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00:08:53.720canada nanosilver.ca let's bring on marco van hugenbos marco you were in court this morning
00:09:01.340correct correct i was thanks for having me uh absolutely can you uh and i'm sorry uh that i
00:09:08.120didn't say hello first and i'm sorry for my uh for being late you said 8 p.m which was my 7 p.m
00:09:15.420and it's been a day so that that that was a disconnection on my part but this has been a
00:09:20.160busy day for you i'm sure so this was kind of a surprise can you tell us what exactly happened
00:09:24.780uh well essentially a very secretive um um plea deal which that that is how these things happen
00:09:35.000and negotiations between defense councils and the crown um led to this uh nine o'clock
00:09:41.960an hour before the 10 o'clock scheduled pre-trial event with um jerry morin and chris lisek
00:09:49.400i'm going to focus on the key details so essentially we have these two gentlemen
00:09:56.440plea guilty plead guilty to a charge of conspiring to a weapons trafficking event
00:10:03.160on jerry moran's um side of things and chris carver or sorry chris lisek pleaded to a restricted
00:10:14.200weapon charge uh restricted firearms charge the interesting part about this and i'll i can get
00:10:21.880into some of the ongoings of that 45 minutes but large largely procedural right but new to me as
00:10:29.320well as as those accused but the interesting part about this shadow is that the charges
00:10:36.760they pled guilty to were not charges on their initial indictment so essentially these men
00:10:44.200were held three 723 days pre-trial on charges that were dropped
00:10:54.600and i want this i want there to be a moment for people to understand what just happened here
00:10:59.320Yes, they pled guilty to two charges, one one respectively each, but not charges that were that they were accused of for seven hundred and twenty three days.
00:11:14.920So these are brand new charges that have been brought by the crown.
00:11:18.600This is exactly so brand new charges. This is the indictment chain, the charges.
00:11:23.940um this was due to negotiation between the two parties to what will you plead to
00:11:30.940um you know there was a weapons charge initially that lisa had and this made this was a slight
00:11:39.060change but regardless we know the overarching serious accusations that set the precedence
00:11:48.380here from from day one day one being january november february the 14th 2022 and that was
00:11:54.440the conspire the conspiracy conspiracy sorry to murder rcmp officers dropped gone not there
00:12:04.640for these two now there's two more but i mean what happened today is a win today i experience
00:12:13.900justice at work today, and I mean today, for about 45 minutes in courtroom three in front of
00:12:20.340one of the bail judges who was the presiding justice on this sentencing. But the 723 days
00:12:27.860before 9 a.m. this morning has been a travesty of justice in Canada. Marco, do we know how long
00:12:36.040these negotiations were going on um onwards of a week and a half so and and I'm close to Chris
00:12:45.860Lysak not Jerry Morin no no reason I just that's not a connection I have he has his own people but
00:12:52.780until this morning until I showed up to court being one of a few individuals who was aware due
00:12:59.620my relationship to chris lysack i wasn't aware that there was two guilty pleas going to be
00:13:07.780entered but that's what happened but i was aware of negotiations between daniel song chris lysack's
00:13:15.780lawyer and the crown for about a week and a half i would say and limited information naturally right
00:13:25.060right because the concern is that the crown becomes aware that information is out in the
00:13:30.180public and they withdraw all options right that's what the crown can do they have that authority to
00:13:34.820say sorry guys no deal we're back to just you guys are stuck so that's why there's so much secrecy
00:13:41.620around plea deals and things like that they're always negotiated behind the scenes let me ask
00:13:46.260you this why now would the crown decide they want to negotiate a plea deal well there's a couple
00:13:52.580reasons and that's speculation but i believe that some of them are close to factual chris
00:14:01.060lysix lawyer new newly retained recently retained in december daniel song is when it comes to lawyers
00:14:09.940and and a lot of these guys have stellar lawyers i'm not i'm not dissing any lawyer here at this
00:14:15.380point um but daniel song is the best of the best and his applications that were coming forward and
00:14:26.020the reason why i bring this one forward first i believe this is the most critical one his
00:14:29.620application that was going to be put forward this morning if court would have proceeded
00:14:37.860as pretrial scheduled for for weeks for months february the 7th pre-trial commences daniel
00:14:44.820song's application so all defense councils agree to this but there is one particular defense
00:14:49.940council that takes the lead that was daniel song and this application was in respect to it01
00:14:56.900one of the first ones and this application was to challenge the wiretaps
00:15:04.980the information the rcmp assembled and the crown used was
00:15:10.900largely accumulated from the wiretaps the unauthorized right emergency right all of this
00:15:19.860stuff that came out from coots wiretaps because of the threat to public safety blah blah blah
