The StoneZONE with Roger Stone


The Stone Zone ｜ 09-25-25


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

Former FBI Director James Comey has been charged with perjury in relation to false statements he made to Congress regarding Russian collusion with the Trump campaign. James Comey's testimony before Congress on March 20th, 2017 was not only false, but also contained evidence of lying under oath.


Transcript

00:00:00.420 The Stone Zone, entertaining and informative on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
00:00:09.380 Welcome. You are entering the Stone Zone.
00:00:12.780 Well, former FBI Director James Comey is expected to be indicted in the Eastern District of Virginia under perjury charges for false statements he made to Congress.
00:00:23.480 That's expected in the next few days.
00:00:25.600 Five-year statute of limitations is set to expire on Tuesday, and Comey would need to be prosecuted before that date over the false statements he gave to Congress on multiple dates.
00:00:36.940 There's a great deal of background about this case.
00:00:39.860 The U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia was fired only days ago and replaced by Lindsay Halligan, a White House lawyer and an extraordinarily capable young attorney.
00:00:55.840 But we know that when she arrived at the U.S. attorney's office, that Eric Siebert, the sitting U.S. attorney in the Eastern District, had prepared a 51-page memo arguing against the prosecution of James Comey.
00:01:13.660 Now, what we didn't know, the news that we are breaking right here in the Stone Zone, is that Eric Siebert had a stunning conflict of interest.
00:01:25.620 You see, Eric Siebert's father-in-law, his wife's father, was the godfather for James Comey's daughter.
00:01:35.000 That conflict of interest means that Eric Siebert should have recused himself from the beginning, but refused to do so.
00:01:44.640 It is also interesting that they let this go as long as they could, stalling.
00:01:52.500 Let's listen to the actual audio of James Comey committing perjury before the U.S. Congress.
00:01:59.920 There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever.
00:02:03.260 The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle.
00:02:08.440 They did it with purpose.
00:02:09.740 They did it with sophistication.
00:02:11.340 They did it with overwhelming technical efforts.
00:02:15.100 And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government.
00:02:19.020 There is no fuzz on that.
00:02:20.620 It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community.
00:02:24.560 And the members of this committee have seen the intelligence.
00:02:28.460 It's not a close call.
00:02:29.920 That happened.
00:02:30.880 That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that, because this is about America, not about any particular party.
00:02:41.560 So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country.
00:02:45.640 Yes, sir.
00:02:46.340 In that time frame, there were more than the DNC and the DCCC that were targets.
00:02:52.280 Correct.
00:02:52.600 There was a massive effort to target government and non-governmental, near-governmental agencies like nonprofits.
00:02:59.600 What would be the estimate of how many entities out there the Russians specifically targeted in that time frame?
00:03:05.760 Yeah, that is all completely and totally false.
00:03:15.900 There's no evidence to support it whatsoever, including the false claim that the Democrat National Committee was a target of an online hack by Russian intelligence.
00:03:24.760 But that's just one example of James Comey lying under oath.
00:03:30.460 This issue is rather near and dear to me because, of course, I was charged with lying under oath to Congress regarding the Russian collusion hoax.
00:03:38.100 On the other hand, no misstatement that I made under oath in my voluntary testimony was material or hid any underlying crime.
00:03:47.840 In other words, there was no Russian collusion or WikiLeaks collaboration or hack of the DNC to cover up and lie about.
00:03:56.880 Let's listen to Mr. Comey lie one more time.
00:03:59.540 Do you stand by your House testimony on March 20th that there was no surveillance of the Trump campaign that you're aware of?
00:04:06.640 Correct.
00:04:06.960 You wouldn't know about it if they were.
00:04:08.800 Is that correct?
00:04:09.660 I think so.
00:04:10.340 Yes.
00:04:10.640 OK.
00:04:11.400 In the meantime, there is a new story in The New York Times that says that the efforts by the Trump administration to prosecute CIA director John Brennan,
00:04:22.340 who also lied to Congress regarding the Russian collusion hook, have been stalled because Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence,
00:04:32.260 fired 37 NSA deep state operatives.
00:04:36.960 This is a planted story that is another lie.
00:04:40.140 None of the 37 national security deep staters who were terminated by Tulsi Gabbard are necessary.
00:04:48.740 None of their testimony or documents from them is necessary to prosecute Mr. Brennan.
00:04:54.640 This is a naked attempt to buy some in the deep state to discredit Gabbard.
00:04:59.620 In fact, Tulsi Gabbard's office says in The New York Times story that they have turned over more than sufficient declassified documents to justify the prosecution of John Brennan.
00:05:13.900 John Brennan, you will recall, specifically lied about including the Steele dossier, which was a fabrication, a false report, a fugazi paid for by Hillary Clinton's campaign that claimed that Donald Trump,
00:05:30.260 while visiting Moscow as a private businessman had dallied with Russian prostitutes and had watched them urinate on a hotel room bed that was once occupied by President Barack Obama.
00:05:43.000 This is a complete and total falsehood.
00:05:45.680 Not only did Brennan include this in President Barack Obama's intelligence assessment, but he testified for Congress that it was included only in the footnotes,
00:05:56.780 when in fact it was included both in the footnotes and as the fourth major supporting point of the false conclusion that the Russians interfered with the election.
