00:05:54.000Of course, there was resistance as well.
00:05:55.560There was an anti-protest put on by First Nations from across the province who were not all against the idea of Alberta independence, but we don't know exactly what happens to the treaties.
00:06:08.200If and when Alberta separates, although Danielle Smith, the premier of Alberta, addressed that in an address to Albertans earlier this afternoon, which we'll play part of in just a second.
00:06:18.460And again, our guest tonight is Keith Wilson, attorney Keith Wilson.
00:06:22.680You probably recognize him from Freedom Convoy 2022.
00:10:27.980If there is a successful citizen-led referendum petition that is able to gather the requisite number of signatures requesting such a question to be put on a referendum,
00:10:38.680our government will respect the democratic process and include that question on the 2026 provincial referendum ballot as well.
00:10:52.240See the little captions underneath the screen there? I'm surprised there was no gluck, gluck, gluck.
00:10:55.720now let's talk about the elephant in the room that being separation we are well aware that
00:11:01.000there is a large and growing number of albertans that have lost hope in alberta having a free and
00:11:06.760prosperous future as a part of canada many of these albertans are organizing petitions to trigger
00:11:13.160a citizen initiated referendum as i mentioned earlier the vast majority of these individuals
00:11:18.600are not fringe voices to be marginalized or vilified they are loyal albertans they are quite
00:11:24.680literally are friends and neighbors who've just had enough of having their livelihoods and prosperity
00:11:31.800attacked by a hostile federal government. They're frustrated and they have every reason to be.
00:11:37.720I want to talk directly to those Albertans. I know how frustrated so many of you have become
00:11:42.360with our country and the feeling of having politicians living thousands of miles away,
00:11:46.920passing laws and rules that have cost you your loved ones, jobs, careers, dreams and opportunities
00:11:53.160for a brighter future now none of us knows what the future holds should ottawa for whatever reason1.00
00:11:58.920continue to attack our province as they have done over the last decade
00:12:04.040ultimately that will be for albertans to decide and i will accept their judgment
00:12:11.240hey keith hi shadow how you doing welcome to the show good to have you back on
00:12:16.760uh great to be back how's my audio uh your audio is fine everything looks and sounds great so let
00:12:21.960let me ask you that that was the clip that you sent me from danielle smith's address to albertans
00:12:27.140this afternoon it was much longer i think it was about 12 or 13 minutes in total but that
00:12:31.980two minutes was definitely a very large part of it she she brought up the elephant in the room0.85
00:12:37.200she brought up alberta independence do you think that she is posturing here is she playing politics1.00
00:12:47.720Well, I think she's accurately reading the pulse of Alberta and perhaps appropriately contingency planning for whether once we discover who we elected.
00:13:03.480You know, we don't know whether we elected the Mark Carney, you know, plagiarizing the conservatives platform, or whether we have elected the Mark Carney from his book Values and all of the many speeches he's given around the world and his obsession with net zero.
00:13:30.320the conservatives today uh through andrew sheer because pierre polyev is not an mp even though
00:13:36.940he probably will be soon he's running in the uh the battle creek riding i think i've got that right
00:13:41.900uh in alberta even though we hear that that multi-candidate organization is trying to get
00:13:47.480their hands on that riding in the next couple of months but we haven't even got a by-election
00:13:52.180called at this stage of the game parliament hasn't even sat yet king charles is coming to open it
00:13:56.860but anyway that's a whole different topic what is the mood of alberta right now are people upset
00:14:02.780there was a huge rally at the legislature this past weekend looked like hundreds maybe thousands
00:14:07.080and that was not a that was not a rally that was organized by any of the established
00:14:13.840groups or new political parties that have formed that are focused on separation that was just a
00:14:20.300a couple of concerned Albertans that decided, let's put on a rally. And it was very, very
00:14:27.200limited advertising. So I was quite surprised at the hundreds of people that showed up.
00:14:34.040Everybody's talking about it, the idea of independence and separation. And they're also
00:14:40.180talking about the shock of the election and the realization that apparently there's millions of
00:14:50.100canadians that are content with the disaster of the last 10 years and want four more years of it
00:14:55.580so that that's a real shocker it's a it's a gut punch to so many who even staunch separatists
00:15:03.640held out some hope that um to be blunt some sanity would prevail but you know carney announced
00:15:10.500you know trudeau racked up more debt than every other prime minister stacked on top of
00:15:19.740one another and carney announced he's going to take us even further in debt that devalues the
00:15:28.280money in your bank account that devalues that paycheck of the construction worker of the tech
00:15:34.400worker that makes everything more expensive it contributes to inflation it's remarkable so
00:15:41.480a lot of what what happened uh a week ago monday with the federal election is so many albertans
00:15:49.620that were on the fence just said that's it i'm done we need a new path what is the spectrum of
00:15:57.080feelings across the province right now if you take out the ndp the leftists which in alberta are
00:16:03.180definitely the minority are we talking disappointment anger rage even like how does
00:16:08.760it feel there right now bubbling cauldron be all of them but but definitely the talk of the town
00:16:13.700is this idea of independence and um you know if you go into a restaurant and you can happen to
00:16:21.480overhear the conversation at the next table you know what they're talking about uh i saw a post
00:16:26.520today on x from someone who was walking the elevated pathways they call it the upper 15 or
00:16:32.700something in calgary and um just in the process of walking from you know one office tower through
00:16:39.200the maze to get to another office tower, they crossed paths with four groups of different
00:16:45.200individuals, and she overheard what they were talking about, and it was independence.