00:15:25.940they were looking to challenge that if daniel song was able to you know if there was no plea deal
00:15:35.140today we would have had the first day of a pre-trial with this application
00:15:39.940with it resulting in friday and a suspended sentence but eventually possibly a sentence
00:15:46.020that ruled these wiretaps as unauthorized unethical who knows and if that were the
00:15:53.300ruling that came out of this application no case no nothing no conspiracy all the information
00:16:00.740that they got out of the wiretaps gone so rather than take it to the judge and roll the dice the
00:16:07.700the crown decided they wanted a plea deal so so what are the deal with the
00:16:14.580what is the situation now for these two men uh are they both released as of now or does one still
00:16:20.580have to wait no both of them are released with their families i've i've seen pictures one of
00:16:26.660of them was cooking a steak they're at home it's bittersweet right two men at home are they are
00:16:32.800they released completely marco i'm sorry to interrupt you we're on limited time here do
00:16:36.480do we have uh they're they're completely three men now correct they have a criminal record
00:16:42.640they have they're completely released uh they had one condition that they had to do dna today so
00:16:50.020that's behind them that's done they do have they both have a 10-year unrestricted restriction on
00:16:57.100on firearms and chris lysack has a lifetime restriction on restricted firearm which falls
00:17:03.300in line with his guilty plea etc right but these men are free men time served criminal record but
00:17:13.960they may very well be called on to testify they may subpoena to testify against the other two
00:17:21.800and i mean they could be subpoenaed by the defense and they could be subpoenaed by the crown
00:17:26.520this isn't over for two obviously still in remand but this is over for these two men
00:17:34.340in relation to their incarceration their charges are stayed going going forward uh the other two
00:17:40.640have got their uh pre-trial dates coming up february 20th i understand they were pushed back
00:17:45.240today correct correct so what is the situation with them do you know of any ongoing negotiations
00:17:52.900with them as well or is this a completely different situation i can't speak for tony
00:17:58.320olianek but chris carvert has not received any plea deals there is no ongoing negotiation there
00:18:03.600i suspect that we will commence february the 20th i hope that tony olianek is a new lawyer that has
00:18:10.340recently retained up to speed and we can continue with these wiretaps because this
00:18:16.420wiretap application that needs to go before the job like that needs to get argued in court and
00:18:23.140open court it is that yay or nay if it's a name there is no more court there is no more prosecution
00:18:30.980right the wiretaps the evidence that the crown and the rcmp gathered under these unauthorized
00:18:37.420emergency wiretaps possibly or is what the crown's using to even have a case to even proceed with a
00:18:46.380prosecution so but the biggest go ahead go ahead no you go ahead no the big the biggest travesty
00:18:54.700here of just the biggest travesty of justice is that we have two men four actually because
00:19:01.180But we have two men that were held 723 days on accusations that were dropped.
00:19:09.840They didn't plead guilty to any of the accusations on the initial indictment.
00:19:17.320If this is our system, then we have no system.
00:23:50.000i don't think so okay good we're good to go so uh david welcome to the show thank you for coming
00:23:56.660on tonight let me just get your thoughts on this breaking news because we can david and i guys just
00:24:03.340so you know we have uh had conversations a couple of conversations and very good conversations in
00:24:08.300the past couple of weeks regarding what is going on in our country today and i think this is a very
00:24:14.560good launching point what happened today and what happened to these four men what's still happening
00:24:20.220to two of these four men um this sounds like a banana republic david and it really does this
00:24:29.600what is your take on this well my take on it is um essentially uh that this is a example a case
00:24:38.840study of lawfare. And there's a large literature and background regarding lawfare. And lawfare is
00:24:48.780essentially the use of the law to put your political opponent in jail, literally, and to
00:24:58.200slander their good name, and to be able to use the law as a weapon against your political opponent.
00:25:04.880And I think this is a case that begs the question, was this a legitimate use of the law?0.71
00:25:12.720And I think your previous guests did a very powerful summary update based on the information.
00:25:19.420But clearly, to put four men in jail for some, if I remember the figure correctly, some 723 days without any kind of bail, and then to make a plea pardon, and we'll see what happens with the other two, but this is clearly not criminal charges.
00:25:43.980So this is where the initial charges could not be supported, in fact.
00:25:53.260And I think this raises severe questions around, dare I say, the integrity of those parties involved.
00:26:02.540I think there should really be, when things are said and done, and we'll wait to see what happens.
00:26:09.700But I think we need to take a very critical view of what's going on here.