00:06:08.060 So you have two major efforts here afoot to discredit the prosecution of FBI Director James Comey and CIA Director John Brennan.
00:06:20.640 Just remember, the New York Times, all that's fit, pardon me, all the news that's fit to print, embellished with a liberal tint.
00:06:31.480 Now, President Donald Trump recently called out the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, for a lack of swift action going after the Russiagate conspirators.
00:06:39.280 Trump was, like me, incredulous as to why Comey, as well as Senator Adam Shifty Schiff,
00:06:45.840 as well as New York State Attorney General Letitia Low IQ James, have not been hit with any charges for their obvious litany of crimes.
00:06:55.440 It appears that President Trump's swift kick to the Attorney General's derriere has spurred her into action.
00:07:02.680 The patience of those in the MAGA allegiance is wearing thin.
00:07:07.240 It's time for the deep state to take the humiliating perp walks and endure the brutal court proceedings,
00:07:12.800 like President Trump did, like General Mike Flynn did, and like I did,
00:07:17.920 and so many other patriots were forced to endure during the Biden years.
00:07:21.880 It's time for them to pay the price for their illegal acts now when Trump has the power to do so.
00:07:28.200 We also, it remains to be seen now, after the question whether James Comey is prosecuted,
00:07:33.360 whether the new acting U.S. attorney in the Eastern District, Lindsey Halligan,
00:07:39.760 will proceed to prosecute New York Attorney General Letitia James.
00:07:45.020 Reuters and other fake news outlets have continued to argue that there's no evidence of mortgage fraud
00:07:51.680 in the case of Letitia James, but as we have demonstrated here in the Stone Zone multiple times,
00:07:57.720 that is completely false.
00:07:59.620 The same week that Letitia James was prosecuting Donald Trump for allegedly inflating the value
00:08:09.000 of his assets in order to secure real estate development loans, loans that were paid back
00:08:15.120 in full and on time, with the lenders making as much as $40 million in interest,
00:08:21.740 James was signing a power of attorney.
00:08:24.620 This was not a fill-in-the-blank document, but required her signature witnessed by people
00:08:29.960 in the New York Attorney General's office in multiple cases, in which she claimed that she
00:08:35.340 would own or occupy a property that she bought in Norfolk, Virginia.
00:08:41.100 That is mortgage fraud.
00:08:43.400 It also leads to the question of whether or not there are downstream crimes such as tax fraud,
00:08:50.760 insurance fraud, or wire fraud, very common in these kinds of cases.
00:08:56.860 Kind of ironic to hear Attorney General Letitia James in an interview with Joy Reid,
00:09:02.980 if Joy Reid's IQ was one point lower, you'd have to water her like a plant,
00:09:07.200 saying that mortgage fraud crimes are very, very, very rarely prosecuted.
00:09:13.780 Well, no one has ever been prosecuted under the law that Letitia James used and weaponized
00:09:19.740 to try to take down Donald Trump.
00:09:22.200 By the way, the New York State Appeals Court has overturned that decision, a $540 million
00:09:28.960 decision, I believe, and it is now the Attorney General who is appealing.
00:09:34.220 So it remains to be seen whether Lindsay Halligan, who is an enormously capable woman,
00:09:39.900 someone I know personally, will proceed to bring a proceeding for mortgage fraud and other
00:09:46.060 crimes against the New York Attorney General.
00:09:49.260 That is the open question.
00:09:52.060 Meanwhile, former National Guardsmen have been charged with a plot to supply al-Qaeda with
00:09:57.820 3D printed guns.
00:09:59.460 A former member of the Army National Guard has been charged with attempting to provide
00:10:03.780 material support to a terrorist group after he allegedly tried to ship 3D printed guns
00:10:10.000 to al-Qaeda affiliates.
00:10:12.300 25-year-old Andrew Scott Hastings was caught in a sting speaking to an FBI agent who believed
00:10:18.060 was, we now believe, was working for al-Qaeda.
00:10:21.440 Hastings once held a national security clearance.
00:10:24.520 Somehow, he became radicalized and allegedly started recruiting al-Qaeda members to conduct
00:10:29.940 weapons and praised Hamas' terrorist actions against Israel.
00:10:34.220 Meanwhile, although Google was forced to admit widespread political bias and opened the
00:10:41.760 doors for content creators who they unfairly banned from their YouTube platform, which they
00:10:46.820 own, it seems like they're back to their old tricks.
00:10:49.640 They have once again banned Infowars founder Alex Jones.
00:10:53.800 Alex Jones is now reaching literally millions of people after being unbanned and uncensored.
00:10:59.940 on X, but now YouTube has issued an announcement justifying their continued banning of Jones.
00:11:09.500 We've seen some of the previously terminated creators try to start new channels.
00:11:14.040 To clarify, our pilot program on terminations is not yet open.
00:11:18.220 It's still against our community guidelines for presumably terminated users to use, possess,
00:11:24.260 or create other channels, and will terminate new channels from previously terminated users
00:11:29.520 in accordance with these guidelines.
00:11:31.700 So, in other words, YouTube will continue to be selective in who they allow on their platform
00:11:36.660 and refuse to uphold the value of free speech.
00:11:40.740 This is why alternatives such as Rumble should be advocated.
00:11:44.260 We cannot trust big tech giants to do the right thing,
00:11:47.400 and we should be looking to invest in their efforts whenever possible.
