00:00:00.000Welcome to the show, Regina, and thank you for coming on tonight.
00:00:24.780I was absolutely fascinated with our conversation the other day, and I want to pick that up
00:00:30.000at some point tonight but first we got to get back to the beginning could you please tell the
00:00:35.400viewers exactly what your background is who you were before this pandemic and eventually we're
00:00:43.100going to get to why you wrote the book and then what's in it but just give give the viewers a
00:00:48.040little bit of a rundown on who you are please okay uh thank you shadow thank you for inviting
00:00:53.920here tonight. My background for the sciences is I have a Bachelor of Science with a specialty
00:01:02.340in Applied Math and Theoretical Physics, and I have a Master's of Statistics and a PhD in
00:01:08.240Statistics. I used to do a lot of consulting. I used to work as a principal statistician for an
00:01:15.480economics firm, and we did a lot of consulting for the government. We specialized in risk-benefit
00:01:20.220options analysis. I did step down from my career path years ago, following an accident. So I did
00:01:30.160have an accident where I was crushed between two vehicles while putting groceries in the trunk of
00:01:35.320my car. And yeah, it was a bad time, a bad time. So I ended up stepping down and focusing on rehab
00:01:44.500and family so um i don't know fast forward to to now just to put that out there so my my life took
00:01:53.780a big turn after that event and i did focus on my my health rehabilitation family we were big into
00:02:00.600sports the kids sports their education um uh and then the the pandemic hit so
00:02:08.660So when the pandemic first hit and all of the politicians were running around screaming, two weeks to flatten the curve, as a statistician, how did that hit you?
00:02:23.280Well, up until the point where the pandemic was hit, I wasn't really paying a lot of notice to what was going on.
00:02:30.060I was involved with the kids. I remember hearing Premier Ford here in Ottawa saying that he was
00:02:39.280going to close down the schools for a couple of weeks after the March break. And I was driving
00:02:43.820down the road and I almost did a 180 back home because I could not believe that just out of the
00:02:50.260blue he was going to do this. So right away I went on my computer, fired it up, went on,
00:02:56.900I collected all the stats I can get about what was going on to do a quick, my own quick risk analysis to kind of gauge what the risk was to myself, my kids, my family, people at large.
00:03:13.040And right away, there was some red flags.
00:03:18.300Well, I guess at that time, we didn't know because we hadn't heard yet about who this virus would affect or make very ill. Right. We didn't know that. I would have thought because it was a cold like thing or, you know, a viral infection that it would have harmed children and older people alike, like the flu does. But that wasn't the case. Did the statistics show that in the very early days of COVID-19?
00:03:47.140Yeah, they were tracking this right early on. And when I went on, there was actually quite a bit of information about what was going on over, you know, in Italy and in different parts of the world.
00:04:01.660And at that particular time, they already there was already information showing that it largely affected the elderly and those with comorbid conditions.
00:04:12.080And it changed by a factor of about a thousand between the risk for, you know, the youngest and versus the oldest.
00:04:20.440So they already had that information available.
00:04:23.020And they also you could see what was going on in, you know, over in Europe before it got here.
00:04:30.700So you can kind of see the progression.
00:04:34.240Yeah, but some of the things that were going on in Europe, I mean, like people are going to be going, wait a minute, hold on.
00:04:40.020They were showing video of people, you know, like falling down dead in the streets in Spain and Italy and China.
00:04:47.360And they were terrifying people. Right. And we know after how long now that that was never the case.
00:04:52.920That's not how COVID works. You don't just get it and go and fall down in the middle of in the middle of the street.
00:05:01.280So what were the numbers from Italy like?
00:05:04.900Were they much the same as the pandemic went through?
00:05:08.920Were they much the same as Canada and other countries?
00:05:12.420Well, I mean, there was some special circumstances in Italy.