00:26:13.980Was it propping up a narrative that was really driven by political actors, or was it actually pursuing legitimate charges?
00:26:23.280And I think this is not going to go away.
00:26:27.680I think there's many of us that are watching this situation very carefully, and that includes researchers at Frontier, including a fellow named Ray McGinnis, and he'll be issuing a book on the very near horizon on this topic.
00:26:44.640David, this to me, and I know to many other people, feels like a degradation of our most beloved and respected institutions all across our country.
00:26:54.720We're talking about the so-called justice system.
00:26:57.440We're talking about the police, the RCMP, our national police force.
00:27:01.440We are talking about the media, CBC specifically, because I suppose you could call that a Canadian institution.
00:27:08.140It's been paid for long enough by the taxpayers of this country.
00:27:11.020And it seems as though all of these institutions and government, all of these institutions, bureaucracy, have been working together. This is how it seems to vilify a certain section of the population that they don't agree with. Could we call this creeping Marxism in Canadian society, or is it just blatant at this point?
00:27:35.380you know i i would say that in this context it's truly the misuse of the law i that's why i refer
00:27:44.600to it as lawfare and lawfare has a very particular history to it but i'm not sure if it's marxism
00:27:51.240per se in this case shadow i see it as a corruption if you will of different institutions so if we
00:27:57.980build on some of those remarks shadow and that's well said a kind of a 360 degree review of this
00:28:04.080we can see the hallmarks of corruption and i i don't know what other word to use for it i mean
00:28:10.640if you look at um uh justice one of the hallmarks of our society as you said is is the rule of law
00:28:17.640and that has different components it's not just simply having good judges involved who apply the
00:28:25.720law and and obviously i'm i'm a kind of a traditionalist that advocates uh the rule of law
00:28:32.540based on the English common law that's carried over to this country that goes back some thousand
00:28:38.380years. But also part of justice is having police which are independent and professionals who lay
00:28:50.280charges not based on some kind of political cue, but their understanding and evidence of the law.
00:28:56.700So there's question marks there when it comes to how did these charges even happen?
00:29:02.020And then I think you also have the role of the crown, obviously, in all of this.
00:29:09.140And I think that there's also a kind of a more subtle issue, and that is if you look
00:29:15.620at the history of this case, and the history will be written, and that is the roles of
00:29:20.580the ministers of justice and the attorney general.
00:29:23.480And I think that at a federal level, those are very particular roles that need to be
00:29:30.180taken in a very professional or neutral fashion within the cabinet. So those positions are within
00:29:37.360a cabinet that is, of course, a government that is, quote, political. But those roles are very
00:29:43.080special under statute. And I think there's very important questions that we need to ask
00:29:48.000about the performance of those individuals in those roles, and whether they were actually
00:29:53.340serving their duty or whether they were politicizing and pushing a particular outcome in this case.
00:30:01.820And if that's the case, I think this could have major, you know, impacts on them.
00:30:09.240Do you think, and you know what, before we continue on the conversation, there's a lot of people
00:30:13.540watching this show right now, David, that don't know you. You're appearing on the show for the
00:30:17.800first time. So please tell us about yourself just a little bit and what your role is with
00:30:22.820the Frontier Centre for Public Policy? Sure. Well, I've been very fortunate to play a number
00:30:28.240of leadership roles over my career from an elected official at the local government level,
00:30:34.180including as a mayor in the Waterloo Region. I've been able to undertake a number of roles
00:30:39.580within other levels of government, as well as with the province of Ontario. I was part of a team that
00:30:46.580was reorganizing many programs uh years ago and so i've i've helped service a uh a cabinet committee
00:30:53.020but but in that capacity i was never partisan i was uh also as a senior bureaucrat but also
00:30:59.480i have worked within the education sector in the private sector and on the private side i was uh
00:31:06.340working as a a ceo of a large chamber of commerce so i really do believe in freedom and the public's
00:31:13.400and the importance of prosperity, and I'm also very much trained in both history and philosophy,
00:31:21.700but also within public analysis. And so part of my background was also working years ago as a
00:31:28.860senior vice president at Red River College. It's a large polytechnic in the proud province of
00:31:34.060Manitoba, and I've also done other things. So at the Frontier, I work as a vice president there,
00:31:41.000And so what I do is I really relate to different audiences as well as invite investment in the frontier because we do not receive, like so many others, government monies.
00:31:51.220We believe it's important to be independent, to be able to speak truth to power, because it seems in our perspective that there's often cases where, frankly, people are compromised.
00:32:03.400They can't speak truth to power because that's where their bread is buttered.