00:16:49.840So there's definitely, and you know, there's a, I think there's a combination of fear of
00:16:55.940the uncertainty of it, but there's also, there's an element of determination that we're just
00:17:06.420we have a federal government putting its knee on our economic neck and depriving my kids and my0.84
00:17:15.760neighbor's kids and grandkids of a prosperous future we're just not putting up with it anymore
00:17:22.200so there's that but there's also excitement you know it's kind of like when dad talks about hey
00:17:28.300kids you know when the kids are younger we're going on a summer holiday this summer you know
00:17:33.080where are we going dad you know so there is a little bit of excitement about the adventure of
00:17:37.120what lays in front of us too it's interesting how many different groups there are all talking about
00:17:44.700this same topic and i'm not sure if any of these groups are at war i know that some of them are in
00:17:49.580disagreement you'd mentioned that the rally at the edmonton legislature this or sorry the alberta
00:17:53.960legislature this past weekend was just a grassroots movement from some concerned albertans who have
00:17:59.540had enough we've got uh news from the western standard today that tells us uh the alberta
00:18:05.300republican party has merged with another one of the parties i think it's the independence party
00:18:10.740of alberta we still have the alberta prosperity project out there doing their thing chris scott
00:18:16.160did his uh his gas stunt a couple of weeks ago down in mirror he was selling gas for 80 cents
00:18:21.400a liter just to show albertans what it might be like in a in a independent alberta is it possible
00:18:28.440for all of these groups to come together i'm not sure how many others there are well it's interesting
00:18:34.120you know my background and we all right yes we all got parachuted into in february of 2022
00:18:41.820you're gonna be the guy that brings it all together aren't you well well no i let me let
00:18:47.060me share with you my experience of the last week please um and so you know when i arrived in ottawa
00:18:54.820during the Freedom Convoy, there was all these different groups and some of them were more
00:19:01.420sophisticated than others. Some were ad hoc, some were longstanding, but they all had the same goal
00:19:06.760in mind. They all had the same outcome. Some of them had, you know, warts and things that others
00:19:12.720didn't have and challenges. But I said to my wife last week and others that this past week with all
00:19:21.480the different phone calls I've had from from leaders of the many groups there's about 13 groups
00:19:26.440between the political parties and then the ad hoc grassroots groups like Alberta Prosperity Project
00:19:32.180that I was having flashbacks to being in Ottawa and so I'm not I'm not frightened about that
00:19:40.920because I saw what happened in Ottawa during the Freedom Convoy which was it was a very flat
00:19:48.200structure and the reason why i think that protest was successful um was so many of the people like
00:19:57.040just about every single one of them was there for the same reason they had the same list of
00:20:02.840concerns they had the same list of objectives for themselves for their most importantly for
00:20:08.720their families in their community and i'm seeing the exact same thing here i'm seeing albertans
00:20:13.520on their own articulate what they think's gone wrong in their relationship with ottawa and i'm
00:20:21.120seeing clarity crystal clarity uh of thought and description as to what they want to see happen for
00:20:28.800their future so i don't i'm not particularly concerned that we don't have one leader per se
00:20:38.060um uh there's lots of time uh it'll evolve um and that's the significance of the premier's
00:20:45.620announcement today is we now one of the uncertainties for me as i've been mapping out
00:20:49.880the chat the political chess board is the timeline and now we have some certainty around that and i
00:20:55.540think it's a very smart timeline because it's realistic you know you know part of me would
00:21:01.360like to see a referendum a provincial referendum where each eligible alberta voter so resident
00:21:07.180here of six months over 19 years of age that's a voter in alberta um uh so if you want to vote
00:21:15.160in our referendum and you're in ontario you still have time to move here and buy some property
00:21:20.680you know jeff wrath uh yes yes i've known jeff for many years and him and i have spoken regularly
00:21:30.200And I, I am, I am very happy with his determination, you know, his background in fighting for justice and recognition of treaty rights for 34 years and successfully.
00:21:45.320So it's just, it's kind of funny that the left's tried to make this treaty thing into something.
00:21:51.820It's just not, I do want to get into that, but in talking to Jeff, he was on with me a couple, three weeks ago.
00:21:59.800and he was pushing for a referendum he like i mean he's with app obviously one of the founding
00:22:05.820members of it and he's pushing for a referendum before christmas this year is is that a doable
00:22:11.500thing or is that just wishful thinking just moving too fast yeah it's not possible when you when you
00:22:17.460look at the the timelines and and i don't think it's prudent i mean that's what i was going to
00:22:21.640say is part of me was hoping because we have in alberta we have scheduled municipal elections
00:22:26.880every four years it's a fixed date okay so and it's for school boards as well so school boards
00:22:32.180and and and all the local officials get elected on the same day it's in october and it's coming up
00:22:38.140and in the past it's very easy because you're assembling all the voting stations you're going
00:22:42.840through all that process it's very easy and some municipalities will have their own plebiscite on
00:22:47.740whether they're building a new swimming pool or whatever um so it's very be very easy to have a
00:22:53.480province-wide referendum. So part of me was thinking it might be this October. But the reality
00:22:58.540is, you know, there's right now, if I were to be cautious and conservative about it, I'd say
00:23:07.520there's a third of the people in the province who will never, ever vote in favor of independence.
00:23:13.880And there's a third, at least a third, that will, with 100% certainty, no matter what,
00:23:22.260vote for independence and then there's that middle third and to me those sounds like it sounds like
00:23:29.380covid to me it's it's amazing how many people believe the the nonsense didn't believe the
00:23:35.240nonsense and that soft middle in between would could go either way right they'll go with what
00:23:39.760they think is cool yeah and i think it's because it's such an economic decision right um and it's
00:23:48.020an identity decision i really do think albertans will take it seriously um and there's legitimate
00:23:54.080questions to ask as we're seeing people ask them and helping people understand the details of the
00:24:02.220option of independence and what it would look like and how it fits in with trump and 51 and i know
00:24:08.340we'll talk about that yeah um uh are all things that are going to take time to calmly explain
00:24:17.540Not in the chaos of rhetoric and hyperbole, but calmly lay out, here are the facts, here's the scenarios, so that people can make a truly informed decision on whether they think it's in their interest.
00:24:34.960And it's one vote. Doesn't matter. First Nations don't get five votes and I get one. I don't get five votes and they get one. Each voter gets one vote.
00:24:47.540let me ask you if the rhetoric has already started because you just referenced it
00:24:52.880and it's going to get hot very fast if it hasn't already i mean from my vantage point i've been
00:24:58.880seeing first nations there was a counter protest in edmonton this past weekend pretty near the
00:25:03.240legislature uh there was no face to face there was no anger or rancor that i saw in any of the
00:25:10.540videos or the photos uh but they were there making their case for their own treaty rights and i i'm
00:25:17.460not quite clear on that yet but what about the left-wing corporate media what about not just
00:25:22.320alberta left-wing corporate media but i mean from toronto has there been any uh down talk from the
00:25:31.900globe and mail the star have you noticed any of that stuff starting yet because it will oh yeah
00:25:37.080so we've got an hour right so i can take my time and break some of this down dude we've got as long
00:25:41.980as we need go ahead okay okay so can we just park the the media for a second and let's focus on the
00:25:49.900treaty and the aboriginal issue yeah if you're okay with that shadow absolutely yeah dude you
00:25:55.200want to talk about you're here for a reason so let's talk about the treaty rights first so
00:26:00.340first of all, there's an amazing guy on X that I just discovered last night in his
00:26:07.800Berta dad. So Alberta without the A and the L. And he's First Nations, status Indian. He's got0.91
00:26:15.680the card. And he pointed out, it's the most eloquent takedown of this argument that I've
00:26:22.540seen. He pointed out in mere minute and a half or something of this video, I've been trying to
00:26:28.160promote it, that the treaties are immutable. They're permanent. It doesn't matter whether
00:26:36.280the flag over top of the reserve is a Canadian flag, an Alberta flag, some new flag, or an
00:26:46.220American flag. They continue to have their treaty rights, and whatever government they're dealing
00:26:51.940with whether it's ottawa the canadian government or whether it's the alberta new alberta government
00:27:00.020in the country of alberta in edmonton or whether it's it's uh if if you know this trump thing were
00:27:07.220to happen right so the the treaties no one's talking about changing the treaties no one's
00:27:14.560talking about not recognizing treaty rights no one who's in support of separation it's who's
00:27:21.480credible is talking about that and you know who is the most experienced litigator in canada
00:27:29.780fighting the federal government for 34 years to get them to honor treaty rights the key spokesman
00:27:38.360for the alberta prosperity project jeff rath it was one of the reasons they created the alberta
00:27:43.380prosperity project was because they were concerned about the treatment of first nations in alberta by
00:27:48.120the federal government. So that's point number one. The treaties remain the same. Calm down,
00:27:53.440everybody. You know, and that's this message from this First Nations guy to his fellow First
00:27:58.860Nations. It's like, you guys, think about this for a minute. It doesn't matter what flags there. It
00:28:04.200doesn't change the treaty rights. It just changes who you're dealing with, okay? Well, let's talk
00:28:10.000about that. Who are they dealing with now? Ottawa. Ottawa. They're all wards of Ottawa.
00:28:18.120They have others, thousands, tens and tens of thousands of Ottawa bureaucrats whose job it is to to house First Nations.
00:28:29.440And we know tongue in cheek, what a stellar job they've done at that.
00:28:47.620Oh, and then, of course, clean drinking water. Right. So Jeff Rath and others will say and I will say, you know what, guys, maybe those guys in Ottawa actually haven't done such a good job for you.
00:29:02.020when maybe it might be a good opportunity here
00:29:05.200to see if Alberta can do a better job.0.98
00:29:29.420and the referendums held next year in 2026, each First Nation who's a resident of Alberta and
00:29:37.780older than 19 years of age will have the right for one vote, just like me, just like my wife,
00:29:43.240just like my neighbor. And if there is a vote in favor of separation, a clear majority of
00:29:50.060Albertans vote in favor of it, then the negotiations begin. And the Supreme Court of Canada has made
00:29:55.280clear in the 1998 reference decision regarding Quebec succession, and in the Clarity Act,
00:30:04.280or the Clarity Act addresses it as well, that negotiations have to begin with all the other
00:30:11.320provinces, the federal government, and First Nations. And they're all under a positive legal
00:30:17.380duty to enter into good faith negotiations. So the First Nations may decide, as a group
00:30:23.860of albertan of the three treaties six seven and eight all of the reserves individually may all
00:30:30.740decide they don't want to change they want to keep having this incredible housing and crystal
00:30:37.040clear water delivered by these bureaucrats in ottawa they may just say this is so going so
00:30:42.280awesome we don't want to risk changing it and you know dripping with sarcasm obviously um
00:30:48.180Or they may say, you know what? Hey, Alberta, would you be interested in maybe opening up the treaties? They were kind of negotiated a real long time ago. Times have changed. And we might be interested in a different relationship.
00:31:03.060And one of the things that Jeff Raft talks about is the ability to offer true resource partnership ownership in a way that is just not possible under the current treaties or the control of Ottawa.
00:31:18.160And then so one option would be for the First Nations to say, no, we're just going to carry on.
00:31:22.600You guys, Albertans, go do your thing.
00:31:28.660And remember, there's reserves in Quebec, and I believe Ontario, but for sure Quebec, that straddle, what do they straddle? They straddle Quebec, Canada, and New York State, United States of America, right?
00:31:44.980So there's a good example of how on one side of the reserve, they're flying a Canadian flag, because that's the country that administers the treaty, and on the other side, they're flying the American flag.
00:31:53.280so why are we seeing this this first nations rhetoric already so early in the process why
00:31:59.300are they i don't mean to say this because they blew it what do you mean i i completely completely
00:32:05.880i anticipated this the smarter move would have been for them to lay back and see the timing of
00:32:12.220the chessboard and instead they rushed out and i think there have been concerns documented in
00:32:19.220various investigative reports and royal commissions and so on that have raised concerns about
00:32:25.080corruption in some of the reserves and how the leadership of some of the reserves seem to be
00:32:32.400paid a disproportionate amount of money and so little money seems to get to the first nations
00:32:39.200aboriginal people living on the reserve yeah so if you're some of those people who are getting0.99
00:32:46.920rewarded for your perpetuating this dysfunctional failed relationship with ottawa maybe your first0.95
00:32:55.200knee-jerk reaction is going to be to come out and defend ottawa and create this narrative
00:33:00.220to dissuade people in alberta who believe in separation and independence so i think that's
00:33:06.920what's going on there to some extent some of it could just be a genuine lack of understanding of
00:33:12.120what's proposed some of them just may not actually understand that their treaties are immutable
00:33:16.740and it doesn't matter what flag so i think that's it and then and then so so just to recap a really
00:33:23.900important point here in these negotiations that would come after a successful referendum
00:33:29.340it is the first nations that will decide their future and one option is as i've said and i know
00:33:36.380i'm being repetitive on purpose is status quo nothing changes including the bad housing and
00:33:42.160bad water uh another is a new relationship with alberta or another one is asking alberta to step
00:33:48.840into the shoes of the existing treaties so the treaties remain the same and instead of having
00:33:54.420government officials in ottawa look after your housing you would have government officials in
00:34:00.520edmonton in the new country of alberta looking after your housing and then the third option
00:34:04.760is to enter into some modified new relationship so but the reality the important point is it will
00:34:12.240be the first nations deciding that not albertans and not canadians i find that interesting because
00:34:20.040as you pointed out there is some it's been said there is some corruption out there and many of the
00:34:26.720the leadership groups in some of the reserves, you know, they have been actively lying publicly
00:34:35.240since the public became aware of the Kamloops Residential School graves. I don't want to call
00:34:41.920them graves because apparently it was just some water system that was the septic field that was
00:34:49.080put in the ground 100 years ago. There were no actual bodies found there, and yet they continue
00:34:53.500to be satisfied with lying and calling anybody else who, you know, contradicts them a liar0.96
00:35:02.300and a bigot and a racist and somebody who should be shut down and censored.0.68
00:35:08.640And that, it seems to me that that kind of attitude permeates through some of the First0.92
00:35:15.780Nations, I mean, politically speaking anyway.
00:35:18.120so are they affiliated with any of the and we know that they mostly vote ndp or liberal in
00:35:26.720depending on what kind of election it is whether it's provincial or federal
00:35:29.800do we see any alliance between them and the the federal government or the left wing in this
00:35:39.520country i guess we can only speculate on that yeah i mean i just say this that what's just so
00:35:47.260important to me is they get to decide. I don't think it's proper for me to decide for them.
00:35:54.600And I think it's very important that everyone understand that they will have the choice. They
00:35:59.420will have the choice to keep status quo and keep the treaties administered by the federal government,
00:36:04.160or they may decide and say, sorry, federal government, we'd like to try it with Alberta,
00:36:08.860and then federal government says, okay, we'll step out and Alberta will step into our shoes
00:36:13.540and hopefully do a better job than we have. Sorry, we blew it for so many years.
00:36:17.260Um, and then the third option would be for some or all, uh, to say, you know what, let's try a
00:36:25.200new approach. Uh, we've got to try something new because we've got a chronic poverty and we've got
00:36:30.180a low life expectancy in terms of mortality in our communities and, uh, we've got to do better.
00:36:35.040So, um, but the most important thing is they're in control of those decisions and that's where I
00:36:39.860think they should be. So the campaign I would imagine has already begun and I'm understanding
00:36:45.340that there are many different groups across the province who have already started petitions
00:36:49.600and this is why i ask about a joining together of all of the different groups i think one petition
00:36:55.140would probably be the best thing either that or sign them all right okay so let's talk about the
00:37:02.860details um because it's a great question shadow so it's not any piece of paper so if anybody prints
00:37:10.640off a thing called a petition and trying to get you to sign it you can sign it but that's not the
00:37:15.580legal one it's just like if you're going to a voting booth and some johnny standing out there
00:37:21.040and he's handing out pieces of paper that he made with crayon you wouldn't go great this looks like
00:37:25.100an official ballot to me i guess i better go use it make sure i get my x right right no you want
00:37:30.360that very so it's the same thing elections alberta uh goes through a vetting process there's an
00:37:36.860application process that someone has to an Albertan has to go through when they say I want to start
00:37:42.100a citizen initiative petition it has to meet certain characteristics it gets reviewed and
00:37:47.640vetted to ensure it meets all those legal correct uh criteria then the uh chief electoral officer
00:37:54.500will decide will tell you how many signatures you need to get to meet the threshold what's your
00:37:58.900number uh and we'll tell you when your 120 days is going to start so bill 54 that was introduced
00:38:07.020last week by danielle smith are they expecting that to pass quickly are they going to stay in
00:38:11.900session over the summer to to make that happen or is that something that's down the road a bit
00:38:15.880i'm pretty sure session closes either this week or next week so it'll be law very soon wow okay um
00:38:22.980yeah and and that's not this is it's normal for session the spring lesson it's called spring
00:38:28.900legislative session not summer right so it it it normally wraps around this time or in in mid to
00:38:35.440third week of may well my question was that like i mean because i i know that it takes time to pass
00:38:40.800a bill occasionally you could literally pass if a government really really wanted to they could
00:38:47.960pass a bill for sure in two days because all you got to do is stand up and say bill and i make up
00:38:53.460a number bill 99 is hereby read a first time motion to dispense with reading the bill all in
00:38:59.220favor yeah okay sit down back on the order paper okay or i'd like to move that bill 99 be read a
00:39:06.140second time i'm doing this is how much you'd have to actually do to do it in real time okay like
00:39:11.000uh and then i dispense with reading of the bill yeah okay and they go okay motion to move into
00:39:15.760committee the whole any amendments no and then they invoke closure and then they would go to
00:39:21.080third reading i move that bill the 99b wrote a third time yep all in favor yep passes okay send
00:39:26.720it over to lieutenant governor royal assent signature boom law it doesn't when you got a
00:39:31.560majority you could put something through the house if you really wanted to extremely quickly
00:39:37.020but i don't see any urgency um here and i don't think the government's treating it any different
00:39:44.200than any other bill they've brought in legislation to amend other aspects of elections like we're
00:39:50.720not going to be doing electronic tabulator for all of our votes they're going to be counted by
00:39:55.340humans that can't be recoded and other legislation regarding health care education and so on all
00:40:04.980those bills policing they'll all pass because they have the majority they have the sufficient
00:40:10.040they might the opposition might filibuster and send them spend them into some late nights and
00:40:14.960they'll be bringing in you know skip the dishes at two in the morning as they work the night shift
00:40:20.320in the legislature but but they'll get her done i'm not anticipating any issue there and so so
00:40:26.260what what happens though is back to the the petition the citizen petition is it's a legal
00:40:35.160form of paper specifically designed and approved by elections alberta and then you get volunteers
00:40:43.920that have these official versions and they can go door to door they can go to their local curling
00:40:49.600club or their baseball team or set up in a mall parking lot or put on a town hall meeting and
00:40:56.060have them there and people have to put their name um their address their phone number and
00:41:01.940maybe something else and sign it um so this is not it can't be done electronically this is no
00:41:08.220electronic no okay and at least that's my understanding unless they make a further
00:41:12.820amendment but it stands right now it will be paper ballots with with ink signatures
00:41:17.820then those go to elections alberta and elections alberta will count them and say you know okay
00:41:26.100donald day j trump sherwood park alberta and don't think so right that one's not real um
00:41:33.000santa claus whatever um donald duck is always a big one what's that donald duck is always a big
00:41:40.060one yeah donald duck yeah all the disney characters show up um so then they will
00:41:45.580confirm the number and if the number is confirmed so it used to be 600 000 because we had
00:41:52.240two different standards if albertans wanted legislation or a policy change they had to get
00:41:57.60010 percent of a 10 threshold and then 30 or 20 if it was constitutional and the premier looked at
00:42:07.640how it's done in other jurisdictions uh california and other places and they don't have a differential
00:42:13.120they if there's if it's a citizen initiative it's a citizen initiative so she said it should be the
00:42:17.700same. We shouldn't be making this into a snakes and ladders board. That's mostly snakes and no
00:42:22.560ladders. So she's amended and announced that last week, the day after the election, that instead of
00:42:31.320needing 600,000 signatures on a petition to force the Alberta government to hold an independence
00:42:38.480referendum, rather than needing 600 signatures to force that, we now need about 177,000.
00:42:45.660and we're definitely going to get that so um so once we have that 177 000 confirmed by the chief
00:42:54.300electoral office he then advises the government the government of alberta it then sets the in
00:43:00.240process the actual referendum and the various camps will engage in their education campaigns
00:43:09.340as to what they think whether you should be voting yes for independence and separation
00:43:14.660or whether you should be voting no and that this is where the legacy media is going to show up
00:43:22.260and because at some you know what's it's sort of been the case to now well not sort of it's
00:43:30.380absolutely been the case that the arrogance of the laurentian elite and the ottawa crowd
00:43:36.680that they just and so many of them have frankly and from my experience and some of my interactions
00:43:43.620There's no idea about how diversified Alberta's economy is.
00:52:07.220Think containers from China and Malaysia and Vietnam and Indonesia and all of these places where we get our clothing and all the stuff we buy at a Walmart and a Canadian tire store and a Home Depot.
00:52:22.72075 percent of that container traffic that lands in Vancouver goes east of Alberta goes to
00:52:34.180Manitoba to Ontario to Quebec and points eastward so my question is for Ontario is how are they
00:52:42.720going to get those goods if they think that we're landlocked are we landlocked are they landlocked
00:52:50.940I guess you'd both be landlocked if you're looking at it like that.
00:54:43.740You know, I have real litigation files.
00:54:45.740and very expensive ones, you know, like the highest value file I would do would be a billion
00:54:50.180dollars. And I'm very commonly dealing with ones in hundreds of millions and, and, and a lot that
00:54:55.520are, you know, under a hundred million, you know, but, and they're often multi-party and guess what?
