The StoneZONE with Roger Stone

00:00:00.960 At Desjardins, we speak business.

00:00:03.880 We speak equipment modernization.

00:00:06.040 We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets.

00:00:09.980 And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes.

00:00:14.260 Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do.

00:00:17.960 Business.

00:00:18.760 So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us.

00:00:23.460 And contact Desjardins today.

00:00:25.520 We'd love to talk business.

00:00:30.000 The Stone Zone.

00:00:32.440 Entertaining and informative.

00:00:34.600 On the Red Apple Podcast Network.

00:00:37.500 And we're back in the Stone Zone.

00:00:39.980 Joining me now, retired U.S. Army colonel and combat veteran Douglas McGregor.

00:00:46.000 He is a legend in military circles because of his leadership in the Battle of 73 Easting,

00:00:52.940 the U.S. Army's largest tank battle since World War II.

00:00:56.600 He is also one of the most formidable defense and foreign policy thinkers in the country.

00:01:03.900 He is the CEO of Our Country, Our Choice.

00:01:06.660 You can follow him at OurCountryOurChoice.com.

00:01:10.260 Former advisor to the Secretary of Defense, Colonel McGregor.

00:01:13.480 Welcome back into the Stone Zone.

00:01:15.580 You have a very strong and persuasive piece today, picked up by Zero Hedge, I was happy

00:01:22.960 to say, that you make the case that the President Trump should not use U.S. force, should not

00:01:31.160 enter this conflict, should not attack Iran.

00:01:34.200 At the same time, Bibi Netanyahu is telling us that if Tel Aviv fails, well, New York City

00:01:42.120 will be attacked, which I think is unlikely.

00:01:46.040 Please, Colonel, make the case.

00:01:50.780 Hi, Roger.

00:01:51.880 It's good to talk with you.

00:01:53.380 My concern at this point is that the situation for Israel with each passing hour grows worse.

00:01:59.720 Israel is really being pulverized.

00:02:04.540 The Iron Dome, as well as Israeli intelligence, I think collectively they failed.

00:02:10.020 The Israelis launched a Pearl Harbor-style attack, expected the Iranians to reel in shock,

00:02:17.500 and to their surprise, the Iranians recovered quite quickly.

00:02:21.080 And since then, Iranians have been launching inexhaustible numbers of missiles. 0.97

00:02:26.580 Large numbers were old missiles designed to attract Israeli and American air defense capabilities

00:02:33.880 because we have the THAAD radar and battery on the ground, as well as Patriots.

00:02:39.620 These are operated by U.S. troops.

00:02:42.520 We also have Aegis-class destroyers operating the Aegis air defense system.

00:02:48.460 And, Roger, we're running out of missiles.

00:02:50.580 We just don't have very many in reserve.

00:02:53.400 Israelis are running through most of those. 0.99

00:02:55.580 And to be frank, the Iranians have only just begun. 1.00

00:02:59.540 And right now, the latest reports that I'm seeing from people I trust who know what's happening

00:03:04.400 tell me that the Iranians are planning to launch attacks so devastating 1.00

00:03:08.920 that by the time the carrier battle groups and additional forces, air and naval power

00:03:15.000 from the United States arrive in the region, there may not be much of Israel left.

00:03:20.040 So my view is that the best thing right now that we can do to rescue Israel from this situation

00:03:26.280 is to come to an end, to say, look, we've got to find a different way forward.

00:03:31.980 We have to end the tragedy in Gaza.

00:03:34.640 That's been the catalyst for all of this hatred and destruction.

00:03:38.560 We have to put all of our assumptions aside.

00:03:41.600 We need a great power conference.

00:03:43.080 And instead of trying to exclude everybody we don't like, we have to bring in the people

00:03:47.820 that can help us put this thing together.

00:03:50.140 And that means Russia and China, India, and probably Brazil, along with ourselves.

00:03:56.020 Sit down and talk to each other as equals.

