One of the most enduring murder mysteries of the 20th century is who killed President John Fitzgerald Kennedy and why. Dr. Paul Maurer, a noted neurosurgeon with an expertise in bullet-struck wounds, said that the wounds were consistent with being shot from both the front and the rear. Here to talk to the good doctor is my co-host and friend Troy Smith, the editor-in-chief of the Red Hot Slingshot News and the host of The Stone Zone with Roger Stone, is Dr. Troy Smith. Dr. Maurer was the Chief of Neurosurgery for the 101st Airborne 88th Evacuation Hospital in Saudi Arabia and is a Professor of Neurology at the University of Rochester. He was a resident in neurosurgery at the U.S. Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C. from 1986 to 1988, and was the attending Neurosurgeon at Walter Reed Army Center in D. C. from 1988 to 1992. He is a former Army Reserve Officer, and served as a post-doctoral researcher at the Johns Hopkins University Medical Center, and is the author of The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ, a book detailing the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the cover-up surrounding the events surrounding it. He s also a regular contributor to the New York Times bestselling book, The Assassination of JFK. and a frequent contributor to conservative media outlets such as The Daily Caller and The Weekly Standard. He's a friend of President Donald Trump, and a supporter of his presidential campaign, as well-known as a writer, adviser, and an outspokenly critical of his former presidential rival. Roger Stone. In this episode of the Stone Zone, Dr. Stone talks about the JFK assassination, and offers his perspective on the possibility that the assassination was a conspiracy, not a random act of random, unconnected to the events that took place in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963, on that day in 1963. What could possibly be going on behind the night of that day? and why it could have been so close to the truth behind the events of that fateful day in Dallas that we know so little about it? And why it matters so much? The answer may surprise you! so much so that you can t even begin to figure out who actually killed JFK or why it happened at least not who actually killed him? .
00:04:12.080But he is indeed, in this particular case, he's a specialist in wounds, particularly gunshot wounds.
00:04:19.800Here to talk to the good doctor is my co-host and friend, Troy Smith, the editor-in-chief of the Red Hot Slingshot.News.
00:04:32.060Troy, welcome back into the Stone Zone.
00:04:35.380Roger, as always, it's an honor to be here.
00:04:37.660And every time this topic comes up on this show, it's a show that I know is going to be, it's going to get a lot of viewers.
00:04:42.960And we're going to crack a lot of truth because there's a lot of people, Roger, as you know, who are scared to talk about the JFK assassination still to this day.
00:04:50.080Well, Dr. Maurer and I have a mutual friend who's a friend of President Trump.
00:04:55.100It was that man who turned me on to Dr. Maurer, who has a number of things to say.
00:05:02.360I haven't heard all of his conclusions, but he told me he read and respects my book.
00:05:09.060He has some fascinating things he's already told me, but he brings a different perspective, of course, because he's an esteemed neurosurgeon with an expertise in bullet shot wounds.
00:05:20.060As you know, recently, a documentary put forward by Paramount featuring interviews with the doctors at the hospital in Dallas, Parkland, where JFK had been taken, said that the wounds they saw were consistent with being shot from both the front and the rear.
00:05:44.480I think Dr. Maurer can tell us even more.
00:05:48.240Dr. Paul Maurer, welcome into the Stone Zone.
00:06:10.680You bring a very different perspective here.
00:06:13.400I've put forward a thesis as to the motives of everybody involved here.
00:06:19.360I reject Warren, obviously, as a false conclusion.
00:06:23.860There are many notable problems with all of their conclusions.
00:06:28.180Lee Harvey Oswald has no nitrate or powder burns on his arms or his chest after having supposedly fired a leaky World War II vintage carcano carbine.
00:06:43.400It's highly unlikely, but as reflected in the Dallas police report, yet they blame him with the shooting of JFK that day.
00:07:23.580I guess I would just put the small intro of my own in for those that are younger, like Troy, who was probably in his mother's ovary when I was in medical school or long after that.
00:07:36.180But for the people that are a little bit younger, people will often say, why is this such an important topic still?
00:07:43.540Because if this was just a lone soul, it's a random event, still an overthrow of a government.
00:07:50.500If it was done by a group or other individuals, as you detail in such depth in your book, that's really a coup d'etat.
00:07:58.900And so the implications of this, for me, are extraordinary.
