In this episode, I talk about why pursuing an MBA is a good idea and why it's worth doing so. I talk a bit about my own background and why I think an MBA could be a great career choice for many people.
00:00:00.000But today what I thought I would do, and maybe I wish I would have announced this earlier, spend a bit of time talking about what is the value of pursuing an MBA.
00:00:11.980As many of you know, my career has been spent housed in a business school. Those of you who follow my academic work know that I apply evolutionary psychology and evolutionary biology to study human behavior in general and consumer and economic behavior in particular.
00:00:36.760So that's why I'm housed in a business school. So some of the courses that I teach include things like consumer behavior at the undergraduate level, consumer behavior at the MBA level.
00:00:48.860I've taught consumer psychology and psychology of decision making at the master's of science and PhD level.
00:00:56.160So for the past few years, I've taught an understanding our consuming instinct course at the undergraduate level, which is a course where I demonstrate how you apply evolutionary psychology and consumer behavior.
00:01:09.820Then I've also, so this has been at my university, Concordia University, but I've also been a visiting professor at several major American universities at UC Irvine, at Dartmouth College, so the Tuck School of Business, and also at Cornell, my alma mater, the Johnson School, Johnson Graduate School of Management.
00:01:33.660And there, I've also taught consumer behavior, and there I've also taught consumer behavior, I've taught marketing research, and at UC Irvine, I've also taught international marketing, which was the only time that I ever taught this course.
00:01:45.760This was back at, when I was a visiting professor for two years at UC Irvine.
00:01:51.020Next year, actually, I'll be teaching some new courses that I've never taught before. I'll have more to say about that in a while.
00:01:58.640So that gives you a bit of a sense of my background in terms of being housed in a business school.
00:02:05.620But then the next question is, well, did I pursue an MBA? And so this leads us to the question of, is it, you know, is an MBA worth doing?
00:02:14.480And of course, as someone who loves education, who believes that all other things equal, more education is always better than less education, if pursued properly and under the right conditions, then of course an MBA could be extremely valuable.
00:02:32.260And now I'm not talking about extrinsic value in the sense of, oh, you know, if you have MBA after your name, you're more likely to get that promotion.
00:02:41.720That's really not what I want to spend my time talking about. I'm talking more about the purity of the process.
00:02:48.960Is there intrinsic value? Are there intrinsic rewards in pursuing an MBA?
00:02:53.300And notwithstanding the fact that many students regrettably pursue an MBA only because it's a means to an end, the original vision of an MBA was that, you know, you'd have people who were technically trained.
00:03:09.700Imagine you're an engineer who, okay, you've spent quite a few years doing, you know, technical work as an engineer out of your undergrad engineering, but now you want to move on to a more managerial role.
00:03:24.000So, you work at Boeing and you now want to no longer be the one who is doing the calculations and, you know, aerodynamics, but you now want to be leading a team of 60 engineers that involves all sorts of business decisions.
00:03:42.640Well, then you would go off and do an MBA and there'd be great value in that because in your technical training, you wouldn't have seen all the types of courses that, you know, you expect to know from a business school perspective.
00:03:58.400So, in my case, for example, I did an undergrad in mathematics and computer science and so I was the ideal guy to then go ahead and pursue an MBA.
00:04:09.040Okay. Now, there is a bit, well, a lot less added value in doing an MBA if you already have an undergraduate in business.
00:04:21.280So, originally, in many cases, it was, as I said, you have a technical background and then you go and you do, you go to graduate school, you go to business school in the same way that you go to other professional schools, you go to medical school, you go to law school.
00:04:34.240And that was really the idea was, it was graduate training. So, many of the most prestigious business schools don't have undergraduate programs in business. It's meant to be MBA or higher.
00:04:46.860But then, of course, you know, undergraduate MBA degrees started developing and that's perfectly fine.
00:04:53.540You know, you can have a very good undergraduate degree in business.
00:04:57.600But then the question becomes, how much added value do you get if you do an MBA after an undergraduate degree?
00:05:03.260Well, you can. If, let's say, in your undergrad, you specialize very much in finance and economics and then in your MBA, you want to specialize in marketing.
00:05:11.740Well, then there might be value. But all things told, the most bang for your buck you're going to get with an MBA is if you pursue it after a technical degree.