00:32:09.460David and I had a wonderful conversation, you guys, about a week ago.
00:32:14.720I think you were at the airport in Calgary, David.
00:32:17.260And so we couldn't really hear each other so well.
00:32:20.760But we talked about Marxism, and I brought up the name James Lindsay, who I've watched extensively for the past year or so.
00:32:29.080And I said, this guy has got a very good grasp on what exactly is going on with this new Marxism, or as he calls it, this neo-Marxism.
00:32:36.480and what you said at that point to me was startling in that yes he has a very rudimentary
00:32:41.260grasp of it well no i i certainly wouldn't uh criticize him i think he's a brilliant fellow
00:32:48.420so i don't want to give any other impression no that's not what i mean what i mean is that oh my
00:32:52.140goodness well you you must have a much more extensive background in researching this based
00:32:57.020upon uh your you know your background in history so please can you tell us exactly let's start from
00:33:04.400here the difference between because a lot of people have a rough time grasping this concept
00:33:09.020the difference between marxism and communism to start with okay from there well i mean they're
00:33:17.960they're they're certainly very similar in the sense that um there's uh different forms of
00:33:24.520communism uh the whole idea that um things should be owned in common uh the means of production and
00:33:32.360And this all goes back to the theorists of Karl Marx and his ilk.
00:33:39.700And so communism is really a kind of a more of a descriptor of a government system,
00:33:46.520whereas Marxism is profoundly, from a bigger picture point of view,
00:33:51.000a more of a theory about the so-called scientific approach to understanding,
00:33:57.160and believe me, I'm not a fan of Karl Marx,
00:33:59.880of how history will unfold, and Marxism is basically an analysis of the oppression that
00:34:10.300is happening in society, and it really becomes kind of a strange analysis of how we need to
00:34:19.220look at society through a particular political lens that tells us then what we should be doing
00:34:27.700to bring about, quote, justice, but a particular type of justice. And that is social justice that
00:34:34.280emphasizes fairness towards the ends of equal outcomes. So not based on, like, so there's all
00:34:43.580these language and words that flow from Marxism. And then on the implementation slide, we see it
00:34:49.860in different colors, if you will, in the form of communism, which is one of many, many different
00:34:57.360kind of general implementations of this philosophical or historical approach to
00:35:04.460what they believe is the right way to look at the world. It's a worldview.
00:35:10.620And there's absolutely no way that they could ever just implement Marxism or communism on a
00:35:17.360free country. So they would have to do it in a devious way. They would have to do it using the
00:35:22.640language of freedom and democracy and that's what i believe what we're seeing right now we're seeing
00:35:28.060uh you know joe biden and pierre or sorry not pierre uh justin trudeau stand up in front of
00:35:33.920the people of their countries and say uh disinformation and misinformation and people
00:35:39.520like tucker carlson are a threat to democracy when in fact they're the ones who are shutting
00:35:44.640down free speech they're the ones who are rigging elections possibly i don't want to say that for
00:35:50.180sure, they're the ones who are acting like totalitarians. So in this way, what we're
00:35:55.080dealing with is a 1984 scenario. You're familiar, of course, with Yuri Besbinov and that famous
00:36:01.280interview from 1984, where he talks about the slow eating away of a free country from the inside.
00:36:08.660Is that your impression of what is going on today? Are we in the final stages? Do we still
00:36:13.340have some time here? Well, the short answer is yes. In other words, our ideological opponents
00:36:20.760are working at their objectives in many different ways. And some of it is organic, but a lot of it
00:36:29.520is coordinated in some measure. And there's a kind of a mixture of different things that are
00:36:36.220going on. And maybe I could just break them down a little bit. I think you have, and I know I'm
00:36:42.220simplifying this, but you have people that I would refer to as true believers, people that are
00:36:48.260real ideologues who believe in the tenets of a particular form of Marxism, namely cultural
00:36:57.380Marxism, and I can get to that in a moment. But it's also mixed with a very pernicious or toxic
00:37:03.500view of an epistemology, an understanding of knowledge and truth. And so there's very specific
00:37:12.980things that have developed over time, and it's evolved significantly the last, I would say,
00:37:20.82020 years in particular. And I've had a kind of a front row seat in this over time.