00:08:02.960I think what we saw with COVID, no matter where a person is on that, also opens up the feature of this, that it's an opportune time to review the JFK event and the assassination.
00:08:16.640Because I think most people have a little different view about when people give us information, is it true?
00:08:24.960I think everybody's ready to take a little more open-minded look at this, no matter where you are on these topics.
00:08:30.600If you will, I'm going to walk through the shooting.
00:08:34.940My role here, my expertise, if you will, if you want to call it that, is obviously neurosurgery and terminal ballistic wounds of the brain and spine, as we discussed.
00:08:45.300And I lecture about this to lots of government, non-government organizations over the years, and it is an area I'm obviously very fascinated by.
00:08:53.780So I'm going to walk through the motorcade.
00:08:55.420I'm going to pick it up, not the strategic part of this assassination, meaning the milieu, the stew of, you know, different agencies and the mob and everybody else involved.
00:09:06.420That's so beautifully reviewed previously.
00:09:08.840My area will be to say, let's take a walk through the day this happened.
00:09:12.940Let's take a walk through 10 or 15 seconds and take a look at it from a ballistics neurosurgical perspective.
00:09:21.080I'm a, I've been in neurosurgery long enough.
00:09:24.020Most neurosurgeons are a little arrogant.
00:09:26.600You do this for 10 or 12,000 operations, you become more so.
00:09:30.880And so I will stand on what I say, recognizing I'm not trying to preach to any single entity, but to just take a placid, open look at this.
00:09:42.740And the first image is an aerial view looking down on the scene in the Dealey Plaza area in Dallas, the 22nd of November, 1963.
00:09:58.180As you can see in this image, the motorcade comes down Main Street, takes a right angle turn onto Houston, and then a very tight 120 degree turn to roll down heading into the highway.
00:10:12.880All of the things we're going to discuss start in that image as you follow the little white line right where that oblique angle takes place.
00:10:23.180We end up going less than 10 miles an hour.
00:10:26.560There is an enormous amount of information, a lot of it in Mr. Stone's book as well as others.
00:10:31.940Why would you pick an area where you go that slow under a host of urban buildings that offer vantage points to an open vehicle topic for a different day?
00:10:42.600But interesting, and there's a lot to speak of.
00:10:45.920As the limo runs around the oblique 120 degree turn and starts to roll down towards the highway, there is an overpass there.
00:10:56.800There is also the school book depository can be seen in the upper left of that image, and then there's a grassy area, the so-called grassy knoll.
00:11:07.280We're going to be frequently referring to a gentleman named Zapruder, different pronunciations of that name, so I hope I'm not doing damage to the family pronunciation.
00:11:17.840A gentleman named Zapruder, 58-year-old dress designer from Dallas, had a, at the time, state-of-the-art, 8-millimeter Zoomatic motion picture camera.
00:11:30.660It's virtually a movie, a film recording of a president being shot.
00:11:38.140It's essential that we mention this because his vantage point was on the grass as the limo came down that ramp that you can see and starts to pick up a little bit of speed, although for the whole event, never more than 10 to 11 miles an hour, rolling away from the school book depository.
00:11:56.660And it's being filmed from the grassy knoll by Abraham Zapruder.
00:12:00.100We could go to the next image, number two, please.
00:12:02.860That will be, just to get people, again, to set this stage for how did this go down.
00:12:10.880This is the limo coming off Main Street, turning left, or excuse me, turning right onto Houston, and it's not yet at that hairpin turn.
00:12:22.100The importance of this image, when we go over both John Kennedy's neck wound, Conley's wounds, and the eventual fatal brain injury, the thing I'm trying to point out in this, it's a little tough to see, but if you look, you can see Jackie Kennedy on the driver's side of the car on the left, President Kennedy's to her right.
00:12:43.440I want you to notice that Kennedy's are both higher than Governor Conley, who's sitting immediately in front of John Kennedy, Conley's wife sitting in front of Jackie, and of course, two Secret Service agents in the front.
00:12:57.200But you'll notice that Jackie and John are higher than the Conleys.
00:13:03.920The limo was designed so that the president would always be elevated over any other individual in the car, almost a Roman times sort of scenario.
00:13:13.860But that's why it looks, if they look higher, it's because they are.