00:03:58.840 And then tell the Iranians and the Israelis, stand down and we'll arbitrate this thing. 1.00

00:04:08.540 And the outcome may not be 100% of what anybody wants, but I think we need to do something quickly

00:04:14.580 because this could ultimately spin out of control, move beyond the region.

00:04:20.180 And the Russians and the Chinese and others who may not really want to be part of this 0.99

00:04:24.140 may feel obligated to intervene.

00:04:26.360 And then there is always the nuclear threshold.

00:04:29.280 And the Israelis have substantial numbers of nuclear warheads.

00:04:33.320 Using one of those at this point would be catastrophic because I think inevitably

00:04:37.580 nuclear weapons would be used against them, not necessarily from Iran, but other sources.

00:04:43.660 In other words, before this thing goes any further, I think President Trump needs to stand up

00:04:49.880 and say, let's take a different approach entirely.

00:04:53.200 He seems to have done that.

00:04:55.300 It was interesting that immediately after the attack by Israel, he was calling for talks.

00:05:00.460 He wanted to get the Iranians back to the table. 1.00

00:05:03.300 It's a Wall Street Journal story out this afternoon.

00:05:05.820 It says that they are ready to come back to the table.

00:05:08.260 I found that encouraging. 0.99

00:05:10.380 Do you think the Iranians are foolish enough or perhaps their command and control is somewhat 1.00

00:05:15.740 dysfunctional? 0.99

00:05:16.700 Do you think that they will attack any U.S.

00:05:19.300 asset, either intentionally or through miscalculation, or perhaps one of their proxies does so,

00:05:26.460 prompting the president to act in a way that may not be in our best interests?

00:05:31.780 Thus far, the Iranians have scrupulously avoided doing anything that would give the United States 1.00

00:05:40.780 an excuse to intervene.

00:05:42.840 As for the talk business, I'm very suspicious of what comes out of the Wall Street Journal,

00:05:47.420 the New York Times, and others.

00:05:48.580 I don't find any evidence that the Iranians have expressed an interest or a willingness to come

00:05:54.120 back at all.

00:05:55.720 And the other thing is that I think President Trump's credibility is at an all-time low.

00:06:01.320 They regard him as somebody they can't believe.

00:06:05.300 And I'm afraid that's true in Russia and China, which is another reason why President Trump

00:06:11.360 needs to bring them in to a conference and stop pretending that we're not really on the

00:06:18.600 side of Israel.

00:06:19.400 We are 100% on Israel's side.

00:06:22.200 Everybody knows that.

00:06:23.160 But we're also interested in Israel's survival, and we're not interested in destroying Iran. 0.91

00:06:29.140 And unless we stand up and say that and bring those others in, whatever President Trump does

00:06:34.420 at this point, may not make a great deal of difference.

00:06:37.440 Now, our mutual friend General Flynn has argued that the Israelis should be allowed to proceed 0.99

00:06:43.460 in their own defense.

00:06:45.280 But playing devil's advocate, is it not true that the Fordow nuclear site is so heavily embedded

00:06:54.340 that only American power, our proprietary conventional 30,000-pound bunker buster bombs, have the capability

00:07:03.620 to take it out?

00:07:05.420 Well, Roger, I think you make a good point.

00:07:07.940 I would go one step further, and I would say I'm not sure we can take it out.

00:07:12.700 This is kind of a self-defeating process.

00:07:16.520 We could have had an agreement with reduced uranium enrichment for purely civilian purposes.

00:07:23.480 That was rejected.

00:07:24.820 And ultimately, it was clear that Iran had a choice.

00:07:28.780 It could be humiliated and essentially get on its knees and beg for forgiveness and be a subject state of greater Israel, or it could fight.

00:07:38.100 You can't do business that way.

00:07:40.420 And Iran is not going to be subjugated.

00:07:42.800 We have to treat Iran as a sovereign state.

00:07:45.700 And I think if we bring in all of these other great powers at a conference, let the various people make their case, arbitrate it, and sort it out, we can avoid a major war.

00:07:56.880 The problem right now is that you've got the Russians who are telling the Iranians, look, work with us.

00:08:03.040 We'll find a way around this.

