In this episode, I sit down with my good friend and colleague, Rabbi Shimon Pevensie, to discuss anti-Semitism in America and why it's a problem. We talk about the role of law and order in America, immigration, immigration enforcement, and much more.
00:01:24.380It's always great to speak to someone who has that kind of breadth of knowledge.
00:01:27.880So I'm excited for it. And I know many of you are as regular listeners, so you don't need me to tell you that.
00:01:34.840Here's something that you might need me to tell you, although I think you know it already, but maybe you've never had it expressed, articulated in the way that I'm going to do it.
00:01:45.520It is just so clear to me that the core of our problems here in America, the core of our debate in America, really centers around one issue and one issue alone.
00:02:00.820And it's thought to be an ancillary issue.
00:03:58.080There's also a lot of people talking about anti-Semitism in this country
00:04:01.560And if you've listened to me on any of these programs or anywhere else or all the places I've written, you know that I don't believe that anti-Semitism has anything to do with Israel, religion, the Jews.
00:04:13.220Yes, the Jews are the target of anti-Semitism.0.99
00:04:15.320And by the way, the Jews can't get a break.0.80
00:04:17.480Even the term anti-Semitism is actually anti-Semitic.0.98
00:04:40.880They could have said anti-Judaism, but they didn't want to say that.0.98
00:04:43.320They wanted to make the point that, oh, you Jews don't belong here in Europe.0.81
00:04:46.460You belong back in Israel, that Semitic land where Jews and Arabs live.
00:04:50.920so literally the word the term anti-semitism is actually anti-semitic but whatever i just0.99
00:04:58.240for clarity's sake i use the term just like we should all just for clarity's sake i don't think
00:05:02.240people mean for it to be anti-semitic now but you get my point but it's not about any of the
00:05:07.400things i just said it's about law and order you know not just in the attacking of jewish people
00:05:15.460or firebombing them or even vandalism of buildings but harassment you know it's actually
00:05:21.680against the law in this country to go and shout in someone's face and it's also against the law
00:05:26.880to disturb the peace all these things all these laws should have been enforced in brooklyn the
00:05:31.240other night when these anti-israel anti-semitic animals march through a suburban you know it's
00:05:38.820yes it's part of the five boroughs but it's a suburban-like neighborhood of brooklyn i went to0.62
00:05:42.720high school there so don't don't push back on me in this i know i know the neighborhood really well
00:05:46.460don't don't don't don't push me on this did you know it's against the law to march in people's
00:05:52.520faces on residential streets and disturb the peace if you just enforce the existing laws in this
00:05:57.660country and we talk about this all the time with gun control we don't need special gun laws we
00:06:02.800don't need special laws about to push back on on hate crime laws we don't need those things0.70
00:06:07.840just enforce the regular law and have the will to do so i am you know oh jake you're a big0.52
00:06:16.920traditional jewish guy you're a big supporter of israel of course you want hate crime laws
00:06:21.140no i don't i think hate crime laws make things worse i want regular law and order enforced
00:06:28.260i want residential neighborhoods exempted from loud protests ever oh what about free speech no
00:06:35.560You get free speech. There's plenty of places and public spaces for you to give your to have your riot and to have your, well, you can never have a riot, but to have your rally and have your loud event at prescribed hours.
00:06:49.140And with the proper permits and everything else like that.
00:06:56.240And it's against the law to stop a student from going across campus to get to his class, whether he's a Jew, Christian, Muslim or from Jupiter.
00:07:07.740When UCLA finally brought the cops in to do that,
00:07:10.980that was the end of their encampment on campus.
00:07:13.800It just takes the will to enforce existing laws or existing norms.
00:07:19.280I thought going to university was all about reasoning and learning and discussion.
00:07:25.080Universities are never the proper place for shouting protests and yelling and screaming.
00:07:31.020If a university like, for example, Vanderbilt decides that that's never allowed here because we are a university where we exchange ideas peacefully and you're willing to enforce that rule, your problem will go away.
00:07:46.000And we can discuss the many reasons why so many other schools, including my horrific alma mater, Columbia University, my undergrad alma mater, doesn't enforce those rules.