00:05:17.480But when I looked at the data, what I was looking at is all the different parts of the world,
00:05:22.000how the progression was in terms of the doubling rate between, you know,
00:05:26.780how long it took to to double the incident rates and about when you'd see the peak and when it
00:05:31.920would start to come down so i was kind of looking at those kind of trends as well as uh who had
00:05:36.700impacted the elderly the young that kind of thing so they did they did have um that information
00:05:43.060available pretty early on um in canada well it was worldwide data so you can see you can see the
00:05:51.620same trends happening in terms like you know once it started once it started rising you can see when
00:05:57.260the peaks hit a few weeks after you hit the peak and it would start coming down so you had that
00:06:01.480same kind of trend in most places except a couple places where it kind of made me laugh because you
00:06:06.480can see that you couldn't trust the data coming out of places like China and Iran I actually sat
00:06:11.640down with my husband showed him the curves and we laughed about it you know what's interesting
00:06:16.600as i think back now three and a half years and all of the different uh infection rates i guess
00:06:24.180you would call them in all the different provinces across our country and ontario and quebec were so
00:06:30.300badly hit they were red all over the map and bc and alberta they were getting the two but manitoba
00:06:37.040and saskatchewan and i noticed this because i live in manitoba were strangely unaffected by this
00:06:42.900thing and i thought wait a minute how how is that that manitoba and saskatchewan aren't getting the
00:06:49.240cases that ontario is getting and that bc and alberta are getting it's and this went on for
00:06:54.120months and people in manitoba were even bragging about it and i thought well we're the covid free
00:07:03.480province here in manitoba come to manitoba if you want to live right and i thought is that just
00:07:09.740lagging data or was that the fact that manitoba didn't catch on as quickly to the fraud that was
00:07:16.680going on in the rest of the country that's an interesting question um
00:07:24.520when i was looking at the data so i didn't those weren't the questions that i was asking
00:07:32.340when i was looking at the data i was mostly looking at what the risk was to you know the
00:07:38.300various members of the family. And also, I'm sorry, were you looking at deaths? Or were you
00:07:42.880looking at just case counts? Oh, I was looking at both. First of all, I was looking at the cases
00:07:48.740just to see when it would peak and when it start to fall. And then I was also looking at the deaths
00:07:53.340and I was trying to I did a quick estimation of what I thought was the infection fatality rate
00:07:58.800that if you were to get it was what is the chance that, you know, you would die. So you could do
00:08:04.140this calculation pretty easy early on to get a rough estimate. And right away, you could see
00:08:09.760that the estimates that they were giving to the public were way off, like by order of magnitude
00:08:15.360or more. Like you could do that calculation easy early on. And both my husband and I independently
00:08:21.960arrived at approximately the same IFR. So we knew right away that there were some issues with
00:08:30.320what we were being told and and and the strategy that the government um developed didn't really
00:08:38.640make any sense so when you had this information at hand because you're an expert with statistics
00:08:47.280what did you do with it did you wait for the government to maybe and hope for the government
00:08:54.240to come out with actual numbers and say that they were mistaken and when that didn't happen
00:08:59.540what did you do next what was the next course of action
00:09:03.160well for for us i mean you've got the data right in front of you right you're going wait a minute
00:09:13.260this is wrong what are they doing right so the first thing so the first thing i did was i talked
00:09:18.600to my kids i mean my my kids and i talked about it um basically we are of the opinion that they
00:09:24.220didn't have to worry too much they can go on doing whatever they're going to do i didn't even think
00:09:28.660they should stop going to school or their sports. I didn't see a reason for it. And for my husband
00:09:35.660and I, you know, it was, you know, more risk than the kids, but it's still it was manageable. So I
00:09:41.320mean, we weren't going to go in and party or anything, but we weren't really that concerned
00:09:46.980when it came to like my parents, we are more concerned with my dad, because he was in very
00:09:51.280poor health. So we I called my father and talked to him about laying low until we figured out what
00:09:58.240was going on. And I talked to my siblings who were in healthcare, you know, to, because I was
00:10:05.040concerned about them, because they would be frontline. So we took the necessary precautions,
00:10:08.900but we were not. When I looked at the numbers, I thought this is a very interesting virus,