00:05:24.080Now, in most cases, the typical profile of an MBA student is someone who has been, you know, out of undergrad four or five years.
00:05:35.700So, typically, I mean, of course, it's not a steadfast rule, but your typical MBA student might be in their late 20s, maybe early 30s.
00:05:46.100Whereas, for example, in my case, I went straight. I was one of the only, maybe, maybe even the only student in my MBA class to get in straight out of my undergrad.
00:05:56.720So, I had, I didn't take a break after my undergrad. I went straight for my MBA.
00:06:00.580Okay. So, that's the first general issue. Yes, MBA can be great, especially if you're coming from a technical background.
00:06:09.920Number two, as in most things in life, you know, you really get out of the experience what you put into it.
00:06:16.720So, if you pursue an MBA and you take largely soft classes, you know, how to love your employee, you know, and so on.
00:06:29.480Well, that's nice. It's all nice and good, but you really want to use your time in school to be learning the knowledge that you otherwise are unlikely to pick up, you know, week one in your workforce, right?
00:06:46.340So, that's why I always tell my students, try as much as you can to take quantitative courses, right?
00:06:55.180So, if you're thinking, for example, of doing a marketing degree, in marketing, there are courses that are, you know, less quantitative and more quantitative.
00:07:08.380Not to imply that non-quantitative course is not important, right?
00:07:12.140I mean, I teach consumer psychology, which is, you know, involves studying, you know, how do we develop persuasive messages, let's say, in an advertisement?
00:07:20.660What are the types of, you know, decision rules that consumers use?
00:07:25.240So, it's very much rooted in cognitive psychology and social psychology and, in my case, evolutionary psychology.
00:07:31.660But, it's also very good to take quantitative courses.
00:07:36.220So, for example, you're taking big data analytics.
00:07:39.340Now, today, of course, with AI, you have, you know, you can have AI applications in business settings, right?
00:07:46.640Or, in my case, for example, in my MBA degree, I did a mini thesis, a six-credit thesis in operations research, which is an applied mathematics field.
00:07:56.900I studied a problem called the two-dimensional cutting stock problem, which is a problem that arises in many industries where you have, say, in the wood industry, the metal industry, in the glass industry, where you have this raw resource, let's say, sheets of metal or sheets of wood or sheets of glass.
00:08:19.860And, you get an order from a client, I'd like 70 X by X squares to be cut, and I need 30 A by B rectangles to be cut.
00:08:33.540And then, the question becomes, how do you lay out those cuts for a given client's order as to minimize the waste of the raw material?
00:08:45.160It's a very, very important problem that has huge bottom-line implications, right?
00:08:51.240Because if you don't lay the guillotine cuts properly, then you end up losing a lot of money, unless you're able to somehow salvage the wasted resource.
00:09:02.100And so, that was a problem that I had studied for a few years as a research assistant, and I ended up writing up a thesis on that.
00:09:09.760So, even though I was doing an MBA, given that I had a mathematics, computer science background, I still took hard courses.
00:09:18.020I don't mean hard in that they're difficult, although they were, but I took hard quantitative courses.
00:09:23.360I took a quantitative marketing course.
00:09:25.420But, you know, even the first-year courses that all MBA students take, financial accounting and managerial accounting and finance and microeconomics and macroeconomics, organizational behavior, all these courses, they're really, they're indispensable, you know, to truly understand the totality of how business works.
00:09:46.760And so, there's definitely great intrinsic value in pursuing an MBA.
00:09:51.840But then again, here's where I'm going to get a bit critical, because a lot of MBA programs have become astoundingly watered-down programs.
00:10:04.560And I've talked about this on many occasions.
00:10:06.660I even had written a highly popular Psychology Today article many years ago, where I basically said, I can't remember the exact title of the article, but it was something like, I'll have a hamburgers, fries, hold the pickles, and an MBA.
00:10:21.980And there, what I was saying facetiously is that if you look at the requirements for completing an MBA in terms of the number of credits you have to complete at the time when I did the MBA.
00:13:19.700So I want to maybe take a minute or two telling you about some of the incredible courses that I took in my electives, right?
00:13:28.240So as you might imagine, in the first year of the MBA, a real MBA, a two-year full-time MBA, you know, you're taking a lot of the core courses that everyone takes.
00:13:41.400And then in your second year, you end up specializing in different courses depending on your interest.
