The StoneZONE with Roger Stone

00:00:00.000 The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.

00:00:05.840 Welcome back in The Stone Zone.

00:00:08.180 We're joined now by William Pulte.

00:00:10.620 Bill Pulte is a dynamic American businessman and philanthropist

00:00:14.900 who was appointed as director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency

00:00:19.000 by President Donald Trump and confirmed by the U.S. Senate in March of 2025.

00:00:24.920 He is a successful entrepreneur and businessman.

00:00:27.520 He is the grandson of William J. Pulte, the founder of Pulte Group,

00:00:31.960 one of the nation's largest and best-known homebuilders.

00:00:35.100 He is a former director of Pulte Homes and the chief executive officer

00:00:38.700 of Pulte Capital Partners before joining the government.

00:00:41.920 And now, I believe Bill Pulte's appointment demonstrates President Donald Trump's pledge

00:00:47.580 to make housing affordable again and to expand the affordable housing across the country.

00:00:54.160 Bill Pulte, welcome to The Stone Zone.

00:00:56.200 Thank you, Roger. Always good talking to you.

00:00:59.520 So, we have a little bit of time before we have to go to break,

00:01:02.440 and then we'll have more time to talk about your commitment to President Trump's agenda

00:01:06.380 to make housing more affordable and to extend the housing stock in America.

00:01:11.100 But how did you find things when you were first appointed to the Federal Housing Finance Agency?

00:01:16.640 You have oversight of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,

00:01:19.840 two of the most important engines for financing of homes in America.

00:01:24.560 But I remember you telling me that virtually nobody was showing up for work.

00:01:28.440 Yeah, we had 16,000 people, Roger, if you can believe that.

00:01:31.140 And most all of them were not going to work.

00:01:33.940 And it's crazy to think about it because these are the two largest companies in terms of asset size in the world.

00:01:38.940 Roger, we have and Americans have these two companies,

00:01:41.540 Fannie Mae with $4.4 trillion in assets.

00:01:45.740 Can you believe that?

00:01:46.280 And $3.4 trillion at Freddie Mac.

00:01:48.700 These are huge American icons.

00:01:50.920 And until President Trump showed up on the scene, as far as I'm concerned,

00:01:54.400 no other presidents really gave a damn about these two companies.

00:01:58.780 You told me a great story, which I'm going to ask you to repeat.

00:02:01.120 You told a driver to take you to one of their corporate headquarters,

00:02:04.900 and he didn't know where it was because he'd never been there.

00:02:08.280 Yeah, he said, I don't think those exist.

00:02:09.560 I wanted to go to the Fannie Mae office in Virginia and the Freddie Mac office in Virginia.

00:02:14.840 And he said, sir, I don't think we have offices out there.

00:02:17.640 And this is the guy who had been with all of the directors since inception.

00:02:20.660 So, look, you know, it is what it is.

00:02:23.660 What's happened in the past has happened.

00:02:25.320 But now we're in the driver's seat and we're affecting positive change.

00:02:28.200 We've been on the job eight weeks.

00:02:29.860 And we're moving at lightning speed because President Trump was given a mandate,

00:02:34.140 and we are doing everything we can to fill that out.

00:02:36.440 When we come back, I'm going to ask Bill Pulte about this Truth Social post by President Donald Trump.

00:02:42.980 He said yesterday, I'm giving very serious consideration to bringing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public.

00:02:49.520 I'm speaking with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick,

00:02:53.980 and Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency William Pulte, among others,

00:02:58.220 who will be making a decision in the near future.

00:03:00.840 Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing very well, throwing off a lot of cash,

00:03:04.200 and the time would seem right to take them public.

00:03:08.040 So, stay tuned.

00:03:09.160 When we come back, I'm going to ask Bill Pulte about that potentially historic posting on social media by President Donald Trump

00:03:16.100 and talk about the prospects for more affordable housing,

00:03:20.100 which is the marching order that President Trump has clearly given the agency director, Bill Pulte, who joins us today.

00:03:26.620 Thanks for joining us in the Stone Zone today.

00:03:29.200 Bill Pulte probably knows more about housing than anybody I know.