00:10:16.980because it really did not need to impact the economy the way it did. I mean, it didn't really
00:10:23.820hit the working class very hard and children were not at high risk so there was really no reason for
00:10:30.580all the the lockdowns like I thought that they should be doing a more strategic approach
00:10:36.280and you know more targeted so that was but I mean what did I do next I mean
00:10:43.140they locked everybody down there really wasn't a lot we could do I mean when they told us on
00:10:48.240Thursday that this was coming I still went to the gym on Friday I still carried on normally for the
00:10:53.580weekend. And in the following week, everything started shutting down and then there was nothing
00:10:58.180you really could do. Right. But when you looked at these statistics, did you notice when they
00:11:06.220started to fudge numbers, when the case counts started to really go through the roof? Was that
00:11:11.660like a warning signal to you? Okay, well, that's a funny kind of question. The first
00:11:24.420thing I was looking at is strategically what made sense for the government to do, kind
00:11:29.640of like what would be the strategic approach. As time went on, the way they were counting
00:11:33.640cases started to change, and the reliability of the stats got worse and worse as time went
00:11:40.940on so that's and then and then you became it became more sensational well it was pretty
00:11:48.120sensationalized initially but the manipulation became more and more apparent I believe as time
00:11:53.160went on I could do more with the data in the beginning than later on I guess my question to
00:11:58.780you then would would be did you notice like when did you first notice that the data was
00:12:04.940not right that they started to manipulate it
00:12:08.340my issue was mostly the strategy was was off and then the way they were counting things was off
00:12:22.200i i i'm not sure how exactly to answer the question that i because i don't that's okay
00:12:26.920i don't think the way that you're thinking like what you're right you're you're thinking straight
00:12:33.680statistics right and i'm thinking how can you possibly use statistics to find out what really
00:12:41.780happened if they're giving you false numbers and you don't know i mean this is what we talked about
00:12:46.840on the phone the other day by the way guys if you're just joining the show now the author of
00:12:50.980fisman's fraud the rise of canadian hate science is our guest tonight her name is regina watil and
00:12:56.040we're happy that she's here my point here is that how can you use statistics to your benefit or to0.79
00:13:01.720our benefit if they're giving us crap a load of crap like when they say that somebody and0.83
00:13:07.820toronto's health authority admitted this on twitter i couldn't even believe it when somebody0.98
00:13:13.040was asking do you count a covet death as a positive case of covet no matter how they die
00:13:18.880if they fall off a ladder if they're hit by a car if they have brain cancer and the toronto
00:13:24.020health authority answered yes if the person is covet positive then it's listed as a covet death
00:13:30.360and they would throw that into their statistics.
00:13:58.720And this was, yeah, this was a big issue throughout the entire pandemic.
00:14:05.160But initially, the biggest issue I focused on initially was the fact that it really did not impact, like it was not a high risk for the majority of the population.
00:14:17.940It was a high risk for the elderly and those with a comorbid condition.
00:14:22.980so it didn't really matter like how they how sensationalized it was how they were counting it
00:14:28.680um if my kids were were got covid and you couldn't tell or was very mild I don't there was there would
00:14:35.600be no reason to lock everybody up like so it was really what they were doing based on the data
00:14:40.680so the manipulation became more of a problem to me when they started using it as an excuse to do
00:14:49.180things that, that, that the data did not warrant. So they tried to use it to, to, to lock everybody
00:14:55.680up and they shouldn't. And then they, later they tried to use it to, to scare people into getting
00:15:00.120the vaccine. So that, that's when the things really worried me because I can push aside all
00:15:09.260the sensationalism, that stuff, it doesn't really phase me because I can read, read the data and
00:15:15.360know, you know, basically take the appropriate precautions. But I knew early on that there was
00:15:23.640a problem because they were acting opposite to what the data suggested they should do. So that's
00:15:28.540what I was concentrating on. So where did this, I mean, the book is called Fisman's Fraud,
00:15:34.180The Rise of Canadian Hate Science. It is a number one selling book right now on amazon.ca.
00:15:40.680And you say Fisman's fraud. For those of us outside of Ontario, we know that Dr. David Fisman was a member of the Ontario Science Table. Is he the one that came up with this modeling that the government used to jam these lockdowns and vaccines down our throats?