00:07:54.500has a lot to do with the fact that the tenured faculty are also radicals
00:10:25.380They know that at the very base level, if you create society starting from the ground up, starting from cities and then moving to states and then moving to the nation, if you create a loose policy for law and order, a loose policy on punishing crime and enforcing the law, you will destroy this country.
00:10:43.080And not just because street crime will rise or maybe it won't.
00:10:46.180Maybe there'll be other crimes that rise.
00:10:47.820But just because if you create a nation where the law is not enforced and it's clear to everyone that the law is not enforced and not enforced equally, the nation will crumble.
00:12:49.620I'm talking about just equitable law and order.
00:12:52.280It doesn't have to have a mean face to it.
00:12:55.040But you want to live in a society where everybody knows if they catch you committing a crime of any kind, you will be punished, regardless of your skin color, regardless of your religion, regardless of whom you attacked.
00:13:10.240And right now in America, we really don't have that.
00:13:13.920Illegal aliens and sanctuary cities know that they're not going to be punished.
00:13:17.000in some parts of this country african americans know that especially if they attack0.95
00:13:23.020a white person they will not be punished as much as a white person attacking a black person you do
00:13:29.520that other way now and for many years we saw it the other way around in the south for generations0.91
00:13:35.280white people attacking black people knew they wouldn't be punished at least not for real
00:13:40.440and what did that lead to it led to more of those crimes and it also led because crime causes0.97
00:13:48.400poverty to abject poverty in the south that well went well beyond their natural resources and
00:13:55.120things like that that it just incredibly great created a back a backwoods region of the country
00:14:01.080for decades and we certainly live in a country now where if you're not on the right political side
00:14:08.680of your local leaders you can expect much more harassment and that's the way things work
00:14:17.300all right when i come back i'm going to play a soundbite from a president he wasn't president
00:14:23.400yet when he made these this speech who understood this and started the ball rolling for a golden age
00:14:28.940we had in america where crime was really really snuffed out almost completely he started the
00:14:35.180process i wonder if you can guess who i'm talking about i'm jake novak here in for roger stone in
00:14:39.700the stone zone stay with us the stone zone entertaining and informative on the red apple
00:14:49.720podcast network and i'm jake novak filling in for roger stone we're expecting roger to join us
00:14:55.780at the bottom of the hour again by phone as he did last night so that will be exciting
00:15:00.240But I've been talking about how law and order is at the core of our problems in this country.
00:15:05.960Disrespect for it, disregard for it, and a deliberate attack against it have led to so many of our other problems, so many of the other divisions in this country.
00:15:16.720If we would just enforce just, justifiable law and order in this country, I should say, it would solve a lot of our other problems.
00:15:27.120And yet, the people who don't want law and order very often pull out the argument that law and order is just code word for racism.0.98
00:15:35.740It's a way to lock up all the black people.0.99
00:15:39.300Which is sad because black people are 12 times more likely to be the victims of crime.0.98
00:15:45.880And someone who understood that as more than just a campaign slogan and started a process in this country towards almost eradicating major crime was Richard Nixon.
00:15:57.120Here he is giving his acceptance speech at the 1968 Republican National Convention, an election he would eventually win, discussing why law and order was so important.
00:16:08.320An active belligerent against the loan sharks and the numbers racketeers that robbed the urban poor in our cities.
00:16:14.920I pledge to you that the new attorney general will open a new front against the filth peddlers and the narcotics peddlers who are corrupting the lives of the children of this country.