00:13:18.580It sure is when you look at the trajectories of the bullet wounds.
00:13:21.400So I want people who are not so, you know, the younger person who's not so familiar with this historic event, where they sit is going to be important.
00:13:39.200Firing through glass, that includes front windshields, just for the record.
00:13:44.040Number one, slows a bullet down up to 400 feet per second, and it also refracts the bullet.
00:13:49.700So when you shoot at a target through glass, even if it's not bullet resistant and it's not bulletproof, it does refract the shot.
00:13:58.480And so it changes the angle of attack of the bullet, which can mitigate an actual hit.
00:14:03.860So it may have made a difference, but on a sunny day, it was common to leave that open.
00:14:08.460If we could go to the next image, three.
00:14:10.600Number three is a very famous, if you're in the world of surgery and terminal ballistics, wound ballistics, analyzing bullet wounds.
00:14:21.100And this is where physicians leave lawyers, leave physicists, because bullet wounds is the science of physics, a projectile traveling through space and impacting tissue.
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00:18:17.100So we're talking about the Kennedy assassination.
00:18:20.920In 2013, I published my book, a New York Times bestseller, The Man Who Killed Kennedy, The Case Against LBJ,
00:18:29.880in which I made the case that Lyndon Baines Johnson was essentially at the helm of a plot that included the Central Intelligence Agency,
00:18:38.140organized crime, Big Texas Oil, Secret Service, the banking interests, and perhaps others, all of whom had motive, means, and opportunity to kill John F. Kennedy.
00:18:51.680Dr. Paul Maurer, a noted neurosurgeon who has studied the Kennedy assassination in granular detail,
00:19:00.800but brings with him an expertise in gunshot wounds from his long and distinguished medical career,
00:19:08.200has joined us today, and we'll return to him and my co-host, Troy Smith.
00:19:12.880Now, Dr. Maurer, pardon me for that crass commercial interruption.
00:19:21.400We were looking at image three, which is a picture from a very famous, the most famous bullet wound expert historically, I would say,
00:19:30.680Martin Fackler, who actually was three doors down from me where his office was at Letterman Army Medical Center when I first finished my residency.
00:22:50.540I had an Iraqi lieutenant colonel during the Gulf War who was shot at very close range in the side of his head by his own soldiers with an AK-40.
00:23:02.420Push the plates of the skull fragments around.
00:24:24.680His head was chin down, left rolled, and slumped towards Jackie.
00:24:29.180And so the impact from front or behind is a little different.
00:24:33.580Now, if you go to the next image, so that's a mech fully intact, sitting on a post.
00:24:37.800And if we go to the next, not number five, but then, yeah, there we go, is a shot intentionally that I put right in the tangential side from in front.
00:25:07.380But after all the research I did on this over the years, years ago, I finally found a note when I was at the Texas School Book Depository, and they were kind enough to let me review a lot of the data there.
00:25:18.360And he had a tangential, Kemp Clark said, a tangential wound of the skull, meaning not straight through, but off at the side with the head turned and down and smack the side of that ball.
00:25:33.340In a human skull, that's called cratering or beveling.
00:25:36.000Actually, in a melon, it's a little different because it's not bony consistency.
00:25:41.680In a human, you have an outer hard skull, an inner, like an ice cream sandwich, an inner soft skull, and then an inner table of hard skull.
00:25:50.140And when the bone hits human skull, makes a hole the size of the bullet, expands in between those layers, and you get what's called beveling.
00:26:59.160The unbalanced the round, the quicker it flips and drops its energy and tears a bigger hole.
00:27:04.820The more balanced the bullet, the straighter they fly, and you get smaller exit wounds.
00:27:10.340If we go to the next image, we're going to talk now.
00:27:13.860We're going to take a walk through this Dealey Plaza shooting.
00:27:16.640This is a picture, this is slide number five.
00:27:22.440This is a picture from the Zapruder film.
00:27:25.180This is an eight millimeter Bell and Howell zoomatic state-of-the-art image.
00:27:30.980Redigitized, particularly in the late 70s for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, where they sort of redid the Warren Commission.
00:27:41.240After he'd been shot in the neck, his arms are already up at his neck.
00:27:45.140And this is a pretty reasonable picture from those days, expanded and digitized.
00:27:51.020Jackie Kennedy realizes he's been shot.
00:27:53.700He's starting to slump towards Jackie.
00:27:56.200Forgive the yellow dotted line, that's not me.
00:27:58.960It's just to show that his head is fully intact at this point.
00:28:03.000She has pivoted to the left side and almost in front.
00:28:06.140You'll see the head is chin down, rolled to the left, and he's slumped to the left.
00:28:10.600With regards to the neck wound, which is really one of the pivotal parts of this case, if you look at the Zapruder film, for those that are Troy's age, you don't know what typewriter ribbon is and you don't know what reel-to-reel film is.
00:28:28.220But in the day, in that day, with a strip of film that had frames, each frame of the Zapruder film accounts for 0.055 seconds.
00:28:44.020So the Zapruder film allows very exact timing to count the frames.
00:28:53.400Prior to that wound, where he's already starting to pivot down, he was on Dealey Plaza.
00:29:03.320Zapruder was filming the front of the car coming towards him.
00:29:06.720It would then go straight in front of him.
00:29:08.580He picked up the car before it got behind a freeway sign, the Stemmons freeway sign, one of those big, green, and white-lettered freeway signs.
00:29:19.460Frame 205, the 205th frame of his filming the president coming down Elm, coming down that ramp, ready to get on the highway.
00:29:30.020205, frame 205, Kennedy is waving with his right hand.
00:29:33.760The Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassination differed a little to the timing of the first hit.
00:29:43.460The Warren Commission said, well, the first shot missed.
00:31:26.860Everybody says, well, he was a poor shot.
00:31:28.480He actually came out at about an average shooter.
00:31:30.980But remember, an average shooter in the Marine Corps is usually vastly more trained than a lot of people in the military, and I'm saying that as a guy in the 101st Airborne Army.
00:32:04.880Anyone that shoots would start this engagement with one in the chamber, ready to go.
00:32:10.140So as this car, as the limo rolls down the ramp, it gets lost to the Zapruder film at about frame 205.
00:32:19.060Kennedy is waving his hand, seems to be normal.
00:32:22.520The Warren Commission said totally normal.
00:32:24.980In 19, late 1970s, the House, the Senate Committee on Assassination said, yeah, well, we think his hands suddenly stopped moving.
00:32:34.840The point is he disappears behind the freeway sign.
00:32:38.060So there is no, there's no image available for the exact moment of the neck hit.
00:32:42.940The picture you're seeing is after he's emerged from behind that freeway sign, because as soon as the limo emerges, heading towards Zapruder's camera, when it comes out from behind the sign, it framed 225.
00:32:59.14020 frames after it went black behind the sign, frame 225, he has his hands up to his neck, grasping the front of his throat with his arms up.
00:33:12.580Now, is that neuromuscular reaction, or was that, if I shoot you in the arm, you're probably going to grab your arm, right?
00:34:05.600There's a couple things that I'm curious about.
00:34:07.720There is, of course, the Associated Press photo of a Dallas police officer clearly holding a gun, which is very clearly a Mauser in his hands, outside the Texas School Book Depository building.
00:34:20.480As you know, I'm among those who believes that Malcolm Mack Wallace, who can clearly be connected to Lyndon Baines Johnson, is indeed the shooter.
00:34:30.320A shooter, one shooter from the Texas School Book Depository building.
00:34:35.760The significance of the bubble top is not whether it would slow or hinder a bullet or provide any protection.
00:34:42.880The key thing to remember is it had just stopped raiding.
00:34:46.020But it was Lyndon Baines Johnson who gave his aide, Bill Moyers, the order to tell the Secret Service to remove the bubble top.
00:34:56.280Because a clear shot at Kennedy's head from a sniper would be enhanced by the removal of the bubble top removed at the orders of LBJ.
00:35:07.700Your Zaprudder analysis is excellent, but it's key to remember that I showed, proved in my book, The Man Who Killed Kennedy, The Case Against LBJ, that the Zaprudder film, which was seized by the government from Abraham Zaprudder, sent to Rochester, New York for processing, came back minus certain frames.
00:35:34.340That's the version the government ultimately would allow to be made seen.
00:35:42.000The only journalist who saw that prior to Time Magazine, not the government, but Time Magazine buying the film to lock it away for 50 years so no one could say it, was Dan Rather.
00:35:56.840Rather, Rather says, strangely, yes, Kennedy, his head snapped swiftly forward as he was hit from behind, swiftly forward.
00:36:07.460When, in fact, now, over history and over time, we have seen the film, and Kennedy's head snaps back and to the left, back and to the left, more consistent with at least one wound from the front.
00:36:27.660Dr. Mauer, continue, until we have to go to commercial break, then we will jump in, and we'll return to you again.
00:36:36.100Thank you for joining us on The Stone Zone.
00:37:02.720I'm going to step back into the surgeon's box and say that my whole approach on this from my arena is who pulled that trigger isn't determined by how the bullets hit.
00:37:13.380It is to try to determine where they came from.
00:37:35.900Either way, the question, the real question to try to resolve from the ballistic surgical standpoint is, where did he get shot from?
00:37:43.800The whys of who shot him and why, that's a whole different strategic stew to be dissected, which you have done such a legendary job of.
00:37:53.120So I'll step back in the surgeon's box and say, when he took the shot in the neck and he emerges, frame 225, we can argue about the frames.
00:38:04.000And there's certainly been this, you know, as they say, you dance with the partner you brought.
00:38:08.980You don't dance with the partner you wish you had.
00:38:11.980This is like a, this whole murder is like a jigsaw puzzle given to you with a thousand pieces, but they only gave you 500.
00:38:20.760So as a surgeon and a ballistics person, I know I don't have the whole puzzle.
00:38:25.680Some of it's been taken by either incompetence, much of it taken away from you by intent.
00:38:31.980And so I have to dance with the partner I have.
00:38:35.720So the, he, the first definite hit, I mentioned for thoroughness, the Warren Commission said there was an initial shot that didn't hit anything.
00:39:31.500But I would say consistently from the autopsy people and the people in the room at the autopsy, and I'm going to say one other caveat here that's important, and this will sound like something only a neurosurgeon would say with hubris.
00:39:46.900Having taken care of a few thousand people in an emergency department, there was one statement, well, the hole in the front of Kennedy's neck was six millimeters, and if this had been a 6.5 or a 7.92, it's not possible because the hole was too small.
00:40:03.180No one's got a micrometer out in an emergency department.
00:40:06.140Your job is to save the life if you can.
00:40:08.620Having done this a lot, the forensic aspects in an emergency department are about a hundredth on the list of importance to the people there.
00:40:18.420The person looking at that wound converted it quickly to a tracheostomy wound, which was absolutely normal to do in that day.
00:40:26.140Nasal tracheal intubation that would be done now or oral tracheal intubation where you put the tube through the nose or the mouth was not as common.
00:40:32.900And so a trach is a great way to get air into somebody.
00:40:36.440The first duty of an emergency resuscitation is airway.
00:40:39.680So that hole was visualized by many people.
00:40:43.320Everybody in every book I can find says, yep, it was just a little small hole, looked like an entry wound.
00:40:49.480It's right in the middle of the fourth tracheal ring, just, you know, about here, below your Adam's apple, below your larynx.
00:40:57.600It's a totally sensible place to extend the incision, put a breathing tube down and get air into him.
00:41:04.600I might add, just parenthetically, because I'm compelled to, when you read lawyerly accounts, I'm not picking on lawyers out there at all.
00:41:12.660You know, it's one thing to sit in a room with a bunch of paper for 26 hours and decide what happened in seconds, both in the emergency department and on the scene.
00:41:23.000The skin is elastic, and so it does have elastic recoil.
00:41:28.900Having taken care of lots of gunshot wounds, the hole often is somewhat smaller than the caliber of the bullet because the skin expands from the kinetic energy as the bullet burrows through and snaps back.
00:41:41.040So, that hole, if it was six millimeters, and who knows, because I'm sure, I hope no one was measuring that and wasting that time in the emergency department, it still can see, it could be anything from a six millimeter to an eight or nine millimeter cartridge or something in that order.
00:41:57.680But that, in and of itself, is not evidence that you would hang your hat on.
00:42:23.220I normally don't like to go too much from a surgical ballistic standpoint on, oh, so-and-so thought they heard this or heard that or so-and-so said that.
00:42:34.460Everyone in law enforcement will tell you witness expertise is sometimes a little shaky, not intentionally.