00:15:56.500well the the the book that i i wrote gets into a particular um study that dr fisman and his two
00:16:06.920colleagues did so dr fisman worked along two um colleagues uh ashley a tweet and afia amiko
00:16:15.000amoko sorry i'm not good with pronunciation um but what they did was uh they developed a model
00:16:23.400and this was after the Omicron surge. So we just went through Omicron and these researchers
00:16:31.600basically concocted a model to show that unvaccinated people pose a disproportionate
00:16:37.960risk to society. So they concocted this model and then they tried to pass off their fabricated0.90
00:16:47.500results as fact so this is where the issue is so at the time there was real world data that
00:16:54.400posted by the um government of ontario and for omicron it showed the very opposite it showed
00:17:01.820that vaccinated individuals had a higher incident rate than unvaccinated unvaccinated individuals
00:17:08.860but um you know that doesn't no matter what kind of manipulation they did it was not looking good
00:17:15.600for the vaccines so with with fismans basically concocted a model that basically said the opposite
00:17:24.400tried to pass it off as the real deal and then advocated for vaccine mandates and passports
00:17:31.900so basically overwrote the omicron wave with a fake simulation saying the opposite so
00:17:37.680this guy who is still by the way advocating for vaccines on his x page he calls himself
00:17:44.860cis cis cis cis man now so we obviously know where his politics lie but when you say concocted
00:17:52.920you did this guy like does he have a history of modeling these kinds of things these kind
00:17:58.060kind of epidemiological breakouts elsewhere in the world so he he he's a physician but he's also
00:18:07.280an epidemiologist so and he teaches mathematical modeling and when i say concocted i mean he
00:18:12.640developed a model it was a deterministic model completely determined by whatever you feed it
00:18:17.780and he you feed it the inputs to get the outputs that you want so it was actually a very simple
00:18:23.160model pretty much governed by just a couple of parameters which is like the immunity of one
00:18:28.420group versus the immunity of the other he put in the inputs that would give him the desired outputs
00:18:33.440and and basically it was used to to scapegoat the the unvaccinated and to justify vaccine
00:18:41.120passports mandates and and restrictions so he comes up with this as a member of the ontario
00:18:47.140science table right so he's like well no he had actually so he was on the ontario science table
00:18:53.000but he had stepped down by this point oh interesting so he still had a voice with the
00:18:58.620government i guess because this is the modeling they used to lock us down once again at least
00:19:04.460in ontario and as i mentioned to you on the telephone the other day what happens in ontario
00:19:09.360generally spreads to the rest of Canada, both ways,
00:19:13.340out to the Maritimes and out west to where we are?
00:21:29.180sorry and and then he went even further like not only did he did you concoct uh fabricate the data
00:21:36.820try to pass it off as fact the real data was readily available and he ignored it so and then
00:21:44.640when it was brought to their attention they didn't correct and they refused to correct
00:21:48.080by this time did we i i'm sorry because my timelines get all screwed up every now and again
00:21:55.980because it's it's just so difficult so many things have happened over the past three years
00:22:00.640but you've you've got them locked down obviously you wrote the book um when did we find out for
00:22:07.780sure that there were breakthrough cases with this gene therapy was it when omicron came out
00:22:15.240is that when the media started talking about it or was it way before that like omicron was like
00:22:20.820was it not november of 2021 or october of 2021 when that wave hit okay so breakthrough cases
00:22:31.860were already well established in the delta period all right all right so we so so the vaccine was
00:22:38.980rolled out in uh start it started in december 2020 but that was just you know mostly for um
00:22:46.320physicians and healthcare workers so most of the people started taking it you know I think
00:22:52.720started ramping up March April May of 2021 and then the second dose started ramping up in the
00:22:59.960middle of June but even in even by the spring of 2021 early in the rollout breakthrough cases
00:23:07.940were quite common they were so common that the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases and only
00:23:14.700started tracking the ones that resulted in hospitalization like breakthrough cases are
00:23:19.160pretty common and by by July of 2021 the summer of 2021 when people are getting their second doses
00:23:27.240there was already some really big outbreaks amongst mostly vaccinated populations so you had
00:23:36.220huge outbreaks even in Delta when they are telling you that you know get vaccinated so you don't
00:23:42.780transmit so that you don't you know get sick they already knew at that time that it didn't stop
00:23:48.800transmission and that vaccinated people when they get it were about as likely to pass it on as
00:23:55.220unvaccinated they knew this before the mandates came in all right before but what happened is
00:24:03.460by you know end of november early december you have omicron hold on hold on before you get to
00:24:10.500Omegra, let me stop you for a second there, because to me, like we knew the people who were following all of this stuff through the Delta outbreak, we knew there was breakthrough cases.
00:24:21.420We knew there were reports of cruise ships getting outbreaks of covid, even though all the people on these boats were vaccinated with two doses.
00:24:30.220We knew that there were getting outbreaks in extended care homes and all of the people in there were vaccinated.
00:24:37.600So we knew all about this, but the government never admitted it, like not right out front.
00:24:43.240As a matter of fact, I recall both Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau going on TV and saying this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
00:24:53.660Right. So we can say they knew. And we could be fairly right about it.0.96
00:25:00.860But they were still lying to people to get them to take the vaccine.