00:16:27.120because my friends let this message come through clear from what i say tonight
00:16:35.080time is running out for the merchants of crime and corruption in american society
00:16:40.280the wave of crime is not going to be the wave of the future in the united states of america
00:16:46.900nixon's law and order focus in 1968 many people believe was the reason why he was able to win
00:16:54.860that squeaker of an election and of course academia and historians most of whom lean left
00:17:00.820again as i said before accused nixon of using law and order as some kind of code word for racism
00:17:07.900that's because they didn't understand nixon and they certainly didn't understand
00:17:12.160the nature of what he was talking about he talked about how crime hurts mostly as you heard in that
00:17:18.860soundbite hurts mostly the people who live in poverty in this country and hurts mostly the
00:17:25.880minorities in this country if you really want to be racist in this country defund the police
00:17:32.700it took 36 years but that got the ball rolling and by mid-1990s
00:17:38.760we had a major major eradication of crime in this country for the most part
00:17:43.780nixon got that ball rolling doesn't get enough credit for it we'll be right back with roger
00:17:47.980stone the stone zone entertaining and informative on the red apple podcast network and i'm jake
00:17:59.600novak filling in for roger stone this evening but roger stone is on the phone with us right now and
00:18:04.360roger i don't know if you had a chance to hear the last couple of segments where i just talked
00:18:08.560about how the core of this country and what makes it successful is when we have effective law and
00:18:16.020order and the man you're a great expert on richard nixon i played his soundbite from the 1968
00:18:21.680republican national convention where he made law and order a major hallmark of his campaign
00:18:27.480it was panned by the academic left and by the left-wing news media as some kind of pandering0.92
00:18:33.380to racism but of course as you know roger the biggest victims of crime in america are black
00:18:39.900people and other minorities and he understood that very well and he also i think would have
00:18:45.120understood what's going on now, Roger, is that our problems in this country, in my opinion,0.98
00:18:49.140can all be traced back to lax law and order. Today's big news, these hearings on Capitol
00:18:54.420Hill with these Soros prosecutors letting people out, not prosecuting illegal aliens.
00:18:59.180You got J.D. Vance in Maine detailing fraud after fraud after fraud, bankrupting this country.
00:19:05.360We have a congresswoman violating the Logan Act and Jayapal going over to Cuba or working with
00:19:11.280the cubans to try to undermine american policy it goes on and on and on law and order isn't racist
00:19:16.840roger and richard nixon understood that and he got the ball rolling it took 30 years but by the
00:19:22.340mid-90s the ball he started rolling had really created a great situation in this country with
00:19:27.500the less crime well jake as you know i'm calling in from washington dc i'm here to conduct a final
00:19:35.240interviews for my upcoming book on the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan. But
00:19:41.460what's striking is how different the city is today than it was when I lived here. First of all,
00:19:47.160it's much cleaner, but more importantly, it's much safer. That's because President Donald Trump
00:19:52.440has empowered the National Guard to clean up Washington, D.C. This is now, we have some of
00:19:59.500lowest crime rates in the city's history. Even the mayor of D.C., who, let's face it, is no friend
00:20:06.360of Donald Trump's, has prayed this effort. So what you say is absolutely true. But the most
00:20:12.380important thing I guess I want to talk about right here on The Stone Zone, I appreciate your sitting
00:20:17.220in for me, Jake, as I finish this book, is as I predicted last night, President Donald Trump has
00:20:24.100had some key agreements, key breakthroughs in his trip to China. The Chinese have now
00:20:30.860essentially agreed not to send any weapons to Iran and committed to helping us end the
00:20:36.940conflict with the President Xi Jinping actually reporting to say that he would give Trump
00:20:42.900whatever he needs to achieve a peaceful solution. Now, China, as you know, is Iran's largest
00:20:49.780oil customer purchasing about 90% of its exports, holding significant leverage, which the United
00:20:55.800States has now seized through the leadership of Donald Trump. So you've got economic and strategic
00:21:00.720outcomes of the Trump-Xi meetings. First of all, the Chinese have pledged to end the flow of deadly0.99
00:21:07.440fentanyl precursors in the United States. There's also a new shift in Chinese energy imports towards
00:21:14.000taking American oil and natural gas, reducing independence on the Strait Hormuz entirely,
00:21:20.800also increased Chinese purchases of agricultural goods, pork, beef, soybeans,
00:21:28.080and they've agreed to buy 200 Boeing military jets.
00:21:32.800Beyond that, you have mutual agreement that Iran cannot possess nuclear weapons
00:21:40.160So Trump has has accomplished an enormous amount in this brief trip, which you and I talked about only last night.
00:21:47.400Yeah. Now, with Ronald Reagan and when we had successful summits back with when Ronald Reagan was president, of course, he coined that term trust, but verify.
00:21:58.780What's what's your feeling about how we go forward, you know, to make sure that China lives up to some of these comments that they've made?