00:13:46.800One of the courses that till today remains, you know, one of the courses that I found most personally enriching was a course called Group Dynamics, which I took with Professor Jay Conger, who had also been my professor in the first year of the MBA.
00:14:10.240He taught the core organizational behavior course.
00:14:13.880And Jay and I subsequently became friends.
00:14:16.160He's now, after he left McGill, he went to one of the seven sister colleges, McKenna something in L.A.
00:14:25.280And so we've stayed in touch, and he's a wonderful guy.
00:14:29.000His main area of research is on leadership and whether leaders are made or whether they're born, right?
00:14:39.000So it's the old nature-nurture debate when it comes to leadership.
00:14:55.460But you had to go through a rigorous application process because he only picked, I think if memory serves me right, either five or six students in a class.
00:15:08.820And those people would become the group that would effectively go through a whole group therapy session throughout the semester with, of course, Jay serving as the director, the orchestrator of the group dynamics.
00:15:25.960And it's a course where, I mean, as the term says, I mean, it's learning about group dynamics, but learning about yourself.
00:15:33.460So I remember very vividly to, and I actually talk about this in the parasitic mind briefly.
00:15:45.700If I remember, I can't remember, I think it was in chapter one, where I'm talking about the idea that, so there's something called transactional analysis from psychoanalysis.
00:15:58.900I think it's Eric Byrne, I think it's Eric Byrne, I'm really going here on references from many, many years ago, where he basically argued, so scripts that people play, the idea being that the lives that we lead are akin in part to how an actor is given a script, right?
00:16:20.560Here's the script that you're going to play in your character as the Bond villain.
00:16:25.760And so the idea then becomes that scripts that people play in transactional analysis is that the idea that, for example, you might be given a script from your parents that says, you are the great hope of the family.
00:16:39.600We expect you to become a physician or an engineer, and you're the great hope out of the misery that we've had.
00:16:47.240You're going to be the first person to graduate from university.
00:16:51.040So, of course, there's an element that's just your nature, your innate forces, but there's this other nurture element whereby you're handed a script that might shape the types of decisions that you make in your life.
00:17:06.880And so as we went through that course, which, as I said, is effectively this really very deep and profound group therapy session, we had to write a paper as part of our final requirements for that course, where we shared what are the key scripts that define our life's trajectory, right?
00:17:29.720And so if you remember, those of you who read The Parasitic Mind, I talked about that two of the innate ideals that shape my personhood as I tackle life are truth and freedom.
00:17:39.180So it's in that context that I mentioned that course.
00:17:42.300The other assignment that we had to do in that group dynamics course was, I think the gentleman's name was Don Rizzo, if I'm not mistaken.
00:17:55.720He had this theory about various personality types and offshoots of these personality types.
00:18:02.560And so you had to read that book and then explain what was your personality type, what were the offshoots.
00:18:11.860I can't remember what the term in the book was, maybe the tangents or the off, I can't remember the term.
00:20:10.440I mean, I wish some of my former professors would be listening now to appreciate that I'm recounting these stories nearly four decades after they took place.
00:20:20.960And so I remember in my marketing communications course, we had to do a final project where we wanted to understand what are the reasons why people might not sign an organ donor card if they were to,
00:20:40.200for example, tragically pass away in an accident, right?
00:20:44.620If they were, if they were to, if they were to, you know, to die, what would be the reasons why you wouldn't do that?
00:20:53.960Given that, you know, you can benefit other people, you can, you know, your, your, your tragic death might cause many other people to survive.
00:21:03.240And the idea was, of course, that by understanding what are the obstacles that stops people from signing those donor cards,
00:21:10.500then you can develop persuasion messages that cater to these.
00:21:15.520And so that was an incredible project, right?
00:21:17.500I mean, it was, it was certainly social marketing.
00:21:21.120You had to study how to collect data, how to design instruments to understand people's motives, or in this case, their reticence to do something.
00:21:30.700How do you then develop a, a message that tries to persuade them otherwise?
00:21:35.800So again, a, I'll mention in a second, one other course, although I could spend another five hours talking about, you know, all these amazing courses that I've taken.
00:21:44.560Uh, but my point here is that the reason why I, I mean, yes, I, I was a unique student and that I was, you know, very academically oriented.
00:21:54.600I knew that I was going to become a professor.