00:03:34.860 Like Donald Trump, he's a businessman.

00:03:36.820 He doesn't come from government or politics.

00:03:38.600 He comes from the private sector.

00:03:40.500 I'm anxious to get his answers on the other side.

00:03:43.480 Whatever you do, don't touch that dial because we'll be right back in the Stone Zone in just a few minutes.

00:03:48.360 Welcome back to the Stone Zone.

00:03:50.140 We're talking to Bill Pulte.

00:03:52.140 He was appointed director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency by President Donald Trump,

00:03:58.140 and in that role, he takes very seriously his charge from President Trump to make housing affordable for all Americans.

00:04:07.340 Again, he has already enacted incredible reforms at that agency.

00:04:13.680 Bill, let me ask you, how have inflation and the interest rates affected the current housing market?

00:04:18.780 And this is a matter of personal opinion.

00:04:21.360 Do you think the Federal Reserve should cut rates to create a further housing boom in America?

00:04:28.680 Well, I agree with all of President Trump's comments on the Fed needing to lower rates.

00:04:32.460 I would say that the inflation under Biden, and we all know this, was astronomical.

00:04:37.940 And what happens for people who don't know about mortgage rates and why mortgages are so unaffordable is mortgage rates generally track inflation rates.

00:04:46.060 So when inflation goes up, often mortgage rates go up.

00:04:49.700 And the reason for that is basically that, you know, when inflation goes up, people want to use interest rates to keep inflation down.

00:04:57.940 And so now we've got the situation that is a total mess that was created in the last four years.

00:05:03.160 And, Roger, we're working every day to reverse the damage that's occurred in the last four years.

00:05:08.460 I'm incredibly optimistic that the president's going to be able to turn around the housing market and make houses affordable again.

00:05:15.400 But we definitely have our work cut out for us.

00:05:18.540 Yeah.

00:05:18.700 You recently upset the Democrats by firing the chief executive officers of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae,

00:05:26.720 appointing yourself, chairman, because, of course, you report directly to President Donald Trump.

00:05:32.020 What made these moves necessary?

00:05:33.380 Well, we saw a lot of fraud in the companies, and we, frankly, were frustrated with some of the poor decisions that were being made.

00:05:42.500 And, you know, like any good manager, when you come in and you don't think that things are being done right, you take what the required action is.

00:05:48.480 And so we went in and we took the action.

00:05:50.340 And I'll tell you, the best thing we ever did was become chairman because that gives you the ability to actually control things.

00:05:58.160 And when you're responsible for things, you need to be able to control the outcome.

00:06:01.800 I don't know how anyone can get anything done if they're accountable for something and they have no influence on the outcome.

00:06:08.840 And as you know, Roger, these companies, or said differently, anything that is affiliated in any way with the government, you know, they have almost like a deep state to them.

00:06:18.440 In other words, there's these people who just do not want progress to happen.

00:06:22.500 And, you know, what's funny is when you think somebody's on your side and then you find out that they really aren't, you know, that's the deep state.

00:06:31.640 It's where you don't think that people are going to show up.

00:06:33.640 And so we were just a fan of, you know, getting rid of the cancers that we believe were there.

00:06:39.340 And then, you know, hopefully the businesses will be stronger than ever before.

00:06:42.840 And I can tell you, Roger, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are stronger than ever.

00:06:47.420 So you mentioned finding a lot of mortgage fraud after digging around in your new position.

00:06:51.860 Is the fraud anywhere near the level of mortgage fraud that we saw in like 2007, 2008 that caused a mortgage crisis back then?

00:07:00.400 No, I don't think so.

00:07:01.440 But as you know, we want to avoid the slippery slope and we want to stop mortgage fraud where it is.

00:07:06.220 You know, I referred Letitia James to the Department of Justice, you may have seen, for what we believe to be mortgage fraud. 1.00

00:07:14.300 You know, I don't want to comment too much beyond that letter, but I would say to you, generally speaking, Roger, that, you know, there is an issue in this country where people are claiming that they live in one state and going and buying property in another.

00:07:26.780 There is also a situation where people are overstating their earnings.

00:07:29.920 There's also situations where people are claiming that, you know, they have more units in building or less buildings, less units in buildings in order to get access to financing that would only be available at certain levels.

00:07:40.980 So, you know, we are taking a very strong approach to it.

00:07:44.500 It doesn't matter, Roger, whether you're a politician or whether you have an Esquire after your name.

00:07:48.900 If you commit mortgage fraud in this country, we are going to come after you, period.

00:07:53.100 Well, no person is above the law.

00:07:55.400 I forget it was who said that, but I think she's about to find out.

00:07:58.640 So, Bill, your reaction to the passage last night of, I think, the single largest tax cut in American history by the House of Republicans?

00:08:07.100 Well, it's following from the president's mandate.

00:08:09.300 And obviously, you know, the president's mandate speaks for itself.

00:08:13.160 Look at what's happening now with the House of Representatives.

00:08:15.360 I'm sure the Senate will pass it in due course, hopefully, God willing, and we'll be off to the races.

00:08:20.840 But look, we got a lot of work ahead of us, Roger.

00:08:22.920 These last four years, what happened with inflation and what happened with housing costs?

00:08:27.340 You know, President Trump doesn't get much credit, but he's been able to bring down the inflation and housing costs.

00:08:32.720 And I wish that would be reported more.

00:08:36.140 I saw in an interview you said there are a lot of things were put in place during the first Trump administration that the Biden administration canceled and that you have brought back.

00:08:46.040 Can you mention a few?

00:08:48.000 Well, we've brought just back getting rid of all of the bureaucracy, even from the Obama era, if you can believe it.

00:08:53.220 I mean, we still have regulations that are just complete and utter nonsense that have been in place since Obama that were requiring all this bureaucracy, all of this reporting.

00:09:04.900 Roger, I mean, we've saved almost $100 million.

00:09:08.900 Think about that.

00:09:09.520 $97 million is the exact number that I was told by the CFO of Fannie Mae.

00:09:14.680 $97 million just by getting rid of useless reporting, useless bureaucracy at Fannie Mae alone.

00:09:23.440 I mean, these numbers are astounding.

00:09:26.140 And by the way, Roger, not a day goes by where I don't get shocked with millions of dollars that we're saving.

00:09:31.480 The Fannie and Freddie are now extremely profitable, but nothing compared to what they could be.

00:09:39.100 I want to ask you about this tweet, or I should say, I think it was his first, a true social posting.

00:09:45.700 The president said, I'm giving serious consideration to taking Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public.

00:09:51.700 I'll be speaking with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick,

00:09:56.600 and the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, William Pulte, among others,

00:10:01.840 and will be making a decision in the near future.

00:10:05.000 Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing very well, throwing off a lot of cash, and the time would seem to be right.

00:10:10.420 So stay tuned.

00:10:11.760 Bill Pulte, what is the case for taking both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public?

00:10:16.760 Well, the president puts it better than anyone, and he says, point blank, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing well, and they are.

00:10:24.300 People are back in the office.

00:10:26.080 These things are spitting out cash.

00:10:28.080 And frankly, if we have our way with them, which we will, they will be great American icons, once again,

00:10:32.940 that have tremendous, tremendous earning power, and that inures to the benefit of the American people.

00:10:37.840 The whole reason that we did what we did with the chairmanship and taking a strong approach to, you know,

00:10:43.360 making sure that there are good outcomes with this situation is exactly to make sure that we can deliver on what President Trump is saying,

00:10:50.000 which is making sure that these businesses are spitting out cash and doing better than ever before.

00:10:55.240 I'll defer to the president in terms of what his truth post will mean.

00:11:00.060 Ultimately, he will be the one making the decision on it.

00:11:02.620 However, in the meantime, my main focus is on making sure that through the chairmanship,

00:11:08.040 but most importantly through the directorship at FHFA, federal housing, through President Trump,

00:11:13.520 that we are keeping all of our options open and running these businesses in tip-top shape.

00:11:18.520 And I can tell you, Roger, when you have 16,000 employees and no one showing up at work,

00:11:23.060 they were not in tip-top shape under Biden.

00:11:24.920 They were in the toilet, and we're getting them back. 0.98

00:11:26.900 We're getting them back up and running, and we're going to get going again.

00:11:30.660 I noticed one of your critics said this on social media to give you a chance to respond to it.

00:11:36.680 Somebody said that if Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taken public,

00:11:41.220 it would cause the value of housing bonds to crash.

00:11:45.580 Your view?

00:11:47.700 Well, we're extremely sensitive to and will make sure that any study that we do in terms of this whole process

00:11:53.120 and just thinking about it in general has to really be focused on making sure that there's not an upward pressure on mortgage rates.

00:12:00.080 And I'm very focused on it.

00:12:02.240 We're very focused on it.

00:12:03.720 And I think that it's going to be something that's very important to us.

00:12:06.240 So first and foremost, Roger, no matter what happens, is the safety and soundness in the mortgage market.

00:12:11.200 And I can guarantee you we are going to make sure that the mortgage market is safe, sound,

00:12:15.940 and that there are not increased costs, no matter what the outcome is.

00:12:19.240 About a week ago, I think it was, I had Barry Habib, one of the nation's leading experts on both the housing and the mortgage market,

00:12:29.080 a man who's actually credited with saving the mortgage market back in the past

00:12:35.200 when he made a stunning presentation to the Federal Reserve.

00:12:40.200 And he made an excellent case for taking these public.

00:12:48.340 He also expressed great confidence in your leadership at FHFA, I might add.

00:12:54.360 I guess my concern here is that there are those out there who don't understand that Donald Trump,

00:13:04.880 kind of like Bill Pulte, is first and foremost a businessman, an entrepreneur,

00:13:09.220 a man who understands the dynamic of business,

00:13:12.080 and that these decisions made by the president, I think, could lead to a true golden age

00:13:19.200 in terms of not just affordable housing, but a drop in inflation, lower grass prices, lower food prices.

00:13:29.420 I really do think we're on the cusp of a golden age.

00:13:32.260 We are.

00:13:33.440 We are, but he has to reverse what's gone on the last four years.

00:13:36.860 And I keep saying this, and, you know, it's not something we want to talk about.

00:13:39.780 But, I mean, Roger, the inflation that happened in the last four years is borderline, you know.

00:13:44.800 I mean, I don't even want to say it.

00:13:45.980 It's just not good.

00:13:46.880 It's just not good what happened under Biden.

00:13:49.160 And to your point, President Trump has gotten groceries down, eggs down, and he's gotten oil down.

00:13:55.320 One of the things he doesn't get credit for is home prices.

00:13:58.140 Home prices are not sky high in terms of rate of change quarter over quarter like they were.

00:14:03.920 I mean, Roger, people couldn't afford homes.

00:14:06.140 People could barely afford their rent.

00:14:07.700 So, yes, we are on the cusp of that, and I'm very positive, very positive about the economy under President Trump.

00:14:14.380 But what he's doing right now is nothing short of Herculean to turn around what happened the last four years.

00:14:19.900 This shrimp and coconut sauce is divine.

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00:14:36.440 From curries to sweet treats like coconut flan?

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00:14:45.780 Find it in the Goya section of your local grocery store.

00:14:48.100 If it's Goya, it has to be good.

00:14:50.720 Amazing report just the other day, which was something Barry Habib had kind of tipped us to,

00:14:55.920 which is virtually all of the job creation numbers published during the Biden years were bogus.

00:15:02.240 So they would project, you know, a net gain of 60,000 jobs and it got huge headlines.

00:15:09.340 And then, of course, three days later, they would quietly restate that, ratcheting the numbers way down.

00:15:14.760 Of course, the second story never got any coverage.

00:15:17.940 So, I mean, most of the economic information that the Bureau of Labor Statistics was giving us had been cooked, cooked for political purposes, cooked to try to affect the 2024 election.

00:15:32.260 I'm not sure what could be done to ensure that the information being put forward by some of these federal agencies, which sadly are still riddled with holdovers, with people who are loyal to the last regime or loyal to the institution rather than committed to the president's pro-growth, pro-opportunity agenda.

00:15:54.460 But I think that it should be a high priority.

00:15:56.120 I agree. And I think that, look, you got a you got a great team, a great economic team, and they're going to get to the bottom of anything I believe as it comes up or as it's been done that they believe is untoward.

00:16:07.720 But, you know, in terms of our mortgage fraud, that's really where our focus is on, as you know, and making sure that there is safety and soundness in the mortgage market.

00:16:15.640 So I can't really help in that area.

00:16:18.720 But I can tell you one thing, Roger, we are laser focused on this mortgage fraud.

00:16:22.520 And as I said earlier, if you are a politician or you are a famous person or you are a lawyer and you think you can get away with mortgage fraud in this country, you are underestimating what we are going to do to get rid of mortgage fraud.

00:16:37.260 You know, you have sweeping powers in that area and this idea that you are somehow weaponizing the system.

00:16:45.260 I mean, the facts are the facts.

00:16:47.000 This has all been very heavily documented.

00:16:49.360 We had Sam Antar, who is the publisher and editor of whitecollarfraud.com, who did the original analysis on this.

00:16:58.940 He shows you the actual documents.

00:17:00.920 So this isn't conjecture.

00:17:02.680 This isn't a projection.

00:17:04.220 This isn't this isn't a polemics or propaganda.

00:17:09.040 And the signed, notarized documents are what they are.

00:17:13.980 And it is very compelling in the question of Attorney General Letitia James.

00:17:19.720 And then she just says to the New York Times, oh, well, yes, I did sign a power of attorney in which I said that that I was going to occupy this home in Virginia.

00:17:31.780 It would be my principal residence.

00:17:33.320 But but before that, I signed an application that didn't say that.

00:17:37.120 Well, there is no such application.

00:17:39.120 The New York Times just writes that as a fact.

00:17:40.880 But you can look in the records.

00:17:42.580 There is no such notarized application.

00:17:46.040 It is amazing how the media seeks to cover for her.

00:17:51.340 And then if you saw this bill, but they actually tried to move legislation in the New York state legislature where the taxpayers of New York would pay for her legal defense, her defense in action. 0.93

00:18:04.680 She took not as attorney general, not in her official capacity as attorney general, but as a private citizen, actions that she took that appear to me to constitute a 22 year record of mortgage fraud.

00:18:20.260 And the Democrats want the taxpayers of New York to pay for her legal defense. 1.00

00:18:26.220 She hired the lawyer, Abby Lowell.

00:18:28.960 He last represented Hunter Biden.

00:18:31.460 And he'll sign his name to anything, whether it's true or not.

00:18:34.760 But I can tell you this.

00:18:35.980 He's not cheap.

00:18:37.160 I see no reason why the taxpayers of New York should pay for that.

00:18:40.780 Bill, you don't have to comment on any of that.

00:18:42.620 I don't expect you to.

00:18:44.080 I did see.

00:18:45.100 And I appreciate it.

00:18:45.860 And as I said, I can't comment beyond the letter.

00:18:48.000 But just as a general matter, as it pertains to mortgage fraud, to your point, you know, we are a look.

00:18:55.200 We look at housing and mortgages as not political.

00:18:58.480 I mean, we want a strong housing market.

00:19:01.100 We want a strong mortgage market.

00:19:03.760 It doesn't matter whether you're black, white, Republican, Democrat, politician, lawyer, famous person, not famous person.

00:19:10.880 If you commit mortgage fraud, in our view, you are a threat to the market.

00:19:15.860 Very, very well put.

00:19:19.780 I saw in an interview the other day that you said when you got to FHFA, you found people working there posing as Americans, but who were not even U.S. citizens, Chinese citizens, Indian citizens.

00:19:34.300 When we come back, I'm going to ask you about that.

00:19:36.540 I'm also going to ask you, given your family's reputation as builders, isn't part of the housing boom the need to bring the cost of house building materials down?

00:19:49.320 We'll be back with Bill Pulte to answer those questions on the other side.

00:19:53.440 Please, whenever you don't touch that dial, we'll be right back in the Stone Zone in just a minute.

00:19:57.700 And we're back in the Stone Zone for our final segment.