00:25:05.880so right so one of the things so one of the things that my book does is that it carves a path
00:25:15.400through the pandemic and it compares what was known and when to what we were being told it
00:25:23.740lays it right out so you can kind of see how they don't add up so yeah so so and and and it makes
00:25:34.300it pretty clear it's actually pretty incriminating um we we did know a lot of things and they did
00:25:40.720know a lot of things and when you look at reports written by the federal government i mean the media
00:25:45.060didn't pick up on them and they didn't report them but even what was being uh reported by like
00:25:51.840the chief uh science government scientists it admitted a lot of things it admitted they didn't
00:25:57.960know if it stopped transmission and they didn't know how long it would last and they they didn't
00:26:02.700know a lot of things and and it's right out there but that's not what was talked about
00:26:07.600and they did know about breakthrough cases in delta well what they what they talked about
00:26:14.780at the very beginning was it's night was it 97 or 95 percent effective at stopping the virus
00:26:22.620isn't that what they said and i think pfizer and moderna were pretty close 96 95 or whatever
00:26:27.680and then the next week it was 92 and then the week after that it was 88 and then the week after
00:26:32.520that it was 83 and so on and so on the efficacy kept getting worse and worse and worse as more
00:26:40.340people got vaccinated and yet people still kept it's amazing what the media and government and
00:26:48.300that propaganda machine can do right oh yeah it's it's the gaslighting has been extraordinary and
00:26:56.120and and there's been gaslighting not just by you know the politicians there was scientific gaslighting
00:27:01.780I mean, when you look at FISM and study here, that is got to be one of the biggest cases of scientific gaslighting I ever saw.
00:27:08.840You can see for yourself, you know, right on on even with the government data, you can see for yourself that with 80 percent of the population vaccinated, the cases soared to to to, you know, five times what they were before.
00:29:14.840and back and forth with them um sponsored this paper uh gina was it the university of toronto
00:29:22.360who initially put this out well the university of toronto is where the researchers are from
00:29:27.600or the university of toronto and so you i went to the university of toronto because they have
00:29:32.980an integrity office and i asked them to to look into it and it was funded by cihr but cihr has
00:29:42.200an agreement that if there's an issue with the funding it would be the organization like
00:29:49.300University of Toronto to look into it so I'd have to go to University of Toronto first
00:29:53.080and when they slammed the door then I went to CIHR and with CIHR I felt they had a duty because
00:29:59.960the study was used in parliament and when the study is used in parliament to justify restrictions
00:30:05.300There's a duty to set the record straight. And the president, the tri-agency presidents, their CHR president, NSERC and SSHRC, they decided, nope, they're not going to do anything.
00:30:22.740So basically, my book goes through and discusses what the response of these organizations were.
00:30:28.920And then when they decided not to do anything, I escalated and I went to the Ontario Provincial Police.
00:30:35.300Because when I was digging around, I was finding a lot more.
00:30:40.300And I believed it was time to bring in the OPP.
00:33:13.820their tactics. But if you do not have transmission, they are in trouble. And
00:33:21.660this shows that when they were in trouble, and you could not establish that, that they resorted
00:33:27.980to fraud. That is very damning. And it goes beyond, we didn't know, because what I show is
00:33:36.520they did know they knew and they locked in and and and and that's very powerful
00:33:44.020that's fair that you go to any did you go to any politicians with this
00:33:50.480um before before i wrote the book well with the statistics once you knew like you put that 150
00:34:00.840pages report together for the opp and you got no satisfaction with that the university of toronto
00:34:06.100rejected you and shut the door so did you go write the book immediately after that or did
00:34:11.820you think well maybe if I go to a politician you know like maybe I can take this to Derek Sloan
00:34:16.520or maybe I can take this to a conservative MPP or even a conservative MP or somebody who would
00:34:23.880be interested in seeing this because it's clear fraud it is clear fraud but what happens is that
00:34:30.740I would go to at first, you know, I was hopeful. So I just kind of went step by step, you know,
00:34:36.400from CMS to each one. It became pretty clear by the time I hit CIHR, even before they came back
00:34:45.340with their answer. I was thinking, well, what happens when they say, no, too bad. At that point,
00:34:52.960I had gotten some more information about what was going on in CMAJ. And they didn't just it's
00:34:59.840it appeared that they didn't just publish it there was there was a little bit more to their
00:35:04.140involvement um so I knew before getting my information back from CIHR that I would be
00:35:11.440writing to the OPP and I had already started on that path writing to the OPP and then as I was
00:35:16.900writing to the OPP I thought what happens if they come back and they don't investigate
00:35:22.180is is that the end and I thought if if they don't come if they do not investigate then
00:35:27.920this is going to be turned into a book and people will and I'm just going to put it into a book but
00:35:34.820the thing is that there's a lot of power in establishing a textbook case of fraud
00:35:44.400and I think that it's very very important for people to see it