00:11:51.840 I experienced this myself.
00:11:54.420 I had nearly 1 million followers on what was then Twitter.
00:11:58.280 I had 350,000 on what was then Facebook.
00:12:04.000 I had about 85,000 on Instagram.
00:12:07.860 And I had 15 years of video work invested in YouTube,
00:12:13.820 all of them disappearing in the blink of an eye.
00:12:18.700 Never so much as a notification as to why, although I know why.
00:12:22.940 It's because I was a supporter of Donald Trump
00:12:25.520 and because I was a persistent critic of the Russian collusion hoax,
00:12:29.940 which we have now definitively proved was exactly that.
00:12:34.440 The greatest single dirty trick in American political history
00:12:37.980 and an abuse of power in which they use the full authority of the U.S. government
00:12:42.520 and the incredible capabilities of our intelligence agencies
00:12:47.360 to try to undo the results of the 2016 election.
00:12:51.900 Now, finally, it appears that James Comey,
00:12:54.480 the particularly arrogant FBI director, will be held responsible.
00:12:58.700 Remains to be seen whether former CIA director John Brennan,
00:13:03.040 former National Security Advisor Susan Rice,
00:13:06.740 or the former director of National Intelligence General Clapper,
00:13:11.100 will follow Comey into the witness stand and the dock.
00:13:16.300 I'm Roger Stone.
00:13:17.160 You're listening to The Stone Zone, and we'll be right back.
00:13:20.820 If you're looking to create, grow, and sustain your wealth,
00:13:24.460 download and subscribe to the Payne Points of Wealth podcast
00:13:27.480 at BeBullish.com with Bob, Ryan, and Chris Payne.
00:13:31.660 It's your podcast for market insights, money tips, and real talk on the economy.
00:13:36.260 Download and subscribe at BeBullish.com.
00:13:40.120 The Stone Zone, entertaining and informative.
00:13:44.160 On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
00:13:47.220 You're back in The Stone Zone.
00:13:49.600 Joining me soon will be one of the country's foremost experts on gunshot and gunshot wounds.
00:13:56.100 Dr. Paul K. Maurer will join us.
00:13:59.240 He's been in The Stone Zone before, has more extensive medical experience in the area of gunshot wounds
00:14:06.020 than perhaps any doctor in the country.
00:14:08.180 We're going to be talking about the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk,
00:14:12.460 because I think the American people deserve the truth,
00:14:15.420 and I don't believe we have yet gotten the truth.
00:14:18.640 There's a lot of different theories.
00:14:20.060 We're going to talk about that coming up right here in The Stone Zone.
00:14:23.400 In the meantime, the Department of Justice has finally ordered an investigation
00:14:27.220 into the George Soros network as a wave of far-left terror sweeps across America.
00:14:33.960 The Trump administration is preparing to scour the dark money networks
00:14:37.260 affiliated under the open society foundations that are used to fund agitators
00:14:42.900 and spread propaganda, radicalizing liberals into going to war against the United States.
00:14:48.320 Let's be clear, we're not talking about speech here.
00:14:51.560 We're talking about those who engage in mayhem, violence,
00:14:55.680 causing damage to millions of dollars of property,
00:15:00.000 wounding and harming thousands of citizens, and actually killing people.
00:15:06.500 Meanwhile, in California, ICE agents under the Department of Homeland Security
00:15:12.080 will not comply with the state's new face mask ban.
00:15:16.940 And the DHS stated in an expose that they believe the ban is unconstitutional.
00:15:23.260 The Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary, Tricia McLaughlin, stated,
00:15:28.160 by enacting this policy, Governor Gavin Newsom is fanning the flames of division,
00:15:33.160 hatred, and the dehumanization of our law enforcement officials.
00:15:37.100 You see, it's very clear that Newsom wants to put ICE agents in danger
00:15:41.020 by forcing them to reveal their identities,
00:15:42.700 so they can then be doxed by left-wing activists,
00:15:46.680 and their families and homes can be targeted,
00:15:49.380 and they themselves can be attacked.
00:15:52.040 This is a way to prevent the crackdown on illegals,
00:15:55.100 which is run rampant in California due to the state's sanctuary policies.
00:16:00.160 California's law is essentially null and void
00:16:02.380 because the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution
00:16:05.920 takes precedence over state law.
00:16:08.380 There's very little they can do other than whine and stomp their feet
00:16:12.240 to prevent ICE from doing their jobs,
00:16:14.940 but Governor Newsom's face mask ban is really just public preening
00:16:19.280 for his upcoming presidential campaign.
00:16:22.720 This is all about 2028.
00:16:25.720 I still ask the same question they used to ask about Governor Mike Dukakis.
00:16:29.940 Will Gavin Newsom run for president on the slogan,
00:16:34.140 he'll do for America what he did for California?
00:16:37.620 If he does, that means unprecedented lawlessness, homelessness,
00:16:42.740 huge high taxes, a lack of jobs and economic opportunity,
00:16:48.140 and a homeless crisis unmatched across the country.
00:16:52.520 California, once the golden state, is a shambles,
00:16:55.980 thanks to the leadership of one Gavin Newsom,
00:16:59.080 who clearly has decided to try to act like Donald Trump.
00:17:02.840 All this guy has going for him is great hair.