00:22:06.300And my thought is that, well, they'll probably cause problems elsewhere, and that's not the fault of President Trump or other factors.
00:22:14.760But what's your feeling on the solidness of their promises?
00:22:18.740I don't doubt President Trump's promises here, whatever he's promised to China.
00:22:22.960But on their end, what's the leverage?
00:22:33.360I was just talking to my grandson.1.00
00:22:34.640Well, I said, you know, I don't trust the Chinese who often do one thing and say something else.1.00
00:22:40.700But at the same time, between cutting off their their oil from Venezuela, where they were getting 90 percent of that output and cutting off their oil now from Iran, they have no access to cheap oil.0.92
00:22:54.580This very significantly reduces the threat, and Trump, as you know, a plane load of leading business men and women from this country, and they've agreed to open their markets to us.
00:23:09.420So we will be able to tell pretty easily whether they're living up to it.
00:23:13.420The one place I trust them the least and where I think they are doing the most damage to the country is in the drug trade.
00:23:20.760They cannot pretend that they are not the major importer of fentanyl and fentanyl precursors that go to Mexico and, let's face it, cross our southern border.
00:23:34.560And I think it's let's let's continue to talk about this, this fentanyl thing and the drug trade in China, because I think that there's a lot of Americans who still think about Miami Vice Times with the drug.
00:23:46.960Big drug kingpins, big money, financial reasons, things like that.
00:23:51.960But this is when it comes to China and what they're exporting.
00:23:56.020They're not looking for customers.0.80
00:23:59.060I mean, that's really what it is, isn't it?
00:24:01.760No, they've done enormous damage to the United States.
00:24:05.480The one place we don't seem to have any agreement is on Taiwan.
00:24:10.180They continue to say that it's not negotiable.
00:24:13.320On the other hand, I don't think they have the military strength today to move on Taiwan.
00:24:18.400But they also recognize that in Donald Trump, they don't have a patsy like Joe Biden.
00:24:24.340If the Chinese had moved on Taiwan while Joe Biden was president, he would have earned out, sent a strong letter of objection.
00:24:33.180Donald Trump would send ICBM missiles and they know it, which is why they will not move on our ally, Taiwan.
00:24:40.320And why I think they really need to think twice about the drug trade, because Trump will crack down on them if they don't keep their word in these these bilateral agreements.
00:24:51.200Roger, how much confidence do you have in some of these American tech companies, whether it's NVIDIA or in some cases an Apple and some of these other chip companies to keep the kinds of technology that has been developed here and is very sensitive and has national security implications?
00:25:10.660My thought is, you know, we got to let business continue to flow.
00:25:14.320We want business to succeed here in America, and China's an important customer.
00:25:18.780But I'm feeling like an owner of a big retail store where you know they always factor in, what is it, 3% or something, 4% for theft, for shoplifting, something like that.
00:25:40.740Look, I don't trust these companies at all. It's very nice to be back on X, formerly known as Twitter, where I'm Roger J. Stone Jr., Roger J. Stone Jr.
00:25:53.600But to this day, the meta company will not let me back on Facebook or Instagram. I continue to be censored on YouTube, for example.
00:26:03.400So, you know, things are not really better.
00:26:06.340Censorship in America continues to be a huge problem.
00:26:09.600And even when you're not censored, candidly, they shadow ban you.
00:26:13.720They use algorithms to limit your reach.
00:26:16.640I don't trust any of these companies.0.97
00:26:18.360When I see Tim Cook and these other guys at the White House kissing Trump's derriere, I don't trust those guys at all.0.61
00:26:28.120I know Google is manipulating both in their searches and in Gmail political messaging.0.97
00:26:35.860If you're a Democrat, you will get eight emails on Google, on Gmail, reminding you to vote.
00:26:42.680If you're a Republican, you won't get a single one.
00:26:45.920Or if you're unregistered, they will read your searches, see whether you lean left or whether you lean right.
00:26:54.300If you lean left, you'll get multiple reminders to register to vote.
00:26:58.940That's just one example of the way these big tech companies play games.
00:27:03.120Meanwhile, they're donating to the building of the White House ballroom.