00:37:27.740um so if we think of say political correctness we think of um and i thought that was something
00:37:35.640that we started hearing more of in the early 90s i would say is in terms of my own recollection i
00:37:41.200don't know when you heard about it shadow well i was actually about to ask i'm sorry to interrupt
00:37:45.580you but i my recollection is back in the 90s when they started telling us that we shouldn't say
00:37:51.320merry christmas anymore and instead yes it should be happy holidays i'm like what are you talking
00:37:55.880about it no it's going to be merry christmas for the rest of my life and that was the first time
00:38:00.100and that does go back some 30 years now yeah exactly so when i started uh talking about this
00:38:07.880and doing um some lecturing on the issue it related to a particular evolution not only of
00:38:16.740marxism and i'll get to that in a moment but also our view of knowledge and often it's been said that
00:38:25.000in human history, we've gone through different kind of epochs of worldviews about how we perceive
00:38:31.980knowledge and truth to exist. So, you would say that in millennia ago, we had a kind of a
00:38:39.580traditional worldview of knowledge where there was a hierarchy of established order from, say,
00:38:46.300the aristocracy or the king or the queen, and then a flow of people downward in terms of authority.
00:38:52.060you may have the estates of the church, you may have various classes,
00:38:57.420but many people were essentially serfs or slaves.
00:39:03.160People as serfs really were beholden to their masters for both protection,
00:39:10.720and they would, for some, rent land and really have a very subsistence lifestyle.
00:39:17.420So in that context, the elements of truth were very, very clear.
00:39:21.640but in this age um and let me get like just to go back to that for one second what you were just
00:39:27.380discussing that uh that's feudalism correct yeah feudalism exactly yeah or slavery um right and
00:39:35.540and most of the world today i would argue are uh still remain in some form of feudalism
00:39:42.960or slavery i mean it's it's a really sad comment as people can barely make
00:39:47.840a living and go forward with their lives. In this context, though, you've got to understand that
00:39:55.780Marxism, as Karl Marx described it, where you had these economic classes essentially fighting
00:40:03.180with each other, and the whole hope was that over time there would be an enlightened worker class
00:40:09.880that would rise up, a proletariat that would overthrow the bourgeoisie, the owners of capital,
00:40:17.840and they would rightfully create a new kind of utopia in the form of a communist state
00:40:24.280that would essentially bring social justice to bear and a better world,
00:40:29.740and there would be no longer any, quote, oppression.
00:40:33.640So that has never obviously panned out.
00:40:38.060And what happened, there was a particular set of theorists that followed Karl Marx,
00:40:42.440And I think the most seminal one, in my humble opinion, was a guy named Antonio Gramsci.
00:40:49.180And Antonio Gramsci was a Marxist who was put in prison years ago in the 20s by the dictator Mussolini.
00:41:01.440And he, in a Genoa prison, through secret means on scraps of paper, developed a whole epistle on where Marxism needed to go.
00:41:11.380And he said basically, which I unfortunately have had the privilege of reading too many times, he articulated that Marxism needed to adapt because the worker class was essentially being co-opted, he said, by wealth and prosperity.
00:41:28.640because during this time workers were too going up in their standard of living and he was concerned
00:41:35.220that there would never be an opportunity to realize of the fullness of of marxism in the
00:41:41.860form of a communist state people would never uprise so what he needed to do is introduce
00:41:46.740new divisions based on culture whether that would be gender even sexual orientation he identified
00:41:53.700as I recall, but it is really quite a foreshadow of what we have today. So that was the basis in
00:42:04.340which our cultural Marxism was being articulated. And then on top of that, most recently, we've had
00:42:11.600the emergence of a kind of a different understanding of truth and how, quote, futile that is,
00:42:17.480in the form of kind of a pernicious postmodernism, and I could go to that in great detail,
00:42:24.060but the punchline there is that they would assert that there is no truth.
00:42:28.860The truth is only found in a number of things.
00:42:31.760One is your lived experience as a person, and secondly, the truth that there is oppression,
00:42:38.840and that if we are within the realm of oppression, we need to, as a truth, act on it.