00:08:04.740 You know, you can send your spent fuel to us.

00:08:07.160 You can store whatever you want with us.

00:08:09.360 And the Iranians are saying, no, we are a sovereign power.

00:08:13.500 We are not going to surrender our sovereignty.

00:08:16.360 So it's a very bad situation.

00:08:19.320 And then you've got President Trump.

00:08:20.920 And you know President Trump, Roger, very, very well.

00:08:23.160 He takes things very personally.

00:08:25.200 And the worst thing that could possibly happen at this stage is that he decides to become personally enraged and commit us to a conflict that we're not prepared to fight.

00:08:34.420 We'll go through our arsenal of missiles and rockets and everything else very, very rapidly.

00:08:38.340 The best that we can put to sea right now at one time are four carrier battle groups.

00:08:44.340 We've got two on their way there.

00:08:46.360 Then there'll be two more that will be sent over.

00:08:48.420 They'll overlap for a brief period of time.

00:08:50.180 And then the other two will have to pull out.

00:08:52.260 And then defending them is not going to be an easy proposition.

00:08:55.120 And the worst thing that I could imagine happening would be to lose a capital ship at sea right now.

00:09:00.760 Then you cross the so-called Rubicon.

00:09:03.840 How do you get out of it when you begin taking a major loss like that?

00:09:08.340 It's easy to get stuck reaching for the same familiar fruits and vegetables.

00:09:13.760 Even when you know a colorful variety is key.

00:09:16.700 Balance of Nature's fruits and veggie supplements don't replace fruits and vegetables, but it makes it easy to add more variety to what you already eat.

00:09:24.420 With 31 ingredients that are whole fruits and vegetables, switching it up is easy because we've already taken care of the hard part.

00:09:30.780 Go to balanceofnature.com and get a free fiber and spice supplement.

00:09:34.220 Plus 35% off your first set as a new preferred customer.

00:09:37.340 But using discount code POD.

00:09:39.900 The other excellent point that I think you make that most Americans do not recognize is they just assume that there will be no effect on them.

00:09:47.620 Should we proceed and the Iranians shut down the Strait of Hormuz where almost a quarter of the world's global oil supply flows, it would be, as you point, a huge disruption in supply chains and the cause of runaway inflation. 0.71

00:10:04.140 You predict, I think correctly, that gas could hit $7 a gallon virtually overnight.

00:10:09.640 Every working family in the country would be crushed. 1.00

00:10:12.780 Suddenly truckers cannot deliver food, as you put it, causing our economy to crash.

00:10:18.720 So Israel trying to drag us into this wider conflict. 0.72

00:10:26.020 Americans should not assume that it will have no effect on their everyday lives.

00:10:30.580 I think the impact would be catastrophic, as you point out.

00:10:35.400 No, you're 100% right.

00:10:37.180 Plus the fact, you know, I strongly support many of the internal, actually all of the domestic policies that President Trump has implemented.

00:10:46.280 They haven't been perfectly implemented.

00:10:48.020 We have a long way to go, but he is on the right track.

00:10:50.640 All of that could be lost overnight as a result of what you described.

00:10:55.360 And Americans are pretty understanding until they can't eat, until they can't buy something, until they don't have a job.

00:11:03.180 We don't want to walk down that road.

00:11:05.740 And in the meantime, we can't lose sight of something else.

00:11:08.980 If we are truly Israel's friend, we stop suicide when we see it approaching. 0.99

00:11:15.140 And I think that's really the big issue.

00:11:18.020 Do we want Israel to survive? 1.00

00:11:20.180 I vote yes.

00:11:21.560 And if you vote yes, you've got to stop them.

00:11:24.700 This notion of letting them go on to defend themselves.

00:11:27.620 Wait a minute.

00:11:28.720 They're not defending themselves.

00:11:30.080 They're in an aggressive, offensive war.

00:11:32.360 Greater Israel, it dramatically expands Israeli territory and control, is not a matter of defense. 0.95

00:11:39.720 So to say that is just ridiculous.

00:11:41.920 We've got to be honest. 0.91

00:11:43.620 Look at what's happening.