00:27:07.780And while we appreciate their check, I trust them not at all.
00:27:12.400How did we get to this place with these large tech companies?
00:27:15.160One of the things I think Americans are really naive about is they think, well, it's now because of the technology that we're losing our privacy or these people in the bureaucracy and things like that are spying on us.
00:27:34.700I think it's the other way around, Roger.
00:27:36.020I think that the powers that be in the world since the time of the cavemen wanted to control the public, but they never had the tools with which to do it.0.75
00:27:43.960But with everyone in the world walking around with the smartphone that can listen to us and monitor us, let alone record what we type into it, suddenly the Chinese model of full surveillance, full censorship, full repression is possible, even in the so-called free world.0.76
00:28:01.660And I think that that's really incredibly enticing for statists, communists, leftists of all kinds.0.75
00:28:09.800How do we how do we push back on that without just throwing all of our phones away?
00:28:13.960Well, first of all, I think you have to look at the plus and the minus.
00:28:18.220Without the Internet and without social media, Donald Trump could never have been elected president.
00:28:24.980The rise of social media and the rise of the Internet broke the monopoly of big media, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC.
00:28:36.140And, Jake, as I often say, I don't get my news from CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet.
00:28:42.340So these companies didn't realize that when they essentially leveled the playing field and provided a platform for Donald Trump to counterpunch against the caricature of him that they tried to paint in the 2016 election, now they're trying to shove the toothpaste back in the tube.
00:29:04.820On the other hand, I just operate, having been through a bad experience, shall we say,
00:29:10.140I operate in the assumption that all my emails, all my text messages, all my phone calls are being monitored by someone.
00:29:18.920Before the 2024 election, the FBI contacted my personal attorney to tell me that my cell phone and my email had been compromised.0.92
00:29:30.400And when my lawyer said compromised by whom, they said, well, by the Iranians.
00:29:34.820Now, I'm not sure I believe that. I think that my email, my text messages, my phone calls may have been compromised, but how do I know it's not the FBI themselves? Remember, Joe Biden was president at the time.
00:29:49.040So you point out a very real danger. I think you have to operate on the assumption that anything you say, anything you write could appear tomorrow morning on the front page of The New York Times. So govern yourself accordingly.
00:30:04.780your scenario that you're talking about although this isn't what happened to you
00:30:09.000but it very much reminds me of 2018 and that whole jeff bezos incident if you remember
00:30:14.320the nude pictures of him which uh as anyone could tell you including the brother of lorena sanchez
00:30:21.000who was now married to jeff rezos was something that lorena herself put out there she was trying
00:30:25.260to get jeff's marriage ended and i guess he was on the fence but bezos had the gall and he got
00:30:30.580gavin de becker a security expert or at least a theoretical security expert to go to the u.n of
00:30:35.940all places not to mention other places and claim that he was hacked by the saudis and by the way
00:30:40.420every phone hacker i knew who i interviewed about that story told me this is not the way you hack a
00:30:45.580phone um you know the point being that you are can't expect privacy whether it's tech or not
00:30:54.140in the case or someone who wants to put someone close to you who might want to compromise you
00:30:58.500but the fact is it does make everything more heightened before the age of smartphones
00:31:04.900this would have been some pictures sent maybe uh in the mail or something like that and it would
00:31:09.800have been much less of a situation everything's on steroids and i i gotta say it certainly gives
00:31:16.320power to uh to these uh social media companies uh roger can you stay with us for a few minutes
00:31:20.680after this break to talk about i want to talk about nixon with you on one more time because
00:31:24.420you know i like talking about him with you absolutely i'll be i'll be right here all
00:31:28.540right fantastic we're gonna take a break i'll be back with roger stone i'm jake novak this is the
00:31:32.180stone zone the stone zone entertaining and informative on the red apple podcast network
00:31:42.720i'm jake novak and i have roger stone on the phone for a few more minutes before the end of
00:31:47.580the hour and roger um i played a soundbite of then candidate richard nixon running for president
00:31:53.740in 1968 at the Republican National Convention, his acceptance speech, where I think he surprised
00:31:59.100a lot of people by making law and order the cornerstone of his message that evening, and
00:32:04.240he carried it through the campaign, and it was very successful.