00:20:01.600 We're talking to William Pulte.

00:20:03.540 He was appointed by President Donald Trump as the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, FHFA, after a stunningly successful business career.

00:20:17.640 He's an entrepreneur, businessman.

00:20:20.000 Home building is in his blood.

00:20:21.880 His family, of course, is known as one of the premier home building companies in the country.

00:20:27.500 He's also one of the earliest pioneers of online philanthropy, and we're glad to have him.

00:20:38.480 Bill, when it comes to housing, it's not just the availability of mortgages.

00:20:43.760 Don't we have to bring down the cost of home building materials? 1.00

00:20:48.680 I mean, roofing materials, bricks, wood, all the things that cement, all things go into home building.

00:20:55.200 Absolutely.

00:20:56.360 Absolutely.

00:20:56.920 But under Biden, Roger, all these materials went up.

00:21:00.240 They went sky high.

00:21:01.480 And now we're trying to wrestle them and wrestle the ascent back to normal levels.

00:21:07.100 I mean, it was crazy what had gone on.

00:21:09.280 We really have to give credit, Roger, to President Trump, because you look at what has happened to oil prices, which are a leading indicator for some of this.

00:21:18.800 You look at what's happened with groceries.

00:21:20.820 You look at what's happened with eggs.

00:21:22.520 Now we're starting to see it in some of these products, Roger, and that's absolutely critical.

00:21:26.720 Drywall has become more affordable.

00:21:30.280 Lumber has become more affordable.

00:21:32.500 Kitchen and bath countertops have become more affordable.

00:21:35.660 And so these things are very important because, as you said, it takes two to tango.

00:21:39.560 You need the products and you need the mortgages to be affordable.

00:21:42.600 And one without the other, you're going to be in trouble.

00:21:45.640 And thankfully, we have a president, I believe, who understands that.

00:21:50.980 As the chief regulator for federal home loan banks, what have you told the heads of those banks?

00:21:56.900 I told them we've got to get rid of climate.

00:21:58.900 We've got to get rid of DEI as a result of, you know, what we look for when we go to hire board members.

00:22:04.400 It's crazy that we are focusing on climate and DEI in terms of lending money to people at a local level.

00:22:13.420 We need to focus on lending to banks.

00:22:15.780 We need to focus on lending to businesses.

00:22:17.920 We need to focus on lending to things that create jobs, not this nonsense DEI and climate stuff.

00:22:24.420 So, you know, we're getting back to business, Roger, and that's our mandate, and that's what we told.

00:22:29.800 I oversee, Roger, through that position, through the banking side of things, a trillion dollars.

00:22:35.700 One trillion dollars is on the balance sheet of these 11 banks.

00:22:39.220 And, you know, we take it very seriously, just like we do the $7.8 trillion in the mortgage market.

00:22:45.300 All right.

00:22:45.960 I want to thank our guest, Bill Pulte.

00:22:48.260 He is, as I say, the director of the Federal Home Finance Agency and the man who's carrying out President Donald Trump's mandate to make housing affordable again and available again.

00:23:03.960 He also, as has been reported, recently sent a letter to the Department of Justice referring New York Attorney General Letitia James to that office

00:23:14.780 for what his office investigators found as a serial series of actions that he and his investigators deemed as mortgage fraud.

00:23:25.480 The next step will be left up to the Department of Justice.

00:23:28.780 It has been confirmed by FBI Director Cash Patel that they are investigating.

00:23:34.000 It's also been confirmed that a grand jury to look at those claims has been impaneled in Virginia.

00:23:40.880 We will keep you up to date on that.

00:23:43.140 When the president decides whether or not he wants to take Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public, as he speculated he may do in a true social posting last night,

00:23:53.940 Bill, we'd love you to come back in the Stone Zone and talk to us about the implications of that.

00:23:58.860 So thank you again for joining us.

00:24:00.620 Great talking to you.

00:24:01.720 It's great to have you.

00:24:02.940 For our friends out there listening to the Stone Zone, God bless you and Godspeed.

00:24:07.140 Until tomorrow.

Bill Pulte ｜ 05-22-25

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