00:11:45.200 Put an end to this Gaza tragedy.

00:11:47.740 It has to end.

00:11:49.020 I was sent something tonight by a friend in Israel.

00:11:52.680 It was a video of people sitting in a shelter in Israel.

00:11:57.740 I thought at first it was an airport or perhaps a subway or something.

00:12:01.800 It was unfortunate.

00:12:03.580 I felt badly for the people who were there.

00:12:06.060 But it's a hell of a lot nicer than being in Gaza right now. 0.66

00:12:09.560 And I think we need to put that Gaza thing right at the top of the agenda and end that catastrophe. 1.00

00:12:16.100 When President Trump visited Riyadh, and I think later said it again in Qatar, he announced that we would be getting food, medicine, and aid to those in Gaza.

00:12:29.960 But I saw no follow-up on that.

00:12:31.900 Do we believe that really happened?

00:12:34.340 No.

00:12:34.940 No, Roger, it hasn't.

00:12:36.660 Very little has gotten through.

00:12:39.220 And that's been a deliberate Israeli policy. 0.62

00:12:42.420 You know, President Trump is someone that probably ought to publicly say that Israel should hold a snap elections because it needs new leadership.

00:12:53.940 You know, mass murder is not a national policy that the world is going to support.

00:12:59.620 Some people got away with that in the past, and we know.

00:13:02.880 They still paid a price in the 20th century.

00:13:05.220 But this is the 21st.

00:13:07.660 That kind of thing is just no longer tolerable.

00:13:10.440 We shouldn't support it.

00:13:11.420 And he can stop it.

00:13:13.720 One of the most compelling things that you write here is we have 40,000 troops in the UAE, Qatar, and across the Persian Gulf.

00:13:21.360 They're sitting ducks.

00:13:22.720 Iranian Shared 136 drones cost about $20,000 each, while American Patriot missiles cost $4 million per interceptor.

00:13:31.820 Do the math, you say.

00:13:33.020 We will run through our inventory of missiles and go broke while Americans come home in boxes. 1.00

00:13:37.640 This is, I think, a stunning reality.

00:13:40.080 You have much courage in saying it, but it has to be said.

00:13:43.700 It really does threaten to disrupt President Trump's governing coalition.

00:13:49.700 He was elected as the anti-war candidate.

00:13:52.280 He was elected as the candidate to oppose endless foreign war, where our inherent national interests were not clear.

00:13:59.540 Yet, I fear that some of his advisors, some around him, and some leaders, such as Netanyahu, seek to draw him into this war to do the dirty work of Israel.

00:14:12.120 And this, I agree with Tucker Carlson, who is taking quite a beating from some on the right today, but who is sticking to his guns, as you have done.

00:14:23.700 While I have you, I do want to ask you about the stunning diplomatic move to bring Syria in out of the cold to take our ambassador to Turkey, Tom Barrack, who's an enormously able man, somebody I've known since 1972, make him a special envoy to Syria.

00:14:42.460 It's a stunning piece of statecraft, but I wonder what your thoughts are on the implications of it.

00:14:49.880 Well, the Turkish-Israeli cooperation that helped to produce the removal of Assad and the emergence of this new government of former ISIS members and former al-Qaeda members is something that's very difficult to fathom.

00:15:08.620 We want something that produces stability.

00:15:12.340 But most of the people that we're dealing with right now in Damascus are bathed in blood.

00:15:20.840 They've killed untold numbers of Christians, Druze, Shiites, Armenians, you name it.

00:15:30.620 I don't know how long this thing will last.

00:15:32.540 And right now, the relationship between the Israelis and the Turks on this whole score is sickeningly reminiscent of the Nazis and the communists in 1939.

00:15:46.220 I don't know how long this thing will last, Roger.

00:15:49.020 I think we need to be very careful.

00:15:52.440 We're in the Stone Zone.

00:15:53.640 We're talking to Colonel Douglas McGregor, and we'll be right back.

00:15:57.040 The Stone Zone.