00:21:56.780So I was very, very intrinsically motivated, but the fact that I am able just on a, on a whim, you know, recount these stories.
00:22:05.740It's not like I went into the, into an archive and I generated these stories.
00:22:09.840I'm just whipping these out from my memory.
00:22:12.440Well, shows how, you know, important those experiences, those learning experiences were to me.
00:22:18.520So if you pursue an MBA, because you just want to scam it, you want to do a, you know, a 30 minute MBA at some bullshit school.
00:22:27.220So that you can get your, your, the title MBA after your name.
00:22:31.700Well, then probably this conversation is not for you, but if you're someone serious, then there is no reason to think that an MBA is, is just some, you know, professional designation.
00:22:41.680You could really, there are some incredibly deep, technical, powerful courses that you could take.
00:22:48.240I'll mention one other quick story during my MBA, and then maybe I'll just, you know, talk about what types of schools you can go to and so on.
00:22:57.920And then, you know, we can call it a day.
00:22:59.640By the way, if you, I see that there are some, a few requests.
00:23:03.840I don't take questions here in the open session.
00:23:07.540If you do wish to ask me questions as relating to this session, you can subscribe to my exclusive content.
00:23:13.380And there is a thread where you can post your question, and then I will go there until 9.15 tonight.
00:23:20.400If you get your question before then, I will write my response, individualized to you.
00:23:26.140So apologies, but I'm not taking any questions here.
00:23:30.060So I had taken a managerial negotiations course.
00:23:32.860I'm not sure how many, I'm not even sure if I've ever mentioned this publicly.
00:23:37.820And if I haven't, boy, you're getting first dibs on it.
00:23:41.620So I was taking a managerial negotiations course, and I'll even tell you the professor's name.
00:23:47.360And I swear to God, to the cosmos, that I'm not looking up my former transcripts.
00:23:53.820I'm not looking, it's straight from memory.
00:23:59.880I'd like to think that he'd be very happy to know that I remember his name 35 years later.
00:24:05.640So first day, I walk into this managerial negotiations course, and we had this class-wide negotiations exercise to do where, you know, you had to, the whole class had to go through these negotiations.
00:24:24.440And then at the end of it, they'd be, you know, a winner, a singular winner of the entire exercise.
00:24:32.000So the first week, yours truly, Dr. Goodlooks wins the negotiations exercise.
00:24:40.080Week two, different exercise, but same principle.
00:24:44.040Dr. Goodlooks wins the, you know, the exercise of that day.
00:24:50.860So the professor comes up to me very gingerly, maybe even back then it would have been triggering to ask about someone's background, although it wasn't nearly as bad as it is today.
00:25:07.320He approached me, he goes, do you mind if I ask what your background is?
00:25:12.280I said, oh, what do you mean, professor, like my academic background?
00:25:17.300Oh, I studied before my MBA, mathematics and computer science.
00:25:21.940He goes, no, no, no, no, I don't mean your academic background.
00:25:23.880What's your, what's your ethnic background?
00:25:26.100You know, I mean, I guess you could tell that I'm not original, I'm not John Smith or whatever, indigenous person or whatever.
00:25:35.040I said, oh, my, my background, I'm, we're Lebanese.
00:25:53.140Now, of course, today that would be, he'd be fired for having promulgated a stereotype about the negotiating mercantile Phoenician Lebanese guy.
00:26:04.580But the point was that, yeah, maybe it's in my blood that, you know, we know how to, you know, negotiate well.
00:26:13.500So, to summarize all this, MBA can be an amazing experience.
00:26:19.620It could be an interesting experience, especially, as I said, if you're coming from a technical background.
00:26:25.220If you take the right courses, it could be incredibly rewarding if you do the real MBA, full MBA, not some watered down, you know, 5% version of a real MBA.
00:26:36.800Now, in terms of which schools to go to, look here, it's, I mean, the answer here is one that's more extrinsically related in that, yes, if you get an MBA from MIT or Stanford or Cornell, my alma mater, or Harvard, yes, that opens you up to a lot more interviews from specific types of schools.
00:27:04.140Many schools, many schools, not schools, companies, post your MBA.
00:27:08.580The idea being that, just like, for example, law school, it's very, very hard to get certain interviews or, you know, internships with certain law firms in New York if you don't come from one of, you know, six or seven, typically Ivy League law schools.
00:27:30.480Now, of course, there are, you know, the top business schools in the world.
00:27:37.660By the way, actually, the school that I'm at, the John Molson School of Business, is consistently ranked in the top three, four business schools in Canada and in the top, like, 70 or so in the world.
00:27:50.000So, it's a world-renowned business school.
00:27:53.060Actually, the business school of my university is more globally renowned than the brand name of my university.
00:28:03.380So, many people would know McGill University, which is another English school in Montreal.
00:28:10.300They would know McGill more than they know Concordia.
00:28:12.180But when it comes to the John Molson School of Business, it's actually, you know, it's punching above its weight cost, as they say.
00:28:21.580So, which school to go to, it really depends.
00:28:24.740Of course, there is a question of money.
00:28:28.840Many of the elite private schools are exorbitantly expensive.
00:28:34.920That doesn't mean that you can't go to an in-state state call.
00:28:38.720You know, you could go to Purdue University or Ohio State University.
00:28:43.320Or if you're in California, you can go to UC Berkeley, which is a state school, a public school.
00:28:48.560Or you go to University of Michigan, which is also a public school.
00:29:07.480So, there are ways by which you could still attend top universities or top business schools, even if you're not super wealthy and that you can go the public route.
00:29:18.560You know, University of Florida has a good business school.
00:29:20.680As I said, University of Michigan, UC Berkeley, UCLA.
00:29:26.320All of these are ultimately public schools versus, say, Duke or MIT or Cornell or University of Chicago.
00:29:33.720Of course, if you're interested in economics, University of Chicago is historically the place to be.
00:29:40.160So, you know, it's tough to advise you as to which school to go to.
00:29:44.780But to kind of conclude, oh, and I'll actually, I want to, before I conclude, I want to mention one other thing.
00:29:51.840At my own university, in my own school, we actually have, so we have an undergraduate in business.
00:30:00.740You know, you can specialize in marketing or finance or accounting or supply chain management or management, organizational behavior and so on.
00:30:28.700Most PhDs go on for academic positions, of course.
00:30:34.680But the reason I'm mentioning all this is because at the master's level, we have something quite unique at my school, which a few other schools have.
00:30:42.240A growing number of schools are now doing.
00:31:13.940It's just basically typically courses.
00:31:16.340You know, you pass those courses and you go on to the next courses.
00:31:19.020The MSC is like a thesis-based program.
00:31:23.900Like you would have in other, you know, MAs or MS programs.
00:31:29.060You take typically one year of coursework.
00:31:32.200And these are usually much more research seminars.
00:31:35.080So, you're actually, as part of the required readings of the courses, you're actually reading scientific academic papers.
00:31:43.780And then you have to do a thesis, a full-blown master's thesis with a supervisor.
00:31:50.700So, it's smaller in scope than, of course, a doctoral dissertation, but it's a full thesis.
00:31:58.280So, I've supervised, you know, several master's theses.
00:32:03.740And some of those works, you know, I place the quality bar very high.
00:32:10.160And so, some of those works have subsequently led to publications and top journals with the student that I supervised in various top journals.
00:32:22.620And so, the benefit of doing an MSC are multiple-fold.
00:32:30.420Number one, remember earlier I was saying that, for example, if you already have an undergrad, you may not want to do an MBA.
00:32:36.620Well, an undergrad in business, I mean.
00:32:39.440Well, one of the things that the MSC allows you to do is if you want to avoid having another generalist degree, the MSC grants you a specialization in premature.
00:32:50.440Because you are specializing by virtue of you doing a thesis, by definition, in a very specialized and narrow topic.
00:33:00.240So, let's suppose you're interested in international advertising.
00:33:06.060So, that way, when you finish your MSC, it's not as though you might go into investment banking or McKinsey Consulting or like you really, your passion is you want to be a marketing researcher within, you know, a global international marketing context.
00:33:23.480Well, maybe you're going to do a thesis on some international marketing topic.
00:33:28.900You might study, do fear-based appeals, meaning advertisements that use fear as part of their, the copy of the ad, do they, are they as effective across cultural settings?
00:33:46.680Well, that might become a thesis topic and then you'll end up, you know, proposing a set of hypotheses, designing the data collection instruments, collecting the data, conducting a literature review, analyzing the data, arriving at conclusions.