00:42:44.420So everything becomes, through that kind of cynical lens, as James Lindsay speaks so well
00:42:50.260of it in his summary book, is a very cynical view of the world, that there is ongoing oppression,
00:42:56.860it needs to be rooted out, and that we, in the case of academics, should no longer be
00:43:03.220passive, but we should be active. So this type of philosophy of thinking has, in effect,
00:43:11.080infected most universities in canada now in many different forms and i can speak to that but
00:43:18.260so many people in the humanities self-identifying as marxists this is the critical lens theory that
00:43:25.940they use so when they're looking at applying uh theory is the general header for all of this
00:43:31.400it is this pernicious mixture of toxic cynical values of both cultural marxism but also the idea
00:43:38.520that there is no truth and the only truth that we have is really our only lived experience so
00:43:43.120the scientific method the scientific method of looking at truth and evidence is no longer in
00:43:51.940play this becomes seen as utterly racist as a imposition a kind of a intellectual colonialism
00:44:01.200so they don't believe in science so you have to understand their perspective and how they use
00:44:08.560words in a very particular way if you're to understand how we deal with this so
00:44:15.620there's so many ways so many different ways we could go with this but let's just say that this
00:44:23.220is kind of a nihilism that's been taught in universities and yes probably high school now
00:44:29.200for the past 30 or so years and we've got a generation of people who actually believe
00:44:34.820in this stuff if they paid any attention that's right yes so let's let's just say we've got
00:44:41.660what percentage of our population and this will be probably a guess unless you've done some some
00:44:47.040fact finding on this but what percentage of our population david would you say
00:44:51.720buys into this nihilistic theory that there is actually no reality at all at two plus two equals
00:44:57.720vibe yeah well um i mean it's it's a hard thing to put your your finger on precisely as i put up
00:45:05.680my thumb but i i would say that it's a relatively tiny part of society a lot of it comes out of
00:45:13.740and i use these words to uh directly is uh it's kind of out of the bowels of our universities
00:45:20.380that it finds sustenance because it's taxpayers supported by and large
00:45:25.220and these people self-select uh in order to get a faculty post now in most cases you have to
00:45:33.800buy into this pernicious ideology so we're talking about a relatively small number
00:45:38.900however they're very influential because in many ways they have infected and i think the the virus
00:45:47.540is a very um apropos analogy they've infected many of our institutions including um colleges
00:45:59.500of of teacher education and and and the stories are profound like that this is very very problematic
00:46:06.120but also law schools to some extent law schools so um even professional schools we even have
00:46:16.260professional schools such as medicine where some universities are implementing admission policies
00:46:25.220where they have students they have to sign off a confidentiality form that they will not be
00:46:31.280revealing that process and they have to sign and buy into a code of conduct where they say
00:46:37.860i buy into these this program of diversity equity inclusion and it's clearly from this
00:46:44.880cultural Marxist perspective. So I don't know about you, but I want a capable physician,
00:46:51.660let alone a pilot, let alone any other professionals. I don't want someone hired
00:46:57.400based on their political viewpoint. So this is, every institution has its story of how this is
00:47:06.420happening. And I think that if you look at the, well, post-October 7, with the horrific terrorist
00:47:13.820attacks of Hamas, you have had, I would call them, a series of revelations that are kind of in full0.76
00:47:21.140view. As the mask falls off, the light of day shines on these things and exposes really the0.92
00:47:28.340nature of the thinking and how absurd and, I think, I'm not sure what words to use, but harmful
00:47:37.780these perspectives are and farcical in many cases because a lot of these theories and and just to
00:47:44.420be clear theory is kind of the general moniker for this kind of toxic stew of between cultural
00:47:50.320marxism and this kind of nihilism of post-modernism now that came out of a specific french theorist
00:47:56.140largely uh michelle ficole who was a absolute um well i i don't want to vilify him personally but
00:48:03.300a very troubled individual at best uh you know someone you'd never look up to as a model but the
00:48:09.320point is that this type of theory as a moniker has created a whole sub theories of of of children0.67
00:48:17.920if you will in the form of colonial theory you've got queer theory which is so the colonial theory0.53
00:48:25.820is all about saying anything with any form of colonialism is automatically evil with just a0.73
00:48:32.480total black and white misinterpretation of any of the benefits of colonialism it's just it's absurd
00:48:37.920and then you have things like queer theory which are really um related to basically tearing down
00:48:44.320any norms of family or any norms of sexuality and that's where the trans movement really
00:48:51.880had its genesis um and i mean there's a whole long history around these so there's a whole
00:48:57.640series of these theoretical schools that are being propagated, and they have made their way
00:49:03.220into our institutions. And this is why the Coutts case matters, because it's also related
00:49:09.620in part to the belief that you have a class of people. They aren't necessarily Marxists,
00:49:16.480but they certainly buy into a lot of edges around it, where the ends justify the means,
00:49:22.020because they are the good and the great. And somehow, we are entitled to create a narrative
00:50:46.960there is this enormous paradox where you have people advocating for since for instance Hamas
00:50:55.280which is if you understand this this is a religious war from their perspective they
00:51:01.000have a religious duty to commit suicide pardon me genocide on the Israeli nations and Jews I mean0.97
00:51:11.320this is this is so evil that you think you would be justified to go in and and kill innocent people0.98
00:51:19.100so how is it that anyone with any sense of perspective or fairness let alone justice0.83
00:51:26.800would somehow support an organization such as hamas unless you believe that somehow they
00:51:34.240themselves are oppressed through this colonial uh you know ideological perspective that somehow
00:51:40.360Israel is the oppressor now, and that therefore the violent, horrific actions that were taken
00:51:46.220are somehow justified. So I'm not saying that in that terrible situation in war now that we should0.95
00:51:54.720not be seeking peace, because we should be, but we should have our eyes wide open to the reality
00:52:00.500of the terrorist and genocidal nature of Hamas. If we do not do that, we are truly delusional,
00:52:07.020And I think that is almost the cognitive brilliance of some of these theories, that they have infected people's minds and ability to think clearly.
00:52:17.260He is the VP of Development and Engagement with the Frontier Center for Public Policy.
00:52:22.720David, these ideologies, these doctrines are so far removed from the human condition that it's unbelievable to see some of these things.
00:52:34.820And so the average person and when I say average person, I mean, but what is average anymore, right?
00:52:42.500The average heterosexual person who happens to be of Anglo heritage walking down the street and see and sees all this stuff and goes, what the heck is going on?0.99
00:52:53.780They're yelling no space for hate on the one hand, and then they're calling you an effing bastard on the other hand.0.98
00:53:00.200I mean, do you think that this is going to implode before too long because it absolutely doesn't make any sense?0.99
00:53:08.460I mean, crazy is unsustainable as far as I'm concerned.
00:53:11.760Or is this doctrine so deeply entrenched that it's only going to get worse?
00:53:17.780Oh, gosh, that is a really interesting question, Shadow.
00:53:22.180I would say that I believe that there will be, I'm going out on a limb here.
00:53:29.720I believe that wokeism, if that's a common term to describe this kind of bizarre cultural Marxist nihilistic movement, shows signs of peaking.
00:53:42.860It doesn't mean that the movement itself will not double down on some of these narratives, because they also provide, and you have to look at people, and I don't pretend to be a psychologist,
00:53:55.940But these types of analyses for people, and I don't think they're credible analyses at all, obviously, they give people enormous psychological sense of identity in a world where too often people don't have meaning or even a kind of a religious grounding or a grounding in, say, family or whatever.
00:54:19.220but it gives people enormous sense of a high if you will i think when they can be so judgmental
00:54:24.060and feel like they are so right so there's there's that angle but also what you have is
00:54:30.340the way this movement happened over decades and people need to know this history
00:54:36.020has not been accidental this has been intentional it's not been organic but it has been largely
00:54:42.600under the radar of most people who are just doing what oh yes trying to work and make a living
00:54:48.720so this is what is peculiar and they're seeing that not only is it becoming more visible in the
00:54:56.020light of day that is where i hope that people can engage and look at this critically and have a
00:55:02.400healthy debate about this in a high functioning society at the same time the other reality is
00:55:07.740these decisions that are being made that are kind of appealing for or seeking support from these
00:55:16.040people in this movement these activists are not grounded in reality and are doing
00:55:21.880immeasurable harm and pain in terms of canadians lives so um today believe it or not i i saw i met
00:55:32.460some uh friends at the uh at my gym and we were catching up and i told them that i was going to
00:55:39.980be joining your your program today and there were two relatively young fellows and uh and it was
00:55:47.280quite an interesting conversation because as um i said well so what are the issues that you think
00:55:53.640i should talk about and their response was very telling and i did not do any prompting whatsoever
00:55:59.520at all but their responses were well there's a whole list of issues that you should be talking
00:56:05.400about, not the least of which is that, I mean, they made some very partisan comments, which I'm
00:56:10.120not going to repeat because, you know, that's important. But they said, it is incredible the
00:56:17.340lack of affordability when it comes to our lives. And these are younger guys in their clearly,
00:56:22.640you know, I would say mid to late 20s and good guys. And they said, you know, we don't have a
00:56:27.720future. It's like they're trying to kill the middle class. And I said, so why do you think
00:56:33.280they're doing it and they said well because they think they are right and it's like they're they're
00:56:39.440not listening to the people so this whole imposition of climate justice or you know that
00:56:45.860was passed just before christmas is going to quadruple your taxes on your gas like what what
00:56:51.160future do people have people have so as people experience this pain then i think then you have
00:56:57.300a rising up of people saying why is this going on why are these people imposing all kinds of
00:57:03.420harebrained quote policies that are not grounded in reality and that are hurting canadians so this
00:57:10.380is where i have some measure of hope because that's where people rise up and say no more
00:57:14.900this is absurd there are two genders male and female and yes if you're confused about your
00:57:21.900gender then please compassionately work with a counselor but that's between you and your parent
00:57:28.260not the state so there's a lot of common sense here that i think people will force be forced to
00:57:34.260confront and i think that's going to be quite a quite a confrontation it's going to get much
00:57:37.940worse before it gets better you know interestingly you said go see a counselor or a psychiatrist or