00:35:49.900um because i think at this point it changes the it changes the ball game all right they can no
00:35:58.460longer deny that they knew it was no longer you know oopsie we made a mistake or you know things
00:36:05.980changed nope this is this is this is there was intent here and i think that's very important
00:36:13.340for those who are fighting um you know there's a lot of people who lost their jobs there's a lot
00:36:20.080of people who have been going through the courts and uh i'm hoping that this can can change can
00:36:26.580change things it's a number one or at least was last week a number one bestseller on amazon.ca
00:36:33.900talking to our friend derek smith who had the number two book with his new uh dr seuss style
00:36:40.520book about justin trudeau i think this one is about is that how the prime minister stole christmas
00:36:47.240or maybe i i can't remember exactly the title of the new one i apologize derek if you're watching
00:36:51.400right now but uh he was telling me about some problems that he has had with amazon in terms
00:36:59.320of distribution and fudging numbers because one week he was number one and the next week he was
00:37:05.960down to number 38 and he was like wait wait what what what happened all of a sudden have you had
00:37:13.300any difficulties at all with amazon here in canada in getting the book out or any other means of
00:37:20.440distribution yeah because my book because of the the title of the book's pretty bold and um so i
00:37:29.540did not do any pre-release press like I just kind of it just kind of got out there uh at a certain
00:37:37.300at a certain time so when it got out um I just did a few days of pre-order and then it went
00:37:43.720up for publication and the publication date was the seventh the issue I had was I had established
00:37:49.920links the pre-orders were going well um that's when you get the the number one in in uh some of
00:37:57.260the categories in Canada. And then the day the actual publication day hit, which was November
00:38:05.0807th, all of a sudden, my links were cut, the Amazon links were cut, and nobody could buy the
00:38:15.600book. And nobody could buy it for like, on Amazon for like, over a week. And there was like, I was
00:38:23.360calling them every day um it was very bizarre uh i i never got a straight answer about what happened
00:38:31.700my what i think happened is from what i gather from what i was told is that uh maybe uh well
00:38:41.740the content was flagged but i'm guessing probably through ai and that created the disruption and
00:38:48.240maybe then people had to look at it and they had to get people involved uh it seems to be sorted
00:38:52.800out but that was a very rocky start um in the meanwhile i started establishing a link to like
00:39:00.080indigo and that's for freedom put it on their website so we were doing workarounds
00:39:06.640so it wasn't i can't say it was smooth but it seems to be sorted out now interesting that you
00:39:15.140bring up ai because we had this great discussion last week about artificial intelligence um with
00:39:22.140Karen Kingston. And we were talking, how did these governments all align and work in such
00:39:29.540lockstep with each other? And I'm not talking about provinces in our country. I'm talking
00:39:35.000about federal governments from all over the world, all wanting to build back better all at the same
00:39:41.220time. As Justin Trudeau said, this pandemic provides a unique opportunity to build back
00:39:50.680better ed boris johnson in the uk at the time said it joe biden said it you know i mean all
00:39:57.980of these guys were saying it's ai it's the same reason that people are having their bank accounts
00:40:03.740canceled it's the same have you had any problems like that at all with my no not those bank accounts
00:40:11.840or a paypal account or anything at all no i haven't had any anything to do with the bank
00:40:19.040accounts are our PayPal accounts, but I don't really have much of a PayPal account. So, I mean,
00:40:24.060I don't do much on PayPal. You do have a bank account, so you've got to watch out for that. I
00:40:30.820mean, more notorious people than ourselves have been debanked. Jeremy McKenzie, obviously, is the
00:40:36.900first one that comes to mind. They actually debanked him for, they never really say. They
00:40:43.120just say, we don't want your business. And that's the thing about it, right? It's all in their terms
00:40:47.120and conditions so you can't fight it because you signed that 27 page contract with the fine print
00:40:53.020smaller than oh let's say a nanoparticle that could be found in a certain gene therapy that
00:41:02.340people have been taking across the world it's very very small so sales have been good now
00:41:08.260now that you're back on track everything is going well people are buying this what kind of comments
00:41:12.260are you getting well the feedback's been excellent like i i'm i'm i i can't i can't explain how how
00:41:21.020good the feedback has been um the people who read it like some of the things that are people are
00:41:27.420saying is that when they read it they go through it they get quite angry at places some get very
00:41:33.660very emotional um but in the end a lot of people feel validated and empowered so there is a feeling
00:41:40.220of empowerment by the time they're finished with this book um it does uh like i said uh give a
00:41:47.420clear uh carve a good path through the pandemic so you get your timelines you know straight because
00:41:53.060like you said shadow people you know so many things happen that you forget when they happen
00:41:57.840so this this is very good that way and that you you have a clear path through the pandemic
00:42:02.780It gives context as to how this study was used and why it's very important that it doesn't go forward, that something happens, because there's more to this.