00:34:01.040Very much what you do when you publish an academic paper, scientific paper.
00:34:05.760So, the beauty of doing an MSC is if you think that you'd like to have a specialization orientation prior to going out into the job market after completing a graduate degree in business, then the MSC becomes really attractive.
00:34:24.800And now, there aren't as many MSC programs in business schools as there are, of course, MBA programs, but they're growing in number.
00:34:34.260And so, that might be, for some of you, a very attractive option rather than the more generalist MBA.
00:34:41.000So, to conclude, yes, an MBA could be very rewarding, independently of the fact that, yes, you might get a salary bump, it could be a very rewarding intellectual experience if you choose the right program, if you take the right courses, it could be very enriching and intellectually challenging.
00:35:03.740Which school you go to, of course, depends on a whole range of issues, but, you know, of course, depending on how much, what your, you know, budget is, what, you know, how good your background is, your grades are.
00:35:20.500Many of these programs are very, very competitive to get into.
00:35:23.100It's not very easy to get into many of these top business schools.
00:35:28.840I hope I've answered some of your lingering questions about the value of an MBA.
00:35:37.760From my perspective, from the perspective of the professor, there are good aspects in teaching MBA students and, regrettably, some less than good ones.
00:35:51.480The good part is that, of course, the students are a lot more mature.
00:35:55.300However, they usually have a lot more experience in that they've been out there in the workforce for, as I said, four, five, six years.
00:36:07.760Given that they're doing an MBA, and, you know, given that it's quite selective to get into good business schools, you know, you expect them, on average, to be quite studious, quite intelligent, quite hardworking.
00:36:19.160The difficulty with the MBAs, and that's only gotten worse with the growing sense of entitlement, is that it's often difficult to deal with MBAs because they truly have internalized the customer is king ethos.
00:36:35.120And that doesn't work well with Dr. Goodlooks, right?
00:36:38.020No, I will not design different schedules for the exam to suit each of your travel schedules.
00:36:48.400There's this thing called the course outline.
00:36:50.840That course outline stipulates exactly when we're meeting.
00:36:54.060You decide if it coincides or conflicts with your work schedule.
00:36:58.740If it does, then you end up not taking the course.
00:37:03.640So, no, I will not be providing seven different time periods for you to take your exam.
00:37:12.080No, I will not fudge the grades because otherwise, if you don't have a 3.7, Procter & Gamble won't be interviewing you.
00:37:20.600And so, there isn't a magic way by which, wink, wink, I'm going to add grades to your final grade.
00:37:26.400So, there is a bit of that because a lot of the students, regrettably, end up being extrinsically motivated.
00:37:34.480And I'm the king of intrinsic motivation.
00:37:37.260And so, sometimes that can cause a bit of friction.
00:37:39.980But luckily, very early in the course, I kind of, well, not I kind of, I do set the guidelines and expectations.
00:37:47.280And so, that the ones who end up staying in my course, you know, end up seeing eye to eye in terms of what they want to get out of the course.
00:37:56.340If any of you are ever interested in taking a course with me, it's never too late to apply to pursue an MBA.
00:38:05.700Okay, I'll just, I keep saying I'm going to end here.
00:38:08.980But let me just mention that in my latest book, which, by the way, is coming out on paperback on May 14th.
00:38:17.720It's called The Sad Truth About Happiness, Eight Secrets for Leading the Good Life.
00:38:22.440And towards the end of the book, I describe two stories, two incredible stories of people who ended up completing their PhDs in their late 80s and early 90s.
00:38:40.500And so, imagine, excuse me, when I get a student who comes into my office and says,
00:39:00.620And then I usually proceed to tell them one, if not both of those stories.
00:39:05.380And suddenly, them being 27 or 29 or 32 or 34 is not that old compared to someone who decided to go back to study in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
00:39:18.080So, luckily, education is one area where we can pursue, assuming, God willing, we're healthy of mind and body late into our lives.
00:39:43.120I've actually had fans who just wrote to me and said, Hey, I'm going to be in Montreal.
00:39:47.400Are you teaching anything this semester?
00:39:49.420And then they come and they sit in on a class.
00:39:52.700So, thank you so much for attending today's session.
00:39:56.840I promise to try to be a bit more routinized and offer some schedule for people to be able to, you know, work these sessions into their schedule.
00:40:11.680And until next time, cheers, everybody.