are in the 95 to 99% of surveyed people, these are scientific surveys.

00:29:16.780 So imagine that statement, I survey, by the way, and my homeland of Lebanon was included in that survey, and I think their number was 98% or 99, I can't remember.

00:29:27.940 So if you have people who are stemming from societies where nearly to the last person surveyed, your attitude towards the Jew is a terrible one, and now you import such people into your country, do you need a fancy professor and evolutionary scientist to explain to you that you're likely to have an increase in Jew hatred in the whole society? 0.55

00:29:53.800 What could be clearer? Gravity couldn't be as clear as that.

00:29:58.020 But yet people shake their head and go, what explains this Jew hatred?

00:30:04.300 I mean, who knows?

00:30:06.680 Well, I think it's a pretty easy explanation.

00:30:08.700 So that's why demography is destiny. 0.99

00:30:11.600 That's why, you know, people, of course, in this case, imbeciles will say, oh, but you're an immigrant, Professor Saad. 1.00

00:30:19.040 Aren't you a hypocrite for railing against immigration? 0.99

00:30:22.680 Well, that's like saying, Ted Bundy is a man, and he was put to death, and my dad is a man. 0.99

00:30:31.720 So they're both men.

00:30:33.240 So why do you hate Ted Bundy so much?

00:30:35.340 Yeah, it's a false equivalency.

00:30:36.940 Right.

00:30:37.520 Can you be so bereft of logic that has to recognize that not all immigrants are created equal?

00:30:44.700 Yes, Elon Musk is an immigrant, but Elon Musk doesn't want to eradicate Jews.

00:30:50.000 So these are kinds of the problems that we're facing in the West.

00:30:53.680 And by the way, that's why I wrote The Parasitic Mind, because that's what happens when a brain is completely parasitized by ideological rapture.

00:31:01.480 Yeah, and when I notice if people point out that logic or that truth, because you're right, it's not anecdotal.

00:31:14.940 It's not.

00:31:15.500 It's fact.

00:31:17.620 It's black and white.

00:31:18.400 So we can believe fact about, you know, the sun rising and setting.

00:31:22.960 Why are we so challenged about facts?

00:31:26.920 Why don't I have this expression?

00:31:29.660 Well, maybe it's not my expression, but when people tell you who they are, believe them.

00:31:33.720 Full stop.

00:31:34.960 Right.

00:31:35.300 But yet we are sometimes, I'm trying to soften it because I can be harsh.

00:31:42.540 We are sometimes a society that is so worried about being politically correct that we lose our sense of common sense.

00:31:55.760 And I've even had that political correctness used to, used, I'm not going to, almost against me as a person of color, where I say, first of all, why are you being offended for me?

00:32:12.240 Because I'm not.

00:32:15.960 Or they'll say, oh, my gosh, you can't say that, Rivka, about people of color.

00:32:22.100 And I say, you know, I'm one, right?

00:32:24.540 Like, just this kind of, just this weirdness.

00:32:29.220 I'm a Gen Xer.

00:32:30.600 Like, we said what we meant and we meant what we said.

00:32:33.520 And I sometimes have a real hard time navigating this correctness when it's like part of not owning what is happening is part of the reason we are where we are.

00:32:48.400 Exactly.

00:32:48.840 So, in the parasitic mind, what I demonstrated is what happens to our cognitive system, our thoughts, when it is parasitized by a whole bunch of bad ideas.

00:33:04.520 My forthcoming book, which I'm currently feverishly working on, titled, tentatively titled, but I'm pretty sure that the title will stick.

00:33:13.700 It's called Suicidal Empathy.

00:33:15.400 In a sense, it's part two of the parasitic mind.

00:33:21.020 Because if the parasitic mind was what happens to your cognitive system when it is parasitized, suicidal empathy is what happens to your affective system, your emotional system when it is parasitized, right?

00:33:33.800 So, it becomes more important.

00:33:36.300 So, the number one thing that you should optimize if you are suicidally empathetic is the currency of empathy, right?

00:33:44.920 So, to say that Venezuelan illegal gang members should not be allowed to crash American borders, that is simply wrong.

00:33:56.380 Because Venezuelans also deserve to live the American dream, right? 0.59

00:34:02.380 To criticize tenets of Islam because they are profoundly incongruent with Western values is simply empathetically wrong and icky and gauche because you shouldn't be criticizing someone else's religion.

00:34:19.020 No, I judge, right, because I have the capacity to discriminate between good ideas and bad ideas.

00:34:29.740 In accepting the position at Northwood University, I had to go through a process to get a visa.

00:34:39.020 Now, I'm Canadian.

00:34:41.140 I'm a well-known professor who defends American values.

00:34:45.920 Yet, because I'm a law-abiding citizen, I had to take physically my doctoral diploma from Cornell University to the border in order to legally work in the United States.

00:35:02.800 So, by which stretch of logic do I have to go through that process but 20 million illegal immigrants can come and crash the society and it would be wrong and racist of me to be concerned about that. 1.00

00:35:20.140 So, the quicker that we can inoculate people's minds and the quicker we can inoculate their emotional system from succumbing to suicidal empathy, the quicker we can return to the beauty of our Western tradition.

00:35:35.420 Couldn't have said it better.

00:35:37.140 Wow.

00:35:37.900 I can't wait for this book.

00:35:39.540 The title alone grabbed me.

00:35:41.560 That's why I went, whoa.

00:35:43.400 Thank you.

00:35:43.980 Well, you know, the book is only slated to come out in 2026.

00:35:52.020 But to your point about it grabbing you, because I've mentioned it on a few occasions on social media and I've seen how viral it's gone.

00:36:02.980 I mean, I could literally do a search on suicidal empathy and it's everywhere.

00:36:07.240 And so, I've been telling my publisher that I maybe need to work a bit harder on it.

00:36:11.300 Yeah, you're going to have to pick up your pace.

00:36:12.900 I've got to pick up my pace and stop slacking around.

00:36:15.340 2026 is not going to cut it.

00:36:17.860 Exactly.

00:36:19.320 Oh, my gosh.

00:36:20.800 This is, I'm cognizant of your commitments.

00:36:24.200 You are a very busy person.

00:36:26.820 I thank you so much for this.

00:36:29.840 One last comment I want to make.

00:36:31.680 Please.

00:36:31.820 Because I'm under the impression that you're culturally Jewish. 1.00

00:36:38.620 Yes.

00:36:39.220 So, what does that look like to you?

00:36:40.980 Oh, okay.

00:36:41.460 Because, you know, we're coming into the high holidays.

00:36:44.760 My mind is all filled with high holidays.

00:36:48.420 Look, you're right that I'm culturally Jewish, but that doesn't mean that I don't adhere or engage in some of the religious elements.

00:36:58.240 But I don't practice those religious elements religiously, if I can put it that way.

00:37:04.040 I love that.

00:37:04.560 So, but, and I've only mentioned this a few times, but since you've given me the lead-in, I'll mention it here.

00:37:12.600 When I was a doctoral student at Cornell, I became very good friends with the Chabad rabbi there, whom I actually recently met up again with his wife.

00:37:25.920 His name is Rabbi Eli Silberstein.

00:37:28.860 And we became friends, and I would go to their house for Shabbat dinners and so on.

00:37:34.720 And towards the end of my time at Cornell, prior to graduating, he once approached me with a request.

00:37:41.700 And usually when the rabbis approach you with a request, you know, fasten your seatbelts.

00:37:48.200 It's coming.

00:37:48.640 I said, oh, Rabbi, what is it?

00:37:51.580 He said, can you do me a favor?

00:37:53.120 You have such a, you know, they always put it in ice.

00:37:55.640 We have such a pure Jewish soul, blah, blah, blah. 0.94

00:37:59.080 Can I, is there any way I can get you to put on Thelin every day?

00:38:05.360 And I actually made him that promise.

00:38:08.600 And from 1994 to about, which is when I graduated, to about 2004, 2005, so about a 10, 11 year period, I put on Thelin every single day.

00:38:21.960 So it's not as though I'm averse to engaging in religious, but frankly, and this may disappoint some of your audience, I do it for earthly reasons.

00:38:33.780 In other words, we are part of a people that has a shared history.

00:38:39.320 That's absolutely true.

00:38:41.100 Now, yes, you can argue that that is rooted in a religious heritage, but I don't necessarily take seriously the fact that the Shabbat candles have to be lit at 721.

00:38:53.820 But if I do it at 722, look out, I'm a bad person.

00:38:57.840 So I practice those things as a reminder of my heritage, not necessarily because I'm wedded to every single element of the religious tenets.

00:39:08.620 I don't know if that disappoints you as an answer, but it does.

00:39:11.300 Oh, it disappoints me.

00:39:13.520 Okay, so now we have loves dogs, doesn't like the Beatles, and share similar views in terms of how you're Jewish, you know?

00:39:24.760 Right, so absolutely not.

00:39:28.460 I think this, I can speak for myself.

00:39:31.340 This has been fantastic for me.

00:39:34.240 Thank you.

00:39:34.580 To speak to you.

00:39:35.480 Likewise.

00:39:35.740 And I'm going to put it out there. 0.93

00:39:38.880 If people haven't read it, they need to get the parasitic mind.

00:39:42.960 And you need to inundate Dr. Saad's Instagram with requests for suicidal empathy, ideally before, you know, the middle out of, let's say, let's give them till the middle of 2025.

00:39:56.780 Okay.

00:39:58.440 Let's make it through the rest of 2020.

00:40:01.380 Fair enough.

00:40:01.960 I'll do my best.

00:40:02.580 Well, and I thank you so much for being my guest today.

00:40:06.840 Thank you.

00:40:07.120 A real pleasure.

00:40:07.960 I appreciate it.

00:40:08.700 And Shana Tova.

00:40:09.460 Shana Tova.

00:40:10.340 Riff Cush is hosted by me, Rivka Campbell.

00:40:18.400 We're produced and edited by Michael Freeman and the CJN Podcast Network.

00:40:23.740 Our theme music is by Westside Gravy.

00:40:26.000 If you like this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

00:40:31.700 To support our work and everything else the CJN does, visit thecjn.ca slash donate to make a monthly donation and receive a charitable tax receipt.

00:40:43.460 Thanks for listening.

The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad - October 01, 2024

The Unfulfilled Promise of a Pluralistic Lebanon (The Saad Truth with Dr. Saad_717)

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