00:42:18.920People have to realize there's more to this than just a small little study scapegoating.
00:42:23.960Um, the, the, the authors, the researchers were pretty clear in that what they were trying to
00:42:31.860demonstrate was that, um, vaccine choice, uh, should not be left to the individual. So basically
00:42:40.560it shouldn't, it comes down to not regarding vaccine choice as an individual right. And this
00:42:48.680goes right towards the charter and and and kind of reinterpreting the charter no right was violated
00:42:54.440here it shouldn't even be considered an individual right like it's scary stuff um and and and the fact
00:43:01.000is that that demonstration was based on fraud so there's actually it brings a really strong
00:43:08.060argument as to why we need protections and i think that it's very very important that um we get them
00:43:15.600there's a lot of people who have certain knowledge of what's happened in this country
00:43:23.460in the last three and a half years and they've chosen to stay quiet about it they'd rather not
00:43:28.020talk they don't want to rock the boat they don't want to put themselves at risk of losing anything
00:43:33.760you're different in that way you wanted to get the word out you even ran in the last election
00:43:39.440for the people's party of canada in a writing that uh you might get tarred and feathered for
00:43:44.560you know running for that party i mean that is a liberal stronghold that you're in right now
00:43:50.460and i'm sure you got a lot of sideways looks at the very least why were you so adamant
00:43:58.520about getting this information out to people
00:44:02.240well that was summer of 2021 and in the summer of 2021 they were making the vaccine mandates uh
00:44:11.880the universities were requiring that students get mandated, sorry, students get vaccinated in order
00:44:18.700to attend a university campus. I had two, my two older children were in university. They were
00:44:24.680varsity level athletes in track and field. They were both, you know, set to go to the nationals
00:44:31.580when the pandemic hit. So they were top competitors and neither one of them want to
00:44:38.360take this vaccine. Both of them were banned from varsity sports. Both of them were banned from
00:44:44.800campus. When Trudeau announced the election, he also talked about mandating the vaccine for
00:44:55.060federal workers. I had stepped down from, you know, I hadn't, I had stepped down from my career
00:45:00.560path. So we were single income here and we were dependent on, my husband works for the federal
00:45:05.700government so we were hit very very hard by the mandates along with many other people and I could
00:45:12.560not believe that they could bring the mandates in given that there was absolutely no justification
00:45:19.360for them statistically you could show there was no justification whatsoever for the mandates at
00:45:25.040the time they were being introduced you could show that so I stepped up and ran yeah but there
00:45:35.200was a lot of people who knew the information that we knew they didn't have the statistical proof
00:45:41.440like you had because they weren't able to work it out for themselves but they knew and yet they
00:45:46.720refused to do anything about it but you were different so what inside of you made you do this
00:45:54.400was it your kids not wanting to take this vaccine and being denied sports you had a lot at stake here
00:46:02.500i think that we all have a lot of stake maybe at stake people just don't see it
00:46:08.060i did not see this going well no matter what you did um like i i can see you can see the trainwreck
00:46:16.020happening you know from miles away and you're just not able to stop it i could see the problem
00:46:20.400right from the get-go and with the mandates it i think that it was the kids not just my kids
00:46:28.060but kids in general there there was absolutely no reason for any any child at all to take these
00:46:34.380vaccines and there was already that there there's a lot of uncertainty with the vaccines and even
00:46:42.900what we did know was not good when it came to the children we already knew about myocarditis
00:46:48.160when when when they were mandating these for the universities and we knew that the highest risk was
00:46:53.180for you know kids that were my boy's age like it was but i think maternal instinct is is probably
00:47:02.640what pushed me over the edge when it came to running for the ppc i just couldn't the children
00:47:08.520should shouldn't yeah what about writing the book and getting that report out to the opp i mean was
00:47:16.180that the same motivation no it's not it's not quite the same motivation um like you said a lot
00:47:26.080of us knew that there were you know people we were being deceived we were being lied to um but there
00:47:32.800was no accountability whatsoever and i went to the opp and i went and wrote the book because