00:17:05.400 If the Democrats nominate him,
00:17:07.640 he will be vanquished by the Republican nominee,
00:17:10.220 whoever that might be in 2028.
00:17:12.700 You're listening to The Stone Zone here on the Red Apple Audio Networks,
00:17:17.000 and when we return, Dr. Paul K. Maurer joins us.
00:17:20.620 He is probably the country's foremost expert on gunshot wounds.
00:17:25.840 He's going to talk to us about what he saw
00:17:27.760 in the brutal political assassination of Charlie Kerr.
00:17:31.280 Don't go away.
00:17:32.660 We'll be right back.
00:17:39.600 The Stone Zone.
00:17:41.600 Entertaining and informative.
00:17:43.740 On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
00:17:47.100 Welcome back into The Stone Zone.
00:17:50.460 Joining me now is Dr. Paul K. Maurer.
00:17:54.080 Paul Maurer is a graduate of the University of Rochester.
00:17:57.420 He got his medical degree at the University of Rochester.
00:18:01.380 He did his neurosurgeon residency
00:18:04.180 at the University of Rochester Medical Center.
00:18:07.600 He was an attending neurosurgeon for the United States Army
00:18:11.060 at the San Francisco, California Letterman Medical Center.
00:18:16.540 He was an attending neurosurgeon at Walter Reed Army Medical Center
00:18:20.580 from 1988 to 1992.
00:18:22.080 The chief of neurosurgery at the 86th Evacuation Hospital
00:18:27.740 during the Saudi, in the Gulf War in Saudi Arabia.
00:18:32.360 He's also assistant professor of neurology
00:18:34.540 at the University of Rochester from 1992 to 1998.
00:18:38.300 Professor of neurology at the University of Rochester
00:18:40.720 from 1998 to the present time.
00:18:43.020 He's also the attending neurosurgeon
00:18:45.100 at the UHS Medical Wilson Medical Center
00:18:48.780 and has been a board-certified member
00:18:51.200 of the American Board of Neurosurgery since 1988.
00:18:55.420 I go through all of those academic and military credentials
00:18:58.720 to say that he is one of the country's,
00:19:01.520 if not the country's, leading expert on gunshot wounds.
00:19:05.680 And he, like many, many Americans,
00:19:08.720 still is studying and looking at the horrific
00:19:12.740 and brutal political assassination
00:19:15.060 of my good friend, Charlie Kirk.
00:19:18.100 Dr. Maurer, welcome back into the Stone Zone.
00:19:21.940 It's an honor to be here, sir.
00:19:24.380 As you know, I have written a New York Times best-selling book
00:19:28.180 on the Kennedy assassination.
00:19:31.140 I've just finished a book on the attempted assassination
00:19:35.120 of President Ronald Reagan.
00:19:36.920 It'll be out by Christmas.
00:19:38.540 Both of them serious questions about the ballistics
00:19:43.040 and the circumstances surrounding those shootings.
00:19:47.140 In the case of JFK,
00:19:48.880 the government conducted investigation
00:19:53.040 by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover,
00:19:56.300 who took an entire seven days
00:19:58.600 to declare that there was a lone gunman,
00:20:01.860 Lee Harvey Oswald,
00:20:03.220 a disgruntled communist
00:20:04.960 who fired three shots,
00:20:07.620 hitting John F. Kennedy from the rear.
00:20:11.040 Nothing else to see here.
00:20:12.880 Handing it off to the Warring Commission.
00:20:15.120 Actually, it was 50 years yesterday.
00:20:19.920 Essentially asking them
00:20:21.460 and getting them to rubber stamp that conclusion.
00:20:23.940 We now know, of course, that that's not true
00:20:26.760 due to a number of studies,
00:20:29.920 but also a stunning new documentary on Paramount,
00:20:33.500 what the Parkland doctors saw,
00:20:36.160 had a number of the attending physicians
00:20:38.500 say that they saw in JFK
00:20:41.520 wounds consistent with his being shot
00:20:44.420 from the front and the back.
00:20:47.000 And the doctors at Parkland also noted
00:20:49.700 a massive grapefruit-sized blowout wound
00:20:53.620 in the back of JFK's head,
00:20:55.940 which would indicate that he'd been shot
00:20:57.720 from the front.
00:20:59.240 They also noted that the wound in his throat,
00:21:02.040 where a tracheotomy had been later performed,
00:21:06.180 was most likely an entry wound
00:21:08.140 rather than, as the Warring Commission
00:21:10.240 tries to tell us, an exit wound.
00:21:12.740 So if we, by the FBI's assessment so far,
00:21:18.120 that Charlie Kirk was shot from the front
00:21:20.540 with a 30-06 charge,
00:21:24.380 should there not have been an exit wound
00:21:27.100 and a blood splatter in such a wound?
00:21:29.600 A couple things.
00:21:32.300 We, I like to try to take all these
00:21:35.220 surgical dilemmas, trauma dilemmas,
00:21:37.740 bullet wounds, and everything else.
00:21:39.440 You know, as I mentioned, you know,
00:21:40.900 balls are balls, strikes are strikes.
00:21:42.780 And so I try to call them as they are
00:21:44.940 and assess them as scientifically as I can
00:21:47.620 based on, you know,
00:21:49.100 over 14,000 brain and spinal cord operations
00:21:52.740 have been through a lot of blood over the years.
00:21:55.240 So let's, if it's okay with you,
00:21:57.480 I would start it right with what we have to deal with,
00:22:01.720 recognizing, you know,
00:22:03.160 we don't have all the cards on the table,
00:22:05.440 which is always the problem
00:22:07.060 because voids of knowledge
00:22:09.380 will always be filled with speculation,
00:22:11.740 which frankly is imposed upon us,
00:22:14.820 not to sound too harsh on that statement,
00:22:17.960 but when you have a void,
00:22:19.740 people will fill the void.
00:22:21.000 So from a standpoint of terminal ballistics,
00:22:23.800 which as you mentioned,
00:22:24.700 I lecture a lot about to military
00:22:26.920 and law enforcement,
00:22:28.660 literally all over the world,
00:22:30.840 in which I don't know the word expert applies,
00:22:33.380 but certainly I spend a lot of time
00:22:34.960 dealing with that as well as my surgical experience.
00:22:38.720 There are some interests,
00:22:40.300 very interesting aspects of this case.
00:22:43.220 And so to walk through them just a moment,
00:22:47.060 it's very important as I,
00:22:48.860 why is a waded through over these last two weeks
00:22:52.520 or whatever it is now of speculation,
00:22:55.660 some of which is very sound,
00:22:57.460 some of which would strike me as maybe,
00:22:59.660 in my opinion, a little less sound.
00:23:01.880 Let's see what we have.
00:23:03.880 If there's four camera angles to visualize this,
00:23:07.060 and obviously our video data is our best,
00:23:10.360 it's the best data we have at this point,
00:23:12.340 recognizing is effective as it is in high quality,
00:23:16.400 some of the shots are, it still leaves some room.
00:23:19.820 But first, let's start with the very first couple frames of that.
00:23:23.720 And I walked through this frame by frame by frame
00:23:26.340 as much as possible multiple times.
00:23:30.020 And as he has the microphone in his hand,
00:23:33.000 he answers that final question,
00:23:35.440 leans back, and you hear the snap,
00:23:38.200 the signature of,
00:23:39.580 it's almost certainly a rifle sound.
00:23:41.440 You always have to be careful about saying that,
00:23:43.520 but it's certainly an unsuppressed, non-silenced weapon,
00:23:46.800 because it's a different sound characteristic.
00:23:48.860 It sounds like a rifle crack of an unsuppressed weapon.
00:23:53.820 And almost immediately,
00:23:55.160 now I would keep in mind,
00:23:56.660 and this is going to be important
00:23:57.800 when we walk through this neck wound for the ballistics,
00:24:00.180 we're just going to walk through this neck wound
00:24:02.000 a bit at a time.
00:24:03.960 And the round that I practice most with
00:24:08.140 for precision rifle closes 700 yards in 1.03 seconds.
00:24:13.860 So the sound from the snap of that rifle to impact
00:24:16.860 is a distance of variably reported
00:24:19.520 between 146 and 200 yards.
00:24:22.120 Now, yes, we can't assume that's where he was shot from.
00:24:26.380 So I'm not saying, that's not etched in stone.
00:24:29.040 I'm just saying the theory right now,
00:24:30.920 he was shot from a slightly upper depth down angle,
00:24:35.240 from a decline angle,
00:24:37.280 maybe 15, 20 degrees or so,
00:24:40.160 someplace 200 or less.
00:24:42.580 That bullet's going to close that distance
00:24:44.520 in a fraction of a second.
00:24:47.500 The fact that it's potentially a .30-06,
00:24:50.580 again, we don't want,
00:24:51.760 because if we're really going to do an analysis of this
00:24:53.940 in a clean fashion,
00:24:55.380 we can't even etch that in stone.
00:24:57.020 But let's, for the sake of discussion,
00:24:58.400 say it was a Mauser Model 98,
00:25:00.340 somewhat shortened barrel,
00:25:01.700 apparently maybe 20, 22 inches or so
00:25:04.040 from what they're divulging so far.
00:25:06.780 Bolt-action weapon with a scope, of course.
00:25:09.800 That's, you know, that's a doable shot,
00:25:12.020 as I think most people agree.
00:25:13.720 It's, you know, you couldn't just pick that up
00:25:15.260 having no experience,
00:25:16.500 but some moderated experience,
00:25:18.240 that's a doable shot.
00:25:19.920 I would start by saying,
00:25:21.480 because I lecture so much to the military
00:25:23.860 and the law enforcement people,
00:25:25.120 I've spent a lot of time over the last two weeks,
00:25:27.540 me calling people, them calling me.
00:25:29.300 The first thing I'd say is,
00:25:31.600 is I'm sure obviously you know better than anybody,
00:25:33.840 he wasn't aiming for his carotid artery in the neck.
00:25:36.280 That was either a head shot that went low
00:25:38.060 or a chest shot that went high.
00:25:39.860 I have never heard in training or ever
00:25:42.540 that anyone aimed for the neck.
00:25:44.640 That doesn't make it a bad shot.
00:25:46.280 It was highly effective.
00:25:48.100 I'm just saying that, you know,
00:25:49.380 that was either a low head shot or a high chest shot.
00:25:52.460 But it ended up in about the worst place
00:25:55.420 you could possibly get hit in your neck.
00:25:57.240 You see him lean back
00:25:59.460 after he brings the mic away from his comment.
00:26:02.500 And you hear the signature of the rifle sound.
00:26:04.760 You see an immediate little splash of blood,
00:26:08.420 maybe centimeter and a half,
00:26:10.300 two centimeters maximum,
00:26:11.560 less than an inch.
00:26:12.240 You see a little absolutely circular splash of blood followed.
00:26:17.400 Now this, I haven't seen anybody mention this,
00:26:19.400 which is interesting to me,
00:26:20.580 but if you go back and look at the video frame by frame,
00:26:23.800 the most common video, pretty macabre, I agree,
00:26:27.300 but the one mostly from in front,
00:26:29.500 you see something very interesting,
00:26:31.180 which has not been mentioned by anybody that's seen.
00:26:34.380 Walking through what happens when a bullet hits you,
00:26:36.600 and this is essential to analyzing exit, entry,
00:26:40.360 should it have left his neck,
00:26:41.920 should it have stayed in his neck?
00:26:43.340 These are all answerable questions.
00:26:46.020 If you, when you get hit with a bullet,
00:26:47.840 so you pull that trigger on the 30-odd sticks,
00:26:50.060 that bullet impacts the front of the neck
00:26:52.740 in what's called the sternocleidomastoid,
00:26:55.640 not trying to confuse anybody with a lot of words.
00:26:58.240 It's the muscle that runs down the front of your neck.
00:27:01.000 When you look in the mirror,
00:27:02.260 you'll see a muscle that goes from your top of your breastbone
00:27:05.460 and heads behind the ear.
00:27:07.460 That's the sternocleidomastoid muscle.
00:27:10.040 We spend a lot of time there in neurosurgery,
00:27:12.300 because when we fix broken necks or we fuse your neck,
00:27:16.060 we literally make an incision exactly where he got shot.
00:27:19.680 And you put your finger in after you dissect the platysma muscle,
00:27:22.780 and in five minutes, your finger's on the front of the spine,
00:27:25.460 which is in the center of your neck.
00:27:27.020 So that's well-traveled territory surgically.
00:27:29.760 That bullet, like a surgical incision,
00:27:32.020 hit right at the left sternocleidomastoid,
00:27:35.240 inferior one-third.
00:27:36.480 The carotid artery is five centimeters, two inches,
00:27:39.820 depends on the size of your neck.
00:27:41.100 He's got a pretty big, beefy neck.
00:27:43.060 But that bullet went straight through,
00:27:45.000 and as soon as you see that splash,
00:27:47.360 just a circular drop of blood where the wound is,
00:27:52.080 the next couple frames you see blood gushing out.
00:27:54.700 And to anybody who's a neurosurgeon or a vascular surgeon,
00:27:57.700 as soon as my wife told me he got shot,
00:28:00.100 and I looked at that,
00:28:00.800 well, there's his left carotid artery.
00:28:02.520 I mean, that was the entire left carotid artery
00:28:04.460 pumping out that wound.
00:28:06.380 Now, what happens when a bullet hits you?
00:28:08.700 If I take, this is an important concept for people to understand
00:28:12.000 for where we're going to go with this,
00:28:13.980 because there's a lot of myth out there,
00:28:15.920 even by, you know, people that hunt a lot and all that,
00:28:18.740 I get that.
00:28:19.360 But it is a scientific discipline after all.
00:28:22.680 If I take a screwdriver with a half-inch flathead,
00:28:26.140 and the screwdriver shaft is 12 inches long,
00:28:28.700 and I plunge that in your neck exactly where he got shot,
00:28:32.300 you're going to get a hole as deep as I plunge the screwdriver,
00:28:37.200 half an inch wide.
00:28:38.520 That's called a permanent wound tract.
00:28:41.740 In other words, what's in that plunge of the screwdriver
00:28:44.980 is half-inch wide, layer of tissue is 12 inches.
00:28:49.500 If I bury the handle in your neck, that tissue's gone.
00:28:52.840 It's history.
00:28:53.760 It's toast.
00:28:54.760 Forget it.
00:28:56.020 How much damage occurs depends on what it is.
00:28:58.380 As fate would have it, when Kennedy got shot in the neck,
00:29:01.880 I do think from in front, about the fourth tracheal ring,
00:29:05.980 a miracle of anatomy for him.
00:29:08.380 It didn't really, it didn't hit his vertebral,
00:29:10.560 it didn't hit his carotid.
00:29:12.080 You know, it's a little unusual to get shot in the neck
00:29:14.880 and not catch some really big stuff, but he didn't.
00:29:17.760 Unfortunately for Charlie Kirk, the opposite of the case.
00:29:20.760 This thing within two inches was through his carotid artery,
00:29:24.500 or if he got shot from another angle,
00:29:26.200 within 10 inches, 11 inches maximally for a neck,
00:29:30.000 even a big neck, that carotid was gone.
00:29:33.000 Now, there's a difference between a screwdriver, though,
00:29:35.720 or an arrow, or a knife, and a bullet.
00:29:38.720 Because for those of you out in the audience
00:29:40.660 that are not shooting, you know,
00:29:42.700 aren't down the rabbit hole of shooting,
00:29:45.140 kinetic energy depends on the mass of the bullet,
00:29:48.580 in this case probably 150 grain,
00:29:51.200 up to 180 grains most likely.