00:15:59.100 On the Red Apple Podcast Network.

00:16:02.540 And we're back.

00:16:11.700 We're talking to retired U.S. Army Colonel Douglas McGregor, former advisor to the Secretary of Defense and author of five books on military history and strategy.

00:16:22.160 One of the great geopolitical and military strategic thinkers in the country.

00:16:27.760 And he is a very strong piece picked up today by Zero Hedge, in which he urges President Trump not to commit American force to the war in Iran.

00:16:40.520 You have a kind of a five-point proposal here for the president that you say the president should do to disfuse the conflict.

00:16:49.840 Colonel McGregor, go through this for us.

00:16:51.320 Well, first and foremost, I think we should do something nobody in Washington likes to do, which is to go to the United Nations and ask the United Nations Security Council to effectively impose a ceasefire that we say we will support.

00:17:07.760 End the killing in Gaza and make it clear to the Israelis that until they stop killing people in Gaza, we are not going to continue our aid to them. 0.90

00:17:17.360 And then also to talk about the other things that are going to have to happen in connection with Gaza, one of which is eventually we've got to put some soldiers in there that will provide some measure of security and separate the parties.

00:17:29.720 And they'll have to come from non-aligned nations, not from us. 0.64

00:17:34.120 You know, and then I think more important than anything else, we've got to hold a conference.

00:17:39.920 These things have happened before.

00:17:41.840 They've been done before, during and after wars.

00:17:44.460 We need a great power conference, and we need to bring in China, Russia, the United States, also India, I would argue, which is not aligned, but has strong interests in the end of this instability, and ultimately Brazil.

00:17:59.220 We need to make this as global as we can, but still keep it to a small group of people.

00:18:05.000 And then we need to sort out these issues.

00:18:07.100 And I don't think that harms us.

00:18:09.320 I don't think that diminishes our power.

00:18:11.200 I think it will increase our influence and stature.

00:18:14.460 And I think it would be very good for President Trump to offer to host this wherever we want to have it and lead this effort and get everybody on side, and we'll come up with a solution that won't necessarily be what everybody wants.

00:18:29.320 But it will stop the war, because I'm very afraid of where things are headed right now.

00:18:35.080 Israel is not doing well, and we can't necessarily rescue it in time. 1.00

00:18:40.220 And we need an end to this as soon as possible.

00:18:43.440 Well, as you correctly point out, the neocons, the warmongers, have had 22 years, and they have failed.

00:18:49.780 They have lied to us.

00:18:51.940 The results since 2003 in the Middle East, 7,000 dead Americans, as you write, 50,000 wounded, open borders, 100,000 Americans dying yearly from fentanyl poison.

00:19:02.000 Clearly, America has other priorities at this moment, and I agree with you.

00:19:07.020 Our theory is that President Trump will lose his mandate to close our borders, to negotiate better trade deals, to cut taxes and regulation, to rebuild our military strength, to make America healthy again.

00:19:21.560 All of these important aspects of Trumpism could be lost with a decision to enter this war with our military might.

00:19:31.080 Let me thank our guest today, Colonel Douglas McGregor.

00:19:33.960 You can find him again at OurCountryOurChoice.com.

00:19:38.080 That's OurCountryOurChoice.com.

00:19:40.360 Colonel McGregor, thank you so much for joining us today in The Stone Zone.

00:19:44.980 Hey, thank you, Roger.

00:19:45.960 Appreciate it.

00:19:46.780 God bless you.

00:19:47.420 Thanks for listening to The Stone Zone with Roger Stone.

00:19:51.760 You can hear The Stone Zone with Roger Stone weeknights at 8 on 77 WABC.

00:19:57.980 If you like the podcast, share it with your friends and listen anytime at WABCradio.com and download the WABC Radio app.

00:20:06.580 Hit that subscribe button on all major podcast platforms.

00:20:09.700 Plus, follow WABC on social on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X.

00:20:15.640 See you next time for a new episode so you never have to wonder.

00:20:19.640 What the heck is going on here?

Col. Douglas McGregor ｜ 06-16-25

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript