00:10:17.320Have you been a conspiracy theorist for some time,
00:10:20.840or is this just a recent thing for you?
00:10:23.820Well, I wouldn't say I, I mean, the book that I wrote about,
00:10:29.780I mean, first of all, I'm not a journalist.
00:10:33.820I mean, I am writing what journalists should be doing these days,
00:10:37.260But I, you know, I mean, when it comes to September 11th, I kind of was busy with my life.
00:10:45.700I got some headlines and I carried on with my life.
00:10:48.940And in 2007, I was at an airport and a new book was out in the airport bookstore called Wake Up Call, The Political Education of a 9-11 Widow, written by Kristen Breitweiser, whose husband, Ron, had died in the South Tower.
00:11:04.060And she told the story about how if it hadn't been for the victims of the families of September 11th, there would never really have been any investigation.
00:11:13.740You know, the president really didn't want one. He wanted things to sort of be behind closed doors.
00:11:19.720And so it was only the families going to Washington, D.C., having rallies and knocking on the doors of all the members of Congress and Senate that resulted in in an investigation.
00:11:28.620And so when I read her book, I found it very, I mean, troubling.
00:11:34.720I mean, most of the people who were on the Family Steering Committee for the 9-11 Independent Commission, the dozen family members who represented tens of thousands of families, the majority of those people voted for the president.
00:11:46.420So this was not a bunch of Democrats that had it out for President Bush.
00:11:49.700They just wanted him to have an investigation and make the nation safe.
00:11:54.740Right. You know, so but but as I as I dig into what happened in the in the 9-11 commission, it really becomes a story where, I mean, Lee Hamilton's the vice chair.
00:12:07.240He didn't want any public hearings at all. So and so on.
00:12:12.020So there was a lot of things that just weren't going the way the families thought.
00:12:15.680And so it's it's more a story of how not to run an investigation.
00:12:19.820and and I leave it to the reader to make up their own mind of what they of what they think but it's
00:12:25.860uh I mean it's interesting you know when you talk about 9-11 and especially over the past
00:12:32.080few years people have been questioning uh things that we've been told even going back to the moon
00:12:37.120landing right I mean I had a conversation with a couple of guys in a restaurant the other day
00:12:41.260about the moon landing and we all take these things as fact over time if something has been
00:12:47.720repeated enough times over and over and over again it's taken as fact eventually it just becomes that
00:12:53.220way in our nomenclature and you go back and you question 9-11 have you been called names have you
00:13:00.520been threatened in any way because of the questions that you've asked and all you've done is ask
00:13:06.200questions really as you point out you leave it up to the reader to decide and and what i did was i
00:13:12.220i mean there were a lot of books that are out there asking all kinds of questions that are part
00:13:16.980of the big catchment of the quote 9-11 truth movement but what i did is i said well let's
00:13:22.880look at the questions that the families handed to the 9-11 commission to ask and when the families
00:13:29.700handed the questions that they wanted investigated the 9-11 commissioners said to the press thank you
00:13:35.940families very much for these excellent questions and then when the whole thing was over they found
00:13:41.100that the 9-11 Commission really only investigated seriously 9% of all the questions and left 70%
00:13:48.360untouched and, you know, touched a few others very, very briefly. I mean, I'll give you one
00:13:54.020example of the very briefly. Donald Rumsfeld was asked, Mr. Rumsfeld, did you order planes to be
00:14:00.520scrambled to defend the Pentagon? And he repeated the question back, looked at the wallpaper and
00:14:06.680the drapes and the ceiling lights and then tom keen banged the gavel and said time's up next
00:14:12.320question you know that sounds a lot like in the house of commons here in canada you know where
00:14:22.960i'm going with this right i mean when that mp and i forget his name now i think he was from
00:14:27.420windsor conservative mp gets up now this is all via zoom because they weren't attending house of
00:14:35.060commons for you guys watching right now they weren't attending house of commons it was all
00:14:38.360remote we were in the middle of a pandemic and the question asked to the speaker of the house or
00:14:44.460to the opposition through the speaker of the house was so klaus schwab claims that he has
00:14:50.840compromised half of our cabinet i'm sorry but the audio is bad we can't really hear your question
00:14:56.940and the question never did get answered it just laid there right that's that's just what they do
00:15:06.760And what people, I mean, in the case of the families who lost loved ones, I mean, they just wanted a proper investigation, which they felt they never got.
00:15:15.400Regardless of what they think about what happened, they weren't satisfied.
00:15:21.720And so when you end up with people who have serious questions about something like, well, is it true that the World Economic Forum has half the Liberal cabinet in the bag?
00:15:34.600That question should be dealt with and not have political theater saying, oh, we've got technical problems.
00:15:41.980Yeah, or it should be answered without somebody being called a conspiracy theorist, right?
00:15:47.100I mean, just the way they talk down to us is absolutely stunning.
00:16:43.200We watch the way reporters make comments on the side, and then the public learns that, oh, the way to deal with somebody's different opinion is to mock them or derive them or ignore them.
00:16:57.560Where do you think that comes from? Is that a societal issue that's just cropped up in the last couple of years, or has that been bubbling for a while?
00:17:03.960My philosophy on this is once we got rid of bullying, then the bullying really started.
00:17:11.080isn't it ironic because i have i have friends who are public school teachers that would talk about
00:17:17.200how carefully they would explain bullying to all the students and make sure we're all
00:17:22.300everybody in the public school or or private school catholic school is on the lookout for
00:17:28.000bullying and yet uh all of a sudden cropping up in in workplaces and in in society at large
00:17:35.240people are being bullied if they don't have a proper point of view and so yeah it's it's it's
00:17:43.140uh it's the the disconnect is is is frustrating and and and crazy making let me ask you this
00:17:50.320going back to 9-11 for just one second here um aside from all the blame the finger pointing
00:17:58.200the theories about what really may have happened what did the government wind up getting out of
00:18:05.080this out of out of the 9-11 commission itself uh just out of 9-11 i mean they obviously
00:18:13.520strengthened regulations in airports and they passed new laws they developed a new uh new
00:18:20.600department homeland security all of that happened through 9-11 and was that one step further towards
00:18:28.180totalitarianism do you think well it's certainly uh certainly with surveillance uh uh the the the
00:18:37.440the tsa in america ended up with lists of uh as naomi wolf talks about in her book the end of
00:18:45.020america uh you know by the mid-2000s the tsa had lists of tens of thousands of academics
00:18:54.380and journalists who had criticized the White House,
00:18:59.240who are now targeted for being detained.
00:19:05.520You know, maybe, you know, normally if someone's being asked a few questions,
00:19:11.600they're in and out and they get on their flight.
00:19:14.620But this would be a real inconvenience.
00:19:17.100And driving home the message that we don't like the kind of things
00:19:20.880that you're, the kind of questions you're asking at the university
00:19:23.660or the kind of things you're saying in your print or online or radio show.
00:19:30.740So, yeah, so there were things like that that were happening.
00:19:34.280And certainly, yeah, so the outcome of what happened after September 11th with the war on terror,
00:19:44.180certainly there was a war for 20 years in Afghanistan, a war in Iraq, allegedly weapons of mass destruction and on and on.
00:19:51.800And so it's and so it's it certainly has opened up a whole new world for Americans, too.
00:20:00.560And I don't think that many Americans would say today that they feel safer as a result of all that's happened since then.
00:20:08.600No kidding. And, you know, the military industrial complex gets fed for 20 years and then they didn't.
00:20:15.460And because they had to pull out and left all that military equipment behind a couple of years ago.
00:20:19.680so they have to come up with a new threat.
00:20:21.380Well, you've got China, you've got Ukraine, Russia, sorry, they're the big threat,
00:20:25.040and Ukraine is somehow our ally and all of that stuff.
00:20:27.980But going back to 9-11, you know, people were gripped with fear.
00:20:32.760And to me, that was the United States possibly invoking this external threat,
00:20:39.580which is step one in Naomi Wolf's book.
00:20:43.720And could it have been then that they were trying to start this new totalitarian dictatorship
00:20:49.600movement and it got somehow throttled or or was that something else do you think
00:20:55.640you know the i mean i would say that that the that that their families you know um families who
00:21:04.920who uh have always been satisfied with the government's explanation of what happened
00:21:09.740and then um i would say many families and a smaller group think that there are people who
00:21:18.640clearly sat on their hands and let and let things move forward to a place you know like the
00:21:25.880the um the inexplicable um granting of of expedited visas to uh hijackers uh coming from
00:21:37.160Saudi Arabia uh who are filling out their visa forms um a year you were born um 1878
00:21:44.960The place you'll be staying where you go to America? No. And all kinds of, you know, filling out incomplete forms all over the place. And normally these things would be flagged, but somehow they were given the green light to go ahead and go to the States.
00:22:01.640So there's a lot of strange things that Laurie Van Auken, whose husband, Kenneth Van Auken, died in the North Tower. And she says that there's so many myriad oddities, you know, it doesn't make sense.
00:22:13.340it didn't seem to follow through with that one so maybe that was designed for something else like
00:22:19.360feeding the military industrial complex but this latest threat seems to be following the playbook
00:22:25.820that naomi wolf laid out in 20 or sorry 2007 in her book and you highlight this in this fantastic
00:22:33.300essay and ray let me just tell you when this came out a couple of weeks ago i was very excited
00:22:37.920because not that I'm excited that we're now a dictatorship but I was excited because I talked
00:22:44.820about this book a couple of years ago on this show and I encouraged people to go read it and
00:22:49.840it just seemed like a textbook a how-to textbook to become a dictatorship and nobody really was
00:22:57.880paying any attention to it and so you did and you wrote this fantastic essay on all of these 10
00:23:04.900steps and how they've all been filled out starting with step one invoke an internal or external
00:23:10.000threat which has happened so what i'd like to do if you don't mind is go through all of these steps
00:23:16.200and tell us please how this has happened in the last few years sure let me let me say as as a
00:23:24.320preface i didn't go into this much in the article but uh now my phrasing the shift from democracy
00:23:32.000to totalitarian behavior in the pandemic era is to qualify in this way.
00:23:38.340I mean, a totalitarian state strictly is where you have a dictator.
00:23:43.640There's no opposition parties in parliament.
00:23:45.540There's just the governing party that meets.
00:23:49.400And, you know, there's no press except for the government press
00:23:55.400I mean, we're able to have this conversation today
00:23:58.260because we don't live in Stalin's Russia or whatever.
00:24:01.040But we have almost what I would call, I mean, I talked about an illiberal democracy or an inverted kind of totalitarianism where you have the window dressing of democracy, but the historic institutions and practices that we expect from those institutions in terms of how you run the government or how you run the College of Physicians and Surgeons or how any number of organizations across the country.
00:24:31.040you're supposed to run, unions and so on, defending their employees when there's pandemic
00:24:37.420questions around, do I have to take the vaccine, for example, all just seem to fold their cards.
00:24:43.060And so this kind of inverted totalitarianism where we have the window dressing, I mean,
00:24:47.200we're looking forward to a 2025 election, whatever we think of it. We're not, I mean,
00:24:52.800most people that I talk to aren't afraid there won't be one. But still, we have a lot of warning
00:24:57.420signs as we go through this that the things are not well and we need to turn the ship around
00:25:02.500interesting uh that you say that because as as you're listing all of these agencies or these
00:25:08.880institutions across our country that seem to just bend the knee during the pandemic um i can't think
00:25:16.360of one real institution including the political opposition party in this country who stood up
00:25:24.860against any of the tyranny and that's exactly what this was i mean when you invoke the emergencies
00:25:30.600act and i'm not even talking about federally just provincially all the provinces invoke their
00:25:35.160emergencies to make it so they could do whatever they wanted to us you stay inside you wear that
00:25:40.700mask you take that shot or this this this and this will happen to you you won't be a member
00:25:45.060of society anymore i mean people just readily accepted this and i thought wow how can that be
00:25:53.760it i i think a lot of it is is born on uh what people remember uh i have expected and counted on
00:26:04.840uh institutions being in the past so for example the cbc which you know i mean decades ago i used
00:26:13.060to give sometimes in the 90s you know money to friends of the cbc you know whatever but today i
00:26:19.500wouldn't but but but but there was this you know i mean i would i would watch foster hewitt on on
00:26:24.340hockey night in canada and i would you know listen to uh peter mansbridge or whoever nold and nash
00:26:29.900before them and and and i would i can remember uh watching the news in canada i would listen to
00:26:37.320news stations that i get out in vancouver down in seattle and i was quite grateful for the
00:26:42.860mainstream media as it was expressing itself in the 60s 70s and 80s now much has happened since
00:26:48.560then especially in the last five or ten years that that there's a real a real change as we'll
00:26:54.060talk about but but i think part partly uh rodney palmer when he testified at the national citizens
00:27:00.860inquiry was discussing how he felt that the cbc was sort of cash using its chips of of uh kind of
00:27:09.520public esteem building up since 1937 and and making a bet as did the government in ottawa
00:27:16.920that people will believe what they tell us.
00:27:22.760Given our long track record of being trustworthy,
00:27:27.740even if we tell flat-out lies about there being Nazis
00:27:32.500running around all over Parliament Hill,
00:27:35.080they'll believe us because we're the CBC
00:27:48.900I was talking about this last week, and I said, just because they've got that logo up in the corner.
00:27:55.160I mean, you can take a well-established left-wing corporate media journalist or talking head, whatever it happens to be, whatever he or she happens to be, and put them on an independent show like mine.
00:28:06.700And for some reason, people will go, oh, he's got a show, and then they just kind of flick past it.
00:28:11.980And they go right back to the brand that this guy just got fired from.
00:28:16.920What is that? I don't quite understand it. Are they loyal to the brand like Coca-Cola, CBC, CTV, or is it the person who was giving them the information?
00:28:30.260i i think i think that i think that what what's happened is i mean all in especially in the last
00:28:38.880four years is really like it's almost like a psychological um operation or attack on on on
00:28:47.000citizens uh when when there is a threat uh external and and internal as we'll discuss
00:28:54.520then people are in a state of it's like a the state of tension a state of anxiety a state of
00:29:02.600like am i oh my god if i get covid19 am i going to end up on a ventilator and die and i mean all
00:29:08.300of this kind of anxiety and so all of that what we know about about people's emotional states is
00:29:14.640once a person's at a state of heightened anxiety which is sustained for weeks months even years i
00:29:20.320And I see people, even today, I've seen people out in the streets near where I live in Vancouver, wearing masks, walking a dog by themselves.
00:29:31.180So what's happening inside of, you know, people who feel they need to do that for their protection?
00:29:39.660um so it's it's uh i mean i i know people who've uh you know who've uh i mean i live in vancouver
00:29:47.700and so jody wilson raybold uh former attorney general uh ran for the liberal party and then
00:29:54.500she didn't then she ran successfully as independent called out on the snc lavaland
00:29:59.580about what trudeau was doing and and talked about how she met with him at i think the pan pacific
00:30:05.000hotel uh brought in let and said you know he wanted me to lie and and so and i know people
00:30:11.840who who campaigned for jody wilson raybold and and you know wrote me into helping even though
00:30:17.620it's not my writing and and trying to help you know you know raise some money for her and her
00:30:22.020independent run in in in 2019 but they now will probably be voting for justin trudeau and and
00:30:30.160And so it's very complex what people go back to.
00:30:35.320It's partly, I think, that they've been told everything the way it is.
00:30:40.900You know, they're up to their sixth or seventh boosters now.
00:30:44.620And to believe that they've been lied to, that's a huge thing.
00:30:49.360If you've been lied to and then you think you've been taken or you've been had or you've been gullible,
00:30:55.220that's also a bit of a an inner journey person has to do to say i was lied to now it's easier
00:31:02.060if you were lied to by the party that you didn't vote for but if it's right you know it's your own
00:31:07.780party and you give a lot of money to it it's harder yeah well they they all lied to us back
00:31:13.300then i mean every single one of them they were a block of liars you know they all agreed vaccines
00:31:19.340you're not getting the vaccines fast enough i recall pierre pauliev saying so step one in this
00:31:24.680process that naomi lays out in her book is to establish that internal threat or the external
00:31:30.180threat or both which was for us a germ a virus right yeah yeah and it seemed really scary because
00:31:39.380now now also i have to be honest i haven't had a tv since the gulf war back in the persian gulf
00:31:46.880war in 1990 so i get my news by reading and and then i also listen to shows like yours which is
00:31:55.200visual but but it's different and i i sometimes think well what if what if i had been going through
00:32:01.080early 2020 watching all the stories of you know people being on ventilators and and on all the
00:32:08.860all the tents in in in central park in new york city and all of that maybe i would have gotten
00:32:14.580to a place of heightened anxiety but i i didn't i was more detached from it but yeah so we had
00:32:20.240the virus that came uh you know from china and uh and and all of a sudden we're all in lockdown
00:32:27.160and being doing social distancing and two weeks to flatten the curve and all of that stuff
00:32:33.000and uh and then suddenly uh well you know the masks and and the and then the vaccines and then
00:32:41.140the and the vaccines but oh you all have you just it's just your option then all of a sudden
00:32:45.620in in the late summer of 2021 this is mandatory or or or you'll suffer severe consequences like
00:32:54.000losing your job if you don't get the vaccine but you won't be able to go to the gym and so on and
00:32:58.800so forth so uh or if you or we'll close down your gym by the way as well yeah we'll keep the strip
00:33:04.500clubs open though you can still buy cigarettes and booze but you can't go and buy food from the
00:33:08.820health food store because they're non-essential so that was establishing the fear was step one
00:33:13.740then step two she writes is to establish secret prisons so when i was reading your essay i went
00:33:20.560okay ray tell me where the secret prisons were and i we knew about the the hotels where people
00:33:27.360had to check in but those weren't secret no so when i read it i went oh yeah right so so okay
00:33:36.000So the good news is not every one of the majority, but not every single one of the 10 boxes tick off in terms of where we are.
00:33:44.620Now, the caveat is if there are secret prisons, it's possible that we don't know about them because they're secret.
00:33:50.980But I don't I don't nobody's nobody's told me that they think that there are secret prisons like Guantanamo or or anything that they were doing in Indonesia.
00:34:00.620but do you remember going let's go back three years i remember getting getting sent photos
00:34:06.840all the time people driving in remote areas of whatever province they live in you know they're
00:34:11.520on vacation and they they're on this highway eight somewhere up in northern british columbia
00:34:16.720or alberta or wherever and they take a photo of the forest or the mountains or the lake and there
00:34:23.400there was this weird looking building and i actually had an investigator go and check out
00:34:28.800an old hydro station here in manitoba because it seemed like it was it was shut down for years and
00:34:34.800it seemed like people were going back to it and certain the doors only opened one way and they
00:34:40.240were putting up barbed wire and i went what is this this is crazy are they actually doing this
00:34:46.700like covid detention camps we don't know yeah i mean ran was it randy hillier who who was uh
00:34:55.100raising questions about, about camps for, for the unvaccinated, which would be a different
00:35:03.140step or, or further step from just having people go into quarantine hotels, which we know the
00:35:10.660locations of. So yeah, so, I mean, it's, it's what I would say as far as the secret prisons go
00:35:18.740is that knowing that this is one of the steps that past dictatorships have used or
00:35:24.540despotic leaders have done used to weaken you know a democracy and move it into this
00:35:31.100autocratic totalitarian trajectory we need to you know ask you know say well you know now i would
00:35:38.120say it's not it wouldn't be out of the question this this is something that could happen with
00:35:43.200the wrong leader uh you know in in government yeah you know it's amazing how they've managed
00:35:51.480to subvert our institutions and our social contract even inside of government there were
00:35:58.500certain things you just never did as a parliamentarian i lived in ottawa for a couple
00:36:04.020of years i'm going to say 15 years ago and i knew a bunch of guys ray who who were friends
00:36:11.340or actually worked for the mps and they said that these mps have got there's certain things
00:36:16.560lines they will not cross right um because they they wanted to avoid scandal so what was the
00:36:24.200largest scandal that stephen harper had the senate thing i mean that wasn't even really a scandal
00:36:30.600and then the only other thing i can think of would have been the orange juice that bevota had for
00:36:36.300sixteen dollars that was that was so expensive
00:36:39.280what other scandal was there in the harper government now you've got trudeau scandal
00:36:49.240after scandal after scandal after scandal after scandal and nobody bats an eye and they're seeing
00:36:54.240this they're going well we can get away with whatever we want to get away with so let's get
00:36:57.860away with it everything has been compromised it seems like yeah yeah so so so i think that the
00:37:04.660The secret prisons is there as a thing to watch, to ask the question, well, would we go that far in Canada?
00:37:22.120Okay, so I would say, based on what Naomi Wolf describes as paramilitary force, no, we haven't got to that place.
00:37:31.020Now, she describes she's describing the unaccountable gangs of thugs like under Mussolini or Hitler or, you know, other where you just have a bunch of rowdies, like 50 or 100 people that are walking down the main street of your town, threatening shopkeepers, looting, beating people up.
00:37:52.840And the police maybe are watching all of this and doing nothing.
00:37:56.920now um that a step a step away from that is where you end up doing things like having your police
00:38:05.940force no longer be the kind of police force where citizens feel like they can go walk up to a police
00:38:11.320officer and say hey uh how are you doing today or you know a friendly banter now now you have
00:38:17.740more militarized police forces where where you just know that uh with this person full of their
00:38:24.120body armor and everything else like you wouldn't want to talk to that person because they're
00:38:28.120probably going to snap at you or put you in jail so i mean i think that we have uh with the recent
00:38:33.960announcement by uh the prime minister and bill blair talking about maybe having canadian armed
00:38:40.580forces go and help deal with uh domestic uh you know policing issues if that's how i understood
00:38:47.340it. But that kind of, that's kind of stepping towards, you know, things that should make
00:38:57.460us very uncomfortable. I mean, some people have said maybe the RCMP is a paramilitary
00:39:03.380force, but not according to Naomi Wolf in her classic definition. But nonetheless, what
00:39:09.400you don't want to see is having your police forces ending up with more and more weapons
00:39:13.440that look like they're going to go and fight a war somewhere.
00:39:16.480Well, I mean, when a line of police officers, RCMP officers,
00:39:20.540shows up at a peaceful protest along the side of a highway in Alberta,
00:39:24.920you know, they stand there with their riot gear on.
00:40:40.200it was there was a protest that went on the mercer bridge for 90 days like that there was
00:40:47.240uh one native elder who was killed at the oka crisis yeah the oka crisis so you had one one
00:40:54.400certain quebec um officer that was killed and one uh indigenous elder but they but they carried on
00:41:01.840for three months you know and they and they negotiated the whole thing you know at the end
00:41:06.780uh you know nobody said four hours and you're gone right right and well that was because
00:41:15.020we've got a first nations issue here we can't step on their toes so policing has become specialized
00:41:21.100in terms of what race you might be up against and you know most of the people uh at the freedom
00:41:26.380convoy were white canadians most of the people who were out protesting the carbon taxes at various
00:41:33.180locations across the country are white canadians like what did stephen harper described them as
00:41:38.140years ago old stock canadians and old yeah yeah old stock white european heritage i mean that
00:41:44.500seems to be uh public enemy number one these days we talk about although i'll just mention that
00:41:50.820that uh with the freedom convoy when they cracked down on the 18th one of the people who they cracked
00:41:56.760down the most at was that indigenous woman candace sarah who had the walker and the and the horse
00:42:01.740trampled on her yeah but you know i i don't think that that was intentional and they they tried i
00:42:07.500mean to their credit you know some of the people tried to say hey wait a minute you just trampled
00:42:11.120on an indigenous woman but the left-wing corporate media wouldn't cover it so you can't you can't get
00:42:16.360the word out unless it's through a show like this step four in naomi wolf's book in your essay where
00:42:22.460you analyze it surveillance of ordinary citizens i think that one's going to be easy to explain but
00:42:26.900And I'd certainly like to hear what you have to say about that.