00:57:43.800psychologist or something how do we know that person hasn't been indoctrinated by this cultish
00:57:48.200view. Is it a cult? David, do you see this as a cult? I think that there's elements of it that
00:57:56.620are, and in a particular way. I've often said that the rise of this woke movement, if you can
00:58:03.240characterize it, and I know it's varied. Many of them don't even agree among themselves, but there's
00:58:08.600certain particular characteristics about it where they work together, and I've said this many times,
00:58:14.840as a kind of a secular religion it's a religion based on many different practices namely the
00:58:21.300belief that my truth it's almost like the epitome of a kind of a self-centered narcissism where
00:58:28.980people say well the truth is really what i make it to be it's my lived experience and i think this
00:58:36.100is enormously harmful as people go about their actions then in a way that really disregard any
00:58:41.980grounding and kind of evidence or fact but they also believe in a particular truth which is
00:58:49.240even though there's no evidence and many truths in different walks of life they do believe in
00:58:56.240a central truth that there is impression that oppression does exist and that would anchor their
00:59:02.360belief that they are justified they are morally justified to undertake any action to get rid of
00:59:11.500that oppression. So any perspective that identifies, say, the colonialists or white
00:59:19.960people in particular, or people of a certain gender or background, heterosexuals, they are0.96
00:59:26.240oppressors in our society. And so there is no forgiveness. There is only activism based on the
00:59:33.940truth that they believe justifies their actions. So in this case, is it a cult? Well, I think
00:59:40.400there's hallmarks of it and i think it depends on the individual but a lot of them uh some of them
00:59:46.420as i've talked with with many over the years really do believe uh they have drank and i know
00:59:51.500it's a horrible analogy based on the jim jones incident from many many years ago i remember
00:59:55.920reading about that as a kid they have drank the kool-aid they're not thinking about facts
01:00:01.700they're not thinking critically and those are the hallmarks of a cult yet they accuse us of
01:00:09.920being that they accuse us of everything that they are perpetrating on us on on us and in that way
01:00:18.280i suppose it's gaslighting which is definitely a very cultist cultish maneuver yeah but but shadow
01:00:26.200in that context, I'm sure many people are familiar with the name Saul Alinsky. So Saul
01:00:34.080Alinsky was, I would argue, quite an incisive, immoral genius when it comes to tactics and
01:00:49.100war political warfare um and his famous epistle rules for radicals is a kind of a summary of that
01:00:58.220and and so if you want to believe that your cause is so justified that the ends justify the means
01:01:05.740then that is the rule book for you because it basically says uh you can kind of do all kinds
01:01:13.160of dirty tricks uh to vilify your opponent do ad homin attacks uh basically demonize your opponent
01:01:20.920um without really getting into into any kind of substantive debate because you want to drive
01:01:27.440towards a certain end and so for me this is horrific and i think this should be familiar
01:01:34.040to people and i think we need to call them out because those are not the hallmarks of a civic
01:01:40.400honorable society where we have and you know there's a long history of people acting poorly
01:01:47.040but we need more than ever a time of respectful discussion based on the best take on on evidence
01:01:54.860and facts and yes there's always healthy debate about what those facts are so bring it on that's
01:02:00.080part of our history you think the world is flat okay well let's let's look at that evidence and
01:02:04.640Let's deal with it. But who are you as a state to kind of, in a ham-fisted way, vilify other people who may disagree with you?
01:02:13.840I have never seen anything like it. Politics in the past was always, well, we're going to raise taxes.
01:02:20.700Oh, yeah, well, we're going to lower taxes. That kind of an argument, right?
01:02:23.580There was never any argument about the actual basis of our way of life.
01:02:29.000and now it seems as though that is at risk and yet there are so many people who don't seem to
01:02:36.760understand that who are sitting in the middle watching all of this go on is is how is that
01:02:42.440explainable david okay well i i think it is very explainable uh based on a thoughtful perspective
01:02:50.540of history. I would reference the work by Dr. Stephen Davies from the Institute of Economic
01:03:00.080Affairs in the UK, who I think has a very incisive analysis. And I think that we've all studied about
01:03:07.380why is it that we are in an age that has been so prosperous? And I think there's a number of
01:03:14.660things that are very important. And it's important to understand this so we don't lose our prosperity.
01:03:20.260And it's important to understand how this kind of woke movement has the ability potentially to really destroy our society.