00:29:53.140 The kinetic energy, the amount of energy in that bullet,
00:29:56.680 when that bullet smacks the front of your neck,
00:29:59.380 not only does it make a hole all the way through your neck,
00:30:03.100 the size of the bullet,
00:30:04.100 in this case, about a third of an inch.
00:30:06.380 You're going to get tissue a third of an inch diameter,
00:30:09.780 gone.
00:30:10.700 The bullet destroyed it like a freight train going through.
00:30:13.040 But there's more.
00:30:14.080 And you can see this very clearly on the video.
00:30:16.260 When the bullet hits tissue,
00:30:19.300 it dumps its energy.
00:30:21.400 And that energy dumps and stretches the tissue.
00:30:25.140 Because human tissue is almost like gelatin,
00:30:28.020 which is why we use gelatin mold to study it.
00:30:31.380 Bones, bone, got it.
00:30:32.680 But most of the rest of the tissue is,
00:30:35.280 to some degree, gelatin-like in consistency.
00:30:38.360 And as the bullet plows through the tissue,
00:30:41.100 dependent on the amount of energy in the bullet,
00:30:44.180 the tissue stretches.
00:30:46.880 So that one-third-inch cavity,
00:30:50.480 the bullet went through the diameter of the bullet.
00:30:53.680 Now you get three to four times the amount of tissue,
00:30:58.220 a third of an inch.
00:30:59.060 Now you're one or two inches of tissue
00:31:00.680 that gets ripped apart
00:31:02.420 as the energy splashes into the tissue around it.
00:31:05.980 If you look at the frames,
00:31:07.820 immediately after you see the red splash
00:31:10.360 on the front of his neck,
00:31:12.160 go through it frame by frame.
00:31:13.860 Look at the frames right before he shot.
00:31:16.380 His neck, his whole neck expands 20%.
00:31:20.460 The whole bottom of his face expands
00:31:23.680 all the way up to his jaw.
00:31:25.600 You can see on both sides,
00:31:27.560 the tissue just puffs like a blowfish almost.
00:31:31.300 Not to be macabre.
00:31:32.840 But at first you think,
00:31:33.980 well, that's kind of a photographic aberration.
00:31:36.320 It isn't.
00:31:37.480 That's the kinetic energy of that bullet
00:31:39.640 dumping into the soft tissue of his neck
00:31:42.580 as it goes through.
00:31:44.160 Because a .30-06 round,
00:31:46.240 people get hung up on the caliber a lot.
00:31:48.720 It's a fascination that has some true value,
00:31:53.100 but I would only say identifying entry and exit wounds
00:31:56.940 is much more challenging
00:31:58.340 than the usual thought that's applied to it.
00:32:01.500 There's a lot more.
00:32:02.880 Dr. Mauer, we're going to take a quick commercial break
00:32:05.300 and we'll be back with your expert analysis.
00:32:07.700 This is fascinating.
00:32:08.940 Folks, don't go away.
00:32:09.760 Don't touch that dial.
00:32:11.060 We'll be right back with Dr. Paul Mauer,
00:32:13.300 one of the world's foremost experts on gunshot wounds
00:32:16.420 and one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the nation.
00:32:20.340 Don't go away.
00:32:21.100 I am so grateful to those kind words
00:32:32.640 from Vice President J.D. Vance.
00:32:37.020 To continue our conversation,
00:32:38.860 we're talking to Dr. Paul Mauer,
00:32:41.500 one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the country
00:32:44.720 and an expert on bullet wounds and gunshot wounds.
00:32:50.440 And he is giving us his expert analysis
00:32:52.740 of what he has seen in the various videotapes
00:32:57.000 of the brutal assassination of my good friend, Charlie Kirk.
00:33:00.800 Dr. Mauer, the floor is yours.
00:33:03.000 Thank you, sir.
00:33:04.060 As I was saying, the power behind the .30-06
00:33:08.400 is, you know, more than a .762 .308.
00:33:13.000 It's below some of the long, long-range military sniper rifles,
00:33:16.520 but it's used as a hunting rifle for medium to large gain,
00:33:20.020 specifically because it has a very long shell casing
00:33:24.120 with a lot of propellant,
00:33:25.700 and it puts the bullet out there at 2,900, 2,800,
00:33:29.440 3,000 feet per second.
00:33:31.120 You can use pretty heavy bullets.
00:33:32.820 But the performance of the bullet in tissue,
00:33:35.680 where it stretches and destroys that tissue,
00:33:38.720 and how far does it go before it stalls?
00:33:42.140 In other words, does it get out your neck?
00:33:44.940 Does it get to the other side of your chest?
00:33:47.420 Hunting rounds are specifically designed to go deep.
00:33:51.680 Hunters want deep penetration
00:33:53.400 because they're shooting quadrupeds.
00:33:55.700 Another topic never brought up.
00:33:57.880 Hunters shoot quadrupeds.
00:33:59.380 Those are four-legged animals.
00:34:00.940 Eighty percent of gunshot wounds to animals,
00:34:03.340 deer, elk, are in the side of the chest
00:34:05.960 or the side of the abdomen, side of the head
00:34:07.880 because you're shooting at the biggest surface area.
00:34:10.260 Humans, only 12% of shots are in the side,
00:34:13.200 just statistically because it's not as available
00:34:15.220 and it's harder to hit.