00:47:40.200this study was different from all these studies it's not just oh they lied they deceived this
00:47:47.020study because it was a textbook case of scientific fraud you can show um you can establish intent
00:47:53.800and when you establish intent um that's very powerful for for those of us who want to get
00:48:02.480the truth out you can now start to do something in terms of accountability this this could be
00:48:06.920their Achilles heel like this really does change things have you made contact with any
00:48:14.520attorneys at all is there any kind of legal action that you've looked at pursuing
00:48:20.120uh well I have reached out like I've talked to a couple of constitutional lawyers just on the side
00:48:29.260because I was when I was researching my book I wanted to um discuss some of the things I put in
00:48:34.900my book so just just on the side i just reached out to a couple to get some feedback um in terms
00:48:42.040of some of legal action i have nothing going on right now all my energy went into getting this
00:48:46.900together and as soon as it was together and it was you know the way i wanted it it went out so
00:48:53.040um i think i on i have a a podcast coming up on december the 8th with um leighton gray and that
00:49:01.980will be interesting because he has you know some court cases and i really would love to talk to him
00:49:07.720about how this if this can be leveraged in any way to help that out like that that really does
00:49:14.660interest me yeah i'm sure that he would have i mean he he's been one of the few attorneys across
00:49:21.500this country who have been doing work like this uh because he also sees the monster that we're
00:49:27.340facing right now he was on the show a couple of weeks ago and uh yeah i definitely he's probably
00:49:32.500he'll probably take the case on i'm not sure what he's going to do with it because he's got that big
00:49:37.120uh what do you call those multi uh cases he's got yeah he's got a big class action going on right
00:49:45.140now across three different sections of people who've been harmed by the lockdowns and the
00:49:48.800vaccine so and and all these other cases going on on the side so this may he may find somebody who
00:49:55.000could do it you know on your behalf if he can't do it but i can tell you uh without speaking for
00:50:01.540him that i'll bet he'd be interested in this case you've got factual evidence that it's a fraud
00:50:09.500as you say it is a textbook case of fraud and there's so many people complicit in it not just
00:50:16.680david fissman but the government of ontario the government of canada i mean this report
00:50:25.260commissioned by the university of toronto we know that david fissman has taken money from pfizer we
00:50:31.000know that he has taken money from astrazeneca but how did this particular model like was it his
00:50:37.720influence with the ontario science table uh gina did this help get it out there how did he get
00:50:45.240wrapped up with the federal government because they use that as well right well david fisman was
00:50:51.280involved in in the the pandemic response uh at every level of government so he was doing modeling
00:50:58.680um right i think before the pandemic was even called in february 2020 he received grant money
00:51:05.700to to to model the the pandemic so he was already on the federal radar early on and he was called
00:51:13.180into the house of commons to speak you know in may of 2020 so he was already involved so
00:51:19.420he did not need the ontario science table to reach the federal government um but yes when he
00:51:26.520when he was on the interior science table of course that did advise a lot of different
00:51:31.180organizations so that just something like this i mean you've got to be able to take this to a
00:51:36.020pretty influential member of the government whether it's an elected official or a bureaucrat
00:51:41.040right because this is heavy duty they're going to put all of their eggs in this basket man i mean
00:51:46.640like okay we're going on your report fisman so this better be right well this this report was
00:51:53.200very different i mean the second it was published media ran with it media does not run with with
00:52:00.880with these studies like the way they did with this fisman study you're looking at i think over 90
00:52:05.900media outlets over 100 stories ran with this basically warning of hanging around with the
00:52:12.400unvaccinated and and it was unbelievable it got um what is it the number number two cited studies
00:52:22.540they've ever had in first cmaj i have to look up on my table but it's very it got a lot of publicity
00:52:31.700And like I said, within four days of the publication, it was waived around in Parliament.
00:52:35.980And this was at a time that they were looking for anything to justify these restrictions against the unvaccinated.