00:32:08.260But you are probably the best person to talk about this with.
00:32:13.040It wasn't a harsh law and order that Nixon imposed once he was elected.
00:32:17.760He was not looking to bring martial law into this country.
00:32:21.460for one thing he he knew that the drug program uh problem in this country couldn't just be solved
00:32:26.520by throwing everyone in jail he started that process of creating clinics for people to get
00:32:31.040off of heroin for example and that was very successful he also went to some of these protests
00:32:35.900some of them illegal uh and spoke very famously i think it was either the lincoln or the jefferson
00:32:40.840memorial in the middle of the night spoke to some of the anti-vietnam war protesters i mean
00:32:45.060it doesn't have to be harsh law and order is not about being harsh and hitting people over the head
00:32:50.500it's about protecting the greater public. I think Nixon understood that, and he wasn't given his due
00:32:55.560for that. Well, I think you had a unique circumstance in which Richard Nixon, who had
00:33:01.600lost the 1960 election by a whisker, I've written two books on it, I believe was stolen from him,
00:33:07.400then tried to run for governor of California, was defeated. But then you had a unique circumstance
00:33:12.120in which the assassination of John F. Kennedy, the assassination of Robert Kennedy, the assassination
00:33:18.640of dr martin luther king the vietnam war which was really dividing america and the fact that
00:33:25.060our cities had become unsafe uh and many of them were burning really parted the seas in a way in
00:33:31.780which richard nixon made what was until donald trump the greatest single comeback in american
00:33:37.940history now it is true that i have a tattoo of richard nixon a portrait of him on my back about
00:33:44.540the size of a grapefruit between my shoulder blades and in a way jake it's not a political
00:33:51.120statement what it is is a daily reminder that in life when things don't go your way when you're
00:33:58.660defeated when you get knocked down when you reach for something and you fall short that that's the
00:34:04.640time to get up off the canvas dust yourself off and get back in the fight see the story of nixon
00:34:10.220is a story of resilience it's a story of persistence it's a story of indestructibility
00:34:16.200and it's a purely american story that's why four american presidents were there at nixon's funeral
00:34:22.480to pray homage to him and why he made his greatest comeback at the end of his life as an advisor
00:34:28.960to president bill clinton telling him how to handle the chinese and the russians so uh i think
00:34:36.160you're absolutely right about the fact that he recognized earlier than most that that america had
00:34:41.860a crime crisis but as you point out he's also the president who desegregated the public schools
00:34:47.940he's also the president who appointed more african americans to federal office than lyndon
00:34:53.920johnson and john f kennedy combined he is also the president who quadrupled the financing for
00:35:00.440civil rights law enforcement he's also the president who tripled the spending on black
00:35:05.540colleges. So he's also the president who gave us affirmative action, which many of my conservative
00:35:11.660friends are not not very happy about, but still remains part of his overall civil rights record.
00:35:17.740So when they talk about the Southern strategy, what exactly are they talking about? The fact
00:35:22.860that he did more for civil rights than any president since Abraham Lincoln? Yeah, you know,
00:35:28.500it makes the point. It's one of the things that really bothers me, this continued belief in red1.00
00:35:34.440states you know red states and blue states you have to be a candidate like nixon and accept the
00:35:40.840fact that or go after the fact that there's no such thing you have to campaign you know he was
00:35:47.560he was mimicked in 19 he was mocked in 1960 for for visiting every fifth at one of the 50 states
00:35:52.920you know everyone oh that's a waste of your time no it's not not if you really believe you have
00:35:58.240a message for this entire country i would really like to see that uh happen again in this country
00:36:03.400somebody do that and in 1968 maybe he didn't visit all 50 states like he did in 1960 but he did
00:36:09.460make it clear that he wasn't giving up on any states and his election flipped that script in
00:36:15.580the south all of a sudden now there were both democrats there were democrats in the south then
00:36:20.780who had to run on something other than being pro-segregation you know i mean it changed things
00:36:26.360overnight and i think donald trump's done that too and that's why there's been so much resistance
00:36:30.940against him by some of these Republicans.