00:55:03.520Everybody hates one another. Nobody wants to do a deal. Everybody's got an agenda. Everybody's
00:55:08.520got an interest. And what ends up happening is we go into negotiations and usually it's fronted
00:55:15.480by the lawyers and i know people hate lawyers that's fine uh some days i hate lawyers too
00:55:20.940especially if i'm having difficult negotiations um and lawyers i know uh but we we work it out
00:55:30.760we build contingencies in we try to figure out ways to address people's concerns and issues
00:55:35.840um and say okay how can we get a win-win here um and and if if you're going to have a lose somewhere
00:55:43.740So if my client's in such a situation where we know we're not going to get the win in a particular area, well, is there somewhere else we can get a win?
00:55:50.860Because this other side really wants this thing that we're now going to lose, this piece of it, because there's always lots of pieces to it.
01:07:23.880Not only anybody's asking me to, obviously, but what I do know is that I can potentially change the opportunities for my kids.
01:07:32.580And I think many Albertans feel that way. And that's why they're now so excited and motivated to support independence.
01:07:41.200So let's go back to the beginning when we talked about 33% would absolutely support Alberta independence. 33% would definitely stay with the federal government. And that's off the middle 33, 34% of people. You're going to have an onslaught on your hands, Keith.
01:07:59.080I mean, when you bring, you know, and this is something that I was talking about last week, and I heard you talking with Ezra about, I think, last week as well. You sent me the clip and I watched it again. But I was talking about the people who were behind the independence movement or the independence movements in Alberta. And there's a lot of money there.
01:08:18.120I know that there's a lot of people who have a lot of individual wealth who are definitely supporting the independence movement.
01:08:26.180And so from that, you would be able to create a massive marketing campaign, a massive advertising campaign, billboards, social media, TV.
01:08:34.020Of course, that's if TV allowed you to advertise on their channels, because we know how that's been going lately.
01:08:40.260but what do you think the i mean every single federal party including the conservatives
01:08:46.080would probably be speaking out saying no no no no you can't leave you've got to stay so the
01:08:51.780liberals conservatives the ndp all of the provincial ndp and lefties would be going against
01:08:58.100you the media would be going against you name calling slander i mean i know that you've been
01:09:02.500through all of that uh with the freedom convoy and several other people as well some high profile
01:09:08.380people can you withstand that in order to win that middle 34 and you don't even really need
01:09:17.300them all you you only need maybe 22 of that 34 to get a yes vote let's get the hell out of here
01:09:24.400is it doable can you make the cool thing is what i'm asking yeah we could do that but but here's
01:09:32.560here's what i've said to a number of the key people involved in the other groups as we've
01:09:37.580had discussions over the last number of weeks i've said and i would hear them some of them say
01:09:43.760things to me and i'm going oh boy you are not seeing what's coming man because you know i got
01:09:48.540the scars from ottawa right yeah yeah so i know i know what it's like and this your first guy through
01:09:54.000the wall always gets bruised right and we're all going through the wall first time here so um what
01:10:00.780i've cautioned them is right now as i mentioned earlier and we've just talked about shadow is
01:10:07.160that ottawa really never took this seriously and to the any extent they talked about it was mocking
01:10:11.640uh now i think they're going to start to take it serious and um because they're going to take it
01:10:18.760serious we're going to suffer bot attacks we're going to see hyper inflated themes and stories
01:10:26.680coming from the legacy media because the legacy media and we've you and i've talked about this
01:10:31.620before because i used to be interviewed a lot on my different high profile cases back in the day
01:10:37.140when the legacy media got zero percent of its funding from ottawa and now gets hundreds and
01:10:43.460hundreds of millions of dollars and a good chunk of every paycheck of every reporter
01:10:48.700um comes from ottawa and they need to pay mortgages too or pay more commonly rent because
01:10:56.620they can't afford to get a house to have a mortgage but um so they're going to serve the
01:11:02.780paymaster and there is going to be propaganda coming at us i've said to these guys like you
01:11:07.700have never experienced before dirty tricks false allegations um everything they they're going to
01:11:16.720see this if they think that this the closer it becomes real the dirtier they're going to get
01:11:24.220and we've seen from their history uh the the liberals that they'll play dirty and you know
01:11:31.600there's another factor that's going to come into this too is the jerry mcguire effect which who's
01:11:38.640coming with me right but what ends up happening is they start to resent you i had this happen when
01:11:46.220i left a big firm and went off to set off my own firm and at first it was because they were everybody
01:11:50.500was mad at the partners they thought the partners weren't treating everybody well and i took a bunch
01:11:53.700of people with me and they're like yeah you're showing it to the man but then they went through
01:11:57.840this psychological transition over a couple of weeks where it's like, well, wait a minute. I
01:12:01.620don't like working here. I'd really like to go, but I've got nowhere to go. Well, maybe this place
01:12:05.600isn't so bad and that Wilson guy is not a good guy, right? So you went from high fives walking0.99
01:12:09.800down the hallway to people not making eye contact or maybe putting their shoulder into you as you
01:12:13.800walk past the photocopier, right? So we're going to have this tension where, you know, Nova Scotia
01:12:19.960gets at least a quarter of its budget from transfer payments from Alberta. Where are those
01:12:26.820billions going to come from they're going to come from the auto workers getting taxed more in
01:12:31.720ontario um so this we're we're going to be it's going to be a hell of a rough ride
01:12:37.940what if this referendum does happen in a year's time and for those of you just joining us right
01:12:47.880now this is keith wilson veteran senior attorney a lot of battle scars a lot of negotiations you
01:12:55.780may remember keith obviously from the freedom convoy um danielle smith said today that if there
01:13:04.160is a citizen initiated petition for separation or independence that the government would honor it
01:13:09.680and so let's just say we do have this this referendum in a year's time but you only get
01:13:15.42045 does the movement die or does it just keep going i don't know you know and one thing we
01:13:24.780haven't talked about yet is, and I'm going to bring it up now, you know, I'm a strategist,
01:13:31.440right? So I game things out. I always try and game things out. I get to fork in the road. Okay.
01:13:35.300This could have, this happens and let's go down there. Okay. Then this could happen. Let's go
01:13:39.060down there. Let's go back up to this fork, go down. You just game out, game out, game out. You
01:13:42.620have to do that in litigation. Nothing can be a surprise. You have to game out all the scenarios
01:13:47.200and whatever strategy you make has to work for every scenario. So I've done that a number of
01:13:53.340times and i i don't necessarily do it on paper because if you see my office i got 12 screens so
01:13:59.500i do everything usually digital but imagine every time i've done it i do the voter overlay of
01:14:04.660education campaign for albertans and where are they at and then i do the carny analysis which
01:14:10.120carny do we have you know do we have the conservative platform stealing carny or the net
01:14:16.180zero gabo on steroids carny that's the guy and then i do then i go to do the third level of the
01:14:23.360chessboard which is trump and i take everything i've done and i sweep it off the table because
01:14:29.860he's so as we all know unpredictable now what we do know is that he's a land developer and land
01:14:38.860developers always like to acquire more land he's talked he brought up the idea of acquiring
01:14:43.980things in canada before anybody else did and he also knows that alberta has the third largest
01:14:52.040reserve of oil and gas in the world he knows even though he won't say anything about it that
01:14:57.600their reservoirs are all going down because they've been drill baby drill doesn't replenish
01:15:04.320doesn't refill overnight right and he needs to re-establish his strategic reserve our strategic
01:15:11.320reserve is 30 30 or 18 000 meters underground you can't even bomb it you just got to pull it out
01:15:16.880with a pump and put it through a pipeline so um and then we have all the other resources that and
01:15:23.580the trade that we do with the u.s and how we're becoming a dominant place for data centers and
01:15:29.020ai because one of the biggest problems with data centers is cooling them which is not a problem
01:15:34.300when it's minus 30 which it is a lot here right and all these other things and we've got the natural
01:15:40.180gas to take natural gas plants and put data centers on the plant because the fuel supplies
01:15:46.240right there you make it a cogen and boom you don't even have a transmission line to worry about
01:15:49.420so there's all kinds of diversification that's been occurring in our economy people think it's
01:15:54.240monolithic it's not and then we have all our agricultural goods and our food and our beef
01:15:58.760and all of these other things so trump um is likely going to want alberta and he's going to
01:16:04.740see a negotiation going on and boy you know that guy loves to show up at a negotiation right
01:16:10.360so he may make some kind of offer to Canada to Alberta that's that that completely upsets
01:16:16.860the balance it could potentially even backfire as we've seen trunk derangement syndrome could
01:16:22.520occur it's interesting of the third of the people and it's probably a higher percentage that I know
01:16:27.200want to separate there's a group within there and I don't know it's not half but it's it's not
01:16:33.340insignificant that are absolutely committed to independence but absolutely opposed to becoming
01:16:39.800the 51st state so it's it's complex you know steve bannon was talking about it steve bannon
01:16:47.340was talking about it last week uh on on a podcast i'm not sure if it was in his war room podcast or
01:16:52.900if he was talking with somebody else about it and he mentioned alberta and saskatchewan by name and
01:16:58.200And that's the first time that I had heard any American media talk about that particular scenario.
01:17:06.920And think about Saskatchewan, though, because Saskatchewan has and a lot of people don't know this, that Saskatchewan has a reasonable amount of oil and gas down in the southeastern part of their province, but not nothing compared to Alberta.
01:23:30.180The American government's done this in other instances
01:23:32.940where there's an upheaval in some countries around the world.
01:23:36.020and then i think the next thing they might do is say well if the referendum is in favor
01:23:41.580of separation international states can give recognition even even where the home country
01:23:49.700doesn't agree think taiwan right so a number of countries including canada have recognized taiwan
01:23:55.960even though according to the chinese constitution taiwan is part of china right so one of the
01:24:03.480options the americans will have is to give international recognition to alberta and they
01:24:10.600can do it in a way that ottawa knows that because they'll do it publicly all over the open airways
01:24:16.760on x or social and alberta will have that advantage going into the negotiation that if0.69
01:24:26.060if everybody wants to play silly bugger and not engage in good faith negotiations you've got trump
01:24:32.320already signaling perhaps that he will give international recognition and section one0.91
01:24:38.620paragraph 155 of the supreme court of canada 1998 reference case expressly says that's another way
01:24:45.160for if there is an impasse in negotiations for a province to succeed and achieve independence
01:24:53.900what do you see is it going to be a smooth i mean let's again let's say this happens
01:25:00.280Would it be a smooth road for Alberta or would there be some hard times for a few months, even a few years at the very beginning when all the transitions underway?
01:25:11.380What kind of government might they form?
01:25:13.840More of a United States style elected head of state situation, elected Senate, all of that stuff.
01:25:21.920Completely and totally remove ourselves from the king, the royal family.
01:25:30.280So, I'm happy about the timeline that the Premier announced today, because those are all proper questions, and I don't know the answers to some of them.
01:25:44.480And we need to bring the people together to have good discussions about what form of government a new independent Alberta would have, what form of laws we would apply, how we would deal with borders and immigration.
01:25:58.860all of these seven or eight things that the federal government does because it's only that many
01:26:04.380and canvas the options and then build a model as to what it would look like
01:26:13.940so that Albertans can make an informed choice that they know what they're leaving
01:26:21.080and know what they're going into and that's going to take a year and we have a year now
01:26:28.200So, um, uh, I think that's, uh, that's good.
01:26:35.440It's just like what happens to the rest of Canada, because when Alberta goes, we know
01:27:25.760Yeah. Well, I do care because I'm human and I'm empathetic and I'm, I do, but I am a little tired
01:27:33.160of the rest of Canada taking Alberta for granted and saying that they don't care. You know, like
01:27:38.960I saw Anita Nan, she went on, it was a couple of days ago when the GM plant at Oshawa announced
01:27:46.540the layoffs because of tariff related issues. And we had hundreds of thousands of people lose
01:27:54.480their job due to these crazy policies eight years ago and they just said suck it up Alberta you know0.98
01:28:01.080you rednecks go get a job in IT was basically the answer we got sucks to be you and so you know0.95
01:28:09.500there is there is a level of anger out here as to how badly we've been treated and unfortunately0.98
01:28:15.740that can cause people not to be as empathetic as otherwise but the rest of Canada is going to have
01:28:20.800to figure it out one thing's for sure they're going to pay a lot more in taxes and their dollar
01:28:26.580is not going to be worth as much because sugar daddy's leaving yeah it just seems like a dream
01:28:35.640here that we're in right now and i imagine that alberta is going to be a pretty raucous place
01:28:40.640over the next year have you looked at the other side because you're a strategist as you were
01:28:45.000pointing out if you looked at the other side's tactics and the things that they might do from
01:28:50.240media or even a political stance to to try and defame you have you looked at the worst of the
01:28:58.620worst things that they could possibly do yeah i mean but you know been there done that i'm still
01:29:06.640here right but is there anything even worse that they could do oh potentially of course but i don't
01:29:12.920i don't worry about that honestly uh but more strategically they're going to be pushing the
01:29:18.880fear button left right and center they're going to be capitalizing on the lack of knowledge and
01:29:23.400and uh understanding that most canadians have about what the role the limited role of the
01:29:29.420federal government they're going to embellish their role and they're going to make people
01:29:32.840think they're going to lose something um uh what's interesting here the liberals trudeau
01:29:38.980was master at this is his best tactic was always division right division division division that's
01:29:44.780why if things were really bad happening he'd suddenly out of the blue announce a 300 million
01:29:51.240dollar new grant program for lbgtq plus in africa right because he knew it would piss off people in
01:29:59.120alberta and on the right right just a pure distraction move well um that won't work this
01:30:06.280time it will not work because um they don't control this albertans do albertans control
01:30:14.800what their future is going to be now um uh and just to pause for a minute i haven't said this
01:30:22.500and i should we're our base starting point is highly unusual um i started researching to find
01:30:29.940another democracy where the courts their highest court and their federal government had put in a
01:30:36.940process for a region a state or a province to leave to declare independence and there isn't
01:30:43.860one in the commonwealth right so the fact that alberta or so that canada has had the supreme
01:30:50.260court of canada rule and lay out a process for a province to separate and declare independence
01:30:57.740and the federal government has codified that decision and given it additional detail through
01:31:03.940the federal clarity act is rare it's very very rare well why is it that bc can't do this right
01:31:11.700now or perhaps manitoba well you don't have the same and i don't know the details of their laws
01:31:17.740but i know alberta's gone further than any other province is we now have in alberta and have had
01:31:23.840was initially brought in under kenny and now improved which we've talked about by premier
01:31:28.100smith she announced it a week ago out the day after the elect federal election which is for
01:31:33.120citizens to get together in sufficient number to compel the provincial government to actually
01:31:38.880hold a referendum it almost seemed like she was rooting for that without rooting for it i mean
01:31:44.560her wording was genius i thought well and just let me finish the the illuminating the picture
01:31:51.540in the past and so then we have the province and we've had this on the books for a decade or more
01:31:56.880perhaps longer we've had our referendum legislation that's that said at any time our provincial
01:32:03.680cabinet can announce it's holding a referendum that's what kenny did with the equalization
01:32:08.680so we have all of the mechanisms in place now and we have the political will from the grassroots
01:32:16.380recruits and the resources and the capability, despite the fact there's 13 groups.
01:32:23.600As I said, back from my experience in Ottawa, they're all going in the same direction because
01:32:27.680they know deep inside why they're doing it. So this is very, very real. This is very unusual.
01:32:35.480It's not normal for a nation state, a democracy, particularly Commonwealth country,
01:32:41.580to have a mechanism for a province or a region or a state to legally leave we have that and we have
01:32:51.020the political conditions in canada alone i think to make it a real thing i realize it's a difficult
01:32:56.480challenge and there's a lot of votes that will have to be obtained on referendum day and then
01:33:01.940we have the wild card of a suitor by the name of donald day trump who really wants us and i think
01:33:10.880wants Saskatchewan to. So this is going to be a fascinating time in history, in Canadian history
01:33:19.000for sure, as to what unfolds. When you look at Trump's term, you look at Danielle Smith's term,
01:33:28.240you know, you pick those as ed dates, 29, 27, and then 2026 for the referendum. It's all a viable
01:33:40.640timeline my biggest fear was that the referendum would be too soon that we wouldn't have an
01:33:45.020opportunity to delve into the issues and help people understand how to approach them like this
01:33:49.440treaty issue um and that that was answered today by the premier speech so what happens if mark
01:33:57.700carney makes a deal and he capitulates to all of daniel smith's demands and she's got a lot of them
01:34:04.680she she outlined some of them today in her address to albertans but there was a long list just last
01:34:10.460week or the week before uh and i have them here can i read i have the bullet short form can i
01:34:15.880read them off absolutely okay so uh pursuing a new alberta accord within canada demanding
01:34:24.460guaranteed port access for alberta energy and resources uh so that gets means getting rid of
01:34:31.100the no more or the tanker ban on the west coast uh a repeal of the harmful federal laws like c69
01:34:38.500and the admissions cap so there's two things there the emissions cap is under the canadian
01:34:43.600environmental uh protection act and it's essentially if you read it and i've studied it
01:34:49.500it's a production cap it's just like they use the word emissions but they also use the word
01:34:54.940production even more and you game it out you go this is a production cap they want oil stuck in
01:34:59.600the ground um and then 69 is not just doesn't stop pipelines that's what it's called for ease
01:35:07.120of reference. It's the Canadian Environmental Impact Assessment Act. And it applies to every
01:35:15.020major project. It applies to expanding a port facility. It applies to a coal mine. It applies
01:35:21.080to a forgery project. It's a socialist dream. You can't get through it. One of the things you have
01:35:32.840to do under this act if you're a proponent if you're a mining company a forestry company
01:35:37.260a pipeline company whatever you have to demonstrate the impact of your proposed project
01:35:45.420quote on the intersection of sex gender and other identifiable oppressive characteristics
01:35:51.440no one can agree on what the word intersection means there we know it's not a thing with traffic
01:35:56.140lights and so keeps all the opponents have to say is you haven't done it and then so all the
01:36:02.600companies have said, well, we're either going to build a new mine in northern Manitoba, or we're
01:36:08.960going to build a new mine in Brazil. It's decision day for this international mining company. And
01:36:14.780they go, well, sorry, Canada, we're not coming to you with our $3 billion investment. We're going to
01:36:21.520Brazil because we can't figure out what this means. And that's what we've seen. We've seen
01:36:25.680capital flight and the loss of projects in you know it's just stunning the number so that's what
01:36:33.560c69 is about is not just pipelines it's any significant industrial economic activity requires
01:36:41.000a federal environmental impact assessment and it requires to you to be measured against a standard
01:36:47.580that no one can define and anybody can say you failed to meet next one she has on the list here
01:36:53.700Requiring Albertans consent for any export restrictions, Hunter resources.0.99
01:36:58.640So if Carney's thinking he's going to retaliate against Trump, because remember, he said in the election campaign, and I was stunned at the stupidity of his words.0.99
01:37:08.260And he said it again in his acceptance speech.0.99
01:39:34.960There's the treaties are not under threat. There's nothing to defend. Everybody who understands what's going on is saying, no, no, we'll honor the treaties. But First Nations should have choices. And so and she's also talked in her speech about the federal government dropping the requirement for net zero electricity production.
01:39:57.980the transition to do that in alberta will be hundreds of billions of dollars even if we had
01:40:04.680that laying around that money it doesn't matter because there's not enough transformers and
01:40:11.600conductors and components for electrical substation that could be produced around the
01:40:17.500world to meet that target it's an absolutely fantastical fantasy target and what kind of
01:40:24.180energy would it be would it be solar would it be wind well it'd be solar and wind and they want us
01:40:29.220to get off our natural gas we phased out our coal really probably too quickly in my view
01:40:33.880um and we switched our coal plants to natural gas plants um but you know i i have uh i follow
01:40:41.440this person and it's real real-time energy thing on on twitter so every hour you get this report
01:40:46.440and it'll say when it's really cold or really hot it'll go like 98 percent or 90 percent of our
01:40:52.300electricity is being produced by something other than wind or solar because when it's really cold
01:40:58.520the windmills can't function they'll break the hydraulics are frozen um and the solar panels are
01:41:04.740covered in snow and usually for that kind of temperature means the sun's not out and besides
01:41:08.980at that time of the year you know we're dark most of the time we just get sun from 9 30 till three
01:41:14.360in the afternoon kind of and then in the summer when it's really hot and everybody's air
01:41:18.800conditionings are going our air conditioning units are on um solar panels their efficiency drops
01:41:25.740radically as the temperature goes up and the wind when it's really hot it tends not to be windy
01:41:31.640so i've my slogan is renewables fail when you need them most renewables fail when you need them most
01:41:38.640and it's not acceptable to say to albertans look we realize that the renewables aren't going to
01:41:44.680work for the next four days we're going to be in a cold snap it's going to be from minus 38 to minus
01:41:50.10045 by the end of day four we're all dead or most people are dead and that's not an exaggeration
01:41:56.400right like what are you going to do if you don't have a wood-burning stove everything's going to
01:42:01.320freeze so this is just irresponsibility in the extreme so that was the another thing and then
01:42:06.660get rid of this uh this mandate that they impose that a certain all the vehicles have to be electric
01:42:12.440vehicles by a certain date 2035 and the final one that i can recall is the the legislation they
01:42:19.660brought in through the amendments to the competition act that say that if you if you
01:42:25.660misrepresent your anticipated environmental performance um an environmental group can
01:42:33.840come after you and the penalty is a percentage of your global profits from the previous year
01:42:41.820so you're a mining company and you know 20 of your business is in canada you have a decision
01:42:47.400to expand you've got enough money to build two more mines and you got four countries to build
01:42:52.600them in and you layer all these things up that's why there's no investment happening in canada and
01:42:57.420it's going to take a long time to turn it around you know mark carney has lived for these objectives
01:43:03.060over the course of the last 10 to 15 years he was the un special uh climate change envoy uh his book
01:43:11.260is values. It's all about net zero. It's all about ESG, forcing people, forcing large companies
01:43:20.360into situations where if they don't comply with all of these regulations that you've just talked
01:43:25.380about, they will be climate roadkill, quote unquote. That is what Mark Carney said. So there
01:43:30.660is absolutely no chance of capitulation. I believe that Danielle Smith knows that. And I truly get
01:43:37.820the sense that even though she says and i guess she's saying this simply for media purposes and
01:43:43.140she doesn't want to scare 70 of the province at this stage i believe she is all for independence
01:43:48.600and would be a great person to lead that charge moving forward but she's setting the stage in
01:43:54.560such a way that she knows that carney's never going to play ball with what she's with what
01:44:00.520she's saying she knows that well i i haven't asked her the question personally but i have
01:44:07.640observed her speak um and i think i think if she could choose an outcome she would choose one where
01:44:18.260canada remains united alberta remains part of canada but we have fundamental structure reform
01:44:24.660so that um when the polls close in ontario albertans aren't wasting their time going to
01:44:33.860the polling station because that's the reality until you know uh you know 416 and 613 or whatever
01:44:40.460the area codes are decides the election um and um so that would be one thing and that that that
01:44:48.740would require a renegotiation of confederation in terms of our structures and our institutions
01:44:54.560and maybe having a real senate as opposed to a patronage pit which that's objectively all it is
01:45:01.300right uh by any honest assessment you know what i gotta when you go to talk about the senate
01:45:09.060there's this group called the independent senators group how on earth can you be independent and be
01:45:14.900in a group it doesn't make any sense to me well just research how many bills the senate has turned
01:45:25.180down yeah and you'll find that it's like three half bills they didn't really turn them down
01:45:30.280they just caused a delay in them yeah right uh so it's a minor amendment yeah yeah and it was
01:45:35.620never intended that way when our country was formed the senate was to be the equalizer
01:45:41.140recognizing that uh the house of commons would be driven by population and the senate would be
01:45:48.960represented by region to create a balance right and that balance doesn't exist because our senate's
01:45:55.500never functioned other than a patronage pit and a rubber stamp. So my assessment of where she's at
01:46:04.080is she's going to do everything she can to try and keep Canada together, but get a better deal
01:46:11.920for Alberta, get the economic knee off our neck by these ideological extremists, hopefully get
01:46:20.900them to stop being reckless with our credit card um and buying things we don't want and making us
01:46:26.900pay for them and and i but she's also she's also believed fundamentally in democracy and i know
01:46:35.040that for certain and so if it's the case that the majority of albertans decide that they do want to
01:46:44.180leave Canada. She's indicated she will respect that. But I don't think this is a gimmick
01:46:53.400to try to achieve independence. I think her personal view is she'd like to see Canada stay
01:47:01.060together, but she also doesn't see it as her job to be the person who determines that. It should
01:47:09.400be the people. Last thing, because I've had you almost two hours here and it was only supposed
01:47:14.760to be 90 minutes. And I'm thinking that you're going to be the guy who brings all of the,
01:47:22.020the differing groups together in one room and you're going to work it out and come up with
01:47:28.180one objective. And, uh, I wish you all the best with that. And you don't have to answer this,
01:47:35.520but i'm going to ask you anyway where do you come down on all of this what's your position
01:47:41.040um my position is that when you look at the size of most countries around the world
01:47:47.640uh when you look at the nature of cultures in countries that are successful i really do believe
01:47:55.940canada might be too big to be a viable country and that it might make a lot more sense for us
01:48:03.220to have a number of smaller countries um and i do believe if i only had one choice i would pick
01:48:12.980alberta independence without a doubt having studied it i've got a political science degree
01:48:18.340where i studied uh alberta politics in particular canadian history uh in particular as to how our
01:48:24.580country formed and of course i've been a litigator and i've been on the front end of some historic
01:48:29.160moments um unfortunately i've come to the conclusion that the uh best thing and i think
01:48:35.460even it's the best for the other parts of country because they got to clean up their act
01:48:38.420they got to get off the couch and stop relying on these checks from alberta
01:48:42.140and they've got to diversify their economies too uh and stop being so reliant on government
01:48:47.940because that just costs money okay you know what i one more thing i'm sorry but you're
01:48:54.200constitutional guy and you would probably have the answer to this. Saskatchewan, we've talked
01:48:59.980about as well. And again, you guys, I'm going to have Nadine Ness from Unified Grassroots on
01:49:03.620Thursday night. She's going to talk about the petition that she started in Saskatchewan.
01:49:08.500But there are other regions of the country who think, you know, this is a really good idea. Do
01:49:15.000I have to move all the way to Alberta or Saskatchewan or can I just stay where I am? For
01:49:18.900example, border municipalities in British Columbia and Manitoba. I mean, when you look at Manitoba,
01:49:25.300you see one large city and then the rest. And the population is 1.5 million in Manitoba,
01:49:33.2401 million of which is in the Winnipeg capital region. The rest of the people, they don't want1.00
01:49:38.800to be Manitobans, especially the ones who live along the Saskatchewan border. Is there any way1.00
01:49:43.980that a municipality can vote for independence from the province that they're in is have you
01:49:51.460ever heard of anything like that before not under our current laws and our current constitution the
01:49:57.160way it's set up is that um uh it's determined by a province the supreme court of canada ruled
01:50:03.340that a province can hold a province-wide referendum by the voters of the province
01:50:11.140so no i mean it's anything's possible in terms of what could be in the future but as under our
01:50:16.760current legal rules it's only a province that could vote to become independent not a municipality
01:50:23.620thank you keith for spending all of this time with us tonight giving us this valuable insight
01:50:27.900and uh into the possibilities of what may yet come and let's stay in touch because i want to
01:50:33.900keep on top of this for the next while i want to see what happens out there and and you know
01:50:37.780judging from the amount of people at the crowd at the rally and in edmonton this week it looks like
01:50:42.980a good start agreed thank you very much okay thank you we'll talk to you again keith wilson
01:50:50.460everybody thank uh thanks keith for coming on tonight we're going to come back with the extension