00:42:31.140Well, I mean, when she was writing in 2007, she was she was writing about things like, remember the back in East Germany from World War Two to 1989 when they had the Stasi and and, you know, if you ever seen the movie The Lives of Others back in 2006, which describes where everybody's being surveilled.
00:42:51.020And she talked about how this is creeping along in the United States in 2006.
00:42:57.800Of course, in 2013, I think it was Edward Snowden said, oh, hey, look what the National Security Agency or the NSA has been doing.
00:43:05.620And of course, we're part of the Five Eyes with Canada and the UK and Australia, New Zealand and the USA.
00:43:12.120So there's lots of surveillance going on.
00:43:14.380And added to all of the surveillance that we get these days, you also have this online harms bill coming along.
00:43:24.480I don't know what reading it's at right now.
00:43:26.760And the whole idea that somebody could decide as a citizen, they're feeling anxious or afraid that somebody else will in the future commit a hate crime.
00:43:45.700And they can report that person to the Human Rights Commission and for their service of alerting the government that somebody in the future might commit something in the future, they'll get $20,000 incentive for their efforts.
00:44:02.560I think that's a very dangerous thing to be doing, incentivizing.
00:44:07.800I mean, just for fun, imagine a couple's had a really bad divorce.
00:44:13.840and imagine that they're both smarting you know we can have them both reporting on online hate
00:44:19.900hate stuff to you know you know and then yes finally says hey weren't you two married earlier
00:44:25.420and they might you know but but you know like like i think just like what's happening in scotland now
00:44:29.740they've got their uh their their hate crime uh stuff apparently now the police in scotland are
00:44:36.160overwhelmed by like eight eight thousand or more hate crimes being reported that it looks like
00:44:41.600they're going to have more hate crimes than, you know, completely overwhelm the whole project of
00:44:47.620even policing serious crimes in Scotland. You know, it's interesting, J.K. Rowling,
00:44:52.360who lives in Scotland, who goes online quite often speaking against all of this ridiculous
00:44:57.280gender nonsense, she has told the police, come and get me, come and get me. If somebody reports
00:45:04.420me as a as a hate speech author come and get me come and get me to date nobody has come to get her
00:45:12.360maybe it's because she's jk rowling but for the average person right just to go on and say
00:45:18.280something like i don't think that jacket looks good on you in this photo could be construed we
00:45:25.140don't know that because we don't know what the basis for hate is based upon who happens to be
00:45:31.920deciding what hate is and what it isn't yeah yeah what yeah what is what is hateful what is
00:45:41.420what is outrageous to one person what is scary to one person uh i mean people have different
00:45:48.460emotional temperaments and and and i mean we're really letting the horse out of the barn
00:45:55.460If we think that everybody in Canada can temperately and soberly think about a hate crime that someone, I mean, it's enough to try and report a hate crime that someone has actually committed that you could talk about and debate.
00:46:11.480But to debate, but to think about a hate crime you think someone is going to commit in the future.
00:46:16.480Well, what do you think they're going to do?
00:46:19.380I mean, it's it's really we're going into into a twilight zone of intangibles and then trying to find or put people in prison because of those subjective perspectives.
00:46:35.820The next step of the 10 here in the book that you analyze, and this is Naomi Wolf's book, A Warning to a Young Patriot.
00:46:43.040Step five is infiltration of citizens groups.
00:56:04.800They're all pulling back on the rush to put children on hormone blockers the moment some discussion happens that somebody thinks maybe they're born in the wrong body or the wrong gender.
00:56:18.460But what they do is not only do they say, we're going to go after you for three and a half years so far.
00:56:28.120We also want you to keep the whole fact that we're doing this a secret.
00:56:34.800That's right. Yeah. It's amazing to me that this has, and you know, all of the nurses, as you point out, have been targeted across the country. We've got Sarah Shojanian, who is still being vilified and being held to account by the Nurses College in Ontario and still doctors being muted and being held.
00:56:59.200Dr. Jordan Peterson, for goodness sakes, I'm not sure if you mentioned him in the article here,
00:57:04.820but you mentioned Kilvinder Cowher-Gill, who was probably the first doctor in Canada to speak out about this nonsense.
00:57:12.720Well, the lockdowns, I mean, you know, by February of 2022,
00:57:18.980John Hopkins Institute was publishing that 0.02% of any COVID deaths was due to the lockdowns.
00:57:29.120And and offsetting that, of course, is we have now statistics can 120,000 small business bankruptcies.
00:57:39.020I don't know if they count the numbers of suicides, all the people who are on depression, all the domestic assaults that have happened and on and on and on.
00:57:49.020I mean, it's just been so the lockdowns were so damaging. Never mind the children being, you know, in and out of not not in school and the lack of social engagements.
00:58:02.180You know, there's a lot there's a lot of harm that that happened. And so she was right. She's been shown to be right, but she's still having to pay.