00:34:16.820 So the 30-odd-six bullets,
00:34:19.140 there are very few tactical bullets.
00:34:21.740 The military actually doesn't want that much penetration.
00:34:24.460 They want 18 inches, 16 inches,
00:34:27.120 but in 16 inches, you're out the back of the body,
00:34:30.080 in which case that stretch cavity's gone
00:34:32.040 because all the energy and the bullets
00:34:33.740 flying out the back.
00:34:34.700 So the tactical bullets are designed differently
00:34:38.260 because they want that stretch cavity early on.
00:34:41.480 30-odd-six is usually designed
00:34:43.560 so you get it a little bit later
00:34:45.220 because they want, those hunters want those 30-odd-six rounds
00:34:48.100 going 30 inches, 24 inches deep.
00:34:51.140 Well, the neck's only about, what, 10 to 11 inches,
00:34:53.920 even in a pretty big neck.
00:34:55.420 Not even that, most necks.
00:34:58.020 So statistically, statistically,
00:35:01.700 you would expect this bullet to go out the other side
00:35:05.400 in a neck.
00:35:06.040 It would be unusual, not rare,
00:35:09.280 but, you know, you can't put a number
00:35:11.340 because you don't have,
00:35:12.140 there are no statistics to prove it,
00:35:13.940 but I would say if you look at gelatin shots
00:35:15.820 with 30-odd-six,
00:35:17.320 90% of the time, that bullet would be sailing
00:35:20.160 right out the back of his neck.
00:35:21.880 Now, the bullet was aimed slightly down,
00:35:24.780 so we have to remember that.
00:35:26.040 Whether it was from behind,
00:35:28.120 I mean, almost any of the relevant shooting positions
00:35:31.380 would be flat to somewhat down.
00:35:34.860 So since it hit the lower third
00:35:36.620 of the sternocleidomastoid muscle,
00:35:38.460 low third of the neck,
00:35:39.820 did that bullet then dive into the upper chest?
00:35:43.800 It still would normally exit.
00:35:45.880 That's a bullet that has a penetration
00:35:47.600 of, you know, 14, 16 inches minimally,
00:35:51.580 and usually, but that round,
00:35:53.140 I'm giving a benefit of the doubt here.
00:35:54.520 Most of those 30-odd-six rounds
00:35:56.500 have very deep penetration.
00:35:58.580 The heavier one's 30 inches.
00:36:00.800 So is it possible to not exit?
00:36:03.940 Yes, because all things are possible.
00:36:06.260 Could that bullet,
00:36:07.220 one thing you can see,
00:36:08.520 now we don't know,
00:36:09.280 if you are sitting where Charlie Kirk was,
00:36:11.580 and this shot came from, say,
00:36:13.120 the 10 o'clock position on his view,
00:36:15.480 about 30 degrees-ish off his left side,
00:36:18.840 away from his nose to the left,
00:36:20.580 could that bullet have cleared the carotid,
00:36:23.360 tore that in half,
00:36:24.600 struck his upper thoracic spine,
00:36:27.000 which is what it would have hit,
00:36:28.400 and then ricocheted down the chest wall?
00:36:31.460 That's possible.
00:36:32.640 You do see that.
00:36:33.620 You do see that.
00:36:34.660 It's possible.
00:36:35.780 I would only say,
00:36:36.640 that bullet was fired from a pretty short distance.
00:36:39.200 That thing was still cooking,
00:36:40.580 probably at least 2,500 feet per second
00:36:44.280 when it hit him,
00:36:45.040 because it's pretty near shot,
00:36:46.560 as those bullets go.
00:36:48.260 So is it impossible that it didn't exit?
00:36:50.600 It's not impossible.
00:36:52.480 But if it hit the,
00:36:53.920 it would have had to hit
00:36:55.000 either a proximal big rib,
00:36:57.020 second or third rib,
00:36:58.580 to ricochet down,
00:36:59.620 or the vertebrae.
00:37:01.100 If it hits an object like bone,
00:37:02.740 they can fragment,
00:37:03.700 and then the fragments don't have the oomph,
00:37:05.760 the momentum to go all the way out the skin.
00:37:08.480 So you do sometimes,
00:37:09.540 Jack Ruby, in fact,
00:37:10.460 the bullet that killed him
00:37:11.420 was guttered under the skin,
00:37:13.080 because it's hard to get through skin.
00:37:14.760 Skin's like a big tent wrapping your body.
00:37:18.280 Unfortunately, Dr. Moore,
00:37:19.380 I have to stop you there,
00:37:20.380 because we've run out of time.
00:37:21.600 I want to get you back for the full hour,
00:37:23.440 because this is fascinating,
00:37:25.280 and we need to get to your conclusions.
00:37:27.460 But we're very honored to have you today
00:37:29.140 in the Stone Zone,
00:37:30.400 and thanks for our listeners.
00:37:32.740 Until tomorrow,
00:37:33.880 God bless you,
00:37:34.740 and Godspeed.
00:37:36.400 Thanks for listening to the Stone Zone
00:37:38.660 with Roger Stone.
00:37:40.140 You can hear the Stone Zone
00:37:41.700 with Roger Stone
00:37:42.740 weeknights at 8 on 76,
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00:38:06.340 so you never have to wonder.
00:38:07.940 What the heck is going on here?