00:58:12.320and thankfully for crowdfunding uh that got i think that's gotten taken care of but three
00:58:17.040hundred thousand dollars is finally the reduced fine from the college from 1.2 million because
00:58:22.640she was not promoting the quote accepted facts of public health in ontario even though she was right
00:58:30.640they weren't the right interesting and well you see this is where we go back to the the truth
00:58:38.480commission right where what's right what's wrong what's real what's misinformation what's
00:58:42.940disinformation you say this i say that but you know and but i think that's exactly what they're
00:58:49.640trying to do the canadian army sniper brett campbell you pointed him out in this particular
00:58:55.000part of your piece as well here and by the way you guys can find this analysis this essay by
00:59:00.600ray mcginnis who is our guest tonight on propaganda in focus.com it's truly amazing
01:00:01.960Now, I would say they didn't restrict the press, except for people like myself and perhaps Rebel News and Western Standard and the big independents, as much as buy them off.
01:00:13.080Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Trusted News Initiative and buying them off and the one is a one point one and a half billion for the CBC and however many countless millions for other media outlets across the country that were happy to repeat the talking points throughout the whole pandemic.
01:00:31.540Yeah, they got all the key, at least what they thought were the key media sources, right?
01:00:35.240So they got Post Media, they got Toronto Star, obviously, Globe and Mail, I think.
01:01:31.880So the Trusted News Initiative began in 2019, a consortium of media outlets, the BBC, CBC,
01:01:45.800quite a number of different nations in the West, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, a number
01:01:53.680of other number of other countries usa and they're and they're all uh they're all together
01:01:59.860making sure they're all with the same talking points to drive home uh the message now this is
01:02:06.680before the pandemic comes out i mean they're all getting ready to roll out and they're even talking
01:02:11.740about uh they want to oppose dangerous uh misinformation fake news made by anti-vaxxers
01:02:19.300as early as march the 1st 2019 which is interesting the bbc doing that and and and so they're like
01:02:27.860wait hold on hold on you said anti-vaxxers misinformation from anti-vaxxers as early
01:02:32.960as march of 2019 before the pandemic even happened nobody knew it yeah i know but but but but but the
01:02:40.600um the bbc article from march 1st 2019 talked about uh you know misleading and dangerous
01:02:48.320information spread by anti-vaxxers they were referring to vaccines in general but but it's
01:02:55.080almost like they were queuing up an idea for the public to consume and so by the time a year later
01:03:01.880when we have you know started talking about the vaccines for COVID-19 they only had a certain
01:03:07.080sector of people that are BBC watchers all the time but already knew to start thinking about
01:03:12.520anti-vaxxers bad people and so on so it was uh setting us up softening us up for what was
01:03:19.960yet to come let me ask you a question when the censorship is when the censorship really began
01:03:26.420did you actually believe it or did you because i remember going back to let's go back to 2020
01:03:34.200and i remember looking online for something from the government of manitoba regarding um human
01:03:41.240rights and having to show your medical information and on their website was nobody should ever ask
01:03:49.740you for your medical information that was part of the human rights code and i i remember going
01:03:55.280huh that's interesting and i went back three days later and that was gone and i never i never thought
01:04:00.940to think of a or take a screenshot of it because i thought no no no they're not going to do that
01:04:05.420and they did it and then i started looking for things online that were easily findable maybe
01:04:11.220the week before even the day before in some cases and you just couldn't get there anymore
01:04:16.240and i went what what's going on here where were all these pages where are all these sites that
01:04:22.440i was able to access easily a couple of days ago am i losing my mind and that's that was the
01:04:29.400censorship and it never occurred to me ray that they would ever ever consider doing something
01:04:34.640like that no and i um because i was writing my book about uh the families uh wanting an
01:04:45.820investigation of the 9-11 and the 9-11 commission how that rolled out i was already writing a
01:04:52.000controversial book at the time which didn't get published until september of 2021 also because i
01:04:59.560don't have a television uh I mean I was following things but but I wasn't getting all the scary
01:05:06.480visuals I was writing my book I'm a writer I have a computer I I have a mother who's in now 92 years
01:05:15.940old so I mean it was inconvenient to be doing the social distancing and stuff but I was not as as I
01:05:23.600I mean, also, I wasn't working in a workplace because I write and I'm at home, so on.
01:05:29.740So I was as inconvenienced as most people in society were.
01:05:35.660And so it was only when I had a childhood friend who was turning 60, who got his vaccine in mid-June of 2021.
01:05:50.680and within a day uh he couldn't walk he couldn't talk and he'll never work again
01:05:56.180and so that was uh you know a shock and i've had to you know and and there was all kinds of
01:06:04.600implications and i'm close with the family so so i got uh you know and and i see him from time to
01:06:12.300time and you know in his in his shut-in situation so so i had that as a constant reminder that
01:06:20.240Whatever the word safe meant to public health, I knew that it wasn't safe for at least this friend of mine.
01:06:27.320And then, of course, there's been dozens of more people that I know since then, either through in my own address book or through friends of friends or relatives.
01:06:40.120So plus watching people on the National Citizens' Inquiry testify.
01:06:43.400so uh probably more people than you know who contracted and got very sick or died from covid
01:06:50.620right yeah certainly yeah i mean i i i don't i i mean i i know i know of one person who told me
01:06:58.200that at least at least on the on the on the death certificate uh a friend's a friend in
01:07:04.000winnipeg who has a uh a relative who who's they said that they died of covid uh but but that would
01:07:11.800be about it so i yeah so i've got more far more people that i know of that that have vaccine
01:07:17.420injuries and then have had you know i mean mostly people who had to go to get tested with the pcr
01:07:24.240test to even know that they had covid because it was asymptomatic and so on so yeah so that's that
01:07:29.900meme that you see flying around remember when having no symptoms was a symptom a couple of
01:07:34.020guys laughing having a beer that's ridiculous so we've covered the media part of it is step eight
01:07:38.960step nine is to cast criticism as espionage and dissent as treason
01:07:47.060interesting you cite mark carney writing an opinion piece in the globe and mail
01:07:53.320uh in this particular point yeah the uh yeah he was uh right in there letting uh letting the
01:08:00.480readers know it was time to to shut down this protest because all these people were seditious
01:08:05.660and and and so that that's you know that or or diane dean's uh the the city councillor talking
01:08:13.400about how uh ottawa talking about how all the the protesters were mercenaries and insurrectionists
01:08:18.780who was that was it a liberal mp who stood up in the house of commons and said all the horn
01:08:23.860honking was actually a code for heil hitler yes that's when we knew that they had completely
01:08:30.700got off the rails i i forget the name of that person but but yeah a liberal mp did say that
01:08:37.220and so uh again uh alarmist hysterical catastrophizing and and it's it's almost as
01:08:46.140as if everybody in canada was read the story of chicken little except we didn't i don't i forget
01:08:52.100how it ends i think at some point someone calms down but but we we haven't calmed down
01:08:56.500we're like we're a nation of people like all the barnyard animals running around saying the sky is
01:09:03.680falling yeah yeah we have we have to we have to stop it we have to calm down and take a sober
01:09:10.420sober second look at what is happening and what isn't happening i tend to agree with that and and
01:09:17.320then not tend to i fully agree with it and then the final stage here we've got is subvert the
01:09:22.920rule of law and there are several examples here however and that's the government doing this you
01:09:28.120know we it's it's it's a bad state of affairs when you have the head of a provincial government
01:09:35.220danielle smith say publicly that another branch of government in this case the federal government
01:09:42.160is acting uh unlawfully she called the federal government criminals essentially by suggesting
01:10:18.480of Canada but the Federal Court of Canada
01:10:20.120We don't know if the government is going to appeal that or not, but that is the one thing, excuse me, that made any kind of sense that's come out of our judiciary, it seems, in the past four years.
01:10:31.960But when we talk about subverting the rule of law, I mean, how many examples do we have to give here, right?
01:10:38.680Well, I mean, just the whole, I mean, the freezing of bank accounts, the, you know, getting people arrested and then throwing them out in the snow 10 kilometers outside of Ottawa.
01:10:54.920I mean, all manner of things. The case of the four men arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit murder at the Coutts blockade, having several of them, I think Jerry Morin, 74 days in solitary confinement.
01:11:11.120And I think Tony Olienek, 80 days or more in solitary confinement, not not allowing them to have medications, all kinds of behaviors.
01:11:23.360And and also the whole way in which in which so many of the trials of anyone who's been a dissident dissenting regarding pandemic measures.
01:11:33.940uh this this officer uh briscoe constable briscoe briscoe and windsor who uh was already off he was
01:11:44.240already suspended i think and then he was uh in his off-duty time not working at the windsor
01:11:50.140uh police office he was um gave 20 what 50 dollars to the to the convoy and then he's you
01:11:58.580He's been forever hounded by the tribunal and the police and docked 80 hours pay.
01:12:07.820So it's this whole intrusion into people's personal lives, making decisions like Amy Ham to say she likes something J.K. Rowling says or Officer Briscoe.
01:12:23.000And then and then they find out suddenly, oh, I guess anything that I express in public online is going to get me possibly, you know, fired from my job or have all kinds of punitive consequences.
01:12:37.880And so basically, what's happened here is that this federal government,
01:12:43.140and through the pandemic, most of the, all of the actually, let's be honest,
01:12:47.200all of the provincial governments instituted a culture of fear into the people of this country.
01:12:54.920They pit families against family members, friends against friends.
01:12:59.680and i suppose that would also be one of the ways that you can impose this kind of government right
01:13:07.560not necessarily going strictly by the 10 steps naomi wolf lays out but they have now and and i
01:13:15.420believe that that culture still exists just in a different way now whether it's through climate
01:13:19.260change or whether it's through gender ideology or dei or whatever it happens to be people are now
01:13:24.960more divided than they've ever been and that's thanks in large part to the government's big
01:13:30.740corporations and ngos and and the media and and if you have a citizenry where all kinds of
01:13:39.720long-standing friendships and family relationships are frayed to the point of breaking or broken
01:13:45.800and shut shut off then um it's a lot easier for for governments to carry on imposing
01:13:53.000coercive policies when you have that fewer many people to talk to about what you think about
01:13:59.140what's happening on a daily basis because it's very interesting no it's very interesting you
01:14:07.320say that because i just found out something remarkable yesterday that i can't talk about
01:14:11.320publicly but i only have one person that i can really talk to about it because everybody else
01:14:17.180would either a not believe it or b not know anything about it and it's it's like wow man
01:14:22.520that really this whole thing has really minimized my circle just like you were saying yeah yeah so
01:14:29.680the smaller the circles are i mean you know well i mean i'm actually thinking of a monty python
01:14:36.740uh skit in in the life of brian where where there are people who are sitting in the in the in the
01:14:42.940in the big arena and and you know where's where's somebody as far as some revolutionary movement oh
01:14:48.780he's over there you know it's like it's one guy all of the all of the all of the the groups that
01:14:55.880are going to change the world are all made up of a single person they don't have anyone else
01:15:00.300your conclusion here in in a step-by-step basically and i love the way that you phrased
01:15:06.680the very first sentence it may be said that fascism comes on little cat feet almost like
01:15:12.420we're talking about you know what we've heard a million times in the last four years the boiling
01:15:17.460frog yeah and we we don't see it coming most normies and i really don't like using that word
01:15:25.420but there it is uh have no concept that anything is wrong whatsoever although i have seen more and
01:15:32.800more people starting to look around like pick their head up off the desk or the pillow and
01:15:37.480look around and go there's something wrong here i don't know exactly what it is is there a way
01:15:42.920that we can reverse this ray so that we can get people standing up sure uh i think i think that
01:15:53.620we need to exercise our freedom of speech we need to um we need to be having conversations like we're
01:15:59.720having uh this evening uh when i when i talked about like fascism comes a little cat feet that's
01:16:07.180It comes out of a poem somewhere back in the last century.
01:16:10.880But also, you know, although we have a liberal, quote, unquote, government, it's a very illiberal government of Canada, but it's a liberal government of Canada, which has just been like cheerleading big pharma.
01:16:25.660And this is so unexpected, because in past decades, you would never expect to have a liberal government in power in Ottawa being, you know, courtier to pharmaceutical companies.
01:16:42.420it's it's so so there's a fascism there but but you know we may be kind of you know people can
01:16:49.540discuss whether it's uh inverted totalitarianism or or some sort of uh new new neo-fascism or
01:16:56.840autocratic or whatever it is but whatever it is it's all moving us away from the healthy
01:17:02.700norms of democracy that we knew in the past century and so we need to we need to watch that
01:17:08.720that the intolerance, the shutting off of debate,
01:17:14.820the disproportionate and punitive responses of the government
01:18:04.940um i was talking with a lawyer the other day about all of these court cases and some of these court
01:18:11.820cases it looks like they've been deliberately thrown in favor of the government and the defense
01:18:16.140lawyer or the lawyer who had taken up the part of the people who wanted their jobs back was not
01:18:22.100quite doing his slash her job so well and it seemed like there was a little bit of misfeasance
01:18:27.580possibly in the case i'm not going to name names but this one lawyer said to me you know what
01:18:33.600Whenever the next one comes, whatever it happens to be, whether it's a climate change, climate emergency, whether it's another pandemic or a war or whatever it is, instead of going to lawyers, we suggest going to a marketing firm and getting the word out before, like stopping the big marketing campaign that we have to do and fighting it head on like that.
01:18:58.500It would probably be a little bit more expensive, but more effective.
01:19:01.280Yeah. Well, maybe maybe we can get comedians on our side and getting them to lampoon hysteria and catastrophizing and alarmism.
01:19:12.560Yeah, because I mean, there was actually one good I think maybe it was this hour's 22 minutes, but I'm not sure if that was it for sure.
01:19:20.540But there was a comedy spot that happened even on a CBC show, I think it was, within a week after the Emergencies Act was declared with the person who was – they weren't the prime minister.
01:19:34.700It was like a girlfriend-boyfriend thing, and the girlfriend's trying to tell the boyfriend she wants to break up, and he won't let her, and he's going to declare a national emergency.
01:19:48.640So there needs to be a way, you know, like if we can find a way, I mean, marketing, marketing together with comedians to make fun of this kind of nonsense of running around like Chicken Little all the time saying the sky is falling.
01:20:06.720I mean, you know, it's in the sky, but the sky is not falling.
01:20:10.140No, and it's certainly not grounds to call a state of emergency like was done in several jurisdictions across North America, which is, you know.
01:20:18.360I mean, which battle do you think right now that we're fighting is the most important, or are they all equal?
01:20:24.560I mean, we've got the DEI gender ideology thing, we've got the climate change thing going on,
01:20:29.420and all of these things that just seem to overwhelm us.
01:20:32.420Should we go one by one by one, or is there one in particular that you think is the most important that we should focus on fighting back?
01:20:40.000I think that each of us will know which one troubles us or concerns us the most,
01:20:45.500and then we will do something like decide to give some money to a crowd funder like i did to dr
01:20:51.240colvinder cargill you know we we will we will make a decision to support something you know
01:20:57.560maybe there's something happening in our own community there i mean i just learned about a
01:21:02.240friend of mine after i wrote this article she said she wants to get in touch with amy ham because
01:21:07.640she has a her midwife is being uh you know taken to the cleaners with the midwives and nurses
01:21:13.720college in british columbia so so that for my friend it's it's advocating for her midwife so
01:21:20.760uh you know maybe we all need to be having conversations with our doc with our fat with
01:21:26.100our family physician to to educate them about what's what's going on or our concerns about this
01:21:31.300but i think we all have to start with what calls to us the most and trust that all of us each of
01:21:37.440us individuals are in the whole sum total will make a difference whether we're dealing with a
01:21:43.000police issue or a doctor issue or a nurse issue or a student or whatever it happens to be here is
01:21:50.280the article you guys can go ahead and read it for yourself propaganda in focus.com is the website
01:21:56.000the end of canada uh the article is entitled by ray here the shift from democracy to totalitarian
01:22:03.320behavior in the pandemic era again the author ray mcginnis our guest tonight ray thank you for
01:22:09.120coming on tonight where can people find you on social media i am on my my little email or my
01:22:15.160my little twitter thing i'm still i still call it twitter i guess so i'm uh i'm on it's ray
01:22:22.060mcginnis it's uh it's r-a-y-m-c-g-i-n-n-i-s and then digit seven the number seven yeah any
01:22:32.720particular relevance to that or was it just like you were the seventh ray mcginnis to sign up
01:22:36.640well at the time i had a publicist that wanted me to get on you know i got on uh twitter as it was
01:22:44.400called back in may of 2021 and i've never done this before and i'm not really a real fast study
01:22:51.340when it comes to to technology and stuff like that so they just gave me a seven i thought okay
01:22:57.020fine i don't mind the number whatever works man it's a lucky number seven ray thank you for coming
01:23:02.540on tonight we'd love to have you come back on uh one day soon thank you again great thanks shadow
01:23:07.460okay there is ray mcginnis noted author and go read that article you guys because it is
01:23:14.000truly fascinating we just we just kind of scratched it tonight because we only had the
01:23:19.040hour to talk and now look here we are having to wrap up the show on social media when i have so
01:23:26.320much more to tell you so we'll continue the show on shadow davis.com in the extension for you all
01:23:35.220access pass holders if you would like to become an all access member at the website feel free
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01:23:51.620so if you want to do that we'll join you there in two minutes time for all of you already all
01:23:56.780access members we'll see in two minutes and for the rest of you guys who don't want to do that
01:24:01.200who want to call it a night i love you all i appreciate you all and i will catch you
01:24:06.320tomorrow night at eight o'clock with jeff colvin former and possible future mayor of chestermere
01:24:12.200alberta that's going to be on the show tomorrow night at eight o'clock central bye for now